Relationship Agreements: A Powerful Way to Deepen Love & Lessen Conflict | Krista & Will Van Derveer

Want a deeper, more secure, fiercely connected relationship? Then, you’ll want to check out the power of relationship agreements. In this episode, we sit down with Krista and Dr. Will Van Derveer. Will is a psychiatrist and author of the book Psychedelic Therapy https://amzn.to/4lrWBYY, and Krista is a Relational Leadership Educator who helps partnerships move from the "I Operating System" to a "We Operating System." We explore: How to craft your own sacred relationship agreements that keep bringing you back to love, no matter how much friction your find yourself in. The wildly surprising "Couch Time" technique that uses mammal-to-mammal co-regulation to stop a heated argument in 60 seconds. A simple shift in perspective that allows you to stop seeing your partner as a "fixed object" and start seeing them with fresh eyes. The "Abundant Repair" protocol for ensuring you never go to bed with tension still lingering in your body. Why most "implicit" agreements fail and how to write down the 24 sacred guardrails that protect your connection. If you are tired of the same old arguments and want a relationship that actually empowers your individual potential, this conversation is for you. Click play to learn how to transform your partnership into a powerhouse of growth. You can find Krista & Will at: The Art of We https://www.kristavanderveer.com/ | Get the Top 10 Relationship Agreements https://www.kristavanderveer.com/couples/ | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/krista-will-van-derveer-relationship-agreements-relational-somatics-abundant-repair Next week, we're sharing a really meaningful conversation with Dr. Deepika Chopra about toxic positivity and how to be optimistic without tipping into delusion, distraction, or even harm. Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the Wheel https://jonathanfields.substack.com/aboutVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So we all want that sense of easy, stable love, but so often we find ourselves just kind of falling into the same old ruts. We assume we know what our partner's thinking. We let small tensions simmer, and eventually the magic just starts to feel a bit like a chore. My guests today say it doesn't have to be that way if you're willing to move from what they call an I operating system to a we operating system. Krista and Will van der Veer join me to talk about the sacred guardrails or agreements that they use to keep their relationship thriving. Will is a psychiatrist and author of the new book, Psychotic Therapy, and Krista is a leadership educator who specializes in how we relate to one another. Together, they host the Art of We podcast. In this conversation, we're

• 0:45Jonathan Fields?

  exploring how to craft your own sacred relationship agreements that keep bringing you back to love, how to gamble everything for love by servicing the things you're usually too afraid to say. We talk about a somatic couch tool for cooling down high conflict moments using simple biology, and why abundant repair is one of the secrets to feeling closer after a fight than you did before it even started. It's a bit of a masterclass in how to build a partnership that isn't just a private love oasis, but an engine for your greatest work in the world. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan

• 1:27Jonathan Fields?

  Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 2:06Speaker 02

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  Cheers to fall savings at Whole Foods Market, home of higher ingredient standards. This Halloween, share chocolates and candies made without that spooky high fructose corn syrup. Throwing a party? Make it easy with a Berry Chantilly cake. Ready to cook pizza? No antibiotics ever chicken wings. And sushi made fresh daily. Fall gatherings never tasted better. Save through November 3rd at Whole Foods Market.

• 3:10Jonathan Fields?

  So my opening curiosity here is, where did this idea of agreements and sort of like relationship-driven agreements, especially in the context of personal relationships? What's the origin story for this?

• 3:24Speaker 04

  When I met Will, I was working for a consulting company, and we were actually going into organizations. So it's interesting that you bring this up this way because we were bringing these practices about how to relate together in order to really move forward the mission and to succeed interpersonally and also in what we're up to together. And before I met Will, I was like, wow, like, I really want to take this into my next partnership because this is incredibly supportive for the success of us individually and also as a company at that point. And so when I met Will and we decided what kind of partnership we wanted, we decided to create agreements based upon...

• 4:10Speaker 04

  Both of our backgrounds, what really worked and what really didn't work, and also from some of our mentors that we've learned from and create these specific relationship agreements to help us accomplish what we wanted to accomplish in our partnership at the time. And we did meet, you know, when I was mid 40s and Will was late 40s. So it was like a second half of our lives partnership where we had already learned a lot about partnerships and what worked and what didn't work.

• 4:32Jonathan Fields?

  And just for clarity, we're talking about personal partnership. We're not talking about business partnership here, although it's eventually evolved into that. But this is you two meet, you're later in life, you've had other relationships. There've been things that have gone well and things that haven't gone well, just like everybody out there. And you come together and you're kind of like, all right, how do we gather up what we've learned and set ourselves up optimally so like that this thing can really work as good as it can work? Is that kind of like land right?

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. And we'll even go to our first, the first conversation we had in our first date. It was very personal to us, our personal relationship we wanted, but we both came to the same table, the same table with the same conversation of we really wanted our next partnership to be of service to the world, not just for our own little private love oasis. And we knew that if we wanted to have that kind of partnership, that we would have to really create these agreements, these sacred guardrails of how we would accomplish that together, rather than just, you know, go day by day and hope that it happens. And we had both come from relationships that, you know, were challenging. So we wanted something different.

• 5:44Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. All right. Will, it's your first date. You sit down with Krista. How does the idea like of actually something like this come up on the first date? I mean, most first dates is like, you're dancing around, you're talking about superficial stuff, you're probably having a drink or two just to loosen up and let go of the nerves and the anxiety. This is a big, deep topic. It just gets surfaced like right out of the gate.

• 6:10Speaker 05

  Well, I think it says a lot about who Krista is as a human, that we didn't spend a lot of time on surfacey topics. We dove right in.

• 6:20Speaker 05

  And we shut down the restaurant. It was a three and a half or four hour conversation. And it was just incredibly exciting to meet another person who had a very similar vision for what relationships could do. And, you know, as Krista mentioned, you know, we both came from different kinds of experiences in the past. I'd been in a 20 year marriage where the agreements that we had were loosely based on our Buddhist practice, which had advantages and it had limitations to it. I could talk about those maybe in more depth if we get to that. But essentially, the desire that I had of having a bigger expression

• 7:05Speaker 05

  or a bigger impact on the world, I was not able to realize that in the previous relationship I was in. And I knew that I needed a different set of agreements to be able to accomplish that. So we've, we've really practiced these agreements now for, how many years now, Krista?

• 7:27Speaker 04

  We'll be married seven years this year and together nine years. But I don't think you actually had relationship agreements in your last relationship. Is that, are you?

