The New Puberty with Dr. Sheryl Ziegler

Puberty is starting earlier than ever. Dr. Becky and Dr. Sheryl Ziegler dive into why—and how parents can support kids through this big transition. They explore what early puberty looks like today, its emotional and cultural impacts, and the tools caregivers need to stay connected and confident.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  After my first baby was born, I treated my own recovery like a complete afterthought. If the baby needed something, I showed up immediately. If I needed something, well, it would wait. But research shows that when parents have the support they need, they're better able to care for their children. Taking care of yourself isn't separate from parenting. It's a huge part of parenting. That's why I love Frida's mission to prepare women for the realities of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and feeding. Frida creates solutions for the moments that often catch moms off guard. The Postpartum Essentials Kit and Breastfeeding Survival Kit help women feel more prepared for those early weeks of motherhood. Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today.

• 0:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Today's episode is a really good one. I am talking with Dr. Sheryl Ziegler, who is incredible about puberty. And if you're already thinking, oh, my kid's not getting to puberty yet. I think this is a conversation, I know this is a conversation, you are going to want to listen to much earlier than you might think. Not from a place of panic, fear mongering, you need this zero. From a place of, oh, that's interesting. Oh, I hadn't thought about that before. Oh, I didn't know that. Oh, I actually feel more empowered and confident. That's the feeling I know you're going to get today. That's the feeling I got. And so I'm so excited for you to be here. I'm Dr. Becky. This is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this.

• 1:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sound, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodot, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves,

• 2:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only. I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean.

• 2:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset, together as a family, before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space, and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 3:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hi Cheryl. Hi, how are you? I am so excited to talk with you, and for so many different reasons. But one of the reasons I truly want to dive into puberty and talking about puberty with kids is, number one, I have a 13 and a 10-year-old. Like, holy moly puberty. Yep. And... I don't think I've really ever said this out loud before. It just hasn't really come up. Like my own puberty journey, I think truly was atypical in that I went through whatever version of puberty it was, very, very late. You and I are still looking for the height component. That one never really hit either of us, the growth spur, you know, but like

• 4:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I didn't get my period naturally. Like I have, and I can talk about that. It probably won't be the focus of our conversation, but the reason I'm starting with it is because even for my daughter, like it's not even like I have had my own lived experience of being in these age ranges and like having my body kind of do the very natural thing it's supposed to do. And so in addition to wanting to always talk about the topics people don't like to get specific about, I just like always have a love for those topics. And this is one of them. Like I really know that my journey was outside the norm, right? And so I want to be so much more equipped. And so that's what we're going to talk about today. If we all start with, well, what was my puberty experience? Was I on the earlier

• 5:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  side? Was I on the later side? What worries did I have? Even what I said to you, it's like the bigger gap probably between whatever our kid is going through and we go through. Like if you have a kid who's on the earlier even normal side and you are on the normal later side, like that's going to feel like a very intense thing for you. Like, oh, why is this starting? Right? Or if your kid is late and you are early or mid, like we all have that baseline and just starting with that is so important.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  It's so important. And I think it's important for parents to know, like you're saying, what is normal today?

• 5:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  Right? Do you know it eight years old for a girl is on the earlier side of average, though. If you have an eight year old, that is not a reason to necessarily go see an endocrinologist.

• 5:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like if I have an eight year old who I'm like, I feel like my eight year old has breast buds.

• 5:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 5:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Or my eight year old has pubic hair. Let's just name it. Like, are you saying like that? That's early, early normal these days?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  Early normal. Early normal. You can go to the pediatrician because you probably will because it'll that, you know, that's like second grade. That's second or third grade.

• 6:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  And so parents are like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, what's going on? I've had parents even say to me, I see their eight or nine year olds sitting in my office with clear, you know, small breast buds. And they say, oh, no, no, there's nothing going on there. And I'm thinking, wait, really? And this, this is not a one off. This happens often where they'll say, no, no, no, like, none of that's going on. And I'm thinking, but I'm looking at her. I can visually see it.

• 6:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Right? So whether it's a block because we're uncomfortable with that, we don't want to acknowledge it. I think that there are parents, and just to even that out, boys, it's nine. So a nine year old boy, but the thing is a nine year old boy, his first sign of puberty is going to be an enlarged scrotum and his penis grows.

• 6:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 6:47Speaker 01

  And by nine and 10, you don't, you're not usually giving them baths anymore. You're not seeing it.

