Pod Insights The GaryVee Audio Experience The ROI of Pent-Up Demand: Knicks Mania and the Future of Media About this episode In this episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience, I dive into the madness surrounding the New York Knicks' historic run to the NBA Finals. I discuss the market dynamics driving ticket prices and why this is a case study in decades of pent-up demand. I also break down the "Barbell Syndrome" happening in business today: the parallel rise of AI and the exploding demand for live, analog experiences. Finally, we get real about why Fortune 500 companies have begun to focus on cultural relevance and organic social media. You’ll learn about:The Rise of the "Barbell Syndrome" in BusinessHow to Scale Business Results Using Organic Social MediaThe Impact of Pent-Up Demand on Market PricingSelf-Esteem vs. Insecurity in Fan Culture and Life
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Yes, I dislike those kids.
0:01 Speaker 01 That's my son.
0:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, I do not like your son.
0:05 Speaker 00 This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.
0:09 Speaker 02 New York Knicks, they have reached the NBA Finals for the first time since 1999 and shares of Madison Square Garden sports at an all-time high. Joining us right now to discuss Knicks mania and the business around the NBA Finals is Gary Vaynerchuk, VaynerMedia CEO, Vayner ex-chairman. Good morning to you. Before you, when you came in, I said, "Did you get your tickets yet?" You said you haven't locked them in, so what are you going to pay for these things?
0:31 Speaker 00 Whatever the market says I need to pay for them.
0:34 Speaker 02 But have you seen some of the prices?
0:35 Speaker 00 No, I missed it. Of course, I've seen the prices. I mean, first of all, let's talk about how diehard I actually am. I'm going, I'm talking about Oklahoma City and San Antonio. I'm going to game one. I'm flying to game one. So first of all, I'm going to game one, where I have a funny feeling the tickets will be a little bit cheaper.
0:52 Speaker 02 Cheaper.
0:52 Speaker 00 And then, what's that? Maybe, maybe. You know, I'm a Jersey boy from the streets. Don't bougie me up. And yeah, it's fascinating to watch and it really, you know, so much of what you all talk about here, market dynamics, it's interesting to watch play out. When there's that much demand pent up for two and a half, three decades, it's funny and shocking to see how it plays out in price.
1:14 Speaker 02 What's the highest price you've seen so far?
1:16 Speaker 00 I think the last two days, right, was $250,000.
1:18 Speaker 02 I said something like that, yeah. What about all your collectibles?
1:21 Speaker 00 Well, that's been great. I mean, my son and I, brother, others, like the amount of Brunson and Karl-Anthony Towns. I've been buying up Josh Hart's and OG Ananobe's because if this team wins, I mean, we're still talking about a dunk that John Starks made almost 30, you know, years ago, 30-plus years ago, and we didn't even win a title. If this team wins the title, all the collectibles around it go through the roof.
1:43 Speaker 02 Well, that's what I was going to ask. If they win?
1:44 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:45 Speaker 02 It changes everything?
1:46 Speaker 00 Yes.
1:46 Speaker 02 If they lose?
1:47 Speaker 00 You're paying...
1:48 Speaker 02 Do we just go back to, back to the start?
1:50 Speaker 00 I want to remind everybody, all those Knicks that we go crazy for at the Garden, besides Walt Clyde Frazier, none of them won either. You know, getting to the finals, and Mike Francesa said something on sports radio 40 years ago that I'll never forget. He said, "New York loves the Giants, they love the Yankees, but this is a Knicks town." And I think you can really see it play out. There's just something different that happens when the Knicks make a run. And it's, um, it's obviously thrilling to everybody who's actually a diehard.
2:17 Speaker 02 Do you like Jim Dolan now?
2:19 Speaker 00 I never disliked Jim Dolan, truly, truly.
2:22 Speaker 02 Most people in New York City who were Knicks fans thought that this was like one of the most mismanaged teams in the history of basketball.
2:30 Speaker 00 Andrew, I'm not most people, like I'm just really strong and not being overly emotional about things that I don't control.
2:36 Speaker 03 Speaking of heart, who would you prefer, the Knicks, the Spurs?
2:40 Speaker 00 I personally think we match up better with the Spurs.
2:42 Speaker 03 Because of that guy.
2:44 Speaker 00 Honestly, can I tell you why I want to match up with the Spurs? I just don't want to hate SGA.
2:49 Speaker 03 It's impossible.
2:50 Speaker 00 And that's what's gonna happen if we play them. The flippity floppity, like it just will, I mean, you know, and he's a good kid and I like him and like, I just don't want to hate him, but I will hate him. Like, just on the record, at the end of that series, it'll be hate and it will be hate forever.
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3:59 Speaker 01 So, let's just look at records, though. Please. The dig has been that the Western Conference is so much better than the Eastern Conference. Yeah.
4:06 Speaker 01 You cannot argue with the last 11 games that the Knicks won, that the streak that they went on by sweeping both the Cavs and the Sixers is amazing. But if you look at the record for the Knicks versus the Eastern Conference this season, it was 18 and 12. For Oklahoma City versus the Eastern Conference, it was 23 and 7. And for the Spurs, it was 26 and 4. Is the West that much better than the East?
4:28 Speaker 00 The Thunder has definitely been the best team this year. So, you know, I think they are. I mean, we beat the Spurs multiple times this year. Like, we match up with the Spurs. You know, Mitch and Kat know what to do with Wemby in a way that most teams can't match up. That's interesting. And so, you know, this, every single event, every fight, every sporting event, styles make fights, it's matchups, it's also timing. It's also timing. And those two teams, it's very important that San Antonio wins game six. They beat each other up and set us up.
4:57 Speaker 02 Prediction markets, you play?
4:58 Speaker 00 I don't.
4:58 Speaker 02 You don't?
4:59 Speaker 00 You know, it's really funny, I'm sure you, I mean, I know you, excuse me, I consume this. I know you guys talk about this all the time. I think we're in a very interesting time in popular culture where we need more detailed conversations of the difference between investing and gambling.
5:12 Speaker 02 Yep, I agree with that.
5:13 Speaker 00 And so, I don't, I'm not against it. Anybody can do whatever they want, as long as it's legal, go have fun. For me, the way I prediction market is I'd rather go out and buy, you know, a trading card that I think is a collectible and valuable if I think something's gonna happen versus pure gambling. Not that I'm against it, I did plenty of it in my twenties in Vegas, but not, no, I do not.
5:33 Speaker 02 Okay, and as somebody who I think understands media better than most, this is gonna be a big finals in large part because New York's a huge market.
5:41 Speaker 00 The biggest market in the world.
5:42 Speaker 02 This is gonna be huge for NBC, for Peacock. This is actually, this is gonna work for them.
5:47 Speaker 00 Yes, it is.
5:48 Speaker 02 There had been a question about whether they had overpaid for the NBA because regular season ratings don't hold up. People seem to be watching the clips, we love to watch the dunks, we watch it on social, but people are not necessarily willing to sit through two and a half, three hours of a game.
6:03 Speaker 00 Yes, but once again, when we talk about things that are nuanced, but advertisers are buying the media.
6:09 Speaker 02 Right.
6:09 Speaker 00 And obviously, to your point, if the ratings don't sustain, then over time, they won't, but this has been monumentally large for the people that paid up for sports. And let's call it a very important thing that's happening for everybody that's watching. We're going into a barbell syndrome in business and society with extreme AI and extreme digitalization. The rise of analog is exploding. You know, live sporting events, music festivals, AAU tournaments, and run clubs. And so, sports is one of the few things that is a safer bet. And, you know, ratings are also funny. Let's, let's call a spade a spade, like Nielsen ratings is not how Fortune 500s are buying their media anymore.
6:48 Speaker 02 Okay, so how are they buying their media?
6:49 Speaker 00 They're buying their media more and more, thank God, finally, I've been on this show and on the internet for 15 years pushing social media's value. They're looking at views achieved organically, they're looking at cultural relevance, they're looking at association. This network's doing a good job with live event integration. I think they're looking at it a little more holistically than, "Oh, it got a 4.7 last night, let's buy commercials on Seinfeld or MASH."
7:11 Speaker 02 When you look, though, at the numbers on social today, and you see next to a video or a reel or whatever, some number, do you say to yourself, "Someone really watched that?" Or do you say that those, like, right now, by the way, in the news business?
7:24 Speaker 00 Yes.
7:24 Speaker 02 There's a lot of influencers, news folks who've gone to YouTube, and they'll tell you, "Oh, my goodness, look at our numbers, we have millions of people watching." But for whatever reason, they don't seem to have the same cultural relevance, frankly, than people sometimes a segment on linear television will have that looks like it has meaningfully lower ratings.
7:42 Speaker 00 I mean, the way TV measures viewers is definitely more flawed than the way social does.
7:47 Speaker 02 So that's my question, yeah.
7:48 Speaker 00 But to your point, do I think a million views, when a view is counted as three seconds, is a million views? No, I do not. But what I do know is when you take a piece of content on social that gets a million views, and you put media behind it against something that's measurable...
8:04 Speaker 02 Now you're talking about paid media.
8:05 Speaker 00 That's right.
8:05 Speaker 02 Okay.
8:06 Speaker 00 That I can tell you something that gets a million views on social converts better in CAC and LTV and ROAS than something that gets 100,000, which speaks to the most important thing happening in media right now, which is how do views happen? Only if a piece of content is relevant can it get a million views versus 100 views, and relevance leads to consideration and consideration to purchase. So when you understand how to use organic social media first, to then put working media against it, against a business result, now you understand.
8:35 Speaker 02 Okay, what NBA team is doing the best job on social right now?
8:39 Speaker 00 I have no idea.
8:40 Speaker 02 You have no idea? Do you thought the Knicks are doing a great job or not?
8:42 Speaker 00 First of all, there's so much content made by so many people, I'm not even sure if it's the Knicks or Knicks Moose or, you know, Fly Fish Club or what have you, like, you don't know, you know, where it's coming from to some degree. Also, I'm a psycho hardcore fan. Like many people watching right now, our entire equilibrium is off. I'm not my normal version right now. I am completely off-the-rocker excited, and I'm not analyzing the data as well as I normally do. I need two weeks to get through this.
9:06 Speaker 01 Gary, you're old school. You like a team. I would say kids today like players, and they follow players, and they follow them to different teams.
9:13 Speaker 00 Yes, I dislike those kids.
9:15 Speaker 01 That's my son.
9:16 Speaker 00 Yeah, that's my, I do not like your son. What do you want from me? I, I, I, you know what I, but you know what?
9:22 Speaker 01 But they, they were the ones who have the Fire Nico hats.
9:24 Speaker 00 Yeah, listen, I love, listen, let me say who those kids are better than? The kids I grew up with in the 90s. Greg De Tomaso, my friend is watching right now, he grew up in Jersey. Why was he a Bulls fan?
9:34 Speaker 03 Because Michael Jordan was the best player in the history of basketball.
9:38 Speaker 00 Greg was insecure and needed his self-esteem.
9:40 Speaker 03 Greg, I love you.
9:41 Speaker 00 Greg, you needed your self-esteem for something that wasn't you. And so you were a Bulls fan when you should be a Knicks fan. And now, you're not enjoying this moment?
9:50 Speaker 03 I think the final. Okay, I want to thank Greg. Greg, I feel you. I feel you. Right, ABC.
9:55 Speaker 00 Do they get, do ABC get everything? It's ESPN and ABC? You might be right. Not Peacock.
9:59 Speaker 03 Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, ABC.
10:01 Speaker 00 Andrew was talking about the last series.
10:03 Speaker 03 Yes, I was talking about the last series. You had some lean years, my friend.
10:05 Speaker 00 Well, this is the point. You know, one of the things that everyone's crying about ticket prices, right? I'm like, this is 30 years pent up market demand. Nobody was crying when those tickets were being given away two for one when we were winning 17 games. So, you know, the reality is, is that, yes, this is a pent up energy of demand.
10:21 Speaker 03 If I visually don't like seeing some of particular fans, like right on the sideline, should I not hold that against, I shouldn't hold that against.
10:28 Speaker 00 No, you can't, listen, I go the reverse, actually, by the way. Obviously, as a New York fan, I hate all the Boston teams. I actually have a lot of Boston friends. You know what I mean? So, I think you're doing it reverse.
10:38 Speaker 03 Okay.
10:38 Speaker 00 You're mad, you're mad at Knicks fans?
10:40 Speaker 03 Some of them might, there's a couple I don't like.
10:42 Speaker 00 What's that?
10:43 Speaker 01 He doesn't like some of the slants.
10:43 Speaker 03 And I'm not talking about Spike. I'm talking about some of the other ones.
10:46 Speaker 00 Because he thinks that, what, you're a hater?
10:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'm a hater.
10:49 Speaker 00 Deep down? Where does that come from?
10:51 Speaker 03 Try not to be. I try not to be.
10:52 Speaker 00 Now, the real question is, where does that come from? Is that a level of insecurity?
10:56 Speaker 03 I was talking about my shrink yesterday.
10:58 Speaker 00 Was it insecurity? It's always insecurity.
11:00 Speaker 01 Otherwise known as Claude.
11:01 Speaker 03 Otherwise known as Claude.
11:03 Speaker 00 Life is binary.
11:05 Speaker 03 Known as Penelope, known as Scott.
11:07 Speaker 00 Self-esteem insecurity. That's the morning message. Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of the show.
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