💡 Founder Dependency: Is Your Business Too Dependent on You? | Peter Boolkah

Disclaimer: Today’s episode is sponsored by Nurp. Content is for educational purposes only. Not advice. Results discussed have not been vetted. Claims made by the guest have not been verified. The views expressed by the guest do not reflect those of the host or this show. — 🔑 Founder dependency can quietly turn a successful company into a business that owns its founder—and in this episode, we sit down with business coach, entrepreneur, and Hamster Wheel Trap creator Peter Boolkah to explore how to build a business that can run without you. Peter explains why many entrepreneurs unintentionally train their companies to depend on them from day one—and why adding employees, working harder, or adopting AI doesn't automatically fix the underlying problem. 🤖 AI and founder dependency For entrepreneurs researching AI for business, business automation, and scalable business systems, the bigger opportunity may not simply be replacing work. It may be using technology to free the founder and leadership team to spend more time on customers, strategy, relationships, and the highest-value decisions. 📈 Building a business that runs without you A larger company that cannot function without its founder can present a very different proposition from a smaller business with predictable revenue, strong profitability, effective management, operational continuity, and systems capable of functioning independently. That distinction matters for anyone thinking about business valuation, enterprise value, business acquisition, succession planning, or eventually creating a sellable business. 🔥 Is hustle culture actually holding entrepreneurs back? Peter argues that intense founder involvement can be necessary during the early stages of building a company—but the same habits that helped create the business can eventually prevent it from scaling. At some point, the founder's job has to evolve. That means developing people, transferring authority, strengthening business processes, creating accountability, building leadership capacity, and designing a company that doesn't require the owner to personally solve every problem. 💰 Business exits, enterprise value and succession planning The episode also examines why founders should think about business exit strategy and succession planning even when they have no immediate plans to sell. A business built around one individual may become difficult to transfer, acquire, or hand to the next generation. An owner-independent operation with repeatable systems and leadership continuity can provide far more flexibility. 🧠 And there's another question entrepreneurs rarely discuss: What happens when the company finally doesn't need you? Peter explores founder identity after an exit, the loss of purpose some high achievers experience after selling a company, and why entrepreneurs should know what they're moving toward—not simply what they're trying to escape. ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ ⏱️ CHAPTERS 00:00 ⚠️ Disclaimer 00:20 🎯 The 30-Day Founder Test 01:25 🎙️ Introducing Peter Boolkah 03:10 🤖 Can AI Replace the Founder? 04:45 📈 Does AI Reduce or Amplify Founder Dependency? 07:05 💰 Which Business Is Actually More Valuable? 09:15 🏢 Can a Company Thrive Without Its Founder? 10:30 🚧 The Biggest Lie Entrepreneurs Tell Themselves 11:40 📉 Warning Signs You're Becoming the Bottleneck 12:55 ⏸️ Midroll — Leverage vs. Complexity 13:15 🗓️ The 30-Day Business Survival Test 14:40 🔥 Is Hustle Culture Counterproductive? 16:20 🏖️ Why Entrepreneurs Can't Take a Vacation 17:30 💵 Why Build a Business as If You'll Sell It? 18:50 🧠 The Post-Exit Founder Identity Crisis 20:30 🔄 Is Founder Dependency an Ego Problem—or a Habit? 21:15 🎯 Stop Chasing Someone Else's Definition of Success 23:10 💡 “Never Build…” — Peter's Final Principle 23:55 📚 The Hamster Wheel Trap & How to Find Peter 25:10 🚀 Outro: Are You Building Leverage or Complexity? 26:16 End ━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━━ Financial Freedom for Physicians, Copyright 2026

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialized blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 1:29Speaker 03

  When everything feels nonstop, movement becomes the pause. So give Lululemon this holiday season. Smooth seamless running gear builds momentum through every mile.

• 1:41Speaker 03

  Comfortable workout styles clear the way for locked in focus. And dynamic stretch expands presence through every pose.

• 1:53Speaker 03

  Give the feeling. Shop in store and on lululemon.com.

• 1:58Speaker 04

  Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just 120 bucks a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.

• 2:19Speaker 05

  Annual plan only, auto renews, T and C apply. Estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for one plus year versus non member or club member pricing slash fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info.

• 2:29Speaker 06

  Before we begin, quick disclaimer. Nothing in this episode should be considered investment advice. Results discussed have not been independently vetted. Any claims made by the guests have not been verified. The content is for educational purposes only. Views expressed by the guests do not reflect those of the host or this show. Suppose you couldn't contact your business for 30 days? No calls to your team, no messages to customers, no quick approvals from your phone? Peter Bukula asked founders a blunt question. What would you have left when you came back? That sounds like a test of your systems. But our conversation went somewhere more interesting. Peter argues that founders often teach a business to need them from its first day.

• 3:10Speaker 06

  Then, years later, they try to fix that dependency with better hires, processes, or now, AI. So I asked him, if AI can take work off the founder's plate, does that make the company more independent? Or does it give the founder the capacity to stay involved in everything? We also put two businesses side by side, one doing 10 million in revenue that can't operate without its founder, and another doing 6 million whose founder could leave. Which one would you want to buy? Peter's answer gets at why revenue alone doesn't tell you what you've built. And then, there's a question that caught me off guard. Say you succeed. The business runs without you. You sell it or you step away.

• 3:54Speaker 06

  Who are you when nobody needs you to make the next decision? Peter and I talk about AI, the habits that keep founders at the center, what makes a business valuable to a buyer, and the surprisingly personal challenge of letting it run without you. I'm Dr. Christopher Lu. This is the Financial Freedom Podcast. Let's get into it. Hey guys, welcome to another episode of the Financial Freedom Podcast. From the UK, I have Peter. He's the creator of the hamster wheel trap. He helps bestselling author, helping founders escape businesses that own them, i.e. help them create more time freedom and build founder independent companies and increase enterprise value. Really happy to have him on. It's going to be a 10x discussion. Peter, welcome.

• 4:39Speaker 07

  Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so excited with this episode. I'm going to have some really good fun.

• 4:44Speaker 06

  Briefly, the big idea is a lot of people, the general gist is they always come on and talk about how do you build a business that works without you? But in your case, we're going to talk about why are so many successful entrepreneurs, prisoners of businesses that make everyone else think they're successful? Start off with who you are and what you do, just briefly, and we'll dive into the conversation.

• 5:07Speaker 07

  Thank you very much, Christopher. I've been a coach for 21 years, but I'm not just a coach. I also build businesses of my own. So I've got multiple businesses that I build alongside the coaching. And after 21 years and years in the industry coaching other businesses, you see the patterns that no matter which continent you're on, founders keep repeating. And I just thought it'd be really good to highlight why things happen the way they do. But more importantly, what founders can do to change the circumstances. That's what led me down this pathway to writing the book and publishing it.

• 5:42Speaker 06

  And so the first theme we'll talk about is we're going to connect it to AI. Everything is, these days, is around AI. A lot of people on the show, they've asked about systems, but what I want to know is everybody's saying AI can replace employees, but can AI replace the founder? That's the question.

• 6:00Speaker 07

  Fascinating question. And if you had asked me that question a year ago, I would say that the answer to that would be potentially yes. I've seen a real change in human behavior over the last six to eight months, where actually AI is critical to any business because it will give us efficiencies. But I think instead of replacing founders, I think the beauty about AI, it will take over the stupid tasks we no longer need to do, but it will allow us the opportunity to connect with our team more, connect with our customers more, and spend more human to human time together. And actually deepen the relationships that perhaps founders have not been able to do prior to this because they were too busy doing the wrong things, if that makes sense.

• 6:44Speaker 06

  A fascinating thing was a college friend of mine, he now runs a public company. He took it public and he wrote a Twitter post. Nobody, he doesn't, no longer blogs, but a Twitter post. And he was talking about how pre pandemic and a little bit after the pandemic, a lot of his teams were 10 to 15 employees. And this year, he got rid of 70% of employees and he was able to amplify those. So those teams have two people, probably three at max, and they replaced all those people with hundreds, if not thousands, of AI agents. And their productivity went 1,000x. So does AI eliminate founder dependency or amplify it?

• 7:27Speaker 07

  You know what? It would reduce founder dependency. I think that's what you'll find, providing the founder will allow themselves to become less dependent. Because the challenge is a lot of founders, when they start a business, they often start the business by themselves. And they train the business to rely on them. So they create the habit from day one that the business must rely on them. So it's a habit they need to unlearn. But to answer your point, I am seeing founders that we are working alongside become less, the business becoming less reliant on them. And not just the founder, but also senior people in the business. And what they're doing there is they're choosing to go deeper with their customers. So I do think it's a habit that needs to be broke. I do think that a lot of the lower end tasks, like you mentioned,

• 8:12Speaker 07

  where 70 employees might have to go, that will probably happen across the board, only in the companies that adopt AI. But I think that you're starting to see companies hire people in more customer facing roles, depending obviously on what they do, to strengthen relationships, which is something that we've not seen in a very long time.

• 8:32Speaker 06

  The other question is, in 10 years, will the most valuable companies have the fewest employees? And will we ever see in our lifetime, I'm a Gen Xer, a trillion dollar AI company? With possibly one founder, maybe none?

• 8:47Speaker 07

  No doubt. Will it be, will it be multiple companies that do that? It'll be more the exception than the norm? And the reason I'm saying that, okay, I'm also a Gen Xer. What I'm seeing from Generation Alpha and Gen Zs is they're starting to rebel a little bit against this technology because they don't want their future replaced by automation. So for AI to really work, it requires adoption. It requires buy-in. And if we're not careful, we'll see an entire group of consumers consciously boycotting companies that choose AI over people. So there's going to be a balancing act that I think we need to learn to strike.

• 9:30Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 9:58Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 10:29Speaker 02

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 10:58Speaker 03

  When everything feels nonstop, movement becomes the pause. So give Lululemon this holiday season. Smooth seamless running gear builds momentum through every mile.

• 11:10Speaker 03

  Targeted support adds steadiness to every pulse and hold.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  And dynamic stretch expands presence through every pose.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  Give the feeling. Shop in store and on lululemon.com.

• 11:28Speaker 04

  Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just 120 bucks a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.

• 11:49Speaker 05

  Annual plan only, auto renews, T and C apply. Estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for one plus year versus non-member or club member pricing/fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info.

• 11:58Speaker 06

  The second theme of the conversation is tying it into wealth because the audience loves investing. You're an entrepreneur. So just a hypothetical question is which businesses, which business is more valuable or is more acquirable? One is one company, it's got 10 million revenue, but impossible to operate without the founder. You can take, for example, Zuckerberg and his or another company, 6 million revenue and the founder is gone in six months, which is actually worth more?

• 12:32Speaker 07

  It's a really interesting question because it depends on who the buyer is. So if you look at Facebook and everything, any company that has an IPO, the founder has already taken a huge amount out. So I'll give you an example. Let's look at what Elon's doing. Elon has done, just done the biggest IPO in history with SpaceX. He's made, he's made a fair whack. At some point, he's going to have to structure that business for his exit. But actually, the people that will, his route out will be to increase the shares, the office of the public. That's going to be his route out. Now, if you're talking about privately owned business, then any privately owned business

• 13:12Speaker 07

  that we deal with, I always say that if they're going to be selling to a VC, a PE company, they want a clean exit. If you can get your business to a point where it's a clean exit, that's far more valuable because it's worth, because it's got continuity. And any business that's got predictable revenue growth, predictable, strong profitability, that's a strong investment. Now, where would I put my money? I'd probably put my money in the privately owned business and I like a 6 million revenue business. Why? Depending on the market conditions, that 6 million could go to 12, could go to 18, could go with the right purchaser.

• 13:55Speaker 07

  In that instance, you'll get a far greater return on your investment. And that becomes the exciting bit.

• 14:02Speaker 06

  You mentioned, because I gather from the response, you were talking about public versus private, but how about which is more valuable, a one with a founder or one without a founder?

• 14:14Speaker 07

  It's a really difficult question. Why? Because everyone said with Apple, that Apple could never, ever succeed beyond Steve Jobs. And actually, the way that Steve Jobs ran it at the time was exceptional. Then Tim Cook came in and there was market nervousness and everything. But you look at the valuation of Apple today, he's taken it where Steve could never take it. So he's an example where without the founder, it's become far more valuable to the point now where he's going to step back and then they're bringing a new successor in. So I think there are examples, and this will teach us, that there are examples where

• 14:55Speaker 07

  a company can thrive without the founder if they've got a solid succession plan and forward-thinking strategy. And Tim Cook's done brilliantly. It may not have been as exciting as Steve Jobs, but then what do shareholders want? Do they want excitement or return on investment? I'm going to argue return on investment for them. And by, I own Apple shares as well for that reason, because I'm, I like to see the return on my investment.

• 15:24Speaker 06

  Fascinating. The, a lot of the listeners, they're listening to this and they could be in, they could be rationalizing, they could be in denial. What's the biggest lie entrepreneurs tell themselves when they are the reason why their business isn't scaling?

• 15:40Speaker 07

  Why? The reason is, number one, they are ignorant to the fact that they're the bottleneck. They won't believe it. And that's the biggest lie, that every business owner that believes that the business needs them. Created man in his image. If that is true, then the person, the founder has created the business in their image. And they've trained the business to need them. From day one, they've set the trap and they've trained the business to need them. They don't, doesn't need to be the case. But at the end of the day, if you don't like the reflection, you don't like the image, then change has to start with the founder first.

• 16:23Speaker 07

  And unfortunately for most people, change will not happen unless there's pain involved. Pain seems to be God's greatest gift in initiating change. And too many people live in the comfort zone. So yeah, no, your business does not necessarily need you if you don't want it to need you. But that's got to be your choice.

• 16:45Speaker 06

  What's the first warning sign that an entrepreneur is starting to get in his or her own way?

• 16:51Speaker 07

  The business just stalls. The business stalls. And you've got businesses at different revenue levels. Once you get to a point where each year has now become repetition and your revenue is just bouncing 10 or 20% either way, or it's medium, you're not going to go any further. If you're waiting for the market to lift you and take you on a journey, it isn't going to happen. I'll give you a great example of that. You look at the last five to six years, especially in Europe, since the pandemic, we've had an atrocious economy. The economy hasn't grown. It's literally flatlined and we've had regression. Given the fact that you've got inflation growth and GDP stagnation, it ain't going nowhere.

• 17:35Speaker 07

  You, if you're going to wait for the economy to improve, you're probably going to go bankrupt before that happens. So really what you do need to do is you need to grow and you need to change. You need to take control of your business. You need to be one looking for the opportunities. But you're never going to do that if you don't pick up the knowledge, you don't change who you are. And that's the problem.

• 17:55Speaker 06

  Quick pause here. If this episode is making you rethink how your income is structured, that's intentional. Information doesn't create freedom. Structure does. At the end of this episode, I'm going to show you how to diagnose whether you're building leverage or just scaling complexity. Let's get back into it. Another practical question is, how many weeks should an entrepreneur disappear before they know their business is healthy?

• 18:21Speaker 07

  Got a test. And us being Gen Xers, you can relate to this. Up to the age of about 45, we could get away with abusing our bodies, like the long days, the drinking and everything. Unfortunately, and I don't know what it is, but once you get to your mid 40s, stuff starts to break in your body. Unfortunately, it's the truth. And what you'll find, for the majority of people, ill health is the biggest killer of business. It's not so much heart attacks after the age of 50, but strokes are far more devastating. And I don't know if you've known anyone that's had a stroke, but it's not uncommon when

• 19:00Speaker 07

  someone's had a stroke for them to be vocally impaired, visually motor neuron impaired and cognitively impaired. And there is a recovery process with that. But imagine this, you can't communicate with your business for a month. So you can't speak to team if you happen to have them. You may not have a team member, you may be a solo entrepreneur. You can't speak to your customers, you can't speak to your suppliers, you can't speak to anybody. How many people truly would have a business to come back to after 30 days? And that is the ultimate test. If your business cannot survive 30 days without you, you don't own, your business owns you.

• 19:38Speaker 06

  Next, talk about with in this day and age, we'll talk about people talking about conventional wisdom. And what I'm wondering is hustle culture, passion, working harder, is that actually counterproductive? Is that destroying businesses? Is that the wrong answer? Is that dangerous?

• 19:56Speaker 07

  I think for the first five years of spinning up a business, you have to do all those things. Because spinning up a business is one of the hardest things you'll ever do. That's fine. But at which point do you take stock and say, okay, the business is now running? What do I need to do differently to now start to give it the life that I want? And the problem that you that most founders have is they go into business with a romance. Oh, it's going to give me more time, it's going to give me a great life. I'm going to earn the money that I've always dreamt of. But when you're doing all those things, and you're hustling day in, day out, by the time you get to year five, and that 80% of businesses do not make it to five years anyway, and you're one of the 20%, you've

• 20:39Speaker 07

  lost the ability to dream. You think that your reality today is your reality forever. So you don't change it. But that's not sustainable, because at some point, if you carry on doing what you've done, you may make 10 years, but I promise you this, you probably won't make 15 or 20. You need to sometimes slow down, take stock, and you need to rethink, okay, at this stage of the company's life cycle, how does the strategy need to change? So it has longevity and not become a danger.

• 21:13Speaker 06

  Fascinating. We'll talk about founders intentionally becoming replaceable in identity. But so here's an interesting concept. A lot of employees, their dream is becoming a social media celebrity, or an entrepreneur, taking a company public. And a lot of entrepreneurs dream of taking a vacation. Why is that?

• 21:32Speaker 07

  People want these things. And that really gets, that really gets on my nerves when people say, I want to be a social media celebrity. I want to be an influencer. Please do me a favor. There will be, very few people will make it to influencer level, like very few people will become football stars, basketball stars. The reality for everybody else, we're mortal. You're going to have to earn the right for those things. And if you can't take those things right now, it's because you don't have the competency to do it. So you're going to have to go and learn new skills. See, the one thing I love about the economy doesn't discriminate against skin color, ethnicity, geolocation, culture, none of that stuff.

• 22:13Speaker 07

  It only recognizes one thing, competency. And if you are competent, you get rewarded. If you don't have the competency, you get punished. So if you are not able to take holidays, you are being for not working out how to structure your business to give you the time to be able to take it.

• 22:33Speaker 06

  A follow up question I have for you is, some entrepreneurs never sell. And if they never intend to sell their company, why should entrepreneurs are being taught they should build it like you will sell it or exit? Why is that?

• 22:47Speaker 07

  You run a business for 20, 30 years. What are you going to do with the business afterwards? You've got to have a plan, right? You've got to have an end goal. Why would you run a business for 20 or 30 years and then just close it? And that's what happens to so many businesses. They're unsellable. Surely, you want an exit plan where you get rewarded for your 20 or 30 years' work. Would it not be better to sell something? So that you get something in return? Would it be not better that if you've got a family business, and you're looking at the generation below, and you want them to then, maybe if they want to take over the family business, then you structure it. So you give them a business

• 23:30Speaker 07

  that they want to take over, and not give them a poisoned chalice that's going to ruin their life, like it ruined your life?

• 23:38Speaker 06

  Interesting. We have around five minutes remaining. Along those same lines, the other question is, when founders actually sell their company or exit their business, they face this identity problem. They don't know who they are. If they get removed from their company, who are they?

• 23:55Speaker 07

  Again, what's the challenge? You can't transition into something unless you don't know what you're transitioning into. And very often, what I say to founders, it's a bit like retiring. If you're not careful, retiring without a plan is giving your body permission to die. Selling your business without a succession plan of what you want to do, is going to give yourself permission to get into depression. There's this thing called success, that a lot of founders suffer from when they sell up. Because actually, they've now got the money, but they've got no purpose. And therefore, they plunge into depression. You know what? That's really prevalent with professional sports people.

• 24:40Speaker 07

  They maybe spend 15 to 18 years at the top of their game. And I know a couple of professional sports people where they've had their career cut through an injury, no fault of their own. And all of a sudden, they've gone into a mental quagmire, where they've just started drinking, and they've gone into an abusive relationship with themselves, because they've got them, they've got no next plan. So don't sell your business until you have a plan before the, after the, because you risk doing yourself more damage than good.

• 25:10Speaker 06

  I love that. Talking of bringing it home, are entrepreneurs chasing freedom? Or are they chasing significance? Is founder dependency really an ego problem?

• 25:21Speaker 07

  I think it's a habit problem. It's a habit problem. And very often, they're trying to be helpful and everything. But they're not realizing that they're damaging their organization. Don't get me wrong. There are people out there that have a massive ego. They are narcissists. And these people unfortunately cannot be helped. Pain is going to be the only thing that will ever teach them to have some humility. For the rest of the people out there, they just don't know what they don't know. Until we can open up their eyes to this is not necessarily healthy and normal, they will not change, because they don't understand that there is a better way of doing it. And hopefully, by podcasts like

• 26:04Speaker 07

  yours, we're able to open the curtains for them, and start them on the journey of an alternative pathway.

• 26:13Speaker 06

  Here's something that was on my mind the other day, because I've been thinking a lot. And we're all chasing, we're all chasing something. For some, it's to become a millionaire, some it's ex 70 millionaire, others billionaire. Ultimately, all of us are going to die. Some of us early, some of us late, we never know, right? So is there really any purpose for chasing becoming a billionaire? Because it seems like we're chasing these things because it's what's portrayed in the media with celebrities, Steve Jobs, Elon Musk, and these types of people. Is that overrated?

• 26:44Speaker 07

  It depends on what your goal is. For some people, it's not about the money, believe it or for a lot of the wealthy people I work with, it isn't about the money, it's about the achievement. They, the challenge of what they can build. And a lot of them, in the end, set up foundations, and they give away their money. But because they're high achievers, they need the challenge. They need to keep growing as humans. And for other people, I think my biggest advice to everybody is make sure you're clear on what your dream is, what your goal is. Because if you're clear on your dream, your goal, then you will not be chasing anybody else's dreams and goals. I think that's where we have a

• 27:28Speaker 07

  problem with the media, is people chase other people's goals, because they're not clear about what they want. They're empty inside about their life. No, get clear about what you want. Get clear, find, be clear about what's going to make you happy, and then chase that. You can never be happy chasing anybody else's dream.

• 27:45Speaker 06

  I once read a book, unfortunately, it was by Trump, I hate the guy. He was talking about, at a certain level, it becomes a scoreboard. It has nothing to, because people love the process. In his case, it was real estate. Unfortunately, I hate Trump. That's a different story. Final question is, which I really loved your last statement, and with a memorable sentence. And here's the thing, never build dot dot. What would you fill those blanks in with?

• 28:10Speaker 07

  I say, never build a business or a life to please somebody else.

• 28:16Speaker 06

  I love that.

• 28:17Speaker 07

  That's the big thing. I think people in general are people pleasers. If you are happy, as a founder, as a leader, you will create a culture of happiness within your business. If you live your life in chaos and trauma, you will bring that to other people that you serve.

• 28:38Speaker 06

  Fascinating. And I know some people, their goal is just to build a happy, stable, healthy family. And it has nothing to do, as long as they have the resources to pay for food and shelter, clothing, they're happy. And for others, it's like they have to chase that next exit, or raise that money. So it just all depends. How can people learn more about your system, the hamster wheel trap, and how can they connect with you and learn more? I really enjoyed this conversation.

• 29:05Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker, or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by Indeed. You're ready to level up your business, but the pressure to find the right person to make that happen is intense. Indeed sponsored jobs can help carry the load. It boosts your job post to help it reach quality talent fast. Cut through the chaos with Indeed sponsored jobs. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring now? Then this is a job for Indeed sponsored jobs.

• 30:04Speaker 02

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade: Hydrates Better Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 30:33Speaker 03

  When everything feels nonstop, movement becomes the pause. So give Lululemon this holiday season. Smooth, seamless running gear builds momentum through every mile.

• 30:46Speaker 03

  Targeted support adds steadiness to every pulse and hold.

• 30:51Speaker 03

  And dynamic stretch expands presence through every pose.

• 30:58Speaker 03

  Give the feeling. Shop in-store and on lululemon.com.

• 31:03Speaker 04

  Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just $120 a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.

• 31:24Speaker 05

  Annual plan only, auto renews, T and C apply. Estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for one plus year versus non-member or club member pricing/fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info.

• 31:34Speaker 07

  Likewise, he's been fascinating. We probably could have done a Joe Rogan and gone on for hours. The best way to do it, buy a copy of my book. So it's available on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, all the good shops. The reason I'm doing that, I want it to be in the hands of as many founders as we possibly can get, so we can start opening the curtains and giving them the option to change their lives. They may not want to, but the option is there. Now, secondly, if you want to connect with me, just type my name into Google and choose how you want to connect with me. Because we have, it's a crazy world. We have Instagram, we have Facebook, we have X, we have YouTube, we have podcast channels, we have my website, emails.

• 32:17Speaker 07

  I think the best thing is for you to choose where you want to follow, where you want to connect, and I'll leave it up to you.

• 32:24Speaker 06

  Awesome. I love that. Omni presence. Really enjoyed this conversation. For the audience, Peters, resource in the show notes, Google him, you'll find all his social media, and thanks so much for coming on.

• 32:36Speaker 07

  Thank you so much for having me. It's been a blast.

• 32:40Speaker 06

  Let's zoom out. If you're a physician, founder, or high-income professional, and you feel like you're working harder every year, but not structurally freer, you're not alone. The mistake is an effort, it's architecture. This show exists to help you convert expertise into scalable leverage, faster and with fewer expensive missteps. Here's the diagnostic I mentioned before. If your income requires your constant presence, if your capital isn't compounding outside your profession, if your highest value talent is doing low-value tasks, you don't have a growth problem, you have a leverage design problem. And if you want to fix it with clarity instead of guesswork, I offer a limited number of one-on-one leverage strategy sessions each month.

• 33:25Speaker 06

  We audit your income model, capital deployment, authority positioning, and structural bottlenecks, and design your highest return move. If you're serious about compressing years into months, the link to apply is below.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 34:11Speaker 03

  When everything feels nonstop, movement becomes the pause. So give Lululemon this holiday season. Smooth, seamless running gear builds momentum through every mile.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Comfortable workout styles clear the way for locked-in focus.

• 34:29Speaker 03

  And dynamic stretch expands presence through every pose.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Give the feeling. Shop in-store and on lululemon.com.

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Sam's Club is the club for every holiday club. Guess who's joining the club this season? Walmart Plus. Yep, Sam's Club Plus membership now comes with Walmart Plus at no extra cost. Two memberships, one great price. Just $120 a year can save you time and over $700. Want to get in on the membership duo of the century? Visit sam'sclub.com. Come join us. Sam's Club.

• 35:02Speaker 05

  Annual plan only, auto renews, T and C apply. Estimate based on average combined Walmart Plus and Sam's Club Plus savings among members of both for one plus year versus non-member or club member pricing/fees. Excludes membership fees. See Walmart Plus terms and Sam's Club terms for more info. When you shop pickup at Kroger, you can expect the savings you love and fresh groceries selected just for you. Our associates are committed to getting every detail right, carefully handpicking your items, checking for quality and freshness, and packing your order with care. Because bringing you fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. And right now, enjoy $20 off your first online order of $75 or more. Restrictions apply, see site for details. Kroger: Fresh for Everyone.