Let’s Talk Bullying With Dr. Sheryl Ziegler

Few things feel more triggering than hearing that your kid is being teased or left out. If your first instinct is to “fix” the situation - text the teacher, call a parent, march up to school - you’re not alone. But as Dr. Becky and Dr. Sheryl Ziegler explain, our own wounds can make us miss what our kids need most. This episode unpacks why bullying feels so personal - and how to reset before you react.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  After my first baby was born, I treated my own recovery like a complete afterthought. If the baby needed something, I showed up immediately. If I needed something, well, it would wait. But research shows that when parents have the support they need, they're better able to care for their children. Taking care of yourself isn't separate from parenting. It's a huge part of parenting. That's why I love Frida's mission to prepare women for the realities of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and feeding. Frida creates solutions for the moments that often catch moms off guard. The Postpartum Essentials Kit and Breastfeeding Survival Kit help women feel more prepared for those early weeks of motherhood. Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today.

• 0:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Bullying. I mean this, just saying that word makes my whole stomach drop and it also makes me have this entire replay of my childhood and every single situation when I felt left out and just didn't have that connected belonging feeling I was looking for. And at the same time, we know feeling left out is a part of childhood. So what do we do when our kid's left out? What do we do when our kid has other kids who are mean to them? And is there a difference between kids that are mean, feeling left out, and bullying? And do we do different things in different scenarios? This is such an important conversation, and I am so excited to have Dr.

• 1:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Cheryl Ziegler back on the podcast to explore all of these issues together. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this.

• 1:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list

• 2:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own

• 3:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 3:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So I want to talk about bullying. This is a hot topic. I get asked about it all the time. I know you do too. And there's so many different areas around it I want to explore, but maybe we could just riff a little. When you hear the word bullying, let's go like scenario, scenario. What, what kind of situations come to mind that are kind of under that umbrella? What do you hear about?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Well, when someone asks me about it, the first thing I ask is, let's figure out if this is bullying or mean kid behavior. Because that's a big difference, and I think kids overuse the word bullying too.

• 4:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  And to me, the word bullying is so serious that I want to make sure we're on the same page. So what I'm looking for is, is it repetitive? Was it one time somebody was mean to you? Are they doing this often?

• 4:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  The big thing is, is that are they doing the mean thing because they want to feel powerful over you? They want to have power over you, they want to make you feel smaller, they want to be dominant over you? And is it intentional?

• 4:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Do you know for sure that they're doing this on purpose? Or did you not get invited to the sleepover because, you know, you're not that close? And they, they didn't think of you that way? Or they only had two or three people over? So that's the first place I start is,

• 4:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  I really want to make sure we know what we're talking about.

• 5:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Because it's kind of two different paths.

• 5:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so then maybe we do this. We're going to start with a little game. I'm going to name scenarios and you're going to have incomplete information. So I know we both like nuance, but let's just play around. And give me your instinct. Like, I think this is mean kid behavior, or this is bullying.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  Yay, let's do it.

• 5:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, um, my kid comes home and just said, oh, they said I couldn't play four square with them today.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Mean.

• 5:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mean, okay. Um, someone was saying I'm a loser on the group chat.

• 5:34Speaker 01

  I'd have to ask some follow-up questions. How often? Right, I'd have to know how often. One time?

• 5:39Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  One time.

• 5:40Speaker 01

  Mean.

• 5:41Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay. Um, they don't want me to play soccer because I'm really not very good at soccer, an intense game of soccer.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Mean.

• 5:49Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm. This one kid tends to pick me out every day at recess and tell me that I have no friends.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Probably bullying or borderline on bullying. And why? Because you said every day and intentionality picks me out.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  Right? So the third aspect I would follow up on is like, why do you think you? Why you? Right? And that would be like the third piece that I'd need to know.

• 6:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Interesting. So, and I do think I, I'm hearing what you're saying and I'll have parents come and say something to me like, my kid is being bullied. And the reason I think the label matters is if the label, and I would probably say this is true of any label. If the label activates us and makes us as a parent kind of lose touch with a grounded, wise mind, that sturdy leader we all have. It's probably not that useful because whether your kid is having mean kid behavior or is being bullied, they, they probably need something from you. Right? And so I think that's really important, which is, you know, noticing what comes up for you as a parent.

• 6:58Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  When your kid tells you, I was left out on one end of the spectrum, one time, or oh, a kid is targeting me every day at recess on the other end of the spectrum. I actually think that's a really important starting point. So curious what you see talking to parents. What, we're going to get to the kid stuff, but what tends to come up for parents? When they hear or see evidence of either their kid being left out, their kid having mean kid behavior, or their kid being kind of repeatedly targeted.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  Old wounds.

• 7:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  They more.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Ah, this is, this is one of those things that it doesn't matter where you grew up, how long ago that was, whatever your experience was. Most of us have stories from our childhood that they stay with us. We never forget. One time somebody said, you know, you have chicken legs. Never forget it. 30 years later, you don't forget. Somebody said, you know, your hair is, is stupid. You don't forget it. You don't forget even the mean things, right? And then we also though have. I mean, some numbers are like one in three people reporting feeling bullied.

• 8:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  So that means you have a lot of parents walking around the world. Probably this was not addressed. It could have been physical and verbal. And they just kind of had to deal with it. If you watch movies, old movies, the kid being bullied is almost a rite of passage in childhood, especially for boys. Although interestingly today, boys and girls are equally bullied.

• 8:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  But in the past, we have, right? We have movie after movie where sort of the schoolyard, bus stop, boys getting physically beat up. And it's a rite of passage. It's kind of like get home, dust it off. Parents weren't very concerned. They said, clean up and comes it down for dinner.

• 8:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  And I think that was reflective of the times.

• 8:54Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Mm hmm.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  So then therefore it's reflective of the stories we come into parenting with.

• 9:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And, and, and one thing I want to double click on there that's really interesting is I think about parents I've worked with when they come to me around. Is my kid being bullied? My kids being really left out and some of the deeper themes we explore. And it really is so often one of the things you're describing where we do end up getting into. These kids picked on me on the bus. I wasn't, even though I was in fifth grade and the fifth grader sit in the back of the bus, the fifth graders in the back of the bus always made me sit in the front of the bus. And I'd come home and it was always like, who cares? Moving on. And one of these things I think that can happen is, and anyone listening right now, if you think back on your childhood and you think about some version of I wasn't allowed to sit in the back of the bus or these kids were mean to me.

• 9:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That pain is so real. Okay. Whether it's mean kid behavior or bullying, just for right now, that pain is so real and so intense, especially in a time of your life when peers mean so much. And if you grew up in a family that kind of poo-pooed it, or it's just like this is a rite of passage, I think something important to know.

• 10:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Is when you hear about your kid struggling with mean kid behavior, you might be triggered to react to your kid and almost kind of solve the problem so rapidly and quickly, maybe even in a more intense way than your kid felt it, in part because to some degree, we're saying to our past, like, I am also defending the fifth grader who wasn't allowed to sit in the back of the bus and nobody heard me out and nobody believed me. And I think those old wounds and triggers, where I know for me with my kids, there have been moments of, is this about my son? Is this about my daughter?

• 10:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Is this something about what happened to me in fourth grade when my friends weren't nice to me in this situation? And how much of what my kid needs am I able to see versus how much is that colored by something that almost has nothing to do with my kids?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I mean, I sit across from people who will tell the story and, and sometimes they do have that insight and they'll say, I have to tell you, I'm more fired up than ever about this particular story, you know, or this kid that continues to just harass my kid. And they'll get tears in their eyes. And I don't get tears in my eyes that often, but this one gets me too, because to see the, the adult, right, the 35 year old mom, the 40 year old dad, and I will tell you dads get to tears just as quickly and see tears in their eyes. And I'm like, I know right now in this moment, you are literally 10 years old.

• 11:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 11:48Speaker 01

  You are 10 years old and now you feel bigger, stronger, more confident and you want to come in and defend your kid. We want to protect them from that pain that we felt that was unprocessed.

• 12:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  The pain that was unprocessed and maybe was invalidated and ignored, right? And I think one of the things I see all the time is, right, there's a lot between invalidation and minimization on one end of the spectrum. And kind of rushing to fix everything on the other end of the spectrum. Of course, there's moments with peer bullying where you've got to call the school. You've got to intervene. That is definitely needed. But definitely in some of these more nuanced mean kid moments, there might be something more in the moment, that more in the middle that your kid needs. That if we're not aware of how that stuff was processed for ourselves, we might not be able to get to that middle ground because, again, we're kind of responding to what we felt we needed,

• 12:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  not to the situation our kid is describing.

• 12:48Speaker 01

  Yes. And then throw on top of it, that bullying peaks in middle school. So now you've got a 12, 13, 14 year old that is individuating from you.

• 12:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  Right? So first of all, is it safe to tell you this? What are you gonna do if I tell you this thing? Second of all, is it okay for you to get involved? Aren't I like a big boy, a big girl now? I'm supposed to do this on my own. Why do I need you? And do you even know what you're talking about? Right? Like, and so it's actually peaking at a time where the kid is like, wait, I'm actually stepping away from you? You don't even know my friends anymore. Maybe when I was in second grade, when someone was mean to me, you called their mom.

• 13:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right. You might not even know who their mom is at this point.

• 13:32Speaker 01

  You don't know who their parent is.

• 13:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So true.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Again, you don't know all their teachers. If they go, if they transition to a middle school, you don't know their, their world, really.

• 13:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  I had a mom just say to me the other day, I don't even know what the cafeteria looks like in my kid's school. Because he's a sixth grader.

• 13:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  She's never been in it. So these things are happening, peaking actually, during a time where they are separating from you and like you said, caring so much more about what their friends think. And so what do they do? Do they go to you? And then as the parent, how do you manage that? When do you take the break as a parent to say, hold on, is this about me? What's my unresolved stuff?

• 14:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 14:15Speaker 01

  And so I think when parents do take the time though to do that, they feel emotions they haven't felt in so long. They were living in there. They just didn't feel them.

• 14:23Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 14:24Speaker 01

  They bring them to that consciousness and it can be really emotionally overwhelming.

• 14:28Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 14:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list

• 15:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the "Make Your

• 16:04Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Own" cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind-down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 16:42Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, so let's look at this whole arc. First of all, there's a situation where your kid comes home and tells you, "This is what someone said to me on the bus. No one played with me. This person's repeatedly targeting me." We can go through those, but what I want to start with first is, how might you notice some of the stuff is going on in ways that aren't so obvious? Because not every kid, especially at those ages, is so verbally direct.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I think some things, I mean, it's kind of by age, but I'll try to make it like middle-ish, like tweens type of behavior, right? Because younger kids are more likely to say, "So-and-so didn't sit with me today. So-and-so said I wasn't allowed to play groundies." Like, the younger kids are more likely, and they don't know that they're reporting something. They're just telling you. But once they start to become a little bit more aware of social dynamics, you're going to look for things like, "The lunch comes back, it wasn't even touched."

• 17:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  Like, full lunch. Like, "Buddy, what's going on here? You didn't even touch your lunch today, right?" There's a lot of reasons why that happens. They are saying they have a stomach ache in the morning. They don't want to go to school.

• 17:47Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hmm, such a, and just, double-click on that. What might that be a kid's body's way of saying?

• 17:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's that fight, flight, or freeze. Like, "I, it's scary there. It feels dangerous to me there, so I want to flee from that."

• 18:03Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  "I don't want to go there." And then it manifests in your stomach or your headache.

• 18:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I know it's so easy to get into a cycle of like, "You're fine." Like, "Oh, come on. You have a stomach ache again." And it almost can feel, when we're in like the rushing mindset of like, "I've just got to get my kid out of the house and I have so much to do." It can feel like your kid is trying to trick you or play you. And I think this is so important. Feelings live in our body. And there's a lot of adults who, when they're really nervous about going to a dentist, they don't say it to their partner. "I'm feeling a little hesitant. I really am." No, they end up saying, "Oh, I had a lot of traffic. I missed it." Or they end up acting it out at work, right? Our body can act things out, so... Noticing your kids' kind of relatively chronic stomach aches before school is just

• 18:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  so powerful for parents to know that could be my kid's way of communicating their feelings. That's not them lying to me.

• 19:01Speaker 01

  Yes, and I am with you. I think it's so hard for parents that are like, they'll call and they'll be like, this is three mornings in a row now. They were fine the night before, and all of a sudden they wake up, they've got this stomach ache, conveniently five minutes before we're supposed to be heading out of the house.

• 19:17Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  So they're angry. Now they're triggered, they're activated, and like you said, like we as adults wake up with a plan and a routine, right? We do this at 7:05, we're out the door at 7:15, whatever. So I really want to emphasize, though, that when we look at bullying, as is defined by bullying, one of the top two unintended consequences are poor academic functioning, increased absenteeism.