• 7:38Speaker 05

  I would say, we had guidelines based on our Buddhist teacher, which are that, you know, if you're having emotional distress, it's your problem personally. And it's not a great idea. It's definitely frowned upon in Buddhism to bring disturbances to your partner. You go back to the cushion. I don't know if that's true, Jonathan, in the yogic traditions, but the concept sort of is that, at least what I was taught in our Buddhist tradition was, you need to have your own back. You need to take that to the cushion, go meditate more.

• 8:15Speaker 05

  Your disturbance is not your partner's problem. And there's significant limitations in that perspective.

• 8:21Jonathan Fields?

  It's really interesting, right? Because you have a lot of times when when stuff goes sideways in a relationship, you know, we go to like, what are the teachings that have been handed to us that feel like, you know, what are the guidelines that have come before us that have already established? And we'll just lock on to whatever it is that, you know, that are the ones that we know and we're riding along with it. Oftentimes it's faith based, it's spiritual based. Sometimes it's just the family culture that has handed down these traditions. And without fail, there's, there's always some stuff which is like, wow, that is really powerful. It makes so much sense. It lands really well. And there's that stuff that raises your eyebrow a little bit and you're kind of like, I'm not so sure about that. And then there's the other bucket, which is like, are you kidding me?

• 9:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 05

  Right.

• 9:05Jonathan Fields?

  You know, and I think we've, we all kind of go there, but oftentimes we don't. The, the question is being raised in our minds, but we don't actually, we don't act on the question. We just act on the roadside of it because we're like, well, this is, this is what's been, you know, handed to me. It must work. So let me just follow those rules. Did you have a similar sort of like set of imprints coming into this, Krista?

• 9:28Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, for me, it was like, I learned like you're saying from my family about how to do relationship, from our culture, about how to do relationship from the people around me. But, but after I had lost a partner to a sudden death before I met Will. And, and we had a beautiful and also challenging relationship. But after he died, I was, you know, after a year and a half of grieving, I was like, do I even really want a partnership again? And I remember the moment exactly where I was, one of those moments where you can't forget it. And I just stopped and I was like, oh, I want that more than anything, but only if it's going to be extraordinary. And I don't even know what that looks like. I don't know how to get it. I've never seen it, but that's what I'm standing for.

• 10:12Speaker 04

  And then I proceeded to go through some dating processes with my own self agreements about how I would show for the dating in order to see if, if, if they would, if they and I would meet, you know, what I'm, this kind of partnership that I was calling in. So I was definitely. Coming from creating a different thing that I hadn't seen before.

• 10:32Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. Do you remember that moment where sort of like the switch was flipped? Did something happen or was it just you're walking along and you're like, oh no, I'm just, I just know.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. I was walking my parents' dog. I was house-sitting for them and I was on the sidewalk and I remember exactly, I was looking at this park. And it was just like one of those lightning bolts. Nothing happened other than me asking the question of like, do I actually even want this? Do I want partnership? It was so heartbreaking what I went through with his death. And it was also such a challenge in the very end of his life and also so beautiful. But I was like, wow, this is a lot of work. And I realized that it had to be extraordinary again to, for me to say yes to this.

• 11:16Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. I mean, I would imagine also, and tell me if this is right, that when you lose somebody in that way, the pain is so deep and so enduring that for you to say yes to the possibility of that happening again, like the stars have to align on a completely different level. Does that land?

• 11:33Speaker 04

  That totally lands because I knew that if I was going to be in partnership again, it would be risky. I would lose a lot. I would have to love again. I might get heartbroken again, but that was totally worth it. But it was also easier to be in that conviction because if I didn't get too extraordinary, then I was like, ah, I can live without it. No big deal. I can do this myself, if that makes sense.

• 11:57Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. So the standard for you is just stunningly high. It's like, I want this to happen. Like I want this to be a yes, but for it to be a yes, some incredible things need to be in place.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 12:10Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. Were you coming from a similar place, Will?

• 12:13Speaker 05

  Well, I had been dreaming and journaling and very carefully detailing the qualities of the partner that I was calling in.

• 12:26Speaker 05

  And it was interesting because that piece of paper that where I worked that and, you know, crossed it out and erased it and rewrote it and designed it was in a workbook that someone had recommended to me that was on my bookshelf. And after Krista and I'd been together for a few years, I found that workbook and I opened up to that page and saw that document in there. And it was kind of spooky how clearly she met the description that I was writing for a couple of years before I met Krista. So it sounds a little hokey, but I I've come to believe that that energetic calling in is real and that that is something

• 13:08Speaker 05

  that really matters. And when we set really clear intentions, we're sending out a message that that matters.

• 13:16Jonathan Fields?

  You both come together. You both used a phrase that I think is really interesting and really unusual in what you wanted when you sat down for that first conversation, which is you weren't just looking for something that was going to satisfy you on a personal, individual level. You were looking to create a relationship that had a bigger impact that somehow affected people beyond the two of you. That is stunningly unusual. Do you do you acknowledge that?

• 13:47Speaker 04

  I think we were both a little bit in shock on our first date to be coming with that same conversation. It wasn't like one of us influenced the other into that. We both literally came with that conversation. And Will, do you want to share where you, you know, where you got that inspiration from?

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Well, another close friend of ours in Boulder, Jason Gaddis, on his podcast had the wonderful Remy translator, Andrew Harvey, as a guest a few years ago. And Andrew was talking about how deeply the world needs couples who are committed to change, changing the world. And in his view, at least as expressed on that episode was like, this is what the world needs now is people who are committed to this and have each other's backs and who are willing to to grow and fall down and and race ahead and, you know, pick themselves up and pick each other up. And so I was on fire with that notion for a few weeks before

• 14:45Speaker 05

  our date started. And so that was where I got fired up about it.

• 14:50Jonathan Fields?

  So it's like you both bring this thing to it because most people start a relationship. They're like, okay, so maybe they make the list that you described. Well, I know somebody literally had like had made a list with over 100, 100 things that had to be on the list if the part of that they were looking for. And okay, so maybe that's overkill. But a lot of people do sit down and say like, I need this, I need that, I need this, right? But generally, those lists, they're about like what I want for my life about how I want to feel in my relationship, in my world, like it's it's me, me, me, me, me. And look, there's nothing wrong with that. We like we all, we have needs and we have desires and we want to get them met, right? On a very personal level. And to go beyond that

• 15:31Jonathan Fields?

  and say, and like, not but, but and I also want this union to be a an engine for something bigger. It's just so highly unusual. Krista, like on your side, like, where did that come from?

• 15:47Speaker 04

  Well, I can say that we talk about it now. I can say where it came from. But now we talk about it as moving from the I, I operating system to the we OS, the we operating system. And it's actually really informed our partnership and how we make decisions and a lot of our agreements. But I think that for me, I'm kind of tired. And before I met Will, was tired of of the knowing that there's only a certain amount of impact that I personally, as one human being, can have in the world. And I I've always tended to be very relationally oriented. Really caring for the we of us and you know, potentially it comes from maybe something

• 16:30Speaker 04

  that I was wanting more in my life earlier on is to really be attuned to and tracked. And I wanted to attune to others and track others. And but there's always just kind of a knowing that we can do more than I can, which is our, one of our mottos that we have in our relationship. And, and it came very clear. It kind of came to a head that first date because I hadn't met another human being, kind of like what you're saying, Jonathan, who was coming with the same conversation and was a potential partner for me and we're closing the restaurant down. So I think it really even stuck even more in that moment of, of we can do more than I can.

• 17:08Jonathan Fields?

  So then my curiosity is how do you move from there to, okay, so we're getting serious with each other, you know, like we're, we're forming this partnership. We need a set of agreements to guide it. Because again, this is a big wild leap that nobody else takes. There may be implicit agreements, right? Like the things that are kind of like, yes, we kind of like agree on this saying yes, you know, like we agree, we've kind of shared this type of value, right? But it's, it's so unusual for somebody to sit down and say, okay, so here's the deal. We need to literally set up like written, clearly worded bylaws

• 17:47Jonathan Fields?

  for this relationship. Were you both equally excited about this? Was, was one person like hesitant? Like, I think here's a deeper question I'm asking. Especially in the early days of relationship, there's a magic to it, right? There's like this tingling part of the relationship. There's like, ooh, this is juicy. This is fun. I don't want to lose this. And, and I would imagine that there, we've got a lot of people joining us who they're like, if you tell them, okay, so the next step here is to sit down and negotiate these like tightly worded agreements to like, ooh, but doesn't that like kill the magic and everything?

• 18:28Speaker 05

  It might be counterintuitive to the listener, but it actually has the opposite effect of keeping us very much alive and on our toes with each other. One example is we vow to always see each other with fresh eyes every day. And if you

• 18:47Speaker 05

  Take that at a face value, maybe the first impression might be like, oh, that's, that's beautiful and that's sweet. But when you start looking at it day after day over years, how easy it is to slip into automating your partner. Just like you automate the room that you walk into. When you come home, you kind of know where the couch is. You know where the chair is. You know where you where you throw your keys every day when you come in. So it, if anything, I feel like it keeps the, the juices really fresh and keeps the passion lit at a high level because there's so much presence that's required

• 19:29Speaker 05

  to pull it off, to live by these agreements every day. So that's, that's my thought on it. Krista, where do you land?

• 19:37Speaker 04

  Yes, I love your question because some people are like agreements. That just sounds like horrible, like we'll get stuck in some sort of thing that we don't want to be in. And yeah, I agree with Will where it's like for me, it, the agreements require me to grow personally. And I'm, both of us, fortunately, which I think makes this work is that we're high value, we put a high value on growth. And so like another example is to assume positive intent. Now, this is becoming more popular out in the world that we assume positive intent. But when we're in a rupture, our conflict, that's where the real growth becomes, comes available is like, oh,

• 20:21Speaker 04

  I'm not actually assuming positive intent right now. And we can remind you, we gently remind each other because we already agreed upon it. And the problem with implicit agreements, because you brought that up, Jonathan, is that when things get hard and we didn't actually explicitly agree to it, then those things go out the window. You know, when, when we're in high conflict, high challenge, like I never agreed to that. Or we can go there. And for me, these keep me growing because I know that they serve me, they serve Will, and they serve the we of us, the, you know, the bigger entity that, that includes us, but also transcends us. And so for, for me, it becomes a really fun experience. And it's also not about beating each other up with, with the agreements when we fall down.

• 21:04Speaker 04

  It's about calling each other in and supporting each other. And they're living agreements too. So we can change them whenever they're not actually correct or we have actually a misunderstanding about them. Or they're ready to be evolved into something else.

• 21:18Jonathan Fields?

  So that makes sense to me. What if somebody's listening to this or watching and they're thinking to themselves, okay, cool, cool, cool. Like you two are really into growth. Good for you. You go grow. You do the personal development thing. You invest in all this stuff. You do the coaching and the therapy and that's, by the way, like, you know, this has been both of your worlds. Krista, you've been a coach at the highest level for years and an executive. And Will, you've been a psychiatrist. And like, so like you're both just fiercely growth oriented. But somebody's joining us and they're like, look, what I want from my relationship, I just want it to be easy. I want it to be stable. I don't need to be constantly evolving and growing and changing. I just want a partner and a relationship that just feels good and peaceful for as,

• 22:03Jonathan Fields?

  you know, as, as much as it can, as often as it can, and as long as it can. What, what do you say to that person in the context of inviting them to still consider getting really detailed about relationship agreements?

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Well, I think that there are differences in individuals about how, how much they want to grow or how hard they want to work on themselves in, in one lifetime. And I'm completely okay with that. I don't, I don't have judgment about that. I mean, this goes to kind of the beginning of the journey for me and Krista. And when we work with couples is asking the question, what's the couple up to? Like, what are they here together in this relationship to do together? Maybe it's being comfortable. Maybe it's raising kids. Maybe it's starting a business together. It could be anything.

• 22:55Speaker 05

  And then the agreements for that particular couple need to support what they're up to together. So it's really about matching up agreements that support the fulfillment that that couple wants to have as opposed to, hey, everybody should be on like the fastest rocket ship of growth there is.

• 23:15Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

• 23:20Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by Sequencing. So in midlife, we start noticing some of the things our parents carried and how they're showing up in their health and their lives and wondering what we're carrying too. Sequencing.com can help. According to Sequencing, most popular DNA tests read about a tenth of 1% of your DNA. Sequencing.com reads all 3.2 billion positions and screens for genetic variants linked to over 15,000 diseases, conditions, and traits. That can mean catching inherited risks early and understanding how certain medications may affect you so you can talk it through with your doctor. Just swab your cheek, mail it back, and their CLIA-certified, CAP-accredited US lab handles the rest.

• 24:02Jonathan Fields?

