Schulz's WWE Appearance, Israel’s PR Problem, & Sam Seder’s 20 v 1

YERRR Schulz got ambushed at WWE's Monday Night Raw by Logan Paul and it's now on sight for him, Ian Carroll is fueling conspiracy theories, Israel has a perception problem and, Stephen A has beef with LeBron. All that and more on this week's episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE 00:00 On sight for Logan Paul 3:00 Andrew still jumped on the top rope 5:37 Passing physicals + Face of Bad Sperm 8:18 Miles & Dave love story 9:44 Appreciating the Wrestling + Elite talent 17:15 Why is Mark lying? Never gonna WWE Champion 19:28 Macaulay Culkin was hype + Wrong MJ 22:05 Ribeye of the sky 22:57 Miles had a wonderful New Year's Eve 32:02 How much to reenact? 38:01 Feedback on "Life" 44:20 Overcorrection to Weinstein + Everyone knew 48:52 White lips + Dinosaurs aren't real 55:16 Menthols are amazing + Giving up for Lent 57:26 Sam Seder on Jubilee + Basis of our morality 1:16:26 Cuomo's comeback + Eric Adams is OUTSIDE 1:21:06 Ian Carroll's target 1:25:09 What are we getting out of support for Israel? 1:32:30 Perception is reality, Subversion + What is an Israeli? 1:46:55 Nuance is uncomfortable + Propaganda is dead 1:56:01 Hypnosis is fake + Mark's Show 1:59:01 Ye & Fake Rogan + Padel & Tennis holidays 2:04:49 Stephen A v LeBron 2:14:59 Ukrainian ceasefire + Conspiracy is king Follow us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/join/Flagrant Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Honey, that flu keeping you up?

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't got this.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  You need NyQuil Intense Flu.

• 0:35Speaker 03

  Undo your flu symptoms with NyQuil Intense Flu. The nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever, best leave with a flu medicine. You do got this. Use as directed, keep out of reach of children.

• 0:44Speaker 04

  What's up, everybody? Welcome to Flagrant. Listen, I just gotta start off the show by saying I did not know that that was gonna happen last night at Raw. I mean, Logan mentioned that, like, "Hey, I might like point at you," or something like that. And then this fucking Judas runs up on me and tries to make me lie to everybody at Madison Square Garden. If we were at, like, the Brooklyn Nets Arena, whatever the [__] that's called. Okay, I'll lie all day. I'll do whatever [__] you want for the wrestling, right? But not in Madison Square Garden. So I tell him the real, which I think you should do to someone who I thought was a friend. The guy invited me to his [__] wedding last week. So I have to tell him, like, "Listen, nobody's [__] here to see you. You're not even wrestling tonight." His ego is so fragile, he grabs me. He pulls me over in front of my wife. That's pretty emasculating. I just put out a special about how my balls don't work.

• 1:27Speaker 04

  And now I get bent over a railing in front of my wife. And in front of Dove. Both of them. Both of my wives. Both of my wives clutching their pearls.

• 1:35Mark Gagnon?

  Just say the word, man. If it's on sight for Logan.

• 1:37Speaker 04

  Yo, to be honest with you, I was shocked that you didn't pull up, bro. No, he tried.

• 1:41Mark Gagnon?

  I was a little too far back and, you know.

• 1:42Speaker 04

  We ain't far back. You were, like, second row or something like that. I saw you.

• 1:46Mark Gagnon?

  A little too much effort, you know?

• 1:48Speaker 04

  Honestly, I felt let down, bro. I felt let down. Because I had my boys right there. I had my boys right there. And I thought you were gonna jump in that ring. Thank God for AJ Styles.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  I mean, you're a diehard wrestler.

• 2:00Mark Gagnon?

  I've got that perfectly timed [__] AJ Styles.

• 2:02Speaker 04

  Well, when did you buy tickets? Say again? You bought tickets for this? Yeah, I bought tickets for it.

• 2:07Speaker 04

  I gotta take my calendar. Where did we buy it? Wait, wait, we bought the tickets for it. Like months ago? Yo, months ago, like the second it was announced, I was like, oh shit, Ross coming. When was it announced? I'm going to that shit. Like when who was fighting? When Seth Rollins.

• 2:22Speaker 04

  They were gonna be headlining Steel Cage match. Have you ever fucking seen a Steel Cage match? Never, I've actually never. Before yesterday? I've never seen a Steel Cage match. Yeah, and it changed your goddamn life. Yeah, I thought it was sick as hell, to be honest with you. Yeah, so did all of us, that's why 18,000 people were there. Okay, to see that, not Logan Paul, you fucking jerk. Okay, and you guys could have my back, you could have had your moment, okay? He got brand new Air Force Ones, he wasn't gonna ruin them for that.

• 2:45Speaker 04

  Why don't you take off your shoes like that little Asian girl wrestler that came into the ring? Man, this is good, got it!

• 2:53Speaker 04

  You know, that was the best. Mark got a video, that was cool. What? She was cutting her promo and she was just leaning into that accent.

• 3:01Mark Gagnon?

  She was going for it, though.

• 3:02Speaker 04

  And she slapped the shit out of those girls, man, I like that. I like that kinda energy. You saw the jewelry fly everywhere? Yup. Yeah, it was fire. Yeah, I like that kinda energy. Son, you saw Doug reaching for it?

• 3:16Speaker 04

  Jim.

• 3:20Speaker 04

  He's like that thing from Fantastic Beasts.

• 3:28Speaker 04

  Anyway, uh, nah, Logan needed to get his, bro, I ain't gonna lie, I thought that was crazy. Yeah, that was messed up. So, we'll see what happens.

• 3:34Mark Gagnon?

  He gotta check in when he comes back to New York?

• 3:36Speaker 04

  No, he gotta check in, matter of fact, I might go to your wedding now, I wasn't gonna go. But I might go to your wedding, I might hit you with a fucking suplex, okay? I also just like to point out something out for the historic record. I think I'm the only person in wrestling history to be, uh, pulled over a railing, thrown down on the floor, like a rag doll. Yeah. Rolled into the ring, put in a suplex, not officially suplex, and still jumped on a top rope.

• 4:04Speaker 04

  Nobody in the history of wrestling has done less to get on those

• 4:08Mark Gagnon?

  So you look at it, he was like, fuck it, I'ma go.

• 4:13Speaker 04

  I wasn't gonna do it, then AJ was like, yo, go do it, go jump up there, and I was like, eh, I ain't gonna ever get this opportunity.

• 4:19Speaker 06

  Nah, worth it though.

• 4:20Speaker 04

  Hell yeah.

• 4:21Mark Gagnon?

  It was worth it. Me and Miles was like, oh man, he's gonna hurt himself jumping down.

• 4:25Speaker 04

  I was like, he gonna pull something when he jumps down. There's a moment where I thought I was gonna catch my foot on the way up.

• 4:33Speaker 04

  I didn't know if you jump on the top rope or the second rope, and I was like, I thought about the top rope, I was like, ain't no way I can bounce on that motherfucker. I actually kinda like, went like this one, and uh, he went faceboard off it, scorpion.

• 4:48Speaker 04

  They gotta stretcher him out, dude.

• 4:50Mark Gagnon?

  He would've left looking like Rey Mysterio.

• 4:54Speaker 04

  So there was a match, I don't know if y'all saw that, when Rey Mysterio, he did that um, like jumped off the thing.

• 4:59Mark Gagnon?

  Isn't really him.

• 5:00Speaker 04

  I think it's like, uh, Shamu.

• 5:02Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:04Speaker 04

  You know how like Shamu, they would flip out with another Shamu?

• 5:07Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, I figured that.

• 5:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly, so they hit a fucking home deep, you know, whatever, and then you get one whatever city you're in. That's the mystery, that's the mystery.

• 5:17Speaker 06

  You never know who's under there.

• 5:18Mark Gagnon?

  There's no way, there's no way.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  That motherfucker is incredible, that dude's like 50 years old, and he did that one move, I don't know if anybody saw, I thought they were gonna stop the match. He did this one move where he like flips off, and he is like, ankles are supposed to go on the guy's neck, and then flip the person.

• 5:31Speaker 06

  Okay, yeah.

• 5:32Speaker 04

  He was on like the top bar.

• 5:33Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:34Speaker 04

  He does it, but when he's coming down, he hits his neck on one of the ropes.

• 5:40Mark Gagnon?

  Oh shit, oh I missed that.

• 5:41Speaker 04

  And like his head slams back, and I was like, oh, he's dead. A hundred percent dead. Son, so many times last night, I was blown away.

• 5:49Speaker 06

  Hero reaction the whole thing.

• 5:50Speaker 04

  I was blown away.

• 5:53Speaker 04

  I was blown. I felt like I was at like a Bonnie Blue meetup. There was.

• 6:00Speaker 06

  Ropes everywhere.

• 6:01Speaker 04

  When they're doing the punches and shit, you're like, alright, this don't really look real, like whatever. But anytime they're jumping off a ship, it is insane.

• 6:09Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:10Speaker 04

  Like, you still gotta land from 10 feet in the air.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  I don't know how these guys, I mean, I'm 41 years old, there's no way I could do this and then do anything the next day.

• 6:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 6:19Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, you rolled into the ring pretty good.

• 6:21Speaker 04

  My hip hurt. I did PT this morning.

• 6:24Speaker 06

  You're feeling it?

• 6:25Speaker 04

  Say what?

• 6:25Speaker 06

  Are you like, you feel good?

• 6:26Speaker 04

  Tell me, I'm alright. I'm alright.

• 6:28Speaker 06

  You, you look fucked up.

• 6:29Mark Gagnon?

  Cause he passed the physical, remember?

• 6:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, I passed the physical. You had to pass the physical. If you passed the physical, you can't get in that ring.

• 6:36Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly.

• 6:36Speaker 04

  Shout out to New York State Athletic Commission.

• 6:37Mark Gagnon?

  Let's go.

• 6:38Speaker 04

  Sometimes bureaucracy works. Okay, protect.

• 6:41Mark Gagnon?

  That's why I didn't jump in. I didn't want to get you in trouble.

• 6:43Speaker 04

  Cause you didn't pass the physical. Thank you, man.

• 6:46Speaker 06

  He did the physical, he didn't pass it.

• 6:49Speaker 04

  Pussy, bro.

• 6:51Speaker 04

  Big time pussy over there.

• 6:52Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, my juice, man, my juice.

• 6:53Speaker 06

  That's great. Was that the, when was the last time you got a physical? Other than last night?

• 6:57Speaker 04

  I think I had to get one for Netflix. I told him that shit. I was like, I was like, by the way, I already got a physical for Netflix.

• 7:05Speaker 04

  And he was like, yeah, I think it might be a little different physical.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  How come physicals in high school, they had to touch your balls? Do you remember that?

• 7:10Speaker 04

  No, they never did that with us. Mark, tell me, tell us about what happened when you were fucking high school. Tell us what happened when you were homeschooled about this physical you got.

• 7:17Mark Gagnon?

  So your priest gave you physicals?

• 7:19Speaker 04

  No, bro, it wasn't, no, it was not a priest. Every time I. Why is every school story so fucking traumatizing about you, bro?

• 7:25Speaker 06

  Did this not happen with you guys?

• 7:26Speaker 04

  No!

• 7:26Speaker 06

  Did you have to do physicals for high school sports? They would touch your balls?

• 7:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, if they did that, they would know my shit was just sitting at the bottom.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  So I'm the face of sperm that sucks.

• 7:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I know.

• 7:37Speaker 04

  You know how many dudes coming up to me on the street like, yo, I got the same problem? There was a dude on a city bike that literally hunted me down on the street just so he could be like, yo, my sperm sucks too.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  What do I do with that information?

• 7:52Speaker 06

  I mean, just dap him up.

• 7:54Speaker 04

  I did.

• 7:55Mark Gagnon?

  It's like when you do a, a advertise for AIDS and shit like that.

• 7:59Speaker 04

  Fuck you. I hope you get that shit.

• 8:01Mark Gagnon?

  You're Magic Johnson.

• 8:04Speaker 06

  That should be the marketing for Netflix. We should do a billboard. Like, like a, like an IVF thing, but just like your face.

• 8:12Speaker 07

  Shut up, marketing piece of shit.

• 8:14Speaker 06

  You're a real jerk and you're a real asshole.

• 8:16Mark Gagnon?

  All those years, you was complaining about how one bowl was just crazy big. Why did you ever get it checked out?

• 8:22Speaker 04

  Why didn't I get it checked out?

• 8:23Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, when you had that ball issue for mad long.

• 8:26Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know.

• 8:27Mark Gagnon?

  It made for great content on the pod for years.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, yes it did, but I, I, I think it's probably because I'm not like, uh, somebody on this podcast that tries to get his balls rubbed by every man in his fucking life.

• 8:36Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, tell us about that.

• 8:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, tell us about that.

• 8:38Speaker 06

  No, I, okay, Miles. And when you were in high school.

• 8:42Mark Gagnon?

  First person you go to.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Was it a Florida thing?

• 8:44Speaker 06

  I can't tell if you guys are fucking with me.

• 8:45Speaker 04

  Florida thing, okay?

• 8:46Speaker 06

  When you did a physical.

• 8:47Speaker 04

  Balls before David comes in here and slams on Miles's nose.

• 8:53Mark Gagnon?

  Miles gonna beat him to it. He's not scared.

• 8:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, David's in the building today, so we can talk about this little gay romance as balls.

• 8:59Mark Gagnon?

  I can't wait.

• 9:00Speaker 06

  You gotta fill people in for anyone that did it on Patreon.

• 9:02Speaker 04

  We hired three women in the office. I didn't realize that Miles was gonna fuck the guy who's already working here.

• 9:08Speaker 06

  Is that an HR violation?

• 9:09Speaker 04

  Well, I said, nobody harass the women. I said specifically to all of you, listen, there are women that are working here and there's gonna be no fraternizing with them at all.

• 9:17Speaker 06

  We have a rule.

• 9:17Speaker 04

  We need to respect. We have a rule. There's a rule. You cannot fraternize with the women at all.

• 9:22Speaker 07

  I'm a rule follower.

• 9:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 07

  I followed all the rules correctly to the T. I did not mix this up.

• 9:27Speaker 04

  So what are you trying, what are you trying to say?

• 9:29Speaker 07

  I'm just saying, you set a rule and I have not broke it. And I'm a good, I'm a good employee.

• 9:33Speaker 04

  And that you are a good employee. You do no wrong, but.

• 9:38Speaker 04

  Are you having a sexual encounter with David again by any chance?

• 9:44Speaker 07

  No, I, there were no, I did not have sexual relations with that as man.

• 9:50Speaker 04

  What'd you call?

• 9:51Speaker 06

  Ads man.

• 9:54Speaker 04

  That's what you, that's a nickname in a bathroom.

• 10:01Speaker 07

  It's like Mad Men.

• 10:03Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, fuck.

• 10:04Speaker 04

  Damn, Miles.

• 10:05Mark Gagnon?

  Are we gonna bring David in?

• 10:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, we gotta bring David in because the people know, right? We were talking about on a public episode.

• 10:11Speaker 07

  Nah, Patreon.

• 10:12Speaker 04

  Oh, it's Patreon?

• 10:13Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 10:14Speaker 04

  There's no way.

• 10:14Speaker 06

  It was on Patreon.com.

• 10:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, Patreon.com.

• 10:16Speaker 04

  Patreon.com slash Flager?

• 10:17Speaker 06

  I think so.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  Oh, my God, that felt like a shameless promo.

• 10:20Speaker 07

  That one exactly.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  It felt like a completely shameless promo. It felt like me showing up to WWE Raw.

• 10:24Speaker 06

  No, that was my special, Ken.

• 10:25Speaker 04

  That was real. Even though I bought those tickets months. When did we buy those tickets, Duff? Do you remember?

• 10:29Speaker 06

  2022.

• 10:30Speaker 04

  2022. You know what's funny about wrestling? Wrestling fans are like, I actually really like this about wrestling. So back in the day, there was this illusion that like wrestling wasn't scripted and all these like punches were landing, whatever. Now the base is so acutely aware that it's scripted. Now you don't have the facade. There's no like thing that there's no lie that needs to be told. Now you get to get them on story. But they appreciate, they know all the terminology. They know like babyface, they know heel, they know all that kind of stuff. They know like when you get a move done on you, it's called a bump or whatever. So, you know, they're seeing this thing happening and they're reacting to the thing as if it was a script, which honestly really hurt me because I didn't realize that this whole fucking thing was gonna happen in the first place.

• 11:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  You know, but and I felt, I felt.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  This is your close friend.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, this is my close friend whose wedding I was gonna not go to already, but now I'm really not gonna go. But I did get an invite.

• 11:24Mark Gagnon?

  Man, it's on site for him.

• 11:25Speaker 04

  It is on site.

• 11:26Mark Gagnon?

  Right, so.

• 11:27Speaker 04

  Okay, but I do appreciate the wrestling fans as well, I'm trying to say.

• 11:30Mark Gagnon?

  I was surprised to see the amount of adults there. I thought I was gonna see way more kids. Like, it was like maybe 5% kids.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  Mark and I are the only people that have kids in all of New York.

• 11:41Speaker 04

  And neither of them went. There are two toddlers in New York City and Mark and I own them.

• 11:44Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that's maybe it, but.

• 11:46Speaker 06

  The whole way Al kept on leaning over, he's like, yo, where are the kids, dude?

• 11:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're a fucking creep.

• 11:50Mark Gagnon?

  Al, what's that, Al? I was trying to keep him away from this guy.

• 11:53Speaker 06

  I was talking about physical. It's very strange.

• 11:56Speaker 04

  What were you guys takes on it? What was, what did you guys think about the whole spectacle?

• 11:59Speaker 06

  Oh, it's great. It's just like, it's nice because it's sports, but you're able to like interact with the athletes in an honest way.

• 12:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:05Speaker 06

  You know what I mean? Like if you go to like an NBA game, you can't talk all the shit you want to talk.

• 12:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 06

  Whereas like with these guys, you can go crazy and just like it's.

• 12:12Speaker 04

  They talk shit too.

• 12:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's fun.

• 12:14Speaker 04

  This motherfucker, one of these guys was talking crazy shit to me.

• 12:17Speaker 06

  Saying what?

• 12:18Speaker 04

  I watched your special, that shit sucked.

• 12:20Speaker 06

  That's crazy.

• 12:21Speaker 04

  Yeah. So now I'm like reflexive. My wife is right there, you insulted me and I'm like, hey, why you got knee pads on? And then the dude came up.

• 12:30Speaker 06

  He really got him.

• 12:32Speaker 04

  The guy comes back, the guy comes back afterwards and like, I'm, I'm like, I'm like trying to dap him up and he goes, uh, he's like, he's like, I can't, I can't slap your hand in front of all these people. Like he's really keeping up the k- thing, you know? He's like, cause I can't slap your hand in front of all these people, but I just want to say, I like you. You're a funny guy. And I'm like, oh, thank you. And he goes, I can't slap your hand in front of all these people. And I'm like, okay, you're a piece of shit. Like I didn't understand, I didn't know how to be angry and positive, you know? But it's, uh, yeah, the commitment to it.

• 12:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, dude.

• 13:00Speaker 04

  Also, you know what's, uh, what's, what's, this is the most embarrassing thing is, uh, when you're not in the action, you don't know what to do.

• 13:07Speaker 06

  Hmm.

• 13:08Speaker 04

  So like, I have a lot of respect to the people who aren't doing the thing. They're like on the sidelines, but they're like invested still. They're doing their little thing. They're like emotional or they just did a move on, someone did a move on them and they're like reeling, but they're committed to that shit.

• 13:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:20Speaker 04

  Cause there's a moment where I'm just sitting on the, the ropes. I'm like, so what y'all doing? Like, yo, this seat is fire. You gotta get this front row seat. Like, I'm just there and one point I just shook the ropes, I didn't know what to do.

• 13:32Speaker 04

  No one told me what to do in that moment. Not that there would be anybody telling me, obviously, cause I didn't even know it was gonna fuck me up.

• 13:37Speaker 06

  It's raw. It's Monday night raw.

• 13:39Speaker 04

  It's raw.

• 13:40Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 13:40Speaker 04

  It's raw.

• 13:41Speaker 06

  But there is a moment where you get thrown and you're like, huh, huh, huh. And then AJ comes in and you're like, all right, nice.

• 13:46Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:46Speaker 06

  And then AJ slaps you, you stand up, you're like, yeah.

• 13:48Speaker 04

  It's my deep breath.

• 13:49Speaker 06

  You're not injured anymore?

• 13:49Speaker 04

  Not at all. He gave me, he gave me the energy I needed.

• 13:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:53Speaker 04

  Tony, it's raw out there, bro. You're a 100% right.

• 13:56Mark Gagnon?

  That's amazing.

• 13:57Speaker 06

  What's up guys, world's fastest dates ever, okay? Don't fast forward, alright? We're gonna be at Mary Lou in New York City, March 25th. I'm gonna be in Portland, Maine, April 27th. I'm also gonna be in Bangor, Maine, on the 26th. And then a bunch of other dates are gonna be announced very shortly. We got Atlanta, we got Charleston, we got Indianapolis, we got Portland. Oregon will be later, Buffalo, Philly, and Raleigh. All coming up that will be available on my website, themaricaggon.com. And we'll see you guys there, thanks so much.

• 14:25Speaker 04

  Can you take that stupid picture of the three of us down? This is nice, I feel like this- Just my wife hiding from the camera. This is beautiful. Dove showing off his jawline. Looks good, honestly. Yeah. The other fans that were there were awesome, cuz we were with like, the hardcore- Yeah. Fans. And tell me their reactivity, what do they- Going crazy. And they're aware of all the storylines, they're aware of everything, like, okay- Yeah, and they're like talking shit, they're like, "Oh, we're on the road to WrestleMania, just get ready, after WrestleMania, it's gonna suck." Like, everyone's got like their own like directorial cuts of what should happen. Love it. There was one dude in the very front, so everyone that bought a front row seat, got a commemorative chair to take home with them.

