Pod Insights Fin vs History Let the Rabbit See The Dog (with Ania Magliano!) | The History of Beauty Standards (Part 2) About this episode Buckle up, we’ve entered the empathy void.
Beauty Standards (Part Two)
This episode of Fin vs History is brought to you by Surfshark.
Secure your privacy with Surfshark! Enter coupon code FVH for an extra 4 months at https://surfshark.com/fvh
The show for people who like history but don't care what actually happened.
For weekly bonus episodes, ad-free listening and early access to series, become a Truther and sign up to the Patreon
patreon.com/fintaylor
Chapters:
00:00 - Bollocks
04:03 - Just The Tip
09:39 - Practical Muscles
14:06 - The Ultimate Triangle
17:07 - Money Talks
21:14 - Trail Mix
29:02 - The Irish Head
34:36 - And A Thumb
36:19 - Fin’s Beard
41:06 - Brazilian Brain Lift
43:45 - The Denim Phrenology
46:42 - The Cheeseburger
52:04 - Hair’s Back
57:17 - Beckham’s Cornrows
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Transcript 13,799 words · 7 speakers
0:01 Speaker 00 Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light, with a specialised blend of five electrolytes, was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light: Hydrates Faster Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.
0:30 Speaker 01 When you shop Kroger Delivery, you can expect the savings you love and fresh groceries delivered right to your door. From delicious produce to everyday essentials, enjoy the convenience of delivery and the trusted selection you've come to know from Kroger. Because bringing you fresh, quality groceries is what we do best. Right now, enjoy free delivery on orders of $50 or more with your digital coupon. Restrictions apply, see site for details. Kroger: Fresh for everyone.
1:01 Speaker 02 Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on Lowe's.com, right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that, at Lowe's.
1:42 Speaker 03 Welcome back to Finn vs. History. Joining me, Torey Showgirl. Hello. And Ania Magliano. Hello. To get into male beauty standards. Let the rabbit see the dog. Oh, very interesting. We're going to really have our eyes opened. A new perspective. Yes. Women find stuff attractive too. Yes. I'll believe it when I see it. It's really interesting.
2:02 Speaker 04 Watch this play out already.
2:03 Speaker 02 Yeah, because you already saw the first episode.
2:05 Speaker 04 I saw the first one. I watched some of it. Yeah. And then sometimes I went on my phone.
2:09 Speaker 02 Sure.
2:09 Speaker 04 It was very funny.
2:10 Speaker 02 Yeah. What did you think about the kind of, what do you think about men's view of women then, I guess, from that?
2:16 Speaker 04 I thought really positive.
2:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:18 Speaker 04 Really positive, really solid.
2:19 Speaker 02 Yeah.
2:20 Speaker 04 Felt like you got to the nub of a lot of situations.
2:22 Speaker 03 It was objective, I think.
2:23 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:24 Speaker 04 It was objective. If anything, it was too objective.
2:25 Speaker 02 Bird's eye view.
2:26 Speaker 03 Well, I don't want to bring feelings into it.
2:28 Speaker 04 I thought, are these guys asexual? Because they are refusing to comment on some of their stuff.
2:33 Speaker 03 Yeah, no, we showed remarkable restraint.
2:35 Speaker 02 I guess the great difference, though, I think, I would say this is probably a more interesting topic because it's more complicated.
2:42 Speaker 03 Yes.
2:42 Speaker 02 It's got less strict rules, I believe.
2:45 Speaker 04 Well, you recommend men's beauty standard.
2:46 Speaker 02 Yes.
2:47 Speaker 04 More complicated.
2:47 Speaker 02 Would you say that, so the, the, the gender you're trying to attract defines your beauty standards? Would you agree?
2:53 Speaker 03 Well, this is what's interesting about male beauty standards is that they're sort of to some extent set by men.
2:58 Speaker 04 Yes.
2:58 Speaker 03 Rather than women.
3:00 Speaker 02 But is that true?
3:01 Speaker 03 Well, we'll find out.
3:02 Speaker 02 Because if women only liked guys who like, you know.
3:04 Speaker 03 But, but, but this is.
3:05 Speaker 02 Then we would be like that.
3:07 Speaker 03 Hold on.
3:07 Speaker 02 You know what I mean? Like denim cut off.
3:09 Speaker 03 No, you know, you know what I mean.
3:10 Speaker 04 Yeah, sorry, I know what you mean.
3:12 Speaker 02 And a cigarette.
3:13 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:13 Speaker 02 Like, if that was like, that guy's fucking.
3:15 Speaker 03 These days, these days, he's getting loads of pussy, that guy.
3:17 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:19 Speaker 02 But if, if straight women loved, if straight women loved that.
3:22 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah. Amazing hypothetical, straight off the bat.
3:25 Speaker 02 If, um, then straight guys would, would be like that.
3:29 Speaker 03 Hmm.
3:29 Speaker 02 Wouldn't you think?
3:30 Speaker 04 I don't know, because I thought what was, what was striking about the male beauty standards is it does feel like a lot of them are about like looking strong or good for war or stuff like that, where I actually think it's for other men to look at and be like.
3:42 Speaker 03 Totally.
3:43 Speaker 04 This is nice for me.
3:44 Speaker 03 This was my thought during the Manosphere documentary.
3:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
3:47 Speaker 03 Was that you had these men who were ripped and bragging about money, speaking to an audience of men, using women as a prop to impress men.
3:57 Speaker 04 Yeah, totally. I totally agree. Yeah.
3:59 Speaker 03 It's not actually straight at all, the Manosphere.
4:01 Speaker 02 But I wouldn't say they're male beauty standards. I think they're off the boil because I don't think that's what women find attractive, but then you.
4:07 Speaker 03 But that's what I mean. So when we talk about male beauty standards, this is really something that men think men should look like rather than women. Because women like soft men.
4:16 Speaker 02 Sometimes.
4:17 Speaker 03 Soft, no, they like soft bellies.
4:18 Speaker 04 Hold on, hold on.
4:19 Speaker 03 Please.
4:19 Speaker 02 Not too soft.
4:20 Speaker 04 Let's slow down a tad.
4:21 Speaker 03 I'm being objective.
4:22 Speaker 02 Do not interrupt him while he's talking.
4:24 Speaker 03 I'm being objective. I'm a scientist.
4:26 Speaker 04 All right, I'm walking. I'm walking.
4:29 Speaker 04 You've had two and a half women on this podcast, so I'm gonna leave halfway through.
4:32 Speaker 03 Correct me if I'm wrong, but for women, sexuality is tied more to ethereal concepts like,
4:39 Speaker 03 you know, whether you left the fridge door open that day. What direction the wind is blowing in. Has there been a microaggression in the day? That's what I mean, it's unknowable.
4:51 Speaker 02 It's not as much.
4:52 Speaker 04 It's unknowable. For women, it is mostly about, has there been a microaggression in your day?
4:56 Speaker 03 Yes.
4:56 Speaker 04 And that's what a lot of people are missing.
4:58 Speaker 03 Yes.
4:58 Speaker 04 If there's been a microaggression in your day, you're horny as hell.
5:01 Speaker 02 I guess it's more like crystals, star signs, it's this.
5:06 Speaker 03 Bollocks.
5:07 Speaker 02 It's a load of shit, it's not a science.
5:09 Speaker 03 No, it's not objective.
5:10 Speaker 02 You know, you can't, you can't test it.
5:12 Speaker 04 Whereas for men, women's beauty standards, it's subjective.
5:14 Speaker 02 Well, you know, there is.
5:15 Speaker 04 Tits ass, something in the middle, for god's sake.
5:18 Speaker 03 Yeah, ideally.
5:19 Speaker 04 I think, but not, but not.
5:22 Speaker 03 Not too much.
5:23 Speaker 04 Not too much, not too much.
5:24 Speaker 02 Unless you're into. There's nothing in the middle, we'll make do.
5:26 Speaker 03 Unless you're into that, which is fine.
5:28 Speaker 04 What I, what I will say is, I think it's a mix. Like, I think it might have gone too far the other way now. And there's too much focus on like, men's vibes. And it's like, let's not forget that you need to look alright.
5:40 Speaker 02 So the ugly hot sort of revolution.
5:42 Speaker 04 Ugly hot revolution.
5:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, Roden Boy Summer, Dad Bod.
5:45 Speaker 04 Yep.
5:45 Speaker 02 I think, yeah, but I sometimes feel like women imply beauty standards of men to be like, we can do it too. But it doesn't last because your heart's not in it. Because you'll see a fat slob, but he'll have a confidence to him.
5:57 Speaker 04 Yeah, and energy.
5:58 Speaker 02 They'll just have an energy and you're like, no, I do find this more attractive than the muscle guy. And then you'll want that to happen for you guys from men, but it just never does.
6:05 Speaker 03 No.
6:06 Speaker 04 Well, that's why I think.
6:07 Speaker 02 That brain dead woman who's attractive has nothing interesting to say, no, I still prefer her.
6:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:11 Speaker 04 That's why I think we need to.
6:12 Speaker 03 No, no, no.
6:13 Speaker 04 We need to improve men's standards.
6:15 Speaker 03 I prefer her now until I've come and then I'm sad.
6:19 Speaker 04 Because?
6:20 Speaker 03 Because I'm, she's awful and she's an airhead and I've come. So the problem is that male.
6:24 Speaker 02 You're a victim.
6:25 Speaker 03 Yes, I'm a victim. Female beauty standards would be.
6:28 Speaker 04 Sorry, I'm sobbing over here. It's hard to hear, it's hard to hear. It's hard to. He's come and she's an airhead.
6:35 Speaker 03 I didn't mean to get all Richard Gad on this podcast.
6:38 Speaker 02 This is your Netflix stuff.
6:39 Speaker 03 This is my half man who's just come.
6:42 Speaker 02 I had sex with a gorgeous boring woman.
6:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, and now I'm sad because she's boring and I don't want to have sex for five minutes. Now, if men could set female beauty standards in the five minutes of post nut clarity, they would think like women do. Women are thinking of post nut clarity or pre nut clarity or just clarity because they're not really nutting. So do you see what I mean? There's a, there's a.
7:03 Speaker 04 But do you not think in that five minutes, maybe it's just about changing what you do? Watch YouTube video or something, maybe don't interact with her at all.
7:10 Speaker 02 What do you mean?
7:10 Speaker 03 Is that not coming now? Would that not be rude to immediately come and start watching highlights of my phone?
7:16 Speaker 02 It's not far off.
7:16 Speaker 03 When she wants to cuddle.
7:17 Speaker 04 Is that rude? Okay, that's going to make me reassess some of my past experiences.
7:21 Speaker 03 But again, you're half a woman, so I don't know if we can take your.
7:23 Speaker 04 Hold on, what?
7:24 Speaker 03 Whatever you just said. That's what you just said, isn't it?
7:27 Speaker 02 You're like a minotaur.
7:28 Speaker 03 God, it's a fucking mousetrap, this.
7:33 Speaker 04 I've come on here to catch you out.
7:34 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:34 Speaker 02 And I guess I think I talked about this on stage, but the, it's interesting the, how, what it takes for a woman to get off. Like the erotic fantasy novel, are you into erotic fantasy novel? So like the, the way that they build these whole worlds to get themselves off. And, and it can come out of the page that this like magical elf king.
7:51 Speaker 03 Reading.
7:52 Speaker 02 Is like reading and then the opposite, I guess.
7:54 Speaker 04 And you can close the book, that's what's quite nice as well, you can stop.
7:57 Speaker 02 Yeah, I guess you can't close the video of your stepmom getting stuck in a washing machine. But you have to fuck her out of it. That's the thing, she's stuck.
8:06 Speaker 03 I'm saying.
8:06 Speaker 02 She's stuck, but this is what's interesting about that. This is a male fantasy, your stepmom gets stuck in the washing machine, but she needs help. And the only way to help her, to get her out, to dislodge her, she has to fuck her out of it.
8:17 Speaker 03 Be a provider.
8:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, so I guess that's our fantasy erotica is sort of, it's a bit more literal, I guess.
8:22 Speaker 03 I think stepmom stuck in washing machine doesn't quite have the same, on the page.
8:26 Speaker 02 It's like an actor's studio.
8:28 Speaker 03 I think on the page, it doesn't quite have the same effect.
8:30 Speaker 04 Well, yeah, it would be shorter, wouldn't it?
8:33 Speaker 03 Harry Potter and the stepmom gets stuck in a machine. It doesn't quite have the same effect as like the crown of, what's the?
8:39 Speaker 04 A Court of Thorns and Roses, thank you very much. Yeah, well, that's all about like, it's like a peasant girl and she's like a normal human. Like she's not that, she's like not, not like other girls, cause she like wears trousers.
8:52 Speaker 02 Yeah, lesbian.
8:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, and then.
8:55 Speaker 03 There's a shorthand for that.
8:57 Speaker 04 And I'm in shorts, so what does that mean?
8:58 Speaker 02 Bisexual.
8:59 Speaker 04 Thank you. We're learning. So she's like a peasant human girl and she falls in love with this fairy king. He's sort of sexy and he's the most, the fantasy I think is like, she's very powerful, she gets powers, right? He's the only person in the universe more powerful than her, but he fancies her.
9:18 Speaker 02 He chose her.
9:19 Speaker 04 He chose her.
9:20 Speaker 02 And what I also think is interesting, because I, a friend of mine was reading A Deal with the Elf King. Do you know that one? That's another big one. It's a woman who fucks an elf, alright, but. But it's also, I feel there's, part of the fantasy is like a man listening to you.
9:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, oh god, yeah.
9:33 Speaker 02 Like even though we're in this other world and they've built all this stuff around it and they have like a thousands of years of history, but fundamentally it's a woman's talking.
9:41 Speaker 04 Yeah.
9:41 Speaker 02 And the guy's like not interrupting, you're listening.
9:43 Speaker 04 He asks the question. He asks a question and you're reading it and you're going, oh god, I've come, I've actually come.
9:50 Speaker 03 It's amazing.
9:51 Speaker 04 Look at his ears. That's why they have those pointy ears is so they can listen to women.
9:54 Speaker 02 Yes, my god, the fuck, that's it.
9:57 Speaker 03 It makes so much sense.
9:58 Speaker 04 All the, all the information goes straight in the tip of the ear.
10:01 Speaker 03 But you know what it is though?
10:02 Speaker 04 Just the tip.
10:05 Speaker 03 Just the tip but for ears. Because the problem is that I, I sometimes, I tell myself, listen to the wife. Like she'll like you listening and then I come up with a solution and I have to go, no, no, no, don't say that. Don't solve the problem, god forbid, it'd be helpful.
10:19 Speaker 02 Solutions are poison.
10:20 Speaker 03 Solutions, solutions dry the fanny up. It's the, it's the listening.
10:24 Speaker 02 God, I'm learning a lot, actually.
10:25 Speaker 04 Is that true? I think a well timed solution.
10:28 Speaker 03 You're bisexual.
10:29 Speaker 04 Oh god, yeah.
10:30 Speaker 03 So you will like a solution at the right time.
10:32 Speaker 04 Yeah.
10:32 Speaker 02 So well timed.
10:33 Speaker 04 Sorry.
10:33 Speaker 03 Exactly, exactly.
10:34 Speaker 04 Wow. And it's happened right now.
10:37 Speaker 03 Straight women don't want a solution.
10:39 Speaker 02 They don't.
10:39 Speaker 03 They want you to be just a sort of chasm for their problems that you.
10:43 Speaker 02 It's validate the feeling.
10:45 Speaker 03 Yes, without solving the problem. It's a very, very hard.
10:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, but that's got me out. Maybe that's because I'm bisexual. That's been a problem in my relationships, not validating the problem. Because sometimes it is invalid.
10:56 Speaker 03 Yes.
10:56 Speaker 02 I mean, now you're. We're trying to bring someone on who disagrees.
11:00 Speaker 03 Just got another fucking phrenologist on the crash.
11:04 Speaker 03 Just a phrenologist with long hair.
11:08 Speaker 05 Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero powders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body. With a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colours or flavours, great tasting hydration no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade: Hydrates Better Than Water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.
11:37 Speaker 01 Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalised offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger. Fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.
12:09 Speaker 02 Now at Lowe's. Faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in-store or on Lowe's.com, right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving. Just like that, at Lowe's.
12:37 Speaker 03 I guess before we get into it, do you have a, what's your, you know, we've been chatting about how it's more vibes and less definable, the aesthetics perhaps than the female beauty standards.
12:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
12:48 Speaker 03 What would you say physically, if it's possible to remove the competence and the microaggressions out of the picture?
12:54 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
12:55 Speaker 03 What's your male idea?
12:56 Speaker 02 In an objectifying way.
12:57 Speaker 04 In an objectifying way. So I think I used to be, I used to be drawn in by this kind of weak thinker.
13:06 Speaker 03 Sickly.
13:06 Speaker 04 Sickly.
13:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:08 Speaker 04 Like.
13:09 Speaker 02 Philosopher on his deathbed.
13:10 Speaker 04 Yes.
13:11 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, the solitary genius.
13:13 Speaker 02 Yes.
13:13 Speaker 04 The male artist.
13:14 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:14 Speaker 04 I think.
13:15 Speaker 02 One bad winter could kill him.
13:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
13:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
13:18 Speaker 04 And one good kiss could heal him.
13:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, okay.
13:23 Speaker 04 That's my book, write it down. And I think, and I think I used to like, I would go for-
13:28 Speaker 02 That's very much brain, that's about the brain.
13:30 Speaker 04 Exactly, yeah. I would go for men who can't really leave the house unattended. Indoor, indoor boyfriends, want to keep them in.
13:38 Speaker 03 Because you're a homemaker.
13:39 Speaker 04 No, I wouldn't say so, just because I think because they're too scared of the outside world.
13:44 Speaker 02 Cats, right.
13:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, like indoor cats, yeah, have an indoor boyfriend. But now I think I'm more interested in like, let's get some of this classic male beauty standards back. Tall, handsome, muscles.
13:58 Speaker 02 Right, so like the male Sydney Sweeney sort of.
14:00 Speaker 04 Yes, but like still with a bit of like roughness.
14:03 Speaker 03 Jacob Elordi.
14:04 Speaker 04 Yes.
14:05 Speaker 02 Long man.
14:05 Speaker 04 Australian.
14:06 Speaker 03 I absolutely nailed that.
14:07 Speaker 04 Yeah. Really proud, really proud. Did you get that fed into your ear? I'm sure that you got it through an earpiece.
14:14 Speaker 03 Jacob Elordi.
14:17 Speaker 04 But I do think, I still do think it is energy because I think you can meet someone who is physically attractive. And if their, if their vibes are bad, like that's, that can be anti-sexual.
14:26 Speaker 03 Harder for women to be, to be all vibes based, isn't it?
14:28 Speaker 02 So, yeah, you're going to a more masculine man. What do you think, I feel like women don't like men who take too much care of their beauty. Because that feels, that puts off the-
14:37 Speaker 03 It's very enlightenment. The enlightenment, as we saw in the last episode, is where people have to try and-
14:41 Speaker 02 Georgian, Regency.
14:42 Speaker 03 Look attractive, well, not quite Regency, this is a bit afterwards, where they're trying to look as natural as possible. Like I haven't tried to do anything.
14:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, no makeup, makeup, yeah.
14:51 Speaker 02 Because I guess it's not very masculine or sexy, the idea that you're spending ages.
14:56 Speaker 03 No, it's not.
14:56 Speaker 02 Manicuring yourself, it should just exude out, you shouldn't be trying to attract women. They should find you attractive because you're chopping wood.
15:02 Speaker 03 But as we'll see, this does, this starts in the Victorian period.
15:05 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:05 Speaker 03 That, that actually starts in the Victorian period.
15:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, because there's those periods where men wear, wear way more makeup than women.
15:12 Speaker 03 Yes, and it's straight to wear makeup.
15:14 Speaker 04 I would say probably the most, I would say most women out of, if you're fancying men, you probably would fancy a guy who's like- Chopping wood, building bricks.
15:24 Speaker 03 Practical muscles.
15:25 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:26 Speaker 03 I once got a blowjob after changing the tyre on a hire car. Mad.
15:31 Speaker 02 From the mechanic?
15:32 Speaker 04 From the, from the exhaust pipe.
15:34 Speaker 03 Not from the exhaust pipe.
15:35 Speaker 04 He fucked the car.
15:36 Speaker 03 I didn't fuck the car.
15:37 Speaker 04 He fucked the car.
15:40 Speaker 03 My partner at the time was so taken with the practical.
15:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
15:44 Speaker 03 That I'd exuded.
15:44 Speaker 04 Look at me, I'm on the edge of my seat, I'm desperate to go there.
15:47 Speaker 03 Absolutely, yeah. But it's, and, and, you know, I didn't have to call my dad.
15:50 Speaker 04 Yeah.
15:51 Speaker 03 You know, which would have, which would have made her fuck my dad.
15:53 Speaker 02 Didn't you call your dad during the blowjob though?
15:55 Speaker 03 I'm gonna check this out.
15:59 Speaker 04 So what, what used?
16:01 Speaker 02 Help, help.
16:03 Speaker 03 Can you come beat me up? I don't like this.
16:06 Speaker 03 But it's about, you know, competency is a hu- that's why the manosphere lot, they're not, they're not even thinking about what women find attractive.
16:14 Speaker 04 No, no, no, no.
16:14 Speaker 03 Because it's not about that. It's about using women to impress men, to give them money.
16:18 Speaker 02 Status symbol, it's the same, it's the same as the Lamborghini, they're the same thing.
16:23 Speaker 04 Sometimes even just making a decision, I would say, if I was on a date with a guy and he's just made a decision and booked the place, I'm like, well, where's the ring?
16:30 Speaker 02 Yeah.
16:31 Speaker 04 I'm.
16:32 Speaker 03 Where's a barrel, bend me over. Not to put words in your mouth.
16:36 Speaker 04 You got what I was getting at.
16:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, I read between the lines. Um, anyway.
16:41 Speaker 02 Call Waito, can we get a barrel in here?
16:44 Speaker 02 I need to be bent over.
16:46 Speaker 04 Barrel and a ring? Barrel and a ring?
16:47 Speaker 03 Barrel and a ring, yeah.
16:48 Speaker 02 Oh yeah, I booked a jazz bar for after. Uh, yeah, a barrel, a barrel please for the road.
16:53 Speaker 03 You get down on one knee, up and over the barrel and we'll just get it done. Right.
16:58 Speaker 03 Right, we begin now, we'd started the last episode with prehistoric standards. There's no real record of male beauty standards because it was, I suppose it was an irrelevance.
17:06 Speaker 04 Like caveman type thing?
17:07 Speaker 03 Yes. But I guess in this, we can infer that if, if the ideal woman was sort of just boobs and a big waist because she was fertile, the ideal man would be, I suppose.
17:17 Speaker 04 Cock and balls.
17:18 Speaker 03 Cock and balls, big cock and balls, ripped.
17:20 Speaker 04 Maybe nice arms.
17:21 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:21 Speaker 03 Maybe nice arms.
17:22 Speaker 02 He's basically on a pogo stick, which is his massive knob that he's bouncing on. That's basically the ideal man.
17:26 Speaker 04 God, that's a nice image. Can we get AI on that?
17:29 Speaker 03 So in ancient Egypt, this was broad shoulders and tiny waists. So this is where men.
17:36 Speaker 02 Triangle.
17:36 Speaker 03 Yeah, men needed to have tiny waists in this time.
17:39 Speaker 04 But is that cause?
17:40 Speaker 03 Which I'd say is unattainable, really.
17:41 Speaker 02 Get Johnny Bravo up, sorry. So is this, this is kind of a male beauty standard.
17:45 Speaker 04 Dorito man, like a Dorito figure.
17:47 Speaker 03 And they'd also wear, they'd wear fake beards. Yes, Johnny Bravo is.
17:50 Speaker 02 The sort of ultimate triangle.
17:53 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:53 Speaker 04 That's your reference point for Egyptian history.
17:55 Speaker 02 Yeah.
17:57 Speaker 03 They'd also wear fake.
17:58 Speaker 02 Look, he's got Johnny Bravo's hair.
18:00 Speaker 04 Yeah. But is it just because, is it not just because they were drawing them on a wall? So they just kind of had to have a body that was easy to draw.
18:06 Speaker 03 You're right, we can only really infer what we see on a wall.
18:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, and they might not have had that.
18:10 Speaker 02 They could be bad drawers.
18:12 Speaker 04 Yeah, they could have been bad. They could have had all sorts of body shapes and sizes. But there's just one guy who could only draw lines.
18:17 Speaker 03 But then he is responsible for setting the standard, isn't he?
18:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
18:20 Speaker 02 The man who draws the lines has the standards.
18:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
18:22 Speaker 04 And that's where the phrase comes from.
18:23 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's the rule of history.
18:25 Speaker 03 The phrase you've just said.
18:27 Speaker 03 The man who draws the lines has the standards.
18:28 Speaker 04 That's where that comes from, because you just said it.
18:31 Speaker 03 So, and the kings would have fake beards. So they'd shave their beards and then wear a really long, thin, phallic like beard.
18:37 Speaker 04 That beard is nasty.
18:39 Speaker 02 Don't like that.
18:40 Speaker 04 I don't like that at all.
18:41 Speaker 02 The end is pretty nasty.
18:42 Speaker 03 Is that doing anything for you?
18:43 Speaker 04 It's doing the opposite.
18:44 Speaker 03 Right.
18:45 Speaker 04 Things are closing over.
18:46 Speaker 03 I see, yeah.
18:47 Speaker 04 Things are webbing over down there.
18:48 Speaker 02 I mean, if you have erectile dysfunction, you can just use your.
18:53 Speaker 02 Fucking chin the fanny.
18:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:55 Speaker 02 Sorry, who was saying, Annie?
18:56 Speaker 04 No, no, no, no, no.
18:58 Speaker 03 Chin the fanny, sorry, Annie, go on.
19:01 Speaker 04 Finish that thought, because I think there was more to it. But that's not going to be hard, is.
19:05 Speaker 02 I think it might be. I think it's quite, because you wouldn't be able to get that naturally to have the curve at the end. You know, you'd have to be probably wrapped tight with oils.
19:13 Speaker 03 I, yeah, I don't think a beard should come out past the nose. I think that's a bit weird.
19:19 Speaker 04 Let the nose be the front and centre of the face.
19:21 Speaker 02 It's a different time.
19:22 Speaker 03 This is a different time.
19:24 Speaker 03 But again, it's quite an androgynous phase.
19:27 Speaker 02 They're working it all out, though.
19:28 Speaker 03 They are, I suppose.
19:29 Speaker 02 They're not the first people to try and work this shit out.
19:31 Speaker 03 But as we said, the pendulum sort of swings between two poles and it speeds up. We get to ancient Greece and this is where male beauty standards really start.
19:40 Speaker 02 Because it's like, women are irrelevant.
19:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
19:42 Speaker 02 Old men are fucking young boys. And it's all about, like, all of the statues of men are so much more dramatic than the statues of women. Women, it's just kind of like quite soft bodies, but the men are like really strong.
19:54 Speaker 04 And naked.
19:54 Speaker 03 Yes, and this is where tiny cocks.
19:57 Speaker 04 Yeah.
19:57 Speaker 02 Which we talked about a lot this podcast.
19:59 Speaker 03 Well, yeah, you won't stop bringing it up. Tiny cocks are seen as a prized possession.
20:06 Speaker 02 Well, something we talked about is that small cocks are old money, they're classy.
20:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:10 Speaker 02 Right, they're tasteful.
20:11 Speaker 04 Okay.
20:12 Speaker 02 A big knob is vulgar.
20:13 Speaker 03 Money talks, wealth whispers.
20:14 Speaker 02 Yes, I do believe that there is, there is just a silent sort of like, it's the old money aesthetic.
20:21 Speaker 04 Right.
20:22 Speaker 02 Of a small knob, it's a.
20:23 Speaker 03 Rolex v Omega, you know?
20:25 Speaker 02 Yes, but it's been, it hasn't been handed down for many generations.
20:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:28 Speaker 02 You can't just buy your way into class, you can't just get, smash your big knob and, you know, get through the door. Do you know what I mean? Wouldn't you agree?
20:35 Speaker 04 I don't know if I'm agreeing with this. I don't know, but it's interesting.
20:38 Speaker 03 Where are your parents from?
20:39 Speaker 04 Half Italian, half Polish.
20:41 Speaker 03 Oh, there you go.
20:42 Speaker 02 Yep.
20:45 Speaker 03 Your new money.
20:46 Speaker 02 Yeah.
20:46 Speaker 04 Who, me?
20:47 Speaker 03 Yes.
20:47 Speaker 04 Oh, okay.
20:48 Speaker 03 Coming from an immigrant background.
20:49 Speaker 04 So, but how's that, and that's related to?
20:51 Speaker 02 New money, that's why you're going after a massive knob.
20:54 Speaker 03 You've got big flashy cocks.
20:55 Speaker 02 Yeah, you're like a big fast car, big knob.
20:57 Speaker 03 Exactly.
20:57 Speaker 02 It's not tasteful.
20:58 Speaker 04 I should have known, I should have known that was where this was going.
21:01 Speaker 03 Old money.
21:01 Speaker 04 Old money.
21:02 Speaker 02 I mean, look at that, that's vulgar, look at that.
21:04 Speaker 03 Crass.
21:04 Speaker 04 Well, that's too big.
21:06 Speaker 03 Thank you.
21:06 Speaker 04 And also they've got like different heads to a human.
21:09 Speaker 02 Forget about the heads.
21:10 Speaker 03 Yeah, so the Greeks would think that a large penis was synonymous with barbarism, foolishness and drunkenness.
21:19 Speaker 04 This is philosophers. So now here's, what do you, what do you think about this as a theory, which I'm figuring out?
21:24 Speaker 02 Right.
21:24 Speaker 04 Is it because these guys who have the small cocks, the philosophers, the thinkers?
21:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:30 Speaker 04 Are they thinkers because they're not getting as, they're not having as good sex because those cocks are small? So all they've got to do is think.
21:35 Speaker 02 Partly, why do we relate glasses to intelligence? It's because the guys with glasses aren't, aren't doing sport.
21:43 Speaker 03 There we go.
21:43 Speaker 02 I got glasses late, all right, but in general, that's where the stereotype comes from, right? The nerd of the glasses, because they're not playing sport, they're studying, they're reading books. It's the same with the small knob, right?
21:55 Speaker 04 It was Plato who said, "It is in."
21:59 Speaker 04 It is in, actually.
21:59 Speaker 02 To a young boy, sadly.
22:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:01 Speaker 04 Well, I just think, yeah, I don't know. It feels like, is it, is it, which one came? Where's, where's the starting point? Because these guys are clever.
22:08 Speaker 03 But you know what? They're not, it's not actually the philosophers. Because this is, the small cock is at the bottom of a completely ripped six-pack pecks. This is called the Adonis belt, or what would now be called cum gutters. I don't know if you're familiar with that.
22:24 Speaker 04 No, I didn't know, but you said that on the last one, and I thought, what's that?
22:26 Speaker 02 You don't know what cum, did you look it up?
22:28 Speaker 04 Oh, is that what the V is?
22:29 Speaker 03 Yeah, the V.
22:29 Speaker 04 Oh, I know, it is the V.
22:30 Speaker 02 Gutters for cum.
22:31 Speaker 03 Gutters for cum.
22:32 Speaker 04 Who's cum? The guy's cum?
22:33 Speaker 03 Yes.
22:34 Speaker 02 Well, it depends.
22:34 Speaker 04 He's cumming on himself?
22:35 Speaker 03 Yes.
22:36 Speaker 04 He shouldn't be doing that.
22:37 Speaker 03 If he's got cum gutters. I feel like that's the irony, isn't it?
22:39 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, it's get that in.
22:40 Speaker 03 People like me really need cum gutters. Without cum, I'm spilling over my belly.
22:44 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly.
22:44 Speaker 03 It gets stuck in my fucking folds. I've got to wash myself out.
22:48 Speaker 04 You've got cum ravines.
22:50 Speaker 03 Or cum trenches, yeah. But yes, there's gutters for cum to run down. But the problem is-
22:56 Speaker 02 Or is it running down, yeah.
22:57 Speaker 03 Well, there's probably-
22:58 Speaker 02 It's just going straight on your balls.
22:59 Speaker 03 But this is the point. If you're Turkish or that way inclined.
23:03 Speaker 04 Yeah.
23:04 Speaker 02 Turkish inclined.
23:05 Speaker 03 The cum gutters run straight into your thigh brows, which means it's just a complete mess.
23:09 Speaker 04 Or all these words.
23:11 Speaker 03 Thigh brows.
23:11 Speaker 04 Thigh brows.
23:12 Speaker 02 For a hairy, better trainer.
23:14 Speaker 03 You really should be familiar with thigh brows.
23:17 Speaker 04 Oh, see, I think I know, okay, okay, I know what these are, I just didn't know all the terminology.
23:21 Speaker 03 So the cum gutters is actually known as the Adonis belt.
23:23 Speaker 04 Right.
23:24 Speaker 03 So this is what the Greeks, their beauty standard is having, and very, very sculpted. But interestingly, which we said earlier, not overly muscular, because that implies they're neglecting intellectual pursuits and, you know, poetry and all that stuff. Which I think is a trend that still lasts today. When you see the big gym guys.
23:42 Speaker 04 Yeah, you know they're neglecting their poetry.
23:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
23:45 Speaker 04 You're not reading.
23:45 Speaker 02 The personal trainers who are messaging me on Instagram, you know that they're not going to be the greatest thing for everyone.
23:49 Speaker 03 They're not reading Tolstoy, you know. Honestly, the things I'm teaching Tyreek, I mean, he's not overly muscular, but he is a 25-odd.
23:56 Speaker 02 You're teaching each other a lot of stuff, it's quite a symbiotic relationship.
23:58 Speaker 03 We are, we are.
23:59 Speaker 04 This is your personal trainer?
24:00 Speaker 03 Yeah. I recently told him that the reason Los Angeles is called that is because that half America used to be Spanish, and he was like, fucking what?
24:06 Speaker 04 Wow.
24:07 Speaker 02 And what has he taught you?
24:07 Speaker 03 He's helping me get up the stairs. So it's a real, you know, symbiotic relationship. Now, when we get into ancient Rome, I guess it's very similar to Greek. It's, I don't think they value small cocks quite as much as the Greeks.
24:23 Speaker 02 It's a more active culture. It's more about a martial, it's a martial culture, right? So you need a bigger knob now because you're going to try and suppress the ghouls.
24:31 Speaker 04 There's not, there's not much difference in what it is for men. It's like, how muscly are you, I would say? Don't you think it's sort of going from like, like look quite muscly or look a bit less muscly?
24:41 Speaker 03 Well, this is in the ancient world.
24:42 Speaker 04 Yeah.
24:43 Speaker 03 We're, it's going to change quite rapidly.
24:44 Speaker 04 Okay.
24:45 Speaker 02 But it's, male beauty is much more centred than, you could get away with less as an ugly guy back then, it feels. Like ugly guys get away with murder now.
24:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:54 Speaker 02 They didn't have podcasts. Yes.
24:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
24:58 Speaker 02 But I think clavicular, we'll get on to, I guess, is starting to end the kind of, the reign of ugly guys. Because now it's setting standards.
25:05 Speaker 03 Do you think we've been living in an ugly?
25:06 Speaker 02 Well, he's now like importing eating disorders to men.
25:09 Speaker 03 Hmm.
25:10 Speaker 02 Yeah.
25:10 Speaker 03 Well, there's this thing, what was it called? Bigger, bigger, biggerorexia, which sounds made up. I can't believe that's actually called, the biggerorexia is a part of the Adonis complex.
25:19 Speaker 04 Right.
25:19 Speaker 03 Which is where a man would become pathologically obsessed with an unattainable physique.
25:23 Speaker 02 Oh, getting tiny, getting like Ariana Grande.
25:25 Speaker 04 Getting big.
25:26 Speaker 03 They'd say they're too small, so they want to get big. But biggerorexia sounds made up.
25:30 Speaker 04 They love to stick rexia onto the end of any word, don't they?
25:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, it makes you seem a lot more dramatic.
25:34 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:34 Speaker 03 I want to get into the medieval, the dark ages, because this is where the modern kind of grunge really begins.
25:42 Speaker 02 Okay.
25:42 Speaker 03 It's similar to with women where, you know, vanity is seen as a sin.
25:46 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:46 Speaker 03 So you've got to look as fucking ugly as possible.
25:49 Speaker 04 Yeah.
25:49 Speaker 02 Because you should be thinking about God, you shouldn't be thinking about yourself.
25:51 Speaker 03 So there's a guy called Saint Simeon Stelites or something like that.
25:56 Speaker 02 Good guy.
25:57 Speaker 03 Who was a saint, who, one of these guys who never washed.
26:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, there he is.
26:00 Speaker 03 Because dirtiness symbolises purity. He lived above a small platform for 37 years, neglecting his body to focus entirely on his soul. He would bound his waist with palm leaves that then rotted into his flesh. His wounds then became infested with maggots and he replaced any that fell off with new ones.
26:18 Speaker 02 Well, I don't think people are going, that man's incredibly soulful. What does a soul mean at that point?
26:24 Speaker 03 But Annie's looking at him going, I can fix him.
26:26 Speaker 04 I'm looking at him going, get me a top that platform. Move up.
26:30 Speaker 03 A barrel please. A barrel please, one that can fit in that platform.
26:33 Speaker 02 You want to be one of his maggots.
26:35 Speaker 04 Well, don't you think, he bound, I just think, I hear that and I go, well, this is before kink. This is, he's bounding himself. This is a guy who's into shavari, but he didn't have, didn't have.
26:44 Speaker 03 They didn't have maggot play.
26:45 Speaker 04 They didn't have maggot play back then. So he was struggling.
26:48 Speaker 03 I mean, I imagine you're probably the closest thing to a kink correspondent we'd ever have on the show.
26:52 Speaker 04 Yeah.
26:52 Speaker 03 Is maggot play a thing?
26:53 Speaker 04 Straight down the barrel of the camera. Yes.
26:55 Speaker 03 Yes.
26:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
26:56 Speaker 03 Disgusting.
26:57 Speaker 04 I think it can be.
26:57 Speaker 02 We actually brought this on the show before, I think.
27:00 Speaker 03 Have we, have we?
27:00 Speaker 02 I thought we had. We've got former philophilia. Formo.
27:04 Speaker 03 I've got, I've got formo fomo.
27:06 Speaker 04 This type of guy, Saint Simeon Stylites, this is my type of guy.
27:11 Speaker 03 That's what I was saying.
27:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure.
27:12 Speaker 02 Before?
27:12 Speaker 04 Before, like in my before period, this is the type of guy I go for. I had a boyfriend.
27:16 Speaker 02 Wasting away on a platform.
27:18 Speaker 03 Skinny emo.
27:20 Speaker 04 Emo.
27:21 Speaker 03 Because he's thinking all the time.
27:22 Speaker 04 Well, I had a boyfriend who told me that he was like, you don't actually need to brush your teeth because they're self cleaning.
27:28 Speaker 03 And you found that attractive?
27:29 Speaker 04 That was.
27:30 Speaker 02 He's a thinker?
27:31 Speaker 04 Yeah. He was like, well, because we've invented toothpaste, but like before we had toothpaste, they would have just self cleaned.
27:38 Speaker 03 So he's trying, he's trying to talk himself out of bad breath, basically.
27:41 Speaker 02 Yeah.
27:41 Speaker 03 So yeah, basically you had to look as much of a munter as possible.
27:44 Speaker 04 But why is that? Why do they think God wants everyone to be munter?
27:48 Speaker 03 Well, it's because to.
27:50 Speaker 02 It's all about distractions.
27:51 Speaker 03 It's vanity is a sin.
27:52 Speaker 04 Right.
27:52 Speaker 03 One of the, one of the sins.
27:53 Speaker 04 But God might want everyone to be sort of eights and above.
27:56 Speaker 03 But then.
27:57 Speaker 02 He could be quite an insecure guy though.
27:58 Speaker 04 Oh, well, he wants to be the hottest.
28:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think so. I think there's a level that everyone's hotter than him.
28:03 Speaker 03 Theologians would argue that altering the body insults what God's created.
28:06 Speaker 02 That's a big thing.
28:07 Speaker 03 As a creationist.
28:08 Speaker 04 Oh, I see.
28:08 Speaker 03 So this is where it's the kind of stinky ages, apart from in the Islamic Golden Age, which is where grooming is very important, as is perfumes.
28:17 Speaker 04 Yep. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
28:18 Speaker 03 But then it's interesting, again, to my point earlier. The male sense, is that something that men are doing because it confirms their masculinity?
28:25 Speaker 02 One thing to go against the theory, though, that men are trying to impress other men is I think if you could do it into four sections of like lesbians, gay guys, straight men, straight women, you're all trying to attract different people.
28:37 Speaker 04 Completely erased.
28:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:38 Speaker 04 I believe that's called bi-erasure.
28:40 Speaker 02 You're greedily spreading across two, right? But there's still four segments, but just because you've got long legs doesn't mean you're not still on the graph. It's about who you're trying to attract, right? jean shorts, you're trying to attract both at the same time.
28:53 Speaker 04 Yeah.
28:55 Speaker 04 Little bit of leg for the fellas, little bit of mystery for the ladies.
28:58 Speaker 03 Little bit of denim for the ladies.
28:58 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, a little bit of denim.
28:59 Speaker 02 Gay guy, if you go to, if you go to gay guys who are trying to attract other men, then it's very different to straight guys.
29:05 Speaker 03 Totally.
29:06 Speaker 02 So like, it's, when it's for other men, then it becomes quite feminine, actually.
29:11 Speaker 03 Hmm.
29:12 Speaker 04 No, but then there are like bears and like daddies.
29:15 Speaker 02 But there's a, there's a, there's still a.
29:16 Speaker 04 Do you think there's still a femininity?
29:18 Speaker 02 There's still a femininity underneath it and it's a little bit, you're performing straight masculinity in quite a draggy gay way.
29:25 Speaker 04 Sure, sure, sure. Straight men aren't perform, I guess some of them are, but yeah.
29:28 Speaker 02 Like the lumberjack straight man, if you do it gay, it's still like, maybe it's tucked in.
29:33 Speaker 03 And the shirts are tighter around the muscles and stuff.
29:35 Speaker 04 Yeah, all the muscles are bigger.
29:37 Speaker 02 Then you look, and then the one.
29:39 Speaker 03 Not possible, not possible.
29:40 Speaker 02 I've talked a lot about how I want more lesbian representation, representation on TV because I don't understand what's going on there. Gay guys, I've, no, gay guys, I've seen a lot of films about it, I kind of get it, the rules make sense. Lesbians, I don't, the rules don't really make sense to me. It's not really clear what's going on.
29:58 Speaker 03 That's because there's two negative poles on magnets meeting.
30:00 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's kind of like, so I'll see lesbian couples and I'm still trying to work out what the, what the rules of the game are.
30:08 Speaker 04 Yeah.
30:08 Speaker 02 It's less about the way you present yourself, maybe.
30:12 Speaker 04 I think so, but I think you can also have lesbian couples that kind of still fall into like a slightly more masculine one, slightly more feminine one.
30:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, definitely. I see that and that kind of makes sense.
30:20 Speaker 04 But then you also have the other, you have all the variations.
30:22 Speaker 03 There's a very wholesome type of lesbian couple.
30:24 Speaker 02 Trail mix.
30:25 Speaker 03 Yes, trail mix, sensible shoes, long walks.
30:28 Speaker 04 Yeah.
30:28 Speaker 03 Where from the straight male perspective, you go, what's going on? Because straight men are just doing the long walk in order to bend them over a barrel. So you're going, where's the barrel in all this?
30:37 Speaker 02 Yeah.
30:38 Speaker 03 Right? Because from our dirty perspective, we can't see that with a lesbian couple. With gay men, we go, well, yeah, that's just, you're just two of me.
30:46 Speaker 04 You're just two fucking.
30:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
30:47 Speaker 04 Oh, I see where is that you're thinking with two lesbians, you're thinking, well, they're both listening. So who's talking?
30:53 Speaker 02 Yes.
30:54 Speaker 03 Exactly.
30:55 Speaker 04 It's just a void of listening. It's an empathy void.
30:58 Speaker 02 What's the point of having big ears if no one has a mouth?
31:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:03 Speaker 04 They've got empathy gutters running down their bodies.
31:05 Speaker 03 There you go, empathy gutters. It's like two Mr. Potato Heads with big ears on.
31:09 Speaker 02 Our research has just got lesbian cultures.
31:11 Speaker 03 You brought that up quickly, Phoebe.
31:13 Speaker 02 On one end, you've got lipstick and you've got high heels. On the other end, you've got butch, which is like a sort of racist policeman's haircut. But in the middle, you've got jean shorts, which you're literally wearing. So you're rich, stem chapsticks.
31:26 Speaker 04 Stem chapsticks?
31:27 Speaker 02 That's interesting.
31:27 Speaker 03 So that would be science, technology, engineering, because that's what that kind of stem is? Is that what that means?
31:31 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:31 Speaker 03 Right.
31:32 Speaker 02 But what does it represent about, I guess, gay male relationships? It's very like transient and quick, that they're sleeping with lots of people stereotypically. Grinder, you meet someone who's, it's, sex is very regular with many different partners.
31:46 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
31:46 Speaker 02 Lesbians, correct if I'm wrong, you meet another lesbian and then you cycle through relationships faster than anyone.
31:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
31:53 Speaker 02 So what's that? Is it because you talk so, you're, you're both talking so much, you get, you get through all the emotional beats quicker?
32:01 Speaker 04 Yeah, I haven't ever actually fully done that.
32:04 Speaker 02 Right.
32:05 Speaker 04 But I've had, I guess in the beginning, in the first week, it can go a lot like, you're like, oh, wow, we're really getting into this trauma stuff. But then if, I think even with all these stereotypes, like then you have to add in the mix of whatever your personal baggage is. And I have the personal baggage of a straight man. So that's slowing me down.
32:21 Speaker 02 Oh, interesting.
32:22 Speaker 04 I think.
32:22 Speaker 02 So that makes you maybe read more lesbian, even though maybe you're less lesbian in your preferences.
32:27 Speaker 04 I don't know.
32:27 Speaker 02 Because you've got the straight man bag baggage.
32:29 Speaker 04 Really getting into it. I just mean like, I had commitment issues.
32:32 Speaker 02 Right. Also, what I've heard is that the lesbian breakup is the worst breakup of all. That's apparently.
32:37 Speaker 04 But then lots of lesbians are friends with their exes.
32:40 Speaker 02 Inched, well, from what I've heard is that like, when it breaks down, that's like the most.
32:44 Speaker 03 Well, the gay man is the best exit, isn't it?
32:47 Speaker 02 Yeah.
32:47 Speaker 03 Straight rebound immediately. Just go to the next services, bang, done.
32:54 Speaker 04 You're getting a blowjob thanks to your car.
32:56 Speaker 03 Exactly.
32:56 Speaker 04 High five, man.
32:57 Speaker 02 You're both fighting over fixing the wheel and fucking each other up, it's perfect. 69-ing.
33:01 Speaker 03 69-ing underneath the car.
33:04 Speaker 06 With guys admitting they're bisexual, there's like internalised homophobia.
33:08 Speaker 04 Yes.
33:09 Speaker 06 Do you think that that exists with women? Or do you think it's just a guy?
33:11 Speaker 04 I think it's-
33:12 Speaker 06 Is it easier for women to be like, "I'll kiss a girl"?
33:15 Speaker 04 I think there's a bit of like, um, it's not real. There's a bit of biphobia, like, as in like, oh, everyone kisses, everyone, all girls kiss girls.
33:25 Speaker 02 Girls are beautiful.
33:26 Speaker 03 I kissed a girl, I liked it. There's no male equivalent. I sucked, I sucked, I liked it.
33:32 Speaker 02 I'm not gay.
33:33 Speaker 04 I had my first-
33:34 Speaker 03 I'm not gay though.
33:35 Speaker 04 My first boyfriend was like, "I'm gonna give a guy a blowjob to check that I'm not into this", which I actually really respected.
33:42 Speaker 03 But again, that's quite a straight thing to do. "I'm just gonna check this."
33:45 Speaker 02 Check what's going on down there.
33:47 Speaker 03 "I'm not gonna talk or maybe explore this. I'm just gonna go, ah, ah, ah."
33:49 Speaker 02 It's like your dad saying, "Yeah, you need to fit right there."
33:52 Speaker 03 Just tapping walls.
33:53 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
33:54 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's plywood, that's cheap shit.
33:55 Speaker 03 You could knock through that, I reckon. I don't want to though.
33:59 Speaker 02 But you could.
34:00 Speaker 03 I could. I could blow that back out, but I don't want to. I don't want to.
34:04 Speaker 02 Maybe you should get a guy in to blow it out, but I guess it would save money if I just do it.
34:07 Speaker 03 Did he end up, did he end up becoming bi?
34:09 Speaker 04 No, he's, he's, he's, not that I know of. I think he's married.
35:13 Speaker 02 Now at Lowe's, faster quotes start at the Lowe's Pro Desk. Got a material list handwritten on a sticky note or saved as a photo? Perfect. Bring it to us and get a quote in minutes. And if you don't see what you need on the shelf, we'll help you get it. You can access thousands of products beyond what's available in store or on Lowe's.com right from the Lowe's Pro Desk. Build quotes faster and source the materials you need to keep your jobs moving, just like that, at Lowe's.
35:41 Speaker 03 Anyway, we're now into the Renaissance.
35:44 Speaker 02 Right.
35:45 Speaker 03 Okay. Where the classical body is rediscovered and this is where we get the Vitruvian Man. So again, it's all about symmetry at this point.
35:51 Speaker 02 Vitruvian Man is that?
35:52 Speaker 04 This fellow.
35:53 Speaker 02 Jesus doing star jobs.
35:55 Speaker 04 No, that's my type.
35:56 Speaker 03 Now, yes. So he has sort of, it's less ripped than the Greek, but it's all about proportionality. And this is where they start saying that the perfect male body should be like, is it five heads?
36:08 Speaker 04 Yeah.
36:09 Speaker 03 Five heads tall and then five heads wide, something like that. So the total height is eight heads, torso, foreheads, legs, foreheads, armspan.
36:17 Speaker 02 How big are these heads though? These Irish heads?
36:19 Speaker 03 Whatever head.
36:20 Speaker 04 Your own head in your own body.
36:22 Speaker 02 Right, right, right.
36:23 Speaker 03 Which is why the Irish look so funny. Now, there is, no, listen, there is a specific, no, come on.
36:29 Speaker 02 No, he's on, he's on real guard action now.
36:30 Speaker 03 Just to be sincere for a minute.
36:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, we get serious.
36:33 Speaker 03 There is a, you can spot someone who's Irish from behind.
36:35 Speaker 04 Go on.
36:36 Speaker 03 Because the shape of their head is particular. The Irish head's a phenomenon that they would admit themselves. All right? It's as distinct as butter.
36:45 Speaker 04 I can't think of it.
36:46 Speaker 02 Have you been to Stonehenge?
36:48 Speaker 04 No.
36:49 Speaker 02 Well, that's what a crowd of Irish people look like from the back.
36:54 Speaker 03 Dublin is also there. Yeah.
36:58 Speaker 04 I was thinking Stonehenge, not an island.
37:02 Speaker 03 Very big heads.
37:03 Speaker 04 More fool me.
37:04 Speaker 03 Very big heads, but they've also got so much face.
37:05 Speaker 04 So I'm literally, unfortunately, my only reference point right now is Paul Mescal.
37:10 Speaker 03 Irish head, big Irish head.
37:13 Speaker 02 Anyways, this is good opportunity to phonologize, Anya.
37:16 Speaker 03 Oh, it's true, actually.
37:16 Speaker 02 So we just started this thing. So it's like, we're trying to do a Top Gear leaderboard of, it's sort of like, what would you say, racial science from the 1900s?
37:24 Speaker 03 Yep.
37:24 Speaker 02 That has been discredited, but you're trying to re-credit?
37:28 Speaker 03 Well, there's a lot of truth in some of the stories.
37:29 Speaker 02 So we're going to measure your skull and we're going to rank, we're going to find out what your IQ is.
37:34 Speaker 04 Perfect.
37:34 Speaker 02 So there's two measurements, Anya.
37:36 Speaker 04 Mm-hmm.
37:37 Speaker 02 The length of your forehead, how many fingers that is, is your intellectual capacity.
37:41 Speaker 04 Is it my fingers?
37:42 Speaker 03 Yes, yes.
37:43 Speaker 02 Yes, yeah. So you've got four fingers.
37:46 Speaker 04 I've got, and a thumb.
37:47 Speaker 02 Pad.
37:47 Speaker 03 That's good.
37:49 Speaker 02 Sneaking that in, I think you're being greedy there.
37:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, there's a bit of room there.
37:53 Speaker 02 Do you think so? Four and a half?
37:54 Speaker 03 Do you want to measure the?
37:55 Speaker 02 So Paddy got three.
37:56 Speaker 04 Four and a half.
37:56 Speaker 02 So it shows that you are more of a thinker than Paddy. Paddy's a bit of a himbo.
38:00 Speaker 03 So hang on, so Rachel hasn't got his mic, so he's now measuring the width of your head. And it's the proportion.
38:05 Speaker 04 Getting there a bit more, yeah.
38:06 Speaker 03 It's the proportion. It's tricky that, because it's, it's close to that big whisk that women use to rank themselves off.
38:13 Speaker 04 Can you do it again? Can I have it?
38:14 Speaker 02 Maybe I'll have this off.
38:15 Speaker 04 Okay.
38:16 Speaker 02 So seven inches, same as Paddy. So you, you actually have the same animal.
38:20 Speaker 04 Are you sure?
38:21 Speaker 02 You've got the same.
38:22 Speaker 03 Depth of head.
38:23 Speaker 02 He's got a tiny head.
38:24 Speaker 04 Depth of head, okay.
38:24 Speaker 03 But a bigger forehead, which means you're, you're more mental balance.
38:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:29 Speaker 03 Your, your, you know, your lizard brain and your thinking brain are more in sync.
38:33 Speaker 04 Yeah.
38:33 Speaker 03 And you're a more cerebral person.
38:34 Speaker 02 So right, that's our first two.
38:37 Speaker 03 And we're just plotting, we're plotting a graph.
38:39 Speaker 02 Paddy and Anya, both seven inches, head to back.
38:43 Speaker 04 Have you done anyone else?
38:45 Speaker 02 No, this is the beginning.
38:45 Speaker 04 We're the beginning.
38:46 Speaker 03 It's been a long running.
38:47 Speaker 04 Have you done yourselves?
38:48 Speaker 03 A true phonologist never turns the calipers on himself.
38:50 Speaker 02 Never turn the calipers on yourself.
38:52 Speaker 03 So you have the Renaissance, where they rediscover the classic form. And then you have this 17th, 18th century Baroque ideal.
38:59 Speaker 04 Who the fuck is this guy?
38:59 Speaker 03 Where essentially, white guys are black women. They wear wigs.
39:04 Speaker 02 Yes.
39:05 Speaker 03 You know, they shave their heads and they wear these extravagant wigs. It's all about not being tanned, so they will wear powder to symbolize the fact that they don't work in the fields.
39:15 Speaker 04 Right.
39:16 Speaker 03 And that they, they spend their time indoors, because tans is like a worker's. So that means you're poor and this is all about being as like sheltered as possible from any kind of hard work.
39:26 Speaker 04 Yeah.
39:27 Speaker 03 So.
39:27 Speaker 02 This could be the least I could relate to a male attractiveness.
39:30 Speaker 03 Yes.
39:31 Speaker 02 I think a white pointy wig is as far from what I can see.
39:35 Speaker 03 And white face and just powdered.
39:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't know. Some of these guys must have had amazing, amazing riz because I think that is actually like, do you think it's maybe part of this? Like sometimes I think with fashion, it's like, like with like Harry Styles or like David Bowie. It's like, I'm going to wear something fucking insane to prove how strong my sexuality is. And to be like, if I'm looking insane and you still find me hot, like what does that say about me?
39:59 Speaker 02 Why a very attractive woman can shave their head.
40:01 Speaker 04 Yes, exactly.
40:02 Speaker 02 And it's like, I'm still sexy nonetheless. That's the ultimate flex.
40:06 Speaker 04 Totally.
40:07 Speaker 03 But this is all men. This is not like a Harry Styles.
40:09 Speaker 02 Not all men.
40:09 Speaker 03 This is not all men wore wigs. But this is not like, it's not Harry Styles in a world of gym bros going, I'm wearing colots. Fuck you dad or whatever. This is, this is the standard. The standard is to wear wigs. So you would have blokey blokes in powdered face and big wigs because I presume they still acted like men.
40:29 Speaker 04 Well, yeah, that's, that's what I guess that would be interesting.
40:31 Speaker 02 In high heels. Yeah.
40:33 Speaker 03 Always.
40:36 Speaker 03 Come on, wipe it down there, love. And they've got a powdered face on and they're massive. Do you want me to park it for you? And they've got a fucking wig on. I mean.
40:42 Speaker 02 Slow clapping, a woman trying to park a carriage.
40:44 Speaker 03 You know, the Baroque builder with powdered face and a wig.
40:49 Speaker 02 Come on, let's get out of here. It's a bunch of puss and they'll clap away.
40:55 Speaker 03 So this is all, the French revolution saw the grande renunciation masculine, the great male renunciation. So they're rejecting ostentatious court fashion.
41:05 Speaker 02 Yes, makes sense.
41:06 Speaker 04 Didn't last very long.
41:07 Speaker 03 Well, it's kind of the 18th century is the sort of, that's the Baroque period, right? So you then get into Victorian masculinity, which is much more recognizable to us.
41:16 Speaker 02 The Victorian strong man.
41:18 Speaker 03 Yes, this is where.
41:19 Speaker 02 Muscular with a moustache.
41:20 Speaker 03 Because of the industrial revolution, because the industrial revolution, it becomes much more tied to work. So you get work wear.
41:26 Speaker 04 Yeah.
41:26 Speaker 03 So.
41:27 Speaker 02 Carhartt.
41:27 Speaker 04 Carhartt, yeah.
41:28 Speaker 03 And beards, beards become massive.
41:30 Speaker 04 But beards were already in, in Egypt.
41:34 Speaker 02 Well, yeah, 3000 years earlier.
41:36 Speaker 04 Beards are just in and out.
41:37 Speaker 03 Beards come and go.
41:38 Speaker 02 In the Victorian age, the beard represents more than sexuality, it's wisdom.
41:43 Speaker 04 Right.
41:43 Speaker 02 The length of your beard shows how smart you are.
41:46 Speaker 03 They also, but yes, ironically, they thought that the beard would stop, um, would stop bad, like particles getting in your mouth.
41:52 Speaker 02 But then it became so disease ridden.
41:54 Speaker 04 You have a beard?
41:54 Speaker 03 Yes, I have a beard.
41:55 Speaker 04 Why?
41:55 Speaker 03 And my, my, my toxic trait is that I get food in my beard almost every time I eat.
41:58 Speaker 04 But did you, did you choose it as a fashion choice or was it like, this is?
42:01 Speaker 03 If I'm eating Greek yogurt and my wife sees me, then when there's yogurt in my beard, then, then there's, there's none of that happening tonight.
42:07 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah.
42:08 Speaker 03 But there was a point where I had, I can grow fantastic, um, yeah, well, that's, that's a filter. That was a filter. Go on the moustache. I can grow a sedan moustache.
42:18 Speaker 04 Wow.
42:18 Speaker 03 And I would like to get enough body fat down that I can have a chin that can come out.
42:23 Speaker 02 A right wing haircut at the time. So it's trying to, you need to balance it out.
42:26 Speaker 03 Exactly. I think big moustache, long hair.
42:29 Speaker 02 Cause yeah.
42:30 Speaker 03 But I, yeah, I've basically had a beard since I was 17. I said, uh, yeah, 18, 19.
42:34 Speaker 04 And how do you feel, if you, if someone were to shave it, would you feel very, very exposed?
42:38 Speaker 03 Yeah, I'd feel, I'd feel exposed.
42:40 Speaker 02 Weak.
42:41 Speaker 03 Weak.
42:41 Speaker 02 Cowering.
42:42 Speaker 04 You've got something else, moustache or something?
42:44 Speaker 02 I've got a moustache and a lot of people think it's like a statement or a choice, but I'm playing the face I was dealt. And that's what everyone does with facial hair.
42:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, that's, so that, that's my question is, is it actually about wisdom or is it actually about covering stuff up?
42:57 Speaker 02 You're playing the face you're dealt.
42:58 Speaker 04 So what's going on between your nose and mouth? What are you covering up?
43:00 Speaker 02 I've got a small nose, so I distract from it with a moustache, but I've got all right cheekbones, so I can keep them out. A lot of people with a big beard, they're trying to hide a weak chin over here. So the only reason I'm doing this, people think, I've had a moustache for years. So people just think it's like trying to brand. No, it's just play, you play the face you're dealt.
43:19 Speaker 04 Yeah.
43:19 Speaker 02 Facial hair wise.
43:20 Speaker 03 But at this point, men would despair where their beards is like a statement.
43:23 Speaker 02 Yeah.
43:24 Speaker 03 It was, big beards were better.
43:26 Speaker 02 It was a Taliban era sort of, wasn't it?
43:28 Speaker 03 Yes, totally.
43:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
43:29 Speaker 03 And it was a, you would show off your masculinity by how big a beard you could grow. Also, this is where phrenology comes into it because phrenology was the height of, I mean, this is like Victorian dating apps were phrenology based in that you would want to phrenologise someone.
43:48 Speaker 02 So if someone put a dating ad out in the newspaper, in the Times.
43:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, looking for some woman with a big forehead. Which indicates.
43:55 Speaker 04 Bring that back.
43:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:57 Speaker 04 I'd clear up.
43:57 Speaker 03 Although it's, it's the, the sexual desire is all based in the back of the head supposedly.
44:02 Speaker 02 Your animal fat. Quite a big back of the head.
44:04 Speaker 04 So I need to get that bigger.
44:06 Speaker 02 It was already pretty big.
44:07 Speaker 03 Back of the head, BBL. Put your hair up.
44:09 Speaker 04 BBL for the back of my head.
44:10 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:11 Speaker 02 Brazilian brain lift.
44:13 Speaker 03 Show off the back of you, the base of your skull, show how big that is.
44:16 Speaker 04 Okay, get that out.
44:16 Speaker 03 There's a button there that if someone pushes, you're horny.
44:18 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's all like a codpiece at the back of your head.
44:20 Speaker 03 It's science.
44:20 Speaker 04 Okay, okay, okay.
44:21 Speaker 02 You wouldn't get it, it's science.
44:22 Speaker 03 The amative organ. Okay, yeah. This is what we say we need to get women into STEM.
44:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
44:28 Speaker 03 Yeah, phrenology.
44:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:29 Speaker 03 So the idea that men's brains are larger explained why they're more sexual as beings, because they've got big, bigger heads, larger brains.
44:38 Speaker 03 Phrenologists said that the larger the person's amative faculty, the more attractive they were towards the opposite sex.
44:43 Speaker 02 Interesting.
44:44 Speaker 03 So this is kind of, I guess, trying to explain pheromones.
44:47 Speaker 02 Okay, yeah.
44:47 Speaker 03 Which I suppose is another way of saying this vibe thing.
44:50 Speaker 04 Something, something untethered to anything that's just there.
44:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Unknowable, unexplainable.
44:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
44:56 Speaker 03 However, if the back of the head was too large, the person could be prone to obscenity.
45:00 Speaker 02 What's that mean?
45:00 Speaker 03 I.e. paddy.
45:01 Speaker 02 Yes. What's obscenity mean?
45:03 Speaker 03 Well, it's just sort of like, ugh, horny.
45:06 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
45:06 Speaker 03 Horny little rabbit.
45:07 Speaker 04 Being a big horny.
45:08 Speaker 02 Right, I get it.
45:09 Speaker 04 Actually, it sounds quite nice.
45:10 Speaker 03 Yeah. So, and obviously it's all about practical masculinity, so, you know, this is where the.
45:16 Speaker 02 Roll up your sleeves.
45:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, work wear, look at that, that's Victorian work wear. Into the 20th century.
45:21 Speaker 02 That's quite Protestant, yes.
45:23 Speaker 03 Into the 20th century, and this is where you get the first male sex symbols, first pinups, which is silent film stars.
45:30 Speaker 04 Right.
45:30 Speaker 03 Which is where they kind of, it becomes more about class, cynicism, approachability, while still being a bit rugged.
45:38 Speaker 02 Yeah.
45:39 Speaker 03 You know? So this guy's called Rudolph Valentino.
45:43 Speaker 03 Supposedly women fainted, does look a bit like David Gandy. Supposedly when he died, there was thousands of fans flood the streets and women killed themselves because they're so.
45:52 Speaker 02 Killed themselves.
45:53 Speaker 03 That's what it says.
45:53 Speaker 04 Well, he's kind of like the ultimate man you can project onto because he's silent. So as a woman, it's kind of perfect.
45:59 Speaker 03 You're right.
46:00 Speaker 04 It's like hot guy, never heard him peep a word in his life.
46:03 Speaker 03 But is that not-
46:04 Speaker 04 When he dies, of course I'm gonna kill myself.
46:05 Speaker 03 Is it not a bit icky that he's like miming? Isn't miming a massive turn off?
46:09 Speaker 04 Miming is such an ick.
46:10 Speaker 03 Miming's an ick.
46:10 Speaker 04 Miming is such an ick.
46:11 Speaker 03 Um, I wanna get to the 50s where, you know, much like women had bullet bras and they were, their beauty was tied to their sort of-
46:19 Speaker 02 Domesticity. The white goods revolution.
46:22 Speaker 03 Yes.
46:22 Speaker 02 The bullet tits revolution.
46:24 Speaker 03 Uh, men became, it became very kind of basic masculinity. Denim, leather jacket.
46:30 Speaker 04 Hold on, denim is masculinity now.
46:32 Speaker 02 Well, yes, but that's the part of the performance of the gay man with the denim.
46:36 Speaker 04 Got it, okay.
46:37 Speaker 02 Is you're playing with the performance of masculinity.
46:38 Speaker 03 Not denim cutoffs.
46:39 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:39 Speaker 03 Denim.
46:39 Speaker 02 We don't, we're not cutting the denims off.
46:41 Speaker 04 True denim all the way down.
46:42 Speaker 03 Look, look, you can try, you go, you go denim bootcut, straight.
46:45 Speaker 02 All lesbian.
46:46 Speaker 03 Denim shorts, bisexual. Denim cutoff's gay.
46:48 Speaker 04 Gay.
46:48 Speaker 03 Okay?
46:48 Speaker 04 Yeah.
46:49 Speaker 03 However long your denim is, that's who you're speaking to.
46:51 Speaker 04 This is modern phrenology for the legs.
46:53 Speaker 02 But then also, let's flip that, that's for men. Get your leg out again, just so I can do it.
46:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:57 Speaker 02 Lesbian boot, bootcuts.
46:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
46:59 Speaker 02 Uh, that's lesbian, shorts, bi.
47:01 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:02 Speaker 02 And then denim cutoffs, straight.
47:04 Speaker 04 Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
47:05 Speaker 02 So it works the other way. It's a, it's a science, it does work.
47:07 Speaker 04 You've got, I mean, some of the stuff you say, it's just stopped clocking here.
47:13 Speaker 02 So James Dean is, he was only in three films, but he is seen as such a symbol.
47:18 Speaker 03 Yep.
47:18 Speaker 02 It does, it does feel like it's all, it changes with him. It's not going back to traditional masculinity, it's something new.
47:24 Speaker 03 It's rebellious.
47:25 Speaker 04 Yeah, this is, I think this is new.
47:26 Speaker 02 Yeah, boy, like it's the, the line that Timothy Chalamet's-
47:29 Speaker 03 Not Dean Gaffney, Charlie, no, not Dean Gaffney.
47:31 Speaker 02 But close.
47:32 Speaker 03 We're getting there, we'll get, we'll get to Dean Gaffney shortly.
47:35 Speaker 03 He's definitely the immoder-
47:36 Speaker 04 It's a mix of like-
47:37 Speaker 02 Emotional.
47:38 Speaker 04 It's, a lot of effort is just going into the hair.
47:40 Speaker 03 Hmm.
47:40 Speaker 04 It's almost like, well, we'll concentrate on the hair, that's enough.
47:43 Speaker 03 But I suppose this is, I guess, slightly that he's taking something from the Baroque period.
47:47 Speaker 04 Yeah.
47:48 Speaker 02 Go on.
47:48 Speaker 03 We've been through the Victorian era where it's like, you don't wanna look rugged.
47:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
47:51 Speaker 03 And now, you know, you're spending a bit of time on your hair, actually quite a lot of time. The whole teddy boy jelly roll thing, they had a hairstyle called a duck's ass.
47:58 Speaker 04 Yeah.
47:59 Speaker 03 Which was, where it folds-
48:00 Speaker 02 Which is the perfume that men wore.
48:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, that's, yeah, so that's, um, teddy boy hair.
48:05 Speaker 04 I mean, that's insane.
48:06 Speaker 03 Elvis hair. That must've taken hours.
48:07 Speaker 02 Looks like LaRue.
48:08 Speaker 04 I don't find that, yeah. That's lesbian.
48:11 Speaker 02 Yeah, that is very lesbian.
48:12 Speaker 04 I don't find that at all attractive.
48:13 Speaker 03 That's very primeval, isn't it? That's like a monkey that's got like a sort of fanny on its head.
48:18 Speaker 04 Like a-
48:18 Speaker 03 And male monkeys are like, ooh, you know, that's kind of peacock stuff.
48:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
48:22 Speaker 04 But that, but then if that, if that's wanting to attract a woman. Oh, sorry, he? Yes. That can't be. That's not.
48:30 Speaker 03 He's signing out what he's looking for.
48:32 Speaker 04 Yes. Right, yeah, he's still showing.
48:35 Speaker 03 If you look like this, then I'm all about talking to you.
48:36 Speaker 02 It's like one of the guys in the airport.
48:37 Speaker 03 And then there are guys that have big unicorn horns and he's like, oh, no, no.
48:40 Speaker 02 Tap cab driver with Mr. Johnson holding up instead.
48:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:44 Speaker 03 At an airport, fanny please.
48:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:48 Speaker 02 I guess Alex Turner rocked it.
48:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, Alex Turner's kind of.
48:50 Speaker 04 But Alex Turner's, I would say Alex Turner's doing it in a slightly understated way. Whereas I, and I do think that gap is like a massive difference.
48:56 Speaker 02 Yeah, but you know, it's trial and error. Some people get it wrong, you know? I think, you know, he just didn't land on his feet.
49:01 Speaker 04 He has not landed on his feet and it's maybe upset.
49:02 Speaker 03 And obviously beards go at this point. It's all about smooth, clean shaven, working man, you know? Domestic bliss, all that.
49:09 Speaker 02 Yes.
49:10 Speaker 03 Now, in the 60s, as civil rights enters the kind of culture, the Afro starts to be worn more, obviously by black communities in America, but then it's so popular that by the early 70s, the white Afro comes in, whites are permanent. The Afro whites are permanent in their hair.
49:27 Speaker 02 Charlie, you probably could do a Afro if you pushed it. You've got it in your locker.
49:30 Speaker 06 It naturally is there, but it's like, kind of, it looks like a brush. It's like permy.
49:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:34 Speaker 02 We said it looks like a microphone. Your hair looks like this.
49:37 Speaker 04 Right.
49:37 Speaker 06 It just grows directly upwards rather than that way.
49:40 Speaker 02 Right. But if you, if you flicked it enough, could you not?
49:42 Speaker 06 I'm trying to get it to that point, but I have to wax it until I can actually like properly beef it out.
49:47 Speaker 02 Yeah.
49:48 Speaker 06 I have to wax it.
49:48 Speaker 04 Wait, so you mean it would only grow upwards like a line?
49:51 Speaker 06 It grows directly upwards, like a cartoon.
49:54 Speaker 02 Everything's grown out.
49:55 Speaker 04 Okay.
49:55 Speaker 02 So it's not like Meryl Streep.
49:57 Speaker 06 No, but I want it to be more out, whereas currently it's like, it is like a microphone.
50:02 Speaker 02 Yeah.
50:02 Speaker 03 But then we get to, this is, now this is the standard that I adhere to. I would like, this is where I would like to get to.
50:08 Speaker 04 Okay.
50:08 Speaker 03 Beefcake.
50:09 Speaker 02 Yes. It feels like this is bad.
50:11 Speaker 03 Burt Reynolds. Well, I genuinely, I'm being genuine here. I think this is the masculine ideal for me.
50:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'd agree.
50:17 Speaker 04 Is that like, as in what you want to be or what you would be attracted to?
50:20 Speaker 02 I want to fuck that guy. I want to fuck that guy right now.
50:23 Speaker 03 I want that guy to bend me over a barrel.
50:25 Speaker 04 This is the masculine ideal for me.
50:26 Speaker 03 This is what I would like to look like in an ideal world.
50:28 Speaker 04 Yeah, okay.
50:28 Speaker 03 This is what I'm working towards, where there's a sort of.
50:31 Speaker 04 This is where Tyreek is trying to get you.
50:33 Speaker 03 Tyreek's trying to get me to Burt Reynolds.
50:34 Speaker 02 You're showing pictures of this.
50:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:35 Speaker 02 And Tyreek's going.
50:36 Speaker 03 He's going, what?
50:38 Speaker 02 And then you're paying more money.
50:40 Speaker 03 So it's, uh, it's, this is where chest hair comes in. Deep tans.
50:45 Speaker 02 Yes.
50:46 Speaker 03 Sort of macho, Tom Selleck.
50:47 Speaker 02 Tom Selleck, of course.
50:48 Speaker 03 High waisted jeans, you know, you're showing off your package.
50:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
50:53 Speaker 02 Go out, go out.
50:53 Speaker 03 Yeah. But it's also, it's not, they're not like ripped, ripped.
50:58 Speaker 02 It's working muscles.
50:59 Speaker 03 Yes.
51:00 Speaker 04 It's a bit of fun.
51:01 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:02 Speaker 04 It's a bit like, we have a bit of fun, by the way.
51:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:04 Speaker 04 We're not in the gym every day. We're not pushing around packages every day.
51:07 Speaker 03 Exactly. You could lift a woman up.
51:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:10 Speaker 03 And smack, but also you'd smash a cheeseburger.
51:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
51:12 Speaker 03 You know?
51:12 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:13 Speaker 04 One in each hand.
51:14 Speaker 03 Exactly.
51:16 Speaker 02 So what does this do for you? Is this a masculine ideal for you, would you say at the minute?
51:19 Speaker 04 So do you know what? I wouldn't say, I, I do like it, but it's not, I, it's really interesting. There's something about it that is like a little bit of a turn off, but I can't quite figure out what it is.
51:28 Speaker 03 It reminds you of your dad, probably.
51:30 Speaker 04 Well, no, that would be a turn on.
51:31 Speaker 03 Would it?
51:32 Speaker 02 Come on, this is basic stuff.
51:33 Speaker 03 Is it?
51:34 Speaker 04 Basic stuff. The more like my dad, the better.
51:36 Speaker 02 Yeah.
51:36 Speaker 03 But surely there's a point where it passes and it throws you off because it's, it is your dad.
51:42 Speaker 04 At the point where it's a hundred percent match.
51:44 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
51:44 Speaker 04 Little bit of a turn off.
51:45 Speaker 02 So what do you think? Can we get closer to what you're, where you're at sexually at the minute? So we got, if it's that.
51:50 Speaker 04 I thought you'd never ask.
51:51 Speaker 02 What, um, let's move this to what masculine ideal.
51:54 Speaker 04 So how tall is this guy? I guess maybe he looks a bit short, like a short kid.
51:58 Speaker 03 No, no, no, no. He's, he's wearing high waisted trousers.
52:00 Speaker 04 Maybe it's.
52:01 Speaker 02 Is there a male celebrity at the minute who kind of epitomizes your, your male sexual ideal?
52:07 Speaker 04 So I wouldn't say I'm like going out of my way.
52:09 Speaker 03 Chalamet, what's your opinion on Chalamet?
52:11 Speaker 04 No, so that, I've done that. I've been there and I've done that. I had to.
52:13 Speaker 03 You're not saying it's Timothy Chalamet?
52:15 Speaker 02 Been there, done that. Slipping it's that.
52:18 Speaker 03 Flurried that out.
52:19 Speaker 02 Fuck him, been there, done that.
52:21 Speaker 04 I had a boyfriend who looked so much like Timothy Chalamet.
52:25 Speaker 03 Puckish.
52:25 Speaker 04 Before Chalamet was a thing. Yeah. Sort of like. Dainty.
52:30 Speaker 02 Yeah. Dainty. Gets bruised by the wind.
52:32 Speaker 03 Yeah.
52:32 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly. Virgin.
52:34 Speaker 03 Ben Kentish, why have you got Ben Kentish up?
52:37 Speaker 02 What did you find? Ben Kentish for now, we see.
52:40 Speaker 04 Been there, done that. Been there, done that.
52:42 Speaker 03 I'd say Ben Kentish is about as down the line as you can get. All right, he's not Shalhoub at all.
52:47 Speaker 02 Is he doing something for you, Charlie, Ben Kentish? Not at all. Not at all.
52:50 Speaker 04 I'll try and find the guy that I fancy.
52:51 Speaker 02 Sorry, Ben Kentish.
52:52 Speaker 03 What about Tom Swartbrick?
52:53 Speaker 04 Now, what about John Cleese?
52:55 Speaker 03 Eh?
52:56 Speaker 02 Now.
52:56 Speaker 04 My hear me out is early John Cleese.
52:58 Speaker 02 Well, yeah.
52:59 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah.
52:59 Speaker 04 Okay.
53:00 Speaker 02 When he's shouting it, yeah.
53:01 Speaker 03 Do you know, but has he lost his hair at this point?
53:03 Speaker 04 Uh, early John Cleese, like, yeah, like, five, 10 years ago.
53:06 Speaker 03 Cut him over.
53:06 Speaker 02 The hairline.
53:08 Speaker 03 So it's really his height, height is crucial.
53:09 Speaker 04 I'm enjoying height.
53:11 Speaker 02 I think height's always been one of the most, that's probably the most vapid women get with sexuality is the height thing. That's the thing that a lot of angry incels throw back at women.
53:20 Speaker 03 Yes.
53:20 Speaker 02 It's kind of the most male thing that women have is that they're very quite strict with height.
53:24 Speaker 04 And you guys can't really do anything about it, which is what's, what is like.
53:28 Speaker 02 Okay, we got leg extenders, Charlie.
53:30 Speaker 04 God, okay, I'm not sure I'd actually back this with, oh, no, that's kind of nice.
53:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:34 Speaker 02 He has something about him for sure. Get, there we go. So what you do is you break the bone, then you extend it with like a, so basically they fully.
53:42 Speaker 04 Do more of that.
53:42 Speaker 02 Yeah, they fully disable themselves, you can barely walk, but you get like maybe a three inches taller.
53:48 Speaker 03 But you have to sit down all the time.
53:50 Speaker 04 So just get a high chair.
53:51 Speaker 02 Yeah.
53:52 Speaker 04 Just get a high chair. Do you know what I have, what I do know about my type is I don't think I've ever dated a blonde man.
53:57 Speaker 03 Interesting.
53:58 Speaker 02 Okay.
53:59 Speaker 04 Sorry, so that's you out.
54:00 Speaker 02 It feels like a personal attack, but what do you think that is?
54:03 Speaker 04 I don't know, I, I used to think of myself as a, I like that because in one direction, my favorite one was Nile.
54:09 Speaker 02 Interesting, so you're Nile.
54:10 Speaker 04 But I think that was actually more of like a, let's be real about this.
54:12 Speaker 02 Let's be real about, what do you mean?
54:14 Speaker 04 Like, which one could I get?
54:15 Speaker 02 Oh, I see, attainable.
54:17 Speaker 04 Yeah.
54:17 Speaker 02 Yeah, he's dumb, easily tricked.
54:20 Speaker 03 Nile isn't a natural blonde, says our researcher. Sorry.
54:24 Speaker 02 Furious researcher.
54:25 Speaker 04 Isn't a natural blonde? You're kidding? Well, maybe that's why I was attracted to him.
54:28 Speaker 02 Because deep down, he had the spirit of brunette.
54:30 Speaker 03 So the beefcake era, now in some, this is where there's like a fork in the road. So you've got the seventies beefcake, my ideal.
54:38 Speaker 04 Yep.
54:38 Speaker 03 And then.
54:39 Speaker 02 But you like beefcake as well, just in general?
54:41 Speaker 03 I like cake, I like beef.
54:45 Speaker 03 But then you have, it kind of doubles down where you get the Schwarzenegger bodybuilding.
54:50 Speaker 02 Yes, that's where it gets.
54:51 Speaker 03 Gym culture begins in the eighties.
54:52 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't like that for sure.
54:53 Speaker 03 The handbrake is off, we're all going all in, getting as big as possible. And then you have the other path, which is Andre Lee, Bowie.
54:59 Speaker 02 New romantic.
55:00 Speaker 03 New romantic, heroin, basically.
55:02 Speaker 02 Playing with gender.
55:03 Speaker 03 Yes, gen- yeah.
55:04 Speaker 02 As if it's just nothing.
55:05 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:07 Speaker 02 As if it's just some sort of plaything.
55:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:09 Speaker 02 It's incredibly serious, especially if you take it in.
55:11 Speaker 03 It's restrictive, it's a box, you should stay in it.
55:16 Speaker 03 But Bowie and Jagger, those gender traitors, they wear makeup, jewellery, platform shoes.
55:21 Speaker 02 Yeah, gender terrorists is what I call them.
55:23 Speaker 03 Gender terrorists, yeah.
55:25 Speaker 03 And then, but meanwhile, the brave guerrilla fighters of Schwarzenegger and Sebastopol alone are trying to keep a grip on masculinity.
55:34 Speaker 04 They're not, they're playing.
55:36 Speaker 02 I mean, women.
55:36 Speaker 04 Look at how tight that is.
55:37 Speaker 02 Women don't get involved in this at all, is what I like.
55:39 Speaker 03 How far could he throw you?
55:41 Speaker 04 How, well, I'd like to know.
55:42 Speaker 03 There you go.
55:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, I would like to know, but I don't, but I don't find that attractive, that's too much arm for me. That's, that's like.
55:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's a lot.
55:50 Speaker 03 This is what we were saying about dicks.
55:52 Speaker 04 There's like two arms.
55:52 Speaker 03 We were saying about dicks, it's clumsy.
55:53 Speaker 02 It's clumsy.
55:54 Speaker 04 It's clumsy.
55:54 Speaker 03 It's clumsy, drunken.
55:56 Speaker 04 Maybe you've actually won me around.
55:56 Speaker 02 Yeah.
55:57 Speaker 03 So, obviously I'd say the eighties is probably the worst time for male hair, I would say.
56:02 Speaker 04 Hair is the biggest thing, I think.
56:04 Speaker 03 Go on.
56:05 Speaker 04 I think you can get away with a lot if you've got a good head of hair.
56:08 Speaker 02 So I guess the other vain thing that women throw at men, it's the height and the baldness, that's another big one.
56:14 Speaker 04 Short bald guy, game over.
56:15 Speaker 02 Interestingly, yeah.
56:17 Speaker 03 Game over.
56:17 Speaker 02 Shout out.
56:18 Speaker 04 Sorry to a lot of your viewers.
56:19 Speaker 02 Most of our patrons are short bald guys.
56:21 Speaker 03 And that was the sound of 30,000 people turning off.
56:27 Speaker 02 But, so now in Hollywood, as we see with the Zen Pit, there might be the death of sort of fat people in the media with Turkey and hair transplants.
56:35 Speaker 04 Hair's back.
56:36 Speaker 02 We're gonna, yeah, we're not gonna, we're not gonna see balding hair transplants. And I do think there's something missing, let's get Robert Duvall on. So like the seventies hairline, I do think women, there was a ruggedness.
56:45 Speaker 04 But didn't you think, I thought bald was maybe gonna have a comeback?
56:47 Speaker 02 Look, look, look.
56:48 Speaker 04 Oh no.
56:49 Speaker 03 No, no, no, Annie, you don't understand, he's 29 in that photo. That's phenomenal.
56:53 Speaker 04 Do you not think, I thought for a moment bald would be back when Charlie XCX married a bald guy.
56:58 Speaker 02 Yes.
56:58 Speaker 04 That could have been huge if they knew that's true, right?
57:01 Speaker 02 Don't you, wouldn't you say? Because I think gays rock bald quite well because you shave it off confidently, you wear a vest.
57:07 Speaker 04 Yeah.
57:07 Speaker 02 And that tight vest bald thing kind of works.
57:09 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
57:10 Speaker 02 I think it's a bit different to like England fans.
57:12 Speaker 04 But he's not gay.
57:14 Speaker 02 Yes, but he's playing with the Dalston thing.
57:16 Speaker 04 He's playing once again.
57:18 Speaker 02 They're both queer baiting.
57:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, sure.
57:19 Speaker 02 Right? They're both, actually quite a committed straight couple.
57:22 Speaker 03 Very different, my queer bait.
57:23 Speaker 02 You actually rattle.
57:25 Speaker 03 Yeah, caterers.
57:27 Speaker 02 You put queer people.
57:31 Speaker 03 But then, I'm thinking more about the mullets in the eighties.
57:34 Speaker 04 Oh, yes.
57:34 Speaker 03 What now you'd say is present day Australian fashion.
57:37 Speaker 04 Yeah, very nice.
57:38 Speaker 02 Australian culture is now starting to become global.
57:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's catching up.
57:41 Speaker 02 Yeah.
57:41 Speaker 03 So you have, you have the moustache, the mullet. The nineties, again, we lose the muscles and it, and it sort of settles.
57:50 Speaker 02 Curtains, Titanic.
57:51 Speaker 03 Beckham, the curtains era.
57:54 Speaker 02 This is what I probably go, this is why I have shown in, in hairdressers, but this is one thing I'm playing the hair I've got, but I would probably go nineties.
58:01 Speaker 04 Do you, I kind of think, given this, given the types of images I used to show at the hairdressers, I would go into the hairdressers and just show a picture of a girl who, in retrospect, I just fancied.
58:11 Speaker 02 Beyonce.
58:12 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah. Can I have this? And they'd just be like, okay, we can't do that. But is that the same for guys when you're taking in a photo to the hairdresser? Is it a little bit like, oh, he's just hot?
58:23 Speaker 02 It's pretty embarrassing.
58:25 Speaker 03 I think it's more I want to be that guy.
58:26 Speaker 02 Yeah.
58:27 Speaker 04 It is more.
58:27 Speaker 03 Just James Bond every time.
58:28 Speaker 02 It's one of the most vulnerable humiliating things.
58:30 Speaker 04 Through the barrel of the gun.
58:31 Speaker 02 For a straight man to go into a barber's and be like, this is a guy I fancy.
58:35 Speaker 03 Can I look like him, please?
58:37 Speaker 02 It's humiliating.
58:37 Speaker 03 He looks happy.
58:38 Speaker 04 What would you say usually?
58:40 Speaker 02 I'd, I'd go Leo, nineties. But it's more, it's not, it's my favorite look. I just don't.
58:45 Speaker 03 Timothy Dalton, Timothy Dalton in Living Daylight.
58:48 Speaker 04 That's like a thing on TikTok now is they'll say like, if you want to look at your hottest self, you should find a celebrity who looks kind of like you and then copy everything they do.
58:55 Speaker 02 Hmm.
58:56 Speaker 04 Have you heard that?
58:57 Speaker 02 That's a great bit of advice.
58:58 Speaker 04 It's basically like, look at the colors they wear.
59:00 Speaker 02 Peter Dinklage, can we get Peter Dinklage up? What sort of fits is he wearing?
59:05 Speaker 03 Well, you need leg reduction surgery first of all.
59:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, I guess I could wear, yeah, maybe.
59:11 Speaker 03 Beard.
59:11 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, hat.
59:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, because what I'm sort of doing is I'm doing the pretty boy aesthetic with a sort of chopped face. So it's kind of like. Yeah, I don't know if he's got any sort of style that I'd be copying. Yeah. Who's your?
59:27 Speaker 04 I'm still figuring it out. I haven't figured out.
59:29 Speaker 02 Maybe Chapel Rohn, maybe?
59:30 Speaker 04 I guess I had that a bit, but I think that's more just because of having red hair.
59:33 Speaker 02 That's probably what tricked me. You tricked me.
59:38 Speaker 02 Gender terrorist.
59:42 Speaker 04 I thought we were getting Chapel Rohn on the podcast.
59:44 Speaker 03 We're being attacked by a gender terrorist still. We need to get through the metrosexual phase, of course, the 2000s. Beckham's wearing a sarong.
59:51 Speaker 02 Yes, I mean Beckham, he charts male.
59:53 Speaker 03 Beckham turns the world gay for a decade.
59:55 Speaker 04 Did Beckham have an impact on you guys?
59:57 Speaker 02 He had an impact on everyone.
59:59 Speaker 03 There were kids with mohawks.
1:00:01 Speaker 04 But you specifically?
1:00:02 Speaker 03 No, no, no, no.
1:00:03 Speaker 02 His influence on, he's probably the most influential man on male hair ever.
1:00:07 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:07 Speaker 02 He would do new hairstyles every year and whatever he chose was the hairstyle.
1:00:12 Speaker 03 A generation's men.
1:00:13 Speaker 02 He'd go through his hairstyle.
1:00:13 Speaker 04 That's kind of amazing to get to that point.
1:00:15 Speaker 02 Number one photo, let's get Beckham meeting Mandela. Now, this is Beckham's best haircut. What, you're gonna meet maybe the most iconic black man of all time, potentially Mandela. The most iconic man of the 20th century, potentially. He goes in, cornrows. Now, that is a, that's a confident hairstyle.
1:00:32 Speaker 04 Cornrows and a fleece?
1:00:34 Speaker 03 That's equality. Okay?
1:00:36 Speaker 02 He's fixed racism.
1:00:37 Speaker 03 That's modern day South Africa, okay?
1:00:40 Speaker 04 Oh my god.
1:00:40 Speaker 03 You're only doing that, you're only doing that post apartheid.
1:00:43 Speaker 02 Yeah, a man who has such good hair that he can do whatever he wants with it seemingly. Who am I meeting? Mandela? Cornrows, please.
1:00:49 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:00:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, like, what one that is?
1:00:53 Speaker 03 Look how small his forehead is, okay? He's not aware of what one that has done. He's a himbo.
1:00:58 Speaker 04 You can't wear cornrows and a cardigan and be white.
1:01:01 Speaker 03 It's the 2000s, you could. You could.
1:01:03 Speaker 04 I guess that's his equivalent.
1:01:04 Speaker 02 Favorite Beckham haircut, genuine. Like, what do you think? I think spiky hair Beckham's probably one of the best haircuts.
1:01:09 Speaker 03 The frosted tips when he scores from the half, or that kind of like platinum blonde when he's still got the curtains before the mohawk. Yeah. I also like the shaved head with the massive, it looked like a Nazi eagle, doesn't it? But it's not.
1:01:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think that's kind of.
1:01:26 Speaker 04 That's nice.
1:01:26 Speaker 03 Yeah, the curtains there.
1:01:27 Speaker 04 Curtains is good.
1:01:28 Speaker 03 Ninety-eight is pretty good.
1:01:29 Speaker 04 I think we need a movement towards curtains back in.
1:01:31 Speaker 02 I think so.
1:01:32 Speaker 04 Curtains are nice.
1:01:32 Speaker 03 Now, in the 2010s, you'd get the start of the dad bod.
1:01:35 Speaker 02 Hmm.
1:01:36 Speaker 03 Which again is sort of a.
1:01:38 Speaker 02 Is this a response to body positivity?
1:01:40 Speaker 03 This is the male body positivity, I'd say. But again, it's not.
1:01:43 Speaker 04 But female body positivity wasn't woman bod, wasn't mum bod.
1:01:46 Speaker 03 No.
1:01:47 Speaker 02 Because you wouldn't say, say that, but it was mum bod, but you would say empowerment.
1:01:51 Speaker 03 Because what a mum bod actually is, is when basically you knock your vaginal wall through and you just have one hole down there. That's a mum bod.
1:01:57 Speaker 04 Let's, let's bring that up.
1:01:59 Speaker 02 I thought you were going to go through here.
1:01:59 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah. My arse and my vagina are the same.
1:02:02 Speaker 02 Right, yeah.
1:02:03 Speaker 03 She's got a mum bod.
1:02:04 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:02:04 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:02:04 Speaker 03 And she's got chewed nipples. I mean, the, the, the motherhood experience is different to the fatherhood one.
1:02:09 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:02:09 Speaker 03 You know, we just get a bit fat, a bit pochy.
1:02:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:02:13 Speaker 03 But.
1:02:13 Speaker 02 Yeah, mum bod's more serious.
1:02:14 Speaker 04 I know, that's tough.
1:02:15 Speaker 03 Yes.
1:02:15 Speaker 04 That's tough.
1:02:15 Speaker 03 Well, it's, yes, devastating. But I'd say the dad bod, again, body positivity is driven more by women in the 2010s. Would you say, actually, that the body positive movement is the sort of the first time, it's like a battle over the ideal, which it feels like has been male-led this entire time?
1:02:34 Speaker 02 Trying to reclaim the.
1:02:35 Speaker 03 And then it's social media, it's democratized media, it's trying to paint culture from the ground up rather than the top down.
1:02:42 Speaker 02 Well, it, it was trying to make it a communal democratic thing.
1:02:46 Speaker 03 Yes, exactly.
1:02:47 Speaker 02 You're not striving to an ideal.
1:02:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, we're all beautiful. We're all beautiful in our own way. Oh, wait, as Empic, now let's all be this.
1:02:53 Speaker 04 I feel like the thing that is, that's always made the biggest difference for me was, would never be like a big movement. It's always just like hearing someone, you just hear like a, one of your friends talk about someone they find fit and you go, I don't find them fit. And then you go, oh, right, people just find different things fit.
1:03:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:03:07 Speaker 04 It's kind of that simple.
1:03:08 Speaker 03 Uh, then of course, there's a backlash to that where you get looks maxing, which is kind of where we're at now.
1:03:12 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:03:13 Speaker 03 Um, you have clavicular smashing his face up with a hammer to try and accentuate jawlines and cheekbones.
1:03:19 Speaker 02 Well, I guess the, the clavicular, it comes out of incel culture, which I never really understood in so, like, thesis that women are vain and will only go for genetically superior men, when it's kind of the vice versa. And ugly men have done so well romantically. I always found it weird that the incel thing was, I was forced to have this hideous face, therefore I'll never have sex, therefore I'm going to either take it or shoot up school. When it's like, ugly men, there's so many role models.
1:03:46 Speaker 04 They're actually doing amazing, just be funny.
1:03:47 Speaker 02 Ugly men are incredible, like, you're such a, if you're an ugly woman, you should be shooting the school up.
1:03:51 Speaker 04 Yeah, for sure.
1:03:52 Speaker 02 You have way more, genuinely.
1:03:54 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
1:03:54 Speaker 02 And I guess if out of that comes looks maxing, because it's this idea that if you want to move up in the world, you have to be, look perfect as a man.
1:04:03 Speaker 04 Well, I think it's also about control because I think like, for me as a kid, I was, when I was like stressed about the way I looked, what was so terrifying about it was like, I have no control over it. Like I can't change it.
1:04:13 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:04:14 Speaker 04 And then you hear about plastic surgery and then you, and then you're like, okay, so I guess I could control it if I had enough money. But now it's like, all you need is like a hammer and you can just go to town.
1:04:23 Speaker 03 And with that in mind, I'm going to throw to our Patreon episode this week, which where Paddy will be back and Anya will still be here. And we'll be talking about the history of plastic surgery.
1:04:30 Speaker 04 Wow, I just did an amazing link.
1:04:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's lovely.
1:04:32 Speaker 04 By accident.
1:04:33 Speaker 03 I'm a broadcaster.
1:04:33 Speaker 02 Liquid podcasting.
1:04:35 Speaker 03 We've got to wrap up. Anya, thanks so much for coming on.
1:04:37 Speaker 02 It was a joy.
1:04:37 Speaker 04 Thank you.
1:04:38 Speaker 03 Would you like to plug anything?
1:04:39 Speaker 04 Yes. What should I plug? Newly single?
1:04:43 Speaker 02 Yeah. Peach fuzz, which is about your arse hair.
1:04:46 Speaker 04 Peach fuzz, which is about my...
1:04:47 Speaker 03 We're talking about her arse hair and she's, she's looking for a man to bend her over a barrel.
1:04:51 Speaker 04 If you think my arse hair is peach fuzz, you're so naive. That's just the rest. Yeah, it's, it's, it's on tour around the place.
1:04:58 Speaker 03 And you're also, you're just, you're also on tour about the place.
1:05:01 Speaker 04 I'm on tour about the place.
1:05:02 Speaker 03 Looking for barrels.
1:05:03 Speaker 04 Bring a barrel, bring a ring.
1:05:05 Speaker 02 Around the country.
1:05:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
1:05:06 Speaker 02 Lock up your sons.
1:05:08 Speaker 03 Lock up your daughters.
1:05:08 Speaker 02 Your nephews.
1:05:09 Speaker 04 And yeah, and daughters, thank you, and nieces.
1:05:11 Speaker 02 And dads.
1:05:13 Speaker 03 And the dads and the mums.
1:05:14 Speaker 04 Mums are fine.
1:05:15 Speaker 03 There's dogs and rabbits eating each other. It's a bloodbath.
1:05:17 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:05:18 Speaker 03 Anyway, Anya's out there.
1:05:20 Speaker 02 Her standup's great. She's, you should see her live. It's fantastic.
1:05:22 Speaker 03 Yeah, I can't speak to her, to what she's like on a date, but brilliant comic. SNL's back as well at some point.
1:05:28 Speaker 02 Yeah.
1:05:29 Speaker 04 Yeah.
1:05:29 Speaker 03 And we'll see you on the Patreon for the history of plastic surgery.
1:05:32 Speaker 04 Bye.
1:05:33 Speaker 03 For all of us here at Inversus History, goodbye.
1:05:51 Speaker 01 Now at Kroger, your points add up to more ways to save every trip. Use them your way to take dollars off groceries at checkout or save at the pump. You can even save up to $35 on your next fill-up. Same points, more choices. And with low prices on fresh, quality food, plus digital and personalised offers tailored to how you shop, your dollar goes further. Redeem your points online or in the app. Kroger, fresh for everyone. Restrictions apply. See site or store for details.
Previous Big Botticelli Gyal (with Paddy Young!) | The History of Beauty Standards (Part 1) Next The Timeless Comedy of Baking Dwarves Into Pies | Peter The Great Page updated October 29, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated