Ever Have One of Those Moments That Changes Everything? | Tara Roberts

Unlock the hidden depths within on a profound journey of ancestral healing. In this powerful conversation, National Geographic Explorer Tara Roberts shares her extraordinary odyssey sparked by a single photograph, leading her to confront shadowed histories and reclaim her place in an interconnected world. Tara's breathtaking memoir, Written in the Waters: A Memoir of History, Home and Belonging https://amzn.to/3ZTDJZo, charts a course for reckoning with the past to find true belonging. You can find Tara at: Website https://www.tararoberts.me/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tararoberts_explorer | Into the Depths podcast https://episodes.fm/1604457921 | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/ancestry-shipwrecks-scuba-diving-tara-roberts If you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Natalie Baszile https://episodes.fm/647826736/episode/Z2lkOi8vYXJ0MTktZXBpc29kZS1sb2NhdG9yL1YwL0tHbUhORXBBbUprUmNjTU1HQjhWNTNXb2dpTWEwNTVVQnBtRVUzSThlams about the rich history of Black people and land and community and resilience and farming, especially in the United States. Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the Wheel https://jonathanfields.substack.com/aboutVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So have you ever felt like you're just disconnected from a sense of purpose? Kind of like you're meant for something different, something deeper, something bigger, yet you can't quite put your finger on what that is? Sometimes it takes a random moment bundled with a profound act of courage to change everything. After years of trying to figure out how to live the life she wanted and build a career that truly lit her up, my guest today, Tara Roberts, had just such a moment. A chance discovery of a single photograph launched her into uncharted waters, leaving behind everything to follow her curiosity and a call she just knew had to be pursued, even though she had no idea where it would lead if anywhere.

• 0:42Jonathan Fields?

  With barely a thread to pull on, that one photo led Tara to track down a team of black scuba divers who had devoted themselves to uncovering and preserving slave ship remnants worldwide, and she just had to be a part of it, not just the telling of their story, but becoming a part of it, even training in scuba and joining the dive team herself, having zero experience before that. And this pursuit cracked open just deep ancestral memories buried for generations, sparking a profound awakening. It led to a collaboration with National Geographic that eventually found her name National Geographic Explorer of the Year and landed her on the cover of the magazine, the very same one she'd fallen in love with and lost herself in as a child.

• 1:26Jonathan Fields?

  Tara's powerful new memoir, Written in the Waters, a memoir of history, home, and belonging, offers a beautiful exploration of the courage required to confront our shadows. Through vulnerability and wisdom, she just illuminates a breathtaking path for healing the past. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless gold flake caviar topping. It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019. That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2% daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market. Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound means I just got 2% daily cash back on my latest purchase. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Apple Card, issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  Cheers to fall savings at Whole Foods Market, home of higher ingredient standards. This Halloween, share chocolates and candies made without that spooky high fructose corn syrup. Throwing a party? Make it easy with a berry chantilly cake. Ready to cook pizza? No antibiotics ever chicken wings. And sushi made fresh daily. Fall gatherings never tasted better. Save through November 3rd at Whole Foods Market.

• 3:10Speaker 03

  This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies, to PPE, to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 3:43Jonathan Fields?

  It seems like for you, there's a year, 2017, which becomes this just giant pivot, moment of awakening, big inciting incident in that year. And I want to deepen to what happens in that year and then where it leads to and how it's really, it leads to an entirely new adventure and almost like season of life. But I also want to talk a little bit before we even get there about what life looks like leading up to that. You had spent years in the magazine world as both founding your own publication, editing, then spending a year or so backpacking around the world, really discovering young women who were doing just amazing things and then starting a nonprofit to help discover these women

• 4:29Jonathan Fields?

  and then see if you can actually help them fund their dreams. Talk to me a little bit about what does life look like for you leading up to 2017?

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Such a good question. Yeah, so I'll flashback to 2015 because 2016 was the big move. And then 2017, stuff started to happen. But in 2015, I was living in Atlanta. I'd been running my nonprofit for about six years at that point. And quite honestly, we were struggling. Running a nonprofit is never easy and trying to find funding, trying to make sure you're on mission. And we were trying to support young women changemakers from all over the world. So it also didn't have a clear country status. Like we're, we're trying to do this sort of global work, which made fundraising a little bit tricky.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  I also, like I was living on crumbs and I wanted to devote as much time as I could to this work. So I didn't want to have a real job, you know, where it would take my, my mental power away. So I was working like in a $10 an hour museum job.

• 5:46Jonathan Fields?

  It's like $10 an hour museum job by day and nonprofit founder and world changer by night. Which is actually not so unusual in the story of nonprofit founders who don't have these super high profile mega funding backgrounds. Like they're Tens of thousands in a really similar situation.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, it's true. Running a nonprofit is not easy. Like, my hats are off to all the people in this space who are making it work. I found it really challenging and my superpower is in none of that. You know, I had on my admin hat, my fundraising hat, my programmatic hat, like, all of these hats that were not hats that I would ordinarily put on. So I was also feeling tired, a bit off purpose. My work has been as a journalist and as a storyteller,

• 6:48Speaker 04

  but I've been so far away from that work. So 2015, I was struggling a bit and trying to figure out what to do next. And then I saw this spiritual psychic person who very quickly confirmed that I wasn't where I needed to be and that I actually needed to, in her world, I should step away from the nonprofit, like, with a quickness.

• 7:24Jonathan Fields?

  How does that land with you when you hear that? Because it seems like, you know, this is so much of your heart at that point.

• 7:29Speaker 04

  Oh, it was devastating. This was my baby. And like, how do you step away from your baby? I put six years of my life into this, all my savings, like, all the things. I went all in for this nonprofit. I decided that I did need to step away, but I had like a two-year plan. I'm like, okay, I have to get somebody to step in. We've got to train, we've got to get it moving. But I saw her in October and she was like, by the end of the year, you need to step away from this job. And I was like, what are you, are you kidding? What? I can't do that.

• 8:08Jonathan Fields?

  You're like, thanks, but you know, like, I have to live in the real world.

• 8:11Speaker 04

  Right, right. But what's amazing is stuff happened that made what she suggested come true. I happened to have a friend who I hadn't talked to. This is way too much information. No, it's good, it's good. It's good, okay. Well, the story is before I spoke to her, I'd gone to a friend's wedding, a friend that I hadn't seen in a long time. And some of our mutual friends showed up at this wedding. And so one guy, I met all these friends in India, hadn't really seen them in a long time. And this one guy that I saw had just started, no, he'd already been working for this nonprofit

• 8:56Speaker 04

  that had offices in the US. And so we hadn't seen each other in a long time. And when we did, he was like, I'm in DC, you're in Atlanta, we should hang out. But you know how you say those things and then nothing really happens? So we had this connection in August. Then I see the psychic reader in October, she's like, step away. It's so funny, I think maybe a week later, and I'm in tears, just like, how do I do? What do I do? I don't know. A week later, that friend reached out to me. And he was like, I've been invited to speak at a conference in Atlanta and I was gonna say no to it, but I don't know, I just thought about you. And I was like, we said we should hang out.

• 9:41Speaker 04

  So what, are you there? If you're there, I'll come. And I was like, oh my God, that would be amazing. So he comes and I tell him, and he said, you know, I think your nonprofit was great. You did some good work, but I've always thought that you should be working for my nonprofit. Like it's a bigger footprint, had a really.

• 10:07Speaker 04

  Deep space in the social entrepreneurial world. And he was like, you need to come work for us. And I was like, yeah. He was like, trust me, just send me your resume. So I did. And by November, by December, they had offered me a job. And the job was in Washington DC. And even though it was still a step in the nonprofit world, it was a job that was a little bit closer to storytelling. It wasn't storytelling, but it was work in communications. And I was like, well, at least this would be a step back. And maybe this does make sense. And I found another person in the organization who really did want to step up and become the leader.

• 10:51Speaker 04

  So by January, I had an offer. There was a new person that had stepped up to the organization and I was free to move on to the next experience. So I did move to DC. And I think the universe works in just surprising ways because that job got me to DC. And it was a great job, like it's a great company, it's a great job. But I found quickly that it also wasn't quite it. Like this doing communications work is adjacent to journalism and storytelling, but it's really not that. And I don't think I realized that fully before.

• 11:36Speaker 04

  So I was like, wow, this isn't quite it either.

• 11:41Jonathan Fields?

  Right, you find yourself in a new city. This thing that you built for six years, you've kind of handed off at this point. You're in a new place, doing something where you think this is the next thing. And then you have this growing awareness that maybe not so much. And yet you've, you've left the thing behind. And I'm guessing like you're not thinking about going back to that at this point.

• 12:00Speaker 04

  Definitely not, no, no, no, no. And this is also what was happening for me. So now we're in 2016. And this was a year, if you reflect back to that time, it was a year when conversations of race were big on the national stage in a way that they hadn't been in a long time. And all of my work before this had been in the gender equity space. So I've been trying to support women and girls all over the world and helping them, yeah, just have more agency and more support.

• 12:35Speaker 04

  And that I thought was happening, not just because of my work. It felt like there was a huge global effort, at least over the last 20 years, where things for women and girls have really shifted. We still got a ways to go, but there was a marked difference. And so I was feeling like this was right for me to step away from the gender equity work. And I was really interested in stepping into the racial healing space because I really wanted to just help heal the space in some way. But I didn't know what to do. Like, this wasn't my world fully.

• 13:16Speaker 04

  I mean, I am a Black woman, so it is sort of always my world, but not really. And I tried to bring this lens to the nonprofit, which was doing some work in the space, but that wasn't their core mission. They had other things that they were trying to accomplish. And the work that they were doing didn't feel like enough for me. Like, I wanted to just go deeper. So I'm in this moment. If we trace back to what is the moment like? Where I've moved to this new city, as you just said. I'm working at a job that doesn't feel like it's quite the right fit. I want to be doing more work of service in a different space, and I don't know what to do. That's where I was. And I was feeling off mission.

• 14:02Jonathan Fields?

  What does that feel like?

• 14:04Speaker 04

  It felt horrible. I felt depressed, probably eating too much, not exercising. I just didn't feel in my power. And I wasn't, by the way, like, I realized I wasn't that good at communications work either. I was like, I kept forgetting stuff. I'm like, oh, right, I need to be doing this. And I was responsible for social media. And I'm like, I don't really know what I'm doing. So I also wasn't showing up, I think, in a great way for my team. I was trying the best I could, but it wasn't one of my superpowers. So I'm feeling like I'm failing at the work that I am doing. I just felt...

• 14:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, like there's a yearning inside. Or actually, it's not a yearning. It's just a discomfort inside. Where I didn't feel right in my own skin. And I didn't know how to solve it.

• 15:02Jonathan Fields?

  And that, you know, you're describing your very personal circumstance at that moment. But how many other people have hit a moment similar to that? Where they're like, just the sensations and the emotions, the feelings you just described. They're just like swimming in that. And especially, you know, like, once you've, you're a little further into life and you do have a skill set and you do have a track record and you do have things you're passionate about. And then you wake into this moment that says, I'm not leveraging those capabilities. And I'm also not, quote, on mission. Or maybe I'm on mission, but it's somebody else's mission. It's not the thing that's speaking from me. It's speaking to me.

• 15:44Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 15:45Jonathan Fields?

  And that's a hard moment.

• 15:47Speaker 04

  Yeah. And especially to come from having run your own thing. So you're making decisions about where you're going and where you're not going. And suddenly you're in a space where you're not able to make those sort of decisions. And you are in a support role. You're on a team. And so you have to be a team player. And I am fortunate that I worked with really phenomenal individuals who are change makers in their own right, up to doing great work in the world. But this race thing just, like, it was just calling me.

• 16:21Jonathan Fields?

  So you're trying to figure out your way through this experience. What happens? What happens that changes things?

• 16:30Speaker 04

  Something that I never could have predicted. Here we are in 2017. And how fortunate that I'm in DC in this moment when the National Museum of African American History and Culture opens. And it was a big deal when that museum opened. You know, that museum is, I don't know, it took like 20 years to build or more. It's a price tag of like half a billion. And it's the first museum of its kind on the National Mall. So it was a big deal. And I have to note, like, I wasn't that interested in history. Like, I was not a museum goer. I'm like, oh, I guess, you know, museums, whatever.

