The Barbell Effect: Navigating the Future of Extreme AI and Analog

In this episode of the GaryVee Audio Experience, I talk about the massive shifts coming in the next decade: the rise of AI and the return of extreme analog experiences. I encourage you to double down on owning your intellectual property and explain why AI is an accelerator for those who know how to use it. I also discuss the critical need for humility in leadership and why I’m not scared of losing it all. You’ll learn about:The "Barbell" of Digital and AnalogWhy Intellectual Property is Your Best AssetHow to Lead with Emotional Intelligence The Future of Live Social ShoppingWhy Curiosity is the Ultimate Human Muscle

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Let me tell you why you like AI. Humans, forever, for the rest of time, 1,000 years from now, when they look very different, will always choose convenience and will always buy time. This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 1:18Speaker 03

  You're in front of a room where 90% of people can actually pronounce Gennady Alexandritch's name. It's a rarity. Let me give you more details about this room and what we're up to here next four days. We have more than 150 high-level entrepreneurs, founders here, people who know how to build, how to operate, how to scale businesses. But sometimes with business success, it becomes more challenging to find rooms where you can be more transparent, honest, vulnerable about challenges you're facing in a business and find communication that's non-transactional but still useful. And that's what we are building here, a business event, but in a very intentional setting

• 2:03Speaker 03

  on top of community layer. And it seems like lately, people don't want to listen more and more things because it's actually easier to find anything in AI's stuff now. But people have a lot of demand for safe environment. Is this something you observe as well?

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't think anyone here is confused. Like, standard information is a commodity. You know, intelligence, information, is at our fingertips. And now with AI, it's nuanced and contextual. Back to safe environments, I think also to this room, everyone's incredibly aware that there's incredible emotion in society today. There's unprecedented level of judgment. People have always struggled with judgment. But now, so many people live a far more public life than they have in the past, because people are putting themselves out there digitally.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I think safe environments is what all of us have always gravitated to. Normally, that's a mother, or a father, or a best friend, or a spouse. But then, when I think about what's going on here, you know, for so many of us here, when you're an operator, when you've achieved something, for many of us here, when you've achieved something from zero to something meaningful, finding other people that have been through those journeys, dealing with the same things. You know, for a lot of people that come from zero and achieve something, and now they have children who are spoiled, being able to talk to someone else who's going through that same thing, it's a connection.

• 3:49Speaker 02

  And so, yeah, I think safe environments have never been more important. On the flip side, what I also know about this room is, being vulnerable doesn't come as natural to our culture as other places. And so, you know, finding the strength to be able to be vulnerable and tell people in here the truth, not half the truth, is a challenge for a lot of people. But I think when people get over the hump, and that's why, one of the reasons I'm here, is supporting events like this, because this is a rarity. I know you know that. And I'm happy to be here.

• 4:34Speaker 03

  Appreciate it.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  You've personally navigated through massive paradigm shifts simultaneously. Why, having massive pressure on you, you're running huge, the largest independent media company in the United States, almost 3,000 employees, offices from Singapore, London, Manhattan. During the same time when AI reshaped content creation, media, algorithms. You also run another company, we will touch on that later, that built partially on a layer of digital collectibles, while blockchain regulations are not clear still yet. So how do you personally operate during times of constant change, pressure, format,

• 5:23Speaker 03

  and keeping focus and clarity?

• 5:27Speaker 02

  This is so special for me to be with all of you, because there's a real answer to this question that most people would not understand, but I think many of you will.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  The way I navigate through all the turmoil is because I'm not scared to go back to Babrusk and live in a little shed. You know, I don't know, again, I don't know everyone's story here, but there are two versions of people that come from very little and achieve success. The ones that get there and become scared to ever go back, and the ones that have absolutely no fear to go back. I'm in the second group. My ability to navigate everything I navigate is because I'm not scared to lose everything. Because I don't think everything is money and notoriety. I think everything is health and my family.

• 6:24Speaker 02

  And I appreciate that. And I will say, I also don't judge the people in this room that aren't in that place. In fact, I'm compassionate and empathetic for the people that are not in that place. I also understand not being in that place, you know? But for me, I have no interest in success to buy fancy things or do fancy things. The only reason I do what I do for a living is because it is my favorite game. You know, I don't want to be successful to go golfing, or to go sailing, or to buy a boat, or to go fishing, or to go hiking, or to go to a sporting event.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  I don't want what this game of entrepreneurship can get for me. I want the game of entrepreneurship.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  So, you know, so to explain, I mean, you saw what I'm doing in there, I'm working. Like, I have 3,000 employees in just one of my eight most meaningful companies that's global. Like, five minutes before I came here, I'm literally texting with people about problems.

• 7:40Speaker 02

  Right? Like, you all know this. The more that happens, the more problems you have. Right? Like, it's not complicated. So, but, but a lot of us in this room like the problems.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  You know, some people are just firefighters. I like to fight fires. I like to play the game. So, I don't even know how to live any other way.

