Pod Insights Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones What It Costs to Build a $12M-a-Year Grocery Store ft. Sammy Nussdorf of Meadow Lane About this episode The Brokeback Contessa aka Sammy Nussdorf, founder of New York’s newest luxury grocery store, Meadow Lane, joins Haley to dish building in public, viral scandals, how much Meadow Lane makes a month, creating your own narrative, mythmaking in the press, and those viral chicken fingers.
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Speaker 00 There's always been incoming insecurity and massive wealth disparity in this city. So I don't know why that was suddenly new. I guess maybe they were polling statistics. But there's always been scale to goods and services. There's always been a range from automobiles, from Toyota to Rolls Royce, from economy to first class, from, you know,
0:24 Haley Sacks? Generic to name brand.
0:25 Speaker 00 McDonald's to Michelin fine dining restaurant. You know, from an affordable grocery store to a not so affordable grocery store. Why is this news?
0:34 Haley Sacks? Zara to Chanel.
0:35 Speaker 00 Correct. Like what's, and these are all necessities. Foods are necessity. Automobiles are necessity. Healthcare is a necessity. There's always been a range. So I didn't understand why my 20, my 2,000 square foot store was getting blasted so much because there's other stores that sell very similar things for higher price tags, but they didn't get the press coverage we did. And that is because of my marketing on TikTok.
1:02 Haley Sacks? Yes.
1:02 Speaker 00 It, it generated enough buzz where like other, that others didn't.
1:09 Haley Sacks? What's up, rich people? It's me Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea.
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2:24 Speaker 02 The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility in your accounts. It will help you see your trends.
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3:54 Haley Sacks? What's up, rich people? It's me Haley, AKA Mrs. Dow Jones, and this is Financial Tea, the podcast where I teach you how to build wealth with a side of market drama, money scandals, and of course, financial pop culture. Now I have a question for you. Have you ever heard of Meadow Lane? It's this luxury food market in Tribeca that has been truly the talk of the town, like all over my TikTok since it opened in November last year. Year, which is crazy for a grocery store, like a grocery store to take over the culture. I feel like that's very rare. There is a truly a line out the door every day. And the opening was even featured in the cut Vogue, New York Times, Forbes and more. And people are obsessed with Meadow Lane because they sell luxury grocery items,
4:36 Haley Sacks? many of which are at a high price point. So like $12 grapes, $15 gluten free chicken nuggets, $625 caviar, but they're also obsessed with the founder, Sammy Nostorf, because he built the whole business in public on Tik Tok. And at first, when I heard out of a lean, I thought this is the textbook definition of a micro luxury, which are basically smaller purchases that scratch the itch of indulgence without requiring a massive financial commitment. I don't know if you've ever heard of the lipstick index, but it's this theory that during recessions or economic downturns, consumers typically pivot to smaller luxuries like a fancy lipstick because they can't afford the big stuff. And in this case, instead of a lipstick index, it's basically a chicken finger index.
5:18 Haley Sacks? Like those $15 chicken fingers are the new like buying the road lip treatment. It makes you feel rich, even if you don't have any money in the bank. In an economy where people are struggling to find jobs and everything feels more expensive than ever. And in a city where we elected a mayor based on affordability crisis, why are we waiting in line for $12 grapes? And honestly, the interview was so interesting. There was so much more to the story. It was so juicy. We covered his generational wealth, the state of micro luxuries, his public scandals, there was raw chicken fingers all over Tik Tok from his store. And of course, the business of curation, because this man knows how to sell a vibe. I really hope you enjoy this interview with Meadow Lane founder Sammy. I loved talking to him. Sammy, welcome to the show.
6:05 Haley Sacks? Okay, guys, for this week's market report, I want us to just
6:10 Haley Sacks? take a collective deep breath because I know that all of our feeds are filled with global conflict updates and the vibe is really heavy. The news right now is so scary and it really does feel like since the strikes on Iran happened, the world has shifted, like there has been a complete vibe shift. Certainly there's been a Portfolio shift. Like if you have money in the market, I'm sure that you are seeing it a bit in the red, which is scary. I'm recording this on Monday morning, March 9th. The Dow is currently down over 800 points and oil has spiked past a hundred dollars a barrel. And so I've been getting a lot of DMs of people panicking, but also people like asking me, Haley, should I be buying the dip?
6:52 Haley Sacks? What is the right financial move to make right now? So I just wanted to sort of walk through what's happening and, um, and how I'm reacting to all of this instability in the market. Um, because I feel like we don't really need to go through the other stories. Like this is the main story. Um, this is the most important thing that's happening right now. So this is a special edition of Market Report where we're really just going to dive in to how to invest and how to financially react in a state of uncertainty. So first of all, I want to say that my boyfriend Warren Buffett always says that volatility is the tax that we pay for getting to grow wealth in the market, which I love. Um, because basically
7:36 Haley Sacks? like, yeah, like getting to grow money, like having your money compound, having it, you know, grow exponentially over years and years is amazing, but it doesn't come without heartache and moments of insecurity and moments where you're like, what the fuck? Should I just have kept my money in cash? And so this might be one of those moments for you, but just know like that's normal and that the market going up and down is actually healthy. That is a normal part of a market cycle. Like people hate weight fluctuations and they hate market fluctuations, but market fluctuations are actually totally to be expected and they shouldn't affect your long-term financial plans. They really are going to happen every year for the rest of your life, a few times a year.
8:21 Haley Sacks? So just like plan for them, acknowledge them, know they're coming. And when they do come, be like, hey, old friend. Good to see you. I knew you were going to show up eventually. Okay. So now I'm going to tell you the three things that you need to know to navigate all this instability like a pro. So number one, you've got to understand the oil situation because that is why inflation might rise and why your gas and your grocery bills might start acting up. Maybe they already did start acting up. So basically we are looking at right now a massive war risk premium. And that is because Iran is threatening to shut off the Strait of Hormuz, which is where 20% of the world's oil flows.
