JACK OSBOURNE: AI Means Ozzy’s Legacy Can Last Forever

Jack Osbourne was one of the world’s first reality stars. As the son of rock legends, Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne, he grew up in the spotlight. Then, when his family let MTV into their home for The Osbournes, eight million people got a front row seat to his teenage years. But growing up in the spotlight wasn’t always easy. In this conversation, Jack reflects on being dragged into bars at 16, struggling with addiction and the moment he began turning his life around. Now a dad of five, Jack reflects on how far he’s come, the recent heartbreak of losing his dad, Ozzy and he shares why he wants to keep Ozzy’s legacy alive with AI. In this conversation Jack shares: What life was really like at the height of The Osbournes The best thing about his dad, OzzyHow fame and alcohol helped him rebel as a teenagerWhy living with MS doesn’t scare himHow he hopes to keep Ozzy’s legacy alive with AI Jack is a reminder that who you were when you were younger doesn’t have to define who you become. Jack Osbourne is Great Company. If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/greatcompanypodcast/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@greatcompanypodcast Jamie - https://www.instagram.com/jamielaing And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Erin Uckuzular Senior Producer: Helen Burke Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett & Lizzie McCarthy Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Production Manager: Archan Mohile Great Company is an original podcast from JamPot. Shot on Sony Cinema Line cameras FX6, FX2 with Sony G-Master lenses 16-35GM, 24-70GM Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I heard that you're creating an AI version.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  I think people thought that, you know, next thing you know, it's gonna be Ozzy Osbourne selling cell phones.

• 0:07Speaker 00

  I know you got backlash.

• 0:08Speaker 01

  But the backlash, it was my own fault. I, uh, obviously deeply heartbroken that he's gone, but also he went the way he wanted to. It's like having your left hand and your right hand. And then all of a sudden you wake up and you're missing this, you know? People just like throwing drinks at me. I was like sixteen and I was getting literally physically pulled off the street into bars. I was so high, I didn't make it to the film, the pilot, I just didn't show up.

• 0:34Speaker 00

  How much did they pay you to begin with?

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• 2:43Speaker 00

  Guys, welcome to our LA studio, currently in LA recording for Great Company, and we're just about to record with our guest, Jack Osbourne, son of Ozzy and Sharon Osbourne. Now, Jack has had the most insane life, okay? Being famous at fifteen years old on a show, The Osbournes, that got eight million viewers on MTV. He suffered with addiction, he has MS, he's a father of five, and most recently he lost his legendary dad, Ozzy. If you haven't already, before we start the show, if you can click that subscribe button, join the amazing community and we'll keep making the show better for you guys every single week. All right, here we go. Enjoy this wild episode of Great Company with Jack Osbourne.

• 3:22Speaker 00

  What age were you when you started your reality show with your family?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  So we started about a month before I turned sixteen.

• 3:29Speaker 00

  Do you remember that moment when your family said like, right, we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this show?

• 3:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I flip flopped. It was like, yeah, and I was like, oh no, wait, I don't know. It was like this, uh, there was a bit of apprehension about it. And ultimately, the deciding factor for me was because I was about to turn sixteen and you can drive in the States at sixteen.

• 3:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  I was like, well, am I even gonna get paid for this? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, well, how much? Can I buy a car at the end of it? And they were like, yeah. And I was like, okay, I'll do it.

• 3:59Speaker 00

  It's quite entrepreneurial.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was like, great, I wanted a truck.

• 4:04Speaker 00

  How much did they pay you to begin with?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  They paid you nothing?

• 4:07Speaker 01

  So here's the crazy thing, when we signed up to do The Osbournes, um...

• 4:11Speaker 00

  Which, by the way, can I just say, was, Jack, man, you paved the way for some great people.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  And also some terrible people too.

• 4:18Speaker 00

  But do that show?

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a, yeah, it's a fun one, for sure. It's funny though, Doug, if I, if you go back and watch it, it plays more like a YouTube show than it does a modern reality show.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very, uh, it's very just kind of run and gun.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  But you're saying they didn't pay you, so what happened?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  So what happened was, we agreed to do the show.

• 4:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  And it was, they started filming in like late September, early October of two thousand and one. And my mom kind of saw, you know, she, we didn't, we didn't know what we were getting into. But ultimately, she was like, yeah, this is a great opportunity for you guys, the kids. Because MTV at the time was...

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Mega.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Mega, it was like the end all be all for, you know, for the youth. And my dad was promoting an album and a tour. And so she was like, this is great promo, you know, let's, let's do this. And so we kept kind of kicking the can down the road with the contract for MTV. And what was meant to be like a three-week pilot that we shot, turned into, you know, months and then while we're still filming, they're like, yeah, we got an air date, we're gonna air in, in March of two thousand and one. But we really need to get this release signed, we really need to get this contract signed. And we were like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem. Obviously, things moved much slower back then, it was, you know, you didn't have Claude reviewing contracts.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  It was like, you know, dusty lawyers with, you know, the, you know, leather patch tweed jackets, kind of yelling at each other and sending faxes. And the show, what ended up happening was, we kept, yeah, yeah, we'll get the deal done, we'll get the deal done. And the show aired and we hadn't signed anything, so they hadn't paid us.

• 5:59Speaker 00

  That is crazy.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, and we hadn't even signed an appearance release. So the show airs and becomes this overnight success, but none of us had signed a contract. And so at that point, we kind of held all the, you know, held all the cards and turned around to MTV and were like, all right, pay up.

• 6:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. Because it's crazy, eight million viewers.

• 6:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:21Speaker 00

  That's what it was getting, which is, that's a wild amount, and it was global.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  Which is crazy for like being thrown into the spotlight without like, but you, you're not really told, there's no handbook, there's no guide, but there's no nothing.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 6:35Speaker 00

  And you're, you're fifteen years old and you're suddenly famous, and then you have to deal with life and everything and school and, and acne and hair and this and that, and that's a wild thing to even experience.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was really intense.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  But how do you navigate that, Jack? Because that's crazy to know.

• 6:50Speaker 01

  I don't, I, yeah, I, I really didn't navigate it well. I had a lot of resentment, I had a lot of like embarrassment because I was, I was not comfortable with like some of the stuff that made it on the air. But ultimately, I kind of, I, I think I used, I used my powers for evil and I was like, screw it, I can get into any club, any bar, I can meet any chick. It was like, I just went full on, you know, just, I went, I went to the dark side of the force.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Really?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:18Speaker 00

  It was just like turbo, turbo, turbo.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, there were, there were, when the show was at its height and it was getting, you know, crazy, crazy viewers every night that was on. I remember I was in New York City and I was downtown, I was like sixteen, and I was getting pulled off, literally physically pulled off the street into bars and like people just like throwing drinks at me.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  At sixteen?

