How The World’s Worst First Date Led to a Video that Changed Everything

From an anxiety-filled first date involving 100 tacos to becoming a trusted voice for millions, Elyse Myers shares how embracing her authentic self: quirks, struggles, and all, led to unexpected connection and community. In this candid conversation about her new book, That's a Great Question, I'd Love to Tell You https://amzn.to/4q8nhA7, she reveals practical strategies for managing anxiety, setting boundaries, and building genuine relationships while in the public eye. Learn how vulnerability became her superpower and why being exactly who you are might be the key to everything you're looking for. You can find Elyse at: Website https://elysemyers.com/ | Instagram https://www.instagram.com/elyse_myers | Episode Transcript https://www.goodlifeproject.com/podcast/self-acceptance-boundaries-viral-fame-elyse-myers If you LOVED this episode, you’ll also love the conversations we had with Prentis Hemphill https://pod.link/goodlifeproject/episode/NjZjNGY0ZmE0YmMyOWIzNDMyMDc4NTE4 about embodiment, healing, and what it means to truly belong. Check out our offerings & partners: Join My New Writing Project: Awake at the Wheel https://jonathanfields.substack.com/aboutVisit Our Sponsor Page For Great Resources & Discount Codes https://www.goodlifeproject.com/sponsors/ Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jonathan Fields?

  So what if one random video could completely transform your life overnight? That's exactly what happened to my guest today when a story about a disastrous, actually very funny, first date went viral and catapulted her from just working quietly as a web developer to becoming the "internet's best friend" to over 12 million followers. But this isn't just another story about viral fame. It's about what happens when your deepest struggles become your greatest strengths, when vulnerability becomes a superpower, when accepting all parts of yourself, it just opens the door to profound love and connection, and even also how to handle it when in the blink of an eye, you've got millions of eyes staring back at you.

• 0:43Jonathan Fields?

  My guest today is Elise Myers, a creative force who has built community of millions by sharing relatable stories and advocating for neurodivergence, mental health, and just authentic self-expression. Her new book, "That's a Great Question, I'd Love to Tell You," pairs deeply personal stories with her own illustrations to reveal the profound impact of life's smallest moments. In our conversation, Elise shares how a single video about a terrible first date involving, get this, 100 tacos, transformed her life, why she had to redefine her relationship with gratitude, and what happened when she found someone who loved her exactly as she was, even when she kept running away over and over again. We explore what it means to do things scared, to set healthy boundaries, and stay true

• 1:27Jonathan Fields?

  to yourself while sharing your voice with the world. So excited to share this conversation with you. I'm Jonathan Fields, and this is Good Life Project.

• 1:41Speaker 01

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• 2:11Speaker 02

  Hey, we're Nick and Jack, hosts of The Best One Yet. Behind every episode, there's research, emails, spreadsheets, and our shared Google Doc, the headline hammer. With Google Workspace with Gemini, Google's AI is built right into the premium versions of tools we already use, like Gmail, Docs, and Sheets. No new tools or extra logins, just personalized AI for the way we work. That means less time on the work around the work and more time finding the stories worth talking about. Get AI tools for work. Upgrade to Google Workspace with Gemini at go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini. That's go.o.gle/workspacewithGemini.

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• 3:15Jonathan Fields?

  As we had this conversation, you're living a life that is, at least in part, very public. But it wasn't always this way for you. I'm fascinated by stories where there's a really major before and after moment. And for you, there is. Like, we can point to a moment. Take me back a couple of years to sort of like life before this moment.

• 3:36Speaker 04

  Yes, I was a web developer and I had just had my first kid. And I was just working from home. I had just had a baby, so my brain was like mashed potatoes. I mean, it still is, it never went back. But like, very mashed potatoes at that point. I just remembered feeling so disconnected from myself before having kids and feeling like I missed who I was pre, like, having to be accountable to so many people all the time, you know? And so I started to tell stories about my life on the internet and... I thought it'd be funny to like, put little stickers and stuff on them. And I was still doing web development and then people like slowly started watching what I was doing.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  And I started to feel like I was being pulled now in two different directions with like my web development business and then online. And I, and then the big video ended up going viral and it was just like, probably the worst time for like a, like a new postpartum mom to like be accidentally become famous was just like, what have I done? I remember telling my husband the day that that first video really went viral. I just kept saying, I'm so sorry. I've done this to our family. He's like, Elise, you're good. It's just a video. Like, we're just gonna keep going about our life. I'm like, okay, great. But yeah, it just felt like we had, we were in a kind of a transitional period too. Cause I knew I wanted to work and Jonas didn't want to work, but he was working and I was on maternity leave.

• 5:02Speaker 04

  And so we kind of were like, the same day came to this conclusion. He's like, I want to be a stay at home parent. And I was like, oh my God, I don't, this is amazing. Like, we decided to shift our life and he had said, uh, the next 10 years are the years of Elise. This was like weeks before this video went viral. And he was like, you know, you've given so much to our family and you've done so much for my career. And now it's, I just want to like pour into you. And four weeks later, you know, he's staying home with our son, I'm working. This happens and he's like, we said it was the next 10 years of Elise. So like, go for it. And I'm like, okay. And so I just kept showing up and doing what I was doing. I didn't change anything about what I was posting.

• 5:43Speaker 04

  It's just a lot of people now we're seeing it and uh, that's kind of just been the game plan since. But that's just been our life since, I guess.

• 5:51Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. So the moment we're referencing also is, is a single video that you posted, where you recounted in a, in a sort of like a deadpan, but really funny way. What I guess you described as the world's worst first date.

• 6:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. I was like, what's the worst first date I've ever been on? That's a great question. I'd love to tell you. Yeah. It was a guy that, it was like, okay, keep it online dating. And he ended up inviting me out and then I had to end up driving us. And then he ordered a hundred tacos in a Taco Bell drive through and then pretended, not pretended. I think he really did leave his wallet at home. So I had to pay for them and then we ate them in his house with his dad standing over us. And then they asked me to go to their studio and I said, no, and took the tacos with me.

• 6:35Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, that thing explodes.

