Pod Insights Great Company with Jamie Laing TOM ASPINALL: Eddie Hearn Is Right - UFC Fighters Deserve More About this episode Tom Aspinall is the first British UFC Heavyweight Champion of the World. With 15 wins, including 11 by knockout, he’s built a reputation as one of the most devastating finishers in the sport.
I'm a huge UFC fan, so sitting down with Tom was a dream come true. From training as a kid in his Dad's MMA gym to becoming one of the biggest names in the UFC, his story is nothing short of incredible.
In this conversation, Tom shares:
What it was like stepping into the cage for his first fightThe scariest moments of his career so farHis thoughts on the drama between Eddie Hearn and Dana White What he's learnt as a father to a child with autismWhy being a dad is the most important role in his life
Tom was a reminder that some of life’s biggest wins come from finding the courage to face the things that scare you the most.
Tom Aspinall is Great Company.
Check out Tom's podcast 'The Inner Game' HERE https://open.spotify.com/show/033sB4kX65Y9tvlV2P7ZdZ?si=c1b3938917ec42d6
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Transcript 15,099 words · 8 speakers
0:00 Speaker 00 When you walk out into the ring and there's a big crowd, what is that feeling like?
0:04 Speaker 01 Trust me when I tell you fighters get scared. It's fucking scary, man. And all the stuff that everybody else says is bullshit. I've seen people nearly passing out because they're so scared. Like, I used to have, like, two fights. One fight would be against my opponent, but the harder fight would be like against myself. And trying to convince myself, like, yeah, I'm not scared.
0:23 Speaker 01 That's never gonna go away. I'm Tom Aspinall and I'm in great company.
0:32 Speaker 00 Heavyweight champion of the world. We've got to talk about Eddie Hearn. Because you just signed with Eddie's agency.
0:37 Speaker 01 Yep.
0:38 Speaker 00 Matchroom.
0:39 Speaker 01 Eddie really cares about fighters getting what they're worth. And I want to get what I'm worth. I want to maximise my opportunity while I'm fighting as much as possible.
0:47 Speaker 00 But there is this narrative that the UFC don't pay their fighters well enough. You don't have to say you, but if there's a UFC champion and it's a championship fight, what are the kind of paychecks that they're looking at in the UFC?
0:56 Speaker 01 Would you want actual numbers?
0:57 Speaker 00 I would love it.
0:58 Speaker 01 Between...
1:01 Speaker 00 And what I love is that you're so... you were open about your son's autism.
1:04 Speaker 01 So we have my twins. We started noticing that, like, one was a little bit slower than the other with stuff. Just by chance. Paddy McGinnis, watch his documentary about autism. Paddy's got three kids that have got autism. And honestly, I could have been finishing the sentences for Paddy and his wife.
1:17 Speaker 00 Really?
1:18 Speaker 01 We tried to get him diagnosed on the NHS, right?
1:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:21 Speaker 01 We've still not been for an appointment. And it was five years ago. You know, there's good and bad situations in our life, but you gotta try and make the best of it, I think. I'm a big softie, aren't I? I'm a big softie.
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2:35 Speaker 00 Guys, welcome back to Great Company. So excited for today's episode because I'm a huge UFC fan. We have the heavyweight champion of the world, UFC fighter Tom Aspinall on the show. Man, this episode goes all over the place to talk about so many different things. I cannot wait for you to listen. Okay, before we start, I just want to ask one quick favor. If you can please subscribe to our show, click that button. It's completely for free and it takes one second. It means you join our incredible community. It keeps making our show better and better and we keep getting better guests just for you guys. Can you do that one thing? Thank you so much. Enjoy this huge episode of Great Company with UFC heavyweight champion Tom Aspinall.
3:12 Speaker 00 Before we start, I've got something for you to try.
3:14 Speaker 01 Okay.
3:15 Speaker 00 You're from Wigan.
3:17 Speaker 01 That's.
3:18 Speaker 00 Up for debate?
3:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's up for debate.
3:20 Speaker 00 Okay.
3:21 Speaker 01 It's up for debate.
3:22 Speaker 00 Well, this top bit doesn't work then if it's up for debate.
3:24 Speaker 01 Well, it seems like food, so I'm definitely going to try it. That's got to be food in there, isn't it?
3:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
3:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
3:29 Speaker 00 There's a little bird that I've.
3:32 Speaker 00 Wait, where are you? If you're not from Wigan, where are you from?
3:34 Speaker 01 Well, it's all a bit subjective, so like, uh, it's from. I won't even bore you with the details.
3:39 Speaker 00 Listen, I won't be bored.
3:40 Speaker 01 It's all boring for anyone who's not from that area. But, uh, like, we don't really claim Wigan from where I'm from. It's more like Manchester area. It's just a big mess.
3:48 Speaker 00 So, so you wouldn't know what a Wigan kebab?
3:51 Speaker 01 Yes, of course I would.
3:52 Speaker 00 Okay, so can you explain to the?
3:54 Speaker 01 It's a pie, so it's a. Are you doing it with bread or a balm? Balm being a roll.
3:59 Speaker 00 Yeah.
3:59 Speaker 01 What do you call it?
4:01 Speaker 00 I would call it a bread roll.
4:02 Speaker 01 Bread roll. So you get like a bread roll.
4:05 Speaker 00 Yeah.
4:05 Speaker 01 Put a pie in the middle. Eat it.
4:07 Speaker 00 It's just crazy.
4:09 Speaker 01 Have you, have you tried it though? It does work.
4:11 Speaker 00 I haven't, so I've got you, I've got you here.
4:13 Speaker 01 Depends what pie you were talking about.
4:15 Speaker 00 Well, I'll tell you why I've got you. I've got you a.
4:17 Speaker 01 That's a pasty though.
4:20 Speaker 00 What's the difference between, it's a pie.
4:22 Speaker 01 That's a pasty.
4:22 Speaker 00 How do you know it's a pasty from looking at it?
4:24 Speaker 01 I've got eyes that work.
4:26 Speaker 00 How do you, what's the difference between a pasty and a pie?
4:28 Speaker 01 It's completely different.
4:29 Speaker 00 Hang on a second, we, we, this is. That is a pasty, isn't it? Okay, tell me the difference between a pasty and a.
4:34 Speaker 01 That's pasty, but it's not a wig and kebab.
4:36 Speaker 00 What's the difference, they're both in pastry with meat in it or whatever it is.
4:39 Speaker 01 But the shape is completely different, like, look, let me do a sniff test on there. Don't think it's even meat and potato, is it? Let's have a look. Oh yeah, it is meat, it's like a steak, pasty, yeah.
4:49 Speaker 00 So, so a pasty is a different shape?
4:52 Speaker 01 Yeah, I can't believe it. Pie is like shaped like this, right?
4:56 Speaker 00 Yeah. Okay, well, hang on, what, what determines a pie?
4:59 Speaker 01 Well, I don't, I don't know the logistics of it. I just know the difference between them.
5:03 Speaker 00 I would say a pie is basically like something wrapped in pastry.
5:08 Speaker 01 No, that's a, that's definite pasty, hundred percent.
5:10 Speaker 00 That's what, that's not even a wig and kebab.
5:13 Speaker 01 No, it's not. Looks good though, to be fair.
5:14 Speaker 00 You wanna try and bite it?
5:15 Speaker 01 I'll have a bite.
5:16 Speaker 00 Okay, I'll have a bite after you. So this is what you, this is what, you get off a night out, you have it for tea, what do you, look at that.
5:25 Speaker 01 It's a good pasty, to be fair. It's not bad. I weren't sure what to expect.
5:29 Speaker 00 I'm gonna go the other end of it. Here we go.
5:31 Speaker 01 Oh, it's quite nice, actually.
5:32 Speaker 00 All right. I mean, there's a lot of yeast.
5:36 Speaker 01 It's a bit dry, to be honest.
5:40 Speaker 00 I grew up, like, I'm a huge sports fan, right? Huge, massive. And I got into sort of combat sport when I was like, so I used to do judo from like a very young age, never to like a high standard. I got like a blue belt, whatever it was. But I've always had a fascination with boxing, used to love boxing more than anything when it was like Lennox Lewis and people like that, right? Especially that era. Then I got into UFC. I'm watching that. And when I first became understanding of it, that wait, this, this sport out there doesn't really have any rules and you can fight in this cage and it was kind of amazing and unbelievable. So sit next to the heavyweight champion of the world. Man.
6:12 Speaker 01 Mate, I'm happy to be here.
6:14 Speaker 00 When you first went into your first cage fight, what was going through your head?
6:19 Speaker 01 Uh, I remember it well, actually. It was at the nightclub called The Oceana in Wolverhampton.
6:25 Speaker 00 Man, let's go. I love an Oceana.
6:27 Speaker 01 And uh.
6:28 Speaker 00 Why was it in an Oceana?
6:30 Speaker 01 I have no idea. And so I think I was like eighteen at the time.
6:34 Speaker 00 Yeah.
6:34 Speaker 01 And somehow like Wolverhampton felt like somewhat exotic.
6:41 Speaker 01 Cause it was like ninety minutes away from home. I was like, oh, this is a, this is a big trip.
6:45 Speaker 00 This is a good, a big city delights.
6:47 Speaker 01 And uh. Yeah, it all felt pretty normal to be honest, because I'd already like, so it's mixed martial arts is the name of our sport.
6:57 Speaker 01 That involves obviously a mix of martial arts. That involves boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, karate, judo, grappling, jiu jitsu. All these different stuff. And I'd already pretty much competed in all of it, growing up anyway.
7:11 Speaker 00 Every single one?
7:12 Speaker 01 Pretty much, like give or take. Uh, I'd competed in nearly everything. So by the time I was like eighteen or seventeen, I was when I had my first fight.
7:21 Speaker 01 It was pretty obvious that that's what I was gonna, gonna do, yeah.
7:25 Speaker 00 Is it nerve wracking that first actual fight? Or not really? Or it's just like, this is like my training, I'm just going in.
7:30 Speaker 01 No, it's nerve wracking, of course it is. Yeah.
7:32 Speaker 00 But talk me through, cause like, look, so I meet you today, right? This is the first time we've met. And I see, it doesn't feel like you'd be scared by much or intimidated by that many people. That's the sort of like, you have this, this sort of, and the guys were saying, you know, you have this sort of really like great energy where you, you're comfortable to talk to, but also you feel. I, I, I, I feel like if I was married to you, I'd be super protected. That's what I feel like.
7:59 Speaker 01 Lol, I don't know how to take that to be honest. I don't know. Just let me process that for a minute before I say thanks.
8:07 Speaker 00 So I don't understand how when you, you would, I don't understand how fear would come from you. That's, that's what I'm trying to get.
8:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, it does. It definitely does.
8:16 Speaker 00 Really?
8:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, I can't think of much scarier than having to fight somebody. Yeah, it's fucking scary, man.
8:24 Speaker 00 The most refreshing thing I've like I've I've heard because I think most fighters what you see is that they're going into it. I'm not scared. I'm not worried. Who cares about this? Yeah, I'm ready for this. But there can't be anything scarier than going into an organized fight with someone who's also another killer.
8:41 Speaker 01 Do you know what? I see I see a lot of fighters talking about that on interviews and stuff. Listen, I've been in I've been in changing rooms and locker rooms or whatever you want to call it. I've been backstage at MMA events all my life.
8:52 Speaker 00 Yeah.
8:52 Speaker 01 Trust me when I tell you fighters get scared. They might not say it. I've seen people throw I've seen people nearly passing out because they're so scared. Seen people throwing up on multiple occasions because they don't uh yeah, because they're not scared. So yeah, people sit in front of cameras all the time and say, yeah, I'm not scared. Is this, you know, it's been the best training of my life and I'm going to take you out in the first round. And all the stuff that everybody else says is bullshit. It's bullshit. You're blagging your way to trying to convince yourself that that's what's going on.
9:21 Speaker 00 So how much is it mentality where you're trying to trick yourself not to be like that?
9:25 Speaker 01 Yeah, a lot. A lot. And that's fine. Like, if that's your approach, like, fair play. I found that the opposite works better for me. Is like, I would rather just say, yeah, I'm I'm just pretty scared here. Like, I'm pretty nervous. And I feel like, once I accept that, it helps me in a way. Like, I just feel like it helps me because I say it a lot, like, I used to have like two fights. One fight would be against my opponent, but the harder fight would be like against myself and trying to convince myself like, yeah, I'm not scared. I don't wanna I'm not nervous. And like, that's never gonna go away. That I accepted like quite a long time ago. Are you familiar with a guy called GSP? He might have been the greatest UFC fighter of all time. Well, he actually spoke to me
10:09 Speaker 01 about it personally. And he told me that once he realized like, that's not gonna go away, you've got to use it like to help you. Then it all changed and like he said it way more articulately than I just said it. He said it over like ten minutes. Um, explained to me how he deals with it, how he accepts it, how he makes it work for him and stuff. And uh, yeah, that that conversation changed uh, my whole outlook on it all.
10:34 Speaker 00 Yeah, you know what, I had a big moment. So, and I spoke a lot about on the show, right? I had like anxiety a lot, like in my twenties, I just didn't understand it, right? I just had this anxiety within me. And I spoke to a therapist finally who said, I just wish you could accept it. I just accept it, accept that you just have this anxiety. And I went, no, I'm not going to accept it. That's not me. I can't accept it. And as soon as I accepted it, it was like this road to freedom. And it's weird that once we start accepting things in life, accepting that we're fearful, accepting that we're like scared to have kids or become a dad or scared that we're going to be, it kind of, it sets you free.
11:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, something that um, I should actually, just as you listen to say that, I should actually maybe think about it more. Cause I think all the time we're just trying to perceive ourselves as something like, like, I don't want to be scared. I don't want to, whatever the emotion is, I don't want to be embarrassed if I do. Sometimes maybe we should just talk about it more. Maybe that'll help.
11:23 Speaker 00 Dude, without, there was the um, Austin Butler, the actor, do you know who Austin Butler?
11:28 Speaker 01 No, I don't think so.
11:28 Speaker 00 Okay, also he played Elvis and he then, anyway, he, it, I just, this quote from him was phenomenal that I heard. He said that embarrassment is an emotion that we don't explore.
11:37 Speaker 01 I've seen the quote, I've seen it on Instagram, it keeps popping up, maybe my algorithm.
11:42 Speaker 00 But it's true, he says embarrassment is an emotion that we need to explore more deeply or whatever it is. Which is so true because we don't explore it because we're so worried about those things to explore. But what, hearing from you, the UFC, you know, heavyweight champion of the world, saying that you're scared to go into the ring. That will make other fighters, other people in life go, what if he's scared? I'm okay to feel that.
11:59 Speaker 01 Well, I think people get it confused, like it's a fear, but it's not a fear to the point where I don't want to do it.
12:03 Speaker 00 Sure.
12:04 Speaker 01 Obviously there's points of me that are definitely like, what are you doing? Don't, but I feel like that's just quite natural. Do you know, like if you're on a roller coaster, right? And you're about to like, you're on the bit that drops down.
12:15 Speaker 00 Yeah.
12:16 Speaker 01 Like you're definitely scared, but it's the great feeling at the same time. And that's the like, kind of the way I feel when I'm going to fight. He's like, I'm definitely scared, but it's gonna happen. So let's try and enjoy it.
12:26 Speaker 00 We need to talk about your last fight against Sir Again.
12:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:29 Speaker 00 I watched the fight. There was an eye poke.
12:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:33 Speaker 00 That happened. You went down.
12:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
12:36 Speaker 00 What is your memory of that moment?
12:39 Speaker 01 Well, I got poked in both eyes. Yeah, not, not, yeah, I won't recommend it. It's not very fun. Absolutely not very fun. Yeah, just, um, so I got poked in both eyes.
12:49 Speaker 00 How deep did it go?
12:50 Speaker 01 Like, it was, it just, I've never had anything like it. Never had anything like it. Yeah, uh, both eyes. And my vision was just completely gone in one eye.
13:01 Speaker 00 Nothing.
13:01 Speaker 01 It was just completely black for about four weeks. And it was probably the scariest experience of my life.
13:08 Speaker 01 It was horrendous.
13:09 Speaker 00 What are your eyes like now?
13:11 Speaker 01 Really good, actually. I've had, um, three surgeries. I had one on the left and two on the right. Um, by the way, I've had the snip, right? I've had a vasectomy and I was thinking like, that is got to be the worst surgery ever, mate, compared to eye surgery. It is nothing.
13:29 Speaker 00 Are you serious?
13:29 Speaker 01 Honestly, honestly, yeah.
13:31 Speaker 00 Eye surgery?
13:33 Speaker 01 It's fucking horrendous, honestly. Mate, lay awake. So they kept me awake.
13:38 Speaker 00 Oh, they're going in?
13:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I'm lay awake, right? They, uh, put something on like to keep your eyeball open like that. And obviously they, they numb it and stuff.
13:48 Speaker 00 Where does it numb it? Do you get into your eye?
13:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, they numb your eye.
13:50 Speaker 00 They inject your eye?
13:52 Speaker 01 Uh, so they did like drops and then they did an injection on the side. Um,
13:57 Speaker 01 and mate, they're coming at you with like a scalpel or a knife or whatever it's called. And you're just watching them slice your eyeball open. You're just like, what? He's got it. Mate, it was horrendous. It was horrible. I don't want to do that again.
14:10 Speaker 00 Was there moments where you thought you weren't going to see again?
14:13 Speaker 01 At first, mate, I was super scared about it, to be honest. Yeah. The first, um, especially like the first two weeks. Maybe, yeah, I, yeah, it was, I was really scared about it.
14:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, it would be scary. That would be a hundred percent without a doubt. Because I remember watching it and I think the heartbreaking thing as a fan of yours, right? Was that you go down, you, you're just like, I can't.
14:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:33 Speaker 00 And then there's this like backlash and.
14:35 Speaker 01 Yeah, but mate, you, you've got to understand, right? This is something that I've learned to un- understand like the hard way. When you're fighting somebody, you're just Saturday night entertainment. That's it. So like, if, if you're not in that fight, then people are gonna root against you. And that's the way, that's the way it is. It's shit. It's a bad situation. But I can't expect millions of people to care for me personally. Like, they wanna see me have a fight with somebody.
15:00 Speaker 00 Cause that's what they paid for.
15:01 Speaker 01 That's what they paid for. And it's shit and it's harsh and it's not very nice, but that's what it is. And uh.
15:08 Speaker 00 What comments do you get afterwards?
15:10 Speaker 01 I still get comments like, oh, he fucking ducked out the fight. He didn't wanna be there and stuff like that. But mate, a lot of MMA fans have also never had a fight in their life. And I don't expect them to understand what it takes to get to where I've got to. It's just as simple as that. And you don't see many fighters coming out and saying it. Do you know what I mean? It's always like people who've never had a fight. If you're gonna comment on the toughness, if you're gonna sit behind your phone and comment on the toughness of like a professional MMA fighter, then you don't really know what you're talking about. Do you know what I mean? And uh, I've had to learn the hard way because I got a lot of uh backlash and stuff. It was weird because obviously I got the eye coke and everything. And then I found out that like I was gonna,
15:54 Speaker 01 I needed surgery and I got a whole diagnosis on it and everything. And I was getting a lot of backlash and I thought, right, if I get like a doctor's note together and post that, then that'll just like, and mate, everyone, then I post it and everyone's just like, yeah, fake doctor's note, did it on chat G P S. And I'm just like, right, I can't fucking win here. I'm just gonna not say anything else about it then. And uh.
16:15 Speaker 00 Have you ever, have you ever in your life ducked out of a fight?
16:18 Speaker 01 No. Mate, it's, it's mad because the UFC matchmakers, right? I'm like renowned for just saying yes to everything. Like I would not, like when I won the interim title in New York, mate, I was literally hungover when they ruled me because I'd just come back from a stag do. I was outrageously out of shape. That's why I come in with like love handles and everything. And uh, the fight was in two weeks, fighting like the scariest guy in the division at the time. So, no, absolutely not. But you're never gonna like, a lot of MMA fans are just knuckleheads and that's, that's just the way it is.
16:55 Speaker 00 We've got to talk about Eddie Hearn.
16:56 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah.
16:57 Speaker 00 Cause you just signed with Eddie's agency.
16:59 Speaker 01 Yep.
17:00 Speaker 00 Matchroom.
17:00 Speaker 01 Yep.
17:01 Speaker 00 Amazing. Yeah, he, what he's, what Eddie's done is impressive.
17:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think so too.
17:06 Speaker 00 Super impressive. And I think you guys aligned feels really exciting. And he's now, he's got a lot of beef with Dana White.
17:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
17:15 Speaker 00 And he's come out and said, I've got a quote, "I would like Dana White to release Tom Aspil from his UFC contract and I will guarantee Dana White that I will pay Tom a minimum, perhaps five times more, but a minimum of three times more what Dana White's paying him. Dana White should be happy about the offer because Tom Aspil is very unhappy."
17:32 Speaker 01 Yep. Do you want me to react to that?
17:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:35 Speaker 01 Right. Eddie, so I wanted to extend my team a little bit. Eddie's now part of my team in that sense. And Eddie really cares. Like him and my dad work together. My dad's still my manager. Eddie like kind of advises me on stuff and does stuff commercially for me as well. Eddie really cares about fighters getting what they're worth.
18:03 Speaker 01 And I want to get what I'm worth. Do you know what I mean? And yeah, that's what I want to do. I want to maximize my opportunity while I'm fighting as much as possible. So Eddie and my dad are working together, not just Eddie, but all the match room are working together with my dad on that kind of stuff.
18:18 Speaker 00 Look, Tom, I know you probably can't be that open and like if you want to bypass this question, totally fine. But there is this narrative that the UFC don't pay their fighters well enough.
18:26 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:27 Speaker 00 What is your view on that?
18:31 Speaker 01 I mean, athletes are always looking for more money.
18:33 Speaker 00 Agreed. I get that. But there's a difference between asking for more money and actually being paid what you're worth.
18:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. I think that if you're risking your health, you should get paid the absolute maximum possible is what I think. And yeah, I mean, it's, there's been so many times like throughout the years where money's not even coming to the equation for me because I'm just so hungry to fight. That's what I want to do.
18:55 Speaker 00 But now you've got to look after your family, you've got to look after your future.
18:57 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:57 Speaker 00 And it's a short career.
18:58 Speaker 01 Exactly. Especially, it's difficult because for fighters, there's only one place to go really. If you want to be the best in the world, and that's the UFC. But I would like everyone to get paid as much as possible. Not just me, everybody.
19:11 Speaker 00 Well, give me, give me like a range. Like I've seen like boxers, right? Let's talk about boxing. You know, it's a different sport. I get it's different scenarios. Understandably, maybe it's a wider audience, lots of different things, but they can be paid towards a hundred million.
19:22 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's great. If no one wants to pay me that, I'm absolutely.
19:27 Speaker 00 Are you down?
19:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'm down.
19:28 Speaker 00 You'd fight Jake Paul.
19:29 Speaker 01 I'd fight three people for that at the same time.
19:34 Speaker 00 Your dad was a, or is a, he's a jiu jitsu coach, wasn't he?
19:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
19:39 Speaker 00 So when did you first start fighting?
19:40 Speaker 01 Um, I first started training, so I feel like a lot of people in it. So MMA, when I first started training was like way different to what it is now. We're talking, I'm 33, I've been training since I was about 10 ish.
19:54 Speaker 00 Yeah.
19:54 Speaker 01 Maybe less, it's hard to say when I really first started training because I used to go to the gym with my dad just because I didn't really have much else to do. But it was, it was way, it's difficult for people to imagine now. So in them days, it wasn't like there's professional fighters, regular people who do fighting training.
20:15 Speaker 00 Hmm.
20:15 Speaker 01 And then like a kid's class between 10 and 16.
20:19 Speaker 00 Hmm.
20:19 Speaker 01 And then an under 10, like it wasn't like that. It was literally a load of guys between the 30s and 50s meeting up to have a fight in like some worn down gym.
20:29 Speaker 00 Are you serious?
20:30 Speaker 01 And that was it. Do you know what I mean? It wasn't like, there wasn't like professional athletes really doing it then. We're talking like
20:36 Speaker 00 Yeah.
20:36 Speaker 01 over 20 years ago. So like I just started going to the gym with my dad to just, I don't know, I had nothing else to do. So I was just going to the gym, watching training, kicking a football around at the side of the mat and stuff like that. And I was always like involved with it, but I was also kind of training with guys who were, because you said between the age of 25 and 50, do you know what I mean? And I was 10, so it was like a bit, I don't, when I actually really started.
21:05 Speaker 00 Sparring with them?
21:06 Speaker 01 Like moving around with them, but they would, they would like take it very easy on me, do you know what I mean? And then when I was probably about 15, 14, 15, that's probably when I started actual, serious training.
21:18 Speaker 00 Cause that, that, from that young age, that like 10 years old, that's that kind of muscle memory. You feel the way you move, you feel what it's like, you kind of like, you, you grow up in that environment. It's kind of within you, that means.
21:30 Speaker 01 Yeah. Do you know what? I see, uh, my daddy's like really clever guy. Um, in ways that I only realise now because.
21:38 Speaker 01 He now like plays with my kids and he is sneakily teaching them how to fight without them realising it. And I feel like that's what he did with me.
21:47 Speaker 00 Explain like explain to me like what?
21:48 Speaker 01 Just like little games that they play and like little balance exercises they'll do and stuff like that. I didn't realise at the time, he was like teaching me how to fight. But now when I watch it with my kids, I'm like, they're actually learning how to fight. And they don't even know it. They just think they're playing a game.
22:05 Speaker 00 Cause your dad was one of the first jiu jitsu black belts in the UK, right?
22:08 Speaker 01 That's right, yeah, yeah.
22:09 Speaker 00 Which, which for anyone who doesn't understand, like the, how the belt sort of scheme works. So you start as a white belt.
22:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
22:16 Speaker 00 And then you go up different colours till you get to a black belt, right?
22:18 Speaker 01 Exactly, yeah.
22:19 Speaker 00 But getting to a black belt takes how many years typically?
22:21 Speaker 01 Oh, it can take usually about 10, 12, 15, something like that. Especially then, it was way different then. It was way different. It was, uh, it was not like it's even in my time doing it, which is 20 ish years. MMA has just changed massively. It's so different than it used to be in this country.
22:37 Speaker 00 Really?
22:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's just so big now. Like every, every way, like every town that you're in, there's an MMA gym. 20 years ago, you couldn't even find anywhere to train MMA. It was way different.
22:47 Speaker 00 Do you think your dad always wanted you to be a fighter?
22:49 Speaker 01 Yes. Yes. But I wouldn't want the same for my kids.
22:53 Speaker 00 Explain that to me.
22:54 Speaker 01 It's a tough sport, mate. It's tough. And I'm like one of the very lucky ones. So we're watching a local show. I say recently, it wasn't recently, it was probably like six months ago now, maybe a little bit longer.
23:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
23:07 Speaker 01 I went, I talked to my friend and he'd never been to like an MMA show before, really. You see my fights and stuff on the TV, but he'd never been to like a local show. And there was maybe 12 fights on the card, so 24 fighters. And he was like, you, you just asked me, so how many of these guys on, on this event will like be able to buy a house from fighting? And I was like, do you know what? Probably none. Like it's really rare that anybody makes any kind of like money, especially like generational wealth from it. So I class myself, uh, very lucky.
23:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, I heard that your first ever fight that you did, you got paid £200.
23:47 Speaker 01 Around that, yeah. Might be less, might be one fifty.
23:50 Speaker 00 To go into like a, like a cage, do MMA?
23:53 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was a crazy show. So, um.
23:57 Speaker 01 I remember I was warming up and when you, when you're in the, like the change rooms to warm up. That's like the time when you mainly get in your mind ready to what's gonna happen. And I was warming up and I remember these kids were in the change room and they were like playing catch with a pad. You know, like a, like a, like pads that like through and I was just like, what is going on? Then, uh, yeah, the, just different times. Like in them days, it was just way different than what it is now. It's changed so much.
24:29 Speaker 00 Yeah, apparently growing up, you were, you weren't even that tall and then you got, you had a growth spurt when you were.
24:33 Speaker 01 That's right. That's right.
24:34 Speaker 00 So sixteen, seventeen, you suddenly grew from five foot eight.
24:37 Speaker 01 Around that, yeah, something like that.
24:38 Speaker 00 To six foot five.
24:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't know how that happened. I don't know. I don't know what's going on. I don't know. How old are you?
24:44 Speaker 00 Eighteen.
24:47 Speaker 01 I think your, your chance has gone on it. But, uh, yeah, you know what? My, uh, my brother was tall. My brother's like the same height as me, around that. Um, he was tall like way earlier. I only got tall. But you know what? When it comes to fighting, I think it helped me a lot. Because, um,
25:04 Speaker 01 I like what I was, like I learned to fight like a small guy.
25:07 Speaker 00 Explain that to me, he doesn't understand.
25:09 Speaker 01 Right, so.
25:12 Speaker 01 If a guy my size walks into a gym off the street.
25:14 Speaker 00 Yeah.
25:15 Speaker 01 Generally speaking, they'll be able to have a lot of holes in the game technically. Because they'll be able to get away with doing stuff wrong because they're so much bigger than everybody else.
25:25 Speaker 00 Right, so they had the power over.
25:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, does that, does that make sense?
25:27 Speaker 00 Makes total sense.
25:28 Speaker 01 Because the, because they're way more, because they got a lot bigger physical attributes than everybody else.
25:32 Speaker 00 Got it.
25:33 Speaker 01 They will have holes technically in the game because they're able to compensate the holes with physicality. Um, whereas when I was small, I wasn't very physical at all. So I had to learn
25:47 Speaker 01 the right, the quote unquote, right way to.
25:49 Speaker 00 The technique to do it.
25:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly, yeah. And I think that helped me in the long term.
25:53 Speaker 00 That's so interesting. So you had to learn how to fight properly. You just couldn't use your weight and your size.
25:57 Speaker 01 Well, that's one of the advantages of starting as a small guy, as a kid. Yeah. Cause a lot of big guys like, especially around my area, people will play rugby and then come to fighting after.
26:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
26:06 Speaker 01 That's generally what happens or they'll do something physical before and they'll already be so big and strong that they can. They can dominate most guys without even having any technique, just because they're big and strong. But I didn't have that because I was small and, well, small. Uh, I had to rely on technique. So when I grew as, when I got big and strong, physical and technique as well, obviously that helps a lot.
26:28 Speaker 00 What was your backup plan if you didn't make it?
26:31 Speaker 01 Didn't have one.
26:32 Speaker 00 There was no plan?
26:32 Speaker 01 No, I had a little bit, like I, I worked a few jobs and stuff, um, did a little bit of studying.
26:39 Speaker 01 Little bit, let I say that very loosely. Um, but everything that I was doing was just towards me doing what I'm doing now, basically. It was all just like funding.
26:48 Speaker 00 Everything?
26:49 Speaker 01 Funding the dream. Yeah, pretty much.
26:51 Speaker 00 Parents together?
26:52 Speaker 01 Parents together. Yeah.
26:53 Speaker 00 Did your mom ever watch your fights?
26:55 Speaker 01 My mom's been to one of my fights, uh, when I fought in Manchester, which was a couple of years ago now, but because I'm fighting like international all the time.
27:03 Speaker 00 Yeah.
27:04 Speaker 01 And she was just like, this is probably the only time I'm gonna watch. I don't think she actually watched the fight, but she was in the arena.
27:11 Speaker 01 Excuse me, to be fair, there's not a chance I watch my kids fight either. So I, I respect, listen, cage fighting isn't for everybody. And I completely get it. It's not everybody's cup of tea. Uh, same way tennis isn't everyone's cup of tea, same way rugby's not someone's cup of tea, ping pong, volleyball, it goes on and on. Like I ain't gonna watch a game of volleyball. It's not my scene, but, um, the same for MMA, it's not for everybody.
27:35 Speaker 00 What was life like away from the gym, away from training, away from fighting? Like, like happy, like good, like friends, everything like that. Was it, was it a good life?
27:43 Speaker 01 Good. I mean, predominantly you free, your best friendships are the people you spend the most time with, aren't they?
27:48 Speaker 00 Hundred percent.
27:49 Speaker 01 So a lot of my friends are predominantly MMA fighters or in the MMA world. Uh, but I do have friends outside as well. I'm not just, uh, I don't just befriend cage fighters only. Um. But yeah, all good. Yeah. No, nothing to, uh, nothing to complain about.
28:05 Speaker 00 The, because you gave a great quote, which is where people, it's something like you say, people see success, but success takes years to make. And a lot of people don't realise that, that it actually takes the time that you were when you were 10 years old, right? When you go to the gym with your dad to where you are now. They just see you now, but you don't, don't see the years of the training, the commitment and the sacrifice that you have to go through the whole time.
28:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, not just landed here by chance, which is, uh, it's weird though, but like only the people who are not willing to sacrifice all that stuff will say that. Do you know what I mean? It's like, anybody, this is what I've found more and more over the years. It's like anybody with any success respects everybody else who's got any kind of success as well. It's like, um, the people who haven't got, you know, they, they don't have a lot of money. They always automatically think that the people, the people who have money have a really good life and it just, it isn't always the case. And it's the same like with successes. Like I would never understand somebody who's never put theirself out there and been through what I've been through to understand what, what it's like to be here. Do you know what I mean? And
29:11 Speaker 00 But talk me through that personal sacrifice. What sacrifices do you have to make?
29:16 Speaker 01 Oh, well, a lot. I really had to sacrifice my body a lot of the time. Yeah. Yeah. I've got a lot of injuries. Uh, same as any sports person. Do you know what I mean? I've been training for a bit of a professional sports person all my adult life. So, um, yeah, you pick up injuries along the way. Obviously, uh, financially was tough for a long time.
29:36 Speaker 00 Yeah.
29:37 Speaker 01 That was tough.
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31:15 Speaker 00 You had kids pretty young?
31:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
31:17 Speaker 00 You had kids at 23 years old?
31:18 Speaker 01 Yes.
31:19 Speaker 00 What's harder, do you think? Becoming a UFC champion or raising your kids?
31:24 Speaker 01 Oh, that's a good que- raising kids is not easy. I don't know. You know, I see some people, um, so I got like friends who have got kids. And anytime somebody says to me like, "The kids are amazing", which obviously you think your kids are amazing.
31:44 Speaker 00 Totally.
31:44 Speaker 01 Don't get me wrong.
31:45 Speaker 00 Hundred percent.
31:46 Speaker 01 But anybody who just says positive stuff about the kids, I'm always thinking like, "Yeah, you're not around enough." Honestly. And I'm just like, "Yeah", like, having kids is hard work, man. If you like care about raising them properly, I think it's really hard.
32:00 Speaker 00 Yeah, I agree with you.
32:02 Speaker 01 I really try, like, that's my most important project in life is to try and make my kids as good as possible.
32:09 Speaker 00 Why is that so important to you?
32:12 Speaker 01 I don't know. I don't like, why not? Why would it not be?
32:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, because, no, the question, the reason I ask that is this is that I was speaking to a friend of mine. He's called Amol Rajan, right? He's a journalist interviewer. And he has a podcast where he talks to different people. And he was saying to me that the majority of men he interviews,
32:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:31 Speaker 00 and he asks them what their biggest regret is in life. The majority of the answer is they weren't around enough when their kids were young.
32:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:38 Speaker 00 And they can't change that 25 years later, 30 years later, 15 years later, whatever it is. They've missed it. And that, they always say that. But you subconsciously will, without knowing, know that you want to be there with your kids, raising them up. And then the side of that is like, "Okay, this is my job. I'm a fighter." But most people swap around and go, "No success in my, in my business life. That's what I want to achieve more over than family life."
32:59 Speaker 01 Well, it depends. It depends the way you look at it because, um, some people need, and I think I'm one of these people as well. Like, if I wasn't like chasing success, I wouldn't be the person at home that I am now because I I would like feel unfulfilled, do you know what I mean? So I feel like I need to be achieving, because I was actually speaking about this yesterday, uh, with Joe Mala.
33:24 Speaker 00 Great guy.
33:24 Speaker 01 Big shout out to Joe Mala.
33:25 Speaker 00 Yeah, I love Joe.
33:26 Speaker 01 Um, we were talking about it. And he said, he was kind of kidding himself in his rugby career where he's like, to his wife and kids, like, I'm doing this for you. And I definitely have been guilty of that, being like to my kids, I'm doing this for you, like, I want to give you a nice house and a good place to grow up in, but ultimately, I'm doing it for me, to be honest. Uh, but I think that I'm like as a, as a subject of that, like something that subconsciously they get from it is like, I'm like mentally fulfilled through chasing this goal that I've got, so I'm better at home with them, if that makes sense.
34:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, because you don't have an itch to scratch.
34:03 Speaker 01 If I was going to a job every day that I'd hate it, say I was digging up roads, for example, if I'm digging up a road all day, I'm going to be getting back and pissed off.
34:10 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:11 Speaker 01 And I'm not going to be the best dad for my kids.
34:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:13 Speaker 01 Because I'm doing something that I hate every day. And then I'm doing it for them, but I also maybe like subconsciously I'm pissed off with them because I'm doing something all day that I don't like. If that makes sense, I don't know.
34:25 Speaker 00 It makes perfect sense. What you're saying is, which is so true, is that when you're fulfilled in your own personal life, you can become a better parent because you've achieved what you want to achieve.
34:34 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:34 Speaker 00 Otherwise, if you're constantly chasing that, you're not going to feel fulfilled and then you're going to be irritated at home because you're not fulfilling what you want to fulfill.
34:40 Speaker 01 So there'll, there'll be people listening and thinking, what are you talking about?
34:44 Speaker 00 No, but I actually don't think that's, I think people would agree. I think, I think if people really put a mirror on themselves a lot of the time, and I think it's fair to say, is that the reason may, maybe they're not present at home or not present with their friends or their family or their kids or whatever it is, could be anyone. It's probably because they're trying to scratch, scratch an itch they haven't scratched.
35:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, I'd struggle with not being present though.
35:04 Speaker 00 Oh, yeah.
35:05 Speaker 01 I struggle with that bad, especially at home. Got to be better at it. Like, um, I spend a lot of time at home and I do that. Like, I'm lucky enough to be in a position where I can be at home basically as much as I want or a lot of the time.
35:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
35:16 Speaker 01 And, uh, sometimes I'm just not present enough, man. I've got to be better.
35:20 Speaker 00 What are you doing? What are you doing? You not being present? What are you thinking about?
35:23 Speaker 01 Everything. Scrolling, which is a terrible habit to have.
35:28 Speaker 00 Yeah.
35:29 Speaker 01 Trying my best to get rid of that. Um, leaving the phone upstairs, first being good. Do you know, I, I usually go for that. Uh, and just like thinking about other stuff rather than just being present and being in the room. I've got to be way better at that. That's something I'm trying to work on.
35:42 Speaker 00 Tom, what I find amazing about you as well is that like, even in this short conversation, how open and honest you are about stuff, right? And what I love is that you're so, you were open about your son's autism.
35:51 Speaker 01 Yep.
35:52 Speaker 00 And the way that you discovered, if, if I'm right, is that you're watching, uh, Paddy McGinnis and his wife's TV show.
35:59 Speaker 01 Yeah. Oh, you've done good research. Fair play. Yeah. So it was, uh, so my twins were born twenty nineteen, just before COVID hit.
36:06 Speaker 00 Yeah.
36:07 Speaker 01 And I've got an older son as well. And, uh, like everybody gets hung up on this like milestones thing with a kid like, oh, is your kid talking at this age? Are they walking at this age? Are they crawling at this age? Are they doing this or whatever? Um, so we had my twins, just before COVID, and we started noticing that like, one was a little bit slower than the other with stuff. And, um, that, that's what you do with twins anyway, is you constantly compare them. Do you know what I mean? Oh, he's doing this. This one's not doing this. This one's doing this. And we were doing a bit of that.
36:43 Speaker 01 Um, but then my wife started to like, got to the age where they're kind of like starting to talk and respond and stuff like that. And, uh, my wife got to the stage and she was like, yeah, he's, I think he's like quite behind with stuff. And I was like, no, we're in like, we were like two, two years inside pretty much. Like we've barely seen anybody apart from, we see my parents who, you know, every now and again, because they kept putting these lockdowns in and then, they had like no like real outside the house experience, if that.
37:14 Speaker 00 Wow.
37:14 Speaker 01 It was really weird. It was, yeah. It was like, did let us out for a couple of weeks and we'd go and see people and then another lockdown would start. So we thought that like he was delayed a bit because of that. And then we're starting, you obviously do the thing where you start Googling and they're like twins are slower than everybody else and you know, they don't get as much one on one attention and etcetera.
37:37 Speaker 01 So I was like buying into that, what I was reading and I was like, look, it's just because of the lockdown. It's just because he's a twin, this, that and the other. I'm not worried about it, blah, blah. I think I was pretty much in denial at that stage because I could see.
37:47 Speaker 00 And also sleep deprived and everything was going on.
37:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, oh yeah. There was a lot going on. Um. And then this time, this was a really weird time for me in my personal life as well, like in my professional life, sorry, because uh I was like flying everywhere to fight. And the world was like still on lockdown and it was just a really weird time for me.
38:06 Speaker 00 So you're fighting in front of people, but there's no audiences?
38:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, there's no audiences. Yeah, yeah. So I was like flying to Vegas, flying to Abu Dhabi and fighting in front of like having fights with people in empty rooms, basically.
38:16 Speaker 00 Which just feels like an organised bar fight.
38:17 Speaker 01 It was so, it was so weird. It's such a weird time of my life. Um, but anyway. We started um just by chance, um Paddy McGinnis, who I know Paddy now, this was like years ago and. What's his documentary about autism? Paddy's got three kids that have got autism.
38:33 Speaker 00 Yeah.
38:35 Speaker 01 And it was just all about the different ways autism presents itself, the way it affects your life and. Yeah, just, oh, I I knew absolutely nothing on autism at the time. And yeah, I was watching all this different stuff and honestly, I could have been finishing the sentences for Paddy and his wife.
38:52 Speaker 00 Really?
38:52 Speaker 01 When I was watching it, I was like, wow, no way. Um, anyway, fast forward a little bit further. I actually did a, do you know a question sport, the game show?
39:01 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:01 Speaker 01 Paddy was hosting it. I don't know if it's still going actually, that question sport, but anyway, I was on it. Paddy was hosting it, met Paddy for the first time and uh I asked him about it. I said, listen, I I've watched your documentary and um. I think there's like some signs of my son having autism. Can you help? Like, what what shall I do? I literally didn't know what to do. Like, what do I do? And uh he was like, give me, give me the lady's number. And he was like, honestly, doesn't matter if they get diagnosed or not. But it doesn't matter if you put a label on them or not. The thing is, when they get diagnosis, they'll get help instantly, pretty much. So you give me the number. Anyway, this is fast forward in like quite a long time.
39:44 Speaker 01 Maybe like eighteen months. And I went through all the diagnosis stuff. I had to pay for it privately as well, which I'm completely aware that like um. Not many people are in that position where they can afford to pay it privately. So I'm very lucky on that.
39:56 Speaker 00 Expensive?
39:57 Speaker 01 Uh, it was expensive. Yeah, just for like, I think it was, I can't remember the exact price. I'd love to s- I don't wanna say it and it'd be wrong, but it was expensive.
40:05 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:05 Speaker 01 I know that. Um, it was, I think it was around the five, six grand mark, I think. It's a lot of money.
40:11 Speaker 00 It's a lot of money.
40:12 Speaker 01 So much money.
40:12 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:13 Speaker 01 Because, believe it or not, so I'm just gonna go on a bit of a tangent.
40:17 Speaker 00 Go.
40:18 Speaker 01 We tried to get him diagnosed on the NHS, right?
40:21 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:21 Speaker 01 We've still not been for an appointment. And it was five years ago. We've still not, we've still not been for a diagnosis appointment. And we've not let the NHS know that he's been diagnosed. So anyway, back to the.
40:34 Speaker 00 Whoa, whoa, whoa, hang on a second.
40:35 Speaker 01 That's crazy. The issue that we've got is, I don't know if it's the NHS or the government or whoever, because like now, my son is in a regular school. But he's got like a one on one with him all day. So he's got like somebody who helps him. So if he gets like, if he doesn't understand what's going on, he gets overwhelmed or autism presents itself in loads of different ways. So everyone's unique.
40:55 Speaker 00 Mm hmm.
40:55 Speaker 01 But the one on one teacher is there for him to help him if he needs it all day, which is amazing. That's absolutely amazing. But that is only because we got a diagnosis. If he was to be in the regular school now that he's in, and he's been there two years or three years. He he wouldn't have coped, like he wouldn't have coped without a one to one. And you can only get a one to one if you got a diagnosis. And I'm completely aware that not everybody has got the five or six grand or how much it costs to get them diagnosed. So there's people, there's families out there who have got absolutely no idea on what to do with the kids. They're getting no help at school. They're getting no help socially. They're getting no help educationally.
41:34 Speaker 01 They're literally sat at home with absolutely no guidance on how to deal with autism, how the future's gonna look, the steps to put in place. They don't know anything. Because they can't even get an appointment to get the kid seen by anybody related to autism. So that's the reason I talk about it because. I'm completely aware, look, I'm I'm from a blue collar background. I've been through times when I've had absolutely no money in the bank and I've had to borrow money from people all over the place. I'm completely aware that. Not everybody's got that money to pay. And I know families personally. People come up to me all the time in the street and talk about it and ask for how to get a diagnosis without paying. And I have no idea. Other, other than talk about it every time I can.
42:16 Speaker 00 No, firstly, thank you for sharing, dude. Cause that's like, yeah, I think that this conversation is super important. And that's so upsetting to imagine that there are kids out there in schools that haven't got a diagnosis and they're probably having a tough time in school.
42:28 Speaker 01 Yeah. And there's a lot of them. Honestly, like, like I said, I go everywhere I go, someone talks to me about autism, everywhere. And like, I don't, I'm not banging the drum all the time.
42:38 Speaker 00 Yeah.
42:38 Speaker 01 Do you know what I mean? I've just mentioned it on a couple of interviews.
42:40 Speaker 00 Totally.
42:40 Speaker 01 People need, like families, need help. It's as simple as that. Families desperately need help. And look. Autism is what it is. You're not going to be able to change the, the person who's got autism. The way they operate, the main, their mind works and everything. Look, they are, they are what they are. And everyone's got their own little ways and little ways around stuff and the way the mind works and everything. But. What can help is the day to day life of the families can make it a lot easier for everybody, including the child or adult. Uh, to help them like navigate through life and they're just not getting it.
43:15 Speaker 00 When you, when you watched that documentary and you then got your son's diagnosis, did it help you understand it or was it a relief or was it, what, what, what did you feel?
43:25 Speaker 01 Well, it's difficult because I used to look at autism in a different way. I used to look at it like a disability. Which I, I guess it is class, I don't know if it is actually, but um, and I used to think, no, that's, my son's not disabled. Do you know what I mean? I used to look at it like that. And it's not like you just learn that. That's the way it is. And that's the way they're gonna be. The mind works in their own way. And you have to like navigate your way around that. Like I said, it's never, um, cause I see people like even in comment sections on stuff about autism. People's like, oh, everyone's looking for like some diagnosis or like some ADHD next to the name or some autism, like. It's not about putting a label on somebody. It's about getting people the help that they need. It's nothing to do with.
44:12 Speaker 01 Or somebody walk around and saying, oh yeah, well, I can't do this because I'm autistic. It's nothing to do with that. It's to do with helping the child and the families navigate a proper path through life. And that's what people don't seem to understand sometimes.
44:25 Speaker 00 I I had H, who you know on the show, I love H, man. He's so great. He, his sister has Down syndrome. He speaks so beautifully about her and he was talking to me about how his sister Gracie changed his life in the most incredible way. And people who are naive to it or don't understand it or fearful of all these things, actually don't even know what, how their, their life becomes like a flower, like blossoms open and you see life in a different way. And I imagine that's what happened with your son.
44:55 Speaker 01 Oh, definitely. Like, honestly, my son, I have my three kids, me and my wife say this all the time. He is like the easiest kid. He's just so lovely all the time. And my other ones are just running around pissing me off.
45:11 Speaker 01 I'm just like, why can't he just be like him? Just sat there and he's just enjoying himself and he's not, don't like, he's just so nice. Um. But yeah, it's such a, it's difficult to say because everybody's autism presents itself in a whole massive spectrum of different ways. But the ways that he's got is the most beautiful thing ever. He's so lovely.
45:31 Speaker 00 If someone's listening right now, right, who perhaps really needs that advice, is there any particular advice that you had always given? Or you could say to them that could maybe navigate their journey at the moment?
45:42 Speaker 01 I think you've just got, it's difficult because everyone's going to process things differently, aren't they? And like I said, I was, I was on the, I, I was on the team of, no, that's not happening. He's not autistic. There's nothing wrong with him.
45:54 Speaker 00 Denial, denial, denial. Totally get it.
45:55 Speaker 01 That's the way I was. But I think you've just got to try and understand and, and like, I have not completed the autism mission by any shit. Like, it's going to be an ongoing thing for the rest of our lives. Um, and things are going to change and one day it's good or one day it's bad or one day they like this or one day they don't like this. And it's constantly like ebbing and flowing constantly. But I think you've just got to try and.
46:19 Speaker 01 Make it the best for everybody that it can be. And that's the only way you can get through, I think, anything in life. You know, there's good and bad situations in all life, but you gotta try and make the best of it, I think.
46:29 Speaker 00 Man, I love that attitude a hundred percent. Your wife must be.
46:33 Speaker 01 Oh, she's an angel.
46:33 Speaker 00 Superstar.
46:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, she's an absolute angel. I'd be, uh, yeah, she's, I wouldn't be anywhere near close to my position if it wasn't for her.
46:43 Speaker 00 What's the, what's the best thing about your wife?
46:45 Speaker 01 The best thing about her is, uh, that's a great question. I'd be here all day naming them, I think, but I think she is
46:55 Speaker 01 the kindest person I've ever met on something that she does really well, though. And I don't think this is the best thing about her, by the way, I just think this is something that I respect a lot.
47:05 Speaker 00 Yeah.
47:06 Speaker 01 Is, uh, if something's like, not, she can cut stuff off really good, like really quick. If something's getting in the way of the family or distracting the family or somebody's negative around, she can just cut them off. And, uh, I, I've got a lot of respect for that. I wish I was better at that. That's something I look at her and I'm like, you're fucking good at that.
47:28 Speaker 00 Why? Because you, you have to hold on to things a bit more?
47:31 Speaker 01 Yeah, I just think she's just, she's lived a completely different life to me. And I don't wanna talk about her life too much because she, she doesn't like the public eye stuff at all, so I respect that completely.
47:42 Speaker 00 A hundred percent.
47:42 Speaker 01 Um, so I won't talk about her life, but her, her life's been completely different to mine. If something isn't serving her happiness, or if someone isn't kind to her, or isn't kind to our family, or isn't coming with the right energy, she cut it off like that. And I just think that is amazing to be able to do that.
48:00 Speaker 00 Man, that is mad respect.
48:02 Speaker 01 Yeah, and I just think I need, I need to learn from that a little bit because I've sometimes maybe held on to things too long or kept people around too long who are not in the right, for the right reasons, stuff. And I think that sometimes, yeah, she's really good at just being like, that's not helping. Let's just leave it there.
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49:27 Speaker 00 Let's talk about your career.
49:29 Speaker 01 I've had a bit of a weird career, to be honest. Still ongoing.
49:32 Speaker 00 What do you mean?
49:33 Speaker 01 It's been very... I've had big hiatuses in my career. It's been very stop-start.
49:36 Speaker 00 Well, I'm gonna give you the... 15 wins?
49:38 Speaker 01 Yes.
49:39 Speaker 00 Three losses?
49:40 Speaker 01 Yes.
49:40 Speaker 00 Forget about those.
49:41 Speaker 01 Yep. Listen, they happen. You learn from them. You move forward. I'm talking about for the losses, you know?
49:46 Speaker 00 100%. You learn from them, baby. I get it.
49:48 Speaker 01 Yep.
49:49 Speaker 00 12 of your wins were won in under 1 minute 35 seconds.
49:51 Speaker 01 Oh, I didn't know that. It's a good start, though. Yeah.
49:55 Speaker 00 Friggin' believable.
49:56 Speaker 01 Yeah. I might put that on the Instagram bio. That's a good...
50:01 Speaker 00 Who's been your toughest opponent? Truthfully?
50:06 Speaker 01 Um, it's a good question. I had a fight pretty early on. I think it was in my third UFC fight, I think. Against a guy called Andrej Alavski.
50:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
50:17 Speaker 01 He was like a former hero of mine. He was a former champion himself as well. Um, when we fought, he was like forty ish, I think. So, you know, he's a little bit, a little bit older. Um, he was coming off a big win streak and I, I'd not really like got my feet wet yet. Do you know what I mean? It was like a massive occasion for me. First time fighting in Vegas as well.
50:35 Speaker 00 Big, big, big.
50:36 Speaker 01 That was big. But it was actually in Covid, so it was like a bit weird. I did fight like with about five hundred people watching. So it wasn't like a big stadium rating. Um, in that fight, I got, it's weird to talk about eye stuff, but I did get punched in the eye. And I couldn't see for most of the fight. Um.
50:54 Speaker 00 Same eye?
50:55 Speaker 01 Uh, well, my last, my last fight was both eyes. So, um, but yeah, it was my right eye, I think. I can't remember. But yeah, most of the fight I actually couldn't see. So that was a bit weird as well. But yeah, that, that was a tough fight.
51:07 Speaker 00 Cause he was just tough. And he's, and he's been through it. So he gets it.
51:11 Speaker 01 Yeah, not because he was tough, more because of who he was and where I was at the time.
51:16 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:17 Speaker 01 Like at the time, I was like, nobody really knew me.
51:20 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:20 Speaker 01 And he was like, even though he was a bit older, he was still on a winning streak at the time when I fought him. And he was still ranked and I knew who he was and followed his career and stuff like that.
51:30 Speaker 00 And so that feels like more pressure, right? Because it's like, well, this, this person is, I, I, this is a hero of mine.
51:36 Speaker 01 Yeah.
51:36 Speaker 00 And now I'm about to fight him.
51:37 Speaker 01 That was weird.
51:38 Speaker 00 That, it's like, it's like, it's, yeah, you shouldn't be, you should never, you should never meet your heroes, don't even fight them.
51:43 Speaker 01 That is weird because, uh, I looked through all my fights and I remember, it's weird because I don't, maybe this is because fighting is so important to me. But I forget a lot of milestones in my life and where I was and what I was doing and who I was with and stuff like that. But if you take me to any fight, I can tell you exactly what happened in the fight week.
52:00 Speaker 00 Can you really?
52:01 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly. Who was there? Exactly who I spoke to, the conversations that I had, how I felt. And I can remember everything about every fight.
52:08 Speaker 00 When you walk out into the ring, right? Like, and there's a big crowd there, not during Covid time. What is that feeling like?
52:15 Speaker 01 It's crazy. So, um, I had, like, the way my career worked, it was really weird. So I had four fights in Covid, four UFC fights in Covid.
52:24 Speaker 00 Yeah.
52:25 Speaker 01 My fifth fight. Uh, the main event in me, in the O two. Hmm. In London. So I went from fighting in front of nobody to fighting in front of twenty two thousand or whatever it is. In uh, in London, like it was literally just as the world opened. So like they opened the country. And then booked. Like the, the, the fight. Hmm. So I wasn't like walking around the streets freely, like I'd not, I was in Covid and then I was in a training camp and then I was gonna fight. So I didn't really realise how to be like in the public eye at all. I never, I never really experienced that.
53:03 Speaker 01 Um, and what they do in the UFC is when you're in the changing rooms. They have like a TV in the changing rooms. Yeah. Of the fight. So they show on the TV what they would show to people at home, like. So you're seeing all the previous. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And um, obviously you hear the crowd cheering and stuff. So you automatically just look at the TV. Do you know what I mean? Like if, if the crowd starts roaring, you're like, oh, who's been knocked out? Do you know what I mean? Automatically you look at the TV. And um, I heard this massive roar, like massive to the point where like I could feel the walls shaking in the. And I was like, fucking what, what? Like who's been knocked out really badly?
53:45 Speaker 01 And I looked up at the TV and they were showing a video of me walking into the building. It was fucking crazy. I couldn't believe it. I was like. And I, I even asked one, they're showing that on the screen like out there. He's like, yeah, that's what they're showing. So people were cheering that much just from me like walking into the building. I was like, no fucking way are people screaming like that just for me walking in. I couldn't believe it. Um, and then yeah, you walk out and it's just insane. People are just like hanging over the side to touch you. You're just like. Yeah, it's really weird. It's a strange experience, stranger.
54:20 Speaker 01 I can't describe it. Like, I feel like if I was walking out like that and I didn't have to fight somebody at the end of it, I would be having the time of my life.
54:27 Speaker 00 Yeah.
54:28 Speaker 01 But because I'm like walking out and then I'm aware, oh, my opponent's actually waiting for me there. Like, it's, you're just kind of like focused on the fight, I guess.
54:35 Speaker 00 Do you know what's so amazing? It's like you're, you forget you're a fan of the sport. Like, like, that's what's strange. Like, you're, you're sitting in the changing room, getting ready for your fight, but you're also watching the TV, wondering what's happened. You're just like anyone else, but you're the, you're the main event. And then, of course, you're gonna find it weird when they're your, you go up on the screen, everyone starts cheering you.
54:59 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's so weird.
54:59 Speaker 00 Weird when you're going out and people are down here trying to grab you. Cause you're just Tom who started fighting or like training at the age of 10 and suddenly you're in front of 22,000 people fighting for the heavyweight, like, championship. Like, that's just crazy.
55:13 Speaker 01 And that is, uh, that's something that I'm still learning about is like, since I was 10, I've been taught by my dad and multiple other coaches on how to fight people. I know how to do that. Um, I, I think I'm in a spot where I'm pretty good at it. I know, like,
55:32 Speaker 01 what I, you know, how to defend myself, how to punch them, how to take them down, how to escape off the ball and all the, all the stuff on how to fight. What nobody ever taught me is like, how to deal with like big groups of people who want your attention. I don't like, I'm still like learning that. That's, that's still like super like weird to me. I've got a lot of friends who are fighters as well, uh, of course, who are super famous fighters, more famous than me, a lot of them. Um, but they're also regular sized people. Do you know what I mean? Like, I'm very big and, and, uh,
56:04 Speaker 00 You're quite easy to spot.
56:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, very easy to spot, yeah.
56:06 Speaker 00 Yeah, it's the height and maybe the tattoos, I don't know.
56:08 Speaker 01 There's a lot, there's a lot going on there.
56:10 Speaker 00 There's a lot of things.
56:11 Speaker 01 People will spot me out of a crowd generally. So, um, yeah, they could blend in a little bit more.
56:15 Speaker 00 And also there's something about, there's something about fighters which is so mysterious and so exciting and so exhilarating that you want to meet them. You, you want to, you want to be in their presence. You want to talk to them. You want to ask them questions.
56:27 Speaker 01 Yeah, people are, people are very nice to me though. I mean, I don't want to come across like I'm unappreciated at all. Uh, like, um, people are generally really, really super like loving and nice everywhere I go. So, I'm not complaining. I'm just saying it takes some getting used to.
56:41 Speaker 00 You, um, you bought us a gift, which is your, um, belt.
56:45 Speaker 01 Well, you, you put it on the floor. It's not very nice.
56:50 Speaker 00 Can I get it out?
56:50 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course. Yeah, go for it.
56:54 Speaker 00 Christ. For anyone who's listening to this, go to our YouTube and check this out. Can I open it up?
56:58 Speaker 01 Open it.
57:00 Speaker 00 Oh shit.
57:01 Speaker 01 That's all right. It's a replica anyway. We'll not tell people, but it's not a real one.
57:06 Speaker 00 I'm not going to say that anyway. It's not a replica.
57:09 Speaker 01 Looks good. Nice belt.
57:11 Speaker 00 Holy shit. Man, when this gets wrapped around you.
57:16 Speaker 01 Yeah.
57:17 Speaker 00 And you're standing in the ring. And you've done your battle and this gets put around your waist and suddenly they announce that you're the heavyweight champion of the world. What is the feeling like?
57:28 Speaker 01 Relief is the only feel. That's the main thing that I feel after every fight. Yeah, just relieved.
57:34 Speaker 00 Relief that it's over, relief that you're okay.
57:35 Speaker 01 Relief that it's not me.
57:37 Speaker 00 On the floor?
57:37 Speaker 01 Yeah. Honestly, that's like the best, the best way I can describe when it is, yeah, just relief.
57:47 Speaker 00 That is, man, that is just heavy and everything.
57:49 Speaker 01 Looks good.
57:50 Speaker 00 I can't get over this. Do you still, is it still weird? Or have you, do you realise that you're?
57:58 Speaker 01 I don't, no, I don't think, think about it often, to be honest. I still feel like I've got a lot more stuff to do, to be honest. I don't feel like.
58:03 Speaker 00 I get that. Two things here. Firstly, John Jones, one of the greatest UFC, one of the greatest athletes.
58:09 Speaker 01 Absolutely.
58:10 Speaker 00 Absolute monster.
58:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:12 Speaker 00 I'm an incredible fighter.
58:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:13 Speaker 00 Right. Also left the UFC because of his own personal reasons and other stuff.
58:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:18 Speaker 00 Then came back and complete dominated again.
58:21 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:21 Speaker 00 Came heavyweight champion and then retired.
58:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
58:23 Speaker 00 And didn't want to fight you.
58:24 Speaker 01 Yep.
58:25 Speaker 00 Which seems, how do you feel? Where do you land on that?
58:29 Speaker 01 Look, it is what it is. Everyone's got their own reasons for stuff. At the time, I was just desperately trying to get the fight because I wanted to get the title off him.
58:35 Speaker 00 Yeah.
58:35 Speaker 01 I think, I think a lot of people kind of got it confused why I wanted to, I was never going after John Jones. I was going after the title. Simple as that. I wanted to be the best in the world.
58:46 Speaker 01 And I wasn't given the chance to fight John Jones. I would have loved to have fought one of the best, but I wasn't given the chance and I don't think it'll ever happen now. So it is what it is.
58:54 Speaker 00 It's interesting, right? Because you speak about that fear that you get and that John Jones is a monster.
59:00 Speaker 01 Oh, he's an absolute beast, which is why I wanted to fight him because I want to fight the best. I want to fight the best. Yeah, I don't want to, um. You know, there's not really much fun in fighting guys who everyone thinks that you're going to beat. Do you know what I mean? It's not fun. It doesn't. You actually don't achieve anything from it.
59:17 Speaker 00 It's such, it's, I, I, but I get your point, but it's such a juxtaposition, right? Because at one side you're like, there's this fear and there's this relief, but actually you still want to fight the best.
59:25 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, of course I do. I want to be the best in the world. I don't, I don't want to be a.
59:28 Speaker 00 You can be, you can be the best in the world, maybe not finding the best, but you want to fight the best.
59:31 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah, of course, of course. Yeah, yeah. And I think that's where a lot of people kind of got that confused when I was trying to fight John Jones. Like, I want to fight the best guy. People are saying the best guy ever. Listen, he could absolutely kick my ass, but at least I tried.
59:42 Speaker 00 What do you think drives you forward?
59:45 Speaker 01 I'm super competitive. Super. But I, you know, I just think I really enjoy it more than anything else. I think. The goals that I actually had, I actually didn't. My, my main, main, main goal for me was to buy a house. That was my absolute, like, top of the top was to buy a house. That was my main thing. And then obviously like being the best in the world and that, but that kind of like came secondary to buying a house. That's what I really wanted to do is. Like I know people like, like I'm from like a pretty small town outside of Manchester where everyone's working class and blue collar and all the rest of it. Like some of my friends' dads and mums and dads even now, they've not paid the house off.
1:00:29 Speaker 01 Like for me to be able to do that in my twenties, that was like the ultimate dream from doing something that I don't even really consider a real job. Do you know what I mean? So, um. That was the goal. And then obviously being the best title and all that, that came way secondary. Um, but for now it's just.
1:00:49 Speaker 01 I don't know, I want to be proud of myself, I think. I want my kids to be able to look at me and think, like, yeah, that was my dad who did that.
1:00:57 Speaker 00 Man, I have no doubt. That's gonna, if it hasn't happened already, that's gonna happen. And the fact that, I can't even imagine being your dad and watching you fight, having like, trained you up, managed you, everything, and then seeing the success you're having.
1:01:13 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's a, he knows what he's doing, to say the least, yeah.
1:01:17 Speaker 00 So you're gonna return to fighting?
1:01:20 Speaker 01 Oh yeah, that's the plan. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, definitely.
1:01:24 Speaker 00 Who do you think you're gonna?
1:01:26 Speaker 01 Well, I'm gonna fight the winner of, I don't know when this podcast's out, but the, the Cyril Gann is fighting Alex Pro, Alex Pro, amazing champion, by the way. This is a, this is, if he wins this, even though it's an interim title, he'll be the first guy to um, hold a belt at three weight divisions. So he fought a middleweight, won the title, light heavyweight, won the title, and now he's moving up to heavyweight. If he can do that.
1:01:48 Speaker 00 He's a monster.
1:01:49 Speaker 01 He's an absolute beast. He's an absolute, one of the greats, one of the greats of the sport. Uh, he's fighting Cyril Gann, who I've just fought. So the winner of that, I'll probably fight them.
1:01:59 Speaker 00 When do you think it'll be timeline, if you would have to guess?
1:02:01 Speaker 01 I'd like to fight this year.
1:02:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, but I think it's really important that um, health comes first, do you know what I mean? Like, it's gotta be right for everybody. Um,
1:02:14 Speaker 01 and like, I'm not rushing for nobody. When it's right for me, I'll, like, I'll do it. I'll hundred percent do it, but it's gotta be right.
1:02:23 Speaker 00 Can we talk about the inner game, your new podcast?
1:02:25 Speaker 01 Oh yeah.
1:02:26 Speaker 00 You do with your friend Charlie, is that right?
1:02:29 Speaker 01 That's right.
1:02:30 Speaker 00 Tell me what it's about. What do you talk about?
1:02:32 Speaker 01 So,
1:02:34 Speaker 01 like I said, I've been involved in MMA since I was around tenish, thirty-three now. So that's a lot, that's a big portion of my life. So a lot, a lot of that time has been spent with people who do MMA. The podcast is something completely away from MMA. This is about different, successful people in different
1:02:51 Speaker 00 Love it.
1:02:52 Speaker 01 fields. And it's also about like the mindset it took to get them there, what fuels them, the fears that they've got, the anxieties that they've got. You know what, actually? We interviewed, well, it was not an interview. We did the podcast with different people from all different stuff from music, documentary makers, you know, we had Louis through on there. He's one of my heroes, by the way.
1:03:11 Speaker 00 Greatest. Um. Isn't he the best?
1:03:13 Speaker 01 He's amazing. All kinds of different people in different fields who are really successful. And really popular and famous and all the rest of it. It's unbelievable how similar everybody is. Unbelievable. I couldn't believe it.
1:03:27 Speaker 00 Yeah, everyone.
1:03:27 Speaker 01 I learned so much from doing the podcast that I feel like it's really, it's really, I think it's going to be really interesting for people to listen to how many, how many similarities there are in different fields.
1:03:39 Speaker 00 I mean, we're going to leave a link to your show in our
1:03:41 Speaker 01 Oh, thank you.
1:03:41 Speaker 00 in our show description. Go and check it out. I can't wait to listen. And so, can I say, this has been like a true honour. Like, I, I, I get maybe you don't realise that and maybe you're still in this sort of space being like, you know, do people really like, why do people care so much? People care about you because you're authentic, you're down to earth, you're, you're, you're, you're a British champion. And man, we fucking love you.
1:04:03 Speaker 01 Thank you. Appreciate it.
1:04:04 Speaker 00 You're unbelievable.
1:04:05 Speaker 01 I don't take compliments very well.
1:04:06 Speaker 00 No, you don't. I've noticed that. I noticed that. Um. Listen, we like to end the conversation with eight quickfire questions. You ready for this?
1:04:13 Speaker 01 Eight?
1:04:13 Speaker 00 Yeah, baby.
1:04:14 Speaker 01 One, one word answers or?
1:04:15 Speaker 00 Whatever you want to do. What's the saying or phrase that makes you smile or cheers you up?
1:04:18 Speaker 01 When someone I love gives me a compliment, and I just said I don't take compliments very well, but if someone says like, you did good there. I would be like, thank you. That makes me feel good.
1:04:29 Speaker 00 And that's my second question. Best compliment anyone's ever given you?
1:04:32 Speaker 01 Uh, some, I actually got one from my wife, uh, and she said that when you're around, I feel safer. That's the best compliment that anyone could ever give me.
1:04:43 Speaker 00 Oh, fucking.
1:04:44 Speaker 01 I'm a big softie, Anna. I'm a big softie. But yeah.
1:04:47 Speaker 00 Man, I love that. I wish my wife said that about me. She does not.
1:04:51 Speaker 01 No, no, because I'm like, I'm awake a fair bit. Do you know what I mean? Like, I travel a lot. Um. And she said last time I came back, I said, everything been going good. She said, yeah, everything's been going great. Yeah, yeah. Said, oh, did you miss me? She said, no, I didn't miss you because I still speak to you all, all the time. But she said, when you're around, I feel safer. And I was just like, that's fucking great. I'm keeping that one.
1:05:12 Speaker 00 I'm keeping that one in the locker. That's the question. If you, if you, if someone was to start a fight in you, something would happen, right? And you, and it was outside in public.
1:05:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:05:18 Speaker 00 Because you're a professional fighter. Are there issues around that?
1:05:22 Speaker 01 You'd be, me and Charlie speaking all the time about it. You'd be surprised how many people start fights with me. It's, it's not regular, but it's, it happens.
1:05:32 Speaker 00 Are they all right? What they think?
1:05:34 Speaker 01 Usually they're, no, it usually happens like, uh, see the issue I've got, it's like if I'm going somewhere.
1:05:42 Speaker 01 So if I'm with family, if I'm with kids and stuff, and someone comes over and asks for a picture.
1:05:46 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:05:47 Speaker 01 Ninety nine point nine percent of the time, I'll be like, yeah, absolutely. Of course. Just do it quick because I'm just with the family. Yeah, well, then we'll move on.
1:05:53 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:05:54 Speaker 01 If I'm like in a bar, which isn't very often these days, and I'm like with friends and stuff having a drink, and someone comes over and says, oh, can I have a picture? I'd be like, yeah, mate, of course. Yeah, we'll do a picture. We'll do a picture. And then they say, when's your next fight then? And then I tell them when the next fight is. And then they say, well, what do you think of this fight coming? It's basically, I just feel like I'm, and I'm just like, mate, do you mind just?
1:06:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, I'm here.
1:06:17 Speaker 01 And just see her with my friends. Can I just?
1:06:18 Speaker 00 Yeah.
1:06:18 Speaker 01 And people don't like that. And then people will start saying, well, you fucking think you're better than everybody. And it just goes from there. It just goes from there.
1:06:25 Speaker 00 And then you spark that.
1:06:27 Speaker 01 No, I don't spark anybody. Then I have to leave. Then I have to leave.
1:06:30 Speaker 00 Do you really? Can you feel, can you?
1:06:32 Speaker 01 No, no, I'm not like an angry person generally. Like if, obviously if somebody tries to hurt me or my family, I have to defend myself. But I'm not out there looking for trouble with anybody. Like my demons get exercised on a regular basis in the gym.
1:06:43 Speaker 00 I think I would absolutely shit myself if I was a burglar and I broke into your house and I woke you up. I'd be like, oh, so sorry.
1:06:52 Speaker 00 Whoa, I don't know what I've just done here. Let, let me back out and I'll fix the window.
1:06:57 Speaker 01 There's some crazy people out there, but you got, you're not getting in my house. You've got to get past my dogs first before you get to me. They're way more vicious.
1:07:03 Speaker 00 What scares you most about yourself?
1:07:06 Speaker 01 Oof, that's a good question. Um, impulsive decisions.
1:07:12 Speaker 00 It's a common theme with a lot of people. When was the last time you cried?
1:07:16 Speaker 01 I wish I could cry more, to be honest.
1:07:18 Speaker 00 Really?
1:07:18 Speaker 01 Yeah. Something I struggle with crying. I wish I could do it more because I always feel better. No, like sometimes if something emotional has happened, I won't cry. I'll just hold it in. I don't, I don't even hold it in purposely. I just don't cry.
1:07:30 Speaker 00 You just don't know that?
1:07:30 Speaker 01 Yeah. I wish I did more. Um.
1:07:35 Speaker 00 Maybe there hasn't been.
1:07:36 Speaker 01 I can't remember. I can't remember.
1:07:38 Speaker 00 Well, one thing you should leave is with this is that you should cry more. It's an emotion you should explore more deeply.
1:07:43 Speaker 01 I wish I could. I wish I could. You know, sometimes like, uh.
1:07:47 Speaker 00 Have you watched Titanic?
1:07:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, well, I, I, I cry at films and stuff. I cried at Yellowstone recently.
1:07:52 Speaker 00 Sorry, the cowboy film? The cowboy series?
1:07:55 Speaker 01 It's fantastic. Fantastic. It's great. It's great.
1:07:59 Speaker 00 What bit did you cry?
1:08:00 Speaker 01 I can't remember, but I do remember. But it wasn't like, it wasn't proper crying, do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it wasn't like properly crying though.
1:08:07 Speaker 00 Okay, man, listen, I don't wanna.
1:08:09 Speaker 01 Properly, properly cried, I'm.
1:08:11 Speaker 00 Crying at Yellowstone?
1:08:12 Speaker 01 I'm not sure. Makes a great series. Highly recommended.
1:08:15 Speaker 00 It's the mountains, that's what you're about.
1:08:16 Speaker 01 Fantastic. Love it. It probably is.
1:08:18 Speaker 00 It's the mountains.
1:08:19 Speaker 01 Must be.
1:08:20 Speaker 00 What's something you can't let go of?
1:08:23 Speaker 01 Oof, overthinking.
1:08:27 Speaker 00 Busy mind?
1:08:28 Speaker 01 Busy mind.
1:08:29 Speaker 00 What's your guilty pleasure?
1:08:31 Speaker 01 I don't, I'm not sure I've got one.
1:08:33 Speaker 00 Nothing.
1:08:33 Speaker 01 I'm, I'm happy with my pleasures. I don't feel like guilty when I do them.
1:08:36 Speaker 00 Love that. What turns you off?
1:08:39 Speaker 01 When people are rude to other, to the people who are working at a restaurant.
1:08:42 Speaker 00 That's my one.
1:08:42 Speaker 01 Can't fucking stand it.
1:08:43 Speaker 00 That's my one.
1:08:44 Speaker 01 Can't stand it.
1:08:45 Speaker 00 That's my worst thing.
1:08:46 Speaker 01 When they talk down to people, it's just don't do it.
1:08:48 Speaker 00 Rude to waiters, rude to people? I hate it.
1:08:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, I absolutely hate it.
1:08:51 Speaker 00 You know what? We had, um, Raymond Blanc on the show, he's a chef, right? And he saw one of his team members being rude to one of the cleaners.
1:08:59 Speaker 01 Yeah.
1:08:59 Speaker 00 And so he said, you're now going to work as a cleaner for the whole week.
1:09:02 Speaker 01 Like it.
1:09:02 Speaker 00 He was never rude again because he didn't realise how hard they were.
1:09:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, of course.
1:09:05 Speaker 00 And he said his back, it was just like, I, I had the biggest respect for anyone who does that. It was unbelievable.
1:09:09 Speaker 01 Good.
1:09:10 Speaker 00 What turns you on?
1:09:12 Speaker 01 Um.
1:09:14 Speaker 00 I don't know the word for it.
1:09:16 Speaker 01 Integrity is the word.
1:09:18 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:09:19 Speaker 01 But when you being integrity, what do you say?
1:09:22 Speaker 00 When you're being, when you're.
1:09:24 Speaker 01 What's the word?
1:09:24 Speaker 00 What is it? Yeah, that's it. When you're being yourself, staying true to yourself.
1:09:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like that.
1:09:29 Speaker 00 Yeah. When you're being authentic self, which I feel like, Tom, you can't be anything but yourself.
1:09:34 Speaker 01 I don't know. I try to, but I also like, um, something that I'm trying to get better at is like good communication skills. In terms of, um, if something's working, tell somebody that it's working. If it's not, tell them it's not.
1:09:49 Speaker 00 We're taking a compliment. You should start there.
1:09:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, I don't like them. Don't like them.
1:09:54 Speaker 00 What do you like most about yourself? This is gonna be hard for me.
1:09:57 Speaker 01 Uh, I don't know.
1:09:59 Speaker 00 Here we go. A good northern lad telling what they most like about themselves.
1:10:03 Speaker 01 Great question. Um.
1:10:06 Speaker 00 Disassociate yourself, just do it properly.
1:10:08 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, I wanna try. Um, I think I'm quite happy with whatever's going on. Do you know what I mean? Like, whatever we're doing, I'll try and enjoy it to the fullest.
1:10:19 Speaker 00 Last one, snog, marry, avoid.
1:10:21 Speaker 01 Go on.
1:10:21 Speaker 00 Conor McGregor, John Jones, Dana White.
1:10:23 Speaker 01 Oh my God, I'm not snogging, marrying, avoid. I avoid all of them. I don't wanna.
1:10:27 Speaker 00 Okay, yeah, yeah. So wait, you're gonna snog John Jones? You're gonna marry Dana White?
1:10:33 Speaker 01 I'm gonna avoid all of them. I don't wanna be close to any of them.
1:10:37 Speaker 00 Tom Arsenal, you're fucking great company, my friend. Thank you so much. Unbelievable. Man, you're kidding me. That was unbelievable, dude.
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