MICHAEL OWEN: The Price I Paid for Being England’s Golden Boy

Michael Owen is one of England’s greatest strikers and football’s original Golden Boy. He signed for Liverpool at just 17, became England's youngest World Cup goalscorer and won the prestigious Ballon d'Or aged 21. But injuries changed everything. At the top of his game, and far too early into his career, Michael’s body let him down. He moved from club to club, determined to keep playing the sport he loved, before eventually retiring in 2013. In our conversation, Michael opens up about the highs, the low and how his family has kept him grounded throughout it all. He shares: What it was like being England’s Golden BoyHow it felt when his body betrayed him aged 21 How his son, James, is clinically blind and hasn't let it hold him backWhat he really thinks about his ‘boring’ image Michael’s story is fascinating…and anything but boring. Michael Owen is Great Company. All six episodes of Meet the Owens are available to stream exclusively on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/video/detail/B0HFKN2P87?ref_=atv_dp_share_cu_r If you enjoyed the show, you can also follow us: Instagram - @greatcompanypodcast TikTok - @greatcompanypodcast Jamie - @jamielaing And if you've got thoughts, questions and comments, you can email us at: [email protected] THE CREDITS Producer: Helen Burke Assistant Producer: Issy Weeks-Hankins Video: Josh Bennett Senior Social Media Manager: Laura Coughlan Audio: Rafi Amsili Geovannetti Shot on Sony Cinema Line cameras FX6, FX2 with Sony G-Master lenses 16-35GM, 24-70GM Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I was born to be a footballer.

• 0:01Speaker 01

  England's youngest player of the 20th century, signed for Liverpool senior team at 17 and Ballon d'Or at 21. To achieve that much at such a young age.

• 0:09Speaker 00

  For the first three, four, five years of my career, that was Michael Owen. If you want to watch the back eight years of my career, then. My kids say that, like, everyone says you're boring, like.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Does it frustrate you?

• 0:25Speaker 00

  Hi, I'm Michael Owen and I'm in great company.

• 0:31Speaker 01

  What is your moment, your proudest moment on the pitch? We think about it, gives you goosebumps.

• 0:35Speaker 00

  FA Cup final, Liverpool two, Arsenal one. Biggest moment, 97th minute or something, and you feel the crowd going like that. You've got to go cold and calm and relax, focus, concentrate, great touch, bump, bump.

• 0:52Speaker 00

  My body was my big problem. It let me down.

• 0:54Speaker 01

  2006 World Cup, playing at Sweden.

• 0:56Speaker 00

  When I did mine, yeah.

• 0:57Speaker 01

  What are you thinking when something like that happens?

• 0:59Speaker 00

  That would be my, the biggest dagger to my heart.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  What does it do mentally to you as an athlete?

• 1:06Speaker 01

  The most important thing in life is family.

• 1:08Speaker 00

  My son is clinically blind.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  It must be pretty scary.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  Oh, it's shocking, yeah. And you blame yourself a bit. I get to spend like three times more time with my lad because he's got an eye condition. Every time we sit at a restaurant, he's by my side. Need to cut his food because he can't. And I always say to him, son, your eyes are going to be better one day. There will be a transplant. You're going to be like almost have superpowers.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  That's amazing. Bonus one, shag, marry, avoid. Wayne Rooney, Gary Lineker, Avantura.

• 1:37Speaker 00

  I'll marry Wazza. I certainly won't want to shag him.

• 1:42Speaker 01

  So who are you shagging and avoiding?

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• 3:51Speaker 01

  Guys, we have Michael Owen on the show today. I'm not kidding you. My eight-year-old self would be freaking out right now, maybe my 10-year-old self. Michael Owen, Liverpool legend, England legend, Ballon d'Or winner. Yeah, Michael Owen is on the show today. I cannot wait. Things we talk about, I never knew about him and we set the record straight on whether he's boring or not. Okay, before we start the show, can you do one quick favor? Click that subscribe button. It's completely for free. It means you join our amazing community. And it means we keep making this show better for you guys each week. If you're that one thing, thank you so much. Okay, enjoy this wild episode of Great Company with Michael Owen.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  First thing, man, thank you for this.

• 4:32Speaker 00

  Well, when I told my missus and daughter that I was coming, they were like, oh my God, that is the best show ever. And she also, she also said, he's so like you, he's dead funny, which nobody will believe, obviously. He's so like you, he's dead funny and he's, and he's got a right fit wife. And she rolls her eyes at him all the time as well, like, like mum does type of thing. So apparently we're very similar.

• 4:58Speaker 01

  Dude, I love that. I love everything about that.

• 5:00Speaker 00

  And the last thing she said, yeah, punching above the weight, she said, like you are.

• 5:04Speaker 01

  As I walk down the road, people just salute me. They go, how have you done that?

• 5:07Speaker 00

  Is that right?

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 5:08Speaker 00

  It's great punching above your weight, isn't it?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Man, are you kidding me? Like, if I'm, if I'm being totally honest, I don't really want someone to say, you're punching a little bit, look.

• 5:14Speaker 00

  Imagine it, yeah, imagine it.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  I'm quite happy.

• 5:17Speaker 00

  I can take the stick of thinking, yeah, you're just an average looking guy, but your missus is beautiful. I would much prefer that.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, anyway.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  But my wife does, my wife does have to say, I go, do you think, do you think you're punching or am I punching? And she'll be like, I think you're punching a little bit.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  I play, I play that card. I give us numbers out of 10. I say, I reckon I'm like a six and a half. This is in the documentary, actually.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  I do that as well.

• 5:41Speaker 00

  What do you reckon you are? And she's like, so, she's not like me. I'm like, but she'd be like, well, I'm probably a six and a half as well. I'm like, fair play.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  I give myself a seven on a good day.

• 5:52Speaker 00

  Well, I say six and a half because I don't want to sound too, but I think I'm a seven as well. If I had an extra couple of inches in height, before you look at me, in height, let's just quantify that. Then I reckon I might get to a seven, yeah. My height kills me. Five foot eight is not.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  I think I'm about, I'm 5'9" on a good day. If I slept, well, I'm 5'9". But I think when God made me, he took my height away. He said, I can't give you six foot.

• 6:15Speaker 00

  Can't give you everything.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  You can't give you everything.

• 6:16Speaker 00

  I mean, you've got everything.

• 6:17Speaker 01

  Can't give you everything.

• 6:20Speaker 01

  How would your kids describe you?

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Attention seeker.

• 6:26Speaker 00

  A nob.

• 6:30Speaker 00

  Loud, drinks too much, and when he does, he gets louder.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Generous. I think they would think I'm, you know, I would, I'd do anything for, for my family and my friends and I'd spend my last penny on them.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  And I reckon if I asked them, they would say that you were just, you were just there for them.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  Absolutely. Misinterpreted, they would say.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  What do you mean by that?

• 6:58Speaker 00

  Well, you'll see in this documentary that we're bringing out.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  There we go.

• 7:01Speaker 00

  I think, no, I think, like even my kids say that, like, everyone says you're boring, like, where's this come from? I'm like, I know, I know, I, I don't know, I, but I might be. I possibly am. They're like, you what? I don't know. I always trace it back to when I made my name, when I came to the conscience of, of people around the world, was in a World Cup.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 00

  And.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  This is with 98.

• 7:32Speaker 00

  In 98 and you've got the darling of English football, i.e. David Beckham, and you've got this new, young, fresh-faced kid that's just got into the team, that everybody's demanding that should play, et cetera. And obviously one person gets sent off and is, is now the villain.

• 7:47Speaker 01

  What, what happened?

• 7:48Speaker 00

  Well, I've come out of that World Cup and obviously I've scored the goal I've scored and, and now the whole world is, is who's this young kid? And, and certainly everybody in the UK.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  And Beckham's been sent off with the red card.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  Beckham's been sent off. So it's, it's a wonderful thing for the tabloids at the time. Let's make one guy the devil and one guy the angel. And then there's a lovely story. So I was whiter than white. I was smiling. I was scoring great goals. I was the new darling of English football and everybody loved me at the time. And what do you think my agent's going to do? He is going to capitalize and I had brands falling over themselves, but I wouldn't go with anyone that weren't clean cut. This is Michael's image. This is, this is. So I was then, the first time anybody knew about me, I'm just this young, fresh-faced kid that's white than white, that's just scored a great goal and all the, and I've become almost a, a boring,

• 8:41Speaker 00

  straight, blah, blah, whatever words you want to use. And, and the only way I can describe that image that I've currently got is it's just emanated from there. And I've really done nothing to change it and I'm not asked about, you know what I mean? Like my, my kids will say to me, just like, but why do people think you're boring? I was like, I can only think this or the way I come across. I don't know, but they're like, dad, you're the fucking maddest dad in the world. It's like, like you, but how?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  And sitting.

• 9:09Speaker 00

  And all my teammates are the same.

• 9:10Speaker 01

  And sitting with you now and meeting you here, yeah, that is not the impression I get at all.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  All my teammates, I'll go to work tonight. I'm doing the, you know, the game tonight for the Premier League and whoever's on with us, they all laugh at me, you know, and they all laugh at me the way people view me. Still con, still con in the British public, Mo and whatever, whatever, whatever. It's like.

• 9:30Speaker 01

  Does it frustrate you?

• 9:32Speaker 00

  Not, no, I'm not that bothered. I'm not that bothered. I actually find it quite funny because part of the documentary, we've actually, I think they've done a really clever job in saying, you know what? Everybody, let's get the, let's get our cards on the table.

• 9:44Speaker 01

  Let's lean into it.

• 9:45Speaker 00

  Everyone thinks you're boring. Let's open it out with you saying, you know, and then show all your boring bits over the years. So when I was 18 and what, you know, I was getting to do all these things with these brands. Obviously I had such a monotone. I was just a footballer. I didn't know what to do when you put a camera or a microphone.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Why would you?

• 10:03Speaker 00

  So when I'm talking, I'm very much like monotone and, and it's like, oh my God, he is so boring. So that has all just stuck. So we actually get those clips out and just show how boring I was. And then we go into the show, which probably shows me in my natural envi, well, it does, in my natural environment with my kids and doing the things I do.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  How do you handle, I can't, the documentary, I can't, I, I cannot wait for it. It's on Amazon Prime.

• 10:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:28Speaker 01

  How do you handle the, when you're that young and you just play football, right? That's what you do and you're, and what I'm finding, your, your dad Terry was your coach from six years old. He was a pro, but he played for Everton.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 01

  And he wanted to give you that life that he sort of didn't quite reach, right? He wanted to sort of make you into this footballer, I sort of imagine, right? And so you achieve it and you're 18 years old. As you said, you're the sweetheart of England. How do you handle that attention, that fame, the tabloids, everything at that age?

• 11:00Speaker 00

  It's it's hard to say what I did and what I didn't do. I I just was myself.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  You know, what what do you do? You just the only sanctuary really is when you step across a white line. And then you, you know, then that's my office. I'm totally at ease on a football pitch. It's the off the field things that change your life. It's the way people act with you or talk to you and the change in their behaviour towards you. It's like. I'm still a normal.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  I'm just bloody good at football. I'm not I'm not I'm not an alien all of a sudden. Why are you? You know, your your mates would be sort of almost te like.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  They they can they can.

• 11:40Speaker 00

  It's really strange.

• 11:41Speaker 01

  They became almost a bit nervous around you.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  Absolutely. You've known me for eighteen years and all of a sudden, just because of a a happening or what's happened over the last year. Then you treat me. It's not me changing. It's people that that. No, don't get me wrong. Fame, fortune changes a lot of people and and and I get that and I accept that. But I I found a lot of it was I was still doing exactly the same things. I was coming home, going down to the snooker club with my dad and, you know, and and doing all the same things that I'd always done. But. But the football pitch was where I just felt at home and and comfortable and cool and everything else.

• 12:19Speaker 01

  How was your co- how did you have so much confidence? I'm going to run you through some of your stats. Cats for England eighty nine, goals for England forty, career goals hundred and sixty three.

• 12:27Speaker 00

  Hundred and sixty three what? That was just for Liverpool surely.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  Hundred and fifty in the prem, so I've definitely scored more than that.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Helen, Helen.

• 12:37Speaker 00

  Helen.

• 12:38Speaker 01

  No, Helen.

• 12:39Speaker 00

  I mean, if if you'd said two hundred and four, I would have let it slip, but because it might have been a few more than.

• 12:43Speaker 01

  And he's not competitive, which is good. Here we go. We've got better stats.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Two sixty to two sixty three.

• 12:55Speaker 00

  What's what like? What's wrong with that? That was my. Just because of the team. That's a little bit. There's a lot of nice Stoke fans, you know. That that goal for Stoke was my hundred and fiftieth in the Premier League.

• 13:07Speaker 01

  God, you remember.

• 13:07Speaker 00

  Alone. Yeah. So Helen.

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, Helen. But but you know, England's youngest player of the twentieth century signed for Liverpool senior team at seventeen and Ballon d'Or at twenty one. Man, that is to achieve that much at such a young age is crazy. Twenty one years old. I didn't know who I was, what I was doing, if I was turning left or right. I was. Figuring life out. You're thrown into this environment where you're young, you're great at football and you're winning these things and you have to start. You have to start making adult decisions and handling finances and everything. That's a lot to deal with.

• 13:39Speaker 00

  And if I said to you, I think I was past my best at twenty one and nearly shot the bits, then it's mad, isn't it?

• 13:45Speaker 01

  You won't.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Well, I what? I mean, all of my you look at every single thing I achieved in my life, or my footballing career, I should say. They were all in the first third of my career. I was gone at that. I was like snapped hamstring, did my knee, I did. I I was gone by then. If I if I hadn't have got injured and I could have just replicated, forget getting better. If I just stayed the same as I was from seventeen to twenty one and you just times that by three, let's say you you you know, you can have a twelve year career or whatever, fifteen year career. Well, then I dread to think what I could have achieved then. But I achieved all that in the first four, five years of my career and then. I was a fraction of the player for the rest.

• 14:29Speaker 01

  Can you explain that to me? Because, you know, you there there's a sort of saying, which is where you have. Athletes or typically they sort of you you run out your legs. You you you've played because what we what we see is the public, right? We see a footballer start for Liverpool, seventeen years old, and we we think, oh, that's the start of his career. You've been playing since you're six years old.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:50Speaker 01

  And we don't, we forget that.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:52Speaker 01

  We think that's where you're starting.

• 14:53Speaker 00

  Absolutely.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  So what happens to you, your body, your mind, when you're playing that much? Explain that to someone.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  Well, it all is a is a lovely progression and and mine was a lovely progression. But. If you look at, I mean, it's easy and I'm not trying to compare myself to these people, but it's easier if you talk about. People that are absolutely in the limelight because people know about them more. But if you look at at great players like a a Gazza. For example, very similar, you know, an unbelievable start to his career. You look at R nine. I mean, for the first five years of his career, or it might have been six, seven, eight years of his. Apps incre- I played with him at Madrid when he was at the end of his career. He couldn't, he could hardly bend his knee.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  What?