• 8:05Speaker 03

  I like your full concept of, you call it "practical optimism", you just said.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I'm incredibly optimistic. My mother is incredibly optimistic. My father is incredibly cynical. Hey, everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast, that's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. You know, how many people here have very opposite parents, positive and negative? Just by show of hands? Raise your hands if you're one of those people. So, for 20%, 30% of this room, you know, maybe at this point in your life, maybe you don't know, it's a huge advantage to have two very opposite parents. Because you can see the world completely. And so, I've been successful because

• 8:54Speaker 02

  I have incredible optimism. I have my mother's DNA, plus she raised me, so it was compounded. But, I can't see the world without hearing my father's voice that is incredibly classic Soviet. You know, "Everybody's fucking you", "Everyone's stealing", "Everything's bad", "Everything's fucked up", "Everything's a conspiracy theory". So, it's impossible for me to be delusional.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  But inherently, I'm optimistic. And so I call it practical optimism because I always am optimistic. I'm always hopeful. The other thing is, I'm also very fortunate that I lack what many have, which is insecurity. So it's very easy for me to give to people because if someone fucks me, I don't care.

• 9:44Speaker 02

  I mean, if someone fucks my father, he hates them for life. For me, I don't see it that way.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  I'm glad we touched on that. You always have a lot of practical optimism to borrow for the whole room. I want to touch on another passion of yours, intellectual property.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  Before that, you wanted to acquire previous intellectual property and flip it. That's really fascinating idea as well. But recently, you created your own company. And while operating many businesses, you call this specific company potentially your legacy company.

• 10:21Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 10:23Speaker 03

  Can you tell our audience what is intellectual property? Why you have so much conviction in that? And introduce us to be friends as well.

• 10:30Speaker 02

  So for everyone here, you know, especially given the talent in this room and looking around the room, I can even sense many people in this room are going to have another one or two or three businesses in their life. I cannot push you harder for intellectual property. I'm sure this room is fairly educated enough to know what's going on with AI. And I have a funny feeling you all know this is not going to stop today. It's just going to keep going. If you play out the chess of AI, one of the few things for sure that will be left and quite lucrative is owning intellectual property. Whether that's your masters on music

• 11:12Speaker 02

  or whether that's the image and likeness of characters or stories. For everyone in this room who's creative, and I'm very creative, but no one really knew that publicly for a long time because that's not what I was talking about. But behind the scenes, creativity... Ideas, stories come very natural to me. It's why I'm a good communicator. So, I couldn't push more of you. I hope I inspired just one person here. That if you've had a character in mind, or a idea, or a story, or a movie, to really create it. Uh, I created V Friends 5 years ago because I wanted to create something that looked like Disney, that looked like Pokemon. I mean Pokemon is worth 90 billion dollars.

• 11:58Speaker 02

  You know, and it's fun. And so, you know, another thing that does not come very natural to our part of the world. I think grownups do not have enough joy, do not laugh enough, do not act youthful enough. And so, 5 years ago, when I saw that the blockchain was starting to get to a place where I thought consumers could start understanding it a little bit. Um, because I was very active in the blockchain in 2014, 15, Ethereum, Bitcoin. But as you know, because you know my content, I didn't speak about it often. You could find a talk here and there. Because I don't like talking about things that I don't think are ready.

• 12:40Speaker 02

  Um, but when I thought it was ready, 5 years ago, I created this universe. You're right, for anybody, uh, who knows what Scooby Doo is, or, you know, Care Bears, or Transformers.

• 12:52Speaker 03

  Nupagadi.

• 12:53Speaker 02

  What's that? Yeah, exactly. You know, those were the things I was thinking about. Things that used to be important, cartoons, uh, characters, Casper the Friendly Ghost, Woody Woodpecker. I wanted to buy one of them for 100 million, 50 million, and refurbish it, make movies, toys, collectibles. But when the blockchain was ready, I made my own universe. Thank you so much, I see the characters at the table, you know, and so... But honestly, as much as I'd love for you all to learn and collect V Friends, what would be much more interesting is if one of you here is very creative. Your whole life have been thinking about a character, or a story, or an idea.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  I could not push you harder right now to do it. Because owning intellectual property is one of the very good businesses of the next 25 years.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  So AI is stealing our jobs and fictional characters stealing our businesses.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  No, I think AI is, at least for the next decade, is exposing the truth. You know, I think what AI is gonna do in the next decade is gonna be very beneficial to a lot of people here. I think AI is an incredible exposor of the people that are actually creating the value versus the people that are a small piece of the process and are a commodity. And I think AI is gonna eat up in the short term. It's very hard to predict how far this can go in a 10, 15-year period. But at least for the next five or so years, I think AI is the accelerator of the most strategic and the most creative.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  And I think a lot of us in this room will benefit greatly professionally. However, everyone of us also needs to be prepared for AI to kill us and our businesses. And that's a very interesting relationship. Because when the internet did that in the late 90s, it took a long time. If the internet was gonna kill you, like a bookstore with Amazon in 1996, it took seven to 10 years. AI can take 17 months and kill you. And so we all have to be prepared for how fast this new game is. And I'm very prepared. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about both extremes. This could be the great, you know, look at V Friends.

• 15:19Speaker 02

  I can make a V Friends movie that looks like Pixar in 24 months for a couple hundred thousand dollars. That would've cost me 90 million dollars to make. On the flip side, VaynerMedia, my 400 million dollar a year agency, we make most of our money by making content. That's a problem. So, you know, just living life.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  So whether AI takes me to the moon, right? Like our astronaut here, where is she? There she is. Or if AI takes me back to Babrusk, I'm ready for either.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 16:25Speaker 00

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• 16:40Speaker 03

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• 16:57Speaker 03

  You also have been talking a lot lately about rise of so-called analog business. Why so? And what specific formats of businesses, communities, events you think are underrated now and might have momentum in the near future?

• 17:11Speaker 02

  I'm very excited for a lot of you about this. So I've been talking about something called the barbell. Extreme digital, AI, more social, more digital, more digital, more digital. But what it's creating is the beginning of analog. Analog. Bougie coffee shops, drive-in movie theaters. Look what we're doing right now. If you pay attention to Gen Alpha, 12, 13, 14-year-olds, some of you may have children in that age, they saw what they're... Older siblings have dealt with with digital and they're pushing back a little bit. They don't want smartphones as much, they're asking for dumb phones, right?

• 17:55Speaker 02

  You're seeing this, if you look at the data around concerts and sporting events and golf and bowling and pickleball, it's very clear to me that over the next 10 years, what are we in 2026? I think in a 20-year window, in 10 years it'll be 2036, but I think it's gonna feel more like 2066. I think the technology's gonna be very fast now, but I also think that people are gonna be acting more and more like 1966. So I think this next 10 years is gonna push us into extreme digital and extreme analog.

• 18:37Speaker 02

  And in that is incredible opportunity. If, you know, if we start going into more four-day work week, now you have three days of leisure. If we're so efficient that we could be done at 3 o'clock because our agentic agents are doing our work, what are we doing from 3 o'clock to 10 p.m.? And so I think there's incredible business opportunity in the real world. I have a restaurant group that's going very well. We've got about 7, 10 restaurants. The next restaurant, I'm obviously more like the chairman, not the active day-to-day. I'm pushing my group to open a restaurant where when you walk in,

• 19:18Speaker 02

  you have to put your phone in a locker and then you have to go sit at communal tables. I think this is coming. I can see even by some of you, we know it, we can feel it, it's coming. And when you know something's coming and it's still not here, that's when there's money to be made.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Basically subconsciousness push to the extreme digitalization and it's already happening.

• 19:42Speaker 02

  You know this because you know my content, the number one thing I believe in, number one is humans. We are the most adaptable ever. Everyone's like, "Oh, this is gonna kill us." That's what they've been saying for 17 trillion years. You know, we are so adaptable that we are sensing what's coming with AI. And so we're starting already in our actions to do things that are analog. And I think it's gonna be beautiful. I actually think it's very interesting to live in that kind of world. Right? The incredible advancements of what AI can do in effectiveness, efficiency, output, innovation. But then the disconnect. And I think the last 10 years, we've been closer to the digital stuff.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  And that's why people feel burnt out and things of that nature. And I think you can see the early signs.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  Thank you. Great stuff. Let's open up to the questions, please. I know a lot of people here.

• 20:37Speaker 04

  First of all, let's clap your hands. Thank you for this introduction. Okay, guys.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  Let me also say real quick, I apologize. On the questions, obviously, we just talked about what we talked about. I also know that I've been putting out content for 20 years. And some of you have seen some of that or have different businesses and questions. I'm thrilled to talk about anything, not just what was talked about between Konstantin and I. So please, and thank you for having me. What's your name, my friend?

• 21:04Speaker 05

  Max.

• 21:05Speaker 02

  Max.

• 21:06Speaker 05

  Have you been bankrupt in your life?

• 21:08Speaker 02

  Have I been bankrupt in my life? No, sir.

• 21:11Speaker 05

  Okay, thank you.

• 21:11Speaker 04

  Okay, I had a guy. Thank you.

• 21:16Speaker 02

  I do wanna build on that question, because it's a great question by Max. Can I tell you why I've never been bankrupt?

• 21:24Speaker 02

  I've never... You know, it's very funny, Max. A lot of people think I do very high-risk behavior. And I do by standards. But I've never bet everything, and I've always lived within my means. From 22 to 34 years old, I never made more than $60,000 a year. But I lived like I was making $25,000 a year. Right? So I've never been bankrupt because it's back to being very practical. And I don't think business is gambling.

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Oh, I've been broke. I was... I mean, when I started VaynerMedia at 34 years... My father... I built my father's business from $3 to $65 million a year. Worked at his business 100 hours a week, and he paid me $60,000 a year.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  So, it depends on what you define as broke, right? But when I started VaynerMedia, my biggest company, have I ever been up and down? No, because I don't gamble. You know? I invest and I build. I don't tend to do things that I think have a high chance of not succeeding and put too much in. So, everything's been kind of more like that. You know, I went through a divorce, so, you know, so there's that part. But, no, my behavior doesn't speak to... It's more, I'm a marathon runner, more than a gambler.

• 22:54Speaker 04

  Okay, thanks so much. Okay, next question, please.

• 22:57Speaker 06

  Hi.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Hi.

• 22:58Speaker 06

  Can I ask in Russian?

• 22:59Speaker 04

  Uh, yes, you can speak Russian.

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:01Speaker 04

  I'll translate.

• 23:02Speaker 02

  Я понимаю.

• 23:03Speaker 04

  Чуть-чуть.

• 23:04Speaker 06

  Супер.

• 23:05Speaker 02

  No, говорить чуть-чуть, понимаю?

• 23:06Speaker 04

  Some people in our audience doesn't speak Russian.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  What's your name?

• 23:09Speaker 06

  Меня зовут Анна. Здравствуйте. Я очень восхищаюсь вами и тем, что вы делаете. Мой вопрос: если бы у вас было всего 30 секунд, чтобы дать самый важный совет человеку, кто только начинает развивать свои социальные сети, что бы вы ему сказали?

• 23:24Speaker 02

  Life is a self-aware game, right? Like, at the end of the day, like, the number one thing you need to do is this: You need to play for you, not for anyone else. The second you understand that, everything is possible. Does that make sense?

• 23:42Speaker 04

  I'll translate it later for her. It's okay.

• 23:44Speaker 06

  Можно еще один спросить?

• 23:47Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 23:48Speaker 04

  She asked if she can have one more question.

• 23:50Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, of course.

• 23:51Speaker 06

  Еще, Гарри, вы руководите просто огромной медиа-империей. Скажите, пожалуйста, какие ИИ вы сейчас внедряете в команду, чтобы каждый сотрудник был максимально эффективным? И каких сотрудников вы уже заменяете на ИАй?

• 24:02Speaker 02

  Okay, это я не понимал.

• 24:04Speaker 04

  So, I mean, in the world of AI, which AI you specifically use in your businesses?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  I say.

• 24:11Speaker 04

  And maybe you already use some AI to replace some of the boring human in your business?

• 24:16Speaker 02

  And the number one thing, yes, I mean, there's definitely, I mean, I don't know. So, a couple of things. Replace is not even where I'm thinking. I just had a meeting with all 3,000 of my employees in the marketing company. And I told all of them, I have no interest in replacing any of you, because I'm going to be competing with companies that have people and AI. I'm gonna, AI is not going to replace you. People that use AI, when you don't use AI, is going to replace you. So, but for me personally, my OpenClaw is my life now. How many people here are using OpenClaw? Like, for the people that raise their hands, we know.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  It's fucking harnesses, personal computer, agentic, I mean, it's absurd what's going on with me and my OpenClaw. We're going to fucking dominate the world. And so, obviously, I use everything that any normal, modern human is using, whether that's Claude, or OpenAI, or Gemini. But the OpenClaw, the harness, the personal computer, that's the step everyone in this room is going to take in the next 24 months that is going to open up unprecedented opportunity.

• 25:31Speaker 04

  Thank you so much.

• 25:32Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  Открытая кришня, в общем.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  Okay, next question.

• 25:36Speaker 04

  Ну давай по-русски, раз.

• 25:38Speaker 05

  Exactly what, exactly. Вопрос такой: я из Дубая, переехал сюда, у нас сейчас два стартапа. Есть одна проблема. Когда ты делаешь большой проект, русские любят такие проекты. Большой инфраструктурный проект плюс концепция. Той местные инвентарь, да, которые здесь принимают решения, они сфокусированы на узкой проблеме. Они не понимают, что есть концепция, но все единороги, все большие компании строили инфраструктуру и эксистенты.

• 26:08Speaker 03

  Возьмите Apple, возьмите другие компании. Они все большие деньги сделали на больших экосистемах. Но когда я прихожу сюда на вечер, мне говорят: "Это очень широко", я вынужден брать только часть проблемы, показывать первую, второму показывать вторую, неужели никто нет? Или нужно искать долга своего инвестора, который может понять полную картину, да? Вот такой вопрос.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Делать того, кто сразу все бабки даст.

• 26:31Speaker 03

  Не, не в этом проблема. Стоит ли искать его или все-таки разделять? Divide it all?

• 26:36Speaker 02

  I got most of it, but I wanna make sure I don't lose it.

• 26:38Speaker 04

  I mean, he said like sometimes he has a project with a

• 26:42Speaker 02

  Big idea, yeah?

• 26:42Speaker 04

  Big scale idea, but the venture investors, they try to focus him on something smaller.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Makes sense.

• 26:49Speaker 04

  Divide it in a smaller problem. Should he like keep fighting one like big investor for the whole problem or divide it?

• 26:58Speaker 02

  Couple things that I think about. Number one. When you're asking for money, you're not in control.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  Right? So if you're asking investors to give you money, you see, you know, what's that Russian saying about whoever pays for the music gets to pick the song?

• 27:16Speaker 04

  Yes, exactly.

• 27:16Speaker 02

  Right?

• 27:17Speaker 04

  Тота тансуит.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  That's right. So you're asking investors for money. They're gonna, they're always, if you're the big thinker, they're a fucking investor. Right? They're not the innovator. They're not the operator. They're not the dreamer. They're always gonna wanna make you go smaller. You have two choices. Keep asking more people for money that see your vision or accept the truth of the smaller project and then once you have the money, do the bigger project.

• 27:46Speaker 04

  Может подкинь монетку и поймешь.

• 27:52Speaker 04

  Okay, next question.

• 27:54Speaker 04

  Hello Gary. We have PRIX Studio. It's Dubai Chocolate.

• 27:57Speaker 02

  Very nice. Thank you, brother.

• 27:59Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Thank you, my friend.

• 28:01Speaker 04

  Bribe is always welcome.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Always. Like a true Russian, you never come without a gift. Hello Gary. How are you? I completely agree with you that these like legacy protection systems are currently the best.

• 28:20Speaker 03

  Bet against the AI. And why I call them legacy protection? Because I'm afraid that governments or just market practices could take them away. I mean IP protection, I mean patents, I mean trademarks and copyrights.

• 28:38Speaker 02

  And you know, there's some parts of the world that don't honor the protection now.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. And currently, I bet, I bet against AI with my IP.

• 28:52Speaker 03

  And I completely agree with you that this is my competitive advantage here.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  And, and you will be able to use AI to enhance your IP.

• 29:02Speaker 03

  Sure, sure. But at the same time, currently, for example, Apple and Google, and especially Apple. If I, if I come to Apple with my patent, they, they just take away any, any competitors that infringe our patents. So there is no problem there. But I'm afraid that one day, these legacy systems could, could leave us and then we're done. Basically, entrepreneurship is not awarded. And like these first initiative is not awarded with.

• 29:41Speaker 02

  The upside?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, with the market, market rewards, basically. What do you think about that? And should we be afraid of that? That governments and corporations do not protect us?

• 29:54Speaker 02

  What's your name?

• 29:54Speaker 03

  My name is Alex.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Alex, I think you're too scared.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, so basically, don't, don't be afraid of going from 100 to nothing.

• 30:05Speaker 02

  Alex, let me, let me break it down for you.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Sure.

• 30:08Speaker 02

  If what you just said happens.

• 30:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  And let's just say, America has gotten to a place where corporations have so much power that they're able to not have to conform to the law. You're gonna worry about a lot more things than your business idea.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Sure, I'm afraid that law changes.

• 30:33Speaker 02

  You're afraid of what?

• 30:34Speaker 03

  That law changes.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  Yes, I understand that. I'm gonna say it again. If law changes to that,

• 30:42Speaker 02

  which is an unprecedented shift in American history, that we are now going to reward a couple of corporations and de-incentivize millions and tens of millions and hundreds of millions of human beings, you're gonna be worried about a lot more than business, my friend.

• 31:04Speaker 02

  Alex, it's important what I'm saying to you. The number one reason most people don't achieve what they want in life, happiness, financial, is because of fear. Is politicians and leaders have become very good at weaponizing fear.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  You need to stop being so scared.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 31:33Speaker 04

  So next question for actually another our speaker you will see later today, Oscar Hartman, yes?

• 31:39Speaker 03

  Yes, I'm Oscar, thank you very much. I have a university and I see some scary stuff. Brothers and sisters that grow up together but don't know each other. So my question is about attention. Parents don't get attention from their kids, kids don't get attention from their parents. The latest statistic is that best friends, whoever you consider your best friend in life, you spend on average now less than eighty hours per year together.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  So my question is about companions, AI companions. What is your, like, nobody gives nobody attention. Yesterday, we had this game where we just gave each other five minutes attention. Everybody felt like...

• 32:20Speaker 02

  It was hard work.

• 32:23Speaker 03

  So my latest investment is an AI co-founder. A lot of solo founders now, so do you think... That people will value the attention. You get infinite attention from an AI companion, right? Like.

• 32:37Speaker 02

  The answer to your question is what I talked about.

• 32:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:39Speaker 02

  I think you're, I think you're right. But I think there is a breaking point. I believe in it, but I'm, I, I need everyone to hear this. Oh, there's a simple framework I have that has been very successful for me. That I would like to challenge all of you to debate. Curious if this is how you see it, if you see it differently. I am obsessed in what I'm about to say. I believe most people on earth overvalue or this or that. And I know it's and, this and that. We are spending all of our time of like, it's all this, it's all that, it's or, or, or, it's and.

• 33:21Speaker 02

  I believe that in seven years, based on what I just said about the barbell analog and extreme. I predict in 10 years that all of us will have meaningful relationships with an AI companion. But that our elevation of having real life time together will actually go up from today, not down.

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Okay. Do you have feelings for your open claw?

• 33:45Speaker 02

  I don't. I, I, I don't because I don't.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  Yet.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  I, yet, but I will tell you why I don't have feelings for my AI agents. I do not use my AI agents for therapy and most people do.

• 33:59Speaker 03

  Okay. But Gary, you still call it a chatty, I heard it.

• 34:03Speaker 02

  Yes, I call it chatty, yeah, of course. But like, I do that a little bit for show. If I'm being honest, I do that for show. I don't even, if you notice, I've stopped doing it in my content. Cause at the time I was trying to show people like you can build a relationship, but I, I, I do not use, I have not put one prompt, not one prompt. In four years, I've been pretty active three years. Not one prompt around something personal. I have not needed it for that. You know, I, I, this is a strength and a weakness. I want to be vulnerable. I normally am in my own head with myself with most of my emotions.

• 34:46Speaker 02

  In the last five to seven years, I've become better in communicating with my partner or my parent or my employee or my sibling if I'm having a conflict. And I'm also very open, especially with my wife, to use therapy if I need it. So I think the reason people feel quite emotional towards their AI is a lot of people are using it for therapy. A lot of people are also using it to validate their feelings. One of the reasons people love their AI agent is your AI agent gives you positive reinforcement. You're right, Susan, your husband's an asshole.

• 35:29Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm not looking for validation from anyone, let alone an AI companion. My wife put our entire chat history in ChatGPT. And asked him, who's right? And it's, and who, and, and you know what's so funny? And if you did the same thing, both of you would be right. And that's the problem right now.

• 35:51Speaker 04

  Let's just then talk to each other, these two chats. So guys, until you send your dick pic to your AI, you're good. Okay, go ahead.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  Hi Gary. Good to see you again. My name is Aitor. Yes. I have a question. The world is so saturated right now and we have so many things. What is something that young generation is focusing on that will not matter in five to 10 years? Everything. You know, that's just a common flight of man and woman. Almost nothing matters, my friend. The sooner, you, how old are you? I'm 18. Beautiful. The sooner you understand that, if this is the moment, you understand that absolutely nothing matters, except love and health and your family, you will win.

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Thank you. You're welcome.

• 36:36Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 37:06Speaker 07

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 37:39Speaker 02

  Hey Gary. Yeah, we briefly spoke about the analog business. Yes. I hope everyone, when they go to Naples, Florida, goes to your coffee shop. Yeah. So my question is, you just shared the idea that in the future, in the next 10 to 20 years, there's going to be big advancement in AI and also in analog businesses, right? So my question is, do you think that those analog businesses are actually going to be like big tech companies underneath? So in the front, they're going to have like great customer experience and the product, something, but everything of that is going to be powered by AI and tech? Some, some. Again, I think, let's look at this beautiful place we're at. I think there's going to be

• 38:23Speaker 02

  a big rise of people going to places like this that will not be tech empowered. But then let's talk about your business. You may know this because you're smart. There's coffee shops in China that are fully tech-enabled, that are coming to the US, that have a huge advantage and are very dangerous to Starbucks. Maybe not to you because you're going very high-end, but I think it's going to be both. I'm just thinking like, there's going to be like, I'm investing into experience and the product.

• 38:51Speaker 05

  Not trying to cut that off.

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  But at the same time, like, developing ideas on like, how can I use AI more? Or maybe develop some of the things that's gonna just increase the experience of the clients that come in.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  Look, let me tell you why we like AI. Let me tell you why you like AI. Humans, forever, for the rest of time, a thousand years from now, when they look very different, will always choose convenience. And will always buy time.

• 39:23Speaker 02

  Right? So of course, the customer experience, if I go into a very high-end coffee shop, and I love everything about it, that makes me wanna pay three times what I would pay somewhere else, but it takes me a long time to get my coffee, you're dead.

• 39:38Speaker 02

  So, you're going to use, right? You're gonna use technology. Now, maybe we go so extreme that I pay more for waiting.

• 39:47Speaker 02

  I'm being serious, this is worth debating. Noticed how you did the exercise for five minutes and everyone's like, "Fuck, this is hard." We may go so far, that we may go reverse. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're gonna pay to slow down.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  Right? We know we do that with meditation and escapism and all that. I don't know if we'll do it for the mundane day-to-day, where we'll be excited to be in line for 13 minutes. I don't know, but, technology is undefeated, Vitali. Technology is undefeated. It never goes backwards. So, it's an inevitable. Consumer behavior, social norms, they ebb and flow. And so that's how I'm thinking about it.

• 40:32Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 40:38Speaker 03

  Hey Gary.

• 40:39Speaker 02

  Hey brother.

• 40:40Speaker 03

  My name's Mike, I co-founded Manichat, and I think that some of your creators use us for Instagram automation. I had one question. What is the one question that founders are not asking you, that you wish that they actually did, that you think that they should have asked you?

• 40:57Speaker 02

  I think most founders, that are very sharp, very smart, don't ask enough questions about managing people.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  It is staggering to me watching some of the best companies in Silicon Valley through the last 25 years fail because of the leader's lack of humility, because of the leader's lack of emotional intelligence, because of the leader's inherent selfishness.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  I remember, you know, this is a funny Soviet story. My father had a small liquor store. I started working there when I was 14. And we lived 45 minutes from my dad's store when we moved in high school. So, we drove there, worked all day, drove back. I, as maybe you can tell, especially if you know my content, I like to talk. My father doesn't talk at all. And so, I would talk, talk, talk, and then back, talk, talk, talk, and talk. One day, my dad, when he did talk, it tended to be complaining or being negative. Back to how his DNA and how he grew up. He told me that, you know, I was talking about,

• 42:13Speaker 02

  we had seven employees. We're a small liquor store. I was talking about the good things about our employees. And it was bothering him, which made me want to do it more, Mike. And then, he said, "You know what, though?" He goes, "None of them work as hard as me." I was 16 years old. I will never forget this day in my whole life. I looked at my father and said, "Why the fuck would they work as hard as you? It's your business."

• 42:41Speaker 02

  Owners are very interesting to me. Operators, founders. They have audacity. I think they lack humility on the human element. They ask questions about maximizing their product, product-market fit, go-to-market strategy. They do not spend anywhere close to enough time on understanding that the top three people that are around them will trickle down. They don't think about human design, the emotional frameworks, how it really works, how real life works. And I think, any founder here, if you're unable to keep retention of your best people, you will always be vulnerable. And so that's what I wish they would ask more about.

• 43:26Speaker 03

  Thank you so much.

• 43:27Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 43:27Speaker 03

  I love that you have Chief Heart Officer role in your company.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, for VaynerX, the 3,000-person marketing company, there's me. And I didn't realize this because I came from the family liquor business and then I went into this part of my career and now I have a corporation. I didn't realize in corporations that the CFO was actually the boss.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  I thought the CEO was.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  And I didn't realize that HR, I thought HR was for the people. I didn't realize that employees hated HR. They were scared of HR. They were there to do the dirty work. So in my company, I created a new title called Chief Heart Officer, Claude. She's the head of HR. She has more power than the CFO. And it has been fundamental to who we are as a corporation.

• 44:27Speaker 06

  Hi Gary, my name is Vlad. I'm running digital advertising agency. And I have a question for you as for marketing agency owner. My main focus, my main services now is Facebook, Google, Instagram advertising. And it's exactly what you did 20 years ago. And I feel that it's pretty outstanding. So outdated, sorry, outdated. And my main question is for you, what is in your opinion number one service?

• 45:05Speaker 02

  I'll give you three.

• 45:07Speaker 06

  Maybe three is better than one.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  I'll give you three things that I would add.

• 45:10Speaker 06

  And the same number one value for client, for me it's the same.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Heard. Number one value is still what you're doing. Whoever knows how to do the best content organically, and whoever knows how to use paid media against the winners in organic, is still the number one way to really dominate marketing today. Value. The three things you should be building that I think will help you grow a lot, that will become more and more valuable. Bless you. Number one is what I just talked about analog. Experiential. Being a production company as an agency to do live events for clients. It's going to grow a lot. Number two.

• 45:58Speaker 02

  Making content for the sole purpose of showing up organically in G E O and A E O and winning the L L Ms to show up in the results for your clients in Claude and Chat G P T and Gemini. Number three. Becoming a strategist and production company and creative agency to do live social shopping services for your clients. One of the most interesting things all of you should be paying attention to as entrepreneurs and investors is live social shopping. Whatnot TikTok shop selling product on social media

• 46:41Speaker 02

  that looks like Q V C and Home Shopping Network is one of the most important things. In China this year, it will be one trillion dollars in G M V of products sold through live shopping. It's exploding in America and Europe. I could not push you more to know what's going on with TikTok shop and whatnot. Meta is about to do it, so it's going to show up on Instagram and Facebook. And then Google is going to do it and it's going to show up on YouTube. Humongous opportunity. Those three services you add while you're still doing what you're doing, you'll be in a nice spot for the next three to five years. Thank you so much. You're welcome.

• 47:20Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 47:24Speaker 06

  Hello, my name is Maria. I just want to thank you for a wonderful presentation and wonderful speech with Konstantin and sharing all the insights with us today. You mentioned that you still believe in humans. And we talked a lot about technology today, and I'm sure everybody now discusses technology most of the time. But I want to dive deeper into human being side and ask your advice, what are humans, what muscle we as humans need to train nowadays?

• 47:57Speaker 02

  What should we train in?

• 47:58Speaker 06

  Yes, I mean, like, it can be mental muscle or physical one?

• 48:04Speaker 02

  It's a really good question, actually, Maria. One of the things that I'm really passionate about, that I would like to challenge all of you to think about, is I believe one of the most substantial places we could all go as humans is to start to tap much more into our curiosity.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  I think curiosity is a word that I would elevate very high in your life. How many people here feel they're inherently curious? Raise your hands. Makes sense, right?

• 48:37Speaker 02

  One more time, "I'm just curious," one more time would say they're inherently curious? Yeah, it makes sense. I think there's a much bigger correlation to business and even life success around curiosity than the world talks about. If you think about where we're going with AI and the information being commoditized, it is the prompting and the input that becomes incredibly valuable. One of the ways to stand out and be distinct in this next 36, three to six years, is coming at things from different angles, from a prompting framework, whether it's creative or strategic.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  The way to actually be unique is to inherently be curious and go down paths that have not been formed yet by others. So I think curiosity is very, very large, but it's very funny you asked this question after I just made that thing for Mike about, you know, founders. It is very clear to me that in the next decade, the humans that are accelerating in emotional intelligence are going to outperform the ones that are not.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  It is going to be around leadership, humanity, the ability to retain people because of who you are as a person. I think it's very fascinating. I think we're in society right now where being a nice person seemingly seems less valuable than ever. And I think it's very clear to me that it's emerging as the most important thing going forward. And that makes me unbelievably emotionally optimistic. And I know that a lot of you may not see it or even agree with me right now. But I have a funny feeling you'll be emailing me in seven years asking me how I saw that.

• 50:28Speaker 06

  Thank you so much.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 50:33Speaker 04

  Hi Gary, I'm Alex.

• 50:34Speaker 02

  Alex, first of all, your coat is awesome, bro.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Thanks so much, thank you. I've been working with robotics for the next last decades or so. And you've been right on the digital arena for a long time. Even when a lot of people doubted you way, way before. So I've seen a lot of investment going into robotics right now, specifically humanoids. And with the intent of replacing what humans do.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 50:55Speaker 04

  I know that's not what people see publicly, but in my world, that's what we're doing.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  That's exactly what's happening.

• 51:00Speaker 04

  We are, we're creating machines that will exponentially do everything that we can do much better than we can. So is this a trend for you? How do you see that movement and how that fit into the analog and digital world?

• 51:12Speaker 02

  First of all, I think it's inevitable. You know, to me, that's like we had horses and now we have cars. Couple of things, so is it a threat? Everything's a threat and everything's an opportunity for everyone here.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  When the tractor was invented, a shocking amount of people worked on farms. So is it a threat? Sure, you know this better than I do. I'm trying to pay attention, you're in it. I think there's a couple of things. Timing. Right? Affordability. Scale. You know, I have been right a lot. But when I was a kid, thank God I wasn't making videos when I was a kid. When I launched WineLibrary.com in 1997, if I was making content, I would have made videos that said, "By the year 2000, all of you are gonna buy everything on the internet." I didn't understand timing. So I think, you know, I ask you back.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  When do you, when I, you know, you heard what I said. When it gets to scale? When it gets to affordability? Obviously, there'll be B2B, and then there'll be B2C. It'll be a progress. When's your prediction that humanoids are at enough scale that we're feeling extraordinary social and financial impact of that scale? What's your guess?

• 52:37Speaker 04

  Forty-eight to sixty months.

• 52:38Speaker 02

  What's that?

• 52:39Speaker 04

  Four to five years.

• 52:40Speaker 02

  Four to five years.

• 52:40Speaker 04

  It's mostly depend of five challenges that we have right now. A lot of them to do with running a language model on a machine.

• 52:45Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 52:46Speaker 04

  That's one challenge. Another one is material engineering. Processing power is not a problem anymore. Data collection. And we don't have younger people to work on this as we have in digital world right now because we outsource a lot of this to China.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Here's how I look at it.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  Would you buy one?

• 53:00Speaker 02

  Would I buy one?

• 53:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. Are you intending to buy one?

• 53:02Speaker 02

  I couldn't imagine me not buying one. Now, will I be the first one to buy it? I don't know, because like, there's definitely gonna be like 1% of me, I'll be like, "Is that fucking robot gonna turn on me and shoot?" Like, you know, so, I think I'll be a fast follower. I'll let my friends here in Silicon Valley have them first for a year to get comfortable.

• 53:24Speaker 02

  My, my belief is that it's going to be one of the great things that happens to the human race. And that it is gonna elevate all of us to do much more profoundly interesting things. And that, like any big technology, some people will get very hurt by it in the short term. But long term, I'm bullish. And again, my great hope is that more people could be in my mental place. If I got hurt by, here's, this is actually very interesting. I want you to hear this. I want all of you to hear this. How many people here love entrepreneurship? They, they believe in entrepreneurship. Capitalism, they believe in it. My point of view is if you believe in it, you must be prepared to be killed by it.

• 54:05Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 54:35Speaker 07

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors, great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade: Hydrates Better Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 55:06Speaker 02

  Yep, I just hope it's fast and doesn't hurt. Yeah, I get it. But you know what I mean? Like, you can't believe in free market and capitalism and entrepreneurship and merit and then change your mind when an innovation comes along that fucks you.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Right? So I'm actually very excited about it. Oh, thank you. Thank you.

• 55:30Speaker 04

  Okay, thank you, Gary. We know we are very busy. So the last question, I hope it's short. And yeah, go ahead. We'll try to make it simple. My name is Raz. Thank you, Gary, for your presentation. So out of things that you said, something triggered my question. Is I'm running a marketing agency. We finished last year 100 million revenue.

• 55:50Speaker 02

  Wow, congrats.

• 55:51Speaker 04

  This year, we're hitting for 400 million. That's the goal. We can clap, guys. Actually, 100 million sounds impressive. Okay, no bad. Even though we're pacing 150, but you said you have agency that generates... 400 million and that's where my question comes from. Any advice, anything you can say.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  What does your agency do?

• 56:10Speaker 04

  So it's a performance marketing agency. We do lead generation.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  We generate leads for financial services.

• 56:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:16Speaker 04

  Mainly for insurances.

• 56:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 56:17Speaker 04

  Auto insurance is one of the most, like the main products.

• 56:21Speaker 02

  So is your ARB, so most of your ARB is happening mathematically in the platforms that have the most attention, yes?

• 56:31Speaker 04

  Yes, you can say so.

• 56:32Speaker 02

  So I would say your opportunity is to, you have to make a decision because you have the ability to do more services. Right? You just heard me say to a gentleman, here are three added services you could do. All of them will eat into your short-term EBITDA. Right? Because you're playing in a very math game that works quite well. If you start doing things that are a little more analog, more people, less math, it'll start to eat into your EBITDA, but it will grow your top-line revenue. That's one option. The other option is how do you get your customers? Right? I assume word of mouth.

• 57:13Speaker 02

  I assume you're running performance marketing for yourself to get more customers. The other way you go from 100 to 400 is to build a brand. Right? Vayner, my company, we don't do any RFPs. None. I've built so much brand, it just gets handed to us. So it's either brand, expanded services, because it's not grinding out what you're doing milking anymore. You're at such scale that you've fucking squeezed that, you've squeezed that orange. You're trying to get more customers. More services, so you can get more money from the people that are already paying you for performance.

• 57:55Speaker 02

  Or brand, so more people come to you that can't find you by doing a Google search or seeing you on Facebook.

• 58:02Speaker 04

  For everything what you say- It's the second question. No, it's not.

• 58:05Speaker 02

  No, no, I want to hear it.

• 58:05Speaker 04

  For everything what you say, I have some additional questions-

• 58:08Speaker 02

  Please.

• 58:08Speaker 04

  But because we're running out of time-

• 58:09Speaker 02

  No, it's okay, it's okay.

• 58:10Speaker 04

  Maybe we'll talk later.

• 58:11Speaker 02

  Do you need me to go?

• 58:12Speaker 04

  No, we just wanted to-

• 58:13Speaker 02

  Okay, go ahead.

• 58:13Speaker 04

  No, no, I'm just saying there's a lot of things that I wanted to clarify with you, but maybe later on we can chat.

• 58:18Speaker 02

  I'm literally Gary at VaynerMedia.

• 58:21Speaker 04

  Actually, guys, on the screen, actually-

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 58:23Speaker 04

  Just scan a QR code.

• 58:25Speaker 02

  Scan a QR code, email, I'm literally flying back right now.

• 58:28Speaker 04

  I'll reach out. Thank you, appreciate it.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Five hours back, I'll answer. A pleasure, congrats, man, that's incredible.

• 58:32Speaker 04

  Thank you so much, Gary Konstantin. And before you go, thank you so much again. And before you go, we have some gifts from you besides Dubai chocolate.

• 58:41Speaker 06

  I'm Christina Mascherano.

• 58:43Speaker 02

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• 59:52Speaker 02

  Journey. See you later.