Good Inside with Dr. Becky
Hosted by Dr. Becky Kennedy
Original podcast
Comedian and actress Ilana Glazer, joins Dr. Becky to talk about motherhood, boundaries, and being a millennial parent.
9,198 words · 3 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
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So I have a really fun conversation to share with you. I sat down the other day with Alana Glazer. Alana is a comedian, a writer, a producer. She's an actor. She does so many things. She has a new comedy special, Human Magic, that's currently streaming on Hulu. And she loves talking about parenting. She's so self-reflective. She's so open. She's so honest. And in this episode, we talk about being a millennial parent and what that means, sleep struggles, and my favorite topic of all time, boundaries. I'm Dr. Becky, and this is Good Inside. We'll be right back.
I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season. And craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space empty,
you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.
Hi, Awana.
Hi, Dr. Becky, also known as Rebecca Kennedy. I'm obsessed. I'm so grateful. I'm so excited. This is way more like street cred celeb currency to my best friends than other celebrities who are famous for whatever. I'm thrilled. Not about the currency, but my own personal love for you.
Your things can be true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I'm thrilled for both.
Yeah. Well, I'm so excited. You're so smart and you make me proud to be a millennial parent, you know?
Well, that's like the nicest thing someone's ever said to me. So thank you. I will take that in. I feel like I've gotten better at that. I used to be like, oh, no, no, no. And then it's like, no, that feels good. And this work is so hard. So we all need some affirmation to keep going.
That's so from our like teen years in the early 2000s. Somebody gives you a compliment and you're like, no.
Right?
It's like, no?
Right.
It's their truth about you, you know? It's like not even.
For me, this whole thing, I really mean this, I really believe that everyone has all the ingredients they need inside them. That we have those resources. We've all built up layers and probably especially as women, so many layers to kind of block access to our power, our strength, our desire, what we want, the ability to tolerate doing things even when other people are inconvenienced. Again, no baby's ever born saying like, oh, I want more milk, but my mom's going to be upset. So I'm not going to cry. We obviously all have that within us. And so, one of the reasons I think I initially was like, no, no, no, is because I'm like, wait, this is not, I really mean this, I don't think I insert knowledge into someone. I'm like, we all need a guide to just get back to that.
But I know in my life, when I have found books or people who've really touched me and been part of my journey and been a guide for me, that's still really, really significant. You know, to feel like there's something that really speaks to something within you. I'm so honored to meet you.
Thanks so much. It's like, what you're making me think of right now is, actually goes back to what I was saying about being proud to be a millennial parent, because I think millennials are kind of the first generation to be so, not casually therapized, but like, it's not a shameful thing anymore. And I think when, when a lot of us were getting into it in our twenties, it was like a big deal. And now it's like, either a thing that we did that really helped, or it's just not, it's just, there's not as much of a stigma in seeking out help with your mental health.
Yeah.
And I think that, or I like to believe that millennials have the most formed sense of accountability emotionally, where like, we know that it's our thing. In fact, even complimenting you, that's my thing, because I need you to be the person that you are for me on Instagram. And I guess I also am hoping you like me. So I'm like, I really like you. You know what I mean? But I'm like, ah, these are my things as well. Like, it doesn't necessarily mean that you, that I expect you to be the person that I think you are, or something. It's like, more of an offering. And I think that we, I like to believe that millennials are imparting this accountability
and separateness from their children, more than any generation before.
Say more about that.
You know, this like, sort of like gentle parenting and, and, you know, there's like, sort of branding, but it's like, gentle parenting? You mean parenting? It's been so harsh. It's been so harsh, that, you know, it's supposed to be gentle. And what's harsh is like, the societal structure around this cosmically magical experience. We should all be free to and supported in enjoying.
As much as we possibly can, the accountability for like, oh, those were my feelings. You know what I mean? And like, my kid, you said something that my husband and I repeat all the time. It's like, she's not giving me a hard time. She's having a hard time. And while that phrase really helped me and helped us and helps us consistently, I think that you gave words to a sense that our generation is having
more than before.
You know, in the 90s, it's like, knock it off. You know what I mean? And it's like, shut up back there or whatever. And it's like, no, in fact, that parent is having a hard time. I now look back on
you know, those like 30 year olds, like struggling to raise their two or three kids in the isolated suburbs of wherever.
Uh huh.
But, you know, as a kid, not that my parents were like that, but that was the parenting culture in the 90s and 2000s, when I was a kid growing up on Long Island. And it was like, these people like, think we work for them. You know what I mean?
Yeah. Well, what is making me think? Cause yes, that classic harsh parenting that I do think has been at least American parenting for like a very long time. Right? You, your kid acts out and you're like, go to your room or you can't talk to me that way. And you kind of just, I often think you just get to vomit your own frustration onto your kid in the moment and call it discipline. I don't know. That's all it really is. Like, I don't want to feel the hard thing I'm feeling in this moment. So I'm just gonna kind of make you feel that way instead. And we call it kind of discipline or keeping our kids in line. Although it's just, that would never be tolerated anymore, at least in like the workplace. I don't even think sports coaches really coach that way if they're trying to
optimize, you know, an athlete's performance. And when I'm asked often, like, Dr. Becky, at Good Inside, it seems like you guys don't really do punishments, which by the way, I'm always like, well, of course I naturally screen them sometimes. It's just so natural to come out with them.
Thanks for saying that.
But I never think it's effective. And someone will say, well, is that soft? And, and in line with what you're saying, I'm like, you know what's soft? Like really soft?
Your kid is tantruming and that is enough to put you into a tizzy and say things that you don't even intend to follow up on and lose it in front of your child. Where, you know, recently I was talking to a parent who was like, oh, my kid says like, you're the worst dad. And I'm like, it's insane. I can't let him get away with that. And he was a sports person. I was like, imagine LeBron James being with a kid. And a kid's like, you're the worst basketball player. And LeBron's like, sorry, Becky, I cannot let that kid get away with that. You cannot say that to me. Whoa, LeBron. Wow. Okay. Like, is your self esteem that fragile? Right? Just move on. Yeah. Right? Yeah. And I think anyone would say that's, that's,
that's pathetic. Like, you let this child eviscerate your power because of their words that they happened to say when they were feeling out of control, because they don't have the skills to like, manage that. We would say that's soft, that someone was that able to be tipped over. But in parenting, we say, that's, that's like, discipline. Right? It doesn't make sense.
You're so right. Like, we don't even like, talk this way at work anymore. It's considered like, in TV and film, these are considered toxic environments where people talk this way. Yeah, it's crazy.
And I, I don't know if it's because kids just are the most vulnerable. They don't know what they deserve. They can't speak up for themselves. Right? So if they did band together, they'd be like, this doesn't, this doesn't feel good. It also just doesn't make sense. You're not helping us become the adults you want to become. But there are, I think, a number of adults now and parents who are saying, not only does that stuff not feel good to kids or adults, you know, because we remember it not feeling good to us anyway, but it's not working. And there's a better way. And that better way, we don't have to go from one extreme to the other. Like, I feel like often it's like, oh, so you don't punish, so everything's okay. There's so much space between those two extremes. Right? No, that's not what it means. And I think it feels, it feels right. I mean,
that's what happened for me. I was trained to teach every parent how to do punishments and timeouts and sticker charts.
You were trained?
Yes. Psychologist.
To do punishments and sticker charts?
Yes.
Oh, oh, oh.
I know.
Ew.
And, and I, and I have to admit, I'm sorry, I always think admit can be upgraded to share. Admit is shame.
A couple therapy, I'm like, I'm finding myself admitting all these things, but share is, that's a nice swap.
It can always be swapped. So I'm going to share that I was in this program, it was after my PhD where I said, I want to work with parents. I'm getting a lot of referrals from parents. I think at the time I just thought, well, I should get more education. I always liked learning. So let me go to the place that teaches people like me as a psychologist, how to work with parents with their kids. And it was very esteemed. Everyone's like, oh my goodness, you got into this place, this program. And it was how to deliver timeouts, sticker charts, ignoring praise. And essentially, I remember, I remember being very excited. That's the share. That's the sharing. I, I was very excited because I think the left part of our brain really lights up.
It's so linear and logical that you're like, amazing, I'm gonna reward the good to get more of the good. I'm gonna, and this was the word, they said extinguish the bad to get less of the bad. And you never wondered, well, like, how are we raising humans? No one ever talked about that.
Extinguish, I'm like gagging on that word.
I know. Why are you gagging on that word?
It's literally reminding me of learning about the Holocaust in Hebrew school. It's scary. Because honestly, these systems like do extinguish parts of our humanity and like do extend to these violent structures we live among, beside, within. And it, that like, that systemic dehumanizing, these parenting tactics that we've been taught for so long are an extension of that. So it's just like putting a very fine point on it for me. Because it, this is a system that, in a curriculum, that, uh, curriculum in your literal, specific sense, but also like, I started in my like standup special, I talk about, you know, developing early and I started babysitting at nine years old.
