How to Turn an Emotional Transition Into a Beautiful Celebration | Tembi Locke

When New York Times bestselling author Tembi Locke faced sending her only child to college, she created what she calls a "college moon" - a transformative journey through Sicily that offers fresh wisdom for anyone navigating major life transitions. In her new audio memoir, Someday, Now: A Memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility, and One Sicilian Summer https://amzn.to/4mzFdkj, Locke shares intimate insights about blending families after loss, finding presence during change, and how the places we love can become anchors for our well-being. You can find Tembi at: Website https://www.tembilocke.com/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tembilocke | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/empty-nest-life-transitions-blended-families-tembi-locke If you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Suleika Jaouad https://pod.link/goodlifeproject/episode/NjdmN2ZmZTg3OGFkM2M3OTAxMTM1YWQ1 about turning illness and upheaval into creative meaning and wonder. Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the Wheel https://jonathanfields.substack.com/aboutVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So how can we simultaneously celebrate a major life transition while allowing space to grieve and also honor and support those at the center of it all, beyond just you, and including you? This question sparked an extraordinary conversation about motherhood, loss, love, and the power of place to shape who we become. When New York Times bestselling author Tembi Locke realized her only daughter was heading off to college, she crafted what she calls "A College Moon," a sacred journey through Sicily that would become so much more than a final summer trip. And it became this beautiful exploration of how we navigate major life transitions while building new family bonds in the wake of loss. And I wanted to know all the details.

• 0:44Jonathan Fields?

  Tembi's 2019 memoir, From Scratch, it became an instant bestseller. It was adapted into a hit Netflix series. And her new memoir, Someday Now, A Memoir of Family, Reclaiming Possibility, and One Sicilian Summer, it takes us on this intimate journey through the streets and traditions of Sicily as she navigates sending her daughter to college while also nurturing delicate bonds of a newly blended family. And what emerged from our conversation was this profound understanding of how places shape us, how we carry them with us, how the ancient story and wisdom of Sicily, where there isn't even a future tense in language, can teach us about being present during life's biggest transitions. We explore a whole bunch of practical wisdom about blending families, processing grief

• 1:27Jonathan Fields?

  while celebrating joy, and finding ways to stay grounded even when everything around us feels like it's shifting. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

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• 3:19Speaker 05

  Jonathan, I know I'm in great hands. I have looked forward to this from the moment the email came through and I thought, oh, how lovely that unfolding will be, whatever that looks like.

• 3:32Jonathan Fields?

  Now I'm looking forward to it as well. You're, we're having this conversation. You have an audio book, an audio experience, an immersive audio experience out someday now. And I wanted to drop into a whole lot of the ideas and some of the stories from it, because I think they're really relevant to so many of us. But I'm also curious about the format of what you did. I think you have been in the world of acting for a long time. People have probably seen you, heard your voice in so many different areas and so many different places for a lot of years. You wrote this incredible memoir that then becomes a Netflix series. And then you decide there's another story to tell here. And you make a really interesting choice about how you want to tell it, you know? Some people would say, well, write a memoir or do.

• 4:14Jonathan Fields?

  And you decide that immersive audio is the way that you want to do it. And I'm just really curious about what went into that exploration and that decision.

• 4:23Speaker 05

  First of all, I love this question and thank you for this question because. I think the top line answer before we drill deeper is that I was very curious about it. One, I am a listener of audiobooks and I also, I think intuitively have been, was, am in a season of my life of deep listening. And as the story was emerging, the idea of an end, because the location of the story primarily is a familiar place, it's set in Sicily.

• 5:03Speaker 05

  So it's a similar location, and in some places, the exact same locations that I write about in my memoir, my first book. But to return to those spaces as a storyteller and bring the listener along with me to experience a place just through sound, both the sound of my voice telling the story that I wrote, but also the sound of the place. And, you know, it kind of, it kind of formed very organically. I can't say I woke up one day saying, I want to create this whole new format of, you know, it's a memoir, but it's an audio memoir, but it's also like a little bit of a documentarian

• 5:48Speaker 05

  work. It's a, it wasn't that formal. I really led with my intuition and I thought, well, let me write a story. And to write a second memoir is also its own challenge, right? So I knew I was going to write another story that in some way was tethered to my first book. I wanted it to feel of a piece, but its own thing, its own story. And this format lends itself to it being a different way to drop into a life and into a story. That listeners who maybe listened to the first book, or readers, or even viewers of the adaptation of my first book, coming to someday now is a different experience and

• 6:33Speaker 05

  it's very intimate. And I think that intimacy. I've been craving it in my life and in a very noisy world. And I wanted to challenge myself to listen, both internally and externally. And I thought, what if I bring listeners along with me?

• 6:53Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, intimacy is, it's such an interesting thing. When, so Good Life Project actually exists because a million years ago, before we were doing this, I got interested in public radio. And a friend of mine connected me with somebody who was one of the founders of one of the big longstanding public radio franchises. And I was walking around, this was back in New York. She also happened to be a docent at the Met, like this gorgeous museum. I'm walking around the museum with her one day and I'm kind of telling her about my interest. And she kind of looks at me and she, she asked me, she's like, well, like, why are you so interested in it? And I was like, well, you know, as an author and doing this and that, like, the reach is just astonishing. And she kind of cocks her head to the side, like I'm missing something here. And like, what am I missing? And she says, the thing about audio, the thing about radio, public radio in particular,

• 7:37Jonathan Fields?

  is there is no more intimate medium than you can possibly have. And it was like a light bulb moment for me. I'm like, oh, right. It's like literally, especially these days when people are walking around often with earbuds in their ears. Like, it's like, whatever they're listening to is inside of their head. It's like a direct line to their brain. And it took me a while to really understand that.

• 7:58Speaker 05

  I really thank you for that reflection and I, I understand it. I think intimately, both as a listener of audio and radio. But I also know that, much like music, we form so many associations with the places we first heard something. For example, you know, I, I know people who have had just an early listen to the book and they've said, wow, even my experience of listening to the story changes if I'm listening to it at home in my kitchen or if I'm in my car or if I'm, you know, taking a walk. And this portability of the experience of listening and being told a story

• 8:42Speaker 05

  as you're moving through your life is deeply, deeply intimate. And I don't know, I just, I find it, I find sound so elusive. First of all, I find sound to be a privilege. It's a privilege to hear. I have friends who have or have challenges with their hearing, right? So to hear, just to hear is a privilege. And then to listen, as we all know, is something even deeper, right? And so I think that this experience of creating this audiobook has been a really powerful reminder to me of slowing down,

• 9:26Speaker 05

  the gift to hear what's around us, and then how that can help us tune in and listen within.

• 9:36Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. And to give a little more texture, you, part of what you hear is not just your voice through this, but what you did is you recorded a whole bunch of video. Sort of like, like, you know, in Sicily, in different parts. So, so you're hearing the, so like, the native sounds from what's around you, mixed in with the experience. So rather than sort of like a manufactured soundtrack in the background, or just nothing, it's almost like you're trying to bring somebody into this environment, which is really interesting, because somebody's probably potentially listening in the car, and then all of a sudden, wait a minute, like, I'm almost smelling the sounds of the street in Sicily, or something like that, because I hear the sounds of it.

• 10:12Speaker 05

  You know, it's so funny, when I initially, when I was talking to my editor about, sort of like, what the arc of the story itself might be, and I knew I was going to record these sounds, but I hadn't yet recorded all of them. And so the process of being in Sicily, and journaling, writing, capturing the things I need for this, the story I'm seeking to tell. And then I walked around the streets, and through the rural areas around the house where I was staying, with this handheld recorder.

• 10:55Speaker 05

  And I listened to the wind. I don't know that I'd ever done that in my entire life, other than like, you know, when I was a teenager, like, oh, that's the wind. It's messing my hair up, you know, but now I'm like, listening to the wind. And what that did for me as a storyteller, it just as a human, the way it opened my heart to know that that wind is blowing from the south. So that that same wind is the wind that came across the sea from North Africa into Sicily and will continue north. It just, it suddenly made everything seem so beautifully and intimately woven together that I think it helped me to tell the story I was, I think that was on my heart to tell.

• 11:40Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm, I love that. Yeah, it's, it's interesting as you're describing that. What popped into my head also is this experience of, you know, so many of us have a listening device and a camera and a video camera in our pockets right now. And oftentimes, we malign the fact that we have it there and we're just, you know, our head is always down, looking at our palm and not paying attention to the world. And, and if you don't do anything to sort of pull out of that, yeah, that is the reality for so many of us. But when you sort of try and be conscious about it and realize that you have a device that can capture moments, I don't know about you, but I have found that it sometimes makes me pay more attention to my surroundings because especially when I'm traveling, I'm

• 12:24Jonathan Fields?

  sort of constantly looking around and listening for and looking for these moments to capture. But there's this fine line, right? Because there's a line between like being there for the purpose of wanting to capture something cool or interesting to bring back and just being there.

• 12:43Speaker 05

  Exactly. And threading that needle and the balance between sort of the conscious awareness that I want to capture this because I'm writing something and I want to document it. And, oh, I'm noting this, I'm noting that. And then

• 12:58Speaker 05

  It's a little bit like in theater with a show and rehearsing. You rehearse, you rehearse, you put all the consciousness on it. We're rehearsing it, we're figuring out the steps, we're, what's the choreography? What's the blocking? But when it's showtime, you let all of that go and you just are in the performance. And so to some degree, I think all the recording, there was that moment where I'd start the recorder and I'd sit down and I'd make sure it was positioned correctly. And then it was just let it go. And now let me listen also. And I did not know the gift that would come from something as simple as listening.

• 13:41Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. And then I would imagine, you know, on random days, if you play back just random sounds, it's like you time travel.

• 13:48Speaker 05

  Yes, yes.

• 13:49Jonathan Fields?

  Audio has this amazing ability to let you time travel, whether it's sounds, whether it's music, like you said earlier in a conversation. Like I can tell you exactly where I was and what I was feeling when I hear the first three notes of a particular song.

• 14:01Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 14:02Jonathan Fields?

  It just, it ports us to a different place in time.

• 14:05Speaker 05

  You know what? It's so interesting that you just reminded me of, as we've been talking, I was thinking of in my early, in my childhood, pre-digital, pre everything. My father was a big, you know, he loved taking family photos and whatnot. And then at every family reunion, which my family had numerous, he would do orchestrate this incredible slideshow. And he would do the slideshow and he would spend weeks prior to the family reunion doing the slideshow and he would set every slide to music in the way that like now we can all do on our iPhone in a single device, but he was using, you know, multimedia, he was pulling it all together.

• 14:45Speaker 05

  And I remembered in one of the times he was creating one of these, he was going through photos and he found in the, in the box of photos, a cassette tape. Effectively, he had recorded the sound of my voice, sending an audio message to my grandparents when I was like three years old. And I remember being a teenager and hearing my three-year-old voice, right?

• 15:15Speaker 05

  And I remember being like, suddenly the memory, or my sense of the memory of being there, like it was like I was back, I was time traveling, as you said, back to that moment when I was three. And I remember the phone being brought close to me and being able to sort of like say hello to grandma and grandpa. And you're right, audio has this way to transport us and it's powerful.

• 15:40Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, so agree with that. Let's drop a little bit into the story that you do end up telling. So this is really, it's a story about a fairly short season that unfolds between the time that your daughter graduates high school and then moves on to college. And so many of us had been through that season, all the feels, all the time, all the questions, all the head spins. And you kind of take us right into the middle of it. And you had a different approach than anyone else I've ever heard. You decide that you want to create something called a college moon. So take me into this.

• 16:21Speaker 05

  So yes, my daughter, well, let me also say, is an only child. So my only child is preparing essentially to leave the nest and go off to college. And you're right, I was in all the feelings for many reasons, which are in the book and we can talk about here certainly. But there was a sense, I think emotionally, I was very predisposed to this idea of losing her, quite frankly, like in some, as a sense of loss and grief that came with this very dynamic and beautiful moment. It's both dynamic and beautiful and exciting. And I'm over the moon for her of all the things that are gonna happen. And at the exact same time,

• 17:06Speaker 05

  I'm feeling this quiet ache that I don't know how to name. Do I have permission to name it? Who do I talk to about it? And within that, I wanted to freeze and hold time. I was very much aware that I was passing through the last, if you will, summer of her childhood. Or her childhood in the way I had been used to it, where, you know, we'd organize family trips. I knew that once she went up to college, she'd have her own plans that she wanted to do for summer, and it might not include me, or submitting any time with me whatsoever. So I wanted to seize this moment. And I thought, you know, quite frankly, the idea of a college moon, I cannot take credit for it.

• 17:51Speaker 05

  I was really in my desperation Googling like, what are like some things to do with your child before they leave to go off to college? And I came across this, you know, on the internet. And I thought, well, what's that? And then I loved an aspect of the idea, which is essentially carving out a bit of time with your child, one-on-one time to just be. And it's a way to, like a honeymoon, a couple is celebrating their nuptials and their wedding and having, you know, gone through the wedding and now we get to go rest and be together. She'd just gone through graduation, the joys of all of that. And I thought, what would, what would it look like if we had this trip? And so I thought it would be lovely to spend some one-on-one time with her.

• 18:33Speaker 05

  And so I said, well, let's go. I picked sort of the space, but I said, you pick the various itinerary points. But we're going to end the trip in Sicily. Because Sicily was a familiar place to us. We have personal and family history there. Her father, my late husband, is from Sicily. And we had not had, since the pandemic, time there alone. And I felt that we needed that. I thought it would be good for us. And that is really the jumping off point for the book, for the audiobook, is this idea of, we're going to take this trip. We're going to end in Sicily.

• 19:17Speaker 05

  Oh, and here is the additional element, which is that once we're in Sicily and we're settled. I want to invite Robert, who is my new husband. We are a blended family, and at that point, in the essence of the book, are relatively newly blended family. Let's all spend some time there together before this family changes. Because a child leaving home is a change in the family unit. And so that's really the starting point for the book.

• 19:50Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, it's interesting, right? Because so many of us have experienced our version of how do we handle this moment of transition? Because it's not just for the kid, it's for us. And if we're in a relationship, it's for us. And who we're in relationship with is that relationship is going to change. The quality of the home is going to change, like all these things. And yet, so often, we're just kind of like rushing through that time. And I realize also, a lot of kids that graduate high school, they're like, "Last summer with my friends. See you, Mom. See you, Dad." It's like, "We want nothing to do with you. We're just gonna run off." And until like, literally, that last moment they can possibly be with their friends. Okay, now you get to like, drive me to school or drop me off on the plane or something like that. Like, that's the extent of it. And you're much more intentional.

• 20:33Jonathan Fields?

  But you bring in this other, other aspect, which I wanted to tease out a little bit, which is, there's a complicated history here also. And, but there's a complicated history for so many people.

• 20:45Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 20:46Jonathan Fields?

  Like, yours is unique to you and your family situation and your history. But there are so many blended families. There are so many families where, you know, you've got kids from different parents who've come together into a new family. And then when you move through a moment like this, which is a huge one, how do you do this dance where you honor what you need, where you honor what your kid needs, where you honor what your partner needs? And if it's this scenario, what their kids need in a way that doesn't destroy the sacredness of the experience for anybody? And that's something that you write and talk about that I thought was really thoughtful.

• 21:23Jonathan Fields?

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• 22:08Jonathan Fields?

