New Epstein Files More Evil Than We Thought, & Who Is Next Epstein? | Flagrant 692

YERRR Saagar Enjeti is with the boys diving even deeper into the Epstein rabbit hole. And this one gets WILD fast. From Les Wexner and insider trading to foreign intelligence leverage, the questions just keep stacking up. We’re talkin’: – Redactions, false passports, and why the U. S. isn’t investigating – CIA middlemen, Iran-Contra connections, and Epstein’s global network – Dubai ties, financial crashes, and whether Epstein was just a pawn – Trump, Israel, Iran, and who actually benefits from the silence – Missing footage, hacked emails, Zorro Ranch, and the hunt for co-conspirators – Plus: billionaires, press access, and why accountability never reaches the top Is this about justice, or is power protecting itself again? All that and more on this week’s episode of FLAGRANT. INDULGE. 0:00 What did they all say before? Only 2% 5:30 Redactions, Les Wexner & Tax "advice" 9:45 Lord Mandelson, Insider trading + Global elite 11:55 Trafficking women + Only US not investigating 16:23 Insider trading, Blackmail + Foreign Intelligence 19:18 Leverage, False passport + Church Committee 24:52 CIA using middle men, Leverage + 1992 29:44 Les Wexner, Iran-Contra + Birthday "messages" 38:23 Co-conspirators, Dubai connections + Intermediaries 41:33 Epstein wasn't a problem until 2019 + Paperwork error 47:08 Body double? We've been on this + Cabal 51:13 Financial crash = permission slip + Bread & Circus 54:47 Interest in creating chaos, Libya + AOC speech 1:03:33 AOC "answer" on Taiwan, Deep state + Foreign policy 1:12:05 Lutnick lying, Confidence + Handlers? 1:18:42 Trump's, Policy? Access to power 1:28:16 Not looking into Epstein, Loyalty & Power 1:32:30 No more files? 1:36:21 Trump administration, Iran + Israel's interests 1:49:00 Khanna&Massie deserve massive credit + Pressure 1:52:34 Why are the Press afraid? Needing access 1:55:36 Billionaires, Antibiotics + Outing not prosecute 1:59:46 Politicians want to go viral + Accountability 2:05:18 Craziest email everyone missed + Rothschilds 2:10:59 Eugenics, Pizza, Snow White + Coconuts 2:19:01 Shrimps, Check this all + Sulfuric acid 2:22:19 "You are going to be 22" + Book recommendations 2:27:44 Poisonous plant + US Virgin Islands 2:32:20 Why does Epstein hate Trump? Where are Epstein's enemies? 2:34:50 Elon begging, People turning Epstein down + The team 2:40:44 Google exists, Emails hacked + Changing email addresses 2:44:04 Zorro Ranch, SARs not released 2:48:15 Next Epstein, Eugenics + Baby Surrogacy 2:56:29 Justifying their narcissism + In the club 3:01:49 Total control + What does justice look like? 3:04:32 Lesser players, Finances + Where's the footage? 3:09:11 Who is Trump protecting? Distrust in government 3:14:19 Ghislaine swapped? Incentives This episode is sponsored by Kalshi. This episode is sponsored by Sesh. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  What's up everybody, welcome to Flagrant, my show, Tim here with Alex Media, Marky Gags, and we have an illustrious guest with us, okay? Now, Pam Bondi recently said that there's no more files that are gonna come out, and obviously this is a huge hoax, probably pushed by the Dems, probably pushed by those libs, you know?

• 0:21Speaker 01

  What's the Dow out today? Have we checked? Above 50,000.

• 0:24Speaker 00

  Oh, stop the podcast, we don't need to talk about anything. Who cares about a?

• 0:29Speaker 01

  No, no, 49,500.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  This is about to be a short one. Okay, um, Sager, can you please clear some things up here? Because it looks like the administration has maybe told some lies. And the last time you came down here, you broke down this Epstein thing in an absolutely amazing way. Clearly, you've been dedicated to this and not, you know, raising your newborn child. And we greatly appreciate that, so we'd like you to get to the bottom of this. Is it possible that Ms. Bondi is lying?

• 0:59Speaker 01

  Well, let's, let's, let's, let's run it back. So everybody's focused on her most recent disastrous performance where she tries to obfuscate, she tells Thomas Massey, "You're an anti-Trumper, you have TDS," she's saying, "The Dow is at 50,000, what's wrong with all of you for caring about this?" Well, I would say, Ms. Bondi, what's wrong with you? So Griffin, can we go ahead and put up Pam Bondi, "List is on my desk," this is a clip, almost from a year ago, actually, back February 21st, almost exactly one year ago to the day, and here is what she said from the steps of the White House lawn about how the list is on her desk. Let's take a listen.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  DOJ may be releasing the list of Jeffrey Epstein's clients? Will that really happen?

• 1:38Speaker 03

  It's sitting on my desk right now to review, that's been a directive by President Trump, I'm reviewing that, I'm reviewing JFK files, MLK files, that's all in the process of being reviewed because that was done at the directive of the President from all of these agencies.

• 1:53Speaker 02

  So, so have you seen anything that you said, "Oh, my gosh"?

• 1:56Speaker 03

  Not yet.

• 1:59Speaker 01

  Not yet. She said she had a truckload of files that were literally on her desk, right? That's what she said. She had a truckload of files that were on her desk. That's what she said on February 21st from the steps of the White House lawn.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  That was a year ago?

• 2:10Speaker 01

  That was almost exactly one year ago to the day that you and I are all taping.

• 2:14Speaker 00

  If you see the way that she's aged, you must believe there's some horrific stuff going on.

• 2:18Speaker 01

  I will let you all speculate as to that one.

• 2:21Speaker 00

  We meet her on the Rittiteride.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, Rittiteride. No free ads, though. No free ads. Well, you can't even get it because it's a clinical trial. There was also Cash Patel. There's also Cash Patel. Shall we remember Cash Patel on Before Congress? This was not that long ago. Griffin, it's the very first element that we have in the administration.

• 2:42Speaker 00

  Shout out Griffin is here with us.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  No, shout out my executive producer, Griffin, who is here pulling up all the links. One minute in pulls up stuff faster than Joe. This is incredible. Information that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked minors, Cash Patel, the FBI director. Cash money.

• 2:54Speaker 04

  There's no credible information. None. If there were, I would bring the case yesterday that he trafficked to other individuals. And the information we have, again, is limited.

• 3:04Speaker 05

  So the answer is no one?

• 3:07Speaker 04

  For the information that we have.

• 3:10Speaker 05

  In the files?

• 3:11Speaker 04

  In the case file.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  So that was Cash Patel. There's no credible information that Jeffrey Epstein trafficked minors. And I can say unequivocally that that is just like not true. Now, you can try to parse the language around the word of trafficking, but if we stick specifically with the question of abuse from everything that we've learned. So the body of information that I'm working from today is all of the 3 million files that were released by the Department of Justice. As a reminder, there are 3 million more files. In fact, Channel 4 News in the UK just did an expose saying that in fact, there might be only 2% of the files that have been released right now. So 98% of the information hasn't been. But we can say empirically, based on these files, as well as a hacked trove of emails I had access to through my colleagues and friends over at Dropsite News,

• 3:55Speaker 01

  40,000 emails, we can say that that's not true. And I can give you a very simple and easy example. Griffin, it's under Pizza Gate in the spreadsheet, More Than 20 Girls, my own tweet. This was one of my own stories that I broke from one of the hacked emails. emails that I found inside of Jeffrey Epstein's own sent inbox where he sent himself a memo. If you click on that, just so they can read the text message, here's an email he wrote to himself, privileged and confidential, spelling confidential wrong. He says, though I required girls over 18, the results don't reflect it. The feds have spoken to or know of girls between the ages of 16 to 18. If we extrapolate, we should assume there are 20 girls in that age range. That's a message that he wrote to himself in 2007,

• 4:37Speaker 01

  specifically in a sent inbox that was meant eventually for forwarding to his own private.

• 4:41Speaker 00

  And the FBI has access to this information?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Not only does the FBI have access to this, they're saying that the FBI had knowledge of that information. Right? So this is an email directly where he's acknowledging that there are under 20, there are 20 underage women that he specifically, that they knew about from the FBI.

• 4:55Speaker 00

  Are you alleging that Cash?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  New actual information.

• 4:58Speaker 00

  But are you alleging that Cash could be lying under oath?

• 5:00Speaker 01

  Right? Well, that's, that's a very interesting question, isn't it? Right? Under the Congress. Now, is it technically a lie if you never get prosecuted for the lie? If the people who are there are in charge of it? These are interesting questions as to what's actually in power. But if we look at Pam Bondi, her past claims, remember she also had that influencer event handed out? Epstein files, part one. Nobody forced Cash Patel to come on podcasts before the election to say, I'm going to release all this information. Pam Bondi to say, I have the client list on my desk to hand out these client binders. And then basically turn into an instrument of the cover up. And what they've done with this cover up is we've seen a number of files that were redacted specifically against the law. And I think it's interesting to think, last time I was here, this was before the Epstein Files Transparency Act was passed. The Epstein Files Transparency Act specifically says redaction should only apply

• 5:45Speaker 01

  in the case of national security and/or victim identification. And in multiple instances now, we've seen that they have redacted the names of co-conspirators, of names of very powerful individuals. So if we want, you know, one example.

• 5:57Speaker 00

  Could you give an example of national security?

• 5:59Speaker 01

  National security is a very interesting one because that's one that's really up to the DOJ. Oh, sorry, there's one third one, which is active investigation. So one of the reasons why this is really important is that there is currently, this is from Thomas Massey, a theory that they, because of this file release,

• 6:13Speaker 00

  They've started acting investigations.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  actively investigating a number of these cases, which they can now. drag on for a long period, let's say up to three years until Donald Trump is out of office, to make sure that none of the other information comes to light. So even the Files Transparency Act gave them outs, but even within the outs that they had, they had multiple cover-ups, right? So, one of the more egregious example is Les Wexner. Let's go to co-conspirators, Griffin. Let's put the Wexner cover-up. So this is the Deputy Attorney General, Todd Blanch, and here Thomas Massey called him out, where he found a redacted piece inside of the file, labeled "co-conspirator." Thomas Massey says this is a well-known retired CEO. DOJ should unredact this. Why did they redact it? Let's go to the DOJ's explanation. He says, "The document you cite has numerous victim names.

• 6:58Speaker 01

  We have unredacted Wexner's name from the document. His name appears in the file thousands of times. DOJ is hiding nothing." However, that document did not have any victim name on it, not one. And specifically, they decided to redact "co-conspirator" here. Wexner, for those who haven't watched our previous episode, is the source, and some would speculate, the potential originator of the Epstein mythology. So this is a person who signs over power of attorney. He never fully explains his decades-long relationship with Epstein. He gives him the house where eventually some financial makeup, right here in New York City, the infamous Epstein Townhouse, for tens of millions of dollars, the largest townhome, literally, in the entire city. The home is frequented by all these...

• 7:42Speaker 01

  The home is frequented by Israeli prime ministers and all of these other individuals for meetings and financiers, and Prince Andrew, and people are staying. I mean, it's a real destination for the Epstein class, yeah, for all of these multi-billionaires. Full credit to Ro Khanna, the congressman, he's the person who coined that term. And I think it's important. And, you know, people are like, "Why do you even care about this?" And I think that this story fundamentally is about how the rule of law does not apply to the rich and powerful, about how morality itself does not exist in many cases within the rich and powerful. And it also, I think it's an inspiring story. It demystifies the sources of their wealth and how much greater they are than all of us. Because the story that Les Wexner and many of the billionaires have said for many years

• 8:25Speaker 01

  is that Jeffrey Epstein was just this highly sophisticated financial mind. A genius at trading and at tax advice. I have searched all of these emails. There's no tax advice. In fact, there's only one.

• 8:35Speaker 00

  There's one.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  There's one where he sends a link of like a Business Insider article to his accountant. He's like, maybe we should try this.

• 8:42Speaker 00

  This guy might be good at tax advice.

• 8:44Speaker 01

  So apparently that's what he's charging. Now, let's remember Leon Black, one of the richest and powerful men here in New York City.

• 8:50Speaker 00

  He's part of the Apollo group.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Ahead of the Apollo group, who literally pays Epstein $150 million.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  That's a lot of money.

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Allegedly for tax advice. I explained this last time. He has access to the private wealth houses of every major bank in New York. Not Jeffrey Epstein, who is not licensed, not a trader, not a tax accountant, has no specialty. There's 3 million emails. I've got hacked emails. There's no tax advice in any of this.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Can I ask you just a question? And I'm a complete novice here, right? Is it possible that the tax advice is actually Epstein's proximity to people in power in our government?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 9:24Speaker 00

  And that they can get sweetheart deals for each other and allow people to evade taxes while the rest of us are paying full clip?

• 9:30Speaker 01

  There's tax evasion. There's money laundering. There's all kinds of a specialty book that Epstein had.

• 9:37Speaker 00

  You're saying the rich keep getting richer?

• 9:38Speaker 01

  The rich keep getting richer. The rest of us are suckers for making taxes.

• 9:41Speaker 00

  And they're not doing it by hard work. And they're not doing it by pulling up their bootstraps.

• 9:45Speaker 01

  That's the funniest thing. The only indication that we got to Epstein's source of his wealth was Lord Mandelson, who is, by the way, was the UK ambassador to the United States.

• 9:53Speaker 00

  Right.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Until the Epstein files came out, where he shows he is tipping off Jeffrey Epstein about an upcoming bailout in the UK. For insider trading purposes. And by the way, Prince Andrew.

• 10:05Speaker 00

  Explain how that would work really quickly. So he knows that there's going to be.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  He knows that there's going to be a government bailout. He sends Jeffrey Epstein email, giving him an update that this bailout is coming.

• 10:13Speaker 00

  And that will allow.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  This is publicly announced. And thus, what are we, what are we able to see? Lord Mandelson, he goes specifically, Peter Mandelson secretly advising the CEO also on how to fight the labor's 2009 banker's bonus tax. Even after suggesting he quote mildly threatened the chancellor. Mandelson was then the business secretary. So there's two specific things here. He's brokering JP Morgan pressuring the current UK administration of the time.

• 10:39Speaker 01

  And tipping him off for insider trading purposes as to what's happening.

• 10:43Speaker 00

  But the tip off, for example, is if you knew this bailout was coming, you could, you know, take some positions that would be advantageous to you and your cronies in the stock market that the rest of us would not know about.

• 10:51Speaker 01

  So the rest of us are sitting there and be like, oh, is the UK gonna bail him out or not? I mean, I have no idea. It's not public information. Now, this is information coming directly into his inbox. This is the clearest picture that we have about outright criminality.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  But you know who's really doing insider trading?

• 11:04Speaker 01

  What?

• 11:04Speaker 00

  The girl that cooks with Snoop Dogg.

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, exactly.

• 11:07Speaker 00

  What is her name?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Martha Stewart.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  The girl that will design your house. That's the insider trading we need to stop.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  This is a classic example of what we're saying, is that these people get away with all of the things that lower level people will be prosecuted for. There's a famous statistic, like if you make less than $25,000, you're 10 times more likely to get indicted by the IRS than somebody who makes over $2 million. It's like, you know, exactly, right? And so like, why? Because they're, they're easy cases. You send them a letter, you take their money. If you want to battle somebody with like 2, 5, 10, 15, 25 million.

• 11:38Speaker 00

  You're in court for decades.

• 11:39Speaker 01

  You're in court for decades, right? They have an army of attorneys. And that's why the inversion of the law is allows this permission, permission structure for the entire American and global elite, where they get away with financial crimes, they get away with money laundering, but they also get away with some of the most heinous crimes that I think as a society we have decided, which is the abuse and the traffic of women. Now, notice, I'm saying women, there are underage girls that are involved here. But I also think it's really disgusting to obscure the role that these men played in abusing a lot of these, especially Eastern European women at the time. Tens of millions of dollars of wire transfers from multiple banks, JP Morgan, Deutsche Bank, right here in New York City. You, by the way, if anyone wants to check my work, the New York Department of Financial Services, back in 2020, fined

• 12:23Speaker 01

  multiple of these banks and laid out how they violated their own internal bank policies by allowing all of these wire transfers. If you or I go into the bank, And we try to withdraw 9,900, even though that's technically not illegal. Because it's below the 10,000. They'll be like, they'll be like, oh, this is very suspicious. You know, because that seems like you're trying to evade. He did stuff like that all the time. And they're like, oh, it was for tips. Like, they violated all their internal policies. They violated the law, actually, because that's why they got fined. They enabled tens of millions of wire transfers all over the globe to these Eastern European women. And that's the heart of the Epstein story for abuse is both foreign women, who many cases were brought to the United States, all their false pretenses.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  Maybe they were told they were doing modeling. Remember, Epstein is linked to multiple people who were involved with modeling agencies. You have Les Wexner over at Victoria's Secret, Jean-Luc Brunel, the now famous Frenchman who was behind the modeling agency. By the way, Jean-Luc Brunel.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  What happened to him?

• 13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, he died in prison, actually. Actually, let's see.

• 13:26Speaker 00

  It's so unsafe in prison.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  I have over here. Do we have the story? Yeah, Jean-Luc Brunel was found dead in his Paris prison cell. I think it's in Foreign Reaction. Griffin, can you go to France Opens investigation in the document? So they actually just yesterday announced that the French will be doing a raid into an Epstein-linked associate, who at the time was a major figure in the French government and was part of this thing now called the Arab World Institute. But what's even more interesting is that on the Brunel investigation, they're reopening the case. And I think that's another thing I want to emphasize to the audience. Our government is the only government where there's not serious investigation. The UK.

• 14:06Speaker 00

  Why is that?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, the UK stripped, they stripped Lord Mandelson of his ambassadorship. Now, he's under criminal investigation by Scotland Yard. The Prime Minister, Keir Starmer, was up there for PMQs, which is great, if you don't know what I'm talking about, where the Prime Minister has to sit there and just get shit on by the opposition and answer questions. And he's like, yes, we knew about his relationship. Like, the Starmer government is in literal, like, it's problematic. Like, it might fall.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  They acknowledged that they knew about his existing relationship with Epstein.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Before they still appointed him ambassador. But even worse, they're like, well, of course, we didn't know. They're talking about stripping him of his lordship title, which hasn't been done. Apparently in like a long time. Yeah, if you're looking at the screen, that's a photo of the esteemed UK ambassador in his underwear.

• 14:49Speaker 00

  Hack him.

• 14:49Speaker 01

  With some girl there in a bathrobe. I think he's gay. So, you know, I don't really know what was going on there, but just giving in, you know, just one of those compromat type photos of where you let yourself get photographed and be around this person. He also in the emails, sent Epstein things like, I can't believe you're being so unjustly prosecuted back in the 2008 range. But I'm just giving these examples of other foreign governments are actually doing something about this. Lord Mandelson is in trouble. Prince Andrew is in deep shit. Prince Andrew, because everybody focuses on the pictures.

• 15:18Speaker 00

  When is something gonna happen to him? I feel like we have so much stuff on this.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  They actually, they just opened an investigation.

• 15:21Speaker 01

  More stuff has happened to him than anybody here? Not only do they strip him.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  He hasn't gone to prison?

• 15:25Speaker 01

  Not only they strip him of all his royal titles, he's actually being investigated right now because Prince Andrew was a UK trade advisor. While he was friends with Jeffrey Epstein and he was forwarding confidential trade advisory documents to Epstein. That's one of the things that came out in the files. Prince Andrew is currently under investigation by Scotland Yard and the British police. Now, other foreign governments, I just told you, Francis just did a raid. They're reopening the investigation of Jean-Luc Michel.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Can I just stop you for real quick? I mean, like, isn't the easiest way to see who's connected in the financial crimes is just to see which bank or hedge fund is beating the S and P 500?

• 15:58Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, actually.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Isn't that the most simple? It's like if you are clocking 25% a year for a decade.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 00

  You know something.

• 16:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's not just about, that's, that's a bigger, an Epstein story, right?

• 16:10Speaker 00

  There's no proof.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  That's like, that's a systemic corruption story.

• 16:13Speaker 00

  But I think, I think part of this, the systemic corruption, I think is part of the thing that's so infuriating. Well, obviously, obviously pedophilia infuriating. We're all on board with this. This is disgusting and we should, you know, wipe these people from the face of the earth. But what you spoke about earlier, which is this idea that these people have achieved this massive success. And we're left to think, oh, I guess they're just smarter than us. I just, they just know things that we don't know. And it's like, yeah, they do. They know insider trading.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:36Speaker 00

  And they're all, you know, scratching each other's backs. And when they do get caught for something, they're, you know, reach out to a guy like Epstein or you reach out to a guy like Lord Mandelson and you make sure that that's get wiped from the record.

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Let's give a good example of that. Like in intelligence, Griffin, can you put up the tweet of mine, help with the Russian girl blackmail? So this is a great. Example of how the power network works. This is going to link together women, blackmail and foreign intelligence connections. So back in 2015, here's Epstein and he sends this email to a Russian associate. How are you? I need a favor. There is a Russian girl from Moscow. She's attempting to blackmail a group of powerful businessmen in New York. It is bad for business for everyone involved. She arrived New York Saturday last week, staying at the Four Seasons on 57th Street. Suggestions? Question mark? Right, so yeah, so he's like, she's blackmailing my friend, who's a powerful businessman.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Here's where she's staying.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Here's her address.

• 17:28Speaker 00

  What should we do about it?

• 17:29Speaker 01

  This is very bad for business. What do we do about it? Now, who is the person he emailed? Let's go to the net one underneath that, Griffin, the Russian connection. The person he was emailing was a billionaire tied, he was the billionaire tied with an FSB Academy graduate. The FSB is basically like the secret service of Russia. He is a Putin-linked oligarch. And in fact, they discover his name is Sergey Belikov, who is the Deputy Minister of Economic Development, and later the head of the St. Petersburg Economic Forum Foundation, which runs the International Economic Forum Foundation in Russia. Now, how do things work in Russia? Intelligence, oligarchy, it's all connected, right? And so you need somebody to go away. Rich guys in Russia, they're also part of the former intelligence services. Never, never technically something that's part of ex FSB.

• 18:13Speaker 01

  So here's an explicit example that we have here.

• 18:16Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  An intelligence connection, a business associate, blackmail on behalf of powerful businessmen.

• 18:21Speaker 00

  The powerful business.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  We're all working together.

• 18:22Speaker 06

  Did anything happen to that girl?

• 18:23Speaker 01

  Huh? No, actually, we haven't been able to find out whether anything happened to that girl. There's some speculation that this was a woman that was involving Leon Black, who eventually did pay tens of millions of dollars in hush money in a separate suit where he was accused of some sexual stuff. Like, again, he denies it, he litigates and vigorously defends himself. But this, but I don't know exactly who this woman was.

• 18:44Speaker 00

  Can you bring that back up for a second, Griffin? Because in the email, it says, "New York businessman or businessman in New York."

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:49Speaker 00

  So these would be American businessmen.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  That are being compromised by a foreign asset.

• 18:54Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 18:54Speaker 00

  Potentially. And now it has come to Jeffrey Epstein's attention by, I imagine, these businessmen or somebody else. And they need to remove. The compromising person or the

• 19:05Speaker 01

  This needs to go away.

• 19:06Speaker 00

  So Epstein becomes not only this person who fixes tax problems.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 19:11Speaker 00

  Or rather money laundering. But he also can potentially make people go away. What I'm trying to understand, like, we were talking about those a little bit before. It's like, where does this leverage come from?

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:21Speaker 00

  So how does somebody get into a position of power where not only do the, you know, business class of the, or the business elites of the Epstein class go to him, but you actually have connectivity with the government as well?

• 19:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, so let's go to the, uh, let's go to the origin story, if we will. So origin story I have in my document. We're gonna start with the Mossad email, Griffin, if we can. This just gets to, again, this is, this kind of ties everything together. So in the, in the origin story question, or actually, sorry, origin story, let's do false passport. Cause that actually even predates that. Okay, so let's start with the false passport. So I actually, the last time I was on here, I talked about false passports. Now, we actually have a picture of that passport. So let's take a look at that passport. Go to the next one, just to show everybody. Here's a very, very young Jeffrey Epstein in a false Austrian passport. Now, what does somebody want to tell me about false Austrian passports back in the 1980s? Back when Jeffrey Epstein's only 29 years old.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  This is during the 1980s. Austria, if you guys have never been, I highly recommend it. And my tour guide, even when I was there, was telling me Austria was the nexus of spies. Because Austria was a neutral country after World War II. And it's where the US and the Soviet Union had some of the highest concentration of spies of anywhere in the world. And so here we have, right at the height of the Cold War, a false Austrian passport, which has now been released as part of the Epstein files. This is long before he's very rich. This is, like I said, he's only 29 years old. So already in the very beginning, we see indications of this intelligence activity. Now, why and how do you procure a false Austrian passport?

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  You don't get a false passport. That's a comment I made before.

• 20:56Speaker 00

  You don't.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  There's no such thing as false passport. There's a passport under false pretenses issued to you by a spy agency. Okay?

• 21:02Speaker 00

  So which agency would issue such a?

• 21:03Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's a very interesting question.

• 21:05Speaker 00

  Such a passport.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  Let's, uh, for intelligence, let's go to the FOIA CIA, CIA in 1999 document. This is a very interesting document. That was flawed.

• 21:14Speaker 00

  Can you explain what a FOIA is?

• 21:16Speaker 01

  FOIA is a Freedom of Information Act request. You, any of us, actually, can just FOIA any agency. There are a lot of rules around what can be FOIA'd and whatnot, but you can pay your own fees and you can say, "I want this under the Freedom of Information Act," about something. As long as there's a rigorous review process, etc. You need a pretty good lawyer if you're gonna get something which is actually scandalous and you'll have to fight it for a decade in court, but technically, it is available to you.

• 21:40Speaker 00

  You have access to information that has been procured by the government.

• 21:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, the government has. There are certain exceptions. Congress can't be FOIA'd, White House can't be FOIA'd, but executive agencies can. And so, you could FOIA somebody's emails. Like, I could FOIA my name in the Department of Treasury if I wanted to.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  So you can see if they're looking into you. And the idea behind this is...

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Or like, "Hey, did you see what Saagar said on this podcast?" Right? I could see, that's interesting. It's for a journalist, we actually get free FOIA sometimes, depending on the exemption. But, this is a 1999 FOIA that Epstein sent anonymously via his attorney to obtain, quote, "all CIA records that might reflect an open or otherwise acknowledged agency affiliation between himself and the CIA." He did it again in 2011 to see if the CIA still would acknowledge any links with him 12 years since. 1999 is a very important year. 1999 is at the height of what we call the unipolar moment. This is after the fall of the Soviet Union, and it's when a lot of the Cold War shenanigans were beginning to wind down. After 92, when everything really went away and Russia became democratic,

• 22:40Speaker 01

  the Cold Warriors, people like Epstein, Adnan Khashoggi, Iran-Contra, the money launderers, they kinda fell out of service because we don't need them anymore. But this gets to my, I'm pointing and painting a picture. We have a guy with a false passport in the 1980s. We have a guy in the 1999 saying, "Hey, what's going on? Why aren't you acknowledging your links with me?" Last time I was on here, I described how, there's a previously story from Rolling Stone. Again, everything I'm saying, I wanna be able to make sure people can go and they can check my work. You can go to, let's see, Spy Origins, I think. And what we're looking at in this is a Epstein story that was written by Vicky Ward, the OG journalist who wrote about Jeffrey Epstein. She talks about how Epstein was alleged...

• 23:23Speaker 01

  to have been on a private plane to the Pentagon in the 1980s. And he's involved deeply with Adnan Khashoggi, Douglas Leese, other arms control or arms traffickers who are at the heart of Iran contra. And now, now people might ask why? And this is where the initial leverage thing comes in. Epstein gets fired for Bear Stearns for financial crimes in the 19 or lying about financial effectively money laundering in the 1980s. He becomes an expert, in my opinion, at money laundering and moving money across the globe. Why does the CIA need that? So I explained this to you a little bit, Andrew. One of the things that happened after the Church Committee is that previously.

• 23:59Speaker 00

  Briefly explain the Church Committee, because I think it's important to understand how that changes.

• 24:03Speaker 01

  The Church Committee was a congressional investigation into all the shenanigans of the CIA in the 1970s. And so it exposed MKUltra, COINTELPRO, all of these crazy things that were happening on US soil. You know, I mean, the coup in Iran, right? Like all of the sanctioned blowing up Castro's cigar, trying to get, you know, his beard. All the insane shit that they used to do and the CIA.

• 24:26Speaker 00

  In other words, America is doing some nefarious things around the world and within the country.

• 24:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:30Speaker 00

  And I guess the United States citizens, or at least our, you know, government representatives, put forward this idea that we should be able to have transparency with that and understand what's going on. So it is a good thing.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:42Speaker 00

  How can we hold people accountable if we don't know what they're doing?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 24:45Speaker 00

  This gets passed and now we're able to hold them accountable. And I'm sure when the CIA saw that, they're like, well, let's just stop doing all those bad things.

• 24:51Speaker 01

  Of course, they would never keep doing that. What actually ends up is worse. This is what gives rise to the arms traffickers because now the CIA can no longer do it under official auspices. Now they have to hire Jeffrey Epstein's, Adnan Khashoggi's, they need cut out.

• 25:04Speaker 00

  They need the middlemen, the black men. Can't go back to them.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  They need that black operators, right? Because what they do is they use them as cutouts to continue doing the same stuff. This is how Iran contra happens. Iran contra, if it was 1960, they would have just kept doing it, right? But, you know, in 1980, they're like, well, it's explicitly against the law. We need to hire a guy, we need money here, sell it here, sell drugs and move arms to the Sandinistas and all this other nonsense. And that's why it's such a scandal. But that's why you need an Epstein in the 1980s because. This is after the church committee period. You need these cut out, dirty characters. And these dirty characters give rise to, you know, the take in line. A very specific set of skills, which is moving money surreptitiously across the globe.

• 25:46Speaker 00

  So how do they get chosen? So the government knows that they need somebody that they can trust. But people that do bad things are not often trustworthy.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  Right, exactly. And people who do bad things know other people who do bad things. That's how Epstein gets his entree. Is that Epstein, he's a young man. He's only, he's in his mid twenties. Gets fired from Bear Stearns. He was on the up and up. He never should have been there in the first place. It's pretty sketchy how we even got there. And now, all of a sudden, he's in with Lise and Khashoggi and all of these other arms dealers who are like, hey, let's use your set of skills for this stuff I've got going on. And now you start to build up a portfolio. And once you've done one thing, you can do another thing. You develop an expertise. That's when he starts his company.

• 26:24Speaker 00

  Not only do you get a portfolio, you get leverage over the most powerful governments in the world.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  Exactly. Which is why that 1999 letter is very important. Just to say, just reminding you. By the way, remember, this is before he's convicted. This is before anything is out in the open.

• 26:36Speaker 00

  In case you guys want to indict me.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:38Speaker 00

  This is what I know about you.

• 26:40Speaker 01

  Or maybe he's like, you need to hire me again. Or, or there's going to be some problems here, right? Like this, to me, that's a shakedown letter. That's the way that I saw it. It's like, listen, I need some more business coming my way. Because either business is down or something like, I need more leverage. But the question of the initial leverage is that. Also, there's all these interesting connections to Leslie Wexner and to Iran-Contra. So I think this is, this is going to be in the drop site link. I forget which tab this is in. A Griffin, yeah. Drop site, Epstein, Israel archive.

• 27:07Mark Gagnon?

  Could it also have been, maybe he was checking to see if he's been compromised? Like, say if he was already an agent, he's like, hey, let me see if my name's coming up anymore.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  I think he wanted, he wanted to remind them, I've been around. Where's my acknowledgement? What's going on with this? So these are my colleagues and my friends over at Dropsite. They've done a ton of great stuff about Epstein and Israel. But let's go to the Les Wexner, Iran-Contra stuff.

• 27:29Speaker 00

  Before we go into that, you said 1992. We were referencing the fall of the Russian.

• 27:36Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, fall of the Soviet Union.

• 27:38Speaker 00

  So the perestroika is in like 1992.

• 27:40Speaker 01

  I think it was 1990. I think the full fall of Soviet Union is 91, 92. I need to go check. Whenever the Yeltsin election is like when everything changed.

• 27:46Speaker 00

  We were talking to Gino Julian Dory. He does a lot of like great investigative stuff on this and he had posited interesting theory because I think when they interviewed Epstein's like, um, the guy would clean up his house. He'd work from forever.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:01Speaker 00

  There's this interview, I think like Edwards, is that the guy's name? The lawyer who is representing the victims in Palm Beach?

• 28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's right.

• 28:09Speaker 00

  And so I think they went to talk to him and I think he said something in that interview where he was like, Epstein was like doing okay in like 90, in 1990 or the eighties and 91. And then 1992, he said something happened, something changed. Like that's when the big mansions are coming through. That's when he's, you know, talking about private jets, et cetera.

• 28:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:28Speaker 00

  Now, Julian connected it to Robert Maxwell. But he was like, maybe this is Maxwell hiding his money, transfers it over to Epstein. That's why Ghislaine's at his hip because that's her access to her family's fortune. And this way Maxwell doesn't have to give it back to the people that he stole it from in Great Britain. But bringing up the fall of the USSR is a kind of interesting pivot there because there are a lot of people that made insane wealth.

• 28:57Speaker 01

  Good point.

• 28:57Speaker 00

  In that period. All the oligarchs.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 28:59Speaker 00

  Come to power.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, during that time.

• 29:01Speaker 00

  During that time period.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  And then they, you know, remade under Putin. No, you're right. Actually.

• 29:06Speaker 00

  I wouldn't even say, yeah, I would say they were limited in some ways.

• 29:09Speaker 01

  Right. It depends. Yeah. He removed some and made new ones. So.

• 29:12Speaker 00

  Putin sat them all down apparently in this meeting, which I'm sure has been propagandized for years, but I read a book called Once Upon a Time in Russia by this guy named Ben Meznerik. And apparently he sits them all down and he goes, it's over. Like he literally brings them all to like the Moscow like presidential state or whatever. He sits them all down. He goes, okay, guys, it's over. So you guys work for me now.

• 29:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 00

  And you can still make money, but you're gonna do what I say and I'm gonna get a piece of the pie.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're exactly right. That he basically made it instead of like free market robber baron capitalism.

• 29:40Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  In terms of state sponsored oligarchy.

• 29:42Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:42Speaker 01

  But the oligarchy continues.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  I think it's actually Les Wexner because 1991, a lot of people forget that is the year that Wexner signs over power of attorney to Jeffrey Epstein. So 91, so if he's saying 92 is when things explode.

• 29:55Speaker 00

  This makes sense that there's an injection of capital. And what type of, I don't think, what's so peculiar is that there hasn't even been an interview with this Wexner guy, yet he's the most direct connection with money to Epstein. Right? Like, we know for a fact that this guy gave boatloads of money to Epstein. Why are we not sitting down with this guy and having some sort of it? Why is there not at least some version of an indictment?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's 88 years old. Remember, he was listed as a co-conspirator in that original document by the FBI. He's the source potentially of Epstein's wealth. If you go back to that, Griffin, the Epstein thing, I can even show how going back decades, that there's these long links between Epstein and Wexner. What Dropsite reported, Epstein, Israel and the CIA, how Iran contra planes landed at Les Wexner's base. Epstein helped Leslie Wexner repurpose CIA Iran contra planes from arms smuggling to shipping lingerie. So this is a story from the 1980s.

• 30:46Speaker 00

  Break this down, break this down. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. How the Iran contra planes landed at Lex Wexner's base?

• 30:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Is this in Ohio?

• 30:55Speaker 01

  This is in Ohio, and this is why it's all very important. So as they show.

• 30:58Speaker 00

  Wait a minute, this is actually, okay, now we understand why there might be some protection of Wexner. Because he is also one of these intermediaries.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:07Speaker 00

  Right? So the government is like, look, you scratched our backs, so we're gonna kind of protect you as much as we can because we couldn't do these nefarious acts without both of you.

• 31:15Speaker 06

  So Wexner is also a cutout.

• 31:16Speaker 01

  And here's my favorite line.

• 31:18Speaker 06

  Wait, wait, wait. I mean, that's the question, right?

• 31:20Speaker 01

  It's possible. Remember, when we say cutouts, and people, let's like,

• 31:24Speaker 00

  Define cutouts for people to understand that term.

• 31:26Speaker 01

  Zoom out for intelligence. Because everyone's, and I said this last time, they're like, oh, Epstein worked for Mossad. No, no, no. He worked with Mossad. My friend Ryan, who wrote this piece, likes to say Mossad worked for him. As in, like, CIA, Mossad, Russia, FSB, the world's super intel, like, intelligence networks. They work for the rich and powerful, for the global elite, and for the oligarchs. And so if anything, to say worked for is kind of denigrating. It's like, no, no, no. It's the opposite, right?

• 31:48Speaker 00

  They maintain your interests.

• 31:50Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  You have a banana farm in Costa Rica, they're gonna make sure this stays in your power.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  We mutually work together. We maybe land some planes. I love this line from Ryan. "Of course, it could be an extraordinary coincidence that Epstein shared a penthouse with an Iran-Contra lawyer, worked for an Iran-Contra arms dealer, and then, as we report now, moved Iran-Contra planes to Ohio for use by the billionaire retail mogul, Leslie Wexner. It may simply be a coincidence that Ayud Barak, one of Epstein's closest friend, was the head of Israel's military intelligence during the planning for Iran-Contra, supervised the CIA's first delivery. It also might be something that people should take a closer look at, if they're so inclined." So, that puts it all together, right? Doesn't it? It puts it all together. You have Israel, you have the US, you have CIA, you have Wexner, you have the Iran-Contra planes. This is the origin story, the initial leverage. Then

• 32:36Speaker 01

  there's a question of Wexner and any of these people. The analogy that I gave last time was, if you remember the movie Argo, well, the CIA could not just put up a front production company. They had to go to Hollywood, and they, as you remember, he hires the guys, and they create, but they're real. It's a real thing. But it's their money. And then it's all on behalf of intelligence networks. Now, do they work for the CIA? Not really. They work together, right? You know, they work together on this one specific operation. The world's global elite, yeah, the world's, no, they're 1099. They're 1099 contractors, right? Like, these guys, like, they work sometimes together. He mostly is working for Victoria's Secret. But if the CIA needs something, okay, let's make it happen. Like, let's, you know, who, the CIA needs access to resources.

• 33:21Speaker 00

  Why would Wexner do something like this?

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Right, of course, why not? You know, why?

• 33:24Speaker 00

  But why would, why would it be advantageous to him? What type of interests would he have?

• 33:27Speaker 01

  At that time, he's a patriotic American. I don't know, he's a patriotic supporter of the state of Israel, right? Which maybe has his own interests in Iran contra, I mean, he has himself is a committed Zionist. He's donated millions of dollars to Zionist causes here in the US. There's a Wexner Fellowship over at Harvard University. He paid Ayud Barak, his foundation, $2 million to write two reports, one of which was never finished. Literally, one of which Chris never finished. Great work if he can get it. You know, I mean, so just showing where, you know, the money in terms of how this all stuff works. And again, he has this extraordinary hold Epstein does.

• 34:00Speaker 00

  You're being a real bad goy right now. I was just gonna say, you're being a real bad goy.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  But Epstein has this extraordinary hold on Wexner. And that's always the question, is it blackmail? Is it these past intelligence connections? Like, what is, one can only speculate. Leslie Wexner's still alive, he's an 88-year-old man. All he's ever said about this is, "I regret ever knowing him." That's it, that's basically all he's ever said. He had one public statement, he apologized for his previous relationship. He says he regrets ever knowing Jeffrey Epstein. And he says, "I cut off my relations with him a long, long time ago." Not 100% true. And he alleges that Epstein was stealing money from him. Not that he had cut relations off with him for anything related to his own behavior.

• 34:39Speaker 00

  That's why he regrets ever knowing him.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  I mean, remember in the birthday book, Leslie Wexner drew a picture of literally a pair of boobs? And being like, "Hey, Jeffrey, this is the only thing that you actually want." I mean, it's all out in the open.

• 34:50Speaker 00

  That's art.

• 34:51Speaker 01

  It's disgusting, like, the way that these guys operate. I've thought about that with the birthday book, too. You know, with you guys, like, am I the only guy who's like, when my friend, it's his birthday, I'm like, "Hey, man, love you, dude, happy birthday"? Like, am I the only guy?

• 35:03Speaker 00

  What happened to birthday punches?

• 35:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it just like, am I the weird one who isn't writing violent fantasies? I'm like, Jeffrey...

• 35:12Speaker 00

  We pay taxes, this is good.

• 35:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 35:14Speaker 00

  If you pay taxes, you do normal shit with your friends when they...

• 35:17Mark Gagnon?

  Critic poems.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  I reminisce. I reminisce about us being eighteen year old men and violently potentially ripping children. Yeah, or Trump, like, every day is a wonderful secret. Or, uh, I mean, actually, if you want, Griffin, I'm still trying to find this person and I would love to put it on a platform like this one. I think it's in the pizza gate section. If we look at, there's the birthday book suggestive child image. That's my label. I have never been able to find the person who, oh, sorry, actually, that's not, that's not this one. I need to.

• 35:49Mark Gagnon?

  Quick question. Let's say, uh, Wechler is like.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  That's what, by the way, that was in the birthday book, just so we're all, if we're all clear, is a young woman suggestively posing. That was literally in the birthday book, submitted by one of the parents, which is sick and disgusting.

• 36:00Speaker 06

  Submitted by the parents?

• 36:01Speaker 01

  Apparently, that's what it was.

• 36:02Speaker 06

  What does it say here? Uh, a new series of pictures?

• 36:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:06Speaker 06

  Looking coolest?

• 36:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, looking coolest. That's literally a young, pre-progressive girl posing in her pajamas for Jeffrey Epstein, which was included in the book.

• 36:13Mark Gagnon?

  That's sick.

• 36:14Speaker 01

  Uh, I'd have to try and find, yeah, I can't, I don't, I don't have it here in the document, but there's a, there's a, oh, I know, it's gonna be an Eyes Wide Shut. That's what it is. In the Eyes Wide Shut section, Eyes Wide Shut Birthday Book, I have never been able to find this person. So this was this image that was in the Epstein book where, again, I have no idea what it was, but this kind of reminds me of the movie like in Eyes Wide Shut, when they're playing the piano, because there's a piano there at the center, and then these pink chairs where people are like watching in the middle, and then there's like some, it seems to be like a girl or something like, they're in the middle in some sort of distress in like this creepy area, and this is clearly drawn by a very small child. The person who drew it allegedly is assigned there Alberto Frederick Gomez. I've

• 36:57Speaker 01

  never been able to find him. He, at one point, was here in New York City. I've never, I have, I have tried so hard to find this person. So Alberto, if you're out there, I'd love to talk to you, because I still don't know what the hell is going on.

• 37:07Mark Gagnon?

  I don't think he wants to talk to you.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  Uh, well, he was a child whenever he drew this. He was probably a victim, uh, if he was included here in the book, but he seems to be some wealthy guy. I think he's overseas now currently, but at one point, when this was taken, as I understand it, he was a child here in the United States, and he was actually here in New York City.

• 37:23Speaker 06

  And it's included in the birthday book?

• 37:24Speaker 01

  It's included in the birthday book.

• 37:25Speaker 06

  By a parent ostensibly?

• 37:27Speaker 01

  Allegedly, I would assume by a parent. I mean, how else would he have this relationship with a small boy? You know, being able to write stuff like that's, that's the big question.

• 37:34Speaker 00

  And we know the age?

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know. I don't know his age. I, I found.

• 37:38Speaker 00

  I couldn't draw this as a 42 year old.

• 37:39Mark Gagnon?

  That's what I'm saying, eh? It's maybe not a kid. Like, that could be a adult draw.

• 37:43Speaker 01

  I found a reference to him in the 2000s where he was already a teenager, which is roughly around when this would have been happening. All right. So like, I, I could confirm that he was young. If that's the same person, and I'm pretty sure it is. I tracked down, there was a, a gallery here in New York where at one point, he did some work with, but the gallery refuses to answer any of my questions.

• 37:59Speaker 00

  All right, guys, here are all our dates in 30 seconds or less. March 28th, Providence, Rhode Island. Uh, April 13th, Radio City Music Hall, Garden of Laughs. Great show, a bunch of great comedians. May 8th, Los Angeles with Jelly Roll at the Netflix Is a Joke Festival. August 8th, Halifax, Nova Scotia. Go.

• 38:17Speaker 06

  February 19th, I'm going to be in Washington DC. February 22nd, Charlotte, North Carolina.

• 38:22Mark Gagnon?

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side, but Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' healthcare to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com, not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee. The other co-conspirators that were named, um, there were a few of them that you can't even Google. Like, nothing pops up about them. Have you found out anything on those people?

• 39:00Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's interesting. So let's go to the co-conspirators. Let's go to the six co-conspirators video. Uh, this is from Ro Khanna. He got some criticism for this because these were men who were mentioned in the documents, and some of them had no relation to Epstein, according to them, again, according to them, but they're private citizens. And so, and I'm even weary of, you know, putting their names up or any of that because, uh, Ro Khanna is the person who, uh, the Ro Khanna is the person who, we don't need to play it, Griffin, uh, just to show people. He, he read it on the House floor.

• 39:27Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  You can do that without, you know, without being legally liable, but I'm just pointing out that there, those were the names that were listed. I'll say for the two that we do know of, Sultan Ahmed. So Yom is a very important one. He just stepped down, didn't he? Yes, he did. And he was the CEO of Dubai Ports, which is a very important nexus in the UAE. And actually, I think Dropsite has some stories there, Griffin, if we want to go to their archive about the Dubai connection. Because what he was doing with the Dubai Ports executive is that he was working with Sultan, by the way, Sultan. He is Epstein. Epstein was working with Sultan Soyam. So Soyam is the one who famously sent the email about the torture video.

• 40:11Speaker 01

  By the way, we actually do have an explanation. And shout out actually to Michael Tracy. Michael Tracy found the torture video was a scandal at the time regarding the UAE. So we can put that one to bed. It's not actually a video of girls being tortured, where they reference torture video, which is inside of it. But it is a torture video. Yeah, it is, but it's not like, it's not what people originally thought. Who was getting tortured? Here's from Dropsite. Praise Allah, there are people like you. Epstein nurtured Israel, Emirates ties before the Abraham Accords. And they specifically talk about his relationship here with the chief of Dubai Ports World and pitch Israeli logistics infrastructure and cybersecurity investments to the UAE.

• 40:48Speaker 00

  Question.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 40:49Speaker 00

  Do you think it's, let's say that he was one of these intermediaries, right? Do you think that's enough to have this type of global leverage?

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I do, absolutely. Because it all compounds on each other. It's what I was talking about with Iran-Contra. You start with Bear Stearns, then you go to Iran-Contra, you go to money laundering, you open the Epstein company, you get Wexner, you only need one, you guys know this in business.

• 41:13Speaker 00

  I just thought about something, because I've always thought about like, why, when they were done using him, did they not just kill him? And they eventually did.

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Well, they did kill him.

• 41:19Speaker 00

  Yes, but.

• 41:20Speaker 01

  Well, maybe, but.

• 41:20Speaker 00

  But, no, no, no.

• 41:23Speaker 00

  They killed him, but like, but I go, well, why not just kill them like immediately when they're using him? And I wonder if. It gets out there that you murder all of your intermediaries, you murder all your assets. You're not going to get the people that are going to be willing to sign up for it. So, in a weird way, you could say the government is in a little bit of a pickle. They're like, we have this guy that has leverage over us. They know we could kill him, but if we kill them, then anybody else is probably going to take the secrets they know about us and run to a country that's going to offer them protection. So, you do have a disproportionate amount of leverage on the most powerful countries in the world when you're in these positions.

• 42:03Speaker 01

  Also, you only are going to kill somebody if they're a problem for you. And I think a lot of people forget Epstein was not a problem till 2019.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  Break this down because they kill him so soon.

• 42:13Speaker 01

  If you really think about it, after he actually became a problem is how quickly he was, he died in prison.

• 42:19Speaker 00

  Within a month.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Right, literally, like in terms of his custody. And by the way, he was cooperating with the government potentially and had a meeting with his lawyer days before his suicide about cooperation, which may have been, let's say, the precipitation.

• 42:30Speaker 00

  There's a letter right there from the files.

• 42:32Mark Gagnon?

  You wouldn't say the first conviction in 2008, he was.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  That's not, that's the opposite of a problem. That was a cover up. That was like, dude, that was barely local news. That was Palm Beach Post saying, hey, here's Jeffrey Epstein. He pled guilty to solicitation of prostitution involving a minor. It's a very low level crime. She was just 17 years old. He had no way of knowing.

• 42:52Speaker 00

  He gets to go, I didn't know she was 17.

• 42:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't know she was 17.

• 42:55Speaker 00

  And nobody knows that there were 40 women that were alleging it.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Exactly. A girl as young as 14 in the same indictment. The last time I was here, I talked about the secret indictment. We actually have a secret indictment now. It was released as part of the Epstein files. Everyone should read it. We're talking about 14, 15, 16 year old girls, asking a girl who's 15, hey sweetheart, do you have any girls who are younger than you? This is in federal documents that were alleged. That's what, remember, that indictment, which was secured against him, was ditched in favor of the plea deal where he just has to plead guilty. And when he had to plead guilty to solicitation of prostitution with somebody who was underage, they found the oldest girl. So, they picked the 17 year old. So, a lot of Epstein defenders, oh, she was only 17. No, no, the indictment specifically says 14, 15, 16 and 17, yes, old girl.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  But they pick the oldest girl that he pleads guilty to, which allows him to just say, "She's only 17." We have literally a 14-year-old named in the secret indictment. This is why I wanted it to be released.

• 43:50Speaker 00

  There is an interesting narrative that came out afterwards where people go, uh, because who was it? Podesta said, "I was told that he was intelligence."

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Alex Acosta. That's an alleged quote, never been confirmed.

• 44:01Speaker 00

  Allegedly, he goes, "I was told that he was intelligence." And then he backtracks from that later on. And then there's another time where he goes, "No, he had no..." There's three different times where I think he expressed it.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  It came out recently, he denied it.

• 44:14Speaker 00

  And he denied it, right? But now, now that we know everything, right? Like, can't we add a little bit more credence to the alleged first quote?

• 44:22Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 44:23Speaker 00

  When he goes, "I was told that he had..."

• 44:26Speaker 01

  "He belonged to intelligence." Uh, I mean, I don't know. So the people-

• 44:29Speaker 00

  Why else would he do this? Let's say this person is singularly focused on, well, clearly not justice. Because if you're focused on justice for these girls, then you're gonna throw the book at them.

• 44:36Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 44:37Speaker 00

  So he's probably focused on, like, furthering his career, right? And if he's focused on furthering his career, you don't want to have that on your record.

• 44:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:45Speaker 00

  So why else would he do it unless he had immense leverage?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  Well, career is important, so-

• 44:51Speaker 00

  But this is gonna kill your career if this comes out.

• 44:53Speaker 01

  Well, it didn't come out for decades until he was literally the Secretary of Labor in the Trump administration.

• 44:58Speaker 00

  I guess my point is, somebody's gonna have to promise him that this is not gonna come out.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  And it wasn't, remember, guys, none of this was supposed to happen. The only reason that this wasn't totally done and dusted is not-

• 45:09Speaker 00

  This meaning, explained by what you mean by dust.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Epstein coming, like, all the government had to do for that 2007 plea deal, all they had to do, they could have given the sweetheart deal. All they had to do was go to the victims and say, "Hey, guys, we're doing this deal." That's it. And then, none of this would have happened.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  Because they did not do it, they violated the Crime Victims Rights Act, which said that they have to be notified. And again, they don't have to agree, they just have to be notified. By not notifying them, because they're ashamed of what they did, they violated the victims' civil rights, which makes void the non-prosecution agreement. Now, Ghislaine Maxwell is currently in court, and actually went all the way to the Supreme Court, saying, "I- My entire prosecution is unjust because y'all promised me immunity back in 2007. She's like, "My immunity has been violated from the non-prosecution agreement. We agreed in good faith on good terms that you would give Epstein and all his co-conspirators federal immunity of prosecution."

• 46:09Speaker 01

  And she is saying that the non-prosecution agreement is still valid. That's the legal basis. So all of this is a paperwork error based on the Epstein victims not being notified. That's why this whole thing.

• 46:21Mark Gagnon?

  So we were able to...

• 46:22Speaker 01

  We didn't get to talk about this.

• 46:23Mark Gagnon?

  She was able to be charged because that immunity was voided.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 46:27Mark Gagnon?

  What about all the other co-conspirators?

• 46:29Speaker 01

  Yes, they're also unvoided, right. So they can be prosecuted.

• 46:31Mark Gagnon?

  So why haven't we gone after them?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  That's a great question, isn't it?

• 46:33Mark Gagnon?

  Why we only went after...

• 46:34Speaker 01

  And maybe that's why he was 2019. Epstein is indicted, very shortly ends up dead. He's potentially involving cooperation with the government, as we saw in the files, literally from his own legal team, which showed that they're potentially exploring cooperation. His own brother says he wasn't going to kill himself. Mark, what is it? Who's the famous doctor? Michael Bodden? Michael Bodden just came out again being like, "I'm sorry, this is not consistent at all with the suicide." We won't show it here because it's really graphic, but in the Epstein files, there are actually photos released of the corpse. You can see the marks on the neck immediately after CPR was given and intubation. The marks on the neck from the consistent story, that it looks very deep, like it does

• 47:17Speaker 01

  not look consistent, I would say, with the official story of his own hanging and the way that it was done. Again, I'm not an expert, but I trust Michael Bodden. I think he's, you know, very intelligent, well-known forensic pathologist. He says that, what is it? The break in the hyoid bone and specifically the way that you can all see, it just is not consistent. Oh, and the body double. Let's not forget that. Let's put that up there. All right, so in the files, they actually talked about, "Due to the large media presence outside MCC, a male official called and said he would be arriving at the loading dock with a black vehicle. In order to thwart media, [blank] used boxes and sheets to create what appeared to be a human body, which was put into a white vehicle, which the press followed, allowing a black vehicle to depart unnoticed with Epstein's body." Yeah, so well, yeah, that's

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Crystal and I were talking about this. I was like, I would have given it zero and now I'm like 1%.

• 48:11Speaker 01

  I'm still at 1. I'm still at 1. I think she's at like 20, but yeah, I'm at 1%.

• 48:16Speaker 00

  Mark is about to explode right now.

• 48:19Speaker 00

  Mark has been researching this nonstop for the last 10 years, okay? Mark, tell me what you're feeling right now.

• 48:25Speaker 06

  No, I mean, I'm not an expert, but like, again, it's just all so weird. Like, there's just like been so much conversation for the past 10 years about like, oh yeah, there's elite people that are connected through this mutual blackmail using underage, you know, girls. To basically coerce each other and they operate the entire global stage and you were called crazy for it forever.

• 48:44Speaker 00

  Forever.

• 48:44Speaker 06

  And then now it's everyone's just like, yeah, we always knew this. It's like, what? No.

• 48:48Speaker 00

  No, it is. What do you mean now people are like, we always knew this?

• 48:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, like, because now you just hear people talking like from established media being like, duh.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  Of course he's a connected. That is annoying to hear. It is annoying to hear people say this. Like, obviously, when you were called like a spook, a quack, a simple hat maniac for even positing some of these.

• 49:07Speaker 01

  I had covered this story. I checked. My very first video on Epstein was seven, maybe eight years ago, actually. So when I, for the entire time I've covered it, why are you talking about this? You're a kook, weirdo. Oh, Sagar's on his Epstein thing. It's like, oh, it's just like his UFO obsession. Like, that's the way that it was talked about.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  When we did the Netflix special.

• 49:26Speaker 06

  But you'll be vindicated for that one soon as well.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, I will. That's my next one.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  There's a piece, it's the second episode of the special, that is like, you could watch it as if we put it out yesterday.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  On Epstein?

• 49:39Speaker 00

  Yeah. It's on Epstein conspiracies, everything that's going on.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Was that your straight to camera one?

• 49:44Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:44Speaker 01

  Oh, you put me in the credits for that, by the way.

• 49:45Speaker 00

  Of course, obviously. You're amazing assets to us. And like, you know, and it's just crazy. It's just crazy, this conversation is still going. Now, I think that like, that was at a time that, you know, people were starting to kind of like open up and wise enough to it. The internet was a little bit.

• 49:59Speaker 06

  We also didn't have all the information, so we took some swings. The swings, I think, through these files have been a little validated.

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Well, let's talk about it.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  Completely validated.

• 50:06Speaker 01

  But that's, it is important, I do think, and so this is where some of the scold media is like, "This has gotten totally out of control. People think they're like cannibalizing." It's like, no, cannibal was the name of a restaurant, actually, in terms of the reference of the files. And like, people sometimes don't like that I bring up, that many of the most salacious or unsubstantiated stuff has a quote "innocent explanation," or at very least, a much more reasonable explanation than the worst one. But what I'm trying to say, though, is that at its height, the worst of what we believed is that there is a global cabal of rich men who believe that the rules don't apply to them, who routinely enact and engage in immoral behavior, is true. Like, it is true.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Like, you don't have to take it so far. Like, the businessman blackmail email I showed you guys, like, that's it. That's the whole thing. Emailing a Russian guy connected to intelligence, "I need this bitch to go away," basically, right? Like, that's as clear-cut as it could get.

• 51:02Speaker 00

  It's funny, because if I talk to like, kind of like, lower-level people in like, finance or real estate, they're always like, "Can you believe that they weren't paying taxes?"

• 51:14Speaker 00

  That's what they're hung up on.

• 51:17Speaker 00

  This is unbelievable. They've been beating the stock market while the rest of us are just sitting here. Like, what about like, the pedophile, right? It's like, "Oh, I could see them doing that."

• 51:26Speaker 01

  Exactly. And anybody who's like, exposed to this world, even remotely sees very clearly, like, these people, they really don't believe that the rules apply to them, and the permission structure is that as long as you're useful, you can get away with anything.

• 51:41Speaker 00

  So this is what we were talking, I think I was talking to you a little about this, but Mark and I were discussing this, it's like, the financial crash, like, what was it, 2008?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  2008.

• 51:51Speaker 00

  I think in a lot of ways, this was like a permission slip for these folks, right? It's like, they see this massive thing that a lot of these people were part of, and you know, they're selling these bullshit mortgage packages to people, and the people making 20 grand a year buying three different homes, and... The, the, the, the banks get bailed out, the CEOs get their bonuses, everybody gets off scot-free. And I wonder if there's this feeling like, oh shit, we can really do whatever the fuck we want. And I wonder if things like really just ratchet up from there, especially from the insider trading perspective.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  Griffin, I don't have this email, but can you find the Epstein Teal email where they talk about global unrest? I know you know what I'm talking about, but there's specifically an email where they talk, I don't know if it's about Jay-Z, where he's like talking about global unrest and, and he's like, hey, there's all this chaos in the world, great for business. He's like, I think he might be talking about Libya, actually. That's the one that I have to go and find.

• 52:43Speaker 06

  The one I'm talking about is not implicating Jay-Z in any type of crime necessarily. It's saying, he's talking about why America's not Brazil. He says, why is there not rioting in the streets? Why are, why are poor people not cutting their heads off? And they, there's, conversation basically goes, they have the Super Bowl, bread in the circus. And the people that should be rioting are, are completely happy watching this and kind of sold out by Jay-Z.

• 53:07Speaker 00

  Right.

• 53:07Speaker 06

  Is what the email says.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Okay, alright. I mean, I don't, I don't hate it, but what I found, you know, in here is Epstein had a remarkable amount of self-awareness. Like when Libya was collapsing, he was like, hey, let's get in on this. He's like Libya's collapsing, let's make some money here. He's like, I know a guy, a sheikh who knows somebody inside of Libya, there's a ton of oil. He's always on the lookout. Like these people, the way that they operate is they find opportunity where the rest of us have revulsion, right? But most of us are like.

• 53:35Speaker 06

  We're gonna blackmail their heads of state in order to seize state assets after Gaddafi's killed.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  Suggests that he knew Sheikh Hamdan bin Mohammed Rashid al-Maktoum, the Crown Prince of Dubai, the Sultan disgraced who seemingly made, but Epstein got in touch and basically, yeah, this is, this is about a separate email, sorry. I'm, I'm still looking for the Libya connection, but that one specifically is about that.

• 53:55Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, I, again, I'm paraphrasing the emails and I might be taking it out of context, but it's more or less saying like, hey, we can get some money. Basically, Gaddafi has been on a campaign for 30 plus years, collecting all this wealth, and now it's just kind of up for grabs.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  I'm looking at it right here. So 2011, and then I'll get to the one that Griffin just pulled up. Greg Brown and Epstein discuss plans to extort Libyan officials, seize state assets under the. pretext of helping rebuild the country with involvement from former MI6 and Mossad. This all takes place during the civil war. But this was a very revealing exchange, June 2016. Peter Thiel, from Jeffrey Epstein to Peter Thiel. A return to tribalism, counter to globalization, amazing new alliances. You and I both agreed zero interest rates were too high. As I said in your office, finding things on their way to collapse was much easier than finding the next bargain. So you look for collapse, you look, and they're talking about Brexit. That was kind of the kickoff.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  Isn't this the Soros investment strategy too?

• 54:47Speaker 01

  Well, this is, this is, I mean, this is.

• 54:48Speaker 00

  Hasn't that been the criticism?

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a time honored tradition. We're chaos, you have opportunity. The rest of us are like, how are we going to pay our bills if you're a normal Britain? I mean, look, I, I thought Brexit was a good idea, but regardless of whether or not like a normal Britain is like, we need independence from the EU. And these people are like, where's the money to be made here? Right? It's like Libya.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  People are arguing about making $15 an hour's minimum wage.

• 55:08Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 55:09Speaker 00

  And these people are like, what's, what's the next government about to collapse? And we're going to extract wealth. The leap here that I'm willing to entertain is to say that if they're benefiting and making so much money off of chaos, do they not have a vested interest in causing chaos?

• 55:21Speaker 01

  Yes, they do. And see, that's the whole point is that it's all direction.

• 55:24Speaker 00

  What are your conspiracies there, Saurav? You're saying the way that they would make money, they would not do it all the time? It's a little tougher to substantiate from the files, it seems like. But tell you, just walk me through it. But it would make sense that, oh, if Gaddafi goes down, we can make a ton of money. Hey, should we try to support some rebel force that's going to depose Gaddafi?

• 55:41Speaker 01

  Well, that's where you would say that their entire ideology, which forced Gaddafi from power, which by the way, was a chosen operation by the United States, is supported by the Epstein class, which is the very type of people who invent this fake doctrine of art. It's called RTP, Responsibility to Protect, where NATO was involved, remember? Even though NATO is for Europe and we decided to go no fly zone. And then Gaddafi literally ends up with a rod shoved up his ass on camera.

• 56:04Speaker 00

  Who was in power in America during that time?

• 56:06Speaker 01

  Right, Obama, exactly, right?

• 56:07Speaker 00

  No.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the thing is, is that it's not really an Obama story because it wasn't just Obama. It was the entire foreign policy apparatus. Like you guys don't know this, but like Libya was one of the most consensus based decisions in the history of Washington.

• 56:23Speaker 00

  So there was unanimous support?

• 56:24Speaker 01

  There was no. Who said Libya was a bad idea.

• 56:27Speaker 06

  But the idea.

• 56:28Speaker 01

  There were more people who said Iraq was a bad idea than who said Libya was a bad idea.

• 56:31Speaker 06

  But this is why people claim like the American left is basically like center right of the rest of the world.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  Well, you could say the Democratic Party, but yeah, sure.

• 56:39Speaker 06

  But like, basically because it's just still the same like neoliberalists go around and like fuck up the world so that we can get money from it.

• 56:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, check out AOC's just remarks at Munich, by the way, where she basically said that. She, AOC just gave one of the most neoconservative speeches I've ever seen.

• 56:53Speaker 00

  Oh, she's running.

• 56:54Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, right.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Dog with a little, right?

• 56:56Speaker 01

  No, because it was a disaster.

• 56:59Speaker 00

  Which in her party was a disaster?

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Well, I just, basically it was a disaster. Griffin, if you want to get the clip, we can watch it and react.

• 57:05Speaker 06

  Which one? Taiwan?

• 57:07Speaker 01

  Taiwan was bad, but there was, uh, yeah, let's start with Taiwan. Taiwan, just to show people.

• 57:11Speaker 06

  While you bring that up, finish your point mark. We all sit here and we argue all these cultural issues about trans, whatever, and it all means absolutely nothing because the actual rich people, regardless of what political side they're on, are making money from destabilizing countries around the world.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:23Speaker 06

  So whether it's.

• 57:23Speaker 01

  Like disaster capitalism. I mean, this is what's happening with Ukraine, right? You have BlackRock, you know, who's pledging to rebuild Ukraine? Who's pledging to pay BlackRock, the US government? And then it's like, it becomes a circular disaster financial thing where Zelensky, I mean, he meets with the CEOs of these companies and they say it out loud. They're like, yep, we're gonna need 750 billion to rebuild Ukraine. And then who's gonna pay for that? We're gonna pay for it. Europe's gonna pay for it. Goes to the banks to finance the loans, which, so you, what you do is you destroy the country. After you destroy the country, you fuel the civil war and you make sure it's even more destroyed. Then after it's all completely destroyed, then you finance the rebuilding of said country.

• 58:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 58:00Speaker 01

  The only people it's bad for are the people who are there.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  Who finances that?

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Well, the orig- I mean.

• 58:04Speaker 00

  Is that the American people? Is that who finances it?

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Well, it's the US government, the CIA, everybody else.

• 58:08Speaker 00

  Us stupid fucking goys who pay taxes, is that it?

• 58:12Speaker 06

  But like, we watch TV and these people are arguing and it's like, they're all friends with each other. They're all supporting the same candidates that effectively do the same agenda, just with a different wrapping.

• 58:20Speaker 00

  Right.

• 58:21Speaker 06

  So they all get money and we pretend like it's real.

• 58:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:24Speaker 06

  To me, that's the annoying part.

• 58:25Speaker 01

  Is this Taiwan, Griffin?

• 58:26Speaker 06

  Uh, this is the, this is, this is just the, this isn't Taiwan specifically.

• 58:30Speaker 01

  Okay, let's take a listen. I want you guys to hear, just to show like, this is.

• 58:33Speaker 00

  In Munich, he's talking about.

• 58:35Speaker 01

  So, oh yeah, let me set the stage. The Munich Security Conference is the go to. It's like, that is where the world's foreign policy is decided. So Putin gives a famous speech there. J D Vance gave a famous speech there. It's a long and storied history of like, the nexus of NATO. It's kind of like the World Economic Forum for foreign policy. So AOC going there was a really big deal. It was a very, I'm running for president moment. And this is what she came away with.

• 58:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like 2020 additions for the Democrats.

• 59:01Speaker 03

  You know, first and foremost, I think we need to revisit our commitments to international aid. Not just USAID, but the dozens of global compacts that the current Secretary of State and President Trump have withdrawn from. They are looking to withdraw the United States from the entire world so that we can turn into an age of authoritarianisms, of authoritarians that can carve out the world where Donald Trump can command the Western Hemisphere and Latin America as his personal sandbox, where Putin can saber rattle around Europe and try to bully around our own allies there.

• 59:46Speaker 03

  And for essentially authoritarians to have their own geographic domains. And it actually is the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It is our global alliances that can be a hard stop against authoritarian consolidation of power.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  All right, let's cut it there. So first of all, the Trans-Pacific Partnership, that's not, she meant Transatlantic Alliance. So, major fuck up there, first of all. That's just, that's a little tedious, but like.

• 1:00:15Speaker 00

  One ocean. Okay, okay, so, okay, okay, so let's go. That's her job.

• 1:00:22Speaker 00

  She can't mix up a one whole region of the world. She's got the most important security conference.

• 1:00:27Speaker 01

  Get Taiwan next, Taiwan's way worse.

• 1:00:28Speaker 00

  Potato, potato. But real, okay, so look, if you're looking at this face value, right? You're an average American citizen that maybe doesn't have as negative a look on like how the Epstein class makes money by destabilizing nations and extracting their wealth, right? Or causing chaos and profiting off it. If you're just looking at this face value, is it not? Resonate? No, totally.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  It all sounds good. Stop communism, sounds good. Yeah, well, thank you.

• 1:00:54Speaker 00

  Before, before we go to this one. So I think the average person digests it and they go, wow, I think that she's kind of describing something that we're all seeing. I think this makes sense. But when you take a look at this idea that both parties are mutually benefiting from destructive chaos, you can look at it as maybe a dog whistle to those people in Europe to basically go, hey, we're gonna go back to the old system?

• 1:01:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:01:17Speaker 00

  We're not gonna stop this new system.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  See, that's the thing, is that our leftist-

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  Is that the criticism?

• 1:01:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, the critique is, you have to have the ear of Washington. So when we hear like, withdraw from the world, it's like, well, if we're not withdrawing from the world, we're gonna stay in the world, which we're gonna make our forward deployed empire, which, by the way, the left has always been the people criticizing the forward deployment of the broad American empire.

• 1:01:37Speaker 00

  I just wanna frame this to people watching, right?

• 1:01:39Speaker 01

  So like, yeah.

• 1:01:40Speaker 00

  So, so like, give me the, give me the, the best case scenario of what she said, and then give me the, um, the worst case scenario.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  The best case scenario of what she's saying is like warmed over the neoliberal Obama framework, is that NATO and all that must-.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  We should help our allies.

• 1:01:55Speaker 01

  We should help our allies. There's, you know, all this, you know, we're all friends here, we shouldn't have, you know, bad relations, is that America should remain the security umbrella of the entire world. Ukraine is, you know, the fight of the freedom and democracy.

• 1:02:11Speaker 00

  For the West, yeah.

• 1:02:11Speaker 01

  And for the West, etc. The worst version is, what I'm talking about, is that this is an inversion of a traditional leftist critique of the US American empire.

• 1:02:21Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  Which not, which works to actually facilitate, cause global chaos.

• 1:02:25Speaker 00

  Best case scenario, she's like, we should look out for our allies, we should all fight bad together.

• 1:02:29Speaker 01

  That's the way I heard it.

• 1:02:29Speaker 00

  And I, and I think a lot of people do hear it that way.

• 1:02:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, but you gotta, you gotta think, then what?

• 1:02:33Speaker 00

  No, no, no, no. This is what I'm trying to say, and I can't, I can't say what she actually believes, because I don't know who she is. But the worst case version of this is she's saying to the Epstein class, the powers that be, hey, we're gonna go back to the old system.

• 1:02:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:46Speaker 00

  Enough of this, we're just in the West, we're everywhere, and wherever there's chaos, we're gonna extract that wealth.

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 1:02:51Speaker 00

  So that would be the person that's maybe most concerned about American imperialism and the negative impacts of the world. And I know we're talking about American imperialism, but it's not just American as well. We've seen with these connections, this this interconnected web of these different, you know, intelligence agencies that is willing to take advantage of and maybe even stow chaos around the world and profit off of it. That language resonates with them. Maybe she doesn't, maybe that's not what she wants. Maybe she's naive to how it works. I'm trying to give her the most favorable outcome here, but.

• 1:03:19Mark Gagnon?

  Also got to take into consideration what she normally preaches and goes on.

• 1:03:23Speaker 00

  Of course, of course.

• 1:03:24Speaker 01

  But that was see, that's why I thought it was bad is I my joke was that's your brain on the New York Times. Like that's basically what that's like somebody who reads the New York Times, yeah, we shouldn't withdraw from the world is a, again, the most leftist critique of the American empire has always been like, no, we should withdraw actually because US involvement forward.

• 1:03:40Speaker 00

  American imperialism is a destabilization force. And instead she's inverting it and basically embracing a neoliberal neoconservative almost framework.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  But the second thing is, it's very obvious to me, this lady has not thought about foreign policy. We don't mix up transpacific partnership with transatlantic. Let's like, listen to the Taiwan answer. Listen to Taiwan and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

• 1:04:03Speaker 05

  Would and should the US actually commit US troops to defend Taiwan if China were to move? Um, you know, I think that uh, this is such a, uh, you know, I, I think that.

• 1:04:20Speaker 00

  Nah, cutting to the audience is crazy.

• 1:04:24Speaker 05

  This is of course a, a very longstanding um, policy of the United States. Uh, and I think what we are hoping for is that we want to make sure that we never get to that point. And we want to make sure that we are moving in all of our economic research and our global positions to avoid any such confrontation and for that question to even.

• 1:04:49Speaker 00

  Oh, they got her.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, she eventually got it.

• 1:04:55Speaker 01

  It was a disastrous answer. Like you just say, we're going to maintain the policy of strategic ambiguity, which she eventually got to. But she clearly didn't even know what she was talking about. She also, by the way, said that Venezuela was below the equator, which is not true. So like, these are three separate things.

• 1:05:09Speaker 00

  She's still an American. Yeah, we don't know about other countries.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  I'm just saying, I mean.

• 1:05:16Speaker 00

  Again, again, again, it seems that she's hesitant to say.

• 1:05:21Speaker 00

  What's actually really interesting is in the other answer, she's like, we want to protect and support our allies. And then when asked about Taiwan, she's like, well, we would hope it doesn't get to the point where we have to.

• 1:05:30Speaker 01

  Well, we don't want to get to that. And I don't know what my policy is. I mean, it's clear, like, again, to me, this is a woman.

• 1:05:35Speaker 00

  She thinks she just wasn't ready for that question?

• 1:05:37Speaker 01

  She's not ready for the question. I think that these people, and this is the most dangerous thing.

• 1:05:40Speaker 00

  There's a darker way to interpret that, though, Sagar. The darker way to interpret is that she's, she does know the answer, and she's saying, we're not going to go and support, and she-

• 1:05:49Speaker 01

  Or maybe we will. I mean, but that's the whole point about policy, the policy of the United States is strategic ambiguity. Maybe, maybe not. Now, the thing is, you're supposed to just say that, like, flat, and then move on confidently.

• 1:06:00Speaker 00

  If this is the global security conference, she should know that they're going to ask about Taiwan, right?

• 1:06:04Speaker 01

  She should know. I mean, I don't want to get too, like, nitpicky, because, like, look, I get it for all the people who are mad. Trump is literally the president who says concepts of the planet. I get it. I get what you're all saying. Okay?

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  We could point out a lot of those.

• 1:06:16Speaker 01

  I'm just saying.

• 1:06:17Speaker 00

  A million of them.

• 1:06:18Speaker 01

  I hear you 100%. Now, generally, they like to hold themselves at a higher bar. But what I'm trying to say is that the danger in this, and this is always my, is that if you don't have an ideology, which I don't think that she does, you will get colored in by Washington. That's why I talked about Obama. Obama did not think deeply about foreign policy. He had a little bit of an anti-war inkling. He comes into office, he gets destroyed by the neoconservatives and the general class, who force his hand on Afghanistan and make him to commit to a war. Obama's Wars by Bob Woodward, that should be, like, required reading for every American, to see how the internal machinery of the Pentagon can move you through the press, through leaks, they can force your hand. And you're a president

• 1:07:00Speaker 01

  who just won 55% of the vote, and it turns out, you have no power here.

• 1:07:06Speaker 00

  So this is, this is really interesting. If you do not have, if you're not an ideologue about geopolitics, for better, for worse-

• 1:07:15Speaker 00

  You are at the mercy of the system.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  The deep state.

• 1:07:18Speaker 00

  And the, and the deep state, or whatever it is, the powers that be, the Epstein class, will move you in advantageous, advantageous situations for them.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll force your hand.

• 1:07:27Speaker 00

  So, so the, so the, maybe the most fair concern about this is the way that she communicated these ideas, it showed that she hadn't thought, or wasn't an ideologue about these certain things. It seemed maybe with the first answer, she's like, I believe we should support our allies and go back to maybe more traditional approach, which, one way to look at that is like, yeah, we should support the other countries that are looking out for us as well. And you might not agree, but like, I, I, me personally, I look at that, it's like, I want allies. Like, if we gotta bang out again.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  I would just say, well, which ones, right? So like, who, who should be an ally?

• 1:07:55Speaker 00

  Sure, sure. I guess, on the surface, I don't hate that answer that she gave at all. But the scarier version of that is, is she messaging to the real powers that be, hey, if I am in power, we can go back to the old way, which made you guys a lot of fucking money.

• 1:08:11Speaker 01

  Yes, and not only a lot of money, that's like, that is, that's the crown jewel of Washington. It's the American empire, the imperium. It all stems from NATO.

• 1:08:20Speaker 00

  I think average Americans are just so distant from this, on purpose, by the way.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  No, I get it, but that, but you know, the other warning I give, I'm not, sorry, we're off Epstein track, but like, guys, the one thing you're actually voting for is foreign policy. Ninety-nine percent of what you want from Congress is not gonna fucking happen. Like, even in the best of times.

• 1:08:36Speaker 00

  Oh, we know.

• 1:08:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Okay, but like, yeah, as, as you have found out, as many new entrants to politics have found out, right? Like, but what you will get is foreign policy. The person with the monarchical powers to start wars, to end wars, to do whatever they want, as we're all witnessing right now with the situation with Iran. So that person you vote for, like, if you make a mistake, it's bad. And like, what I'm pointing out in her, in her ways, if you're a leftist, and specifically, like, you have your critique of the American empire, and like, the way that the US and all that should operate, and I have deep respect, like, for that worldview, you will see here, what you're, what you watch in front of you is not a representation of that whatsoever. It is much more representation

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  of a traditional Hillary Clinton-esque style Democrat, who's maybe tweaking her language a little bit by saying the words "working class" a few other times in the sentence. That's the danger.

• 1:09:28Mark Gagnon?

  Voters are fucked either way, because Trump ran on, hey, I'm ending all wars, and now we're about to start, so it's like.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Welcome to Washington.

• 1:09:38Mark Gagnon?

  You can't even vote here.

• 1:09:39Speaker 00

  I think that that feeling is emblematic of the obscene thing as well, which is like, you're fucked either way, right? It's like they're a group of people that they're gonna make these decisions, whether we like it or not, and even if we have them dead to rights, it looks like the administration, every administration, but especially this fucking one that ran on exposing it, will do everything in their power, even if it means besparing all their reputations, to silence it and shut it down. All right, guys, let's take a break for a second. This is a new year, new routines, but have you ever stopped to think about what your shower water is doing to your skin and hair? Most people spend thousands every year on skincare and hair care, trying to fix dryness, breakouts and dull hair without realizing the real problem starts before the products

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• 1:12:35Speaker 02

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• 1:13:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's talk about Lutnick on that one. Lutnick is the worst example of this. So I have the clip in here, Griffin.

• 1:13:11Speaker 00

  Can you believe a guy in finance would be neighbors with one of the most rich and powerful people and never want to hang out with him? Can you believe that?

• 1:13:16Speaker 01

  That's what happens. Let's get the Midas touch clip, the one where he says he never saw him again after 2005.

• 1:13:22Speaker 00

  Me and my wife saw him and we felt a dark feeling and we're like, I will never hang out with that guy unless it's on an island with my family.

• 1:13:28Speaker 04

  All right, so we are in number 11 and he lives in number nine.

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  Right.

• 1:13:35Speaker 04

  So.

• 1:13:36Speaker 00

  I mean.

• 1:13:39Speaker 00

  Pause. Are they just fucking with us? At this point, are they just fucking with us? I just.

• 1:13:45Speaker 06

  I was in number nine.

• 1:13:46Speaker 00

  He's in 11. He's in nine, he's in 11. Lutnick happens to not go to work that day. At this point, he's the guy who was supposed to.

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, if you want to go further, he's from Cantor Fitzgerald, which is where the plane directly hit in the World Trade Center.

• 1:13:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, so they were trying to get him out of here.

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  You can take your own conclusions.

• 1:14:05Speaker 00

  Then Laden is like, if we get one office.

• 1:14:09Speaker 00

  Okay, all right, go on, go on.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah. Pigeons and mice. Okay, that's it was. So we build, we rebuild our house, we'll move in in two thousand and five. Okay, Jeffrey Epstein is arrested like a week ago, something like. Right, right. So knock on the door, his assistant, or like a salary says, Mr. Epstein, your neighbor would like to invite you over for coffee. So my wife and I go next door. You know, we walk the seven steps. Yes. Right to the next house for.

• 1:14:42Speaker 00

  Building seven.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Share a wall.

• 1:14:44Speaker 00

  I'm just saying.

• 1:14:45Speaker 02

  So he invites us in, we have coffee in this, and he says, do you want a tour? We said, great, interesting. Really big house. Every room you went into? He's got, he's got, well, I'll tell you, so his house is like, super big, really wide. And so he gives me a tour in the living room, big living room. And then across from it is double doors, I assume it's the dining room. Yeah. And he opens the doors and there's a massage table in the middle of the room. And candles all around and stuff. So I ask very insightful, cutting questions. I say to him, massage table in the middle of your house? How often do you have a massage?

• 1:15:29Speaker 02

  And he says, every day. And then he like gets like weirdly close to me. And he says, and the right kind of massage. Now my wife is standing here. So she looks at me and I look at her and we say, I'm sorry, we have to go. And we left. And in the six or eight steps it takes to get from his house to my house, my wife and I decided that I will never. Be in the room with that disgusting person ever again.

• 1:16:09Speaker 01

  All right, let's cut it there, Griff, and then let's put up the next clip where he was in front of the United States Congress after emails showed that he had sent multiple emails to Jeffrey Epstein, including potentially planning a trip to the island. And what do we have here? He did go to the island. Yeah, quote, and actually, this is a five minute clip, we don't have time to find it. I'll give you the direct quote. "Did you in fact make the visit to Jeffrey Epstein's private island? Lutnik, I quote, "I did have lunch with him as I was on the boat going across on a family vacation. We had lunch on the island." That is true. That is after the alleged incident and the dramatic telling that you all just saw, which is planned by email, which was released in the Epstein files. Now, he said he would never be in a room with him again. Yeah, oh, right.

• 1:16:53Speaker 01

  It could be outdoors. Yeah, you're right. He was on a yacht. Yeah, he was on a yacht. He happened to be near the island. It's disgusting. It's an explicit lie. And then it's not just about the lie, it's about the confidence in which he's willing to tell that story. And what does that confidence tell you? The confidence that his lie will never be found out, right? That was the purpose of that lie, is that he knew that he was lying in the very moment that he said that. Not only did it get found out, but now he also knows that he will face no consequences. And I think that is the worst part, is, and this, remember what I was talking about with foreign governments and accountability? Our government is the least accountable, and our government has the most of these people. The Federal Reserve Chair was listed in the Epstein email as a potential guest, the new chairman, who Trump is going to appoint, Federal Reserve,

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  RFK Junior. There's an email in here where they're talking about going fossil hunting with RFK Junior. I mean, Junior's, I mean, I even asked him about it. He admits going. No, he got out early. Yeah, yeah. He was like, oh, yeah, I saw him hanging out with them, but I was on the plane. And what did he say to us, Griffin? He's like, I knew a lot of people. I knew OJ Simpson or something. He went on like a list. Yeah, he said, I'm OJ, I knew, you know.

• 1:18:00Speaker 00

  It is also funny that he's like, we went fossil hunting. It was old stuff we were looking at. The whole mess it could be.

• 1:18:09Speaker 06

  But I mean, what is the consequence for someone like Lutnik?

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  The consequence should be that the public should demand resignation.

• 1:18:14Speaker 06

  But if we're making anyone that's associated with Epstein resign, I mean, Trump is his boy.

• 1:18:20Speaker 01

  Well, okay.

• 1:18:21Speaker 06

  Back in the day.

• 1:18:22Speaker 01

  Fair point.

• 1:18:23Speaker 00

  Lutnik is Trump's handler, right? Like, that's...

• 1:18:25Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, I don't know if that's accurate. As I, as I understand it, Lutnik is like this deep...

• 1:18:31Mark Gagnon?

  Kushner's the handler.

• 1:18:32Speaker 00

  You think his kid is?

• 1:18:34Mark Gagnon?

  Yes.

• 1:18:34Speaker 01

  No, his son-in-law is.

• 1:18:35Mark Gagnon?

  The son-in-law.

• 1:18:36Speaker 00

  But he still has kids.

• 1:18:37Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, but nah.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't think, I, I understand it. I don't think...

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, be careful.

• 1:18:44Speaker 00

  No, no, no, but like, is, I mean, that's, it seems, look, if Lutnik had that type of connectivity with Epstein, like where he's willing to lie about the relationship, even though he knows he's gone to the island, the emails show that he's planned to be there, he's Trump's right-hand man, he's behind him in every single conversation that he's having.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  He's the point man on tariffs, by the way, point man on tariffs and about the destabilization. By the way, if people should look into his son, if Griffin was here, I'd have him look it up. His sons are doing some sketchy stiff stuff whenever it comes to the tariffs as well. But the point remains around all of this is that accountability...

• 1:19:16Speaker 00

  Hold on, I don't want to leave this. Do you think that Lutnik is his handler?

• 1:19:20Speaker 01

  Uh, no, I don't think, I don't, I think handler misunderstands the way that the current Trump administration works. Like, the idea that he doesn't have agency. And I think Trump has a lot of agency. Like, he's the person who's deciding what he wants to do. He may be manipulated, you know, in certain directions. And I definitely think that's true, but that's not unique to Lutnik. That's a variety of different policy areas, right?

• 1:19:42Speaker 00

  So with Trump then specifically, right? Because Trump has mentioned, what, a million times in the emails?

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  According to Jamie, according to Jamie Raskin, yes.

• 1:19:49Speaker 00

  Is there any, is it, because the timeline that we were presented was that they were, they kind of knew each other. Now we know they really knew each other.

• 1:19:57Speaker 01

  They were good friends.

• 1:19:58Speaker 00

  They were good friends, but now they kind of knew each other. And then something happens and then they sever the friendship.

• 1:20:04Speaker 01

  That's according to Trump.

• 1:20:04Speaker 00

  That's according to Trump. But have the files proved that that wasn't the case?

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Well, what the files have proved, not just the files, what we have seen is that Trump's intimate relationship with Epstein is much deeper... than he went on, which is that he was just a Mar-a-Lago member, that they casually knew each other. And by the way, Trump has hung himself in his own public comments. He talks about how he was being creepy with girls that were at the spa. The story came out that Mar-a-Lago was sending private massage girls to Jeffrey Epstein's house. I mean, Virginia Giuffre. I was gonna say, Virginia Giuffre, one of the, she's a more controversial Epstein accuser, I will definitely give you that. But it is undeniable that she was trafficked, or she was, you know, abused and, and/or associated with Epstein around the time that she left Mar-a-Lago. And Epstein, or Trump was even asked, did you sever your relationship?

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  Because Virginia Giuffre was stolen by Epstein from Mar-a-Lago. And he basically said yes, in the Oval Office, he was asked about it on camera. But the deeper point around their relationship is not just their social relationship. But, you know, frankly, we see multiple instances of an entanglement in their social life when it comes to women. So for example, you see this ex-girlfriend that Epstein apparently had, that eventually started to date Donald Trump. If Griffin was here to have him pull it up, but there's a dated check in the birthday book where it's like a depreciated asset, you know, being sold.

• 1:21:24Speaker 01

  Convenient timing for Griffin to leave the room.

• 1:21:27Speaker 01

  He's deep state, dude. Yeah, he's in the deep state. He's literally compromised. No, but there's the depreciated.

• 1:21:30Speaker 01

  Thoggers handler, for sure.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  The depreciated asset check where, you know, there's a girl, like Trump's ex-girlfriend being sold from Epstein to Trump. Like, this is a bad look. There's also, in the Epstein files, I'll have Griffin pull this up whenever he comes back, is Trump's, one of the accusers was actually interviewed by the FBI. Can we get that? It's in Politicians, Trump Accuser, Interviewed by the FBI, just came out from Roger Solenberger. Which, by the way, let me just finish the thought here. The fact that the FBI did interview a victim who was accusing Trump, goes beyond an anonymous claim against Donald Trump by a tip line, right? So this was actually one of being interviewed. Again, look, look, being interviewed is not necessarily a crime.

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  But what we're talking about is a deep social relationship with Trump has never really wanted to acknowledge at, in his public life. But in the prior life, he would acknowledge it all the time. The 2002 interview that he did on the record about Epstein. He literally said Jeffrey, he likes him young. Like he said that straight up in 2002 and he was like, no question Jeffrey enjoys his social life.

• 1:22:35Speaker 00

  So why run on this?

• 1:22:36Speaker 06

  One second, the birthday card, was that before or after 2008?

• 1:22:39Speaker 01

  That was 2006, uh, 2006 is, is the year that they.

• 1:22:42Speaker 00

  So why run on this?

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:22:44Speaker 00

  Why, why would, why would Trump run on this?

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Well, that's a great question.

• 1:22:47Speaker 00

  And then why would he specifically choose people that build their entire identity around exposing it?

• 1:22:53Speaker 01

  You know what I've noticed about this and I actually went and tracked the record?

• 1:22:55Speaker 00

  Mark?

• 1:22:55Speaker 06

  No, no, no.

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:22:56Speaker 06

  No, no, no, go ahead. I'll add on to it.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Okay. Trump never ran on it. He was always uncomfortable when asked about it. I went back and tracked the record. He was never into it. It was the people around him.

• 1:23:07Speaker 00

  Wait, what do you mean the people around him?

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  It was Cash Patel, it was Pam Bondi.

• 1:23:10Speaker 00

  But he's choosing them.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he chose them, but like he didn't choose them for Epstein. Like he kind of flew above the, and whenever he would, he asked about it, remember famously with Ghislaine, I wish her well. Right? Like the famous comment that he gave, oh Jeff, I barely knew him. Actually it was a democratic scandal. But when he was on the campaign trail, he never mentioned it. It was other people, like influencers, media ecosystems that were obsessed with the case. Which it was used by the Trump campaign to become into a.

• 1:23:37Speaker 00

  Mark proved that Sogars compromised.

• 1:23:39Speaker 06

  No, no, he does have one mention where I don't remember exactly where it is, but he comes out kind of unannounced and says, by the way, that Epstein island thing, Clinton's gonna have a hard time with that.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Did he say, where, where did he say?

• 1:23:51Speaker 06

  Do you remember this?

• 1:23:52Speaker 01

  Yes, during the campaign?

• 1:23:53Speaker 06

  This is like, eh, 2016, 2015? I can't remember exactly. But he basically just comes out, it seems like it's sort of unprompted, but he just kind of like goes at, he just kind of goes at Clinton, basically trying to use it against him. And I don't remember the exact, dude, you remember this, right?

• 1:24:08Speaker 00

  Yes, I do remember him referencing it. Now is this.

• 1:24:11Speaker 06

  Something with the island and Clinton's gonna have a hard time.

• 1:24:13Speaker 00

  Is he already elected at this point? Is he campaigning against Hillary? And he's using this as a way to malign Hillary through Bill?

• 1:24:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, I think it was that.

• 1:24:20Mark Gagnon?

  That's so surprising because Clinton's his boy now, you know?

• 1:24:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, they're good friends.

• 1:24:24Mark Gagnon?

  They've always been good to him, you know?

• 1:24:26Speaker 01

  So, early 2016, Bill Clinton had a lot of problems coming up with the famous island with Jeffrey Epstein. That's what, that's what Trump said.

• 1:24:32Speaker 00

  So Trump references the island.

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  I didn't know that.

• 1:24:34Speaker 00

  2016, it kind of just.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  It's like a throwaway comment. Yeah.

• 1:24:37Speaker 06

  Do your research.

• 1:24:41Speaker 00

  Okay, so this is, this is where I gotta give some pushback on you because it seems as if Trump and the administration are very technical in terms of, not, I don't know, technical might be the wrong word, but like purposeful in the people that they put into power, right? Like, they don't like, well, maybe you.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  I wish that were true.

• 1:24:58Speaker 00

  All right, fair enough. But like, they want to, they want to execute certain things and they put people in power that will execute those things.

• 1:25:06Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:25:06Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:25:07Speaker 00

  So they did choose Bondi.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:09Speaker 00

  They did choose Cash.

• 1:25:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:10Speaker 00

  They did choose, uh, what's his face, uh, Bungino?

• 1:25:14Speaker 01

  Bungino.

• 1:25:14Speaker 00

  Right?

• 1:25:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:15Speaker 00

  So they were aware of these people's identities. They're aware of what they were campaigning with themselves. Why would they put them in those positions of power?

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Cause you neutralize them.

• 1:25:25Speaker 00

  Something different.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  Uh, well, yeah, see, that, that actually did happen too, though.

• 1:25:29Speaker 00

  But then you gotta neutralize them. It seems like an extra effort. It's like, for example, this new person they're putting up for the Fed chair, right? They don't like what, what, uh, Jerome Powell's doing.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:37Speaker 00

  So they're putting someone else that's gonna do things that the administration wants. That's what I imagine.

• 1:25:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:41Speaker 00

  Will that guy do the exact same thing that the administration wants? I don't know. But that's their hope.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:25:46Speaker 00

  You're telling me we're supposed to believe that they would put these three figures in power? And then once they're in power, go, hey, can you go take back everything you just said? Because that's not what we want. Why not put people in power that said, that said the stuff that Trump and them believe, or want us to believe?

• 1:25:59Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:26:00Speaker 00

  It just seems like a.

• 1:26:01Speaker 06

  Cause Bungino's a massive oppositional voice. If you recruit him into the fold and basically.

• 1:26:06Speaker 00

  Oh, this is the RFK thing. It's like RFK has a lot of support, people like him, we're gonna bring him into a fold, maybe we can scrape some Dem votes.

• 1:26:12Speaker 01

  Well, there's a famous LBJ quote, he's like, they're like, why'd you bring in one of your enemies into the tent? He's like, better inside pissing out than outside pissing in.

• 1:26:19Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 1:26:20Speaker 01

  Right? So like that.

• 1:26:20Speaker 00

  But he doesn't have to worry about Cash Patel.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Uh, we, I don't think. Listen, there are a variety of theories. I've always believed that he basically thought it was a stupid issue that got people riled up and he didn't realize people like us were serious about it whenever we were talking about it and then wanting and demanding accountability. I also, look, there's, there's an alternative explanation for Cash and Bondi, which is while they may be very, you know, like, they may have been very into the Epstein question. Also loyalists.

• 1:26:47Speaker 00

  They're loyal dogs.

• 1:26:47Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:26:48Speaker 00

  Did you do what you're told, dog?

• 1:26:50Speaker 01

  They're willing to debase themselves in public. Yeah, they're willing to sacrifice themselves. I mean, look at Tulsi Gabbard.

• 1:26:57Mark Gagnon?

  He still runs FBI. Chill out, bro.

• 1:26:59Speaker 00

  Yeah, my bad, my bad, my bad.

• 1:27:01Speaker 01

  We've got Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Junior and Pam Bondi and Cash. Like, these people have defenstrated themselves, like, completely on the public stage for everything that they allegedly believed in. Like, dude, I've interviewed Tulsi many. I thought she was a legit person. I really did. And when I saw her back up the Iran thing, I was like, I cannot believe this, that this woman, who I spent so many times interviewing, really respected. Dude, it's about power. At the end of the day. New York Times article just dropped. The reason that she's behind all this Fulton County FBI election raid, they're like, she wanted to get back in Trump's good graces. Like, that dude, it literally is about access to the king.

• 1:27:39Mark Gagnon?

  And it checks out that Trump wasn't taking this seriously because they really thought the whole giving away the binders thing was gonna be fucked.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  They, under, because...

• 1:27:48Speaker 00

  They usually have a good idea.

• 1:27:50Speaker 01

  But they've been right about everything else. Everything, other thing. If you look at issue areas where MAGA purports to care and Trump says no longer, like Iran. If you were to poll MAGA two years ago, should we strike Iran? Under the current circumstances where the administration looks like they might? They would be like, absolutely not. Biden should be impeached. He's trying to start a war without congressional authorization. Now Trump says it, oh, it's 90% support, right? So it's literally gonna flip. It's called thermostatic public opinion. They, things rise and shift with depending on who's in power. I mean, same thing on the app, but the thing is the Epstein was the one thing that they didn't realize. No, a lot of us actually cared. And that's why...

• 1:28:29Speaker 00

  Pause for one second. Is that because they didn't realize how much normal people care about [BLEEP] women?

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, you might be right, dude. Like, I don't know.

• 1:28:38Speaker 00

  Are they so caught up in the Epstein class themselves that they're just going, oh, they care about little girls getting trafficked?

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:28:44Speaker 00

  Like, is it so normal to these people that they think that we would just get over it?

• 1:28:48Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, if you...

• 1:28:49Speaker 00

  Is it so commonplace in their life?

• 1:28:51Speaker 01

  Not in their defense, but let's think about it. They've gotten over so, the MAGA people have gotten over so much. Like with flip flops, Ukraine, Iran, like

• 1:28:58Speaker 00

  You can't get over it.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  Life and death.

• 1:29:00Speaker 00

  You can't get over it.

• 1:29:01Speaker 01

  January 6th. Vital issues. I, I mean, I got, I could, I could think forever. Like so many campaign promises, which were alleged and then didn't happen, right? IVF, right? Like that was supposed to be a big one. The vaccine, that was a big one for some people. Building the wall, which never happened in the first, like, dude, I could literally give you a spreadsheet list for a whole other show of just shit that was supposed to happen, which didn't happen. But the Epstein one seems to be the one that people for some reason decided to just not let it off. And I, I do want to give credit to a lot of people out there. A lot of people out there who are sticking to their guns on this story. And I can tell you, this is the most shit that I get.

• 1:29:36Speaker 00

  How do you feel about the current administration? Hold on one second, one second. What do you mean this is the most shit you get in Washington?

• 1:29:41Speaker 01

  Oh, they have the whitey whoa, you're so obsessed with Epstein, nobody cares, man. Like you're in the mythology and they're always like, you're a, you know, it's, they literally sound like the liberals. From the Latin, from when I used to talk about this before, conspiracy theorists, there's nothing there. They're, dude, they're sending me this, all this apology about, yo, man, these girls, like, they were lying to Epstein about their age. And I was like, have you ever read the law? By the way, the law says that that's not a defense. Florida statute, which Epstein was convicted under, it literally says not knowing the age is not a legal defense.

• 1:30:10Speaker 00

  This is, this is, this is one of the grossest narratives that I'm sure has come down, down from some like right wing think tank where it's like, you know, the girls were procuring other underage girls.

• 1:30:20Speaker 01

  They were in on it.

• 1:30:21Speaker 00

  Yeah. So now we're going to villainize teenagers.

• 1:30:24Speaker 01

  Consent, right? Exactly. There's no such thing as consent for an underage girl. That's [BLEEP] dude. And yeah, if you manipulate a young, how is it that we can understand this for everything else? If you manipulate somebody to do something against their will, or put them in a bad situation where they're, hey, look, he specifically went after the girls who were troubled or had bad family situations, who needed a couple hundred dollars here or there. I mean, the same thing. They're like, oh, he was just flying in European hookers. That is illegal. Like, I literally feel like I'm going crazy. You cannot fly Russian hookers to the United States to fuck them. That is a violation of the Mann Act. That is explicit interstate prostitution. Like, I, I feel like I am losing it whenever it comes to this. And they're like, You're feeding all of these conspiracy theories of and and have I

• 1:31:09Speaker 00

  Why are they so caught up?

• 1:31:10Speaker 01

  Have I brought up anything that hasn't been literally verified?

• 1:31:12Speaker 00

  No.

• 1:31:12Speaker 01

  I try to couch everything I say.

• 1:31:14Speaker 00

  Why do you think they're so?

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  We'll get to the pizza gate stuff. I'll even show that to you and I'll couch it.

• 1:31:17Speaker 00

  No, no.

• 1:31:17Speaker 01

  And exactly what it is.

• 1:31:18Speaker 00

  I want to talk about that too. I want to talk about like some of the most salacious and absurd things in it. But like, why do you think that they are so committed? Why do you think DC is so committed to wiping SO?

• 1:31:27Speaker 01

  Because for them, it's a problem. They see everything through partisan lens. For them, now it's a problem for Trump, ergo, you're creating problems for this administration. I go, I don't give a fuck.

• 1:31:35Speaker 00

  Like, is there a part of them that look at, looks at this and they're like, there are underage girls being trafficked? And there's no accountability? Is there no part of them where you look them in their eyes and you're like, yo, you have kids?

• 1:31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:31:44Speaker 00

  You have nieces, like?

• 1:31:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then they convince themselves that they did nothing wrong. That nothing, if anything did happen, it's all overblown. It's a satanic panic. That's the new one, is that this is equivalent to the satanic panic of the 1980s.

• 1:31:58Speaker 00

  That there are Satanists that are ruling the world that are eating children. Right. And that is a real concern.

• 1:32:04Speaker 01

  And the thing is, is that for them, they, it's so hard to describe the social scene of Washington. Washington exists so on a world of its own where more like questions of morals and all of that are always, they're always pushed aside for power. These are people who give up their families. They give up any earning opportunity. This is their life. This is life and death. Like the success, their ability to have access to the Trump administrate, whatever administration happens to be in power. And this is an entire political class.

• 1:32:34Speaker 00

  Power corrupts, absolutely.

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  Absolutely. Power corrupts, absolutely. Exactly. Like that, that's what it is.

• 1:32:39Speaker 00

  Distort people's brain.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Dude, I see, like I said, and I'm in a weird position because now I know some of these people. Like I knew, like Tulsi, you know what I'm saying? Like with Tulsi, like we sat across the desk.

• 1:32:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:32:50Speaker 01

  I thought it was real. Like I really thought, and listen, I've read a lot of books about politicians who lie to your face, but it's another thing.

• 1:32:57Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 1:32:57Speaker 01

  Like to experience it and to experience it at a visceral level.

• 1:33:01Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:33:01Speaker 01

  RFK Jr., I mean, how many times I interview RFK? Four? How many?

• 1:33:04Speaker 00

  I think three.

• 1:33:05Speaker 01

  Three, four, right. I spent hours with this guy.

• 1:33:07Speaker 00

  What do you think RFK's implications are?

• 1:33:09Speaker 01

  Well, it's not about implications. I'm like, in the way that he's operating within HHS and like they throw out this like shit for the masses on Twitter, but like if you're hardcore ma, like you should be furious about the way that this administration has acted from the USDA.

• 1:33:24Speaker 00

  Well, no, they're only worried about what goes in their bodies if it's not grown up dicks. This is what I'm trying to understand. Bondi just said they're not releasing any files, any more files. Right. That's it? No more files? So the the Cowshie market should be zero for more files getting released this month. But. Somebody is still trading. That's just how crazy gamblers are. Is there like. That's a good point. Nah. That should be easy money right there, or, or.

• 1:33:55Speaker 06

  Insider.

• 1:33:56Speaker 00

  Pam's got an account. Hmm. Pam's got an account on Cowshie.

• 1:34:00Speaker 06

  Baron's doing tricks with the computer?

• 1:34:01Speaker 00

  Baron's cooking up something.

• 1:34:03Speaker 06

  You remember when Trump said that he's like Baron with this computer is just amazing with this computer, the things he can do.

• 1:34:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:08Speaker 06

  It's like, yeah, he's stealing.

• 1:34:09Speaker 00

  Make a hundred million dollars on a fucking coin. Yeah.

• 1:34:12Speaker 06

  What he can do with this is crazy.

• 1:34:14Speaker 00

  So, so they got it at 12, what is that 12 point, 11.4% chance that we get more?

• 1:34:19Speaker 06

  Yeah. It's really just a bet on like, is Pam Bondi telling the truth now?

• 1:34:23Speaker 00

  Well, she's an honest woman. She would always tell the truth, right? When has she ever lied?

• 1:34:26Mark Gagnon?

  And I think we will get more, especially Saga reported today that only 2% of the files actually came out.

• 1:34:33Speaker 00

  So they say it's half, it's 2%.

• 1:34:35Mark Gagnon?

  2% now.

• 1:34:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:34:37Mark Gagnon?

  So if the public finds that out, I'm gonna take, I'm gonna take that prediction.

• 1:34:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, we're getting more.

• 1:34:43Speaker 06

  It might be a little bit. I mean, knowing T Dog, he might release one file.

• 1:34:47Speaker 00

  Just to get Karen another quick 100 million.

• 1:34:50Speaker 06

  Guys, a new file is dropped.

• 1:34:51Speaker 00

  Yo, that is hilarious.

• 1:34:53Speaker 06

  Email.

• 1:34:54Speaker 00

  I mean, yeah, why isn't that what everybody's doing? The second somebody puts an insane amount of money on like, we're invading Iran?

• 1:35:01Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:02Speaker 00

  You just go, oh yeah, that's what's gonna happen, right? Like if you're putting $10 on it, no, but if some guy dumps 2 million, they might be driving the ship, right? Like they got their finger on the button.

• 1:35:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, I had thought I was like, should someone, by someone, I mean me, email Epstein with my dates? Did I tell you this?

• 1:35:21Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:35:22Speaker 06

  With my tour dates?

• 1:35:22Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 1:35:23Speaker 06

  And just be like, hey, fuck you, Epstein. Also, I'm on the road. Come see me here. Then it's releasing the files and then everyone sees my tour.

• 1:35:29Speaker 00

  Well, you would get your ideal audience for sure, like.

• 1:35:33Speaker 06

  Conspiracy theorists.

• 1:35:35Speaker 00

  Conspiracy theorists.

• 1:35:36Speaker 06

  People searching through truth seekers.

• 1:35:38Speaker 00

  Exactly.

• 1:35:38Speaker 06

  People trying to get to the bottom of this great conspiracy.

• 1:35:41Speaker 00

  Your mom finding you in the files would be so funny because that means she was searching.

• 1:35:47Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 1:35:48Speaker 00

  Anyway, uh, let's get Sagar back in here.

• 1:35:51Speaker 06

  Yes, dude.

• 1:35:51Speaker 00

  Before we get rich. I try to be too rich and be invited to, you know, be part of these cabals. Are we off cabals? Are we off cabals?

• 1:36:01Speaker 06

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:36:01Mark Gagnon?

  The Devi talk cabal?

• 1:36:02Speaker 00

  The Devi's, I was like, oh. That's what they were.

• 1:36:06Speaker 06

  Yeah, in a way.

• 1:36:07Speaker 00

  Oh.

• 1:36:08Speaker 06

  Dude, that's gross. Why'd you make it gross?

• 1:36:09Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 1:36:10Speaker 06

  Why'd you make it so gross, dude?

• 1:36:11Speaker 00

  Oh, Mark.

• 1:36:12Speaker 06

  Why does your brain always go there?

• 1:36:13Speaker 00

  Mark, why'd you do that?

• 1:36:15Speaker 06

  Don't flip it, no.

• 1:36:16Speaker 00

  Oh, Mark!

• 1:36:17Speaker 06

  Always thinking of the evil things.

• 1:36:20Speaker 00

  And you're from down south?

• 1:36:21Speaker 06

  No, dude. You're from New York, dude. You live right near Epstein. He was your neighbor, basically.

• 1:36:25Speaker 00

  I have a cabal here. I joined a cabal as a kid. You had to slice some kid in the face. Isn't that what they're called?

• 1:36:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:33Speaker 00

  We call them gangs, but y'all call them cabals.

• 1:36:36Speaker 06

  What is it, the buck fifteen?

• 1:36:37Speaker 00

  Buck fifty!

• 1:36:38Speaker 06

  No, fifteen is the, that's the cabal.

• 1:36:41Speaker 00

  Why, it's discounted?

• 1:36:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:45Speaker 00

  Get to negotiating with the guy cutting your face.

• 1:36:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:36:48Speaker 00

  What about a dollar fifty?

• 1:36:49Speaker 06

  Yeah. Make jokes about negotiating, you little goy.

• 1:36:54Speaker 00

  Fuck you! Don't call me that word!

• 1:36:56Speaker 06

  You wouldn't even understand.

• 1:36:57Speaker 00

  You're a good, you're a good little goy, too.

• 1:36:59Speaker 06

  Stop it. Don't say that.

• 1:37:01Speaker 00

  You are a good little goy.

• 1:37:02Speaker 06

  No, stop.

• 1:37:02Speaker 00

  Al, you're a goy.

• 1:37:04Mark Gagnon?

  I like being a goy.

• 1:37:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're not. Yeah, you're not. You don't get to be a goy.

• 1:37:09Mark Gagnon?

  They nah.

• 1:37:10Speaker 00

  All right. Now, listen, can we get back? Can we get back? We have to respect Sagar's time.

• 1:37:14Speaker 06

  Yes, we're missing two Indians right now.

• 1:37:16Speaker 00

  We know! Arkham, get back from Al's scaly already.

• 1:37:20Mark Gagnon?

  How do you feel about the current administration?

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Well, how do you think I feel about the current administration? Well, how, what's, is it coming across yet?

• 1:37:27Speaker 00

  Well, tell us how you feel.

• 1:37:28Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, how do you feel? Like, you are a conservative like this.

• 1:37:30Speaker 00

  Because we've gotten no shit for criticizing.

• 1:37:36Speaker 01

  I think what I'm the most disgusted by was the rhetorical use of a lot of principles, which I really cared about. So like, let's say, for example, anti-war and Iran, right? And it's especially galling to have sat across the table from some of the people who are now currently in power, who are pushing or excusing this type of behavior. And not only that, who are either silent or actively working behind the scenes, not stopping the obvious, like, look, I could call it a takeover, but that's why I have to come back to, Trump has agency. Trump has agency. He's the one who's decided to embrace this neoconservative agenda, to do all of this insane nonsense with Venezuela.

• 1:38:19Speaker 00

  And hold him accountable for it. Don't chalk it up to the deep end. He's the guy in charge.

• 1:38:22Speaker 01

  Exactly. He needs to be held, but it's also about the people around him, because I now know for a fact, they're not, if you take your role seriously, then you actively work for that type of principle that you ran on, and that you have literally sat across the table from me, and I'm not talking about one person, I'm talking about a lot of different people here, who worked, who were like, they were like, we believe this, like, the United States, we should not go to war with Iran. And so then, to watch.

• 1:38:49Speaker 00

  How comforting was that to hear for the first time in your life?

• 1:38:52Speaker 01

  It's not about comfort. This was a project. I believed in this project. I worked, you know, in many cases, to try and assist this project, like, and not the Trump campaign, but like, I'm talking about the principles.

• 1:39:02Speaker 00

  The ideology behind it.

• 1:39:03Speaker 01

  The ideology, right. Like, I have taken so much shit.

• 1:39:05Speaker 00

  Stopping endless wars.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  I excised myself from professional Washington to go against, like, for the neoconservative agenda. Man, I got, you know, basically professionally canceled over Israel. It's fine, you know, I have my show, I get to hang out with you guys and stuff, like, I don't care about that, but like, there was a cost, man. Like, there was a cost. And so then, to then have those people, like, come into power, and now we're on the brink of bombing Iran for literally no reason, after, by the way, you know, not to derail this too much, didn't we bomb Iran so that we would never have to deal with the nuclear issue? So if we bombed it already to never have to deal with the nuclear issue, why are we currently on the brink of a potential war over the nuclear issue? Because I was told that the nuclear issue was solved during the 12-day war. Oh, that's interesting.

• 1:39:43Speaker 00

  be advantageous to the United States of America, then we get back to Epstein, but to engage in a war with Iran. Why would that be politically, economically advantageous to us?

• 1:39:51Speaker 01

  It's not politically popular, economically is another story. It's economically maybe, you know, potentially useful for the United States to control the Straits of Hormuz, although I would argue that even-

• 1:40:01Speaker 00

  Why would we end up controlling it?

• 1:40:03Speaker 01

  Right, well, of course, because this is about regime change. Like, ultimately, and really, you're saying, "United States, there's really not that much in it for us." The United States-

• 1:40:12Speaker 00

  That's why I don't get it.

• 1:40:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, there's a little country called Israel, for which this is actually of vital national security interest.

• 1:40:18Speaker 00

  So they should handle it.

• 1:40:19Speaker 01

  Let me explain this too.

• 1:40:20Speaker 00

  And Saudi.

• 1:40:20Speaker 01

  How can they, they can't handle shit. The one war they got into, they were getting their ass handed to them, with the United States basically shooting down half the missiles that were coming there, and downtown Tel Aviv still looked, portions of downtown Tel Aviv literally looked like London during the Blitz. Like, it was crazy.

• 1:40:37Speaker 00

  So, so, so the question I, I keep going back to is like, if you can explain to the American people why it's advantageous to us to do certain things, there's a version where they start to go, "Okay, now, I don't love the intervention stuff at all. I don't like the endless foreign rules, I hate it." I thought that that was a seductive talking point, which now they've obviously flip-flopped on, like, they've flip-flopped on everything they said, and it's, it's fucking horrible. But, like, for example, with the Venezuela thing, which I don't love, but the American mind can go, "Wait a minute, we have oil, oil gets cheaper, everything." Listen, the American mind is dip, what you're doing is you're operating in like Washington, right? I'm talking about the American mind, imagine like the propaganda system. Okay, oil is this much, wait, now we have access to more oil? That's leveraging power in the world, things potentially get cheaper here? This is how people can consume things, right?

• 1:41:22Speaker 00

  Do we agree, yes or no? Yeah, totally, yeah. I, I don't see any strategic benefit for the United States of America in engaging in a prolonged war with Iran. If someone can explain it to me, that'd be lovely. It's crazy that they're not even trying to explain it. Like, that should be the most audacious part of this. They're not even bothering to give us a whole propaganda campaign. At least with the bullshit Iraq war, they had the fucking-

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  We can't let the smoking gun be a mushroom cloud.

• 1:41:53Speaker 00

  Is that what they-

• 1:41:53Speaker 01

  That was the line.

• 1:41:54Speaker 00

  Yeah, or the war on terror, whatever these things are. At least they gave us something like, you know what? We're gonna at least trick the American people into thinking that they're the-

• 1:42:01Speaker 01

  What are they saying now? Saddam has something to do with 9/11, remember?

• 1:42:03Speaker 00

  Exactly, they gave us this, they're not even doing it!

• 1:42:05Mark Gagnon?

  They're saying they have ballistic missiles now.

• 1:42:07Speaker 01

  Right. Okay, can I explain that too? Let me explain that too. Just so you guys know, the ballistic missile thing, let's just think about it. Who are the ballistic missiles a threat to? All right? Ballistic missiles are a threat to the United States only when they are intercontinental ballistic missiles.

• 1:42:18Speaker 00

  And if they don't have inter-

• 1:42:19Speaker 01

  Does Iran have intercontinental ballistic missiles? No, okay? They do have regional ballistic missiles, which are capable of hitting what? Israel, that's right. So that becomes the talking point about for a new deal with Iran. The only thing America has an interest in with Iran is the flow of oil through the Straits of Hormuz and the nuclear threat. That's it. And the Iranians are like, alright, you guys wanna talk nuclear? Let's go. But then, at the last minute, after Bibi Netanyahu comes in, we're like, "Oh, but by the way, we also talk about ballistic missiles." And they're like, "No, we're not gonna talk about ballistic missiles." And then, all the front groups in Washington are like, "They don't wanna negotiate in good faith, they refuse to negotiate." Guys, let's just, and I'm not pro-Iran, I'm not pro-Islamic Republic. Let's think first-

• 1:42:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, fuck the regime.

• 1:42:58Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, right.

• 1:42:59Speaker 00

  They just murdered 40,000 people in protest.

• 1:43:01Speaker 01

  Well, I don't know about the number, but the whole point is just like-

• 1:43:03Speaker 00

  We're people murdered a lot of people.

• 1:43:04Speaker 01

  Okay, right, yeah, okay. And now, you know, with the help of Mossad and the United States also, yes, like, let's be honest about some of that. The story just broke. The United States smuggled hundreds of Starlink terminals into Iran to help the protests. Literally, I mean, maybe thousands of Starlink terminals. The Mossad was literally bragging in Israeli press about how they were arming the Iranian protesters, right? So, it's a little complicated, isn't it? But, just to even come back from that, the point around the whole Iran question is that this is an Israeli problem.

• 1:43:35Speaker 00

  So they should handle it.

• 1:43:36Speaker 01

  This is an Israeli problem, but they can't handle it, as they proved in the 12-day war.

• 1:43:39Speaker 00

  They shouldn't have that problem.

• 1:43:39Speaker 01

  Only the United States can handle it. Even in the 12-day war, it takes the full force- Of the US empire to make sure they don't get blown to shit, right? And this is the biggest problem. That that even 12 day war. It took 25% of US interceptors just for that 12 days. That was just to defend Israel. Now imagine if we have to start defending ourselves.

• 1:44:00Speaker 00

  25% of our entire.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Entire stockpile.

• 1:44:02Speaker 00

  All around the world.

• 1:44:03Speaker 01

  Our whole global stockpile. That interceptors 25%. And if we get into a real conflict, we're fucked. That was me. We need to at least make sure if we're gonna go all out. It needs to be for something truly vital for us. And this is not it. And the reason why they're they don't want you paying attention. If you start learning this ballistic missile stuff, you're gonna go crazy. But that's why they don't want the American people engaged.

• 1:44:28Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And I don't think that there should be anything wrong with having this perspective. I think as an American, you're allowed to look out for the interest of your country. And see why and see why that that would be.

• 1:44:36Speaker 01

  I mean, they're gonna call me an anti Semitic just for that. I'm literally, I've I I will never forget the first time I was ever professionally called anti Semitic. Was the remember when the US Israel bombed an Iranian embassy in Syria, which is crazy, right? They said it was an IRGC base. Okay, whatever. Every embassy in the world is a spy craft base, just so we're all clear. But so they bombed it. And then Iran fired missiles at them, right? And then America shot all of them down. And I said something like modest proposal. The US military should just shoot down stuff whenever it's attacking America. And everyone was like, look at this like disgusting display of anti Semitism. Because we shot down the missiles that were going to Israel.

• 1:45:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I mean.

• 1:45:15Speaker 01

  Which they started it. No, did they not? They bombed an embassy.

• 1:45:18Speaker 00

  Well, to that I would say to that I would say it's like, are you giving us forewarning that you're gonna do that? Have we agreed with that action? If you expect us to defend you.

• 1:45:28Speaker 01

  For us.

• 1:45:28Speaker 00

  Well, I think if you if the expectation is us to defend you, then we have to be. The we have to be aware and we have to sign off on whatever military action is gonna require defense.

• 1:45:37Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:45:38Speaker 00

  And if you're operating with impunity there, but just expecting defense. And I think that that might be taking advantage of the relationship.

• 1:45:43Speaker 01

  The way that they operate from the Doha strike. I mean, come that was so insane. The Qatar strike that happened, which this is a US basically protectorate where you're just blowing people up. Uh, with, I mean, who? Knows whether it was prior sanctioned or not.

• 1:45:56Speaker 06

  But there's other countries in the region that also would want regime change with Iran.

• 1:45:59Speaker 01

  Definitely UAE Saudi, even that kind of depends because they want regime change, but they don't want destabilization. Whereas Israel does want destabilization. They want the Syria model. They want it to basically be a collapsed state. Where a rump state where you can constantly have.

• 1:46:13Speaker 00

  That's just gonna make it more dangerous to everybody around.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  No, not really, because you're removing the bigger threat, which is the nuclear issue. They don't care about if it has destabilization and migrants and all of this other civil war like that. If anything, that benefits them because it takes out a regional competitor. That's what happened to Syria.

• 1:46:28Speaker 00

  Organization.

• 1:46:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:29Speaker 06

  But there's so many American allies that want this to happen.

• 1:46:32Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I don't know. See, that's the thing. If you look at the reporting, at least what's happening behind the scenes. From what we've seen now so far, the Saudis and the like, these people may hate the Iranians. They may be against Iran. They're not pushing whatever the current Israeli position is, which is decapitation strike.

• 1:46:47Speaker 06

  Right. Yeah. I mean, we should do it the old fashioned way. Send Kermit Roosevelt in and throw some newspapers around.

• 1:46:53Speaker 01

  Well, he did a great job, right? Yeah, he was very successful at his job.

• 1:46:56Speaker 00

  Okay, back to Epstein. Unless there was something else. Oh, you know, sorry. You were talking about how you felt about the current administration. I think it's really cool that you're willing to talk out and you're willing to criticize.

• 1:47:06Speaker 01

  Oh, well, thank you. I mean, that's always kind of been my thing. Uh, yeah, I've, I never.

• 1:47:11Speaker 00

  Shows that you have standards and you're not just captured by the party or even captured by the audience of the party.

• 1:47:16Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 1:47:16Speaker 00

  I think that that's a very important thing.

• 1:47:18Speaker 01

  As you guys know, people will stick with you if you actually at least try to stick to what you really believe in. And if you look at a lot of my comments, like, it hasn't changed. You know, it's one of those things where I'm like, who changed in this relationship here?

• 1:47:30Speaker 00

  Well, I think that there's, there's all the times where it's like, there's different, there's different moments in, in history where you'll have more social utility based in your skillset and then less.

• 1:47:39Speaker 01

  Yes, that's right.

• 1:47:39Speaker 00

  So like, you know, if you're the guy that is saying the war on terror is stupid while the war on terror is happening and a lot of people hate it. All of a sudden, you're probably going to be crushing it and people are going to want you to organize the world for them.

• 1:47:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Speaker 00

  So I think that's a very, but I think it's noble that if people are not, or an administration is not living up to your standards or the promises that they made you, that you were actually really excited about. Right? That you call them out. And I see a lot of people that are doing this mental gymnastics to like, kind of justify what's happening. And there's this version where you just want to shake them and be like, you, you don't have to do it. Your people that listen will actually respect you more if you don't do it. Because they're gonna see you as an honorable person and willing to go, hey, I'm gonna call out the people in power, even if those are the people about that I thought were gonna do something beneficial.

• 1:48:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're absolutely right. And also, that's the only way you have it. Look, I've also learned this. I've actually, I've only been really doing this professionally for like 10, 15 years. Presidents come and go, you know, but we're actually, we're always gonna be here. A lot of these people, I have seen politicians be flashes in the pan, who in, you know, two years will be, you know, stratospheric, on the rise, and then a couple of years later, who? Beto O'Rourke, a good example. What's he doing right now? You know, these guys come and go. And at the end of the day, like, all you have is yourself, your integrity. And if you want to keep doing this in this business, I've also seen a lot of commentators ride all those waves, where they're, you know, the highest of highs, and then what, a year later, the lowest of lows?

• 1:49:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, or they're just chasing trends.

• 1:49:03Speaker 01

  Or they're chasing trends, exactly.

• 1:49:05Speaker 00

  Exactly. Yeah, I think that you're gonna see, I think, I think one thing that I've kind of know is from the administration is that like, people assume that they just do what they want, the classic authoritarian approach. But when you see that they flip so quickly based on public sentiment, right? Like, you saw it happen with ICE in Minneapolis. You saw it happen even with ICE when I think the farmers were complaining. They're like, yeah, we don't have anybody to work the farms. And they're like, oh, ICE is not gonna talk about the farms, right? Like, there's this immediate backtrack of what they're doing. You've seen it with certain tariff stuff. You saw it with Greenland. It's like, so the idea, it's, I don't know, there's something kind of beautiful in it, which is like protest does work.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Guys, Epstein, the whole reason we're talking about this. This whole episode is a result of our public pressure. The last time I was on here, they said that it was done and dusted. And now, we have 3 million files. Like, we don't have all the files. It's only 2% of the files. We have some of the files. That's pretty cool.

• 1:49:58Speaker 00

  It is cool.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  That's only because, and I want to, massive shout out, Ro Khanna, Thomas Massey, these guys laid it out on the line. I don't think people understand, they were dead. This bill was going nowhere. They were, it looked like a vanity project. And then, they just kept grinding and getting signatures. And then they beat the President of the United States. Forced his ass to sign it in the middle of the night, something he didn't want to do. He said he wouldn't sign it. He had to sign it. It was the biggest L he's taken his entire presidency.

• 1:50:28Speaker 00

  Well.

• 1:50:29Speaker 01

  That's democracy.

• 1:50:30Speaker 00

  And it's a beautiful thing to watch.

• 1:50:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool.

• 1:50:32Speaker 00

  And so to that point, when you see how willing the administration is to flip when public sentiment turns, especially their base, but when things look ugly on TV, I think there is like, you know, I was talking to Pod Save guys and they had a good point. It's like, you know, he's an entertainment guy. He's watching like the news and when the images look ugly on the news.

• 1:50:52Speaker 01

  Oh, he knows.

• 1:50:52Speaker 00

  He knows and he starts to change his tone. So what's interesting about the Epstein stuff specifically is the pushback is monumental.

• 1:51:02Speaker 00

  But the flip flop hasn't fully happened yet. They gave you like, they gave you like a semi flip. They hear some files and now they're trying to shut it down again.

• 1:51:11Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:51:12Speaker 00

  I don't think they can run away from this thing.

• 1:51:13Speaker 01

  Ah, I hope that you're right. We have to just keep doing so. Their hope with Epstein files transparency was, first of all, remember they violated the law. The day that they were supposed to release the files, they didn't release the files. They barely released anything. It took weeks. It was incompetently done. They redacted names that they were supposed to redact. They unredacted names that they were supposed to redact. That was a complete mess. Even by the way, right now, to this day, they keep removing and then re-adding files to the Epstein database. Like there were, if you search Trump's name, there were some there. There were originally, they were taken off. In the time that I've been doing this, the reason everything in my spreadsheet is captured on Twitter or in an article is because I can't link to the original because in some cases, they've been taken down, as you all saw for the redaction process.

• 1:51:56Speaker 01

  But the point for pressure is to understand what we're dealing with. We were dealing with a, as we've, you know, to say for the umpteenth time, a vast network of unaccountable financial, political and media elites who were engaging in immoral behavior. And in many cases, those people either knew about, were complicit in, potentially involved in many of these crimes. And that these crimes run the gamut, yes, from the more salacious stuff, all the way to mind-numbingly boring financial or tax- Crimes, but they all bear investigation, right? That is the point where we shouldn't let up. And we should also, I think everyone should really be informed about this. Cause everyone tangentially is like, oh, Epstein, he was a creep.

• 1:52:41Speaker 01

  And like, I think they kinda know, but like always my, you know, hope in doing episodes like this or my show is to like, fill in all of the lines for the stuff of your suspicions. And also to like, bring you back, because part of the problem with, you know, is total explosion on the internet. People will fall for the most low IQ stuff. And then sometimes I'm like, no, let's, let's comment back. Sometimes you're right though, by the way, like sometimes those people are actually correct. And we can validate some of their, you know, crazy conspiracies. But that's why I think it's really important. And why also it's so disappointing. A lot of serious journalists have dropped the bag on this story. You know, for the intel connection, all of the stuff I laid out here, I was on here six months ago. I laid out the whole case. It was all there. It's all there and it's only now. And now they're like, oh, he's Russian. He's a Russian asset.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  You're like, come on, you know, you know, my colleagues, Ryan and us, like we're doing all these stories about less Wexner Iran. It's all out there for the, for the taking.

• 1:53:32Speaker 00

  Why do you think they're not doing it?

• 1:53:33Speaker 01

  I think they're afraid.

• 1:53:34Speaker 00

  They're afraid of lawsuits or they're afraid that it would implicate some of their, what?

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  It would implicate their people. It'll stop their access. I mean, doing these stories does not come costless.

• 1:53:45Speaker 00

  What does implicate their people mean?

• 1:53:46Speaker 01

  Okay, let's say if you're at the New York Times and you have a Jerusalem bureau and you start reporting all this stuff about Israel and Epstein. And then all of a sudden your Jerusalem bureau guy gets his visa revoked. Like now what do you do? Well, what's important to you, right? I mean, it's, and that's, that's a basic example. And that shit happens all the time. Bloomberg news had people, they had their people pulled out of China because they wrote some story about the Chinese, you know, the Chinese premier or something like that. This happens constantly. And this is exactly why interconnected corporate media is very dangerous because they always prioritize stories. Remember, I think I told you guys about this, the ABC news reporter who was leaked on camera, who was like, oh, I had the whole Prince Andrew Epstein story, but we should, I forget her name. Robach, maybe Amy Robach? I think that might be it, but uh, she was like, we had the whole Prince Andrew story,

• 1:54:31Speaker 01

  but we shut it down because they threatened our access to the royal wedding for ABC news, right? Like, but that's reality. Like that's, that's what this stuff looks like.

• 1:54:40Speaker 06

  Newspapers are like billboards to sell ads to 60 year olds.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:54:44Speaker 06

  So like they're not gonna compromise these sources to show this shit.

• 1:54:47Speaker 01

  This is, I mean dude, the royal wedding, that was like a multi-billion dollar product, right? For, for all of these people.

• 1:54:53Speaker 00

  So, so they're just as interconnected and interdependent.

• 1:54:57Speaker 01

  Of course. And also, they, I mean, think about it. Media conglomerates are just as directly implicated. Okay, actually, I don't even have it in here, but do you want to find?

• 1:55:07Speaker 00

  God, I do not want to do a thing where like-

• 1:55:08Speaker 01

  Do you want to find that Ellison, uh, the Ellison wire transfers? There were wire transfers from Epstein to David Ellison. There's something, you look, look at it. It was definitely in the files.

• 1:55:17Speaker 00

  But this is the thing, I don't want to do the thing where we like pat news, new media on our backs or whatever like that. But because like, but the fact that we don't have the luxury to be as interconnected.

• 1:55:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, you're right. That's the only reason we can do it.

• 1:55:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, we don't have the luxury to be as interconnected with all these people because we are new.

• 1:55:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:35Speaker 00

  You know what I mean? Like 30 years from now, who the fuck knows? Like Sagar's kids could own a fucking massive media platform.

• 1:55:41Speaker 06

  A Russian billionaire's gonna come in and be like, hey, here's a bunch of money. Can you not talk about us? And then podcasters will stop talking.

• 1:55:47Speaker 00

  Well, didn't they do that to a bunch of podcasters first?

• 1:55:53Speaker 00

  So, but, but so example, so right now, I guess some of us are uniquely positioned to be able to talk about this stuff and ask these questions simply because we're not part of the internet connected web and want to be able to get pictures of the royal wedding. Like, how fucked up is that?

• 1:56:09Speaker 01

  What is this one? Epstein writes to his lawyer, have one of your cronies ask to see the mortgage to Mar-a-Lago cash from Electricians Union. Oh yeah, this is about, this was to a reporter, I think, and it was about Trump. And it was specifically about asking to see the mortgage to Mar-a-Lago cash from Electricians Union. His driver, Matt, was the bagman, $30 million loan from the casino to Donald Trump backdated. So this was alleged about, I think it was about some Epstein compromise, uh, apparently on Donald Trump. But, uh, the important stuff to remember, like within all these emails, is not only just our current president and many of the people who work for him, it's the billionaire global elite. So like, we haven't even talked about the Bill Gates STD thing, which is crazy. It's beyond crazy. And- One of the reasons why, you know, a lot of people have said that it's a lie.

• 1:56:52Speaker 00

  Melinda is hot.

• 1:56:54Speaker 01

  Can we put the Bill Gates antibiotics thing up here on the screen? Right, so this was, so I want you guys to notice, this is in a sent email. Now, do you remember what I showed you earlier from my own reporting? Because one of the things that Bill said was, this is fake, this is all a complete fantasy. Bill Gates, in his defense.

• 1:57:11Speaker 00

  He sent it to himself for some reason.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  He sent it to himself, I have no idea why. Well, didn't I show you guys earlier that Epstein routinely sent himself emails? You would only know that if you've read thousands of his emails, which I have. He routinely would memorialize and send things to himself for explicit purposes like this, for his lawyers, potentially for blackmail purposes. And this is the email where he says that Bill Gates got STDs from these Russian hookers, and then asked Jeffrey Epstein for antibiotics so that he could secretly give it to Melinda without her noticing. Now, to be clear, Bill Gates denies it. And Melinda Gates, I don't know, I mean, I don't know if you guys saw her reaction. She doesn't deny it.

• 1:57:48Speaker 00

  She says it's sad.

• 1:57:49Speaker 01

  She was like, it's sad, something like that. Which, actually, the last time I was here, we were talking about that. And I explicitly was like, I think she knows more than she lets on.

• 1:57:58Speaker 00

  We said this, right? And she got out early.

• 1:58:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:58:00Speaker 00

  She was insider trading. She shorted the Gates stock.

• 1:58:05Speaker 01

  I think she found something out. And by the way, it's not just his cheating, because he's cheated for years. That's on, like, literally on the record.

• 1:58:11Speaker 00

  Didn't they have, like, an agreement?

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Who knows?

• 1:58:13Speaker 00

  Where, like, he gets to go to...

• 1:58:14Speaker 01

  At that level, I have, you know, who even knows, at that level, how a real relationship could ever function? But clearly, the Epstein thing was something. Like, it was enough for her to be like, whoa, I'm out. I talked about the Leon Black situation, right? Where he had to pay in a settlement. Reid Hoffman, that's another one. Let's Play on the Island, Griffin, I have that email.

• 1:58:35Speaker 00

  I saw somebody bring that up about with Reid.

• 1:58:37Speaker 01

  Richard Branson, Bring the Harem.

• 1:58:39Speaker 00

  There's no way.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  Dude, he's...

• 1:58:41Speaker 00

  There's no way Richard Branson is involved in this.

• 1:58:43Speaker 01

  I'm just saying.

• 1:58:44Speaker 00

  No, but I saw somebody call out the New York Times for that, that they, like, didn't include Reid Hoffman in the list of people that were interconnected.

• 1:58:52Speaker 01

  Oh, I think the all-in guys, yeah, they may be right, actually, that's a good point.

• 1:58:55Speaker 00

  What about Calcanis? No, Jason, Jason, why would you do this? Why would you say, you cannot, you cannot, you cannot say, I didn't talk to him when you know that you talked to him. When you literally talk to him. You have to do the RFK thing and be like, we're digging for dinosaur bones. You have to like lean the fuck into it. Because then when it comes out, people go, okay, you are lying. Right. You have lied and once we see you as a liar.

• 1:59:23Speaker 01

  I barely knew the guy and then here, I spoke with Jason Calcanis, this is literally an email from Jeffrey Epstein.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  There's also Steve Tish, I'm sure you guys have seen the Giants owner. That one's bad, by the way. I mean, that's bad.

• 1:59:37Speaker 00

  I mean, he couldn't even say that he didn't find girls. Like, he's like, he had to be like, they were legal.

• 1:59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, he said, the specific email, he says, pro or civilian or working girl? You're like, dude, there's no innocent explanation for this. Like, it's straight up, there is literally no explanation for this whatsoever. Like, he was procuring girls on your behalf.

• 1:59:58Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:59:59Mark Gagnon?

  The thing I can't wrap my head around is like, it seems like America, we're just more concerned with just outing the people who are in the files instead of like prosecuting them.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  Right. That gets to my earlier point, remember, about foreign governments? So I showed you guys, and I have some of that in the accountability section. Griffin, we already showed the French one, we showed Peter Mandelson, but like.

• 2:00:20Mark Gagnon?

  Norway.

• 2:00:20Speaker 01

  Norway, Slovakia. Let's put those up there so that they can see them. Because these are important, like.

• 2:00:26Mark Gagnon?

  Former prime minister.

• 2:00:27Speaker 00

  And I think what they did is they made him step, uh, no, no, I think they're actually investigating him or something like that, right?

• 2:00:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, so Norway's former prime minister is charged with gross corruption over Epstein links. And then in Slovakia, they actually, the prime minister's national security advisor had to resign over Epstein links.

• 2:00:45Mark Gagnon?

  What do you think the public can do to force their hand? Because I feel like the public is what forced their hand to release the files.

• 2:00:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:51Mark Gagnon?

  Like, can we just change direction and be like, hey, we want to see some prosecutions?

• 2:00:55Speaker 01

  Right. I think, I think that the best way to do that is to channel your energy through the current process, which is Ro Khanna and Thomas Massey. Like, they're not dropping the ball. And also, keep involved at the democratic level because this means. If you're representative, let me explain this. Representatives care about nothing. These are not principled people.

• 2:01:12Speaker 00

  What do you mean representative?

• 2:01:13Speaker 01

  Like your House of Representatives. Your congressman's greatest dream is to go viral. That's all they care about. I wish I was joking. So, what the best thing you can do is to reward them. Is to say, "You will go viral." As long as you pressure the administration about Epstein. They need to turn every appearance of every one of these officials. Every time they're in front of Capitol Hill. There's gonna be an Epstein question. You can never let them escape. Right? And like, that's the only way that this will become a thing. Is if they know that there's enough public and political pressure. As we all saw through the democratic process. That's, and the way, let's, let's use the power of virality for good.

• 2:01:54Speaker 00

  Yes, yes. You're addicted to attention.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:01:57Speaker 00

  Make sure this is the attention.

• 2:01:59Speaker 01

  Right, these people are narcissists. All they want is attention. So, let's give them attention, but only for the right reasons. Be very careful with your narcissism, with your rewarding of narcissism.

• 2:02:08Speaker 00

  I've seen certain people on the right being critical of people on the left. Like, maybe now, calling these things out. And they're like, "Oh, you're just calling out because, you know, it could hurt Trump." And it's like, "Good." Whatever your reason for calling it out is, it's okay. Because it's the right thing to call out. Who gives a fuck what your reason is? I mean, I imagine.

• 2:02:28Speaker 01

  That's by the way, a successful political movement. When I was a crank talking about this on YouTube. Now it's a national story. It was like me and like, maybe like 15, 20 other guys.

• 2:02:36Speaker 00

  We put it on Netflix.

• 2:02:39Speaker 00

  We want credit!

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  Okay, great, like, that's my point.

• 2:02:42Speaker 00

  We had to use a lot of allegedly's.

• 2:02:43Speaker 01

  Guys, we were cranks, no? Like, we were literally looked at as cranks. That was a national movement.

• 2:02:48Speaker 00

  I will say, credit to Netflix. Like, we were naming all these big names. And we didn't get pushback.

• 2:02:54Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 2:02:55Speaker 00

  We only got pushback about one person. Ellen DeGeneres had vagina smell. That was the only time that Netflix was like, "Ah."

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  That's the only note you got.

• 2:03:05Speaker 00

  We got a special coming out with her de-hypert. Make a Finding Nemo joke? And we were like, "Yes." And they were like, "Okay."

• 2:03:13Speaker 00

  But like, to be honest, I, this is, and again, I can't believe I'm defending kind of the big institution right here, but, but I mean that, like, you kind of need the institutions to go, hey, we're gonna put this kind of stuff out, and this is important. And then, after years, with people like you speaking out, a bunch of other people speaking out, you know, maybe us putting a little something out, a little pressure, this starts to mount. And it looks like we're starting to see something. I think when, to what you were talking about, like, why do we want to see all these people punished? I think it's because the feeling is that nobody gets punished. Right? So we're like, we need to see somebody go down.

• 2:03:46Mark Gagnon?

  I feel like we just want to see them, like, named, but like, no one's calling for a punishment.

• 2:03:51Speaker 01

  Oh, I want more than that. See, that's the worst part, is, let's go to the accountability section, Griffin. All of the people who are being held accountable for this right now are just private citizens. Which, by the way, like, is fine, but that's a sickness in our system. So, for example, Kathy Rummler, we talked about this.

• 2:04:04Speaker 00

  Oh, you gotta bring that up.

• 2:04:06Speaker 01

  Lawyer, she's, uh, let's put this up there, she just was, yeah, she would just step down as Goldman's top lawyer.

• 2:04:12Speaker 00

  This is a perfect example of, like, having a crisis PR team handle something well, because they said she stepped down because of connections to Epstein and the emails. And they didn't go into the actual interaction that they had. So this is Goldman Sachs top lawyer, and I think she was also working in the-

• 2:04:28Speaker 01

  Obama.

• 2:04:29Speaker 00

  What did she do for Obama?

• 2:04:30Speaker 01

  She was the deputy White House counsel.

• 2:04:31Speaker 00

  She was the deputy White House counsel for Obama, and she's Goldman's top lawyer.

• 2:04:36Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:04:37Speaker 00

  Can you bring up the email correspondence that Mark sent us earlier?

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, yes, I'll send this to you, uh, Griffin, just one moment.

• 2:04:46Speaker 00

  Again, there are people that are mentioned in the Epstein files that are mentioned tangentially, you know what I mean?

• 2:04:52Speaker 01

  She's in there so many times.

• 2:04:54Speaker 00

  Right, but like, this is a very specific interaction.

• 2:04:56Speaker 01

  I'm texting it to you, Griffin.

• 2:04:57Speaker 00

  And I think it's worth looking at, because, yeah, go.

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is, uh, let's say, let's see, "You need to talk to the boss," this is from Jeffrey Epstein, from Kathy, she says, "Doesn't look like you're prioritizing your schedule effectively, how are you gonna manage all this week?" This is UNGA week, that's UN General Assembly week for the uninitiated. So the boss will be in town, I'll be here all week. You may get sick of me just sat down on the train so can talk freely. Epstein says, "Girls?", careful, I will renew an old habit." Then he says, "This week, Thiel, Summers, Bill Burns, Gordon Brown, Jagland, Magnolia President, Hardi Pure, Boris, Gates, Jabor, Qatar, Sultan, Dubai, Coslin, Harvard, Leon Black, Woody, you are welcome, a welcome guest at any time."

• 2:05:44Speaker 01

  I've reported, we've reported that email before, but that's like a who's who, where he goes, "Girls, careful, I will renew old habit." Anyway, here's all these famous, rich and powerful people that I'm meeting with while they're in town for the UN General Assembly.

• 2:05:56Speaker 06

  That email, I think, just kind of encapsulates everything. People are like, "Oh, how did they, how did he get away with this? Like, how did people let it happen?" And it's like, he's putting it out in the open. He's making a tongue-in-cheek reference to his prior conviction, trying to procure a minor. "Girls, I'm gonna go back into an old habit." And then, at the same time, just goes, "Look at all these amazing, famous, wealthy people that I can put you in contact with."

• 2:06:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:06:17Speaker 06

  So in all of the Epstein files, what is the craziest email that you feel like everybody missed?

• 2:06:22Speaker 01

  The most interesting email is this connection of the House of Rothschild to Jeffrey Epstein. And what we find in the article, as you guys can see, Ariane Rothschild sending thousands of emails there to Jeffrey Epstein. She is at the head of this bank in Switzerland, Edmond de Rothschild. Edmond de Rothschild, at the time, was facing a lawsuit, or a problem with the Department of Justice.

• 2:06:46Speaker 06

  In America.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  In America. The Department of Justice was alleging that Edmond de Rothschild, the bank in Switzerland, was helping wealthy Americans dodge taxes. So what they decide is that they'll pay a fine. Now, to negotiate that settlement, they hire two individuals, Kathy Rummel and Jeffrey Epstein. And, Griffin, can you go to most interesting email, just so we can see the exact text? It's my own tweet of a screenshot of their email. He says, "I think he will find 45.5 penalty, that's 45.5 million, legal, Kathy plus Pillsbury, around 10, 10 million for legal fees to Kathy." Me, 25. All less than 80, pretty good. So, they paid 45 and a half million to the Department of Justice.

• 2:07:31Speaker 01

  Epstein was paid 25 million to broker that deal. Kathy and her team paid some 10 million dollars. Now, by the way, the reason why this puts it all together for me is you have the Rothschilds, you know, this famous storied family in the history of Europe. And you have them negotiating with our Justice Department, the American Justice Department. Who do you hire? If normal people in Wash- Again, I'm from Washington. I know how this works. There are 10 law firms which you hire. You don't hire Jeffrey Epstein, unless you're hiring him for a reason. And when you hire him for that reason, it was to negotiate with the DOJ. Now, who's he negotiating with on behalf? Who, what influence does he have?

• 2:08:13Speaker 01

  You have the former White House Deputy Chief of Staff to President Obama, working for you. And what you do is you get that settlement knocked down. How did that happen? That's the story for me. The House of Rothschild, Jeffrey Epstein, Swiss banks. You know, this is where, by the way, what did I talk about earlier? Epstein's influence and money laundering? Now, does Swiss banks maybe have anything to do with that?

• 2:08:34Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:08:34Speaker 01

  Right, oh, it would never, right? They would never engage in the movement and the housing of dirty money. Like, this is my point.

• 2:08:41Speaker 00

  Honest Swiss?

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  Well, they are honest. They're honest in their silence.

• 2:08:45Speaker 00

  Honest good Swiss?

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  They'll take money from anybody, but that-

• 2:08:49Speaker 00

  They'll take credit, too.

• 2:08:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, oh, yep.

• 2:08:52Speaker 00

  Right? What do we know the Swiss for?

• 2:08:54Speaker 01

  That is my thing.

• 2:08:55Speaker 00

  What do we know the Swiss for?

• 2:08:55Speaker 01

  What, credit?

• 2:08:56Speaker 00

  Chocolate.

• 2:08:57Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, chocolat.

• 2:08:58Speaker 00

  There's not a single fucking cocoa tree in Switzerland.

• 2:09:01Speaker 01

  Is that true?

• 2:09:02Speaker 00

  Of course not.

• 2:09:03Speaker 01

  I didn't know that. Yeah. I'm trying to think about it. I only went there once. It's a great country.

• 2:09:07Speaker 00

  You'll never see one, because it doesn't grow there.

• 2:09:11Speaker 01

  No, I'm saying it's grown and stuff, but how do they get the expertise of chocolate?

• 2:09:16Speaker 00

  I wonder what countries in Africa they might have colonized to get all those cocoa.

• 2:09:21Speaker 01

  I thought, okay, I'm gonna have to look into this actually. Cause I thought it was a South America thing, anyway.

• 2:09:26Speaker 00

  Well, both. They got it there too.

• 2:09:27Speaker 01

  Coming back to the Rothschild thing, you have the storied bank, you have the head of that institution, or one of, you know, the primary parts of the institution, hiring Epstein, his associate, and actually, if you continue reading the way that it all went down, is at various times, he's using his network as the Rothschild bank is ongoing, is going through all of these changes. So at one point, he's like, "Why don't you meet with my friends at Apollo, Leon Black, right? Why don't you meet with Kathy Rummel and hire her?" So he's using his social network of all of these other people involved in the files to actually set up meetings with the new House of Rothschild and the bank in order to broker some potential deals, some tax advice, flipping things around, some investment vehicles,

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  various, Aoud Barak at one point is potentially involved. Like, my point is just that he uses his whole social intelligence, money laundering and all of that network, brings it together for political influence to negotiate this one deal for the Swiss bank. So even though that bank story is kind of like, is kind of peripheral, if you think about it, like, it's not the biggest story in the world, that's his whole influence. That's everything. It's the Swiss banks, it's like, the US government.

• 2:10:36Speaker 00

  It's not for the Swiss banks.

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:10:38Speaker 00

  It's for the powerful Americans that are hiding their money.

• 2:10:41Speaker 01

  Hiding their money around.

• 2:10:42Speaker 00

  That's what I think gets lost in all this. Like, we hear the Rothschilds, "Oh, he's just helping out the Rothschild bank." No, no, no. He's helping out the Epstein class here.

• 2:10:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:10:50Speaker 00

  Because they're gonna have to pay even bigger penalties for dodging taxes and hiding their money in that Swiss bank.

• 2:10:55Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:10:56Speaker 00

  So the Swiss bank is leveraging maybe their relationship to do it, but this is him just helping out his boys. And once you get helped by him, now you're implicated forever. So now you're also silenced. Right? You're doing the deal with the devil, right? "Oh, this guy's gonna save you 100 million," or whatever, Leon Black.

• 2:11:10Speaker 01

  150 million.

• 2:11:11Speaker 00

  So, 150, but now, you can, now you're tied in. So for 150 million dollars, you're tied to the pedophile forever.

• 2:11:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:11:18Speaker 00

  Now, the question is, how much

• 2:11:20Speaker 01

  Well, and they were tied for years before that.

• 2:11:22Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 2:11:22Speaker 01

  And that's the craziest part.

• 2:11:23Speaker 00

  There are other things, but there are people which they do something one time, and then they'll continue to do it.

• 2:11:27Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:11:27Speaker 00

  And maybe they're aware of, you know, his actions in the past of what he was convicted of, or maybe they weren't, but once they become aware, they know that they can't remove themselves from it. It's over, you're toast.

• 2:11:35Speaker 01

  And that's how you end up in such a, "I barely knew the guy," right? Which is what Rothschild said, "Oh, I knew him a little, I regret any of my past association." Like, when you look at all those emails, you can see like the names of all the people who were emailing back and forth with him. Like, it's unbelievable, the extent of all of these like wealthy, not only business titans, academia. That's, man, that's another thing where it gets dark, like with the academia stuff. His obsession with eugenics.

• 2:12:01Speaker 00

  Yeah, explain this. Let's get into the salacious stuff.

• 2:12:04Speaker 01

  Alright, like, let's do it, dude.

• 2:12:05Speaker 00

  Tim Dillon had an amazing take. He was talking about, uh, the pizza and jerky.

• 2:12:09Speaker 01

  Oh, uh, pizza jerky.

• 2:12:11Speaker 00

  And he's like, he's like, "Yeah, of course." Like, I mean, it makes total sense that the most wealthy people on the planet that have access to the best restaurants and the best private chefs would be obsessed with jerky and pizza.

• 2:12:20Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:12:21Speaker 00

  Of course, there's nothing else here.

• 2:12:22Speaker 06

  I mean, there's an email with Epstein and-

• 2:12:24Speaker 01

  Well, so I actually do think, that email, I'm pretty sure that's about the restaurant Cannibal, which, it was just a restaurant. Like, people are misinterpreting that.

• 2:12:30Speaker 06

  Well, there is one with Epstein and a guy who's like a massive urologist, I forget his exact name. And he emails him saying, "Hey, let's meet up, I would love to go grab pizza and grape soda."

• 2:12:41Speaker 01

  I have that if we want it. I have the, uh, that's in Pizzagate.

• 2:12:44Speaker 06

  I don't know a ton of billionaires, but how many of them are going out for pizza and grape soda?

• 2:12:48Speaker 00

  It does sound a little odd.

• 2:12:50Speaker 06

  Like, again, I don't know what it is, it could be drugs.

• 2:12:52Mark Gagnon?

  Grape soda, it's not bad.

• 2:12:54Speaker 01

  I wanted to let you know, I appreciate the pizza. This is better-

• 2:12:57Speaker 00

  That was the closest thing there was to a black person. Singular mention of grape soda.

• 2:13:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to let you know, in the crew, we really appreciate the pizza today. Thank you for letting us do that. Next, uh, you mean Radiating With A Soft Glow, Look Of Bliss? Yeah, that's the pizza, dot, dot, dot. Let's go.

• 2:13:16Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 2:13:16Speaker 01

  Uh, what else do we have?

• 2:13:17Speaker 00

  That's better than a Chinese cookie.

• 2:13:19Speaker 01

  This is better than a Chinese cookie. See attached, "Let's go for pizza and grape soda again." "No one else can understand." Dot. Go, no.

• 2:13:29Speaker 01

  Whatever that means. And yeah, so there you go. There's multiple pizza references in there. Again, look, some of it had an innocent explanation. People pointed to the jerky thing. That was about a restaurant, I believe, called Cannibal. So I want to be responsible in the stuff that I'm saying. This one, I haven't seen the innocent explanation.

• 2:13:44Speaker 06

  People have pointed out the muffins thing. There's a lot of references to muffins, but then-

• 2:13:47Speaker 01

  And shrimp as well. Have you seen that one?

• 2:13:48Speaker 06

  The shrimp one is weird. But there's also references to an actual muffin recipe.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:13:53Speaker 06

  That just seems like it's muffins.

• 2:13:54Speaker 01

  It could be muffins. Let's go. Can we put Snow White, the next one, up here? This is where I'm going to show you guys the stuff, which is legit and has no current innocent explanation. Or I, I challenge you to find one for this one. Quote, "The Snow White was effed twice as soon as she put her costume. Smile, smile, smile."

• 2:14:14Speaker 06

  Yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, I don't know how she explained it.

• 2:14:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 2:14:17Speaker 00

  And we don't know what it's from.

• 2:14:18Speaker 01

  It was a character.

• 2:14:21Speaker 01

  Uh, no, we have no idea. I will say that Jess Staley, who was the former CEO-

• 2:14:26Speaker 00

  Who wrote Snow White?

• 2:14:26Speaker 01

  Uh, Barclays Bank, he actually, uh, who, Walt Disney?

• 2:14:32Speaker 01

  Is it a book?

• 2:14:32Speaker 06

  It's the Grimm Brothers. Yeah, it's the Brothers Grimm.

• 2:14:34Speaker 01

  Is that a Brothers Grimm?

• 2:14:35Speaker 00

  And where are the Brothers Grimm from?

• 2:14:36Speaker 06

  Brothers Grimm.

• 2:14:37Speaker 01

  Actually, no.

• 2:14:38Speaker 06

  I'm gonna go German.

• 2:14:40Speaker 01

  Let's see.

• 2:14:40Speaker 00

  I mean, if that's what they're calling like-

• 2:14:42Speaker 01

  German academics. Wow.

• 2:14:43Speaker 00

  If that's what they're calling like these like white European prostitutes.

• 2:14:48Speaker 01

  Snow White, but anyway, oh, I was, forgot on the Snow White thing. The Snow White, there was a reference, there was a reference to Snow White by Jess Staley, where he said, "Snow White," something, what, can you find it, Griffin? Jess Staley, that he was the former CEO of Barclays Bank. He actually resigned because of Epstein. And previously he worked at JP Morgan and he was, uh, at the Nexus with, uh, Epstein. They, they exchanged like hundreds of emails. But he previously had made a statement about meeting Snow White. Or he's like, "Snow White says hi." So maybe Snow White was one of these, you know, yeah, there you go, right there. Maybe, what did he say? He sent an email, uh, answered Beauty and the Beast.

• 2:15:24Speaker 06

  Say hi to Snow White.

• 2:15:25Speaker 01

  Oh, well, yeah, say hi to Snow White. "What character would you like next?" Epstein responded. Staley replied, "Beauty and the Beast." You know, actually, now that I look at the date, in July 2010, can you go back to mine? That might be the same timeline, isn't it?

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  July, oh yeah, there you go. July 20th, so maybe we just solved something right here. Anyway, we're not alleging anything, Mr. Staley and his lawyers, until his name is redacted, but you could put those two things together for yourself.

• 2:15:52Speaker 00

  So he had a favorite and then he would dress her up as children from...

• 2:15:56Speaker 01

  Can we put hairy coconuts up there? This is another one. Here we go.

• 2:16:01Mark Gagnon?

  I mean, this is reassuring for all the people that text and use like emojis, like snow and leaves and stuff like that.

• 2:16:08Speaker 00

  Yeah, they'll never figure it out.

• 2:16:09Mark Gagnon?

  You'll get away with it, guy.

• 2:16:11Speaker 01

  I ordered sweet young coconuts from Thailand for you. They just arrived, very yummy. I was going to ship them to you in Paris, but I hear you are coming back, so I will send them to 71st with Sarah. Just so you don't have to drink juices from old hairy things.

• 2:16:25Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, God. No, I think that's about coconuts.

• 2:16:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, I could be, but I don't know. I'm just, there's one, you know, haven't seen an explanation. It's, listen, I've never seen anybody refer to coconuts that way, or like who would ship coconuts across the globe, Paris, Thailand.

• 2:16:39Mark Gagnon?

  That person not...

• 2:16:40Speaker 01

  I've been to Thailand, there's plenty of coconuts. You can ship any coconuts, you know what I mean? Yeah, they're available on the street. There's literally guys who will crack them open for you and do the whole thing with the machete. You can just stick your straw in it.

• 2:16:49Mark Gagnon?

  Unfortunately, Thailand is also known for something else.

• 2:16:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's what I was gonna say. Or, or you could think about something else.

• 2:16:57Speaker 00

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• 2:20:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, give me some shrimp.

• 2:20:32Speaker 01

  I tried to Photoshop the cream off the twin shrimps. Quote, "I like shrimp, but not so much if it's too pink, although I'm definitely more into white than into any other color. Two are Russian, some are shrimp. You throw away the head and keep the body. She will give you a massage. She looks better than shrimp anyways and good with massages. Code word shrimp." Again, I don't know what's going on.

• 2:20:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, they're bad at it.

• 2:21:00Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 2:21:00Speaker 00

  What are people alleging the shrimp means?

• 2:21:03Speaker 01

  I have no idea. That's my point is just that it sounds strange. What do you think?

• 2:21:06Speaker 06

  I mean, the implication is quite obviously like some type of sex traffic. Whether it's a, you know, adult prostitute or a young child that's being trafficked. And that's basically how people are implying this. There's also reference to black shrimp, I believe, where they're like, oh, I don't like black shrimp. And so it's like, what even is black? Like, it's not even a thing.

• 2:21:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:21:24Speaker 06

  And so, and then there's also references to like being in an aquarium full of women, like in the same kind of correspondence. So it's like coded fish language to basically describe sex trafficking.

• 2:21:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, as long as you don't have any hammerhead ones, you throw away the head. Yeah, it's, it's, look, and as I said, all of these I've checked, like, these are actually in the files. And anybody who doesn't believe me, you can go and check every email for yourself at any time. It's on the DOJ website. You just have to search the text.

• 2:21:50Speaker 00

  Tell me about the sulfuric acid.

• 2:21:53Speaker 01

  Oh, I think that one's been debunked. Uh, let's see. I have it, I think I have it in unsubstantiated.

• 2:21:58Speaker 06

  I got it.

• 2:21:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, 55 gallon sulfuric acid. So there was concern, people were like, oh my God, were they dissolving bodies? He ordered 55 gallon containers of sulfuric acid. If you actually read the purchase order, I think it gives it away. It says 55 gallon drum sulfuric acid, materials for conductivity pros, replacement patient cable dash R O plant. Apparently on the Virgin Islands, there's a lot of reverse osmosis water treatment plants. So that was the potential explanation. For that one. I will say it was on the same day that the FBI opened up the sex case against him. So I'm noting the context there, but I was contacted by an expert who said that the RO plant is most likely an explanation for reverse osmosis and that that's what that would be used for.

• 2:22:43Speaker 01

  There was another concern. Can we put the trapdoor photo up?

• 2:22:46Speaker 00

  Or, or what else could we order that would make sense?

• 2:22:50Speaker 01

  Listen, you're, you're, all right.

• 2:22:52Speaker 00

  On an island, but also destroy evidence.

• 2:22:56Speaker 01

  Here's another one. This trapdoor that everybody saw, this one I still have never, I, I, so like there's this, there's this trapdoor that leads from the floor directly into the ocean. Again, someone on the island contacted me and told me that it's common to have something called a water cisterns that you need access to in some of these island homes and that that could potentially be the, I'm just, I want to offer the, without, you know, not with context, just so people aren't immediately drawn.

• 2:23:24Speaker 00

  This one wasn't as compelling because they're like, it's a trapdoor that leads to the ocean. It opens out, so it's inherently not a trapdoor.

• 2:23:31Speaker 01

  It's likely they said something to do with water cistern management, but I'm just, I'm putting these there because you may have seen these on social media, but as I showed you already with the hairy coconuts, with the Snow White thing, with the pizza, the grape soda, those are ones where we have not yet seen any innocent explanation. Can we put, you will be 22, not 14? That was another important one.

• 2:23:51Speaker 00

  Have the people in these email correspondence been investigated?

• 2:23:55Speaker 01

  Uh, well, it depends. In some cases, yes. In some cases, no. Uh, in many cases, we don't even know who they are. As you saw in the Snow White email, it's all redacted, right?

• 2:24:04Speaker 00

  But then you said that.

• 2:24:05Speaker 01

  Even in some of these, Kate, like, look here, and, and these, like, these are all redacted in terms of who the sender and all of that is. This might be because it's a victim, but like, in terms of his own behavior, you can actually see here directly, he tells a 14-year-old, or he says, quote, "You are going to be 22, not 14 years old" in this email exchange, and he even is instructing her, so I'm going to read some of this. "Now that I understand, try to take some nude photos. Be open, brave, sexy, wild, dance, jump, have fun, live. I think you should take some of yourself first. I wanted you to be free with yourself." Blah, blah, blah. Then he follows up. I watched. She says, I watch porn, of course. Okay, I will be at home. I will try to take some of myself.

• 2:24:45Speaker 01

  He says, try today to be free. You look great. Think sex, intimate videos, have fun, learn English. And then he continues about the, you are going to be 22, not 14. That's in the email exchange. So, there you go. Uh, it's definitely a bit strange, uh, whenever you're reading the entire, like, exchange. I, I really, you know, I really have no idea.

• 2:25:06Speaker 00

  Mark, what else is going on in there?

• 2:25:07Speaker 06

  Well, I'm curious, what is the TOEFL test?

• 2:25:10Speaker 01

  Uh, to- oh, TOEFL. That's an English exam. Yeah.

• 2:25:14Speaker 06

  So this is a, a girl, a child, that he's trying to traffic from a different country?

• 2:25:18Speaker 01

  Well, I, I mean, you could read it a couple of ways. He says, you are going to be 22, not 14. Like, for example, you want to be free. Like, maybe he's saying, you are 22? I don't know. Like, there's a couple of different ways that you could read this email. She could be a 22-year-old girl, saying, don't act like you're 14 years old, uh, whenever it comes, right? So, like, I'm just giving you a- but you can also, guys, you're getting a little bit of a sense for, like, how disgusting this guy is, like, openly talking of. And like, it's like this goading, like, gross behavior that, like, girls will talk about when they're on dating apps. So he'll, he's like, out there like, do you watch porn? You know, like, yeah, why don't you send me some selfies?

• 2:25:50Speaker 06

  So many of those.

• 2:25:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that's just, it's just thousands of these.

• 2:25:54Speaker 06

  If you Ctrl F into the files on the actual website, it's like, oh, I want, I want to see you naked. Send me pictures with hundreds of those. The strangest one that I haven't seen anyone talk about is the book recommendations.

• 2:26:04Speaker 01

  Which one?

• 2:26:04Speaker 06

  There's a few. Obviously, he recommends people read Lolita.

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:26:07Speaker 06

  And regularly.

• 2:26:08Speaker 01

  Actually, in his hacked email, we found that even right before he died, he was buying new copies of Lolita. So he owned a first edition and he had an annotated copy. So he was obsessed with this book.

• 2:26:19Speaker 06

  He's obsessed. And I've heard people suggest that it was potentially like a pass.

• 2:26:24Speaker 01

  For Lolita?

• 2:26:25Speaker 06

  Yeah, like, having a physical copy of the book was somehow some type of access point, or some type of signal. Because people are referencing and emailing him saying, which copy do you want me to use? Do you have a copy I can borrow? Things like that, where it's like, if you recommend a book to me, I would just be like, hey, I got the book and I read it. Or, hey, thanks for the book. But he's saying, when I arrive, do you have a copy of the book?

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:26:45Speaker 06

  So it's like, they need to access it for some reason. The other one that's very strange is that there's direct recommendations from Epstein to, I'm assuming victims, saying, "Read the story of O. I think you'll like it." Now, the story of O is, and if you Google, you actually probably get like a more exact definition. I obviously have not read it. But the story of O is a book written in like the early 1900s that is a woman's like story about a girl that gets basically like bound and tortured by a man. And it's like an extremely graphic book that was like banned.

• 2:27:18Speaker 01

  A French erotic novel in 1954. Yeah, exactly. It's some BDSM fantasy. Ritualized dominance of submission, psychological surrender, power, ownership and identity, erotic humiliation and devotion. O gradually relinquishes autonomy, undergoes physical and emotional transformation in pursuit of the experience as love and fulfillment.

• 2:27:40Speaker 06

  Yeah. And he's recommending this book to multiple different people saying like, "Hey, you'll enjoy this. Read this. Like, basically embody this book. I think you'll find it valuable."

• 2:27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 2:27:48Speaker 06

  Which again, I think just showcases like how sort of demonic his proclivity is for this like power dynamic when it comes to sex.

• 2:27:56Speaker 01

  He was obsessed.

• 2:27:57Mark Gagnon?

  What is the other book about?

• 2:27:57Speaker 01

  Huh?

• 2:27:58Mark Gagnon?

  The other book you guys knew?

• 2:27:59Speaker 01

  Lolita? Oh, Lolita? It's a very famous book. It's a novel. Yeah. It's a guy marries a woman and he ends up sleeping with her stepdaughter, right? Is that Lolita? Lolita's the... I haven't actually read the book. But he starts sleeping with a stepdaughter and the whole book is like a justification about how she kind of seduced him and he's obsessed with her.

• 2:28:21Speaker 06

  And she's a young girl.

• 2:28:22Speaker 01

  And she's, yeah, she's like 12 years old, like this entire time.

• 2:28:25Mark Gagnon?

  Oh, so like some Wayne Allen shit?

• 2:28:26Speaker 01

  It's a book about pedophilia, basically. It's like a book. The people, it's a very famous book and people say that the book shows how much of a monster he is because he's all, he's like blaming her. But obviously, like the people who read it, who are into this, look at it as like an inspirational story. Right? Yeah. So it's like, he didn't really read it the right way.

• 2:28:46Speaker 06

  I'm not weird.

• 2:28:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. He's like, "Oh, there are more people like me." But like, I think the book is about how he's a monster. The book is like, uh, the book is to show like how disgusting he is.

• 2:28:55Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:28:56Speaker 01

  But he obviously didn't get that, you know, in his reading.

• 2:28:59Speaker 06

  It's like mind comp. It's like different people read it for different reasons. They were with Scarface all the time.

• 2:29:05Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:29:05Speaker 06

  They were like, "Dude, Scarface is sick, dude. I want to be Scarface."

• 2:29:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. You gotta watch the end of the movie. You're like, "No, it's like, just see the end of the movie." Yeah, that's not, that's not the point of the movie.

• 2:29:13Speaker 06

  Should we do the play? That we learned today.

• 2:29:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, let's do the plant one. That's a fun one. Paralytic drug. This is from TMZ. I actually looked into this one specifically for this pod as I was on the way here. Uh, so TMZ reported on this email. I checked the email. It is legit. They say Epstein may have had collection of highly poisonous plants known to produce a drug that blocks free will in its victims. And so the drug that is referenced is about this zombie plant drug. And specifically a type of drug which produces its angels trumpets, which are toxic and they produce a drug called scopolamine. And so I looked into it. There are two emails in the Epstein files that reference scopolamine. And one of them, here, let me find it. I have the exact screenshot.

• 2:29:56Speaker 01

  It says forwarded email to Epstein scopolamine powerful drug growing in the forests of Columbia that eliminates free will from the Daily Mail that was forwarded.

• 2:30:06Speaker 00

  Real, real quick, is Snow White Sleeping Beauty?

• 2:30:10Speaker 06

  Uh, no.

• 2:30:11Speaker 00

  Those are different characters?

• 2:30:13Speaker 06

  Uh, different ones.

• 2:30:14Speaker 01

  No, it is. Yeah, they are different. They're definitely different.

• 2:30:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, Snow White's posted with the dwarves.

• 2:30:17Speaker 01

  Snow White is the seven dwarves. And then Sleeping Beauty is its own story.

• 2:30:20Speaker 06

  That's right. Prince Charming.

• 2:30:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:30:22Speaker 06

  Dun dun dun.

• 2:30:23Speaker 01

  Uh, let's do the Ohio gynecologist. This was from local news in Ohio. Uh, Epstein made regular payments to Ohio State head of gynecology.

• 2:30:36Speaker 00

  Okay. And who also lives in Ohio, by the way?

• 2:30:39Speaker 01

  Leslie Wexner.

• 2:30:40Speaker 00

  Who?

• 2:30:40Speaker 01

  Leslie Wexner.

• 2:30:41Speaker 00

  Oh, Wexner, his main financier.

• 2:30:43Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:30:44Speaker 00

  Interesting.

• 2:30:44Speaker 01

  Langdon received as much as $25,000 every few months. Langdon told NBC the payments were for consulting work and he had no knowledge of Epstein's crimes. Along with the quarterly payments, Langdon was received 10 packages from Epstein associates. In all, he spent more than $200 mailing things to his home. The files do not detail what was, uh, named. A man named Eric messes Epstein saying, Dr. Langdon's 25 quarterly payment is due. Please approve. A few hours later, he wrote that Epstein's company had billed Leslie and Abigail Wexner in advance, as we have for prior years for the payment. There you go.

• 2:31:23Speaker 06

  That's how he gets the drugs.

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  I have no idea what that hole is about.

• 2:31:25Speaker 06

  The gates is STDs allegedly.

• 2:31:27Speaker 01

  There's multiple of these types of things where he's off paying. We didn't even talk about the US Virgin Islands. We should do that for a second. Let's do Epstein pays tuition of US Virgin Island governor's kids. So you know where little St. James is. He was literally paying the tuition of the US Virgin Islands governor. Their children at the school and he wasn't even the only person that he was paying for. And remember their congressman Stacy Plaskett was live texting Jeffrey Epstein in the middle of a congressional hearing. And she has never apologized for it. And in fact, the emails show that she went to the island. You can go to the link right before that. Democratic Representative Stacy Plaskett went to Epstein Island in 2014.

• 2:32:12Speaker 01

  Previously worked for the Epstein fixer in the Virgin Islands who accompanied her to the island. Plaskett is the only sitting member of Congress, it seems to have visited the island right now.

• 2:32:21Speaker 00

  She's still sitting?

• 2:32:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's still, she refuses to apologize. She, what did, what did she say or Crockett say?

• 2:32:26Speaker 06

  Jasmine Crockett defended her.

• 2:32:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, Jasmine Crockett was like, she was emailing a constituent or something like that. Whatever it comes to.

• 2:32:34Speaker 01

  You could literally watch it on video. You can watch the video. Of course I have.

• 2:32:37Speaker 06

  It's absurd. You see her literally, who she.

• 2:32:40Speaker 01

  She's, she's questioning someone.

• 2:32:42Speaker 06

  Going after someone else.

• 2:32:43Speaker 01

  She's questioning someone live in a congressional hearing.

• 2:32:45Speaker 06

  I think it was, what's his name?

• 2:32:47Speaker 00

  And Epstein is coaching her through.

• 2:32:49Speaker 06

  Literally saying, hey, ask about this. Ask about this. And she goes, she literally asked about it. And she doesn't know if it's a name or an acronym. So she's literally just like impractical jokers.

• 2:32:58Speaker 01

  It was Michael Cohen. It was Michael Cohen. Yeah.

• 2:33:01Speaker 00

  Trump's lawyer.

• 2:33:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, she's talking to Trump's lawyer and Epstein is giving her things to talk about. And she's just saying it live in the hearing. Basically being like, oh, what do you know about this? Doesn't know if it's a person or an acronym.

• 2:33:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:33:13Speaker 06

  And it's just straight up like impractical jokers getting told shit while she's saying it.

• 2:33:17Speaker 00

  These things are absolving Trump or incriminating Trump?

• 2:33:20Speaker 06

  It's putting Comey or it's putting Cohen under pressure.

• 2:33:24Speaker 00

  Oh, so it's meant to

• 2:33:25Speaker 01

  It's actually bad for Trump because Cohen was there testifying.

• 2:33:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:33:28Speaker 01

  At that, remember, he turned on Trump.

• 2:33:30Speaker 00

  That's what I'm trying to understand. Is Epstein trying to incriminate Trump?

• 2:33:33Speaker 01

  Well, it's actually from the emails, it does seem like Epstein hated Trump near the end. He was kind of a Russiagate, like libtard, uh, near the end of his life. Like, he was ordering all these books. He was encouraging people to ask questions about Trump.

• 2:33:43Speaker 06

  Putting pressure on Cohen and making Cohen go, oh, how, how do you know about that? Like, that's basically the energy that it's giving off.

• 2:33:49Speaker 00

  This is, he's a great person to be hated by.

• 2:33:52Speaker 01

  Oh, Epstein?

• 2:33:53Speaker 00

  You hope that he hates you. Right? Like, why, why does he hate Trump?

• 2:33:58Speaker 01

  I don't know. Uh, it seemed, it could have been the business. Look, there's a variety of explanations. The fallout allegedly over Mar-a-Lago. There's a theory that they got into some spat over a real estate deal. Right? And then I maybe because of the Bill Clinton, like you just said, I, I hadn't even realized that he had brought it up one time in 2016 about Bill Clinton, his relationship to Epstein. Epstein didn't like that.

• 2:34:20Speaker 00

  Where are his enemies? Where are Epstein's enemies? This is what I find so peculiar. Where are the people that are, I mean, even Putin has Navalny.

• 2:34:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:34:31Speaker 00

  Do you know what I mean? Where are his longstanding enemies? The people who are like, fuck this guy. He's a piece of shit. Maybe they, for whatever horrendous fucked up reason, they look past the, the human trafficking. Because maybe they do those things as well. But maybe they hate him because of other things, other business deals that have gone wrong. Maybe they have ideological differences about the world and they don't like him as a power player, which is obviously like the Navalny Putin thing. Where are, where is the opposition to him?

• 2:34:59Speaker 06

  I mean, they can't speak up.

• 2:35:00Speaker 01

  They're afraid. Yeah. Maybe they're afraid because he's too powerful.

• 2:35:02Speaker 00

  You're more afraid of Epstein than Putin?

• 2:35:04Speaker 01

  Uh, well, I don't know if that's necessarily true, but it's like, it's one, well, first of all, Epstein not nearly as, or maybe he was. I, it depends on how you define power. Uh, but the question around like

• 2:35:13Speaker 00

  You understand what I'm positing, right?

• 2:35:15Speaker 01

  It's like, why was nobody out? But the one thing I think that erases a little bit is the victims who fought him in court for 10 years. Right? Like, it took them 10 years.

• 2:35:22Speaker 00

  But the victims are not billionaires in their own right.

• 2:35:25Speaker 06

  That's true. That's the thing. I heard this from Ezra Klein's pod, that he The guest brought up a point that Epstein groomed everyone. That he groomed the girls that he was procuring to come to the island. He was grooming these people, but he was also grooming these billionaires. That he himself was handholding all of them. And someone at his level, at Epstein's level, the amount of money and influence that he had, he has people flying to the island and he's personally texting them and emailing them, "When do you land? What do you need? How can I help you? I'll pick you up." He is personally being the liaison to give them concierge service everywhere they go when he's in control. And I think that he's actively grooming them to the extent that he makes all the rich, wealthy people really happy and he's able to exploit

• 2:36:08Speaker 06

  and, you know, basically sell out in traffic the most vulnerable people that he knows can't go against him.

• 2:36:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:36:13Speaker 06

  So he keeps all of his enemies right here.

• 2:36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you have, I mean, what's astounding is the sheer number, like Elon. And by the way, we haven't even talked about Elon. That was insane.

• 2:36:22Speaker 00

  Like, begging to go.

• 2:36:23Speaker 01

  On Christmas morning.

• 2:36:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:36:25Speaker 01

  With his wife. 6 a.m. with his wife.

• 2:36:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, and Epstein tries to go like, "Yeah, yo, man."

• 2:36:30Speaker 01

  She may not like it here, the ratio is kind of off and he's like, "She'll be fine." Like, "She'll get over it." You're like, "Dude, oh my god."

• 2:36:37Speaker 06

  So that's a great example. You can see Epstein doesn't really like Elon, but is still being very diplomatic and being very nice with him. And saying like, "Hey, the parties are actually canceled. It's not you." Like, he's an absolute operator at all levels when he's dealing with the highest strata.

• 2:36:50Speaker 01

  Or the tour of SpaceX, which, you know, Epstein always, or Elon always said he didn't get, give him one. And then Epstein goes, "Thanks for the tour."

• 2:36:58Speaker 06

  Sarcastically.

• 2:36:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, maybe, but it's one of those where...

• 2:37:01Speaker 00

  Do you subscribe to this, uh, to this allegation that Elon makes that Bill Gates shorted Tesla at the behest of Epstein?

• 2:37:08Speaker 01

  I don't know. I've never followed it. I mean, I feel like nobody, I feel like zero people are trustworthy in that entire story. So it's one of those where I have no clue. And at this point, I'm not exactly in the business of believing Elon, considering how this whole Epstein situation went down.

• 2:37:24Speaker 00

  Of course, you have to be questionable of everybody, but so... I think you were about to bring up one more thing, but then I do have an overall question.

• 2:37:31Speaker 01

  Uh, I think, I think we've hit most of the billionaires that are on my list.

• 2:37:35Speaker 00

  Well, no, I mean, I want you to go.

• 2:37:36Speaker 06

  On this point, I just want to say that there's so many people... I mean, I've just heard justifications where they go, oh, I didn't know. And then people say like, oh, maybe they didn't know. You don't Google every person you get connected to. And I've heard people say.

• 2:37:47Speaker 01

  I disagree with that, but.

• 2:37:48Speaker 06

  As do I. And I've heard people say like, oh, they just look past it because the charge is kind of bullshit. And he says that he wasn't really even in prison that long. And they're able to look past it because it does something better for them. But there are people that got connected to Epstein that turned him down. And there's a bunch of them that just said like.

• 2:38:03Speaker 01

  Joe Rogan.

• 2:38:04Speaker 06

  I want nothing to do with this.

• 2:38:05Speaker 01

  Norm Finkelstein.

• 2:38:06Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. A bunch of them were like, no, man.

• 2:38:09Speaker 06

  They were just like, yeah, I Googled him and this is a bad, this guy is bad. I don't want anything to do with this. And to me, that completely skewers this whole defense of like, oh, I didn't know, I didn't Google it.

• 2:38:19Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 2:38:20Speaker 06

  It's like, well, there's so many other people that did.

• 2:38:21Speaker 01

  And in a lot of cases, the people who said no had way less power, right? They were not nearly as rich. Like, for example, Reid Hoffman, one of his defenses is he's like, oh, well, he would only help me raise money if I went to. It's like, dude, what do you need to raise money for? You're worth like $40 billion. Like, you need help raising money? Or whatever, you know, and you're what, your collective net worth of you and all your friends is going to be in the hundreds of hundreds of billions, right? Why do you need this obscure financier to help you finance like an MIT or Harvard donation? Like, even that explanation passes no smell test for me. Same with Bill Gates. His original explanation was what? Oh, well, he was gonna help me raise money for the Bill and Melinda Gates. It's like, dude, you were one of the richest men in the world. Like, what do you need this guy for?

• 2:39:06Speaker 01

  Allegedly, the real influence campaign was Bill Gates needed him to help him win the Nobel Peace Prize. But honestly, the more that we see now is like, dude, maybe there was something going on in terms of the social life that Epstein has offered, you know, is able to offer him. And then when Bill cuts him off, what does he do? He memorializes this memo to himself about Bill, Bill Gates and the STDs and all of this stuff. Like, that's, that's how it operates, is that he got in with him. Maybe Bill realizes he's a fraud or he gets upset with him. That's, that's exactly when the Epstein email is gonna strike, right? That's when the memo comes. It's like, no, you don't get to walk away from me. I walk away from you if ever at all. And like, that's the, that's the nature of his relationship. Right. It's the nature of his relationship with all of these guys.

• 2:39:49Speaker 06

  Charming and brings you in and if you try to fuck him, then he has stuff on you.

• 2:39:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. He was nasty. I mean, you see it in his communication with his victims, right? And how commanding and controlling is. And then also in the way that like when you cross him, all, all the people who did business with him, they're like, oh, you do not want to be on the other side.

• 2:40:06Speaker 06

  Why? What happened?

• 2:40:06Speaker 01

  Cause he wouldn't pay his bills or he would go through a protracted legal battle or he would call somebody to yell at you. Like his MO was if we're in business, you're going to be my friend, everything forever. But if you mess with me, it's going to be a problem.

• 2:40:19Speaker 00

  So who was doing the punishment at his behest?

• 2:40:21Speaker 01

  Well, he had a lot of lawyers. I mean, he was a very wealthy man, right? Uh, but I can't name all of them. One of the lawyers, you want to look it up? One of the head of the law firm just stepped down. Uh, who was it? Law firm stepped down Epstein?

• 2:40:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:40:33Speaker 01

  Make sure I got his name.

• 2:40:33Speaker 00

  Cause these guys are, they're not co-conspirators in the sex trafficking per se, but they are co-conspirators in terms of the operation. So you look at like a Harvey Weinstein type. Well, well, again, they're not guilty of sex trafficking, but they are guilty of maintaining his power structure.

• 2:40:51Speaker 01

  By the way, this is a no shit thing.

• 2:40:52Speaker 06

  That's their job.

• 2:40:52Speaker 01

  Paul Weiss, Paul Weiss is a massive law firm. Like anybody who's, who knows that this is a very influential. So to have Brad Karp, who was the chairman of Paul Weiss to step down over his relationship with Epstein, big deal, right? Because you could actually see they, Karp once thanked Epstein for quote, hosting him for a once in a lifetime evening. Epstein told Karp, you're always welcome and that there are many, many nights of unique talents. You will be invited often.

• 2:41:21Speaker 01

  Look, let me give the innocent one. He often held dinners and lunches with very wealthy, powerful, rich people, smart people, MIT law professors. A lot of people actually went to those and they didn't know anything about the sex stuff. Now I will say, you know, some of them who did go were like, yeah, even when we were at innocent dinners, there was something off about the guy. Or he would have women who were sitting in his lap, right? At the, at the current meeting.

• 2:41:46Speaker 06

  The paintings around his mansion.

• 2:41:47Speaker 01

  The paintings were all like deeply sexual and, and, and discussed like, so there's, you know, there's not a full off of just doing that. Like if you went in there, you probably knew.

• 2:41:56Speaker 06

  People talk about Diddy parties.

• 2:41:57Speaker 01

  Right, no, literally.

• 2:41:58Speaker 06

  We were all at the Diddy party, but I ain't seen none of that shit.

• 2:42:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. It's like, yeah, but you definitely knew something was wrong. It's like, you definitely knew that the power dynamic, you can smell it, dude. Like when you're, if you're in a room like that, you're like, ah, something is not right. You know, it's like, especially with those pictures. Also, I just do want to return to that thing. I, people were like, oh, well. I didn't, I had no idea. After oh seven, like, I'm sorry, Google exists. The, the charge is registered sex offender. Solicitation of a minor for prostitution.

• 2:42:28Speaker 00

  Is it registered sex offender? I thought that-

• 2:42:30Speaker 01

  He was a registered sex offender.

• 2:42:32Speaker 00

  But I thought the specific charge, the, the sex offender registry was wiped after a year.

• 2:42:38Speaker 01

  I forget, I forget the timing of it, but he had to register as a sex offender.

• 2:42:41Speaker 00

  But I thought that it went away afterward. Like, I thought that was, that was why, part of the reason why it was such a sweetheart deal.

• 2:42:47Speaker 01

  I forget how long the registration-

• 2:42:48Speaker 00

  He could operate as a normal citizen afterwards.

• 2:42:50Speaker 01

  I don't have it in front of me. I, I'd have to look it up. But the registration term, I don't know, but the solicitation charge is out there. It was literally public record.

• 2:42:57Speaker 00

  The solicitation charge, yes.

• 2:42:58Speaker 01

  Right, but it literally says solicitation of, of, for prostitution involving a minor.

• 2:43:02Speaker 00

  Right.

• 2:43:02Speaker 01

  Like, I'm not, I would never meet anybody, like, right? Like, would you?

• 2:43:06Speaker 00

  No, of course not.

• 2:43:06Speaker 01

  It's a single Google, it's simple Google.

• 2:43:08Speaker 06

  And you can go to Wayback Machine, and you can look at what the Google search in 2016 was.

• 2:43:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:43:13Speaker 06

  On Epstein. And you get three links down, you go Miami man arrested in prostitution, and you're like, this is crazy.

• 2:43:19Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, it's like, no, this is not happening.

• 2:43:20Speaker 06

  And then you're gonna continue to like, do business with him?

• 2:43:22Speaker 01

  You can also see, I believe, I don't have it in the document, but there were, I think there was some email where a firm was helping him edit his Wikipedia page, or like, edit search results. So like, he was very concerned, exactly maybe about this, that people were out there Googling him, who he was supposed to meet with, and then they're removing some of the search results, so.

• 2:43:42Mark Gagnon?

  You mentioned earlier that you got the email leaks. Are these different emails from what-

• 2:43:47Speaker 01

  Some of them are in there, not all of them are in there. So one of his emails was hacked by this collective group. They gave access to my colleague Ryan. Ryan shared it with me, actually not just me. Bloomberg News got their hands on it, a couple of other news outlets, and we all went through it. I mean, it has a lot of personal information, so we can't just publish all of it. And, you know, you have to be responsible, but we published, we published most of what we thought was newsworthy. That underage email I showed you, that was, that was some from his hacked email. I don't even know if that's in the file.

• 2:44:15Mark Gagnon?

  Was there an email, you know how he sent himself an email, like, to maybe Blackmail, Gates? Was there one like that about Trump?

• 2:44:22Speaker 01

  Uh, no, there hasn't been one that I've been able to find yet. I haven't, I haven't seen one, at least in the sent email. And I checked, to be fair, you should remember this, he, he changes email all the time. The hacked email that I had access to was only active for a select few year period. Every time you would get in trouble, he would change his email. So there's like 10 emails out there. There's a pre 99 email, there's a 99 to 05 email, there's a 05 to whatever, like his, his legal emails that I had kinda had access to when he was negotiating his plea agreement. That's why it was interesting for me, because it's like a very dark time in Jeffrey's life. But then there's a, Ghislaine changed her email too. She had multiple different email addresses. So even what you see here, there are a couple that are in there. But that's why I think of the Channel 4 story about how

• 2:45:04Speaker 01

  maybe only 2% of what's been released, like that's the whole point. There's still so much out there. I mean, my dream is the 90, is the pre 99 stuff. Is, that's, that's where it all is.

• 2:45:14Speaker 06

  And nobody has touched that?

• 2:45:15Speaker 01

  No, but there's nothing in there, man. I mean, nothing in there. About all, that, that's where Les Wexner, Hoffenberg, you know, Iran Khan, like, that's the real stuff.

• 2:45:26Speaker 06

  Who's got their hands on that?

• 2:45:27Speaker 01

  I don't even know if it exists at this point. I'd be shocked.

• 2:45:30Speaker 06

  Oh, it exists.

• 2:45:30Speaker 01

  I mean, maybe, if it still exists.

• 2:45:33Speaker 06

  Like, there's stuff at like Zora Ranch that's now in the hands of like a new private owner. And like, the DOJ is like, we're gonna investigate what's going on, because there might be bodies.

• 2:45:41Mark Gagnon?

  Yeah, what's going on with that?

• 2:45:42Speaker 06

  But we're gonna get there in a few weeks.

• 2:45:44Speaker 01

  You wanna pull this up, Griffin?

• 2:45:45Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:45:45Speaker 01

  Zora Ranch?

• 2:45:46Speaker 06

  You're not gonna tell someone that you're gonna go investigate where their dead bodies are?

• 2:45:49Speaker 01

  So Zora Ranch was an Epstein property, uh, that has never been searched. Yeah. And by the way, with New Mexico, one of the Epstein-linked politicians that nobody remembers now is Bill Richardson. He died, but he was the governor of New Mexico. He was a very prominent Democrat.

• 2:46:03Mark Gagnon?

  Did he die, or did he die?

• 2:46:04Speaker 01

  No, he, he like died. But, but if you paid attention to, like, I knew Bill Richardson. Like, he was very connected with the Clinton machine. I think he went to North Korea at one point. Like, he, he was a very prominent, like, if you were in the news business 10, 15 years ago, you knew who Bill Richardson was. And he was deeply connected to Jeffrey Epstein. Actually comes out, uh, in some of the files. So just to connect the tissue to Zora Ranch and the New Mexico property, because not a lot of people pay attention to Zora Ranch and the Jeffrey Epstein connection. In fact, I believe it was bought by a Texas politician. Yeah. Or who is running for office right now. But New Mexico has now approved a new commission, if we want to pull that up, Griffin. A quote, "truth commission" on the Epstein Ranch abuse.

• 2:46:46Speaker 01

  Lawmakers said the panel will compel testimony to discover what happened at Epstein's Zora Ranch and who knew about any of the alleged abuse that happened there. But multiple women have said that they were abused at Zora Ranch. I do believe that it was never raided. Yeah, they raided all the other properties, New York, Caribbean, Palm Beach, and Paris. Never touched Zora Ranch, so it's, I mean, look, who knows? I don't know, it's been a long time. I'm not quite sure like exactly what's left there at this point. Like, at that time was the time to like, sit around and gather the evidence. Yeah. This, this just goes to show like, the sprawling nature of the investigation. And even in terms of like, what remains, and it's interesting, let's say, like, in the files,

• 2:47:29Speaker 01

  is what remains most important, and what I kept emphasizing last time, is the money. And can you Google Ron Wyden Epstein Treasury records? I wanted to make a public call for this. These still have not yet been released, and these are like, when we talk about files, this type of stuff that should be. The Treasury Department is sitting on a trove of suspicious activity reports that the banks put together after Epstein's death that detail like, a billion dollars in suspicious wire transfers all around the world. That is what I want to get my hands on. And that's the stuff that's not released. That's the stuff that unfortunately, it's not sexy, like we talked about for politicians. Yeah, there you go.

• 2:48:09Speaker 01

  Wyden expands Epstein investigation with probe of hundreds of suspicious bank melon transactions. Epstein moved nearly 400 million in and out of accounts in a bank of New York melon through 270 wire transfers. That's just one bank. There's multiple other banks that have suspicious activity reports just with stuff like this. This is the whole story. Piecing together where the money went, who it came from. And that is what actually would really implicate and screw a lot of rich and powerful people.

• 2:48:37Speaker 06

  And that-

• 2:48:37Speaker 01

  Because that could show money laundering. That could show the tax avoidance. That could show the shell companies and the payments of in and out and the intelligence networks. See, I mean, who the hell know? Mossad, everybody would be involved with something like this. This has never been, never been released, never been touched.

• 2:48:52Speaker 06

  This wasn't required that it was given to the public?

• 2:48:55Speaker 01

  It's a different, it's part of the Treasury Department. It's a different, outside of the Department of Justice. So that's part of the difficulty with this. But this is the un-

• 2:49:02Speaker 00

  Can we FOIA the Treasury Department?

• 2:49:05Speaker 01

  You can, but this one, you know, ongoing investigation. I mean, we could try. It would probably take years. As I understand, and I'm, by the way, if you're listening to this, some people have seen these files. The investigators from the committee, they were allowed to read them, but they couldn't take any notes. Like, they were allowed to go in and review the file, but they weren't allowed to take any notes, and they're not allowed to talk about it. So I've been trying to anonymously get in touch with anybody who's seen this.

• 2:49:29Speaker 00

  Like who, for example?

• 2:49:30Speaker 01

  People on Ron Wyden's staff, a couple of other people on that, on the committee, the finance committee. So there's not that many people. And even then, I think they technically, they'd be speaking out of turn. But if you want to talk anonymously, I'll protect you. I would love to know what's in the files.

• 2:49:42Speaker 06

  Hmm. Can I ask you a question?

• 2:49:44Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:49:44Speaker 06

  Epstein is gone.

• 2:49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:46Speaker 06

  Maybe he's dead. Maybe he's somewhere else.

• 2:49:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:49:49Speaker 06

  But he's only a cog in this greater machine. So my question is, who is the next Epstein?

• 2:49:55Speaker 01

  I do not know who the next Epstein is. I have a suspicion of where it will come out of. I think I have a section here about-

• 2:50:04Speaker 06

  Which one do you want to start with?

• 2:50:05Speaker 01

  Uh, next Epstein. Let's start with Eric Schmidt, okay? So Eric Schmidt, he's the ex-Google CEO. Here, he was more recently spotted with 27-year-old daughter of a German politician. Let's just say we've often heard about Eric and some of his exploits. But I'm putting this together with a couple of other stories. Can we go to the Elon and Sergey story, for example?

• 2:50:26Speaker 00

  Sergey Brin?

• 2:50:27Speaker 01

  Yeah. So do you guys remember the whole Nicole Shanahan, who was RFK Jr.'s running mate? And she was married to Sergey Brin and allegedly accorded- To this Wall Street Journal article, she slept with Elon Musk, apparently at a party. And yeah, and that was the precipitating of their divorce. And Sergey, by the way, was named sometime in Epstein. And then go to that polyamory article, the next one that I put from 2017. This I have just heard, and the reason I'm putting this all up of Eric Schmidt, Sergey, Elon, and the ins and outs of Silicon Valley's new sexual revolution. This is from 2017, about polyamory. There was and has been now a movement in tech over the last decade of the of transhumanism.

• 2:51:13Speaker 01

  You guys know what that is, like specifically with AI, you know, it's like move past any normalcy and to break boundaries. And one of that was in the area of their sexual morality. And that's why they're embracing polyamory. Well, if you put all this stuff together of the transhumanists and of the questioning, whoever the next Epstein is, it will come from somewhere like this. And I think it's going to come right. I mean, think about it, that's where the money, the power, where's all the, all of US GDP is tied up in AI, in data capital expenditure, it's in the hands of Zuckerberg and Sergey, Google, Amos, Jeff Bezos. God, look at him and his, you know, the whole Lauren Sanchez thing. So I'm just saying it's going to come. And then the rise of personalities like Ayella Girl, we can put her up her, Griffin loves this particular.

• 2:51:57Speaker 00

  Are you guys familiar?

• 2:51:58Speaker 01

  Do you guys know who this is?

• 2:51:59Speaker 00

  No.

• 2:51:59Speaker 01

  She's a Substack girl.

• 2:52:02Speaker 00

  I think she's in Austin right now.

• 2:52:03Speaker 01

  I think she's in Austin. She frequently writes about her sexual exploits and also.

• 2:52:08Speaker 00

  I've seen her on Twitter.

• 2:52:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, she does like research about.

• 2:52:11Speaker 00

  She does like data based analysis on her orgies.

• 2:52:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52:15Speaker 00

  No, she'll like host an orgy and then take data based on it.

• 2:52:18Speaker 01

  The number of men who did this.

• 2:52:19Speaker 00

  The number of men, how many times they ejaculate.

• 2:52:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 2:52:22Speaker 00

  But and then one recently, she took a kid's virginity.

• 2:52:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's right.

• 2:52:26Speaker 00

  In the orgy.

• 2:52:27Speaker 01

  And wrote about it.

• 2:52:27Speaker 00

  And wrote about taking kids virginity.

• 2:52:29Speaker 06

  In the orgy and did a bunch of data.

• 2:52:30Speaker 01

  Anyway, she's very popular. She's very popular in tech. She's very popular in tech.

• 2:52:34Speaker 06

  I believe so.

• 2:52:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, yeah, I'm not alleging, to be clear, I'm not alleging underage abuse in any of these cases. What I'm telling you is painting a picture of all of these prominent tech personalities, where we clearly can see a moral degenerate framework. And obvious, in my opinion, if there were to be a new Epstein, it will come somewhere out of Silicon Valley. As we saw, many of the Silicon Valley people were involved with Epstein. So if there's gonna be a new one, it's gonna come out of this nexus of power, money, control, a belief that we're better than everybody else, building the technology of the future. I mean, shit, a lot of the stuff Epstein was into, like eugenics and, you know, his DNA. Can we put that New York Times article up there from eugenics?

• 2:53:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:53:14Speaker 01

  Jeffrey Epstein's hope to seed the world with his DNA, to seed the human race? Like, he was literally obsessed with impregnating women, yeah, at the Zorro Ranch, at his New Mexico Ranch, like.

• 2:53:28Speaker 06

  Does he have any kids?

• 2:53:29Speaker 01

  We don't know. It's all, it's exactly, there's all these references in the files to stolen babies.

• 2:53:35Speaker 06

  According to Andrew Windsor's former wife, she emails him. Andrew Windsor is Prince Andrew? Yeah. Yeah, stripped of his title, so it's just Andrew.

• 2:53:46Speaker 06

  You get a last name now. You're no longer a Brazilian football player.

• 2:53:52Speaker 06

  But he, his wife or ex-wife sends an email to Epstein saying, "Congrats on the baby boy."

• 2:53:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:53:59Speaker 06

  Right. And then also immediately falls it up with saying, "Hey, I feel like our friendship is so fake, like you kinda like, you know, ghosted me. I feel like you just wanted to get close to me to get tight with Prince Andrew." Which is like, the whole exchange is bizarre.

• 2:54:11Speaker 01

  Isn't it, do I have in there the diary entry? Diary, baby stolen? I'm fairly certain that I do. Let's find, yeah, here it is.

• 2:54:18Speaker 06

  Perhaps it says baby, perhaps it's baby boy.

• 2:54:20Speaker 01

  There was this diary entry, a 32-page diary of an Epstein, this was part of the files. This is so weird. Epstein, a victim, she writes that she gave birth to a baby girl and was used as an incubator. That's what she wrote in, and this is very cryptic and it's very strange. She says, "Controlled all by..." Jeffrey all the time. Go to New Mexico. What in the hell? This makes no sense. What about school? He is now controlling everything when it used to be Ghislaine, who some days acts like she hates me. I'm tired of keeping this secret. I know people are wondering, but I can't tell. I'm exhausted. I don't understand why she's treating me on some days like I'm the enemy when we lay in bed together and she is how she used to be. Warm. She eventually, this is like I said, this is like 32 pages, but at the end she says,

• 2:55:05Speaker 01

  "I miss the person I was before I was made into what feels as a human incubator." And she says, "This is not surprising. There's no such thing as a child prostitute. They are children and cannot consent. They are missing the biggest in my own backyard and so many more." So, yeah, I mean, I mean, look, again, this is 32 year old, 32 pages. It's, it's rambling like we have no idea what this entire thing was about. But I did check. It is an actual entry, which is in there. She alleges that incubation. I will say there have been multiple instances of these transhumanist billionaires. Google the thing about the Chinese billionaire, Chinese billionaire IVF babies, California, where recently in family court, it came out that a Chinese billionaire was paying American models

• 2:55:50Speaker 01

  to have his babies via IVF. He would never even meet them. Yeah, here we go. The China, Chinese billionaire having dozens of US born babies via surrogacy. So he was like paying, sorry, I said IVF previously. He did surrogacy where he would have his, like, his genes or his children like, like impregnated into these surrogates who he'd never met before. And he would be their legal father in the court of law and in exchange would pay these people for years and years, like give them a stipend to raise his children in America. And it's all based on this belief of just like paying people to spread your seed to as many as possible. I think Elon, Elon is involved allegedly in this type of stuff. So is the Signal guy, right?

• 2:56:29Speaker 00

  Pavel Durov, yeah.

• 2:56:30Speaker 06

  With Telegram.

• 2:56:31Speaker 01

  There you go.

• 2:56:31Speaker 06

  He's basically, I think he has a deal where any woman can carry his child.

• 2:56:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:36Speaker 06

  And he'll like pay them a small amount or something to that effect. And anyone on earth can have his kid. And I think it was like allegedly thousands of children.

• 2:56:42Speaker 01

  Right. So there you go. Right. So I just gave you guys like multiple super rich examples. Thousands of children. And there's multiple of these, of these billionaires who are out there.

• 2:56:50Speaker 06

  This is the allegation. I don't know exactly how many. Maybe I'm not being responsible. But I think he has a contract and paperwork where basically he's absolved of any type of like fatherly duties. So this is just a donation.

• 2:57:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:57:01Speaker 06

  But he'll donate to anyone.

• 2:57:02Speaker 00

  What is this about? What is the, is this some like weird flex?

• 2:57:06Speaker 01

  It's no, it's not a flex. It's, it's like Genghis Khan. Like they believe that they're better than us, that they need to spread their seed, that their seed is morally and, you know, is morally and is morally superior, morally and genetically superior to the rest of us. And that they have a social responsibility to perpetuate their genetics in the gene pool as much as humanly possible to achieve domination. And like, it's quite literally about that. And that is, Epstein at his core was a transhumanist. He also, at one point, see if he could find that email where he makes fun of Bill Gates for Christian morality. He like makes fun of Bill Gates for, for being like, oh, Bill is this idiot. He has this Christian idea that all humans are created equal.

• 2:57:51Speaker 01

  Right? Like he was like, what, he's like, what a naive and a stupid belief.

• 2:57:55Speaker 00

  And so why?

• 2:57:55Speaker 01

  That all, that we're all, we're all the same and we're all equal.

• 2:57:58Speaker 00

  I've heard different people have discussions. Like what, what do you think? Like, how do you think somebody comes to these conclusions where they're trying to justify, justify their success or their power?

• 2:58:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:10Speaker 00

  Like where does that come from? Is it like a baked in narcissism that gets wrapped up in some like pseudo-technical justification? So that's it. You're just trying to reframe your narcissism for why you are the supreme being.

• 2:58:21Speaker 01

  Right. I mean, you, we're all in unique position. Like we've actually met a lot of like very famous people or like powerful people or even like successful people. And in my experience, there's two kinds. There's one kind who is like, man, let me tell you, it's pure luck.

• 2:58:36Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 2:58:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Like, you know, it's like, there's one kind who is like, there are 15 other guys who I started out with who were just as good as me. I happened for this, this and this. It all lined up perfectly. I'm gonna make the best of it because I'm very uniquely in this position and I am not better than anybody else. Like in fact, a lot of people who I knew who were better than me ended up not making it and that's a tragedy. And in fact, you should try, a lot of those, those people will try to lift other people up around them, right? And then there's the other kind who was like, no, it was only me, right? And it was, they are weak. They tapped out. They don't have what it takes. Those are the types of people. Who in general will subscribe to this, you know, it's very enticing. You're a billionaire, man. You're in the top point oh, oh, oh, one percent.

• 2:59:20Speaker 01

  Of course, your seed should be spread. You're better than everybody else. You hire everybody around you. Like, think about, even in the best circumstances, for those people to stay grounded. And then how easy is it when there's this whole permission structure, technology, structure, ideology that says, no, you're better. We should just keep cranking it up. Yes, spread your seed as much as possible. Genetically engineer. Oh, if you have a different sexual proclivity, it's okay. The law does not apply to you, right? The law, like Andrew, you texted me. You were like, why do we pay taxes? And I was like, well, man, we don't have influence over the people who have monopoly on the use of force. So we'll go to jail. Whereas the people, you know, like the people who don't pay taxes, if you don't get in trouble for that, you didn't do anything wrong, right? There's no such thing. Everything is in the eye of enforcement.

• 3:00:04Speaker 01

  Like, and like, that's a theory about structural power, which I think is so enticing for people who are very, very, very wealthy.

• 3:00:14Speaker 01

  It's dark.

• 3:00:14Speaker 06

  And then when you ask, like, why are people going in like the administration and not doing anything? It's like, yeah, they got invited on the boat.

• 3:00:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:00:22Speaker 06

  And it's like, yeah, you're in the club. Like, you can either fight us forever, or you can just join us.

• 3:00:28Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:00:30Speaker 06

  And it's like, a lot of them just join, and most people probably would join.

• 3:00:34Speaker 00

  We gotta sink the boat.

• 3:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:00:38Speaker 00

  I can't believe, like, yeah. I never understood that, that feeling that you don't count luck as this massive, this massive assistance in your success.

• 3:00:50Speaker 01

  I know. These people are pathological, though.

• 3:00:52Speaker 00

  Or not even luck. Like, the other one I heard people do, and I like this one too, is, is, uh, and you sometimes hear athletes talk about it, is, uh, I'm not as talented as these guys, so I gotta work really hard.

• 3:01:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:04Speaker 00

  And there's like, yeah, you're giving yourself credit for hard work, but there's a humility built into it, which is all these guys around me are so fucking talented. They're so good, and I gotta find a way to be good as them. I gotta find a different way, and that might just be like, I gotta work twice as hard. So there's this humility built in that is like... Really beautiful, it's also relatable.

• 3:01:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, even giving it to God. Like, if it's sincere, it's like, hey, it's not me.

• 3:01:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:01:28Speaker 06

  It's this thing outside of me.

• 3:01:29Speaker 00

  And they mock people that do that.

• 3:01:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:31Speaker 00

  These people mock people that do that.

• 3:01:33Speaker 01

  Oh, they do.

• 3:01:34Speaker 00

  You see it all the time. Like, somebody might accept something, some award or whatever, and they're like, I really want to thank God for, forgive me this opportunity. They're like, oh, you gotta thank God. Look at you. Why can't you just think you're better than everyone else?

• 3:01:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, imagine that person can't believe what they've accomplished, and they're trying to justify it in some way. And instead of going, I deserve it because I'm better than all of you, they go, there's a fucking higher power, and they just looked out.

• 3:01:58Speaker 01

  Dude, I feel that way being able to do what I do. I'm like, I look back, I look back on it, and I'm like, there was break here, break here, break here, break here. It's like, you better make the most of it, man. There's a lot of guys who you started out with who are not in the position that you are in.

• 3:02:11Speaker 06

  But if you can't get it, I don't think you ever will, because I think it is truly a pathology.

• 3:02:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:02:17Speaker 06

  Right? It's like someone that has like synesthesia, like they can explain to you how like, they can, you know, like see sounds or whatever. But like, you can never truly know it unless you have it. And these people truly have amyglomedia and like a narcissism that is clinical. And it's all, in my opinion, rooted around control. Everything is all control, like destabilizing governments, growing their own portfolios, connecting these people. Even, I think their sexual proclivities and their trafficking crimes are controlled.

• 3:02:41Speaker 01

  Dude, all of his, all of his sex stuff is control. You see it in there. Take the photo, do this. It's all, it's like frame control. Like, everything is about, he has to control every aspect of the interaction, from who he pays to the recruitment, even the act of a massage. Like, it's submissive. He's like, I'm not doing anything to you. This is all about me. Like, the whole thing is about me, right? Like, that was his entire framework.

• 3:03:03Speaker 00

  You could benefit from sex, not with a child, obviously, but with an adult, like, you might actually feel some joy out of this. No, you will feel nothing.

• 3:03:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you will be the only person. You service me. That's it. That's the whole thing.

• 3:03:12Speaker 06

  And more so, like, and again, this came from the pod that, uh, what's, what's the guy's name?

• 3:03:16Speaker 01

  Anand.

• 3:03:16Speaker 06

  Anand did with Ezra, where basically he's pointing out the like, I don't know if this is all pedophiles from a pathological standpoint or just Epstein, but it's this idea that an adult can stand up for themselves. They can push back against you, they can have their own opinions, like they are their own human being. But children can't, or at least with intimidation and fear, they're much less likely to do so. So it is the, it is the sort of zenith of control. That this person is truly just a vessel. I think Virginia Giuffre, even in her book, talks about how Epstein just talked about women as vaginas with a heartbeat, or something to that effect. They're like, you're not a human, you're just a thing for me to exploit.

• 3:03:53Speaker 01

  He has some email in here where he tells them, he's like, don't open your mouth too much, or something like, he's like, nobody actually cares what you have to say. When he's talking, I think it's some girl who was asking him about career advice. He was like, don't open your mouth too much, nobody cares what you have to say.

• 3:04:05Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:04:06Speaker 00

  What does, what does justice look like?

• 3:04:10Speaker 01

  Great question.

• 3:04:13Speaker 01

  I would like to see some semblance of what we have in the UK, which I think is handling it responsibly. The party in power and the ruling opposition, and the opposition decided this is a serious scandal. The party in power had to face very difficult questions, had to allow open police investigations to be had about the royal family and about the person who was part of their government. The House of Lords had to have a discussion about stripping of titles. None of it, to me, reeks of like going too far, because what they're doing is they're just opening an investigation. They're making it so that like, set a playing field, and also setting an accountability

• 3:04:55Speaker 01

  within the culture of their government of like, this is intolerable, we cannot have everyone in government who has been acting like this with Jeffrey Epstein. And what I think is responsible about that is that the party in power, they got hit, they have a real political problem around this. The opposition, both from a political perspective, but also from a justice perspective involving the police, is actually opening investigation into all avenues. That's what I think justice would look like here. Like, everything that we've put up to, let's be clear, like, many of these emails are just allegations, and allegations are not substantive enough to be able to convict someone in court, nor should they in the United States of America. It's great as a journalist to have as much information as possible, but real justice has to be adjudicated through our court system.

• 3:05:38Speaker 01

  And I would want a real investigation over all of the claims, the co-conspirators, the money, and, you know, from the financial crimes, and I think that's what justice looks like. That ultimately, it's about accountability for the people who appear to truly believe that they're above the law, and to just put an end to not just that criminality, but to that mindset and to send a message. Because that's what the Epstein story is about.

• 3:06:01Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:06:01Speaker 01

  That's the Epstein story.

• 3:06:03Speaker 00

  Yeah. And then our justice is, hey,

• 3:06:06Mark Gagnon?

  We charge one person and then put her in a cushy jail and probably we'll get clemency at the end of Trump's administration.

• 3:06:12Speaker 01

  Peter Attia, look, Peter Attia's emails were fucked up. We can admit that, right? Okay, but how is it that he's in more hot water than the Commerce Secretary? That's crazy. That's actually insane that Peter Attia has more of a pylon than the Commerce Secretary of the United States of America.

• 3:06:31Mark Gagnon?

  Well, he's staying at CBS.

• 3:06:33Speaker 01

  Right, yeah, well, sure, but he was at least in hot water, alright? Or that guy, the head of Paul Weiss, Casey Wasserman, he's selling his LA talent agency, boo hoo, okay? We're sorry, but still, I mean, I'm sure it sucks, you know, if you're him, but like, my point is just Casey Wasserman is under more of a under more problems, is facing like financial pressure and all this stuff and is facing more accountability than the Commerce Secretary of the United States of America. That's crazy. Or the current president, who is just acting in an insane way around the story.

• 3:07:04Speaker 00

  It seems like, it seems like they're giving us the people who rely on those institutions of power and have benefited from them, but not the people who are actually part of these institutions of power. And we need to see the people who are part of these institutions and these power dynamics go down. So what are the, based on the information that we have right now, who are those 10 people? Who are those 20 people? Who are those five people? Like, who are people that there's enough, we think, incriminating evidence in the files? It could be child sex stuff, it could be financial crimes, it could be cover up, you know what I mean? Like, is there enough, and we know that obviously Bobby is-

• 3:07:42Speaker 01

  There's not enough in the files to be able to name any of that. I would say there's not enough in the files. And it's irresponsible to give 10 names.

• 3:07:47Mark Gagnon?

  From what we've seen.

• 3:07:48Speaker 01

  From what we've seen, right, from what we have seen in terms of what's public. I would say that obviously Wexner is an important place to look. But I still think, I still think we need much more information. And I, again, I know it's not as sexy, I think the financial stuff will prove everything. I think that is everything.

• 3:08:08Speaker 00

  That is, unfortunately, the financial stuff, I think, is so derivative from the initial story.

• 3:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:16Speaker 00

  Right. And I think is like so far out of the understanding of most people like right now I'm understanding like money laundering and moving money around so we can move weapons around the world. I don't even really know what that means if I'm being honest with you. Like, yes, I know we need to get weapons to Iran and we have to do it through these intermediaries. I conceptually understand it. But when someone goes, there's a child sex trafficking ring, there are kids potentially being murdered.

• 3:08:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:08:42Speaker 00

  And around the world by all the elites. I think the knee jerk reaction from most people is we need justice for that. We don't give a fuck that they're sending some missiles over to Iran. I think that is, that is the sensation. But what you're saying, and I think is probably the most true, is that by solving those financial crimes, it will solve these as well.

• 3:09:02Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:09:03Speaker 00

  Because what's probably the case is the top of the top is that.

• 3:09:08Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:09:09Speaker 00

  And the sex crimes are derivative.

• 3:09:12Speaker 01

  Yes, and they enable the intelligence and the finance. That enables everything else. A lot of the people were involved with him. They probably had no idea. Or if they did have an idea, they looked the other way, but they weren't participating themselves. But he was so useful to them that they, it all kept perpetuating. That's, you know, we talk about a culture of permission. And ultimately, he was allowed to operate in a permission structure. He got to be phenomenally wealthy, unaccountable to the law, build this empire that he was on the top of, where he was orchestrating, you know, geopolitics and various deals with different countries and all this other stuff. And as he got more power and money, the sex empire grew, right? But that it only is able to grow because of the umbrella of the power.

• 3:09:56Mark Gagnon?

  I think what's super damning is all the DVRs, hard drives of the secret cameras.

• 3:10:03Speaker 00

  They have what, 80 cameras in the house?

• 3:10:05Speaker 01

  We have no idea.

• 3:10:06Speaker 00

  Which they say aren't in the files.

• 3:10:07Speaker 01

  We have no clue.

• 3:10:08Speaker 00

  They say they're not in the files.

• 3:10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:10:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, that like the.

• 3:10:10Speaker 01

  Or they're not gonna release it because it's CSAM and it's a victim material.

• 3:10:14Speaker 00

  Sure.

• 3:10:14Speaker 01

  Which, look, I mean, I have no, it probably is, but like, we have no idea.

• 3:10:17Mark Gagnon?

  Isn't that the most damning? Because like, we can literally see the people who are there interacting with potentially young girls.

• 3:10:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, it'd be great.

• 3:10:23Mark Gagnon?

  That would be.

• 3:10:24Speaker 01

  If they were to release it.

• 3:10:25Speaker 06

  So no co-conspirators. So it's like, there's this weird paradox that we're existing in.

• 3:10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:10:31Speaker 06

  Where there's no co-conspirators, but there is blackmail material, probably with, you know, child sexual assault content that no one knows about.

• 3:10:39Speaker 00

  So if there's no, so if there's no co-conspirators, who is Trump and the administration protecting?

• 3:10:45Speaker 01

  Uh, great question. Yeah. Well, that's why they, look, remember, it's always been very, it's always been very convenient to the current governments in power that Trump and Ghislaine Maxwell were the only people charged. That's the most convenient way, because then the Epstein story dies with Epstein. The Ghislaine Maxwell charges, she goes to jail. It's about her. It's got, it's got nothing to do with anybody else. Well, who are they protecting? What we see from the Epstein class, as we see in all these stories, is that, from the files, is that what they're protecting is,

• 3:11:13Speaker 00

  The system.

• 3:11:14Speaker 01

  If anything, like a system, and honestly, even a way of life. Like, it is, quite literally,

• 3:11:19Speaker 00

  That's,

• 3:11:19Speaker 01

  You know, the way I describe the way that the billionaires operate here about with their spreading their seed, like, it's a philosophy, man.

• 3:11:26Speaker 00

  No, this is,

• 3:11:26Speaker 01

  It's a mindset.

• 3:11:27Speaker 00

  This, this, this is interesting.

• 3:11:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:11:30Speaker 00

  They're protecting the system, and the system is not dependent on one or two individuals.

• 3:11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:11:37Speaker 00

  The system is what allows thousands of individuals to thrive.

• 3:11:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:11:42Speaker 00

  And if you attack that system, you remove the honeypot from all of those people that are interconnected around the world.

• 3:11:50Speaker 06

  But, yeah, go, go. The system to me that we're talking about is ultimately one that protects capital above everything else, and financializes global markets.

• 3:11:58Speaker 01

  Right, bingo, right.

• 3:11:59Speaker 06

  Which, how do you actually dismantle that without just like becoming, like, are we just doing like a theory podcast?

• 3:12:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, right. I mean, Mark, unfortunately, that's an age-old political theory.

• 3:12:11Speaker 06

  I'm trying to not get like fully just like pilled here where I'm like, dude, I'm an Engels, bro.

• 3:12:17Speaker 00

  No, I, what I'm saying is, I think that like dismantling a system like that starts with punitive measures from the people taking part in the system.

• 3:12:26Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 3:12:26Speaker 00

  Because if there's no punishment for taking part in the system, you're gonna have these, you know, maniacal narcissists take on that thing without any real risk. Right now, if Alex wants to write off his fucking car for his business, he's gotta think about it. He's gotta call a CPA and be like, okay, how do I make sure that it's a vehicle that I'm only using for my business? Or, I'm using hypothetically here, but like, these guys don't give a fuck. These guys are going, I'm not gonna pay tax on any of this, or I'm gonna, I'm gonna send 200 million over to this foreign government to, you know, what's it called, cause unrest?

• 3:13:02Speaker 06

  But that's a feature of the system.

• 3:13:04Speaker 00

  Right, but if you felt-

• 3:13:05Speaker 06

  That's not a mistake.

• 3:13:06Speaker 00

  But if you felt that there was repercussions for taking part in the system, i.e. what happened with the church committee, right?

• 3:13:12Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 3:13:12Speaker 00

  What was supposed to happen in the church committee was, hey, there are repercussions, CIA, when you go around the world and you do these bad things, we're gonna punish you and the people in it. Now, did it stop it? No, they found a workaround. But I guess what we have to do is, just like all law enforcement, is continue punishing workarounds.

• 3:13:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. The thing with the church committee, I don't even know if there was repercussions, it was just an exposure. No one that ran MKUltra-

• 3:13:35Speaker 00

  That's a good point, too.

• 3:13:36Speaker 06

  -gets punished. And then on top of that, it gets put into black sites.

• 3:13:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're not wrong, but I would disagree with that it wasn't a serious punishment, because what it did is it humiliated them, and also, what it did is it made America never trusted their government again. There are two single things that made Americans never trust their government. It's the JFK assassination, and also, it was Nixon, the 1970s, and the church committee. That was an entire decade of like, no, these people- Oh, and Vietnam, obviously. Those, those things, JFK, Vietnam, the church committee, Nixon, that decade made it for the moment that we're in right now, where they were like, we can't trust these people anymore. So like, I agree, like-

• 3:14:10Speaker 00

  We never trust motherfuckers.

• 3:14:11Speaker 01

  -real justice would be- No, we, no, but they, no, for real, though.

• 3:14:14Speaker 00

  No, like me, I mean-

• 3:14:15Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, yeah. No, man, if you go look at public polling, there's like Pew Research polling, like 90% of Americans were like, I believe the government, in 1955. It's crazy. We were living in a different world, man. Like, they were like, well, the president said it. Eisenhower was like a god.

• 3:14:29Speaker 00

  I think mine is 13% of that.

• 3:14:30Speaker 01

  If he just, if he said something, they were like, yup, got it, yeah.

• 3:14:35Speaker 06

  So then, this is my thing is like, we're ultimately looking at an actual shakeup of how the world interacts with capital. Like, is really kind of what like, we're flirting with. Which, again, I don't know if that's the answer, but I do think, as long as these things continue to exist, and then you kind of put like, some punitive shit where like, you trust bust and you have like, you know, post robber bear in America, where like, you kind of reorganize things.

• 3:14:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, the progressive era.

• 3:14:58Speaker 06

  Yeah, it just progressivizes, but then it backslides into this exact like, quasi feudal system where the richest 1% just do whatever they want with impunity, because that's how it's set up.

• 3:15:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15:09Speaker 00

  But maybe that is, maybe that is what you have to do. It's a constant fight.

• 3:15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 3:15:13Speaker 00

  It's not like, hey, we fix it, and then these people who constantly are looking for tiny margins that they can exploit are gonna stop it. You have to keep looking at them every single day, every single year, you gotta keep punishing them, and you have to set examples. Like, you have to set examples that make other people that would be willing to join these groups go, ooh, it's a little risky to go over there.

• 3:15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Everything is about permission structure, is you want to shut down permission structures, try and disincentivize them. Also, not a bad idea.

• 3:15:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 3:15:41Speaker 01

  But now you understand how they got to the geese.

• 3:15:43Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. They need to send a message, you can't do this fucking shit.

• 3:15:48Mark Gagnon?

  Um, did you see the thing that people are saying they might have swapped out Glenn? Like, she looks completely different.

• 3:15:54Speaker 01

  I don't think so.

• 3:15:55Mark Gagnon?

  No, no, no credence of that, yo. The face looks a lot different.

• 3:15:58Speaker 01

  There's a pretty good photo. She actually is in my hometown. She's in the town I grew up in, in prison.

• 3:16:03Mark Gagnon?

  Really?

• 3:16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, Brian Call station. I was already born there. So like, yeah.

• 3:16:06Speaker 00

  Can anybody visit her?

• 3:16:07Speaker 01

  Uh, well, the prison, you can't visit the prison camp, but you can get, you can get pretty damn close. Like, those Daily Mail guys with their telescopes, they get photos of her all the time, in the yard. She's in the same prison as Elizabeth Holmes, and the Real Housewives. She's not even supposed to be there, because she's a sex offender, which is crazy. That's a whole other story.

• 3:16:23Speaker 06

  Yeah. Yeah, the Catholic Church says that people should visit people in prison. It's a corporal work of mercy. So you can get in good standing with the Pope.

• 3:16:31Speaker 01

  But she would have to put you on, she would have to put you on her list. To get to beat with you.

• 3:16:35Speaker 06

  How hard is it to get on a list with Glenn? Yeah, I don't know, man.

• 3:16:39Speaker 00

  Fuck.

• 3:16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:16:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I get your, I get your point, Mark, which is like you're talking about, you're talking about systems in place and a way that essentially the world works and blowing that up. And I don't know if it essentially blows it up, but we have to create, like, these are people who are already risk averse and there's no risk for joining.

• 3:16:57Speaker 01

  Right, exactly.

• 3:16:58Speaker 00

  So you're taking the most, uh, no, the not risk averse.

• 3:17:02Speaker 01

  Sorry.

• 3:17:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, these are the most risk tolerant people on the planet. And there's a club that you join where now you don't have to be worried about risk at all.

• 3:17:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:17:10Speaker 00

  We have to increase the risk even a little bit. You know, because it's not going to be your morality, like the fact that Epstein is making fun of Bill Gates for having, and this is Bill Gates.

• 3:17:19Speaker 01

  Right, worth 50 billion.

• 3:17:21Speaker 00

  For having too much morality.

• 3:17:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:17:23Speaker 00

  Bill Gates for having too much morality. Like, what does that mean? What does that say about Epstein and his cronies and the level of morality that Bill Gates is an anomaly to him?

• 3:17:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow. Wow. Crazy stuff, guys.

• 3:17:34Speaker 06

  You have the media covering it up that are paid, they basically have a financial incentive in order to sell ads to their people, so they run the stories that are going to get them money. And then you have the legal system that's operating in lockstep with the criminals because they're being told that their intelligence allegedly. And so like the legal system's failing, the media's failing, the government is ultimately failing. The global system is all in cooperation because the financialized markets are basically pushing everyone in the same direction, so it doesn't have to be controlled by one guy, but just the incentive structure makes all them do the same shit.

• 3:18:02Speaker 00

  Dude, I mean, seeing Elon in the files and knowing how much I've invested in Tesla was very concerning. You know, and I say that as a joke, but I think that that's an example of how a lot of these people feel.

• 3:18:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18:20Speaker 00

  When they're pot committed, right? Like, a guy who, a guy like, I don't know, Teal, for example, this like kingmaker, this big power broker. Like, if you're invested in all these different companies that he is, you know, I wouldn't say that they're maybe dependent on him, but there might be this version where if you're one of these silicon guys, you know, he's getting into some nefarious shit, I don't know if he is, is allegedly, but he seems to be all over this kind of stuff. If you're, you're like, well, he's my access point to all these series A rounds.

• 3:18:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:18:45Speaker 00

  And if I call him out for his fuck shit, am I not going to be invited into these series A rounds?

• 3:18:50Speaker 01

  You won't, yeah.

• 3:18:50Speaker 00

  And you won't. So it's like, it's, it's not only like... The society's relationship to capital, there's like a personal greed complex that you have to, I mean, you're not going to eradicate it at all, but like it silences people. You don't even have to silence them from being implicated. You can silence them simply from wanting more money.

• 3:19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. Rough stuff. I should catch a train, guys. All right, Sager, thank you so much. Thanks, Jen.

• 3:19:19Speaker 00

  All right, Sager, appreciate you. Thank you so much, brother. Okay, be safe.

• 3:19:23Speaker 01

  I'm not suicidal. What did Thomas Massey say? He's like, I'm not suicidal.

• 3:19:29Speaker 00

  I eat good food and I can swim really well.

• 3:19:31Speaker 01

  I love my wife, I can swim, I don't go on boats. First floor only. Yeah, first floor only. I don't stay in high hotel rooms. Thank you, bro. I love my wife dearly.

• 3:19:43Speaker 00

  Well, hey, go check out Sager, he's going to continue reporting on this. Great job, man.

• 3:19:48Speaker 01

  Thank you, brother. Thank you for having me.

• 3:19:50Speaker 02

  Now, more than ever, we need someone on our side. But Rob Whitman? Whitman's votes drove up costs, cut Medicaid, and risked 350,000 Virginians' health care to pay for tax breaks for himself and his donors. He's not on our side. Shannon Taylor will fight corruption, cut taxes, and bring down costs. This November, vote for Shannon Taylor. She's for us. Paid for by HMP, the House Majority PAC dot com. Not authorized by any candidate or candidate's committee.