• 6:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  So they're going through even potentially those physical changes and parents aren't seeing them. They don't notice it in a boy until he starts smelling or his voice starts cracking or he starts, you know, kind of growing bigger. And by then he's been in puberty, honestly, probably by then could be two years, even three, if you think of it as puberty, starting in the brain.

• 7:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  So it's like, when you think of it this way, and what's happening, childhood, actual childhood from like toddler to childhood is getting shorter

• 7:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 7:22Speaker 01

  and shorter, which there's some real sadness, even some grief there for some people.

• 7:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so just, I want to mirror a couple of things back to see if I got it right. Number one, just, are you saying puberty is starting earlier than it did decades ago?

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes. So in the, we'll start 100 years ago. 100 years ago, it's five, it was five years older. So we're five years younger than 100 years ago. Think about Freud, what he called this stage. He called it latency.

• 7:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Nothing's going on. Everything's relaxed.

• 7:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Everything's latent.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  Yes. Yeah.

• 7:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  It's latent. Take a breath. And it's like, oh, I'm so sorry to tell you, but you have like two years to take a breath. And then

• 8:01Speaker 01

  It's starting. So parenting is harder than it was 100 years ago.

• 8:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  We don't have the latent period.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yes, there's no like maybe when they're six and seven, maybe.

• 8:11Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  But like the other thing, so since the 1980s, the stat is every decade, three months younger per decade.

• 8:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 8:21Speaker 01

  And it's continuing to trend that way. And the pandemic is what made this for me go beyond just, oh, this is a class that I really love giving to actually, this is part of a mental health crisis.

• 8:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  And this is something I don't think that I can just keep to myself. This has to get bigger because endocrinologists, just like psychologists were saying, obviously, there's a huge mental health crisis. Endocrinologists were reporting, there's all of these young kids coming into my office who have breast buds and who are in puberty. Why is this happening?

• 8:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 01

  So it really all kind of came together about four or five years ago.

• 8:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Wow. And so puberty is starting earlier. That's a fact. Girls, eight, early, normal in 2025. Boys, nine. And at the same time, the eight and nine year old by gender, one is going to be a lot more visible, which makes me think, might parents worry more, oh, my God, my girl's starting puberty so early even more than their sons?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Yes. And the data says that it is more worrisome for girls. The list of potential negative outcomes or things that put them at greater risk is actually horrifying. It really is increased depression, increased anxiety, increased sexualization, earlier sexual activity, or high risk behaviors, substance use, cancer. I mean, it's a long list. I've narrowed it down. I've consolidated it to like 10 factors. Whereas boys, and this is really worth thinking about, they get praised for earlier puberty. You're the tallest in the class. You're the one to get muscles first. You're probably going to be the fastest.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  So you're taller, faster, stronger. In our society, that's praised. That's, we look at that. You see a girl who's nine or 10 and she's developed, we start sexualizing her really early.

• 10:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  The things we need to be aware of for early puberty for girls versus boys, right? But and what you said really resonated and how boys, it's kind of these traits that we praise for girls. It can be hypersexualization at a young age, but I think there's another layer. Which is that we don't often talk about puberty, right? Like, I often think, what would it be like? Like, can you? I don't know if you thought about this. Imagine nobody telling you any part of what pregnancy would be like. Like, can you imagine? Like, literally, you're like, what's happening to my belly? Like, if, if nobody told you your, this whole part of your body was going to get very large, your breasts were going to change. I mean, obviously, anything about the arc of pregnancy, can you imagine how much worse than it already is?

• 10:58Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Kind of prenatal and postpartum depression would be, right?

• 11:01Speaker 01

  Look, I just got, I just got the chills thinking about it.

• 11:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  Like, I've never thought of that analogy, but that is so true.

• 11:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And that's what we do, right? That's basically what we do, right? And now that I'm in it with two of my kids, like, having your body physically change, it, it feels like this deep existential crisis. Like, am I me? Like, am I going to survive this? What is, literally, people are like, my kid likes to be in control. They, they won't let their sister go and, you know, play the board game first. Okay, well, then think about that child when puberty isn't explained to them? And that child has breast buds, or suddenly, they're like, my scrotum is bigger. Like, that is going to feel ridiculously out of control. And so when I think about the risk to girls, and I don't know, I've never considered this, and I don't know if you have, maybe we could just talk about it.

• 11:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Could any of the increased risks for early puberty for girls be doubled, quadrupled, really by the fact that when you don't talk about it with girls? And given that for girls, it is so public and so obvious to everyone else, that that could be part of the risk factor? Can we reduce some of the early puberty risk for girls through helping parents feel more equipped to deal with their awkwardness, preview what's going to happen, talk to their kids? Like, could that actually reduce the risk?

• 12:24Speaker 01

  So that is like, that's like the spirit of this book. This book is like the roadmap to initially, right? In 2021, it was like, we have to do something about the teen mental health crisis. And I'm like, but what, what happens in the stage before? And it's like, exactly what you're saying. So for a girl, if she knew, it's not just her education, which is absolutely needed, but this is where it starts. I have this little part in the book where I say, here's how to talk to people about not commenting on your daughter's body. And here's a script, literally, here's what you say to grandma and grandpa. Here's what you say to the coach. You know, you say to a coach, something like, hey, you know, you know, whatever Jane's gonna be coming to your practice today. You know, there's a good chance she might be the tallest girl that you're going to see. I'd really appreciate

• 13:08Speaker 01

  it if you don't comment about her physical body. She is still a nine-year-old girl. And the world already tells her over and over. And so there's these expectations on her. I just don't want to put them on her. I mean, when I practice it, it's easy for me because I've practiced it, right? But if I just said to you, hey, Becky, so the next time you go somewhere, just tell the coach, just tell him to stop commenting on your kid's body. Like, you'd be like, all right, how am I gonna say this? And it's like, we, we have to model it for them too. Even if in the moment, we walk in and grandma, grandpa say, whoa, look at you. You're such a young lady. First of all, they know what that means. You're such a young lady means you're sexually developing, right? And so you're such a young lady. Look at you in that dress, right? If we say things like, you know what, this past week, there

• 13:51Speaker 01

  was a spelling bee at school and they got second place, or we just got, you know, our itinerary for this camp, then they're gonna try diving off a diving board for the first time. You switch the conversation. They are a child. We're not commenting on our, on their bodies that they have no control over. We're gonna talk about childlike things. I think that even could literally change because I say, this is a societal issue. This is not for just parents. Oh, just parents alone are gonna change how we talk about puberty. This is a bigger issue. It's a systemic kind of issue.

• 14:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So I think that's so powerful for parents because I think sometimes we often think like, I have to say something back to that person and maybe we do, but maybe we don't. Maybe it's actually just about shifting the focus, right? I think our kids, like our kids notice what we value and how we think about them, not by what we say, but by the questions we ask, by the conversations at dinner. Right? And so even shifting to, oh, ask Jane about, you know, her piano recital is, you know, going to have a profound impact and whether or not you tell off your in-law in the moment. Like that's up to you, like based on your, your, you know, whatever feels right.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  I mean, you're exactly right. Like you don't have to be confrontational. If you're proactive, like you can be really, really proactive and say like, hey, you're, you guys are coming over, you know, Jane's 10 or Jane's nine, she's growing a lot. Like we're just, we're not focusing on that though. There's so many amazing, cool things she's trying right now. Let's just focus on that. That can be proactive. That doesn't sound, I think, super confrontational or just in the moment. People are going to throw you off for a loop. They're just going to, they're going to say something, you know, and just parents having it in the backseat, like, you know, their back pocket, like, yeah, this is what I'm going to say in response, becomes easier and then dad is comfortable with it. And then all of a sudden, you know, aunt is comfortable with, and everybody gets on board, but it does probably have to start with a parent or like the primary caregiver

• 15:47Speaker 01

  being aware to do it.

• 15:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah. And so there's how we respond to other people talking about it. And then I guess I, I think the thing I want us to dig in a little bit more, I have some thoughts about it too, is just how we talk to our kids about it, separate from, you know, the coach or the in-laws who might say inappropriate things.

• 16:11Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I'm ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere, or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home. On the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty,

• 16:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content.

• 17:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 18:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let's jump off with this. What's scarier to a kid? Puberty itself? Or not feeling prepared for puberty?

• 18:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love that you asked it just like that because I just did a segment yesterday about talking to kids about hate crimes and prejudice. And one of the things I said was it is scarier for kids to not know. Right? Rather than to know. It's anticipatory anxiety. I talk about in the book, the anticipation of is oftentimes worse than, hey, this is what it's going to be like. And I always say to the kids, like I say to the girls, I just say, I only do it with girls so far. I'm going to develop a boys' class, but not yet. So I say to the girls, you guys, nature is so amazing. And this is how I talk, by the way, like the way you're going to hear my voice change, like, you guys, nature is so amazing. It gives us like two, three years to go through this. Can you imagine? It's like,

• 19:10Speaker 01

  it's low and slow. And sometimes there might be like a little, we call them spurts, but like, they're short. And then it just goes back again to low and slow. And before you know it, you guys are 15 and 16, and you're all caught up with each other. That's my tone. That's like my casualness around it so that they don't think, I know some people will joke, like, my kid went to sleep and they woke up six inches taller. That didn't literally happen, but I totally get what they mean. It's probably more like your kid went to sleep day one of summer, and by first day of school the next year, yeah, they might have grown three or four inches. That's true. It feels dramatic, but it's not literally. Right? So the way that we talk about it, and it's like what you started with, we have triggers. We have, and this is not

• 19:52Speaker 01

  just women, we have women, we have men, whether it's their menstrual cycle, whether it's, you know, just their brain, their moods. Why was I yelling at you? Why did I tell you I hated you? Oh, my gosh, you're like my favorite person ever. Why don't I want to be best friends? Why don't I want to play with dolls anymore? When I say that one in my classes, there'll always be, I'd say like, a couple of girls, one to three girls, that will cry. And they'll be like, but I want to keep playing with dolls. And it's like, heartbreaking, because they know, they feel like, the day puberty is obvious, or I get my period, I got to put the toys away. And it's like, that for a parent too, to say, no, you don't. But you know what? Your brain, it's got all these hormones flooding in it. And so that's why one day, you might feel like

• 20:37Speaker 01

  throwing those dolls away. And the next day, you feel like you secretly want to take them out and play with them. And they need to know the brain part, too.

• 20:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That's exactly right. And to flesh out that, or because I think probably it's like, one day, It's like, I don't want to play with these dolls anymore. Dolls are stupid. I throw them away. The next day I yell at my mom for throwing away my dolls. That's probably what's gonna happen. And the mom just has to be like, oh, you wish you had them. Like, don't be right. Don't. You threw them away. I've done that too many times. It just doesn't tend to end up in a good place. Um, but that, that's what it is. I feel like that's so much of puberty. I don't want my dolls anymore. I act on it. The next day I wish I had them. I can't tolerate that feeling. I act it out. I look at my mom. I blame my mom for doing it, even though obviously she didn't even know I threw out my dolls in the first place. Right? And all of this in kind of 24 hours.

• 21:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And the other, the other thing that I think really guides so much of my good decisions as a parent, never my bad decisions. Um, is that like kind of information doesn't scare kids. It never scares kids when it's delivered from a trusted, loving adult. But noticing changes without having information terrifies kids and adults. So you could think about this in an environment unrelated to puberty. You hear uncle whoever, cancer, chemotherapy, a few weeks to live. And everyone's like, oh, he's fine. You're like, well, I, I noticed those things and I don't have a story to understand it. That's scary and unformulated and just free floats as anxiety. And I think about that example and talk about it with parents all the time. But then

• 22:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  what if instead of the changes being random snippets from a conversation about your uncle, it's the body you live in having changes you didn't expect. I, I mean, it's literally more visceral. This is the thing we are in every day is our body. And so yes, I think, you know, it's interesting, women wise, right? Puberty, pregnancy, menopause. We have more stages than that. Perimenopause, like on these ends, the puberty and the perimenopause, we're maybe having our day of. Like, let's explain these to people. Like, having these things just happen to you, right? We have work to do in pregnancy too, but at least we tell women that their body will change.

• 22:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, no one today is like, what is happening to my, you know, belly button? And so, yes, talking to kids, and I know, and maybe we can transition to this. Talking to kids matters. Helping kids anticipate it and knowing this. It almost pre-loads them with, oh, at least I knew this was gonna happen. Like, what human doesn't like that?

• 23:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Can you, like, I don't know if, like, as you're listening, think of a time, maybe you did tell your kid something. Or the kid that comes over, that's like, this kid is so savvy. They know, like, all these things going on, right?

• 23:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  And they're just like, oh, yeah, I already know that.

• 23:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 23:27Speaker 01

  Yep. And they, and they literally, remember, this is industry versus inferiority, six to 12. This is like, they wanna be good at stuff. They wanna learn stuff. So if you go, oh, yeah, and by the way, this happens and that happens, and like, you have these mood swings, or your body changes this way. They will walk around like, head held high. I know what's happening. They'll, they'll be proud.

• 23:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  And that's the thing, it's like the de-stigmatizing.

• 23:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 23:50Speaker 01

  Of puberty, of talking about things that are awkward or uncomfortable. Like, I wanna eventually get through that, where this isn't an awkward conversation. This is like perimenopause and menopause are having their moments. It's like, that's amazing. Now we know. I feel more empowered. I know what to do. I know what kind of doctor to go to. I know.

• 24:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't feel crazy. I don't feel crazy.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  I don't feel crazy. This is normal. This is no, oh, wait, other marriages go through this? Oh, wait. Other friendships go through this during this time? Like, if we don't talk about it, and we had this probably for hundreds of years, but at least for the last hundred years, where women weren't talking about what was happening to them, they were suffering in silence.

• 24:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  And these kids maybe aren't, quote, suffering in silence, but they're certainly, they're going through things, they're scared in silence. And then what do they do? Cause they're kids and they're curious. They go online.

• 24:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  They're gonna find the answer, the way we did. We went to older brothers and sisters.

• 24:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Totally.

• 24:46Speaker 01

  They're gonna go online, and it's pretty easy to get in there and just ask the most embarrassing question.

• 24:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes. And, and I think, you know, we want our kids to be curious about their bodies.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 24:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Like, you can't ever get mastery over anything you're not curious about. So like, before- Before you get mastery over something, you have to have curiosity. So curiosity is a good thing. And curiosity is really powerful. Like, once curiosity about anything is there, it's going to move its way into knowledge and figuring it out. And one way, if we don't talk to our kids, is the random kid on the bus or the internet. I think the other way, and this goes back to the data, is behavior. It's just you act. We act out what we don't have language for. Literally, that's what, again, if like I was, I don't know, in a foreign country, any country that speaks any other language but English, and nobody understood me, do you know what I would do to communicate with them?

• 25:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I would act it out because I don't have verbal language. And so I think there's this fear from parents, and I'm curious, how you think about this, like, I don't want to share, and I actually, I asked some questions to our Good Inside community, and they shared some of their fears or their barriers. And one big concern is, I don't want to share too much too soon, or if, if my kid asks me about one thing, like, for example, I have a good story about this, like, my kid asked me about a 69, but they don't even know what oral sex is yet. So how, how do I speak about this? And I think there's this fear that if I share information, kind of my kid is

• 26:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  going to act out more. But I do find this idea of when we have language for things, we all tend to act out less.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, my wheels are turning as you're talking. Like, I, the first time that notion really, really came to me was when we started seeing suicide rates go younger and younger, and all of a sudden, we have 10 to 14 year old actual category. And that was the time where I would hear from parents like, no way, I would never talk to my kids about this. I'm not going to give them ideas. And I really do understand that fear. Like, oh, I mean, this is not something anybody wants to talk about. However, the data consistently shows, the more we talk about it, the more we give them language, the more permission we have to say, like, yeah, there's some really hard days. And you know what? Life is kind of like this ride. Do you know that? Like, one day

• 27:16Speaker 01

  you can feel up, and the next day you can feel down. And we then, all of a sudden, we open up the space. It doesn't give them ideas. It gives them psychological safety to say, hey, guess what? This is one of those days where I just feel like, what is the point of life?

• 27:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  And then you've talked about it already. So you're not going to be reactive as the parent. And this could be about any topic, right? And you just kind of go like, all right, I'm going to meet you right where we created the space, right where you're at right now. And this is going to be safe for us. If you don't have these conversations, they will be happening elsewhere and it won't be you. And I like to say like, up until about 11 or 12, you are the single, you, the parent are the single most influential, most important person in that kid's life. And 13, 14 comes and it's their friends.

• 28:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 28:04Speaker 01

  And they're looking for their identity. So if they don't have that with you, the parent now, we don't know where they're going to go, but their curiosity is going to be there.

• 28:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 28:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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• 29:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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• 29:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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• 30:26Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so let's talk about awkwardness. So most parents, right, so I did a poll on Instagram, so I'm going to read some of these stats to you.

• 30:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Did you have an adult talk to you about puberty? Okay, no, right, so easy. Seventeen percent said yes, a lot of things. Forty-one percent said some things, but not others. Forty-two percent, definitely not, are you crazy? That's what, okay, okay. And then what is your comfort level talking about puberty with your kids? Seven percent, ah, I'm terrified. Fifteen percent, pretty uncomfortable. Forty-four percent, this is the biggest, comfortable with some things, but definitely not others. And then the rest felt comfortable. So let's talk about that sixty-seven percent. Because to me, even if you're comfortable, but definitely if you're in the sixty-seven percent vast majority,

• 31:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  awkwardness is coming along for the journey of talking to your kid. Like, it's kind of like, it sounds like, I want to be really motivated to get out of bed in the morning and then I'm going to go to the gym. Like, if that's me, I'm like, well, that day's not coming. Like, I never wake up and like, I cannot wait to go to the gym. Best decision ever, like, I gotta get there with the lack of motivation. So I think for parents, this idea of like, how do I overcome the awkwardness? And then talk to my kid, like, I believe, I don't know if you do, like, the awkwardness, especially if you are someone where someone never talked to you, it's a sign that you have literally never had someone in the entire lineage of your family put language to this. So awkwardness, you know, is kind of the sign of newness.

• 32:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So how do you, you, you work with so many families around this? Like, when a family, when a parent says like, I just feel too awkward or I'm gonna be awkward or I'm gonna get it wrong or I'm going to fumble. Which I think everyone listening to this is like, oh yeah, I want to know Dr. Ziegler's answer to this. How do we deal with that?

• 32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, the first thing I want to say is no parent goes into this saying, oh, I'm gonna skip an entire developmental stage and not tell my kid all this important stuff. No parent, right? Every parent is like, I want to do the best that I can do. And you know, I know, the best you can do is usually as far as you've come, right? You can only take a kid as far as you've gone. Like, if you're not willing to say, like, I tell in the book that my own son, who was 11 at the time, was in fifth grade. He comes home from his sex ed talk and I'm thinking like, I'm sure I've covered, like, I feel like I've covered most bases, but I probably didn't cover everything. So he walks in confident and it wasn't, quote, awkward, right?

• 33:06Speaker 01

  And I'm like, how was it today? And he was like, I was fine. And I go, did you learn anything that we haven't talked about? And he's like, yeah. Now he says that confidently. He's like, yeah. And I'm like, oh, cannot wait to know. He's like, you didn't tell me that I could wake up in the morning with wet stuff in my pants? Yep, didn't, I didn't, didn't talk to him about wet dreams.

• 33:24Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Classic wet dream conversation.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  I mean, so for the percentage of people on your little poll that said, yes, I'm confident, are they talking about masturbation, pornography, wet dreams, ejaculation? Like, there's this, there's a lot of levels. Like, there's one thing to say, hey, bud, you're gonna grow taller and get a deeper voice and it might crack and like, your muscles are gonna get bigger. And then to continue to progress, oh, you're gonna maybe start liking people in a different way than you have before. Okay, that gets a little harder. I've done this many times with thousands of kids. So I know, like, I know where, like, the entry point is, like, pretty comfortable in the room. And then I know when people start pidgeting. So I forgot what your original question even is, but like, I'm sucked into the world of thinking about that.

• 34:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, no, it's great. So I, a parent's listening to this and is saying, okay, like, I hear this and I do want to talk to my son, let's say that, about the fact that, like, he is probably gonna have a wet dream or he might, or what that is, right? Or, let's say, I want to talk to my daughter about masturbation, right? Any of these kind of, we're now level three, we're past level one and two, okay? Um, and they say to you, or me, like, I feel, I- I feel awkward or I'm I'm going to be awkward. I am telling you, Cheryl, I will be awkward. How do you, how do you help? Like, how do we help people through that?

• 34:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I think you think about your style, right? What works for you? And I like, let's just pretend I like to role play.

• 34:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Let's do it.

• 34:53Speaker 01

  You asked me, literally you. I would say, okay, so what's your style with your kid? Like, do you think a book is gonna be good? Do you think you want to watch a movie? Do you want to let them know like that you want to have some talk? Or do you want to just kind of casually bring it up? First, give me the setting. Like, tell me your style, right? And then, I don't know, like, tell me truthfully, what would be your style?

• 35:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, I, I feel like I have a lot of very, I feel actually fairly comfortable talking to my kids after I've done some work with my own puberty and just feeling like, I find this stuff so empowering to talk about.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Experience share then? Is that like the way you come in, maybe?

• 35:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I feel like some of my best conversations about these types of topics are like, while, like, while we take a walk, while we're in the car, like, not the like, I'm gonna sit across from you and look at you in the eyes and talk about masturbation. Like, I don't think anyone, I don't know, that's not, you know? So, like, kind of, a kind of, there's a third there, there's something else that's happening.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  So like, then I would be like, okay, great, so let's make sure that that's the setting. Okay, check. And then I would say to them, say the word or the topic out loud. And like, most people will start to laugh. And I'm like, cool, get it out right now. Like, just get it out.

• 36:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  That'll lead to, they'll say to me, they'll say-

• 36:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Don't bury the lead.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 36:11Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Just like, put it out there.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  Just put it out. Like, come on, let's do it. And so like, get your own comfortable. And then they start laughing and they're like, ah, and then like, I've never said these words to my kid before. I'm like, okay, great, get it out with me. And then what I say to them is, do you know you, A, you don't have to have the answers to every question. B, you do not need to be smooth. You are not, you can say to them, yeah, on a walk, in your case. Like, you know, I know we were watching, I always like a little bit of a context. We were watching that movie last night. Remember that kid, they started at 10, and then he was 15 when he was done? There were all these changes in him. You know, like, one of the things that can happen, I don't know. Do the kids talk at school at all about like things like masturbation or whatever? And you might get initial like, Mom, and you're like, I know it's uncomfortable. It's a little bit uncomfortable for me too, but you know what?

• 36:57Speaker 01

  I love you so much that I'm willing to have this uncomfortable conversation.

• 37:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  And if I can be brave, you can be brave.

• 37:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 37:04Speaker 01

  Now you're at their level. Like, you know, I'm not going to say like I'm beyond awkward and I can't deal. Then I shouldn't be having it, but I'm a little bit uncomfortable.

• 37:11Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Say it to your kid.

• 37:13Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And, and you're, there's something I love that you're doing there. You're all kind of like, we're in this together. Like, it's not like I am like person up here giving you some lecture and you're feeling awkward. So I love that. I'm curious what you think about this because one of the things I tell parents a lot, because talking to parents about how to talk to their kids, yeah, about sex, about pleasure. I, I love these topics too. And I find just saying to your kid in the start, look, I might be awkward while I talk about this, but let me tell you why from the start. It's not because talking about it is wrong. It's not because your interest is wrong. It's not because a question you asked me is wrong. Truly, like no one talked to me about this and I'm kind of the first person in the family to talk about this. And so new things tend to feel awkward. So that's why.

• 37:55Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And, and then, because I do feel like sometimes unintentionally, kids can code our awkwardness as wrong. Like not that we're wrong, but that the topic is bad and shameful when I think always awkwardness means new. It could be wrong, but it's definitely just always new. So I feel like again, preloading that to a kid, it, it helps kind of again, helps contextualize your awkwardness.

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I love, I love, love, love that so much. And I also love, like I find this line, I've started to use it more and I'm like, oh, this is very effective in my own parenting. Just to say, you know, I've never had a 12 year old boy before. Like you're my first 12 year old boy, or I've never had, or I've never had this conversation. And so like almost asking them for some grace before we even start, like I might be a little bit weird. And I definitely don't know all the answers. Like I want you to ask me all your questions and I promise I'll get them.

• 38:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 38:48Speaker 01

  Also not just going to make up answers.

• 38:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 38:51Speaker 01

  And that, if you set the tone from the beginning, all of a sudden I'm already calmer. Cause you're already presuming you are not the expert. You don't know. Everything but like, hey, let's do this together.

• 39:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Love that.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Everybody's stress comes down because they are going to ask you something you are not going to know the answer to, or you're not positive.

• 39:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, or I find a line that I've used a lot. Sometimes it's true and sometimes like, I just need a, I just need a moment. You know, is that's a great question and it deserves a great answer. I'm going to come back to you. And then sometimes I'm like, okay, I didn't know my daughter was going to come off the bus and ask me these questions like in public in our, you know, our lobby. And so sometimes I've used that when I'm literally, and it could be something about history, or it could be something about the body. And sometimes I think I know the answer. I'm just not prepared to say it in that moment.

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 39:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And either way, that, that, that proved to be useful.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  I love that. That's a great question. That deserves a great answer. And I probably only have like a mediocre answer for you right now. So like, give me like an hour or give me till tomorrow. I love that.

• 39:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Give me a quick text with, a quick text with my mom friends.

• 39:53Speaker 01

  I need five minutes. Let me chat you BT, let me, let me.

• 39:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Talk in the mirror. I can do this. I can feel awkward. I hear Cheryl and Becky's words.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  And we can do this. Yeah. I love it. I hope people listening are like that relief because I think there's pressure on parents that we have to know everything and we have to know the perfect thing to say. Like, by the way, the greatest thing to say maybe to one of my kids, isn't the greatest thing for yours or vice versa, right? You just don't, you gotta try this stuff out. And by the way, if someone, I know someone listening right now is like, okay, I tried this and it went horribly wrong. I already, like, what can I do? And I'm always like, you repair it. Hey, you know, the other day when we talked about that thing, like, I did not even know what I was talking about, or I got so uncomfortable. I didn't even see that coming. I've thought about it. You deserve more. Can I go back? Can I redo that?

• 40:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So beautiful.

• 40:44Speaker 01

  That is so humbling and kids, there, there's just, there's a time where yes, you are the authority, you're the one in charge, but there's also a time, especially when you're bonding and attaching to your kid during such a critical time, to just be like, I am learning right alongside with you. This is amazing for me. And they might be like, well, doesn't it feel so amazing for me? I know, I can imagine that, but it's kind of really cool for me. And let them see your excitement and also let them see your celebration. Your body is doing amazing things that deserve celebrating. How cool is this?

• 41:19Speaker 01

  You know, just the energy and the excitement around your body's doing what it's supposed to do. It's like when you're growing a baby and someone's like, look at you, right? Your belly's growing and all these things. And you might at the moment be like, well, it doesn't feel so great. My feet are swollen. I'm nauseous. I've thrown up. But your body is doing what it's supposed to do. That's a beautiful thing. Like, it's just such a, it's like, it's like a hug. It's like a warm hug. Like, it just feels comforting.

• 41:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Well, this conversation has felt like a warm hug to me. I know it will feel like a warm hug to everyone listening. And I think you and I have such a similar pep talk to people. Like, you're amazing for listening to this. It clearly says you're the type of parent who wants to have conversations that probably weren't had with you. That's the best it gets. In terms of what happens next, it's going to be awkwardness. It's going to be a repair. It's going to be, oh, remember when I said that was a disgusting question? That, that, that was a me thing. Let me explain that. Let me try again, right?

• 42:16Speaker 01

  Or an inappropriate question, right? For some people, we didn't talk, this would have been forbidden.

• 42:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 42:22Speaker 01

  Right? If you said, kind of gave your kid the message, like, we don't talk about that. Or like, and now you're thinking about it and you're like, why'd I do that? Just go back.

• 42:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hundred percent. And look, this is as good inside as it gets is there's nothing more powerful than repair. Want to have a good moment with your kid? Mess up, check. We've all done that. And then repair. That's gonna be the best moment of your day. And so this follows that guideline too. So, thank you. You are incredible. I hope this is the first of many conversations we have. I think I speak for everyone listening. Also, in knowing that they just want more of you. So, thank you for all of your important work and for just the way you share. So relatable, so usable, so, so deeply human. And I'm really grateful. I was about to say that I hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. I have a feeling you enjoyed this episode as much as I did.

• 43:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I want to make it really easy for you to do what I know you naturally want to do next, which is go get Cheryl's book. So, this is The Crucial Years. It is just something that should be a staple in your home and is so, so valuable. So, here's The Crucial Years. And as always, if you liked this podcast episode, the podcast in general, please rate and review it. I read every single thing you write and it actually really contributes to what I do next. Your voice really matters here. I'm so grateful to you.

• 43:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know that feeling when your brain is at full capacity, right? I mean, you have a reminder from the dentist in your email, a birthday party invitation on the fridge, and your kid just texted you about a soccer game they forgot to mention until that moment, and you just cannot remember one more thing. That's where Skylight Calendar comes in. It's an all-in-one digital smart calendar that syncs with Google, Apple, and Outlook to help your whole family see the days and weeks ahead. And I really love the Tasks feature, which is designed to help your kid build routines around things like homework and chores. And when your kid can do those things independently, it's a huge win for everyone in the family. Skylight Calendar is so much more than just a calendar. It's something you can add to your routine

• 44:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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• 45:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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• 46:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

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