• 15:34Speaker 00

  I mean, he he had so many bad problems. But I would say that R nine is the greatest player that's ever set foot on this planet. And if you could just replicate what he did, if he had just stayed the same and not got injured, we would be talking, I mean, George Best. George Best only played till he was like he was a baby when he retired. But going back to your question. For the first three, four, five years of my career, that was Michael Owen. If you want to watch the back eight years of my career, then I well, I'd I'd I'd hope that you wouldn't. I'd hope that you'd let me off and sort of realise that you get big injuries in your career, you get big problems like that.

• 16:15Speaker 00

  And my body was my big problem. It let me down. Then you can't sustain it. This is the hardest sport in the world to stay at the top. It's. Everyone wants to do it. Every youngster chomping at your heels, wanting your place in the team. It's a and I couldn't sustain it because my body let me down.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Just quickly, quick tangent. You think R nine is better than Messi?

• 16:34Speaker 00

  Yeah. But you but if you say to me, who's the best player of all time? I'd say, well, Messi. He's done it for years and years and years and years. Ronaldo, you ask, you go and ask Sir Alex Ferguson or Mourinho or anyone. They they will all say R nine. I'm pretty sure sure of it. He was a freak, like a freak. Did you see him? Did you see him?

• 16:57Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  I he he was like nothing we've ever seen. Everyone will say the same. I saw an interview with Mourinho the other the other day and they were saying, who's the best, greatest player all all the time? And he was just like, R nine. But it was only for a few years.

• 17:13Speaker 01

  Few years.

• 17:13Speaker 00

  And so you so when you're judging who's the best player ever, like what what's the, how are you judging it? Longevity has to come into it, I guess. So that's why Messi, Portuguese Ronaldo, they will probably go stand head and shoulders above.

• 17:28Speaker 01

  How can someone like Messi, Ronaldo, these players play until they're nearly forty?

• 17:32Speaker 00

  It's beyond me. I couldn't do it. I mean, I snapped my hamstring in two at nineteen, let alone at thirty nine.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, like I was born to play football and all, but I was always born to get injured as well. I mean, my dad was a. An injury prone player. All my brothers and sisters are all electrifyingly quick, but all of them pulled muscles. It's a it's a fam- it's it's genetic.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  Family thing.

• 17:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:58Speaker 01

  Because I I suppose that's the um. How do I how do I describe? Let's start out from a personal point of view. I I always talk about like my failures in life, right? Like, and I think, what are my failures? Never seen this failures, but things that changed my life. When I was eighteen years old, right, I I always got injured as well. I played rugby, wanted to go pro, I caught the ball, ran ran across the pitch. Someone tackled me and my ACL ligament went. And I was quick. I was fast. Maybe not your pace, but I was fast. I would love to run a hundred meter race against you. I think I'd have you.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  You'd definitely beat me now.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  I would definitely. I think, listen, eighteen year old Jamie versus eighteen year old Michael, I'd have you. And in the.

• 18:35Speaker 00

  What's in that war? I when I came in, there was a fridge with the vodkas and I did debate having one, but you've obviously been on them.

• 18:44Speaker 01

  Um, but I remember my knee going and I remember lying on the ground. And I was in Italy at the time on tour. And I remember grabbing my knee and going, and I remember saying, my season's gone. That's my season gone. It was the beginning of the season. My season's gone. My season's gone. And I never played rugby again after that.

• 19:00Speaker 00

  Yeah, you should have been thinking my career's gone. It's a nightmare.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  And I remember.

• 19:04Speaker 00

  And the worst thing is when it's your knee like that, so it's a it's a challenge. It's like. That's luck, isn't it? That's just bad luck. You know, and and my injuries, what started my injuries was not necessarily. Well, it is bad luck if you get injured, I suppose, but mine was a conditioning type of thing, you know, or or or a body makeup type of thing. I I was running. No, no one was near me when I snapped my hamstring in two. So it's. A fundamental problem with with the way I was made. And I never had an injury all my life. And as you said, I've been playing. Five guy, five games a week since I was six years old. I like I've played thousands and thousands and that, never missed a game and then bump.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  But it was two thousand and six World Cup playing against Sweden.

• 19:49Speaker 00

  When I did my knee, yeah.

• 19:50Speaker 01

  You you did your knee and I remember watching it. You went down.

• 19:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  What are you thinking when something like that happens? You're on the main stage on a pitch and you can feel your knee's gone.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  Well, the initial thought is that's my World Cup gone. So you're so sad that you just, you know, this is a huge tournament, obviously, and it's like out the tournament. And then sort of that settles down after about 10 minutes, you start coming around and then you think, oh no. This is gonna be like, how long, Doc, how long are these, if it's a crucial, how long, it's like, hmm, seven months, maybe, whatever. It's like, right, oh god, that's next season as well. Oh my god, so tournament, it's season. Right, any sort of problems after, well, need a good surgery and the rehab needs to go well, and hopefully you just get back as good as you left the pit. So that's not even a guarantee. You can't come back strong. Everyone gets injured and say, oh, I'll come back stronger.

• 20:42Speaker 01

  You can't.

• 20:42Speaker 00

  You're, you're ripping apart your body in two. If it rebuilds and goes perfectly, you can possibly get back to the, you're not gonna come back better. But you've got to convince yourself you're gonna, otherwise you might just retire there and then. So yeah, it's, it's, it's the worst thing that can happen in, in football, you know.

• 21:02Speaker 01

  And you know, you, you were known for your pace and your skill, but your pace was everything and that, that ultimately takes you down a notch or two. And can I say, what does it do mentally to you as an athlete? When your body starts to let you down, when you have an injury like that, mentally, where do you go?

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Well, a mental anguish and, and a, and a, not depressing, I didn't have, but it's so depressing to think that you're never gonna be the same player again. The mental side is one thing, the physi, like, I was an instinct player, so you get the ball now and I think, let's say you're Steven Gerrard or Paul Scholes, I know that you've just, you're on my wavelength, you get the ball, I don't need to think, I'm sprinting, I'm making a diagonal run, I'm staying on side, blow, whatever I'm doing. But that's my, that's how I used to hurt people, sprinting over the top, being, you know, using my pace. But when now you get the ball, and I've had multiple hamstring injuries, and I know that if I turn and sprint now, I'm gonna pull my hamstring.

• 21:57Speaker 00

  You're now having to think instead of react to instinct. So all I became in the second half of my career was a, what, what can I do? What were my strengths? I could, obviously after getting injured, I could finish, I was cold in front of, of goal, and I could, and as I say, I had pace. Never linking the play up was a strength that I didn't need to. That was the, that was the most potent weapon of all. So why am I gonna do something that, you know, is not gonna hurt defence? So when that injury came and when I could no longer sprint, I had to try to change my game and try to do something that would be effective. So all I did was try to link play and get in the box.

• 22:39Speaker 00

  And just become basically a goal scorer. So there's a generation of people that watch me play that thinks, Michael Owen was a bloody good finisher, but that's all he was, he was just a finisher. And that would be my, the, the biggest dagger to my heart because obviously you watched me at 18, it was one of the things that I was very good at. At the end of my career, I was only a finisher. I could give no more. I couldn't sprint. I was average at linking the play up anyway, because it wasn't what I used to do and wasn't the, you know, the, what I homed as my, you know, as one of my USPs, let's say. And all I could do was finish. That was the only thing I was good at anymore. So I used to just

• 23:20Speaker 00

  basically become a goal hanger and score goals with the, if the, if the ball dropped to me. And that's just not what I was, and that's why it was quite a depressing end to my career.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, 33 when you retired from football. Just feel like that's so young.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  I know, but I, and I wish it was years before.

• 23:34Speaker 01

  Really?

• 23:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I hate, I didn't hate it. The problem was, I would still score the odd goal and it's like, oh my, I can still do it. But then, you know, the, the next few weeks, it's, oh, yeah, I didn't, it was a job.