• 19:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Uh huh.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  So when I say that, you're gonna look for your kid's grades are going down, they don't want to do their homework, they don't care anymore about studying, and they're gonna start missing more school.

• 19:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so if we think about the place of school as being a place that no longer feels safe, you think about it from that perspective, it makes sense that a kid would want to avoid engaging in that place or being at that place. And I think when you think about it that way, it's less likely to feel like an affront or like a trick. And if you think, okay, well, if there was a place I was supposed to go to every day and I actually didn't feel safe there, I would also come up with a lot of reasons to avoid it because I felt like I was just trying to protect myself, right? And I think when we see it that way, we soften, like, oh, okay, now I can enter into a different conversation with my kid.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And think about it, even to add on to what you said, I don't feel safe there, but the people that are supposed to be in charge of loving me and keeping me safe, my parents are telling me it's okay.

• 20:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I have to go there.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  And you have to go.

• 20:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That's right.

• 20:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the "Make Your Own" cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind-down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves,

• 21:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only. I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook,

• 22:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset, together as a family, before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space, and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 22:59Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  The other thing I just want to double click on because I was talking about this the other day and I think it resonated. When you're saying, "We have a plan. I gotta get out the door." I call that efficiency mode. Like when I'm in efficiency mode, which by the way can be rewarded in a lot of places in life. Anything my kid does that's kind of off-script, I just see as inefficient, right? And so, any of us can miss signals in that mode. When you shift a little to like relationship or connection mode, your kid saying, "My stomach hurts every morning," becomes kind of a way you can pique your curiosity. Like, "Oh, I wonder what that's trying to tell me. Oh, I wonder what's going on. Can I be curious about that?" And then we're probably more likely to hear a longer story.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, as you were saying that, I was like getting into my mind around, who are the parents that actually do tolerate that pretty well? And you know who it is? It's the parents who go, "I remember going through a stage. I had a stomach ache every day. I remember going through a stage where I didn't go to school for like a whole week."

• 24:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Important.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  If you can relate to it as a parent, you see it more easily sometimes, or a lot of times, in your kids. Not all the time. But when it comes to this particular issue, there's something like a bell goes off, and maybe not day one, but day three, day four, where you go, "Oh." Or if you talk to your parents, if they're still alive and you still have a relationship and you say, "Oh, my gosh, you know, Ava, she's had a headache or a stomach ache every morning." And sometimes it's a grandparent who says, "Oh, honey, you went through that too. Do you remember those girls? They were being so mean to you at the bus stop and eventually we figured it out." And then the bell goes off and then sometimes parents feel guilty. And we don't need to feel guilty. It's data. It's information.

• 24:44Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  And it helps us to drop in. So if you have that experience, you're probably likely to resonate. If you don't have that experience, you're right, in efficiency mode, how do we tolerate when your kid's like, "I can't do it?" And they might just flop on the ground.

• 25:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 25:01Speaker 01

  Like, they're not going.

• 25:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes. And I want to actually give anyone listening a moment to just pause, like really thinking back decades ago to days that you didn't want to go to school. To a lunchroom you didn't want to go to because maybe you didn't have a place to sit or the group you had to walk by tend to kind of make some snarky comment. It's so easy, I think, as we get older to think like that wasn't that big of a deal. When you're in that moment, it is the biggest deal. And I actually think our own memories convince us of that. And so just allowing yourself to time travel and remember the stomach aches you had before school or the lunchroom you avoided or the recess where your heart was racing and you were kind of counting down the minutes.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  The bus stop and the bus ride.

• 25:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Bus stop and the bus ride. Yeah. Um, you know, our kids world might be much more digitized than ours was, but the feelings are kind of remarkably consistent, right?

• 26:03Speaker 01

  And like what we just said, like those places are still places today. And there's also online.

• 26:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes, right. There's just more of them.

• 26:12Speaker 01

  There's more of them and sometimes the online part is the part that you're like, I can't escape it. But mom, you don't understand. They're saying these terrible things in this group chat about me. They passed around this picture on Snapchat of me or they put together, you know, some AI deep fake of me and it's going around and I can't escape it at school and I can't escape it at home.