  Clinical-grade, not novelty-grade, your DNA doesn't change, but what we know about it does, so they keep reanalyzing your genome against new research for as long as you're a member. And they never sell or share your data, ever. Right now, sequencing.com is offering our listeners up to 10% off your full genome test plus free shipping. Go to sequencing.com and use the promo code GOODLIFE for 10% off. That's sequencing.com promo code GOODLIFE. That's S-E-Q-U-E-N-C-I-N-G.com promo code GOODLIFE. Good Life Project is sponsored by Bombas. So there's this moment every fall here in Boulder. The morning air is crisp, the light goes golden against the mountains, and something

• 24:43Jonathan Fields?

  in you just wants to slow down, like soft layers and long walks and a warm mug and a good book. You know, the cozy feeling has just arrived. And cozy really does start at your feet. Bombas just launched new suede moccasins, cushy soles, a shearling lining, and water-resistant suede, so a little frost on the grass isn't a problem. Our whole family's sock drawers are basically shrines to Bombas, have been for years. Marina wool for chilly mornings, sports socks for when we get out and move, and compression socks for long travel days, which I'm actually about to have. Opening that drawer, they're just a ripe pair for whatever the day holds. But the other thing that has kept me a Bombas fan for all of these years, for every item you buy, Bombas donates an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity.

• 25:28Jonathan Fields?

  One purchased, one donated. Over 200 million donations and counting. So head over to Bombas.com/GoodLife and use the code GOODLIFE for 20% off your first purchase. That's B-O-M-B-A-S.com/GoodLife, code GOODLIFE at checkout.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 26:21Jonathan Fields?

  It sounds like it's kind of like what comes first then is a conversation that says something like, what is the shared vision for our relationship? Like, what actually, what matters to both of us about what we exalt and where we're going? Does that make sense, Krista?

• 26:37Speaker 04

  Totally. That's actually, we talk about that a lot, is that that is the first conversation. And then I think the next, or maybe sub-question to that is, who do we need to be or become in order to fulfill that? And then that's how we start to decide what are the relationship agreements. And, you know, also, like, in the question of the purpose of the partnership, it's like, why specifically you and me, not just partnership in general? Like, why am I interested in being with you here? And so it really helps us orient towards what agreements would be supportive.

• 27:12Jonathan Fields?

  Krista, you said something I want to reflect on also, which is this notion of agreements, when everything's going fine, you're like, you're just kind of in cruise control with your partner. You know, maybe the agreements aren't like, super, they don't come in on a really regular basis. But it sounds like where these become really important is where there's conflict, where there's challenge, where there's this risk of things going off the rails. Is that right?

• 27:40Speaker 04

  Yes. And I would say one of our agreements, again, some of these are adapted by people that we admire, like Stan Tatkin in this case, is to have abundant repair when there is misunderstanding or conflict or some sort of rupture. And that, I think, has been the best agreement for us, to stay really connected. And, you know, abundant repair isn't just like, okay. We're good. Like, I get what happened for you. This is what happened for me. We're good. It's really working something out until we get, until I get to, this is my barometer, is that my body wants to be closer to Will's body. Then I know that whatever

• 28:22Speaker 04

  we encountered is actually making us stronger, more aligned, more on the same page. And that conflict can become a opportunity for deeper connection, rather than there's being, there's something wrong for us. And what I know for myself, if I'm not addressing rubs or tensions, conflict with Will, then I start to go back into the I O S, the I operating system, where I'm just thinking about myself, I'm just thinking about my needs, forget him, I'm disconnecting from him in some form. But when we really practice our abundant repair, then we're really prioritizing the we of us, the, the relationship over what I would do on my own if I didn't stay committed to the connection.

• 29:08Jonathan Fields?

  So Will, and Krista, Tom, if I'm getting this right, like yours, the signal for you that you've practiced this repair on a level where it's actually becoming effective as you, like you want to feel, you, you're returning to this thing of like wanting to actually feel physical closeness to Will again. Will, what's your signal?

• 29:27Speaker 05

  I can tell when there's even just a little bit of tension left in my body that we're not done with the repair. Um, gosh, we could talk for a long time about repair, but there's so much to being courageous enough to keep going until you're finished with the repair. I think that's one of the things that I've learned the most in this relationship with Krista is that what I thought was repair in the past, prior to Krista, was not a complete repair. Almost, you know, almost ever. It's sort of like, I, I'm sorry, I hurt your feelings,

• 30:05Speaker 05

  and apology accepted, and then move on. And but there's no emotional completion to that. It's more of an intellectual exchange, a transaction. Like, okay, I signed the document and submitted it, and now we're good. But the animal body...

• 30:25Speaker 05

  Knows when security is reestablished inside of the partnership, you know, through letting go of the tension. And I think Krista described it well of like wanting to move closer to each other physically.

• 30:41Jonathan Fields?

  It's so interesting to me also that you both referenced this somatic signal, rather than say cognitively of like, all right, I think we're there. You know, like, I think we've talked about all the things that we need to talk about. I think we've resolved like the major issues. You're both like, no, no, like, that's not like, we don't stop working on this until both of our bodies are telling us like, we're good.

• 31:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, for me, if I'm just in the cognitive conversation, then I'm probably missing something because I might be like, okay, I think we're there. Like, but how would I really know that we're there? And if I, if I'm not wanting to feel closer to Will, then like, crap, I have to look deeper. Cause we have our old strategies of staying safe and like, not getting into conflict with each other. So I tend to mine are tend, I tend to dissociate from the negative impact that I've experienced so that I don't have to actually address it. But I think Will, like what you're saying is somehow my body has more intelligence around that. So I have to go investigate a little bit deeper. And we do that often, we're like, okay, are we fully repaired?

• 31:48Speaker 04

  One of us be like, I don't think so. So we have to kind of investigate more. It's not always super clear about what needs to be attended to.

• 31:55Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, it's interesting to me also because my, my signals tend to be really embodied too. What, you know, whether it's conflict or excitement, basically everything might tell us how do I feel? Like even as a creator, as like a maker, as a writer, you know, like when I'm working on something, I'm writing, I'm writing, I'm like, oh yeah, that's kind of like, it's interesting. It's good. And then I'll write a sentence and I'll shake and I'll be like, oh hell. Like that's, if I can do that once more in the next decade, like my life will be good. Um, you know, like there's a really physical embodied thing that, that hits me when I just know something's not just off, but also really on, like really connected, really right. But here's my question, so many of us, and I'm going to get back to, because I really want to get into the details of like,

• 32:39Jonathan Fields?

  how do we actually make these agreements? But I think this is really important because this is how do we know that we're actually sort of like honoring them? We're getting to a place where, you know, like we're good with them.

• 32:49Jonathan Fields?