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• 23:54Speaker 01

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• 24:28Speaker 05

  Well, thank you. And that is really kind of where I found myself. And I think to talk about why, for my specific blended family, it was very charged, well, let me back up and say this. I am the child of several blended families. Okay? So, and in my adult life, I tried to blend families, prior to even the blended family that I'm in now. So, I realized in the writing of this, I'm sort of predisposed. I have a kind of imprint of like, really wanting this all to work out. You know, even the inner child in me is like, I want it all to work out.

• 25:07Speaker 05

  And I want to honor everyone's, my own's process and needs, but also that of my daughters and that of my husbands. And so, particularly for us as a blended family, you know, I knew that when my daughter left home, because we are blended, we are a blended family because of loss through death.

• 25:32Speaker 05

  That I knew that there was an underlying, um, there's always a hum of grief that is a part of our origin story, right? It just is. And although we had worked very hard to become very close, and I thought we were, in some ways, there was a little voice in me that was worried, like, well, what if she just goes off and she's like, oh, that's them and these newly married people and I'm not a part of that. Or, you know, she and my husband, her stepfather, really didn't gel and get along. And, you know, for, for many blended parents, there's always one parent who's in the center, kind of holding

• 26:15Speaker 05

  the two parts, all the parts of the blended together, and that was me. And so I was very much like, I want this to, to this work that we've done, this tapestry that we've woven together, I don't want it to fray. And, and, um, and so I felt a part of this trip was an, uh, an opportunity for us to create a new, new memories together, to sort of honor that closeness that we had, you know, uh, formed. And I think, you know, it's something I was really, really struggling with, and I didn't know who to talk to about that part of it. Like, I didn't expect that that was gonna come up with my child leaving home,

• 26:57Speaker 05

  this sort of larger issue of the family unit and closeness. And I know you cannot create intimacy between two people, right? That is their path and their relation to have. However, I did feel we could set up circumstances or opportunities for closeness, and then you see what happens. And this trip was a like, let's put us all in, you know, the same space, same time. Oh, and by the way, have gelato and, you know, you know, pasta and, you know, play a frolic in the sea. But really, the heartfelt intention of the trip was a kind of a closeness and a time together that I felt, let's see what

• 27:40Speaker 05

  happens. Because being a blended family is not It is not easy and you're right, you know, um, that season of graduation was a particular flashpoint wherein I could feel all everyone's different reactions and feelings around it, right? You know, you have me who's celebrating and happy, my daughter who is also happy, but there's an awareness of the person who's missing her late father, right? And then there's my new husband, her stepfather, who wants to plug in, but also doesn't want to overstep, but wants to leave space for the times when she and I might just need to fold into each other and he's not a part of that. So there are many things happening

• 28:21Speaker 05

  and I felt like this must be happening for lots of families, like lots of families. And what, what would writing about that and sharing just our little family story do to kind of create space to start conversations around it?

• 28:39Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. Yeah. And I think it is, it is such a relevant story for so many people. Again, they'll have their version of it. You have your facts, your version, your history, but everyone's going to have something there, especially blended families. There's always going to be an interesting and complex dynamic and you're trying to do right by everyone all the time, which of course is an impossible thing to ever even like try to do. Like all you can do is the best you can at any moment in time.

• 29:03Speaker 05

  Hello for being a mom.

• 29:04Jonathan Fields?

  Right. Exactly. Um, but it, it also brings up this notion of this dance that we do between time and presence. And this is something that is a part of this, you know, from the opening move, you know, where you start out by saying, I'm getting at the language wrong, but there's no future tense in the Sicilian language. Um, and you use that as a really interesting way to tee up this notion of, well, the bigger thing that's happening here is we are really playing with time and like dropping into the moment.

• 29:32Speaker 05

  Yes. That quote that I opened the audiobook with is something my mother-in-law said to me. And I'd been in Sicily and around Sicilians for more than a decade. And I, although I speak Italian and can understand Sicilian, I had never slowed down to actually listen to the fact.

• 29:53Speaker 05

  That there actually isn't a future tense, it's not used in Sicilians, particularly with the generation, my mother-in-law's generation. And so this idea that the future is not ours to have. So what we have is right now. It's another way of being in the moment, right? And Sicilians are also, interestingly enough, very focused on the past. Now, they have many different conjugation forms of the past. There's like the immediate past, the remote past, the like ultra, ultra-remote past. You can hang out in the past for forever. And then there's the present, but the future is very elusive. And so I begin the book at that place because I think I was really asking, what is the future for all of us?

• 30:37Speaker 05

  And I couldn't, I didn't have a clue, clearly, how could one know? But what I did have was this trip, this one now, this one summer, this one time that we'd carved out together. And I think that in some way, the book is born of that longing to really drop into the moment. I mean, I think many of us can relate to the fast-paced sped up nature of life in general for American families, for the ways life is now. And I also was seeking to like, put a pause on all of that, like just pause it and just be. And so, yes, that's the beginning of the book.

• 31:21Speaker 05

  I am driving, I'm alone, and I'm remembering something that my mother-in-law said to me many years ago as I am driving toward something that I'm not sure, I'm not sure what I will find.

• 31:34Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, and you know, it's all in the context of this, a couple of months, where there's such a strong impulse to be so future-focused. What's coming, what's not coming, all the plans we have to make, all the things we have to do. Like, and like, you're literally watching the days sort of like tick by and say, like, there, there's an expiration date on this moment for all of us, you know? And we gotta do all the things, we gotta plan, we gotta make sure like what's coming happens right and we're setting things up the best possible. And yet, like, the more you do that, the more you forsake like that, that moment that you're in. So it's like, it's so interesting that you then choose to say, let's go to Sicily, a time that effectively doesn't acknowledge the future.

• 32:17Jonathan Fields?

  As a way to opt out of this, at least for part of that, and just drop in, like, we have to physically take ourselves out of the environment we're in and go to this place where the ethos is so different that it almost forces us to just be here now.

• 32:32Speaker 05

  Jonathan, that particular summer I write about, well, I live in Los Angeles, so live in a large city. We were in all the planning mode, you know, for college and, you know, sheets need to be extra long, twin sheets, all the things, right? And I knew intuitively I was craving silence and quiet and stillness. And I knew Sicily could offer that. I knew firsthand, because I'd experienced it there. It was a place that I came to after Sardo, my late husband, passed away. I'd spent summers there with my daughter, really kind of trying to reform

• 33:14Speaker 05

  or form some new self, some new life for myself, some understanding of life after loss. And so to return to Sicily, which is a place where they don't talk about the future, a place that is ancient, where the cobblestones are old, where literally, you know, churches are built on top of mosques, you know, on top of temples. I mean, it just, the sense of ancientness is there. And the sense of everything being temporal is also there because you are confronting who you are in relation to

• 33:53Speaker 05

  the not only history of mankind on this particular place on the planet, but also there's a volcano on the island. So you're also looking at the history of the planet Earth itself, which is coughing up magma, you know, like every three hours at Mount Etna. And so you're very much aware, like, this is a fleeting moment. This time that I am living on the planet Earth is really small. And what do I want to make of it? How do I want to be in it? How do I want to be in relation with others? And ultimately, in relationship with myself. And I also didn't know, when I went on this trip, that it would also be a kind of, the word that's coming to my mind, and it's, I don't mean it in a negative sense,

• 34:36Speaker 05

  but a kind of interrogating, and I mean that in the most capacious sense, interrogating my own history, right, as a mother?

• 34:44Speaker 05

  As a wife, you know, there was a lot of, I had my own personal history to reflect on. And so Sicily became this canvas, this container upon which we could slow down time, just be, and at the very least, be in ancient waters and relax.

• 35:07Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm.

• 35:10Jonathan Fields?

  And I guess the curiosity here is when you do this, when you drop into that space and you have certain expectations, how can you not, right? We're all human, like as much as we want to surrender, like, oh, look, we're planning this whole thing, we're packing up the family, we're staging who's coming when, like with the things we want to do, things we got to see, people we got to talk to. You show up with expectations. When you get there, and this happens with so many of us when we're planning on some sort of adventure or experience, it's like we got it all set, right? And then you hit the ground, you're like, oh yeah, that's not gonna happen.

• 35:48Speaker 05

  Not, universe has other plans, like not. And that, you know, that, that dance between preparing and then letting go of your plans, a lot of that is kind of like a mini metaphor for like what I was doing in general in that stage of life, which is like you prepare, you plan, and you know, you hold on to your plan, and then you realize, okay, I gotta let that go. And it's the holding on and the letting go, the holding on and letting go, that, what I like to also think of as that expansion and contraction that is constantly happening in life, right? And to like be with the rhythm of that, like I've planned it, I've here, I've that. But if nothing else, Sicily will forever thwart your best plans.

• 36:32Speaker 05

  It is like grade A level, like, you know, it wins all the awards for like, you know, pulling the rug out from under you, just at the sense of, you know, at the, at the infrastructural level, at the like, you get to the restaurant and you plan the eight o'clock dinner, but they're like, oh, well, really, we'll see you at night. I mean, and at every turn, you surrender.

• 36:56Speaker 05

  You know, it invites a kind of surrender to the moment. And, you know, we certainly found that, you know, on, on the trip as well. So we planned certain things and then we left space open.

• 37:09Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, you're also doing this dance where you and your daughter do have history in this place. And memory is tied to that history and deeply personal memories tied to that history.

• 37:22Jonathan Fields?

  You and your current husband, different story. So like, how do you land in this space? And allow your daughter individually to experience it the way she needs to, you to experience it the way that you need to. You together to experience it. And then invite somebody new into a space that has deep, personal history and is in many ways sacred. And find a way not to bastardize or dishonor that experience, but create new sacred moments. And it's complicated.

• 37:54Speaker 05

  It was complicated, Jonathan. It was so complicated. And, you know, I began with sort of what I call like small bit planning. Like I could envision certain pieces. Okay, I could envision us, she and I getting there. And because the other new, the new part for she and I was the fact that when we went to Sicily together, we always stayed with my mother in law. That was where we stayed. Well, in the years between COVID and the summer that I write about in the book, my mother in law had passed away. So this was the first time that my daughter and I would be staying in a place that wasn't our home effectively. Right? And so that was already new enough. That was like, whoa, okay, that's its own sort of.

• 38:36Speaker 05

  So I had, I involved her in helping pick the place so that she had buy in on where we were staying. You know, folding in the fact that we didn't want to be too far from where her childhood summer friends, you know, could, could come and they could meet. We wanted enough familiarity and closeness, but we also needed, you know, something new. So we carved out also, the first part of the trip was just the two of us. So that she and I could do our own, the rituals we needed to do as mother and daughter.

• 39:09Speaker 05

  As the daughter-in-law and granddaughter of my mother-in-law, who is no longer with us, we wanted to visit her gravesite. We wanted time to trace our fingers along the texture of our lived experience and our history. And I needed space to do that first, before Robert ever got there. And I told my daughter that. I said, this is what feels right. How does this feel to you? And she felt that that felt good. And she was clear about where she needed boundaries. And I listened to that. I had to, right? Because I had no interest in the trip, you know, as I write about in the book, kind of blowing up in anybody's face.

• 39:53Speaker 05

  The whole point of this was to go gentle and go slow. So when we kind of nestled into that, then I had to turn to Robert and say, okay, well, I've negotiated all that with her. Now, here's what's happening. And, you know, he had his reluctance, you know? And I write about this. And, you know, he was like, I don't want to tread in a space that is yours. And I also said, but we also are a family now. And for you to be boxed out, if you will, of a whole part of our history and lives and a place also doesn't feel honoring. And so eventually, you know, he agrees.

• 40:38Speaker 05

  And then there became, when we got on the trip, like, okay, well, what are the things that we all do together? And what is that? How does that? How does everybody? And so I kind of was like, you know, as the project manager of this grand experiment, I said, you know, everybody gets to kind of like pick a day, or we're like, we just follow that person's plan for the day. And, you know, we did the best we could with it. It was imperfect, but it felt authentic to us. And if we had made a plan and then we didn't like it, we simply pulled out of it. Because the goal was really togetherness, not checking off the boxes of an itinerary, even if we had planned for them, right? And so I tried to be very flexible.

• 41:20Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

• 41:25Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by TinCan. So if you grew up in the 70s or 80s, you probably still remember your best friend's phone number and stretching the kitchen phone cord around the corner for privacy. Our executive producer, Lindsay, wanted that same freedom for her kids, eight and 10. So in January, she got them a TinCan. Now, friends call the house to chat, make plans, and check in without borrowing her phone. They even keep a handwritten phone book next to it. I kind of love that. TinCan is the new school way for kids to talk with their friends. It's a secure landline that lets them call all their favorite people, but with parental controls to keep them protected. No screens, no algorithms, no texting, just a phone being a phone. Kids can only call or be called by people on your approved list.

• 42:10Jonathan Fields?

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• 42:55Jonathan Fields?

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• 43:27Speaker 01

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• 44:01Jonathan Fields?

  In this context, you also, you introduced the myth of Persephone, which is tied to the island, but also is really relevant to this conversation. So I'll ask you to share a little bit about what the myth is also. And I'm curious, how does the myth of Persephone, how did it help you metabolize what you're experiencing?

• 44:18Speaker 05

  Oh, you have really gone to the heart of the matter, haven't you, Jonathan? Okay, well, Sicily is known as Persephone's Island. So in Greek mythology, Persephone was on the island of Sicily, where Hades pulls her into the underworld. She is the daughter of Demeter. And her mother, Demeter, in the grief and the loss of her daughter, who can't find her, roams the island of Sicily in grief and blights the landscape, quite frankly, which is through drought, winter, all of that. And then it's only when she makes a pact with Hades

• 45:03Speaker 05

  that her daughter, in the mythology, gets to come rise up for six months out of the year. And that is when the island of Sicily is the most verdant. It's spring and summer. And she is at peace as a mother. She is alive again. She is able to see her daughter. She feels safe with her. And so I've always, my entire time going back and forth to Sicily, because my late husband loved mythology. And when Zoella was little, they read all these mythology books. And there's a great book called Persephone's Island. And I'm drawing a blank on the author as we speak, because that happens this age. And so I knew of the myth, because it was read as a bedtime story.

• 45:45Speaker 05

  And I knew of the myth historically related to the island of Sicily. But being there... At the eve of my daughter leaving home

• 45:58Speaker 05

  and going away and not knowing, I mean, I knew physically where she would be in college, but I wouldn't have eyes on, right, that she was stepping into a life that would be largely invisible to me. And I didn't know who she would meet along the way and what influence they might or might not have on her. It's a letting go.

• 46:19Speaker 05

  And so now I am seeing this Demeter Persephone myth through new eyes. You know, I'm the mom in the story. And, you know, although, you know, I don't think that, you know, a dark force from the underworld is going to take her away from me in the way that the myth that is in the myth. I did feel that primal sense of longing for your child. And I could relate to that idea of

• 46:51Speaker 05

  the grief that a mother has in that way. And then the joy that a mother can have in reconnecting with their child. And so I wrestled with that mythology and with that story. And with the fact that at one point I had been Persephone. I was the one who'd gone on the adventure and left home and, you know, I didn't talk to my parents for who knows how long, you know, back in the days before, you know, email and cell phones and all of that, you know, I was, my, my life was largely invisible to them. And so I bring that up in the book because it is something that I'm wrestling with. And I thought, well, what better way

• 47:35Speaker 05

  to think about the seasons of life as a mother, the season, the seasons in general than here in Sicily? Because that is, Sicilians tell the story as a story of the seasons, the natural maternal earthly seasons of their island. It's a way they explain summer and fall and winter, spring through the eyes of Persephone and Demeter. That was a surprise to me. And so I had to, because it kept coming up, I thought, well, I've got to. As I do as a writer, write to that and explore what that means.

• 48:13Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I think we're all doing that dance of navigating seasons. And especially as a parent, like when you have a kid of a certain age, who these days often is out of the house and then they're back and then they're out of the house and then they're back. You experience that sort of like rotation, like in and out and in and out. And certainly, like if you look at the data these days, a lot of us are going to have some level of that rotation, probably until our kids are in their late twenties or even thirty.

• 48:39Speaker 05

  For sure.

• 48:39Jonathan Fields?

  The world is changing.

• 48:40Speaker 05

  And they've been doing that in Europe, in Italy for forever. I mean, people didn't leave home until twenty eight, twenty nine, until they married. I mean, that was just normative, you know, there. The economics and the culture dictated that. And now we are experiencing that a lot here as well.

• 48:55Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, we've been talking about Sicily largely as a place, but it really is a character in this story. And I think, again, for you, it's Sicily. For so many of us, we have that thing and we're like, oh, it's over there. It's that place, it's that city, it's that town. But there's a bigger presence, bigger role that it plays in our stories that I think we often discount. Because I feel like place is so connected to identity in certain ways and also to just our sense of who we are and how and where we belong and don't belong. And it's funny, as I'm saying this, my wife, part of my wife's family is actually Sicilian.

• 49:40Jonathan Fields?

  And, you know, like for years, we would on Christmas and Easter, you know, like you're at the house and at some point the phone is going to ring.

• 49:47Speaker 05

  Oh, it's definitely gonna work.

• 49:50Jonathan Fields?

  It's the old dial-up phone with the long, like crinkled cord, which then gets passed around the table to whoever is old enough to still speak Italian, like here, like in New York, gets passed around and you can hear, you know, like the Sicilian, like very loud volume coming from the other side of the phone. Just like deep, deep, deep tradition that was carried like through many generations and across an ocean. And but there was always this sense of, this wasn't just a place that you go to visit. This is a living, breathing place where you are shaped or changed. And I wonder if when you have that sense of identity with a place. That the feeling that you get when you're somewhere like that is a feeling

• 50:34Jonathan Fields?

  that you need to keep going back to that place to feel, or whether you can bring it home with you.

• 50:40Speaker 05

  That that question has been a question that has dangled in my soul for years, if not decades.

• 50:52Speaker 05

  So there are two places for me on the planet where when I find myself,

• 51:01Speaker 05

  and I I've mentioned this briefly in one of the chapters in the book, that my orientation, my understanding of who I am come into a new focus. And one place is East Texas, which is where my family is from, all my ancestors. And

• 51:22Speaker 05

  that is where I have so much deep, deep, deep cellular ancestral memory, living history.

• 51:34Speaker 05

  So it always sort of felt strange to me that I would feel a version of a similar kind of feeling state

• 51:44Speaker 05

  on land that I have no biological connection to, right? There's I have no ancestors in Sicily. So I always felt like, what is it about this place that is evoking this for me? This is so strange. And I challenged it and I questioned it. And did I have a right to even feel as though I belong to a place where I don't have history in that in a sort of ancestral sense? Where I've evolved over many years is an awareness that what happens for me in Sicily is, one, a part of my literal shared history. I've spent so much time there and my connection to my late husband and my connection to family and so many memories there.

• 52:29Speaker 05

  But there is also something about Sicily in particular, which I think is more at a cellular, at the level of the geography, the planetary, that that space, what it does for me at a cellular level, sun, wind, sea. It relaxes my nervous system. My set point. Reaches a space that is so beautiful that I can kind of connect vertically to spirit. And, you know, that's a beautiful thing. And so when I experience that, when I'm there, I'm often asking myself, how do I bring that back to LA, which is where I live and where I work and where I really spend,

• 53:12Speaker 05

  you know, a lot of my time. And that question has always been, you know, kind of at the forefront of my mind when I'm leaving there. Because I'm always like, I'm gonna miss this place so much. You know, there's this saying in Sicily, Sicily makes you cry two times. You cry when you arrive and you cry when you leave.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  And if, and if you understand this joke, you'll, you'll, you'll understand what, what this means is like you cry, you're like, oh, my God, I'm back in this place again, where like the road is closed and like I, you know, I need to get this done and I can't get it done because infrastructure will drive you insane.

• 53:46Speaker 05

  And then, but gosh, it seeps into you and then you cry when you leave. So for me, that answer has been about, how do I bring a place with me wherever I go? Because I don't, we may not always have the privilege. I have not always had the privilege of being able to go and be there. I mean, the pandemic certainly gave us that moment where I thought, I don't know if I'm ever getting back there. One of the things that I have done for myself, and we were chatting about this a little bit before we formally started having our conversations, I carry stones with me. I bring a physical piece of that place with me as a literal reminder, a vibrational talisman, if you will,

• 54:29Speaker 05

  that when I hold it, I can feel vibrationally that connection to that place. So I do that. I also have a home garden that has

• 54:41Speaker 05

  Sicilian foods in it and, you know, like, you know, Italian oregano and rosemary and the things that sort of like also allow me to consume, if you will, bits of a place. And then I do that thing that you just talked about, which is like, I call the relatives and I talk to them and that makes me feel close. But I've come now to really deeply understand that after many years of going back and forth and back and forth. That when you have a deep connection to a place, it imprints you so deeply that I actually can, at times when I'm particularly stressed

• 55:22Speaker 05

  or there's a lot going on, I can visualize a particular locale in that place that is so endowed with beauty and memory and peace and ease and love and grace. And I can bring it to my mind's eye and I'm there. And I can get that same nervous system reset that I get when I'm actually physically there. But it took me a long time to get there. And what I hope is that one of the things people might take away from listening to the book is that we can have that with the places that matter to us. Wherever that place is, you know, I have a friend who loves a particular area of Central Park.

• 56:06Speaker 05

  That's far, very far from Sicily, but it's her spot. And no matter what's going on, it gives her that.

• 56:13Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm. I had my own spot in Central Park that was like that.

• 56:18Speaker 05

  Did you? Did you?

• 56:20Jonathan Fields?

  I think I, being a longtime New Yorker, probably did.

• 56:22Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 56:22Jonathan Fields?

  It was like you have to have your survival spots in a city like that.

• 56:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, you really do. And, and also I learned recently through somatic, some therapeutic somatic work that I've been doing, that there is something called, and you may know of this, listeners may know of this, but a place that is charged with a lot of negative ions

• 56:43Speaker 05

  actually, literally changes your nervous system and resets your nervous system. And a lot of trees and greenery, you will experience a lot of negative ions. And so therefore it makes sense that Central Park in New York City would be the place that you would gravitate toward, you know, and feel that.

• 57:02Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I love the notion, though, of becoming so deeply familiar with a place and the way that it makes you feel and the senses of that place, that you, over time, cultivate the ability to step back into that space through intention, no matter where you are, or at least not fully, but at least get enough of it so that you can kind of bring it along with you and affect you on a nervous system. I think so many of us aspire to be able to do that, especially in the world we're living in right now, where we feel

• 57:31Speaker 05

  Oh, absolutely.

• 57:32Jonathan Fields?

  a lot of it is untethered and outside of our control. And it's like, what is your version of that, I think, is the inquiry there. It's like, and maybe you have to go back in time to find it.

• 57:41Speaker 05

  You know, what's interesting, I thank you for bringing it up, because the thing that I observed when I was in Sicily, and this is mentioned briefly, you know, the symbol of Sicily, one of the symbols is the pine, the pine tree, but it's really the cone. You'll see it on, in ceramics, all over the island and whatnot. And if we know anything about the natural world, you know, we know that trees across the planet are all interconnected at the root system level, right? That is something that people can go and research, but there's science that bears this to be true.

• 58:20Speaker 05

  And I asked myself, well, if the pine trees here in Sicily are connected in some way to the pine trees of East Texas, then it's all connected. And it's all connected in me. And that's, that felt very comforting.

• 58:41Jonathan Fields?

  You end with a simple Italian phrase about letting the day find you.

• 58:48Speaker 05

  Dolce far niente, the sweetness of doing nothing.

• 58:56Speaker 05

  That phrase is always a phrase, even just saying it.

• 59:04Speaker 05

  Literally is like, oh yeah, that's an option. That's a choice. Like, oh, there's also that in the world. But, you know, it's used in Italy as, you know, people call upon it and there it is a part of the culture of like, there's value in, and there's sweetness

• 59:26Speaker 05

  in doing nothing, just being. And I wanted to end the book there, even as a reminder to myself, because I have to be reminded of that, right? This highly like productive do, go, all that stuff. But in the sweetness of doing nothing, I think is where I have found my connection

• 59:52Speaker 05

  to the love that is ever-present, always. To others, to nature, to

• 1:00:01Speaker 05

  time, space, all of it. And if we slow down and we lean into the sweetness of doing nothing. And it's hard sometimes to do nothing. It's really hard. You know, but even if you do it for five minutes, three minutes, there's a kind of power there. And I wanted to end the book there because in the arc of the relations that I write about in the book, the arc of my motherhood up until the events of the book, I wanted to have an invitation to myself that it's okay going forward in this future that is not spoken of, to just be. Just be.

• 1:00:46Jonathan Fields?

  And that actually feels like a great place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase, "to live a good life," what comes up?

• 1:00:57Speaker 05

  Um, to me, to live a good life is to live in close, intimate, and authentic relation with the people that you closest to you, that you choose to love, chosen family, friends. To me, that is such it's where all the sweetness is for me, is that being able to be fully seen, heard, felt, and authentic in those spaces. And also, I would add, if you can do that with yourself and your deepest dreams and desires, to be in a kind of ongoing conversation with your own inherent joys and desires.

• 1:01:42Speaker 05

  That's, that's, to me, is like where all the goodness is.

• 1:01:45Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm, thank you.

• 1:01:47Speaker 05

  Thank you, Jonathan. I've so enjoyed this conversation. It's really been a gift.

• 1:01:53Jonathan Fields?

  Hey, if you loved this episode, Steve, but you'll also love the conversation we had with Suleika Jawad about turning illness and upheaval into creating meaning and wonder. You can find the link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube, too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did, because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a seven second favor, share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome, too. But just one person even,

• 1:02:38Jonathan Fields?

  then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter. Because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

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