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Cause I remember when you went to, you went to United and you got the number seven number, which Cantona had and Beckham had and.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  I took it off Ronaldo.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  You took it off Ronaldo, right? And I remember your debut, you scored the winning goal, did you not?

• 24:01Speaker 00

  It was about, it was earlier, it was about the third game of the season against City. Yeah, yeah.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  You know, and so those little moments.

• 24:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, I could still produce.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  You could still produce. And you, and you were like, there and back, here we go.

• 24:12Speaker 00

  Exactly. But, but that type of finish, that was absolutely what I could do. I didn't have to sprint. I had to show a little bit of cunning, a little bit of movement, a little bit of this, a little bit of great touch, cold under pressure. Biggest mo, 97th minute or something. And you feel the crowd going like that. And you've got to do opposite to everyone. You've got to go cold and calm and relax, focus, concentrate, great touch, bump, bump. You know, you've got to go through that process.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Get out of here. That's what you, that's what you, so you can feel the emotion of the crowd. They, you can feel them all rising out of the seats, you feel those seats go up in the stadium, and you just have to laser and focus, here we go. Yeah.

• 24:54Speaker 00

  That's why, that's why there are no goal scorers about. You're go, you're doing something that is totally the opposite to nature and to what we are. If you think about watching a game of football, the closer you get to the box, the more you see an opportunity coming, the more you tense up, the more, you, you might stand out of your seat, you might, and you take a breath or your heart rate go, or all of these things, you're getting excited, you're, and I'm, I'm doing the same. I'm smelling a chance is about to come. When that ball drops out the sky, I'm thinking, come on, Giggsy, good touch, I'm in here. Back away, I'm going through all these things. And as much as I'm getting excited and I'm, my, my attention is sharpening,

• 25:40Speaker 00

  I've then got to click into cold mode type of thing. It goes totally against what everybody else. And what I would naturally do, if I'm watching a game now, I'd get excited when, but when you're in that situation, you just, it, it's, and to have the ability to go the opposite way to what nature says is, is a very rare thing. And that's why there's not many finishers about.

• 26:01Speaker 01

  What is it like scoring a goal, especially for England? What does it feel like, maybe scoring your first one in front of a crowd, putting on that shirt?

• 26:09Speaker 00

  They, it changed, it changes. If, if you're in a friendly and it's the fourth and a 4-0 win, it's, it's fine, it's great, it's all right.

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:17Speaker 00

  But the good ones are the good ones. You know, a World, a World Cup or a 97th minute winner or FA Cup fight, scoring two goals in the last five minutes of an FA Cup final when you're 1-0 down against the invincibles is pretty smart.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  You're 18 years old, you're a prodigy, you're this, this, this kid who's just come up through Liverpool, played for senior team when you're 17 years old. You get called to the World Cup, you're 18 years old, and you come into it. And I remember sitting on the ground, watching the 98 World Cup, England versus Argentina, and you scoring that goal.

• 26:50Speaker 00

  You look so young, you can't be, can't be that old.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I, I love that's what you're thinking as I was getting really into this, 37.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 26:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Well done, you're looking good.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Thanks very much, don't worry about it. But I remember sitting, sitting, watching you and I remember being like, we, I, I would have been eight years old, you were 18. And you scored this goal where you take it, round the defender, you go to the right and you score it, top left. For me, like, there are, there are a couple of goals, I think, that I remember in my life. One is yours and one is the Beckham free kick against Greece.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  Right.

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Those are the two ones. For you, do you remember that moment, scoring that goal?

• 27:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. I, I do remember it. It felt all very natural at the time, of course, it's.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  I love that you just go through the pace of it, you just think, yeah, it's just, it was just normal.

• 27:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's what I did. It's like, it's just what I was trained to do, what I was born to do. And what I did do all the time is, not like it was a fluke, I was doing it every week, you know, not, I mean, obviously not the exact same goal, but it was just what you do. I always find it fascinating, people's reaction to it, because I, like, if I throw it back on your toes or throw it back on any other professional's toes and say, well, how do you, you know, a brain surgeon, how on earth do you wake up and, and you know, are you not nervous? You're about to change somebody's life or save someone or, or whatever. And then you think, well, the night before, did you have a few drinks or did you, did you go, well, of course, they're just normal people that do an extraordinary thing.

• 28:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I tell you what it is. The difference is, is it's doing an extraordinary, extraordinary thing amongst extraordinary people. So it's when you, it's when an extraordinary things happen in extraordinary circumstances. So when something's already extraordinary, you've got the best of the best of the best, playing against each other. And then an individual does something even more extraordinary. That's what's special about it. It's when that little 1% or the 2% separates you from the rest. You go, wow. That's, that's a moment.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get that. But somebody's got to do it, somebody will do it. And why isn't it you or me or, or whatever? I just, I, I, listen, the moment's not lost on me, what, and, and my age and, and the audacity and the cheek, or whatever the words you want to use. How, how that outcome can eventually play out like that. I get it. I get it more now than ever, but it's not surpris, I, I, I don't find it surprising. That, that's just what I did. There's a skill in everything.

• 29:29Speaker 01

  You just did it.

• 29:30Speaker 00

  I just did it. It's not like I took a potion before the game. It's not like I went and saw a psychologist, but that was just me then. I did the same like a couple of years earlier against Scotland for, as a, as a kid. And then, you know, scored dozens and dozens and dozens in the meantime. It's, it, it's, it wasn't, what, how people talk about is almost like it was this out of body thing and you did this mad thing on one again. It really wasn't.

• 29:58Speaker 01

  So do you think if you spoke to Maradona about his goal, he would say the same thing?

• 30:01Speaker 00

  Absolutely. It wasn't a fluke. He does it every day in training, I'm sure. He scored loads of goals like that. It was just happened that there was more eyes watching on that game. It was just a big game. And you know what? Some people haven't got the arse to do it on the big games. That's, that's the point. Most people shit themselves. And some people actually get a little bit better, because.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  Cause they like it.

• 30:22Speaker 00

  Their show-offs.

• 30:22Speaker 01

  They, they like it.

• 30:23Speaker 00

  And they love pressure and they, yeah.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Which camp were you in? Were you a bit of a show-off?

• 30:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, this goes back to what my kids think. Oh, I can't do anything without being the best. Oh, yeah.

• 30:35Speaker 01

  So what is your moment, your proudest moment on the pitch, right? That still gives you, now if you think about it, gives you goosebumps for you?

• 30:41Speaker 00

  FA Cup final. Liverpool two, Arsenal one. Like nowadays, the Champions League, the Premier League, I get it, it's massive and people probably look down at the cup competition. But when I was young, the FA Cup final was the biggest game of the calendar. Winning the FA Cup was everything. It's all I wanted to do. And we were playing against the invincible era of Arsenal with the Henrys and the Vieiras and all these great players. And, uh, and we got battered for eighty seven minutes. And I just remember, you know, the royalty, the national anthem, the heat, they're just, everything that you dreamt of, putting a suit on before the game, you know, watching the, watching your heroes coming down, the cameras were allowed on the coaches back then and

• 31:26Speaker 00

  all of that, and then to go and play in one and just to go.

• 31:31Speaker 00

  I almost liken it to a fight like Muhammad Ali against George Foreman, Rumble in the Jungle, when he just gets battered and battered and battered, even throw a punch, that was us. And then all of a sudden, bum, bum, bum, and it's over. I just, you know, in the last five minutes, scored two goals and it, it killed Arsenal, obviously. That, the feeling of that winning, but feelings of you played a massive part in winning and the happiness of people and just, oh, dreams come true. Yeah, that was the, that was the day. If I could have lived one more, one day again, wouldn't be the birth of my kids.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 32:03Speaker 00

  Nah, sod that.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Cause I was gonna say, proudest moment off the pitch, you're like, nah, I can't really think about that.

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• 34:15Speaker 01

  You know, watching you, admiring you, you were just the biggest inspiration to so many people, especially my age, to sit opposite you now is a real kind of pinch me moment.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  That's very kind of you to say so, thank you.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  Do you get that a lot? Do people say that a lot to you?

• 34:28Speaker 00

  Uh, becoming less and less, only the older people. Show your age when you say you remember me playing, see. Yeah, listen, the younger generation obviously have no idea who I am nowadays. They all prefer my daughter or, or point to my daughter and say, she's famous over there. I'm like, what about me? What about me? But, uh, no, older generation still reminisce nicely.

• 34:49Speaker 01

  That's strange, so, cause someone was saying today that, do, do people know you as Gemma's dad?

• 34:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:57Speaker 01

  Or as Michael Owen? Which is kind of wild, right? Knowing your career, that there's this generational, some people know you and some people don't.

• 35:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's happened multiple times where people have pointed at me and I thought, oh, they recognize me and they said, I'm sure that's that Gemma Owen's dad over there. So it has happened, I can't deny, and I hate it.

• 35:17Speaker 01

  You know, I, I've just become a dad, right? And I talk about this a lot. And my baby's eight months old now, so I'm kind of in the trenches with it all, but...

• 35:25Speaker 00

  It's the worst, isn't it? That age, ah, I could never go back. I don't know how we, I don't know how my missus did it.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  And he's been like sick for like three days straight.

• 35:35Speaker 00

  They're just a nightmare.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  It's a nightmare.

• 35:36Speaker 00

  It's the worst. Anybody that thinks being a parent is, is, is the worst first year of your life, isn't it?

• 35:44Speaker 01

  You've got four kids.

• 35:45Speaker 00

  I know. We had four, I mean, we had our first, we were both twenty-three and I think we had our fourth by the time we were thirty. So we had sort of, Gemma was seven and we had four kids, or eight and we had four kids. I mean, how my missus did it? My only advice is they do get better when they become proper people, but for a father, it's hard, especially in the first, I think for a mother, it's bloody hard.

• 36:07Speaker 01

  It's, you know, and I look at my wife Sophie and I just, I admire everything, like with your wife Louise, you just go, how? It's just...

• 36:14Speaker 00

  It's so much effort. I found it's so much effort. You know, if you, if you gave me my daughter or my son for an hour, that hour, I just cannot, it's just, whereas my missus just floats through the day and like automatically looks after them, they're fine. When I hold, it feels like I've got to bounce them for an hour and I've got to do this for an hour, and it's just so stressful.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  And every moment you think they're about to die.

• 36:40Speaker 00

  I'm just, exactly. I'm just such not a natural, um, looker after a baby, geez.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  But, but my point was, is that how do you, as a parent, how do you make sure that you give your kids the width to allow them to do what they want to do? But also have that fence to make sure that they don't go too far? Because, you know, with, like your kids, allowing them to do certain things, whether it's going on a TV show or whatever, you have to allow them to make their own mistakes, right?

• 37:09Speaker 00

  You do, but, but if you're very confident in what you've done in the early years of their life and how you've brought them up, then it's not a worry anyway. Do all the hard yards early, get the right foundations, the right principles into them, and you'll never look back.

• 37:24Speaker 01

  So what was your dad Terry like growing, what was he like to you then growing up? What principles did he give you?

• 37:29Speaker 00

  My dad never shouted at me once in my life. I can't remember him shouting, it was my mum that used to always nag us and shout at us. But I had this strange with my dad, even though he never shouted at me, I was sort of petrified of disappointing him. He had this spell on me and I always just wanted to please him, always. Whether it was playing football, whether it's just behaving, whether it was my school results, you know, he never once looked at my papers and said, well, you only got a C in that, you only got a D in, or what that. But I knew he was looking at them and I knew he'd have thoughts about it, so I was petrified of him being disappointed in me.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Well, because you wanted to make him proud?

• 38:07Speaker 00

  Yes, absolutely, absolutely. I think you've always got to have, in my opinion, two or three people in your life that it matters, it really matters what those people think.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Man, I think you're so right. I think having heroes is really important.

• 38:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 38:21Speaker 01

  People that you look up to and that you aspire to be, because then if you have those people in your life and you really look up to them, it sets you on that track day or north star.

• 38:30Speaker 00

  Absolutely, they, exactly that. And that's what I had, I, I, as it was, obviously I was a budding young footballer. So people that were in the game of football meant even more to me. So gaining their approval was really important. So the youth development officer, who was an ex Liverpool player, Steve Highway, he was somebody that if he looked at me, I'd melt, you know? If I did something good and I saw a little twinkle in his eye, thinking, oh, that Michael Owen did well, that I would be like, oh. And my dad, those two people in my life, and as much as I adored my mum and respected my mum and adored loads of people and my teachers and whatever, and be respectful to so many people, there were two people that I did not want to disappoint ever.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  You know what, I, I, I used to play rugby and I played a bit of football and I, but I then, when I changed school, I started playing rugby, but I was a big sportsman, right? And wanted to go professional, wanted to go down that road. And I remember my coach, shout out Mr. Greed, his name was, he was incredible, but I still remember running down the touchline and scoring a try. And at the end of the game, he came out, he never said this, but he came out and he said, you played well today.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 39:41Speaker 01

  And still to this day.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  It's unbelievable, isn't it?

• 39:45Speaker 01

  Still to this day, probably one of the proudest moments of my life.

• 39:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, it is.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Right, it's, it's crazy.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  I know.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  I don't know what it is. Like, I don't know why making someone that you admire, that you respect, that you aspire to, someone like that proud, it sticks with you.

• 40:01Speaker 00

  And also, I'm, I'm all for these people that pat you on the backside and say, well done every day and how much they love you and how much they do that. But when you never say it, and then you say it once, it means something so much more. Steve Highway, my coach as a, as a youngster, he never used to tell me, well done, he never used to say I'm a good player or anything, but when there was fifteen kids in the group and he wanted to teach us all a new skill and said, right, guys, this is what I want, all go away and practice this one. And he said, Michael, come and show us that, just an act as opposed to a, well done, Michael, you're great, but just to say, he's gonna show you in front of all the fifteen, it just, you know, those little triggers, those little, it just makes you think, oh yeah, he does like me actually.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  What was the moment for you that you knew you made your dad proud?

• 40:50Speaker 00

  Didn't always have to be football, actually, that was the easy bit, the football. And there was never a, I always felt that... My dad's so proud of all of them, and it sounds really corny, but I'm one of five. He is really proud of the kids in general. He's got a lot of faults, but he certainly knows how to make you feel great. And I think, I'm always the same now. Listen, one of my, the best things I do is if I get a day off at home or whatever, once or twice a week, I'll pop my dad a message and we go down the pub together.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 41:22Speaker 00

  And to this day, my dad's seventy six now, to this day, I leave that pub later on and go to, you know, go home thinking, was he proud of me today? Not that, it's not something that I'm trying to, but do you know what I mean? It's like even to this day, I think, did I swear in front of him? He might, he might have been a bit disappointed with, or did I do that? Or did I do that was the conversation? And actually, I always go home and think, you know, spending that time with your dad, quality time in the pub, we both love, you know, we both feel comfortable in our local, et cetera. But even to this day, I still have that tingling in my stomach that, oh dad, yeah, dad's proud of me. And occasionally he'll say, you know, these trips down to the pub that we, you know, they mean so much or whatever.