  I do feel like for so many people, there's an embodied element to it. Like their body gives them information that says, yeah, like we're there. We're closing in or we're there. Like we're ready to, like, we can close the books on this. We can move on. We're good. And yet, so many of us have been through so much capital T trauma, little T trauma, experiences in our life where we have learned to disconnect from all of our embodied signals, from all the somatic things that actually would want to speak to us and tell us how we feel. How do you deal with that? Like when you're actually, when, when a lot of the signals that you're looking for would come from your body, but you have, and maybe for good reasons, compartmentalized, basically

• 33:34Jonathan Fields?

  decided you're living from the head up and you're not getting them. Will, I'll kick that over to you, I think.

• 33:41Speaker 05

  Well, I would use myself as an example in what you're talking about. I grew up in a very intellectual way. I came to understand through therapy that I had retreated into my mind as a safe place to be and not feeling the things that were there for me to feel. And, you know, as I was growing up and, you know, not, not to scare people away from this process that we're talking about, but when you, if you're like me and you've ignored your body and the signals of your body for a long time, when you start tuning into the body, I think this started happening for me in my early 30s with a meditation teacher

• 34:24Speaker 05

  who was a very somatic oriented Buddhist meditation teacher. When you start tuning into your body for the first time, it, it has things to say to you that are not pleasant to hear because it's sort of like you've had a slave locked in the, you know, dungeon of your mind for a long time. But I would just encourage people that it's, it's very worth it to, to do that work because the synchronization between the body and the mind is a beautiful gift that helps you operate your life in a much more efficient, less frictiony kind of way. To to develop that presence is is really worthwhile. And I think many people are growing up in situations, you know, like the one I grew up in where,

• 35:10Speaker 05

  and I think, you know, Krista's too, is just a cultural thing of like, we're very mental in our culture. We don't tend to orient in the way that Krista described just a minute ago of like, okay, my body's feeling something, there must be intelligence there. You know, we we tend to write it off or question it, or even just disregard it.

• 35:31Jonathan Fields?

  Krista, did you have a similar sort of journey from the head into the body?

• 35:35Speaker 04

  Let me think about that. Just kidding. I think I think I did have that kind of journey. Yeah.

• 35:42Jonathan Fields?

  For those not seeing watching video here, she's just like, dude, are you serious?

• 35:47Jonathan Fields?

  The look, I'll tell you that.

• 35:48Speaker 04

  I I mean, Jonathan, I keep attempting to get more and more embodied every single day. So it's, yes, it's it's definitely, but it's definitely been a journey. And one thing that I want to say here in relationship to our agreements and how we do our partnership, in relationship to what you're talking about, small T-trauma, big T-trauma. I mean, Will is really the expert in all of that, in his background, in his profession. But here, what we really stand for, which I think is different from most couples. First of all, we we believe that we co-create everything together. Our failures, our successes, that we we both have a part in whatever our outcomes are. But also that we are standing for the healing of the younger wounded. We call them parts of ourselves. There's different ways to talk about it.

• 36:33Speaker 04

  That that has experienced high levels of either trauma or different things in life that that keep us being in limited perspectives or shrinking down or, you know, not coming to the table, that that both of us are responsible for each other's parts and the healing of those parts. Usually, and I think Will was talking about this in the very beginning of our conversation, usually the narrative is, that's yours to deal with. Go work on that, whether it's on your cushion or with a therapist, and then come back here once you're, you know, got your stuff together. And then we'll be able to move forward. But here, we're actually really taking co-responsibility for our wounded parts to heal.

• 37:14Speaker 04

  And that's, I think, one of the powerhouses of our partnership because I can only heal so much of my, by myself, whether it's with a therapist or something else, but together we can heal so much more. And so much more then becomes possible for me individually, but also us as a couple.

• 37:30Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. I mean, that lands a lot. Let's, let's actually dive into the mechanics of agreements. Because, you know, it's, it's one thing to just say, sit down and write down your agreements, but you know, but let's, let's get specific here, right? If we talk about creating a relationship agreement or a list of relationship agreements, let's start with just like one. What is the, what's the structure of a relationship agreement that actually works? Krista, you want to start herself?

• 38:02Speaker 04

  We have to both understand what the agreement is. It's not just like, okay, it's like we say color blue, the color blue. We all separately think of a color, particular shade of blue, but we're not actually talking about the shade of blue. We're not actually talking about the same thing. So we have to really understand what it is that we're agreeing to, and it has to be applicable in some way. Like, we have to know, okay, this is, this is the moment that we can use that agreement. And there's obviously questions that we could ask to help people be like, where do we even start about what the content is? But for it to be useful, I think those two things have to be in place. And well, there might be other things that you're thinking of, too.

• 38:41Speaker 05

  I think they have to be mostly equally meaningful to both parties, for both people to buy into them enough. So I think there are certain principles that I think work really well, like mutuality, fairness, justice, as a foundation of how two people can feel fulfilled in something that they're working on together, if it's a relationship, business partnership, what have you. And I think both people are gonna get challenged in different ways at different times by different agreements. So that's, you know, maybe we went a little overboard.

• 39:24Speaker 05

  We have 24 relationship agreements, but having more than one, I think, is useful for covering some of the landscape of what can go, what can go wrong and how you can get into tough spots together.

• 39:37Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. So if I want to make sure I'm getting this right, it sounds like, okay, so one, they have to be explicit. Like, you can't just bat it around and assume that you both know what you're talking about. Like, and probably a good way to do it is literally write it down, or record it, or record the audio, whatever it is, but actually, like memorialize it in some way. Mutual, like you both look at this and you're nodding along and saying, we understand what this is, our understanding is the same, and we agree to it. And that the language, the language really matters. You know, be specific and not ambiguous. Is there more? Or did I get anything off there?

• 40:17Speaker 04

  Both committed to it, and they can see that, they can see why it would be supportive to their partnership.

• 40:22Jonathan Fields?

  Let's talk about some of your agreements and kind of break them down a little bit and see how they fall into this. One of yours, from what I understand, and by the way, everyone sort of like joining us, we're, we'll share a link to a downloadable, a PDF, where, I forgot what you guys call this, like the 10, top 10 agreements or something like that, where you can learn more and also learn more about. But, so one agreement, and tell me if I'm getting this right, is we agree to gamble everything for love.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  Oh, that's such a good one.

• 40:56Jonathan Fields?

  Okay. Walk me through this. Crystal, let's start out.

• 41:02Speaker 04

  Okay. So I love that you asked this question because when Will and I realized that we are going to pursue a relationship together, we knew that if we didn't gamble everything for love, that we didn't, we wouldn't create the kind of partnership we wanted. So this was the very first agreement that we made. And to us, it meant that we were gonna put it all on the table. We were gonna, you know, address the rubs. We're gonna bring all of ourselves forward, all the parts of us that even the ones that we hold back a little bit. We're gonna put it on the table to see what kind of partnership is actually here. So it includes taking a lot

• 41:43Speaker 04

  of risks, a lot of being a lot of vulnerabilities, bringing them forward. Will, what else would you add to that?

• 41:50Speaker 05

  Well, I think it's a really helpful anecdote for us personally because we come from, I mean, I come from the South, Krista's Midwestern. We, we come from this sort of buttoned up culture where you maybe would suppress or hold back or delete something that you really, really, really want, but you think it might irritate the other person or make them uncomfortable.

• 42:19Speaker 05

  Like investing in a coaching program that's really expensive, that's gonna take me or Krista to the next level of our career expression, for example. Or, I really want that new bike or something, but it's really expensive and like, what's Krista gonna think about that? Or so on.

• 42:39Speaker 04

  Or like, I really want you to do something differently.

• 42:44Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  You know, that feels very vulnerable. Like, I really want you to show up for me in a different way. Or, I really was impacted by the thing that you did, and here's how I was impacted, and can we talk about that? Those kinds of things, which we, I would say we really practice that today. And if we're not reviewing our agreements, though, we might get a little bit astray, but we come back to them.

• 43:07Jonathan Fields?

  And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors.

• 43:13Jonathan Fields?

  Good Life Project is sponsored by NutraFol. So, real change, it rarely comes from, you know, just one big moment. More often, it comes from the small things that you do consistently, the quiet routines that add up. So, when my wife Stephanie hit menopause, the extra thinning and shedding really got under her skin. She was skeptical, started NutraFol Women's Balance about five years ago or so, and kept going because the change felt steady and real. And over time- She noticed less shedding, improved hair growth and more visible thickness. And that meant relief and confidence and just one less thing on her mind. Nutrafol is the number one dermatologist recommended hair growth supplement brand and the number one hair growth supplement brand personally used by dermatologists. Let your hair become one less thing taking up space in your head and see thicker, stronger,

• 43:57Jonathan Fields?

  faster growing hair with less shedding in just three to six months with Nutrafol. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month's subscription and free shipping when you visit nutrafol.com and enter the promo code GOODLIFE. That's nutrafol.com, spelled N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L dot com, promo code GOODLIFE. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall, that cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scars. But before the Halloween decorations are put away or Thanksgiving table has been set, there's already holly jolly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close. Time to kick end of year into high gear.

• 44:42Jonathan Fields?

  When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases. Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today and start using it right away with Apple Pay. Subject to credit approval, Apple Card is issued by Goldman Sachs Bank USA Salt Lake City Branch. Terms and more at applecard.com. Good Life Project is sponsored by TinCan. So if you grew up in the seventies or eighties, you probably still remember your best friend's phone number and stretching the kitchen phone cord around the corner for privacy. Our executive producer, Lindsay, wanted that same freedom for her kids, eight and 10.

• 45:26Jonathan Fields?

  So in January, she got them a TinCan. Now, friends call the house to chat, make plans and check in without borrowing her phone. They even keep a handwritten phone book next to it. I kind of love that. TinCan is the new school way for kids to talk with their friends. It's a secure landline that lets them call all their favorite people, but with parental controls to keep them protected. No screens, no algorithms, no texting, just a phone being a phone. Kids can only call or be called by people on your approved list. Calls to other tin cans and 911 are always free. And there's even an answering machine for messages that are, I'm told gloriously ridiculous. Go to tincan.com/goodlife to get $10 off your first order. Exclusive for our listeners.

• 46:11Jonathan Fields?

  That's tincan.com/goodlife for $10 off. And when you use our link, you're supporting our show. Tincan.com/goodlife.

• 46:22Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N A, Member FDIC.

• 46:55Jonathan Fields?

  So when you say, we agree to gamble everything for love, the everything in that sentence sounds like it's not, we're not talking about, you know, like a monetary value here. Although it may be like in part, you know, like if you're investing in something together. But it's really like everything is, it's emotional stakes. Like if I'm, if I'm concerned, if I'm feeling really vulnerable, if I'm upset, you know, I'm going to put that on it. I agree to, to, to bring that to the relationship. I agree to not just sit on it, but to actually surface it and let's deal with it. Like I'm going to gamble being uncomfortable, being rejected, being like, like being in an argument

• 47:39Jonathan Fields?

  where I just really don't want to be arguing, being wrong. In the name of preserving this love that we have, does that, is that right?

• 47:48Speaker 04

  You should, you should write, you should write the next Talk to a Relationship Agreement first, because that was amazing. Yes.

• 47:55Speaker 05

  Being willing to be messy and to show, very much like you said, Jonathan, about being wrong, like to, to, to show a neurotic, crazy, incorrect perception. You know, Krista, I have a story that you're judging the crap out of me right now. That's what I see in your face. Is that, is that true? You know, and then it's like, well, yeah, it is true. Or it's not.

• 48:21Speaker 04

  It's usually not what

• 48:22Speaker 05

  Usually not.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  Usually not what we're thinking about our partners and our faces.

• 48:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 48:27Speaker 04

  There's a whole line of work around that, but yeah.

• 48:29Jonathan Fields?

  So it's really about surfacing assumptions too. And risking being wrong about your assumptions and, but also, also risking then resolution. It's like, oh, wow, like Krista, I thought like you were totally judging me. And I'm feeling a little upset and angry about it. And then you're like, dude, I was literally thinking about what I'm buying, like when I go to this like place.

• 48:54Speaker 05

  Exactly.

• 48:55Speaker 04

  It's usually the case.

• 48:57Jonathan Fields?

  You know, it's like, what I'm, what, what, what am I going to do with my friends like down the road?

• 49:03Jonathan Fields?

  It's those unspoken things, right? That's so often relationships. It's, it's, it's what's not said, I think, that gets us so much more in trouble than what's actually said.

• 49:13Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 49:14Speaker 05

  So true.

• 49:14Speaker 04

  Absolutely. And if we're not saying them, we don't understand what our capacity or partnership has. We're not actually leaning in to see what's, what's available to us in our connection.

• 49:25Jonathan Fields?

  I think it was Krista who mentioned this earlier, but one of your agreements also is we agree to repair ruptures abundantly and stay in conversation.

• 49:36Jonathan Fields?

  That's fancy language. Was actually me.

• 49:38Speaker 04

  Is it? Yeah. Well, do you wanna? Do you wanna take us down with that?

• 49:42Speaker 05

  Well, so it's a common phenomenon. I probably, almost anyone can relate to is you're in an argument with someone you care about and they raise their hand or say something sharp and walk away. And there's no completion of that experience. Maybe they come back in the room 10 minutes later and everyone's acting like nothing happened, or that the moment is over, it's passed. And the person who might be tracking that or feeling that the moment hasn't passed and there's something left to do, might not feel comfortable bringing it up. Right? So abundant repair is when, as we were talking about earlier, our litmus test is that our bodies are relaxed and wanna be with each other.

• 50:28Speaker 05

  There's no more sense of concern or edge. It takes time sometimes to get to the abundant repair. But we do have an efficient strategy that we use. And Krista, do you wanna tell Jonathan about it? I'm thinking about the one where one of us is really upset and the other one points to the couch.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  Couch time. Yeah, so this is, this is something that really helps co-regulate each other. So that means basically like I'm not going off on my own and leaving the conversation to self-regulate myself until I maybe feel ready for the conversation, or maybe I'm not even gonna go back into the conversation. But if one of us points to the couch, that means that usually there's one of us who's pretty activated and not regulated, not centered, we're pretty disrupted. And so the dysregulated person will lay on the couch on their back and the less dysregulated person will lay on top of them and will just breathe. And breathe together until there's some sort of somatic relief in the system.

• 51:36Speaker 04

  And usually, you know, it happens after 30 seconds or a minute. And then we can go back into the content. But really staying inside of the conversation is the big point of this agreement.

• 51:49Jonathan Fields?

  Okay, does that really work? Because I'm just picturing one really pissed off person lying down on a couch facing up.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:56Jonathan Fields?

  The other one lying down on top of them. And the person on the bottom just being like, now I'm even more bothered because I can't just lie here and like go into my own space and relax. But you're saying like, this is actually a thing that legitimately works.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  Legitimately, there's a couple of things. Well, you probably know the science better, but for me, it's like the pressure of, well, I'm, let's say I'm furious. And he points to the couch and I'm even like, heck, no, I'm not going to the couch. But because we have this practice, I know that it works. And there's a part of me that actually was like, okay, fine. When I feel his body on me, there's the weight and I start to, my body starts to relax. When I feel our chests breathing together, there's probably something related to mother, I'm guessing. Well, you might know, but like, there's something that actually happens where if I'm willing and just settle down, my nervous system will literally calm down.

• 52:51Speaker 04

  And it might, again, it might take a minute, but, but it does absolutely, at least for us, 100% success rate, like it's never failed for us.

• 53:01Speaker 05

  Well, I think there are a number of things going on. You know, there's the hormone oxytocin, the social connection hormone that gets activated when an infant and a mother are cuddling and there's breastfeeding going on and so on. There's, I think that when two mammals who are in the same family are touching each other, that's happening. There's also interesting electrophysiology happening around heart rate variability and the autonomic nervous system and the social engagement system of the parasympathetic part, you know, the vagal nerve. So there's a lot happening that tips the scale away from, you know,

• 53:44Speaker 05

  overdrive of fight or flight system toward more rest and digest. And it does seem to be more efficient than talking about things. Because when you're very activated, at least when I'm very activated, I often say things that I regret later. But. It's better for me not to allow my vocal cords to be worked by a younger part of me that's really furious, at least in the heat of the moment.

• 54:13Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, what's interesting to me here also is that, so we started out with this single agreement. We, we agree to repair ruptures abundantly and stay in the conversation. Right? Okay, so you agree to that, but then you get to a point where like, there's a really major rupture. Yeah, there's, there's a big fierce argument. And then, so you don't just leave it at the agreement. You're like, okay, so for us to honor this agreement, we need tools and strategies and maybe tools and strategies that we actually don't have at the time we're making the agreement. So then, then part of what you're agreeing to here is also saying, if we don't have those, in order for us to, then we need to actually

• 54:54Jonathan Fields?

  get them. We need to, we need to create them. We need to study them. We need to learn them. That's part of what we're talking about here. It's not just saying, we're going to write down this agreement and try, try and honor it. It's like, we're going to write down this agreement because it matters to us. It lets us uphold the vision of the relationship that we want. It lets us create the union and the impact that we want to have, you know, within the relationship and outside of it. And, but maybe at the same time, we've got some of the skills needed to actually honor it, you know, but this matters so much to us that this is going to actually motivate us now to actually go and develop the skills and the strategies so that we can honor this because it means a lot to me. So it's almost

• 55:37Jonathan Fields?

  like, it tells you where to spend your energy and what to invest in also.

• 55:43Speaker 04

  That's so well articulated. And when, and when we need it, and even when we're just trying to stay optimized as a couple, but also when we really need it, we'll bring in, we'll bring in support if we can't do it ourselves, which is another way of adding to our toolkit, our toolkit.

• 56:00Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. So you shared that you have 24, 25 agreements between you.

• 56:05Speaker 04

  We have 24. We made a 25th about a year ago, but we can't remember what it is. So we'll say we're just going to stick with 24.

• 56:13Jonathan Fields?

  The 25th agreement is actually to write down the future agreements somewhere we both remember.

• 56:20Jonathan Fields?

  Thinking back over nine years together, seven years in marriage, of those agreements, do you have a sense for what the single hardest one has been to consistently honor? Krista's nodding. What do you got?

• 56:34Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, Will actually said it before, which I was surprised you brought that one, but that was great. Which is, which is the agreement to see each other with fresh eyes every day because of how hard it is to realize that every time we go away from each other, something's happened to us, we have new experiences, if we're lucky, we have new insights about ourself, or we, you know, move the needle in our own level of self-development. And when we come back together, we're slightly a different person. And when we commit to seeing with each other with fresh eyes every day, we're committing to the aliveness and the generativity that actually we embody as human beings. And that we're not like, I'm not looking at Will and be like, oh, here we go again, here's Will.

• 57:20Speaker 04

  I already know who he is, I already know what he's gonna say. But it requires that I bring forward something that my brain isn't, you know, maybe habitually used to, which is seeing Will as a evolving, developing human being every minute of his life, even if he's comfortable and, you know, not going after the growth mentality all the time, but he is, he's a different person. So that, I think for both of us, Will, is the hardest agreement that we have.

• 57:49Speaker 05

  It runs counter to what our brain wants to do in terms of conserving energy.

• 57:57Speaker 05

  When we've been around a person for a while, we tend to automatically assume the opposite of what Krista was describing. You know, that, okay, here's the, I know this person. There was, there was a rabbi, I can't remember which rabbi, I'm not Jewish, but there was a rabbi who said, "The worst thing you can say about a person is, I know that guy." And which is a similar message of what we're talking about.

• 58:21Speaker 05

  How do we bring an elevated level of curiosity to every moment with each other?

• 58:28Speaker 05

  And that was something I learned from Krista for the first time is that curiosity is a discipline and a practice. It's not something that just happens spontaneously. In my life prior to Krista, I thought, well, that's just something that I either have curiosity about this situation or I don't. And it's not my responsibility to stay in touch with curiosity.

• 58:51Jonathan Fields?

  That really lands so powerfully with me, both of you, this notion of, especially the longer you are, you're in a relationship with somebody, the more you've been through, the more you've had like versions of the same conversation, you just start to assume, I know this person, I know your towels, I know your values, I know your beliefs, I know everything about you, I know what you're thinking right now, what you're feeling and how you're going to respond. And you just assume, like you know, the next word out of a person's mouth. And it's just so often wrong, you know? And it leads to so much friction, so much conflict that doesn't have to happen.

• 59:29Speaker 04

  Totally. And as somebody, for both of us, I think Will and I both value really being seen and really being known by your partner. And that gets completely missed when we're operating from, I already know you.

• 59:42Jonathan Fields?

  And it's also a weird thing to say, but you don't know me. In a way, it's unsettling, you know? Because it's like, if we're both constantly in a process of growth and change and evolution, on the one hand, we want certain things to always be the same because we feel like that's the bedrock of a relationship. We're concerned that if we're constantly growing and changing, if the puzzle pieces individually are changing shape over time, that, you know, seven years, 10 years from now, if they still fit the way they did in the beginning, that's not entirely within our control and that creates a lot of fear. I think to a certain extent.

• 1:00:25Jonathan Fields?

  We don't want the other person to be different, but then when they show up the same way in a way that bugs you, you like, you punish them for it. So it's like a total catch 22.

• 1:00:37Speaker 05

  We want them to be different, only in the ways that we want them to be different.

• 1:00:42Jonathan Fields?

  Only in a way that somehow benefits us in exactly the way we want it to benefit. Yeah. So somebody who's just kind of joining us and saying, this sounds really interesting. I'm open to the idea of relationship agreements. Where do I start? What would you say to that?

• 1:00:56Speaker 04

  My advice would be to start where the two of you, assuming you're in a partnership, where the two of you tend to have breakdowns and/or continued, continued loops where you get stuck and can't quite get out of where you're getting stuck. And, and if you really look to see, okay, what am I doing in that moment? What are you doing in that moment? What do we want to be doing in that moment? Then you can start to really look to see, okay, what might the agreement need to be or what do we want it to be in order to make it through those stuck areas? That would be one, one area.

• 1:01:31Speaker 05

  I think you could also ask the question in addition to what Chris has said of what is the, what are we up to as a couple? What are, what are we committed to? What are we here to do together? Why are we together? And some couples get together every year and ask themselves that question with fresh eyes, you know? And I think that's a beautiful practice.

• 1:01:56Jonathan Fields?

  It's interesting that you said some people will do it on a regular basis because I'm also thinking, you know, the way that you might step into this would be very different if it was a brand new relationship versus heading towards some major commitment versus a long time relationship, but maybe going through a major change, like kids leaving the house or something like that. It's like, oh, wait a minute. We've had these like other beings in the home with us for 18, 20 years, and it's been a blessing and incredible and also chaos and also a buffer. And now that's not there anymore. Like, who are we? What do we stand for? Like, what is our relationship? And then what are the agreements that we might sit down and make together to support this? And also probably even the question like,

• 1:02:40Jonathan Fields?

  Are we on the same page with the fundamentals about like what this relationship is about? And you know, on the one hand, it sounds like potentially really hard conversations. But at the same time, not having them isn't really in service of anything good.

• 1:02:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think that's so well said. Yeah, it's sort of this balance. I really appreciate what you said a few minutes ago, Jonathan, about how scary it is to imagine that the person coming home from their work day is a different person from the one who left in the morning and how much fear we have as human beings of change and of not knowing what's going on. So that I think there's a balance of feeling that security and having a foundation under our feet, but also feeling the challenge slash adventure of accepting that life is full

• 1:03:40Speaker 05

  of those changes that are always happening to us all the time and developing a way to meet those challenges as joyfully and sovereignly, if that's an adverb, as possible.

• 1:03:55Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, there's an energy in me that's always kind of said stasis is death.

• 1:04:03Jonathan Fields?

  Individually, and I would imagine to a certain extent, I share that same belief when it comes to the relationships that matter most to me. I don't know whether that's right or wrong. I just know for me, it's something that is something I've always believed and I've always felt. And maybe that'll change, maybe that changes for me over time too, maybe seasons of my life that changes to a certain extent also, where just stability and comfort becomes actually something that's much important to me. Like, I'll hold the space for that, but.

• 1:04:36Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, it is interesting the way that we all dance individually with this notion of, you know, security, wanting the security and the stability. And at the same time, wanting everything that growth and evolution and change also gives to us. I don't think there's any one right answer, but it's a question that I constantly ask. It feels like a good place for us to come full circle in our conversation in this container of Good Life Project. If I offer up the phrase "to live a good life," what comes up? So Krista, ask that of you first.

• 1:05:07Speaker 04

  For me, to live a good life is to really be so deeply in contact with what's moving through me so that I can actually share that with others and support others in sharing with me. And I think that, for me, the good life is really having deep, rich connections with the beings around us. It brings me a lot of joy and goodness.

• 1:05:31Speaker 05

  For me, I'm living my best life when I'm chasing ambitious goals of having impact in the world while at the same time balancing those activities with deep connection with myself and the people around me.

• 1:05:45Jonathan Fields?

  Thank you both. Hey, before you leave, be sure to tune in next week for our conversation with Dr. Deepika Chopra about toxic positivity and how to be optimistic without tipping into delusion, distraction, or even harm. So be sure to follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts so you don't miss the next episode. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Chris Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project wherever you get your podcasts. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did because you're still here.

• 1:06:29Jonathan Fields?

  Do me a personal favor, a seven-second favor, and share it with just one person. If you want to share it with more, hey, that's awesome. But just one person, even then, invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter, because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 1:07:24Speaker 02

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the Headline Hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at goo.gle/workspacewithgemini. That's goo.gle/workspacewithgemini.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 1:08:27Speaker 01

  You save, you invest, you keep an eye on spending. So why do your finances still feel so complicated? Quicken helps you put the whole picture together and make sense of what to do next. Connect accounts from more than 14,000 financial institutions and see how all the different pieces of your financial life fit together. With Quicken, you can make sense of your options and decide what to do next. Quicken: Know what to do next. See how at Quicken.com.