Live Shopping in 2026 is Social Media in 2011

In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, I sit down on New York Knights with Lyrical Lemonade to talk about why love defeats hate every time and why the American Dream has never been greater. I share my biggest professional Kryptonite — lack of candor — and how that affected my professional life. I also discuss live shopping as the 2011 social moment and why pointing thumbs instead of fingers is the only way out. You'll learn about: • Why Love Defeats Hate • Kind Candor as a Leader • Why Live Shopping is 2011 Social • Pointing Thumbs Over Fingers • The Power of Simplifying

• 0:00Speaker 00

  That was one of the best questions I've ever been asked in a podcast or interview in my career.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  How motivated are you by love?

• 0:06Speaker 00

  Very. It is my biggest truth. Right now, people think hate's winning. But fucking, bro, in the end, love is gonna win. I'm blown away by watching other winners shit on other winners because they're jealous because that winner made a little more, the girl's a little hotter. And I'm like, "Why? Like, why don't you have the capacity to know that you're fucking amazing?" I really root for people. I root for the extremes of people. People really struggling really motivate me. I want to get them the fuck out of that darkness. I love love so much that I can't wait for it to become clear to a lot of people in the world that it always defeats hate. I'll always be there for people. I always want to step up if I can. I want people to win. I am only motivated by that because I was instilled with so much love from my mom.

• 0:48Speaker 00

  I'm not cool. My mom's cool for putting that so deep in me that I don't even fucking know how to see the world another way. This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.

• 0:59Speaker 01

  What'd you do today?

• 1:01Speaker 00

  What'd I do today?

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  Clouded on some of my Philly fan friends.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:06Speaker 00

  Got some work done.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07Speaker 00

  Typical day.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  As you should.

• 1:09Speaker 00

  As I should.

• 1:10Speaker 01

  As you should, as you were.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  How about you?

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 1:13Speaker 00

  Zero.

• 1:13Speaker 01

  Nothing yet.

• 1:14Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Just had some wine. It's early.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  It's always a good...

• 1:19Speaker 01

  Grown up. I always wondered about you when you were a kid.

• 1:22Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Were you a class clown?

• 1:25Speaker 00

  I was.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Teacher's pet?

• 1:28Speaker 00

  I was a rare breed that was... I wasn't a teacher's pet because I got D's and F's.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34Speaker 00

  And that always fucked with them. But I was the kind of class clown that the teacher liked because I didn't disrespect them. I was just trying to eliminate as many minutes from the class as humanly possible. And I think some of them appreciated the creativity.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  They saw value.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think they saw value. And I think they also saw that my intent wasn't that negative. It was just, my brain was not interested in what they were saying.

• 2:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. What was your brain thinking about at that time?

• 2:04Speaker 00

  In grammar school, it was selling candy.

• 2:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. I used to sell cheese and crackers.

• 2:08Speaker 00

  Really?

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. Thanksgiving, Halloween candy to my hungry cousins.

• 2:12Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 2:12Speaker 01

  Stuff like that.

• 2:13Speaker 00

  I wish I sold cheese. I would've been smart.

• 2:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:16Speaker 00

  Cheese for cheese.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17Speaker 00

  You know what I'm saying?

• 2:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  In middle school, it was a, it was a, we couldn't get real wine here.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Grape juice. Yeah.

• 2:32Speaker 00

  Later it was baseball cards.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  And then later it was learning about real wine.

• 2:36Speaker 02

  So, the why is not your liking?

• 2:39Speaker 00

  Well, it smells like grape juice and I thought this was an evening establishment, you know, and distribution on the modern web. Didn't think, this is not on Netflix or anything, right? No, so we can do real wine, sir.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  Yes, we can.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  I think you cheeked out. You placed the order for this?

• 2:55Speaker 02

  I'm sorry, I thought just...

• 2:57Speaker 00

  There's nothing to be sorry about, but, you know, I grew up in the wine game and I can smell grape juice. Quick!

• 3:02Speaker 01

  You see that photo of him up on the wall?

• 3:04Speaker 00

  Look at that! There it is.

• 3:07Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll get you a bottle of wine.

• 3:10Speaker 00

  Real wine.

• 3:11Speaker 02

  Yes, if that's what you would like?

• 3:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  That'd be nice.

• 3:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, that'd be good.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Alright, I'll be right back.

• 3:16Speaker 01

  Thanks, Luigi.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  So you like flipping stuff, you were flipping cards, garage sales, stuff like that?

• 3:22Speaker 00

  Yes, yeah, I was, my, my brain was always entrepreneurial, you know, I'm older than this crew behind the camera and a lot of people that are watching, meaning today, everyone under 35 understands that entrepreneurship is a viable out. Is a viable way for, for all the great people behind the cameras that are, you know, 50 and older like myself. You know, we were taught at school was the only way and going to a great college was the only way and so it was really interesting because I wasn't getting the support, you know, today, I would get support. Today, if I was in 7th grade and I'm killing it in business, my teachers would view that as like, "Good for you, that's viable."

• 4:04Speaker 00

  When I was killing it in 7th grade, my teachers were telling me that I would never amass to anything. So, yeah, I mean, I was playing against the current in the 80s and 90s, but I was locked into what is now known as entrepreneurship. At the time, I thought of it as like, "I'm gonna be a businessman."

• 4:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, did you spend a lot of years, people telling you you're crazy, beyond school? Or was everyone kinda like, "This is Gary, he knows what he's doing."

• 4:30Speaker 00

  I think it was a mix. I think my friends' parents in Jersey thought it was a little crazy. They were worried that I was gonna rub off on their kid and they would get worse grades. They knew I wasn't a bad kid.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:40Speaker 00

  So, it wasn't like my friends' parents didn't want them hanging out with me because I was gonna get them into bad shit.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  But, I'm telling you, and I'm gonna say it again, cuz, how old are you?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Twenty-eight.

• 4:52Speaker 00

  Jesus, you look great.

• 4:53Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Um, you know, you didn't grow up with the same framework. It was different. It was like, "If you do not get good grades, you cannot achieve." It's almost like the reverse now.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  I know.

• 5:03Speaker 00

  And so, and so, the parents thought it was crazy. My friends didn't give a fuck. My friends were like kids. They were twelve, nineteen, seventeen, thirteen. They were worried about hooking up or their football, you know, practice. So, it was misunderstood for sure. I'm not sure I even thought about it in any real significant way either. I was just doing what the fuck I wanted to be doing, and that was business.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  On the come up, were you dating a lot? Giving any attention to ladies, or not really?

• 5:37Speaker 00

  I liked girls, and, you know, I mean, in fifth grade, I dominated. I was really cute, and so like, you know, yeah, you got a good face.

• 5:45Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Not even low-key. I would say high-key for you.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  High-key.

• 5:48Speaker 00

  Mine's harder to decode now, but like, fifth grade, I dated a girl named Rocky in fifth grade. Rocky Marie. Yes, sir.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  This establishment does not have a liquor license, so I wasn't able to get you wine.

• 6:01Speaker 00

  I respect that.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  So I am ready to take it, whatever.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  You wanna eat something?

• 6:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we should.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  I recommend the Pasta Ten.

• 6:11Speaker 00

  The Ten?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  The Ten on there, it says Pasta Ten. It's pretty good.

• 6:14Speaker 00

  What kinda pasta is it?

• 6:16Speaker 01

  Can you explain Pasta Ten to him?

• 6:17Speaker 02

  It's, um, we have white or red.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Pasta!

• 6:23Speaker 01

  It's red.

• 6:23Speaker 02

  The sauce.

• 6:24Speaker 01

  I believe it's red.

• 6:26Speaker 02

  The sauce is on pasta. They're both very good.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  You like red?

• 6:30Speaker 00

  I like red.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Red, white?

• 6:33Speaker 00

  I'll be right back.

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Thanks.

• 6:34Speaker 00

  Why'd you take white?

• 6:36Speaker 01

  You want white?

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Well, no, I was just curious what you were doing there.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  We'll share it.

• 6:39Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do like to share.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:41Speaker 00

  One red, one white.

• 6:42Speaker 01

  Alright.

• 6:43Speaker 00

  Thank you, sir.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  What was the last thing we were saying?

• 6:46Speaker 00

  I was saying that I dated Rocky Marie.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  ASAP, Rocky.

• 6:48Speaker 00

  Who, you know, now in hindsight, like her, I wonder if her grandpa owns this place. She was really Italian. She was also twice my height.

• 6:59Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Yeah. She was a beast.

• 7:03Speaker 01

  What'd you guys do?

• 7:04Speaker 00

  We held hands while running in gym.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 7:07Speaker 00

  Which was like second base back in 1984.

• 7:11Speaker 01

  Were the teachers jealous?

• 7:13Speaker 00

  I don't know, like she was, she just moved in and like she was instantly popular, so that was a big win for me. And then I moved in 8th grade to Hunterdon County, New Jersey, from Edison, New Jersey. And those kids went to school, I only had 40 kids in my class. I went from 40 kids in my homeroom in Edison to 40 kids in my grade in 8th grade. And those kids spent all of kindergarten through 8th grade together. So, anyone that didn't look like completely broken and moved into town dominated. So Stacy Johnson, the prettiest girl, liked me in 8th grade. That was huge. She tried to kiss me under the pool table at a Halloween party, but I was scared. Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Were you scared of it? You just nervous?

• 7:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just, it's one of the great L's of my life.

• 7:55Speaker 01

  Stacy's mom.

• 7:56Speaker 00

  Stacy's mom's got it going on.

• 7:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:58Speaker 00

  And this wasn't even Stacy's mom. This was her. Like the fresher version. Yeah, she was a beast too. So, um, a little bit, like, but I was really, really, A, slow to mature with girls.

• 8:13Speaker 00

  And B, just completely obsessed with work and business and that was kind of where I was at in my youth.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, cool. And your dad with the wine shop.

• 8:24Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 8:24Speaker 01

  You started the wine library?

• 8:26Speaker 00

  I rebranded, I executed the wine library. My dad's store, you know, my dad's such a hero to me. Came to this country with no money.

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 00

  Went from being a stock boy making 2 bucks an hour, toning this small corner liquor store in New Jersey. But it was a real business and it was called Shopper's Discount Liquors.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  I looked it up, man.

• 8:46Speaker 00

  Yeah. So it was a real liquor store, right? It was really booze and beer. Uh, but I saw that people were into wine and I was interested in...