• 15:02Speaker 04

  And there was-

• 15:04Speaker 07

  So like, if you, if you bought like the front row seats on the lining, they gave you a commemorative like WWE folding chair.

• 15:10Speaker 04

  With like the logo and stuff all-

• 15:12Speaker 07

  That had logos-

• 15:13Speaker 04

  So they're just getting you to clean up.

• 15:15Speaker 07

  Truly, yeah, truly.

• 15:15Speaker 04

  They find a way to get the fans to clean up.

• 15:17Speaker 07

  There's tons of fans walking out with chairs, and they're on their-

• 15:20Speaker 04

  And there's a guy in the very front in a wheelchair. Oh no. And they were like, "Do you want your chair?" And he was like, "Yeah." And they were like, "Alright, we'll take it," and he's like, "I can't, I'm in a wheelchair." And so, the management at MSG is like, "Take the chair." He's like, "I, I want it, but I can't, can you mail it to me?" And the guy was like, "Nah, I can't mail it to you." So now they're like trying to hang it on the back of his electric wheelchair.

• 15:39Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, I missed this.

• 15:40Speaker 04

  It's like a whole thing, he's there with his dog, the dog's barking at everyone.

• 15:44Mark Gagnon?

  Wheelchair with a dog, dude, that's fire.

• 15:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, he was like a husky, he was mushing, he was flying.

• 15:52Speaker 06

  You never see that. The disabled Eskimo, that's fire.

• 15:55Speaker 04

  What was your favorite match?

• 16:00Speaker 06

  I mean, Steel Cage is crazy.

• 16:02Speaker 04

  The ending with Roman Reigns?

• 16:04Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 04

  That motherfucker, like, there, certain dudes are just, they are it.

• 16:10Speaker 07

  He's like a superhero.

• 16:11Speaker 06

  I didn't get it until I saw him in person.

• 16:13Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, he has presence.

• 16:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, seeing it live, there are people that can really like command the energy and they like milk the energy. And also, there's a physicality to it. Like, he's a huge guy that's incredibly agile. And when he did that spear, or whatever the fuck it is, was like right in front of us, it was unbelievable. Also, the CM Punk and Seth Rollins dudes, this is another thing I look at, like, how much do you believe what's happening is, is, is really happening? Like, how much do you believe the pain that you're enduring is really there? Like, if you watch them, they believe it.

• 16:45Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 04

  They are 100% in. They're like sweating, they're exhausted, and we can kind of become part of that reality.

• 16:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 04

  If they actually commit.

• 16:56Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 16:57Speaker 04

  And...

• 16:57Speaker 06

  I mean, CM Punk's sitting in the cage as people are leaving. He was the last one to leave.

• 17:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:01Speaker 06

  I think he was just sitting in there the whole time.

• 17:03Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 06

  Just milking it for the next 35 minutes.

• 17:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's awesome.

• 17:06Speaker 04

  No, it was, uh, like, seeing those two guys, like, that was, that was really elite.

• 17:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 17:11Speaker 04

  Like, those, those guys probably doing it decades, but that was elite wrestling in terms of like commitment to that match.

• 17:18Speaker 06

  Oh, I mean, taking of, like, a suplex off the top of the cage.

• 17:21Speaker 04

  Nah, crazy.

• 17:22Speaker 06

  It's insane.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 17:23Speaker 06

  Like, the way the crowd reacts.

• 17:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's fine.

• 17:26Speaker 06

  I didn't realize how hard the canvas is. Like, it's like a hard, like, I thought it would be like springy.

• 17:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, you should see how hard the floor is.

• 17:34Speaker 06

  Wait, is it padded? I actually want to...

• 17:35Speaker 04

  No, it's not padded. My hip was a padded. Landed right in my fucking hip.

• 17:39Speaker 06

  It doesn't have like a little like...

• 17:40Mark Gagnon?

  It ain't got a pad. It's like a yoga floor.

• 17:43Speaker 04

  No, that shit is made out of concrete. They make it look like padded for the people at home, but in reality, for those of us, the professionals,

• 17:51Speaker 04

  for those of us who are actually professional wrestlers and been in that environment, it's harrowing. That experience is harrowing. For real, dude.

• 17:59Speaker 06

  You would make a great professional wrestler. I mean that.

• 18:01Speaker 04

  Listen, that's the last thing I want to do.

• 18:03Mark Gagnon?

  Why are you gonna lie to him?

• 18:08Speaker 04

  Before you make that decision, can you just kind of show you one move real quick?

• 18:13Speaker 04

  You're telling me, hold on Al, you're telling me that this doesn't induce excitement and crap? Let's go.

• 18:23Mark Gagnon?

  Like you shook it like it made noise.

• 18:24Speaker 04

  I didn't.

• 18:26Mark Gagnon?

  It felt like it is my instrument up there. It got us into it.

• 18:31Mark Gagnon?

  It got us into it.

• 18:33Speaker 04

  Wait, he beat Al, so I'm like, damn, man. I didn't know where to put my hands. I think I almost grabbed his tuchus.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  Thank God. Now, watch this, watch this, watch this. There you go. Ready? Hold on. Watch this now.

• 18:53Mark Gagnon?

  You was in it. You was in it.

• 18:58Speaker 04

  So now I don't know what to do. I'm just chilling at a bar.

• 19:03Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, you're supposed to be hurt in the corner, man.

• 19:05Speaker 04

  Yeah. So.

• 19:08Speaker 04

  I mean, awesome. That's crazy.

• 19:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that stuff is great.

• 19:10Speaker 04

  It's just crazy. Yes. So here's this moment right here where like, I want to dap him, but I don't, okay. So before that, I wanted to go dap him, but I didn't want to like mess up his celebration and just be out there like this.

• 19:23Speaker 04

  But he was great. Shout out to these styles, man. Well, we missed out on John Cena though. I was trying to see heel John Cena. Yo, we gotta see heel. I mean, like.

• 19:30Mark Gagnon?

  You should have snuck in like a leg drop or something, just something a bit surprising.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  I mean, that would have been.

• 19:36Mark Gagnon?

  It would have been hot.

• 19:38Speaker 04

  That would have been. That's the other thing. Like, I wonder if I did some extra shit, but it was, it actually worked out. I don't know if WWE would be that mad.

• 19:46Mark Gagnon?

  Why would they?

• 19:47Speaker 04

  But if it doesn't work out, yeah. That's even better though. Then I'm never gonna be WWE champ.

• 19:54Speaker 04

  And that's another thing that's probably really important. But not working out would be way funnier. You going up on the ropes and falling over scorpion on the ground. Through a table, ruin Rey Mysterio's whole match. But they'd be like, yeah, this is perfect. This is actually way better than what we thought was gonna happen. Yeah, dude. You versus John Cena, that's what I want to see. Hell, yeah, man.

• 20:13Mark Gagnon?

  Seeing Home Alone there, he was hyped. He loves his wrestling shit.

• 20:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, he really loves wrestling. He really loves. Macaulay Culkin?

• 20:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 20:22Speaker 04

  You didn't see Macaulay Culkin? No.

• 20:25Mark Gagnon?

  He was hyped.

• 20:25Speaker 04

  No way. I asked him about the MJ shit. You're lying. On the way out.

• 20:31Mark Gagnon?

  I'm the one who asks crazy questions. That's crazy. You can't ask about that shit.

• 20:40Mark Gagnon?

  Didn't they sleep together or some shit like that?

• 20:41Speaker 04

  What?

• 20:42Mark Gagnon?

  Didn't he do like sleepovers?

• 20:43Speaker 04

  He was physical, he got a physical. It's not anything weird, bro. So.

• 20:47Mark Gagnon?

  How do you ask that?

• 20:48Speaker 04

  I just, no, I just went up to him, I was like, it was a pleasure to meet you, like MJ fuck your butt when you were a kid, like.

• 20:54Mark Gagnon?

  And. Now, how'd you ask that?

• 20:55Speaker 04

  Like that, like that.

• 20:59Mark Gagnon?

  How'd you ask it for him?

• 21:00Speaker 04

  I asked him, I was like, yo, did MJ fuck your butt? Did he jerk you and other kids off? And he was like, he was like, yeah, that happened. I was like, how'd he do it?

• 21:14Speaker 04

  Nah, I didn't, I was supposed to, I just said, hey, a pleasure to meet you, what's up?

• 21:17Mark Gagnon?

  Damn.

• 21:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. What would you have said? Now you about to tell me your shit ass, right? I was like, yo, MJ, he's a legend, right? Two reposodas, what do you say to Macaulay Culkin?

• 21:28Mark Gagnon?

  Son, Michael, Michael Jordan.

• 21:31Speaker 04

  Was a legend, you know? I mean, both were legends, though. Both were legends.

• 21:38Speaker 04

  You would say that, you would go, yo, Michael Jordan.

• 21:41Mark Gagnon?

  Right?

• 21:42Speaker 04

  Michael Jordan did what to you? He'd be like, nothing. He'd be like, see, he proved it.

• 21:45Mark Gagnon?

  See?

• 21:46Speaker 04

  He's innocent. I'll be honest, the only thing that I don't like about WWE is the fact that we can't bet on it, okay? Yeah, that's kind of bullshit.

• 21:53Mark Gagnon?

  I thought it was Logan Paul, but.

• 21:55Speaker 04

  Also, Logan, there's two things I don't like about WWE. Okay, it's Logan Paul, okay, this part timer. Yeah. And of course, the fact that we cannot bet on it. And, uh, but luckily for us, there are plenty of sports that we can't bet on. Obviously, great UFC card. I mean, Justin Gagey is back in the fucking win column. Amazing fight against Fiziev, however he pronounces his last name. Yeah. Pereda versus Ankaliyev, that was wild. I did not see that coming at all. Yeah. I'm like, I need to have a talk with like Izzy about that. That was crazy. Anyway, plenty more UFC. We got Volk fighting in UFC Miami. I think that's 314. I think that's April coming up. That's gonna be wild. Um, that's a great card too. Plenty of ways where you can put some money down.

• 22:39Speaker 04

  Stake, by the way, is where you're gonna do it. It's the leader in global betting in US social casinos. Then on top sports and political events and use the promo code flagrant for your welcome bonus. Now let's get back to the show.

• 22:49Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, take this bird off.

• 22:51Speaker 04

  The sandhill crane.

• 22:52Mark Gagnon?

  His brother's eating majestic birds.

• 22:54Speaker 06

  Oh yeah, what is this? Situation? All the prisons are allegedly gay.

• 22:59Speaker 07

  Mark's plugging the fucking.

• 23:01Speaker 06

  I'm trying to get my views up. My bad, my bad.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Yo, shut out camp. Shut out camp.

• 23:05Speaker 06

  No, my brother called me and I was like, what are you doing? He's like, oh, I'm cooking up some sandhill crane. And I was like, what is, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, it's the rib eye of the sky. It's like one of the nicest cuts of meat that you can buy this side of Mississippi. So now he's gotten into exotic meats and apparently you can buy it online. It's super, super rare, very expensive. It's delicious.

• 23:23Mark Gagnon?

  Is it legal?

• 23:25Speaker 06

  I think it's legal.

• 23:25Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 23:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 07

  I killed one of those ones.

• 23:28Speaker 04

  Really?

• 23:28Speaker 07

  On a golf course. Did not mean to. I was like, there's no way I'll hit that one bird and square in the fucking head.

• 23:33Speaker 04

  But your friend said, yeah, I'll kiss you on the mouth.

• 23:36Speaker 07

  And I fucking smoked it.

• 23:37Mark Gagnon?

  Fucking turned into Tiger Woods.

• 23:41Speaker 04

  Hold on, we gotta get David here. We got, so, so I don't know if any of you guys have listened to the Patreon. Did we say exactly what happened? Not exactly. Alright, so on New Year's Eve, this is a very quick version of it. You can hear the full story in detail on Patreon, but basically on New Year's Eve, David allegedly says, yo, I wanna come kiss you, whatever, on, uh, when the ball drops. And then Miles is like, bet. And then Miles hits David up later because David hasn't followed up at all. And he goes, yo, by the way, you made a great decision to stay in. Like, it's rainy outside. Which to me, in retrospect, is like, you were, you fell rejected and you were like, I just wanna make sure that you're not out. And then David's like, alright, bet, I'll come kiss you, whatever, if you want that.

• 24:23Speaker 04

  And then, so he comes to meet you and you're already there with two other gay guys. You're hanging out with a bunch of gay guys.

• 24:29Speaker 07

  That's very true.

• 24:30Speaker 04

  And, uh, and then 20 minutes after the new year. So nothing to do with the ball dropping or anything, you guys share a kiss with your lips, one lip on top of like, like that.

• 24:42Speaker 06

  Also his birthday.

• 24:43Speaker 07

  No, no, 20 minutes, 20 minutes after my birthday.

• 24:46Speaker 04

  Okay, okay.

• 24:48Speaker 04

  So that is, that is, okay.

• 24:49Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, I forgot that part.

• 24:50Speaker 04

  Well, that's a birthday kiss. Okay, so David. Yeah.

• 24:53Mark Gagnon?

  That's special.

• 24:54Speaker 04

  I don't know how much you heard of what, how I just broke that story down, but is this, is this more or less true? Yeah, sure. A hundred percent. So again, did you feel a little bit like sad for him? Like you would like flippantly said, yo, we're gonna totally like make out on your birthday or whatever, like make out on New Year's, joking around. You don't follow up because obviously you're not gonna kiss Miles, right? You guys like work together. You're also both like women. And then he hits you up later in the night like. He does hit me up. Yeah, he goes, oh god.

• 25:22Mark Gagnon?

  What did you, did you not hit him up?

• 25:23Speaker 04

  Wait, wait, can I, can I ask Miles two questions? Yeah, please. Miles, your memory's bad.

• 25:28Speaker 07

  I was like a lawyer.

• 25:29Speaker 06

  That's not really a question, right?

• 25:31Speaker 04

  Would you agree that your memory's bad?

• 25:32Mark Gagnon?

  Leading the witness. Look at him dominating you, son. Now I understand why you like him. He didn't even ask a question. He said, Miles, your memory's bad.

• 25:42Speaker 04

  And Miles goes, yes daddy.

• 25:46Speaker 07

  I would say at times it can.

• 25:47Speaker 04

  Your memory's bad. Okay. And you would say my memory's phenomenal?

• 25:51Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 04

  Okay. I wanted to clarify that before.

• 25:53Mark Gagnon?

  It's easier to remember when you're hitting in front of a backdoor.

• 25:58Speaker 07

  Yeah, I tried to black it out, actually. I tried not to do that.

• 26:01Speaker 04

  Okay, so, all right, so your memory's bad. You, your memory's phenomenal. Okay, okay. So what do you think exactly is going down? So what happened was we were at dinner for Miles's birthday. Yeah. With Shifty. It was me, Shifty and Miles. And I was saying like, oh shit. I've had like a phenomenal streak of having a New Year's kiss for the last seven years. Yeah.

• 26:20Speaker 07

  Can I ask one question?

• 26:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, what's up?

• 26:22Speaker 07

  Uh, David, on New Year's Eve.

• 26:26Speaker 07

  I don't have a great memory, so maybe you can remember this really well.

• 26:29Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 26:29Speaker 07

  On New Year's Eve, have you ever kissed a guy besides me?

• 26:32Speaker 04

  No.

• 26:40Speaker 07

  Miles.

• 26:44Mark Gagnon?

  The worst fucking lawyer in history.

• 26:47Speaker 07

  He's lying on the stand. Yeah, I'm going to jail.

• 26:51Mark Gagnon?

  The worst.

• 26:53Speaker 06

  But also, this is my time to talk. On the talk. This is my time to talk.

• 26:57Speaker 07

  But you're lying on the stand.

• 26:58Speaker 06

  How can you prove that I'm lying?

• 27:00Speaker 07

  You've told me before that you're lying. Yeah, you just said that so you wouldn't suck his dick. I mean, he's alright, continue. So that's what you want to hear? Like, you guys are both talking about your fucking... He's lying.

• 27:13Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 27:13Mark Gagnon?

  Got him.

• 27:14Speaker 06

  God damn. Yeah, okay.

• 27:16Speaker 07

  You ain't doing that to Logan, oh shit.

• 27:21Speaker 06

  Alright, go, go, go. So I'm like, alright, my streak's at risk because the woman I was speaking to at the time was out of town. So I'm like, hey, Miles, if I see you around New Year's, I'm gonna go after it.

• 27:31Speaker 07

  As a joke or serious?

• 27:33Speaker 06

  It was kind of as a joke.

• 27:35Speaker 07

  Yo.

• 27:37Mark Gagnon?

  The fuck is kind of?

• 27:40Speaker 07

  What do you mean by that? Hold on, Miles, he might be back.

• 27:46Speaker 07

  Look at Brandon's face up there.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  Brandon is disgusted. I don't get you.

• 27:55Mark Gagnon?

  The fuck is kind of?

• 27:59Speaker 07

  He's a guy, man.

• 28:05Speaker 07

  So go on.

• 28:06Speaker 06

  So I'm out in East Village and I'm texting Miles, like, hey, I'm at this party, it's kinda ass. So after the ball drops, I'm gonna come to you, share with you your location. I go to the bar. Miles is at the back table with him, his girl, and then a gay couple. I walk in and Miles gets up and meets me halfway.

• 28:23Speaker 07

  Oh, no.

• 28:23Speaker 06

  So he initiated this peck.

• 28:26Speaker 07

  I initiated it by going five blocks out of my way and meeting me at the bar?

• 28:30Speaker 06

  I don't know, I was going there to say hi to you for New Year's.

• 28:32Speaker 07

  Oh, shut up.

• 28:37Speaker 04

  Shut up.

• 28:45Speaker 04

  I didn't Uber to you. I was, I was at Studio 151 on 10th and C.

• 28:49Speaker 07

  It's crazy. He Ubered to me and I stood up and he's like, you fucking.

• 28:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Now, some might say that you put more of a commitment into it, but you could also say that your excitement, right? Made you leave your table and, and you know, go, I'd never left my table and walked five steps to go meet a friend to come back, sit down. Like, that's a weird thing. I was on my, it was on the way to the L, so I'm like, I'll stop by. Yeah, you're on the way. Exactly. Miles went out of his way and met me in the middle of the bar.

• 29:16Speaker 07

  You went to a bar?

• 29:19Speaker 04

  So, okay, so he walks up, he grabs you by the waist.

• 29:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. Okay. And then we packed. Miles leaned, and Miles did the. Okay, yeah, yeah. So Miles did turn his head a little bit. So I was like, I was like this. You went straight. Yeah, yeah. No, but I not even straight. I kind of like tucked my chin in. Yeah, yeah. And then Miles went. Oh!

• 29:43Speaker 04

  No, Brandon, what are you thinking, bro?

• 29:46Speaker 07

  This is un. I thought y'all were bullshit.

• 29:51Speaker 07

  Just like, who else have you kissed besides me?

• 29:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, that does seem jealous, right there.

• 29:58Speaker 07

  He's lying on sand, this is untrue. I'm being slandered right now.

• 30:01Speaker 04

  Okay, so hold on. So, so you obviously are approaching David, right? Like, so David has a.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  I gotta dap him up. I gotta dap him up.

• 30:08Speaker 04

  That's not true. That's not true.

• 30:10Speaker 07

  Alrighty, hmm. And I was like, god damn, bro.

• 30:14Speaker 04

  Hold on, so you say, god damn, bro, get away from me. And then what'd you do?

• 30:19Speaker 07

  Then he grabs my face.

• 30:20Speaker 04

  That's not true. That's not true. That's not true. You grabbed his head?

• 30:23Speaker 07

  No, I couldn't get away.

• 30:25Speaker 04

  That's not true. He met me at the bar. Why would I initiate it if he's already walking towards me?

• 30:29Speaker 07

  You came to my bar. You gave a bouncer your ID. You literally go, are you old enough to get in here? And you're like, yeah, I am. And also I'm on a mission. You did a lot of steps to come see me. I'd been at that bar for hours.

• 30:39Speaker 04

  You were on the way to the L. Like, it was convenient for me.

• 30:43Speaker 07

  Convenient? That's crazy.

• 30:49Speaker 04

  Okay, who pulled away first?

• 30:50Speaker 07

  Me. I screamed out loud. No, I screamed out loud. I said, get away from me.

• 30:57Speaker 04

  How did they both downplay it?

• 31:01Speaker 04

  He was like, I'm.

• 31:02Speaker 06

  Like, "Case you, Beth, come through."

• 31:06Speaker 06

  Now they're both mad about it. Now they're both angry. Yeah, what went wrong, man? What happened afterwards? Yeah, this feels like something personal.

• 31:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, I feel like there's something else going on here.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  What happened to you the rest of the night? I went back with a girl to her apartment.

• 31:21Speaker 04

  And?

• 31:21Mark Gagnon?

  Because she was so horny.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  Did you guys end up hooking up at the apartment, you and the girl?

• 31:28Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:28Speaker 04

  And did you guys have sex?

• 31:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:30Speaker 04

  And did you think about David's face at all, sir?

• 31:33Speaker 07

  No.

• 31:34Speaker 04

  No images of it popped in, no like thoughts of the kiss at all during the entire sexual encounter? There's no point where, "Oh, that was funny when we kissed," or whatever?

• 31:41Speaker 07

  No.

• 31:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that was almost like a threesome, because she had both of y'all's salivas.

• 31:47Speaker 06

  That's a good point.

• 31:48Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 31:50Speaker 06

  Devil's triangle there.

• 31:51Mark Gagnon?

  What did the gay couple say about the kiss? Did they rate it?

• 31:55Speaker 07

  They're not.

• 31:56Mark Gagnon?

  No, queer guy, straight guy, shit like that?

• 31:58Speaker 04

  Did you share with the gay couple that you guys just had a kiss?

• 32:00Speaker 07

  I think they saw. I think they watched. They saw, yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 04

  So the whole bar saw?

• 32:05Speaker 04

  Was it a gay bar?

• 32:07Speaker 07

  No, straight bar. You fell in. What was the name of the bar?

• 32:09Speaker 06

  You guys tried.

• 32:11Mark Gagnon?

  They turned and not made one.

• 32:13Speaker 07

  It was a good bar. It was a nice bar. It was a good time.

• 32:15Speaker 04

  And then has it been awkward at all between you guys since? Have you guys?

• 32:20Speaker 07

  No, I wouldn't say so. No. Our relationship got stronger, if anything.

• 32:27Speaker 07

  No, we're great. We're very good friends.

• 32:29Speaker 04

  Do you guys think it'll happen again?

• 32:30Speaker 07

  No.

• 32:30Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 32:31Speaker 04

  Would you guys just do it now for funsies? He's like, "Would you guys do this?" No, no!

• 32:39Speaker 07

  They kissed in my own mouth once for like 10 grand and, uh... You said no to that? Yeah. For 10 grand? On the pod, yeah.

• 32:44Speaker 04

  Hold on, hold on. Would you guys, can we reenact it? Hold on. Can we reenact it? So one of you comes down the stairs, and then one right here, and then you just meet right in front of the foliage? One little peck, and then we just move on with the show? We have so much to discuss. Come on!

• 32:58Speaker 07

  No, because David's dad will kill him next time he sees him, and we can't have that on our hands.

• 33:01Speaker 04

  That's not true. It's just a fun little game. We'll blur it. We'll blur it.

• 33:05Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 33:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 33:06Speaker 07

  Can we do the thing that happened in the movie?

• 33:08Mark Gagnon?

  Put Miles in a wig. He got the hips.

• 33:09Speaker 07

  No.

• 33:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, damn, damn. Just give him Miles, someone to be insecure about. Got no chin, he got hips.

• 33:16Mark Gagnon?

  Son, he's not insecure about his hips.

• 33:20Speaker 04

  So that wouldn't be something that would make you feel comfortable at all? Like, we can show how progressive we are on the Flaker Podcast.

• 33:26Speaker 07

  We're all good. What's the number?

• 33:28Speaker 04

  What's the number?

• 33:29Speaker 07

  There's no number. What are you doing?

• 33:30Speaker 04

  There's a number. It has to be a number that you would do it for. It does make me feel he's more straight than you.

• 33:35Speaker 07

  It does.

• 33:36Speaker 04

  He's just like, this doesn't matter at all. I could do it for like 20 bucks or whatever you said.

• 33:39Speaker 07

  Yeah. His number is incredibly low, is my fear. His number is gonna be, I'll pay you to do it. I'll give you guys 20 bucks.

• 33:45Speaker 04

  So you did it for free or? Yeah, you already did it and the world knows. So we might as well just see you guys do it again real fast. No big deal. It's a fun little thing. It's wrestling.

• 33:55Speaker 07

  Hey David, David.

• 33:57Speaker 04

  It's everything's wrestling. It's a fun little thing. Gay fame.

• 34:00Speaker 07

  No, wrestling's incredibly real and this is fake, so it wouldn't be the, it wouldn't be right.

• 34:04Speaker 04

  Well, the kiss is, might be scripted, but you know.

• 34:07Speaker 07

  The love is pretty.

• 34:09Speaker 04

  Two grand. Two grand.

• 34:11Speaker 07

  What'd you do? The fuck, no.

• 34:12Speaker 04

  No, we're not gonna, I mean, there's starving kids in Africa, bro. We're not gonna give you guys two grand. There's a poor gay couple in this.

• 34:23Speaker 04

  I think it's a fun little game to play. Listen, you guys do it. Hold on, you guys do it and then me and Alex will do it after you.

• 34:33Speaker 07

  After is the most insane.

• 34:34Speaker 04

  We'll do it afterwards. We'll do it right afterwards. Guaranteed. We're gonna do it right after. You have, listen, and all the same, you have Alex's word.

• 34:45Speaker 07

  Alex in my life, I'll never. Never lie.

• 34:47Speaker 04

  Nope.

• 34:49Speaker 04

  So we're not gonna get any little peck? Just a peck! A peck!

• 34:53Speaker 07

  No.

• 34:54Speaker 04

  Right into the blue chouette. We do a peck.

• 34:57Speaker 07

  No.

• 34:58Speaker 04

  That's honestly great for this sponsor. That's a great, that's a great sponsorship.

• 35:01Speaker 07

  That's why I call him admin. But no, this would be a bad idea.

• 35:04Speaker 04

  Miles, come on, bro. For two grand, Miles. Each. Each two grand. We're gonna get, we're gonna, we're gonna put a GoFundMe or something. We'll have.

• 35:12Speaker 07

  No, I don't, but they're not gonna pay. No. David. No. Two grand, he's considering it.

• 35:19Speaker 04

  What's the number, Miles? It's gotta be a number. You're gonna say no to 25 hundo? 25 hundo for a peck, something you've already done?

• 35:26Speaker 07

  Damn.

• 35:27Speaker 04

  You've already did it.

• 35:27Speaker 07

  Yeah, this is how it happens in Hollywood, bro. This is Weinstein's hotel.

• 35:37Speaker 07

  There's no.

• 35:38Speaker 04

  Alright guys, let's take a break. Yeah.

• 35:40Speaker 06

  How's the feedback from Special been?

• 35:42Speaker 04

  Oh, that's been crazy, man. Thank you, everybody who watched it. I appreciate you guys so much for doing that.

• 35:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's just been really, it's been really awesome, man. We beat, we beat Robert De Niro. That was fire.

• 35:53Speaker 06

  Oh, hell yeah.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  Yeah, we Bobby D, we beat Drives to Survive. That was cool. Meghan Markle, Love is Blind.

• 35:59Speaker 06

  I think it's still charting on Netflix right now.

• 36:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. We're in the top three right now. So we've been, we've been vacillating. Fucking Kate Hudson and Chet Hanks, though. That's a, that's a banger of a show, bro.

• 36:08Speaker 06

  Chet Hanks, that's a tough one to go.

• 36:10Speaker 04

  He don't, he don't lose. That motherfucker never loses, man.

• 36:13Speaker 06

  Fucking Chet.

• 36:15Speaker 04

  Shout out to y'all, man. But yeah, it's just been, it's been so cool, man. Honestly, like, maybe, maybe the coolest part is just a lot of people who went through IVF and like way more harrowing stories than ours. Like sending me these like, these long DMs and shit. And I try to read them all and just kind of like about their experience. And then some of them will be like just laughing about it. And then some of these like really like emotional things that now they, they got to laugh at this experience that was like really brutal for them. Like people gone through it for 11 years. And then they would always end the message about like, you know, with their kid or just how excited they were to have their kid. And I think that's maybe the coolest thing is,

• 36:55Speaker 04

  like seeing how excited people are to have families and like just this unbelievable enthusiasm to like bring life into the world. And yeah, every message is like, I'm, I'm here with my one year old and I'm watching this shit. And yeah, it was, it's just a, that, that to me has been just unbelievable. Just incredible.

• 37:13Speaker 06

  Random people have been hitting me up like from high school that I haven't talked to in like 10 years.

• 37:16Speaker 04

  No way.

• 37:16Speaker 06

  Just being like, bro, just put on the special, crazy. Like, didn't know what to expect. Like, but we're going through the same thing right now. Like, I didn't even know this about them. Like, they're doing IVF. It's like popped up within like IVF community forums.

• 37:26Speaker 04

  Oh, that's fire.

• 37:27Speaker 06

  Like, some people send me links where they're like, yo, there's this forum. People, it's like 100 comments long, just people being like, this was our, like, he's just talking about our experience right now.

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Oh, that's so cool.

• 37:35Speaker 06

  So it's fire.

• 37:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. I'm getting DMs of people just like showing me their miracle babies of what they're saying. It's like, ah, I know you're probably getting that times a million.

• 37:43Speaker 04

  No, but.

• 37:44Mark Gagnon?

  It's awesome.

• 37:45Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:45Mark Gagnon?

  You touched people's soul with this one, bro.

• 37:48Speaker 04

  That, yeah, it felt, felt really good. I felt, yeah, I just felt really proud of it. You know, I was obviously proud of it before when you're editing it, but you're also, you're watching it so many times that you're like, you just lose sight of everything. You know, you're just like, is this even funny anymore? Like, and then hearing the reaction to it is very validating. And then like even having people say, I did not know what to expect. Like that, like a lot of people getting emotional at it. That was really cool. Just to make a piece, a piece of art that they could, you feel all these, the gambit of emotions. And, uh, yeah, I guess surprising people, like even articles that will come out where there are people who, they, you know, they definitely did not maybe expect to like something that I did. And they were maybe kind of offended by some of the topics.

• 38:34Speaker 04

  But the story penetrated past their, I don't want to call it like prejudice of me. But like this, this woman wrote this article and it was like really cool. And she had went through it and it was for like parenting magazine or something like that. But, uh, the jokes were not necessarily jokes that she would, would laugh at like, and that's fine. People have their different types of sense of humor. I don't care. But like, it's so, it's so cool. Like the story allowed her to laugh at some of the jokes and allowed her really relate to the journey. And I thought that was awesome. One for her to even feel comfortable saying that, like a lot of these people, even writing an article like that, they're like scared about the scrutiny.

• 39:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:14Speaker 04

  And so many people like terrified of like pissing off their publication or pissing off their community or whatever it is. But yeah, the fact that she felt compelled to share that. And then all these other people commenting on it, just saying how they also watch it. Ah, it was really cool. And hopefully de-stigmatizing it a little bit, because I know it can be, uh, that shit can be like lonely and isolating.

• 39:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  So if we can just make it, make it funny and make it a sort of like a source of pride, not embarrassment. Like yo, I'll do anything to have a kid. Like I will fucking pay any amount of money. I'll inject anything in my body. Like that's how much life is important to me and like family is important to me. And I think that's how you should look at it. That's how I said, like initially I was embarrassed as fuck. Don't get me wrong. I'm like, will my wife even want to fuck me anymore? Like, like I literally went through those emotions. Like, will she not see me as like a, a viral man? And like, will something instinctually shut off for her? But eventually, you know, getting to that point where it's like, no, like this is, that's amazing how much that she wants to have a family with me. And like, that's amazing how much we want to have, how important it is.

• 40:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, that the love is so strong that you would go through such a difficult process.

• 40:16Speaker 04

  Anything.

• 40:16Speaker 06

  Yeah. I'm gonna lie to my kid. I'll tell him he's IVF.

• 40:19Speaker 04

  I think she'll have that money for you.

• 40:20Speaker 06

  I think everybody should do that shit.

• 40:22Speaker 04

  Yeah. I'm for sure. He's like, you got me for free. Like damn, shows this kid, they put down cash for this. They had to go through some shit.

• 40:30Speaker 06

  It's real.

• 40:31Speaker 04

  It's real.

• 40:33Speaker 06

  I'm not letting him watch the special.

• 40:34Speaker 04

  I'm gonna tell Mindsy, he's a surrogate, I'd be like, yo, we love you so much, we put you in another body.

• 40:40Speaker 04

  Everyone shares the love.

• 40:41Speaker 06

  I wasn't at the fucking mom's.

• 40:44Speaker 04

  Nah, that is, yeah, so that's been very cool and man, and just, just super grateful. And there are people just sharing it, like, there's so many people posting and going, yo, friends, check this out. Or saying, go check this out. And that's really how I realized things were like, you could do awesome promo. We had some very cool promo, like shout out Matt for doing, you could do all these things. But if, at the end of the day, the people don't share it.

• 41:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, word of mouth is the best.

• 41:06Speaker 04

  The word of mouth is the real, really the only thing that moves it, right? It's like, if the people watch it and they share it, they tell their friends, that's what's gonna happen. And, and I, yeah, like, the, like, I think it's possible, you know, you see a lot of like people, like, they pop into the top five, or they pop in the top 10, and then they kind of like leave quickly, they get like a big bump. And just to be there like throughout the week.

• 41:26Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Is just like, it's awesome, just fucking awesome.

• 41:29Speaker 06

  So many people have hit me up about the outfit specifically.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Oh, word?

• 41:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 04

  Oh, that's just so.

• 41:33Speaker 06

  Which I thought was a fire outfit, but the amount of people being like, yo, where can I get this?

• 41:36Speaker 04

  Shout out to Amay, man. Shout out Teddy.

• 41:39Speaker 06

  Have you gotten those messages? People be like, yo, I need that, I was like, alright. I've been sending them links, I've just been, I've been, I've been lining them up.

• 41:45Speaker 04

  That's just, that's an age difference for sure, cause everybody hit me up, it's just like, man, I went through this shit. Where the pants from, though?

• 41:54Speaker 04

  Anyway, so I appreciate y'all, man, thank you so much. If you haven't checked, then go check it out on Netflix, and, uh, yeah, thank you, bro. Dude, I had heard an interesting take from somebody who will remain nameless, but, um, that, somebody was saying that the, uh, I even hate saying the word woke, but like, the, the wokeness of Hollywood was a reaction, like an overcorrection to, uh, what happened with Weinstein. So, everybody felt, not everybody, but I guess a lot of people there felt as if Weinstein was an example of.

• 42:26Speaker 06

  Don't even go anywhere.

• 42:28Speaker 04

  Weinstein was an example of, of what all of Hollywood was, right? So they're like, the world thinks that we are all these horrible r- just bringing girls up to hotel rooms, et cetera. So what we have to do is prove that we are not that. And then they overcorrect in the other direction.

• 42:43Speaker 06

  That's a good take.

• 42:44Speaker 04

  I thought it was interesting.

• 42:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:46Speaker 04

  I mean, it could be one of these like, you know, where posthumous justifications.

• 42:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:50Speaker 04

  But, uh, but I do see that like,

• 42:54Speaker 04

  because that is kind of the stain that Hollywood had, and maybe even still has for a while, right? Like Hollywood is just a bunch of pedophiles. They're just saying that about everybody in Hollywood.

• 43:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:01Speaker 04

  So they're reacting to like online chatter, right? And they're like, oh my God, they think all of us producers, we're all just a bunch of these r- and we fuck with kids and we just don't care about people at all. And it's uncomfortable environments for women. And then maybe all this rhetoric gets pushed during that time period.

• 43:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think that plus Trump.

• 43:20Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 43:20Speaker 06

  I think it was right around like 2015, 2016.

• 43:22Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 06

  All of that converged.

• 43:24Speaker 04

  But it's kind of interesting. I never thought of that as like reactionary to Weinstein. I thought it was just like this cultural impulse.

• 43:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 43:30Speaker 04

  But having specifically Weinstein being like emblematic of Hollywood?

• 43:35Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 43:35Speaker 04

  And then all these other producers going, oh, fuck, are they gonna think that's us?

• 43:38Speaker 06

  Oh, especially because everyone knew the Weinstein shit.

• 43:40Speaker 04

  That's...

• 43:41Speaker 06

  Everyone, it was an open secret. Everyone was like, yeah, this guy's a creep. Like Courtney Love's like, yeah, don't go to his hotel room. Like everyone knows.

• 43:46Speaker 04

  Some of these motherfuckers will tell me like, yeah, everybody knew about it. They'll like tell me in conversation? Like, cause they think that like, they're telling me something that, I don't know, they're like sharing with me. They're like, yeah, everybody knew about it. And I'm looking at these motherfuckers like, well, why didn't y'all do something about it? Like, is there something we don't understand about this?

• 44:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:02Speaker 04

  Like, I mean, that was a crazy conversation I had.

• 44:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:05Speaker 04

  With a dude who was like related to a, an agency. And he was just like, yeah, I mean, people knew they were just sending girls to his hotel.

• 44:12Speaker 06

  Wow. But they're like, if we make Little Mermaid black, then we're fine.

• 44:14Speaker 04

  Then nobody talks about it.

• 44:15Speaker 06

  We're not pedophiles anymore.

• 44:16Speaker 04

  A hundred percent.

• 44:17Mark Gagnon?

  But now that things are swinging back and all the woke shit's done, are they back to...

• 44:26Speaker 04

  You would hope not.

• 44:27Speaker 06

  We gotta look into it.

• 44:28Speaker 04

  You would hope not.

• 44:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 44:29Mark Gagnon?

  There's a lot of new stars in Hollywood popping up.

• 44:32Speaker 06

  Yeah, we should have told him that. Like, hey, you don't do all the D E I stuff. Just stop the r-.

• 44:35Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 44:36Speaker 06

  And that's fine. Fine with us.

• 44:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, maybe that is. Okay, so that's the other thing. It's like now, let's say it's all merit based, right? Like acting is pure merit based and like nothing else matters, right? You're just gonna hire Meryl Streep to do everything. Right? But these, these executives and producers, like they don't want to have sex with Meryl Streep. Right? And she doesn't want it.

• 44:57Speaker 06

  I mean, speak for yourself.

• 45:00Mark Gagnon?

  Miles would do Meryl Streep.

• 45:01Speaker 04

  Oh, I know. I know you like that. What's the other Meryl Streep? What's her name? There's like two or three of them.

• 45:06Speaker 06

  Sally Field.

• 45:06Speaker 04

  No, no, there's another one too.

• 45:08Mark Gagnon?

  Helen Mirren?

• 45:09Speaker 04

  Helen Mirren, yeah, yeah. That Meryl Streep, she's fucking good.

• 45:12Speaker 06

  Not even for the story.

• 45:14Mark Gagnon?

  Not even for the story.

• 45:17Mark Gagnon?

  What are you talking about, dude?

• 45:18Speaker 06

  To have a magic tryst with Meryl Streep, I mean, that'd be insane.

• 45:21Speaker 04

  I mean, she's pretty. She got a little that, uh, who's the woman who, who knows all about, um, home decor? Martha Stewart. Yeah, she got a little Martha Stewart in her, right?

• 45:32Speaker 06

  But Martha.

• 45:33Mark Gagnon?

  She got David lips. I see why you like her.

• 45:35Speaker 04

  No, how you know his lips that well?

• 45:37Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, son, I'm just trying to make a joke. I'm just trying to make a joke.

• 45:40Speaker 04

  That was insane.

• 45:41Mark Gagnon?

  That was kinda crazy.

• 45:42Speaker 06

  Brandon does that face, that's how you know it's David.

• 45:45Mark Gagnon?

  That was wild. My bad, my bad, my bad. I'm making her look bad, I'm making her look bad.

• 45:50Speaker 04

  David sitting in pitch black and you know the exact shape of his lips on Helen Mirren's face?

• 45:58Mark Gagnon?

  He got some lips on him.

• 45:59Speaker 04

  I got lips.

• 46:00Mark Gagnon?

  Like low key.

• 46:00Speaker 04

  Is that something that you see in, in men sometimes?

• 46:03Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, now that the focus is on him, he got some lips. You just mad because he got lips that you don't? First of all, you have, you have this big ass mustache to hide the fact you don't got a lip.

• 46:13Speaker 04

  I peed gay.

• 46:14Speaker 06

  Listen, if you don't have a top lip, you gotta get some covering.

• 46:16Mark Gagnon?

  Just get a big ass mustache.

• 46:17Speaker 06

  And I just focus on my bottom lip. My bottom lip is nice. I'm more bottom lip. I got that from my mom.

• 46:22Mark Gagnon?

  Your bottom, yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 04

  No, that's the term. The lip community.

• 46:30Speaker 06

  Oh, man. Actually, I don't even know if my mom got a bottom lip, man.

• 46:35Speaker 04

  I was looking at my, I was at the, the museum. I went with Shiloh to the Museum of Natural History and I was looking at all these dinosaur bones and I was like, that's what my mom's mouth looks like. It's just, it's just jaw on jaw, just clamp, clamp. She's a herbivore.

• 46:52Speaker 04

  Damn, blathering. Shout out Larry Legend for that one, right? That's what I'm talking about. That's pure love. That's true love. I'm gonna watch this. With all due respect though, mom, with all due respect. With all due respect.

• 47:05Speaker 04

  That's camera like that. Can't say that. Andrew, stop letting your friends run holes in my walls.

• 47:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, bro.

• 47:14Speaker 06

  Go to the National History Museum and think your mom's crazy, bro.

• 47:18Speaker 04

  Constantly, constantly.

• 47:19Speaker 06

  I told you, my mom took my nephew to the National History Museum. She was like, none of these exist.

• 47:22Speaker 04

  I literally, I'm not even joking. I'm not even joking. Did I tell you this?

• 47:27Speaker 06

  She, we went and little Ollie was like, I saw a dinosaur at the, at the museum. And my mom was like, what did you really see? And he was like, I saw a reenactment of dinosaur bones. And she was like, what did you really see? And he was like, I saw a plaster mold of what they thought dinosaur bones would have looked like. And my mom was like, see, there you go. They've never discovered a dinosaur bone prior to nineteen, eighteen, twenty-six. And everyone's like, yeah, dinosaurs aren't real, whatever. Ruins the dinner. Then my mom leans over and goes, but dragons. Dragons, my dream.

• 47:50Speaker 04

  No way.

• 47:51Speaker 06

  She's like, dragons are in the Bible. Look into it.

• 47:54Speaker 04

  I love your mom, man.

• 47:55Speaker 06

  Our mom should go to the National History Museum.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  I mean, that would be a wild experience because my mom will believe anything. Like, I get that from my mom. The last article I read, that's the truth.

• 48:04Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  My mom is a hundred percent on that shit. She'll just be sending me wild. I don't even want to get into it. But like, I, I know how, like, she's not built for the internet at all.

• 48:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 04

  Because my mom likes to research. She likes to read. But before you would go get a book from like Barnes and Noble, and there was someone who looked at the book to make sure it was somewhat true. And now my mom's just on Google.

• 48:25Speaker 04

  Getting caught by ads?

• 48:25Speaker 06

  Oh, no, it's not good. It's not good at all.

• 48:28Speaker 04

  Bro, I was with Derek Posey. I saw him get caught by an ad.

• 48:31Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah?

• 48:31Speaker 04

  Like, we were scrolling on, on my phone. He goes, wait, doctors hate this trick?

• 48:37Speaker 06

  No way.

• 48:38Speaker 04

  I swear to God.

• 48:39Speaker 06

  No.

• 48:39Speaker 04

  He was like, what's the trick? What's the trick? And I was like, Derek, this is an ad. He goes, no.

• 48:45Speaker 06

  Derek, Derek, I get it, bro. I get it, man. I get fished almost every day. I gotta send screenshots to Tanya.

• 48:52Speaker 04

  That guy's in screenshots of Tanya every single day.

• 48:54Speaker 06

  The group chat is his defense against internet hackers.

• 48:58Speaker 04

  Somebody added my email to their security email. They made a fake email that's kind of looked like mine. It was like **** or something like that. And they're like, they added my actual email to that. And I got this notification from Google about it. And I at least now can check if it's a real Google notification. Cause it used to, I would get these notifications from like, uh, super Google at something.net.

• 49:20Speaker 06

  Gmail.

• 49:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, I would get those. I'd be like, goddamn, they got me.

• 49:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's Gmail.

• 49:26Speaker 04

  So, and then I hit Tanya at that. She's like, please don't ever respond to anything. She's like, the, the, the, the way that you should respond to any of these concerns is just ignore all of them.

• 49:34Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 49:35Speaker 07

  Schultz just fish the fuck out of himself. I'm gonna have to bleep. He goes, hey, it looks like my email. Say it out loud.

• 49:41Speaker 04

  No, no, I said the fake one.

• 49:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, it looks like yours.

• 49:46Speaker 04

  Dang it, man. I'm really not built for this. I'm really not built for technology.

• 49:51Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 49:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 49:53Speaker 06

  He's trying to sneak out again.

• 49:54Speaker 04

  Alright, David.

• 49:55Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 49:55Speaker 04

  Anyway, going to the Natural History Museum with your kid is like the coolest thing ever. You should definitely do that when he is like a little bit older, where they recognize shit. Cause they're still at the age where they don't know what's fake and real. So like every doll that my daughter has or every like, uh, she like loves animals. So every like fake stuffed animal, she believes is a real animal. And then she sees my dog and she also believes it's a real animal, cause it is. But she cannot discern between the two. So when we're at the Natural History Museum and you see these like beautiful recreations of like what a woolly mammoth was. She's like, that's an alive animal.

• 50:28Speaker 06

  Oh, that's awesome. That's cool.

• 50:29Speaker 04

  And she's just losing her fucking mind. I mean, it was the coolest. You get everything. Like, nothing's actually made for adults, I'm realizing now. It's made for your kid to look at it and go crazy and you just sit there smiling for hours.

• 50:41Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 50:42Speaker 04

  Oh, it was, I mean, it was so cool.

• 50:44Speaker 06

  But she's gonna start asking you questions soon.

• 50:46Speaker 04

  Which is even better.

• 50:47Speaker 06

  But then you're gonna have to come up with answers.

• 50:48Speaker 04

  Nah, you just make shit up. I have no problem making shit up.

• 50:51Speaker 06

  You're like, are dinosaurs real? Are you gonna?

• 50:53Speaker 04

  A hundred percent real.

• 50:54Speaker 06

  Okay. Yeah, so you're gonna lie to them?

• 50:55Speaker 04

  No, I'm not gonna lie. I bet, but yeah, I think that they're real. I think they were birds.

• 50:59Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, they had feathers and shit.

• 51:01Speaker 04

  I got something I learned like, uh, they got some good little information at some of these booths.

• 51:07Speaker 04

  So on islands, right, that are remote?

• 51:11Mark Gagnon?

  Museums.

• 51:12Speaker 04

  No, they do, they do.

• 51:15Mark Gagnon?

  It's not just pictures.

• 51:16Speaker 04

  So on remote islands, and the information informs like the world that we live in, right? So on these remote islands, the the small animals tend to be much bigger because there's not as much natural predators there, right? So there's more of an abundance of food. The big animals tend to be smaller, right? Like they have these like tiny miniature elephants that exist in some parts of the world, and they're like the size of a dog. And they get smaller because there's just not enough food for them to eat in this tiny little island, just walking around all day.

• 51:43Speaker 06

  Insular dwarfism.

• 51:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, is that what it's called?

• 51:46Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Okay, yeah. And then what are they called? The gigantism is is what happens to the small animals. And then that's why, like, you'll see, like, Samoan women are so big. And it's just because.

• 51:55Speaker 06

  No, that's not.

• 51:56Speaker 04

  Wait, what do you mean?

• 51:57Speaker 06

  It is.

• 51:58Speaker 04

  No, I think because there wasn't enough natural predators, so they could just eat all the taro. I did a little bit. I think there was like a there was like a line of thinking, and then I took it there. And I was like, these gigantic Samoan women, there was nothing to eat them, so they ate everything.

• 52:11Speaker 06

  We need to bring Roman rain.

• 52:12Mark Gagnon?

  That's critical thinking.

• 52:13Speaker 04

  They're the only Asians that are big.

• 52:15Speaker 06

  We need Roman rain.

• 52:16Speaker 04

  Asians are small, generally. You go to Asia, they're little, they're itty bitty, and then on this little island, these small women are huge, see Honda? And I think it's because they have all the coconuts or whatever they eat at their disposal, and there's no real big natural predator.

• 52:32Speaker 06

  Oh, wow.

• 52:32Speaker 04

  What's the Samoans' natural predator on an island before white people?

• 52:35Speaker 06

  Heart disease?

• 52:40Speaker 04

  Sorry, if you get a heart attack from eating pineapples, you don't deserve to live.

• 52:43Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 52:45Speaker 04

  White people really brought heart attacks to the islands, huh?

• 52:47Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 04

  It's amazing. We brought Fanta, and no, they started dying at 50 years old. Before that, they would just live an eternity. They're eating vegetables.

• 52:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 52:56Mark Gagnon?

  Sugar and cigarettes.

• 52:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:57Mark Gagnon?

  You guys did it.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  Is that the thing?

• 52:59Mark Gagnon?

  Sugar, cigarettes, and alcohol, yeah.

• 53:01Speaker 04

  I thought that the the Native Americans were on the smoking shit way before us.

• 53:04Speaker 06

  I mean, tobacco, right?

• 53:05Mark Gagnon?

  Oh.

• 53:07Speaker 06

  Little peace pipe.

• 53:08Mark Gagnon?

  But y'all start putting shit in it.

• 53:09Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 53:10Mark Gagnon?

  Like, put other chemicals.

• 53:11Speaker 06

  Like menthol.

• 53:12Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 53:14Speaker 06

  That's what we're putting in it, too. We're making new pork.

• 53:15Speaker 04

  They weren't sugary enough for the.

• 53:19Speaker 04

  So I'm investing into a hookah.

• 53:23Mark Gagnon?

  So who want my breath to smell good before killing myself?

• 53:25Speaker 04

  I ain't gonna lie, menthols are amazing.

• 53:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:28Speaker 04

  Like those, remember those Camel Crush cigs?

• 53:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 53:31Speaker 04

  Uh, Yada loves those.

• 53:32Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 53:34Speaker 04

  Oh, just phenomenal. A way better cigarette.

• 53:36Speaker 06

  I never understood that. I like, I don't, I feel like, why do you need your cigarette to do extra things?

• 53:40Speaker 04

  You know? Mark, you love sugar more than anybody on this planet.

• 53:44Speaker 06

  I gave it up for Lent. I'm glad you brought this up.

• 53:46Speaker 04

  Bullshit.

• 53:46Speaker 06

  I gave it up for the Lord.

• 53:47Speaker 04

  You ate a Reese's last night?

• 53:49Speaker 06

  I threw it away.

• 53:49Speaker 07

  I watched him throw it away. I really did watch him throw it away.

• 53:52Mark Gagnon?

  Fuck, I was trying to correct him.

• 53:54Speaker 07

  Yeah, don't throw those away. Miles fished them out of the garbage.

• 53:56Speaker 06

  Sweet, you really gave up sugar for Lent?

• 53:58Speaker 07

  For Lent, come on dude.

• 53:59Speaker 06

  And you only have to give up one thing?

• 54:00Speaker 07

  You can give up multiple.

• 54:01Speaker 06

  You can give up multiple things.

• 54:02Speaker 07

  Wow.

• 54:02Speaker 06

  I, I knew a guy that used to inflict pain. He said, I have nothing to give up. So I put like a little like bead in my shoe. So I feel pain throughout the day.

• 54:09Mark Gagnon?

  So stupid. Sorry guys, so stupid.

• 54:11Speaker 06

  What did you give up? You're Catholic. You're a good Catholic. You gave up something?

• 54:17Mark Gagnon?

  Absolutely nothing.

• 54:18Speaker 06

  Did you even do Ash Wednesday?

• 54:19Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 54:20Speaker 06

  Did you?

• 54:21Mark Gagnon?

  I'm ashy enough. I just didn't put lotion on my forehead.

• 54:29Speaker 06

  Cause your forehead's too big then. But yeah, I didn't get to do Ash Wednesday. I missed out on it. We were in Austin. I would've gone.

• 54:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, I saw one dude.

• 54:37Mark Gagnon?

  It's on his churches everywhere. You could've did it if you really wanted to do it.

• 54:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's the thing. You can make the sacrifice.

• 54:41Speaker 06

  That we were doing.

• 54:42Mark Gagnon?

  Take some dirt off the fucking ground and put the shit and walk around like an idiot.

• 54:45Speaker 06

  Bigger than that. I just prayed. I've been praying. Cause I just prayed to God. I asked what I should give up. He said, sugar. He said, it's his will for me to get shredded for the summer. That's what God wants for me. Okay? So I'm just, I'm just following the Lord.

• 54:58Speaker 04

  Shout out to the Lord, bro. The Lord always looks out.

• 55:00Mark Gagnon?

  Did you do Palm Sunday? I used to like that day.

• 55:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, you could turn it into shit.

• 55:03Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 55:03Speaker 06

  Yeah, that was fun.

• 55:04Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that was cool.

• 55:06Speaker 06

  Are you giving up anything for Lent?

• 55:07Speaker 04

  No.

• 55:08Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 55:08Speaker 04

  But I did see an interesting conversation. There's this guy that was, um, there's this show online. Where um, somebody goes and they sit in like a room full of people, right? And you sit in the middle and then other people can come sit across from you and then you guys debate for like three minutes.

• 55:25Mark Gagnon?

  Twenty V one.

• 55:26Speaker 04

  Twenty V one.

• 55:27Mark Gagnon?

  Jubilee.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Yes, it's like the balloon popping for uh, white nerds. Right? And uh, you know what I'm talking about, right? And then um, so there's this guy like Sam Seder who's sitting down and then there's this uh, just like Latino kid who sits like across from him. And he's having this argument about like the importance, I guess, of morality. And I think Sam, he was like asking where his morality comes from. I mean, we can probably bring up a clip or it doesn't matter. But um, but it was interesting, this take that he had, like that you need a religious foundation for your morality. Otherwise you end up just justifying whatever makes you feel good. And you can't just keep doing whatever makes you feel good because you won't have good societal outcomes from that. And he was taking it to the extreme of you won't even have procreation.

• 56:13Speaker 04

  Like if you take it to its furthest logical conclusion, just doing whatever makes you feel good in the moment will lead to a population collapse.

• 56:21Mark Gagnon?

  How? Cause if you fucking that makes you feel good and a couple gonna get past the goalie.

• 56:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, but maybe you fuck with uh, a rubber because having a kid might not make you feel good.

• 56:30Mark Gagnon?

  Said make you feel good.

• 56:31Speaker 04

  I mean, right, my boy.

• 56:34Mark Gagnon?

  It's Monday night row every day.

• 56:35Speaker 04

  Watch this, uh, watch this. Are you an atheist?

• 56:38Speaker 06

  I'm a reformed Jew.

• 56:39Speaker 04

  I should say that the way that these shows are set up, I don't think he knows what everybody else's arguments are gonna be used against him. But it seems like everybody else there knows what that person in the middle thinks and they're there essentially to refute whatever their beliefs are.

• 56:54Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, and usually they'll bring up a topic and then whoever wants to go, they run in.

• 56:58Speaker 04

  Can pop in, got it. But but everybody comes there with ammunition and that person in the beginning is not, I mean, you should be prepared to defend your beliefs. But you're going up against somebody who's already thought about every argument against you. So like one person is prepared, the other person is not, but continue.

• 57:12Speaker 06

  And so we have a civil society, we have laws.

• 57:14Speaker 04

  That is an interesting point that he was making right there, which is like if laws are based on like societal cohesion, but not some like moral framework, right? And society chooses to do something that we might morally object to.

• 57:33Speaker 04

  If you go along with the societal decision, you could get some shitty outcomes. So the idea of having this like moral framework that informs the societal decisions, much to their chagrin at times, can sometimes protect the human experience. You know, so if society all goes, hey, we should have slavery. And then the moral opinion is, no, that's wrong to subject people to that sort of behavior. You can thwart what society wants. I mean, this would be the argument like, why you want something out of simply what makes people feel good to be what drives your like moral compass.

• 58:10Mark Gagnon?

  But couldn't you say the same the other way around? Because it's like, if you have the moral framework of religion, then we'll never have like gay relations.

• 58:18Speaker 04

  100%. That's why this is like a, I'm not trying to say one is right or wrong. I'm just saying it's kind of exposing the limiting factors of both. It's like, we want the moral framework of religiosity when it comes to like how we treat one another. But then there are certain hangups with that religiosity. And then we go, actually, we don't want the religiosity. So it's kind of like, we're picking and choosing what we feel like is right. I think he's using the term what civil society is. But like, civil society throughout history has believed in some pretty nefarious shit. So, yeah, it's an interesting, I think it's like, I think this, keep on going. I don't want to interrupt at all. But I think it's like a really interesting discussion. Like, how do you figure out what is the best version of society for the most people?

• 59:02Speaker 04

  And the reality is, you kind of need to pick and choose from both. You know, you need a moral framework that you might object to, that's brought to you by God or some higher power or something else. But you also need to break that framework so that certain people can have the rights that they deserve as part of this idea of a civil society. I don't know if you get there without both. You can't just rely on people to make the right decision. I think is what I'm trying to say.

• 59:25Speaker 06

  Well, I guess if you are atheist or a secular person, you could argue that, oh, all of these religious dogmas just come out of basically the same exact thing.

• 59:33Speaker 04

  So you're saying that the morality is internal before religion?

• 59:36Speaker 06

  If God doesn't exist, which I think would be his argument, that there is no God. So therefore, the rules that are laid out within Judaism, Islam, Christianity, aren't just human beings creating what they think the social structure should be.

• 59:46Speaker 04

  And then the pushback someone might give is like, yo, we've created some fucked up rules that like really hurt a lot of people. And so that's so.

• 59:52Mark Gagnon?

  Over time, we've gotten better. Like, this is the best time to live ever in the history of.

• 59:58Speaker 04

  Hundred percent. I guess my question is, I don't have the answer. My question is like, what is the impetus for that? Like, what made us realize, was it this internal morality that we have? Like, was it kind of like erupting and we realize, hey, this is actually wrong. This goes against what we want internally and we like turned a blind eye to it? Like, what?

• 1:00:18Speaker 06

  Well, secular people might lean on like natural law and say like, there are certain things that violate what it means to be like a fruitful human. So like infringing on someone else's life or like sexual violence, stuff like that. So like, we know that internally as a species that that is not good. So you could come to that conclusion outside of the.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  But why the fuck have we done it throughout the majority of history? If we know that it's so wrong, why have we done it continually?

• 1:00:39Speaker 06

  Like murder and things like that.

• 1:00:41Speaker 04

  Murder, you know, assault women, all these things.

• 1:00:45Mark Gagnon?

  Why you pointing at?

• 1:00:54Speaker 06

  But, but, but keep going, keep going. Or like Alex O'Connor?

• 1:00:58Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah. He'd be a good person to.

• 1:01:00Speaker 06

  Right, he's great. But he popularized this idea, I forget what philosopher came up with it, but it's a, I think it's ethical emotivism. So basically, it's this idea that you can basically just say like, something that happens, you could say, oh, boo that thing. So like murder, you're not saying like murder is right or wrong. You're not putting like a truth value on it. You're just saying boo murder. So like your emotional.

• 1:01:19Speaker 04

  Reaction to murder.

• 1:01:20Speaker 06

  To something is what justifies your moral compass. And then ideally, whatever the majority feels about a specific thing, then creates the social fabric for how that's enlisted into law.

• 1:01:29Speaker 04

  So then how have we been so comfortable with murder throughout history?

• 1:01:34Speaker 06

  Well, within our own civil society, we're not. But then when it comes to like war, that's not murder.

• 1:01:39Speaker 04

  So there are these little spaces where murder can exist.

• 1:01:42Speaker 06

  Right, it's justified, self-defense.

• 1:01:43Speaker 04

  And what if it's a duel?

• 1:01:46Speaker 06

  No, then if both parties are consenting, then it's not murder.

• 1:01:49Speaker 04

  Oh, it's, it's a.

• 1:01:50Speaker 06

  It's no victim.

• 1:01:51Speaker 04

  It's, it's not murder. What would it be called? It's just killing.

• 1:01:55Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:55Speaker 04

  So murder is the idea that one party is not consenting. And I guess both parties are consenting to whatever's happened. It's like a boxing match where one person ends up dying. But I guess with a duel, like the explicit purpose is to kill.

• 1:02:05Mark Gagnon?

  That one of us will die.

• 1:02:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Mark Gagnon?

  And if they're both consenting to do it, assuming there's no coercion, then.

• 1:02:09Speaker 04

  I guess, I guess maybe there's like, um, so I guess maybe Sam's position is a little bit more optimistic about the human experience. It's like, hey, we are internally good and we know the right thing to do. And when we're put in situations where we're allowed to freely access our, our internal morality, we will act right.

• 1:02:25Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. And I agree with that.

• 1:02:27Speaker 04

  And then, but, but also I have, I have empathy for the other guy because it's like, he might subscribe to this idea. Like, there's been a lot of times where we don't act right. And we act horribly towards one another. And then having this moral framework that's given by God or religion or whatever, is a, is a constant reminder that we cannot, you know, fall victim to our instinctual desires in these motive, in, in these moments.

• 1:02:51Mark Gagnon?

  But sometimes they've used that moral framework to do horrible things.

• 1:02:55Speaker 04

  That's, that's why this is an interesting discussion. I'm not saying that you're wrong about, but that's why it is really interesting because there's so much evidence to us doing horrible shit. And it would be nice if there was this framework that we could look back to and be like, hey, hey, we're doing horrible shit because God says it, or now I guess we have in America, the constitution says it. It seems like we need something to remind us constantly and that we can do a lot of justification for horrible behavior if we want. And we can even use religion for horrible behavior too. I mean, people have done it throughout history. It's happening right now, right? They're like murking these Christians out there in Syria. And I'm sure that there's like a moral justification for that. There's not this like boo murder. They're going, nah, you know, the man upstairs justifies this in some way.

• 1:03:38Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:39Speaker 04

  I, like, I thought, I, I know a lot of these shows are like based on like dunking on one another, which is kind of unfortunate. I wish there was a lot more like good faith conversations for people online where it wasn't like, I'm gonna win. It's more like, what do you feel? Oh, that's an interesting perspective and like, I feel this way. And then that person goes, I can see why that's important. Unfortunately, this, this dunk culture that gets a click.

• 1:03:59Mark Gagnon?

  But I thought they set it up that way.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  But the discussion is like, it's like, here, keep going. You have low reproductive birth rates. I just don't see. justification be gay outside of it just feels good. Pause. So that's okay. So it's an interesting feeling is like, usually I think with at least in America, the the feeling of hey, this feels good. And this is good that we're talking about this, Miles, that is that like this feels good to go like.

• 1:04:23Mark Gagnon?

  We should let the experts speak on this.

• 1:04:26Speaker 04

  If someone's in the room, there's really no reason for us to talk. But he goes, he goes, it's not like it's right or wrong. It's just, I don't feel a justification for it outside of this feels good. So his, I guess, argument hinges on this idea, just because something feels good doesn't mean that is best for society. And he'll, he makes more wild shit. So you're okay with a 45 year old dad with a 19 year old daughter as well? He came ready. This guy came ready, right? And this, I think we've even had this discussion here, which like, okay, you have people that are related, having sex without the fear of reproduction, if they are consensual, is that okay? It feels both good to both of them. They're adults, they're consenting, and it doesn't, I guess, negatively impact society. Should we restrict their ability to do that?

• 1:05:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's a fire philosophical debate. Like, the one of the first day in my philosophy class in like college, this was one of the questions they brought up.

• 1:05:17Speaker 04

  This is the, what was the teacher?

• 1:05:18Speaker 06

  With Dr. Small.

• 1:05:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, Dr. Small.

• 1:05:19Speaker 06

  Same-sex incest.

• 1:05:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:05:20Speaker 06

  Is that unethical?

• 1:05:22Speaker 04

  Because same-sex removes the fear of producing a child that has some sort of issue.

• 1:05:28Mark Gagnon?

  So what's the problem?

• 1:05:28Speaker 04

  So what's the problem? Now, this is where we go back to the O'Connor argument where it's just like, you have this innate feeling of boo.

• 1:05:35Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:05:35Speaker 04

  That's bad. What does that come from?

• 1:05:39Mark Gagnon?

  Is that? Because we've been told incest is bad.

• 1:05:41Speaker 04

  Well, that's the thing. Have we been told it or do we innately feel it's wrong? Like, is it built into our personal constitution?

• 1:05:49Speaker 06

  And you could argue on a biological basis that humans feel that it's wrong.

• 1:05:53Mark Gagnon?

  Why?

