Can We Really “Have it All”?

Modern parents are stretched to the limit: careers, childcare, and expectations keep growing, but the day is still only 24 hours long. In this episode, Dr. Becky and economist Dr. Corinne Low unpack the data behind parental exhaustion and share realistic ways to reclaim your time, reduce resentment, and feel more present in daily life.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  After my first baby was born, I treated my own recovery like a complete afterthought. If the baby needed something, I showed up immediately. If I needed something, well, it would wait. But research shows that when parents have the support they need, they're better able to care for their children. Taking care of yourself isn't separate from parenting. It's a huge part of parenting. That's why I love Frida's mission to prepare women for the realities of pregnancy, postpartum, recovery, and feeding. Frida creates solutions for the moments that often catch moms off guard. The Postpartum Essentials Kit and Breastfeeding Survival Kit help women feel more prepared for those early weeks of motherhood. Be motherhood prepared and shop Frida at Amazon, Target, and Walmart today.

• 0:43Speaker 01

  If you're a mom, you have probably felt pressure to have it all. What does that mean? I'm a present parent. I have a supportive and connective relationship. I cook the healthy meals. I show up at every drop off and maybe also I'm working outside of the home and my picture of my family on the weekend looks perfect on Instagram. Okay, let's first myth bust. This human does not exist. And if you think I'm that human, you are sorely mistaken. Today, I'm talking to Dr. Corinne Low. She's incredible. She's an Associate Professor of Economics at Wharton, but this is not a financially related episode. She actually has developed a framework

• 1:26Speaker 01

  for thinking about how women think through decisions and how we spend our time. And she focuses her studies on women and moms who think about this concept of having it all and helping us look at it differently so we can feel a little more free and a little more grounded in our values. Trust me, this is an episode that you are going to love and that I think every parent needs. You're going to end up saying, oh, my goodness, yes, so many times. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be back right after this.

• 2:12Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the "Make Your Own" cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind-down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves,

• 2:57Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only. I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook,

• 3:40Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset, together as a family, before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space, and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Hi Corinne.

• 4:21Speaker 02

  Hi, I am so happy to be here.

• 4:23Speaker 01

  I am so excited for you to be here about a topic like I just have to say when I saw the title of your book, and I'm just gonna say it, "Having It All: What Data Tells Us About Women's Lives and Getting the Most Out of Yours." I saw "Having It All" and I was like, "This woman is gonna tell me how to have it all." Amazing, someone has finally cracked the code and there's data involved. So, I feel like that's not exactly what's inside. So, tell us a little bit about, about the book, but really about that phrase, "Having It All," how so many women, so many moms, want to have it all. Does that just mean you're doing it all? I don't know.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that's, I think, like, the cover of the book is so important to tell that story because we really wanted to show that we were being a little tongue-in-cheek with that phrase, "Having It All," because it's like, having it all and there's all this stuff, but also dinner is on fire and your heel is broken and your coffee is spilled and your baby is crying, by the way. So, we were like, you know, it's that "Having It All" moment. For me, it's been when I've been pumping in planes, trains, and automobiles on book tour, and then I didn't seal one of my breastmilk bags and it leaked in my backpack and now my laptop doesn't work, the screen is blacked out. So, that's the like, "Having It All," right? Because it is, it's a lot, it's all too much, and it's actually harder than ever, right now, for a lot of reasons that I actually didn't know until I started looking at the

• 5:47Speaker 02

  data, and I really wanted to share that with people.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  So, there's two different things. I want to say one thing, but then maybe go in a different direction. That one image of Corinne, who just had a baby, who's a Wharton professor, who wrote this amazing book with all these accolades on book tour, like headline picture on Instagram to someone. Who sees that is this woman has cracked the code. She has it all. And what's just so interesting is the micro moment underneath. I'm pumping. I spill the milk onto my computer. I can't even get through, you know, this moment. And everything is kind of cracking underneath. And there's, there's such a big delta there.

• 6:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  So I just want to say thank you for naming that. I think sometimes people, you know, say to me, oh, my goodness, you know, your career and you're on book tour. And yeah, like there's a fire somewhere or there's a very neglected part of my life. Whenever I'm traveling for work, which I love, like I come back and my friends are like, hello. Like you have not been or I'm like, you're right. I haven't been around and maybe I even missed one of their birthday dinners or, you know, I have to spend extra time with my kids. And then that's not the same thing as spending time with your partner. I mean, that's just, it's so much. So you are coming at this from the perspective of an economist. So tell me a little bit about that.

• 7:11Speaker 02

  So I study these issues because economics, I know people hear economics and they're like, finance is a stock. Are you going to give me stock tips? I'm like, absolutely, I absolutely am not. Um, I study the economics of being a woman and economics at its core. It's the science of maximizing subject to constraints. And if there's anybody who knows about maximizing subject to constraints, it's moms, right?

• 7:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 7:33Speaker 02

  And so part of what the book tries to look at is to say, look, when you're trying to feel like you're having it all or trying to, you know, jam all of these things into your life, you've got to figure out what are you actually maximizing? Like, what is your goal here?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Because as you said, we could pursue anything because there's always somebody who looks like they're having it all at any given moment. And we tend to just see that image. We see the person with a successful career and we're like, wait, why don't I have that? We see the person whose house is like neat and tidy and well decorated. We see the person who always cooks the most delicious, healthy meals. We see the person who, you know, whose kids are always like well dressed and on time every single day. And, you know, everybody is smiling, right? And we just are trying to like, take all of those and fit them all into a basket that's not big enough. And that is our time.

• 8:31Speaker 01

  So interesting, you know, one of the things that my husband has said to me, it's um, not the most helpful way my brain works, is I'll, I'll see people with certain things in their life. And I'll be like, I want, I want that. And he's like, you have this thing where you imagine, like, all the good things in your life, transfer over.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  And then you add that other thing. Like, everything is additive. And I'm just, I feel like that's kind of along the lines of what you're saying.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  No, that's exactly right, because there's trade offs. That's why we talk about constraints. There are trade offs, and especially with time. And so I'll just get into the data really quickly, that the reason our time doesn't feel like it's adding up, is because for women who have careers, those careers are more demanding than ever, right? More and more workers are working greater than 50 hour weeks, 60 hour weeks, right? But, men have not changed their roles at home. So, as women have stepped into the labor force, men's time at home has actually stayed relatively constant. And I want to talk about that, because I know dads are listening too. And I really want to talk about this, because no one ever asks men about having it all. But, a lot of people don't know that men do the same amount of housework as they did in the 1970s. The same

• 9:44Speaker 02

  hours of housework.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Huh. Meaning laundry, making sure the dishwasher is starting.

• 9:48Speaker 02

  Cleaning, um, home management.

• 9:51Speaker 01

  Does that mean childcare, putting your kid to bed?

• 9:53Speaker 02

  It doesn't mean childcare.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 9:54Speaker 02

  So then the third fact of why all of this stuff isn't fitting in our time basket.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Is it the kids?

• 9:59Speaker 02

  Is that

• 10:00Speaker 01

  It's the kids' fault.

• 10:00Speaker 02

  Time. It's not their fault. But, it's that time with our kids skyrocketed, starting in the 1990s. So, moms today spend twice as much time with our children as moms a generation ago.

• 10:15Speaker 01

  I'm just, I'm trying to add up all the hours, that you would just, the work is more.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  The help is more.

• 10:20Speaker 02

  And that's why we're sleeping less and we have less leisure time.

• 10:22Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  So, and then the thing is with dads, by the way, dads are like, well, we're, we're spending more time too, right? And they are, actually. That's the, so, housework hasn't changed. Dad's time in childcare has increased, because we all spend so much more time with our kids, and I'll get into some of the reasons why. Um, but, because women's time has increased more, the gender gap in the household has actually gotten larger, not smaller.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  So if you go back to the 1970s, there was a smaller gender gap in childcare than there is today, even though dads are doing more, but moms are doing so much more, more.

• 10:56Speaker 01

  So I'm just, I just want to digest that because, look, I think the dads who are listening, this is not about it's all your fault. And of course, there's differences. Like, you might be listening and thinking, that's not me. And you're right. But we're talking about these general patterns. So it's so helpful not to personalize about that. These are just general patterns, not any specific family. If you're a woman who works outside the home, work is demanding more of your time. I think a lot of that is also the slack never stops, the emails never stop, right? Things like that. So that time is going up. The average then, woman who's married to a man doesn't have more help with the laundry or the household tasks. And we're spending twice as much time with our children.

• 11:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  And so this whole idea of having it all, all I'm thinking about is, I don't even know how we get to 24 hours in a day. It sounds like a 30 hour day.

• 11:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, what it all is, has changed. And that's why people who are listening are like, oh, I thought it was just me. And I thought it was just me. Like, I write this from a place of, like, it was me search, right? The research I did in this book. It was trying to understand my life. Because I was exhausted all of the time. And I felt like I was falling behind my male colleagues at work. And I didn't feel like I had the space or time to be the type of mom I wanted to be. And I was like, what is wrong with me? Right? And then when I looked at the data, I was like, oh, well, my male colleagues at work aren't facing quite the same time constraint, because they've got one of me at home, kind of managing the invisible labor, right? And kind of keeping the household

• 12:30Speaker 02

  running. And in terms of the parenting, the type of parent I wanted to be, was a type of parent that is much more intensively time available to my child than my own mom or my own childhood, right? Every parent listening knows the bedtime routine. I love bedtime. The like, I've come to love it. The processing highs and lows, you're reading stories. Like, I love, my older son is eight, and so I can feel it slipping away. And that's why, like, I used to resent it. Like, oh, God, I still have to lie here. He won't let me leave, kind of thing. And now I'm like, the fact that he wants to like cuddle and tell me a story, I like, I'm holding on to it. So, but when I grew up in the 1980s, my bedtime routine was go to bed.

• 13:16Speaker 02

  Like what we do with our kids has literally changed.

• 13:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:21Speaker 02

  Parents in the eighties were not holding their babies. They were not doing extended breastfeeding and pumping when they go back to work. They were not sitting on the floor doing enriching activities with their toddlers. They were not sitting at the kitchen table doing homework with their grade schoolers, and they weren't driving to travel soccer on weekends.

• 13:35Speaker 01

  And by the way, to the four practices during the week.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  Like literally four practices, two tournaments, right? And one extra, you know, game on Sunday. I'm thinking about all this, and I'm just thinking about how many people listening, really, there is a deep breath of, I'm not the only one. Like, this is very real, and I'm not failing. This isn't my fault. It's not like I'm someone who doesn't have my stuff together.

• 14:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly.

• 14:00Speaker 01

  I am trying to fit into a 24-hour day, things that are truly more than 24 hours. Like, the math doesn't math.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  We can't change the number of hours in a day, right? Um, and so I'm curious, in your research then, what's the alternative?

• 14:18Speaker 02

  So that's where we go back to what we started with, which is really figuring out what you're maximizing, what your goal is, what's most important to you. And then making some hard choices about how to invest your time, the same way we're careful about investing money. Facing this kind of impossible constellation of time constraints, we have to make choices. We have to say no. We have to be strategic in investing our time and enlist our partners to get more support. And so the book has a bunch of strategies for how, not just women, but kind of all parents can do this, how we can kind of get back some of our time and get rid of some of the guilt that sometimes comes along with that.

• 15:07Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sound, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodot, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves,

• 15:52Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only. I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home

• 16:36Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset, together as a family, before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space, and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at airbnb.com/host.

• 17:15Speaker 01

  So let's keep going on that, because, you know, I actually used to be someone, and what I used to say is, "I hate trade-offs," right? And I kind of would say, "I hate trade-offs," you know, because I want to have it all. And then someone said something to me about how they described trade-offs that really stuck with me. And I think, I'm thinking about it now because I think it's really in line with what you're talking about. They said, "I love trade-offs." And I was like, "What? Why?" And they were like, "Trade-offs clarify what my values are." And it's always really helpful to know what my values are. And I thought about trade offs that way. It gave me like a new, a new perspective.

• 17:54Speaker 02

  Bingo. Well, I think like your friend was thinking like an economist because that's exactly right. Like we, we think about what you're maximizing as something called your utility function. Okay. So I'm going to go into.

• 18:05Speaker 01

  I love this. Give me the class. I'm in your Wharton class right now. I love it.

• 18:08Speaker 02

  Exactly. You're in my intro MBA class. So what is a utility function? It's like your individual profit function because when we think about firms, they're maximizing profit and they're maximizing profit subject to the constraints of how much they have to pay people, how much their inputs cost, who's going to buy their stuff, right? Well, individuals are maximizing utility, but the difference between utility and profit is that any accountant could look at a firm's profit and agree about the same. Say like, look, this is how much profit they made, but nobody could actually say how much utility you're getting from something because nobody from the outside knows what your values are. It's individual. It's personal. Utility is the sum total of the joy, fulfillment, meaning and contentment

• 18:53Speaker 02

  that you can fit into a lifetime. And the sources of those things and how much weight you place on each of them is only known to you.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  So, so beautiful what you're saying. And what it makes me think about is something I hear from people all the time, especially women. I think there's a lot of reasons for this.

• 19:18Speaker 01

  But I don't actually really know what I want. I don't really know what I value. And I think this is so core to so much of what we're really talking about. It's almost easier to be like, well, that person works this job and seems to like that. So maybe that's what I want. Wait, this person spends these days with her kids at soccer. And actually, maybe that's what I want. And sometimes we have to try things on to know. I love that. But at the core, there is no barometer. There is no blood test for you are making decisions that are in line with your values. Good job. It's something that we have to kind of practice figuring out and getting to the core of ourself.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  I think you're so right, and I think another thing that we tend to do is just mistake what other people want and caring for them and helping them get what they want for what we want. And that can be part of how we end up so exhausted, because if we don't know what we value, it's just like, what makes my kids happy? What makes my friends happy? What makes my boss happy? And we just run ourselves ragged chasing their utility functions.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  Oh, and then we get rageful and resentful and sick.

• 20:25Speaker 02

  Yes, and sick, absolutely. So here is the exercise I'm going to tell you, and it feels a little wistful to do it, but it's worth it, okay? The exercise is really close your eyes and picture, what would your life look like if you were a mega billionaire, you were independently wealthy, money were no object, okay? So what would your life look like? How would you spend your time? What would your house look like? What would your days feel like? Okay, what would your relationships feel like?

• 20:58Speaker 02

  That's what you value. That's unconstrained maximization. All of that stuff that you pictured is what you are maximizing, subject to the constraints, the reality. And the reality is, okay, if some of the things you pictured are things that you buy with money, well, that's why you have a job, because your job turns your time into money, right? But when I tell people to picture that, a lot of the women who will say, "Oh, I love my job. It's so important to me. It's so fulfilling." In that picture where they are unconstrained, they might be doing that job for like 10 hours a week or 15 hours a week, but they're not doing it for 60 hours a week. They're not doing it for 70 hours a week, right?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  A lot of times what people picture is time with their loved ones, right? Time with their kids, time to be fully present, time with their friends and their partner. And if we put all of our time into the money machine, into our careers, it takes away from the time we can spend on those other things. So... If you can get in touch with, okay, this is what I value, this is what I'm pursuing, then you can figure out how to invest your time to say, okay, yes, some of what I valued, some of what I pictured was stuff that I need to buy. I want to take a nice vacation, right? I want to not worry about being able to fix the car, right? And for those things, I have to turn my time into money.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  But because I value all these other things I do with my time, I have to figure out how to turn my time into money as efficiently as possible. And we've almost been brainwashed to view our careers as like the end in themselves, like that's the purpose of your life? And I feel like that's kind of the lean in era. It was like, this is what you're maximizing. You're maximizing your salary, you're maximizing prestige, you're maximizing accolades, right? But when you actually picture what you value, those things do not get you everything that you value, right? Because some of the things that you value, you need time for.

• 22:57Speaker 01

  It's so interesting. And look, there's realities we all live with. I imagine someone thinking, okay, like the life I have now, which I do like, or the school I send my kids to, the neighborhood, it requires me working a 50-hour a week job. But still, I think the exercise isn't to imagine that you have an unconstrained life. Like, no one really has that. Like, we don't have that. None of our listeners, I think, really have that, okay? But the exercise clarifies what you value, which might give you more direction. Let's just say you're thinking, I have to have this job of working this many hours a week. Well, in the other hours, it might just clarify like how you really want to spend that time, what really, really matters. And a little bit on the margin, do I need to be on Slack right now? Can I put my computer away, my phone away?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Can I be fully present for 20 minutes for dinner instead of distracted for 40 minutes for dinner? Whatever it is, right? Can I, I always think about my calendar as my value system. Anybody who knows me knows I take my calendar very seriously, because I do what my calendar tells me. But I have to have a lot of agency in that. So as someone who's now working and feeling very lit up by that, I do want to still see my friends, okay? If I don't put in a lunch or a dinner with my friends weeks in advance, my calendar will fill up. And so I have to do that. Or my son's, you know, sports game in the calendar. And so now when someone says, oh, can you meet 3:30 on Thursday? I'm like, oh, I can. I can do this time instead because it's, my calendar is kind of...

• 24:24Speaker 01

  A force function for making me represent what I really care about.

• 24:27Speaker 02

  Well, you have figured out a physical manifestation of the idea of investing your time in what you value. Right. Is that by blocking it out in your calendar, you are saying, I'm investing this much time. And I'm not letting some other thing eat that time up, right?

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Exactly it. Yes. And the other thing about the calendar that I just have to say to you and to everyone else is even though I say I do what my calendar tells me, I'm the boss of my calendar. So like often, you know, someone say, hey, can you come out to dinner this night? And I look at my calendar two Wednesdays from now, and I just want to be very concrete. And I'm like, oh, I'm free on Wednesday night. Doesn't mean I'm going to say yes. I then zoom out and I look at my week. I know for me, I'm just saying, and this is not right. I don't think this is some parenting gold. It's just my, what I've realized for my values. I at most go out one week night and not a Saturday night. Generally, I always go out on a Saturday night, see some friends, me and my husband, one week night. And so if I have something on a Thursday and a Saturday.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  My Wednesday might say free.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Right.

• 25:25Speaker 01

  But I are suppo no. What, obviously, exceptions, right?

• 25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  And so I think that's so mind blowing for a lot of people that your calendar might say free.

• 25:35Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  And you still say no, or alternatively, I put something on the calendar. That's not my kid's soccer practice or my meeting at work. That's walk around the block for half an hour and I protect that meeting with myself. The same way I would protect our podcast time today.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, absolutely. And that's actually like one of the strategies I help people do in the book is like, actually, take your leisure time. And what I mean by leisure time is something that actually serves your utility function as a primary purpose. Okay? So when people say like, oh yeah, this is my leisure time. I was helping my friend. Or this is my leisure time. I was baking cookies for my kids' class. It's not actually your leisure time, right? That, that's called parenting, that one, right? That was part of your parenting time. So when I say leisure time, I mean something where the first beneficiary is actually you, which is really hard for us to do.

• 26:29Speaker 01

  I love that language. The first beneficiary. It's, it's actually such a concrete way of visualizing it. Tell me more. And how do we mistake, how do we mistake that?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, because I think we say like, well, I love baking cookies for my kid, right? And I understand that you love it. And that's great because then that's a way to show your love because you can't, you don't want to fill up your basket with all the things that everybody else is doing to show their love. You want to pick the one that you love. And if you love baking cookies, bake the cookie. If you love practicing soccer, practice soccer. If you love bedtime, do the extended bedtime, right? But that's great, but that's still not leisure time. Okay? And at the end of the day, the week, the year, and the years of our life, if we don't take leisure time to fill our own cup, we cannot be relaxed, we cannot be happy, we cannot be present and patient and joyful with our kids.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  We can't parent à la Dr. Becky and all the great advice we're getting because we're just so depleted. And so for me, like, the biggest cure for my mom guilt was seeing my relationship with my son blossom when I was getting my needs met. That I was such a better parent when my cup was full that that was what he needed more than all of the other things I was trying to give him that were making things not add up.

• 27:50Speaker 01

  Okay, two questions. First, let's say someone's thinking, even if my kid didn't have to bring cookies the next day, or if my kid was on a field trip overnight, I'd be baking those cookies anyway. Is that an example of someone who's like, oh, maybe that is for me?

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, then it's for me. Then it's like, I actually like this. I'm the first kind of recipient of the benefit of this. And the same thing if you're like, well, you know, going and helping my friend garden, it was actually first for me because I actually love getting outside and like having someone to talk to, right? But you know, are you the first, the primary beneficiary of this or not? And that's what I mean by leisure time. And I want you to block that out the same way you block out the appointment for your kid's soccer game, the, you know, podcast taping or the meeting with your boss. Because you, moms who are listening and the dads who are listening too, who if you feel stretched for time, you're a member of your household.

• 28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:44Speaker 02

  We so often forget that, like, mom is a member of the household. And that was a huge mistake that I made in my own life and how I got to the point of being so depleted where I ended up making big changes. You can read about them in the book. But I forgot that to even consider my own needs in the equation. And if something is not working for you, it's not working for the family.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Because you're part of the family.

• 29:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list

• 30:00Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content.

• 30:42Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  One of my kids really likes to write and record their own stories with the "make your own" cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind-down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  You know, I find this phrase you just said very provocative and I like things that are provocative because it gets our body to respond and, you know, remember. I just keep hearing in my head, "First for me." What do I do in my life that is first for me? And the reason I like the language is it sounds so close to selfish. Like, and so many of us have been trained to think self-care is selfish. First for me is selfish, right? And again, we don't have to think in extremes. You don't need to be first for me with 100% of your time. Like I always, you know, say, when I talk about self-care as a mom, I'm not really talking about you going to Paris for three years and be like, "Hey, guys, I just need to live in Paris for three years." See you when you're 15.

• 32:08Speaker 01

  No, obviously. But that is what we imagine when we think about saying to our kid, "No, you can't come with me for a walk around the block because the whole point is that I'm not with you for my walk around the block." Right? And we do kind of equate the emotionality of that as if I'm saying to my kid, "I'm going to Paris for three years. Fend for yourself." And so I just love our listeners right now, or viewers, thinking about the phrase, "First for me." I am doing something first for me. And I like saying it boldly because I want people to be uncomfortable. Okay? First for me. And just to notice, what comes up for me?

• 32:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, how that feels, yeah.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  And what have you noticed comes up for women around that?

• 32:50Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, for women, for myself, right? Just this idea that you feel like you're letting somebody down or you're not being as good of a mom as you possibly could be. And that's the problem with that idea of maximizing on all fronts at once is that you're like, "I'm not as good of a worker as I possibly could be. I'm not as good of a mom as I possibly could be. I'm not as good of a PTA volunteer as I possibly could be." And it's like, no, because there's one 24-hour day and you're trying to do all of those things. So you're going to be the best that you can in each of those dimensions while also holding on to this core of yourself? Because if you let go of that core of yourself, then you can't show up in those other spaces either.

• 33:29Speaker 01

  That's so right. And the other thing I just want everyone listening to know, because I'm sure people say a lot's coming up for me. Like Dr. Becky, I feel like you're giving me a panic attack just thinking about that phrase. Okay, that panic is a sign that you're thinking about something new, not wrong. And here's how I know that it's not wrong. Okay, I don't know one baby who came out of the womb thinking,

• 33:53Speaker 01

  I feel like I can't scream at 2 a.m. for food, it just.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  I need to think about other people.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  I don't know, like would my friends scream and I don't, is this too much? No, you know, babies are first for me at 2 a.m., at 4 a.m., at 10 p.m. They don't care. Okay, first for me. So it's really interesting. And by the way, that's adaptive because if a baby was always thinking about a parent's needs, they wouldn't scream. No parent is willingly waking up at 2 a.m. being like, I'm just gonna check if the baby needs to eat again. And so being first for me comes from an adaptive evolutionary place.

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 34:28Speaker 01

  And somehow, most of us women went from I wear my personal needs and desires on my sleeve to my personal needs and desires are scary or they're so distant for me. Like, I don't even know, I don't even know where they are, right? But they do, I always tell people, they're in there.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:50Speaker 01

  You wouldn't have survived without personal needs. And yes, it's a balance of, of course, there's times we all don't do me first because we have to go, you know, do something for other people. That's just what it means to be in a healthy relationship. But so many of us have lost the first for me.

• 35:05Speaker 02

  We've lost the balance and then we almost lose the experience of our lives, like being present in the experience of our lives. And that was how I felt in my own life. I felt like I was like standing outside of it and I was just doing, you know, running, rushing, trying, right? And I didn't have experiences, like we lose sight of ourselves as the protagonist of our lives. And I will give listeners, watchers, like, one more piece of permission to do this because we need, we need that.

• 35:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 35:35Speaker 02

  Which is that when people hear the stats about, you know, men not doing as much in the household and how that really needs to change, we're like, well, part of it is how we parent our boys, right? There's things we can do in parenting our boys proactively and bringing them into the work of the household, but actually, a huge thing that you can do to change this for the next generation is protect your own needs and recognize yourself as a person who has feelings and desires and a, and a multiplicity of desires within the household. Because if you let yourself become an angry, empty, depleted shell in service of your children and your family, you are modeling for your sons that they can expect that of their wives.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  A hundred percent, yes. Like, right on the nose, that kids learn from what we do, not from what we say. So you can have all the good conversations, but if your kid's watching you run into, run yourself into the ground in the name of love, then that's just modeling what a loving relationship is, which is not what we want.

• 36:37Speaker 02

  So you can think of yourself as a warrior for gender equality.

• 36:41Speaker 01

  Oh, love that.

• 36:41Speaker 02

  When you actually take care of yourself.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  I love that. And just to make that one more level concrete for people, you know, I'll use myself as an example. So I'm going on a girl's trip in a couple of weeks with some of my, you know, friends. And now my kids are used to me, you know, traveling for work or different things, but when this started, like, the first time, of course, I was like, oh, my goodness, and you're always missing something, you know? Oh, you know, I want to be there for even this, the night before my kid's test, whatever it is, right? And I remember one of the times when, early on, my kid said, oh, like, what, you're going away for, you know, I don't know, three, four nights, whatever it was? Um, why are you doing that? And why can't we come with you? And I think sometimes in these situations, because we're uncomfortable, we kind of put something parentified on our kids.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Don't you want me to be happy? Like, oh, eesh, right? And it's so un-sturdy.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:33Speaker 01

  You know? And so I remember hearing myself say, I love being your mom. I, I love it. I love our time together. I love putting you to bed at night. Like, I love, you know, the dinners and those conversations and the play to all the things, okay? And... I love the time I have with my girlfriends. Or I love going out to dinner with your dad when it's just the two of us. It's inherently different and that is still a very important part of me. And my job is to make sure I keep it alive. And so unconsciously, I think also what I don't always say is you can be mad. I don't need you to say, this is going to be really good for you, mom. Enjoy that trip, you deserve it. And I know you're going to come back more refreshed to be my parent win-win. Like, my kids have never said that.

• 38:14Speaker 01

  Right, but the more you're aware of your values and knowing the importance to yourself and your whole system of having me first some of the time, the more you can tolerate some of that messiness and people's response to.

• 38:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's right. Like, tolerate the discomfort because you know that by filling your own cup, that is supporting, that's part of the scaffolding of you being able to show up as the type of parent that you want to be.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  That's exactly right. And, you know, the other thing that struck me about this is, you know, I'm a Duke basketball fan.

• 38:49Speaker 02

  I went to Duke, did you know that?

• 38:51Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 38:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, Duke undergrad.

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Me too.

• 38:54Speaker 02

  No, I had no idea.

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Go Blue Devils. And you wouldn't see people, we still love you. Multiple things can be true, okay? But I won't be rooting for you on, you know, the next game. But I'm pretty sure this was right, right? It seems we got our turn. But I think there's this game last year where Cooper Flag, right? This like amazing, amazing star. You know, he's this amazing player. He can score. He also is amazing in his assists, defense, like blocks, everything. And there was a game where I think he was reflecting, or maybe it was the coach John Shire reflecting, that there are certain moments when they need him to quote, be more selfish, right? Where, yeah, we know you can pass, like, when the game's on the line and you know you can score, the team needs you to score. And even if someone's like, pass to me, pass to me. And you're like, I just know, I've got this.

• 39:37Speaker 01

  Like, the greater good, and if the team is the family, is for you to do your thing. And sometimes when I'm thinking about a moment where I'm like, I know still it can feel uncomfortable to go on this trip. Like, I'm like, I'm just going to channel my Cooper Flag. Like, the team, the team isn't going to tell me.

• 39:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  I need you to go on this trip. But like, the team, the team wants to win.

• 40:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  Period. The team wants to win. My family wants to win as a family. And this is sometimes a part of that.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  And like with parents, always like the thing that we see a little bit more than our kids is the bigger picture, right? When it's a toddler, you're seeing a much bigger picture. They're really focused on that tiny moment. But even when it's a teenager, you're still seeing a bigger picture, a longer view than what they're seeing. And so even though they want you in that moment, it was for me, it was like going to yoga. My son used to be like, I don't want you to go to WOGA. So then you're like, oh, my God, I feel so bad. Right. But what you see that they don't see is like, yes, but then for me to spend an hour hugging you into bed and reading stories and listening to you and to then be patient when you're pushing back on a limit or when you're, you know, telling me no.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  And then I'm able to sit there and be patient and let you have your feelings. That is because I went to yoga.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  That's right. And it's okay. I just want everyone to know this. You can know that without having

• 40:58Speaker 02

  To explain it all.

• 40:59Speaker 01

  To explain it. Right. And your kid isn't going to say, I understand the bigger picture. They are the kid. You are the adult. And actually, I think this becomes a little bit easier when you can kind of look at yourself in the mirror and say, I'm going to go to yoga. My son's going to be upset. Looking in the mirror, I know I deserve this. I know I need this. I know this is one of those me first moments where yes, it's going to be uncomfortable because it's new, not wrong. And this is for the greater good. This is so our team can win. And the other players in this moment might not give me a high five because they want the ball.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:34Speaker 01

  That's okay.

• 41:35Speaker 02

  Right.

• 41:35Speaker 01

  And I have clarity.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  And I can proceed. And so I just, I love that.

• 41:46Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty, you can list

• 42:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host. Here's a question parents ask me all the time. How can I help my kid take ownership of their routine? I love this question because owning a routine is such a good way for kids to build independence and confidence. It's why I'm excited to tell you about Yodo, the screen-free audio player for kids. In the mornings, your kid can wake up with Yodo's alarm clock. When your kid gets home from school, Yodo has focus tracks, audiobooks, music, and learning content. One of my kids really likes to write and record their own

• 43:15Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  stories with the make your own cards. Then at night, your kid can build a wind down routine with Yodo's toothbrush timer, white noise, and nightlight. With the right sounds, stories, and a bit of structure, thanks to Yodo, mornings feel more manageable. Homework time feels calmer, and winding down before bed becomes something kids can run themselves, making the whole school year feel a little easier for everyone. Use the code DRBECKY15 for 15% off your order at Yodoplay.com. New customers only, ends October 31st. Terms apply. Offer valid on select products only.

• 43:54Speaker 01

  Let me ask you, just as we kind of come to an end, I'm picturing the parent who's gonna end up lying in bed at night and just thinking about, oh my goodness, all the things they have to do and how they don't have enough hours in the day. What a small step someone could take. To to rebalance, to reprioritize, to recenter on your own values.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  So, one is that I want you to find something that you're going to actually take off your plate.

• 44:23Speaker 01

  Okay?

• 44:24Speaker 02

  And that could be because you're going to reallocate it to your partner, right? And I talk in the book about promoting our partners from low-level junior employees to co-CEOs of the household.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Congratulations!

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's empowering. You say, "Guess what? You're getting a promotion."

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  You're gonna take end-to-end ownership of the lunchboxes. Instead of me delegating it to you, you're gonna be in charge of, you know, the shopping and the packing and the cleaning up. And then you're gonna learn that if you send Wheat Thins instead of Triscuits, they come back uneaten, and it's not gonna be my job to tell you that, okay?

• 44:55Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 44:56Speaker 02

  So, giving your partners a promotion. So, it could be because you're giving it to your partners. It could be because you are actually outsourcing it. And that can be a scary, charged word, because people hear outsourcing and they hear like, "Oh, uh, this and her, like, disposable income, who wants me to outsource?" Right? But actually, what I want us to remember is that we're actually pretty comfortable outsourcing male-coded tasks and uncomfortable outsourcing female-coded tasks. So, even very modest-income families, probably most of the people here listening, take their car to the mechanic for an oil change. And it's 70 bucks, 80 bucks, and everybody could do it themselves if they spend an hour on YouTube. But we assign value to men's time, so we think it's normal to hire people for male-coded tasks.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  I just, this is one of the moments I wish I could snap. I don't, I actually am unable to snap, because I would just be like snapping so hardcore right now. So, I'm snapping in spirit.

• 45:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, so just if there is something where, you know, you are not outsourcing, it means hiring yourself to do it.

• 45:56Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  And, you know, just like the mechanic, sometimes it's okay to bring in an expert, an outside expert for something, rather than hire yourself.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 02

  And then the last thing is, then maybe... There's some stuff that you just don't do. And I call this throwing out your houseplants. Okay, because all of my houseplants are dying. Okay, I'm on book tour and they make me feel guilty and like a failure.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  Those plants!

• 46:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I would love to be the type of person that has like the herb garden on the windowsill that I can like snip the fresh herbs and sprinkle them on the chicken or whatever, right? And maybe I'm not going to be that person right now. Right, right now in this chapter of my life, it's a period that I call the squeeze, where everything is pushing down at once. Maybe that's not who I am and that's okay. And so finding a houseplant to throw out, something you're just saying, "I'm going to put this down right now."

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:46Speaker 02

  Because all of this doesn't fit in my time basket.

• 46:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  That's okay. So I hope that's the one thing I would ask everyone to do is to just find something to get off of your plate through one of those different strategies.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  It's so actionable and so helpful and possible. Um, thank you. This has been an amazing conversation. I can't wait to talk to you about so many more things in the future. This is so helpful and thank you for your really important work.

• 47:12Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. Yeah, it was great to talk to you and you know, I think there's so much more I wish I could fit in. Um, but there's, there's more strategies in the book and I hope that people will find it.

• 47:21Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Having it all, what data tells us about women's lives and getting the most out of yours. It's incredible, so thought provoking and so practical. And that's a marriage I always love, so thank you.

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Thank you so much. I have so many takeaways from this conversation, but I'm going to talk about the three that are kind of loudest in my mind. Number one, this idea of throwing out a houseplant, I just find so actionable. Is there something we can all just say, "I'm not going to do that in this season of my life, this week." Try it, experiment and just see what happens. Number two, this idea that we think about outsourcing traditionally male tasks completely differently than we think about outsourcing traditionally female tasks has got me really thinking. Actually, right after recording, Corinne and I were talking about the idea of hiring a professional organizer and she knows someone who does it for $50 an hour,

• 48:16Speaker 02

  which is less money than the per hour cost of getting an oil change. And so just think about that a little bit.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  And number three, I just keep thinking about the importance of boundaries. At the end of the day, our ability to carve out time for ourself, to have hard conversations with our partner, and definitely to tolerate the pushback and the whining and the meltdowns that might come from our kids. It all comes down to, do I know the skill of setting and holding a boundary? And a lot of you know, that's actually my favorite skill to teach. And I just keep thinking about how important that is.

• 48:52Speaker 01

  All right, let's end the way we always do. Place your feet on the ground and a hand on your heart. And let's remind ourselves, even as we struggle on the outside, we remain good inside.

• 49:09Speaker 01

  I'll see you soon.

• 49:14Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know, parents carry a lot. In fact, data show that most parents spend every waking hour caring for someone else. So if you feel exhausted and stretched thin, you're not alone, and that makes sense. And look, I also know from experience what a relief it is to find caregiving support. Finding a babysitter you trust and your kids will have fun with. That makes it so much easier to go back to work or travel, or yeah, even go on one date with your partner. Care.com makes it easier to find trusted, background-checked caregivers with search and hiring tools you won't find on social media. Whether you need full-time help or just part-time help with morning drop-off

• 49:56Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  or after-school care, care.com can help you find nannies, sitters, and daycares. And you can find the expertise that matters to you. Think homework help, CPR training, or experience with multiple kids. And if you're considering daycare, you can search, compare, and request tours and could even get a discount on daycare tuition as a care.com member. If you need more support, care.com can help. For a limited time, you can use the code BECKY35 to save 35% on a care.com membership. When it's not you, it's care.com.

• 50:35Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  You know that feeling when your brain is at full capacity, right? I mean, you have a reminder from the dentist in your email, a birthday party invitation on the fridge, and your kid just texted you about a soccer game they forgot to mention until that moment, and you just cannot remember one more thing.

• 50:51Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That's where Skylight Calendar comes in. It's an all-in-one digital smart calendar that syncs with Google, Apple, and Outlook to help your whole family see the days and weeks ahead. And I really love the tasks feature, which is designed to help your kid build routines around things like homework and chores. And when your kid can do those things independently, it's a huge win for everyone in the family. Skylight Calendar is so much more than just a calendar. It's something you can add to your routine to help your family work together. And right now, Skylight is offering our listeners $30 off their 15-inch calendars by going to myskylight.com/becky.

• 51:31Dr. Becky Kennedy?

  That's M-Y-S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T.com/becky for $30 off your 15-inch calendar. myskylight.com/becky.