• 8:56Speaker 00

  This concept that people collected wine. That was huge for me. Because I was so into collecting cards and I didn't like the beer and liquor thing. My mom was very Nancy Regan'd out. Do you know what that means? Nancy Reagan was Ronald Reagan's wife. And she had a big campaign, "Just say no" to drugs and alcohol and all this. And so my mom was really focused on me being a good boy. Uh oh. Yes. The red and the white. Thank you so much, sir. Thank you.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  And so... When I realized that people collected, that was a huge, huge factor for me. And...

• 9:36Speaker 00

  And that's really what got me into wine. Right? So...

• 9:42Speaker 01

  When you started filming the videos, right? Because you went QVC kind of style with it.

• 9:47Speaker 00

  This grape juice sucks.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's disgusting.

• 9:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 01

  Next time, forget the license, just do it.

• 9:52Speaker 00

  Luigi, do you have... I know you have red and white, you know, pasta. Do you have red and white juice? Do you have white grape? White? White grape apple juice? Or juice, excuse me?

• 10:02Speaker 02

  I will go and look in the back, see if we have it.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  In the back. Thank you, sir.

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Anything, really.

• 10:13Speaker 01

  What'd your dad think when you started saying, "Hey, look, I'm gonna film. I'm gonna do it this way"?

• 10:17Speaker 00

  Oh, that happened much later. So, I built that business from a three to a $60 million business before I even started doing Wine Library TV. So by the time I'm like, "Dad, I'm gonna make these videos and do it on YouTube", he blindly believed that I could do anything.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  He just said, "You got it"?

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, because everything I was doing, having a website, again, just so fun to have all the kids behind the camera and knowing a bunch of kids are watching, kids, 20, 30, 40-year-olds. The internet was brand-new. That'd be like me saying, like, "We need an AI robot, you and I, to do X, Y, and Z". It was so far-fetched. It was in the ether. But it was so far-fetched, so website, email marketing, spending all our money on Google, this new site instead of direct mail. Everything I was doing was so progressive and didn't make sense at the time. But by the time I did Wine Library TV in February of 2006, I'd already been running the business day to day for eight years. I'd already won a lot of credibility.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  And the confidence my dad had in my decisions was high. He didn't understand it, but he understood me at that point.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  Yeah. Who's on your millionaires, billionaires, multimillionaires, Mount Rushmore? Who'd you look up to in business?

• 11:32Speaker 00

  That's a good question. I don't tend to look up, not out of audacity or I think I'm cool. It's just not how my brain thinks. I will say, I'm very into entrepreneurial storytellers. So what I mean by that is, when I think of this group, Dana White, Vince McMahon, David Stern, who was the NBA commissioner during the Jordan Bird years, Walt Disney, Jim Henson maybe the most, because he had built a huge world and made a lot of money, entrepreneur. But he also, you know, Sesame Street, the Muppets, they had good intent. Stan Lee.

• 12:24Speaker 03

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• 13:03Speaker 01

  Spider.

• 13:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, and really X-Men, mutants. They're different than us, but let's accept them. So, my favorite entrepreneur, it's why I'm building V Friends.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Oh, we're talking, I can't wait.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  Thank you. It's probably, you know, I think in 20 years when I'm doing something like this, that will be what I'm known for more than the wine stuff or the marketing stuff. I would say my Mount Rushmore has the people that were able to create characters that the world fell in love with. Vince McMahon did it with Hulk Hogan. Dana White did it with Conor McGregor and Ronda Rousey. David Stern did it with Magic Johnson, Larry Bird, Michael Jordan. And then obviously Stan Lee and Kirby and those guys did it with all the incredible Marvel characters. And Jim Henson did it with Kermit the Frog and Big Bird. And Walt obviously did it with Mickey and others. I'm very fascinated by that entrepreneur. That you have both creativity and salesmanship.

• 13:58Speaker 00

  And I fall into that category to some degree, subjectively, I think so. And so I think that's why that person, more than a Bezos or an Elon Musk or an Oprah Winfrey, that person resonates to me because that's how my brain sees the world.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  Building an IP.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  Building an IP. Whether that's human, right? King Kong Bundy or Magic Johnson, or whether it's a fictional character. Fred Flintstone, Scooby Doo. Doug from Nickelodeon, for you youngsters.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  What is the 2026 version? What is the 2026 version of the American dream?

• 14:37Speaker 00

  That's a really complicated and good question. Personally, I think it's exactly the same. We live in a country that, compared to other countries, has a remarkable amount of infrastructure in place, including our cultural DNA, to allow people to go from dirt to penthouse. I believe currently, all of you are consuming way too much negative bullshit that is predicated on, "Let me be a politician, a business, a parent, a teacher, a pontificating podcaster. I'm gonna deploy hate on you.

• 15:20Speaker 00

  I'm gonna deploy fear on you so that you think I can help you." I'm gonna scare you, so that you think I can help you.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  I can save you.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Correct. And I think so many people have bought into that, which makes a lot of people

• 15:38Speaker 00

  currently believe that the American dream is not valid. For example, an ungodly amount of kids under 30 will see a TikTok or Instagram that tells them, "You're fucked. Your generation's the worst." You're the first generation to have it worse. Meanwhile, there's unlimited 20 and 30-year-old fuckers making money that was incomprehensible in my era. The internet, social, created an unbelievable AI, an unbelievable amount of opportunity. But because everyone has believed that it's worse, people think the American dream is dead. The American dream, on its merit and opportunity, has never been greater. There's no gatekeepers

• 16:23Speaker 00

  in Hollywood and Madison Avenue, like in Wall Street, the way there used to be. However, more don't believe in it. And that is a sad affair of a group of individuals, both on the left and the right, up and down, who have figured out that most people are insecure, and they're preying on their insecurity.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  What are these kids wasting their time with today? Putting too much energy into?

• 16:49Speaker 00

  Fear and hate.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  A lot of hate online.

• 16:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, man. People think that if you shit on someone, some way miraculously, your life's better.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  That's what my dad thinks.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro, I get it.

• 17:02Speaker 01

  I shit on my grandfather every day. He would be puking sick. Hey, this is my cousin right here. Gary, nice to meet you.

• 17:08Speaker 00

  What's up, man? How are you?

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Pull the chair up for a minute. He's an entrepreneur.

• 17:12Speaker 00

  Oh, is this the cousin on your dad's side?

• 17:14Speaker 01

  He's on my dad's side.

• 17:15Speaker 00

  Oh, great. So we're talking about grandpa.

• 17:17Speaker 01

  We've done some business. We're in business together.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  I love that.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  But, um, Gary, how can I take my business to the next level?

• 17:23Speaker 00

  What is your business?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  I sell clothes. I'm a designer, artist.

• 17:27Speaker 00

  Love. Yep. How do you sell it now? Wholesale or direct to consumer, or both?

• 17:31Speaker 01

  Just my website, online. Post on Instagram, live now.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  That. Brother, I'm telling you right now, like, first of all, that's incredible. I might have to do that. Um, second of all...

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Where live shopping is right now TikTok shop, whatnot, soon to be Meta and Youtube and all the rest is where social was probably in 2011.

• 17:55Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:56Speaker 00

  In 2011, social, the social we all know was probably 6, 7 years old.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  6, 7.

• 18:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, 6, 7. I knew it, others knew it, but the world didn't know it. Not everyone knew it. Live shopping right now, there are a lot of people that are gonna leave comments in this video. They're like, "Yeah, I've been making money." Like, it's happened. "I'm a TikTok affiliate, I'm making bank." But you know this, the masses don't know it.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 18:22Speaker 00

  I would say for a fashion brand, live shopping is at the tippy top of the list.

• 18:27Speaker 04

  Selling on a livestream, like, "This shirt, right now, da, da, da."

• 18:30Speaker 00

  100%.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  They bid on it?

• 18:32Speaker 00

  What's that? They bid on it or they buy it now. There's a shitty way to do it. It's kinda like just QVC and like, and then there's an entertaining way. Look what's going on here. There's a shitty way to do an interview and a podcast and a video blog. And then it's y'all doing this proper. So you can elevate the experience of live shopping. But to put into context, China, this year, 1 trillion dollars of GMV, which stands for Gross Merchandise Value, 1 trillion dollars of stuff will sell in China through live shopping. That is fucking insanity. That is, for you, for sure, obviously making content,

• 19:14Speaker 00

  obviously influencer and micro influencer deals, pop-ups, 3, 4 weeks in the right place, doing something proper at cultural events, Rolling Loud, Coachella. Yeah, I mean, it's always "and." People think it's one move. It's like fighting, right? Why did UFC emerge? It's not just boxing, it's not just Jiu-Jitsu, it's not just wrestling. You have to have it all. I would argue the modern MMA fighter is the comp to the modern entrepreneur. You gotta do it all.

• 19:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 19:45Speaker 00

  You like that, right? That hit for you? That hit, right? I do like that analogy.

• 19:50Speaker 04

  Well, I appreciate it.

• 19:51Speaker 00

  Oh, good to see you, bro. You gotta run? You're outta here? Where you going tonight?

• 19:54Speaker 04

  I gotta get some work done, so.

• 19:56Speaker 00

  I appreciate that. I respect that.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Are NFTs coming back?

• 20:00Speaker 00

  NFTs are still here.

• 20:03Speaker 00

  What most people don't understand about NFTs, and if you look back at my videos, and please, Cole, edit it in here. I want the receipts. Like, this is not an edit. I'm just talking to you while I'm talking to them. When I made the videos saying 99% of NFTs were gonna go to zero in August of 2021, it's because NFTs are just like trading cards and comic books. 99% of comics are worthless. Yeah. 99% of trading cards are worthless. For you kids, 99% of sneakers are worthless, but 1% are worth money. So, what blows people away when I talk about it now is, go look at OpenSea right now and see the millions of dollars in NFT sales last week.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  But, the whole world thinks it was a scam and it's shit. Most people think NFTs are beanie babies. NFTs are stuffed animals. Projects within stuffed animals come and go. Right now, jelly cats are good. Love those. You do love those, right? You got a couple? I have a few. Nice. Squishmallows are solid. But, Cabbage Patch Kids used to be... There's just ebb and flow. It's like fashion. All you fuckers were wearing skinny ass jeans nine years ago? Now you're baggy as fuck. Goes back and forth, back and forth. And so that's kind of where NFTs are. It will take three to five years for the stink to get off that brand. But that's what happened with the internet. And here's a history lesson for all of you.