• 42:07Speaker 00

  And you know, just that, that odd thing, but, and I don't mean them to me. I don't do it for anything other than I want to be with him. Do you know what I want? I want to spend a couple of hours, um, you know, every, every few days with him.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  You know, I sent my dad a message because I, I sent a message when, maybe this is like six years ago, right? And it was after a conversation I had and I sent him a message just because I think I'd, you know, grown up, parents divorced, all this kind of stuff. And my dad is the most incredible person, but I felt, maybe felt that I hadn't said things to him that I wanted to. And I couldn't do it really face to face. So I sent him a message, maybe seven years ago or six years ago, just saying, just want you to know you're, you're the best dad I could ever ask for. And the reply that I got back was just like, you've never known how proud I am of you. Oh, Matt, it's still to this day, even if I think about it now, oh my God, it like, something about that father-son relationship is just.

• 43:00Speaker 00

  How come you, you couldn't say it to him, to his face? I'm the same, I, I wouldn't have the bottle to do it. And then I'll probably regret it when he's gone, but no, I'm the same. It's easier to message, isn't it?

• 43:10Speaker 01

  Why don't we say?

• 43:11Speaker 00

  But at least you said it, you know, regardless of whether you, well, that's why I ask, because I couldn't say it either.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  I can't say it.

• 43:17Speaker 00

  I can't even, I can't say it to anyone.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, but why? I don't know why we can't do that.

• 43:21Speaker 00

  Is it a masculine thing or? I like never, ever tell my kids I love them, but they're the most dearest things in the world, the most precious things in the, I don't say anything like that. I just assume that my actions would show them that I love them, but it's a bad thing.

• 43:37Speaker 01

  But do you think, what do you think that is because of? Because I had that.

• 43:40Speaker 00

  I think most of us are like that.

• 43:42Speaker 01

  But it's not a good thing, it's not a healthy thing. It means that we don't, we're not, I'm definitely trying to be more vulnerable, more open, more emotional. I, this is.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  If you say it all the time, does it mean anything?

• 43:52Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  You know, kissing your kid and sending them to school and, oh, well done. And no matter what they do, you just keep saying, well done and oh, you're, and if they do rubbish, oh, you're trying awfully hard. And I, no, I, I like tough love and, and I'm not trying, trying to condone the way, because I would love to be a little bit soft. I think it comes with age as well.

• 44:11Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 44:11Speaker 00

  I think the older you get, the, the more you reminisce, the more you, probably your days are numbered. But you know, all of these things, I think, I think you get better when you're, when you're older. You've probably got time to think a bit more and you realise what mean, you know, what the true meaning of, of things are. I, I don't know. I'm definitely getting softer, but still not soft enough to say something like that.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  You played in Madrid with the likes of Zidane, R9, these, Raul, these incredible players, right? Then you moved back and you went to Newcastle. And you have said that was a big regret of your career.

• 44:48Speaker 00

  Well, a regret because I wanted to go to Liverpool and it was close to Liverpool and we had agreed everything with Liverpool. And then Newcastle basically came in from left field that no one knew about and offered twice as much money to Real Madrid. And all of a sudden put Liverpool out the picture in terms of Madrid. We're like, well, we're not going to sell you now to Liverpool and they're offering eight million and they're offering sixteen. So if Liverpool matched the bid, absolutely you can go to Liverpool. I'm like, no, I'm not going to New, I'm going, you know, and they're like, well, you'll stay here then, that's fine. We want you here, like, we don't want to say it's fine. I'm like, oh my God, everything's sorted with Liverpool, I'm going back to my club, you know, I, because I never really wanted to leave, but I wanted to go and experience. I just thought, let's go for a year or two and then come back.

• 45:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:31Speaker 00

  And that's what we sort of had to handle, a gentleman's handshake. But Newcastle just came in from left field without anybody knowing and just, it was obviously their only chance of getting me because if they had offered what Liverpool were offering, then I was always going to go there. But, so they basically backed Madrid, well, backed Liverpool into a corner, me into it. And then I had a choice. Liverpool was off the table unless I played hardball, but I knew they wouldn't sell me for eight million. Um, so eventually I agreed. My wife wanted to come home. It was the end of a season was the World Cup. I thought I've got to be playing all the time, bit nervous about some of the players that he's brought in and might not start every game, et cetera.

• 46:13Speaker 00

  So I thought, so the decision was made, sign for Newcastle, but you can have it in your contract. They agreed and I said, the only way I'll sign is if I can move to Liverpool, you know, for a set fee at the end of that season. So that was the sort of the compromise of going to Newcastle. And as it happened, we all know I did my knee at the end of the year, et cetera, et cetera. And, and that played out. That makes it sound very disrespectful to Newcastle.

• 46:38Speaker 01

  No, it doesn't, it doesn't at all.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  I don't want it to and I, but that's the God's honest truth, you know, and if it, and if it does, then that's, you know.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  It doesn't.

• 46:46Speaker 00

  I'm a, I played for, I came through the academy, you know, Newcastle fans would expect Alan Shearer to be saying exactly the same as what I'm saying about Liverpool. Do you know, that's just, that's, I've got a passion for Liverpool, you know, they, they were my team.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Football's so great. It's, it runs in your blood.

• 47:00Speaker 00

  Absolutely. And Newcastle were absolutely my second choice. I've got no, you know, no problems. I wanted to go back to Liverpool.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  With your wife Louise and your kids, they're moving around the place the whole time. That must be tough for family as well, right? That you're moving, you're going to Liverpool, then Madrid, then Newcastle. So that's, you forget that, you, you look at you and you go, you're the, it's you, but actually you've got this whole family as well.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, listen, you, absolutely, that is a, that is a, something to consider when you're, when that's your career. But I'm not the only person and I'm not, it's not the only career. And obviously people aren't going to have their violins listening to me saying, I, I had to live in Madrid. I had to live in Newcastle. I mean, lovely city, lovely places, lovely people. So, uh, so I, I couldn't, but yeah, you're right. We're, we are a, love our family, love our roots, love our area. So it isn't easy when you're moving, but, but it is part of the game. And, and, um, yeah, Louise did it, came to Madrid, struggled, um, went to Newcastle. But then Gemma was of an age where she needs to start school, so she moved back.

• 48:04Speaker 00

  So I moved my dad up to Newcastle and, and we lived up there for a couple of years together.

• 48:08Speaker 01

  You know, you've been, you've known your wife since primary school. It's unbelievable. What do you think the secret is to a happy marriage?

• 48:17Speaker 00

  Oh. Wow. Um, well, it's never all plain sailing, is it?

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Never.

• 48:23Speaker 00

  Um, everybody will have their, their ups and downs. Um, and possibly somebody like me more than most that has actually only ever known one person in my life. Um, lots of people get lots of things out their system by the time, whether that's girls or drinking or drugs or whatever they want to do in their life, they get it all out their system. And then they tend to sort of mature a little bit and settle down or whatever. I'm not generalising, but it's, you know, that can happen in life.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  Hundred percent.

• 48:53Speaker 00

  Whereas I was virtually married at seventeen, you know, I've, do you know what I mean? I've been with my, with Louise for, for ever really, and then don't know anything else.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  And then dad at twenty-three.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Which is so young.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, but we were really lucky to be in a position financially and such a stable, uh, relationship whereby there was nothing stopping us. And I always wanted to be a, a youngish dad as well. Mainly because I wanted to win the sports day, dad's races. I could think of nothing worse than losing those. So that was the main reason for having kids young.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  But listen, I'm going to fuck up those other dads.

• 49:32Speaker 00

  That's exactly what I thought.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  I can't wait to do it. But what do you think, do you think it's Louise that kept you grounded? Do you think it's that family roots, that knowing who you are, that like, because you're so family oriented? And this is what I'm so excited for the show that's coming out, right? To, to see you and your family together. I, I, I sometimes feel like we, we, for whatever reason, maybe it's social media bring us away from what's important. The most important thing in life is family. So I'm excited for your show because it feels like it's going to be this solid, amazing show about family and life and what it's like.

• 50:04Speaker 00

  And I totally agree. And I actually think that, we think it's normal in our house. I mean, my, you know, I'm one of five, as I said, my, my brothers and sisters and my mum and dad all live in one street. You know, I bought them all a house when I was nineteen, twenty, and that's not to say, oh, well done, Michael, and give me a, it's not, it wasn't meant to be, but it's, it's more to the point that I've, I've been brought up in this fam, I don't know any different. And you're right, when you start looking around and you, you think, wow, this, I thought this was the norm. You know, I thought doing everything together as a family and, and, you know, whatever it might be, like, family was the only thing in my life.

• 50:46Speaker 00

  And if, if you were a friend and you could penetrate into our family, then actually that's, you know, you're part of our family as well type of thing. Um, and the same with my kids, like, my kids all live at homes to where I could think of nothing worse than all, but obviously they will leave and do their own thing. But I see it as normal, but I think when people watch our show, they'll think, bloody hell, that's a, a strong and totally normal, natural. Um, people will be their own judge of that, but you're right.

• 51:17Speaker 01

  What do you think viewers will see? What do you think that you're going to expect from the show? What do you want people to take from it? Because I can't frigging wait.

• 51:24Speaker 00

  No, to be honest, I can't wait. I can't wait for people, and it's strange, isn't it? Because most people are quite private. Why, how the hell would you want cameras in your living room and things like that? But we've actually really enjoyed it. And Gemma's always been in the public eye, I've always been there. It's, it's not a problem to, I'm not that bothered at all, to be honest. And, uh, I hope people, I hope people like the family. Of course I do. I mean, these are my pride and joy. These are people that I've had a, an influence on. You know, bringing up and having the right morals. I think people will possibly be surprised how close we are, but how much we take the piss out of each other and how much we shout at each other. And I think there'll be a little bit of empathy. Obviously, my son is clinically

• 52:08Speaker 00

  blind and all the challenges that James has day to day, that'll be a, I was gonna say an eye opener, that'd be a little bit of a bad pun, wouldn't it?

• 52:17Speaker 01

  Can you just explain that he hasn't, explain his-

• 52:20Speaker 00

  James has got Stargardt's disease, so he was born with a degenerative condition in his, in his eye. His light senses are really poor. So when it's dark, he sees a little bit better, light, reflections and all the rest of it. But white, coloured white is a nightmare, can't see any contours. If he goes skiing, he will literally hit a mogul and probably break his neck within two minutes. So he needs it quite dark a lot of the time to, for his, not, you know, one for him to see, but two for him not to get headaches and things like that. His peripheral vision is okay, it's quite good, but his central vision is shocking. And you will see, you will see in the doc, like, some of the things

• 53:05Speaker 00

  that he does to, you know, get by in life, which are hilarious. And he laughs at himself. I mean, there's one scene that I just, I'm not, I can't give it away, but things like when he's pouring a drink, he has to stick his finger in, over the thing, you know, just so he knows so it doesn't start overflowing. And I remember, I can't remember if it made the cup, I remember asking him how he wipes his arse then, if that's the case, when he's, if he can't see what's happening, how do you know when to stop wiping? Things like that. I mean, but he just laughs and he takes the piss out of himself all the time. And he is just a dude of a lad.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  When you have a kid, when you have a baby, you, you just, you, you want to make sure that they're as healthy as possible, right? So when something does, like that does happen, and now it's okay, right? Because it's, it's fine, and he's, and we're gonna see how brilliant his life is in every single way, right? But when it first happens, it must be pretty scary.

• 53:57Speaker 00

  Oh, it's shocking, yeah. And you blame yourself for it. But it's only fine now, and you're right, it is fine now.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  Because he's amazing.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 54:05Speaker 00

  And we love, and we, you know, and I look at it and think, you know what? Every time we sit at a restaurant, he's by my side, because I read him the menu and I need to cut his food, because he can't. Whenever we're watching racing, he's by my side, because I'm giving a commentary. Whenever he wants to go, he needs his dad to take him and his taxi driver. I get to spend like, three times more time with my lad, because he's got an eye condition. Now, I might be a selfish bastard, but I think that is, I like, I love it. I wouldn't want it any different. And of course, I would give my eyes to him in an instant, if we could swap. Of course I would. But let's take the positives from, from what, he is so bright, he is almost self-taught, he is just, he doesn't sit back

• 54:49Speaker 00

  and pity himself. In fact, it's quite the opposite. He gets out there and he laughs at himself. He can come to my stables, we've got 135 horses, we've got hundreds and hundreds of clients, and we'll have events all the time. And he will pick up somebody's voice-

• 55:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  And he will walk over, imagine how scary. He will walk over, "Hey Gary, blah, blah, blah." Knows, knows their name, knows their daughter, knows their son, knows their kids, knows the horse name, knows what happened last time they ran, knows his job and her job or whatever.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  Of 135 people. He's just a genius, honestly. And, and if he didn't have this eye, and I always say to him, "Son, your eyes are gonna be better one day." There will be a transplant, there will be-

• 55:35Speaker 01

  Something.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Something that's gonna come out. Imagine, these skills that you've learned, that you've had to push yourself to, you know, be uncomfortable in certain situations. And all these coping mechanisms and all these things, imagine you're gonna be, like, almost have superpowers. And that is something to look forward to. Imagine that, that's gonna happen in-

• 55:55Speaker 01

  He sounds incredible, man.

• 55:56Speaker 00

  -three, four, five years. Something's gonna happen to sort his eyes out. And imagine the mo, that moment, it's gonna be incredible.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  So it's a positive, in my eyes.

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• 57:37Speaker 01

  Give me your, your first team 11, for the people, players you played with and played against.

• 57:46Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. What, combined? Or, or the players I played with?

• 57:48Speaker 01

  Played with and against, starting from keeper, who would you have in your 11?

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Okay, so the best keeper I played with, I'd say is Edwin van der Sar.

• 57:55Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:56Speaker 00

  Casillas was very good, but I think Edwin van der Sar was brilliant.

• 57:58Speaker 01

  Love that.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  Best keeper I played against, Peter Schmeichel. Shall we do them as we go?

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Just do, just do your top 11.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  My top 11 that I played with, right.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  And played against, you can pick both, but just in go.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Oh, right.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  Anyone, basically, basically anyone.

• 58:11Speaker 00

  Okay, so Schmeichel in goal.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  Yes, huge.

• 58:14Speaker 00

  Uh, right back, Cafu. Left back, Roberto Carlos.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Come on.

• 58:22Speaker 00

  Centre backs, this is tricky. Um, I might go English, you know. Rio was an absolute Rolls Royce of a player. John Terry was brilliant as well. Do you know what? I played against, Yap Stan.

• 58:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Marcel Desailly was a monster. Ah. Go on, I'm gonna say Rio and John Terry, they were-

• 58:46Speaker 01

  Really?

• 58:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, they were-

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Over Yap Stan?

• 58:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:50Speaker 01

  Okay, fine, midfield, let's go.

• 58:51Speaker 00

  This gets harder.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Are you, how many are you playing in the midfield?

• 58:54Speaker 00

  Eight, if I can.

• 58:55Speaker 01

  (laughing)

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Zidane, Gerrard.

• 59:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 59:01Speaker 00

  Like, they're the two that just-

• 59:03Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 59:04Speaker 00

  Non-negotiables. What should we play? Four?

• 59:06Speaker 01

  What do you wanna play? You're the manager.