9:06 Haley Sacks? That's crazy. So the market is obviously panicking that oil prices are going to stay north of $100 a barrel. And because everything that we buy gets moved by fuel, has petroleum in it, like oil is just such a big part of the economy. This is a huge deal. So like when you see the market dipping, it doesn't mean that these companies suddenly got bad at their jobs. It just means that investors are worried that high energy costs are going to eat into corporate profits. So hopefully, once you understand the why, it stops being so scary. I will also say like, America is hedged in terms of our oil supplies. Like, we are not getting all of our oil from Iran. So hopefully, this works itself out.
9:50 Haley Sacks? But in the short term, yes, there might be inflation because oil has become so expensive. And that's just is what it is. It's and hopefully, like now that you understand why it stops being so scary. And it's not like a mystery. It's just math. The second thing I want to talk about are portfolios. Should you buy the dip? Should you panic sell? And here's the thing, when things get scary, the market tends to do what's called a flight to safety. So like people, people are very emotional with their investing. They really like to let their emotions be their financial advisor. And in moments like this, they like to dump speculative tech stocks and run towards gold and the dollar and keeping their money in cash.
10:35 Haley Sacks? So if you're seeing a lot of red right now in your portfolio, it means that you're probably heavy on growth. And that's okay. That doesn't mean that like you're screwed. Geopolitical shocks historically have always just had short-term market impact. So like, I have no doubt that your portfolio is going to bounce back. But just make sure that you don't sell while you're down, because then you're just turning a paper loss into a real one. So I'd say for most of us, the smartest move right now is to do nothing. And I've also been getting a A lot of DMs about buying the dip. It's all about time in the market versus timing of the market. So I always get weary of giving advice about like, this is the moment, let's get in. But also, if you have been sitting on cash and waiting for a moment to get in,
11:19 Haley Sacks? this is historically what those moments do look like. I did buy the dip today just because I funded my SEP IRA, which is a retirement account for people who are self-employed. And I was waiting to invest it. And so we're putting it, I'm putting it into the market today. And I'm buying broad index funds. And if you're wondering exactly what I bought, which index funds I'm personally in right now. But I never gatekeep this. I have a free guide that I'll put in the show notes that has like every index fund listed that I invest in. But again, this is not financial advice, so take it with a grain of salt. And then number three, the third thing I wanted to talk about are flight prices because obviously we are all planning our hot girl summers.
12:03 Haley Sacks? And flight prices are about to get insane slash already insane. Jet fuel prices have nearly doubled in the last month, which is crazy. And it's all because of this conflict. So of course airlines are adding like fuel surcharges into their tickets. So my advice is like, this is a moment to really lock in on your points. Like if you see a flight price you can live with, of course, book it today. Don't wait for a deal that's coming while oil is as high. You can always cancel a flight. So it's better to just book the flight that you think that you might want. If you see a good price for it and then deal with it down the road. You can always move things around.
12:43 Haley Sacks? But also most major airline points programs, so like think like Aeroplan or United Mileage Plus, like any of the other ones. They don't pass fuel surcharges onto you when you book with points. So you're essentially spending a shadow currency that isn't tethered to the price of oil. So if you have a trip planned and you have points just sitting there, I would use them now. I'm going to go to Greece this summer. I go to Greece every summer. And I'm going to book those flights like today or tomorrow. And like I said, you can always move them around, but I just want to lock in the prices. But yeah, points are really the best way to do it because you're effectively erasing the wartime inflation on your vacation.
13:24 Haley Sacks? Okay, so those are my three tips. Don't panic, sell, book your flights now and understand why gas prices are so high. And I know that the world feels heavy, but remember your finances don't have to be a source of trauma. Just stay calm, stay invested and use your points like the future rich person I know you are. So that is the market report. Now let's get into the rest of the show.
13:50 Haley Sacks? Welcome Sammy Nostorff, the founder of viral grocery store Meadow Lane to the financial tea. Before we really jump in, I just have a few questions for you. Okay. What gives you the financial ick?
14:02 Speaker 00 Things like Hermes blankets.
14:05 Haley Sacks? They're so bad.
14:06 Speaker 00 So bad. Like, why do you still do it?
14:08 Haley Sacks? I know.
14:10 Speaker 00 Or like the pillows.
14:11 Haley Sacks? The pillow, like all of the, the bait products that people buy to like, try and get a burger.
14:15 Speaker 00 Try and get a burger.
14:16 Haley Sacks? Yeah. But also they don't know that the sales associates know if you're buying the bait product and then they won't give you a burger if you buy them.
14:22 Speaker 00 Yeah. Yeah. There's a whole algorithm.
14:24 Haley Sacks? There really is. There really is.
14:26 Speaker 00 Anything that like screams, this is the brand, you know, I guess I am a subscriber to Quiet Luxury.
14:32 Haley Sacks? And then do you feel rich today?
14:34 Speaker 00 Emotionally, spiritually?
14:36 Haley Sacks? Just like, however that works for you, bank account. Like, you know, some days you're like, damn, like I've got some money in my pocket.
14:44 Speaker 00 You know, I've never thought about that.
14:46 Haley Sacks? Okay. Well, this is why you're here to like, do deep thinking about your finances.
14:50 Speaker 00 I guess I feel emotionally rich today.
14:53 Haley Sacks? Because you're more together.
14:54 Speaker 00 Cause I'm just in a good mood.
14:55 Haley Sacks? Okay, fine. Don't make it about me.
14:57 Speaker 00 It's a rare occurrence.
14:58 Haley Sacks? Oh yeah, fair enough. Yeah. Okay. So obviously your grocery store, I'm obsessed. When I was in Tribeca the other weekend, like I was trying to get in. Can you talk to me about like, just start with Meadow Lane? Like, why did you call it Meadow Lane? First of all?
15:13 Speaker 00 I was thinking of what to name the business and I wanted to encapsulate a destination. And I thought lane or pond or road or something like. Made it a place that you could envision in your head. And because of my floral background, I wanted to add Meadow. Because it's very lush and it reminded me of like lush quaint place. But also, you know, I did technically get the name from the street in Southampton. It dissuaded me because of the street in Southampton.