• 21:32Speaker 00

  In April of 2000, I think, I think it's 2000, all the internet stocks crashed. eBay, Amazon, PayPal. They went from a buck fifty to three dollars, four dollars. Pets.com went to zero. A million others went to zero. And all the articles and everybody running around town in 2000 was like, "The internet was a fad." Literal articles written. See, the web was a fad. What happened was greed took over in Wall Street and Silicon Valley and tipped it. What happened with NFTs is greed took over. Everybody was trying to make a quick buck. But digital collectibles on the blockchain is a guarantee and inevitable.

• 22:13Speaker 00

  And there'll be 5 to 10 to 15 projects from that 2021 hysteria that will make it to the other side.

• 22:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. I'll look for Luigi.

• 22:22Speaker 00

  Luigi.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  You made a miracle happen.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  Look at that. You like this brand?

• 22:27Speaker 00

  I do like this brand. Who'd you hit up? Tell me Luigi. Who's the plug?

• 22:31Speaker 02

  I found it hidden in the cellar.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  A little Pinot Noir.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little Noir. How do you go about firing somebody?

• 22:39Speaker 00

  Me?

• 22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 00

  Thank you, sir. I just, I think he needs me to sniffy sniff this one second. I will answer that very important question. Yeah, a little.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  Good stuff, Luigi. Thank you. Hey, everybody. I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  Me personally, I want to be a little bit vulnerable here.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:06Speaker 00

  Because I think it'll bring value to everyone.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  I would argue from 22 to 45, a 23-year window. Thank you, my friend.

• 23:16Speaker 02

  You're very welcome.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Appreciate that.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 23:19Speaker 02

  We aim to please this establishment.

• 23:20Speaker 00

  Well, clearly you've accomplished it.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  You're pleasing me.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  It's a good health.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  It's a great health.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  Enjoy.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  Thank you, sir.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  From 22 to 45, I would tell you it was by far the thing I did most poorly as a businessman and operator.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  Was it emotional?

• 23:42Speaker 00

  It still is.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 23:43Speaker 00

  I was sloppy. I wasn't candorous. In my twenties, I would hide behind my cousin and father, even though I was running the business. When it was time to fire someone, I did everything, made every decision. But when it came to firing, even though I made the decision, I was a puss and I would need my cousin to do it. And I would tell you, and this is like, like, I know we're doing a really nice production here, but I hope this really helps someone because this was by far my kryptonite. I was very, very gifted with DNA and my mother and father and my circumstances. I was gifted. It worked out for me. My circumstances worked for me. Timing worked for me.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  I was given so many talents, naturally, because my mom and dad had sex at the right second. Best. The best. I was born nine months to the day of my parents' wedding night.

• 24:35Speaker 00

  That's how they did it back in the day, in the Soviet Union.

• 24:40Speaker 00

  I was Superman entrepreneurially, in a lot of ways. My kryptonite was lack of candor when it came to someone underperforming. So to answer you directly and not long-winded, how did I fire? Poorly. Mistakingly. Embarrassingly bad. I had this moment where I saw a Facebook group of former employees of VaynerMedia talking shit about me. And I read every comment, and these were people that I really like. Like, now. And it worked for me for four, five, seven years. It was a small group of the, at this point, 10,000 people that have probably come through the business,

• 25:23Speaker 00

  plus, in the last 15 years, and, you know, such a high percentage, still here, feeling great, used it as a launching pad. But this small group really bothered me, because they were part of the original core. And, forever,

• 25:40Speaker 00

  here's how it would go down. Somebody would be underperforming, and I didn't have the ability to tell them, because I didn't want to scare them. Back to, you saw how I reacted to fear. I fuck it, bro. I fucking hate fear. You have no idea how much I think most people that are online right now, that have audiences, are straight fucking losers, because I know exactly what the fuck they're doing. They're just scaring people on both sides. They're doing the same shit. Both fuckers. Left, right, blue, red. They're all fucking losers, because they're tearing down people to build themselves up. So I hated fear, and I thought telling you, "Hey, you're not doing a great job, we need to..." I thought you would leave my office and be scared, and start looking for another job.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  I didn't know the value of kind candor yet. I had to develop that. And, so I just sit on it. And actually, what would happen is I became passive-aggressive. I called it razzing with my inner circle, but it was passive-aggressiveness. I would tell you I'm not happy with you through a comment, or a snark, or a this. And it's really challenging to even talk about out loud, because...

• 26:49Speaker 00

  It sucks because here's what would happen. Somebody would suck at their job. I would carry them for 2 years. Brother, these are nice shoulder pads.

• 26:58Speaker 01

  Thank you, Balenciaga.

• 26:59Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 27:01Speaker 00

  I would carry them for 2 years. And then finally I would have the courage to call them in on a Monday. By the way, mind you, on Friday, I'm like, Johnny, have the best weekend, you're the fucking best. And then Monday come in, so Johnny thinks he's getting a fucking promo, because I fucking, you know?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  Hit me on the shoulder.

• 27:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I'm gonna smash myself into the table. But like, you know, like, on Friday, I'd go to Johnny and be like, "Sorry, sorry, you alright?"

• 27:27Speaker 01

  Fuckin' fine.

• 27:28Speaker 00

  Bro, I've been really...

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Take it easy.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get it. So, Friday, I'd be like, Johnny, you're the fucking best, have the best weekend. Be careful, be careful. Best weekend. One sip.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Shit, keep going.

• 27:40Speaker 00

  And then Monday, I'd finally build up the courage, because on the weekend, I'd be like, fucking Johnny's. And I'd fucking be, you know, Johnny, I'm sorry, you know, it's the end of the road. And he'd be pissed. And I'd be pissed, like, Johnny, everybody in the company, how the... You know, I would blame him, how the fuck don't you know you suck shit?

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:57Speaker 00

  I've been... You're mad at me? I've been paying you for a year to do nothing.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Johnny's sucking shit.

• 28:02Speaker 00

  Sucking shit. And... Wait, do you guys have shit here?

• 28:09Speaker 01

  Louis, can you take a shit?

• 28:13Speaker 00

  And serve it? You know, and so, they'd be sucking shit. No, really. I get it, brother. But unreal, like, I know, you know, it's funny, but like, he would suck at his job. He would get mad. I'd get mad back, and I didn't take on accountability that I did not put Johnny. Everybody who was average and good, I would put in a position to succeed, I would build up. Anyone who was a poor performer, I was not giving them a chance to fix it.

• 28:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  And how would they know if I didn't tell them? And that was a dark day for me professionally, when I had to look in the mirror. And just say, "Fuck, this is my fault." It's not Johnny's wrong. And I would say over the last five years, kind candor, having the strength to be able like, "Hey Susan, hey Rashawn, hey Johnny, hey Sally, you know, hey, we subjectively think this is not going well. Can we fix this? It's been remarkable. It's changed everything in our company." You know, this is really, this actually makes me a little bit emotional. I had this great dream for 20-plus years of my career that no one was scared of my company because it was all rainbow and sunshine. Only to find out, people were scared. Because they didn't know where they really stood with me.

• 29:26Speaker 00

  Because if they were around long enough, they're like, "Fuck, Johnny was good and then Johnny's dead." Sally was good. That was, that was the most challenging emotional recognition of my professional career so far. Because that's the thing you're gonna learn as a youngster and everybody's watching. Your biggest vulnerability is what you can't see.

• 29:45Speaker 01

  True.

• 29:45Speaker 00

  When you see it, you at least know and you're kind of navigating. When you can't fucking see it, when it's your blind spot, that's fucking tough.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. What's an opportunity you just like really regret turning down?

• 29:59Speaker 01

  You're like, "Oh, shit."

• 30:00Speaker 00

  I mean, I have an unanswered email from [email protected].

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Airbnb.

• 30:07Speaker 00

  Yes, sir. "Hey Gary, me and my two partners think you're the greatest. We'd be honored for you to be an investor." Missed it. Don't even know if I saw it or it got archived or I did see it and archived it. I'm talking nausea. We don't need to go into it, but I can put a real number on it. I passed on Uber twice in the angel round. It's, you know, it doesn't sting because Travis is such a buddy and I'm so happy he crushed. And two, I got in a little bit later and did incredibly well. But fuck, man, if I wrote a $50,000 check, $25,000 check like I was writing at that time...

• 30:41Speaker 00

  Fucking would have been 300 to 500 million dollars. And he was my guy. It's not like it was a random startup person. You know, Cole, Mike, I'm looking right like, I know them. And like, when you say no to someone you know. And I knew Trav then and I know them, and I know them pretty solid, like, that was my guy. I mean, in fact Crush It, my first book. This is my first book. The acknowledgements, my family and one random person, Travis. Cause he actually read it multiple times before it came out and gave me feedback. That was a really big L and really crazy to think about because my life would be so substantially different. Because the financial impact of that decision would have completely butterfly affected my career.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  I mean, there's, you know what's crazy? And I hope this helps someone. I think most people spend a stunning percentage of their life dwelling on what they missed. The girl, the guy, the business, the investment, all this shit. You know what I'm talking about, I see you shaking your head. I think it's a complete and utter waste of time. I answer it here because I don't want to dodge it and I want, I hope people can learn from it. And it's also great to see like, no matter how good you are at something, you're making constant mistakes. But brother, I will tell you. My inability to dwell. Cry about spilled fucking milk. Look back and hurt my fucking neck. Is one of my greatest strengths and I wish it on everyone. Because there is no time machines.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  There is no going back. And rolling in the mud of your missteps is literally one of the least productive fucking things a person can do. True. And it gets you into bitterness. Which then starts to deploy envy and jealousy. And then you're fucking doom scrolling on your fucking couch, leaving negative comments to people that are actually building. While you're fucking jerking off to OnlyFans. Exactly.

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I love jerking off.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  To OnlyFans?

• 32:41Speaker 01

  Everything.

• 32:42Speaker 00

  Good. Like, besides OnlyFans, what is your top five jerking off list?

• 32:46Speaker 01

  Shit, the shit I like to jerk off to?

• 32:49Speaker 00

  People eating shit?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:51Speaker 00

  I knew that's why you ordered it.

• 32:52Speaker 01

  You know, punch me and get out. I'm gonna throw the tire back. You know, I don't know.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  Like, eating shit? I knew you fucking, that's why you ordered it. Relax, brother.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Got strong fingers, man. Um, you like using AI?

• 33:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's inevitable.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  If you could automate your business, step away as a CEO and just take on a passion? You know, I'm sure you're passionate about the business, but let's pretend you're not. Well, no, let's pretend you are. But you move forward on some other new, wait, let me read this question.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  No worries.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Do you like using AI?

• 33:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, it's inevitable.

• 33:30Speaker 01

  If you could pursue a passion project, what would it be? Besides the business?

• 33:34Speaker 00

  Besides the business?

• 33:39Speaker 00

  You know, business and work is my hobby, it's my passion. I have so many friends who are very passionate about their business, but they use their business to fund their real passions. Skiing, you know, music, traveling, partying, like lots of different cool things. For me, it's like I use a business to fund my next business. It's really my hobby, but if you're, I want to answer you. I believe that if I, if there was a way to suck out my ambition and entrepreneurial DNA, I think I would be a therapist. So if I could fund a passion project, I would build a nonprofit, mental health ecosystem

• 34:23Speaker 00

  where I could sit and be like fucking, I always dreamed about being like fucking Yoda. Like all fucking old as shit, yeah. I just wanna be old as shit in like some weird mountain. That's kinda hard to get to because I want people to put in the work. And like you have to climb up this fucking mountain in like Peru. And there I am, and if you like made it, then it's like fuck it, I'll sit down with you. And like chat about life. So I would say something like that. Like to me, if I ever take a hard turn, this is just good for all of you to know. Like if I disappear, I'm on some Dave Chappelle shit, but the good version. Like I'm off the, I'm gone, but I'm findable. But it's gonna be somewhere, like there's no like, like I'm either dying at the desk.

• 35:06Speaker 00

  97, building my empire, or to the full extreme. I'm on a weird chicken farm in Kenya. That you have to like go under a tunnel and then you could talk to me, like something super left field.

• 35:21Speaker 00

  To me, it's like either side of the pillow, nothing in between. The middle is not interesting.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Who's a random person you met, whether it be at a dinner, dance party. That really, you know, altered everything for you, changed your life? In business or personal, whatever it is?

• 35:39Speaker 00

  I would say the person that most had an impact on me randomly was Scott Harrison. The founder of Charity Water. I had dinner in New York one night. One of these classic, I'm always working, 10:30 PM, starting dinners. With a gentleman by the name of Chris Saka. Who was a very successful entrepreneur, excuse me, investor. And um, he brought Scott. And Scott and I, we were having dinner, all just chopping it up. This was these golden days of 2009, 10, 11, 12. The world was changing, I was in the mix with all these incredible people. And we're having this dinner just like this, and eat by the way, please.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  I'm kinda enamored.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  Okay, respect. And... Scott said something to me, and you know, it's fun because I live a life where I say something and I get emails six years later that one sentence changed your life. That's what I'm trying to do right now. How do I bring value? Scott looked me in the face about an hour into the dinner and said, "Gary, I have a good read on you." Which I was like, it was an interesting like start. I think that way. I'm pretty intuitive. So I thought it was interesting because I'd never really been on the receiving end of such an aggressive opening line. He goes, "Let me get this straight. You're gonna go rags to riches. You're gonna be very successful. And in your older age, you're gonna do good. You're gonna like, do good stuff. You're gonna give a lot of your money away. You're gonna do this stuff."

• 37:01Speaker 00

  And I was like, "Yeah." And he goes, "Why don't you start doing that now?"

• 37:06Speaker 00

  And it like shook me. He was like, "Why wouldn't you start giving away some of your money now so that you can impact your children, so you can feel the impact of it? And most of all, fuck that shit because that's selfish. So that you can impact people now, not 40 years from now." And like, I don't know if you see these goosebumps, but I'm getting them right now.

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, you are.

• 37:28Speaker 00

  It just changed the way I looked at the world and within a couple of months, I joined the Board of Charity Water. A few months later, I joined the Board of Pencils of Promise. And, um, you know, I don't talk, I don't, I'm very, I'm a little old school. Like, talking about your nonprofit work feels, I don't mind self-promoting my businesses, but those frivolous things feel easy. Buy this wine. Buy this V-Friend. But the real stuff I do is a little bit more behind the scenes. But joining those two boards, being involved in many different things has been incredibly impactful and that is one moment in my life where I met someone randomly, the first time I met them, and they changed the course of how I saw life.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  What's a prediction you made that you were just totally wrong on? That you really believed I'm right?

• 38:17Speaker 00

  That I thought?

• 38:20Speaker 00

  That I thought in 1997 with WineLibrary.com that by the year 2000, all of you would buy everything on the internet.

• 38:30Speaker 01

  Just because of the number?

• 38:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean 2000 was like, you know, again, it was a big number for all of us in society. What I didn't know in my twenties, that I always push all of you that are trying to win, is I didn't know timing of how long it took people to do the thing that was obvious to me. Notice today with AI, I'll say it's inevitable. I won't say next year everyone's gonna... I don't put years on it, or if I do, if you look at some of my content, I'm like, "Live shopping", like your cousin, right? You got it, you watched. In a decade, in nine years, like, I did not know my... I don't really predict things. I only talk about things that are happening. In 97, people were buying on the internet.

• 39:18Speaker 00

  Amazon was working, eBay was working. When I talked about TikTok, it already happened. It was called Musically, I was all over it. Like, I don't really predict. It's more that I know when things cross the chasm from going to a small group of nerds or a small group of cool kids, and that it's gonna go mainstream. And I try to figure out when that timing is. And so, if I was making content about business in my twenties, a lot of those receipts would be wrong because I was more emphatic of when, and all of my belief back then was fast. Got it?

• 39:58Speaker 01

  Got it.

• 39:59Speaker 00

  I would think that in a year or two this, in a year or two this, now I think in decades, not years.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  What made you start The Friends?

• 40:08Speaker 01

  What was the moment where you said, "I'm gonna make the cards, I'm gonna make the coins, I'm gonna make, you know, the comics"?

• 40:14Speaker 00

  It was, it was the... It was... Covid was what, 19 or 20?

• 40:22Speaker 01

  19, but I think officially we felt it in 20.

• 40:25Speaker 00

  Right, so, it was early 20 that, that I was seeing like NBA top shop, like seeing digital stuff. I'd heard about NFTs, not in that term. I heard about Moon Cats years ago. But I started doing homework in January. I was full pledge, and some of you remember this. I was full pledged the year before that trading cards were coming back. Which made everyone like, like some of my smartest friends were like, "Hey, I think you're losing it." Cause I'm like really yelling, out of left field by the way. On business, marketing, investment, starting to get a little bougie, CMB, you know this. And out of nowhere, I'm like, "Sports cards." And everyone was like, "What?" And so I was watching sports cards and I was like, "Fuck, I think this might happen.

• 41:10Speaker 00

  This might be the contemporary art of this generation." I was watching what was happening with sneakers, I could see that it was moving into sports cards. And I started talking about that. That led to people reaching out to me in early twenties saying, "Hey, do you see this NFT thing?" So in January of twenty, and because it was COVID, and I had more time at home to do more research than I'm accustomed to when I'm busy, I had the ability to really dig in and very quickly, I, I, it became obvious to me that CryptoPunks was gonna be the NFT. And I was gonna collect them, like I collect a lot of things. And then I was like, you know, for a long time, I've always wanted to be in intellectual property.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  I wanted to buy like Scooby Doo or Casper the Friendly Ghost and refurbish it. Right?

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Restart it?

• 41:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, you know what just happened the last four years, five years with Crocs?

• 42:03Speaker 01

  The shoe?

• 42:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:04Speaker 00

  Where for the ten years, fifteen years prior, it was corny as hell, and then they just got cool again four years ago. And now they're starting to dip again, but everyone was rocking them. Cole would rock, you know, like cool kids would rock them. Well, that was cool in the nineties, then it was dead for fifteen years. And then, and then it became cool again. I'm obsessed with that. Like, for example, this will land with a lot of you. I can't wait for Supreme to come back. Like, it needs to be dead for another five to seven years. But in seven years, when it comes back, everyone's like of your, your era, even a little older than you, is gonna be like, "Yeah." Cause that's just how shit works. So...

• 42:43Speaker 01

  I think it's coming back shockingly soon.

• 42:46Speaker 00

  It might, it might.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  I see a lot of normal people wearing it.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, respect it, you know, it, it kind of can be faster these days. Nonetheless, um... I always thought about that from characters. I still believe about Popeye, Felix the Cat, Betty Boop, the Flintstones, I think all of, I mean you see it happening, right? He-Man Masters of the Universe is about to come out as a movie, like, nostalgia is wildly underpriced and misunderstood. It makes you feel. It makes you remember when you were a little fucker and life was simple. And that's something us grownups need. So anyway, I've always thought about that. When I saw the NFT thing in early 2020, I was like, wait a minute. I think I can build a world from scratch, not buy one, using this infrastructure.

• 43:34Speaker 00

  And at that point, the Gary Vee brand, the content I was putting out was really working, but I knew that I couldn't reach all 8 billion people because I'm not everyone's cup of tea. Right? Like, no human can be everyone's cup of tea. But I wanted to push patience, accountability, tenacity, competitiveness. Be a fucking gangster, but don't be a fucking dickface, right? That's like the framework. And so, I created these characters. Because I think patient panda and empathy elephant and entrepreneurial elf and tenacious termite and competitive clown can get to people and parents that I could never get to. And so, it was just a mix, like a meal. It was my ambition to selfish and selfless.

• 44:19Speaker 00

  At the highest level, V Friends is selfish and selfless. It's selfless because I want to use these 250 characters to actually make the world better, because I think I'm talented enough to do that.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Who is competitive clown?

• 44:30Speaker 00

  Who is he?

• 44:34Speaker 00

  I can't tell you because I haven't launched the comic book origin story yet. But competitive clown is a V friend. And a popular one, he has a crazy origin story, but I can't disclose that yet. So anyway, it's selfless because I do want these characters to actually bring, and this is why I realized I was more Jim Henson than Walt Disney. I think Jim Henson's universe, especially Sesame Street with Inclusion, had really good agenda. And really did a good job on us and like, made us better kids, especially in that era. But it was selfish because he was building a multi-hundred-million-dollar IP. That's how V Friends is gonna work out for me. It's gonna be a very positive impact on society over the next half-century. But it's gonna make me a lot of money.

• 45:21Speaker 03

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• 45:47Speaker 05

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Day. Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 45:51Speaker 06

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 45:54Speaker 05

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 45:55Speaker 06

  Make them remember you.