• 17:15Speaker 04

  Even though I was working for a museum before I left Atlanta. But that's not my jam. But this museum, because it was such a big deal, I felt like I had to go. And especially because I lived in DC at the time. So I was like, I have to go. But I tried to get tickets for like six months and couldn't get tickets. It was, you know, it was a hot property. But then, one day, someone at the job got extra tickets for the museum. And so on this day, I decided to play hooky.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  Sorry, everybody. That's what I was doing that day that I didn't show up for work. But I decided to play hooky and go to the museum. And I decided to take my time going through this museum. So I went slowly. I tried to read like all the exhibits. And it's, it's a big museum with a lot of history in it. I went through the bottom, which, you know, the bottom starts in like the 1500s, the 1600s. So it's telling older history. And it takes you up, I don't know. Actually, I don't remember if it takes you to reconstruction or if it takes you a little after that. But it's the, the top floors that have, you know, like all the exciting stuff where you've got

• 18:34Speaker 04

  cultural impacts of African Americans on the culture. You've got a lot of the wins and a lot of the accomplishments. But because I was going slow and I was trying to take it all in, before I could get to those floors, I ended up on the second floor, which is this tiny floor that most people skip. Because it really is, it's a tiny floor. It's like an archival floor. So people go there to do research. But there are a couple of exhibits on that floor. And there was one exhibit that had a picture in it that completely stopped me in my tracks. It was a picture of a group of primarily black women.

• 19:17Speaker 04

  In wet suits on a boat, hugging an older black gentleman. Jonathan, I'd never seen a picture of black women in wet suits on a boat before. Like, I'd never seen that. And I was like, oh, my goodness. They looked so beautiful to me. They looked so free and so joyous. And what's really amazing is that I've gone back and I've looked at that picture. I have a picture of that picture on my computer. And it is not a picture that should have stopped me in my tracks. Like, it's not like this gorgeous portrait. It's a normal, it's almost like a photo. It's just like a snapshot.

• 20:00Speaker 04

  I mean, they're posing a little bit, but like, it's a regular picture. But for whatever reasons, in that moment, it stopped me. Almost felt like the heavens parted and angels were singing. Like, it was like a spotlight on that picture. And I just remember staring at it. And I think one of the reasons why it struck me so much is because when I was younger, I used to be a nerd. I still am a nerd. Like, I love to read books. Makes me so happy to, like, fall into a book and to fall into someone else's world. And, yeah, when I was growing up, I read a lot of books.

• 20:45Speaker 04

  My mother was a reading teacher. And she used to go to these reading conferences all over the country. And publishers would show up at these reading conferences because they wanted teachers to adopt their books. And so my mom would, like, you know, get books for me. And she would come home with these boxes of books, and I loved it. And the books that I loved the most were Fantasy sci fi books. That's also probably a reason why I didn't love museums. Because I was either in my imagination or I was somewhere in the future.

• 21:21Jonathan Fields?

  It's like, this is concrete and it's the past.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 21:24Jonathan Fields?

  So interesting.

• 21:25Speaker 04

  But so I developed this love of fantasy then. And particularly loved, I still do. Like, I still read young adult fantasy books, like more than anything. I'm up on top of like, all the new authors. I'm like, oh yeah, I read that series and it was really good. But I love stories of like the characters who are on quests. And they're out to save the kingdom in some way. You know, they got their swords or their, you know, little bit of magic inside of them. And they've got their trusty comrades and they're out to save the kingdom. I devoured books like that.

• 22:06Speaker 04

  But as I grew older, I just started to see that none of the characters in those books ever looked like me, never. Most of the books that had characters that looked like me were about struggle or trauma or tragedy. They were very rarely about wonder or curiosity or magic. So I think somewhere in my mind, I began to believe that that type of adventurous life isn't for me. I mean, I knew I didn't have ma- like, I wasn't gonna go out with a sword and save the kingdom. But I still, like, I always imagined that I would be a storyteller.

• 22:49Speaker 04

  But I thought I really wanted to be an adventurous storyteller. Like, I wanted to be out in the world, losing myself inside of other cultures and other people and telling like adventurous stories, hiking somewhere, like living in a tent, you know, like just doing really, really sort of adventurous storytelling. But I really stopped believing that I could do that. So to see that picture and to see these women who were scuba divers, I think that's why it sparked something in me. And I was also in this moment where I'm like, what am I doing with myself? Who am I? Like, what am I doing? And so I stopped, like their picture stopped me.

• 23:34Speaker 04

  But then I read to find out who they were and what they were doing. And I found out that they were a part of this group called Diving with a Purpose, and that their mission was to help search for and document slave shipwrecks around the world. And I was like, are you freaking kidding me? What? They're doing what? That's amazing. Like, not only are they adventurers, but they're on a real-life quest to change something. And they're changing something inside of this conversation of race, because they're bringing these stories back into memory. So I sat there for like an hour, and I Googled them. I tried to read everything I could about them.

• 24:19Speaker 04

  The exhibit was one of those exhibits where you could, um, it's interactive. So you could pretend like you were excavating a ship. I stayed there for like 30 minutes playing with the exhibit and just feeling lightness in my body. Once again, and my body had felt so heavy before this, so like full of darkness and tiredness and, ugh. But in that moment, I just felt so light.

• 24:51Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless gold flake caviar topping. It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019. That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2% daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market. Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound? Means I just got 2% daily cash back on my latest purchase.

• 25:36Speaker 05

  Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Subject to credit approval. Apple Card issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 25:45Speaker 02

  Cheers to fall savings at Whole Foods Market, home of higher ingredient standards. This Halloween, share chocolates and candies made without that spooky high fructose corn syrup. Throwing a party? Make it easy with a berry chantilly cake. Ready to cook pizza? No antibiotics ever chicken wings. And sushi made fresh daily. Fall gatherings never tasted better. Save through November 3rd at Whole Foods Market.

• 26:13Speaker 03

  This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 26:47Jonathan Fields?

  I guess you discover through, you know, really deepening into this also that, okay, so this isn't a snapshot just of history. This is actually going on now.

• 26:57Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 26:57Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, like this isn't something where, oh, how cool that they're out there and they did this thing. And what an amazing thing. And what, you know, they, they explored and they had this impact. And you're like, they're actually doing this now.

• 27:13Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:13Jonathan Fields?

  You know, this is not over.

• 27:15Speaker 04

  No.

• 27:16Jonathan Fields?

  And I'm guessing the seed just gets planted pretty strongly. Like, okay, so if they're doing this now, how do I be a part of this?

• 27:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. I have to say, so I'm not a scuba diver. Did we talk about, I'm from Atlanta, Georgia, which, you know, is landlocked. Like, I, I didn't, I didn't know anything about the ocean.

• 27:37Speaker 04

  But I did love the water and I was a swimmer. I would swim in pools all the time. And I love the water, like I love to swim. So there was something that was really beautiful to me about this work that they were doing in the water. And at the same time, I didn't know if I could do that.

• 28:00Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, you're a storyteller.

• 28:02Speaker 04

  Right?

• 28:03Jonathan Fields?

  It's like all of your past is like behind a camera, like writing, editing, doing all this stuff, communicating, advocating, not strapping on tanks and a mask and like going down underwater.

• 28:15Speaker 04

  No, no, I was like, I don't know about that. But I do feel called to them. So, and this is again, this is the universe, I think, works in really beautiful ways. Because if I was not working for the nonprofit that I was working for, I wonder if I had, I would have reached out. Because I decided these people probably need funding. And my nonprofit gave out grants to people doing extraordinary work in the world. So I wasn't thinking, oh, I will become a diver with them initially. I was just like, how can I help support them?

• 28:58Speaker 04

  And so I reached out and the gentleman in the photo, this gentleman named Ken Stewart, who at the time was 72 years young. I reached out to Ken and he's like wonderful and so welcoming and warm. And I was like, hey, you know, I work for this nonprofit. I came across your picture in the museum. I'm like, I don't know, do you guys need funding? Can I nominate you for a grant from my nonprofit? And he was so funny, he was like, what? You got money? Yeah, we need money. Yes, yes. So I, um, I reached, I decided to nominate him and I reached out to the folks at the nonprofit.

• 29:42Speaker 04

  I'm like, I met this incredible man and there's this incredible group that's doing this fantastic work. I think we should support it. And the group was excited about him. And they were like, oh, my God, let's start some conversations. So we started, um, I think we had maybe three conversations, long conversations, where they were trying to figure out, is this the right fit? And ultimately, they decided that it wasn't. And that's because my organization really supported social entrepreneurs. And there's a certain language, there's a certain focus that you have to have around systemic change. And Ken, he's of a different generation. He doesn't speak social entrepreneurial speak.

• 30:27Speaker 04

  So he just didn't hit the notes that they would need him to hit for their board to approve him. So that didn't work out, but maybe it was never supposed to work out. Because Ken and I became friends. And then he is the one that said the magic words and gave me the entree that maybe I wouldn't have given myself. In our last conversation about the work of the nonprofit, he said to me, um, and he typically calls me by my full name. He just likes to say that, but he was like, Tara Roberts, do you know that you live in the epicenter of black scuba diving? And I was like, what are you talking about?

• 31:12Speaker 04

  I live in DC. And he was like, that's what I'm talking about. All the incredible cats are right there in DC. And I was like, are you serious? He's like, yes, the guy who founded the National Association of Black Scuba Divers, this guy named Dr. Albert Jose Jones, right there in DC. The oldest black scuba diving club in the United States, right there in DC. A lot of the instructors for diving with a purpose, right there in DC. So he was like, do you want to come dive with us? He was like, if you want to come dive with us, I will get you in a class immediately. And I was like, Yes, yes, yes, yes, I do. I want to do it. Yes.

• 31:57Speaker 04

  So Ken got me into the club. It's called the Underwater Adventure Seekers. They have been around since the 1950s. It's incredible, like the 1950s. And they had a class that had just started. So Ken, the way the universe works. So he got me in the class and it was there. I still wasn't thinking about doing storytelling. I was just so excited to have permission to be a part of the work. And I just wanted to help. I was like, well, I want to dive and help bring this this history back into memory. But as I trained with them, and they are serious trainers.

• 32:39Speaker 04

  Like you can go get your scuba certification in a weekend at a resort. Not with the underwater adventure seekers. They are like, no, no, no, we treat this very seriously. So it's a three month long course. We spent one day a week in the pool. And then a second day of the week in the classroom with our textbooks. So like three months, no joke, learning, learning, learning. And it was during that process that I got to know the divers. And I was like, these are some of the most incredible human beings. All volunteers, generous, kind, funny, crazy. I was like, wow.

• 33:22Speaker 04

  And then I also got to know a bit more about the work of diving with a purpose and more about the ships. And I was just like, wow, people should know about this work. They should know about what these divers are doing. It's incredible. And then I was like, wait a minute, I'm a journalist, I'm a storyteller. Ah, maybe I could help tell the story.

• 33:46Jonathan Fields?

  It's all coming together.

• 33:47Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:48Jonathan Fields?

  Right.

• 33:49Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, yes. I was like, this would be a worthy story to tell. So I asked Ken and their board if I could help tell their story. And they said yes. And I was like, I'm all in. So I trained with them. It took a couple of months. I got their permission. And then I was like, I'm going to quit my job. I want to go all in with this. And I didn't have a real plan, like I didn't have an assignment. I'd been so long out of the journalism world. I think I, I was like, I don't even know editors anymore.

• 34:28Speaker 04

  So no one was checking for this work. I didn't have funding for it either. But I was like, this is, I have to do this. So I'm gonna do it no matter what.

• 34:40Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, it's like the thing you can't not do.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, I was like, some kind of way it will work itself out. I have a little bit of savings. So I'm gonna go all in. And they were doing missions all over the world. So they were doing missions in Mozambique and South Africa, Senegal, Costa Rica, St. Croix, all around the US. And I was like, I don't wanna do this like on the weekend where I'm like, oh, hi, where are you? Maybe I can come in for a day or two. I was like, I wanna go all in. And the only way to do that is to do this full time and to really travel with them. So this was all of 2017.

• 35:26Speaker 04

  And also for diving with a purpose, like you can't just show up. So you have to get your scuba certification. But then they also require you to get 30 ocean dives under your belt so that you can practice your skills and do the work that they do under the water. So I was like, okay, I gotta get my 30 ocean dives in. I was like, I'm just gonna focus on that. So I quit my job. And the friend who originally told me that I needed to work for his nonprofit got married in early 2018. So I'd been planning to go to his wedding. And he's from India and he was getting married in India.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  So I was like, I'm gonna go to his wedding and then I'm gonna stay in Southeast Asia and I'm gonna get my 30 ocean dives in and then I'm gonna figure out the rest. And so I did that. And while I was there, I came across a grant application for National Geographic. And I was like, oh, yeah, maybe Nat Geo would be interested in supporting this work, even though I, I didn't realize that they gave out grants.

• 36:40Jonathan Fields?

  And it's like, this is also, I mean, it's a confluence of so many things all at once. It's like, you've got these storytelling skills, then you've got nonprofit world skills in two different contexts now and relationships. And then you've got, you know, like the exposure to diving with a purpose and just this deep purpose and really uncovering these wrecked ships and telling the story of what really happened to people. And then it all comes together because you're like, all right, I'm committed to the cause right now. I'm all in on this. Like, I don't know how it's gonna work. And then, like, but for the fact that you had had nonprofit experience and you understood the world of grants and even knowing that there were things there to apply to, and then how to actually tell the story.

• 37:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:26Jonathan Fields?

  To a grant, you know, like, giving committee. It's like, everything you had done up till this point, all comes together.

• 37:33Speaker 04

  You know what, Jonathan? I actually had not made that connection. So, thank you for threading that needle for me. You're right. That probably was a huge help. And I also will say that I did read Nat Geo as a kid, and I loved the stories of those photographers and those writers. They were doing the sort of work that I dreamed of doing, but again, I never really saw myself in that magazine. And so, I didn't think that that would be a connection for me. But then it was. And you know what it was? This is also, this is, I don't think I've talked about this yet, because I just realized

• 38:13Speaker 04

  it, but in 2018, it was right when I was doing all of this, starting the training work, they put out an issue called The Race Issue, and it was Nat Geo's moment to reckon with its own past around race. So, a magazine that I hadn't really read since I was young, suddenly came in my view. And I thought that The Race Issue was actually beautiful, it was well done, and I was so impressed that Nat Geo had taken on, like, let's own.

• 38:50Speaker 04

  Our past and let's say that we're going to move forward in a new way. So that impressed me and that's what had me go search them out. I was like, well, what else are they doing? Let me check this out. And then I discover that they give out grants and they give out storytelling grants. And that particular year, they were really focused on the ocean and they were deeply interested in human history and culture. So I was like, oh my God, I think this might be a match. Let me put in an application.

• 39:20Jonathan Fields?

  When you send that in, do you have an expectation that you're going to get it? Or are you just sort of tossing it to the wind and you're like, kind of forget about it?

• 39:29Speaker 04

  I tossed it to the wind. Well, I put in two applications, like there were two opportunities with them. And I put in the first one and I didn't get it. The second one, I was like, well, I'd already started to think about, oh, do I do a GoFundMe? Oh, what can I sell? How much money do I need to be able to travel with these divers? And really like not have to come back, like to, to, to be there. And I, I'd sort of bankrupted myself with the nonprofit. And, and right before the nonprofit, I'd done my own magazine, which I bankrupted myself then. I put like all my savings into the magazine. And then I, I replenished my coffers, but then I did it again with the nonprofit.

• 40:11Speaker 04

  So it's not like I was also sitting on a lot of money, but I was like, there has to be a way. And even if I have to like shoot things myself, can't travel necessarily with a crew. Which I didn't really know how to travel with a crew anyway. That's not really how I tell stories. But I was like, I'm going to find a way to do this. It will work out somehow. If not National Geographic, it's something. I started looking at, I was like, well, could I, could I be a correspondent? In South Africa, like could I? And then I could travel back and forth from South Africa to Mozambique.

• 40:51Speaker 04

  And then maybe I could find a way to do something in Senegal. I was just trying to be creative and spitball. A way to make it happen. But then, um, so I applied in like March or February, somewhere around there. And I didn't hear back until September. So it was a little nail bity. But then September, I get the notification and it says,

• 41:15Speaker 04

  Congratulations. So that gave me a small grant. It wasn't a huge grant, but it was enough to be able to travel. And that's what started this whole journey. I never could have predicted that the journey would take me to where I am today. I just thought I would write. And actually, that was what my proposal was, was to write blog entries about my travels. So originally, I was just writing 200-word blog entries. And then I realized, after being on the road for, I don't know, like four months or so, I was like, I cannot tell this history in 200-word blog entries. This is, there's so much here.

• 42:00Speaker 04

  Like, this is a treasure trove of story. And it's not just the divers, which, and then there are a bunch of divers. I could tell individual stories about all the divers. It's not just the ships, even though I could tell individual stories about the ships. But it's also about the transatlantic slave trade. But it's not just about, like, the transatlantic slave trade, one big broad story. It's Mozambique's interaction with this ship and with this trade. It's South Africa, it's Senegal. It's, I also ended up going to Benin and Toca. Like, it's, all of these countries have a relationship to this history.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  And there are like a million stories inside of each one of those. So I was like, oh, my goodness, there's so much here to tell. So that sent me back to Nat Geo. I was like, okay, y'all, I think there's more stories here. And I started to hear the stories. I traveled with my recorder. I traveled with a camera and a video camera. And I tried to record it in as many mediums as possible. But I quickly realized, I'm not a filmmaker, and I'm okay with that. Hats off to all filmmakers. And like, it is not easy to tell a story on the road in that way, so. Got to worry about batteries and sunlight.

• 43:29Speaker 04

  It was too much for me. But my trusty audio recorder, which I was using to just record all the interviews so that I'd have references for the blogs. I was like, there was something magical about all of the accents that I was hearing and all of the people that were speaking about their perspectives in their own words and their own ways. I just started to hear the story and I thought it was a podcast. I was like, this should be a narrative podcast. So I went back to Nat Geo and they named me a storytelling fellow and gave me more funding so that I could produce this podcast called Into the Depths, which is only six

• 44:14Speaker 04

  episodes, but it tells a bigger story.

• 44:19Jonathan Fields?

  But it makes a big impact also. Like this lands and it gets a lot of attention because it's gorgeous storytelling and it's important storytelling and it's deep and it's thoughtful and soulful. So when that lands, I mean, it's interesting. So you like, you're going through this journey of saying, okay, first I have to do this thing. I don't even really know what it is or what my role is going to be. Just saying, all right, I'm going to go hang out at my friend's wedding in India. I'll get in my 30 dives, discovering this, you know, like small grand from Nat Geo and then realizing, okay, this is giving me enough money to go down and actually start to do the thing and to dive yourself also. And then realizing through conversations, oh, this is so much bigger than I thought it was.

• 45:02Jonathan Fields?

  Going back to them and saying, can we dance a little bit bigger? And then saying, yes, like, let's do this. And it leading to this beautiful like offer. I mean, I feel like that's serious. It's an offering.

• 45:15Speaker 04

  Wow, thanks for saying that.

• 45:17Jonathan Fields?

  You know, it's like an invitation. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall, that cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scars. But before the Halloween decorations are put away or Thanksgiving table has been set, there's already holly jolly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close. Time to kick end of year into high gear. When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts, and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases.

• 45:58Jonathan Fields?

  Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today and start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. Good Life Project is sponsored by TinCan. So if you grew up in the 70s or 80s, you probably still remember your best friend's phone number and stretching the kitchen phone cord around the corner for privacy. Our executive producer, Lindsay, wanted that same freedom for her kids, eight and 10. So in January, she got them a TinCan. Now, friends call the house to chat, make plans, and check in without borrowing her phone. They even keep a handwritten phone book next to it. I kind of love that.

• 46:42Jonathan Fields?

  TinCan is the new school way for kids to talk with their friends. It's a secure landline that lets them call all their favorite people, but with parental controls to keep them protected. No screens, no algorithms, no texting, just a phone being a phone. Kids can only call or be called by people on your approved list. Calls to other TinCans and 911 are always free. And there's even an answering machine for messages that are, I'm told, gloriously ridiculous. Go to tincan.com/goodlife to get $10 off your first order, exclusive for our listeners. That's tincan.com/goodlife for $10 off. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show. Tincan.com/goodlife.

• 47:27Speaker 05

  This is Nick and Jack from the best one yet, and we are excited to tell you about Walmart Business.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Staying ahead of business trends means moving fast and adapting quickly. Walmart Business helps you simplify operations so you can focus on building the next big thing.

• 47:40Speaker 05

  Find exactly what your organization needs with their ever-expanding business assortment and everyday low prices. Keep your momentum going fast with reliable shipping and fulfillment.

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Eligible organizations can take advantage of tax-free shopping, both in-store and online, saving you more while getting you everything you need.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  It's Walmart built for your business. Sign up for a free Walmart Business account today at business.walmart.com.

• 48:06Jonathan Fields?

  What's going through your heart and mind as you're like moving through like these different, you're diving, you're actually in the water, you're seeing the history with your own eyes, and then you're, you're talking to people, hearing the stories in their own voices and their lived history, and then seeing and being able to touch this buried history. As you're moving through all this and saying, okay, now, part of my work here is I need to actually be the storyteller and share this with the world, but how is this affecting you just on a personal level?

• 48:36Speaker 04

  When I started this work, which is maybe dumb, like, you'll be like, duh, hello, black girl, slave shipwrecks, the history. Of course, this is personal for you, but I wasn't thinking about this as a personal story. I was thinking that in the world, it needs to be our collective history. We need to remember it and to know it. When I was thinking about the impact that it might have on young people, the impact it might have on different groups, I was not thinking about this as a personal story. And that is what unfolds over time.

• 49:18Speaker 04

  And I realized, while I have been afraid of this history...

• 49:25Speaker 04

  Much of the way that history that centers African Americans in particular tends to center inside of our pain and our trauma and our tragedy. And it actually had started to become traumatizing for me to revisit those stories. Not that those stories weren't important, but there was a way that they they stay in the trauma. And it's just, it was too much. I was like, I can't do it. Even though I've now volunteered and I'm like, I'm telling stories about the transatlantic slave trade.

• 50:04Speaker 04

  So I'm leaning in, but I also felt like there's a way to tell these stories that doesn't have to center inside of the trauma. That there's a way that we can focus on the healing, which was much more interesting to me. And we can focus on the honoring too, which I think is a piece that is missing. That was more of my approach. And then I had this encounter with my mother's pastor. So it was just me and my mom growing up and we're pretty close. And even though when I started this work, like we've talked about this, I was mid-career.

• 50:44Speaker 04

  So I'm very much a grown person doing this work who's traveled a lot in the world. But my mother was just like, oh, Lord, my baby is just traveling all over the world. Like, we, oh, I need to make sure you are protected. And so she asked her pastor to bless me. And I happened to be at her house during Easter weekend when this happened. He was visiting that week and he's this incredible human being named Bishop Jack Bomar of Hillside International Chapel of True Center in Atlanta, Georgia. And Bishop Jack, because you don't say no to my mother, period.

• 51:26Speaker 04

  Like, nobody says no to my mother. You're like, okay, Ms. Roberts, we will bless your child. So he offers me a blessing. And that blessing also shifted the way that I thought about this work, the way that I thought about the stakes around this work. What he said to me, he said, Tara, while you do this important work around the world, you need to ask permission of the ancestors to do this work. You need to ask them to guide you, to make your way smooth and harmonious. You need to speak their names.

• 52:09Speaker 04

  And then he kept saying that, he was like, speak their names, speak their names, speak their names. And I have to be honest that when I was thinking about this work, again, thinking in broad strokes, I wasn't thinking about the Africans as individuals in those cargo holds. I thought about them more as statistics, as victims, but not as people. And Bishop Jack gave me a way to see them newly. He made me realize, and like, here's a stat that also hit home and that helped me ground what he was saying. Because I didn't know this until I started this work,

• 52:55Speaker 04

  but there were approximately 1.8 million Africans who died just in the crossing from Africa to the Americas. We're not talking about the number of people who died once they arrived and were enslaved, just in the ocean. And I remember hearing that number, which was a number I didn't know. I had no idea that it was that many people who died.

• 53:22Speaker 04

  And I was like, who's grieving those people? Who's even acknowledging that enormous loss of life? Who's honoring them? And what Bishop Jack helped me see was not only I was not doing that either, but that those people, those 1.8 million people were people. They were mothers and fathers and daughters and sons and farmers, mathematicians, poets, writers. Like, they were all the things. And they deserved to be acknowledged as so. So that deepened the work and it made me think that this is not just healing of the

• 54:06Speaker 04

  present, but there's an opportunity to heal the past. I don't know, maybe time is not linear. I don't know, that's a whole other conversation. But putting some of those souls to rest, this is another thing that Bishop Jack said. He was like, you know, there's a myth or belief that, well, this is true, that the Atlantic Ocean is one of the most turbulent oceans on the planet. And some say that's because of all of those lost souls who haven't been put to rest. So there's an opportunity for us to honor the ancestors and to put them to rest. And I was like, I had never, ever thought about that.

• 54:50Speaker 04

  So that was a shift. And then, now that I'm starting to see these ancestors as people, I'm starting to think about my own ancestors, which I had not thought about at all. I was one of those persons who didn't want to know the stories of my ancestors because I thought that it was just too painful to know. My mother is sort of the keeper of some of our family's lore. And so I've always known who my great, great grandfather is. That's the last person that we can trace back. And he was born in 1837 in North Carolina, in Edenton, North Carolina.

• 55:32Speaker 04

  And so we've always had a picture of him on the wall, but I wasn't curious about him at all. I never asked stories, didn't want to know because he was born enslaved. And I was like, oh, it's too much. I can't, can't even embrace that.

• 55:49Speaker 04

  But being a part of this work, meeting some of the descendants of people who came over on the ships, particularly the Clotilda, which is a ship that was found in Mobile, Alabama, it's the most recent ship that was found, meeting those people who know the stories of their ancestors and who are so proud of their ancestors, it gave me a little courage. And so I ended up hiring a genealogist to see if I could trace back to a slave ship. I couldn't. But I learned some stuff about Jack, that Jack is my ancestor. And I was

• 56:29Speaker 04

  like, oh, my God, I was so afraid to know this man's story. But his story is incredible. He was born enslaved, but he bought like over 175 acres of land. What? I didn't know that. I also found out that he fought in the Civil War. He was a part of the United States colored troops. What? Like, my family, we didn't know this information. Here's this guy who's contributing, who's, you know, like, his life was more than the sum of his enslavement. And I think that that is one of the lessons that I've learned throughout this work. It's when we talk about Black history, like, it does tend to center inside

• 57:11Speaker 04

  of the trauma of it. But the history, the stories are so much bigger than that. It's stories of resilience, it's stories of resistance, it's stories of creativity, it's stories of survival, it's all of these stories. And these are stories, they deserve to be remembered. And told.

• 57:31Jonathan Fields?

  And you put yourself in the center of not only saying, okay, I'm going to recognize these as individuals, not statistics. I'm going to look at the broader, you know, like, experience of what happened. But now also, let me actually reexamine my own history. And within that, you know, you discover all of this beauty, really, and power.

• 57:52Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 57:53Jonathan Fields?

  You know?

• 57:54Speaker 04

  I feel so connected to Jack now. I'm like, I feel like we're there, you know, like we got some similarities. And maybe I took them from him. But if not for this work, I wouldn't have explored that. I wouldn't know that. I would be missing this connection that roots me in a way that I never even knew I needed. So it's quite powerful.

• 58:21Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, through all of this, you bring so many of these stories back. It becomes this deep, rich, personal experience of awakening and transformation and reconnection, like homecoming in a lot of different ways. It's almost like that sense of belonging that you were searching for a couple of years earlier. And that sense of purpose, you're like, oh, right. Actually, you know, I can look outside, but also I'm looking within and within my own history as well, my own ancestry. You end up, you know, as you're an explorer for Nat Geo now, right? And you end up on the cover of Nat Geo. So like that little girl who's looking at Nat Geo and like saying, this is so cool. So many adventures, but never seeing a representation of you in the magazine.

• 59:06Jonathan Fields?

  And then you like fast forward, you become that representation. What's that like?

• 59:12Speaker 04

  Mind boggling. That's what it is. I couldn't have imagined that that little girl who loved fantasy books, who wanted to be a part of an adventure, would really become an explorer with National Geographic and end up on the, I just, I couldn't have imagined that. And then that same year that I was on the cover, they named me the explorer of the year. Do you know how many incredible explorers there are who are doing fantastic work in the world? So for them to acknowledge that, like, oh, my goodness. It's, I think about what that picture did for me in the museum.

• 59:56Speaker 04

  And I imagine that maybe this moment might be that for some other little girl who's like, If she can do it, I can do it too. And of course she can, you know? So that feels, it feels incredible. What is also amazing is, I mean, National Geographic is an iconic, huge brand. And they leaned into this storytelling. And they leaned in partly because people from all over the world were curious and interested. So sometimes it feels like this history in particular is siloed, that it is a history that people are not interested in.

• 1:00:41Speaker 04

  But what I'm hearing, what I'm seeing, what I'm experiencing is such a widespread interest and astonishment and excitement to learn more. And it feels like mission accomplished. That's really what we set out to do, was to just bring this history back into memory. Because it deserves to be there. Here's one other stat that I'd love to throw out there. Because I think this also contextualizes it. I learned that there were 12,000 ships that brought Africans to the Americas. 12,000 ships that brought 12.5 million Africans to the Americas. What I realized when I was growing up,

• 1:01:26Speaker 04

  I couldn't tell you the name of a single one of those ships. But I could tell you the name of the Mayflower. I could tell you all about the Titanic. Like, I could tell you about all these other ships in history. But I couldn't tell you the name of a single one of those. So again, it just feels like there's this chapter. It's not even just one chapter. It's chapters of history that are just missing. And this work, it's not just black history. It's not just even American history. This is global history. The transatlantic slave trade was one of the most monumental events in human history. Like, it shaped the world that we have today.

• 1:02:10Speaker 04

  But it is one of the least studied, the least understood. Moments in our history. So this opportunity for us to look at it newly, to expand the historical record, just feels so important. And this is the other thing that I've learned about this work. Or this is the perspective that I've decided I want to bring to this work. The trade was also the thing, like more than anything else in history. And that's because it lasted for 400 years. But it is the thing that connects the world of the Atlantic in a way that cannot be undone.

• 1:02:53Speaker 04

  Like Africa, Europe, North America, South America, the Caribbean. We are a part of each other. If you think about the transfer of cultures, of religions, of philosophies, of ideas, of goods, of people, of finances, like we are so deeply interwoven with each other. It's like if we lean into that idea of that connection, could that potentially change how we think we're responsible for each other? And then what changes? So this, to me, it just feels like it is such important, profound memory work,

• 1:03:36Speaker 04

  and it's profound healing work, and it's profound connecting work. I just feel like I can't believe that scuba diving, like entered my life and changed it in this way and got this sci fi fantasy girl to be all in the past and enjoying being in the past. So it feels incredible.

• 1:04:00Jonathan Fields?

  Folks have heard me talk about this before. You know, I'm always fascinated with the notion of sliding doors, you know, like the butterfly effect. And had you decided to skip that second floor like so many others had, you know, those years back and not seen that one photo or just kind of blew past it and not really had it catch your eye? Like, I'm always amazed at how these random, seemingly random moments, I'm going to use the word seemingly there because who knows?

• 1:04:28Jonathan Fields?

  Happened to so many of us at moments where we really, really need it.

• 1:04:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Jonathan Fields?

  And we're attuned to it. I think sometimes because we're suffering and that suffering leads to an openness. And there's something that happens. There's a momentary conversation or witnessing or experience or whatever it may be. And you're open to it and it just, you allow it to move you in a way where you don't just blow it off. You're like, there's something here, but like that catalyst.

• 1:04:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:00Jonathan Fields?

  Have you ever wondered what would have happened had you not gotten that ticket on that day or seen that photo?

• 1:05:06Speaker 04

  I wouldn't be here talking to you, probably. Yeah. I mean, it could have been a divergent path that would have taken me somewhere else. I feel thankful and grateful for the feelings of discomfort that I had. Like, thank goodness I felt uncomfortable and so uncomfortable that I knew something had to change. And I wouldn't say that anywhere around along the path that I could have imagined the next steps or the next steps. All I could do was take the step towards this feeling of lightness and this feeling of joy. And it feels like that is our task.

• 1:05:48Speaker 04

  Well, maybe that's a little too much to make it a task for us. But if there are folks who are listening and who are like, who are suffering. And we're in a moment where there's a lot of change happening. It's a lot of difference and a lot of people are being impacted in many, many ways. And some folks are like, what is next? And how do I move myself along? And I think I've just begun to believe that your body talks to you. I think the universe talks to you. It's all of these little, but it's, it's small things that it tells you.

• 1:06:27Speaker 04

  And if you follow that feeling of lightness, like that's the guide. When I think about those divers, those black women.

• 1:06:39Speaker 04

  I felt such joy and such happiness. I wanted to chase that feeling of joy and happiness. And when I wasn't chasing them, I felt heavy and tired. It's a tiny thing. It's just like, oh, what makes me feel better? What else makes me feel better? What makes me feel better? And let me keep listening to that. And I know it can be really scary. Like, you know, people have mortgages and we have egos and we've got titles that we're chasing. But sometimes you gotta like, trust and just follow.

• 1:07:15Jonathan Fields?

  You gotta follow the quickening.

• 1:07:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:18Jonathan Fields?

  This feels like a great place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer up the phrase "to live a good life," what comes up?

• 1:07:27Speaker 04

  Sometimes I say this during my book signings. I say, "Never be afraid to follow your curiosity." So maybe that's what it means to live a good life, is just to follow your curiosity, just to trust that, follow it. There's a way your soul is speaking to you by sparking your curiosity.

• 1:07:52Jonathan Fields?

  Thank you.

• 1:07:53Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:54Jonathan Fields?

  Hey, before you leave, if you loved this episode, safe bet you'll also love the conversation we had with Natalie Baszile about the rich history of Black people and land and community and resilience and farming, especially in the United States. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you

• 1:08:38Jonathan Fields?

  did, because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a seven second favor, share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share it with more, that's awesome too, but just one person even, then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter, because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

• 1:09:08Speaker 01

  This is a paid partnership with Apple Card. The coolest flex at brunch these days is not the Bloody Mary with the bottomless Gold Flake caviar topping. It's not whipping out your wallet to pay. It's not having a wallet at all. Jack's been an Apple Card user since 2019. That's the same year he tossed his wallet in the trash. Because Apple Card holders earn 2% daily cash back on purchases made using Apple Pay. It's the only credit card designed for the iPhone. I tap to pay with Apple Card at the grocery store, at the gas station, at restaurants. And yes, I use it at my second home, the farmer's market. Jack tapping to pay with his Apple Card with Apple Pay is his favorite thing to do. And the pleasant vibration and chime sound? Means I just got 2% daily cash back on my latest purchase. Apply in the Wallet app on your iPhone today. Subject to credit approval.

• 1:09:51Speaker 01

  Apple Card, issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA, Salt Lake City branch. Terms and more at applecard.com.

• 1:09:57Speaker 03

  This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies, to PPE, to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 1:10:27Speaker 06

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 1:10:57Speaker 07

  Hi, this is Paige from Giggly Squad, and this episode is brought to you by Mattress Firm. You guys know I'm obsessed with my mattress and my adjustable base. My bed is my office, my movie theater, my everything. And if you're waking up sore, aches, and pains, can make sleeping tough, Mattress Firm's sleep experts can find you the right mattress for improved support. Plus, Mattress Firm carries a curated premium selection of mattresses so you can get the upgrade you want. For the great sleep you deserve, visit Mattress Firm during the Black Friday sale. They make sleep easy.