15:42 Haley Sacks? Wait, really?
15:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, because I didn't want it to seem too pretentious.
15:45 Haley Sacks? Wow. Oh, so I thought that you were like actively trying to connect it to like this very expensive zip code. Like it's like this aspirational place.
15:52 Speaker 00 No, and my fear of that was actually like people saying the counter argument was like, no, like it's aspirational. Like people know what that is. And like, I was like, I don't know if I'm on board with it. It kind of gave me the ick, honestly, but I loved the name for a grocery store.
16:10 Haley Sacks? I love the name too, but I feel like so much of the buzz or like desire to shop at Meadow Lane is because it does feel aspirational. Like it feels like this destination and like you can go there and you even, no matter what's happening in your bank account or whatever, when you walk in those doors, you are able to buy like the same thing as like a super rich person and like sort of cosplay that experience, which I think especially for like Gen Z and millennials is exciting. Because obviously like, you know, lots of inflation, student debt, the job market is messed up. And so we look for these like micro luxuries to make us feel like, you know, we're economically successful.
16:54 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was just reading about that and before I wasn't, I didn't agree with it. Now I'm thinking, okay, people aren't able to buy like, let's say a Miu Miu fleece or a Kelly or whatever it is. So it's these like micro purchases of subscribing to a trend or a luxury, but it's more accessible. I don't know if my target recurring customer base is doing that. I think that they just like prepackaged healthy food, to be honest. I mean, maybe some people are sporting like a gourmet grosser tote bag. And thinking like that's a status symbol, but I think most of our customers who are locals
17:37 Speaker 00 who come every day or almost every day, just enjoy the food and they want grab and go, easy, convenient food.
17:44 Haley Sacks? So the mark, the, obviously the grocery store has been, I don't even want to call it grocery store because it sounds like it's a prepared food market.
17:50 Speaker 00 Yeah.
17:51 Haley Sacks? Okay, prepared food market, Metallian, has been super successful. So how much do you gross in a week?
17:57 Speaker 00 I don't look at it per week. I look at it usually day or month. So day on average is around $30,000.
18:05 Haley Sacks? Wow.
18:06 Speaker 00 And a month around a million, but it's super dependent on the weather.
18:12 Haley Sacks? Wow.
18:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. So weekends will do around 50,000 a day.
18:16 Haley Sacks? Damn.
18:18 Speaker 00 And then really slow days, you know, freezing outside, inclement weather, it's around like 16, 18,000.
18:26 Haley Sacks? What is the profit from that?
18:29 Speaker 00 I don't know if I want to share that.
18:31 Haley Sacks? Okay, interesting.
18:32 Speaker 00 Yeah.
18:33 Haley Sacks? Because, well, I mean, it brings me to my next question because it's like, how do you price things? Like, obviously you're making, it's super successful because people love the food, but also because the actual like items in the store are priced so highly. So like, how did, how do you decide how to price things? Have you tried lower pricing? What happened?
18:54 Speaker 00 They're not that pricey.
18:56 Haley Sacks? Oh, okay.
18:57 Speaker 00 I think objectively they are in relation to the neighborhood. You know, Tribeca is the highest price per square foot in Manhattan, which means it's the highest price, one of the highest price per square foot in the Northeast. So given the affluence of that neighborhood and the locals keep the local businesses afloat, it's priced reasonably, especially given that most of the, the ingredients are organic and it's very high quality meat and produce and all of the ingredients. So, you know, it's pretty on par with every other gourmet grocer, actually below. And
19:36 Speaker 00 Kind of comparable to a Sweetgreen.
19:39 Haley Sacks? And just to be clear, we're not sharing. We know that it makes a million dollars a month.
19:44 Speaker 00 Well, it's still only-
19:46 Haley Sacks? It's grossing a million dollars a month.
19:47 Speaker 00 We've, we're still in the first 90 days.
19:50 Haley Sacks? Okay.
19:50 Speaker 00 So we don't know. I mean, given that the first 90 days were very cold winter months.
19:56 Haley Sacks? Yes.
19:56 Speaker 00 It could well exceed that. But the run rate should be currently around 12 million a year.
20:04 Haley Sacks? Damn.
20:05 Speaker 00 Um, and that's without catering. That's without partnerships.
20:09 Haley Sacks? And you're a full, you're a full owner.
20:12 Speaker 00 Full owner. Um, but you know, it's still tight. Like, that doesn't account for cost of goods. The more volume that you do, the higher cost of goods. Labor is extremely high. It's not like that lucrative of a business until you scale it.
20:29 Haley Sacks? So you, and you won't tell us the margins?
20:31 Speaker 00 It's, it's very low. The profit margins are low. The gross margins are standard. I mean, there's other stats I can give you.
20:41 Haley Sacks? Give us a stat. I know you've brought some numbers for us. Like, share a number, brother.
20:47 Speaker 00 In the first 90 days of operations, we've had 70,000 transactions. That doesn't necessarily mean 70,000 individual customers because some, a lot of them are repeat customers.
20:56 Haley Sacks? That's crazy.
20:57 Speaker 00 Yeah, 70,000 for a 2,000 square foot space is tremendous.
21:00 Haley Sacks? That's insane.
21:01 Speaker 00 Yeah. Let's see, we've sold a quarter of a million units of items. So it's a lot, it's a lot of volume.
21:10 Haley Sacks? Keep going.
21:10 Speaker 00 The only reason-
21:11 Haley Sacks? It's a volume business.
21:12 Speaker 00 The only reason we're operating at a profit is because of volume.
21:15 Haley Sacks? Volume.
21:15 Speaker 00 Like, someone needs to take some of our food, like our average meals, and compare them against other prices.
21:23 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
21:23 Speaker 00 Other restaurant or other places and their prices. It's not that crazy.
21:26 Haley Sacks? You need to do a video on that.
21:28 Speaker 00 I know. Um, and we've also been able to give back. Like, within the first week of opening, we donated $30,000 to City Meals on Wheels.
21:35 Haley Sacks? Love.
21:36 Speaker 00 So we're gonna try and do way more of that once we level off and tighten up as much as we can. Let's see. So we've done 3 million in revenue so far.
21:46 Haley Sacks? Damn.
21:47 Speaker 00 Within 90 days. So yeah, it's like a million a month, basically.
21:50 Haley Sacks? This is a great business.
21:51 Speaker 00 I think for spring, summer, it's gonna well exceed that. Oh, these are interesting stats. So we've sold over $750,000 in chicken.
22:00 Haley Sacks? And I'm about to try the chicken.
22:02 Speaker 00 Yeah, spread between only a handful of SKUs.
22:05 Haley Sacks? Poor chickens. You've really done bad things for them.
22:08 Speaker 00 A chicken hates to see a Meadow Lane purchase order come through.
22:11 Haley Sacks? Me too.
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23:16 Haley Sacks? I feel like for, okay, I feel like there is this phenomenon though, where people do value things that are more expensive, more highly. Like a lot of people say that, like with, I do financial planning or advice for people. And like it actually, when things cost money, they end up completing it more because they value it and it like took some sting or something from them to get it. Versus if I gave it to them for free and then it leads to them like actually, you know, like completing the program or something like that. Like there's like this whole idea that like with price brings value. Do you, like, do you think that people like when things are more expensive?
23:57 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, when I was marketing the business and talking about price point, they're like, oh, I'm kind of disappointed that chicken salad's only $12. Like I want. Wanted it to be more like I want to treat myself. I'm like, well, you could still treat yourself and it can cost you less like, you know, I think a round swamp chicken salad is like $22.
24:16 Haley Sacks? It's crazy.
24:17 Speaker 00 Ours is 12.
24:18 Haley Sacks? Wow. Okay. A deal in this economy.
24:20 Speaker 00 I mean, the chickens we get are like incredible. Like it's, it kind of is, especially in the neighborhood. That's why I think it's priced very reasonably. The, the profitability of Meadow Lane is not based on margin. It's based on volume. So our margins for prepared foods are extremely standard. Margins on coffee and beverage are lower than average. You could probably spend more money on a coffee at Starbucks or a blue bottle than a Meadow Lane coffee. Where I think people think it's more expensive than it is, is the press creating this narrative by only focusing on a $65 bottle of olive oil
25:02 Speaker 00 and a $750 jar of caviar, which is like Oceetra and like the big one.
25:08 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
25:08 Speaker 00 You know, like they didn't really want to cover the $12 chicken salad.
25:11 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
25:12 Speaker 00 You know, or the $15 tenders, which, you know, that's a lot of protein in there and they're very nice chickens. So it's not a crazy margin. It's just about the volume that we do. I mean, having a thousand customers a day.
25:26 Haley Sacks? That's crazy.
25:26 Speaker 00 You're able to keep your business afloat while not inflating your margin.
25:31 Haley Sacks? Like obviously people know about Erawan and it's so LA, so such a destination there. Was there like inspiration to sort of create like the New York version of Erawan with Meadow Lane?
25:43 Speaker 00 Not necessarily. I lived in LA for about a year and a half and I frequented Erawan. I frequented Erawan a lot.
25:52 Speaker 00 And I loved it there. I just loved how aesthetically pleasing it was. I liked the prepared foods. The produce was amazing.
26:00 Speaker 00 I think I was more inspired by Dean and DeLuca and Round Swamp. I thought the culture of Erawan was interesting in terms of like people making that an activity. Because I always viewed going to the grocery store as a kid as an activity and like something fun.
26:14 Haley Sacks? Yes.
26:15 Speaker 00 It was like my favorite place as a kid and the idea of people getting dressed up to go to the grocery store and hang out and sit outside and eat their food was really cool to me.
26:25 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
26:26 Speaker 00 I don't know if I necessarily implemented that into like the ethos of Meadow Lane, but. I was definitely inspired by, I guess, Erawan to an extent, but mainly Dean and DeLuca and Round Swamp. It was just like this feeling you got when you went there. And I wanted to create my own feeling that I thought my customers would experience when they came to Meadow Lane. Yes, I marketed in a very niche, kind of like creative way, but I think like I created the customer before we, well before we opened.
26:56 Haley Sacks? And who would you say is the Meadow Lane customer?
26:58 Speaker 00 I think there's many different kinds of customers. There's Tribeca locals, people doing halls for their families, you know, twice a week, three times a week. They don't want to cook. It's the investment bankers at Citi Goldman. It's the girls at Vogue and Conde Nast that walk over. It's nurses and doctors and dermatology offices nearby. Yeah, there's even students that come from NYU or whatever the other one is.
27:29 Haley Sacks? With the store, like, what is the rent on the space? Because obviously Tribeca is so expensive.
27:34 Speaker 00 The rent is around $31,000 a month.
27:36 Haley Sacks? Oh, so you guys are doing great.
27:38 Speaker 00 Yeah.
27:38 Haley Sacks? And then how much did it cost to like build it out? Because it's so stunning.
27:42 Speaker 00 The build out cost was considerable. I'll just say that.
27:46 Haley Sacks? Can we name names?
27:47 Speaker 00 No.
27:48 Haley Sacks? No, okay. But you obviously went above budget.
27:52 Speaker 00 We went above budget, but we will, we will make up our capital expenditure in a very short amount of time.
27:58 Haley Sacks? There you go. People do assume online, like they, I feel like they do think you're just like swiping a family black card to open a shop because like, you know, your parents have money, but like, let's just settle the books. Like, how much of your own skin is in this game? Do you have investors? Is it the bank of mom and dad? Like, how did we create this?
28:17 Speaker 00 100% of my skin is in the game.
28:19 Haley Sacks? I know it is. I can feel it.
28:20 Speaker 00 So before I worked in the grocery industry, I was working in venture capital at my, my family's office.
28:29 Haley Sacks? Yes.
28:30 Speaker 00 So my dad opened a family office a couple of blocks away from my apartment.
28:34 Haley Sacks? Convenient.
28:35 Speaker 00 And I didn't, I didn't necessarily want to, you know, work from, he works in the distribution business.
28:41 Haley Sacks? Yeah. So what is the family biz?
28:42 Speaker 00 It's a healthcare pharmaceutical beauty distribution business. So he buys things like toilet paper, Q-tip shampoo, fragrance, pharmaceuticals and distributes it to retailers. So I did not want to go into that business. That was not very enticing for me. But he opened a family office to like do some investing, manage some assets, things like that.
29:07 Haley Sacks? Tell us like what if I have family offices? Cause I feel like it comes up on the podcast a lot. So like I always am like, let's just like make sure it's clear.
29:13 Speaker 00 Yeah. I mean, family offices are typically for high net worth individuals or families or several families. Where there can be a number of things happening. You could be using it as like a house to invest in different companies, private equity, VC.
29:31 Speaker 00 Management of assets. I feel like that's, you know, there's accounting, there's bookkeeping, there's things like that.
29:39 Haley Sacks? It's like tax optimization, but it's also like you have like your own little hedge fund, but like investment.
29:44 Speaker 00 Yeah, there's different arms.
29:45 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:46 Speaker 00 And at the time it was a collection of all of it. And I started working there during undergrad in the summer mostly. And I got really interested in the VC aspect, which was probably 10% of the family office. Very small. And I just wanted to explore VC more. And over time I made more and more investments and I allocated around $27 million.
30:13 Haley Sacks? Wow.
30:15 Speaker 00 Not angel checks, like considerable checks.
30:18 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
30:19 Speaker 00 In these startups and other VC funds as well. And today it has a fair market value of a hundred million.
30:27 Haley Sacks? Whoa. Okay. What were the companies that you invested in?
30:30 Speaker 00 Many. I can tell you the ones that have exited.
30:32 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
30:33 Speaker 00 Which is Coterie diapers.
30:35 Haley Sacks? That's a huge one.
30:36 Speaker 00 Humongous exit. Yeah.
30:38 Haley Sacks? Coterie has gone to the moon.
30:40 Speaker 00 Yeah. Touchland hand sanitizer.
30:42 Haley Sacks? Oh my gosh. People are obsessed.
30:44 Speaker 00 Yeah. Invested in that pre pandemic.
30:46 Haley Sacks? Oh my gosh.
30:47 Speaker 00 So these were all like series A. I invested in Built, the credit card company has like a 10 or plus billion dollar valuation now. So I know it's unfathomable.
30:59 Haley Sacks? How'd you get that deal flow? And also how did you analyze those deals? Like, was it gut feeling?
31:04 Speaker 00 So obviously, we had an analyst.
31:06 Haley Sacks? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:07 Speaker 00 But all of it was gut.
31:10 Speaker 00 You know, we made sure the numbers looked good, but like I had this visceral somatic experience when I met with a founder, tried a product. And I just like would know for the most part if this brand was going to take off.
31:23 Haley Sacks? You're really good at knowing like what the next gen wants. You know what I mean? Like even Meadow Lane, I feel like fits into that category, but like Built is like a credit card for next gen where it's like, okay, we're optimizing paying rent or like, you know, the hand sanitizer, it's not like a squirty Purell, it's like a chic, you know, touch land.
31:43 Speaker 00 Yeah.
31:44 Haley Sacks? Smelly fun experience or, you know, coterie like, yeah, let's make it fancy to put a fucking diaper on. You know, let's make it aspirational to like wipe the baby's butt.
31:54 Speaker 00 And better for the environment.
31:55 Haley Sacks? Better for the environment, of course, always important to be good for the environment. They love to have that as like a little byline. But you know, you sort of have like a magic touch in that moment.
32:03 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was good at it.
32:05 Haley Sacks? You are. So you're not doing it anymore?
32:07 Speaker 00 Not really. I mean, if I see a deal come through, maybe like if it really sparks my interest, but my focus is Meadow Lane.
32:15 Haley Sacks? So, okay, I want to obviously talk about like what the future Meadow Lane means, but so then you're saying that you of that, so you put in 27 million of the family offices money, that portfolio is now up to a hundred million dollars. How much of that did you pocket and like put into the business?
32:32 Speaker 00 I get profit share, I get carry basically on the deals I invested because that money, that money wasn't mine. That money is my dad's.
32:41 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you borrowed from Papa.
32:43 Speaker 00 But it wouldn't have, you know,
32:45 Haley Sacks? Grown.
32:46 Speaker 00 It wouldn't have grown without the decision making around those deals that we were doing and the sourcing of those deals. So I wanted to use some of the money that I made to finance Meadow Lane. Cause that's what I wanted to do. I could have kept doing VC.
33:01 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
33:02 Speaker 00 But I was like, this is kind of getting stale for me. Like, I don't know, this sounds like really pretentious, but like. I can just sit here and keep making a lot of money.
33:11 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
33:12 Speaker 00 But I'm really, it's not like filling my bucket.
33:14 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
33:15 Speaker 00 I wanted to feel like more inspired. I became a floral designer during the pandemic. And I loved working with my hands and I was always passionate about food. So I wanted to bring together a bunch of my passions under one roof. And finance the business through that money.
33:31 Haley Sacks? Like, how much did you put into Meadow Lane? I think you can say that. I don't think that's like so.
33:35 Speaker 00 Several million dollars went into the.
33:37 Haley Sacks? To Meadow. And it was all from your good investments in the family office.
33:42 Speaker 00 Yes.
33:43 Haley Sacks? So you had the leg up of being able to invest Papa's money.
33:46 Speaker 00 Yes.
33:46 Haley Sacks? But no one can tell you that you didn't grow that money and then, you know.
33:52 Speaker 00 No, I did. And like, my nepotism awarded me the opportunity to work for my dad, essentially.
33:58 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
33:59 Speaker 00 You know, but there's plenty of people that invest their family's money or work for their families and tank it.
34:05 Haley Sacks? Well, that's what I was gonna say is like, A, are you the favorite child? And B, it's like, yeah, like, literally, how many people do you know who are like, oh, I'm investing? And it's like, they are not doing it successfully.
34:18 Speaker 00 I mean, the last five years, everyone became an investor.
34:20 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
34:21 Speaker 00 They're like, yeah, I have a fund.
34:22 Haley Sacks? I have a fund.
34:23 Speaker 00 I'm like, do you have any LPs?
34:25 Haley Sacks? No, absolutely not. And I'm like, wow, I would never invest with you.
34:30 Speaker 00 Yeah.
34:31 Haley Sacks? I'm like, ooh, I would absolutely never trust you with my money.
34:34 Speaker 00 Right. It was a great experience. And like, I won't apologize for having been dealt a hefty set of cards.
34:42 Haley Sacks? You played it well.
34:43 Speaker 00 Yeah, I thought I played it well and I'm glad I did. And, you know, it's an ultimate luxury and privilege to be able to start your own business.
34:51 Haley Sacks? Oh, 100%.
34:52 Speaker 00 And like, why not take advantage of that? I'm not gonna like, sit around and mope and be like, oh, poor me, like,
34:59 Speaker 00 you know, I want, I get to do what makes me happy. And that's like such an amazing thing. And if I can inspire a young entrepreneurial audience in saving costs when starting their business by not spending money on ads, advertisement agencies and PR agencies, marketing agencies, and they can do it themselves by marketing on TikTok, like, why not?
35:24 Haley Sacks? Well, let's talk about the TikTok thing because I do feel like you've actually created a problem for many founders because now it's like because of you, Sammy, every person who starts a company is like encouraged to build in public. They all think that they can do it like Sammy, like because you really like built the company on TikTok every day, showing your followers, what was going on, and it created this like connection to the brand and hype and just like interest. And so like, how was that so conscious? Was it something? Like, walk us through that. And you're genius.
36:01 Speaker 00 When I was putting together Meadow Lane, I met with a marketing agency or two and they were telling me things of their strategy that just I didn't agree with.
36:11 Haley Sacks? Like what?
36:12 Speaker 00 Just boring, traditional institutional marketing strategy and like 15 grand a month quoting me. I was like, absolutely not.
36:20 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you're like, in what world?
36:22 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was like, I don't like selling things too hard, you know, like, I want to showcase something, but I don't want to force you to buy it. Like, I hate marketing where it's like, you need this, you know, I hate that energy. So I was like, I'm gonna do it myself, but I don't know how. And I didn't have TikTok on my phone yet, but I downloaded it and I just saw people post their makeup tutorial, their hair tutorial, making a flower arrangement, the guy in Australia doing the dance videos with flowers.
36:52 Haley Sacks? I love those.
36:53 Speaker 00 Love. People love to see how things are made start to finish.
36:56 Haley Sacks? Got rich.
36:57 Speaker 00 This is the new reality TV. And no wonder viewership and movies and TV shows and reality are down. People are looking to short form content.
37:07 Haley Sacks? It's so good.
37:08 Speaker 00 To learn things, to watch the news, to see how the financial markets are doing. It's quicker and we're like, maybe that's a bad thing.
37:16 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
37:16 Speaker 00 But that's the reality we're in. So I was like, how cool would it be to build the business in public?
37:21 Haley Sacks? Oh, so it was really, it was like thought out in that way before you even made your first post?
37:25 Speaker 00 That was the only thought, like, what if I just get people excited for something and, and see what my customer wants? Before we open.
37:33 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
37:34 Speaker 00 And I didn't know how it was gonna go. I never anticipated it becoming what it did. So I just started with a taste test video of like overnight oats and parfait cups. And it took off and people were so like locked in. I'm like, oh, I should do more of this. I should go through the menu. With them. And then I was like crashing out over some delay or something. And I did a video about that. And then they were like, wait, talk more about the construction and the permits. Like, how does that work? So you're like teaching something as you go, but you're also collecting consumer data. Because you're like, oh, this is what they want to see.
38:06 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
38:07 Speaker 00 Oh, they don't think the brand color aligns with the brand. Like you just, and because the delay is, I was able to learn so much and co-found the business together.
38:16 Haley Sacks? I love that.
38:17 Speaker 00 With an audience. And it was like, it felt like support.
38:20 Haley Sacks? Such a loser.
38:23 Haley Sacks? I'm gonna cry. It's a beautiful story.
38:29 Haley Sacks? Wow, that's so cool. I like that you're sort of like snarky too. Like you're like, you're always in control of your own narrative. Like it's like.
38:36 Speaker 00 Hardly.
38:37 Haley Sacks? What do you mean? I feel like you definitely clap back.
38:39 Speaker 00 I clap back, but I'm not in control.
38:42 Haley Sacks? Not control of your narrative, but on your page of your narrative. Like you're not like gonna acquiesce to someone like bullying you online. You'd just be like, no, I'm not doing that.
38:50 Speaker 00 The bullying and the trolling doesn't upset me very much. It's when people twist the narrative and make up lies.
38:57 Haley Sacks? What's, what are the lies that you've heard? Biggest lies online?
39:00 Speaker 00 Oh, there's no way he financed his own business. You know, back to what you were saying, like, yeah, it's kind of unfathomable to think a 28 year old could finance his own business. And I'm like, it is. And I don't think I would have been able to if not for the nepotism that I was born into.
39:16 Haley Sacks? But also that gave you, by having it self-financed, you also had the freedom to make so many decisions from your gut.
39:25 Speaker 00 Yeah.
39:25 Haley Sacks? Versus having these like annoying, no offense, because you are one VCs, being like, well, the data shows and this and that. And it's like, no, at the end of the day, like you, your gut is your most powerful co-founder.
39:37 Speaker 00 Yeah. And I don't, if I had listened to my best friends and my closest family members, this business wouldn't have gotten off the ground.
39:43 Haley Sacks? There you go. But you have like a lot of issues. Like there was like, you know, you also dealt with a lot of conflict online. Like, you know, first week, raw chicken nuggets, this, that, like, talk us through all that controversy.
39:53 Speaker 00 Building in public is a double edged sword, to say the least. You know. It is why the business was as viral or is as viral as it is, but it's also, you know, it's also feeds into this like changing your narrative thing.
40:12 Speaker 00 And every win is widely broadcasted, but every mistake is widely broadcasted. So, you know, things that happen in F and B hospitality every single day, but aren't talked about because it's not a viral topic. We were exposed to that.
40:30 Haley Sacks? Well, say more, like we saw the viral raw chicken TikTok. Yeah. Like, let's dig in.
40:39 Speaker 00 So, you know, there's no excuse.
40:41 Haley Sacks? Tell us about the raw chicken.
40:42 Speaker 00 I know. There's no excuse for that, you know, that's a.
40:46 Haley Sacks? But like, like, explain what happened.
40:47 Speaker 00 Yeah.
40:48 Haley Sacks? First week.
40:48 Speaker 00 We were not anticipating that kind of demand, not anticipating a thousand customers a day, lines for three, four weeks.
40:55 Haley Sacks? This is so crazy.
40:56 Speaker 00 And people were very upset that when they got into the store, most of the food was sold out. So there was a lot of pressure on the kitchen to keep making food. We had to hire a third shift in the kitchen. The kitchen was operating 24 hours a day.
41:09 Haley Sacks? Wow.
41:10 Speaker 00 You know, it's a new team. It's a new kitchen. People are still learning.
41:14 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
41:14 Speaker 00 And mistakes get made and things fall through the cracks. And we were, we were just trying to keep up with demand as best as we could. And a tray of chicken nuggets, which we make in-house and then freeze so that we're ahead of schedule. You know, we take them out, we thaw them and then we fry them. So one tray wasn't thawed enough and they went into the fryer appearing to be cooked.
41:41 Haley Sacks? But that inside was pink ass.
41:43 Speaker 00 The inside was pink ass.
41:44 Haley Sacks? Yes, it could happen to anyone.
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42:49 Haley Sacks? So back to Arowan, like obviously Arowan has like those viral celebrity smoothies, the Hailey Bieber, which by the way, it's a milkshake. Like that is not healthy at all. Would you ever do something like that? Like, cause I know that you used a lot of influencers within your launch. Like, would you ever do like Butterfield does the influencer smoothies? Even I was ordering something from a restaurant yesterday and they had like an influencer cookie collab, like, were you down for that?
43:14 Speaker 00 I'm not really down for it.
43:16 Haley Sacks? Okay.
43:17 Speaker 00 I also haven't really collabed with influencers. A lot of influencers were reaching out like, oh, let's do a video together. And this was pre-opening. So I was like, sure. But no one was paid. Like we've spent $0 on marketing, advertising and press. So I have a very strict line with that. I will not pay anyone to come to the store and I won't discount anyone to do a video. I think that that cheapens the brand. With LA culture around food and beverage, it's very LA. And I think that's fine. I think for New York, it's like more subtle. You know, the celebrities that come into Metallane all the time, it's very chill. It's very subtle.
44:00 Speaker 00 I think making a celebrity endorsed product at this point, it's like Metallane needs to become its own tiger before it rides off the back of another tiger.
44:09 Haley Sacks? I love that.
44:10 Speaker 00 Like I need to earn it myself and not piggyback off of some big, well-known celebrity to amass more customers. It's just not my vibe. I've turned down tons of people and brands for collaborations on bowls or smoothies or salads. Won't do it.
44:31 Haley Sacks? I mean, until Mrs. Dow Jones comes out with her own, like, her own bowl. That's the only one that you would do. Obvious. And that's really why you're here. So sort of propose that to me.
44:41 Speaker 00 I turned down, I recently turned down.
44:44 Haley Sacks? Name names.
44:45 Speaker 00 A very big one that used to have a smoothie at Air One.
44:51 Haley Sacks? You can't say who?
44:51 Speaker 00 I don't think I should.
44:52 Haley Sacks? Well, say it and then we'll cut it out.
44:56 Haley Sacks? Wanted to do a Meadow Lane? That's sort of hard to say no to.
44:59 Speaker 00 Not really. No matter who it was, I wasn't gonna, A, pay for.
45:04 Haley Sacks? Oh, you to pay them?
45:05 Speaker 00 Probably.
45:06 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
45:07 Speaker 00 I think. I don't know, actually. But I wasn't gonna take something that had been done, especially with all these Air One comparisons I already get. You know, I wasn't gonna be gimmicky and like a copycat, kind of.
45:19 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I hear you.
45:23 Haley Sacks? Where are you in, like, where are we going with this? Like, are we gonna do other locations? Are we gonna see Meadow Lane and the groceries and like not nationwide and grocery stores, like a Meadow Lane Chicken Finger that you can buy at Whole Foods? Like, what's the, there's so many different ways that you could do this.
45:39 Speaker 00 Yeah. Back when I was launching this, I was like, if this business breaks even, I will be happy.
45:42 Haley Sacks? Damn.
45:43 Speaker 00 Cause it's a tough business.
45:44 Haley Sacks? It's a really, no, it's such a hard, but you, it's like, you've really cracked it.
45:48 Speaker 00 Yeah, but we became, we were operating at a profit on week two.
45:51 Haley Sacks? So crazy.
45:52 Speaker 00 Most restaurants need at least a year, minimum. So I was like, oh, this might actually be something. And the, you know, we can go in multiple different directions. So expanding with different locations.
46:06 Haley Sacks? Okay. Which neighborhoods do you think are most, like, Meadow Lane-y?
46:09 Speaker 00 I have an eye on a small one in the West Village.
46:13 Haley Sacks? That would do so well.
46:14 Speaker 00 Yeah. Decent sized one in Flatiron.
46:18 Speaker 00 Small one in NoHo, large one on the Upper East Side.
46:21 Haley Sacks? Ooh, like a little Butterfield competitor. You gotta get that fro yo going, brother.
46:25 Speaker 00 I don't want to deal with fro yo.
46:26 Haley Sacks? People love fro yo.
46:27 Speaker 00 It's such a nightmare.
46:29 Haley Sacks? They love it. It actually is. I actually looked into starting a frozen yogurt business and the margins were so bad and it is a nightmare because you have to like clean the machines.
46:37 Speaker 00 Yes, they always break down.
46:38 Haley Sacks? It's such an, it is a nightmare.
46:39 Speaker 00 Yeah. And I also don't want to try and do something that someone else has done really well.
46:44 Haley Sacks? I know, but even when I go to Air One though, like I like their fro yo too. Like it's a fun thing to add on at the end. Like, okay, I'm getting my chicken fingers, but also like maybe I'm gonna have a little sweet treat. Nothing wrong with that.
46:55 Speaker 00 Yeah.
46:55 Haley Sacks? Okay, but I don't hear Brooklyn, so I actually have to leave now.
46:58 Speaker 00 It could, it could be Dumbo or.
47:00 Haley Sacks? Please, can that be first?
47:02 Speaker 00 Maybe.
47:02 Haley Sacks? We need it.
47:03 Speaker 00 We'll see.
47:04 Haley Sacks? Okay, what are, so if you don't expand, what are the other ways that we could do this?
47:08 Speaker 00 You could run simultaneous streams. So you could do CPG. So there's certain items that are shelf stable that we make in-house, like granolas and roasted nuts or kale chips, even certain pastry items that we could sell to other retailers.
47:29 Haley Sacks? Okay.
47:29 Speaker 00 So I haven't worked on that yet because like we've only been open 90 days.
47:34 Haley Sacks? Yeah, it's so crazy.
47:36 Speaker 00 But it is in the back of my mind.
47:38 Haley Sacks? Okay, so you opened in a political moment where the new New York City mayor ran on taxing the rich and the affordability crisis. And do you feel like any tension between what Meadow Lane represents and that mood? Like, do you think about that?
47:54 Speaker 00 I mean, we were delayed a year. So the, the planning on opening was not strategic. We were delayed and it was out of our control, which was thoroughly documented on TikTok. It's not like I intentionally opened amidst this affordability crisis, which by the way, like was happening long before it was advertised in the press. Like, there's always been incoming insecurity and massive wealth disparity in this city. So I don't know why that was suddenly new. I guess maybe they were polling statistics. But there's always been scale to goods and services. There's always been a range from automobiles, from. Toyota to Rolls Royce, from economy to first class, from, you know.
48:38 Haley Sacks? Generic to name brand.
48:39 Speaker 00 McDonald's to Michelin fine dining restaurant. You know, from an affordable grocery store to a not so affordable grocery store. Why is this news?
48:49 Haley Sacks? Zara to Chanel.
48:50 Speaker 00 Correct. Like, what's, and these are all necessities. Foods are necessity, automobiles are necessity, healthcare is a necessity. There's always been a range. So I didn't understand why my 20, my 2,000 square foot store was getting blasted so much because there's other stores that sell very similar things for higher price tags, but they didn't get the press coverage we did. And that is because of my marketing on TikTok.
49:16 Haley Sacks? Yes.
49:17 Speaker 00 It, it generated enough buzz where like other, that others didn't.
49:21 Haley Sacks? And I think it was also you too, because people hate generational wealth.
49:24 Speaker 00 Yes. And the only publication to write about this topic was the Wall Street Journal, which was like last week. They were the only ones to cover it, doing the history of gourmet grocers. You know, like from when.
49:37 Haley Sacks? Oh, yeah, I saw that. They did such an amazing piece on that.
49:40 Speaker 00 Yeah, I was like, thank you.
49:42 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
49:42 Speaker 00 Like, is that, like, are journalists are finally doing journalism? You know, versus like these other publications that are just like saying, imposing it as like this new idea. I'm like, you guys like, don't do research. You know, I mean, why, wouldn't you be more outraged by like the $1,000 a head Omakase restaurant? Versus my $23 bowl? I mean, objectively, I am out of touch.
50:08 Haley Sacks? Yes.
50:08 Speaker 00 Of course.
50:09 Haley Sacks? But don't you feel like that's like, like that, that was, they, they villainized you because you were an individual and because like you stood for sort of the antithesis of this new M'Ghannani age.
50:19 Speaker 00 I mean, it definitely contradicted his, how he ran his campaign. Because when the New York Post has a headline that says, what affordability crisis? There are lines around the block to get into this grocery store selling $65 olive oil. You know, it was so politically charged.
50:36 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
50:36 Speaker 00 Right wing media was like, there's no affordability crisis. Look at Meadow Lane. Left wing media was like, does New York really need a luxury grocery store?
50:45 Haley Sacks? Yes.
50:45 Speaker 00 I'm like, babe, there's like 20 in a five mile radius.
50:48 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
50:49 Speaker 00 Like, what are you talking about? So no one captured the fact that two things can be true at the same time. That amidst an affordability crisis, there are still a large cohort of individuals that can afford a premium on food. And this is not at the end of that lux spectrum in terms of premium.
51:07 Haley Sacks? Okay, really excited about this app. Feel like there's something here for us as well, you know?
51:13 Speaker 00 Yeah.
51:13 Haley Sacks? Maybe we're leaving with a kernel of friendship.
51:16 Speaker 00 Of course.
51:16 Haley Sacks? Yes, maybe even more than a kernel. I don't know. We'll see if the chicken finger is raw. But thank you for being here, Sammy.
51:23 Speaker 00 Thank you for having me.
51:24 Haley Sacks? Stay rich. I know you are.
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Previous Listen to This Before You Co-Sign That Loan (Dear Sugar Mama) Next How One Woman Turned Divorce and Financial Collapse Into a Bestselling Memoir (ft. Belle Burden) Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated