Everything The Odyssey Got Wrong… & Why It’s Better

Yerrr on today's episode - SPOILERS! - Talking about The Odyssey - Inconsistencies with other versions of the story - Practical effects vs CGI - Andrew at World Cup Finals - Argentina Conspiracy theories And much, much MORE Timestamps: 00:00 Odyssey + Retelling an old tale 4:37 Oral tradition + Nolan made it better 8:51 Alexx's issues + One of greatest movies 10:58 Movies are BACK + Trying to die 16:33 Xenia + It's a lie 20:42 Alexx peed in a cup + Cyclops & Cleverness 23:11 Interpretations, Trojan horse + Zendaya underutilized 26:43 Hathaway is the GOAT + Identical baddie 29:24 War over shipping routes + Helen 31:51 Land of the dead, Dune link + Relatable 39:17 Sirens depiction 45:19 Calypso's offer + GOT TO GO 49:44 ... And then, Going home + Piping Penelope 53:44 Ranking this against Nolan's films 56:14 Damon SHREDDED 57:16 Alternate endings + Digger 3 times 59:40 Practical effects, Cyclops + Paddles 1:04:45 Pig people particle effect 1:06:43 CGI + Diminishing returns 1:12:02 Imperfections + Buster Keaton 1:14:35 IMAX is overrated 1:17:26 Method acting inconsistencies 1:22:58 Lupita helped the film + Elliot rumor was nonsense 1:26:17 Submission + Marvel inspired by Hindu mythics 1:29:15 World Cup Final Live + NFL is confusing 1:33:08 Israel true winners + Argentines everywhere 1:35:48 Martha Stewart, Myles Garrett + Serena Williams 1:39:17 Andrew's PL team, Fans ruthless + Mark's TIGHT 1:49:26 Lamine Yamal + Everyone's behind Spain*** 1:55:48 Corruption, Bail out + Argentine conspiracy 2:02:01 Give it to MESSI + Ronald wouldn't 2:03:48 Argentina cheating v Peru + Drawing fouls 2:07:57 Choosing N**is + 1492 2:12:01 More teams! ------------------- This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App’s bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. Cash App Visa® Debit Flex Cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC, and The Bancorp Bank, N. A., pursuant to a license from Visa U. S. A. Inc. See terms and conditions for the Sutton prepaid card, Sutton debit flex card, and Bancorp debit flex card. Savings provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's up everybody, welcome to Flagrant, it's your boy Schultz. I'm here at Alex Media, Marky Gags, Miles Media, shifty's lurking in the room somewhere.

• 0:10Speaker 01

  Spooky.

• 0:12Speaker 00

  We all just saw The Odyssey except for Mark. Mark is continuing his, I refuse to watch movies.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  It's not even on purpose, I don't have all the time.

• 0:19Speaker 00

  Mark did a whole podcast for camp about The Odyssey without seeing the fucking Odyssey. Nobody cares about the old Odyssey.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Source material, source material, I'm going to ancient sources.

• 0:28Speaker 00

  Son, the ancient sources are fake too.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  Nah, that's real to me.

• 0:33Speaker 00

  This is the funny thing about like, everybody's like, oh, oh Nolan's interpretation from The Odyssey is different from the real one. And it's like, we don't have a real one. We have some guy's interpretation of The Odyssey like 700 years later.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  Nah, Zeus is supposed to be Greek, bro. You can't make Zeus fucking Asian or whatever.

• 0:53Speaker 00

  Wait, was he Asian in this?

• 0:54Speaker 01

  Nah, but if they did make him different races, that'd be hilarious. People would still be mad about it. They'd be like, dude, Zeus is supposed to be a white guy.

• 0:59Speaker 00

  Did you guys think at all about, like, alright, so Alex saw it, obviously Miles saw it. Alex, Alex is gonna take the wind right out of his sails, I already know he's like.

• 1:08Speaker 01

  I'm gonna be fair, I'm gonna be fair.

• 1:12Speaker 00

  I ran out the theater, cuz I was watching this theater and there was literally 12 people in there. And it was a tiny theater, it might have been like 60 seats. So like the exact opposite of how Nolan wants you to watch this movie, right? Could not be more opposite. And they all had like cartoonishly gray hair. It was all, it was like 12 old people.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  That's the theater you go to get some head, bro. You don't watch movies there.

• 1:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, cuz they would have no fucking clue. But anyway, they were all watching it, right? And I don't even know why I brought this up.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  You ran out.

• 1:41Speaker 00

  Oh, I ran out because I didn't wanna hear any of the old people complain. Cuz I saw Superman in that same movie theater. And before I could get out and feel the joy of the movie that I really liked, they were like, oh, it's not like the old Superman. So I ran out before I could have anybody mess it up. So when I hit the chat and then you later that night said to me, you're like, 3.5 out of 5 stars. I was like, it's okay, I already had 24 hours of enjoying it before Alex ruins it for me.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, the beauty of old people watching this is that the cameos don't take them out of it. You know what I mean?

• 2:16Speaker 00

  I'll tell you one thing, Lupita Nyong'o took them out of it.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Probably that, maybe a little. But like, my buddy went and saw with his mom, and she was like, the opening scene is Travis Scott. And he goes, fucking Travis Scott? And she goes, what actor is that? So she had no idea. So all the cameos, Elliot Page, they're just like, alright, these are human.

• 2:35Mark Gagnon?

  My show didn't know that was Travis Scott until after the movie.

• 2:39Speaker 00

  But everybody got so upset about the Travis Scott pick. Like, I get it.

• 2:43Mark Gagnon?

  No, they got upset about the black people.

• 2:44Speaker 00

  No, not even about the black shit. Also, there was probably mad black people in ancient Greece, right?

• 2:49Mark Gagnon?

  It should have been more.

• 2:50Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 2:51Mark Gagnon?

  In the movie.

• 2:52Speaker 00

  Let's not get carried away.

• 2:54Speaker 01

  Hamilton.

• 2:55Speaker 00

  What happened to all them when they went to hell? The only time everybody's black in the movie is when they're in Hades. That's kind of fucked up, right? Come on, Nolan, you're better than that. But, um, but yeah, like, I think, I assume the idea was, this was an ancient poem, and poets back in the day would retell this story to people. So they're taking a modern poet and starting the retelling of the story through him.

• 3:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25Speaker 00

  Is that that far-fetched?

• 3:26Speaker 01

  No, that's, that's the, that's what the defenders would say.

• 3:28Speaker 00

  And that's the only rapper that fucking Nolan knows, probably, like. I mean, I mean dead serious, like, you would be surprised how many people get cast in things based on, like, their kids liking the person.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:40Speaker 00

  So Nolan's kid's favorite rapper is probably Travis Scott. He thinks that's the only rapper that exists.

• 3:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  And he's like, I got fucking Travis Scott.

• 3:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, I got the rapper.

• 3:49Speaker 00

  And everyone else is like, oh, it's because he likes Batman. There's nothing, there's no correlation whatsoever.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, that's kind of how the, the Odyssey was told. There was a bunch of people, like, at bars and shit, basically, back in the day, retelling the story over and over, big Greek festivals. And they would, like, kind of change it, add their little things, put themselves in it.

• 4:06Speaker 00

  Also, just want to clarify, no spoiler alerts this entire episode, so you guys, if you haven't watched it, you will be.

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Bro, you don't have to say that. This is a 2,000-year-old story.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  Well, I just wanted to say that because we're gonna spoil the fuck out of it.

• 4:17Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, so I'm like, fuck you, I'm.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  It's a little game, I was like, if you haven't heard anything about the Odyssey at this point, dude.

• 4:24Mark Gagnon?

  Fast forward to this part right here if you don't want to hear about the shit.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  No, we're not doing that.

• 4:29Speaker 00

  Spoil passion to cry.

• 4:32Mark Gagnon?

  Miles is gonna put the timestamp right here, guys.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  I'm gonna put timestamp where Al cuts something out of this pod.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Anyway, I didn't fucking, I didn't have any issue with the Travis Scott like opening up. I kind of saw he was gonna do, and also if you think about it, like if the history is oral, it's an oral tradition, right? Like this story has been maintained over thousands of years. Before people were writing anything down, simply because it was a fire story and people liked to retell it. Right? So, kind of the movie is all, not all, a lot of it is told through story.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:02Speaker 00

  You know, so it's like Matt Damon's character is talking to Charlize Theron and she's like, tell me what you remember. And then look at this story. And then you heard John Bernthal's characters talking to Tom Holland. And this is what happened. So the oral tradition exists within the movie, which I thought was kind of fire. It was a nice little nod.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  The story in and of itself is a tall tale. Like it's all told flashback from a diss. He's being like, nah, the craziest shit happened ever. And then him just making up stuff.

• 5:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:29Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, is it foul to say like, this is the same way the Bible came together?

• 5:33Speaker 00

  No.

• 5:34Mark Gagnon?

  Cause isn't it the same?

• 5:36Speaker 01

  To an extent, you could say, yeah.

• 5:38Mark Gagnon?

  It was just oral for mad long. And then eventually somebody wrote it down. And then some interpretation of it is different from other people's interpretation.

• 5:47Speaker 01

  You could say that. The difference being that the Bible is wholly true and pure.

• 5:51Speaker 00

  Was it oral forever? None of the apostles were writing shit down?

• 5:54Speaker 01

  It was like shortly after the death of Christ. They were starting to like write down letters and stuff like that.

• 5:58Mark Gagnon?

  It's a long time.

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Maybe decades, something like that, you know? Sources differ on this.

• 6:04Mark Gagnon?

  Isn't the Old Testament?

• 6:05Speaker 01

  But then you got the Old Testament, you got the OT. You know what I mean? OT, they're writing that shit down.

• 6:09Speaker 00

  No, but like, so what are you trying to say? That it like, didn't happen?

• 6:14Speaker 00

  Which one are you trying to say didn't happen?

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Which one's more believable?

• 6:19Mark Gagnon?

  It's all for interpretation is all.

• 6:20Speaker 00

  Why is everybody saying this story is unbelievable? You don't think a guy who's been away fucking bitches for 10 years of war? Is gonna take the long way home? Like, I think people, like, when you go home from work.

• 6:32Speaker 01

  You take the scenic route.

• 6:33Speaker 00

  Fuck, I'm gonna take the Triborough Bridge.

• 6:36Speaker 00

  You're not trying to get right back to responsibility.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  You gotta see the Hudson a little and come back.

• 6:40Speaker 00

  Enjoy the spoils of war.

• 6:41Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:42Speaker 00

  You win the war and you're not gonna celebrate a little bit?

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Exactly. It is funny because they're like, dude, the journey took 20 years. It's like, it took a couple and he was on an island banging a calypso for a decade.

• 6:51Speaker 00

  That was another thing. They didn't have any, and Cersei and went back. You know, he went back to the Cersei lady.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't know.

• 6:58Speaker 00

  And put a seed in her. This is crazy.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  I didn't see that part.

• 7:03Speaker 00

  This is, this is, this allegedly happens after, but he gets the pig lady pregnant without even knowing she is a kid.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  That ugly bitch?

• 7:10Speaker 00

  But back in the day, maybe it was different.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're at sea for a while, you know, sea goggles. It changes things.

• 7:15Speaker 00

  Ooh.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  You know what I'm saying?

• 7:18Speaker 00

  So, uh, and then I guess maybe this happens. I learned it from the internet, so who knows? But, uh, has a kid, kid goes to look for his dad, finds, uh, Odysseus on an island randomly, doesn't know his dad, kills him.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Marries Odysseus's wife, which is his mother, kind of.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:40Speaker 00

  Half mom. And then Tom Holland's character goes and marries Cersei.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  So hot.

• 7:48Speaker 00

  What version is this?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  TikTok, bro.

• 7:50Speaker 00

  Don't ask questions.

• 7:52Speaker 01

  That's a show that's a little retelling.

• 7:55Speaker 00

  Yo, go see the Odyssey.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  It's like people that they write their own versions of fucking Harry Potter and shit like that.

• 8:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 8:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is this.

• 8:01Speaker 00

  That's, yeah, that's literally what this is.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And the version that we got is just like, low key, the original version could be ass.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  I don't know about that.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  It could be ass and the version we got was the first dude to write it down and he might've been the greatest interpreter ever.

• 8:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 00

  That's why I'm like, anybody criticizing Nolan is like Nolan made it better than the original. Like this is, if you read the original, Nolan's version is 10 times better. Because, uh, Odysseus isn't a dick.

• 8:30Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 00

  Like if he made Odysseus a likable character you could root for that was like vulnerable. That's not Odysseus.

• 8:38Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  Odysseus was an asshole. Like the whole journey is him dealing with his pride. Pride becomes hubris and he thinks he could take on the gods and all this stuff and they're like little glimpses of it in the story in like in no one's version. And they don't even really make sense.

• 8:51Mark Gagnon?

  That was one of the things I didn't like about.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  Talk to me.

• 8:54Mark Gagnon?

  So it's like you either have to make him the likable guy or he has to be the asshole who becomes the likable.

• 9:01Speaker 00

  Tell me the two blaring moments for you.

• 9:02Mark Gagnon?

  Um, when he shoots the fucking giant and fuck, what was the other one?

• 9:07Speaker 00

  If not, it'd be a cyclops, I think you're saying, yeah. For no reason.

• 9:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Ah, fuck. And then I think I kind of felt this when he was like lying to his people, even though I know he was trying to protect them, but what's the second part?

• 9:19Speaker 00

  Why you gotta hear the sirens? That's pure ego.

• 9:23Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  To me, it's pure ego. Now, I get it.

• 9:26Speaker 01

  I get it.

• 9:27Speaker 00

  Nah, like you wanna hear it, right? Like these people are willing to kill themselves just for this.

• 9:32Mark Gagnon?

  I wanna be the only one to hear it and live it.

• 9:34Speaker 00

  It's pure ego. It's like, I thought you were trying to get home to your wife and kid, but you're gonna risk all that just to hear it?

• 9:39Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 9:40Speaker 00

  So.

• 9:40Speaker 01

  Nah, you wanna hear it, bro. A little, you just wanna know.

• 9:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, we all wanna do a lot of things we're not supposed to do. That's the whole point of the Odyssey.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  You wanna hear, that's, that's the human instinct to be like, yo, I need to know.

• 9:50Speaker 00

  I wanna take the lotus flower and forget everything that's happened that's given me pain.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:54Speaker 00

  But the only way home is through.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know, but Zanbars are fire.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  Zanbars are fire.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  I was like, yo.

• 10:01Speaker 00

  That's what the lotus flower is.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. It's like, yo, you gotta go home tonight, right? You got your girl back home. You're like, yeah, but my boy's got, he's gonna QB sneak me. Do I stop it? That's what that, that's the human condition and that's what we're trying to overcome.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  I think in the original Odyssey, the original fake one that the guy interpreted for himself.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  I don't think he takes the lotus flower.

• 10:21Speaker 01

  He doesn't.

• 10:21Speaker 00

  And it doesn't happen with Calypso.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  No, those are two separate things.

• 10:24Speaker 00

  So the homies all take it because they wanna forget what happened.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then he's gotta like tie him down to the boat and bring him back.

• 10:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's like, I'm, I'm determined, so.

• 10:32Speaker 01

  He's the good guy in that one.

• 10:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:34Mark Gagnon?

  Also, what you give the movie? Out of five stars? Let's, let's turn.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  I think it's, I think it's, I think it's one of the greatest movies I've ever seen. I think Christopher Nolan is the greatest filmmaker that we've ever seen. And um, I think it, I think it's his, his, his best movie.

• 10:50Mark Gagnon?

  Bullshit.

• 10:52Speaker 00

  Can I, can I make a, can I make a little argument here? Okay?

• 10:55Mark Gagnon?

  Best movie?

• 10:57Speaker 03

  It's up there.

• 10:59Speaker 00

  Movies are back.

• 11:02Mark Gagnon?

  I'm done, I'm done with this guy. Alright, movies are done now, bro. Now movies are done.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  Now movies are done.

• 11:10Mark Gagnon?

  Movies are back! This guy.

• 11:12Speaker 00

  No, in, in, in all seriousness, um...

• 11:14Mark Gagnon?

  Do not believe anything he said.

• 11:16Speaker 00

  This could, this could only

• 11:18Mark Gagnon?

  This guy.

• 11:19Speaker 00

  function in a theater.

• 11:21Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 11:22Speaker 00

  If you put it streaming, I think that we would be like scrolling, we'd be kinda distracted by shit. It, cause let's be honest, it's about an hour and forty-five minutes of buildup.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  And then the last forty-five to an hour is Jordan in a closeout game.

• 11:42Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 11:43Speaker 00

  But the first hour forty-five, if you're at home with all distractions that you have, you have Instagram, you're Googling shit, your friends are saying, you're answering text messages, you got work you gotta do. I don't know if you're hanging out through like, okay, it's a side clop, it's okay, here's some tall giants, okay, here's a girl that turns people into pigs, like that part, like to me, I was like, you gotta honor the story, I get it, but...

• 12:05Mark Gagnon?

  It really sounds like you're describing the best movie ever.

• 12:07Speaker 00

  The last hour, you realize what all that meant. And he edges you for an hour.

• 12:13Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 12:13Speaker 00

  Or edges you for two hours, and then the last hour, I was literally like getting up out of my seat. Like I had my hands in the fucking air, dude. When he strums the bow in that final scene, and then it matches up with the music, cause there's two regular strums, then he does the third beat.

• 12:30Mark Gagnon?

  Mm-hmm.

• 12:32Speaker 00

  The idea, the only other times he strung the bow in the movie is for what reason?

• 12:38Mark Gagnon?

  To let the-

• 12:40Speaker 00

  You gotta warn your prey.

• 12:41Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, the prey's stupid as fuck, but I go-

• 12:44Speaker 00

  But again, this is inversion of him being an honorable man, which Odysseus wouldn't be.

• 12:48Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 12:48Speaker 00

  Like, the actual Odysseus from the Odyssey would never strum a bow. He'd see an animal and it was like, you know, feeding its kid and he would crack it over the head with a rock.

• 12:56Mark Gagnon?

  Hellfire missile.

• 12:57Speaker 00

  Stupid fuck idiot. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But the, uh, the fact that he's warning his prey and his prayer all in there and the only person that gets is the person that's seen him do that in the past. It's Rar Pat's character and he just dips immediately. Cause he knows what time it is.

• 13:10Mark Gagnon?

  But it's like, he, all this time away, finally, he's getting over his pride and his ego and he's making it home. And then, I wanna take on a hundred niggas by myself? That is getting over pride and ego? Not trying to talk to them first, maybe, hey, do you guys actually respect me? If I show you who I am?

• 13:32Speaker 00

  But he, but he-

• 13:33Mark Gagnon?

  Let me lock you niggas in a room and I'mma take you on a hundred one- is that, is that the actions of somebody who really wants to be with his wife?

• 13:40Speaker 00

  Well, he's-

• 13:40Mark Gagnon?

  He was trying to die.

• 13:42Speaker 00

  No.

• 13:44Speaker 00

  Why nobody talking about, maybe Penelope's shit stink a little? Cause like, there's no reason you're going to war for 10 years and taking the long way back.

• 13:53Mark Gagnon?

  That's why she need the gate.

• 13:56Speaker 00

  And he went, "Fine."

• 14:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, you just need a little distance, but from a distance, I'm a bad man, but don't get a whiff of it.

• 14:05Speaker 00

  Cause there's, there is some, there's gotta be some truth to that. Like, that's a crazy, that's a crazy journey.

• 14:12Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 14:13Speaker 00

  Quick tour announcements. We're about to release a bunch of dates that we're going to in the fall. We've set up this system where you can literally text Schultz to 858-758-2309, or you just go to dandrewschultz.com and you drop your phone number in the website and you will be notified if we are coming to a place near you or you'll be notified early when we are gonna release those tickets, okay? I know that we- We've been playing a lot of these clubs and you know, the clubs are not that big. So you know, the tickets might go quickly. This is how we get the hour ready and how we, you know, get ready to do the tour. So that's going to be happening the fall. I want to give you guys, obviously the people who are listening to Soul Asshole Army, the opportunity to get them first.

• 14:58Speaker 00

  So if you go text that or you go to the website, fill it out. They're going to give you first access to absolutely everything and I want you guys to get that. I appreciate how much you guys support. Also, quick update, remember this weekend, we moved the shows from Brea last weekend to this weekend and we added two more on Thursday. So when this is coming out, if you had tickets last weekend, obviously they're still good for this weekend. If you guys need refunds or anything because you can't make it, the club will absolutely make sure that happens. You DM me if there is any issue at all and I will get back to you, I promise. Sorry about the inconvenience, I really apologize and we added more shows and more people could be able to go and it will work with their schedules. Also Halifax will be there August 8th at Garrison Grounds, man.

• 15:41Speaker 00

  Halifax, Nova Scotia, August 8th, going to be an amazing show out there, outdoors, insane. And we've got an absolutely incredible show for you guys to go see. So come indulge. And yeah, go check that out for updates and very excited to release this next batch of shows, man.

• 15:58Speaker 01

  What's up people? Great news, I'm going to be coming to a bunch of cities at the end of the year to do standup comedy. I would love for you guys to join me. I'm going to Plano, Texas, Chandler, Arizona, Pasadena, California, San Diego, Detroit, and Salt Lake City. I would love for you all to come on out. I'll see you guys at the shows.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  Guys, this Saturday, I plan to see you guys all at my second tennis clinic that I'm throwing. First two sold out, so we decided to do a third one. The next one's going to be August 22nd. If you don't miss this one because hey, we're probably going to sell out again. Tickets are at theallloveclub.com. See you there. Peace.

• 17:03Speaker 00

  And like purposely takes the long way. He could have went with Agamemnon, right? Agamemnon was taking the trade routes and he goes, no, let's just see what's out there in the ocean. Like no urgency to get back to the wife and kid or the kingdom. And I think Nolan's interpretation is fire, which is like, I didn't want to go home. I knew what we did. We broke Zeus's law. That's going to spill across civilization. We broke the one thing that holds civilization together, right? This like, and some people are trying to project like, um, kind of Christian morality onto it. But I think that Zeus's law is like xenia or something like that.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, filio xenia.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, hospitality.

• 17:40Speaker 00

  Hospitality. So it's basically like, yo, we're seafarers people. You're going to bump into some like town. You don't know anybody, but you need them to survive. Let's just make sure it's mutual and we'll all kind of get along. Works out great. And Christianity probably in every other culture adopts a version of this. Treat people how you want to be treated. But so like him going back and fucking up all the suitors is also breaking Zenia's law. And that's why he's exiled.

• 18:08Speaker 01

  But I think they broke Zenia first by eating up all his shit, trying to bang his girl.

• 18:12Speaker 00

  So I thought about that. I don't think they did.

• 18:16Mark Gagnon?

  They didn't because they didn't attack him. As long as you don't attack any of the people there.

• 18:20Speaker 00

  No, not even him. Well, technically they, they tried to kill his son or whatever, but like.

• 18:23Mark Gagnon?

  They held back.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  But they were plotting to kill.

• 18:26Mark Gagnon?

  Plotting, but then they held back.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  They didn't hold back. He held them back. He killed them all in Athena's tomb.

• 18:31Mark Gagnon?

  They weren't in the house.

• 18:33Speaker 00

  Doesn't matter where.

• 18:34Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, if you're outside the house, the rules don't apply no more. Now, now we boys.

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Zeus's law is like specifically towards eating and where you eat.

• 18:42Speaker 00

  All right. So here, here, check it. They overstayed their welcome.

• 18:45Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 18:46Speaker 00

  Which is arguably breaking the law. Like as, as a visitor, you got to come with a gift and you got to not take too much. You got to respect the host.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  And they were drinking the wine dry.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  You're drinking the wine dry. But here's the thing.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  They think Odysseus is dead. It's been 20 years. Anybody who doesn't think, there's one person doesn't think Odysseus is dead, the dog.

• 19:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, Argos.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  And they got loyalty built in. Also, Argo's-

• 19:10Mark Gagnon?

  That was a scene I got.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  That little-

• 19:14Mark Gagnon?

  I fucking started selling like a doctor.

• 19:18Mark Gagnon?

  That was a scene I-

• 19:21Speaker 01

  I had to. That shit was crazy, bro. That's how fire dogs are. He wrote that 2,000 years ago. 2,000 years ago, we're like, your dogs are the only ones that'll arrive here forever. And Eumaeus.

• 19:31Speaker 00

  And, but Eumaeus believed he was dead. He just rode for him forever.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  But the fact that he took him in without even knowing who he was, fire.

• 19:38Speaker 00

  Think about it, because he still has the code. He still believes it was his code. But the other thing is, think about Eumaeus and the dog. They're metaphors for Ithaca and civilization. They're decomposing. When you first meet these people, right, they are amazing warriors, the dog's this loyal, spry thing. And by the end, he's just lying in fucking shit. This is what has happened to your great kingdom.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  This is what happened to your society. And the second he comes back, I guess there's this like transfer. He's like, Argos knows he can go. Because, you know, the king is home.

• 20:10Mark Gagnon?

  This thing have been watching mad YouTube videos.

• 20:12Speaker 00

  Son, I love it. I love it.

• 20:14Mark Gagnon?

  Cause I, I catch out.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  You get why it's the greatest story. This is why Alexander the Great slept with it under his pillow.

• 20:20Speaker 00

  Son.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  It was like, it was the undergirding of all Greek civilizations.

• 20:23Mark Gagnon?

  So, I like the fact-

• 20:24Speaker 00

  Can I just respond to that fucking lie? This is the beauty, this is the beauty of, of ancient shit. You could just make it up.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 00

  And we can't say nothing about it. Like, Alexander the Great didn't have a pillow?

• 20:40Speaker 00

  I'm supposed to believe this motherfucker is just marauding all around the village.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  Why didn't he have a pillow, bro?

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Every night before he goes to sleep. Where's my copy of the Odyssey? Let me put it under here. Fuck outta here, but you believe it.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  But he had a pillow, bro, I'm telling you.

• 20:55Speaker 00

  You believe Alexander the Great was, great was Greek? I love whatever I meant to say.

• 21:00Mark Gagnon?

  You believe it was straight?

• 21:02Speaker 00

  Nah. Let's not get carried away. Let's not get carried away.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  One question about the Cyclops in the movie.

• 21:08Speaker 00

  Oh, you were gonna say something, I cut you off.

• 21:10Mark Gagnon?

  Um, the, this was a movie that it was so long.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:14Mark Gagnon?

  But it kept me engaged the whole time. I didn't feel like it was so long.

• 21:17Speaker 00

  Yup, yup.

• 21:18Mark Gagnon?

  So much so that I had to pee in a cup because I didn't want to miss a second of it.

• 21:22Speaker 00

  I didn't, I didn't get up to pee.

• 21:24Mark Gagnon?

  I have to be real with the world. I gotta get it off my chest.

• 21:26Speaker 01

  This is the litmus test, bro.

• 21:28Mark Gagnon?

  I did, I did.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Pack theater?

• 21:30Mark Gagnon?

  In the theater.

• 21:31Speaker 00

  Pack theater?

• 21:31Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but I was, so it's a separate joint, so nobody could see me.

• 21:35Speaker 00

  Fire.

• 21:35Speaker 01

  Uh, bro. How, how do you do it? How do you do it?

• 21:38Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, you pull just.

• 21:39Speaker 01

  Out the side?

• 21:40Mark Gagnon?

  Hit the side joint.

• 21:42Speaker 01

  So you pop it all the way out?

• 21:43Mark Gagnon?

  Pop it out.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Is that a felony? Didn't Pee Wee Herman go to jail for this?

• 21:47Mark Gagnon?

  I was stroking it.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Well, you have to shake it, you have to shake it.

• 21:50Speaker 00

  You displayed it.

• 21:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, you displayed it.

• 21:51Speaker 00

  Displayed it, and there was kids in that fucking movie theater.

• 21:53Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I'm black, you couldn't see.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  No, that's garnishing, right?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  That's technically garnishing. I'm pretty sure you can't do that.

• 22:00Mark Gagnon?

  Nah.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Brandishing?

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Garnishing is gonna.

• 22:04Speaker 00

  You would think about.

• 22:05Mark Gagnon?

  I know, yeah.

• 22:06Speaker 00

  You would, you would get hungry when that talk comes out.

• 22:09Mark Gagnon?

  I know, open up, open up.

• 22:10Speaker 00

  I got you, son.

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Salt man, dude.

• 22:15Speaker 00

  Anyway, you were gonna ask.

• 22:16Speaker 01

  So in, when he talks to Cyclops.

• 22:18Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  He says, oh, it's, my name's nobody.

• 22:20Speaker 00

  He doesn't say it in the movie.

• 22:21Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 22:21Speaker 01

  Really? That's like the best part. I love that. It's so clever.

• 22:24Speaker 00

  There are versions, so one of the things about Odysseus is he was the smartest motherfucker.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:28Speaker 00

  Right? So like, everything he did is clever and he found ways to like outsmart the opponents. He's not like brute strength, like, you know, like an Achilles is, or something like that. Um, and his cleverness, I think there's, is like his downfall in a way. Because he thinks he's so clever that he can outsmart the gods.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 22:47Speaker 00

  And he has to learn that lesson that no, you cannot.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Because my understanding from the original, he's talking to Cyclops, he's like, the Cyclops is trying to get him and all his boys. He says, I'm nobody. The Cyclops yells out, nobody's hurting me. And then all the other Cyclopses are like, oh, nobody's hurting you. Sounds like you're going crazy.

• 23:02Speaker 00

  They said, who hurt you? He goes, uh, he goes, nobody.

• 23:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:05Speaker 00

  So they're like, oh, I guess nobody.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  And then they say, pray to the gods, you seem like you're sick.

• 23:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 23:09Speaker 01

  And then he leaves, he gets on the boat, and he goes, actually, I'm not nobody, I'm actually Odysseus, son of this guy, ruler of this kingdom.

• 23:17Speaker 00

  Conqueror of cities.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then that's how the Cyclops knows, and then the Cyclops tells his daddy.

• 23:22Speaker 00

  Poseidon.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Who's Poseidon? And then he fucks up the sails and the seas and.

• 23:26Speaker 00

  Poseidon curses him, and that's why he has to go everywhere.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  And all that's in the movie.

• 23:29Speaker 00

  But that, no, that's not. That's the best.

• 23:32Mark Gagnon?

  That's the shooting him in the ass.

• 23:33Speaker 01

  It also makes more sense because he doesn't take the long way home because he's being a dick. He's taking the long way home because the gods are cursing him.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  Yes, well, yes, 100%. Um, and in the movie, he takes, he doesn't take the long way, he takes a different way because he's like, I'm done being with Agamemnon. Like, I think he never wanted to go to war in the first place.

• 23:50Mark Gagnon?

  But they don't explain why he would do that. If you're trying to get home to your, your wife and this is the trade route to go home, it doesn't explain why you would choose to take the long way and I didn't like.

• 24:01Speaker 00

  My, my understanding of the explanation, and I think he learned this when he's kidnapped with Calypso, is that

• 24:10Speaker 00

  he knew what he did. So let's, let's go back to this like Trojan horse thing. When we learned about the, I think it's Fagels' version of the Odyssey. I think that's like the most common one that we all do. There's another version, Rachel Wilson, I think her name is, right? And I, some say that like Nolan is working off her adaptation, which is like maybe a little bit more soft. You know, the internet is, is more feminized or whatever, it doesn't matter. Like, he basically has more trauma based on what happened and feels worse about what happened in Troy. Versus Fagel's interpretation is like, he's like, I'm the boy. Did you see what I did? So when we read the Odyssey, we thought the horse was this genius feat in war. That's how I always interpreted what a Trojan horse.

• 24:55Speaker 01

  They outsmarted the enemy.

• 24:56Speaker 00

  We outsmarted the enemy. Nolan's interpretation is you broke Zeus's law. You offered up the horse as a gift.

• 25:07Speaker 01

  Hmm, hospitality.

• 25:09Speaker 00

  Hospitality and then took advantage of that. And then in the movie, while there, they cut Athena's head off.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 25:18Speaker 00

  And there's a statue of Athena. And when you see, um, Tom Holland's wife, what's her name? Euphoria.

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Zendaya?

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Zendaya, throughout the movie, she's representative, I think, of like a young priestess. Like a young girl that lived in Troy that was, you know, a part of the church of Athena or whatever it was.

• 25:40Mark Gagnon?

  Another thing I didn't like. I think she's supposed to be Athena. She's supposed to be Athena.

• 25:44Speaker 00

  Well, well, but she is, her, her look is supposed to represent

• 25:49Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, gotcha.

• 25:49Speaker 00

  this young girl

• 25:50Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 00

  that gets beheaded or whatever there. And it's a reminder to, to Damon or Odysseus, what he did.

• 26:00Speaker 00

  This act, breaking Zeus's law. What, what, what he didn't, he has to deal with that every single second.

• 26:06Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 26:07Speaker 00

  That he sees her.

• 26:08Mark Gagnon?

  And that was another thing I didn't like. I feel like they just wanted to jam pack this shit full of A-list. Zendaya added nothing to the story. This is the first time I've ever seen her acting where it's like.

• 26:24Mark Gagnon?

  You didn't do anything like she usually blows me away. She usually steals scenes. She's like an actress. I feel like they didn't give her anything to do.

• 26:31Speaker 00

  That's interesting.

• 26:32Mark Gagnon?

  I'm just gonna sit here and remind you of guilt. But really not say anything that important, anything monumental. Can you remember a single line she said?

• 26:42Speaker 00

  No, but I do the scene where she's on the cross. Where they're gonna cut her head off and then they juxtapose it with like slicing the head of the statue off. I thought was acted like beautifully. I mean, she's also ethereal, like just the way that she looks. She, she has like this like heavenly look to her. So maybe there's part of that.

• 27:01Mark Gagnon?

  But it's like the whole time you're thinking, oh, she's just reminding him of one of the people they killed in Troy. But the whole time she's supposed to be Athena.

• 27:09Speaker 00

  She doesn't have the death.

• 27:10Mark Gagnon?

  Make that.

• 27:11Speaker 00

  She doesn't have the death of, of Damon's character or Anne Hathaway, who's the fucking goat. Anne Hathaway might be the fucking goat.

• 27:17Speaker 01

  She's the best dude.

• 27:19Mark Gagnon?

  She killed it. Damon killed it.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  Damon.

• 27:23Mark Gagnon?

  Another thing I didn't like, they made Tom a pussy, bro. How you train fighting all like all this training and then the two times you fighting, you're getting your shit pushed it.

• 27:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  That's Telemachus.

• 27:36Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Yeah. Like both times he was fighting and he was looking like a pussy, like he couldn't do nothing.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Twenty.

• 27:42Mark Gagnon?

  But you've been trained your whole life. You should be nice.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  No, that's what I'm saying. Like by that time he's 20. It's not like he's a little boy.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's a prime.

• 27:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, he's, he's at least 21 or whatever. If, if she was pregnant right before he left.

• 27:54Mark Gagnon?

  So I like that.

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 27:56Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean, yeah, I got it. I got it. Like.

• 27:58Mark Gagnon?

  Another thing I didn't like, Helen's supposed to be the most beautiful person who started wars and all this type of stuff. No, no, no, no, no. I, I like the choice that they scarred her face because it's like, oh, look, even everybody was vying for this person. Who started wars and look at the result of wars and all that shit. But then you give her an identical twin sister. It takes away from her beauty. Why the fuck we're all fighting over this one? When you got an identical baddie.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  I didn't know this.

• 28:29Mark Gagnon?

  They gave her an identical twin sister. You take away from her beauty.

• 28:32Speaker 00

  In Greece, they they did that in like the Greek version of it?

• 28:36Speaker 01

  I don't know. I don't think it's a twin.

• 28:37Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 28:38Speaker 03

  He doesn't get scarred.

• 28:38Speaker 01

  I never read that.

• 28:39Speaker 00

  No, no, hold on. Let's back up.

• 28:40Mark Gagnon?

  She has sisters, but not an identical.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Can can we just look? You're sure that?

• 28:44Mark Gagnon?

  I'm a hundred percent. I looked this up. That's stupid.

• 28:48Speaker 00

  I mean, I think what happens is he he had reached the limit of black people. He was.

• 28:52Mark Gagnon?

  Still temp the tent. Still temp the tent.

• 28:54Speaker 03

  She had one sister.

• 28:55Speaker 00

  Is but was he a twin sister?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  Nothing here says twin yet.

• 28:59Mark Gagnon?

  Come on.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  No, her sister was climenstra, and they were not usually described as twins.

• 29:03Speaker 00

  Sounds like a venereal.

• 29:06Speaker 01

  She did have brothers that were twins, Castor and Pollux. And in some myths, Leta laid two eggs containing Helen, Climestra, Castor, Pollux, but the exact sibling pairings.

• 29:14Mark Gagnon?

  I'm chipping away at it.

• 29:15Speaker 00

  No, no, I think I think.

• 29:17Mark Gagnon?

  Chippin'.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  I no, no, no. I saw that and I was like, identical twin sister is weird because like, why are we fighting over this girl? The way that the way that Nolan would justify it is. I think Damon says it like this wasn't a war over Helen. This is a war over shipping routes. And they needed to break the stronghold. Like Loki, I was like, is this a metaphor for the Strait of War moves? Like, what is this? That's ridiculous future. But remember, he said that Agamemnon wants to break the stranglehold that Troy has over the shipping routes.

• 29:47Mark Gagnon?

  I get it. But the way the way the story has been told for ages is.

• 29:51Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 29:52Mark Gagnon?

  They're fighting over this.

• 29:53Speaker 00

  A hundred percent. But maybe he can justify that. Maybe that was done on purpose to justify like, it wasn't made over a pretty chick. No one right would fucking go to war over a pretty chick. To me, that's even dumber. Like, there's no girl so beautiful, you gotta go over war. There's plenty of beautiful women everywhere. But if this kingdom had control of the shipping routes, we need a justification to go over there for fucking 10 years straight and bang out.

• 30:15Mark Gagnon?

  I get it. But then if that's gonna be the reason to do it, then her face doesn't need to be scarred.

• 30:21Speaker 00

  I think that the scarring, how I would interpret is how you did, which is beautiful. Which is like, all beautiful things age and wither, or get destroyed. And then what was it worth in the first place? Like, look what hubris does. Look what pride does. Look what ego does.

• 30:36Speaker 01

  My understanding is in the original, Paris takes Helen from Menelaus. And that's what causes it. It's not that she's, it is that she's so beautiful.

• 30:45Speaker 00

  You don't even take her, bro. Well, she wanted to be taken.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  That's the thing, it's disputed in the versions. Some versions say she was kidnapped, some versions say she went willingly, but ultimately it's ego.

• 30:52Speaker 00

  Can't kidnap the willing, bro. Let's keep it a buck. She was tight to be where they were, John Bernthal, damn. She was tight, she didn't want it. She wanted to be Orlando Bloom.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  She was with Orlando Bloom, Detroit.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  I get it, I get it.

• 31:05Speaker 00

  You get it?

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, I get it.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  No disrespect to John, great actor.

• 31:09Speaker 01

  But Orlando Bloom?

• 31:10Speaker 00

  Ah, damn.

• 31:13Speaker 01

  But it's like, it's ego. It's like Bowser's castle shit. You know what I mean?

• 31:17Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Like, you stole the princess, now I gotta get her back.

• 31:19Speaker 00

  And that is, you know, the death of man.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 00

  It's tied to ego.

• 31:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:24Speaker 00

  You know, and I think like, I guess in a lot of ways, there is the story there. It's like how you can be humbled. But I like Nolan's version better. I like the idea of like, yes, Miles.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  There are some versions that say she was born from the same egg and use the word twin. But not a ton, it's not very like.

• 31:40Speaker 00

  So he grabbed a version and went with that. But even then, it lends itself more to Alex's thing, which is like, you don't gotta fight a war, just take your brother's girl. Be like, yo, they took mine.

• 31:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. Swam around.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  But actually not, Agamemnon's,

• 31:54Speaker 00

  Agamemnon also had the equally hottest girl in the world. So his brother, his brother would, would have to lose his girl and he'd be like, hey, man, it sucks, bro. Yeah, that's what it is. I know what you're missing, literally, yeah.

• 32:07Mark Gagnon?

  I did like how they depicted Agamemnon, though. Like, he looked like a badass.

• 32:12Speaker 00

  Badass.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  Do they show, do they show the land of the dead when he sees his mom?

• 32:16Speaker 00

  No.

• 32:17Speaker 01

  No. This is fire from the original. His parents aren't in it all. Really? No. So in the original, he goes to the land of the dead. Yeah. He sees Achilles. Yeah. The greatest warrior to ever live. And Achilles is standing there in the land of the dead and says a crazy line. He goes, I would rather be a farmhand working in someone else's fields instead of being the king over all the dead. And so it's just a fire line. We were like, yeah, like all this war and all this fighting, is it really worth it? What is it worth? And then he sees his mom. And this is the most devastating part. He goes to embrace her. And she falls through his arms three times and says that she died waiting for him to return. Damn. Oof. And when you have that in the original, you're all of a sudden like, oh, his motivation ramps up. He's holding his own mother who died waiting for him. And now he's like, I gotta go back. They should have put that in. Right?

• 33:02Speaker 01

  Like, how beautiful is that? They should have put that in.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  To this. Talking about like parents and lineage. Uh, Agamemnon's dad is.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  I don't know his father.

• 33:14Speaker 00

  Atreus.

• 33:15Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:18Speaker 00

  Timothy Chalamet. And Dune is House Atreides.

• 33:24Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:25Speaker 00

  Which is the direct lineage of Agamemnon.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  Ah, oh shit. That's cool. That's multiverse. Yeah. That's sick.

• 33:32Speaker 00

  I mean, it's happening thousands and thousands and thousands of years in the future. But the idea is you are descendant of a lineage of kings. I thought that was kind of cool. And that's also the influence of the Odyssey on every story.

• 33:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:44Speaker 00

  I mean, the coolest thing about like, especially the oral traditions that maintain, and the Bible is definitely one of these. It's like, an oral tradition is only maintained in the same way that like a street joke is only maintained over thousands of years.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:57Speaker 00

  If it's great and relatable. And this story is the simplest, most relatable story in the world. A guy is trying to get back to his wife before other guys fuck her.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:09Speaker 00

  Like, at its core.

• 34:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 34:11Speaker 00

  It's like, it's before they fuck her and kill his son.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 34:16Speaker 00

  That at its simplest here, like I relate to it immediately and I want that guy to get back. I immediately want that guy to get back. Why was he away? Because he had to fight a war he didn't want to fight?

• 34:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  I want to get back even more.

• 34:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:29Speaker 00

  Like, and it really made me think of any story. Any story. How can you, what is the simplest version of what is happening here? And like, how do you mythologize? And how do you mythologize that? Even things that are happening in our reality without magical beasts. Like, what is the simplest version of it? You know, like. I know, like, I always heard this about like Transformers. Like, the simplest understanding of Transformers is just like, a boy gets his first car.

• 35:01Speaker 01

  Fire.

• 35:01Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? And like, the excitement, the connectivity.

• 35:04Speaker 01

  The freedom.

• 35:05Speaker 00

  Freedom. Right? Like, okay, I can get on board with that. And then you make the magic around it. Like, even, it made me think of that Tom Hanks movie, Big. You ever heard of that movie? Where he goes into the gypsy thing and becomes an adult? And like, I don't know if this is it, but like, as I reflect back on it. Is it like? Is it like?

• 35:27Speaker 00

  Youth is beautiful and I miss it.

• 35:31Speaker 00

  And it isn't, it isn't until you are placed into the responsibility of an adult that you get to go, man, we really had it fucking good.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:39Speaker 00

  And what we would do to go back.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:41Speaker 00

  You know?

• 35:42Speaker 01

  Wasting on the young.

• 35:43Speaker 00

  Youth wise, wasting on the young. Yeah, yeah. So like, it's just such a simple idea. And then you build in all this like magic around it.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that makes it relatable to like the present day. But the underlying thread is a human feeling.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  And the only stories that will persist for thousands and thousands of years are that.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:02Speaker 00

  That's the only, I stand by that. It's like, and it made me think of things that we're working on and like, projects that we've written. And I'm like, what is the mythology of this? Like, if I could make this a Greek myth, what would it be? And if I can't explain it, we gotta change it.

• 36:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:16Speaker 00

  Like, how do we simplify it? And how do we simplify it in a way where it's like, for centuries, people could feel that exact impact? And I think oftentimes like the best joke or the best screenplay, whatever it's taking something that is very obvious and doing the best spin on it.

• 36:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:31Speaker 00

  The best joke is not like the most out there arbitrary absurd thing. The best joke is a relationship joke.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:38Mark Gagnon?

  Most relatable stuff.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  It's the most fundamental thing done in a new way.

• 36:41Speaker 00

  It's the most fundamental thing done in a way that you've never seen before. You're like, how the fuck did I not point that out?

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think that goes across everything, like any type of art design, like think about like Virgil's shoes. Right. It's like, okay, this is a relatable thing. I've seen a Jordan, but he's done it in a way I've never seen.

• 36:56Speaker 00

  Yeah. Whereas like the super abstract weird thing, you're like, okay, that might be cool for a little. It might trend for a little.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  It's pushing too far.

• 37:04Speaker 00

  But we're never going to remember it.

• 37:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:06Speaker 00

  We'll wear the fucking Jordan ones or Air Force ones will go in and out of popularity for our entire lifetime. A version of it will exist for our kids, their kids, like.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 37:18Speaker 00

  So, so how do you simplify everything? That's, that's me. And literally I went back to like projects that we're working on and I'm, I'm talking to guys and I'm like, what is the mythology of it?

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, even like the Bible, if you look at it just purely as fictional mythos, it's like a perfect person sacrifices the most valuable thing, his life for people that don't deserve it.

• 37:36Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  It's like the most fundamental, like the most beautiful thing you could imagine a human being doing.

• 37:41Speaker 00

  And like, and I would be honest, I think there's even like a more simple version of it, like he doesn't have to be the most perfect person. It's just like sacrificing yourself for someone else is just, and then what is the heightened version of that is the most perfect person sacrificed himself for the most imperfect people.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then to add to it, a father gives up his child to die for those people that don't deserve it.

• 38:09Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? So now you just build.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. The Bible's a trolley problem.

• 38:14Speaker 00

  At his core, what irony. Alex O'Connor was as obsessed with philosophy and trolley problems. And has, you know, used a lot of his professional career to debunk, you know, the Bible. Yet the Bible is the greatest trolley problem that's ever existed.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  There's actually a beautiful short film, if you're interested, you're 100% gonna cry. It's like 20 minutes. But it's a train conductor, that's literally the early, like a train bridge operator. And his little son is playing, he's like six years old, playing near the bridge. And the train's not supposed to come, and the train is full of a bunch of people doing drugs and like sex addicts and like just like heathens. And like they paint them in like a very poor light. And then the train takes the wrong diversion and is going towards the track that his bridge is on. And the bridge is up, and his son is underneath the bridge. And now he's standing there like, what do I do? Do I lower the bridge and kill my son to save all these people on the train? Or do I leave it up, save my son's life and let the people on the train die? And they're not even supposed to be there in the first place. And it's just like a beautiful metaphor.

• 39:08Speaker 00

  And uh. Save my son, not even a question?

• 39:11Speaker 01

  Well, you should watch it, cause it's pretty crazy. I won't spoil it.

• 39:13Speaker 00

  My fucking question.

• 39:17Speaker 00

  They're not supposed to be there?

• 39:19Speaker 01

  No. Train takes the wrong, uh, the wrong switch.

• 39:23Speaker 00

  Oh, the train took the wrong, like the train is not supposed to be there.

• 39:26Speaker 01

  It was supposed to go this way towards a road. Instead, it goes this way towards the mountains where the bridge is up.

• 39:30Speaker 00

  Oh, so it's the train and the conductor did that? It was his fault?

• 39:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:35Speaker 00

  So it was the conductor's fault?

• 39:35Speaker 01

  It was someone else's fault, not the guy controlling the bridge.

• 39:38Speaker 00

  Oh my God. Okay, now it's getting a little bit more. I thought that they were just like vagabonds in the middle of the track.

• 39:42Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 39:43Speaker 00

  Oh God.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  These are people on a train.

• 39:45Speaker 00

  They're innocent too.

• 39:46Speaker 01

  Crazy. But I have a question about the other stuff that's in it.

• 39:49Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:49Speaker 01

  The sirens.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  How are they depicted?

• 39:52Speaker 00

  Uh, you, you see them in the distance.

• 39:56Mark Gagnon?

  In distance. Aren't they supposed to be a bunch of baddies?

• 40:00Speaker 00

  Yes, but there's like different interpretations. I've seen like birds with like a human head.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  That's like the OG depiction, which is hilarious. That they're birds with human heads.

• 40:08Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 40:09Speaker 01

  It's so funny.

• 40:09Mark Gagnon?

  OG mermaids.

• 40:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then they're later depicted as mermaids. But the interesting thing that I didn't realize from the original is that he's not seduced by their beauty.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  It's the sound.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Not seduced by the sound.

• 40:19Speaker 00

  Oh, is it?

• 40:20Speaker 01

  They offer him truth. They say to him through song, we'll tell you everything about what happened to Troy. We'll tell you all the secrets of the universe. We'll tell you everything if you just come to us. And so he's ultimately seduced in the story by truth. It's almost like Garden of Eden type shit.

• 40:37Speaker 00

  Well, that's a better explanation for why he, he himself doesn't put the beeswax in his ears. Because he wants to hear the truth.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  And so they offer him all the knowledge that's ever to be had. And he's like, oh, I want to go. And then you see bodies of people piled up. Other humans that did it, but he's so seduced by it. He's like, I want to go despite all the bodies. Like he's almost like in this illusion, not thinking about his imminent death.

• 41:02Mark Gagnon?

  The more I'm hearing this version, I'm even more upset that Nolan kept this stuff out of it.

• 41:06Speaker 00

  I, I, I agree because it just did seem like selfishness. Why he did it, but like.

• 41:11Speaker 01

  There's another funny thing with Calypso.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  Oh, wait, tell, before we go to Calypso, I wanted to just go to this, that one thing about. Cause what he said, the dialogue in that moment, they're like, what was the song of the sirens like? His, uh, his like first mate on the ship, who's going to be playing a Greek soldier and didn't do a single push up for six months of preparation.

• 41:33Mark Gagnon?

  You've got some nerve.

• 41:34Speaker 00

  Anne Hathaway learned how to sew a fucking thing. Like she, Mad Damon learned how to shoot a bow and arrow. The Indian guy couldn't do a curl. He knew he was going to be in the movie. He wasn't like a late addition.

• 41:48Mark Gagnon?

  You got Street Fighter coming up?

• 41:50Speaker 00

  I asked him if I, I asked him if I should get buff and they said, you're a comedian. He's a Greek soldier.

• 41:56Mark Gagnon?

  Cause he knew it.

• 42:01Speaker 00

  So the guy goes, what was the song of the sirens like? And Odysseus goes, all the things you wanted to be, and then all the things you wished you never wished for. It was a delicious itch you want to scratch, but you find it under the skin and can't reach it. So the delicious itch becomes unbearable. I told you what you want is what you, it told you what you most want is what you most can't have. And that what you most can't have is what you already had and lost. It was a song of all the promises I failed to keep. And it told me, I don't really want to go home.

• 42:42Speaker 00

  And the same song you hear at the sirens is the one you hear when he sees his wife.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  Whoa. What does that mean?

• 42:53Speaker 00

  Like he didn't want to go back? No, it is like this is the thing I desire the most. Ah, I see. This is the thing that I need. This is the thing that I want. Like a partial truth, partial lie from the sirens. So I was like messing with his head. He learns that like I didn't actually want to go home because I didn't want to see the decay of the society that I worked so hard to build up. And it was my fault and I destroyed. Right. The destruction that I put. And I thought that was a really great.

• 43:21Speaker 00

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• 44:49Speaker 00

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• 45:49Speaker 01

  The thing with Calypso.

• 45:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 01

  He's on the island for a while.

• 45:52Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:52Speaker 01

  There's a hilarious line. One, there's a few. It says that she no longer pleased him.

• 45:56Speaker 00

  Smash the shit out of Calypso in the real version. This is why it's like he's way more likeable now. You want him to be like a faithful man.

• 46:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 46:04Speaker 00

  But he was fucking the dog shit out of Calypso for years, got tired of the pussy, and then went home.

• 46:09Mark Gagnon?

  That makes way more sense.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  It says, "She no longer pleased him."

• 46:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:14Speaker 01

  Which means that at one point, she was pleasing him.

• 46:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, a lot, a lot.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  And then there's a hilarious line where she goes, "Why, don't leave. Why are you gonna leave?" And he goes, "I gotta go. Yeah, I got shit to do." And she goes, "I'll make you immortal." So gives him a deal that if he stays, he'll basically become a god. And then he has a line and says, "I know my wife Penelope doesn't stand up to the beauty of Calypso."

• 46:36Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, shit, that's wild.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  "But I must go back anyway. It was my honor to go back."

• 46:41Speaker 00

  First of all, top-tier gaslighting by real Odysseus.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  The fact that he just threw that in there.

• 46:47Speaker 00

  No, but let me, let me ask you this question. I mean, this is gonna be a little trickier for you to answer because you are like the real Odysseus in there like. No, you're not real Odysseus.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  I'm the gay Nolan Odysseus.

• 46:57Speaker 00

  You're Nolan Odysseus. You're committed to your wife no matter what.

• 47:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm the fake Odysseus.

• 47:01Speaker 00

  But this is something that's gonna be more relatable to Al and definitely to Miles.

• 47:06Speaker 01

  To you, nigga.

• 47:07Speaker 00

  Okay, and to me.

• 47:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, fuck outta here.

• 47:10Speaker 00

  And to me. Check it, check it, check it. Imagine, imagine you're with a girl, okay? That you are locked on an island with her, that you got tired of.

• 47:20Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:21Speaker 00

  And then she offered you to live forever.

• 47:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 47:27Speaker 00

  Kill me.

• 47:30Speaker 00

  Being with a girl you don't wanna be with, you already wanna die.

• 47:32Mark Gagnon?

  Forever?

• 47:33Speaker 00

  And then she's like, ah, you can live forever. He, she, bitch, kill me now if I can't go. It's got nothing to do with Penelope. I don't wanna be around you anymore. The only saving grace I have is I could die one day. You about to take that away from me? Get me off this fucking island.

• 47:47Mark Gagnon?

  We've been on the same boat. When he said that, I was like, who the fuck wants that?

• 47:50Speaker 00

  That's torture, bro. Once a dude's brain switches, like he had a good six and a half years with Calypso. He was like, this is lit. She, she doing shit my wife would never do.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Bounce on a crazy star.

• 48:00Speaker 00

  Bounce on a crazy star.

• 48:01Mark Gagnon?

  That was a long honeymoon phase right there.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  I mean, like so many different things.

• 48:05Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 48:05Speaker 00

  And then he got tired of it. He's like, alright, I'm good. I'm done. The chat is garbage. Like, we don't have anything to do. I'm bored. Then she's like, I'll just make you live forever. And he's like, this forever? Put me back in the horse. Get me the fuck out of here.

• 48:20Mark Gagnon?

  In your version, did he know about, did he remember his wife and kid the whole time he was with Penelope? Or whatever, Calypso, I'm sorry?

• 48:27Speaker 03

  I think so, yeah.

• 48:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, cuz he wasn't on the Lotus.

• 48:29Mark Gagnon?

  He was even way more of a piece of shit.

• 48:32Speaker 03

  It's how he can survive, bro. It's the only way to survive.

• 48:34Speaker 00

  Yo, that's great. Like, how you know?

• 48:38Mark Gagnon?

  Your wife and kid waiting for you back home?

• 48:39Speaker 00

  The whole rest of the army.

• 48:40Mark Gagnon?

  Let's do another year. Let's run it.

• 48:42Speaker 00

  The whole rest of the army went home. And he was like, yo, we gonna go check out this bar over in, in Hoboken real quick before we go back. He wasn't ready to go home.

• 48:54Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, Nolan's interpretation of this shit is-

• 48:56Speaker 03

  I think he's still on the boat the whole time. It takes him seven years to build a boat in the OG.

• 48:59Speaker 01

  Is that what it is?

• 49:00Speaker 03

  And also Hermes-

• 49:02Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, that makes sense. He was grabbing the pieces of it.

• 49:04Speaker 00

  He doesn't even go home after Calypso. He goes back to Cersei.

• 49:07Speaker 03

  But in the OG, Zeus goes, yo, you gotta go get our boy, sends Hermes down there. Hermes goes, yo, you guys can't be doing this.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 03

  He gets let free.

• 49:16Speaker 00

  Also, in the original, one time when he went to Cersei, the pig lady, he smashes her for a year. And then his boys go, yo, it's time. Like, we got, we're not pigs no more. We gotta go.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  Bang on the door.

• 49:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, like, please, like, can we go home? We got wives too. He's like, yo, stop hating, bro. Like, just cuz I'm getting sucked.

• 49:33Speaker 01

  Quiet, piggy.

• 49:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, go on.

• 49:36Mark Gagnon?

  It's super ambitious, cuz it's like, there's no way you fit all the stories in a movie's time.

• 49:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:43Mark Gagnon?

  And so you have to pick and choose what parts you keep in or whatever. And it's like, you have to change a story in order to even make it cohesive. Cause I do feel, even though it was long, it did feel a little rushed. I'm like, every time we go back to Matt Damon, there's another fucking big situation you going through.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  It's a 24 book story.

• 50:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 00

  This is, this is the, I forget who said this. I want to give credit to them. I don't know if it was, uh, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, or, uh, the Rick and Morty guy.

• 50:11Speaker 01

  I think it's Trey Parker. I know what you're gonna say.

• 50:13Speaker 00

  Right. It's like, one of the, the tricks to sell it, telling a story.

• 50:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 00

  It's not, and then, it's therefore. It's something I've always thought about after seeing that. Like even when I was doing life, it's like, nothing should be like, and we went here and then we did that and then we did that.

• 50:30Mark Gagnon?

  No.

• 50:31Speaker 00

  This thing should force the next thing to happen.

• 50:35Mark Gagnon?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:36Speaker 00

  So, there, and this is, I think there's a little bit in the Odyssey that feels a little bit, and then it's like, we got the Cyclops, and then we got the, and then we got the whatever.

• 50:47Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 50:48Speaker 00

  Whereas, when a story is really moving, there's no in then.

• 50:52Mark Gagnon?

  Hmm.

• 50:53Speaker 00

  The Cyclops is causing, is forcing you into the next thing.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Poseidon fucks up the sails and the wind takes him somewhere else.

• 51:01Mark Gagnon?

  That sounds like the greatest movie of all time you're describing.

• 51:06Mark Gagnon?

  I'm just saying, I'm just saying.

• 51:09Speaker 00

  But this is my, my, my, my feeling about it when I was watching it and I knew going into it, cause I remember reading it going, alright, alright, alright. And then you get to the last one, he gets home.

• 51:19Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 51:19Speaker 00

  And I'm like, alright, this is the greatest filmmaking that I've ever experienced in my entire life, where literally the sounds of the movie, make me want to get out of my fucking seat.

• 51:29Speaker 01

  Now, can I ask you about when he goes home?

• 51:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  There's something in the original, from Homer, he goes there, kills everyone.

• 51:36Speaker 00

  Homer.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, Homer, whoever Homer is, kills everyone.

• 51:39Speaker 00

  Odysseus is a dick. What he's gonna say, I just want to let you know, he's a dick. A modern society is not ready for Odysseus.

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:46Speaker 00

  They're ready for the new, they're ready for Nolan's Odysseus, no.

• 51:50Speaker 01

  Odysseus, his son, Imaeus, another shepherd, they kill all the people, right?

• 51:54Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  And then he calls all the slave women that are working on the property. And says, hey, clean up all the bodies, wipe off all the blood. And then he asks his boy, I think it's Amayus, he says, or maybe it's one of the other, other women. He says, who were those slave women that slept with the suitors?

• 52:11Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  Hang them up too.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  He takes all them, hangs them, kills them in front of everyone and goes, these women dishonored me, they dishonored my kingdom, they slept with the suitors in my home.

• 52:22Speaker 00

  But no one.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Takes them all out.

• 52:23Speaker 00

  No one did that.

• 52:24Mark Gagnon?

  He did, he did.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  He did.

• 52:25Speaker 00

  He did that with the Mia Gah.

• 52:27Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 52:27Speaker 00

  So just imagine there was a bunch of Mia Gah.

• 52:29Mark Gagnon?

  Got it. Okay.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  So he does include that.

• 52:31Speaker 00

  There's a Mia Gah character that was fucking Robert Pattinson. Also in the real version, Robert Pattinson and a few others getting the guts of Penelope. Penelope was not faithful either.

• 52:43Speaker 01

  Is that true?

• 52:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:44Speaker 01

  Is that true?

• 52:45Speaker 00

  Look that up.

• 52:46Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I don't know about that.

• 52:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, look that up.

• 52:48Mark Gagnon?

  That kills the movie for me then.

• 52:50Speaker 00

  Cause it's not about fucking, it's about ascending to the throne.

• 52:56Mark Gagnon?

  I hear you, but come on, like, tell the real.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  All right, I'm asking Jipper right now.

• 53:02Mark Gagnon?

  He made this shit fucking rated G.

• 53:05Speaker 00

  Well, what he did is he made it a love story because that's what's going to connect to our civilization. We are not ready to accept that Odysseus got back home after all that time, immediately left so he could go rob a bunch of other towns so he could refill his coffers and then immediately left again because he realized, I'm bored at home.

• 53:26Mark Gagnon?

  You got it.

• 53:26Speaker 00

  Tell me.

• 53:27Speaker 01

  I have it here, correct me if I'm wrong, Miles, in Homer's original Odyssey, Penelope is faithful to Odysseus. She does not sleep with any of the suitors or choose a new husband while he's away.

• 53:34Mark Gagnon?

  Why you try to poke?

• 53:35Speaker 00

  Make on Penelope, bruh.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  But there were later non-Homeric traditions claiming Penelope was unfaithful or had a child with Hermes or one of the suitors.

• 53:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yup.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  And a different record, a local story in which Odysseus expelled her for encouraging the suitors, but that's not the version in.

• 53:48Mark Gagnon?

  Wait, Hermes, Hermes the god?

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, he's a little messenger.

• 53:51Mark Gagnon?

  That don't count.

• 53:52Speaker 01

  But that's a, that's a later version. That's a later version.

• 53:55Mark Gagnon?

  Like a fire prayer. You don't want no god dick, bruh. Come on. He's a god.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  But I think that's a version told by like a different bard in a different festival that's like a red pill guy. He's like nah fuck Penelope.

• 54:09Speaker 00

  He was riffing a little bit.

• 54:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. He was on stream just letting it fly. So I don't think that's the OG.

• 54:13Mark Gagnon?

  And so you're Mr. Prisoner of the Moment. We all know this. That's why you think it's the greatest movie of all time. When you really put this up against all Nolan's films, there's no way you say this is the best one. You can't say this is better than Dark Knight. You can't say this is better than Inception. You can't say this is like, uh, fuck, what's the one in space?

• 54:34Speaker 00

  Nah, Interstellar. Interstellar is unbelievable.

• 54:36Mark Gagnon?

  Come on, son. You're gonna say it's better than those three right there?

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Interstellar is low key the Odyssey.

• 54:41Speaker 00

  They're all low key.

• 54:42Mark Gagnon?

  I know they are, yeah, I got it.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  And that's, this is, can I, can I just, I get what you're saying?

• 54:51Speaker 00

  The reason why I put so much credence on the Odyssey is be-

• 54:54Mark Gagnon?

  Just seen it.

• 54:55Speaker 00

  No. Well, yeah. I am prisoner of the moment, a hundred percent. But all those other movies are the Odyssey.

• 55:06Mark Gagnon?

  So he just redid his old shit?

• 55:09Speaker 00

  No, but like-

• 55:09Mark Gagnon?

  So give the credit to the old shit?

• 55:10Speaker 00

  No, to me, to me, it's like give the credit to the source. Like, if you're doing the Odyssey with all the other movies, every movie is the Odyssey.

• 55:18Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 55:19Speaker 00

  Like, everything is the Odyssey. And there's like a hot take that's kind of going around where it's like, uh, what was the nuclear bomb movie?

• 55:26Speaker 01

  Oppenheimer?

• 55:26Speaker 00

  Oppenheimer. And people are like, Oppenheimer is the same kind of, uh, does this take off where Oppenheimer is, or this is inspired by Oppenheimer? It's like, no, everything is, everything is the Odyssey. And that's why it's so prolific. There's really like five stories. Like, most movies are just ripping off a version of Shakespeare, a version of the Bible. Like, Neo is the Jesus story, like, in The Matrix, like, so you get to see the guy who was clearly inspired by the Odyssey and use that as like a reference point for all his other movies, make the OG.

• 55:57Mark Gagnon?

  I get that.

• 55:58Speaker 00

  So there's a part of me, it's like, I'm watching Batman, but I'm really watching the Odyssey. Now I get to see the movie that he really wants to make. And that's why, and along with my recency bias, I just put it that way.

• 56:12Speaker 01

  One thing, I saw a clip of Odysseus going back as the old man. He just has a hood on. Like, how do they not know?

• 56:21Speaker 03

  Long white beard.

• 56:22Speaker 00

  Oh, he got his beard is long and white. Also, he's been dead. Like, if you're dead for 20 years, you're not even thinking about it. You gotta understand how long 20 years is, bro. 20 years, you're dead.

• 56:33Mark Gagnon?

  They ain't really age him that much. They wanted, they wanted to keep him looking good.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  He gotta be handsome.

• 56:39Speaker 01

  They had Good Will Hunting pull up at the house.

• 56:41Mark Gagnon?

  He's ripped. I know, he's ripped. He's a little too ripped.

• 56:44Speaker 00

  So, the day before Matt went to go film The Odyssey, he filmed our promo for the life special.

• 56:51Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, wow.

• 56:52Speaker 00

  So, and, and, and I remember seeing him, I was like, damn, you look fucking lean. He goes, yeah, I gotta go tomorrow to go film. I was like, what you filming? He goes, uh, The Odyssey. I was like, oh shit, why are you here?

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Anyway, in this scene when we're eating at the diner,

• 57:09Speaker 00

  Matt only eats the bacon.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  Cause he hadn't had a carb in like six months.

• 57:16Mark Gagnon?

  I know that.

• 57:18Speaker 00

  He only eats, he only eats the bacon and, and, but you have to understand, this guy had a carb in six months and I just have a plate of potatoes and bread sitting in front of him. About to ruin fucking Homer's Odyssey.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  That's how you know he's a, a real actor.

• 57:33Mark Gagnon?

  You know he's in there. He got on that crazy stack before this shit.

• 57:36Speaker 00

  Oh, he has.

• 57:38Mark Gagnon?

  That motherfucker was looking like 20.

• 57:40Speaker 00

  He's, cause he, in real life, he's like, what, 50 something years old?

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 57:43Mark Gagnon?

  What?

• 57:44Speaker 00

  And he was just.

• 57:45Mark Gagnon?

  Shredded, yeah.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Now, there's an alternate ending of the OG Odyssey.

• 57:49Speaker 00

  Hit me.

• 57:49Speaker 01

  The alternate ending, so most people consider the source where he sees Penelope, olive tree, bed, I made the bed, you're my husband, the end, right?

• 57:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  There's other versions that some people still attribute as like credible, where they say all the families of the suitors.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  They come knocking on the kingdom and they're like, yo, you killed our boys.

• 58:08Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 58:09Speaker 01

  These are supposed to be the heirs of our kingdom.

• 58:10Speaker 00

  For doing nothing.

• 58:11Speaker 01

  They were just posted up. They didn't do anything wrong and you killed all of them. So now we gotta settle this. So then a massive civil war happens in Ithaca. All the families are killing each other. Like Athena comes in, is like, yo, guys, chill. Zeus comes down, throws a lightning bolt, everything stops, and then Athena drafts up a peace treaty. Says, all right, look, here's how we're gonna settle this. Everyone on the island is gonna have their memories wiped of what happened. And then Odysseus is gonna be the king, and you guys are gonna be ruled by him, and you're gonna like it. The end.

• 58:40Mark Gagnon?

  Leave that part out.

• 58:41Speaker 00

  That's too.

• 58:42Mark Gagnon?

  Whoever added that sauce on it, nah, he was a little.

• 58:45Speaker 00

  What is that term in filmmaking or stories? Deos ex machina?

• 58:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, the hand of God.

• 58:50Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  But that's a lot of the Greek mythology. Like, the Iliad starts with the gods arguing about who's the hottest.

• 58:56Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, sure. But having just God come in and just save the day at the last moment is just like the laziest form of storytelling.

• 59:06Speaker 01

  After arguably the greatest story of all time.

• 59:07Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 59:08Speaker 03

  That's calypso. It's too much hand of God. Also, talking about this, I know it's, you know, half of the year, Oscar winner for the best picture.

• 59:16Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:17Speaker 03

  We have Odyssey.

• 59:18Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. Call of Duty is the Odyssey of 50%.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  A hundred percent.

• 59:21Speaker 03

  We got season part three, and then we got a movie I can't say. Al, maybe you can hit that one.

• 59:26Mark Gagnon?

  See, it's racist that you say you can't say.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  Cause you're just thinking about your favorite word.

• 59:31Speaker 03

  No, Al, look at it.

• 59:32Mark Gagnon?

  Like, no, I see it.

• 59:33Speaker 03

  Cause if I would've said it, if I would've said it fast, you guys would've got on me.

• 59:38Mark Gagnon?

  I think every word coming out your mouth is that.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Whoa, you say it three times.

• 59:44Speaker 00

  Don't say it three times, bro. I try to say it three times, don't not say it three times.

• 59:51Mark Gagnon?

  Like, that was crazy.

• 59:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, it felt a little weird, right?

• 59:56Mark Gagnon?

  Thank you, Al.

• 1:00:02Speaker 00

  Doom part three could be gas like I don't see why it why it won't but come on we're not playing around.

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  Did you a lot is being made over the fact that he shot it practically practically meeting like without CGI.

• 1:00:16Mark Gagnon?

  Loved that a lot, but then the Cyclops scene took me so far out of it.

• 1:00:20Speaker 00

  Talk to me.

• 1:00:20Mark Gagnon?

  It just looked too fake compared to the rest of the day. But like the scene when them motherfuckers come out the ground and that was shot practically I'm like holy shit.

• 1:00:29Speaker 03

  What about the monster when he's on the boat?

• 1:00:31Speaker 00

  So.

• 1:00:32Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, the monster on the boat looked fake as fuck too.

• 1:00:34Speaker 03

  I didn't think so.

• 1:00:34Speaker 00

  So real quick about the uh so a couple of things. One, what was the first one that you mentioned?

• 1:00:41Mark Gagnon?

  The Cyclops.

• 1:00:42Speaker 00

  Cyclops, I hear what you're saying. The Cyclops thing was a little bit peculiar because like there was like a character issue that we don't really understand like why he's spiking the fucking ball in the end zone like it makes sense.

• 1:00:54Mark Gagnon?

  Sheep even kind of looked a little fake. I like the sound.

• 1:00:57Speaker 00

  Sheep are real.

• 1:00:58Mark Gagnon?

  No, I think part of it like when they were first coming in, it was like it was fake sheep.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  No, everything's practical.

• 1:01:04Mark Gagnon?

  I'm telling you, I bet you look it up, I bet you part of the sheep is CGI.

• 1:01:09Speaker 00

  There's no CGI.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:11Mark Gagnon?

  The Cyclops is CGI, nigga.

• 1:01:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:01:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:01:14Speaker 00

  The Cyclops is a puppet. You didn't know this? Let me blow your fucking mind. The Cyclops.

• 1:01:20Mark Gagnon?

  It looks pretty fake.

• 1:01:21Speaker 00

  The Cyclops, it's yeah, because it's fake.

• 1:01:23Mark Gagnon?

  No, I know that, but it like it looks like.

• 1:01:25Speaker 00

  It is an actual practical puppet.

• 1:01:27Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, really?

• 1:01:28Speaker 00

  And that's what's so fascinating about it and I think that and I think that's why it looks a little bit fake is because it's literally a gigantic animatronic that they're using. So they're using a puppeteer.

• 1:01:42Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 1:01:42Speaker 00

  In the same way like with Interstellar, remember Tars? Remember, remember the robot? Yeah, so look, that's actually what it looks like.

• 1:01:50Mark Gagnon?

  Ah, but you see they put sauce on it.

• 1:01:53Speaker 00

  Actually, I think it's lighting. So what they do is they keep him kind of like absconded in the dark.

• 1:01:57Mark Gagnon?

  Look at left, look at right.

• 1:01:59Speaker 00

  I don't know if this is even real. Just, just to clarify, he's not against using CGI to soften things or remove things. But the actual thing that you're interacting with, he wants to be real so that you have this real interaction with it.

• 1:02:16Speaker 01

  You get a massive object, your eyes dilate, you feel this.

• 1:02:19Speaker 03

  Invisible CGI.

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  Exactly. So for example, in the, in the scene where they're all, where the dead is buried, they were all buried.

• 1:02:26Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I know.

• 1:02:26Speaker 00

  And they use like little snorkels to breathe and then you can remove the snorkels. But if you also think about that scene, they film it in almost pitch black. Cause that's the only way you could get away with burying 300 people. And they said an interesting thing about that scene, like if you put a little inch of soil on top of somebody or sand, they can get up whenever they want. A few inches and all of a sudden you can't get up out of that bitch. So it was like a very delicate, you know, scene, whatever. But so, yeah, so this is all. And then like this version of it, I imagine that you're looking at right now. Since they're close up and there's no one else that you can see is a person wearing makeup.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  It's the same guy that was in Tars.

• 1:03:07Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, really? Okay.

• 1:03:09Speaker 03

  Inside, but there are, there is invisible CGI. They had to paint out like wires, they had to paint out like the things that are making the world.

• 1:03:15Speaker 00

  You ready? You ready? The whirlpool.

• 1:03:18Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:19Speaker 00

  Practical.

• 1:03:20Mark Gagnon?

  That's easy. Just a bunch of niggas just run around the pool. We've done that before.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  You ever do that hot stuff?

• 1:03:28Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:03:29Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:30Speaker 00

  They took jet skis.

• 1:03:31Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Oh, really?

• 1:03:33Speaker 00

  Drove them around a circle, created the outer ring. And then I'm sure they CGI'd the middle of it.

• 1:03:39Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  But what you're dealing with now is you're on a boat and you see this fucking, you know, water going, whatever. And it kind of like feels real.

• 1:03:47Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, and now they go like when they're getting around the whirlpool and then all they break all the fucking paddles on the side.

• 1:03:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:03:54Mark Gagnon?

  But then they're still able to continue going. You don't have a bunch of extra paddles.

• 1:03:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you have the other side's paddles.

• 1:04:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, so now you're half paddles?

• 1:04:03Speaker 00

  No, you're just.

• 1:04:03Mark Gagnon?

  And they broke a bunch of paddles throughout. Like, all of a sudden, they had a brand-new row of paddles.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  Let's say you got twenty, let's say you got twenty paddles on each side. You break these ten, now you got five on each side. You're going half the speed.

• 1:04:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but every time they got into some shit.

• 1:04:16Speaker 00

  That's the most unbelievable part of them.

• 1:04:18Mark Gagnon?

  No, I just didn't like it.

• 1:04:19Speaker 00

  The amount of paddles that exist.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  I made one comment.

• 1:04:22Mark Gagnon?

  Continuity.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  I said one thing about Interstellar, and you told me I was a dumb idiot for years.

• 1:04:26Mark Gagnon?

  Because you are a dumb idiot. But this shit, if he's all continuity, practicals and all that shit, they should have had like one paddle.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  You ready for the shit that's gonna fuck you up?

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yes, yeah, fuck him up.

• 1:04:35Speaker 00

  You ready for the shit that's gonna fuck you up?

• 1:04:37Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Speaker 00

  The scene where they turn the people into pigs? Practical, yes. You think I'm joking? You think I'm joking?

• 1:04:46Mark Gagnon?

  What do you, what do you mean?

• 1:04:48Speaker 00

  Done practically.

• 1:04:51Mark Gagnon?

  Explain, because a human can't just turn into a pig, so.

• 1:04:55Speaker 00

  Well.

• 1:04:56Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, it's some girls that pat, but.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  We got that.

• 1:05:01Mark Gagnon?

  Nope, nope, nope, nope.

• 1:05:03Speaker 00

  No!

• 1:05:04Mark Gagnon?

  Come on, I'm married, nigga, stop it.

• 1:05:07Speaker 00

  Why would your wife be upset at you saying girls get turned into pigs?

• 1:05:10Mark Gagnon?

  Other women are pigs.

• 1:05:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, Michelle.

• 1:05:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I show like I talk like that.

• 1:05:12Speaker 00

  That's not that bad. Look up, look up pig scene shot practically. So what they did is they started with the actors, right? And then they had these like, some sort of people, like, they're not actual people, but like some sort of like sculptable, um, mannequin, whatever? Where the actress Cersei could shape their faces. And she would start to shape them and morph them. And then eventually you get like the more pig looking like things. There's, but there's no CGI in the scene at all. They're all eating the shit.

• 1:05:50Mark Gagnon?

  I think it's a little bit of the invisible CGI shit.

• 1:05:53Speaker 03

  Possibly.

• 1:05:53Mark Gagnon?

  There's no way that's out.

• 1:05:55Speaker 03

  But what's a very cool part is the camera's moving and there's wipes using like bodies and stuff like that so that they can switch out the head they're using to get closer and closer to the pig.

• 1:06:03Speaker 00

  Yeah, so watch them talk about right here. This shit is, this shit is cool.

• 1:06:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like, we were there, we were a part of it, sometimes we participated in the shots, and then we saw it and we're like, how did he do that?

• 1:06:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, like when they turn the, the people into pigs? That's all real. People into pigs?

• 1:06:18Speaker 04

  Wild.

• 1:06:19Speaker 05

  It is.

• 1:06:20Speaker 04

  Like, all of that sculpting that she's doing?

• 1:06:22Speaker 05

  It's all animatronics.

• 1:06:22Speaker 04

  That's not, that's not CGI.

• 1:06:26Speaker 04

  What do you mean?

• 1:06:27Speaker 00

  She's like, "Yeah, right now."

• 1:06:28Speaker 04

  I know, exactly. That is a practical effect.

• 1:06:31Speaker 05

  It's an animatronic head.

• 1:06:34Speaker 04

  She's like going, "Yeah."

• 1:06:35Speaker 05

  And she like hings her jaws apart. I was like, "That's real."

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  They, they worked with an artist to create something that Samantha could sculpt with, live, on camera.

• 1:06:43Speaker 06

  Okay, you just blew my mind.

• 1:06:46Speaker 05

  That's what I mean.

• 1:06:48Speaker 00

  Tom is so adorable.

• 1:06:50Speaker 05

  We must have used CG then. And then the movie ended, and Christopher sat behind me, I literally turned around and the first thing was like, "How did you do that thing with the pigs?" And he was like, "Oh, it's just camera angles and animatronics and a bunch of actors that were really game to do something crazy."

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  So, so, so pause right here. A lot is being made of shot, shooting things practically. And I, and I, and I want to point something out, and I think this is like, when the movie came out, Marvel dropped its newest like doomsday trailer.

• 1:07:16Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 1:07:16Speaker 00

  And I think maybe Dune had already dropped their trailer or something like that, but specifically Marvel. And like, one of the things about CGI, and we kind of like grew up with CGI being implemented. You know what I mean?

• 1:07:29Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:07:30Speaker 00

  CGI was mind blowing to us.

• 1:07:32Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  Because you took things that literally could not happen, and then you created worlds out of it. So every time we would watch like a huge action sequence or something like that, it blew our fucking mind. These were like, "How are you creating this? These are impossible things that you cannot create. I know I can't create it at all."

• 1:07:52Speaker 00

  I can make anything on my phone now.

• 1:07:57Speaker 00

  I can do any tsunami wipes over New York City, destroys everything. Uh, Iron Man defeats, suddenly rips his head off.

• 1:08:05Speaker 05

  With one prompt.

• 1:08:06Speaker 00

  With one prompt on my phone.

• 1:08:07Mark Gagnon?

  So now it's not as impressive.

• 1:08:09Speaker 00

  Now, I don't think this is why Nolan is doing it. I assume he's doing it because he thinks actors acting with the things is the more realistic version, you get the best performance, whatever. But secondarily, the, the value of CGI is useless. Like, if you were a porn star and you were able to like stay hard for an hour back in the day. No, I mean, this'll make sense.

• 1:08:32Mark Gagnon?

  Well, let him cook.

• 1:08:33Speaker 00

  That was like, you were like, "Yo, like, how is he hard again?" Like, like you were blown, like you couldn't believe it. You're like, "You are the fucking, you're a god."

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  Now with Bluetooth or whatever, like it's nothing to be, I can be hard for an hour. Like that's CGI.

• 1:08:51Speaker 01

  Now being soft is cool.

• 1:08:52Speaker 00

  Being soft is the cool. But like, so, so to me, it's diminishing returns for anything you do. And like doing special effects in a movie is like.

• 1:09:07Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, I won't go as far to say that. It had, the value of it has lessened, but there's still, like Marvel still blows it out the park every time.

• 1:09:17Speaker 00

  I'm not saying that they don't blow it out the park, but I'm not shocked that they can make a building get destroyed.

• 1:09:22Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:23Speaker 00

  I'm like, okay.

• 1:09:23Speaker 01

  But back in the day, Michael Bay exploded a hospital.

• 1:09:25Speaker 00

  Son, Michael Bay exploding some shit or blowing something up or anything. Yes.

• 1:09:31Speaker 03

  Christopher Nolan, he's, he's thinking the Dark Knight.

• 1:09:34Speaker 00

  But.

• 1:09:34Speaker 01

  I'm saying more generally speaking.

• 1:09:36Speaker 00

  I know, I know what you're thinking.

• 1:09:37Speaker 03

  I know, I know.

• 1:09:38Speaker 00

  I know what you're thinking. We just kept moving. Michael Bay, Michael Bay did do a lot of explosions.

• 1:09:42Speaker 01

  He's known for it, I think.

• 1:09:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. Yes. And it would be crazy. The Transformers, seeing the thing transform, you're like, this is my boy.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  Christopher Nolan.

• 1:09:48Speaker 00

  I can do it.

• 1:09:50Speaker 03

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I apologize. I took you off track and you're on a great point.

• 1:09:56Speaker 00

  Does it make sense what I'm saying? Like, I don't think he's doing it to shit on them. But it's already unimpressive. Like the story is what's gonna win. And now, weirdly enough, the effects are gonna win because you know it's real.

• 1:10:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, we have an appreciation for how difficult it is to do shit.

• 1:10:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, thank you for wording that beautifully.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Tore in, this is kind of my thing with like AI art, like with now that you can do AI art, seeing a sculpture that someone handcrafted. Brother, has almost more power because you're like, wow, and someone spent years working on this piece of marble. That's phenomenal. And maybe there was a time where painting was seen equal, but now that you can do AI art, it doesn't have maybe the same, the same feeling.

• 1:10:35Speaker 00

  The idea that one mistake, and yes, there are little ways to patch things up, but one mistake on this massive piece of wood or marble.

• 1:10:43Speaker 00

  would ruin the entire thing like the level of perfection that you have to operate at to create these sculptures back in the day with like rough tools too we're not talking about like electric chisels and shit you know you're just banging away at something and to make something smooth that fucking what is it Benini or something like that where he he creates the

• 1:11:01Speaker 01

  the veiled virgin

• 1:11:02Speaker 00

  yeah he like creates the sculpture and then puts a veil on the sculpture have you seen this Bernini is it

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  I think so Giovanni Strazza is the one that I'm talking about but there's another one I'm sure there's a few famous sculptors have done this kind of thing

• 1:11:16Mark Gagnon?

  I've seen this before

• 1:11:19Speaker 00

  he's making a veil out of the same piece of marble it's like

• 1:11:25Mark Gagnon?

  that's phenomenal yeah that's

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  I thought I was about to shit on him

• 1:11:29Mark Gagnon?

  no no no I can recognize real but

• 1:11:33Speaker 00

  my point is my point is getting the fucking getting the getting AI to do that or CGI to do that is unimpressive yeah because there's something representative of human hours a human being doing something problem solving yeah like this is an insane problem

• 1:11:51Mark Gagnon?

  guys the way that 3D printers are becoming everywhere now yeah even that is going to be something that people can just do

• 1:11:59Speaker 01

  but no it's not the fact they can do it it's the fact that this one was done without it

• 1:12:02Mark Gagnon?

  oh I get what you're saying okay

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  and then you go there were hours poured into this that is impressive to me that someone was able to do this

• 1:12:08Mark Gagnon?

  but I think even painters now today it's harder for them to like really break through or be huge because it's like you know the same shit you can paint I can make that like this

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  to an extent but like there's people even now like modern painters that are doing Caravaggio's or Caravaggio style and people are buying it for big money because they're like oh this is impressive

• 1:12:29Mark Gagnon?

  yeah I get you

• 1:12:32Speaker 00

  there's a Japanese thing saying where it's like imperfection is more beautiful

• 1:12:37Speaker 01

  the gold cracks

• 1:12:38Speaker 00

  yes where like you lean towards the things that are imperfect because they're more unique and their imperfection makes them more beautiful and in a world where you can make perfect things all the time the things that are slightly off and imperfect are actually more unique and more special

• 1:12:52Speaker 01

  kintsugi

• 1:12:53Speaker 00

  what is it called wabi sabi

• 1:12:56Speaker 01

  I saw it. I saw it. Kintsugi, but yeah, same shit. But it's this idea of like you highlight the imperfections.

• 1:13:01Speaker 00

  They highlight the cracks.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:02Speaker 00

  They highlight the imperfections because that's what makes it unique. And like back in the day when they were doing like Cowboys versus Indians movies, there would be like one scene in the movie where like a train would crash going across a bridge and they would do it practically. Because back then they didn't even have it. There were versions where they would make like a smaller miniature thing of it, whatever. But like anytime they did like a real one, it would like make waves in the industry. Like they spent $500,000 on this one fucking scene. And then people excited to go see it because they're like, how the fuck could they make a train crash? Because their brains couldn't conceptualize CGI or anything. Our brains are so used to CGI, we can't even conceptualize practical.

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  I mean, so when I told you it was real, you're like, what do you mean it was real?

• 1:13:51Speaker 01

  I mean, you've seen this before, right? This is like super famous Buster Keaton.

• 1:13:54Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:55Speaker 01

  This is done practically where he's standing there and they have to measure it to like an inch.

• 1:14:00Speaker 00

  Before he dies.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  An inch or he dies.

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  He's got a nail on the ground and it's holding his foot in place.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  And he goes, okay, I'm going to stand here and then this whole thing is going to collapse on me and I hope that I don't die.

• 1:14:12Speaker 03

  Can I? If you guys like this kind of stuff, there's a great channel called Corridor Crew. And they do breakdowns of all the CGI every week. It's the great, great show and they're fans of Flagrant. I've seen it in.

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  Like her teeth are practical.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  This is a fascinating practical effect. Have you seen this before?

• 1:14:27Speaker 00

  No, show me.

• 1:14:28Speaker 01

  This is from a 1937 movie, all done practically, no post.

• 1:14:39Speaker 00

  Oh, that's cool.

• 1:14:40Speaker 01

  That was fire. Crazy. And then they explain how they do it. They basically put like makeup on her and then they change the camera length.

• 1:14:48Speaker 00

  Exposure, right?

• 1:14:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, like changing the color of the camera.

• 1:14:51Speaker 03

  There's a red filter on it if I'm not mistaken. And they pull the red filter away and then all of the blue or the green.

• 1:14:58Speaker 01

  That's dope.

• 1:15:00Speaker 00

  Crazy.

• 1:15:01Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, that's dope.

• 1:15:02Speaker 00

  Anyway.

• 1:15:03Mark Gagnon?

  All right, one more thing.

• 1:15:04Speaker 00

  Yeah, go.

• 1:15:04Mark Gagnon?

  Guys, I do like the movie. I do think it was good. I don't think it was.

• 1:15:08Speaker 00

  You're offering good perspective to bounce off, but yeah.

• 1:15:13Mark Gagnon?

  This, what's it called? IMAX shit? Stop it, like.

• 1:15:17Speaker 00

  Did you go to it?

• 1:15:18Mark Gagnon?

  I didn't, but all it really offers you is just an extra inch above, an extra inch below, like.

• 1:15:27Mark Gagnon?

  I think they're putting, they're going a little too hard because first, uh, what's his face from Sinners? He made everybody go crazy. He's like, oh my God, I shot this in IMAX and like, it brought a lot of people out because of that. And that's why this one right now, if you try to buy an IMAX ticket, it's sold out for like eight weeks or something like that.

• 1:15:46Speaker 03

  But it's kind of annoying. It's like, bro, I, I, I want to see the whole movie.

• 1:15:50Mark Gagnon?

  The visuals, and I'm sorry, you might disagree, they were good. They weren't outstanding.

• 1:15:58Speaker 03

  That's.

• 1:15:59Mark Gagnon?

  They were good. They weren't outstanding.

• 1:16:00Speaker 03

  I mean, this looks pretty outstanding.

• 1:16:01Mark Gagnon?

  Bro, so Sinners was better. Avatar was better.

• 1:16:06Speaker 03

  I mean, yes, but that's a whole different movie. Avatar versus this are completely.

• 1:16:09Speaker 00

  I'm just saying.

• 1:16:10Speaker 03

  Coco was better. It's like.

• 1:16:11Mark Gagnon?

  Okay, Sinners.

• 1:16:13Speaker 00

  What, what was better about Sinners?

• 1:16:15Mark Gagnon?

  Visually, I think it was more compelling.

• 1:16:17Speaker 00

  Like what scenes? The cotton field scene?

• 1:16:19Mark Gagnon?

  No, every, that was whoop.

• 1:16:23Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:16:25Speaker 00

  To me, that's the one that everybody talks about, right? They're like, we actually are going to shoot practically on a gigantic field and you're going to need the entire, like, we need eight miles of this field to really show the, the scope of work that these people were doing.

• 1:16:39Mark Gagnon?

  I think there were just way more scenes in Sinners that I was like, wow, this looks like visually stunning. There was, I was never.

• 1:16:45Speaker 00

  What scene specifically, like, not to knock Sinners, but like, what scene specifically was like, you need IMAX for, I, I.

• 1:16:52Speaker 03

  Sinners is beautiful, no doubt.

• 1:16:53Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I'm just talking about the beauty of it. I, I, because I'm against needing that extra top and bottom. I don't think it's necessary. Like, you enjoy the movie.

• 1:17:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Mark Gagnon?

  Just as much. I don't think.

• 1:17:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, I, I, I didn't, I didn't miss anything because I don't know what I'm missing.

• 1:17:05Mark Gagnon?

  Exactly.

• 1:17:05Speaker 00

  If I was the average person, I would go see it on a regular shitty screen and then when I. IMAX is available, you're gonna wanna see this movie twice. It's one of those types of movies. Then you see it on the IMAX and you have a somewhat different experience the second time. Like, that's how I would do it.

• 1:17:20Mark Gagnon?

  If anything, I think I missed out on the sound. Cause IMAX even has like much better sound and that's something I wish I got to experience IMAX.

• 1:17:27Speaker 00

  Sound, sound is awesome.

• 1:17:28Mark Gagnon?

  But I'm saying two things. I'm saying, let's stop being extra because the way to shoot this, you have, you only get three minutes of actual shooting and then they have to wait 15 minutes to change the fucking tape. And they had to create a whole new type of camera just so because the other, the old ones are too loud.

• 1:17:44Speaker 00

  They didn't have to create a new camera. They had to create a casing for it. Yeah. Cause you can't record dialogue in the IMAX cameras.

• 1:17:49Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, shoot the shit regular. Stop being extra, stop being extra, shoot the shit regular.

• 1:17:54Speaker 00

  It was funny, cause like, um, Nolan like, uh, told, I guess Anne Hathaway, she couldn't wear Uggs to set. And his logic was like, we're making a, you know, a, a film set in like early antiquity. Like, there's no Uggs back then. So like, exists within this, this world. And it's like, um, well, there's also an IMAX camera. And the characters have to perform into a mirror because the IMAX camera is so big, it's getting in between the characters for certain shots. So it's like, this is like the classic, like Daniel Day Lewis thing.

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  Who like, I love, you know, like I'm, I'm filming this movie right now with the, this guy, Janusz Kaminski is, is the DP of it. So he's Spielberg's DP and like, so he has all his guys. So I'm like talking to all his like camera guys and, and Yash and like, you know, they work with Daniel on, on, on Lincoln.

• 1:18:47Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:18:47Speaker 00

  And like, it was Daniel Day Lewis is like, exists within Lincoln. And like, if you like, he didn't like tape. He didn't like blue or green tape. These are the mark things. Cause he, that didn't exist for Lincoln back then.

• 1:18:59Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, like.

• 1:19:00Speaker 00

  So, and like, he would be like, huh, huh, huh, like move that, like, he, but he, he didn't know what it was, cause he's in character. He's like, uh, uh. And it's like, yeah, I get it. But at the same time, like, there's all these black people working on this movie.

• 1:19:15Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean?

• 1:19:15Speaker 01

  Which Lincoln might have liked.

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  What are we doing with the black people? Like, you know what I mean? Like, what? So like, there's a certain amount of suspending disbelief. And maybe, maybe they're just like, hey, I'm already suspending disbelief with this much shit. Don't make me do anymore.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:29Speaker 00

  Maybe that's the version, which I kind of get. But there is also like a, this performative nature.

• 1:19:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:36Speaker 01

  I don't know how you can be method like that. If I was method Lincoln, I would just be such a dick.

• 1:19:40Speaker 00

  Bro, apparently it's, it's like, uh, the chick from Twilight said this, what's her name?

• 1:19:46Speaker 01

  Uh, Kristen Stewart.

• 1:19:47Speaker 00

  Yeah, apparently she was like, it's only guys that do method. Like, there's not one woman who's...

• 1:19:53Speaker 00

  It's just guys being gay. Like, she's like, I literally think it's guys' egos. They don't want to be told what to do. So they'll be like, in character, you can tell me what to do? But you're not going to tell me what to do? Like, there's not a single female actress? And there's brilliant female actresses like, I have to be fucking Harriet Tubman all day.

• 1:20:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:20:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:20:15Mark Gagnon?

  But yeah, still, Nolan, he could do it all wrong. The film was great. I just think people overhyping it a little bit.

• 1:20:23Speaker 00

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• 1:23:26Speaker 01

  We did it to address two things.

• 1:23:28Speaker 00

  Yes, go.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  People online, of course, were really mad about Elliot Page and Lupita.

• 1:23:33Speaker 00

  You don't even think about it.

• 1:23:34Mark Gagnon?

  You don't at all.

• 1:23:35Speaker 00

  You don't even think about it. I actually think actually doing Lupita...

• 1:23:42Speaker 00

  Having her be like one of the only black people in the movie.

• 1:23:47Speaker 00

  To me. Makes it stand out as the most beautiful girl in the world more.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Cause it's exotic.

• 1:23:54Speaker 00

  Cause what is exotic, what is different?

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  The most unique person.

• 1:23:56Speaker 00

  Yes. If you just have another beautiful white chick in a sea of beautiful white chicks. There's gonna be someone watching that movie like. Yeah, she bad, but she not that bad. Like, there's a bunch of other ones that look just like that.

• 1:24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:10Speaker 00

  So, so the uniqueness, I could make an argument for. And then the Elliot Page thing is like, it's like a nothing role.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  Right. People were saying that Elliot Page is gonna be Achilles. And like that was floated out there.

• 1:24:21Speaker 00

  It's literally just like the Daily Wire saying shit so that they can react to it.

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:26Speaker 00

  I don't know if they actually put it up, but it feels very like Daily Wire, like I'm gonna be angry about this movie.

• 1:24:31Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know, yeah. The right was. They was hating on this shit before it came out. And they were like, it's not even gonna do well. And now they gotta eat their words.

• 1:24:38Speaker 00

  Also, you can put whatever characters in shit. I actually really believe that, like, as long as it doesn't feel forced. Like if the Elliot Page character was like, as a trans soldier for the Ithican army. Everybody'd be like, what the fuck am I watching? But just as some little twink soldier that's running to the horse that gets killed immediately. You don't think people on the right were like, whoa, they found good use for that?

• 1:25:05Mark Gagnon?

  Little force.

• 1:25:06Speaker 00

  What was, what was?

• 1:25:08Mark Gagnon?

  She's not a size of a fucking army person, like.

• 1:25:12Speaker 00

  But, but that was the point.

• 1:25:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but it's like, would they even let her put on armor? Like, you're just wasting armor.

• 1:25:20Speaker 01

  They probably like kids fight back then, you know?

• 1:25:22Speaker 00

  Well, no, they, they didn't let an 18 year old get in there. No, they, they did, but like the, the, the point of that character. Was Antinous, Robert Pattinson's character was supposed to go to war. And then his family bribes their shepherd's family. To send their son instead of him.

• 1:25:38Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:38Speaker 00

  So I imagine. He's supposed to represent like. The weakest, most defenseless parts of society that are taken advantage of by the wealthy to die in their place.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:25:49Speaker 00

  So you have this, at this point, it's this tiny little boy.

• 1:25:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:53Speaker 00

  He's like, he looks like he's 12 going out. And then by the time you see him as Elliot Page. She's just getting fucking brutalized immediately. And it's like, it actually looks, if he's this big monstrous soldier and he gets killed, it don't feel as bad. Oh, okay. But if it's a defenseless little weakling. Gotcha. And they shouldn't have been there in the first place when this perfectly capable person should have gone. Okay. I assume that was the logic. I don't think it was like, we gotta get a trans person in here, so we win an Oscar. And even if that was the thinking, they found a storyline that I thought made sense.

• 1:26:29Speaker 01

  And the Trojan horse is kinda trans anyway.

• 1:26:31Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:26:32Speaker 01

  Right? It looks like a horse on the outside, but there's a man inside trying to get out. That's, that's the trans experience, you know?

• 1:26:39Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:26:39Speaker 01

  But yeah, I'm gonna go see it. I'm gonna see it this weekend, I promise.

• 1:26:42Speaker 00

  You know you're not.

• 1:26:43Speaker 01

  I will, I'm going to. This is right in my alley. I'm gonna enjoy it, despite what you've done.

• 1:26:46Speaker 00

  All right, just last thing before we go.

• 1:26:52Speaker 00

  The idea of like, there's this one part at the end where I think Calypso reminds him, like, Poseidon, you have to submit yourself to the gods. Stop fighting the gods. Something you can control everything. Like, this is not up to you. He constantly trying to control, constantly thinks he's more cunning and witty than the gods. And then she goes, "You are not, and you have lost all of your men because they too thought that they were gonna do it. You are the only one that's gonna survive. If you submit yourself to Poseidon, Zeus will not let him kill you. He will fuck you up, but he's not gonna let you kill you." And like, it was this really interesting message where like, you can fight back constantly, but at a certain point, submission is the way through.

• 1:27:36Speaker 00

  And like, there is a version of forgiveness. Like, the gods forgave him for breaking their rule as long as he was willing to submit and understand what he did. And like, that being the pathway through.

• 1:27:49Speaker 01

  Acceptance.

• 1:27:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's kinda beautiful. You know, like, you just project, I don't know, did you find yourself kind of like connecting to stories within this and like, projecting your life onto it?

• 1:28:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, even in reading it, like even reading like the bridge versions that I read, I was like, oh, this is my experience with this thing. This is my relationship with this person. Like, it's so, so tangible.

• 1:28:11Speaker 00

  And that's the thing like that I left from it. I was like, every project that we put together, it has to be on this level of like, human introspection. Because each character, you have to painfully see yourselves in, in a way. You know, like, your hubris has to be represented in their hubris. And like, you might not be them on their journey, but there will be decisions that they make that you know that you've made, that you either regret or are proud of. And then you, if you are living through them, that's how you create connectability or connection, whatever, with that, with the story.

• 1:28:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  And I think that's like, Bible, the Odyssey, Shakespeare.

• 1:28:49Speaker 01

  This is why reading religious history is like my favorite thing ever. Just like, reading like, like, uh, the Ramayana.

• 1:28:56Speaker 00

  This is like the thing that like Marvel's based on?

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Maybe, I actually don't know.

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  The Indian.

• 1:29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is like, Arjun is like, trying to like, fight this battle, and he's been approached by a god, and he like, talks to the god about what it means to fight. Like, it's just a thousand, two thousand, three thousand year old story that persists because it's awesome.

• 1:29:12Speaker 00

  I think, look it up, but I think like Marvel, they make the argument that Marvel, the universe is, uh, I'm gonna use the word inspired by.

• 1:29:20Speaker 01

  Let me see.

• 1:29:21Mark Gagnon?

  Interesting.

• 1:29:22Speaker 00

  Or something, I don't know. Or maybe Dove was wanting to develop something around.

• 1:29:25Mark Gagnon?

  I'm excited for Marvel this year. We got Spider-Man coming out soon, and Doom. Oh, it's gonna be fun.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it says Marvel's mythos is heavily inspired by Hindu epics. Marvel directly features the Hindu pantheon in the realm of Nirvana.

• 1:29:40Speaker 00

  Yeah. Anyway, fire.

• 1:29:43Speaker 01

  Should we rip some feelings and facts? How was World Cup final?

• 1:29:46Speaker 00

  That shit was unbelievable.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Fire, right?

• 1:29:48Speaker 00

  I mean, like, outside of going to see the Knicks. I was going to see Knicks game three, four, five, even just four, five. Maybe there was like a UFC event that I went to. But that was like the greatest athletic experience I ever had. And like, maybe it's different.

• 1:30:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:30:09Speaker 00

  Maybe it's different watching soccer live. You know, certain sports, like watching NFL football live sucks.

• 1:30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:18Speaker 00

  It's horrible.

• 1:30:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:20Speaker 00

  Cause it's a game of inches that you're watching from.

• 1:30:23Speaker 01

  You can't see the inches.

• 1:30:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, so you don't know what a three yard run is.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, and yeah, for me, I need someone to explain what's going on. Like, oh, this rule was violated, there's a flag on the play because of this, and now they need to do this to win.

• 1:30:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I'm straight, so like, I understand more or less what's happening in the game.

• 1:30:37Mark Gagnon?

  Like a girl.

• 1:30:38Speaker 01

  It's a little helpful, cause I'd be like, oh, this number guy.

• 1:30:41Speaker 00

  No, I don't relate to that at all, because I like girls. So like, for me, I understand when I'm watching the game, but I could totally imagine if you like stuffing cocks in your butt, how like you would be confused when you watch soccer or football, sorry. Anyway, um, that was crazy you just said that. I can't believe you just said that.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  That shit is hard to know.

• 1:30:58Mark Gagnon?

  We don't even watch soccer, I know all the rules of soccer.

• 1:31:00Speaker 01

  No, how does offsides work when the goalkeeper comes up?

• 1:31:02Mark Gagnon?

  You can't pass the line.

• 1:31:03Speaker 01

  What if he becomes the last man?

• 1:31:05Speaker 00

  It's not offsides.

• 1:31:06Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, if it's in the box.

• 1:31:08Speaker 00

  Nope. But that never happens. With football, you know what's happening, he hands him the roundish looking thing, and he tries to go forward. That's good, when he goes back, that's bad.

• 1:31:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that part I get.

• 1:31:20Speaker 00

  There's no other rules.

• 1:31:21Speaker 01

  What's a tush push? What does that even?

• 1:31:23Speaker 00

  How many times that happened that you gotta worry about?

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  Who even knows, I don't even know really what's going on.

• 1:31:28Speaker 00

  You just read that on the internet.

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:30Speaker 00

  Okay, so, so, so, uh, there was criticism about the game because it was like low scoring or whatever. And again, maybe being there, when you watch the sport live, you really enjoy it or something. Like, maybe it's just a very enjoyable thing to watch live soccer, I haven't really watched it live, so I wouldn't know.

• 1:31:46Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, I like live, live is fire.

• 1:31:48Speaker 00

  I was mesmerized.

• 1:31:51Speaker 00

  I was mesmerized.

• 1:31:53Speaker 01

  Just seeing the buildup, like the tension?

• 1:31:56Speaker 00

  You have to appreciate almost, you know the best guys with women? Are the guys that enjoy hitting on them even if they don't get them. Cause they enjoy the soccer of it. They enjoy almost scoring. That's fun to them. Like the guys are the worst women, the guys that like need to score. But the guys that enjoy the chat, they enjoy the game, they enjoy the buildup. They're the best.

• 1:32:23Speaker 01

  That's what soccer is. It's all tension and buildup, you know?

• 1:32:27Speaker 00

  I fucking.

• 1:32:28Speaker 01

  And even low scoring games, it's like, when you have sex, there's only one nut, maybe two.

• 1:32:32Speaker 00

  Exactly. You don't need much more.

• 1:32:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the whole experience is fire.

• 1:32:36Mark Gagnon?

  When you understand the sport, it's like boxing. It's like you can watch a Mayweather fight. Some people think it's boring and I'm like, no, that's.

• 1:32:43Speaker 01

  Technically impressive.

• 1:32:45Speaker 00

  And the similarities with boxing do not end there. You can absolutely dominate a fight on points in boxing, meaning like your Mayweather style out boxing the opponent. But there's always a chance you could get knocked out. And when a game is zero, zero.

• 1:33:02Mark Gagnon?

  Always a chance.

• 1:33:03Speaker 00

  Even though Spain was dominating them, all it takes is one header off a corner. One header off a set piece, one missed.

• 1:33:13Speaker 01

  Anything, one mistake.

• 1:33:14Speaker 00

  There was still excitement in it because even though Argentina was getting absolutely dominated.

• 1:33:20Speaker 01

  Belt to ass.

• 1:33:21Speaker 00

  Belt to ass. They were in it. And you knew if it went to penalties, you're like, these motherfuckers are gonna win.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:33:27Speaker 00

  You knew it.

• 1:33:28Speaker 01

  It's like a villain that won't die. It's like they keep on squeaking by every single game. Are they gonna be able to do it again?

• 1:33:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I miss the words villain.

• 1:33:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, people are not happy about it. Did you see the fight afterwards? Like you saw the brawl?

• 1:33:39Speaker 00

  Nah, we dipped, bro.

• 1:33:41Mark Gagnon?

  Ah, you missed the best ball.

• 1:33:43Speaker 01

  He left at halftime.

• 1:33:43Speaker 00

  We missed the best ball. We watched the whole thing, but the second it was over, we fucking got up out of there.

• 1:33:49Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. The true winners of the World Cup?

• 1:33:52Speaker 00

  America.

• 1:33:53Mark Gagnon?

  Israel.

• 1:33:54Speaker 00

  Tell me why.

• 1:33:56Mark Gagnon?

  What country do people hate for right now?

• 1:33:58Speaker 00

  Oh, you think they hate Argentina?

• 1:34:00Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:34:00Speaker 00

  So they handed off their hate to Argentina?

• 1:34:03Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:03Speaker 03

  Open up your timeline right now.

• 1:34:04Mark Gagnon?

  It got personal.

• 1:34:05Speaker 03

  Nobody cares about what Israel's doing.

• 1:34:07Speaker 00

  How do they hate the team they lost?

• 1:34:09Speaker 01

  Because they, I mean, they fight, they're sore losers, they're rough on the field.

• 1:34:12Mark Gagnon?

  All of a sudden, we all know about Argentina in history.

• 1:34:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:16Mark Gagnon?

  We ain't know about that shit before.

• 1:34:17Speaker 00

  Oh, our races they were.

• 1:34:18Mark Gagnon?

  We ain't know none of that shit.

• 1:34:19Speaker 00

  Son, I'll be honest with you, there wasn't a single Span- Spanish fan in that motherfucker.

• 1:34:25Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:34:26Speaker 00

  The whole thing was Argentina and then people who hate Argentina. Like, there was maybe one section where I saw a lot of Spaniards and they had some drums going.

• 1:34:35Mark Gagnon?

  Bruh.

• 1:34:36Speaker 00

  Outside of that, it was white and blue, everybody, and then just people who hate Argentina.

• 1:34:42Mark Gagnon?

  I know there was that many Argentinians here.

• 1:34:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:34:44Mark Gagnon?

  Like, I was walking around New York, I'm like, where the fuck's, where the Spanish?

• 1:34:48Speaker 00

  I think it's like when you see people wearing a Steph Curry jersey. They're not really Golden State fans.

• 1:34:52Mark Gagnon?

  They're Messi fans.

• 1:34:53Speaker 00

  They're Messi fans.

• 1:34:54Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 1:34:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I assumed it was, because I was like, ain't no way. And the vibes there, it wasn't what I imagined a football game would be. Like, I thought it was gonna be a lot of chants going the whole time. Like, I was, maybe it's just Argentine fans, they don't really do that as much.

• 1:35:10Speaker 01

  No, they, they be chanting.

• 1:35:11Speaker 00

  So they tried to get some chants going, but you couldn't really feel it.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:14Speaker 00

  Where it's like...

• 1:35:15Mark Gagnon?

  It's like Miles chants, you know, whatever Miles would say, they, they be chanting like that.

• 1:35:19Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 1:35:20Speaker 01

  It's like that?

• 1:35:21Speaker 00

  Fuck are you saying?

• 1:35:23Speaker 03

  Yo, Al peed in a cup illegally at a theater in New York City.

• 1:35:27Mark Gagnon?

  I said that myself!

• 1:35:28Speaker 03

  Man, that out.

• 1:35:30Mark Gagnon?

  See, now you snitching on a black man, damn, bro!

• 1:35:34Speaker 01

  I think, I think the price point probably made the, the chanting a little hard, if I had to guess.

• 1:35:38Speaker 00

  Got it.

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Like, the folks that are spending 10 grand a ticket?

• 1:35:41Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:35:42Speaker 01

  I don't know if those are the chanting types.

• 1:35:43Speaker 00

  There are some people in my comments upset that I went because of the cost of it. Like I paid.

• 1:35:51Speaker 00

  I don't care about soccer that much to pay for that shit.

• 1:35:54Mark Gagnon?

  Why would they be upset?

• 1:35:55Speaker 00

  Nah, I don't know, cuz it's like a ridiculous amount of money to go to these games.

• 1:36:00Mark Gagnon?

  Damn, it's like going to a Super Bowl, it's like, yeah, you know you're gonna spend a ridiculous amount of money.

• 1:36:04Speaker 00

  I don't think anybody was upset that I went to the Knicks finals.

• 1:36:08Mark Gagnon?

  Ah, they're like, oh, you don't care about this, and you're taking up a spot that somebody else could have had.

• 1:36:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but you weren't really taking a spot. I wasn't really taking a spot. You know what I mean? Shout out Kalshi, bro. Had some opening in the booth, and it was, it was fire. It was stacked, bro. We had Martha Stewart up in there.

• 1:36:27Mark Gagnon?

  Oh.

• 1:36:27Speaker 00

  Martha's the GOAT.

• 1:36:28Mark Gagnon?

  You chopping it with Martha?

• 1:36:29Speaker 00

  Of course I chopped it up, man. She was vibes. And then I was, Martha came back to chop it up with me, and I had just eaten a blackberry, or I put it in my mouth, and my wife was like, there's a whole disease with fucking fruits and vegetables. Why would you be eating blackberries off of this tray? And I was like, I didn't know there's a disease of fruits and vegetables. So I spit it back in my hand. Second I turned away to go throw it in the garbage, Martha's coming over trying to chop it up. But I got a mashed blackberry in my hand, so I'm like, I gotta get this shit out of my hand before I can have this conversation like.

• 1:36:58Mark Gagnon?

  You weren't all white, too.

• 1:36:59Speaker 00

  Bro, it was bad. So, uh, fumbled that, but she's the fucking bomb. I also have no clue how to operate in a box. Like, I, when, when you're in a box, you get a ticket still with a seat.

• 1:37:11Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:37:11Speaker 00

  So I'm trying to be a rule follower cuz I don't know how to operate in a box. So I got to my seat, and it's Myles Garrett and Khloe Kim. Myles Garrett is the NFL player, and Khloe Kim is, I think she's a professional snowboarder.

• 1:37:23Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 1:37:24Speaker 00

  They're a couple. Myles Garrett's huge.

• 1:37:27Mark Gagnon?

  And Myles Garrett shirtless.

• 1:37:29Speaker 00

  I gotta, I gotta, you know, I go, Miles, I said, I said, I said, hey, man, pleasure to meet you. Um, this, this is, look, this was my seats.

• 1:37:41Speaker 00

  I'm like, God, I don't wanna get in trouble over here. I don't know, I don't know, I don't wanna get in trouble.

• 1:37:45Mark Gagnon?

  Okay.

• 1:37:45Speaker 00

  Okay? Serena Williams walking in with her husband, has started Reddit. I almost had to, you know, be like, yo, you caused a lot of pain for me on this fucking acting, man. You know what I mean? Like, I almost had to check him on that shit. Turns out he's fucking 6'6 Armenian. I was like, alright, man, you got it.

• 1:38:00Mark Gagnon?

  Man, he, he would have said.

• 1:38:02Speaker 01

  Serena to take you.

• 1:38:03Speaker 00

  Serena might have been able to do that. Might have been able to do that. Anyway, so I say, I say, hey, guys, like, you know, we gotta be in our seats. We gotta follow the rules. It was Zeus's law. And so they're looking at me confused because they've probably been in boxes. And the rule of boxes is you sit wherever like this is this family dinner. There's no assigned seats. So we go, we go, okay, blah, blah, blah. You know, you gotta go there and it's better seats. By the way, I didn't want to take the better seat. It was in the front row.

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  Oh, wow.

• 1:38:31Speaker 00

  So I'm in the last row. I'm like, I don't want to take anybody's good seat. So they switched with us and they didn't really seem that excited about it. And I realized why is because the front row was the only row getting blasted by sun. And it was like a hundred degrees.

• 1:38:46Speaker 01

  Oh, shit.

• 1:38:47Speaker 00

  Bro, I started to feel bad, man. Chloe was going to get water bottles and putting it to Miles's neck. Miles, the only black guy in the box, so he's absorbing the sun from everybody else.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  And she's a snowboarder. She's used to cold conditions.

• 1:39:00Speaker 00

  She's Asian. They hate the sun. Like, it is, it is, it's the worst nightmare. So I felt bad. And after the first hydration break, I was like, yo, guys, I didn't realize what I was doing. If you guys want to switch back, you guys absolutely can.

• 1:39:13Speaker 01

  But now.

• 1:39:15Speaker 00

  What do you mean now? They said, are you sure?

• 1:39:20Speaker 00

  They hit me with the polite, yes, we'll do that immediately. So we switched back and let them go.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  Was that a real offer or you were just?

• 1:39:26Speaker 00

  It was a real genuine offer. Like I spoke to him about, I was like, yo, I feel bad. Like we didn't know the rules here. Like, and it seems like we wanted the shade. Like they probably think we wanted the shade, not that I don't know how to exist in these spaces. So, uh, so it was just vibes.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  That's all. You gotta become an official soccer fan.

• 1:39:45Speaker 00

  I like it, bro. I like it. I like soccer.

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  You need a Premier League team.

• 1:39:49Speaker 00

  Yeah. Who do I go with?

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  FC Barcelona.

• 1:39:52Speaker 00

  But that's not Premier League. I was always a Barca fan.

• 1:39:55Speaker 01

  I don't care.

• 1:39:57Speaker 00

  Always love Barca.

• 1:39:58Mark Gagnon?

  You don't even watch this shit.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  I think you need to get, I think we need the audience to give you a pitch.

• 1:40:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, who should I go with, man?

• 1:40:04Speaker 01

  Like, I've seen a bunch of flow charts about like, if you like this, if you want to win trophies, if you like history, da-da-da-da, and it tells you what team you're on.

• 1:40:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:40:10Speaker 01

  But I think you just need to get pitched from the audience.

• 1:40:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me which team I should get, guys. I gotta know.

• 1:40:15Speaker 01

  I feel like you're a Man U fan.

• 1:40:17Speaker 00

  But isn't Man U like the frontrunners?

• 1:40:21Speaker 01

  Not lately.

• 1:40:23Speaker 00

  Like, I kind of want a Knicks. Like, I want a team with, like, legacy and pride, and then after decades finally wins the championship again.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:40:31Speaker 00

  Is that Arsenal?

• 1:40:33Mark Gagnon?

  Why are you axing him?

• 1:40:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm not, I'm not a Premier League expert, to be honest with you. Arsenal went to the Champions League final, so they're pretty good.

• 1:40:40Speaker 00

  What league expert are you?

• 1:40:41Speaker 01

  None, bro. I'll be leaving, need to see, bro. Maybe some history.

• 1:40:46Speaker 00

  Mark has PTSD from getting one soccer thing wrong.

• 1:40:50Speaker 01

  Yo, soccer fans are ruthless, bro.

• 1:40:52Speaker 00

  All we do is get shit wrong. That's the mythology of our podcast. So just say some wrong shit, who cares?

• 1:40:59Mark Gagnon?

  No, but soccer fans are ruthless.

• 1:41:00Speaker 00

  How? What happened?

• 1:41:01Mark Gagnon?

  So, we watching the game, Spain versus France, Mark, David, they go for France, I'm going for Spain. I'm talking shit. I'm a shit-talking New Yorker. I don't give a fuck about this shit. They were salty.

• 1:41:12Speaker 01

  What did I do?

• 1:41:13Mark Gagnon?

  They was getting in their feeling, David was upset.

• 1:41:16Speaker 00

  David takes it serious. David, get in here, David!

• 1:41:19Mark Gagnon?

  Ever since then, Mark been chipping at me, like, just every time.

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  Nah, nah, you guys were getting a little...

• 1:41:24Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, he be just chipping at me. I'm like, "Bro, I'm rooting for my girl. I don't care."

• 1:41:28Speaker 01

  Bro, I said, "Alex..."

• 1:41:29Mark Gagnon?

  Y'all don't need to be sensitive about this shit.

• 1:41:30Speaker 01

  "Alex, you gotta keep your jersey. How far is that? You should keep your jersey."

• 1:41:33Speaker 00

  Mark, Mark is being passive-aggressive now.

• 1:41:35Mark Gagnon?

  He does this fake little shit, and I'm like, "Mark, we know..."

• 1:41:38Speaker 01

  He had the tag on his jersey. I was like, "Bro, you gotta keep that. It's part of World Cup history."

• 1:41:41Mark Gagnon?

  Were you mad because you wear Timu jerseys?

• 1:41:45Speaker 01

  All my jerseys are fake, for the record.

• 1:41:47Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but you don't have to. Like, I don't care about this.

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  No, you should keep the jersey from the World Cup.

• 1:41:51Mark Gagnon?

  But soccer fans, you see, they, they really into this shit.

• 1:41:54Speaker 01

  I want you to be a fan.

• 1:41:56Mark Gagnon?

  Y'all need to be nicer, bruh. That's all I'm saying. It's not that serious.

• 1:41:59Speaker 01

  My point was that I want you to be a fan. You have a jersey from a team. And I'm like, "Bro, you should become a fan forever. Keep the jersey for the next World Cup, and then you have the OGs."

• 1:42:08Mark Gagnon?

  Yo.

• 1:42:09Speaker 00

  Hold on, I'm trying to find out.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  Forgive and forget, man.

• 1:42:11Mark Gagnon?

  Forgive and forget.

• 1:42:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love when Al, you know Al's been drinking. Oh my god. He's in the group. It's just fucking.

• 1:42:17Speaker 00

  Son, I'm getting random shots at me because y'all mad y'all team lost.

• 1:42:21Speaker 01

  Random shots, he's out.

• 1:42:22Speaker 00

  Oh, this is the thing that fucking infuriate. Here we go, here we go, here we now we getting into it. Um, David about to be Ecuadorian again, was that it, Miles?

• 1:42:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:42:33Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, him, you were denying your fucking Spaniard history and then all of a sudden your team lost. So now it's like, oh, I'm a Spanish fan now.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Exactly, that's how the World Cup goes. You just kind of root for a team as they go.

• 1:42:45Mark Gagnon?

  He was about to fight me when we was. Like outside, he had to come over to me and apologize.

• 1:42:52Speaker 01

  Nah.

• 1:42:52Mark Gagnon?

  I'm still expecting apology from you, man.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  For what?

• 1:42:55Mark Gagnon?

  Christian, you're a Christian or a Catholic.

• 1:42:56Speaker 01

  What'd I do?

• 1:42:58Mark Gagnon?

  You know what you do.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  I put my hand out and said, hey, great game. Then Al goes, I'm a bad winner. And then all the comments flaming him. He's like, what?

• 1:43:05Mark Gagnon?

  Nah, bro, you were being a little, you was being a little sassy, bro. He does this little thing where he's just like.

• 1:43:10Speaker 01

  He, he, he asked if you still had the tag on your jersey.

• 1:43:13Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, out of nowhere.

• 1:43:14Speaker 01

  Cause he was gonna return the jersey and I was like, no, you should keep it.

• 1:43:17Mark Gagnon?

  It should have been four years.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  It's part of the history.

• 1:43:18Mark Gagnon?

  You see?

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:43:19Mark Gagnon?

  He's doing, he's doing this.

• 1:43:21Speaker 01

  Explain, explain, explain.

• 1:43:22Speaker 00

  Bless your heart.

• 1:43:23Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 1:43:24Speaker 00

  You're doing the bless your heart passive aggression.

• 1:43:26Mark Gagnon?

  And I know he does.

• 1:43:26Speaker 01

  And then what did Al say in response? France sucks.

• 1:43:29Speaker 00

  I was like, yeah, they lost.

• 1:43:32Mark Gagnon?

  And no, no, and then he points out a spelling typo.

• 1:43:35Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, I mean, you can't, you, you got, you got to spell it right.

• 1:43:39Mark Gagnon?

  You know you tight, you know you tight when that's the room.

• 1:43:42Speaker 00

  You're still tight right now, bro. Why you still, oh, the hands.

• 1:43:45Mark Gagnon?

  I know, the hands up.

• 1:43:47Speaker 01

  If your distance on the.

• 1:43:48Mark Gagnon?

  And then the next thing you guys are, name a player on the team.

• 1:43:52Speaker 01

  No, I didn't say that. That was David. That was David. That was David.

• 1:43:56Speaker 00

  No, Mark, hold on, I gotta get on that.

• 1:43:57Mark Gagnon?

  He was like, yo, name, name a player on the team. I'm like, bro, I'm just rooting for my wife's team, bro. It's not that serious.

• 1:44:05Speaker 01

  Fire.

• 1:44:05Mark Gagnon?

  They was in their feelings.

• 1:44:06Speaker 00

  Nah, you don't think it's fine.

• 1:44:07Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 1:44:07Speaker 01

  No, a hundred percent. I want everyone to be a soccer fan. Next World Cup, everyone has a team and then as it goes, you pick a new team.

• 1:44:13Speaker 00

  Well, what do you mean? He did it again.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  Wait, what?

• 1:44:18Speaker 00

  He did it again.

• 1:44:20Mark Gagnon?

  I'm so glad this shit is over, bro.

• 1:44:22Speaker 01

  Let me understand.

• 1:44:22Mark Gagnon?

  It almost broke us up, man.

• 1:44:24Speaker 01

  No, hold on a second.

• 1:44:24Mark Gagnon?

  It's love, dude.

• 1:44:25Speaker 00

  You want credit for liking the best team in the last 20 years?

• 1:44:29Speaker 01

  No, no.

• 1:44:30Speaker 00

  You've always liked the best team.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:44:33Speaker 00

  So like, what credit you want?

• 1:44:34Speaker 01

  2010, they were terrible. 2014, they were terrible.

• 1:44:37Speaker 00

  Alright, so you had two World Cups where they weren't the front runners.

• 1:44:39Mark Gagnon?

  When you were five.

• 1:44:40Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Every other one, they in the finals.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  I can't choose where I'm born, bro. We don't get to choose these things. This is just fate. This is Zeus, maybe a France fan.

• 1:44:49Mark Gagnon?

  He was so tight, right?

• 1:44:52Speaker 00

  Why are you angry at Al?

• 1:44:54Speaker 01

  I'm angry that Al's put it on me when I was trying to be supportive.

• 1:44:57Speaker 00

  You were not. You told him to return the jersey.

• 1:44:59Speaker 01

  No, I said, keep it. He was gonna take the jersey off and return it. I was like, no, you gotta keep the jersey because it's fire, it's history.

• 1:45:04Speaker 00

  You, you...

• 1:45:06Speaker 01

  I tried to get him a Spain jersey. I literally had my friend drive from Bensonhurst to try to bring him a Spain jersey. Is that true?

• 1:45:10Mark Gagnon?

  A t-bow, used, smelly jersey. Yes, you did.

• 1:45:14Speaker 01

  From the last World Cup.

• 1:45:15Mark Gagnon?

  You did try.

• 1:45:16Speaker 01

  Because every tournament you go to, you wear the old jersey and then it's like, oh, I've been a fan, so it's all the way back.

• 1:45:20Mark Gagnon?

  This was before Spain bust for its ass. That was, and then it was all a sight to me.

• 1:45:24Speaker 01

  It was before that game. I was like, bro, you gotta represent Spain.

• 1:45:26Speaker 00

  Oh, so you wanted him to be in the loser jersey and then wear it, have the stench of loss carried with him?

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:45:32Speaker 00

  And then it backfired, he won.

• 1:45:34Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:45:34Speaker 00

  And now you're tight.

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:45:37Mark Gagnon?

  You see?

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:45:38Mark Gagnon?

  But I'm glad it's over. We're family now.

• 1:45:40Speaker 00

  Are we though? I feel like Mark is still tight.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  Hey, Al.

• 1:45:44Mark Gagnon?

  I don't know. Maybe I gotta wait four years, run it back or something like that, man. We good. I love you, brother.

• 1:45:51Speaker 01

  It is honestly annoying when he's like flipping it.

• 1:45:54Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:45:54Speaker 01

  And I'm like, bro, you gotta keep your jersey. He goes, man, why are you so tight? And I'm like, dude, so...

• 1:45:59Mark Gagnon?

  That's not how to come away. It's fine.

• 1:46:00Speaker 00

  The annoying thing is Al is so blatantly fake.

• 1:46:04Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:46:05Speaker 00

  And...

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  And I want him to be real.

• 1:46:06Speaker 00

  No, you don't.

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  No, you need to keep the jersey.

• 1:46:09Mark Gagnon?

  You be mad.

• 1:46:10Speaker 00

  No, you don't.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Wait, why?

• 1:46:11Mark Gagnon?

  You mad that other shit talking New Yorker about some shit I don't give a fuck about?

• 1:46:14Speaker 00

  I don't know if you want him to be real or not, but you wanted to acknowledge that he's being fake.

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  No. I want him to become a Spain fan.

• 1:46:22Speaker 00

  No, you don't.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  And then every World, why would I not want this?

• 1:46:24Speaker 00

  No, you won't.

• 1:46:25Speaker 01

  Every World Cup that goes forward, we're all fans of a team. I don't understand.

• 1:46:29Speaker 00

  I want to help you here.

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  No, no, don't help me, don't help me, don't help me.

• 1:46:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, but once you start doing the fucking.

• 1:46:40Speaker 01

  What do I want for Al?

• 1:46:42Speaker 00

  That's up to you to do soul searching. You gotta be on the island with Calypso, bro.

• 1:46:46Speaker 01

  I will, I will.

• 1:46:47Mark Gagnon?

  He's gonna be playing poker and start buffing like this.

• 1:46:52Speaker 00

  So, so, so.

• 1:46:55Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:46:55Speaker 00

  In an ideal world, you would like Al to be like, I don't care about any of this shit. Nothing matters to me at all.

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  No. And the way that when the Knicks were winning, Al goes, yo, you need a Knicks jersey. I was like, yes, dude, I think I'm a Knicks fan. Seeing the Knicks win is so cool being in New York. The energy's fire.

• 1:47:11Speaker 00

  Are you Al in this circumstance?

• 1:47:12Speaker 01

  For the Knicks, yeah.

• 1:47:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. So what you're trying to say is Al's not really a fan and he's jumping on the bandwagon of the Spain.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  No, we're all bandwagons. If you don't grow up watching soccer, eventually something gets you and you're like, wow, this is the greatest game ever. Like when you went to the final.

• 1:47:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:24Speaker 01

  And then I want everyone to become a fan of the greatest game.

• 1:47:26Speaker 00

  Yeah. I mean, it is an amazing game.

• 1:47:28Speaker 01

  It's the best.

• 1:47:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:47:30Speaker 01

  And so I want Al to become like a Barcelona fan, go to the game. And then every time they're in the Champions League, it's like, oh, fire. We get to watch an awesome game and actually feel it.

• 1:47:37Speaker 00

  And that's the beautiful benevolent side of you.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  That is the only side I'm texting.

• 1:47:43Speaker 01

  I don't understand how it's a diss to be like, hey, keep your jersey.

• 1:47:46Speaker 00

  But the dichotomy of, well, well, how would you interpret it if it could be a diss? Like, let's say.

• 1:47:52Speaker 01

  If you interpret it as, hey, return it, then it's a diss.

• 1:47:56Speaker 00

  Well, let's say that you got a piece of dialogue written by Christopher Nolan. And Christopher Nolan said, you're a bad guy. How would you mean this exact line as a bad guy?

• 1:48:05Speaker 01

  I would mean you're a fake fan, return your jersey because you don't even care.

• 1:48:09Speaker 00

  Now, do you find it odd that literally everyone but you interpreted that line in that exact?

• 1:48:15Speaker 01

  As I'm saying, I can realize how it's interpreted that way.

• 1:48:18Speaker 00

  But you're saying in your core, you did not mean it in that way.

• 1:48:21Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:48:23Speaker 00

  Why would it take a shot?

• 1:48:25Speaker 03

  I'm not, I'm not a shot taker. I'm not a shot taker.

• 1:48:29Mark Gagnon?

  Did you take the tag off the jersey? Like, that in itself is like pointing it out.

• 1:48:34Speaker 00

  He can still return it. Why are you so worried about the?

• 1:48:36Speaker 03

  No, no, no, you gotta, you gotta resell it the whole time. You can't return it without the tag.

• 1:48:39Mark Gagnon?

  Yes, you can.

• 1:48:40Speaker 00

  David, would you like to chime in here?

• 1:48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, the day after Spain and France played, I, I apologized to you. I apologized to you and I called Mark to apologize for my emotions and he goes, "No, honestly, I wanted you to go harder at Al."

• 1:48:51Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, there we go.

• 1:48:54Speaker 00

  Why lie to our friends? Why lie to our friends?

• 1:48:57Mark Gagnon?

  Now you're just lying to us this whole time. Look how red you are.

• 1:49:02Mark Gagnon?

  You read it in the blogs when he says the M word, so this shit is crazy, bro.

• 1:49:05Speaker 00

  Why lie to our friends?

• 1:49:07Speaker 01

  I don't say anything.

• 1:49:07Speaker 00

  Why can't we just enjoy this moment?

• 1:49:09Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  When in that moment, Al was being annoying.

• 1:49:12Speaker 00

  What was annoying about Al?

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  That he was intentionally trying to rile up me and David.

• 1:49:17Speaker 00

  In what way was he intentionally trying to do it?

• 1:49:19Speaker 01

  He said, "You guys suck."

• 1:49:23Speaker 00

  Damn.

• 1:49:24Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I don't know how you could recover from that.

• 1:49:26Speaker 00

  I know.

• 1:49:26Mark Gagnon?

  It's not like we're watching sports and you root for the team.

• 1:49:29Speaker 01

  Anytime France made a bad pass, we'd go, "Ooh." I was like, "Oh, that's annoying."

• 1:49:34Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, oh, live, you guys were watching it.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:49:37Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but once I know I'm under your skin, oh, I am going to work now.

• 1:49:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  But then after the game, I was like, "Hey, great game, gave you a handshake."

• 1:49:45Mark Gagnon?

  But I know it's fake.

• 1:49:47Speaker 01

  It's not. It's a great game.

• 1:49:49Mark Gagnon?

  Feel it.

• 1:49:50Speaker 01

  I didn't shake your hand.

• 1:49:52Speaker 03

  Well, also, that's David. David is fuming at the smallest.

• 1:49:56Speaker 00

  Why were you not rooting for Spain?

• 1:49:59Speaker 01

  I, I.

• 1:49:59Mark Gagnon?

  He's a traitor.

• 1:50:01Speaker 01

  No, I love Mbappe a lot and I love the French team. They're amazing players. So I wanted, also, if Mbappe got his second World Cup before 30.

• 1:50:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, crazy.

• 1:50:13Mark Gagnon?

  Who's the trans from Euphoria?

• 1:50:16Speaker 00

  Hunter Schafer.

• 1:50:16Mark Gagnon?

  He loves her. Mbappe.

• 1:50:19Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, Mbappe is still your chick?

• 1:50:21Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:50:22Speaker 03

  It's a hell of a choice.

• 1:50:25Speaker 00

  It's not a thousand shits, David. Launch the shits.

• 1:50:29Speaker 03

  Talk about Yamin Lamal's girl.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  Heartbreaking.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Heartbreaker.

• 1:50:33Speaker 01

  If it's true.

• 1:50:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:50:34Speaker 01

  If it's true.

• 1:50:34Speaker 00

  None of this is true, bro. Come on, get out of here.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  But allegedly, she was with a guy three weeks before, like, the World Cup. And was like, "I love you, baby." And then during the celebration, she's with Lamine Yamal.

• 1:50:43Speaker 00

  Man, whatever. Have y'all seen Temptation Island? These Spanish women lead for less.

• 1:50:49Speaker 00

  Okay, shout out Montoya. Montoya knows.

• 1:50:51Mark Gagnon?

  Montoya?

• 1:50:52Speaker 00

  Montoya know. Montoya knows what these Spanish women will do, given the right circumstance. And it's not even for the, you know, best player in the world, they're the best young player in the world. So, come on, chill out with all that.

• 1:51:03Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, he's up there.

• 1:51:04Speaker 00

  Is he not the best young player in the world?

• 1:51:06Mark Gagnon?

  Lamine?

• 1:51:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:51:06Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:07Speaker 00

  You said he's not? No, I said he is.

• 1:51:09Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, yeah, yeah. No, he is.

• 1:51:11Speaker 00

  He's the best young player?

• 1:51:11Mark Gagnon?

  I was gonna say, he ain't really show out in the World Cup. Cause they be talking about what he's doing in Europe, but he ain't show out in the World Cup.

• 1:51:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, in the final.

• 1:51:21Mark Gagnon?

  Like, he came in with a hamstring injury.

• 1:51:22Speaker 00

  I thought he was doing work.

• 1:51:25Mark Gagnon?

  He only had one goal and then zero assists.

• 1:51:27Speaker 00

  Oh, in the whole World Cup?

• 1:51:28Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:29Speaker 00

  Oh, in the final, though, I thought that he was doing like, there were moments in the second half where I thought that he was kinda like, uh, fading from the moment, let's say, if I was to be hypercritical. But like, they were working through him and he was, he was guarded well, it seemed, and he was like, kinda creating opportunities. It's not like Spain didn't, Spain could've won that game 5-0, given the amount of opportunities. Like, the goalie did an unbelievable job. Like, unfucking, you didn't think so?

• 1:51:55Mark Gagnon?

  He had one good save. Every other, every, every other-

• 1:51:59Speaker 00

  Every save off a header?

• 1:51:59Mark Gagnon?

  Shot was right at him. The free kick save was amazing.

• 1:52:02Speaker 00

  Sure, sure, sure. But still, like, we're talking about save off of a header, right? Like, that ball can go anywhere. Also, the whole tournament. If you count the whole tournament, I mean-

• 1:52:10Mark Gagnon?

  Debo conceded like, three goals a game in that tournament.

• 1:52:13Speaker 00

  Oh, are they talking about the Spanish goalkeeper?

• 1:52:14Mark Gagnon?

  No, no, no. You're talking about Argentina.

• 1:52:16Speaker 00

  I'm talking about, was it Emmy Martinez or whatever his name is?

• 1:52:18Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:19Speaker 00

  But like, no, no, Spanish, Spanish goalkeeper too. I know, Spain, this is what we were saying, uh, before, like, he's just realized how far behind the US is. And low-key, everybody's far behind. You know, cause like, Argentina looks far behind. Like, Spain made Argentina look like the US. Like, literally, like, Spain's, the midfield play, and I say this as a complete soccer casual, complete and utter control. Whenever they got the ball, it was either direct pass or one touch. When the guys in the US midfield get the ball, it feels like it takes five seconds just to corral it before they then start. And you don't have a chance to build a play if you don't have the midfield setting it up. It's like having a point guard with no handle in basketball. That's what it felt like.

• 1:53:04Speaker 00

  Like, when you have a point guard that can get the ball up and then set up the offense, you're in really good position for your star players to score. If you can't get the ball up, how you gonna get in the hands of your star players?

• 1:53:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:16Speaker 00

  And like-

• 1:53:18Speaker 00

  I don't know, maybe that's just a specific Spain thing, but.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  What's interesting, in my experience, it falls apart for America at like seventeen, eighteen years old. Like, from like fourteen to fifteen, you can get a collection of American players to play some of the best clubs in Europe and like, it's competitive or they win. It's when you go to college, you're trying to play in the MLS, that's when it falls apart. You get a young Laminya Mall playing for Barcelona when he's what, seventeen?

• 1:53:42Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:42Speaker 01

  Sixteen?

• 1:53:43Mark Gagnon?

  Fifteen, actually, yeah.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  Fifteen?

• 1:53:45Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:45Speaker 01

  So he gets called to the first team at fifteen years old. By the time he's twenty, he's had five years on the greatest team.

• 1:53:49Speaker 00

  Against like real pros.

• 1:53:50Speaker 01

  Against real pros. Whereas you have our guys spending a year in college, maybe they go play in MLS and it's like, ugh, you don't have the, you don't have the level.

• 1:53:58Speaker 00

  But how does that affect the touch you have?

• 1:54:01Mark Gagnon?

  The, the issue is that I think in the youth system in America, they focus more on athleticism and like durability rather than technique. Like, like Brazilians, when they grow up, they play indoors, like five aside. They play food stall.

• 1:54:14Speaker 01

  It's also a big focus on game winning. Like, when you're in the youth program in America, it's like you want to be on the best team that wins all the time and that often can be from a coach that has a great system, but not necessarily developing the best individual players.

• 1:54:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:54:26Speaker 01

  And so as a result, like, they'll win games against great competition, but then you get old enough, lose the decision-making and the speed, and then it falls apart.

• 1:54:34Speaker 00

  I mean, I was watching that, the Spanish midfield, none of them seemed like athletes.

• 1:54:39Speaker 01

  Rodri? When you see Rodri, it doesn't look like he's the greatest player in the world.

• 1:54:43Speaker 00

  With no disrespect to them at all.

• 1:54:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:46Speaker 00

  They do not seem like athletes, but they did this thing that like, it doesn't really exist in like the sports that I care about, where simply holding the ball is an act of aggression. Simply holding the ball and making the defense chase you is an act of aggression. Because you're not only making, you're not really making like the defenders chase you, you're making the midfielders run around.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:14Speaker 00

  And now those same guys have to go set up offense after they're fucking exhausted from chasing you around because you've been holding seventy percent of possession or whatever. Like, sometimes this works in football, like American football, but it's different because the defense and offense are completely different players. So, yeah, your defense can be exhausted and then the offense can like, you know, impose their will. But like, once the offense comes back on, they're fresh because they've been sitting down the whole time. Soccer's not like that. That midfield gotta play fucking deep. And then the second shit changes, now you're just out of breath. You finally get the ball back and then you have to go and start to mount this comeback?

• 1:55:52Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:53Speaker 00

  I thought it was so impressive. And even though there was no scoring, just the way that they would like methodically build up a play. And then use their offensive like one-on-one players, the way that they use Lamine or Nico to set up offensive strikes. Yeah, maybe they didn't execute, but won. They had 20.

• 1:56:10Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:10Speaker 00

  It felt like they had 10 that were like legit, this could go in. Maybe that's a lot, seven, I don't know, but like it was beautiful to see.

• 1:56:18Mark Gagnon?

  So can we talk about the corruption because everybody's talking about that? I don't know the game well enough to be like, oh yeah, that should have been called this and wasn't called.

• 1:56:27Speaker 00

  Let me explain it. We lent Argentina $100 billion to stabilize their economy. We need to make sure that they made that money back.

• 1:56:36Speaker 00

  So they made the final and now they made enough money where they can pay us back the interest or whatever the vig is on that money. I think it's that simple.

• 1:56:43Mark Gagnon?

  Fire there. But I mean, it's, this has been the case for a while now.

• 1:56:46Speaker 00

  Well, we've been bailing them out for a long time, you know, this is what we do.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Argentina is the only team to make it to the semifinal without playing a top 10 team.

• 1:56:54Speaker 00

  This one and other times or just this?

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  This one is the only one. The group stage was super easy.

• 1:57:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:00Speaker 01

  Egypt, Cape Verde, great teams, especially Egypt, but not a top 10 team.

• 1:57:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:04Speaker 01

  Whereas Spain is playing France, Portugal, like they're playing some of the best teams in the world.

• 1:57:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:09Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 1:57:10Speaker 00

  I mean, America, if we beat Belgium, had to play Spain, what the fuck is going on? How do we have it at home? How do we not have the easiest bracket? That's insane.

• 1:57:16Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:57:17Speaker 00

  Like everybody made this big deal about like Trump asking Balogun to be brought back on. It's like, put us in the fucking right bracket. Portugal, Spain, France aren't playing any.

• 1:57:26Mark Gagnon?

  Real corruption.

• 1:57:27Speaker 00

  Real corruption.

• 1:57:28Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. Yeah, we didn't, we didn't corrupt.

• 1:57:30Speaker 01

  There is a conspiracy theory going around about Argentina.

• 1:57:32Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  So this is a couple of little layers here. Scaloni, the coach for Argentina, arrives at the stadium and gets off the team bus in tears.

• 1:57:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57:41Speaker 01

  Allegedly. Messi misses every single shot in the warm-up. I saw that. Messi's family didn't come to the stadium, allegedly.

• 1:57:50Speaker 07

  Whoa.

• 1:57:50Speaker 01

  The entire squad walked out of the dressing room with their heads down, completely shaken. Enzo and Licha are both seen crying, allegedly. Messi is heard saying, "Let's forget about everything, let's just play, forget about everything." Everyone around him looks very somber. Scaloni abandons the tactical approach that had worked throughout the tournament, leaving the midfield exposed against a team whose midfield is their best strength. Argentina has zero shots in 90 minutes. And Latoro, one of their biggest attacking weapons, never comes in. Cuti Romero and Lisandro Martinez asked to be substituted because of injuries, yet, according to this, neither of them look to be in obvious pain. They're two toughest players in the tournament. Spain commits over 20 fouls without receiving a card.

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  Allegedly. Cuca somehow escapes a red card after covering his mouth, which is bullshit.

• 1:58:32Speaker 07

  Bullshit.

• 1:58:33Speaker 01

  Spain's celebration feels subdued, and they're suggesting that somehow they were talked to before the game.

• 1:58:38Speaker 00

  Saying?

• 1:58:39Speaker 01

  Hey, you guys gotta give it up.

• 1:58:42Speaker 00

  This is...

• 1:58:42Speaker 01

  This is the conspiracy.

• 1:58:44Speaker 00

  Can I just say something?

• 1:58:45Speaker 01

  I don't believe this, I'm just floating the conspiracy.

• 1:58:47Speaker 00

  This is the most Argentine conspiracy that could ever be concocted. Because it plays into their arrogance. The only way that they could lose is if they had to give it up.

• 1:59:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:59:03Speaker 00

  Like, the only way they could conceptualize their team being outplayed is if they said, "Okay, we'll just let them beat us." There's no fucking way.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  They're saying that the Malvinas protests that they did, like, holding up the sign that, like, the Falkland Islands belonged to Argentina, they said that was in contempt of FIFA's official rules. They should have been fined and suspended. They should have been fined, so they were told that, like, "Hey, you guys gotta pull out these players." The two players holding the sign were the two guys that were subbed off.

• 1:59:26Speaker 07

  Oh, shit.

• 1:59:26Speaker 00

  How, how, uh, how much corruption exists in soccer at the highest level?

• 1:59:33Speaker 07

  It seems like a lot.

• 1:59:34Speaker 00

  Like, real corruption, not like behind-the-scenes bullshit.

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  There was the whole Setblatter thing, um, you know, rewarding the World Cups to Qatar and Russia. And there was later found out that he was bribed for it.

• 1:59:46Speaker 00

  So to me, that's not, that's corruption, but it's not corruption that affects play.

• 1:59:50Speaker 01

  For like match fixing?

• 1:59:51Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:53Speaker 00

  Well, there are examples in the past.

• 1:59:55Mark Gagnon?

  I feel like if you don't call a foul, that's clearly a foul, that's corruption during the game.

• 2:00:02Speaker 00

  That it would be corruption. Like this would be the argument they would make for the NBA. That the NBA controls which refs go to which games. It's not random. And that they might throw in a ref to extend a series because it makes more money for everybody involved. So that to me, I'm like, okay, this is corruption that affects the way the outcome of the game. Playing in Qatar is to me, it's like, yeah, it sucks, but sucks for everybody.

• 2:00:23Mark Gagnon?

  It seemed like every single Argentine game, people were pointing out calls that weren't made. Like fouls that they committed that weren't being called. But then this this theory was saying that, hey, Spain's calls weren't getting called. So I'm like, it's really just who makes the story.

• 2:00:41Speaker 00

  Did you really think that Argentina wasn't trying?

• 2:00:44Speaker 01

  That's the allegation. Argentina's the worst team to make the final in my lifetime. Like truly.

• 2:00:50Speaker 00

  Yeah. So like.

• 2:00:51Speaker 01

  They were never going to win that game.

• 2:00:52Speaker 00

  They got there luckily, right? Like they were getting outplayed in most of their games. And then in the last few minutes, they find a way to pull it off. So like they luckily got there. And then they went against the best team in the world. Like, I don't think anybody would question that, right? Sorry, Mark.

• 2:01:10Speaker 00

  But it is, right? Are they not the best team in the world? It's like unbelievable. So that's what happens. Now, what, I mean, it was miraculous that they were able to like stay in it. I think America would have done better.

• 2:01:24Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, no.

• 2:01:26Speaker 00

  Better?

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  But also like stay in it. I mean, like it was one nil and I don't, the game never felt close. Like, I don't think Argentina were ever going to win that game, even with the late pushes at the last five minutes.

• 2:01:37Speaker 00

  They could barely get the ball past the midfield.

• 2:01:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were never going to win that.

• 2:01:41Speaker 00

  What I didn't understand is like, why, and I was texting the group and also Mark about this, like, why not feed it to Messi every single time and just let him do something?

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  That's a lot to ask for.

• 2:01:51Speaker 03

  A thirty eight year old Messi against like the best defense in the world.

• 2:01:53Speaker 00

  It's the last game you're gonna play. Leave it on the fucking pitch.

• 2:01:56Speaker 03

  Even though, like.

• 2:01:58Speaker 00

  He was just shut down. If you look at every time he gets the ball, there's three guys pressing hard. Go. You're already doing nothing. You can't do less than nothing.

• 2:02:07Speaker 00

  It's not like they were doing anything. It's not like they were getting shots on goal or anything. If I'm not getting anything at all, what it felt like is since it was zero zero, they're like, all right, guys, we're gonna play for penalties.

• 2:02:19Speaker 03

  Certainly after the red card, that was their.

• 2:02:21Speaker 00

  Even before the red card, they, I felt like they just submitted. They were like, all right, guys, we're gonna play for penalties because once we're in penalties, it's even again. Cause they're absolutely whooping us.

• 2:02:28Speaker 03

  They're favored in our.

• 2:02:29Speaker 00

  Okay, maybe they're favored. But like in my mind, I'm like, it's zero zero. We can't get the ball past the midfield. Just give it to Messi. Let him draw attention because naturally he's gonna draw more attention than the other players. And then see what happens with that attention. Why the fuck wouldn't you at least try that?

• 2:02:46Speaker 03

  The issue is that they weren't even given the opportunity to collect the ball and then give it to Messi. You know what I mean?

• 2:02:50Speaker 00

  Like building out of the back.

• 2:02:51Speaker 03

  If Spain lose the ball, they're gonna press you high. They're not gonna sit back and then let you like.

• 2:02:56Speaker 00

  So then have Messi pull back to the midfield.

• 2:02:58Speaker 03

  That's what he was doing.

• 2:02:59Speaker 00

  Pull further back. Get in the goal. Get in the goal. Like literally hand the ball off to him at the goal and then just let him cook on the way up. Who gives a, this is your last game. I'm sorry. Like, I know that there's a lot of people who love Messi, etc. But like, if I knew that that's my last game. If, if Jordan thought that it was his last ever game playing for your international team in a World Cup final. Do you think he's walking around counting blades of grass for fucking a hundred and twenty minutes like Messi was? No, give me a rock every single fucking time.

• 2:03:32Mark Gagnon?

  But that is how he plays them. Like, that's how Messi plays. He just stands there and then eventually he gets into the game once the ball gets near him. But when, when the ball's not near, I think they don't do shit.

• 2:03:42Speaker 00

  Well, he need to be there, bro. I'm sorry. Like, I think you need a ball hog a little bit. Unless they told him to stop. Now, would, I mean, listen, if we're gonna get into it, would Ronaldo let that happen?

• 2:03:53Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:03:55Speaker 00

  Would he let it happen?

• 2:03:56Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, that's your guy.

• 2:03:57Speaker 01

  He would be probably a little more tenacious, certainly. He'd be at least more mad. He would yell at his teammates more.

• 2:04:05Speaker 00

  Get in there, make it happen.

• 2:04:07Speaker 01

  There's a famous match fix, Argentina, Peru.

• 2:04:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, but wasn't this about both were trying to lose or something?

• 2:04:13Speaker 01

  That was a different one. That was Algeria. They knocked out West Germany and Austria.

• 2:04:17Speaker 00

  So what happened with Argentina, Peru?

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Argentina needs to beat Peru by four goals to overtake Brazil to get to the final. They have to score four goals. The way that the brackets were set up, it was on a differential. Argentina was ruled by a military dictatorship that wanted to win the World Cup at home. The World Cup's being played in Argentina. Dictator Jorge Vida, Fidella, visited the Peruvian dressing room before the match. And then, something happens. Argentina suddenly achieved exactly the huge victory that they needed. And then later accounts allege diplomatic, financial, or political pressure on Peru to throw the game. Fire.

• 2:04:51Speaker 00

  That's leadership. That's leadership. Not, oh, I'm gonna get Ballagun back in the game and then we still get our ass kicked. This is leadership.

• 2:05:03Speaker 01

  Or Diego Maradona putting sedatives in the goalkeeper's water.

• 2:05:06Mark Gagnon?

  Yep. The three were.

• 2:05:08Speaker 00

  Is that real?

• 2:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, he admitted to it. I think in like 2004 or 2005, right?

• 2:05:11Mark Gagnon?

  That's fire. That's, you really want to win. That is.

• 2:05:15Speaker 00

  If you're not cheating, you're not trying.

• 2:05:17Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, bro.

• 2:05:18Speaker 00

  You're at, this is.

• 2:05:20Speaker 01

  These are rats we're dealing with. This is bad for the game.

• 2:05:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, but rats don't die. Rats will be here. They'll live through a nuclear holocaust.

• 2:05:27Mark Gagnon?

  You watch a sport where they fake cry on the ground to get a call. Like, where's the intensity?

• 2:05:32Speaker 01

  Who's the MVP of the league in the NBA?

• 2:05:34Mark Gagnon?

  What?

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  Shay. He flops every possession. It's the same thing in every other sport.

• 2:05:38Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, we don't respect him. We complain about it.

• 2:05:40Speaker 01

  In football and basketball, you exaggerate contact. It's.

• 2:05:44Mark Gagnon?

  And we don't like it. It's, we call it out. You guys are like, oh, this is the best.

• 2:05:49Speaker 01

  It's exclusive to soccer. It's not.

• 2:05:51Mark Gagnon?

  It really is.

• 2:05:52Speaker 00

  They get defensive about this shit.

• 2:05:53Mark Gagnon?

  I know.

• 2:05:54Speaker 01

  I was taught as a kid to always die.

• 2:05:56Mark Gagnon?

  That's why I kept doing it.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  I remember I had a practice before with this big tournament in Germany and I got hit and I didn't go down. And my coach stops the practice and goes, if you ever get hit like that again, you fucking go down. You get a penalty.

• 2:06:06Mark Gagnon?

  Really?

• 2:06:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Because if you're trying to win the game, you got hit, go down, get the penalty. We're trying to win this game.

• 2:06:11Mark Gagnon?

  So they taught you to suck meat.

• 2:06:14Speaker 00

  Like that's the thing I don't get about it.

• 2:06:16Mark Gagnon?

  Part of this, part of being a great player, you gotta be an actor. It's part of being a great soccer player, you gotta be an actor.

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  Lemina Mall, like he sees that Dini is going up for the kick and he jumps in the way to draw the foul and get the penalty.

• 2:06:27Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but I'm just saying, oh, they all do it, but that's the fact that it's part of the game.

• 2:06:32Speaker 00

  Not Holland.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  Holland doesn't do that shit. Yeah, he does, that's fire.

• 2:06:36Speaker 00

  And he gets buckets.

• 2:06:37Mark Gagnon?

  Well, I told you, he's gonna be the greatest.

• 2:06:38Speaker 01

  But he fucked up. Because in the Premier League this year, a player headbutted him, he doesn't go down. If that player were suspended on Arsenal, Gabriel Magalhães, they probably wouldn't have won the Premier League title.

• 2:06:48Speaker 00

  But that's a if, that's a hypothetical, yeah.

• 2:06:50Speaker 01

  No, that's a very, very real situation.

• 2:06:52Mark Gagnon?

  But who wants to win like that? You wanna win on your feet.

• 2:06:55Speaker 00

  I won the Premier League because I pretended to get knocked out.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, you would rather win by putting sedatives in a goalkeeper's bottle than diving one game. But doesn't every sport have that to an extent? Like even like not drawing fouls, but like if someone has the ball, you foul them to like put them at the line. To then shoot. It's like, all right, well now you're just winning, who can shoot the best free throw?

• 2:07:13Speaker 00

  Yeah, but we think that that sucks too.

• 2:07:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. We never say like this is a good part of the game.

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  But it just is.

• 2:07:20Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but you guys don't point it out that it's a bad part of the game.

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  I think it's bad.

• 2:07:25Speaker 00

  Do you?

• 2:07:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:26Speaker 00

  You're embarrassed, you're embarrassed by it. But you're, you're being defensive and you're.

• 2:07:31Speaker 01

  To lose on a dive, I would be pissed, I'd be like. Well, now with VAR, there's no dives.

• 2:07:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, they gave a guy a fucking red for a yellow for diving.

• 2:07:39Speaker 01

  Diving exaggerating, he got hit, right?

• 2:07:42Speaker 00

  The yellow?

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  Kubasi, on the second yellow, he got hit. You think he simulated that? I think he, he definitely exaggerated the flip, but he got hit.

• 2:07:51Speaker 00

  No, that's not the one I'm talking about. What are you talking about? They gave someone a yellow in the final for faking a fall completely, I think it was an Argentine player.

• 2:07:58Speaker 01

  Oh no, they gave Enzo his first yellow card for dissent. Yeah, he was yelling at the ref, right? He was yelling at the ref.

• 2:08:03Speaker 00

  Oh, really?

• 2:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, it wasn't diving.

• 2:08:05Speaker 00

  Oh, they did a review and it was like completely fake. No, it wasn't even Enzo, it was a different guy.

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  Are you talking about the game against the?

• 2:08:11Speaker 00

  No, there's one that I was just at, like it was a complete dive.

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  The Switzerland, Argentina one. Switzerland, Argentina, a guy dives and then gets a card for that, sent off.

• 2:08:19Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  And that was bullshit.

• 2:08:20Speaker 00

  Anyway. Look. Soccer's fun.

• 2:08:24Mark Gagnon?

  Last thing.

• 2:08:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:26Mark Gagnon?

  This was funny to me. So Dove has an Argentinean jersey on.

• 2:08:30Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:08:31Mark Gagnon?

  And he's like, yo, I can't fuck with Spain. They kicked my people out in 1492. But then you're rooting for the country that accepted the Nazis.

• 2:08:39Speaker 00

  It's a very difficult situation.

• 2:08:41Mark Gagnon?

  I think that would kind of worse, right?

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  Also, Spain has a Moroccan player.

• 2:08:45Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a very difficult situation.

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  Rock in a hard place, yeah.

• 2:08:50Mark Gagnon?

  But listen. Aren't you going to shoot like, that means this people that come from the descendants of Nazis.

• 2:08:56Speaker 01

  But there's a lot of Jews in Argentina.

• 2:08:59Speaker 01

  So he's like, alright. If I'm gonna go to a country right now, they'd probably be vibing more with Argentina.

• 2:09:05Mark Gagnon?

  1492, so long ago.

• 2:09:07Speaker 00

  1491, 1491.

• 2:09:09Mark Gagnon?

  Whatever, yeah.

• 2:09:10Speaker 01

  What happened in 1492?

• 2:09:11Speaker 00

  Well, no, it's very important because in 1492, Spain becomes a global superpower.

• 2:09:19Speaker 01

  Maybe a coincidence.

• 2:09:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's obviously a complete coincidence. Obviously a complete coincidence that a literally year later, they sail the ocean blue and then dominate all of Central and South America.

• 2:09:30Speaker 01

  Which is bad, maybe that's bad.

• 2:09:32Speaker 00

  Which is bad.

• 2:09:32Speaker 01

  Maybe the Jews would have stopped them, be like, hey, don't do that.

• 2:09:35Mark Gagnon?

  You're in for two right now, too much influence going on.

• 2:09:37Speaker 01

  There's a lot of influence.

• 2:09:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but there's, look, there's a lot of beef, obviously, you know, in Spain, even between like the Moors and the non-Moors.

• 2:09:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the Spanish beef all the time with each other. That's just a part of being Spanish.

• 2:09:49Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:49Speaker 00

  Everybody in Europe does.

• 2:09:51Speaker 01

  The Baenos and the Basque, the Catalonians.

• 2:09:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's part of, it's, we don't get along. That's a very, that's a normal thing out here.

• 2:09:59Mark Gagnon?

  Very American of them.

• 2:10:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:01Speaker 00

  Yes. I feel like we get along better.

• 2:10:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're not trying to succeed all the time.

• 2:10:05Speaker 00

  Because we don't have as individual identities. Like, the only people in America that have that are like Texas.

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  And?

• 2:10:11Speaker 00

  And, oh, New Yorkers. No, New Yorkers.

• 2:10:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yo, yo, relax.

• 2:10:16Speaker 00

  No, New Yorkers don't think that we're separate from America. We think we're the best. Texans in their, part of their ethos is like, we are our own and we could be if we wanted. And you hate to admit it, but like, they could. I think they have like the largest military complex in the world, like including America or something like that. Like it's in, they could easily, I think we would, we played this game before, but like Texas versus any country in Europe, militarily, Texas wins.

• 2:10:46Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but Texas versus the rest of America?

• 2:10:49Speaker 00

  No, no, America wins.

• 2:10:50Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, okay, okay.

• 2:10:51Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 2:10:52Mark Gagnon?

  So just stay in your place.

• 2:10:53Speaker 00

  Of course. And that's what we say to them.

• 2:10:56Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:56Speaker 00

  But like, they're the only ones in America that like, we're not, we don't have to be America, we have our own identity. And they weren't, we had to like pull them in. I forget who went down there, Sam Houston or something like that?

• 2:11:06Speaker 01

  Sounds right.

• 2:11:07Speaker 00

  But like, so yeah, but like in Europe and even within Spain, it's like, the idea of Spain is kind of novel. It's like a new thing for them. There are all these little kingdoms and they're like, all right, well, we want to just fucking like bunch together and then we'll become a country.

• 2:11:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:20Speaker 00

  And that's kind of all of Europe.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, Italy.

• 2:11:23Speaker 00

  Italy, Italy, yo, Italy just became Italy like 10 years ago.

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:28Speaker 00

  Not, not 10 years, but like in the 1900s.

• 2:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:31Speaker 00

  I thought that shit happened in like 1600s. It was like 1978.

• 2:11:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:36Speaker 00

  That's recent.

• 2:11:39Speaker 00

  Like they're Italians in America that like have a lineage to a country that didn't even exist.

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. And now you get why they're all like, oh, I'm Sicilian, I'm Venetian.

• 2:11:48Speaker 00

  Cause you weren't Italian.

• 2:11:51Speaker 00

  I'm from the people of states or whatever like Italy was. When did they become actual Italy? 50 something?

• 2:11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it was like.

• 2:11:58Speaker 00

  56?

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Around Mussolini or after Mussolini?

• 2:12:01Speaker 00

  It was post World War II.

• 2:12:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. That they became like the unified, whatever.

• 2:12:05Speaker 03

  They later became a democratic republic in 1946, but they were a country under the kingdom in 1861.

• 2:12:12Speaker 01

  Still.

• 2:12:13Speaker 03

  But 46 is when.

• 2:12:14Speaker 01

  America's older than them. Yeah. America's older than Italy, think about that.

• 2:12:18Speaker 03

  Fire.

• 2:12:19Speaker 01

  Respect, right? 250. Respect. Fire.

• 2:12:22Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, I'm glad this World Cup is over.

• 2:12:24Speaker 00

  Why?

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  No. Imagine it just happened all the time, every year.

• 2:12:28Speaker 00

  But then it wouldn't be a special.

• 2:12:29Speaker 01

  And they're expanded to 64 teams, which I'm a big fan of, to be honest.

• 2:12:31Speaker 00

  More teams.

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  Like I want random matchups.

• 2:12:34Speaker 00

  More teams.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:35Speaker 00

  Like what random?

• 2:12:36Speaker 01

  I mean, I want North Korea versus Vatican City.

• 2:12:38Speaker 00

  Fire.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Right? How sick would that be? Like, I want random ass teams you would never expect.

• 2:12:44Speaker 00

  I completely agree about more teams.

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  Maybe Italy can get in.

• 2:12:46Speaker 00

  No, that won't be possible. But like, yeah, more teams, because stretch it out, make it go longer.

• 2:12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:52Speaker 00

  We like this. It's only, it's also one out every four years.

• 2:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:55Speaker 00

  And the perfect timing for Americans. Because we have no sports that we care about for another few months.

• 2:13:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:02Speaker 00

  So this is the gap.

• 2:13:03Mark Gagnon?

  But can it go on for longer with all those other leagues?

• 2:13:06Speaker 00

  Yeah. Them other leagues don't matter. And also, like, it's not like every team manages to make it through. Once you're out, you go play in your other little league.

• 2:13:15Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah. What if you in, so now one team might be missing their best player?

• 2:13:19Speaker 00

  It is what it is, bro. I don't know what to tell you. Like, this is what matters. Fighting for country here.

• 2:13:25Speaker 01

  The league shut down.

• 2:13:26Speaker 00

  No, they keep playing.

• 2:13:27Speaker 01

  There's only one league that's in the summer.

• 2:13:29Mark Gagnon?

  European leagues are off from May to August, but like, South American MLS.

• 2:13:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, MLS.

• 2:13:36Mark Gagnon?

  They pause when they play. Oh.

• 2:13:39Speaker 00

  Whatever. None of them matter. Just do it, do it all through and through.

• 2:13:44Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think we need something.

• 2:13:48Mark Gagnon?

  Right?

• 2:13:48Speaker 00

  Anyway, fellas, we appreciate you. We love you. We see you next week. Peace.

• 2:13:54Mark Gagnon?

  Peace.

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