• 45:57Speaker 05

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  That's a shit.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, I'm very pro-capitalism as long as it's not out of whack.

• 46:10Speaker 01

  How important is sleep to you?

• 46:13Speaker 00

  For me personally?

• 46:14Speaker 01

  What is your sleep schedule? How has it been your whole life?

• 46:17Speaker 00

  I've slept seven to eight hours my whole life with a lot of sixes and fives when I travel. But it was funny, when I was blowing up, a lot of people thought I was all about like just hustle. And I was always fascinated, I'm like, do people listen to my words? Like, to me, it's passion, which leads to you wanting to do it. And you've got to work extra if you're in a shit situation to get out. But I was never, there's no content out there of like me being pumped about four hours of sleep.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  It's horrible.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, for me personally, the reason I'm such a maniac and such a gangster is because I have so much energy when I'm on the field. I can only have that energy when I have at least seven.

• 46:57Speaker 01

  What time do you get to bed?

• 46:59Speaker 00

  I'm an 11, I'm usually an 11 to 1 a.m. guy, but more 11 and 12s. And 6, 7, wake up.

• 47:07Speaker 01

  6, 7?

• 47:08Speaker 00

  6, 7.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  How much do you splurge? What do you splurge on?

• 47:12Speaker 00

  Weird. Weird jerseys of esoteric athletes of my favorite teams.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Okay, that's what you collect?

• 47:20Speaker 00

  I don't collect it even. It's like my splurge. I spend a lot of money on collectibles, but I don't think I'm splurging. I think I'm investing.

• 47:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:26Speaker 00

  Like, when I buy a $50,000 Spider-Man card, I think it's gonna be worth $200,000. I don't view that as splurge. Splurge is when the New York Jets take a 7th round running back, and I get a custom jersey for $250 bucks, when the kid might get cut before I even get to wear the jersey to the first game. So, I don't splurge. I mean, I splurge on time.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  What about jumping into the Jets' pot seat? If you owned it, what would you do to make them better?

• 47:57Speaker 00

  I think running anything is based about people. So, I'm actually very happy with who the Jets have right now, both on the business side president and on the general manager. So ironically, like literally if there was a magic thing and I owned the Jets right now, it wouldn't change much. I actually think they have the right business side team and sports side team. I think Muj has been unbelievable. So, I think the best owners focus on what they can control, which in my opinion is who do you hire to be your direct reports? I think the one thing sports teams are not doing well enough is investing in their fans. So I think I would probably create a chief fan officer.

• 48:36Speaker 01

  CFO?

• 48:37Speaker 00

  CFO.

• 48:40Speaker 00

  Whose job, she or his job, would be to be psycho about actually giving a fuck about the fans, not fuck the fans, they have no say anyway. And I think that would really go a long way when things are not going well.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 48:54Speaker 00

  But I'm obsessed right now with Muj, our GM. I think he's doing a really good job. And that, to me, is how you fix it. The general manager is the linchpin, because he or she is making the decisions on your coach and your players, and that's the fucking punchline.

• 49:10Speaker 01

  Do you ever get sad, Gary? Do you ever get blue?

• 49:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. I'm a human. I'm not a robot.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  I mean, I think my perspective is really solid, and I keep shit basic, and that makes me happier by percentage. I get upset when I'm very concerned about the health and well-being of people around me.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 49:29Speaker 00

  I'll share something vulnerable. We had a leader in my company. One of the healthiest guys in our company, worked out every day, had a stroke. A bad one. And has not been able to come back to work. And has young children and just like, it shakes you, you know? Such a good man, like, you know, it's the things that all of us go like, why would God do this, right? I worry about my parents' health, my children's health for sure. So I get blue if I let my brain go into fear, which I try not to, but if I do around the health and wellness of my family, that can get me cooking. I also don't like, I just don't like negativity and darkness.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  So like, when I see somebody gaining popularity around selling a negative agenda, I get a little concerned, miffed. But overall, I'm pretty optimistic that things will flush out. I'm incredibly optimistic about human beings. Even though right now, I'm disappointed that I think a lot of us are getting tricked around fear and selfishness. I actually think that there's a real light at the end of the tunnel. And so, yeah, I mean, I keep my blues for very important shit, which is primarily the health and wellness of my family.

• 50:50Speaker 00

  And I will tell you, I'm glad you paused on that. Yes, sir.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  Gentlemen, how is your meal?

• 50:56Speaker 01

  Oh, it's wonderful.

• 50:57Speaker 00

  Very good.

• 50:57Speaker 01

  I couldn't even get into it, but Luigi, you're really good.

• 50:59Speaker 02

  What about the wine?

• 51:00Speaker 00

  The wine was great, brother.

• 51:02Speaker 01

  Amazing.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  You want to join us in a glass, brother?

• 51:04Speaker 02

  Uh, no, I don't think I should. I have other customers.

• 51:06Speaker 00

  Okay, respect.

• 51:08Speaker 02

  And I don't want to get fired also.

• 51:10Speaker 00

  Is that the policy?

• 51:12Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 51:13Speaker 01

  You can have a drink.

• 51:14Speaker 02

  The boss doesn't like me, you never know.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Here, Luigi, have a little sip.

• 51:17Speaker 02

  No, I don't think I should.

• 51:18Speaker 01

  All right, it's good.

• 51:20Speaker 02

  Enjoy your meal.

• 51:20Speaker 00

  Passed the task. Thank you, sir.

• 51:25Speaker 00

  I'm glad you paused on that, just to go back on that. I will say this, and this is like real fucking talk for everybody who's watching. If you're able to simplify, it just changes everything because, like, to me it's been very simple. Money made, money lost. Notoriety gained, being in a slump. People talking shit, people praising you. If none of that is really meaningful, when you compare it to, think of your highest high or your lowest low, professionally or reputationally. How does that feel in comparison to something really actually happening to someone you really love? Even though things are going well. And that's basically how I've trained my brain. I think in life you find what you're looking for.

• 52:10Speaker 00

  I like the way you paused because you're young. And I have a real passion, if I can get the youngsters to understand like, all the shit you're crying about as you're watching this right now, it really doesn't fucking matter. Not in the scheme of things, and life, you know this, it could fucking change in a heartbeat. And I think everyone just takes themselves so serious. Did you watch the Kevin Hart roast?

• 52:32Speaker 01

  I love Kevin Hart.

• 52:33Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 52:34Speaker 01

  I didn't see it.

• 52:35Speaker 00

  Okay. Like, something, I watched it the other night, something really struck me which is like,

• 52:43Speaker 00

  those who can laugh at themselves for real are fucking winning. And just, I don't know, everyone just thinks they're fucking too cool, which just means they're too insecure. And I just wish the world can get a little more simplified.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  What was the darkest moment that you pulled yourself out of where you were like, really stuck in it, you couldn't really move? And you were like, "Okay, I gotta stop."

• 53:06Speaker 00

  That's a really good fucking question. I would say, being transparent about something I haven't talked a lot about, I would say that there was a moment where I started to resent my father, because I built a very big business for him, and I wasn't getting any of the money. And like, I was young. And so, and I'm an immigrant. And I signed up for running the business, not with him, he didn't ask. Me, myself, I decided to join the business, because I thought I was Kobe and LeBron and could do it as a kid. And wanted to build a big business for my parents as a thank you. And knew later on I could go do my thing. The reason I keep telling all you fuckers, be paid, you know all the jokes people make of me, like, when I'm like, "You're young, you're young." At 34 years old, I didn't have a fucking penny.

• 53:53Speaker 00

  So of course I believe that, that you have time. So anyway, in my late twenties, early thirties, I had started a family, and I had no financial means of any kind of sort, especially compared to the impact I had created. And so, it was a challenge, a child's inner challenge of, "How am I gonna do multiple things? How am I gonna get myself out of resentment? Because that's fucking garbage." "How am I gonna get myself out of this? And go do something else?" "I'm the whole fucking company. I can't fuck my dad. What do I do?" And so, you know, I really built up the team around me. Huge shout out to my best friend Brandon Warnicki.

• 54:36Speaker 00

  I elevated his skill set to be able, to me to start doing more with my brother and VaynerMedia. And, you know, I just kind of, it's kind of why I talk so much about lack of complaining and accountability. Let me tell you what I didn't do. I didn't do what so many people are doing right now. Which is fucking bitch and cry like a fucking bitch.

• 55:00Speaker 00

  I didn't complain. I just fucking went in my cocoon and decided what moves I had to do, knew I was gonna have to eat shit.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  You're about to, look.

• 55:09Speaker 00

  Oh, I see it, the cake. Uh, chocolate.

• 55:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, chocolate, yeah.

• 55:14Speaker 00

  And, uh, you know, worked for two, three years to set myself up to be able to give me the flexibility. And, um, I pointed thumbs instead of fingers. I didn't blame my dad, my mom, the world, capitalism, the president, I don't even fuck, like...

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Pointing thumbs instead of fingers, I like that. Because it's like...

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  It's pretty good.

• 55:37Speaker 00

  Do you understand what's going on out there?

• 55:38Speaker 01

  No.

• 55:39Speaker 00

  It's Trump's fault, it's Biden's fault, it's Republicans' fault, it's Democrats' fault, it's capitalism's fault, it's socialism's fault, it's immigrants' fault, it's, it's white dudes' fault. When the fuck is it your fault that you fucking suck?

• 55:56Speaker 00

  I know. And so, I was in this shitty spot. It wasn't my dad's fault. He didn't make me. It wasn't North Korea. It wasn't slavery. I wanted to be a noble man and build this thing for my parents. Now I done it. Now, I had the circumstances and the ramifications of being in an immigrant business.

• 56:17Speaker 01

  An Ivy.

• 56:18Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so, I had to fucking bite my cheeks, bite my tongue, not cry, and start figuring it out. And the way I did that was build up everyone around me, that I felt good enough that I could step to the side and do something else. For the first two years of VaynerMedia, I was double CEO-ing. I was running the wine store and running VaynerMedia. Those were long 15-hour days for a couple of years, but there was no way out of my perceived... There was no way out of doing right by my dad and mom and doing right by me, other than going through... You know, I think about, you know Rocky IV when he's in the snow? Yeah, the fucking log. I think about that fucking scene in Russia, like, no pain, no gain, that stuff.

• 57:03Speaker 00

  Like, I really believe that. I don't understand why everyone has decided life should be a piece of cake.

• 57:08Speaker 01

  Speaking of cake.

• 57:10Speaker 00

  What a sad... Hey, bro, I set you up. I didn't even think of that. Alright, Luigi, let's do it.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  So, these two slices of cake look identical, correct?

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Is one cake and one's not? Is it that game show?

• 57:21Speaker 01

  It's kinda like that. So, one is cake and one is completely made, ingredients as well, using generative AI.

• 57:30Speaker 00

  Amazing.

• 57:30Speaker 01

  So, one is made by a chef.

• 57:33Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:33Speaker 01

  Classic baker style. And one is just truly made 100% on the computer.

• 57:38Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 57:38Speaker 01

  Using Claude code and using... I don't know what the other system was.

• 57:42Speaker 00

  Open Claw? It's probably a harness.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  So, I want you to try both. Are you allergic to anything?

• 57:48Speaker 00

  Nothing.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  Amazing. So, and we have another one too.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  That's a whole nother thing, being allergic. I'm kidding. Kidding.

• 57:56Speaker 01

  So, I want you to try a bite from each.

• 57:59Speaker 00

  You got it.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  And you say which one is bakery, which one is generative AI.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Should I use my hands or is Luigi gonna hook us up with a spoon?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  I think we have a knife.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Knife.

• 58:08Speaker 01

  There's no fork?

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Luigi's coming.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  Luigi?

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Let's see what he's doing.

• 58:18Speaker 01

  There he goes.

• 58:18Speaker 00

  There we go.

• 58:19Speaker 01

  He made these.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Wait, let's do it again.

• 58:25Speaker 00

  I'll take, I'll take the pasta fork.

• 58:28Speaker 00

  I am not fucking fancy. I will eat the pasta fork with the cake. I'm immigrant, we only had one fucking fork back in the day.

• 58:37Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 58:40Speaker 00

  Only one fork in the house?

• 58:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, we can't find one.

• 58:43Speaker 00

  You're lucky I'm an immigrant. This is how we did it. Alright.

• 58:48Speaker 02

  Tell me how you like the cake?

• 58:49Speaker 00

  The AI cake or the regular cake?

• 58:52Speaker 02

  I don't know, do you want to taste each one?

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Yes, sir.

• 58:54Speaker 01

  Taste each one and decide which one is made with AI?

• 58:57Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  And it's not the recipe, it was made with AI, all the ingredients, everything was generated.

• 59:05Speaker 00

  Uh huh.

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Now try this one.

• 59:14Speaker 01

  It's an explosive. Don't worry about it.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  That's the microwave.

• 59:17Speaker 00

  I feel like that was the AI.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  This one's the AI?

• 59:20Speaker 00

  This is the AI.

• 59:21Speaker 01

  You're correct. See, we're getting there, but it's very close.

• 59:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, I actually prefer it. I'll keep the AI cake. You can have the regular, you got it.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Actually, Luigi, can we take these cakes and swap it out for the AI apples?

• 59:34Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 59:35Speaker 00

  We have the AI apples?

• 59:36Speaker 01

  So we made, we've been training this model on trees from Brazil.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  And they make fruits that are pretty much identical. And we're gonna have the same thing again, where you try two apples, one is real, one is completely AI.

• 59:50Speaker 00

  Incredible.

• 59:53Speaker 00

  Are we gonna start a business around the AI apples?

• 59:55Speaker 01

  That's just what the plan is. It's just seeing if it's realistic.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  What are you gonna call the business? I got one.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  How do you like them apples?

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  This guy's the best. That's why he does this shit.

• 1:00:05Speaker 00

  It's branding.

• 1:00:06Speaker 01

  You know, I went to your office, I couldn't believe it. We gotta talk about VaynerMedia. We will.

• 1:00:14Speaker 02

  These are the apples that you requested.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  So you're telling me one of these is a real apple? A real boy?

• 1:00:22Speaker 01

  One is a real boy.

• 1:00:23Speaker 00

  And one is AI?

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  One's completely AI, down to the stem and the seeds. And the seeds work.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:00:29Speaker 01

  They don't grow big apples.

• 1:00:33Speaker 00

  Fun fact. I really ate a fuckload of apples as a kid.

• 1:00:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:38Speaker 00

  It's my mom's favorite fruit.

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Take another bite of each.

• 1:00:51Speaker 00

  This is the AI apple, and this is the real apple.

• 1:00:54Speaker 01

  You're wrong.

• 1:00:54Speaker 00

  What?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  You're wrong.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Get the fuck out of here.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  AI apple.

• 1:00:58Speaker 00

  This is the AI...

• 1:00:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:59Speaker 00

  Dude, get the fuck out of here! That is the most insane apple I've ever had in my life! Bro, you're sitting on a billion dollar company!

• 1:01:06Speaker 01

  So let's work on it.

• 1:01:07Speaker 00

  Okay, okay, sorry. You alright?

• 1:01:09Speaker 01

  This is Uber, part 2.

• 1:01:11Speaker 00

  I'm not passing on this one.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Part 2, man. You want to do a coin flip for a half a million dollars?

• 1:01:16Speaker 00

  Yes. Heads.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  Fuck, I hope I win this.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  You called heads for me.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  No, I did not. You owe me a half a million dollars. Call, I'm making you pay. Alright.

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  Handshake agreement, you're gonna actually take that up illegally and cause me problems.

• 1:01:36Speaker 01

  Um, we'll talk about it.

• 1:01:38Speaker 00

  So you were at Vayner's office?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was just... You know, I know you from the internet.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  I didn't realize the mass of the company. All the employees.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  This is the funniest thing going on in my life right now. Like, all my friends make fun of me. They're like, "You accomplished this business insane empire." VaynerX, Vayner Sports, Vayner Want My TV Production Company, VCR Group with the restaurants, V Friends. All these things going on in my world, and no one knows about it because you're just the motivational speaker on social. And I tell them all the time, I'm like, "That's fine."

• 1:02:12Speaker 01

  I think it's fine.

• 1:02:13Speaker 00

  You know, like, I'm not building my companies for the accolades. I'm building them for myself, for my family, for my teammates that work with me, and so it is enjoyable when people come through and they're like, "What the fuck is this?" I'm like, "My company."

• 1:02:28Speaker 01

  Oh, it wraps around.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, we have...

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  It's like a spiral.

• 1:02:30Speaker 00

  I mean, VaynerX, which is Vayner Media, Chuck Media, and Tamara Group, and Vayner Speakers, the four companies and the holding company, Tingley Lane 5. You've got 2,500 employees. It's, you know, it's a real business.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  Real deal.

• 1:02:45Speaker 00

  It's a real deal.

• 1:02:46Speaker 01

  You started with your brother?

• 1:02:47Speaker 00

  I did.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  So what was...

• 1:02:49Speaker 00

  My brother was graduating college, he's 11 years younger than me. I was at that point that I just talked about where I was like, shit, I gotta do something else. My brother and I originally were gonna do a fantasy sports business, cuz we love that world. But then I started getting asked by big companies to come in and speak or consult, because I had a lot of followers on Twitter in 2009. I couldn't believe that I could walk into a big company that I loved, by the way, at the time, and still, ESPN. Spend an hour pontificating about what I knew, consulting, and get that kind of money. And so I walked out of Midtown's office and called my brother. He was still at BU wrapping up, and I said, "Bro, I think we should start..."

• 1:03:31Speaker 00

  "A consultancy," is what I called it, not even an agency, for big brands, cuz I think they're all starting to realize this social thing's gonna go. And I think it's our easiest way, quickest way to getting some revenue versus a startup. And that's how Binner Media was born.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  That's amazing. What was your first car?

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  My first car was a 1976 Monte Carlo with a huge dent in it, cherry red, that I bought at a garage sale for $550.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  Wow. Did you flip it?

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  I did. I actually did. I actually made some money on that. Probably, maybe like, three years later for like, $2,000, because it was starting to get a little more classic. I should've probably held on to it.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Have you maintained friendships from college and childhood? You still talk to people?

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  That is my core friend group.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 00

  Is the kids I grew up with. Yeah, I'm one of those.

• 1:04:25Speaker 01

  And how often do you see them? Casually? Like, how often do you get a call, you say, "Hey, let's eat some food and hang out"?

• 1:04:31Speaker 00

  Not a lot.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  I work too much, and then that means that my time then goes to family and then friends. My college friends live all over the country. My high school friends, I see a little bit more. And then my Jets and Knicks friends, I see the most, because I go to sporting events. And those are kids that are either from my childhood or I picked up along the way and are insanity of sports fandom. But for example, my college friends, I probably speak to every day on the group thread.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. WhatsApp, iMessage?

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  iMessage. My friends are not very international. They're pretty ghetto kids.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  Yeah. That's how we like it.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  How important is starting a family?

• 1:05:13Speaker 00

  For me personally, massively. You know, for the masses, I think everyone has to make their own decisions, but like, you know, I have two children. Anyone who has children can tell you like it's challenging and all the things, but like, it's crazy, especially now. My 13-year-old son is my best friend, and he's like,

• 1:05:34Speaker 00

  "It's so crazy to have someone you love that way." You know? And I'm very weird, in a good way. I'm in the small group of people who love their parents so much, that the delta between loving their parents and children is not very great. You know, a lot of people unfortunately did not have the best parent situation, so when they have children, it's like this outlet, right? For that love. For me, I'm so fortunate that I have it on both sides, but there's just something... Do you want to have children one day?

• 1:06:05Speaker 01

  I would love to.

• 1:06:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:06:06Speaker 01

  I'm trying.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Actively?

• 1:06:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:06:09Speaker 00

  In a good way?

• 1:06:10Speaker 01

  I don't know how you define "good."

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  Well, freaky?

• 1:06:12Speaker 01

  As much as I can.

• 1:06:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. And how's that going for you?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Not good.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  Why?

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  You have a creep face.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:06:18Speaker 00

  We established that.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  It's not the face, I don't know.

• 1:06:20Speaker 00

  Well, you know, this show might become this platform for you of real opportunity.

• 1:06:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got a woman I think is very special.

• 1:06:26Speaker 00

  Oh, you're locked in?

• 1:06:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:28Speaker 00

  Ish?

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  I'm locked in.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  Locked?

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, like Paris style.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, I know, I'm proud of you. Anyway, when you have children, this part of the segment will make a lot more sense. It's truly, truly

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  a thing in life that you can think about it, you can think you're part... You're one of six siblings, you think you understand it, you're the oldest of four other siblings, you're mature for your age, but until you have a child, you have no idea what that feels like. And then for me, I'm in this really cool chapter where when your child becomes your friend too, and you gotta be careful, because I think one of the issues with modern parenting is trying to make your kids friends, instead of being friendly with them and be their parent, but when your child has similar interests than you're hanging, it's fucking different, bro.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  How motivated are you by love?