• 7:42Speaker 01

  If I, if I ever saw someone giving a sixteen-year-old alcohol in a bar today, I would be like, I would lose my shit.

• 7:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, because you've experienced it and you know what's gonna happen. And the legal age in America is twenty-one.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:54Speaker 00

  So you were sixteen years old, people were getting you drunk because they were just like, this guy's great, we just, and, and of course you're gonna accept it.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Oh, for long, you're like, oh, this is, this is amazing, and you feel like you can do, you know, when you had, and I was, it's, my daughter was kind of asking me about the show and that time period, because what was my seventies growing up, like, you know, I would talk to your parents about, what were the seventies like? My daughters talked to me about like the early two thousands, like what was, what was like two thousand and two like, like what was that, you know, and this, that, and, and I was explaining, I was like, you know, the, the huge difference with fame now versus fame twenty years ago was there was only a few pipelines, right? You were, you did a TV show, you were a movie star, you were a musician. And to support that, there was magazines and there was like new shows.

• 8:41Speaker 01

  So it wasn't like drinking from a fire hose where it comes to consuming media like it is today. Like, you could be sat next to a YouTuber on a, a plane who's got twenty million subscribers on YouTube, and you might have no idea who that person is.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Whereas back then, everyone kind of knew who everyone was if they were in the zeitgeist and kind of, you know, air quote, famous.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:06Speaker 01

  And, and I was like, it was a, it was a, a level that you just, you, isn't really replicated now. Because I guess if you would compare it, right?

• 9:18Speaker 01

  You know, some big YouTuber or, you know, someone who's got, you know, got a reality show now that is successful in today's terms, isn't, they're not gonna put police barricades in front of the hotel if they're visiting New York City. Like, that's the shit that was happening to them.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Was that happening to you?

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  Jack, get out of here.

• 9:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was like...

• 9:37Speaker 00

  That is fucking wild.

• 9:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, you know, hundreds of people waiting for us outside of a hotel, I'm like, who fucking does that? My acne-covered Afro face, like, I'm like, what?

• 9:49Speaker 00

  That is wild.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  It's insane, yeah, it was insane.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Addictive?

• 9:53Speaker 01

  No, I, I, because I, I was...

• 9:57Speaker 01

  I was really um had like this kind of underlying embarrassment about it in a weird way. I was just kind of like, cause I was awkward. I didn't know how to handle it. And as you said, there was no playbook. It was just like, cause we didn't know that this would be a thing.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Man, so if you think back to your younger self, then you must feel so sorry for your younger self.

• 10:16Speaker 01

  I do, but not in the, not in that context. I feel, I feel sorry for myself that I, that it's, well, it's that, you know, youth is wasted on the young, right? I wish I would have enjoyed it more because it was fun. There was great moments. There was these amazing scenarios that I, I found myself in. Ultimately, it led to so many amazing opportunities and, you know, I've had a really exciting career since. But it um, yeah, I wish, I wish I would have told myself like, just enjoy this.

• 10:46Speaker 00

  Just enjoy the moment.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  But you don't, you don't, um, I did a reality show in the UK, right? And a lot of my friends who did the reality show with me, they're like, they, they reject it. Do you look back at it and regret doing it in a way? Or are you just like, no, I'm proud of that. I'm proud of what we did. I'm proud of what we created and I own it.

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely.

• 11:05Speaker 00

  Best way to be.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. And, and I, and I, but I could relate to the rejecting of it because I think I was, I was there for a long time. And I wonder, have you ever asked them, do they reject it because they couldn't control it? And I think that that's a big part of it, you know, when you, when you are doing a reality show. Yes, it's about you, but you're jumping into someone's boat.

• 11:26Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 11:26Speaker 01

  And they're driving it and you're just going along for the ride and you're like, all right.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  And when you lose that control, Jack, like it's crazy because then you try and grab control wherever it is. What, when you look back at the show, what are those little like big moments in the, in the show that you kind of regret? That you go, I didn't have control over that.

• 11:42Speaker 01

  Um, there was a lot of stuff about like, like I was really in, like, I was always really secretive about like relationships and like dating. And like, I never felt, and I never felt like it kind of forced me to be really secretive about things. And I wish I, I just, I wish I had more confidence in kind of saying like, hey, I don't want this stuff on the air. Or I don't, you know, I'm not comfortable with that stuff being, but I just didn't feel like I could say it. Even though we did have full creative control. And so it was like, I, I think maybe advocating for myself with what was going on the air. And that's probably where it goes, but I don't spend much time going, oh, shoulda, coulda, woulda.

• 12:21Speaker 01

  Because I think a part of what made the show what it was, was the fact that we were so just honest with it all. And like, here it is.

• 12:29Speaker 00

  Can we talk about Ozzy just for a second? Man, as legends go, what a legend.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, absolutely. But the last person on the planet would ever tell you he was a legend.

• 12:40Speaker 00

  Just amazing, right? And his last concert that Ozzy did, um, the doctor said that if he was to perform at the concert, that would probably be the last, right? Can you explain that to me?

• 12:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, like I, I, I, they basically were just saying like, you've, you've, you've got so many things going on, like, we have, we recommend you don't do this because the energy expenditure, like you've got to go and have like these procedures done. There was like something with his heart and he had some like artery stuff going on. And he, he'd had, you know, he'd had a ton of medical kind of mishaps leading up to the show. And they were just like energetically, this is gonna.

• 13:23Speaker 00

  This is not good.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  This is not good. Like you, you don't have it in you. And he was just like, no, I'm doing it. Um.

• 13:31Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 13:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:32Speaker 00

  That is insane.

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  And then seventeen days later, he passed away.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  Man, I'm so sorry.

• 13:38Speaker 01

  It's okay. It, it like, thank you.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  But he wanted his journey. And so I can't, I'm not angry at that. It's like, I mean, if, if someone said to you like, pick how you want to go. You would want to pick how you want to go, right? You wouldn't want to, I can tell you this, and I said this to my wife. I was like, if something ever happens to me, do not let me die in a hospital hooked up to a bunch of machines in a fucking stinky, god awful building. Like with people that really, you know, they care about you, but they don't care about you. It's like, no, like I, I think,

• 14:15Speaker 01

  I think everyone wants to at least have some say in how they go.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 14:19Speaker 01

  If you, cause we're all gonna go. And so I think I, I uh, obviously deeply heartbroken that he's gone. But also he went the way he wanted to.

• 14:29Speaker 00

  Oh man. You said you went on tour with them when you were younger?

• 14:32Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, yeah.

• 14:33Speaker 00

  Wild and amazing.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Great. Yeah. It was all so much fun. It's like, you know, living on a tour bus and going to all these, you know, really crazy places. And this was in, you know, in, in the heyday, right? This was in like the eighties, nineties, early two thousands. So it was uh, it was fun.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  Watching your hero be a hero for others.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 00

  It's kind of incredible.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And it was, I can remember having this thought at one point, right? And you, you know, it was a, I'd be at a show and it'd be, you know, thirty, forty thousand people. It's massive venue and all this stuff. They're all there to see him. And, and this was probably when I was in, I actually don't remember the age where I kind of had this thought. But I was like, oh, it's, as I became more aware of who my dad really was, you know, cause you just, it's not like he, you know, worked in an office and had a, you know, a Saturday garage band with his mates. And then they, you know, released a track and they made it. Like I grew up and he was already very well, you know, it was just who he was, is.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  And I could remember being at the show and being like, wow, like all these people are here to see him. And I had this like moment of like gratitude of like, I just got to go see him.

• 15:51Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 15:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:52Speaker 00

  Did you get to say all the things that you wanted to do to your dad?

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Oh, we spent a, in the last decade of his life, we spent so much time together.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, cause uh, I did, I did, we did Ozzy and Jack's world detour. So for like, you know, we had like three seasons of that show and we did tons of traveling and go in all these fun places. And um, and then, you know, the, and then when he got sick, he was, he was at home, you know? And it was the longest he'd ever just been like at home, uh, for better or for worse, you know? It's, I wish it wasn't the case, but there's also like a level of gratitude in the, in that, that, well, at least I've chosen to kind of lean into the, the positive of it. Like it forced him to slow down, forced it, you know? He, he was around, you could see him whenever. And, and yeah, there was the COVID of it all and a lot of frustration around that as everyone experienced.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  But um, it's still, you know, I, I choose to kind of try and find the, you know, the, the glass half full side of it versus, you know, the ultimately what it led to. And if he had been in good health and hadn't had all the, you know, complications with his surgeries. You know, I don't know if there ever would have been a time where he slowed down, you know? He was just, he was go, go, go all the time. And, and so having that, you know, being able to look back and go, okay. Like there was, there was a lot of um, yeah, there was just, there's a lot of good that kind of came from that.

• 17:22Speaker 00

  And your mom's okay?

• 17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's okay. She's hanging in there, you know? I don't, I don't think it's,

• 17:28Speaker 01

  you know, we, we were talking about it yesterday. It's, you know, we, she's, it's not like you're okay, but you're not okay. You know, that's, that's the kind of way to put it. She says, uh, there's this great Billy Bob Thornton quote where he talks about, you know, with, with grie, he, you know, talks about grieving over the loss of his brother. And he says that at any, at, at all times, I'm fifty percent okay. And I'm fifty percent heartbroken at all times. And I think, you know, and I think that kind of speaks to, you know, I think a lot of where she's at.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  The people who love Ozzy, right? Know Ozzy Osbourne for Ozzy Osbourne. And I get the pleasure of sitting with you. What do, from your side, your personal, what was the greatest thing about your dad?

• 18:14Speaker 01

  Well, I jokingly always said he was, he was the most humble egomaniac you'll ever meet.

• 18:19Speaker 01

  You know, he would, he, he was the guy that just doing what he did, you know, contributing to, you know, whether you like my dad's music or not, he contributed a great to pop culture and to music and to, you know, an art form.

• 18:34Speaker 00

  Hundred percent.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  But he, he never, it never changed him in the sense that, you know, he wasn't seeking a knighthood. He wasn't trying to elevate himself into, as this like grandiose, like I am this, you know, enlightened gift to the world. He was just kind of like, it's just what I do. And, but in the same regard, he would turn around and be like, but I'm a fucking rock star.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  He's a fucking rock star.

• 18:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:01Speaker 00

  Man, I love the fact you, you, I heard that you're creating an AI version.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're doing this, it's an, and.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  Which by the way, I know you got backlash. I think it's a fucking great idea.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  I love it.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Well, and, and that's what, that, you know, the backlash, it was my own fault. I, you know, I was, it was like, we had just kind of figured this thing out and that we were gonna do it. And I guess I didn't, I wasn't properly armed with the way to properly explain what it was. And I think people thought that, you know, next thing you know, it's gonna be Ozzy Osbourne, you know, doing fricking, you know, selling, you know, cell phones. It's like, no.

• 19:39Speaker 00

  No.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  What, what, what we, and a lot of people are doing this now where essentially by creating the AI model and creating the digital fingerprint of, you know, whoever, whatever, you know, whether it's my father or, you know, you know, Bob Marley's people are doing it and Michael Jackson's team are doing it. Exactly. By kind of creating this digital fingerprint, you ultimately will own the digital IP and image of that person. And so as to what it can be used for now, you know, yeah, there's a handful of things, but down the road, it's where things are going, right? It's, it's just, it's no different than saying, I want to own, you know, my, you know, images of my father.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  I want to own, you know, his intellectual property, whatever. It's just another avenue. And the fact that AI is what it is, it's not going anywhere. It's not changing. It was our choice to go, hey, we should be out in front of this and we should, we should not be, you know, on the back foot with having this kind of new pillar of entertainment properly locked down.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  I think it's great.

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• 22:56Speaker 00

  How did becoming a dad change your life?

• 22:58Speaker 01

  Oh, man. It was everything. But I became a dad relatively, I guess, globally speaking, not young, but LA-speaking, very young. Like, I remember with my first wife, when we, I was like 26 when we had Pearl.

• 23:13Speaker 00

  LA-speaking is young.

• 23:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, LA-speaking is young. I remember my wife's doctor used to call us kiddos. "Hey kiddos, what's going on?" And I'm like, "Am I on like teen mom here? Like, I'm 26 and have a job and I'm being called a kiddo in the waiting room of, you know, of an OB?" And you look around, you just see a bunch of, you know, not that there's anything wrong with it, but you see like people with gray hair and they're pregnant. It's like, "Oh, this is so LA."

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Were you nervous about it?

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Oh, terrified. But I also, I think there was, there's also a thing, I hadn't really been exposed to kids very much before having kids. And so I think there was maybe, you know, I was blissfully ignorant.

• 23:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, I had this whole theory that actually there's an amazing thing with the naivety.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Speaker 00

  Because if you're, like, I'm 37 now, right? I know I look very young, but I'm...

• 24:01Speaker 01

  Hey kiddo.

• 24:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, thanks, man. That's what I get the whole time. Because I was 36 when Sophie got pregnant. My whole life, I had my routine. I knew what I wanted to do. I liked getting up and going to the gym. I liked seeing my friends. I liked hanging out. I had all of that set. And so then, when you have a kid, that all changes. But when you're younger, you don't, you're kind of free, you don't have that. You're just naive to it all.

• 24:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:22Speaker 00

  Which makes it so much easier, I think.

• 24:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it absolutely does. Like, friends of mine who are just having kids now in their late 30s, 40s, and they're like, "Oh, man, like, this is such an adjustment." And I'm like, "Well, should have started earlier, bro."

• 24:36Speaker 00

  But I think also, right, like, you know, reading through everything you've done in your life, man, your life is pretty unique.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Definitely unique.

• 24:47Speaker 00

  Definitely unique, man. And now becoming a dad, how do you want to parent, do you think?

• 24:53Speaker 01

  So I'm entering like this new phase now because I'm now parenting a teenager. So I have a 14-year-old all the way down to a seven-month-old. And so, I've never, I never parented a teenager before. I've parented an 11-year-old and an eight-year-old and a four-year-old before. I know kind of the deal. And so now, having a 14-year-old, it's a different skill set I'm having to learn.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  Explain that. What do you mean?

• 25:19Speaker 01

  Well, it's so different because she, you know, my eldest, we'll call her the canary in the coal mine, right? Like, we, she was the first, and so I learned how to kind of replicate everything with the younger sisters from how I parented her. But now that she's a teenager and it's, having a teenager in 2026 is, it's, you know, there's a lot, there's a lot you have to contend with. And so I think for me, the way I parent her now is, I'm not afraid to showcase that, the imperfections of being a parent. I think we all look at our parents like...

• 25:58Speaker 00

  That's great.

• 25:58Speaker 01

  They're, oh, they're perfect. This is it. This is like, they're the perfect person that, you know, and, and so I try and manage that and be like, "Listen, like, you know, you screw up, I screw up. Like, it's okay to mess up. I mess up all the time." And so I don't, I try and be, give her an honest portrayal because she's, you know, she's gonna be, she's gonna be 18 in four years and it's...

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's wild. That's a great way to do it.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, because I don't want her to ever be like, "Well, you portrayed like you were this perfect human, and now that I'm adult, I'm seeing these faults in you that I was unaware of. And how could you be, you know, how could you not be authentic?" And I'm just trying to be authentic now because ultimately, we're gonna spend most of our lives with our children as adults.

• 26:47Speaker 00

  When was the first time that you realized that your parents weren't superheroes, that they weren't being, like, I remember when I was something like, "You're not always right?" Like, that was a crazy moment for me.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  I think it was, it was probably when I, when I was older and I, and I was aware of their mistakes that they were making. When I was like, "Well, wait a second. Like, that doesn't make sense."

• 27:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  And it was a bit, a bit shocking. You know, the good thing about my parents, though, is that they were always very honest. We never, it never was the thing where like, you know, "I never saw my parents fight. I never..." You know, there's a lot of people that will portray to their kids like superhero status.

• 27:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  And my parents never were that, probably to a fault. Like, I had a real deep understanding of my parents just because of, we were all so close. We all, you know, I spent so much time with my parents growing up that I got a good sense, but it was also like warts and all, you know? Like, I got, I got a really good sense of the good sides and the bad sides kind of equally. And, and that's okay. You know, that's how they, they chose to parent and I'm grateful for it. But, you know, I think, I mean, I know I'm doing things differently than my parents did. I think we all kind of, you know, I think that's kind of a part of the human evolution. We all try and, we always try and do, you know, do things a little bit better.

• 28:08Speaker 00

  Dude, what were you like as a teenager?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  I was insane. I was absolutely insane.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  The shit, and I say this to my daughter, I'm like, "The shit that I was doing at her age to versus what she does, it's night and day." Like, I was, you know, at 14, I would ride my bike from, you know, from the mean streets of Beverly Hills to the Sunset Strip. I would be out until 2:00 in the morning, going from, you know, club to club, watching bands and like drinking and just doing crazy shit. And I would never, in a million years, like, my daughter is talking about going to a Halloween party this, you know, for Halloween this year. And I'm like, "Well, whose house is it at? Can I speak to the parents? Are there gonna be parents at this house? What kids

• 28:54Speaker 01

  are go..." Like, I want to know everything. And so it's, yeah, it was, it was a, I was, I remember the day I turned 13, I used to, I used to be involved in this like independent like theater group. I got pulled into it because my sister's school tutor needed to cast like a young, they needed like someone to play a kid in this play. And he's like, "You want to do it?" And I was like, "Okay." So I was going to all these college parties when I was like 12. And I remember the day I turned 13, this really grumpy, this really grumpy guy looked at me and was like, "Welcome to the worst years of your life." And he was so right.

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Jesus, that is wild.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 00

  Do you remember the first time you tried alcohol?

• 29:37Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yeah, I do.

• 29:38Speaker 00

  What was it?

• 29:39Speaker 01

  I think I like, I, I think I just stole like a, you know, a Stella or something and like went and drank it in the backyard kind of thing and and then it was like, oh, this shit's gross. And then as you get older and kind of fall into the, you know, not the, not the most savory of, you know, teenagers, you know, I always gravitated towards the older kids kind of thing and.

• 29:59Speaker 00

  I was exactly the same as that. I remember the first time I tried alcohol. It was like this, it was, I didn't like the taste, but it was, the feeling of it was like nectar. It was like, oh my God, I, I, I can't believe that this makes me feel like relaxed and calm. And like you, ADHD, dyslexia, just crazy kid. It calmed me down. So I just, I enjoyed it. I thought it was really, really good. And I, because I was a boarding school, I had restrictions, right? So I couldn't go and do things. You just seemed like you didn't have restrictions. So you could just kind of go and do anything. And then you would, if you keep drinking, drinking, drinking, that kind of leads to maybe not the best things, right?

• 30:39Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Yeah, a hundred percent. Because I think kids, kids crave boundaries, right? They come into the world with these default settings, which is just chaos. And I think it's, I know for me, I needed these guardrails to, what I, what I now know is, you know, craved guardrails. I just didn't have them. And it just fed into that like self-will-run riot.

• 31:01Speaker 00

  Did you have zero guardrails?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  There were, my parents would try. They absolutely would try. But I think the main focus was they were more concerned about my sisters. And that, you know, they're having guardrails around them and they, they parented me versus my sisters very differently. Um, they were a lot more strict with, with them and, and, you know, they had curfew. They had to be home at a certain time, whereas I didn't. Um, uh, for a while and then they kind of were like, wait a second, this is, this is getting, this is getting a little too much.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  Why do you think you went like, why do you think there was that like, like fascination with the older kids?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I think it was because I, I had spent so much of my childhood in an adult environment. And I hated feeling like a kid. I hated that whole notion of like, oh, you, you know, sit and, sit at the ta, you know, sit at the kid table at dinner. Like I liked, you know, I, I used to go to meetings with my mom. I would go on tour with my dad. So I was always around these older people. And I just felt, you know, I can remember my first day at high school. I instantly became friends with all the seniors when I was in ninth grade. And so it was like, that just felt more comfortable for me. And I, I had close relationships with guys in a lot of the bands that toured with my dad. And so I think it was just like familiar. It was like, oh, look, it's an older guy, does music, kind of knows my world. It felt

• 32:20Speaker 01

  like those were people that were, I understood and it, it felt like they were, I don't know, at the time, I was like, yeah, it's like, it's like having older brothers kind of thing. Cause I was in a house of, you know, with two crazy sisters. And I was like, I need, I need older brothers around.

• 32:35Speaker 00

  You need something like that.

• 32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:36Speaker 00

  Can, can we talk about drinking as well?

• 32:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 00

  Um, cause I kind of love how honest and open you are about that. And I know that so many people listening to this as well probably look up to you in the fact that you talk about your sobriety and the fact that you, you know, at seventeen years old, you kind of, you, you went to rehab and you haven't had a drink since then. You had your first drink at thirteen, twelve, whatever it was, last drink at seventeen.

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 32:58Speaker 00

  So it's a young age to make that decision.

• 33:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 00

  And to be put into rehab. Do you remember that moment that you were taken to rehab?

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 33:05Speaker 00

  What happened?

• 33:06Speaker 01

  I, um, I was supposed to shoot a pilot for MTV. It's actually a show well ahead of its time. I came up, I came up with this idea called Jack's Midnight Munchies. And the show was,

• 33:16Speaker 00

  This is your idea?

• 33:17Speaker 01

  This was my idea. And MTV were gonna film this pilot and it was a cooking show that was about, it was basically like, all right, what?

• 33:25Speaker 00

  A good idea.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would have, I would have, um, celebrity guests come on who were kind of known potheads. And it's like, all right, when you're stoned off your face, what do you cook at night? And so it was like cooking show where, you know, it was, yeah, anyway.

• 33:39Speaker 00

  Well, you were high.

• 33:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:40Speaker 00

  It's a good idea.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, great, huh? Great, right?

• 33:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you're, you know, if you're into that thing. Uh, but I was so high, I didn't make it to the film, the pilot. I just didn't show up.

• 33:51Speaker 01

  And so it, that was like the straw that broke the camel's back with my, my family. They were like, this cannot be. And so they sent these like security guards to like, you know, do that like snatch and grab, like grab me and then they were gonna take me to treatment. But I kind of saw it coming and I took off. My, you know, extracurricular activities had gone from, you know, drinking to, you know, to doing, doing drugs and pretty hard drugs at that. And, um, a friend had called my mom and was like, hey, he's, you know, he's doing all this stuff and it's really dangerous and you should be aware of how bad he really is. Cause I was, you know, I was very much, uh, kind of on my own island and dodging my parents and not spending a lot of time at home and sleeping out and whatever.

• 34:35Speaker 01

  And my parents had a, a beach house at the time that I kind of was just holed up in. And so I didn't show up for this pilot. They, she sends these like two big, you know, bodyguards to kind of go and grab me and bring me back to, you know, the house in Beverly Hills, cause they were gonna ship me off somewhere. And, um, I took off for the weekend and had this like, just insane, just tragic, horrible, nothing glamorous about it. And like quite heartbreaking if I even, if I look at it from a parent's perspective. And, um, I ended up waking up on, uh, Easter Sunday, two thousand and three. And this, this girl that I'd been hanging out with, she kind of was like, you know,

• 35:20Speaker 01

  maybe going away somewhere might not be a bad idea. Just to like dry out and just, you know, detox yourself, you know, this is pretty, you know, you're getting kind of crazy. It's like, oh, I don't know, I don't know. And I went back to our beach house, at which point my parents had gone to the, they'd, they'd turned up at the beach house and, and, you know, I, they just were like, this can't be. And you gotta get, you gotta get right, this, that and the other. And I was just like, okay, like I'll, I'll go, I'll, I'll go to treatment. Having kind of this wild weekend and realizing like, yeah, that was pretty, pretty insane.

• 35:56Speaker 00

  How wild was it?

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Oh, it was like, I mean, I, I, there are huge chunks I don't remember. Like it was full blackout, like, you know, and garage, I was in, for, I think about a day and a half, like just in this garage in Venice, at my friend's studio, just out of my mind and ended up in a hotel room and I held a butter knife to someone's throat, like, it was just, it was insane. It was nuts. And I, but I, the mental health side of it was really, really bad. Like I was having just horrible depression, like full suicidal ideation and, and I just kind of woke up on that Easter Sunday and was like, I, I have to,

• 36:40Speaker 01

  this, this can't be. Like, I don't think I'm gonna, I don't, I won't, I won't finish, I won't make the summer, basically. Cause I was,

• 36:45Speaker 00

  You knew that?

• 36:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, cause I, and I was, I was drinking and doing OxyContin, which is like, that's the, the kiss of death. Like, that's where you don't, you don't wake up with that combination.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  I'm so sorry, man.

• 36:58Speaker 01

  It's okay. I'm, I'm grateful for it.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  No, I know you are, but also, but also just it's in, it's a lot to deal with because I imagine you're the seventeen-year-old kid, you're just feeling insecure, you don't know about this world, you're going to hotels and there's police barricades outside and you're just like, what the fuck is going on here? And this stuff that I'm taking makes me forget about all of that.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Hundred percent, yeah.

• 37:17Speaker 00

  So if someone's listening right now and they're in the same position that you were in when you were seventeen, what would you say to that person?

• 37:23Speaker 01

  There's another way. It doesn't have to be like this. There is a solution to this, but you have to want it. You can't, the, the only way to really succeed in this is, no one can do the work for you and you have to want it. Uh, but it is available and there's so, and, and, you know, I used to be such a hardliner with recovery. It was like, I was super black and white. You're either, you know, you're either in twelve-step recovery, you know, doing the deal, working steps, sponsoring people, doing the deal.

• 37:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  You know, uh, and that that's the only way to do it. But I think there's now, there, there's, there's, there's so many ways to skin the cat. And I think it, I think recovery is such an individualized, uh, experience to people. Yes. That total abstinence model absolutely works for a lot of people, but it doesn't always work for everyone. And I, and no, and I think that, um, it, that's, that scares a lot of people, right?

• 38:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  That like, oh, well, I'm not, I, you know, the whole T-total thing and this, that and the other. Like, listen, it's a, a, a well, you know, and, and, uh, something that is often said in recovery, it's about progress, not perfection, right? And, and if you can find a way to start moving the needle in a more favorable direction with how you're choosing to, to self-medicate. You know, I, listen, option one, always go T-total, you know, dive into the program, find God, find this, you know, find the steps, do that. It works. It absolutely does. If you are constitutionally incapable of doing that, there are other, there are other options out there, you know, there's all this medication out there that, you know, that helps. And I'm, I'm just of the mindset of like,

• 39:02Speaker 01

  it doesn't have to be black and white, but you have to move the needle somehow.

• 39:06Speaker 00

  Man, congrats to you. How do you stay sober then?

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Um, I, I got, I got really into recovery, you know, I, I, a lot of meetings, um, you know, yes, the therapy side of things and, you know, the, you know, the, with twelve-step recovery, it does a really good job laying out like, hey, this is, this is how it can be done. At face value, you look at it and you're like, all right, that seems pretty easy, but it is incredibly hard. You know, it is a very rigorous, um, process. Um, but I needed that structure, you know, I need that roadmap. And I also, the big thing for me was community. It was,

• 39:42Speaker 00

  Oh man, it's everything.

• 39:43Speaker 01

  It is everything.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  It's, it's everything. It's everything to like, the more I look into it, the more I understand, community connection is, it's all we need.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. And where, and where we've moved, and honestly, I think one of the greatest things about twelve-step recovery is that it's, you know, we're hardwired to be tribal creatures.

• 40:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  You know, humans have only been living in single-family homes for the last, what, maybe hundred and fifty years?

• 40:07Speaker 00

  Crazy, right?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  We were, it was, it was communities and it was tribal structure and villages and whatever. And, and now it's like, you go to the four walls of your house or your flat or whatever, and you don't really know your neighbor and you have, you know, maybe some friends you hang out with here and there. And we've become these insular kind of solo beings that we're not meant to be.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  Have you ever had moments in your life where you felt like your sobriety has been threatened? Truthfully?

• 40:35Speaker 00

  Or no?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yes, but so for me, it, you know, addiction's whack-a-mole. It's, it doesn't just, you know, I am.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Drinking alcohol and doing drugs is a symptom of

• 40:52Speaker 01

  a malady, a disease that I have. So just because I remove the drugs and alcohol, it doesn't mean that that disease isn't still there and it will always find a way for me. And I have to be so vigilant about how I'm, how I'm operating. You know, whether it's through food, whether it's through spending, whether it's through porn, whether it's through whatever, like if I can get a dopamine hit, if something can make me feel different, video games, oh my God, I used to have the craziest video game addiction.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  Are you serious?

• 41:23Speaker 01

  Oh my God, yeah.

• 41:24Speaker 00

  Like what, like how many hours would you?

• 41:26Speaker 01

  So, you know, are you, are you familiar with gaming?

• 41:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  Okay, you know PUBG?

• 41:30Speaker 00

  No.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  So there's a game called PUBG, it was the, it was player unknown battlegrounds. It was the precursor to Fortnite.

• 41:35Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 41:36Speaker 01

  I think I played, I put 6,000 hours into that game. I was like a full on crackhead.

• 41:44Speaker 00

  Six thousand hours? Yeah, how many days is that? You, that is a crazy amount.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  I mean, yeah, it was over a long period, but like,

• 41:54Speaker 00

  Sure, but yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 01

  But I've, if, if, if I can find something that makes me feel different, I will, I can, I can go wild into it.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Because it makes, it's, it's, it's that,

• 42:07Speaker 01

  The escape.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  It's the escape.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  It's the pacifier. You know, it's like, I want, I want that dummy in my mouth so I don't have to deal, you know, with the discomfort of the human experience.

• 42:17Speaker 00

  Do you get addicted to work?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yes, I can do, I can do.

• 42:21Speaker 00

  Do you hyper focus?

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, yeah, but I've been finding myself doing that a lot lately, but it's okay. It's like in a healthy way. As my, as my buddy said, he's like, you're just, you're in grad school right now. You just need to like focus, you know, you've got a lot on your plate.

• 42:34Speaker 00

  Do you know, that's 6,000, 6,000 hours is 250 days.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  That's full days, that's 24 hours. Are you shaming me right now?

• 42:45Speaker 00

  No, I'm not shaming you, I'm not shaming you. You know, it's crazy. I, I, I saw a statistic, right, which is, um, you know, talk about scrolling social media, right? If you scroll on social media two hours a day, two hours a day, right? That's 30 days a year you're spending on social media. It's wild, man, we're not thinking it's crazy. We're just like addicted to all these different things the whole time.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:03Speaker 00

  Do you, do you think that's why your, your podcast, Trying Not To Die? Do you think that's the inspiration behind it?

• 43:08Speaker 01

  A little bit, because I think at the, when you boil it all down, right? The reason why I went with Trying Not To Die is because that's all anyone is,

• 43:16Speaker 00

  Great name, it wasn't taken?

• 43:17Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't taken.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  Good, let's go.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Cause everything we do is a, uh, is an effort to try to not to die, right? You wake up, you brush your teeth, you brush your teeth because you don't want your teeth to rot because you can get an infection, it can kill you. Your teeth fall out and you look gross. All right, try not to die there. I want to eat right, all right, try not to die there. I want to go to the gym, try not to die there. I've got a health issue, I'm trying to, it's, everything kind of, kind of will devolve down to that real basic fundamental of like, this is, is in an effort to not leave this experience.

• 43:55Speaker 00

  So do you believe in longevity?

• 43:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I do, absolutely.

• 43:57Speaker 00

  And do you, do you purposely go after it in different ways?

• 44:01Speaker 01

  I, I do it not out of fear, I do it out of passion, if that makes sense. I think a lot of people that are like, oh, I don't want to die, I don't want to die, I don't, well, why don't you want to die? Are you, what is it you're afraid of? For me, I do a lot of the kind of longevity, like wellness stuff because I have things that I enjoy to do and I want to keep doing them. You know, I, I enjoy, I love jujitsu, I want to keep doing that, you know? I love being able to go do things with my kids, I want to keep doing that. So that, that's, it's not about the, you know, the,

• 44:34Speaker 01

  the fear of, oh God, well, if I don't do that, I'm, I'm gonna, if I don't take this magic serum or take this handful of supplements, then I'm gonna age out and be dead. It's like, that's not my reason, it's just because I like to do fun shit.

• 44:46Speaker 00

  So you're not scared of dying?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  The aspect of death that scares me is that I don't want to miss out on my kids.

• 44:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  That's it. You know, I think, I think death is just a, and you know, it's just another level in the system.

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• 46:37Speaker 00

  26 years old, you just had your first kid. Pearl. And suddenly you lose eyes, your 60% of your eyesight.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  In your right eye.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  What happens?

• 46:49Speaker 01

  So I was, I was away working and I just, you know, I lost a huge part of my vision in my, my right eye and I, uh, came back to Los Angeles and go to the eye doctor because that's, it's my eye, I can't see, so I figure eye doctor and the eye doctor was running all these tests and then he's kind of sent me to the emergency room to go get an MRI, which they don't do MRIs in emergency room. That's kind of like a, you need a book, you need to go, it's a whole thing. But he was like, no, no, you need to get an MRI like now. So he sends me over to the hospital and, you know, I go into the machine, you know, the whole thing and, you know, very slow, long process to get into an MRI and

• 47:33Speaker 01

  turns out that I have all these lesions in my brain and my spine and, and basically indicated multiple sclerosis. And what was going on was, you know, my nerve, my optic nerve in my eye, it was, you know, essentially being attacked because of multiple sclerosis and, uh, um, yeah, that's why I lost the vision and, and it kind of threw me down this whole strange new, you know, journey of living with MS.

• 47:58Speaker 00

  And when you get that diagnosis, what did it make you feel?

• 48:01Speaker 01

  I was frustrated. I was really frustrated because I was like, oh man, like I, you know, I, I, I just had a baby. I, I'd always, you know, up until that point in my adult life, I'd done so much like adventuring and I'd done that show, you know, Droneland Junkie in England where I'd traveled the world and do all these crazy things for years and, and I enjoyed the, just being like a physically active person. And, um, and I was just so like deflated in the sense that, because you go to the worst case scenario when you get news like that. And so in my mind, with how little I knew about MS, it was like, well, like, I guess I gotta find a house that's got, you know, wheelchair access now and, you know, how's that gonna work?

• 48:46Speaker 01

  And, you know, I, I just went to, I will no longer be able bodied.

• 48:51Speaker 00

  That's so scary.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  It is, yeah. And it's terrible because you're like,

• 48:56Speaker 00

  Like why, for sake, what?

• 48:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. And I, and it was funny, I, going back to like community and people you could call in times of need, you know, had this, I had a very good friend in, in recovery and, but he's a, he's like the most like surly, just like, you know, just straight shooter is like, makes a lot of enemies, but if you're his friend, you're his friend. And, uh, he, I called him and I was like, dude, I just got this news. And he goes, well, you gonna die today? I'm like, well, no. He's like, good, call Ben Barrow and hung up the phone. It's like, okay, but it was just what I needed in the sense of like, you know, as tripe and as cliché as it is, but like, you know, day at a time, right?

• 49:42Speaker 01

  It's all we got. And so that was his way of being like, okay, that might happen, but it's not happening today and I'll speak to you tomorrow.

• 49:49Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 49:49Speaker 01

  That's what a nice person would say.

• 49:52Speaker 00

  But, but you, you, you look healthy.

• 49:54Speaker 01

  I am, yeah.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  You look super fit.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, I am, yeah. Well, that, and that's the frustrating thing about uh, having an autoimmune disease like multiple sclerosis. It is as unique to the individual who has it as their own fingerprint. Because I, you could meet someone who is the same age as me, got diagnosed the same day as me, and they could have a completely different trajectory with it because of the nature of what the disease does to the body.

• 50:22Speaker 00

  Really?

• 50:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it, it, it attacks your nerve endings. And so your whole body is nerve endings and, but it doesn't necessarily follow the same track with how it breaks down, what nerves, when and where it just, you know, cause my two biggest flare ups were my legs went numb for about three or four months, eighteen months prior to me going blind in my right eye. So, you know, my knucklehead goes, well, how are my legs and my eye can like, how does that connect?

• 50:55Speaker 01

  And so it does just affect everyone differently. I mean, yes, there's buckets of common, you know, issues that people do suffer, but for the most part, it's so individualized.

• 51:05Speaker 00

  So what does it look like living day to day?

• 51:07Speaker 01

  For me, I'm super not bothered by it. You know, I'll have some little things here and there, like I had this bout where it felt like I had like road rash on my body for, and that was really uncomfortable.

• 51:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  Like couldn't, like bed sheets hurt, like, um, but for the, I mean, I miss, I mean, touch wood, I've been so lucky that I haven't been continuously played. Cause I have people in my life that got diagnosed after me and are in much worse places with it. And it, it's just the way that their body, you know, tries to fight this autoimmune disease.

• 51:44Speaker 00

  And you're so positive. I love it.

• 51:46Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  That mindset is so great.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cause you gotta have that mindset, right?

• 51:50Speaker 00

  Do you eat super healthy? No?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yes and no. I mean, as healthy as I can with five kids that all like chicken nuggets and, you know, and french fries. Um, no, I go through phases. Uh, I've, you know, I was, uh, you know, I'm, I'm getting back on, back on it, but I'm, I'm super physical. Like I, you know, do jiu jitsu, I just, you know, I go to the gym, I, um, you know, I do a bunch of supplements and, you know, and peptides and freaking.

• 52:16Speaker 00

  You do peptides?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, dude.

• 52:17Speaker 00

  You, you, what, what peptides do you take?

• 52:19Speaker 01

  I do a, a combination and I'm always, I'm like a fricking scientist. So like, I'm not, but I work with some really great people that are like, we're gonna try this this month and that, that month, like I mix it up. So everything from, you know, uh, something called Glow, which is a combination of like BPC one, five, seven, and like, I forget what else is in there, but it's really good for, um, like repairing things in your body. It was described as like, it's the engine mechanic for your body. Um, and it's really good for your skin too. And then there's, I do CJC ipimolin, which is the, um, recovery and, and strength and.

• 52:54Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then, you know, do it, you know, I mean, always mixing it up.

• 52:58Speaker 00

  And there's no downside or there's.

• 53:01Speaker 01

  Some people will have, can have strange reactions to it. Um, I've never been one of those people. Um, I, the downside is, I've, now, okay, I'll say that, you know, CJC, ipimolin, um, some, that there is a cancer risk to it, to where if you.

• 53:19Speaker 00

  Cause it can grow the.

• 53:20Speaker 01

  Yes, if you have cancer cells in your body.

• 53:22Speaker 00

  It will grow them.

• 53:22Speaker 01

  It will grow them. Um, but I do blood work every three months. Like I'm really kind of psychotic about it.

• 53:28Speaker 00

  So what do you think about ZenPeg?

• 53:31Speaker 01

  I will say this, I think.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 53:34Speaker 01

  No, I, I, I think by and large, it's a good thing. And I think people need to kind of get off this notion that like, oh my, fuck, is ZenPeg this, that and the other. At the end of the day, it is helping people with weight issues, right? Look at all the insanely crazy health risks from being overweight, right? You've got blood pressure issues, heart issues, cholesterol issues. You can have strokes, diabetes, like you look at all the risks of being overweight. And then you look at the risks of being on, on a, you know, GLP one. They exist for sure. Anyone can turn a medicine into a poison. There are people that do abuse it. There are people that go over the top with it.

• 54:19Speaker 01

  There are people that give it a bad, you know, a bad reputation. But I have people in my life who have gone on it and they're no longer prediabetic. They are.

• 54:30Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 54:31Speaker 01

  Blood pressure is like totally normal and they're not, they're not abusing, they're not going crazy with it. And it's completely changed their lives. And, and at that point you go, all right, risk versus reward. I kind of feel like the reward for it is kind of out, outweighing the risk. That being said, all right, if someone is dealing with weight issues, I've dealt with weight issues my whole life.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  Do you still deal with it?

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolutely. Oh my God. Yeah. Like I'll yo-yo like fifteen, twenty pounds. So it's we, like I'll, you know, it just, I just do, it's just the way I am. Um, and it's a struggle and it sucks. And it's easy for healthy, skinny people to sit there and be like, ZenPeg, these people are crazy, this, that and the other. It's like, well, you know, have you ever been, you know, a hundred pounds overweight?

• 55:24Speaker 00

  You know, it's funny, like I, I, I wrote a book recently called Boys Don't Cry and, and each chapter I titled a different thing. And I got to W and I was gonna think about what to, to title and I titled it weight. Because I also dealt with, as soon as I went on camera, I suddenly saw myself in different angles. I was like, wow, this, but for some reason it was the, the hardest thing for me to talk about. Still now talking to you, I, I don't know why with men, we struggle to talk about weight issue. We're so, it's, I was so ashamed that I like, didn't like the way that I look. I thought I was overweight here.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  And I struggled with it so much in my twenties, like crazy, and it sticks with you.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Oh my God, yeah, it does.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  It's crazy. It's like, and it's like a hidden secret.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And it's deeply intimate too, because you're like, you know, you see you without clothes on. You go to put a pair of jeans on that two weeks ago fit, now they don't. And you're like, fuck, and it just like chips away and chips away.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  But like I said, someone will always find a way to abuse something good and it does happen and it is unfortunate.

• 56:29Speaker 00

  Jack, can I just say one? Thank you.

• 56:30Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 56:31Speaker 00

  Man, I really like appreciate, I appreciate how open you've been. Your podcast, it like is great. We're gonna leave a link to everything in the show description.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Cool, thank you.

• 56:41Speaker 00

  So people can go and listen to it as well. And look, you've just like entertained so many of us like for so long and everything you've done. So great to meet you.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Well, it's great meeting you too. Yeah. And thank, thanks for having me. It's been great.

• 56:51Speaker 00

  Listen, we like to end the conversation with eight quick questions. You ready for this?

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Let's do it. Okay.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Here we go. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

• 56:58Speaker 01

  Existence is pain, but it doesn't suck.

• 57:01Speaker 00

  That's fricking good. Get that tattooed on me as well. Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  You have a good hairline.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  That is a good one.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  What scares you most about yourself?

• 57:16Speaker 01

  Oh man, what scares me most?

• 57:20Speaker 00

  Maybe nothing.

• 57:21Speaker 01

  No, my, my, my default ability to justify things.

• 57:27Speaker 00

  Explain, what do you mean?

• 57:28Speaker 01

  Like, I, I can find a way to justify anything to myself.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Good one. When was the last time you cried?

• 57:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yesterday.

• 57:37Speaker 00

  What'd you cry about?

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Man, um, guy came up to me in the street. He came up to me in the street and he, he was a huge fan of my dad's. He was a young guy too.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Oh man.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Jack, I'm, yeah. Do you know how beautiful that is?

• 58:02Speaker 00

  And by the way, listen, it's so, being vulnerable and being okay to like cry is the greatest thing.

• 58:07Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I don't give a shit. I fucking cry everywhere.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Oh, what's this one?

• 58:13Speaker 00

  No.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  When was the last time you took a shit?

• 58:17Speaker 00

  I was next. Or something you can't let go of?

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I have a teddy bear I've had since I was born.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  You don't?

• 58:25Speaker 01

  I swear to God, I do. Sleep with him in my bed every night.

• 58:31Speaker 00

  What's the teddy bear called?

• 58:32Speaker 01

  Bear.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  It's original. Every, and it's easy, every night?

• 58:35Speaker 01

  It is in my bed every night. I might not necessarily cuddle him every night, but he's in my bed every night.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  What's a guilty pleasure?

• 58:40Speaker 01

  Guilty pleasure, um, ice cream. Oh God, I love ice cream.

• 58:44Speaker 00

  Favorite ice cream?

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Brand or flavor?

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Flavor.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Probably, I like, I like strawberry, but like a good, like.

• 58:54Speaker 00

  Strawberry?

• 58:55Speaker 01

  Strawberry ice cream.

• 58:55Speaker 00

  Anything. You can pick strawberry.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Strawberry ice cream, but it has to be a specific strawberry. Like it's gotta have like chunks of strawberry.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Okay, so it's gotta be.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it can't just be like pink ice cream that they say is strawberry. No.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  No, you want like a, yeah, I get it. Biggest turn off?

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Biggest turn off, uh, picky eaters. People that complain about food and are picky about it and like, mm, you know what? This is, can you send that back? No, you're fucking done to me.

• 59:19Speaker 00

  Biggest turn on?

• 59:21Speaker 01

  A wicked sense of humor. Like my wife's got a, such a great sense of humor. Yeah.

• 59:25Speaker 00

  Your whole family has that as well, right?

• 59:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. If you could, if you could find a way to laugh about shit and like, yeah, I'm in.

• 59:32Speaker 00

  Best thing about your wife?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Her grace. Yeah. My wife's got a lot of grace and just kind of this like flow to her.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  What do you like most about yourself?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  Uh, I think what I like most about myself is, it's kind of two things. Like I'm, I'm not, I'm not afraid of a lot of things. I'm like really open to experiencing things, but, and I guess it kind of falls under this notion that like, I'm,

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  I know I'm not, I'm never done. Like I know there's always something to kind of improve on. And so I, I, I guess the fear, the lack of fear is tied into that of like, and I'm not, and not afraid to keep kind of.

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  You keep developing and moving and growing and trying things.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  Love that. Jack, listen, I've loved everything about this buddy. I really appreciate, thank you. You are just beyond great company. Thank you so much for coming on, man. That is amazing. Are you kidding me, dude? That is fricking amazing.

• 1:00:33Speaker 01

  Tons of fun. Thank you.

• 1:00:39Speaker 05

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