• 26:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, it makes me think that experiences of bullying or mean kid behavior, either way, um, none of it is new in 2025, but the way it has a megaphone now is completely new. That's what it is. It's like your worst, most embarrassing, ashamed, alone moment that did happen when you quote, weren't allowed to sit in the back of the bus now is passed around online for a million people even outside of your school to see. I mean, the megaphone impact of that, it would be like somebody getting on a speaker when you were left out and telling the whole world that this was happening to on the bus. I mean, it's, it really is so visceral when you think about it that way.

• 27:19Speaker 01

  It really is. And it's, it's the fastest growing place where this kind of bullying and, you know, intimidation is kind of happening. And what happens is these kids used to be able to come home and like, again, for some reason I picture, yeah, like I picture this old movie, right? Where the kid's running away from the bullies and then he gets in the house and he slams the door and it's like, ah. And maybe mom or dad who were in the living room or kitchen not knowing was even somewhat of a relief. Like, "Oh, hi, honey. How was your day?" "Oh, it was good." And they just, and they could turn it off or press pause for like 12 hours. And now they absolutely can't.

• 28:01Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So interesting, where even if you had a parent who knew about it and invalidated it, it wasn't happening live at the same time digitally. It was kind of over. The invalidation definitely didn't feel good. But it wasn't happening in parallel with the activation of your body in real time. It's like this forever bullying, being left out script that's happening now.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  That's right. And I wanna like, I wanna bring this back. Let's, let's, we'll take it to the mean kid part. Okay. So now you've got some mean kid stuff and online. And this is what I want parents to understand. I remember it was a couple of years ago, I did this, I did a segment called like, "Group chats are the new like, mean kid circles to hang out in." So I want them to understand that. Let's say there's a night and nobody's saying anything mean to you, or nothing's happening on a group chat. What that actually means is you've probably been kicked out. And so I want parents to understand that being in there is so repetitively demoralizing, you know,

• 29:08Speaker 01

  it's just, it's an awful feeling. But being kicked out is almost as bad or worse. Because now I don't even know what is being said and what's being planned. And now I'm out. Yeah. And I don't know who my friends, I don't know who to trust.

• 29:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Is it like not, no longer having a seat at the table, at the lunch table?

• 29:25Speaker 01

  Right. Just like you, someone takes your butt and slides you right off that little bench that you used to sit on. And it's like, there's no room for you.

• 29:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  And you have to be way across the room. And you don't know what we're talking about. And we're laughing and we're whispering. We're doing all sorts of things.

• 29:43Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I think that's right. Where if you think about it as a lunch table, you might not even love being at the table. You might not find the conversation terribly enticing. But I think we all know what happens when you're in a corner looking at the lunch table you were previously invited to sit at and watching them all talk to each other. And just again, how painful and real that is. But now it's digital and you're just completely alone in the dark.

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Completely with what it feels like no one in your corner. Right. And to your point, the seat at the table, right? The seat at the metaphorical or literal table. It's like for a kid who's like, let's say in sixth grade, they're 12 years old, well, at least I got a seat. And to the outside world, like I've got 10 kids I'm sitting with and I'm eating, even if I don't say one word, but I'm monitoring what they're talking about. I know that they're being mean or they're not being mean or they're talking about what they did over the weekend. And so you're at least one toe in, which for lots of kids feels so much better than you're out. You're out.

• 30:48Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves.

• 31:33Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply, offer valid on select products only. I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean.

• 32:16Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host.

• 32:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So a couple of things this makes me think about practically. I think it's so easy to hear this and we all think as parents like, how do I protect my kids from these situations? Right? And there's definitely things we can do over time that just help our kids build confidence, which in some ways is the most important thing to withstand tricky peer moments. But I think one of the things also that's realistic, I'm curious if you agree, is we can't fully protect our kids from experience. Like they're gonna happen. It's like turbulence on a plane. Like you're never gonna have a turbulence free kind of flight.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  Right, right. And I think some, I think this is where I see a lot of deviation in how parents view it. Some are like, hey, you know, this is part of growing up. I went through it, they're gonna go through it. And so there's that. And then there's some who are like, no, I need to protect my kid. They're sensitive or they can't handle this the way maybe other kids can. And, and like you said, then there's gray in the middle. So we also are parenting a generation of kids pretty differently around this issue. And I think that is problematic because everything from the definition to when to get school involved, when not to, when to be involved, it really varies so much.

• 34:10Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I guess my perspective on that is very similar to other extremes I see. I personally don't find either extreme helpful. Look, my kid's gonna go through this. I went through this. I'm fine. I don't think that's helpful because the truth is, we probably needed something different than what we received in those moments. And again, because these moments have a megaphone now and the way they didn't, our kids have more needs. But the other end of the spectrum also doesn't feel that helpful. We can't fully protect our kids from these things. The best thing I think we can do is something in the middle, which is how can I establish myself as a parent who's gonna know about these things, who can be supportive to my kid, who can really be a coach and a teammate to help my kid through these situations?

• 34:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And so I guess one of my questions to you is, are there things we do proactively as a parent, forget just in the moment of mean kid behavior or bullying, that help us establish ourselves as the kind of parent our kid would come to in these situations?

• 35:09Speaker 01

  I do. I think, I think one of the things that a parent can do proactively is to think to yourself, take 10 minutes out of your day, what was middle school like for me? Who were my friends? Who was nice to me? Who was mean to me? Who was a special person in my life? How did I deal with things? Because, and I want you to, and I'm specifically saying think of middle school because some of these things we're talking about are starting in third grade. So no matter how old your kid is, I still want you, because probably, I know when I think back to third grade, I can think of times I'm sure my feelings were hurt, but the big stuff wasn't happening then. So I think, think back to that moment.

• 35:53Speaker 01

  And I've, and I've done this myself, which has been a really interesting process. And what was I going through? What was I thinking and feeling? What were my insecurities? All those things. And then approach your kid, right, in a way that just says, you know, I'm just, I'm here for you. There's some things that haven't changed probably since, you know, I was kind of your age. And yes, I know, we say, oh, kids don't want to hear that, but they actually do.

• 36:19Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  They want to know that we can relate.

• 36:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  They do. And it just, it's making me think that... Saying to your kids, the starter sentence, "I have to tell you about something I was randomly thinking about. I want to tell you something that just came up in my mind, just qualified. It's so random, so your kid knows I'm just pontificating. I want to tell you something I was randomly thinking about. There were so many times when I was probably right about your age that I felt so left out. And those moments were so painful and so hard. And just putting out there, if anything like that has ever happened to you or does, you could totally talk to me about it. And just, I want to hear your response, but the first thing I want to say to qualify

• 37:05Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  is if I say something like that to my own kid, I just want everyone to know, my kid will never say back to me in the moment, "I really needed to hear that. Thank you for laying the foundation for open communication." No, my kid will roll their eyes and be like, "You're so weird and can you just get me pretzels? This conversation is over." Cringe. Okay, but we take our kids' reactions so literally. I'm never put off by eye-rolling. I don't know if I've said this to you, but I think eye-rolling is a kid's version of compromise, that rolling their eyes is a way of saying, "I actually think what you're saying is important, but on my own person, I'm not going to fully take it in. I have to roll my eyes to kind of push it out. And when you turn it, turn around, I'm gonna take it in,

• 37:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  but I'm not going to let you know." So every time I get an eye-roll, it's funny. Parents are like, "Oh, how do you put up with that?" I'm like, "No, that is like a huge win in my book."

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I agree with you. And eye-roll is like a concession.

• 38:02Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Hundred percent, a compromise.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  All right, so I'll hear what you have to say. I'm not going to tell you that it's anything meaningful to me, but it is.

• 38:09Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  But do you think that would be helpful, just put out there every once in a while?

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Totally. When you said that, it reminds me of like, there's a term that we learn when we're learning how to counsel people, right? Therapeutic gossip, remember that? So it's like, that's how I think of it. I think of like myself, I can picture myself in the kitchen and I just say things out loud. Therapeutic gossip means you're like talking out loud. Like, "Oh, my gosh, I remember," or "This memory just popped up for me."

• 38:32Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So good. Pick it up if you want. Leave it if you, if you want, and the chances are our kid's gonna pick it up. Okay, a couple of other questions, because look, mean kid behavior, bullying, let's just go over kind of each situation. I want to get some feedback from you. So my kid comes home, and they say, "Nobody played with me at recess, and I tried to play with these kids at soccer, but they said this is a serious soccer game. You're not good." What do you feel like a kid needs from a parent in that moment?

• 38:59Speaker 01

  I mean, right then and there, just dropping into empathy, validation, like, "Oh buddy, I'm so sorry that happened. That must be really, really hard, sitting there at recess, and they're not letting you play. Sorry that happened." And then pause.

• 39:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I want to, I want to emphasize that, because it's similar to something I would say, like, there's a less is more, and I think as a parent, we think it's not enough. Like, do I have to, do I have, okay, I'm asking you, do I have to call the school? What do you think?

• 39:29Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:29Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  No?

• 39:30Speaker 01

  No.

• 39:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Right? Do I have to call all the parents?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 39:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Of the kids?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 39:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  And I think it's really helpful for people to hear that, because we're all kind of just looking to feel like good parents, and if we feel like we're not reaching the standard, we're all gonna do more. Right? But it is kind of, if I went home to my husband, and I was like, "Oh, I had this really bad day, and this meeting was bad, and honestly, these other people presented their work, and it was really good, and mine just wasn't," and if my husband's first reaction was like, "Well, I'm gonna call those people," and I'd be like, "Whoa, like, where are you going? I'm just trying to share my experience with you."

• 40:05Speaker 01

  And it takes you out of your experience, too. Like, even the way you were just role-playing it, you're down, like, "Oh," and then her presentation's better, and the second someone comes in to fix it, now you're gonna start defending. Now all of a sudden, you're gonna start defending, "No, no, no, I mean, it's not that big of a deal."

• 40:18Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Exactly.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I'm just telling you.

• 40:20Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Exactly.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Right? So never go there, even if inside, though, you're like, again, everything lives in our bodies, so you can feel your heart palpitating.

• 40:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 40:28Speaker 01

  I feel, I feel my heart, like, breaking, sort of. Sometimes my kids tell me things, and it's acting. I act, "Um, engaged, present."

• 40:38Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I stop.

• 40:38Speaker 01

  What I'm doing, right? I am gonna reflect back what they said, I'm gonna validate it, and then, like, in the case of, like, okay, so tomorrow, there's gonna be recess again. Whether it's right now, right, because I said, "Pause. You have to pause." I always tell parents, we over-talk when we're nervous, right? So just pause, see what they say. And then, at some point, whether it's then, or two hours, or at bedtime, you say, So you have recess again tomorrow, huh? Yeah, I wonder if you've thought about like, what are you gonna do?

• 41:08Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah, love that.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  Right? So I'm getting to a plan, but I'm gonna ask them. Have you thought of a plan? Is there someone else you could... But I'm not gonna come in with 50 questions, and I'm not gonna come in with my game plan.

• 41:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  I bet you've been thinking about it, or I wonder if you've been thinking about what you'll do tomorrow.

• 41:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I love that, and I love just the concrete guidance. Separate those conversations a little bit, right? Like, drop down. I always picture my kid when they're telling me something hard. I try to picture them saying to me, "I'm just looking for you to understand this." They never say that, to be clear, okay? They just tell me the story. But if you imagine your kid telling you a story, and then as soon as they're done, saying, "I just want you to understand," and then you respond, I know for me, it helps me embody the idea of less is more. And then wait, and then maybe at night, hey, I wonder if you've thought about it, a little more strategic. But I know for me, as an adult too, someone separating those two things makes me feel so much more secure.

• 42:12Speaker 01

  Absolutely, and then when we get to be adults, and we get to practice this a ton, I know for me, sometimes I'll say to either my husband or a friend, I'll say, "I'm gonna tell you something that happened today. I don't want you to give me advice. I don't want you to jump in and start defending me, that's especially for my husband. I just wanna tell you this."

• 42:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 42:32Speaker 01

  "And I just want you to sit here with me with it."

• 42:34Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yeah.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  Right? That's pretty advanced, though.

• 42:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Totally.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  And so I'm even saying that right now, just so that if you're listening and you're a husband, you're a partner, you're a spouse, and you're like, "Oh yeah, that's me, I'm the fixer," or "I'm the mama bear."

• 42:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Right? There's times where being the mama bear or the fixer is just not welcome.

• 42:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  A hundred percent.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Or needed.

• 42:53Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  So now quickly, let's just cover the other one fast. My kid comes and says, you know, I've... Like, this kid's always picking me at recess. You know, it's kind of repeated, it's targeted. What do you feel like a kid needs in that situation, at least as a start?

• 43:06Speaker 01

  So I think you still start off with that validation and all and you know, that's space and time and empathy for sure. And you say, um, this is a safety issue and I love you enough to be brave to know that we have to do something about it.

• 43:21Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 43:22Speaker 01

  And then pause because they're going to say, no.

• 43:25Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 43:25Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no, don't call the school. You're only going to make it worse. And honestly, a lot of times the way adults handle it can make it worse. So you say, so if you're listening right now and you're like, well, how do I know if it's going to make it worse or not? Even if they're just giving you that look, you can say, I, I know that you're probably really scared right now. You're wondering how this is gonna affect things at school. What's gonna happen to the group? I get it. Let's do this together.

• 43:50Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  I promise I won't make a call or I won't send an email or anything without talking about it with you. We're gonna do this together, but this is now a safety issue and it's my job to keep you safe.

• 44:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I love that. And then you could throw a menu of options. We could do, let's start with something. Let's see how that goes. We'll check in. We're on the same team. There's going to be action because it's a safety issue, but that doesn't mean it has to be done totally with my kid on the side. We could include them in it.

• 44:15Speaker 01

  I think so. I think, I always like to say, what they know is a lot less scary than what they don't know.

• 44:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Oh my God, I just told you that I'm like being bullied at school and now I think you're gonna go crazy. You're gonna show up at school tomorrow.

• 44:27Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yep.

• 44:28Speaker 01

  That's really scary for a kid.

• 44:30Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Yes.

• 44:31Speaker 01

  Really scary.

• 44:37Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I'm ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list

• 45:22Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories

• 46:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  with the "Make Your Own" cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind-down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 46:45Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  All right, your kid comes home and says they were left out at recess. Let's role-play how a conversation could go between you and your kid. I'm gonna be the kid, and Dr. Cheryl's gonna be the parent. I had the worst recess today. Oh no, what happened? Well, I wanted to play basketball. I went up to the group playing basketball. They were just like, "You can't play with us, you're short." Oh, I'm so sorry, buddy. That must have been so hurtful. It was.

• 47:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Okay, pause. I know what you might be thinking. Okay, and then what? Do I call the parent? Do I come up with a solution for my kid if they want to play basketball tomorrow? Actually, no. Just pause at this moment. Your kid might... Ask for a snack or walk away. The most important thing to do is what you've already done. Just essentially say you're able to hear it. You validate this was hard. And from there, just let your kid take the lead. They might not need anything more than that. Hope that was helpful. And honestly, whenever anyone's learning kind of a new language, seeing it acted out in a role play is something that always helps things crystallize.

• 47:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  If you're a Good Inside member, please check out the other two role plays. I'm going to drop right into membership. One is about when your kid is hanging out with a kid that is a bad influence, but they just won't stop hanging out with them. And the second one is what happens when you get a call that your kid was mean to another kid and how to handle that conversation. All right, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground and a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside. I'll see you soon.

• 48:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know that feeling when your brain is at full capacity, right? I mean, you have a reminder from the dentist in your email, a birthday party invitation on the fridge, and your kid just texted you about a soccer game they forgot to mention until that moment? And you just cannot remember one more thing. That's where Skylight Calendar comes in. It's an all-in-one digital smart calendar that syncs with Google, Apple, and Outlook to help your whole family see the days and weeks ahead. And I really love the Tasks feature, which is designed to help your kid build routines around things like homework and chores. And when your kid can do those things independently, it's a huge win for everyone in the family. Skylight Calendar is so much more than just a calendar. It's something you can add to your routine

• 49:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  to help your family work together. And right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com/becky. That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T.com/Becky for $30 off your 15-inch calendar. myskylight.com/becky. You know, parents carry a lot. In fact, data show that most parents spend every waking hour caring for someone else. So if you feel exhausted and stretched thin, you're not alone, and that makes sense. And look, I also know from experience what a relief it is to find caregiving support. Finding a babysitter you trust and your kids will have

• 50:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  fun with, that makes it so much easier to go back to work, or travel, or yeah, even go on one date with your partner. Care.com makes it easier to find trusted, background-checked caregivers with search and hiring tools you won't find on social media. Whether you need full-time help, or just part-time help with morning drop-off, or after-school care, Care.com can help you find nannies, sitters, and daycares. And you can find the expertise that matters to you. Think homework help, CPR training, or experience with multiple kids. And if you're considering daycare, you can search, compare, and request tours, and could even get a discount on daycare tuition as a Care.com member. If you need more support, Care.com

• 51:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  can help. For a limited time, you can use the code BECKY35 to save 35% on a Care.com membership. When it's not you, it's Care.com.