• 1:07:37Speaker 00

  Very.

• 1:07:39Speaker 00

  In fact, if you break down this interview, I think most of what I've been talking about is... I love love so much that I can't wait for it to become clear to a lot of people in the world that it always defeats hate. Because right now, people think hate's winning. You like sports?

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Not really.

• 1:07:58Speaker 00

  That's weird.

• 1:07:59Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 1:07:59Speaker 00

  That's right. Let me explain to you sports.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Please.

• 1:08:02Speaker 00

  Sports is amazing because, let's just use basketball. You could be down 18 going into the 4th quarter and you can win that game.

• 1:08:11Speaker 00

  Right now, I think hate is leading love by 18 going into the 4th quarter. But I know love's gonna win. When it hits triple zero. I'm very motivated.

• 1:08:22Speaker 01

  Buzzer beater, love?

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, you like Star Wars?

• 1:08:26Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:08:27Speaker 00

  What the fuck is going on here? What are you into?

• 1:08:29Speaker 01

  I wasn't allowed to watch TV as a kid.

• 1:08:31Speaker 00

  Is that true?

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Speaker 00

  What were your parents thinking?

• 1:08:34Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 1:08:34Speaker 00

  Hippie shit?

• 1:08:35Speaker 01

  No. My dad works for FedEx.

• 1:08:37Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:38Speaker 01

  He loved shipping packages, stuff like that. My mom's a typist.

• 1:08:42Speaker 00

  But why weren't you not allowed to watch TV?

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  I just didn't watch it.

• 1:08:45Speaker 00

  Oh, you were allowed to, you weren't interested in it?

• 1:08:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:48Speaker 00

  What did you do?

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  Well, I watched TV. I didn't watch movies.

• 1:08:51Speaker 00

  Okay, respect. You were a TV show guy?

• 1:08:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, cartoons.

• 1:08:53Speaker 00

  Cartoons. What was your favorite cartoon?

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Eddo and Eddy?

• 1:08:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course. Classic. Anyway. Sports, love, buzzer beater. I was about to say Star Wars. I think Star Wars has it framed right, which is the Jedis versus the dark side. It's a thin line. They're both very powerful. Love and hate are both very fucking powerful. But fucking bro, in the end, love is gonna win. And always does. I'm incredibly motivated by love. I would argue that I've put fucking 15, 20 years on wax, on digital receipts of pure love, often packaged as motivation or business advice. But I'm who I am. I root for people. I'm even more of a lover behind the scenes of my content, meaning I'll always be there for people. I always want to step in.

• 1:09:39Speaker 00

  If I can, I want people to win. I even, even though I'm competitive as fuck, when I see other entrepreneurs, like you know this, this is what's so interesting about the 1%. I'm blown away by watching other winners shit on other winners. Cause they're jealous, cause that winner made a little more, the girl's a little hotter. And I'm like, why? Like, why don't you have the capacity to know that you're fucking amazing? And it's okay, and by the way, it's also a long game. Just cause someone's winning right now, like, somebody might invent some shit tomorrow, or start a new business, like, it's, I don't know, I just, I, I really root for people. I root for people heavy. I root for the extremes of people, people really struggling, really motivate me. I want to get them the fuck out of that darkness.

• 1:10:21Speaker 00

  And then even, what you may not know, brother, is this 1%, 2% of winners? They're fucking unhappy too, man. There's a lot of envy, a lot of jealousy, a lot of like, am I washed up? Do I not, like, all this stuff, and so, yeah, I'm very motivated. Honestly, that was one of the best questions I've ever been asked in a podcast or interview in my career. I do not believe anyone has ever asked me that before. And I, I could argue, it is my biggest truth.

• 1:10:52Speaker 00

  And by the way, I take no flowers for that. I am only motivated by that because I was instilled with so much love for my mom. Right, like, I am just a carrier. I want, anybody who just watched, I'd be like, that guy's cool, I'm not cool, my mom's cool, for putting that so deep in me, that I don't even fucking know how to see the world another way.

• 1:11:12Speaker 01

  You ever feel misunderstood?

• 1:11:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Speaker 01

  What is something that you're like, come on, guys?

• 1:11:16Speaker 00

  Hustle. Like, we talked about it. There's just a lot of fucking people that think I'm like, hustle, hustle. I, I just never understood, that was always, that was because my energy of making my, like, I get it. Hey, motherfucker, like, I get it. But I was always fascinated at people's inability to see the words I was saying versus the energy. Cause I'm like, you like wrestling?

• 1:11:37Speaker 01

  My brother did. I know, I know the references, go ahead.

• 1:11:40Speaker 00

  Okay, like, most of the fucking content I make is like a fucking Macho Man Randy Savage, fucking WWF promo cut.

• 1:11:49Speaker 00

  You know, like what you're gonna do, like you know like

• 1:11:51Speaker 01

  Is he the dream of the kraut guy?

• 1:11:52Speaker 00

  He's the, bro, I'm proud of you. There we go with the pop.

• 1:11:56Speaker 01

  Watch from the sideline, man.

• 1:11:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, that was unbelievable. He literally had a cup of, like literally the

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  That's a great idea.

• 1:12:03Speaker 00

  And then he had one that was even crazier when he was Mean Gene and he was like, "Mean Gene, there's a plane going by and I'm not on it." I was, I don't know why I thought that was so funny. Anyway, I think I'm misunderstood about that. I also talk predominantly about business and entrepreneurship. I am the most detached from my financial success and my notoriety success. And yet, if I'm from the outside and I've spent no time knowing me, I would think that Gary Vee and how I do in business is my whole life. That, I understand. That's easy for me to understand. The hustle, like burnout at all costs to make money, that has been baffling to me that people, um...

• 1:12:45Speaker 01

  Take that from what you're saying.

• 1:12:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:12:47Speaker 01

  What do you think about depression as an excuse, or?

• 1:12:49Speaker 00

  No, no, no. I, I think many people weaponize mental health and depression because they're entitled and lazy. But I think there's an extraordinary amount of people that are actually struggling with chemical imbalances and, and real issues. In fact, this is not talked enough about in society, and I will use this massive platform to say it. I think one of the most alarming things going on in the world, and I think people should be ashamed of this, is people that are absolutely weaponizing mental health and depression and anxiety to be lazy are actually making it cloudy for all of us in society and making it harder for us to know who to help that's actually dealing with something.

• 1:13:31Speaker 01

  You think medication's good, or get through it other, in other ways?

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  I'm not, I'm not educated enough to pontificate on the balance between... Spiritual work, meditation, food. I find it unlikely that some level of medication doesn't work for some people. I think like anything, everything in balance is at its best. I think there's millions that are probably properly micro medicating and it's working wonders for them. I'm so happy for them. And then I'm devastated to know that many are wildly over medicated. And are probably double struggling because of that.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  You struggled with drinking too much soda.

• 1:14:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:14:14Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:14:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:14:15Speaker 01

  So what do you think pushed you in your life to pick up the cup?

• 1:14:20Speaker 00

  That's a great question. I did drink in a shock. Do you know how weird my soda... Again, I'm immigrant. I used to, when I was like 11, by my bed at night would be a warm 2-liter bottle of Coca-Cola. And I would, you know, like when you wake up and like normal people might have a glass of water, all of us. I would literally swig from a 2-liter plas... I mean, it was fucking crazy.

• 1:14:43Speaker 01

  Squeeze it up?

• 1:14:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro, the 80s were wild. Anyway.

• 1:14:49Speaker 00

  I was 30... I will tell you exactly what made it happen. I was 38 and a half. I'm talking like I'm 6 and a half. I was 38 and a half. I was 38 halfway through my 30, going on to 39. I was flying from Houston back to New York. I was, just gave a keynote. I flew in that morning, spoke and left. Which is why I respect the people that fly in and fly out for work. And my head was on the window. And I just decided that, holy shit, I'm not healthy. Like I don't work out, I don't eat well. And now I'm 40, right around the corner. I'm like, you know what? Fuck. And by the way, this has been brewing in my head, but this was the moment.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:15:29Speaker 00

  I'm like, you know what? Fuck it. I'm gonna, on my 40th birthday, I'm gonna change everything.

• 1:15:34Speaker 01

  But on that flight, you ordered 2 or 3 sodas?

• 1:15:37Speaker 00

  It gets more interesting.

• 1:15:38Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:15:38Speaker 00

  I did not. And by the time I landed, 3 hour flight or so to New York. I decided halfway through the flight, I'm like, why the fuck am I waiting to 40? I'll do it at 39. And by the time I landed, I just talked to myself.

• 1:15:52Speaker 00

  I remember I was listening, I was, I was listening...

• 1:15:57Speaker 00

  God, what was I listening to? I was listening to something. I think it was Carter 30. I don't know. I was listening to an album over and over on repeat so that I could just think. And I just remember thinking when I landed, "Fuck it, I'm gonna start now." I called a former trainer, Mike Vacanti, and said, "Hey, do you know anyone?" Because I'd figured something out. I finally got to a financial place where I could hire somebody to travel with me. And I realized on that flight that I was not accountable to myself with health and wellness, but I'm very accountable to people. I love being a leader. I love being a leader for my employees. What if a trainer was my employee? I wouldn't want to let him down. That was my hack. I figured it out. And it ended up what happened. I called him. I said, "Do you know a kid?" Because he had trained me like,

• 1:16:42Speaker 00

  I skipped like 30 out of 35 sessions with him. And so, but he had a lot of clients. So I said, "Do you know anybody, a young kid like you that might want to be with me full-time?" And he said, "What about me?" I said, "Of course." So we got together the next day. And literally, a week later, I started. And literally, for the last 12 years, I've had a babysitter. And the first thing that he wanted me to cut was soda. And the only thing I thought I was not gonna cut, I thought I was gonna be able to cut candy, baked goods, carbs. I thought pizza, fries. I thought I was gonna be able to cut everything but soda. And it was the reverse. The only thing I've been able to completely cut for sure has been soda. And I still like, when I break, I break for soda. I'm obsessed with soft carbs.

• 1:17:25Speaker 01

  I love soft syrup.

• 1:17:26Speaker 00

  No, soft carbs.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Have you ever seen a flying saucer?

• 1:17:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, everyone has.

• 1:17:31Speaker 01

  Um, what are you eating that day now?

• 1:17:34Speaker 00

  You know, this was weird. I tend not to eat until dinner. I grew up in a retail store, so I don't eat during the day. But I eat, you know, I try to have my protein. My wife is a very clean eater. Like, no oils. Like, everything's like grass-fed. No seed oils for her, no chemical. Like, so I've become very educated in the last five years. So I try to eat protein and veggies and the good shit.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  Good.

• 1:18:13Speaker 03

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• 1:18:36Speaker 05

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games! Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 1:18:41Speaker 06

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 1:18:44Speaker 05

  Film for IMAX.

• 1:18:45Speaker 06

  Make them remember you.

• 1:18:48Speaker 05

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Leaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 1:18:55Speaker 04

  And also, if at any moment you want to do that knock, you can ask a question. I like the idea of, I mean, however you feel comfortable doing it, but like it's just like a slow knock when you're looking forward and then you slowly turn around. But when you knock, it's a signal, Mike, to turn towards you. If at any moment, when that does happen, just slide the, uh...

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Paper.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  What is your death row meal choice?

• 1:19:21Speaker 00

  I just got done pontificating about clean.

• 1:19:25Speaker 00

  I think...

• 1:19:26Speaker 01

  It's the last one.

• 1:19:27Speaker 00

  I think it's either Wingstop or White Castle Sliders.

• 1:19:34Speaker 01

  Grave Case 30?

• 1:19:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro, I can fucking crush that thing.

• 1:19:37Speaker 01

  That's good. I love those.

• 1:19:39Speaker 00

  They're so good, man. So greasy.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  Okay, this is the last question. This question...

• 1:19:49Speaker 04

  Let me ask something and then...

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:19:50Speaker 04

  Or you want to ask it first?

• 1:19:51Speaker 01

  I'm just gonna ask this. This question makes no sense at all.

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  Come on.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  But answer it with such like...

• 1:19:55Speaker 00

  Seriousness.

• 1:19:56Speaker 01

  Like such intensity?

• 1:19:57Speaker 00

  Uh-huh.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  You know, I would argue today that the kids are much younger than they were when you were growing up. And they got AI, smartphones, computers at home, computers in their bags, laptops. Is it even possible?

• 1:20:13Speaker 00

  Oh, it's very possible. They're the youngest we've ever seen. Their level of immaturity and their like wah-wah...

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:19Speaker 00

  Is, I don't know, like the 15-year-olds of 30, 40 years ago were fucking 15.

• 1:20:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:26Speaker 00

  The 15-year-olds of today are 6.

• 1:20:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:29Speaker 00

  1 plus 5, you understand?

• 1:20:30Speaker 01

  And you think...

• 1:20:31Speaker 00

  Did you understand what I did there?

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:32Speaker 00

  1 plus 5.

• 1:20:33Speaker 01

  6. So, do you think that it's important to have a smartphone?

• 1:20:37Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:20:38Speaker 01

  Do you think smartphones are gonna be here in 10 years, or are we going glasses?

• 1:20:41Speaker 00

  I think we're going glasses within, I think the decade, that's the right number, 10 years. That's gonna be huge for you.

• 1:20:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:47Speaker 00

  Cause it's on brand, you've already locked in that you wear glasses.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:20:51Speaker 00

  This is a huge competitive advantage for you.

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  I'd be texting, what should I ask Gary now?

• 1:20:54Speaker 00

  100%.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  You know? Alright, I'll ask something.

• 1:21:00Speaker 04

  And then I think too, I think if you were looking for like straightforward, how like when you're doing that. Like mysterious? Yeah, like a knock, like a slow knock, and then you slowly turn. Alright.

• 1:21:10Speaker 01

  Should I be mid-question, you cut me off?

• 1:21:13Speaker 00

  I think it's a good, I think it's a good idea.

• 1:21:14Speaker 04

  He can have his.

• 1:21:15Speaker 00

  Oh, he can add it.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:21:16Speaker 04

  I gotta kinda interrupt you. Alright, so I should knock still, right?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  I'll just be drinking wine.

• 1:21:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, slow knock. Wait, wait, one second, like this, start on.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Okay, I'll be in there.

• 1:21:31Speaker 04

  What's the point of it all?

• 1:21:36Speaker 00

  That's a very.

• 1:21:37Speaker 04

  No one appreciates anything at the end of the day.

• 1:21:40Speaker 00

  Well, even you saying no one, is you missing the point of it all.

• 1:21:46Speaker 04

  And what's the point?

• 1:21:47Speaker 00

  The point is making yourself happy with the ease and simplicity of life. If you're looking for outside validation, you'll always be stuck.

• 1:21:58Speaker 01

  That's my cousin.

• 1:21:59Speaker 00

  He's a good kid.

• 1:22:00Speaker 01

  He's a great kid, I mean, he's here all the time, I try to tell him, hey, look. Pursue it. He's a fashion designer. He's amazing.

• 1:22:09Speaker 00

  Did you know?

• 1:22:10Speaker 04

  They don't know, they don't appreciate all the hard work, they don't know all the hours it takes, all the days, you don't wanna wake up. You wanna lay in bed, you know?

• 1:22:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think, brother, and I love you, and I, I think you're on to something, I'm telling you. Once you get your sentences to not start with "they",

• 1:22:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:22:28Speaker 00

  And you start focusing your sentences on "I".

• 1:22:32Speaker 00

  A lot can happen. Like, when you make the design for you. When you create the hoodie, or the socks, or the scarf for you. Right? When you work for you.

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  When you have, you understand?

• 1:22:48Speaker 01

  I needed to hear that.

• 1:22:49Speaker 00

  I'm glad, brother, because that's real shit.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  I needed to hear that. It's the passion. I need to fall in love with it, creating, you know?

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, bro.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  That's what it started from.

• 1:22:57Speaker 00

  It oozes out of you. But where you're caught, and this whole generation's caught on, and by the way, boomers are caught in it too, is when it's "they", you're fucked. Because you're not in control of "they", but you're very fucking in control of "me" and "I". You understand? You're welcome, brother. When you asked me that question, it like shook me. I was like, "Holy fuck", like a part of me while I was answering you. I don't know how many of you have like two sides of your brain, but I was answering him, and another part of my brain was like, "Fuck, that might be the question that I've always asked someone to ask me", always wanted someone to ask me. I get asked a lot, actually, in podcasts and interviews like this. "What's the one question you wish someone would ask you?", and I never know. It's, I've never felt it.

• 1:23:40Speaker 00

  I'm always like, "Oh, I don't care about that. I just care about answering the questions for the audience", but when you fucking asked that question, I was like, "Fuck, that might be the question I've been waiting for someone to ask me", because this whole love-hate thing, this whole Star Wars framework, you all know. We're all living in society right now. Like, people are fucking angry and scared, and it's all been put in people's heads by a small group of people that are using it to control people, and it, and love is fucking liberating, bro.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. Good, I'm glad, I'm glad.

• 1:24:12Speaker 00

  I'm proud of you.

• 1:24:12Speaker 01

  Proud of you.

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  I'm proud of you.

• 1:24:14Speaker 01

  I love you.

• 1:24:15Speaker 00

  I love you a lot.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  I love you so much.

• 1:24:18Speaker 00

  I love you much more than that.

• 1:24:19Speaker 01

  I'm looking at this menu here, see if there's any dessert I want. But I was thinking, has anyone ever, you know, have you ever gotten the feeling that someone tried to intentionally guide you into the wrong direction?

• 1:24:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  And you were like, "That mother..."

• 1:24:32Speaker 00

  I mean, I would argue, I would argue...

• 1:24:36Speaker 00

  A lot of people have done that, not in like some awful way. You know when I got it a lot actually? When I started in the wine business. There's a really famous, the first time I got real press. The Star Ledger in New Jersey, the Jersey paper, you know what I'm saying Louis? The Jersey paper. Like this is the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal of New Jersey, the Star Ledger. And they do a huge piece on me. This is a big fucking deal to me. I made it, I'm like 25, 24. And they asked me an interesting question, I told a story about a year earlier when I started running the wine store. The biggest distributor, the people we buy from, came and met with me. And he was like the guy. Everyone thought he was the most brilliant guy in the liquor business.

• 1:25:19Speaker 00

  And he sat down with me over lunch, just like this. And he said, "Kid, I think you got it", like he was gassy. And he said, "But you gotta remember one thing.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  In a liquor store, there's service, there's selection, and there's price. Right? How do you service the company? How many different incredible selections do you have in your store? And what do you sell it for? And he said, "Remember, if you want to be successful, you gotta be good at two out of three of them." And he like left, and he was trying to make some big profound statement. I was fucking 22, I'm sitting there, this guy's like 60 at the time, legend. At least in the liquor business in New Jersey. And he walks away, I'm there by myself, just in my own thoughts for one second, and I'm like, "The fuck's the matter with him? I'm gonna do all three. The fuck would I only do two out of three for? I told that story in the Star Ledger.

• 1:26:15Speaker 00

  They asked me, I think, "What's the worst advice you ever got?" And I told that story. He sent me a handwritten note. A week later, after the article hit. And he's like, "I know that's me, and like, you were right." It wasn't that he was guiding me in the wrong. He just didn't want me to become very big, because then I would have more power in the industry.

• 1:26:39Speaker 00

  It was selfish, but it wasn't like catastro... It wasn't like "Come over here, kid, and do drugs." A lot of people, most people try to guide you into a place that's better for them.

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  Keep you at bay?

• 1:26:51Speaker 00

  Maybe, or they have a hole in their heart and they need something from you, or a million other things. I actually never get upset about that. I'm actually deeply empathetic to that. That is the flight of man. Like, people do worry about themselves. I don't judge that. But it never tricks me.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  I love it. Thank you, man.

• 1:27:12Speaker 00

  Thank you. Hey, everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention, and, uh, thanks for being part of this show.

• 1:27:22Speaker 05

  Welcome to the 50th Hunger Games! Witness the beginning of the revolution.

• 1:27:26Speaker 06

  Hey Mitch, you've been trying to take down these games from the start.

• 1:27:29Speaker 05

  Filmed for IMAX.

• 1:27:30Speaker 06

  Make them remember you.

• 1:27:33Speaker 05

  The Hunger Games: Sunrise on the Reaping, November 20th, rated PG-13.

• 1:27:37Speaker 00

  Journey. See you later.