Pod Insights The GaryVee Audio Experience How to Start Using AI for Your Business About this episode In this episode of The GaryVee Audio Experience, I sit down with Rashawn Dhanraj of Adobe Brand Studio and Grace Kao of Snap at Cannes for a panel on AI and creativity. I unload on why the industry is doing AI wrong — bringing subjective audacity and insecurity to the tools instead of curiosity and awarding itself for work that doesn't move the business. I get into why strategists have the biggest upside with AI, why the algorithm is just consumer attention, and why media and creative should never have been separated.
You'll learn about:
• AI as a Thinking Partner (Not a Magic Button)
• Why Strategists Have the Biggest Upside
• Why Media and Creative Have to Be Reunited
• Mastering AI Is Like "Mastering the Internet" in 1999
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 The algorithm, first of all, is just consumer attention. So on the record, I am only making things to feel feel fuel the algorithm because my interpretation of the algorithm is if it gets views, it can only get views if it's actually relevant to customers, not the industry. Two, on the record, I have a brand called V Friends, which is like a Disney, Pokemon, Marvel world. We are faster and the creative is better. So AI, when used properly, is going to be faster and is going to be better if you define better as content that actually gets views, that sells product.
0:43 Speaker 00 This is the Gary Vee Audio Experience.
0:47 Speaker 01 I'm really honored to be here to talk about AI and creativity. It's sort of the topic of the moment. We spent a lot of time thinking, but also writing about this topic. And we've got a great panel. I'll just introduce in a second, but our our sort of thesis about AI and especially brands right now is that this can is sort of like the inflection point where brands go from curious tinkers to actual developers and programmers regarding AI and creativity. So I think that's a really interesting, you know, place where we should start. We have speed and scale, but is that useful, really, ultimately, when you're trying to reach consumers?
1:32 Speaker 01 And then you've got brands who, again, are starting to lean more into it. It's sort of broken from the fear and fetish cycle that they've been with AI and creativity. They're actually doing some really interesting things. So but let me introduce the panel and we'll get right into it. We have Rush Sidhu, who is the VP Adobe Brand Studio.
1:51 Speaker 02 Yeah, man. Yeah.
1:56 Speaker 01 Grace Kao, who is a CMO of Snap, and then, of course, Gary Vaynerchuk, CEO of VaynerMedia. Okay, so let's start with an all-play. What are people doing now with creativity and AI that really isn't useful? What are they stuck in terms of legacy behavior that they need to break from really quickly? Gary, do you want to start?
2:19 Speaker 00 Sure. I'm always excited to talk about what people are doing that's useless, which is a shocking percentage of everything that's happening here this week.
2:31 Speaker 00 My early read on what I'm seeing, and let's maybe break down this, because I think this will frame up the conversation. There's this industry, which is very corporate, Fortune 500. You have to be incredibly empathetic of what these new tools mean, the legal departments, compliance, blah, blah, blah. Then you've got, let's call it, smaller businesses that are going from zero to 50 million in revenue, and the way they're using it, and then human individual creative people, solopreneurs. I think the thing that our industry is doing poorly is they're not extracting the advantages of AI as a thinking partner.
3:15 Speaker 00 They're just basically doing what they would have done in a conference room with magazines and Post-it notes and markers, which looked like, let's all ideate and come up with some creative work. But what it was code for is one or two of us, at the end, are just going to make what we want to subjectively make, and we're going to waste a lot of time and money and energy. And they're bringing that same energy to AI, which is, they're basically imposing, they're not coming with curiosity or creativity. They're coming with subjective audacity and insecurity, and are just using the AI to make the thing that they want to make,
3:59 Speaker 00 thus rendering this extraordinary tool and toolset useless.
4:05 Speaker 00 And that is the biggest mistake that's being made. It's not what they want you to think. All the creative agencies out there, they're going to pontificate to you with the hopes that you write this. They're gonna say, AI slop, and it's not high fidelity, and it doesn't have soul. That's not the problem. Almost all of advertising is slop, long before AI came along.
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4:58 Speaker 00 What the issue is, is not using the tools to the magnitude. And I would say, looking at our wonderful Global Chief Strategy Officer, I would say strategists, even more than creatives, have the biggest upside to use these tools. As someone who self-identifies as a strategist, when I have a hypothesis or a curiosity of what consumers are doing, I used to spend hours and hours and hours using the internet, whether it was Reddit, or Google, or social media, to sharpen my consumer insights. The ability to use AI to get to real answers quickly. I'm asking such crazy prompting, like in the late 40s,
5:42 Speaker 00 what happened in cosmetics that made, I mean like really crazy shit that I could only dream of, coming up with after 15 hours of research is now getting to better answers in 15 seconds, which then becomes foundational to whatever creative interpretation I want to make. So it is not the AI slop. It is not using the tools properly.
6:06 Speaker 01 Grace?
6:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, just building off what Gary said, I think where there's an over pivot on the tool itself, like we're talking too much about the tool and being in awe of the tool versus still holding us all at a higher standard of what we're creating, you know? I, I think that there's just too much conversation regards like AI made this, did AI not make this? Versus actually still having everything that we've always been in the industry for is like, does it still hold up to the standards of us as a creative industry?
6:37 Speaker 00 Well, I, I would say, if I may, Grace, if I may, because that was really interesting, that last part, our, that last part is something I can't get out of my head, which is how much of the energy of this whole week is about us making work for us, right? Held up as a creative industry.
6:56 Speaker 02 Totally fair.
6:56 Speaker 00 Right? Like to me, what just like burns me inside is like, I don't know about all of you, but I think marketing is supposed to help a business grow.
7:05 Speaker 02 Yeah.
7:07 Speaker 00 And so I think, I think it's a good point, and I think that's where, I think it's an important point that you made, but when it goes too far, this industry makes for its industry. We're about to give ourselves a bunch of awards for work that did not help our businesses.
7:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, totally.
7:23 Speaker 00 Is anybody else like weirded out by that?
7:25 Speaker 02 Yeah. Yeah, but we've been doing it for over 20 years. Yeah, I'm like, I like.
7:29 Speaker 00 But doing wrong shit for a long period of time doesn't mean we should keep doing it.
7:33 Speaker 02 But now's the time to say with what's happening with AI, now's the fucking time to say stop. Because as a creative, and funny story, Grace is my old boss at Snapchat, I'll tell you what the problem is for a creative. Trained as a graphic designer, came through the whole industry, loved the internet, self-taught, Brit, West London, inner city London, and I tell you what the fucking problem is for every creative is all of you marketers, our bosses, they're like, hey, Rash and your wonderful creative team, now AI is here, press that fucking magic button, make stuff faster and make it look fucking great. Nothing is faster and everything looks like shit. And so it all falls on the creative teams to go, well, what, what is actually happening right now?
8:16 Speaker 02 And the thing we should pull back from is say, why are we making the stuff we're making? Ask the question, why? Why are we making it right now? And if you don't have a reason why, because does it, does it actually impact your business? Or does it actually, are you actually closer to what is happening in culture and your audience? Or you're just making stuff to feed the algorithm?
8:37 Speaker 00 Yeah, but I would say the algorithm, first of all, is just consumer attention. So on the record, I am only making things to feel, feel, fuel the algorithm. Because my interpretation of the algorithm is if it gets views, it can only get views if it's actually relevant to customers, not the industry. Two, on the record, I have a brand called V Friends, which is like a Disney, Pokemon, Marvel world. We are faster and the creative is better. So AI, when used properly, is going to be faster and is going to be better. If you define better as content that actually gets views, that sells product.
9:21 Speaker 00 Everybody, I hope you're enjoying the podcast right now. Make sure you follow the podcast. That's why I'm interrupting. Let's keep going on this show, but follow the podcast. It'll make my mom super happy. If you consider better, a creative director at Droga5 pontificating out of fear if they think it's better or worse, it will be worse.
9:41 Speaker 01 Resh, what is, from your perspective, what is broken in the creative process that people aren't paying enough attention to?
9:49 Speaker 02 I think two things are really interesting right now from creative teams. And I just, I just left Grace and joined Adobe for this particular reason, for this moment right now. Because I don't think, I've spent a lot of time building amazing creative teams, all different types of creative teams that have adopted different technologies, regardless of the technology, whatever came. I think diverse, very kind of, you know, hybrid mindset creatives can build amazing things. I do truly believe that. What I'm seeing is two things, is obviously AI is great for creatives because it means creatives don't have to do the busy work. I call it the busy work. The stuff that used to take hours to do, we don't have to do that.
10:31 Speaker 02 Question is, okay, so what do you so here's the thing, people think that creative roles are gonna disappear. They're not gonna disappear, they're gonna change. If you take one thing away, your creative teams, their roles will change, not disappear. Everyone's like, we don't need creatives anymore, Ash. I'm like, alright, give you six months and when you come back to me, I can bet you a million dollars you will. Because creatives now can be better strategists, better thinkers, and they get closer to culture, closer to the work. They have more time thinking about the ideas and the things that they really need to solve, why AI can do more of the mundane stuff. That's the first thing. Second thing is, as businesses, you need to build the infrastructure.
11:12 Speaker 02 So we're hiring new roles. We're hiring what we are calling builders, system builders. Because if you want your businesses to implement AI, you have to bring in production ops and system ops. Because the creatives aren't gonna do that. We need to focus on the work and the creative. So we've actually hired production ops to come in at Adobe and actually streamline and think about what tools are we gonna use? Do they work? Do they make sense? Do they actually make the process better?
11:41 Speaker 00 I assume you're gonna use Adobe tools.
11:42 Speaker 02 All of the Adobe tools. But also, you know what? I think we have to really think about the the Adobe tools are great, we're also customer zero, like as a creative, how do we make them better? So we can make everybody's workflows really good.
11:56 Speaker 04 But I would say, Resh, when you say production ops and system ops, which I completely agree with you, do you also feel that as a creative, you will also be able to do those yourself?
12:05 Speaker 02 I think creatives are gonna have to grow that. Bleep up, because you really have to be thinking about what is my role? I call it this new breed of creative. What is my role right now? You don't have to master AI tools, and if anyone is saying they're a master, if you say you're a master, I'm like, fuck you, you're not. No one's a master.
12:23 Speaker 00 I love the F-bomb.
12:23 Speaker 02 Because because the tools, I don't know, just get it spicy, it's alright. Uh, we're all friends.
12:28 Speaker 00 It's all, I'm trying to.
12:28 Speaker 02 But it's like mastering that, it's not from mastering the tools, it's just like being fluent in the tools, understand what they can do for you.
12:35 Speaker 00 I I'm sorry to interrupt. The uh. The concept of mastering AI tools, there's a lot of youngsters here. There's a couple of us with gray hairs. There, this is gonna, especially if you're under 40 or about to laugh. There was people in the late 90s that are like, "I've mastered the internet."
12:52 Speaker 04 It's so true.
12:53 Speaker 00 Like, like, to your point, there's no mastering. Like, the concept of AI is like, no different than the concept of having a computer or having the internet. This is oxygen. There'll be no conversation of like, AI in the way we talk about it today in five years because it's gonna eat up all the oxygen.
13:13 Speaker 04 Like, like digital creatives?
13:14 Speaker 00 Correct. It's like, always the same thing.
13:17 Speaker 01 Grace, brands are creating more content than ever. I mean, it's a tsunami of content, but is more content better marketing?
13:26 Speaker 04 Oh my goodness. You know, it's a trick, I, I, I am vibing what Rush is saying, as well as Gary. It's like, I think everything isn't gonna, there's not gonna be a disappearance of creative people. There's not gonna be disappearance of marketers. It's just that it's gonna all evolve. And I think it's gonna put a lot of pressure on all of us as individuals that we have to actually be multi-talented. You aren't gonna be just one function. You should be able to be able to do all these different things. But I think what I also love and vibe to everything is that even though maybe our roles are changed, there'll be fundamental things about our industry that still work, which is having a great human insight, having great briefs, holding up to high standards, us kicking the tires, us giving each other shit when the work is bad. Like, that, those foundational things still need to exist.
14:12 Speaker 01 Gary, earlier in this year, you were one of the first people to say, "I don't really wanna talk to the CMO anymore. I wanna talk to the CFO." How does that translate to getting better creative out of brands?
14:26 Speaker 00 I don't know if it translates to getting better creative. I think the last two questions are interesting. First of all, what is better creative? Yeah. Right? Second of all, is volume a good thing? This town will say it's a bad thing. I will remind this town that 60 years ago, there was no content. That if, if they're mad at volume of content, they're part of the problem because the last 20 years created way more content than there was ever before. It's called evolution. Shit changes, distribution changes.
14:59 Speaker 00 The reason I talk to CFOs is, and talking more to CFOs, is CFOs, right now, in the world, CFOs are on group chats with each other, making fun of everyone here. They think this is a joke. They're fucking pissed. There are many people that are not here, that were supposed to be here. We got emails from them, because their business is getting soft, and their CFO told them they're not allowed to come. The reason we're talking to CFOs is, in this moment of AI, social becoming primary, not churchery, there's a lot of confusion in the ecosystem, and CFOs are very aware that they're wasting a lot of money, and they don't like that.
15:44 Speaker 00 The reason I like talking to CFOs is, the theme that I've been bringing to this panel is, we can pontificate about ideology, but to remind everybody, like, marketing, why am I in love with marketing? I'm in love with marketing because even if your product, even if your product, objectively, by 8 billion people's standards, is inferior, it is communication and relevance that can actually help you grow your business to outsize your product offering. That is profound, and it's why it's so important. CFOs are starting to really put the screws at a tight level that I've seen over the last 20 years,
16:27 Speaker 00 to ask their CMOs to start really proving, you know, brand lift study, like, how many more meetings can a CFO sit through, where the CMO's like, "Great news, brand lift studies are greater than ever, our consideration is up, we just want a canned lion for most creative." He's like, "Motherfucker, we're down in sales."
16:49 Speaker 00 So, I think the shit's hitting, and this is why I'm so passionate to talk about this, because now I've been doing this a long time, you start caring about the people you do business with, and the rubber's about to hit the road. And maybe they won't, they're not gonna replace CMOs with AI, but they're definitely gonna replace their CMO with a CMO that understands how to use AI. And like that, this is an important moment in the industry and we, we need to wake up because drinking fucking rosé to one o'clock in the morning here and being like, I came up with that campaign 13 years ago, it's not gonna cut it.
17:24 Speaker 02 But, but Garrett, to your point, I think they're gonna replace CMOs who still can't own, move the business, right? It's, it's not alone just understanding AI, you still need to move the business.
17:33 Speaker 00 By the way, no CFO, by the way, I, on the record, quote it, I could give a fuck about AI. I care about what it might mean to move the business. I don't care about creativity, I don't care about AI, I don't care about the big idea, and I equally deeply care about all of them, but only measured and scored by business, not-
17:54 Speaker 02 I'm gonna call you out.
17:55 Speaker 00 Please.
17:56 Speaker 02 You care about creativity, look at this place.
17:58 Speaker 00 I'm gonna call you out for not listening.
18:00 Speaker 02 You ca-
18:01 Speaker 00 Look, did you hear what I said? While you were yapping to him that you were gonna jump in-
18:04 Speaker 02 What did I miss?
18:05 Speaker 00 You missed.
18:05 Speaker 02 Dammit!
18:06 Speaker 00 Let me help you.
18:07 Speaker 02 You care, you care.
18:08 Speaker 00 I'm gonna help you-
18:09 Speaker 02 I've been at VCon, you care.
18:11 Speaker 04 I'm kind of with Rush, for someone who doesn't care about creativity, Garrett, you're excellent.
18:14 Speaker 02 Yes, exactly, that's my hope, you care, it's cool.
18:17 Speaker 00 By your inability to hear what I just said.
18:19 Speaker 02 I know, I missed it that way.
18:20 Speaker 00 Let me say it again while you were yapping.
18:22 Speaker 02 Say it again, say it again.
18:23 Speaker 00 I don't care about AI, I don't care about creativity, I don't care about the big idea, and I equally care about creativity, AI, and the big idea, as long as it drives the business.
18:33 Speaker 02 I didn't hear that, that's right.
18:34 Speaker 00 I know, because you were telling him what you were about to do, which I love, because I do that shit too.
18:38 Speaker 02 Yeah, dude.
18:39 Speaker 00 But I am able to both listen and talk.
18:41 Speaker 02 Tell you what, though, the best creative teams do drive business. The best creative teams actually care about the details.
18:48 Speaker 00 Of course!
18:48 Speaker 02 The best creative, and I think, but here's the thing, but creative need, creative teams need better mentors. They don't need the douchebags drinking rosé at whatever time, talking about their 10-year-old campaign. But creative teams need better creative mentors right now to be able to say, yes, come up with a great idea, but care about the insight, care about the problem. And look, did it actually move the business?
19:08 Speaker 00 That part.
19:09 Speaker 02 You failed.
19:09 Speaker 00 That part.
19:10 Speaker 02 We've been doing that.
19:10 Speaker 00 But listen, with all due respect to our wonderful industry, that does not have enough oxygen in the room, and there's multiple reasons. One, and this is a good article for your world- We must talk about what happened in the late 90s when media and creative got separated into two different agencies, right? See that? Right? That's at the crux of this. Once it became this.
19:36 Speaker 02 And not as fun.
19:37 Speaker 00 And that's why, if you look at all the Plexos in the room, like, brands that built from the modern trenches, creative and media were together, measured against a business result. And we put all those brands on a pedestal, Gruen's, Liquid IV, they all do the same thing. Media and creative together.
19:55 Speaker 02 It's really interesting. You know how we're thinking about Adobe and the creative team? So, you know, Lauren, Stacy, Heidi, and me, and they're like, "Come and think about what this new creative era is. Like, look at the teams. The roles are changing, different roles. We're beginning to think now like a media company, like an entertainment company." And when you start beginning to think like, "Oh, like that," you start thinking about the roles and the type of work that you're doing, and the type of mindset that you need in that. So, yeah.
20:18 Speaker 01 Okay, I'll play. I'll start with Gary. In service of your primary objectives, business objectives, what do organizations have to be brave enough to call bullshit on?
20:30 Speaker 00 The internal MMM.
20:33 Speaker 00 There's not one MMM or MMA in this entire town that's worth a fucking penny. It's a complete farce. The entire industry in media is based on borderline fraud, and everyone's completely full of shit and extracting money out of the biggest brands in the world, selling straight fucking Fugazi.
21:00 Speaker 00 It's scoring your homework backwards to justify television.
21:40 Speaker 04 I don't even know, how do I follow that? I think when we talk about bravery, maybe I will say, you know, on Snapchat, I'm still really inspired by this next generation of youth. Like, when I see the amazing consumers or youth culture that is happening, I am so excited. Okay, I'm also biased because I have a 15-year-old and 17-year-old. They're like the most positive, creative generation.
22:05 Speaker 00 Sounds like great mothering.
22:06 Speaker 04 No, I would try, I would try. And so I think that would be the only say is like for bravery. If you can look at this youth audience and seeing how brave that they are putting themselves out there, they're trying to make a living, like they're trying to stay positive.
22:21 Speaker 00 They're actually creative.
22:23 Speaker 04 That is correct. Yeah. And so I think it goes back to, again, some foundational things like look at your audience. Look at this next generation of people. You'll find the actual inspiration in humans.
22:38 Speaker 01 The bullshit question.
22:39 Speaker 02 I mean, the bullshit question is you've got to look at your current teams and people in there and say, the old god is dead and the new god is coming in and are you ready for it? You know, the king is dead, long live the fucking king. Or queen. Or queens.
22:56 Speaker 00 Everybody, if you enjoyed this podcast, please go back and look at the prior episodes. They're loaded. I appreciate your attention and thanks for being part of this journey. See you later.
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