• 1:05:54Speaker 06

  Like, through like pheromones. So like, a person would be more attracted to a, like, a dissimilar person than to a relative. Based off of like pheromone levels and stuff like that. So like, for the reproductive health of a society, most people would go to diversify their genetic lineage.

• 1:06:08Speaker 04

  But then you look at throughout history and probably the.

• 1:06:10Mark Gagnon?

  Accept these guys.

• 1:06:11Speaker 04

  I mean, yeah, Doug's entire family looks identical to one another. So there's been a lot of inbreeding in his family and it's kind of worked out for them. Maybe others it hasn't, right? But it's, there's a lot of similarity. I mean, like.

• 1:06:21Speaker 06

  But they all have asthma. So it's like the good at the bad.

• 1:06:24Speaker 04

  How do you have asthma with that nose, right? You feel like you could get some oxygen in there.

• 1:06:27Speaker 06

  It's the, it's the bend. It's like.

• 1:06:31Speaker 04

  It gets clogged right there.

• 1:06:36Speaker 06

  We need to hire a contractor, you gotta straighten it out.

• 1:06:41Mark Gagnon?

  That's why they all get nose jobs.

• 1:06:43Speaker 04

  It's a deviated septum.

• 1:06:47Speaker 04

  Anyway, I thought, I thought this is an interesting discussion, like, it's cool to chew on these things. I don't know, what do you, what is your take on, what do you think is, what do you think determines our decision making of right and wrong?

• 1:06:59Speaker 06

  I think there is something innate. I do think that there's like a biological natural law. And like, as someone that believes in God, I like to believe that there is some type of like order that God put into the universe that people can come to know without God.

• 1:07:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 06

  But then additionally, if you come to follow some type of faith background, that those things are also instilled.

• 1:07:15Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:07:16Speaker 06

  But then, I also think that those things get like antiquated over time. Like, the Levitical laws of like eating pork and stuff probably existed in a specific timeframe where pork is very dangerous.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:07:24Speaker 06

  And then, as time has gone on, it's no longer as dangerous. Sorry, Jews and Muslims. And Ethiopian Christians, apparently.

• 1:07:31Speaker 04

  Oh, really?

• 1:07:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, there's like a bunch of people that don't eat pork.

• 1:07:33Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 1:07:34Speaker 06

  Which you start to look at how many people don't eat pork.

• 1:07:36Speaker 04

  Why are we eating this?

• 1:07:37Speaker 06

  Maybe they're onto something. But then, I think like, I don't know, I think all the faiths that have persisted probably have a lot of roots of the same things that help society prosper.

• 1:07:46Speaker 04

  So you could make the argument that reinforcing those beliefs might be the best thing for society at large.

• 1:07:54Speaker 06

  To a point, but we also live in a non-theocratic society.

• 1:07:57Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:07:57Speaker 06

  So like, as someone that lives in America that likes religious freedom, I also don't want to be bound by the mandates of any specific religion.

• 1:08:04Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:08:04Speaker 06

  Whether that be Islam, or Christianity, or Judaism.

• 1:08:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:08:07Speaker 06

  So.

• 1:08:07Speaker 04

  Cause it infringes on your personal freedom.

• 1:08:09Speaker 06

  Right. Like, it would be nice if there was a Catholic country that existed that had some type of Catholic theocratic laws, that if I so chose, I could move to. But I like to live in America where people can practice freely whatever they want.

• 1:08:19Speaker 04

  I do as well, but he was looking at like, I think he's chugging this up to like a leftist issue, and maybe he has issues with leftist ideology, and it's easy to like, you know, reconstruct an argument afterwards and like place it on top of it, but he's pointing at, you know, birth rates declining. And he's trying to say, if you see more like left-leaning ideology in countries, you see birth rates declining. And he's going, okay, is this a like repercussion of this way of thinking, where you just do what makes you feel good? Now, maybe, maybe you have less people, and maybe society collapses hundreds from years now, who fucking knows? But. I don't know if we build society simply to create more people.

• 1:08:56Speaker 06

  Right.

• 1:08:57Speaker 04

  Yes, there's a way to make society so we just make more people and it is more beneficial for that specific thing, but I don't know if that's the goal of civil society.

• 1:09:05Speaker 06

  Right. I could also argue this is, I think, a slippery slope argument. Like, it seems fallacious on its onset to say, like, the logical conclusion of XYZ philosophy is decimation of a population. Because you could say the inverse, that, you know, the logical conclusion of like a hyper-religious society is gonna be like oppression of women and gay people getting murdered.

• 1:09:21Speaker 04

  Right. You can make the exact same argument in, yeah, just an oppressive way. So to me, I'm like, it seems like kind of misguided. I don't know if that was intention, but like, I think it's framed poorly.

• 1:09:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 07

  You could also, you could also make the point that like, is a declining birth rate or a increasing birth rate like positive for society? We don't know. If it declines, does society actually get better? There's more resources per person, like, does utopia happen because there's more resources per person? Or is it an increasing birth rate? Does that actually make the Earth die faster? Like, we don't actually know.

• 1:09:53Mark Gagnon?

  I've always wondered that. I'm like, maybe this is just the order of things and we're just like leveling out.

• 1:09:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:09:59Mark Gagnon?

  Like, we used to put so much emphasis on have as many kids as possible. And now, like, look at the little resources we all have and everybody's complaining. So maybe this is just like, hey, bouncing itself out.

• 1:10:08Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a leveling, a natural leveling.

• 1:10:10Speaker 06

  Which even that idea, I think, comes out of like agrarian societies and shit. And this is from someone whose parents have seven kids.

• 1:10:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:15Speaker 06

  But like, I'm pretty sure even prior to like pastoralist and agrarian societies, people were having like three or four kids.

• 1:10:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:10:21Speaker 06

  Like, women were having like their periods like 18 or 19.

• 1:10:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Oh, they had it way later?

• 1:10:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, they were having it later. And so, like in hunter-gatherer societies, they still have them later. And then typically, women would breastfeed the whole time. They were emitting like prolactin and estrogen so that they weren't able to get pregnant for longer periods of time.

• 1:10:35Speaker 04

  Oh, so it would separate the kids? That's an important component to talk about. When a woman is breastfeeding, it's much harder for her to get pregnant. So if you're breastfeeding for two, three, four years, then you have a five-year gap in between kids. And if you had four kids, think about that. That's 20 years of baby-making. So if you start at 18, you're done at 38.

• 1:10:52Speaker 06

  And you might have three, four kids.

• 1:10:53Speaker 04

  You have three or four kids. That's assuming every pregnancy went to term. Like, that's a really interesting point.

• 1:10:57Speaker 06

  And I talked to an anthropologist that said, like, it's actually potentially more beneficial for children to have more individualized time with the parent. So like, having multiple kids really close together could be detrimental for the development of kids, that giving them more undisputed attention for like, four or five years is actually better for like, the survival of the species.

• 1:11:14Speaker 04

  I, I mean, that makes a lot of sense.

• 1:11:16Speaker 06

  And this is in hunter-gatherer societies, where people are just like, eating off the land and living off the land.

• 1:11:19Speaker 04

  Well, 100%. I mean, like, you, you have a kid right now, you know how much attention they require. Like, they're walking around, you need to walk with them every single second, every day. If you have one that's five, and they kind of know the rules, where they should go, they can almost like, help out a little bit with the little kid. They're not looking after them, but they can teach the kids something like that. You can ask them to hand you something, and you can look after the other kid. But looking at two, looking after two kids that are under three years old, I mean, that, that's the, it takes a village shit. Like, that's where you need grandma.

• 1:11:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:46Speaker 04

  Or you need grandpa. You need somebody else looking after those kids. It takes a lot of attention.

• 1:11:49Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:11:50Speaker 06

  So I think about this question a lot, like, what is, what does it mean to actually be human, and what is best for humans? And I think people go back, and they go like, "Oh, like, 2,000 years ago." But like, that's still like, a very recent development in humanity. So like, is it potential we go 10,000 years ago? Like, Homo sapiens have been walking around the way we are for like, what, 100,000 years?

• 1:12:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:07Speaker 06

  So like, 2,000 years is just a blip. So like, have humans existed for most of the time in the way that we were 10,000 years ago, living, walking around, having sex, eating a mango?

• 1:12:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:12:17Speaker 06

  You know what I mean? Like, is that what most of humanity has been? So then, when it comes to like, moral frameworks, like, should we be trying to go back farther than we're really looking at it? You know what I mean?

• 1:12:26Speaker 04

  Wait, explain that.

• 1:12:27Speaker 06

  Like, should we be going back to like, "Okay, what are humans really supposed to be doing?"

• 1:12:31Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:12:31Speaker 06

  So like, "Oh, we should have a bunch of kids, because that's what people did 1,000 years ago." Well, it's like, well, actually, that is a blip in the overall scope. For most of human history, people were having three or four.

• 1:12:41Speaker 04

  Yeah. Once we started farming, yeah, then we start going, "Let's have seven."

• 1:12:44Speaker 06

  So you have societal explosions, but also you need people to work the farms.

• 1:12:47Speaker 04

  Work the land.

• 1:12:48Speaker 06

  So it's like

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  It's like your retirement policy almost. You have one kid, how are they gonna take care of their family and you and your wife when you're too old to do anything? You have seven, you can mitigate that risk across seven different bodies.

• 1:13:00Speaker 07

  That's the, that's the like big issue with the declining birth rate in certain countries. They have aging populations that no one is there to take care of.

• 1:13:07Speaker 04

  This is like Japan, right?

• 1:13:09Speaker 07

  Japan, South Korea and certain other countries.

• 1:13:10Speaker 06

  I mean, every developed country, basically.

• 1:13:12Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, America's gonna run into it in the next like 50 to 80 years.

• 1:13:15Speaker 04

  And so, so again, the concern is that there won't be enough, or that the burden of the parents and the grandparents will be on the grandkids and they just won't have enough resources to

• 1:13:26Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  protect, provide.

• 1:13:28Speaker 07

  Yeah. And they also won't have enough time for themselves to, to benefit society. They're taking, they're spending all their time taking care of an older population.

• 1:13:34Speaker 04

  That's right. They have to develop a business. They have to create something. They have to, ah.

• 1:13:38Mark Gagnon?

  Cuomo was just trying to help out.

• 1:13:39Speaker 04

  Second. What'd he say?

• 1:13:43Mark Gagnon?

  Cuomo was just trying to help out.

• 1:13:44Speaker 04

  What was Cuomo doing?

• 1:13:46Mark Gagnon?

  Now, he put all the fucking old people in.

• 1:13:48Speaker 04

  Yeah. He's like, we can't pay these motherfuckers anymore. Acceleration's trying to speed it up. He's trying to run for mayor now.

• 1:13:53Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  You think he's got it?

• 1:13:55Speaker 07

  I mean, on name alone, he'll get, he'll get the push to the mayor.

• 1:13:59Speaker 04

  That is the thing about politics.

• 1:14:00Mark Gagnon?

  We forget pretty quick.

• 1:14:01Speaker 04

  Yo, it's

• 1:14:02Mark Gagnon?

  We forget pretty quick.

• 1:14:03Speaker 04

  And like, there are certain names, especially in, I mean, at least New York, but definitely in politics in general where like, people go, oh, they're familiar with the name. Like you see this person, you know what you're gonna get. And then you see some other random human being. And if he doesn't create enough buzz, if he doesn't have like superstar power, like Trump had superstar power. So he could kind of muscle his way in. But if it's Cuomo versus random name person that used to be the comptroller of the city. Yeah, Cuomo's blowing that guy out.

• 1:14:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:14:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. So he would run against Adams.

• 1:14:36Speaker 06

  Oh wait, is Adams even still?

• 1:14:37Speaker 04

  Of course. That's the boy, bro.

• 1:14:39Speaker 06

  Every other week, he's getting arrested.

• 1:14:40Speaker 04

  Nah, I saw him at Zero Bond fingering chicks the other day. Yo, shout out Adams, bro. That's the boy.

• 1:14:46Mark Gagnon?

  He'd be going out.

• 1:14:46Speaker 04

  Yo, he likes a party, son.

• 1:14:47Mark Gagnon?

  I'd run into him at fucking record room in Queens.

• 1:14:49Speaker 06

  Yeah. Nah, is he married?

• 1:14:50Speaker 04

  Say what? He's Batman, son.

• 1:14:54Speaker 04

  This is what we need. New York needs a Mayor Adams. I'm tired of these stuffy cornballs.

• 1:14:59Mark Gagnon?

  He likes to, you know, talk to his constituents.

• 1:15:01Speaker 04

  Be with the people?

• 1:15:02Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:15:03Speaker 06

  Listen, he's acutely aware of what the women in New York City do.

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  I mean, would you not? If you're not married, you the mayor of New York, you're not gonna dip in some strength every once in a while?

• 1:15:14Mark Gagnon?

  Only a hundred thousand from the like, holy, the fuck? You gotta damn.

• 1:15:20Speaker 04

  Nah, if he came back with a new hairline, I'd be like, this motherfucker is compromised.

• 1:15:25Speaker 06

  It's funny, we want our presidents to be married, mayors?

• 1:15:27Speaker 04

  Nah, I don't want, yeah, I want you outside. I think we need Adams on the pod, bro. Cause I don't know if we can let Cuomo be the mayor, bro.

• 1:15:34Mark Gagnon?

  I could send that up.

• 1:15:34Speaker 04

  I think we need Adams on the pod.

• 1:15:36Mark Gagnon?

  That'd be fire.

• 1:15:37Speaker 04

  I think we need to, we need to have a real talk.

• 1:15:38Speaker 06

  What would you ask him? What do you want to know?

• 1:15:40Mark Gagnon?

  He might be a little afraid to come up here, you know?

• 1:15:41Speaker 04

  Nah, that motherfucker got no fear. He got, I was a police officer energy.

• 1:15:46Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Cause he was.

• 1:15:49Speaker 04

  But they have a different confidence, you know? And, uh, no, I don't think he's scared.

• 1:15:53Mark Gagnon?

  They got that confidence that they can do whatever and get away with the confidence.

• 1:15:56Speaker 04

  Hey, bro, he's away with it.

• 1:15:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:59Speaker 04

  You know, we're not talking about it no more.

• 1:16:01Mark Gagnon?

  Crazy.

• 1:16:01Speaker 04

  What did he even do? I don't know.

• 1:16:04Speaker 06

  Do you know what he did?

• 1:16:05Speaker 04

  I don't, does anyone know?

• 1:16:06Speaker 06

  No one knows.

• 1:16:07Speaker 04

  Don't call me out. This is the, this is the beauty of headlines, bro. It really is the beauty of headlines is like, it.

• 1:16:15Mark Gagnon?

  It's like kickbacks to open some Turkish, like.

• 1:16:19Speaker 04

  I think it was construction for the Turkish embassy or whatever like that. And it's like, low key, build your embassy, bro. And, uh, like.

• 1:16:26Mark Gagnon?

  Couple free flights.

• 1:16:27Speaker 06

  Two counts of solicitation of a contribution by a foreign national and bribery.

• 1:16:31Mark Gagnon?

  Yep.

• 1:16:34Speaker 06

  That's how you feel about that?

• 1:16:35Speaker 04

  Come on, bro. Like, what, what is, like, how?

• 1:16:37Mark Gagnon?

  Politicians not doing that, that's the question.

• 1:16:39Speaker 04

  Yeah, so here's a concern. The concern I imagine is this. If you're a foreign country, right? And you see a rising star in the American political system. If I'm a foreign country that I want, and I want any influence in American politics at all, and that is advantageous to foreign countries, obviously. You get in bed with these guys when they're real young, like before they're even mayor of New York. And you got a little thing on them that you're not really gonna talk about, and they're not really sweating because they got these, you know, political dreams and hopefully they get to be president one day. I mean, if you're gonna be mayor of New York, there's no way you're not thinking I could be president.

• 1:17:14Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:17:15Speaker 04

  It's the next logical step, right? So if you're Turkey, if you're China, if you're Qatar, if you're anything, right? You go, all right, let's see if we can just, you know, talk to that guy. Let's throw a little money in his campaign, let's do whatever we can. And then if he does rise to this political superstardom, he does become president, then that's a phone call away. And you're like, listen. We would really appreciate if you don't make these tariffs too crazy, you know, we're boys, remember back in the day, we gave you that a hundred grand? And that's your way of going, we don't want to make this a big problem.

• 1:17:44Mark Gagnon?

  It's like getting it on the seed round.

• 1:17:47Speaker 04

  I mean, if I'm another country, that's what I'm doing. I'm looking at every young political star potentially, and I'm going, I love what you're doing, how can I help? Not even trying to bribe you, how can I help? And then, you know, become friends.

• 1:17:58Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:59Speaker 04

  Wow. So we can let him be mayor, he can't be president, that's crazy, he's already bribed by the Turks, right? For a hundred grand, but mayor, I like. Mayor, I like.

• 1:18:08Mark Gagnon?

  Some would say our president is, you know, Russian asset, I don't know, some people say.

• 1:18:11Speaker 04

  Is he still a Russian?

• 1:18:13Mark Gagnon?

  Debunked. I think that's what Salger said.

• 1:18:16Speaker 04

  We trust the last person that spoke to him.

• 1:18:18Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:18:21Speaker 04

  Who's he supported by now? Who's? It's actually, it was it? No, no, no, no. No, no, Trump is like, stop it. The Jews!

• 1:18:34Speaker 04

  This guy, E. Carroll, went on Rogue with my mustache and talked so much shit about how Israel is influencing, like, it was like Epstein shit. It feels like there was no new conspiracies that were brought up. It was like the same conspiracies we've heard for the last decade, but Twitter, but what's it?

• 1:18:51Mark Gagnon?

  There's big juicy ones, like that C one is still not fucking answered.

• 1:18:54Speaker 04

  We never get an answer to that, bro.

• 1:18:56Mark Gagnon?

  9/11? We should get an answer to that.

• 1:18:57Speaker 04

  We know who did 9/11.

• 1:19:03Speaker 04

  Yo, Dove, you gotta, y'all gotta do, I know you.

• 1:19:06Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, E. Carroll doing some nasty work.

• 1:19:12Speaker 04

  When black people are starting to act, now that motherfucker's spin, Jews, you gotta be careful, okay? Jews made the little N double A C P, whatever, thinking black people gonna ride from, uh-uh.

• 1:19:22Mark Gagnon?

  We, we had this for a while, but he is cooking right now, so.

• 1:19:26Speaker 04

  So what is he doing?

• 1:19:27Mark Gagnon?

  Call Masad, call somebody.

• 1:19:28Speaker 04

  What is he actually doing?

• 1:19:30Speaker 06

  What do you mean?

• 1:19:30Speaker 04

  Like, what is he saying? Like, what is going so viral on Twitter specifically? Because I just see Twitter and it's like, it's back to like, everything is the Jews' fault. So, but what specifically is he outing? What is he, what connections is he?

• 1:19:42Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know all the specifics, but the thing that people just keep trying, they can't seem to separate is that he's saying the Israeli government. And everybody ties that by antisemitism and he's talking about all Jews. And I don't think he's doing that.

• 1:19:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:19:57Mark Gagnon?

  But that's the way it seems like online. That's the only thing that I don't like. Because it's like, he's really clear in just being like, oh, it's the Israeli government that's doing all these things. And then everybody's like, oh, antisemitism, he's saying Jews' cause.

• 1:20:10Speaker 04

  Maybe because the rest of the internet's just tying the two together.

• 1:20:13Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but he's not saying that.

• 1:20:15Speaker 04

  Sorry. So this is the tricky thing is like, he's, you should be able to criticize every single government on the planet. You should be able to criticize, you should be able to criticize, you should be able to criticize China, whatever the fuck you want, you should be able to criticize. Now, it is tricky, right? Because Jews in America and Jews around the world naturally are very supportive of Israel. So sometimes that support gets conflated. You're like, are you supporting that country because they've allegedly done those things? Or are you supporting it because you like a Jewish homeland and you feel safe there? And you've been reading all the books forever and you just want that place to exist? So I think that there is a separation there. But if you're somebody who hates Jews and you hear that rhetoric from Ian, you're going, see, this is why I hate them, because of all this shit.

• 1:20:58Mark Gagnon?

  I can see that.

• 1:20:59Speaker 04

  Right? So it is a, but the thing that I've seen like, kind of explode the most is this idea of like, um, foreign influence, right? Which is a very reasonable discussion to have. Like, if you feel like other countries are influencing America, we should be able to look into that influence and be critical of that influence, right? Now, that's not to say that we shouldn't take foreign investment. Give us all your fucking money. Do you know what I mean? If Saudi Arabia wants to buy a trillion dollars' worth of planes that don't work? Absolutely, please. We'd love to sell you planes that don't work. We're literally selling planes with the technology that doesn't make them as good as they can be.

• 1:21:33Speaker 06

  Oh, really?

• 1:21:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:21:34Speaker 06

  Oh, it's like go-karts?

• 1:21:36Speaker 04

  We put the governor on that shit as far. That plane goes 100 miles per hour. Because in case you act up, we need a 200 mile per hour plane to take you out.

• 1:21:44Speaker 06

  Oh, that's fire.

• 1:21:45Speaker 04

  I believe that's the understanding.

• 1:21:47Mark Gagnon?

  The F-35.

• 1:21:47Speaker 06

  Sick as hell.

• 1:21:48Speaker 04

  That's, we're not selling them. We're not selling the F-35s. We're not giving anybody, but I think you give them like F-16s, you give them the top of that shit. We're not giving nobody those F-35s.

• 1:21:57Speaker 07

  Hold on, hold on.

• 1:21:57Mark Gagnon?

  Sounds like you know something that we don't know.

• 1:21:59Speaker 07

  We have plenty of people that have F-35s. We don't, other countries don't have the F-22, I believe. But F-35, UK has it, Dick Israel has it.

• 1:22:08Speaker 04

  I think.

• 1:22:12Mark Gagnon?

  You can't put it first.

• 1:22:13Speaker 04

  I don't think.

• 1:22:16Speaker 07

  At least six countries have it.

• 1:22:18Speaker 06

  Yes, the United States does sell F-35 Lightning II fighter jets to other countries.

• 1:22:21Speaker 07

  Don't do that to me, Mark.

• 1:22:23Speaker 04

  I mean, Dove is a little autistic about the planes. He loves the fucking planes, so I trust him with this kind of information. But I think, so here's, I think, the tricky thing, right, is it looks like there's this influence, right? And a lot of people in America, like, they make this, this big concern. How do I even say it? Because I don't want to discredit people who care about what's happening in Gaza. Like, I think there are definitely a lot of people in America around the world care about what's happening in Gaza. And they're like, hey, this feels excessive and they don't want people dying, right? I also think there have been plenty of other times throughout history where, like, America has been responsible for the murder of tons of people, a million people in Iraq. And like, yes, there are Americans who are concerned. They're like, this is fucked up.

• 1:23:02Speaker 04

  We don't like this. This is horrible. But there's a little part of Americans who are like, yeah, but the gas is like 250, right? So I think there's a little part of this discussion which is kind of missing, which is like, what are we getting out of this tragedy? We're supporting this tragedy, but what do we get? And I, I think it's on, like, Israel, to be honest, to explain, if, if we're best friends, if we're, you're, you're our closest ally or whatever it is, like, you, it's up to you to explain to Americans, if you want to continue to get that support, why we're so close. What is the information? Now, I hear a lot of people when I ask, they're like, uh, we get, um, what is it called? Uh, uh, intelligence.

• 1:23:40Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:41Speaker 04

  Okay? So intelligence can essentially mean like, hey, there's this terror attack that's gonna happen. You guys should do something about it. Let's, let's operate in best case scenario, right? And I know there's already people on the air that are like, oh, you're fucking, you're just bootlicking the Jews or whatever the fuck it is. I'm just saying, best case scenario. They've given us information to thwart 20 more 9/11s, let's say. Because I doubt there's one planned attack on America, right? There's probably a bunch.

• 1:24:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08Speaker 04

  So let's say they've given us information that stops 20 others. They can't tell America, "By the way, we gave you the information to stop these attacks, because now you're going to give up those people that are embedded in those like terror institutions, or even the country's governments that are planning these attacks." So now you remove your intelligence. So there is a version where America's giving them this amount of money a year, and we're getting intelligence that is valuable to us, but you can't communicate that to American people. Okay, well, you need to figure out something else to communicate.

• 1:24:39Speaker 06

  Even if they did communicate it, I feel like people wouldn't believe it.

• 1:24:41Speaker 04

  That's also possible.

• 1:24:42Speaker 06

  Imagine they put out like, you know, a news headline, the Israel Times, and they're like, "Israel stops terror attack in America."

• 1:24:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:47Speaker 06

  Everyone be like, "Yeah, alright, of course you did."

• 1:24:49Speaker 04

  Because now you're just saying it because it didn't happen. But if you are, because here's the reality of the world, like, once- They control the media. But, but this is the reality of the world, it's like, once something happens, like, the government is always going to be a reflection of the people, right? So like, if there isn't support for something in America, you will not get money, eventually.

• 1:25:13Speaker 06

  Wait.

• 1:25:15Speaker 04

  There's waning support in America for the war in Ukraine.

• 1:25:18Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:25:18Speaker 04

  Right? Americans are kind of suffering, they feel like they don't have money here. And they were like, "Why are we sending billions of dollars over to this other country? I don't really know anybody from there, I don't really understand how it's an existential threat to us personally, like, I don't get it and I can't afford eggs." So like, if any billions of dollars is going anywhere, send it, send it over here first. I think that's the feeling a lot of Americans have. I think if the economy was absolutely flourishing, we don't give a fuck about USAID. We don't care about the Chinese plays they're doing in the Philippines, or whatever the fuck they want. But in America, when times are tough, naturally, and I think it's a very reasonable response, we start looking at where the money's going. You know what I mean? Like, if you're not spending a lot of time with your dad, but your dad's out here doing all this other shit, you have some resentment towards all those other things your dad's doing, you want to hang out.

• 1:26:02Speaker 04

  So I think in those moments, it's up to those countries that are getting help to show us the value that they're bringing to us. You have to find a way to communicate that value. Otherwise, Americans start feeling taken advantage of. Now, we might not be, and you have to leave that space open. I think people are like, they're determined that they know exactly what's going on. There's a little bit of an addiction to conspiracy in general. They're very exciting and fun. They make people feel really smart. Like, you know something nobody else knows? That's the quickest way to feeling smart. But I think there is a burden on any country that we're giving money to. It could be Ukraine, it could be Israel, it could be fucking any other country. There's a burden on them to understand what they're bringing. I think partially that was the mineral deal they were

• 1:26:46Speaker 04

  doing with the Ukraine. I think it was like, I think it was like, listen, we need to, you need to give us a reason why we should continue giving you weapons. And that would have maybe pacified the American people. We'd be like, oh yeah, we got all their minerals. So honestly, we're getting shit cheap and it's actually beneficial to us. So I think Israel need to figure out what that mineral shit is. And just, and you have to do that for a geopolitical reason, because you have to convince the American public, it is worth sending our money that can make our eggs cheaper, or whatever we believe. It doesn't matter if that's reality, it's perception. What do we believe to be true? You gotta figure that out, because it feels like in America right now that support is low.

• 1:27:24Speaker 06

  And when the economy is tough, the ideological wars don't go as far.

• 1:27:29Speaker 04

  Can you explain? That is great.

• 1:27:30Speaker 06

  Like, if things are expensive and I'm having a hard time buying food or supporting my family, I don't give a fuck about communism.

• 1:27:35Speaker 04

  I don't give a fuck. I don't care about terrorism. I don't care about none of these other things.

• 1:27:38Speaker 06

  Supporting democracy, you're like, who cares?

• 1:27:40Speaker 04

  That is a place of privilege where we could worry about your issues over there.

• 1:27:43Speaker 06

  My house is communist. We're all splitting one omelet. This is hard, like, fact. Focus on the communism here, not over in like Vietnam or whatever. Let's do this.

• 1:27:52Speaker 04

  Hundred percent.

• 1:27:52Speaker 06

  And so, the second the economy gets tight, everyone's like, alright, where's the, where's the money gone?

• 1:27:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:27:56Mark Gagnon?

  I do think that some of the frustration in Gaza is that, and maybe there is, and I'm missing it, but I don't see enough Jewish people speaking out against what the Israel government is doing. Like, I'm not subscribed to like... What's, I don't know, one of your institutions.

• 1:28:12Speaker 04

  Parrots or something.

• 1:28:14Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but I just don't see it. So it's like, it seems like all Jewish people are in support of what's going on over there because no one's speaking out against it.

• 1:28:21Speaker 04

  That is, and then, yeah, that's an interesting, that's an interesting point, too, which is like, because even within Israel, it's quite divided, right? So, but that is an interesting thing where it's like, if you feel under attack, your knee jerk reaction is to support the side that you believe is defending you.

• 1:28:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:36Speaker 04

  But by doing that, you're supporting the actions of the government.

• 1:28:39Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:39Speaker 04

  Which a lot of Americans feel is like, okay, you did the job and now you're twisting the knife.

• 1:28:45Mark Gagnon?

  Like, now it feels like it's wrong.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  Now it feels like it's going too far.

• 1:28:48Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Now you're asking Jews to like defend everything ever.

• 1:28:52Speaker 04

  But here, well, here's the other thing, here's the other thing.

• 1:28:54Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, no, yeah, you could. It could be a slippery slope and I can understand why they wouldn't want to be like, all right, we're doing this bad. And then we're like, see, and now what else are you doing bad? I can see that morally prove myself to every person that I meet. But I think the Americans, we did it once we realized, hey, there's no weapons of mass destruction. We are here for no reason. This is wrong. Let's stop this. I think we called ourselves out on that shit.

• 1:29:14Speaker 04

  Have you apologized?

• 1:29:15Speaker 07

  Yeah, how did you publicly post it?

• 1:29:16Mark Gagnon?

  I feel like I've heard you say anything. I put a post up. I black squared it and shit like that. Say sorry to the Iraqi people right now. We were like, it took us a while.

• 1:29:28Mark Gagnon?

  We definitely got our natural resources.

• 1:29:30Speaker 04

  Took us to March 2025.

• 1:29:33Mark Gagnon?

  But we were calling out, we were saying like, this war is wrong. Like, I think the people were calling, saying the war was wrong. Once we found out that we're in weapons of mass destruction.

• 1:29:41Speaker 04

  Well, here's the thing, like, there's a lot of people that aren't, there's a lot of people that aren't going to say is wrong. But another thing that we got to decide is like, we can't get caught, we can't get caught up in right and wrong. We have to get caught up in perception. Perception is reality. And this is important for countries to understand. The perception of Zelensky coming into the Oval Office, not wearing a suit. Doing like a vague threat about it could affect you guys and like being contentious with Trump and JD Vance, the perception to Americans, most of who aren't really informed about the conflict was like, hold up, son, I gave you $400 billion and this is how you talk in our White House?

• 1:30:22Speaker 04

  Cut the money off. Now, there is much more nuance to what's happening in that war. There's much more nuance to what's going on in the world. Like if you talk to people that are from the countries that are around Russia, they get taught every single day in school like Russia still thinks Estonia is part of Russia. You know, all those countries like we might be Russia one day. So like they have a different perspective, but it's up to those countries to understand American perspective. It don't matter what your reality is. It matters if you want the money and you want the support, you have to meet us where our reality is. You know, this is, we get into these discussions all the time in, in American culture where it's like about like the trans debate or something like that. And, you know, somebody goes, I don't want trans women competing

• 1:31:04Speaker 04

  against women in sports. And a lot of like left-leaning people will be like, oh, it's a red herring and that's not actually a real issue. It's like, okay, that might be what you feel, but you're not addressing what these people feel. It's like you get, it's like you do something to upset your wife and then she's, she's like, that upset me. And you're going, but that's not a real issue. Does that work ever? No.

• 1:31:26Speaker 06

  But I paid for the apartment.

• 1:31:27Speaker 04

  Exactly. They don't want to hear that shit, right? You have to meet people where they feel. So a lot of times people get caught up in these like logical arguments and like, oh, but America actually did this, which is just as bad as that. That might be true and factually true, but the reality of what we live in is the perception is off and you need perception on your side for the support that's going to allow you to continue, I guess, doing whatever you want to do for your country.

• 1:31:52Speaker 06

  But then you're battling the emotional volatility of a populace rather than the logical coherence of the leadership.

• 1:31:58Speaker 04

  Welcome to geopolitics, my boy.

• 1:32:01Speaker 06

  Then you would hope like, okay, we're dealing with like the logical leaders that are gonna support what's best for their people despite them not knowing what's best for them.

• 1:32:07Speaker 04

  I, I don't think we're dealing with, I think we're dealing with, I think they're also reacting to the emotional volatility in their countries. Like, I think, I don't think it's surprising that like, once this war starts ratcheting up, Putin starts going back to the Orthodox Church. And talks about like how important it is to be in church, in church of the foundation of family, when apparently before that, you never even saw him in one. So if you're gearing up for war, you want God on your side. You know, like, he, he's, he's making emotional moves. Trump makes emotional moves all the time. People don't trust the food. Put the guy who says the food is bad as the leader of the food. That's what we did in America, right? Like, we don't trust the alphabet agencies.

• 1:32:45Speaker 04

  Put the chick who says that these alphabet agencies are not working the best interest of the people in charge of the alphabet agencies. Like, these are emotional reactions. Whether or not they'll be fruitful, we're gonna see. But you have to be aware of what people are thinking, and you can't just go, ah, you guys are stupid. It's like, alright, keep saying that, you're gonna lose money. I think that's like the skill of a leader. It's like, I mean, this is a movie, so it's probably complete bullshit, but, I've used this reference before, but, uh, I forget who came over, it was like the King of England, like, gets support of, for the Americans. Like, the king came over and like, I think it was, uh, oh man, was it FDR told him, he's like, yo, you gotta,

• 1:33:25Speaker 04

  if you want Americans who are German immigrants and Italian immigrants to go to war against Germany and Italy, to go to war against their relatives, their cousins, their uncles, you need to convince us that you are like us, that you are more like us than they are. You need to eat the hot dog. You need to wear some regular shit and eat a hot dog. Don't act like some king that we fought wars to get away from. You need to feel like you're one of the boys. So you got this king who had eaten, eaten with a knife and fork and perfect manners going, alright, let me scarf a hot dog. And that's how simple Americans were, we're like, that motherfucker, we gotta die for him.

• 1:34:00Speaker 06

  He's like, he's glizzy.

• 1:34:01Speaker 04

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:34:02Speaker 06

  Wow, he didn't eat it this way.

• 1:34:05Speaker 06

  That shit with the corn on record's club, oh.

• 1:34:07Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah, the long ways, huh?

• 1:34:09Speaker 06

  That shit had me dying, bro.

• 1:34:11Speaker 04

  The funny is, somebody said, uh, someone said, uh, someone said, yeah, yeah, I bet you eat the Snickers, uh, from the top down so you feel the veins. Damn.

• 1:34:23Speaker 06

  That is how I eat it though.

• 1:34:26Speaker 06

  How else to eat us knickers, bro?

• 1:34:27Speaker 04

  So, so what, what, what do you think we do in these type of situations like?

• 1:34:32Speaker 04

  Yeah. What, what do you do when there's like waning sentiment? Put yourself in the shoes of another government. You can put yourself in the shoes of Israel, Ukraine, whatever.

• 1:34:38Speaker 06

  Well, it depends what cards you have to know how to play. For example, like, I mean, if you're China, then all of a sudden your cards open up way more. Because why you have, you have control of little Tik Tok and control not necessarily how people feel from the messaging you tell them, but rather what you subvert into the, uh, into the content of the app.

• 1:34:54Mark Gagnon?

  Okay. What about America?

• 1:34:55Speaker 04

  Well, no, real quick, just on shit, just on this one, this is really interesting. It's like, uh, right now there's this distrust of media, right? Like if there's any reporting that's like protecting Israel, right? The knee jerk reaction from people who are critical of Israel is, yeah, but they control the media. Right? So you can write it off immediately. The subversive nature of Tik Tok is that it's everyday people in their bathroom just saying some shit. And it pops up on your phone. You don't see some news ticker. In a weird way, we have more trust. That's fucking, so like the way you subvert the narrative is you have regular people echoing the sentiments.

• 1:35:38Speaker 04

  Instead of the professional journalists, which now don't have, we don't have the same faith in.

• 1:35:43Speaker 06

  Or what America did in the Cold War with modern art or with, you know, rock music and like, in like.

• 1:35:47Speaker 04

  What was the rock music thing?

• 1:35:49Speaker 06

  Just like putting it into Soviet like countries, basically, like putting into the Soviet Union, like sneaking in like albums and sneaking in Western influence. Or then even just like promoting modern art and like, look at how free we are. And you're able to then win this culture war and the soft power. People are like, man, America's pretty cool. We're not as rigid as over here. You know, they're, we're not, they're not totalitarian, you know? And so with that, you can change the hearts of people and then get them to not fight as fervently for the country that they're technically named.

• 1:36:14Speaker 04

  Israel, y'all need two more seasons of Curb Your Enthusiasm. Stat.

• 1:36:18Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 1:36:19Speaker 04

  Yo, Larry David, get off the couch and get back to cooking. That might be the only thing that could pacify Americans.

• 1:36:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:36:26Speaker 04

  A 22 episode season of Curb Your Enthusiasm? We'd be like, what's the deal with Hamas?

• 1:36:32Speaker 07

  What if we bring back Seinfeld?

• 1:36:34Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yo.

• 1:36:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, but we do need like Israeli soft power. You know what I mean? It's like the Israelis really want to win it over. Cause we got Jews in America, but we're just like, ah, they're American, you know? Like Larry David, he's American, right? Seinfeld is American. You need an Israeli, you know?

• 1:36:46Speaker 04

  That's interesting. There is no like relationship between America and Israel in terms of the Israeli people. Our idea of Jews is the American version of them. And then that's it.

• 1:36:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:57Speaker 04

  It kind of, and it's kind of like just the Ashkenazi New York. We don't really know Jews outside of like white New York Jews.

• 1:37:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:37:06Speaker 04

  Like we, there's, we have no idea of like the Dove Jews. Like the African ones, there's no concept of that in America. And I wonder if that like skews the perspective of like what's happening in Israel. You think it's just these white people that look like Seinfeld. And Israel, right? When it's a bunch of darkies like Dove.

• 1:37:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, that's true.

• 1:37:29Speaker 04

  I mean, what is the, what is the perspective of like in Israeli to an American? Like, what is that?

• 1:37:34Speaker 06

  Hacid.

• 1:37:35Speaker 04

  Like, really?

• 1:37:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:37:37Speaker 06

  I feel like, yeah. And I don't know if it's propaganda or what, but like you see Hacid, he's pop up on Twitter. Or like on Instagram and they're just killing them, just going off in the comments.

• 1:37:46Speaker 04

  I mean, they're fun to make fun of.

• 1:37:47Mark Gagnon?

  The dude that would come over here sometimes, he would sit at the table.

• 1:37:50Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. Our handler. Yeah, we have. Yeah, yeah. Israel sent us a handler.

• 1:37:55Speaker 06

  Our AIPAC delegate.

• 1:37:56Speaker 04

  Exactly.

• 1:37:56Mark Gagnon?

  That is what I think.

• 1:37:59Speaker 04

  We got an AIPAC delegate. Yeah, like somehow this guy would have fucking Yom Kippur kept walking into the studio. They're good.

• 1:38:06Speaker 06

  Yeah. He got assigned from the Israeli government. He's like, yeah, go look at these guys and call each other gay.

• 1:38:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:38:11Speaker 06

  I can't get Amsterdam or something like, no, no, no, you go over there.

• 1:38:14Speaker 04

  Dude, how lucky is he? He could be in a bomb shelter. No, he's making gay jokes with us on Flagrant once a week.

• 1:38:19Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 1:38:20Speaker 04

  Yeah, we need to look into this, to the show. That's all I'm trying to say, like perception is important. There are so many people online who will give you every single like statistical fact. And they'll be like, yeah, but America did this even worse in this time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think we care about that? We don't care about that. You are dealing with emotional people. There's that Jonathan Haidt book. It's called The Righteous Mind.

• 1:38:38Speaker 06

  Yep.

• 1:38:40Speaker 04

  Read that shit. Read that shit, okay? Because you're trying to like logically address what people are going through and just like arguing with your wife, that shit ain't gonna work.

• 1:38:50Speaker 06

  Yeah, you can't reason people out of a position they didn't reason into.

• 1:38:52Speaker 04

  In the first place.

• 1:38:53Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:38:54Speaker 04

  Hundred percent. We are your wife. You gotta treat everybody like your wife.

• 1:38:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:38:58Speaker 04

  Especially on the geopolitical stage. You could do the strong man shit, but then you gotta be able to bang out. Not everybody is strong.

• 1:39:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, people try to do this during like George Floyd and shit. What they do, where they were like, oh, black people like actually technically cops kill you guys the same as other people.

• 1:39:11Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. How'd that make you feel?

• 1:39:14Speaker 06

  Like shit.

• 1:39:14Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's like you go, you know, you don't go, oh, those are the stats. Well, I'll.

• 1:39:18Speaker 06

  And all lives matter. Like, like, come on, bro, you know, yeah.

• 1:39:21Speaker 04

  So it's like, you need to be met emotionally. You need someone to acknowledge like, yo, it does seem fucked up. I get why you guys feel that way a hundred percent. Like, I see these videos and it's fucking disgusting. It's terrifying. Right? And then you could also go to cops and be like, listen, it's hard to be you. It's hard to make those decisions in the moment. Like, that's a fucking tough job. Like, you're going out there. We're an armed public. You don't know who got a gun and who doesn't in America. Like, that's a scary fucking place to be. You start there.

• 1:39:48Speaker 06

  But nuance is uncomfortable.

• 1:39:49Speaker 04

  It is very uncomfortable, but it is more comfortable if you at least meet somebody where they're feeling.

• 1:39:54Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:39:54Speaker 04

  Like, if you acknowledge what they're feeling and not make them feel like a retard for it, which is like what our, I don't even know if it's like our, our political rhetoric has become. It's just this like dunk on economy. It's like, you're stupid because, you know, I'm right because.

• 1:40:08Speaker 06

  It does require a lot of like, uh, like empathy to be able to be like, hey, I feel for what black people have gone through historically and currently in America, but also I feel for what cops are going through.

• 1:40:18Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:40:19Speaker 06

  And it's hard to feel like, oh, I understand what, you know, Ukraine's going through, but I also understand what Russia's going through. I understand what Gaza's going through. I also understand what Israelis are going through.

• 1:40:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:40:26Mark Gagnon?

  Do you think it would help if like a prominent Jewish person came out and was like, hey, you guys don't understand, we've been at war with these people for a really long time. Yes, maybe the government has been, was gone a little heavy-handed with the response, but until you're in it, you really don't get it. Do you think that would help any sentiment?

• 1:40:44Speaker 04

  My concern is you can't start any discussion with you don't understand.

• 1:40:49Mark Gagnon?

  Okay, well.

• 1:40:50Speaker 04

  But.

• 1:40:50Mark Gagnon?

  Put it differently.

• 1:40:51Speaker 04

  I think, I think that.

• 1:40:52Mark Gagnon?

  Hey, we got attacked. Like our response, you might deem it as excessive, but we feel this is what's necessary in order to like, end this conflict that's been going on for all these years.

• 1:41:06Speaker 04

  In my, again, I don't know, but my estimation, it doesn't feel like they're very concerned with the perception of what's happening.

• 1:41:13Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, and that's what I'm saying. Like, I think people need to speak out more to help with that perception.

• 1:41:18Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I think that there's like a lot of like-

• 1:41:20Mark Gagnon?

  Because without speaking out, we feel gaslit. Like, oh, we can't say anything because you're just gonna call us anti-Semitic. And not us. I'm just trying to-

• 1:41:29Speaker 04

  Yes, yes, that that would potentially be thrown out 100%. Yeah, it's a, it's a really tricky situation. I don't know what, I think that, that what people want to feel, the people who are really against this war, what they want to feel is that they're right, that the war is bad, and it's wrong, and what's horrible what's happening. So it's gonna require somebody on that side going, you're right, it's horrible, it's happening, and this has gone too far, and this is disgusting. But we're still gonna do it. Like, that's a very tricky position to be in. You know, so it's like, but again, I think a major component of this that nobody's talking to is Americans not really knowing what we get out of some of this support. Like, what do we get out of it? What is the concern? Like, if we found out that like, Hamas was

• 1:42:11Speaker 04

  also behind all these potential terror attacks that were happening here, and their base that organized them was doing that, and that there were four different attacks that were about to happen, they were thwarted because of that intelligence, blah, blah, blah. Then all of a sudden, Americans might go, whoa, whoa, whoa, okay, okay, okay, we're under serious threat. You know what I mean? Like, we might feel under serious threat, so we're like, all right, if you gotta bang out, you gotta bang out, and we got you. But I think Americans are removed from that threat. I know 9/11 was that long ago, but I think we are, we're quite removed. We're definitely removed from the existential threat of Russia. Like, we just don't feel it. I can't speak for everybody, but I, I don't, personally, I don't feel it.

• 1:42:46Mark Gagnon?

  We forget. Forget quick.

• 1:42:49Speaker 04

  I don't feel like-

• 1:42:50Mark Gagnon?

  Eric Adams is running for mayor. We forget.

• 1:42:53Speaker 04

  The goat, bro. We got Eric out of, you invade us when we got Eric out of.

• 1:42:57Speaker 06

  He's not afraid.

• 1:42:58Speaker 04

  Not afraid at all. Yo, he'll have four Turkish airliners in Russia tomorrow. Okay, with bad bitches. The best airline you ever seen.

• 1:43:07Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.

• 1:43:08Speaker 04

  In Russia tomorrow.

• 1:43:09Mark Gagnon?

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 1:43:10Speaker 06

  But then the question is, what if they can't find a justification for why America needs to support Israel? Is it the, is it a necessity for the state to then create propaganda? Or do they just say, hey, unfortunately, we don't have anything?

• 1:43:23Speaker 04

  So I think the concern right now is that like propaganda in its old form is no longer useful.

• 1:43:31Speaker 06

  Okay.

• 1:43:32Speaker 04

  Useful meaning, uh, no, sorry, effective. So like, I don't think the, I don't even know what the propaganda is anymore. I, I like, I don't even think that.

• 1:43:39Speaker 06

  I think it's effective.

• 1:43:40Speaker 04

  But, but like, what is the propaganda that they're giving us? Like, the only way the propaganda works is if you create a threat against me. Like, what is the concern for me? And I don't see that. I, the only argument I see is like, well, America would, would have done something 10 times worse and has in the past. It's like, all right, but you not us. Like, you know what I mean? Like, like, okay.

• 1:44:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:44:07Speaker 04

  So it's like, if, again, I, that, that's where I'm saying it's like, you have to, we have to feel an actual, the propaganda has to induce an actual fear, which is what the propaganda for communism did. Like, that's MacArthurism or whatever happened. Like, we're like, looking for people and, oh, are these Hollywood slubs, they're actually fucking communists? The, the American way is going to be completely destroyed. Like, there was real threat to America. Right now, we don't feel threat from Hamas at all. Right? And so the fact that we don't feel threat and we're supporting this thing, which we're seeing all these videos and it's like horrifying. And you're just like, whoa. So what is, I don't even know if they're giving propaganda.

• 1:44:50Speaker 04

  Like, what is the, like, what is the good, useful propaganda?

• 1:44:53Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I guess that's the point, is that there isn't really.

• 1:44:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:44:56Speaker 06

  Because Americans don't know why there's all this stake.

• 1:45:01Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:45:03Speaker 04

  It's, I mean, so it's tricky and this is one of the things that like, we're talking about like, how leaders gotta get support for things. We're not talking about whether things are right or wrong, right? Right or wrong is in, you know, the eyes of the person that's doing the doing, right? Like, I'm sure they feel justified. They're like, "Look what happened to us. We're responding to this attack." And I'm sure Hamas feels justified. They're like, "Look what has happened to us," and then we do that. So, both of them feel like they're in the right and the other is in the wrong. And we're sitting over here going, "What's this got to do with us, yo? Eggs are fucking a hundred dollars. Why'd they get forty billion when eggs are a hundred dollars? You know, buy forty billion dollars worth of eggs before we go do this shit." So, you need to massage, if you want support, you need to work on that.

• 1:45:45Speaker 04

  Because if not, you're gonna have so many people asking questions about this. I think if the economy was absolutely flourishing, everybody's rich, Bitcoin's at a hundred, I don't even think we're looking about what's happening in Ukraine. I think everybody's trying to buy GWAG. Everybody's trying to start up some business on Instagram. Like, when the economy's doing well, Americans, we don't even look outside. We only look outside for vacation. We're not looking where the money goes. It's like, everybody gets robbed. Everybody who makes a lot of money, like an athlete, or a rapper, or something like that, like a musician, everybody gets robbed when they're making all the money. They don't realize it until they default on their house. And then they're like, "Well, my money manager took five million and this person..." You don't notice that in the moment.

• 1:46:28Speaker 06

  Yeah, when I have to pay taxes, I like unsubscribe from HBO.

• 1:46:31Speaker 04

  Immediately!

• 1:46:32Speaker 06

  I just look, I just look to see what's going on. But then HBO will send me an email and be like, "You watched these shows this past year." And I go, "Oh, that's..."

• 1:46:38Speaker 04

  "Give me my propaganda."

• 1:46:39Speaker 06

  "That's a good point."

• 1:46:40Speaker 04

  "Tell me what I paid for."

• 1:46:41Speaker 06

  "That's a good point." And then HBO will set up a terror squad from Netflix to shoot up my house. And I go, "Whoa, we gotta get down." "What the hell's going on?" I mean, that is, that is my evil statecraft. If I was like the Machiavellian king of Israel, you prop up Hamas terror cells in America.

• 1:46:58Speaker 06

  Okay, secretly, surreptitiously, through some other country, some type of proxy war. And then they caused domestic terrorism within the United States.

• 1:47:05Speaker 04

  And then we go, Hamas can't exist anywhere.

• 1:47:08Speaker 06

  We gotta get rid of Hamas.

• 1:47:08Speaker 04

  Wherever Hamas exists, we're rooting it out.

• 1:47:11Speaker 06

  Ooh.

• 1:47:11Speaker 04

  Now, you're not suggesting that they do this. This would be horrible.

• 1:47:13Speaker 06

  I've just been reading 48 Laws of Power, so.

• 1:47:15Speaker 04

  That seems like a very effective book to learn how to deal with these types of conflicts.

• 1:47:18Speaker 06

  So now I've become a master of power and deception and lies. But like, I don't know, if I was, if I was an evil, you know, you know, world builder, that's what I would do.

• 1:47:27Speaker 04

  If we don't care about you, you're not getting our money.

• 1:47:30Mark Gagnon?

  Did you learn to hypnotize yet?

• 1:47:31Speaker 04

  No, that shit is fake. I think Al could be hypnotized 100%.

• 1:47:36Speaker 06

  I know I can.

• 1:47:38Mark Gagnon?

  The fuck?

• 1:47:40Speaker 04

  He thought he was white in his past life, bro.

• 1:47:44Mark Gagnon?

  I still believe that past life regression shit.

• 1:47:46Speaker 04

  Lowkey, we need a hypnotist on the pod to hypnotize you. I think you're going down immediately.

• 1:47:49Mark Gagnon?

  I wouldn't let you guys do it here. Fuck outta here.

• 1:47:51Speaker 04

  Oh, come on.

• 1:47:51Mark Gagnon?

  No, you're gonna have me kissing Miles.

• 1:47:52Speaker 06

  I was about to say.

• 1:47:56Mark Gagnon?

  Shit, I'm gonna come back to and kill myself? Fuck outta here.

• 1:48:01Speaker 06

  We did, we got a mentalist at the last Mary Lou show.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:48:04Speaker 06

  Oh, it was the best.

• 1:48:04Speaker 04

  Wait, really?

• 1:48:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:48:05Speaker 04

  Tell me what happens.

• 1:48:06Speaker 06

  This guy, Josh, the foodie magician.

• 1:48:08Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:48:08Speaker 06

  Which also, can we just point out, a lot of people think that Jews have magic.

• 1:48:11Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:48:11Speaker 06

  Which I don't think that's true.

• 1:48:12Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:48:13Speaker 06

  But every famous magician is Jewish. So you guys do have to answer for that also. That it's just, there's a lot. Copperfield, David Blaine, this guy, the foodie magician.

• 1:48:23Mark Gagnon?

  Houdini.

• 1:48:23Speaker 06

  Houdini, yeah. Infamously.

• 1:48:25Mark Gagnon?

  We love magic, guys. We love magic. You can get us some back on your side, man.

• 1:48:31Speaker 06

  So I don't think Jews have secret powers, but you guys are the closest to having secret powers. If we just look at magicians.

• 1:48:36Speaker 04

  Whoa.

• 1:48:37Speaker 06

  I'll take it.

• 1:48:39Speaker 06

  But he went up on, on the show and like guessed like all this crazy, like, he like knew the restaurant that I liked, my favorite restaurant. Wrote it down on a thing, revealed it. And then had it on an Instagram post from two months ago, like the name of the restaurant, everyone else's things. He guessed like some girl's like dog. And then all the black comics on the show were just fucking furious. Just watching the show, just from the back, just like, what the fuck is going on?

• 1:49:01Speaker 04

  And we supposed to believe they don't, they don't control the weather?

• 1:49:04Mark Gagnon?

  He didn't come to my show. I went to the later one.

• 1:49:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:10Mark Gagnon?

  We just, we just had an annoying couple in the front that I was so happy. She like, they went to the bathroom, the couple, and then while coming back, they both bust their ass. Get back to the table. It was so good. And then she tried to get up and bust their ass again.

• 1:49:24Speaker 04

  No.

• 1:49:25Mark Gagnon?

  I had to run out laughing.

• 1:49:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:49:26Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I would have like disrupted the show.

• 1:49:30Speaker 04

  How often are you doing the show? Monthly? Yeah, once the last Tuesday of every month. So the last Tuesday every month, Mark does a show at Mary Lou and Mark and Joey Avery, they run a show at Mary Lou. Great comedy show and an awesome venue. I usually, you should go to, uh, it used to be a place called Cafe Orland. And Jamil and I used to have breakfast there every single week of our lives. The first podcast I ever recorded my entire life that never saw the light of day. Me and my boy Bobby, you guys know Bobby, uh, recorded at Cafe Orland, just on a random like zoom, zoom mic with no actual microphone. What was the discussion of that podcast?

• 1:50:00Mark Gagnon?

  Just some wild shit.

• 1:50:04Speaker 04

  But, uh, but yeah, so like it's a great show. I've done it. You guys should go check it out and it's the last Tuesday of every single month. So have you posted tickets for the next thing yet? No, we're actually gonna be posting it up. Okay. So today we'll come out, go get them shits. It's fantastic. They do two shows a night and you never know who's gonna pull up. You guys have some nice little, uh. Yeah, we found a good little lineup. Yeah, I like this. I like this a lot. Very fun, very fun.

• 1:50:24Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, it's a good time.

• 1:50:25Speaker 04

  All right. What else we got before we wrap this up? Are we gonna run through some feelings, no facts real quick? Let's get it. You saw Kanye talking to Faith Rogan? No, poor Kanye.

• 1:50:34Speaker 04

  Poor Kanye.

• 1:50:34Mark Gagnon?

  Cause no poor Kanye, fuck Kanye.

• 1:50:36Speaker 04

  Did you see this? Click it. Kanye goes on, on Twitter. He's like, guys, I'm playing another podcast with Joe Rogan. Here you go. And then Rogan tweets at him and goes, yeah, that's not me. Do you think Kanye did that on purpose? Like he gotta know he's not talking.

• 1:50:52Mark Gagnon?

  Can't, can't let him, can't let him have it all, man. Come on.

• 1:50:55Speaker 04

  Do you think he's just doing this? He's just, he like, he knows he's not talking to Rogan. He's just, yeah. Like some people were pointing out like, oh, it's fake text messages and da, da, da, da.

• 1:51:03Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:03Speaker 04

  And then like he put the whole thing together. There's also another.

• 1:51:06Mark Gagnon?

  Really give Kanye that much credit? I really couldn't believe that he was talking to, he thought he was talking to Rogan.

• 1:51:12Speaker 06

  Maybe I bet you he was trying to get on and then it wasn't really lining up. And so then he put it out in the universe.

• 1:51:17Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, to try to force his hand.

• 1:51:18Speaker 06

  Something like that, like, I don't know.

• 1:51:20Mark Gagnon?

  But Rogan's not that tight.

• 1:51:21Speaker 06

  No, not at all.

• 1:51:22Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:23Speaker 04

  Nah, this is just, yeah, sad.

• 1:51:25Mark Gagnon?

  I think somebody just hit him with like, hey, this Rogan is my new number.

• 1:51:29Speaker 06

  Oh, he believed it?

• 1:51:30Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:31Speaker 06

  Wow. I mean, yeah, I guess that would get me. That would get you.

• 1:51:37Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:51:37Speaker 06

  Fishing scam?

• 1:51:38Speaker 04

  Oh, I get fish all the fucking time.

• 1:51:41Speaker 04

  Also, shout out Rogan, man. That was a fun episode. The, uh, the paddle community internationally is going crazy.

• 1:51:47Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, it's lighting up.

• 1:51:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz we spoke about paddle, like, he didn't know what paddle was. And, um, it's also, it was so interesting, like, Rogan knows pretty much everything. So him finding out about something is like rare. And like, he was like, wait, what is this sport? Like, he literally knows every, he talks to every expert in every field. And then I bring it up, it was so cool, just to see every like paddle page talking about it.

• 1:52:13Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:13Speaker 04

  I don't know what the, what it's similar to, like, uh, it's like, we're like part of like an indie rock band or something like that. And then we get mentioned on MTV or something.

• 1:52:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's, it's a new sport.

• 1:52:24Speaker 04

  You're right, it is new. But it was cool to just talk about on like the biggest platform in the world and then also see all the, the people in the community be really excited about it.

• 1:52:31Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:32Speaker 04

  This also just shows like, obviously, everybody knows the biggest platform in the world, but it does, it is, I imagine, quite validating for the sport that we're all obsessed with, that we have to tell people is not pickleball every single day. So like, get spoken about on this thing. And then Rogan being like excited about it.

• 1:52:47Speaker 06

  Well, that's what Joe's best.

• 1:52:48Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:52:48Speaker 06

  Is that like, you tell him something new and he goes, I'd love it.

• 1:52:51Speaker 04

  I'd wanna know about it more.

• 1:52:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:52:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:52:53Speaker 06

  Whereas Alex over here.

• 1:52:55Speaker 04

  That shit is gay.

• 1:52:56Mark Gagnon?

  It usually is, in case.

• 1:53:00Mark Gagnon?

  Do you see, y'all recording yourselves playing? It ain't that tattered.

• 1:53:05Speaker 06

  With your fucking tennis pose. He does these like cryptic little tennis pose.

• 1:53:09Speaker 04

  Yeah, well, do you know what he's doing this week?

• 1:53:10Mark Gagnon?

  I be having matching outfits and shit.

• 1:53:12Speaker 06

  I do that shit too, I hang a lot.

• 1:53:15Speaker 04

  I am like, what do you want for Christmas? I go paddle.

• 1:53:20Speaker 07

  But you act like that's new. You match all the time anyway.

• 1:53:23Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 1:53:23Speaker 04

  Now, but you gotta flex when you on a court, bro. You gotta stunt on them.

• 1:53:26Mark Gagnon?

  I even have to tie head shit like Agassi.

• 1:53:31Speaker 07

  That's why you're matching with a couch right now?

• 1:53:34Speaker 04

  You know how like when we would play ball back in the day, like the dude that had the perfect basketball outfit was always ass?

• 1:53:40Mark Gagnon?

  Always ass, yeah. That's me.

• 1:53:41Speaker 04

  But now I get why they did that. Cause up to the point when they play, they don't really look like ass. So you basically have like that 15 minutes of warm up before the person that you're playing against know you suck. Where you like, all right, I got it. Like when we were in Dubai and we were in Abu Dhabi, they gave us the paddle shirts with our names on it. So I'm showing up to the court with a fucking name on my back. My name.

• 1:54:05Speaker 07

  They think you're Emirati.

• 1:54:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, they think I play pro for the UAE.

• 1:54:10Speaker 07

  Propaganda. Soft pal.

• 1:54:14Mark Gagnon?

  So, um, so my birthday's next week and so for this weekend, I'm going to a tennis hotel.

• 1:54:22Speaker 04

  That's what paddle. I've heard about these.

• 1:54:24Mark Gagnon?

  So it's like five, six different courts. They just all year round. They have like different trainers there and shit like that. And so players just come in and out, all inclusive.

• 1:54:31Speaker 04

  Where are you? Where is it?

• 1:54:32Mark Gagnon?

  In Dominican Republic.

• 1:54:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:54:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. So my shorty will just be on the beach. I'm gonna be playing all day. Perfect birthday.

• 1:54:40Speaker 04

  This is like, perfect. This is the dream.

• 1:54:42Speaker 07

  Rob and Nadal has it in Mallorca. I think people go for the week.

• 1:54:45Speaker 06

  They don't have a paddle hotel?

• 1:54:46Speaker 04

  They

• 1:54:47Mark Gagnon?

  Sholsey, you need to do that.

• 1:54:49Speaker 04

  I need to make it.

• 1:54:49Mark Gagnon?

  You need to do that.

• 1:54:50Speaker 04

  Basically, any vacation that we try to make up, we're first looking at, Jason and I are going like, okay, where's the paddle, right? And we have, we thought that we had that locked in with St. Bart's, but like getting anything to a Caribbean island is like just this mound of bureaucracy you have to get through, even for like these rich bougie people. At the other day, like there's something funny about government is like even the richest, most bougie people, they gotta like tuck their cock between their legs and beg some local mayor. Please can I get my paddle court? And they, the maker, mayors just go, nah, we're too busy. We can't do that shit. So they didn't have it up, but every vacation I try to take, I want to make sure there's paddle. So what you're doing, I'm like so envious of, it's unbelievable.

• 1:55:29Mark Gagnon?

  My girl's on board. I was like, oh.

• 1:55:31Speaker 04

  Cause she gets to go to the beach.

• 1:55:32Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:32Speaker 04

  You guys have a nice breakfast together.

• 1:55:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:34Speaker 04

  You have a nice dinner.

• 1:55:35Mark Gagnon?

  They're not playing.

• 1:55:35Speaker 04

  And then you play in between and she hangs at the beach. She reads.

• 1:55:37Mark Gagnon?

  Great.

• 1:55:38Speaker 04

  Tell me this isn't an awesome vacation.

• 1:55:39Mark Gagnon?

  Every year.

• 1:55:40Speaker 07

  Playing tennis every day, very white. But having a whole week for your birthday. A whole week for your birthday, Barry Black.

• 1:55:48Mark Gagnon?

  I get that.

• 1:55:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, so you need to do both.

• 1:55:50Mark Gagnon?

  We take it over to sport. We got Coco, we got Sheldon, we got a few.

• 1:55:54Speaker 06

  That's a good point. Yeah, that's a good point.

• 1:55:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, there are a few.

• 1:55:57Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:55:57Mark Gagnon?

  We doing good. Tell me. Watch out, we gonna come for paddle, bro.

• 1:56:01Speaker 04

  I would love that. I would love that because you are kind of like imprisoned.

• 1:56:10Speaker 04

  There's a fence.

• 1:56:16Speaker 06

  Stephen A. Smith was a guy into a beef with LeBron.

• 1:56:19Speaker 04

  Yo.

• 1:56:20Speaker 06

  You saw this?

• 1:56:20Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:56:21Mark Gagnon?

  Stephen A. for president, bro.

• 1:56:22Speaker 04

  Yo, Stephen A. is, uh, he's, that's a real one right there, bro. A lot of people would be terrified of beefing with LeBron because of the leverage he has over the the sports media.

• 1:56:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:35Speaker 04

  And, uh, Stephen A. don't give a fuck, bro. It's actually interesting. I wonder if you cannot give a fuck more now that like information is decentralized. Like he has his own podcast. Like he doesn't need ESPN. Even if ESPN was like, hey, that's the golden goose. Don't piss off LeBron. He'd be like, all right, I just won't talk about it over here. I'll just get all the ratings on my pod.

• 1:56:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:56:56Speaker 04

  So I wonder if you're getting like a more honest version of sports journalism where back in the day it was very much curated.

• 1:57:01Speaker 06

  You need to get scoops. You need to get all this stuff.

• 1:57:03Mark Gagnon?

  And he just got a hundred, 100M. So they're not upset of what he's saying about LeBron. He said they're like, yeah, run it up.

• 1:57:09Speaker 04

  Run that shit up.

• 1:57:10Mark Gagnon?

  But that was a big misstep on LeBron, though.

• 1:57:12Speaker 04

  Can you tell me what it was about?

• 1:57:15Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, it was just like, keep my son's name out your mouth type thing.

• 1:57:18Speaker 04

  Son, your son is a professional athlete, LeBron. I get, I get, what's that?

• 1:57:22Speaker 07

  I don't think it was about his son specifically playing. It was something that he compared Carmelo uh, and his relationship with his son to LeBron.

• 1:57:30Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 1:57:31Speaker 07

  And it was like, it was sort of like a weird little like sneak test from what I understand. And, uh,

• 1:57:35Speaker 04

  So he wasn't insulting the way he played the game. He was insulting like his role as a father?

• 1:57:40Speaker 07

  Yeah, it seems more like that, to be honest, from what I understand. Like I was reading up on.

• 1:57:45Speaker 06

  A bunch of people that were like sort of pinning it and like the time code of what he was saying.

• 1:57:49Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but he said a bunch about Bronny. So it's like, I'm pretty sure he's just tired of him constantly bringing up his son.

• 1:57:56Speaker 04

  Well, look, here's the reality, right?

• 1:57:57Mark Gagnon?

  He just made it 10 times.

• 1:57:58Speaker 06

  So like this, this is one of the quotes he said, I'm pleading with LeBron James as a father, stop this. And in regards to Bronny's playtime in the NBA.

• 1:58:05Speaker 04

  Right. And the idea is the only reason Bronny's there is because he is LeBron's son.

• 1:58:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:09Speaker 04

  Which is a perfectly reasonable excuse. Now, I will say there's G League games where Bronny seems to be going off.

• 1:58:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:58:15Speaker 04

  So, but when he plays at the elite level, he doesn't have, he doesn't have any numbers that reflect his ability to play in the NBA.

• 1:58:22Speaker 06

  That's what I believe Stephen A is saying where it's like, he's not ready.

• 1:58:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:58:25Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:58:26Speaker 06

  And then LeBron's coming at him like, yo, as a father, stop talking about my kid.

• 1:58:29Speaker 04

  So this is a tricky thing. It's like, because your father's in this advantageous position, you're going to be able to bestow certain uh, opportunities upon your kid. And he even mentioned this before. He's like, what, you know, I see white people do this all the time. They get their kids' jobs that they don't deserve. So he goes, so I support you doing it. But at the same time, that doesn't mean it goes without criticism. Just like it doesn't go without criticism when you see the nepo baby shit with white people, with Jews, with anybody, right? It's like, we criticize the nepo babies. We like to see people who have earned things and deserve things.

• 1:59:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, we just don't have like a commentary for hedge funds.

• 1:59:05Speaker 04

  We should.

• 1:59:06Speaker 06

  We should. We shouldn't have a Stephen A for hedge funds. And every week they just go through all of them. They're like, yo, this trade, this person hired this guy, that was fucked up. They got money from this person.

• 1:59:14Speaker 04

  That'd be fire.

• 1:59:15Speaker 06

  We should just have a watchdog that just goes off on all the financials.

• 1:59:18Speaker 04

  It's just so boring to look at all that financial.

• 1:59:21Speaker 06

  Stephen A can make it awesome.

• 1:59:22Mark Gagnon?

  That person makes it a monk before they get taken up.

• 1:59:24Speaker 06

  Also that.

• 1:59:25Speaker 04

  Anyway, the point is, is like, I guess you can't have it both ways. Like you can get your kid a job that maybe he doesn't deserve. But you can't also say nobody's allowed to criticize him. And if he doesn't deserve it, this is a merit based business, sports. You're going to get extra criticism. So I get it as a father, like you want to ride for your kids. I hundred percent understand that, but. It's not gonna stop it. Like LeBron can say whatever he wants. The only thing, the only reason I would say don't do it is because it's just gonna put more gas on it.

• 1:59:55Mark Gagnon?

  That's what he, yeah.

• 1:59:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, and this is I feel like the second thing in the past week that I've heard LeBron saying about the media. What'd he say? Like he was talking about this thing with, uh, who was it? Uh, Anthony Edwards, I think? Where he was like, or I forget, uh, Tatum, where he was like, why do you want to be the face of the league? So you can just get criticized all the time, get criticized every day, day in, day out, everything you do picked apart by the media. So I, it feels like at this point in his career, he's like, I should be beyond this, but I'm still getting nitpicked at every single turn. You know what's interesting, man? Is that, uh,

• 2:00:25Speaker 04

  I don't know if this same criticism would happen 10 years ago. LeBron has one probably year left. He might do two or three, he could play as long as like his body holds up and his body looks great. But let's say he's got one or two years left. When the media knows you have one or two years left, you don't have the leverage that you had when you have the next decade to dominate the sport. The media is moving on and finding new stars. They're not as reliant on you for the success of the league as they were in the past. Like it's in the media's best interest, if you're a superstar, for you to be a superstar. Cause the bigger you get, the more attention these people in the media get. I think it's probably one of the arguments for protecting, they say they protected Jordan, right?

• 2:01:09Speaker 04

  It's just like, yo, let, can you just not post bad shit about the golden goose and let us?

• 2:01:14Mark Gagnon?

  And that's the difference though. I feel like they've always talked shit about Bron. Like, yeah, it's very little, but they've always done it throughout his career. You remember, he wasn't clutch in the beginning.

• 2:01:24Speaker 04

  You're right, you're right about that.

• 2:01:25Mark Gagnon?

  His record in the finals, like, he never got the Jordan treatment. And maybe that's why he's disgruntled about.

• 2:01:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, but why do you think that is?

• 2:01:33Mark Gagnon?

  I think just too much competition in sports media and it's like.

• 2:01:36Speaker 04

  Oh, wow, that's interesting. It's like you need a take and there's 40 different shows and they're all gonna have a take. And what's the most interesting take is saying that the, one of the greatest of all time is actually not the greatest. And that's, yeah, that's what we do just with everything.

• 2:01:47Mark Gagnon?

  So imagine if you're him, he's like, yo, I, look at what I've done. And you're still.

• 2:01:52Speaker 04

  And that probably fuels you when you're like 28.

• 2:01:54Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:54Speaker 04

  But when you're 41, you're just like. And you've already done everything. You've won all the records or the lead scorer, like you've done everything and you're like, finally this will shut them up. Nope.

• 2:02:02Speaker 06

  And then you're like, fuck this.

• 2:02:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, cuz your greatnessism would shut them up or not.

• 2:02:05Speaker 06

  And I wonder if there's even a part of him that's like, I've been subjected to this my entire life, my entire personal life picked apart. I can't live in privacy. Like, everything sucks.

• 2:02:13Mark Gagnon?

  And now I'm putting my son through this. So he's probably trying to squash it early, like, yo, chill.

• 2:02:18Speaker 04

  And that's not.

• 2:02:18Mark Gagnon?

  You can talk about me, but chill out on him. Oh, that's a good ass.

• 2:02:21Speaker 06

  Yeah. And I wonder if he feels like a little bit of a sense of like, yo, I'm putting my son through this terrible bullshit I put myself through. And he's a great player, but also like, we're good. Like, I did this cuz I'm, I came from nothing in Akron, Ohio.

• 2:02:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:33Speaker 06

  But my kid doesn't necessarily have to do this.

• 2:02:34Speaker 04

  He really doesn't have to go through it.

• 2:02:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:36Speaker 06

  If he doesn't want to. But like, now he's gonna be subjected to it even more scrutinized.

• 2:02:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:02:40Speaker 06

  I was compared to Jordan, and now my kid is gonna be compared to me. And like.

• 2:02:44Mark Gagnon?

  And he probably feels personally responsible because he knows his son doesn't belong in that spot. And it's cuz he leveraged his son to get in that spot. So now you're responsible for all that hate he's getting.

• 2:02:54Speaker 04

  I wonder if he's grappling with that thing where, where it's like, is this Bronny's dream? Is he doing this to impress me? Have I kind of like pushed this ambition onto him? Like, that's a tricky one.

• 2:03:07Speaker 06

  And through no fault of his own, like, just by becoming this virtuoso about this thing, your kids are gonna wanna emulate you.

• 2:03:12Speaker 04

  You see how much people admire your father. You wanna do that thing that they admire your father for, naturally.

• 2:03:17Speaker 06

  I wanna be a comic just cuz my dad told funny stories.

• 2:03:19Speaker 04

  Facts.

• 2:03:20Speaker 06

  Yeah. And so imagine your dad's the greatest ever. You're like, yeah, you wanna take a, you know, part in that lineage.

• 2:03:25Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. It's tricky.

• 2:03:28Speaker 06

  And I wonder. I feel for LeBron.

• 2:03:29Speaker 04

  I wonder if he justifies it like.

• 2:03:31Mark Gagnon?

  I feel for both Bron and Bronny.

• 2:03:33Speaker 04

  Oh, sure. But I wonder if, I wonder if LeBron justifies trying to squash the criticism by saying, you don't talk about any other G League player like this.

• 2:03:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:03:42Speaker 04

  Like, he's like, yo, just treat him like every other G League player and don't cover him, which you do. So he goes, he might think in his brain, he might be, you're just doing this to either get at me, or because you know it's clicks, but it's not genuine or authentic because you don't talk about G League players at all. But he's gotta reconcile the fact that.

• 2:04:01Mark Gagnon?

  They're not treating Bronny as a G League player.

• 2:04:04Speaker 04

  But he'll see it like that. I bet, I bet you in his mind. I bet you LeBron is like, no, Bronny should be in, should be in the NBA and he should be in the G League. Like, he's better than these other guys. I see him hoop with them. Like, he actually has guys on his team that I'm sure he's like, Bronny's better than him. I don't even know why the fuck we got this bum on the team. And also, there's that bias of being a dad. Like, everything you see in your kid is gonna be the best. So I wonder if he genuinely believes that the criticism is unfounded and he's reacting in kind.

• 2:04:31Mark Gagnon?

  And it probably is because the fact that he's balling in the G League, like, it's probably a mental thing when he gets in.

• 2:04:38Speaker 04

  Also, like, when we saw him at the Garden, like, he gets put in with 30 seconds left and obviously, they're gonna try to get him some buckets. But keep in mind.

• 2:04:47Mark Gagnon?

  They call it garbage time for a reason.

• 2:04:49Speaker 04

  Facts. But think about it. If you're playing D on the last 30 seconds of a blowout, you're also the bum on the other team and you're like, I ain't letting this kid score on me. So he's not going against garbage time defense. He's going up against some young whippersnapper who's like, Bronny is not scoring on me. This guy everybody calls a bum is gonna score on me? Now I'm gonna lose my 10-day contract? Fuck that. I'm putting the clamps on this kid. So he's probably going against weaker defense in the G League just in terms of effort.

• 2:05:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, because they're treating him just like another player, probably. There's probably a little ego.

• 2:05:23Speaker 04

  I'm sure there's ego.

• 2:05:24Speaker 06

  Compared to the league, it's like, yeah, different level.

• 2:05:27Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's tricky, man. As a dad, I get it. As a dad, I get it. But, but as, yeah.

• 2:05:35Mark Gagnon?

  But that was like, Zelensky, he should have did that in private.

• 2:05:40Mark Gagnon?

  That's the misstep.

• 2:05:41Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:05:42Mark Gagnon?

  You know you got Stephen A.'s number. You could have just had that same convo in private.

• 2:05:46Speaker 04

  Also, Stephen A. told us, like, when somebody tells me in confidence something, I maintain that confidence. He's like, that's how you build trust with the players. Remember he was on the pod saying that? He's like, there's a bunch of things that people told me in confidence. I don't let that go out there in the world. If something happens publicly, I will address that.

• 2:06:02Mark Gagnon?

  Yep.

• 2:06:03Speaker 04

  Yeah, that was like an emotional.

• 2:06:07Speaker 04

  Yeah, a little misstep right there on Bron's part. A little misstep right there on Bron's part.

• 2:06:10Speaker 06

  I wonder if he has told him in private.

• 2:06:15Speaker 06

  I wonder if he's like, hey, just chill with all that.

• 2:06:17Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:06:18Speaker 06

  And then didn't chill.

• 2:06:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. What you saying, Duff?

• 2:06:22Speaker 07

  Look at Mark's text for some breaking news.

• 2:06:25Speaker 04

  Oh, what do we got?

• 2:06:26Speaker 06

  Ukraine agrees to US-led ceasefire plan if Russia accepts.

• 2:06:30Speaker 04

  So, so real quick, just on this. This is, this is something that I've, I've been thinking about a little bit recently. I'm not talking about like the fringe groups, like the fringe right or the fringe left, right? Talking about like the average, just kind of like working American.

• 2:06:51Speaker 04

  I think that we agree on like almost everything.

• 2:06:56Speaker 04

  And not in terms of like, what is a better functioning government or that kind of stuff? In terms of like, human to human basis. You know, like, I don't want these people to suffer. I want people to have an opportunity. Some people think that that opportunity is better when things are privately run. Something people think it's better when there's a little bit bigger government that can offer assistance. But like, on the human to human level, that what they, what we want for each other is very similar.

• 2:07:22Speaker 04

  So our reaction to this administration and the past administration is really based on optimism or pessimism. So I, I treat this administration with optimism. Like, I see Trump's tariff stuff and all those other things, and I'm like, okay. It's hard to litigate something geopolitically in the public eye. But maybe this is his version of getting a better rate by throwing these tariffs. And then they come back and they go, okay, don't give us 100%, just do 10%. And then we'll lower your tariffs that we impose on you, like, like. And I wonder, he's negotiating, unfortunately, he has to negotiate in front of the world. And he can't exactly tell America, yo, by the way, we were just, I'm not really gonna do 100.

• 2:08:06Speaker 04

  We're just trying to get them down. Because once he does that, he loses the leverage, right? So I treat it with a little bit more optimism. Whereas someone who doesn't like Trump, but is still just like a reasonable person, he or she looks at it with pessimism. They're like, he's gonna tank the economy. He's gonna destroy this. But it doesn't mean that we don't want the same thing. We want an American, America that flourishes. And we just get caught up in the tribal rhetoric. But I really think that's, and then the same thing with like the Democrats. There was a pessimism that we looked at the Biden administration with the people that were more sympathetic to what Trump was saying, right? We're like, yeah, I don't think America will be as good if that happens. I think that more people will suffer or at least not be able to move out of this very difficult situation they're in.

• 2:08:51Speaker 04

  But in terms of what we want for each other, I think it's very similar.

• 2:08:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:08:55Speaker 04

  I think we just get caught up in this like, it feels so black and white. It's really not. It's like, yeah, we want things to be cheaper. The Democrat, people, Democrats are like, yeah, I think that the Democrats have a way of doing that. I think it's gonna be better for people. And Republicans are like, yeah, I actually don't think that that's been working. Let's try something different. But the way that it's spoken about online is so good versus evil that I think we think that we're on opposing sides in terms of the end goal. We're really not. It's just like, for example, Charlemagne is more pessimistic about what Trump's administration is doing. I'm more optimistic about it. I'm sure if the Democrats were in power, he would be optimistic about what they're doing and their strategies. I might be more pessimistic about it. We both want the same thing.

• 2:09:38Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:09:38Speaker 04

  We want better trade deals. We want better things for America, right? We, we don't want some shit that's fair. Fuck fair. We wanna come out ahead. I want a better deal with Canada, a better deal with Mexico, a better deal with, I want, I wanna win all that shit.

• 2:09:51Speaker 06

  And it's kind of a, I feel like where I sit is like a dumb position sometimes because like I feel so jaded by political discourse that I just am like, wait and see.

• 2:09:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:09:59Speaker 06

  Which I've said before, but like, it's kind of a cop out, fence sitting answer. But at the same time, I'm like, is the ceasefire good? It's like, alright, it's good. But then all of a sudden, part of Ukraine gets absorbed and you're like, is that good?

• 2:10:10Speaker 04

  That doesn't seem good.

• 2:10:11Speaker 06

  And then Soviet Union reorganized, you're like, is that, like, I don't, you know what I mean? So it's like, until it actually affects me on like a personal basis or like the American society at large.

• 2:10:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:10:19Speaker 06

  I kind of try to reserve judgment. I'm like, just wait and see. And which isn't a good position necessarily from like a broadcasting standpoint. You know what I mean? Cause people wanna know what the shit is.

• 2:10:28Speaker 04

  They wanna feel any one opinion. But I also think like, sharing that sentiment is important because there's people that also feel that way.

• 2:10:33Speaker 06

  There's a lot of people.

• 2:10:34Speaker 04

  Because this shit really is a Rorschach test, right? Like, and I'm exposing my bias. I see that there's a ceasefire deal, right? So this is my bias right here. I'm like, all right, Trump pulled the money after that meeting. And all of a sudden, we got a ceasefire deal. Right? Now, that might not have been how it has gone at all. Some other shit might have happened with European support. And then somebody else backdoored with Putin and had a conversation, whatever. But in my biased mind, I'm like, see, sometimes you gotta play hardball. And then it ends up working out. Let's see how these tariffs work out over here.

• 2:11:06Mark Gagnon?

  And which goes back to perception, because I'm pretty sure Trump is going to frame it that way.

• 2:11:10Speaker 04

  Of course. And then his base would be like, see, I told you so. And then his opposition will be like, this had nothing to do with you. This was actually negotiated by Saudi Arabia and there's another deal or whatever the fuck.

• 2:11:22Mark Gagnon?

  But yeah, all the noise online is just like sports analysts. Everybody wants to be first to the take. And you need to have the more outrageous.

• 2:11:28Speaker 04

  Salacious outrageous take.

• 2:11:30Mark Gagnon?

  How you gonna get views?

• 2:11:32Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're like, you almost wish that there's a way that you could be. Like, how far does the pendulum need to swing before the most salacious thing is the most trustworthy thing?

• 2:11:46Speaker 04

  Like, I feel like.

• 2:11:46Mark Gagnon?

  Are we in those times?

• 2:11:47Speaker 04

  Well, I don't know. Like, every time I think we are, and then like, you could say, wow, conspiracy theories. And it seems like all of Twitter is like, yep, that's fact. That is 100%. Like, I wonder when conspiracies are just so mainstream that there's like this thirst for, all right, just tell me the boring truth.

• 2:12:06Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, you mean when it swings back? I thought you meant, yeah, okay.

• 2:12:08Speaker 04

  Like, I feel like right now.

• 2:12:10Mark Gagnon?

  We're like at the top of the swing.

• 2:12:12Speaker 04

  Conspiracy is everything. Like, I'm like, I can't wait till like, some doctor comes on and goes, all right, we did all the tests. This is the boring truth about vaccines. This shit is boring, but this is what it is.

• 2:12:23Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but we like story. We like a good story. Conspiracy is a good story.

• 2:12:28Speaker 04

  You're right, no, but I wonder like, the societal value in conspiracy is like, you know some shit that nobody else knows. But if it becomes so popular, right? The new conspiracy will be the truth that thwarts the conspiracy. Everybody knows the conspiracy. Like, I remember I first read that.

• 2:12:51Speaker 04

  That Dan Brown book.

• 2:12:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, Da Vinci Code.

• 2:12:53Speaker 04

  Da Vinci Code.

• 2:12:54Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:12:54Speaker 04

  And I remember just being at parties in college like, yeah, but this painting actually means this. The ninth empire and like, it was just great. It felt so cool to share that information.

• 2:13:04Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, this is you at the fucking museum.

• 2:13:06Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07Mark Gagnon?

  Do you see the symbols?

• 2:13:09Speaker 04

  For this reason.

• 2:13:11Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:13:11Speaker 04

  So. But I wonder, and then once that book became so popular, regurgitating that information was less, uh, like there's less dopamine.

• 2:13:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, cause you'll tell people, they go, yeah.

• 2:13:23Speaker 04

  Yeah, I read, I read that book too.

• 2:13:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then someone's gonna be like, well, did you know he's actually a crazy guy named Lee Harvey Oswald? And everyone's gonna be like, no way, that's crazy.

• 2:13:33Speaker 04

  Right? Like, I, I wonder if, if once conspiracy theories become so mainstream that you no longer get the dopamine hit from sharing that like secret information? That now the cool information to know is, yeah, I mean, nine 11, like this guy was on a job and he had the information. He decided to not look into it and he fucked up. In order to cover his ass, he had to blanket statement that this really happened. And that's why it appears like it's this grand conspiracy, but it's really just incompetence at the highest level and somebody trying to cover up or whatever the fuck it is. And then people go, what? That's what really happened? Like, I can't wait till society is so aware of every conspiracy that the boring truth is the hot shit.

• 2:14:15Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 2:14:16Speaker 04

  I don't think we ever get that.

• 2:14:17Speaker 06

  I don't think they have.

• 2:14:18Mark Gagnon?

  Cause what you just said is.

• 2:14:20Speaker 04

  Boring. I know. I know.

• 2:14:24Mark Gagnon?

  What happened to building number seven? That's what you wanna know.

• 2:14:28Speaker 06

  Yeah. And then even if the truth comes out, then people go, oh, well, we can't trust the authority of where the truth came from.

• 2:14:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:14:34Speaker 06

  You know what I mean? Like you kind of see with like alien bubbles where people are like, oh, aliens are real. Everyone's like, no, you're crazy. And then everyone's like, no, aliens are definitely real. And then eventually the governments can be like, yeah, aliens are real. And people are gonna be like, this is a psy op. This is trying to make like global control and these aliens are fake. And so aliens.

• 2:14:48Speaker 07

  Underwater type shit.

• 2:14:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, like you go from, oh, aliens are real, they're covering it up to then, oh, they're obviously flouting aliens to trick us.

• 2:14:54Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:14:55Speaker 06

  So it's like, I think it just shifts form just due to this subversion of authority. It's like, nah.

• 2:15:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I don't know if it changes. People need storytelling and they need a, a search for truth. And there's always like these threads of truth that exist within all these conspiracies that people want to tie onto.

• 2:15:10Speaker 04

  God damn.

• 2:15:11Speaker 06

  Yeah, dog.

• 2:15:12Speaker 04

  I just wanna know the world isn't as bad as.

• 2:15:15Speaker 06

  It feels.

• 2:15:15Speaker 04

  It's worse. It's worse.

• 2:15:20Speaker 04

  Listen, we love you all, man. We'll see you on Patreon this week. Patreon.com/flagrance. Peace.