• 6:37Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 6:38Jonathan Fields?

  It's almost like you're shot out of a cannon at that point.

• 6:40Speaker 04

  And yeah.

• 6:41Jonathan Fields?

  Okay, so granted that you guys had had this conversation not too long before this, hey, we're gonna, we're gonna shift things and it's going to be like, this is gonna be the decade of Elise and you get to be more forward facing and I'll stay. And all of a sudden, you know, like a couple of weeks later and this, this thing happens.

• 6:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 6:57Jonathan Fields?

  It kind of like activates this whole vision, but it goes from a very, very small gradual build to just an explosion of public exposure. I'm curious what that was like for you, like all of a sudden it's like, oh, this is everything that we said we wanted, but is it?

• 7:12Speaker 04

  Oh, no, no, not that. When we said the year of decade of Elise, it was very much like you'll just work with your web development and be home. Like there was no, I would never was like, you know what I want? Millions of people to weigh in on their opinion about me every day. Like that, I mean, I've learned how to cope with that side of it, but like if you were to probably tell me what my life would look like right now at that time, I, I would have never raised my hand to do it because I would just, it's, it has, you have to get used to it so slowly over time, if that makes sense. But yeah, so this happened and the first like few months, I just remembered never being

• 7:53Speaker 04

  able to pay attention to anything going on in front of me because my mind was like racing. Like I just, I like couldn't sleep. I felt like I would try to eat and my stomach was like sick to like, I just felt nauseous because like, I just was so scared that, I don't know, like so many eyeballs were on me and I was like, I just don't want to do anything wrong. And also I'm not going to change anything about what I'm making because I, I was very proud of what I made and I was very good at what I did. So it was like, yeah, like there's this awareness that so many people are watching you, but you're like, okay, I'm just gonna continue on like normal, like nothing's happening. And I think that it just took me a bit to really decide like, is this what I actually want? Because at any point I could have stopped posting.

• 8:38Speaker 04

  It's not, no one's like forcing me to do this, you know? And I had to really decide, like, does this make sense for my family? The huge existential question, like, is it ever going to get more than this? Am I willing to open up our family in this way? My, my son in this way? My extended family? Like, is this a job I can take over my web development career? Because I had built this like wonderful and like robust business with a, with web development. And so I was like, I can't neglect that. It's taken so long and it would be silly to just give that away. And so I really felt like every day I woke up and my mind was just racing with all these big questions. And it, it took me a while to decide, like, yes, we're safe. I'm safe.

• 9:22Speaker 04

  I love doing what I do. This is worth investing into. Like Jonas is proud of me. The best thing I can do for my son is to like have him watch his mom be really excited about her life and like love what she does and like create cool things just because like she loved creating them. And I decided it was worth it to kind of pour all my time and energy into it. And I've just not really looked back since. It's been incredible, but it just, it just felt like so many things I had to consider all at once that I never had to before.

• 9:56Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, it's like there's, there's no ramping period where you get to slowly adjust, like, you know, where your nervous system can kind of slowly regulate into it and be like, okay, here's a little bit more. I'm going to get okay with that. Here's a little bit more. It's just like boom.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, it's not like an actor who like would go on calls, you know, and take auditions and wait for their big break. It's like, it's that, yeah, my brain just was not ready to receive that at that point.

• 10:20Jonathan Fields?

  You mentioned that one of the things that was on your mind is this notion of like, are we safe? Is my family safe? Is my, you know, is my partner safe? Is my kid safe? How do you wrap your head around figuring that out?

• 10:31Speaker 04

  I had to consider really quick what I was willing to share and not share. And if that was going to fulfill me in making content. I think for me, I never wanted to put my family in a position, because of the nature of what I was doing online was like telling stories about my life. I needed to decide very quickly, whose stories am I going to be able to tell? Is it just mine? Is it my family's? Is it Jonas's? Is it August's? Like, where is the line? And Am I comfortable staying within that boundary? Or will that make me feel resentful towards my family? Because I feel like I'm not able to share as much as I want to? Or will it make the world resent me? Because I'm not sharing as much as they want me to share?

• 11:14Speaker 04

  And I had to just decide really quick, like, well, at first I shared my son on the internet because I just didn't know how fast everything would happen. And then I immediately took him offline. And yeah, we just decided like, look, we're just gonna do this until it doesn't feel right anymore. But here's what we're comfy with. And beyond that, if this career demands more from me and my personal life than I am willing to give, then we just call it. And we did what we could and it was a great ride, you know? So I think in terms of safe, like, that's what we mean. Like, we're not gonna share personal details that would make it easy to track us or like, just all that stuff. And I was, I had worked in a little bit of cybersecurity. So I also had this really heightened awareness of how easy it is to find things and information

• 11:59Speaker 04

  and people. And you post one thing, one time on the internet and it lives forever. So I had this very bizarre niche understanding of how the internet worked too. So I kind of was able to safely move forward, feeling like at least I could protect myself well if I needed to.

• 12:16Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, and it's like you had information and you had an understanding of the way that the, the online world works that let you kind of really figure this out. So this is, I mean, we're having this conversation, I guess, probably about four years after this happened, three and a half, four years, something like that, right?

• 12:32Speaker 04

  Four, yeah.

• 12:33Jonathan Fields?

  I would imagine that in that intervening window, there probably was a point, or maybe multiple points where you're like, no, not worth it anymore. Like, this is, I need to, like, this needs to stop. Am I wrong there?

• 12:45Speaker 04

  No, you're not wrong. I mean, I've taken multiple breaks. I think that with every big thing, I mean, this job, this career, like, in content creation and like being like a professional creative and so many different, like, arms and different things, like, It's shifting all of the time and it requires you to be very flexible all of the time. And sometimes like you just get to this place where you're like, I can't actually be any more flexible. Like if I were to flex anymore, I would break. And so I have many points been like, this is not sustainable and healthy for me and I need to like reassess because I've been trying to do too many things or to like give too much of myself or to be

• 13:27Speaker 04

  too visible. The human brain is not built for fame. I don't believe it is. And like, I don't believe that I am meant to have an understanding of what every angle of me looks like from three sixty, top, bottom, below, like how I look like when I walk, how I sound when I'm breathing and not talking, like, you know, all my filler words. I'm hyper aware of all of it. And it's just not normal for the, a human to know that. I like, I don't even think that mirrors should exist, really. Like, we're just supposed to know each other, not ourselves. And so it's a very interesting, it just gets too much. Like, I have to de-center myself from my life sometimes because I become so, I edit

• 14:09Speaker 04

  my face all day. Like, I have to take face breaks and I have to stop listening to what people say about me because people don't know me, you know, like, they think they do, but they don't. And oftentimes, I get to the point where I'm like, I need to step back and reassess so that I can, if I want to keep doing this for the long term, I have as healthy of a version of me as I can to continue giving, moving forward.

• 14:32Jonathan Fields?

  It is so interesting, right? There's that parasocial relationship that develops where people really feel they know you and they know the pieces of you that you show them. But sometimes there's this assumption that says, I'm getting all of it. Like, I'm not realizing that there's a whole life outside of that. And there's a line that you're sort of like constantly dancing. What will I share? What won't I share? What is appropriate? What's inappropriate? What am I comfortable with? What am I not comfortable with? You mentioned earlier, something that I think is really interesting, which is this notion of, can I draw that line in a way that also will let me feel that I'm expressing myself on a level that, that feels good to me, unreal to me, authentic to me, but at the same time,

• 15:14Jonathan Fields?

  Preserve enough for myself or and will me potentially walking on the side of being too regulated, too constrained, lead to resentment in some way, shape or form? You're like, will I start to view my family at some point as not allowing me to show up in the way that I kind of want to show up? That's a really interesting dance.

• 15:35Speaker 04

  It is, and I think that honestly, I err more on the side of being too reserved. And I, I think that it's more so this, and I might be assuming things that aren't real, but I do see comments sometimes of people that are like, why don't you show us your family? Like, I think the resentment sometimes comes from outside in, like the pressure of like, why don't you show me more? You know, and to be honest, leading up to writing this book, I, so much of it is talking about my relationship with Jonas and how we met and like my family life, like not with kids, but you know, that story of like me being a single person and not, that it was two years of writing and copy editing and illustrating these stories

• 16:19Speaker 04

  that I started to realize how much I was going to be giving like of myself and of my story to people. And it made me react in this way where I just wanted to vacuum seal every experience that I had of my family. Like, I got to this point where people like stopped seeing Jonas on my social media and they're like, are you guys divorced? And it's like, oh my God, that's so crazy that like I'm sitting here editing stories all day about us being so madly in love, like, and then wanting to keep that to myself, but the translation of that, because his face isn't on one of my social media accounts is like, you guys are divorced, like that perception of reality and like, you can't just share something once, you have to share it over and over and over and over again,

• 17:04Speaker 04

  or else it just suddenly probably went away and it's gone and life changed. And so, yeah, I think that the more I share of myself, the more I want to hold and hoard in other areas of my life. Like it has, like that extreme has to happen to feel balanced for me personally. I think it would be different if I was a single person, but the experience I get when I come home, knowing that like I, me and my husband are like the only two people that know really my sons and what they look like and what they sound like and what they act like, like to get to put them to bed, to have nighttime routine with hu- with my, with husband. Oh my god, with husband? Just slot him in. No, with Jonas.

• 17:48Jonathan Fields?

  Husband number one.

• 17:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, right? I'm like, what?

• 17:51Jonathan Fields?

  Daytime husband, evening husband.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  Oh my god, sorry. That was really funny. Yeah, like the experiences I get to have with Jonas, once the boys are down, just sitting and eating like crumble in our beds, like watching a show. It's like, there was a time in my career when we would have livestreamed that together, like, because that was how we connected and it was fun. And now it's like, oh my god, you guys are all here for me in 12 hours. Like, I'm just gonna be here with my family. It's so, it's just, yeah, I think it's very interesting. The more you share in one area of your life, to me, the less I'm going to be sharing in another, just to feel like I'm still owning my own life and I'm not giving it away to people.

• 18:29Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I think there's also, and it sounds that you've experienced this in a really visceral way, there's this notion that, once you open a door to the public, it can create an expectation from the community that that door will stay open forever.

• 18:44Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes. There's no changing your mind or taking it back.

• 18:47Jonathan Fields?

  Right. And this is sort of like when you decide, okay, so now I'm gonna kind of close it, not because there's anything wrong, but just because, you know, it's time for it to be closed, or at least like, well, I'm gonna creak it closed a little bit. People are like, what's the hidden message here? What's really going on behind the scenes? And, and then the, you know, the void that that creates, starts all of these stories and all of this spin, because it's just the way we are as human beings. You know, like when there's a void, like we want to fill it with stories. And if we don't, what the facts are, we make up all sorts of wild, like, like I'm raising my hand here. We all do this.

• 19:19Speaker 04

  Yeah. I mean, yeah, same. That's why I watch reality TV. I love it. It's just crazy when it's you that's happening too. It's like inviting somebody over to dinner and they're like, I live here now. This is my home. Thank you for letting me move in. It's like, what?

• 19:35Jonathan Fields?

  It's like, I'll just be over here on the couch when you need me.

• 19:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, what? It kind of feels like that a little bit, but then there's this other side of it that I've built my life and my platform and my business on sharing my life. And so then to like, to then resent people wanting to know is silly of me. And I, I, I never want to go down that route because that's, it's really important to me that people understand, like, I am aware of what my job is and I'm also aware that like boundaries can healthily exist. And I think that like, one of the greatest things I can do as a content creator, besides all the other really cool things I get to do, is like model how, as a highly anxious

• 20:17Speaker 04

  person who struggles so deeply with my mental health and it does that very publicly, like, how can I do this right? How can I do this well for me? And then how, like, maybe another person that does a job that's public in this way can see like, oh, I can actually do both. I can have boundaries. I can save things for myself. I can prioritize my mental health, but I can also share things when I want to share them and make really cool, creative things that are sometimes funny and are also sometimes very serious. And you can do both of those things. And like, I think that the duality of making your job public by sharing public things versus keeping things private and all that, like, I think it's a wonderful thing to get

• 20:59Speaker 04

  to experience if you, and, and work out because it, if you get that balance right, it's so rewarding. It's like the best of both worlds, you know?

• 21:07Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, no, I completely agree. And I think like, you mentioned boundaries a couple of times now and, and it really comes down to that, but it's not just setting boundaries for yourself, it's communicating them in a way that makes clear what they are and why it's important to you. So it's sort of like, hey, listen, I want to let everyone know, this is a decision I'm making. This is where I feel comfortable and this may be something that you understand and maybe something you don't understand and that's okay too. But I want you to understand like, this is the line in the sand for me in this particular context and this is why it matters to me. And this is why I'm going to be showing up in certain ways and not showing up in certain ways. And years ago, I remember having a conversation with the wonderful author, Anne Patchett. And it may have changed now, but back then, she didn't have a cellphone.

• 21:52Jonathan Fields?

  She was like, if you want to reach me, there's a phone wired into the wall next to my bed in my house.

• 21:56Speaker 04

  That's the dream.

• 21:57Jonathan Fields?

  And I was like, well, why? Like, take me behind this. And her answer was, I'll get a little bit wrong, but it was something like, why on earth would I ever want to knock eight more doors into my house?

• 22:07Speaker 04

  That is so true.

• 22:09Jonathan Fields?

  That is such an amazing way to describe it. And then she followed up by saying, look, everything that you ever need to know about me, you can read in what I write. You know, like, even though she writes mostly fiction, she's like, it's all in there. And she's like, I'm very intentional about leaving so much of it on the page. And so it's a really interesting way to kind of think about those boundaries and like the doorways. And also, because it also informs how you show up as a writer, as a creator, as a maker, and informs like how you share also. Knowing that, you know, whether it's telling stories or whether it's offering advice, whatever it may be, people are going to, it's not just the what happened.

• 22:51Jonathan Fields?

  It's like, what is this telling me about who this other person is and how I feel connected to them? Not just the story, but them as a human being. It's such an interesting dance.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  It is. And I think, oh, my God, I could have a whole thing about the phone. The phone is a big thing for me. Like, you email me and you have to tell me you emailed me because it's too much. It's too much. It's too much. I can't do it. I have like, I can text my husband back. And beyond that, we're not meant to be that contactable, dude.

• 23:22Jonathan Fields?

  I get it. You're preaching to the choir. I totally get it.

• 23:25Speaker 04

  But it's impossible. You can't not, you can't not have a phone and not text. Like, it's the world.

• 23:30Jonathan Fields?

  Right. Whether you're a public person or not, these days, we all have so many channels that sort of like come into us. Everybody struggles with this. Everybody I know struggles with this.

• 23:42Jonathan Fields?

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• 24:25Jonathan Fields?

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• 25:10Jonathan Fields?

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• 25:51Jonathan Fields?

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• 26:13Speaker 01

  With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One Bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends. It's pretty much all he talks about, in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See CapitalOne.com/Bank. Capital One, N.A., Member FDIC.

• 26:47Jonathan Fields?

  I'm curious about something else here also. You share very openly, like that you're somebody who has struggled with anxiety, with issues of of mental health. And, you know, belonging is something that is near and dear to you also, and it's something that you seem, this has been like a perpetual quest that you've been consciously aware of since the time you were a kid. When you open the door, like, all of a sudden, boom, you're shot out of a cannon, and there's a community of millions of people who are participating, watching you, sharing you, interacting with you globally. So all of a sudden, like, the world forms this massive community around you. Does that actually

• 27:29Jonathan Fields?

  solve for your lifelong yearning for belonging in any meaningful way?

• 27:35Speaker 04

  I think in a very superficial, shallow way, like the, my ego, for sure.

• 27:44Speaker 04

  I think that there is a part of me, it's two answers. The more obvious answer, like you have millions of people that follow you now, like does it, I mean, you must feel like you belong. It's like the little kid in me that got left out of a bunch of stuff is stoked, right? Like, oh, my God, we made it. Like, to all the people that didn't, you know, it's like that, that silly ego of it. But that keeps you good for like a week and then it gets so old. Cause it's like you just need more and more and more. The healthy part of me that is looking for actual connection and belonging is not fed with this,

• 28:24Speaker 04

  which might be, sound surprising, but I believe that my purpose to make people feel like they are known and loved and like they belong is more clear than ever because there's millions of people that are like, what you are creating makes me feel seen. And I think that's so beautiful, but it's also so lonely. Like this job can feel so lonely and it's only reaffirmed to me how important like in-person connections are with people that I know in real life that know me, that aren't forming opinions about me by the videos they're seeing on the internet.

• 29:05Speaker 04

  And this has been a recent shift I've tried to make, like from, I want you to see yourself in me to, I want you to learn what you're learning and gathering from these videos and then take them to a person in your life and like chat about it. And I think that's been a, a switch just in the last, I would say, January, because when my son Oliver got the all clear on his heart, it was like, I had no one to really talk to about it. I realized like, I didn't want to tell the internet. I didn't want to process that kind of trauma with the internet. I could process with Jonas, of course, but we're both like equally traumatized by this and like, we're getting the all clear, which should have been like the best news, you know?

• 29:49Speaker 04

  And it was like, my body finally went into this, like, I didn't have to fix anything anymore. Like, I didn't have to stay high alert to receive a fire hose of information and make sure I'm making the right decisions and 12 of them at once. Like, my body just got out of fight or flight mode and I just became very angry and really sad and like, I wished I would have had more friends in real life to like process that with. And I was like, being known, I mean, first of all, if there's no one in your life that makes you feel known and like, or like you belong or loved, like, I'm so honored that I get to be that person for somebody. And then the next step is like, how do we find that

• 30:30Speaker 04

  in real life? Because when people are going through real things in real life, they can't call me up, like, and I want them to have somebody like that. And so I think that my understanding of belonging has shifted as I've done this job. And it's made me crave in person and honest interactions with people. And I think that I've tried to shift the way that I make content so that people search for that in person as well. So it's kind of a two part answer. It's like, yes, it has, but it's also only increased my desire to belong, I think.

• 31:05Jonathan Fields?

  And it sounds like it's also shifting the way you think about what you create in terms of you're telling your own stories, but in no small part as a way to hold the mirror up to people to be able to say, I see myself in this. And now let me go have a conversation with somebody next to me about what I'm seeing here. And maybe we can see this together, like in real life, in person, so that they can have that. And tell me if you're comfortable with this line of questioning. You just mentioned about your son.

• 31:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:33Jonathan Fields?

  That's his story, but like your side of it is, you know, like you had a kid. Yeah, you had a kid who was going through, you know, like major health crisis. And I'm curious also, oftentimes when somebody is living that public life and creating in public, there are the stressors that happen every day, the anxiety that happens every day related to that. And we've talked about some of this. And then what drops into your world is a kid who's in crisis. And when that happens to any parent, it completely changes your perspective about what matters. In the blink of an eye, you're like, oh, wait a minute. Oh, right. This is all I really care about at the end of the day.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, I say to anybody that I'm talking to, like, the person that walked into that, that doctor's office, like, that was going just for a routine four month checkup, like, she died. She's gone. She literally doesn't exist. Like, on a cellular level, like, brain level, that person does not exist anymore. Because how could she? My whole life, just, I mean, when you, when you have to sit there and question, like, am I going to outlive my not even one year old son? That person doesn't exist. And like, I'm so grateful that we are on the other side of it, and I won't. And like, he's so healthy and great. Like, we joke, he said, we say that he takes life chest first, because he literally just like runs straight like

• 32:52Speaker 04

  chest first into things. And now, and like, gets injured, and it's amazing. He's like a healthy kid. But like, your life just turns completely upside down. And what is important is just, that was another of like, I want to like, vacuum seal my family's life, because it's so precious. Like, it's so precious to, to have a family that I, I like, want to protect. And it, I just became protective over that, in so many different ways.

• 33:17Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. I mean, how could you not? As you describe, you spent the last couple of years, not just creating in real time for an online audience, but also dropping into a book, which is a profoundly different experience.

• 33:29Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 33:30Jonathan Fields?

  I'm six books in, I guess, on, on my side over many years. And, and having, you know, spent time creating online and like, doing the deep dive to create, you know, a really long work. It's just so radically different. In your book, you really take us back to moments, big and small, some hilarious, some really heart filled, that shape, in no small way, how you move through the world to this day. And what's so interesting is that, so many of the moments, the stories that you tell, that there's micro moments. There are the things that seem so innocuous on the surface. And yet, decades later, you're writing about these, because they like, they clearly, they have stayed with you, and shaped you. You know, you start out the book, writing about this, you know, in chapter entitled

• 34:15Jonathan Fields?

  Lucy. You talk about Halloween night, you know, dressed in what you thought was a ghost costume, it kind of looked a little bit more like Swiss cheese. And you pushed through the fear to knock on the scariest house in the neighborhood, and came away with something very unexpected, that then set in motion, events that kind of changed the way you processed fear in an interesting way.

• 34:36Speaker 04

  What's so funny about memories is that a lot of the really, really, really big ones are just a given. Like, they're those, like, you know, little centerpieces of your life. But like, The ones that really shape your understanding of yourself and other people could be so tiny. Like, some of my biggest insecurities I know exist because of one single comment someone said. Or like, some of the ways that I have perceived how people perceive me have been from things that didn't even happen, but I made happen in my mind. Because you said like, there was a gap, so I was gonna fill it. Like, so much of that is the book of like, there was a gap, so I filled it. And I filled it incorrectly. But, and then I'm like, working out, like, meeting back in the middle of like, what the truth is

• 35:20Speaker 04

  and, and who I am and how others see me and how I wanna see myself. And like, it was such a pleasure to sit down and write these stories. Like, most of them actually didn't even start for the book. Most of them were things that I was writing for myself. Because I was either trying to do like, a coffee talk. Or like, I write a lot of like, poems. And then, as I started putting it together, originally, I was like, I need to do a chronological, like, essay, like, ten, eight thousand word essays about my life. And it'll make sense, and it'll, it'll tell the story of my life. But then, as I got to thinking, it's like, no. The biggest moments of my life really did come from really, really small moments. Like, memories, you know?

• 36:03Speaker 04

  And so, I wanted to make it seem, feel like that. I wanted it to seem like, visually, like, you're walking through like, a, a modern art museum of my life. And it's not gonna be chronologically, like, chapter titles of every year I was alive. But, you're gonna see these like, really random pieces that all kinda tell a story by the end of it. And then with like, the, the illustrations, it's just like, oh, man. I'm just so proud of this. Like, I, I am so proud of this book. And, uh, it's, it was really special to go through and make it.

• 36:34Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, it really, it is vignettes. I think it shows up as a series of vignettes, right?

• 36:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

• 36:40Jonathan Fields?

  It's like, you know, quick glimpses into moments.

• 36:43Speaker 04

  I'm gonna steal that, thank you.

• 36:44Jonathan Fields?

  Absolutely.

• 36:46Jonathan Fields?

  And when you're describing that, what came to mind was an old friend of mine, Dani Shapiro, wonderful writer also. She writes a lot of fiction, but she wrote this really short book about, I think when her, she celebrated her 20th anniversary with her husband called Hourglass. And it was not linear in any way, shape or form. And it was just a series of short vignettes into moments of a 20-year marriage where she wasn't writing about it in past tense. She was very much in it and very much wanted to continue for the rest of both of their lives. But she wanted to do justice to it also and be honest with it. And you were jumping through time, you know, like backwards and forward with no context and no start and no end and no clear chapters. And, but there's something about doing that that draws you in in a really

• 37:29Jonathan Fields?

  like visceral way. I think that's powerful. And I love, as you described, like with you also, you've got your own illustrations that are kind of like flowing through this whole book as well.

• 37:38Speaker 04

  Well, to like, because I was jumping around so much, I found that you would all of a sudden, like the theme of something would be more important than like, obviously, the timing of it. So that if you randomly were like, now we're in Australia, how did we get here? You know, I did little like, in the illustrations, I made it clear you're like going into this new place. But like, you know, it's very clear, like, you don't ask any questions. Like, any questions you have about how you got here, this is, just don't, it doesn't matter. And so I really appreciated doing that. It was really fun.

• 38:10Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, you have to kind of surrender a little bit.

• 38:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:12Jonathan Fields?

  In that opening story, let's bring that home a little bit, because you go out, you do the right thing, you show up, you go to the scary house, you come home, you reach in, and you pull out a little, like the classic magic eight ball keychain, like that tiny little thing, which as anybody knows, you know, you kind of, you shake a little bit and it kind of like helps you answer questions. And knowing that you have this as sort of like your guide allows you to then deal with sort of like an invitation a week or so later that leads to some pretty major social anxiety. But it becomes like a go-to for you. And it's something where you could lean on and say like, okay, so this is making the decision for me, and then I'm just going to roll with it. And I'm curious, if we zoom the lens

• 38:55Jonathan Fields?

  forward as we have this conversation, and as you've described, there's still things that you get anxious about socially, personally, and so many of us do. I'm wondering if you still have something, an object, a ritual, a phrase, a device, a tool, that now helps you figure out when to say yes or no to things that scare you or make you nervous.

• 39:15Speaker 04

  Oh, my gosh, yeah. Well, first of all, I had Lucy until I was in high school.

• 39:22Jonathan Fields?

  And by the way, Lucy is what you named the Magic 8-Ball just for.

• 39:25Speaker 04

  So it said Lucky, but when I was writing in my journal, I was really bad at K's. I was trying to write, because it said Lucky in cursive, like that old school, you know, tattoo cursive. I was like, I hate K's. So I just skipped it and wrote Lucy, and I was like, that's cute. And so I called her Lucy, but my mom was like, really not okay with magic. So I had her in this shoebox of my things, and my mom had like a garage sale and ended up selling a bunch of my stuff when I was at my dad's house. And that didn't tell me, just handing me some cash, and I found out Lucy was in there. Oh, my God, devastated. So then, that was around the time iPhones were coming out. So I remembered there was a Magic 8-Ball app that you could download.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  So I used that. I'm telling you, me becoming the mascot, used that. Me like, doing any major thing. When you ask yourself, like, how did Elise get into all these situations? I used a Magic 8-Ball to make all of my decisions for me. And so after high school, I stopped. I stopped when I moved actually to Australia, because I realized if I could do that, I could do a lot of things. And I kind of adopted the idea of doing it scared, around when I was getting my driver's license, and I was afraid to drive on the freeway. And I ended up learning I could have a panic attack while driving on the freeway, and then getting off and finishing my panic attacks. I had this very big fear I was gonna like, die on the freeway and hurt people.

• 40:55Speaker 04

  And it was an irrational fear, but a big one. And learning like, I could do things scared, and just do it scared, was, I didn't make that connection when I was using Lucy. Like, I was young and didn't understand that's what was happening. But then as I got older, I started to reflect on those moments of using the magic eight ball. And it was like, what that showed me was I really can just do things scared. I've held on to that. And because of my anxiety, like, I can't trust my instincts on things, because sometimes you should be scared. Like, there are things like you shouldn't do that should be scary. So that's why your fear kicks in. It's like, that's not a good idea. But I have a really hard time balancing those two. I have a few, like, you know, for my

• 41:40Speaker 04

  family, we have a few filters that we make all of our decisions through. Like, does it keep us healthy and together? And like, through my job, I want to make people feel known, loved, and like they belong. So all my content is through that lens. And so, and I have a few personal ones. And so I have these filters for my decisions. But if they check all those boxes, and I still don't want to do it, it's like, well, you're just going to have to do it scared then. And so, that's kind of just the main moral of what Lucy is. That's the moral of that story is like, you can do things scared. But sometimes it helps to have a little thing to help you get through it and be like, it's gonna be okay. So no, I don't have, to answer your very long answer to your short question, I don't have anything I use now. I think that I've just outworked doing it scared

• 42:25Speaker 04

  so much in my life that I don't need that physical ritual to do. But Lucy, like, forever lives in me. Like, she is a part of me, and she always will be. And, yeah, what a cool story to open up on. As if I didn't write it. Sorry. I'm like, that's a great story. Sorry. I just love these stories.

• 42:45Jonathan Fields?

  It's like if they open you up at some point, like, on one side, they'll see your heart, and right next to it, they'll see like, the magic eight ball, just like, in there forever.

• 42:52Speaker 04

  Totally. She's so great.

• 42:54Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah. And we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. This message is brought to you by Apple Card. Ah, fall, that cozy season where we swap the swimwear for sweaters and sunnies for scars. But before the Halloween decorations are put away, or Thanksgiving table has been set, there's already holly jolly music playing in the grocery store, reminding you that the year is coming to a close. Time to kick end of year into high gear. When you use Apple Card with Apple Pay, you earn 2% daily cash back on all purchases, including food, decorations, gifts, and more. Get a head start on your end of year purchases. Apply for your Apple Card in the Wallet app on your iPhone today.

• 43:38Jonathan Fields?

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• 44:22Jonathan Fields?

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• 45:37Jonathan Fields?

  You know, a lot of what you write about, it's really sort of like describing more as like a bit of a moving target, something that you chase even when life seems objectively full on the outside. So take me into that.

• 45:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, I think the idea of more is like, there's a difference between something being right on paper and something being right. And I think that when you grew up, like I grew up where I just wanted to get things right. I just wanted to be right in right standing. And I wanted to make decisions that I could talk about that people were like, wow, like you did it. You know, you fulfilled this thing that you wanted to do. Like, more is essentially about a relationship I had where if it worked out, it would have been good. It would have been really good. And like, I would have lived my whole life where I was like, this is a very good relationship and I'm happy, right? And I think it goes through of like,

• 46:32Speaker 04

  I think there becomes a part of healing for a person that realizes like, it's not enough for other people to be happy with my decisions. I need to be happy with them as well. Because at the end of the day, like, I'm the one that has to live in this life that I build around me. And I don't want to feel like I'm drowning in it. I don't want to feel like I'm so happy there isn't any room to be like, fulfilled and like, want more, you know, just this, I just felt like I was really locking myself out of all of my hopes and dreams by trying to imagine saying yes to like, this person that I was going to be

• 47:09Speaker 04

  with. And the end of it is like, this non-ending, is this everything you really want? Is like, do you really want more? Or, or is more too much to imagine?

• 47:25Speaker 04

  There's this one line, I think it says like, "He's everything she wants to want, which means everything that she wants." Like, "If you don't think about it." And like, "Please don't ask me to think about it," kind of a thing. Yeah, it's like being okay wanting more and being okay that happy isn't good enough, that you want to be just like obsessed with your life and what you have around you. So that's kind of that, which was really interesting because then it set me up for meeting Jonas, which was that next section.

• 47:51Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, but that question of enough also, you know, like more over and and not like where? And when are you settling? And when are you legitimately just not getting what you need?

• 48:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 48:02Jonathan Fields?

  Something that so many of us struggle with.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  Totally. And I, I think it's about love, but it's because that was like the one way I could probably communicate it best. But like, it's just in every area. I've been in so many situations in my life where I just have been like, this would be so great. I want to want this so badly. I want to want this. I want to be happy in this. And I think part of it is so interesting because like I'm neurodivergent. And so I latch on to things. I always have a thing that I'm obsessed with or like that I want to keep learning. I'm a self, I, I love teaching myself things. I'm never really happy just chilling. I have to kind of always like have a thing I'm working on. Like right now, I'm learning Excel spreadsheet formulas.

• 48:48Speaker 04

  It's really all I can think about. I'm sitting here right now thinking about, I solved the problem in a, one of my columns that I've been trying to figure out. And I just, as we're talking, I worked it out. So it's like, I always have a thing. And um, I think that that season of my life, I couldn't accept that about myself because that made me feel like I could never be happy. Like I, I just was someone that was always not content because I was made to feel that way about myself because I was surrounded by people that didn't understand me and didn't care to have me understand me or give me the tools to do that. And so that season of my life, it was like, I was so hell bent on just accepting things as they were because if I wanted more, that meant I was greedy, that meant I...

• 49:33Speaker 04

  People spend their whole life wanting these things that you have. So like, why not be happy with it? And it's like, those are two separate conversations. I could be so happy with this, but like, I just didn't know myself. I didn't know that there are certain quirks I have that I just needed to fill in me. That this person that I loved that was good couldn't fill in me because he didn't know me and understand me in that way. And so, yeah, that story represents so much, but like, especially as a neurodivergent person, I hope someone reads that and is like, oh, my God. I have been in that place so many times in my life and I'm so, I'm so grateful now. I'm married to somebody that is like, just champions those hyper fixations like crazy. Like, I told him I wanted to start making kimchi, but I couldn't until I mastered checkers or chess.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  And so he would like play chess with me and then like got me a little thing of kimchi to keep in the cupboard. He's like, we'll get there. Like, it's just, I don't know how we got to that point in this conversation, but that's more, really. If boiled down, it's the kimchi and the chess, you know?

• 50:31Jonathan Fields?

  As it always does. It always comes down to kimchi and chess.

• 50:34Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 50:35Jonathan Fields?

  No matter what the question starts with, that's where we end.

• 50:37Speaker 04

  Yes, yes.

• 50:38Jonathan Fields?

  And as you said, this sort of like leads to the story about Jonas. And when that relationship really starts to kindle, what is it about it that tells you that like, oh, this is actually it?

• 50:50Speaker 04

  You know, I think that every time I read the story because it is so crazy that we actually ended up like up together. Like, how, I don't, it's, there was this persistence in him that gave me permission to run emotionally and mentally and be afraid. And he wasn't afraid of it. I think that I was so used to having to pretend like I was good and everything was fine to make other people around me feel comfortable. Because I have always been a very volatile person, like because my mental health has always gone up and down. And it's the best it's ever been in this season. I have longer stretches of being well than not. And when I'm not well, I know how to handle it, but I wasn't always like that.

• 51:35Speaker 04

  And so having this person meet all of me with all of him and being like, this doesn't scare me. I'm not going to try and fix you. I don't think you're something that needs to be fixed. You're not a problem that needs to be solved. I love everything that I see in front of me and trust me, I gave him all of it. I ran away from him every single time. When he asked me to be his girlfriend, I laughed and said, are you joking? When he asked me on the first date, I said, no. And then I said, I'll buy forever. When he asked me to marry him, I didn't even say anything. I just said I was gonna throw up. I tried to cancel our wedding because I didn't want people to look at me. My mental health is so bad. I was like, I just don't want a wedding where people are staring at me in front of the room. He's like, we'll go to a courthouse.

• 52:17Speaker 04

  Like, I physically ran away from him in parking lots when we would. I would drive 12 hours to see him. And then I would see him in a parking lot and be like, well, I'm too scared now. And like, start physically running. And he would like, put me on his shoulder and like, take me back to my car. And like, it was, he just kept saying like, until you tell me to stop chasing you. In a, in a very consensual way. We're not talking like really, but like, until you tell me to stop, like, I'm just gonna keep showing up because you're worth showing up for in every way. And that was the most radical form of love I had ever received in my life, ever, from anybody. To just be met with, you don't see me as a problem?

• 52:59Speaker 04

  I said, like, if, if I was like this forever, from now until 500 years, when we both take our same dying breath at the same time, and we've lived for a million centuries together, like, if I never changed, like, would this be okay with you? And yes, 100% yes. He always was okay with me. And I was like, that is somebody I want to align my life with. And that is such a radical idea, that to somebody who has been treated like a problem that needs to be solved their whole life, to receive that from somebody is life-changing in every way. And that's how I knew. At that time, I couldn't really vocalize that. I could, but I couldn't.

• 53:41Speaker 04

  But man, 10 years later, I'm looking and I'm just like, there's, I mean, it's a no-brainer. Of course, of course, we ended up together. And I'm so glad we did.

• 53:49Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, but in the moment, it's like, if the only patterns that you've known for your entire life leading up to that moment are, you know, like, almost the opposite.

• 53:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 53:57Jonathan Fields?

  It can be so jarring. It's almost like, what's wrong here? What's wrong with this person? What's wrong with this situation? This can't be real.

• 54:04Speaker 04

  Totally.

• 54:05Jonathan Fields?

  And in fairness, sometimes it's not, you know?

• 54:08Speaker 04

  I mean, it never was. Like, people did that all the time and they were lying.

• 54:11Jonathan Fields?

  Right, you know, there's narcissism, there's love bombing, there's all these, these different things. And for you to sort of like, keep pushing back and for him to keep leaning in and saying, I'm just gonna keep showing up.

• 54:24Speaker 04

  Yeah. He's like, I'm always gonna love you. I'm never gonna leave you. Like, those two lines. I mean, there's a story where we, everything was going great. And I was like, well, it's probably time I end this now. So, and I was like, I just need space. And he's like, great, come to Kansas. Like, I bought you a plane ticket. And it's like, that's just him in a nutshell. He's like, you can run away if you wanna run away, but I'm gonna be here. Just let me know when you want me to stop. And I never wanted him to stop. I just kept running away, but I was like, don't stop, chase me. But like, I just need to run away for a second, you know? Just crazy. It's so cool.

• 54:55Jonathan Fields?

  I mean, it's beautiful when things like that happen. And it kind of circles us around also to the, um, to the notion of gratitude, which is something that you, you speak about and you write about as well and just... And it's interesting, right? Because the conversation we were having earlier about more, on the one hand, we sometimes have people telling us, like, just be grateful for what you have. You know, as if you can't be grateful for what you have and simultaneously...

• 55:18Speaker 04

  And still want more.

• 55:20Jonathan Fields?

  Want more. And then when you finally get to a point where you're like, no, I'm just legitimately grateful and I'm good. And I wonder, and I wonder if you think about this, whether you ever think about that as, is this just the way it's gonna be? Or is this a moving target? We constantly have to hold as sacred, as precious, and make sure that it never leaves.

• 55:41Speaker 04

  Do you mean gratitude in general? Yeah. Well, to be honest, like, gratitude as a concept is something that I have had to mend my relationship with because of what you were saying of like this idea of like, you can't want more because then you just are ungrateful. So I used to practice gratitude in a very self-serving and shallow way. I felt like I had to be grateful to then also earn the ability to want more for my life. And now my gratitude comes just from this place of like, every good thing I experience, I almost missed it. I almost missed it. Like, I almost took myself out so many times.

• 56:25Speaker 04

  Like, I almost took these experiences away from me. And I think as an adult, and the more big things I've gotten to accomplish, and even just like the, not big in terms of like fame, like, big like having a kid and then making it through like a day where I just like had a really good day and a really shitty day at the same time. You know, like I had really good things happening, really shitty things are happening, like... Man, the ability to hold those two things at the same time and not lose it at the end of the day is like, at least 10 years ago would not believe you. And like, I think that for me, like, that's why my gratitude section is so long in the book. It's like,

• 57:06Speaker 04

  because there are so many people that watched me go through it. And like, I just think I see so many wonderful things that I get to experience now through the lens of like, the 13 year old, the 16 year old, the 18 year old, the 21, the 27 year old, that like, felt like, man, life was so not worth it because it was too hard. Like, is it gonna be this way forever? So I think now, as an adult coming from that place, I want so much more. And there's also like, 10 million times more to be grateful for. And like, I know how to hold both of those equally and like healthily in my life. I don't know if gratitude is an ever moving target. I don't know if I would say that. I think

• 57:47Speaker 04

  it's something that I have to pack in a backpack with me and keep on me at all times. Like a marathon runner with their sugar gel. Like, I have got to keep packets of that stuff in every cargo pants and like jackets of it. Like, just, I've got to hold on to that because that feeling is so powerful for me that it, that makes me want more. The gratitude of like, I almost missed it. And it's like, okay, we're gonna load up the docket now because you almost missed all this. We're gonna keep going, dude. Like, we've got so much more to experience. So I don't know if that answered your question.

• 58:23Jonathan Fields?

  Yeah, no, I think it did in a way that only can you can answer it. It feels a good place for us to come full circle as well. So in this container of Good Life Project, if I offer the phrase, "To live a good life," what comes up?

• 58:36Speaker 04

  To live a good life, you have to know yourself. I think that you need to take time and know yourself because I, I think that in the last maybe four or five years of my life, like, they have been the richest years I've ever experienced. I've spent the most energy just figuring myself out and catching up because I didn't get that when I was younger. And um, yeah, I think I would just, anybody that's looking for advice in that way, it's like, yeah, just gotta know yourself. You gotta take time and get to know yourself. Because it's really important and it matters a lot.

• 59:14Jonathan Fields?

  Hmm, thank you.

• 59:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 59:19Jonathan Fields?

  Hey, if you loved this episode, you'll also love the conversation we had with Prentice Hempel about embodiment, healing, and what it means to truly belong. You can find a link to that episode in the show notes. This episode of Good Life Project was produced by executive producers Lindsay Fox and me, Jonathan Fields. Editing help by Alejandro Ramirez and Troy Young. Christopher Carter crafted our theme music. And of course, if you haven't already done so, please go ahead and follow Good Life Project in your favorite listening app or on YouTube, too. If you found this conversation interesting or valuable and inspiring, chances are you did, because you're still listening here. Do me a personal favor, a seven second favor, share it with just one person. I mean, if you want to share

• 1:00:00Jonathan Fields?

  it with more, that's awesome, too, but just one person even, then invite them to talk with you about what you've both discovered, to reconnect and explore ideas that really matter, because that's how we all come alive together. Until next time, I'm Jonathan Fields, signing off for Good Life Project.

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