Freakonomics Radio
Hosted by Stephen J. Dubner
If you think working from home offers too many distractions, just think about what happens at the office.
1,727 words · 8 speakers
Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by Southern New Hampshire University. The best investments are the ones you make in yourself, and no one knows that better than Southern New Hampshire University. With more than 200 online degree programs, no set class times, and low online tuition, Southern New Hampshire University is built to fit your life today and set you up for success tomorrow. Education is an investment. Why not make it a smart one? Apply for free at SNHU.edu/freakonomics. Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by Progressive. Whoever says saving money is hard doesn't know that new customers who bundle and save with Progressive save hundreds because switching your home and auto insurance is better than
cutting down on the things you love, like those iced lattes that help you get ready to face the day. So switch your home and auto to Progressive and see if you could save and keep sipping away. Get your quote today at progressive.com. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers. Not available in all states. Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by Mint Mobile. With Mint Mobile's summer sale, all of Mint's plans are $15 per month, even unlimited. Free yourself from big wireless and switch to Mint for high-speed data and coverage on the T-Mobile 5G network. To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to mintmobile.com/freak. That's mintmobile.com/freak.
Upfront payment, $45 for three months, $90 for six months, or $180 for 12 months. Plan required. $15 per month equivalent. Taxes and fees extra. Initial plan term only. Greater than 50GB may slow when network is busy. Includes up to 20GB hotspot. Capable device required. Availability, speed, and coverage varies. See mintmobile.com.
Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by ChatGPT. ChatGPT Work is a new way to work in ChatGPT. ChatGPT Work can pull info from across your apps and connect to your tools to help you create finished work. You can even automate work in ChatGPT with the Scheduled Tasks feature, and the whole time you stay in control. Put ChatGPT to work on your most ambitious ideas and projects. Get started at chatgpt.com by selecting Work Mode, available on Plus and Pro plans.
From APM, American Public Media and WNYC, this is Freakonomics Radio on Marketplace. Here's the host of Marketplace, Tess Vigeland.
It is Freakonomics time. Every couple of weeks, we are talking with Stephen Dubner, co-author of the books and the blog, about the hidden side of everything. Hello, Stephen.
Hey Tess, you having a nice, calm, peaceful, productive day at the office today?
It's a newsroom, Stephen. No such thing, right? Although we are in the dog days of summer.
Let me ask you this, Tess. You ever fantasize about just working from home instead? Maybe setting up a little radio studio in your living room and you could, you know, look at your scripts from your favorite easy chair? Doesn't that sound nice?
With my cat on my lap. Well, just between us, because nobody's listening.
Yep, yep.
Yeah, I think about it all the time, but I don't think it's going to happen.
Well, you know, bosses tend to have a kind of standard line of thinking here that, you know, left to your own devices, you'd spend all day, you know, watching cat videos or watering the garden, whatever.
Yeah, and?
That's why it's sometimes called shirking from home rather than working from home. But today, I come, Tess, bearing evidence that working from home might actually be a great idea.
I know you're talking to Stephen.
Patty, Patty.
Yeah, I know.
I'm on air.
I know.
Patty.
We need to fix this. We need to.
Stephen, I'm really sorry.
All right.
Patty, you need to give us a moment.
Yep.
Please, please continue.
Yeah, okay. So I wanted to tell you about an interesting experiment, okay, at a Chinese company called Ctrip. It's basically the Chinese version of Expedia, the travel website. It's based in Shanghai. The company's got about 14,000 employees. Here is the company's co-founder and chairman, James Liang.
The real estate in Shanghai is getting very expensive. We're thinking maybe we should move some people off home when the technology is ready. Then we thought, hey, this might be a very interesting academic subject if we can do it more scientifically.
Okay, so you've got a boss here who's thinking about saving on office rent by letting some people work at home. But Liang is not your typical boss. He was actually taking a break from running the company to get a PhD in economics at Stanford, okay? And that's where he met a labor economist named Nick Bloom, and they decided to set up this work-at-home option as a real experiment. So what they did is they recruited 500 Ctrip volunteers, employees, half of whom were then randomly selected to work at home for the next nine months, and the rest, which became the control group, they would keep working in the office. Now, here is Nick Bloom talking about what the company expected to get out of this experiment.
Their view is they'd save a lot of money on space, they'd save a lot of money on lower attrition, but they'd lose on productivity. In fact, productivity went up.
Productivity went up? You were working at home and your productivity goes up?
Exactly. Now, keep in mind, these Ctrip workers were essentially call center employees, okay? Not all jobs are as easily transferred to home as that. But that said, the home workers, the people who worked at home, were about 13% more productive than an equivalent group of office workers. Here's Bloom again.
And they also started and stopped on time because they didn't turn up late because commuting, or the plumber didn't turn up, or they were sick, et cetera.
Right, so some of the gains test came from people simply working more hours at home, but home workers were also more efficient. Now, you say, well, how can that be? Here is Bloom's explanation for that.
In the office, it's very noisy. You can hear the guy on the phone next door to you on the phone call the person across the desk, you know, crying because their boyfriend has just split up with them. It's horribly distracting.
Now, Tess, Bloom does make the important point that not all employees have the same preferences, of course. Some people, you and me, maybe, want to work at home and will perform better there. Others, you know, want to work in an office and will perform better there.
Right. So, Stephen, really what you're saying here is-
So Tess, are you coming in to say goodbye to the interns?
Patty, Patty, I'm in the middle of work.
They've got red velvet cake.
Well, despite that, I really need you to let me finish this interview. Sorry. I'll be right there. Really. Okay.
Sounds like you've got a little bit of experience with office distractions yourself, Tess.
Just a few, just a few cupcakes, but nevertheless.
Yeah. Now, that said, it would be naive to think that home workers don't also get distracted, but the evidence here suggests that as distracting as home may be, the office, as you've experienced today, is even worse.
Indeed.
And on a different dimension, getting to work can be bad for you, too. Okay? So here's Christine Hayner. She's a professor of public health at Washington University. She recently finished a study on the health effects of commuting.
So we found that people who commuted longer distances were less physically active, less physically fit, weighed more, and had higher blood pressure than people who had shorter commute distances.
Whoa.
So Tess, there you've got- We really need to sort this job listing out, okay? It's either the 22nd or the 15th of September. Would you make a decision, for heaven's sake?
Okay, let's go with the 15th.
Are we done now?
Yeah.
Okay, thank you. Okay. Stephen?
Tess, you ready to work at home?
I think I just might be-
Have I won you over?
Where do I sign up? Stephen Dubner, our Freakonomics correspondent, he puts out a podcast, too. You can get that on iTunes and hear more at Freakonomics.com. Stephen, we'll talk to you in a couple of weeks.
I hope so. Thanks.
On our next podcast, we talk about the shadow economy, that is, all the activity, legal and otherwise, that escapes the attention of the government and especially the government's tax collectors. Ever wondered how big the shadow economy is? Next week, we'll tell you on Freakonomics Radio.
Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by EverPure. Is the value of AI not living up to the promise? The problem is probably your data, not your AI models. When it's scattered across different systems, getting your data AI-ready is a challenge. You keep your AI waiting, and everything slows down. EverPure unifies your data, so you can see it, understand it, and control it all from one simple place and get it AI-ready fast. Unlock the true value of your AI at everpuredata.com.
Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by Ozempic. Innovation happens through rethinking what's possible. And when it comes to GLP-1s, Ozempic Pill does just that. Learn more about Ozempic semaglutide tablets, 4 and 9mg, by calling 1-833-OZEMPIC or visit ozempic.com to view the medication guide and ask your doctor what's possible with FDA-approved Ozempic Pill.
Freakonomics Radio is sponsored by US Bank Smartly Checking and Savings. You know, US Bank Smartly Checking and Savings are bank accounts that work harder for you. You get better savings rates, fee waivers, and rewards from day one, so you spend less time worrying about money and more on what matters. Sign up for US Bank Smartly Checking and Savings today at usbank.com/smartly. Member FDIC. Copyright 2026 US Bank.
This episode is brought to you by Charles Schwab. Is there a right time to sell a stock? Are you taking the right risks with your portfolio? Financial decisions can be tricky, and often your own cognitive and emotional biases can lead you astray. Financial Decoder, an original podcast from Charles Schwab, can help. Join host Mark Reapy as he offers practical solutions to help overcome the cognitive and emotional biases that may affect your investing decisions. Listen at schwab.com/financialdecoder.
Page updated September 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated
