Pod Insights Financial Tea with Mrs. Dow Jones How to Build a Successful Cannabis Brand w/ oHHo's James and Nicola Stephenson About this episode oHHo founders James and Nicola Stephenson join Haley for a THC beverage and to discuss building a successful brand from the ground up, getting to know your customer, how to be efficient with capital, going into business with your spouse, oHHo's foray into the energy drink market, and so much more!
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Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Haley Sacks? I have to just tell everyone I finished mine and I feel awesome.
0:05 Speaker 01 Well, that's good.
0:06 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I feel so, but I don't feel like, oh my God, like I have to call my doctor. I just feel chill, like, like relaxed. This is Financial Tea.
0:20 Speaker 02 The other day I was going through my desk and I found a journal right from when I graduated and it had pen and paper, how much I spent each day. At this time, I think I was making around $40,000 and access cash flow was pretty tight. So I had to watch every penny. I think about how far we've come with technology and advancements to help us with this stuff. We don't need a journal with pen and paper anymore. The answers are out there and Monarch is one of those answers. Monarch is literally, it's like having a financial advisor in your pocket. So you can use AI to help see what you're spending. Monarch will help you have full visibility into your accounts. It will help you see your trends.
1:02 Speaker 02 It will help you set goals, map out big purchases, see if you're actually on track to where you wanted to be. You can ask Monarch's AI assistant, anything about your finances. Like, hey, how much did I spend on travel last summer? Can I afford this vacation without touching my savings? You can spot things you wouldn't think about before, like, oh, hey, has my spending gone up or just inflation? I was using pen and paper. Now you can use tools, like a full financial advisor in your pocket, and that's called Monarch. So what you want to do is you want to go to monarch.com, use code trading. The first year of Monarch Core is half off at just 50 bucks. That's 50% off your first year.
1:46 Speaker 02 Just go to monarch.com with code trading.
1:49 Haley Sacks? Okay, we all love to romanticize being your own boss, but even when you have a team, you still end up being the bookkeeper, the marketing department and the person rearranging appointments at 11:00 PM. And that work isn't just annoying, it is expensive and it's especially taxing for businesses that run on appointments. So if you own a business that takes bookings. This one's for you. Gloss Genius is a system that runs the operations for you behind the scenes. Scheduling, payments, admin handled automatically. Payment processing is a flat rate with zero hidden fees and checkout rebooks clients on the spot. Clients can book in seconds too, so there's no login or separate app necessary. So you actually get more appointments.
2:33 Haley Sacks? 125,000 businesses already trust Gloss Genius to earn them more and save them time. Want to try it out for yourself? Go to glossgenius.com and use code FINANCIAL for 50% off your first two months of a premium plan. Okay, today I have a very special couple guest. I know you guys love when I have couples on. So I invited James and Nicola who founded this amazing luxury cannabis and CBD wellness brand, Oho. Okay, today is sort of like 420 themed JK, but it's like get on board. So you guys, welcome to the Financial Tea Podcast.
3:09 Speaker 03 Thanks for having us.
3:10 Haley Sacks? Oh, and I didn't mention they have British accents. So it's like gonna automatically be a really cool episode just for that reason. But first, let's get into the MDJ Market Report. Okay, what's up sippers? Welcome back to the MDJ Market Report. I'm coming to you live from Los Angeles. Yes, your girl is in California. I have two stories for you this week because you obviously need to know how the market's moving. But these were the ones that really jumped out. And then I obviously do have to say go Nick because you know, they're playing. Don't sports bet, obviously. No sports betting. So our first story is about Trump accounts, which a lot of you asked me about because I feel like a lot of my sippers have kids. And they're like, okay, what do these mean? We're going to get free money. I'm confused.
3:50 Haley Sacks? And when they were first announced, I was talking about them, but there was no way to actually like sign up or make it happen. And so I wanted to mention them on today's show because they're finally up and running. They're officially here. And the deal is that any child under 18 with a social security number is eligible for them. But the kicker is that children born between 2025 and 2028, shout out to my nephew Ernest, can get a $1,000 government contribution. So that means that if you have Kid born between 2025 and 2028, free $1,000 in that account if you sign them up. That's the most important thing, though, guys, because they're not going to automatically get the $1,000. You need to actually sign up for it.
4:33 Haley Sacks? And then after that, you can contribute up to $5,000 a year in the account, which sounds great, but there's like a lot of restrictions with the account. Like they control what you invest in and like all these things. And so I would rather you focus on like a 529 and a custodial Roth IRA and those other children accounts if you're going to be putting extra money into it. But please get the free $1,000 because that is major. And this is also just a great incentive to start investing for your child at birth. Because if you do that and you let compounding do its thing, you know, with this account, if you max out the contributions every year, the account could hit 191,000 by age 18 and by retirement could be over $2 million, which is huge.
5:18 Haley Sacks? So yes, take the free $1,000, but really look at this as a bonus account, not the main event. A 529 or custodial Roth is going to give you better tax advantages. The Trump accounts are really nice, but they're definitely not the most powerful tool in the toolbox. So we love them, but we also are not like going to get catfished into only using them. Okay. And then the second story I want to talk about is Backrooms. So the number one movie in America this weekend was Backrooms, which was directed by Kane Parsons, who is 20 years old and started making videos about the concept on YouTube as a teenager.
5:58 Haley Sacks? And the movie cost about $10 million to make and it pulled in over $80 million in its opening weekend alone. 80 million. So this is so crazy, I think, just as like an economic signal, because for the last decade Hollywood has been obsessed with franchises. Like that's what they've been betting on Marvel, Harry Potter, like anything with a built in audience. But I feel like this is a ship because studios are now going to figure out that internet communities are actually intellectual property. Like Backrooms wasn't just a movie. It was years of YouTube videos and fan theories and games and lore that built this deeply engaged audience before a studio even spent a dollar. I think that these communities are more loyal.
6:42 Haley Sacks? They're younger than traditional audiences and they're also cheaper to reach. So I would not be surprised if we saw the Hollywood model flip and instead of like creating a franchise and then trying to find fans, studios went first for where fans are and then turned them into the franchise. And so I think that we're going to see a lot more YouTubers and creators with Hollywood deals because really the content isn't even the asset, the audience is. But love you guys. I will see you next week and I hope that you love this episode. Be sure to rate, review, subscribe. Let me know if there's any guests that you're dying for me to have. We love all the feedback and stay rich. Enjoy the episode.
7:26 Haley Sacks? We always start the show with the same way. I'm going to ask you three rapid fire questions coming at you. What is your financial ick?
7:34 Speaker 01 I hate meanness.
7:35 Haley Sacks? Like meanness with like be like
7:36 Speaker 01 Meanness with money, being tight with money, like being tight with other people with money. That's my way of like, ugh.
7:42 Haley Sacks? Okay, like cheap.
7:43 Speaker 01 Yeah, don't be cheap.
7:44 Haley Sacks? Okay, love that.
7:46 Speaker 01 That's my ick.
7:47 Haley Sacks? Great.
7:47 Speaker 01 James would love me to be more cheap, but my, but my ick would be, yeah, people who are cheap.
7:53 Speaker 03 My ick is when she's not being cheap.
7:56 Haley Sacks? That's a good ick. Okay, what were your best and worst purchases of the week? I know it's only Tuesday, but.
8:02 Speaker 03 Wow, yeah.
8:04 Speaker 01 I bought a very overpriced but handmade pair of slippers. So it was best because they are absolutely beautiful and I'm going to shout out the brand called Sand M. But of course I did not ask the price, not thinking they could possibly be what they got. So it was my worst too, but they're beautiful. Check them out.
8:21 Haley Sacks? So best and worst because you love the slippers, but also like the price.
8:25 Speaker 01 Not quite, not quite what I was planning. So there I am being cheap, but I was trying, I was hoping, yeah, no, best and worst.
8:33 Speaker 03 Too early for me. I don't think I've bought anything yet.
8:35 Speaker 01 You probably bought some.
8:35 Haley Sacks? What about all your tequilas?
8:37 Speaker 03 I bought too many tequilas last night. Yes. Good point.
8:42 Haley Sacks? And lastly, do you feel rich today?
8:45 Speaker 01 No.
8:48 Speaker 03 Rich in experiences.
8:50 Haley Sacks? Rich in experiences. Okay, we're gonna get into that.
8:52 Speaker 03 We're in a startup, so no.
8:54 Haley Sacks? Yeah, no, I get it.
8:56 Speaker 01 We're so deep.
8:57 Haley Sacks? We're so deep. Wait, talk to me about that. Like, when you're in a startup like this, like, it is impossible to really feel like, okay, like, like, ever, like, financially confident or, like, solvent, I feel like.
9:11 Speaker 03 It's getting there.
9:12 Haley Sacks? It is. Okay, great.
9:13 Speaker 03 It takes time.
9:14 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
9:14 Speaker 03 And it's taken a long time. Too long.
9:19 Speaker 01 Yeah, and we had, we had sold a company. My first company we had sold in 2018, and so we felt rich for a minute. And then.
9:32 Haley Sacks? What was that company?
9:34 Speaker 01 It was a PR company.
9:35 Haley Sacks? Oh, cool.
9:35 Speaker 01 A marketing company. And it was in London and New York, and we sold it to a group that was gonna go public, and everything that could have gone wrong in that transaction went wrong. That is a story for a martini.
9:47 Haley Sacks? Okay.
9:47 Speaker 01 And so.
9:49 Haley Sacks? Maybe two.
9:49 Speaker 01 So you feel like you're rich, you know, for a minute, and you get that money in your bank account, and you're like, wow. And then we got into, we were not aligned with our acquirers, which happens all the time when you sell your company. And that is something someone should write a book on. And so we ended up in a fight. So we spent money fighting.
10:09 Speaker 03 Which you don't wanna do.
10:11 Haley Sacks? So you had to spend what you made on lawyers.
10:13 Speaker 01 So that was part of it.
10:15 Speaker 03 A substantial proportion.
10:17 Haley Sacks? That sucks.
10:18 Speaker 01 But my dad also gave me some really great financial advice, which of course I ignored when he was alive, which is, it's all very well selling your company and having that moment, but the minute you're not working, you're not earning.
10:33 Haley Sacks? Yes.
10:34 Speaker 01 And so you're into your reserves, and your life doesn't change, right? You're still going to the grocery store, you're still sending your kids to school.
10:41 Speaker 03 Unless you've made an exponential amount of money, you know.
10:45 Speaker 01 Different.
10:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
10:46 Speaker 01 But then you're living on your reserves, and we are both, I speak for us both, but we are both completely unemployable. So then we had to start again.
10:53 Haley Sacks? No, I agree with that. I am also unemployable. It's either this or nothing.
10:57 Speaker 03 I've got far too much to say for myself.
10:59 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I agree.
11:01 Speaker 01 And then you've got to put the money that you have into starting something new, and then that's gonna take time. So it just, yeah. It all is a cycle. And then you have to, you know, everyone's like, oh, that company that's doing, you know, a hundred million, and I'm like. You know, that great expression of it takes whatever 25 years
11:19 Haley Sacks? To be an overnight success.
11:20 Speaker 01 Right? Like it takes a long time.
11:22 Haley Sacks? It's so funny too, because I feel like the media loves to highlight, of course, the overnight successes. But like, I know with Mrs. Dow Jones, like, this is year nine for me.
11:30 Speaker 01 Yeah, no such thing.
11:32 Haley Sacks? Oh, it's been one foot in front of another, like, even now, being in this moment with the book and stuff. It's like, it doesn't, this was all day by day. And there's, of course, those people who start on social media and are immediately one week in, have 300, 400,000 followers, but it just couldn't have been me. You know, that's who they always compare you to, though.
11:53 Speaker 01 But I don't know that it's anyone, when you really look into it, they've all had different. So, yeah, anyway, I was very short no for me. You might be feeling rich today, I don't know.
12:05 Haley Sacks? I love it.
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13:03 Haley Sacks? Well, I have to say, this is, speaking of my book, this is a very opportune time to be recording this episode because, full disclosure, I am terribly hungover. I'm just warning you, don't worry, I have had Excedrin, I have had a bath, I have had a Coca-Cola, I've had a nap. Like, I am genuinely thrilled to be here and I'm good. But I do feel like the universe is sort of Shouting at me today that I need to trade my obsession with drinks and alcohol for THC. And this is really where Oho comes in. So I'm excited. I've actually never tried it. So I feel like it's maybe the time, like, I don't know, like, is it crazy? Like, should we just pop one?
13:42 Speaker 03 So these are three milligrams. So they're the lowest we do. So, yeah, very relaxed.
13:47 Haley Sacks? Okay, so cantaloupe and wildflower honey. First of all, like gorgeous.
13:51 Speaker 03 This is our summer flavors, cantaloupe and wildflower honey.
13:54 Haley Sacks? Okay, cheers.
13:55 Speaker 03 Cheers.
13:57 Haley Sacks? You're a little hungover too, so.
13:59 Speaker 03 Me? No.
13:59 Haley Sacks? No, no, no, couldn't be you.
14:04 Haley Sacks? Oh, that's so good.
14:05 Speaker 03 It's pretty good, huh?
14:06 Haley Sacks? Oh, my God, the cantaloupe? When do you ever have like a cantaloupe as a flavor? That's so thoughtful.
14:11 Speaker 03 It really is.
14:12 Haley Sacks? It hits, but it's like very cantaloupe.
14:14 Speaker 03 And then you've got the honey kind of coming through.
14:16 Haley Sacks? It doesn't feel at all artificial. Like, it's just like, I feel like.
14:19 Speaker 03 That's our thing.
14:20 Haley Sacks? You're, this is amazing.
14:22 Speaker 01 Can I have a sip, please?
14:23 Haley Sacks? Yeah, you need a sip. And now that we're really like selling it, we're really having it, but it's so good. Okay, so.
14:29 Speaker 03 So this is a limited flavor. So, yeah, this is for the summer.
14:32 Haley Sacks? I love it. So, but speaking of like, you know, people thinking about not drinking, we're seeing this massive cultural wave right now. Like, the data is showing that Gen Z is drinking 20% less alcohol per capita than millennials. Recent polling shows only about half of Americans under 35 are drinking alcohol at all, which is crazy. And I feel like younger generations are just so much more mindful, like, and they associate alcohol with like, you know, bad sleep and anxiety and a hit to their productivity and mental health. And so I'm just wondering, like, how did this sober, curious trend sort of affect your initial decision to start Oho? Or were you just, did you happen to just catch the perfect wave?
15:17 Speaker 03 A little bit of both. We didn't start in drinks initially. We started in right back when, in like 2021, we started in CBD, that kind of.
15:25 Haley Sacks? Oh, wow. Okay, amazing.
15:26 Speaker 03 Yeah. Realized there's a lot of mediocrity in the category. Sort of spent a year trying to find, develop some great products, find some great partners to make them. And then we started in CBD, tinctures, gummies, topicals. I was always very skeptical about topicals, about, you know, putting CBD in topicals. Were they actually going to work?
15:49 Speaker 01 Brought you some to try.
15:50 Speaker 03 Yes.
15:50 Haley Sacks? Oh, yeah, I love it. Those are like creams.
15:52 Speaker 03 Correct.
15:52 Haley Sacks? Oh, they're amazing.
15:54 Speaker 03 They are. They are if they've got a decent amount of, you know, cannabinoids in them.
15:58 Haley Sacks? Oh, wow.
15:59 Speaker 03 But a lot of them had like 25 milligrams of CPD in the entire pot and it's not going to do anything.
16:04 Haley Sacks? Okay, I'm so excited to try.
16:05 Speaker 03 Yeah, so we went into, into, into topicals. Chocolate's became a huge thing. Can you tell the story about that one, how that came about?
16:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, we were working with a hotel group approached us about having our sleep products in the rooms and they wanted to use our tincture. And we were like, that's a kind of big barrier, you know, I can't imagine you checking into a hotel and opening a tincture and how much do I take? And so we created a chocolate square, you know, that you used to get when you.
16:35 Speaker 03 Turned down.
16:36 Haley Sacks? Oh, that's so smart, like to put on the pillow.
16:38 Speaker 01 To put on the pillow.
16:39 Haley Sacks? Genius.
16:40 Speaker 01 But Jay is really obsessed with drinks generally.
16:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, I, I just saw drinks as the biggest opportunity.
16:47 Haley Sacks? I mean, this is so good, but also even you saying the hotel group thing, I'm like, the whole vibe of the brand feels really elevated. You know, like this feels like something that, I mean, we're talking about Gen Z and millennials, but this feels like something that even if you're sort of like above that age category, you could go for.
17:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, and have something that feels approachable and, you know, a lot of hemp products historically and, and, you know, marijuana products have been probably targeted.
17:20 Speaker 03 Spiky green leaves.
17:21 Speaker 01 Yeah, targeted towards guys, not, you know, feel a little bit intimidating. This is really a product category that's exploded, that is really aimed at the kind of everyday consumer, you know? And they're shopping in the grocery store, the liquor store or whatever. And so it's, it's a really new audience as well, I think.
17:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:42 Haley Sacks? So there wasn't like this aha moment when you realized that the culture was shifting dramatically? It was sort of, like you said, like a series of events.
17:49 Speaker 01 I think everything that we were doing, which is very typical of startup, led us to like, you know, keep evolving.
17:57 Speaker 03 We initially developed these for the regulated market in New York.
18:01 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:01 Speaker 03 Um, but the reality is drinks make up such a tiny proportion of dispensary sales, like maybe one or two percent. And then along came this opportunity to derive the THC from hemp, which was federally legal, so it allowed us to then sell it in retailers like liquor stores and grocery stores and it just changed the landscape completely.
18:22 Haley Sacks? I love that. So the other thing that I was thinking about before you came on was, you know, all of these celebrity liquor brands, like there was such a gold rush there of, you know, we saw Casamigos, we saw The Rocks, Tequila, like all of these brands. And then, of course, the Kardashians jumped on board and, you know, Kendall started 818, which hasn't sold, doesn't seem to be doing incredibly well. And then Kylie started Sprinter, which was, is a, you know, canned cocktail line. And now they're pivoting to electrolytes. So I'm just wondering, like, do you think that canned cannabis cocktails are sort of
19:03 Haley Sacks? going to replace the traditional celebrity tequila or seltzer? And then when you were launching the brand, did you ever think about bringing maybe a celebrity on to front it to sort of follow that wave?
19:15 Speaker 01 So I think the alcohol category itself has done an incredible job at adopting THC beverages. So they have identified, you know, it's a little split, but you've got retailers like Specs in Texas or Total Wine, and they are now clearing aisles to bring in THC beverages.
19:37 Speaker 03 Total Wine started last year, I think with maybe an eight foot line of THC. It's now like at 40 feet.
19:43 Haley Sacks? Wow. That's crazy.
19:45 Speaker 01 And so a lot of people, I think, get a little down on the alcohol industry, but the alcohol industry has really been a leader in looking at the consumer trends. And George Clooney just launched a non-alcoholic beer. So non-alcoholic beer is massively on the rise. Heineken massively on the rise with NA, NA cocktails coming through. I think where THC has a slight edge is if you have a non-alcoholic cocktail, you're kind of swapping a drink. Where you're gonna get some effect.
20:20 Haley Sacks? You're getting, you're, yeah, you're.
20:21 Speaker 01 For a sugary drink.
20:22 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
20:23 Speaker 03 It's like a consolation prize, right?
20:24 Haley Sacks? I agree, like with the mocktail stuff, it is just like, I'm drinking juice and I'm not getting anything, but like at least with this, I'm getting a little.
20:31 Speaker 01 But you're getting a little something and if you want a little more, you can have a little more. So I think that the industries have kind of come together, the, the odd couple, basically, the cannabis industry and the alcohol industry have kind of come together around this category and that has really helped it to explode.
20:49 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I feel like the modern luxury now is just feeling functional the next day when you wake up.
20:55 Speaker 01 Totally.
20:56 Haley Sacks? But do you, are you targeting the younger audience or are you targeting people who are maybe more like middle aged?
21:02 Speaker 01 So.
21:03 Speaker 03 It's quite broad, really.
21:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, we're in over 21 product. So I would say it's so interesting. You've got people in different life stages. So you've got young people who are like maybe going to yoga class, whereas I was probably falling out of the taxi, having.
21:18 Haley Sacks? A hundred percent. I have like a huge scar on my shoulder from getting too drunk, literally, like.
21:24 Speaker 01 And tipping out, but you know.
21:25 Haley Sacks? Yeah, like waking up with a gash, like couldn't be me.
21:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:30 Speaker 01 Was that me? But they are, you know, going to, they're finishing work, they are going to an exercise class, then maybe having a drink, like something like this. Then you've got that kind of older, say mom, who just cannot be hungover. You know, she's got.
21:49 Speaker 03 She has to wake up at six in the morning.
21:51 Speaker 01 At six AM and she's like, I really want to have a rosé on a Friday, but I just also don't want to wake up on a Sunday.
21:57 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
21:58 Speaker 01 So I think people are adding it into their routine and using it to drink less.
22:03 Speaker 03 And the older generation as well is taking it.
22:05 Speaker 01 And then you get old and you get menopause, not sleeping and that's a whole other.
22:08 Haley Sacks? Oh, yeah, that's so true.
22:10 Speaker 01 Who are just like, we can't drink anymore.
22:12 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
22:12 Speaker 01 And I can't sleep and you're gonna sleep brilliantly. And you say it all the time, you know, Jay's had his own relationship with alcohol, which is, which.
22:23 Speaker 03 A hundred percent.
22:23 Speaker 01 And that has been.
22:25 Speaker 03 I love it. I mean, don't get me wrong. I came from that generation.
22:28 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
22:28 Speaker 03 But.
22:28 Haley Sacks? No, I love it too.
22:32 Haley Sacks? It's so fun to get drunk, but it is hard after.
22:37 Speaker 03 It is. As you get older, it just gets worse.
22:40 Haley Sacks? I mean, I'm feeling it, buddy.
22:43 Speaker 01 No, but you were like, I have to, I have to make a change.
22:46 Speaker 03 I have to make some changes.
22:47 Speaker 01 I have to make some changes in my life, otherwise I'm just gonna be.
22:50 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
22:51 Speaker 03 An old drunk.
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23:56 Haley Sacks? So this is the second time that you guys have started a business. So what were the absolute like first steps that you sort of took when you decided to build Oho? Like, how do you approach that initial phase? And this is for anyone listening who wants to start a business because this is now your second endeavor.
24:13 Speaker 03 Sure.
24:15 Speaker 01 So I think, you know, we are, not everyone's the same, right? But we're very kitchen table, right? So we are like secondhand furniture, bootstrap, own money, own capital.
24:30 Speaker 03 Perfect concept and get it, get it that far.
24:33 Speaker 01 You know, one, one plus one, 100% growth in sales. You know, like we stood in fields in farmer's markets with the product at like eight in the morning, you know, and, you know, that's one route. And then the other route is you go out and you raise gobs of capital. At a valuation and maybe you have something that works and maybe you can't. And I always remember someone telling me this great story where they were like, this company's amazing. It's doing, you know, two million in revenue. And I was like, how interesting, how much capital have they raised? And he was like, 20 million. And I'm like, that's not a business. If I raised 20, I should be doing a hundred, you know?
25:10 Haley Sacks? A hundred percent.
25:11 Speaker 01 So I think, I think not getting bent out of shape on your equity, not getting bent out of shape on your capital, being really efficient and not being frightened to go slower.
25:25 Speaker 03 You'll make mistakes, undoubtedly.
25:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. And, and you don't have to, you know, people want to tell you how much money they're making and how much product they've put out there. But actually, did you come back and buy it again?
25:36 Haley Sacks? Oh, that's it.
25:37 Speaker 01 Like, that's what we are looking for.
25:40 Haley Sacks? I feel like, you know, in this age of marketing, you obviously have marketing backgrounds. How do you decide what's really worth the investment? Like, there's this, you know, age of influencer gifting and ad spend. And what have you really seen actually move the needle for a luxury beverage brand? Or is it like, you should just do as much as you can?
26:02 Speaker 03 Well, we're quite restricted to what we can do.
26:04 Haley Sacks? Oh, interesting.
26:05 Speaker 03 Because of cannabis.
26:06 Haley Sacks? Okay.
26:07 Speaker 03 So Nick is more the marketing guru, but that has been a big barrier. So there's a lot of things we simply can't do. We've obviously been on Meta, Instagram, Facebook.
26:18 Speaker 01 Yeah.
26:19 Speaker 03 That's a very expensive game.
26:20 Speaker 01 It's, that's how, you know.
26:22 Haley Sacks? It used to be a lot cheaper.
26:23 Speaker 03 It is.
26:23 Haley Sacks? Yeah, and now it's, that's not where to go.
26:26 Speaker 01 Yeah, like how to lose, you know, 10 million bucks.
26:28 Haley Sacks? A hundred percent.
26:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:29 Speaker 01 I would say one of the best things we've done, not intentionally, is we had this opportunity to take over an old firehouse in Beva Village, which is obviously your home, your backyard. And we turned it into a cafe, you know, for the brand. And it's open from eight in the morning till eight at night. So you come in, you buy a coffee, you buy some product, you, you know, and that's.
26:54 Speaker 03 We have other brands and products that are adjacent to our products. And you can talk to your customer.
26:58 Haley Sacks? Yeah, that's huge.
26:59 Speaker 01 That's really cool.
27:00 Speaker 03 Key thing.
27:01 Haley Sacks? So you just mentioned the restrictions of running a cannabis-based business in terms of marketing. What are other like frustrating regulatory or like financial headaches of running a cannabis business that no one really knows about or talks about?
27:14 Speaker 03 Having to work with a bank, there's very few banks that will work with you.
27:18 Haley Sacks? Oh, interesting. So hard to get loans?
27:21 Speaker 03 Almost impossible.
27:22 Haley Sacks? Wow.
27:23 Speaker 01 You pay more for everything. So your insurance is a premium, your trucking is a premium.
27:28 Speaker 03 Your car.
27:29 Haley Sacks? They really come for you.
27:30 Speaker 01 Yeah.
27:31 Haley Sacks? They're like, oh, we're gonna legalize it, but we're gonna take so much of it. Where is the actual cannabis, like, where, like, how do you produce it?
27:39 Speaker 01 So we derive everything from hemp.
27:41 Haley Sacks? Oh, okay.
27:42 Speaker 01 So we're in, we're in the hemp derived THC.
27:44 Speaker 03 So hemp and marijuana are basically cannabis genus, basically. The same plant, what separates them is the amount of THC. So you just need more hemp to get the THC from.
27:55 Speaker 01 Marijuana is not federally legal, although President Trump is trying to push through a de-escalation and reschedule. And that is great, because that will open banking and 280 tax, and that will help. But hemp is federally legal. They are trying to shut it down. So we're fighting, trying to keep it open. So, you know, yeah, all day is a new challenge.
28:21 Haley Sacks? Wow. And then the other thing that I was thinking about, besides the regulatory thing, is like, you're obviously in business with your spouse. So how do you sort of prevent business stress from bleeding into your relationship? Like, how do you keep things separate? How do you keep your romance alive, like, and keep the spark strong?
28:41 Speaker 03 I think we're both, we're both very lucky. We love working.
28:46 Speaker 03 We know what we're doing in the business. Inevitably, it always comes home, right? But it doesn't necessarily, it's a negative thing.
28:55 Haley Sacks? Of course, because it's also like when you run a business, if you don't leave that at home. Like, it's such a big part of your life and your identity is like having that business, building that. So you're bringing it home always.
29:05 Speaker 01 Yeah, and the kids live it, you know?
29:08 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
29:08 Speaker 01 We're never on time.
29:10 Speaker 03 Both of them wanna, wanna be entrepreneurs for some reason. I don't know why.
29:14 Speaker 01 Yeah, everything is a compromise. Nothing is perfect, you know?
29:17 Haley Sacks? I love that.
29:18 Speaker 01 It's the usual, but we didn't know that we would change it, but.
29:23 Speaker 03 Well, as we're unemployable, so we don't really have a job.
29:26 Haley Sacks? I love that. I feel like that's gonna be the title of the episode. How did your like personal approach to your finances and like wealth management shift or evolve once your entire household income became mixed up with this company? Because it's like you still, you have kids, you want to plan for college, you want to like, send them to do, you know, you still have expenses and you want to live a certain quality of life, but you're also so in this business and we hope that it goes to the moon, but with any startup, there's a risk. So how do you plan for that?
29:58 Speaker 01 I think, um, you know, you read about it all the time about people going right to the wire, you know, to the not really being able to get 20 bucks out of the cash point and then it kind of turning around. Um, I think you have to sort of have a little bit of that in you if you are gonna set, be in a startup because you turn around and be like, the company needs X and, and it's got to come from you. So we, we manage it as best we can, but nothing is perfect, you know?
30:33 Speaker 03 And you've got to have utter belief. That's the one thing. That's the one thing. If you're going to set up a, you know, business, you've got to believe it's going to succeed.
30:40 Haley Sacks? But in terms of like the actual numbers, like how are you protecting yourselves?
30:45 Speaker 01 So I think being able to pay yourself a modest salary, the sooner you can, the better.
30:52 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
30:52 Speaker 01 Um, so that's really important. And then keeping aside, keeping a little bit back, protecting your assets, um, and knowing when you need to raise money and knowing when you've got to draw that line on getting deeper in yourself, you know, knowing where your limits are and where your comfort level is.
31:14 Haley Sacks? Nicola, during your appearance on Lipstick on the Rim, you spoke really beautifully about sort of major health event. So I just wanted to ask you a little bit about how, you know, getting diagnosed with cancer changed not only your personal outlook, but sort of the entire trajectory of your life and like the purpose behind Oho, because that's such a big moment and I, so powerful to hear you speak about it.
31:41 Speaker 01 Um, it was a really just so unlucky situation. We had just moved to the States. We've been here about six months.
31:56 Speaker 01 We had set up, we'd expanded our New York office, we had an amazing team here. And the business was just exploding. And then I got a mouth ulcer and I had a, you know, two by four centimeter tumor in my tongue.
32:13 Haley Sacks? Wow.
32:15 Speaker 01 So I was treated at Memorial Sloan here in New York. Dr. Richard Wong saved my life, no doubt. And it was a real watershed moment, I think, for us as a family, as a couple. I think you look at everything differently. And I'm not saying money becomes any less important to you, but I think what fulfills you, doing what makes you feel good, learning what you say no to, I think those all become much more.
32:46 Haley Sacks? Obvious.
32:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, obvious, yeah, because you say yes to everything, like, yes, I can be here and I can be there and actually.
32:53 Speaker 03 No is a complete sentence.
32:55 Speaker 01 No is a complete sentence.
32:56 Haley Sacks? That's good. So just gave you a lot of perspective.
32:58 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then when Jay really wanted to start Oho and he asked me if I would help him. And he had helped me so much in my work life. It was really just like a joy to be able to jump in and help out. So.
33:19 Haley Sacks? That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. So how much money have you raised for your company? Because you said that you first got it like to a place where it was making money.
33:28 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:29 Haley Sacks? And then how did you, like, what?
33:32 Speaker 03 Making revenue, not making, not, not, it wasn't profitable.
33:34 Haley Sacks? Yeah, but it was, we were selling.
33:37 Speaker 03 It was rolling.
33:37 Haley Sacks? It wasn't.
33:38 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:38 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
33:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:40 Haley Sacks? Important, but also.
33:41 Speaker 01 Sales are rolling.
33:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:43 Speaker 01 We did a.
33:46 Speaker 01 Um, adventure VC.
33:48 Haley Sacks? Mm hmm.
33:49 Speaker 01 So we started with a VC, which we kind of loved and recommend because VCs expect to lose their money.
33:56 Haley Sacks? Ah, this is why I don't do VC.
33:59 Speaker 01 Then we did a small friends round and then we did a convertible round. So all in, we've probably raised only about six million. And we're rolling around.
34:10 Speaker 03 With lending as well, I think.
34:11 Speaker 01 And a bit of debt and then we're rolling fifteen million. So that's where we are today.
34:15 Haley Sacks? Wow, that's amazing.
34:16 Speaker 01 So super efficient on the capital front, which you can do it. I, I think we've pushed it a bit hard.
34:24 Haley Sacks? Yeah.
34:24 Speaker 01 Um, and we're raising a round for energy, which is our new.
34:29 Haley Sacks? Oh, yeah, I'm really excited to try that.
34:31 Speaker 01 And then we've been very lucky. We've had, um, you know, there are a lot of options open to you, like you can factor your invoices and you get charged for that, but you can basically use that. We have, um, a partner that helps us with big purchase order financing. So if we need to order like twenty million cans, we can do that and buy time on that. So I think it's about looking at all the things you can leverage. Um, whilst not, you know, having your own thing, you know, whilst not diluting yourself to the point where you're going to put all your blood, sweat and tears into it and get to the end and be like, I don't own it anymore.
35:07 Speaker 03 Yeah, people raise a lot of.
35:09 Haley Sacks? So, so how much you own now of the business?
35:11 Speaker 01 Probably about thirty five percent.
35:12 Haley Sacks? Oh, that's great.
35:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:14 Haley Sacks? Um, and you're, but you're doing another round. So will you have to give up more equity?
35:18 Speaker 01 So that'll be in a subco.
35:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:20 Speaker 01 And then we'll, yeah, a small round, so.
35:23 Speaker 03 Try and carve out some non-dilute.
35:25 Haley Sacks? Yeah, yeah, yeah, keep it, keep it as much as you can.
35:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:28 Haley Sacks? How?
35:29 Speaker 03 And we have, you get options as well, obviously, so you can.
35:31 Haley Sacks? Oh, love an option. So good. Um, how much revenue do you think you need to get to before you are a company that people want to buy? And who do you think would want to buy you? Like, what's like your dream exit here? Like, walk us through, like, um, if everything goes right.
35:48 Speaker 03 Just trying to get through today.
35:49 Haley Sacks? Okay. I didn't know if we had like a, like a vision board.
35:53 Speaker 01 So you actually ask a great question, which I think is the financial world you're trying to come to grips with. So you're seeing like Liquid Death just go public.
36:02 Haley Sacks? Oh, okay. So there's even.
36:03 Speaker 01 No one can buy Olly Pop because the money is too big, right? Like they're making over a billion dollars. You know, we have two quite separate businesses, you know, THC is in a more regulated framework. And then energy is like, we can sell that to anyone.
36:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:18 Speaker 01 So, you know, it'll be really interesting to see, is it, you know, Diageo, did Diageo move into the THC space and acquire, do most of course take a position? Is it more Coca-Cola? Who knows?
36:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:33 Haley Sacks? But you're saying you're at 15 now, like, do you, where do you think that you would have to go to get the deal that you want? And like, how much are you growing year over year?
36:42 Speaker 01 So we grew 105% year over year last year.
36:46 Haley Sacks? Okay, killing it.
36:47 Speaker 01 That's very, was very exciting.
36:50 Haley Sacks? Yeah, that is so exciting.
36:51 Speaker 01 Shout out to the Oho team because they all contributed heavily to that.
36:54 Speaker 03 Big time.
36:54 Speaker 01 So I think like, if you want anything started, like a fire, like, you know, anything, we're, we're really good at that.
37:02 Speaker 03 Really good at that.
37:03 Speaker 01 We're really good at grinding it out, starting it with nothing, getting it going. But you get to 50 million, 100 million, your expertise that you need.
37:13 Haley Sacks? It's very different to run that company.
37:16 Speaker 03 Yep.
37:16 Haley Sacks? Once it's not like a startup anymore.
37:18 Speaker 01 Right.
37:18 Haley Sacks? It's a real business.
37:19 Speaker 01 So I think for us, it'll be recognizing at what point we need to have people that can really help us scale to that level.
37:28 Speaker 03 Yep.
37:29 Speaker 01 And we'll go as far as we can. Um, but I think 50 to 100 million will be a really good moment for the bank.
37:38 Haley Sacks? I like really believe in you guys. Like, I'm like, okay, like this is really gonna happen. Um, like, I love the product and I just feel like you're, you can tell everything about a company's success through the founders. And I have to just tell everyone I finished mine and I feel awesome.
37:54 Speaker 01 Love. We are loving that.
37:56 Haley Sacks? Yeah, I feel so, but I don't feel like, oh my God, like I have to call my doctor. I just feel chill, like, like relaxed.
38:03 Speaker 03 And over the course of an evening, you can maybe have two or three. There's a.
38:07 Haley Sacks? Oh, I might have two or three. I have a meeting after this. Like, I could have another. Like, but I'm not like slurring my word like it is it's sort of the same as a cocktail where it's like you could have multiple over the night. Well, this was so fun. I love talking to you guys and more than that, I love the product. And I'm really going to be depressed if you were lying about sending it to me because this is going to be the summer of Oho for me as a can drink connoisseur. But thank you for coming on the financial tea and stay rich.
38:37 Speaker 01 Thank you for having us.
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