And, you know, even at that point, this curriculum about childcare that we've learned for so long is really dehumanizing. And it is aiming to make our children our employees. And it's sad. It makes me sad.
I, I think the word dehumanizing just really sticks that I just think about in my worst moments as an adult. Like in my worst moments.
The idea that someone is treating me kind of in a way that's consistent with seeing me as that worst moment, like I just must be that person, right? Is so spiraling. Like in your worst moments, you definitely don't need someone to throw you a party. That's, you know, that one, oh, I love you when you're like this. But you need someone, and it's gonna sound cheesy, who can set a boundary and stop you from self-destructing because you're not in a good place or making good decisions. You need someone to see the good inside you when you can't feel it for yourself. You need it. Like, we're relational beings. We all operate with people in some degree, definitely our kids. We're their mirrors. We reflect back to them who they are, and that's how they form their identity. And then their identity dictates their behaviors going forward.
And so when they hit, and like, and by the way, all the words, you'll appreciate this, someone's saying, you're always so good at like, acting out what parents shouldn't say. I'm like, I'm not really like, acting it out. I'm just reliving the things I've said to my children, like, I'm not an actress. What's wrong with you? Go to your room. Your sister would never do this, right? Or, you're like a sociopath. You don't even care about anyone. Okay, so there's that moment, but kids don't learn from moments. They learn from themes and patterns. And what a kid takes in isn't, wait, I think my parent just means that I can't hit and I just have to manage my anger. They did way too nuanced. They just think, the person I care about the most, who kind of knows who I am, they're my parent, they're my safest, most important adult, is looking at me like I'm an evil,
awful, dehumanized person. And if that happens over and over, kids believe the way we look at them.
Yeah. Yeah. The admission you were making when you shared about getting into this special program was that you were excited about this curriculum. Yeah.
I was. I mean, I just, when I was doing it, you know, I think, maybe I'm just talking about me. I like things that are nuanced, but there's still this part of my brain that likes things to be
Totally.
very linear and clear. And if I have this input, I will get this output. And I think the reason parents like timeouts and punishments and sticker charts is because I think the worst part of parenting is when you just don't understand your kid. You think the worst part of parenting is when your kids act out and they have annoying behaviors. I don't enjoy that particularly. Having said that, the thing about those situations that spiral us isn't the behavior, it's not understanding it and being really confused. And I think in those moments of confusion, if you have something that gives you something crisp and clear and concrete, even if it doesn't make sense, even if you don't believe in it, even if it feels bad, I feel like us humans, we really like clarity. And so I think it's compelling. Oh, I just, I know how to give a timeout.
You have a two minute timeout for hitting your sister. You're not going to get your sticker. And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, now they have a tantrum that they're not getting their sticker. But at least I feel like I know what to do. And I think through my own journey, what I realized is wait, okay, parents need to know what to do. We all do. Nobody tells us what to do. The world tells us it should come naturally. I believe the only thing that comes naturally is how you were parented, which is often not the thing they want to repeat. And so what if there was a system that just felt better and more right and almost more healing, but was equally as clear and concrete? I mean, that's, that's how, that's how this whole thing got started.
How did you like raise your consciousness out of sticker charts?
I mean, the truth of it was I delivered that method to parents for a little while in my private practice. I did.
I get it.
And then I had, I had my first around the same time. I mean, I wasn't doing a ton of parenting work before I had my son. I feel like once I did, I was like, oh, well, this is so hard. I want to do more of this work. And really it was the course of these months where I would like be sharing with people what to do. And every couple sessions, something shifted. At first it was like, this is amazing. And I have clarity and I can tell them. And then maybe in a couple of weeks, it was like, there's this like weird feeling. It's only like 5%. That's like, I don't know about this. And then that was like 10%. And then truly the thing became so loud in me. I don't know if you've heard me say this before, it really, in some ways was like this watershed moment where I said to these parents, I'm sorry, I don't believe anything I'm telling you.
Wow.
And when I look back on that moment, it feels, the reason it feels important is because I actually didn't know what to tell them instead. And I said that to them. I remember being like, I'm gonna do some thinking.
Holy shit.
And they were like, can we have our money back? I was like, definitely. Please just don't write me a bad Yelp review or something.
But to me, that moment of I know something is wrong, and I can know that before I know what is right.
Uh huh, uh huh, right.