• 59:07Speaker 00

  Let's play 4-3-3.

• 59:08Speaker 01

  Okay, playing 4-3-3, alright.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Give me another midfielder.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Uh, Scholes?

• 59:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, Scholes.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  You could have-

• 59:15Speaker 00

  Figo was good, if you put him central.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  Figo. Oh my god. Did you play against Ronaldinho?

• 59:21Speaker 00

  Oh, sorry, against as well. Sorry, I'm thinking of players I played with. Yeah, sorry, Zidane and Gerrard and, well, if that's the case, then we will go for, let's play, let's play Ronaldinho just as the sort of the 10. Yeah. Um, Ronaldo, obviously.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Uh-huh.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Didn't play against Messi, I was on the bench against Messi in the Champions League final, I didn't get on, so I can't have that, can I?

• 59:46Speaker 01

  You can't have that one, you're not allowed that.

• 59:47Speaker 00

  Okay, right. Sorry, Messi.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  Sorry, Messi.

• 59:49Speaker 00

  Um, well, I'm gonna play someone slightly out of position, but Thierry Henry.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  Great shout.

• 59:55Speaker 00

  And R9 as my centre forward. There was two players in my life when I was growing up, and I thought, I'm, I'm, well, this is when I'm like 13, 14, I was thinking, I'm gonna be a player here.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  I'm good.

• 1:00:08Speaker 00

  I'm pretty good, I'm gonna be, I would think, an international.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:00:12Speaker 00

  I didn't know if I would be like, better than that, like, one of the best players in the, but I thought, I, and then I switched the telly on and I saw R9, and I had to reconsider overnight. And the only other thing, I won the golden boot in my first year-

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:30Speaker 00

  -as a 17-year-old. Golden boot again as an 18-year-old. And then Thierry Henry came to the league, and I took one look at him and thought, I will never, ever win a golden boot again. They were the two players that literally made me think. Everyone else, I felt, yep, I can do what Shearer does, or Rooney does, or Van Nistelrooy, or whoever. I felt as if I, in my own way-

• 1:00:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  -however that might be, I might not be as good as them, but those two players, R9 and Thierry Henry, made me think about my career choice. They were different.

• 1:00:59Speaker 01

  Were you quicker than Henry?

• 1:01:00Speaker 00

  Over how far?

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  10 metres?

• 1:01:03Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  Over 40?

• 1:01:05Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:01:08Speaker 00

  And then I reckon, he might, he'd be getting me at 40, I reckon. I don't think there was anybody that was quicker than me over 20, 30 metres.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  You were electric.

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  But I think there was millions that were quicker than me, over 100. That's why you're-

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Do you know, do you know who was quicker than you? Me?

• 1:01:22Speaker 00

  Over 100 maybe. I will let you have that.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Mike, can I just say, you're a legend, you're an inspiration, just, man, and just, the documentary is like what I, I meet and see that, I cannot wait, that's gonna be electric. And I'm so excited for it. Meet the Owens. Before we go, we have quickfire questions. You ready for this?

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Here we go. What's a saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?

• 1:01:43Speaker 00

  You can't polish a turd.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Funny.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  That's the best saying ever, isn't it? It's so apt in so many ways.

• 1:01:51Speaker 01

  Best compliment anyone's ever given you?

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  That your kids are well-mannered.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  The best. What scares you most about yourself?

• 1:01:58Speaker 00

  Um, how delusional I am.

• 1:02:02Speaker 01

  It's my thing. I, but I, I, I'm so delusional, it's crazy.

• 1:02:06Speaker 00

  I think everything will be perfect and everything's, you know, and just-

• 1:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and everything's possible. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  Exactly. It will, it will bite me in the arse one day.

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  I love that. When was the last time you cried?

• 1:02:15Speaker 00

  Probably when James was diagnosed with Stargardt's disease.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  That's a long time ago, that's 11 years ago.

• 1:02:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should-

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  Don't cry much.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  You should let it out.

• 1:02:28Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  What's something you can't let go of?

• 1:02:30Speaker 00

  Can't let go of?

• 1:02:32Speaker 01

  Could be an injury, it could be a goal, could be-

• 1:02:34Speaker 00

  I suppose, yeah, in the back of my mind.

• 1:02:37Speaker 01

  Injury?

• 1:02:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, what, the what if, the, the what if. I mean, incredibly proud of my career, but I think, yeah, it could have been even better if it wasn't for injury. So yeah, so yeah, the injuries.

• 1:02:51Speaker 01

  What's your guilty pleasure?

• 1:02:53Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, wow. Um, banoffee pie.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  Oh, come on, let's go. Biscuit bottom, right?

• 1:03:02Speaker 00

  Oh, 100%.

• 1:03:03Speaker 01

  100%.

• 1:03:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  I think we're done with that.

• 1:03:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:07Speaker 01

  Biggest turn off?

• 1:03:08Speaker 00

  People that watch films. Virtually everybody on this planet.

• 1:03:12Speaker 01

  Sorry?

• 1:03:13Speaker 00

  I think, I think you're a bit of a weirdo. If you watch films, you're a bit of a weirdo in my book.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  Not that I'm not weird for not watching them.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Are you serious?

• 1:03:22Speaker 00

  Can't watch films. No.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  Can't watch films?

• 1:03:24Speaker 00

  No. What are you doing with your life if you're watching just fakeness?

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  Sorry, 99.999% of the population, but you're all weirdos.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  I love that. Your kids must be like, Dad, just let me watch Toy Story. What's your biggest turn on?

• 1:03:46Speaker 00

  I can't really say.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Could say anything on?

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  I think buying horses. That's my, it's another guilty pleasure of mine, but it shouldn't turn me on. That's like the wrong thing to say.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  When you said it, it made me feel something as well.

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:03Speaker 01

  Felt good then.

• 1:04:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:05Speaker 01

  What do you like most about yourself?

• 1:04:07Speaker 00

  That I can laugh at myself. Yeah. You can take the piss out of me and I'll laugh along with you.

• 1:04:12Speaker 01

  Bonus one. Shag, marry, avoid. Wayne Rooney, Gary Lineker, Alan Shearer.

• 1:04:24Speaker 00

  I'll marry Wazza.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  Lovely, of course.

• 1:04:27Speaker 00

  I certainly won't want to shag him.

• 1:04:30Speaker 00

  No, thank you. Bit too hairy for me. He's so funny. In fact, in fact, I would marry Wazza.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  Would you really?

• 1:04:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I would. He is such a good laugh. Yeah. I don't think it would go too well. I think we would.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  You would break up?

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, in terms of.

• 1:04:47Speaker 01

  Who would you, who would you?

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  So what are the others? Marry?

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Marry and shag.

• 1:04:51Speaker 00

  Hold on, no. I married Wazza.

• 1:04:53Speaker 01

  Shag, marry, avoid.

• 1:04:55Speaker 00

  Avoid.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  So who are you shagging and avoiding?

• 1:04:57Speaker 00

  Well, I'd have to.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  You're shagging Lineker?

• 1:05:01Speaker 00

  I'd have to, yeah.

• 1:05:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:04Speaker 01

  About right. I get that. And so then you're avoiding Alan Shearer?

• 1:05:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Three good strikers though.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Great strikers. Be a fun little.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  It's not a nice question that, is it?

• 1:05:14Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 1:05:15Speaker 00

  I'm not bothered about the avoid anything. I'm just picturing the shag in there.

• 1:05:20Speaker 01

  It's a weird orgy, that looks like.

• 1:05:23Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  So we're gonna end there?

• 1:05:25Speaker 00

  Thank God for that.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Mike, you're fantastic coming. Thank you so much.

• 1:05:32Speaker 00

  Thank you, mate.

• 1:05:44Speaker 02

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