I feel like kind of informed everything experimental that almost came next.
You like experimented, because I'm like, what then? How did you build this new whatever curriculum or practice through like experimenting?
Kind of. I think the thing that struck me and why it felt so wrong is I'd have, like, my, my days were very long in private practice. And I'd see, okay, parents of a three-year-old, couples therapy, individual adult, individual adult, individual adult, teenager after school, another parenting session. So I'd have all these different kind of things. Whereas like parenting versus a teen versus couples versus adults.
And I think the thing that felt bad was everything I know helps teens, couples, and adults change the way they see the world and live more of the life they want to live is that theoretical opposition with what I'm telling parents to do. Like, we've talked about therapy being a therapy. When you struggle, your therapist doesn't say to you, give me your phone. I'm taking your phone for a week and come back when you figure that out.
You'd be like, that's the best you've got? That's soft.
That's pathetic, you know? Help me figure this out.
And so I was like, how could the things that teens, couples, and adults need to rewire be so different than what kids need? And I think that goes back maybe to our commonality, like, they're humans.
All humans need the same things.
And so what if I took this kind of way I had of working with adults, this combination of different things I had learned, my own creativity, what if I just reverse engineered that to parents and made it concrete and practical? Because that's tends to be what I need to kind of trust things anyway. And I think I've really learned so much from adults, like what, what their well-intentioned parents did that as a pattern felt really off, how they needed to shift. And some of that really informed, you know, what I shared with parents more than anything else.
Two things I want to say.
Okay.
Two and a half. The first is I want listeners and viewers to know that our feet aren't touching the ground.
It's really true. It's, it's an important.
You're like pretending that your left foot is. It's not. Our feet are swinging. Okay, we're short, people. Second thing I want to say, when you talked about a timeout, is, um, you know, it's like, the timeout is this outside-in version of like pausing, which is the same kinda vibe, but like from the inside out. Like, one does need a pause, but to be like imprisoned in that moment is like so dehumanizing, you know, truly. And it's like, you don't get access to me, your biggest source of care and provision. You go away from me. And it's like, yeah, of course I, can I curse?
Curse.
Of course, I want a fucking break too. But it's also like, let's take a break from this. Let's take a beat. We always say beat. Let's take a beat. Um, oh my God. And then the other thing about clarity is like, I shared with you before this session that I don't feel like diving into it here and I'm sorry. Um, but we're having like some sleep troubles. I've been like so persistently painful for such a long time that I'm mired in an entanglement of feelings that I can't start to detangle here. But after the session, I do need your help badly. But clarity, I was just thinking yesterday morning, you talked about doing a like placeholder name. Should I call my child Bert?
Does that feel right?
Honestly, she loves Bert on Tussany Street. She loves Bert and Oscar, which I'm like, you are empathetic. You care for, for.
So many parts.
I love it. Like caring for these sour characters and boring characters. I love it. So my beautiful daughter Bert.
Couldn't, um, could not go back to sleep. And while it didn't work, one thing I did was, I was like, let's take a bath. At like five in the morning. I was like, you want to take a bath? Just the change in element from air to water. I was like, that's a clarity from the inside out, from like a human place. That I'm in fact proud to share here, rather than the inconsistent and challenged ways I've been dealing with our sleep struggles. But I am like happy to share here, like, let's just like, sit in water and like pour water over your head. And it really did calm her down and clarify things, actually. It's like, I don't know, she was all buzzy and wired and knew
it was weird to be up. So then the bath is just like a type of clarity that I think is more human, anyway.
Yeah. I have so many different thoughts. Number one, sleep with one of my kids is definitely the area that I feel like I made some of my worst parenting decisions in, that I feel.
Thank you. Oh, my God. I'm like, verklempt. Thank you.
I mean, but sleep, it's so primal. Honestly, when I talk to parents and I'm like, just tell me all the things, because it's never that clean. They're like, yeah, it's the tantrums, it's the rudeness, it's the hitting, it's the sibling stuff, it's the sleep. I actually always say, let's start with sleep first. Because when your kid's sleep is disrupted, and your sleep is disrupted, nobody has any large percentage of what they would need to even manage the other things well. It's so basic, right? I mean, one of the things you do to torture people is deprive them of sleep. So it's so important. And so to me, that's always the starting point. And when you're not sleeping, you, it's just, I remember with one of my kids, it's so triggering. You, you do feel like your kid is giving you a hard time.
You really do.
Oh, my God.
Even me, I'm like, were they having, yeah, they were having a hard time, but it really didn't feel like that. Because you're like, I want to be doing the opposite of what I'm doing. Now, I want to be not talking to you and not interacting with you at all, because I would be sleeping in my bed. And so regulating yourself. And so we act from that place of powerlessness and helplessness. And I'm happy to share here. I mean, one of my kids, because, and this is such a big lesson for me, I don't even know if I've talked about this, but I was so scared of letting her into my room for a period of time. And I think this like fast forward error, oh, she's never gonna leave and you know, and now I look, right?
Oh, or fast forward of like, well, I better enjoy it because one day it'll never happen again.
Right, either way.
And so for a period of time, she slept on the wood floor outside of our bedroom. And she's also so resolute and strong that I remember her saying, when we then were like, wait a second, maybe she's just coming to our room, but I think whatever it was, the injury, she said, I'm a, I'm a wood person.
Ooh.
Not a bed person.
And if I could go back and give myself advice, it'd be like, she's going through a hard time. It was when I had my third, that shakes up a kid's world. And she, she, she needed something that she wouldn't always need. And it's okay to give into that. And that's not permissive and it's not forever. And maybe I give her that for a little bit. And then maybe weeks or months later, I'd be like, you know what, we're, we're shifting away because something has changed. But I was scared to do that. And me and my husband still talk. That was not a good set of, that was not our best set of decisions.
I slept on the floor like a dog in my parents' bedroom. And I like, look back, I'm like, something's off there.
Something's off. Something's off. I certainly didn't want my daughter in my bed and, and struggled with it, but then like embraced it.
And was like reliance, you know what I mean? Reliance. Just, we like literally are animals as well as human beings. And embraced it for a while. And I'm just like, I'm at a lost point right now, but I feel you. It's so, it's so weird, you know? And the other thing like about like boundaries, it's like, we have so many outside in, dehumanizing boundaries enforced upon us non-consensually in this world. And it's like, kind of hard to know what a real human boundary from the inside out is.
I don't know about you, but by the time September rolls around, I am ready for cozy season. That's when I start thinking about Thanksgiving plans and travel that allows me to spend quality time with my family. I'm thinking board games, changing leaves, maybe even a living room with a fireplace where we can read our books together. Maybe you're the kind of family that loves an adventure and wants a cabin in the mountains somewhere. Or maybe you're Dreading the end of summer and need to look forward to staying at a home on the beach with a view of the ocean. Or maybe you love to cook, so you want to stay in a home with your dream kitchen. Wherever your travel plans take you, it's the perfect time to get a little reset together as a family before the holiday season and craziness begins. But here's something you may not have considered. If you're planning to go away this year, leaving your own space
empty, you can list it on Airbnb while you're away to give another family some quality time in a home away from home. You get to make use of your space and you can earn some extra income to put toward your family's future travel plans. Your home might be worth more than you think. Find out how much at Airbnb.com/host.
I was sharing with you that I'm in analysis. I said psychoanalysis. So it's like high-frequency therapy, three times a week, 45 minutes on the diz. At 45 minutes, we out. Rebecca Kennedy, it's done. It is. And it has like enforced boundaries on me where I'm like, oh, at first I was like, he hates me. He fucking hates me.
Least favorite patient. Always want to know, like, my favorite patient.
Right, right. And then I've actually just learned, like, oh, my doctor needs these boundaries in order to care. And I talked about it with him. I was like, feel like you hate me? You know, we like talk through it where it's like you need, he needs these boundaries to care for me and his other patients, you know, and whatever. Like, I've learned the feeling of receiving boundaries and thus how to enact them from the inside out myself through this psychoanalytic practice I've been in for five years, more than any other, I don't know, learning boundaries before, or like never learning them early on. And yeah, it's just, it's really hard. It's really hard to hold a boundary. It's, it's hard to know, you know, talking about like letting a kid in bed or not, it's just like kind of hard to know.
In parenting and there's such a high volume of like intense, immediate needs, high frequency, you know, it's kind of hard to sort it out when you also have a job and, and like a house to clean and.
And stuff from your past that comes up to deal with. That's right. I mean, I want to double click on boundaries because this is like, boundaries are my love language. And I think, I think it's of all the different kind of journeys. I feel like I've experienced with parents, like learning what boundaries really are, what they're not, learning how to set them and hold them. Right? Learning what to expect from others in response to your boundaries. Not so secret, secret. Nobody likes when you hold boundaries. Like just because we all have reactions to not getting our own needs met. I do feel like it's so critical in parenting and going back to our own past, so many of us growing up, I know for me, this is true too. So much of how we formed our identity and our worth was kind
of like looking out, noticing what people wanted of us, being good for other people, which is kind of the opposite of boundaries. And so I don't think any of us become moms and think, I'm going to have a hard time when my kid's upset with me. We're like, no, they're my kid. It's like logically, you're like, they're going to be upset with me. But it activates something so much older than, you know, anything about parenting. What is it like for me to be grounded in what I want, even if other people don't want that of me? What is it like for me to get what I want while knowing it inconveniences someone else? Like, these are such old circuits that get activated in such big ways.
I like, I don't actually have trouble with Burt saying that she doesn't like me. She said this this morning. She was like, I don't like you. And I was like, that's okay. Probably the psychoanalysis got me there. I started in 2020. So a couple of years before I got pregnant and I'm like, really glad I did. It helped me with that. I'm not like offended and I'm like, actually so.
You know, I was like a very good kid. I did not, did not rebel very much, really wanted, really focused on what I could give as my worth to my parents, to my family. So I'm like, really, I, I feel accomplished when Bert tells me she doesn't like me. Or, you know, I like daddy, I don't like you. And I'm like, cool. That's okay. That's okay to say. Totally get it. We're still gonna do this thing, you know? That's not like what breaks me. It's honestly, and this is a big part of the sleep, like my ambivalence about separation, my, my separateness. I think I, you know, it's like I,
the heartbreak of how much
love is pumping through me. It's like so heartbreaking. And it's also like, you know, when like, when people who often have given birth before, like the, my friend had this, where like the walls of her uterus were like thin from the first assault of pregnancy and birth. It's almost like the walls of my heart are thin, just pressed. And, and it's like when the Grinch at the end is like, the heart growing three times the size and it breaks that box. And it's like, Bert is now three and a half years old and it's like, really, really outside of the baby era. And my husband and I are like, it's really starting to be like, fuck, this is so painful.
Not even, forget the horrors of the world, just like, it's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking how, I don't know, the deliciousness. And like, I think what I struggle with is like, almost feeling like seen and felt for how much I miss her when I'm leaving today, how much I'm, even though I'm having all these sleep troubles, gonna miss you tonight, while I'm going upstairs. Cause I actually came to love this like lion's den that we shared. And that was actually an extra bunch of hours we could get together if I'm not seeing you during the day.
Yeah. Well, I'm curious if this resonates, or if it's a cousin or not at all related, where I think about moments that have been hard with my kids, where Trying to think of an example. Or again, maybe it's like a power struggle of look, my youngest, I know I'm not going to get him to wear a coat because he's so strong minded and so strong willed. But to me, I want to make sure the coat is just in your backpack. Like you might decide, especially when you're away from me and you don't see that I'm looking at you that you're like, yeah, it's a good day for a coat.
It's 20 degrees. Right? So I'm just like, that's my job is to put it in there.
And I think part of the power struggle is like, maybe on some level, I'm looking for him to say to me, I know you do this from a place of caring and you just love me so much. Like it's, it's laughable. Like he's definitely not going to say that to me. And it sounds cheesy and it doesn't work all the time, but I know that if I do take a moment and say to myself, Becky, I know I'm doing this from a place of care. Right?
It doesn't mean I'm not going to get in a power struggle that morning, but it does help a little.
It eases things from the inside out.
From parent to child.
I know one of the things I struggle with is I do feel like efficiency and relationship building are opposites. Cause I think at night, one of the things, right, that comes up is you're like, I gotta get my kid down. And then, and part of it, not a part of it, all of it, that makes sense for me. There's like this many minutes that I could sit on a couch.
Three kids, I,
Well, especially as my kid gets older, I remember one of my friends saying this to me when their kids were a lot older and it struck me as surprising, even though it's crazy. They're like, when your kids get older, they stay up later and you don't like get those hours back. I was like, I've never considered that. They stay up until 10. It's not like they go to school at nine the next day. Like you just have, they're just occupying more hours.
I think about it all the time. Anyway, go on.
And so at night, you know, and I think especially with one of my kids who is just more oriented towards separation. That's all sleep is. It's separation. We always think so much about how kids separate at school and their routines and how we make them comfortable. That's when they're with students and a teacher.
In a room in the light with toys at night, they're alone in the dark without anyone and they do it for longer than they do during the day. So by the way, I believe kids can learn to sleep independently from a place of capability and resilience and all the good things. So it's not a reason to say kids can't sleep independently, but it's important to understand why they delay with a million stickers. And a couple of days ago, I was talking to my two younger kids and I said to them, I want you to each tell me one thing. That'll be like part of my New Year's resolutions. One thing that you really want me to do differently to be a better parent.
Wow. True strength.
Because I was like, they, they have good feedback, right? That's what we do. But that's what you do in work. 360 degree feedback, right? We take in all input. And my daughter said to me, okay, Mom, I know I always have to do one more thing at night. And she goes, that's just how I am. I'm always gonna have to do one more thing. And I hate that you say to me, like, come on, let's go. You gotta get to bed. And she goes, and that's the last voice I hear before I go to sleep.
Oh, my goodness. Ooh. This child has a full palate, all the colors of emotions that she's able to like, process and communicate to you. It's incredible.
And she's got my number.
Because I think at night,
That is the last voice I hear.
Kids need a little bit extra connection. And I know as an adult, I'm going for a little bit extra efficiency. Can we just shorten this, you know? And it's only been a couple of days since she said that. But I have, I did really take it in. I think one of the things that helps me be less efficient is just Becky, this is like exactly what I should be doing. I have to get hyperbolic. There's nothing more important than this right now. I'm not in such a rush. Like, I don't know what I'm rushing to do, but it always feels like a rush. And like, kind of my relationship, that connection with her, she needs an extra dose to separate, right? And it has been more pleasant, but it's been, it's been challenging. Talk to me a little bit about your journey when you became a mom
around these things that feel not conducive with how we grew up, boundaries, whatever, whatever self-care means to you, how you balance being a caregiver. You have so much love for your daughter. You also have love for yourself when those things feel conflictual, when they don't.
Um, the boundaries thing really goes back to psychoanalysis for me because I'm an analytic person. My relationship with my husband is analytic and we're getting to a point where it's like a little too much. We, we, we were like in a, in a pattern of like analyzing ourselves before one another, analyzing each other. And it's like, we got it. We've been together 12 and a half years. We get it. We get the vibe, the pattern, where it comes from. Think we got it. I literally am like, can we just talk about t-shirts?
Like the best soft t-shirt, like the one that moves the best. I just want to get like granular with stupid shit, please. Cause we're also not like huge TV and movie film watchers. Like we're, um, we literally talk and talk. So, um, so it really is with my, in my analytic practice that I have been like, yeah, just like reparented myself, repartnered myself in a way that's super helpful. And like, I'm like reaching this understanding also with my sleep troubles. I like drew a boundary the other day. I was like, I literally
can't do this. I can't do this anymore. I'm exhausted. It is mentally damaging. My brain is a cotton candy and I can't do this anymore. So I actually, I struggle with boundaries. I want to be super mom. I want to be super mom.
What does that mean?
Um, like for over a year, I've been like getting up every single night and I'm exhausted. And I have a, not full-time job. I have like a career and I've been on tour. I did a 52 show tour, which is, I filmed a stand-up special, Human Magic for Hulu. That's streaming on Hulu right now. I put out a movie, Babes, also on Hulu. Hulu's got my number. And I'm like, how have I not, I, I haven't asked for help and, um, You know, Bert calls mommy and I'm out of bed in, in less than a second, in one half of a
second, I'm mid leap. And it's like, you know, this goes back to really old feelings of hoping that if I take care of others, I will then be taken care of. Almost like a faith system. Right? Like the way that different faiths have like, what is really just superstition, almost like a superstition.
You know? So I really struggle with boundaries and boundaries on myself and I'm harsh.
I want to share two different ways I, I think about boundaries. I personally always like to have the freedom to like define things in a million ways. It's just about what's useful.
Great.
Okay. The first, which has been the most helpful in my boundary journey is just, boundaries are what you tell others you will do, and they require the other person to do nothing.
Because one of the things I think especially from parents, although I hear from adults is, I tell my kid in New York City, not to press all the elevator buttons when we go into the elevator, and they don't respect my boundaries.
That's so annoying. That's crazy.
So annoying.
Oh my God, giving Eloise. Okay.
Right. And if I think about boundaries as boundaries are what I tell my kid I will do, and kind of then their success would require my kid to do nothing, I would kind of say, oh, well, I'm not setting a boundary. I'm not telling my kid what I will do. And the success of it would require my kid not to press the buttons, but if a boundary success should have nothing to do with the other person, then that's not actually a boundary.
It's a request. We make requests of people all the time, but if something really matters to us, our power comes from our boundaries, and we give away our power all the time to like four-year-olds, right? And so this was my son, my youngest. I mean, he has 0% people pleasing in him. Such an inspiration for.
You know, the rest of us. And so triggering, but if it really mattered to me, and he doesn't do this anymore, he's seven, but he was younger, he, he would just be driven by what he wants to do. And you know what's funny? To press all the elevator buttons. It just is objectively
genuinely hilarious.
And so I realized that what I did was either say, look, when we go into the elevator, I'm going to stand between you and the buttons. And even if you lunge, I'm ready. I got my moves. I'm just not gonna, I'm not gonna let you press them.
Holy moly, okay.
And then whether he lunged or not, I could get upstairs, because I was still bigger than him, and be like, I held my boundary. Now, again, he never said, I needed that. Really appreciate you. Such a sturdy leader. Never. They always still try the thing. They whine, they complain. And sometimes the boundary was just, I realized, I don't have to say anything. I could just stand between him and the elevator buttons and get ready and say, like, send him, I'm not gonna let you do that if he tried. And again, I'm setting a boundary. And what I realized with the shift is, first of all, my win was not dependent on my toddler doing anything. It's just so powerless to feel like your wins as a parent are dependent on a very not yet formed human being.
Yep.
Right? My win now was, because I remember talking to my friends about this, is like, I felt really proud about these shifts, even though objectively, someone looking at them would be like, your kid's being difficult. But I was like, oh, no, like, I'm playing the role I need to play. I'm doing me. I know what I'm doing is kind of powerful, embodying my appropriate authority and still being kind of compassionate, because if he can't kind of regulate the urge to press the buttons, I'm not doing him a favor by letting him just do it. Now I'm gonna get frustrated. I'm gonna like yell a threat I'm not gonna follow up with. I need to protect him from his lack of-
It's wacky world also to teach him that this is possible. It's not really possible.
Right, I have to stop him.
Pass the first time.
I remember thinking, I'm not gonna ever let him run into the street.
Right, right.
I wouldn't be like, if you run into the street again, no dessert tonight. I'm just gonna stop him.
I just need to stop him from doing the things that aren't good for him.
And then the other way I think about boundaries is just, especially, maybe this is definitely for kids, but I think about it definitely with adults, is a boundary is a way I'm telling you what I need to continue feeling good about my relationship with you. And so it's a way of preserving- My relationship with you.
Right, that's right.
Right? Like, the reason someone might say to their mother-in-law that like, they just can't pop over, right? Whenever they want is because they actually want to be in a better relationship with their mother-in-law.
That's right.
And not feel resentful.
All the time.
But it's so countered, yes, especially with us as little girls, because you said you were a good girl. I would too. I'd put "good" in quotes because all that means is you don't have desires for yourself.
You don't set boundaries.
You never think about what you need in a relationship.
You're defining it outside in.
Check.
Right. And then we call that being a good girl.
It's messed up.
And it's actually like, not even what femininity is. You know what I mean? As a sort of strong, consuming force of femininity. It's like, that's not even what that is. That's like some, something else. It's, it's some like bizarre part that has been written. And we just are handed a script in so many ways. But I, I really like, love the re, the redefining, you know, additional angle of defining what a boundary is.
Because it kind of goes back to what I'm saying about millennial parenting. And how I feel like millennials, like, there's just a sort of common sense in how forcing other people to be who you want them to be doesn't make sense anymore at many levels, at a parenting level, at a like governmental, national level. Like, it just, large groups, it just doesn't make sense to, it, it's not gonna work to say, "I hate the way you are and you need to change." It doesn't, it doesn't work, you know? And the only thing you can define, I'm finding the mainstream millennial discourse to understand,
is that the only thing you can, um, control is your own boundaries.
Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful.
Thanks for having me.
This was awesome. Many more. Cheers.
Thank you.
Next time with a stool so our feet can...
With stools.
Thank you for listening. To share a story or ask me a question, go to goodinside.com/podcast, or you could write me at [email protected]. Parenting is the hardest and most important job in the world, and you deserve resources and support so you feel empowered and confident for this very important job you hold. I'm so excited to share Good Inside membership. It's the first platform that brings together content and experts you trust with a global community of like-valued parents. It's game-changing and built for a busy parent who wants to make the most out of the few minutes they have. One last thing before I let you go.
Let's end by placing our hands on our hearts and reminding ourselves, even as I struggle and even as I have a hard time on the outside, I remain good inside.
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