Pod Insights Fin vs History Fascist Eurovision | The History of The World Cup (Part 1/4) About this episode Was Hitler Any Good At Keepy Uppies?
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00:00 - A Mad Frenchman
04:19 - Working Class Phrenology
07:42 - Raygun
14:44 - Harry Styles
20:48 - The Maimed One
25:16 - Today, I Am Fascist
30:27 - Full Body Cast
34:52 - I Am Corrupt
38:29 - Heavy Impact Sub
42:57 - Meow!
45:41 - It’s Binary
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Transcript 10,760 words · 7 speakers
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1:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, Maradona in 86. I mean, where'd you even begin?
1:20 Speaker 03 What can you say about Maradona that hasn't already been said? He's black. He's not, but people haven't called him that, so...
1:28 Speaker 02 I'm telling you, no one, no one had him like Diego.
1:31 Speaker 04 There were talented players on our team, but we weren't allowed to do what he could do. It was like he was playing a different game.
1:41 Speaker 03 I remember trying to get the ball off of him. You just couldn't, because he just held on so tight.
1:48 Speaker 04 He was doing things with a football.
1:50 Speaker 02 But we just couldn't. He was literally picking it up and bouncing it on the floor with his hands.
1:58 Speaker 03 You know, I put him up there with LeBron and Michael Jordan as one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Sadly, we were playing football.
2:05 Speaker 02 You know, modern football, it's all about the system now, the team. It's not like the old days, the magic, where it was, you know, it was just about just moving around, not even using your feet, just jumping up and punching it past the keeper. He had the left foot of Push Gas, he had the right foot of Pele and the uppercut of George Foreman. Football has rules and he did not stick to them, ever. And when he took the rulebook, chopped it up, racked it into a line, snotted it. Unbelievable. What a player. I don't know what drug he was taking, but he had cocaine all over his face.
2:40 Speaker 03 He was definitely the biggest inspiration in my life.
2:59 Speaker 05 Welcome back to Fin vs History. Joining me is Ray Show Gold.
3:06 Speaker 05 And today, I feel African. I feel disabled. Today, I feel gay. Today, I feel disabled. Today, I feel like being pegged by a trans man. That's me responding to comments on my Instagram reels. The long road to Gianni Infantino, the peak press conference. We're talking about the history of the World Cup. It's World Cup fortnight. The World Cup is on, I think, as this goes out.
3:34 Speaker 03 I hope, that was the plan.
3:36 Speaker 05 It would be very stupid if it wasn't.
3:38 Speaker 03 Because we would have just missed it.
3:39 Speaker 05 We've missed it.
3:40 Speaker 03 This might have been, you might, the end of the World Cup, the theme is over. Now the history of the World Cup.
3:45 Speaker 05 We've completely ruined this. This is going out during the England Test summer. And it's a four-part series. We'll be joined by the upshot. Probably, they're in our sphere, I'd say.
3:54 Speaker 03 I think so, yeah. Of like, I don't know, just having a plan.
3:59 Speaker 05 Have a podcast that's researched, but ultimately you still just talk about people being gay and autistic.
4:03 Speaker 03 And pedos.
4:04 Speaker 05 And pedos, yeah.
4:05 Speaker 03 Is paying a full-time researcher just to talk about the Nazis' pedos being gay?
4:10 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly.
4:10 Speaker 03 That's the sphere we're in.
4:11 Speaker 05 If you can research everything else, we'll just talk about how they're all pedos and gay and Nazis, okay? But they do that, but for sport. Brilliant podcast. They'll be in next episode, but we're breaking the World Cup down to four parts. I'll say now, this is one of my favourites, I think.
4:25 Speaker 03 It's amazing, doing the research, yeah, it's been sort of fucked from the off.
4:30 Speaker 05 From the beginning.
4:30 Speaker 03 People talking about the World Cup's gone corrupt is basically from the get-go.
4:34 Speaker 05 It was founded.
4:35 Speaker 03 Arguably, it's the least corrupt it's ever been.
4:36 Speaker 05 It's got less corrupt over time. Qatar was the cleanest World Cup there's ever been.
4:41 Speaker 03 It's crazy. Out the gate, just pure evil.
4:44 Speaker 05 Pure evil. But founded on a mad promise.
4:49 Speaker 03 Yes.
4:49 Speaker 05 He wanted to make a pure World Cup.
4:51 Speaker 03 Who's he?
4:52 Speaker 05 Jules Rimet, the guy who founded it, which we'll get to. Obviously, this story begins in, I'd say, my favourite time and yours, 1890s Europe. Don't pull that push off the gate.
5:06 Speaker 03 Pulling me down with you is you traverse off.
5:09 Speaker 05 We've hosted a podcast for a year and a half. There's only so much distancing you can do now from this.
5:16 Speaker 03 I barely knew him.
5:16 Speaker 05 The cognitive dissonance you operate in, you go, yeah, no, he says some wild stuff.
5:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, he says some stuff, you know. I bet, you know, I'm allowed to leave some shots. Just because you're bowling, doesn't mean that I'm you.
5:26 Speaker 05 No, what's happened to your stumps, though?
5:29 Speaker 05 So, we start this story in the 1890s, or rather, the guy that starts this story is a guy called Jules Rimet.
5:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:38 Speaker 05 A Frenchman, a mad Frenchman.
5:41 Speaker 03 Yep, off his head.
5:42 Speaker 05 Off his nut.
5:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:44 Speaker 05 He's born in 1870s in a small village in France.
5:47 Speaker 03 It's the 70s.
5:48 Speaker 05 It's not the 70s, it's the 1870s. But as a young man, he moves to Paris.
5:54 Speaker 03 Yeah.
5:54 Speaker 05 And in the 1890s, he begins breathing in the air of 1890s Europe.
6:00 Speaker 03 Right.
6:01 Speaker 05 A lot of mad ideas. It smells of shit, but there's some mad ideas around.
6:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
6:05 Speaker 05 You know, phrenology.
6:06 Speaker 03 Sure.
6:07 Speaker 05 The idea that you could see a criminal just by looking how about how long his forearms was.
6:11 Speaker 03 It's the golden age of ranking races.
6:14 Speaker 05 Yes.
6:15 Speaker 03 Which ChatGPT refuses to do.
6:17 Speaker 05 Yeah, but YouTubers do. Tier list, you know? If we're going to rank races now, let's do a clip for the S tier. Right, so you've got S tier, A tier, B tier, C tier, okay?
6:29 Speaker 03 I don't see colour.
6:31 Speaker 05 I just left that one. Fair enough. I thought we could do a little clip there.
6:33 Speaker 03 No.
6:34 Speaker 05 What have you got found, Charlie?
6:35 Speaker 03 This is an obese baby, unnamed, from 1904. It's like the unnamed soldier. I think it survived 11 hours, although that baby looks older than 11 hours.
6:43 Speaker 05 They don't start smiling till about three, four months.
6:45 Speaker 03 I don't like them till they're at least two.
6:49 Speaker 03 In a normal way.
6:50 Speaker 05 Yeah. So that's, that's the site, yeah, the, that's not, that's not 11 hour baby.
6:57 Speaker 03 Fine. Hitler's fat brother, it's sort of.
7:01 Speaker 05 Yes, lol. So we're in the 1890s and Jules Reme is a French lawyer. I think he's had a pretty shit amateur football career. It should be, it's a slur. Not Jules Rimmer, Charlie. What is muckrak? Get that off the screen. Get that off the screen. Is that one of your disgusting sites? muckrak.com?
7:19 Speaker 03 I'm a muckranger.
7:20 Speaker 05 So Jules Reme is a Frenchman who, I think maybe been an amateur footballer for a bit. And when he moves to Paris, he realises that everyone's very poor.
7:28 Speaker 03 Yeah.
7:29 Speaker 05 And he gets sad about that. And also, this is the era of amateur football.
7:34 Speaker 03 Yes.
7:34 Speaker 05 So you can't do it, you can't compete if you're being paid.
7:37 Speaker 03 And I think, yes, and certainly in English sport and culture, there's a lot of respect for the amateur. It's a class thing, as we talked about in the cricket series.
7:45 Speaker 05 Yes.
7:45 Speaker 03 It's the more noble thing is to not do it professionally, do it for the love of the game. Professionalism ruins it.
7:51 Speaker 05 It's prostitution.
7:52 Speaker 03 Similar with you, with phrenology, right?
7:54 Speaker 05 Yes, yes, exactly.
7:54 Speaker 03 Professional phrenology, it's like, that's working class phrenology.
7:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
7:58 Speaker 03 That's not the gentleman. The gentleman does it.
8:00 Speaker 05 I don't take a fee. When I conduct my phrenological experiments.
8:03 Speaker 03 You're doing it as a, as a exercise in honour, in curiosity, a gift to the world.
8:08 Speaker 05 Yes.
8:09 Speaker 03 To professionalise it would be to ruin it.
8:10 Speaker 05 To ruin it. It would take all the love out of it I have for it. You know, don't make your hobby your job.
8:15 Speaker 03 Yes, yeah.
8:16 Speaker 05 I'm not a phrenology prostitute.
8:18 Speaker 03 No.
8:18 Speaker 05 No.
8:18 Speaker 03 God, no.
8:19 Speaker 05 I'm a phrenology pimp.
8:20 Speaker 03 But you will use a lot of prostitutes in your experiments.
8:23 Speaker 05 Of course, someone needs to categorise what's going on. How big are their heads, you know?
8:29 Speaker 03 Is that why?
8:29 Speaker 05 Is that why they're a prostitute? Is their head too big?
8:34 Speaker 05 I'm not drawing any conclusions, but I am an author now.
8:36 Speaker 03 Yeah.
8:37 Speaker 05 Anyway, so Georges Remeille is in 1890s Paris. A lot of other crazy ideas are going on at this time.
8:43 Speaker 03 Who's around?
8:43 Speaker 05 This is the birth of sociology.
8:47 Speaker 03 In Paris?
8:48 Speaker 05 1890s France.
8:49 Speaker 03 This is the Belle Epoque.
8:50 Speaker 05 This is the fantasy eccl.
8:51 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's funny that that's where it all came and Belle Epoque means like the good times.
8:56 Speaker 05 Good times.
8:57 Speaker 03 Yeah. You view it as the good times.
8:58 Speaker 05 Yes, exactly. I called it the Belle Epoque.
9:02 Speaker 05 Yeah, so this is, but what's very funny is that the stereotype of the kind of brooding, depressed, French nihilistic intellectual.
9:10 Speaker 03 Bear a cigarette.
9:11 Speaker 05 Yeah, sociology is invented with a text in 1899 by a guy called Durkheim and it's, the, the, the book is called Suicide.
9:18 Speaker 03 Right.
9:19 Speaker 05 And it's about how.
9:20 Speaker 03 Does it have a subtitle?
9:21 Speaker 05 No, it's just called Suicide. And it's like, suicide is not just mad when you are mad, it is because the world is leaving you behind. And he basically, he frames suicide as like a result of sociological stuff, rather than just a mad cunt.
9:38 Speaker 03 What is the response to your place in the social hierarchy?
9:42 Speaker 05 He takes a lot of data and he finds that Protestants kill themselves more than Catholics, obviously.
9:47 Speaker 03 Right.
9:47 Speaker 05 Because we're not a burden to the state.
9:51 Speaker 05 No, because they have, because they have less ties to the community. But, but they're, they're less involved. It's less about the family, it's about coming together, it's more individualistic. So he sort of.
10:03 Speaker 03 Yeah, there's nothing more individualistic than killing yourself. That's the ultimate.
10:06 Speaker 05 Exactly. So, but he finds that Protestants are more than Catholics, which then sort of goes against the idea that it's, it's just because you're a mad cunt that you kill yourself. So this is the birth of sociology and science.
10:17 Speaker 03 Right.
10:18 Speaker 05 It's explaining suicide. That's the first.
10:20 Speaker 03 Not that you're just mental.
10:21 Speaker 05 Not that you're just mental.
10:22 Speaker 03 Right.
10:23 Speaker 05 Although that can happen, I'm sure. So to place, I mean, FIFA is founded in 1904. To place that, it is after suicide is explained in 1899. And it's before Franz Riechel jumps from the Eiffel Tower.
10:37 Speaker 03 And accidentally commits suicide. Is it suicide if you have to mean it if you're doing suicide?
10:42 Speaker 05 Yeah, he thought he could fly.
10:43 Speaker 03 So it wasn't suicide?
10:44 Speaker 05 No. Well, it was.
10:47 Speaker 03 What's the definition of suicide?
10:48 Speaker 05 I don't know. Does, right, Charlie's just Googled, does suicide require intent?
10:53 Speaker 03 And the Samaritans have come.
10:54 Speaker 05 Samaritans have cock-blocked us.
10:57 Speaker 03 Defines, defines.
10:58 Speaker 05 Defines suicide. It's the act of intentionally causing one's own death.
11:00 Speaker 03 So he didn't commit suicide?
11:02 Speaker 05 No.
11:04 Speaker 03 What's, what, what, what's the word for accidentally killing yourself?
11:06 Speaker 02 Unintentional self-inflicted death.
11:10 Speaker 05 Misadvent, misadventure.
11:13 Speaker 03 Yeah, so it was a mid, so it was a misadventure?
11:14 Speaker 05 Yeah. The misadventures of Franz Riechel. The unintentional self-inflicted death. Yes. So FIFA is founded in 1904.
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11:50 Speaker 06 Born from the intensity of a night in the Eternal City. Introducing Born in Roma fragrances by Valentino. Feminine perfume Donna Born in Roma features juicy black currant, central jasmine, soft cashmerin and warm vanilla. Masculine leaning but unisex Womo has notes of fresh violet leaf, aromatic sage, green vetiver and mineral salt. Shop holiday gifts at macys.com.
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12:47 Speaker 05 Before this, football is a game that is sort of barely international. England had played Scotland in the first international match in the 1870s.
12:58 Speaker 03 And it's a game for posh people at this point.
13:00 Speaker 05 Yes.
13:01 Speaker 03 This is where it starts off, right?
13:02 Speaker 05 Yeah.
13:03 Speaker 03 And it comes from the traditions of, there's been medieval traditions early where you just have a big pig's bladder and you beat the shit out of each other and the ball's sort of nearby.
13:13 Speaker 05 Yeah.
13:13 Speaker 03 Go to the Athelstone Derby.
13:16 Speaker 05 It's where Josh Pugh's from.
13:17 Speaker 03 Yeah, Athelstone Derby.
13:18 Speaker 05 It's just a guy, it's just a horde of men carrying a ball through the street.
13:22 Speaker 03 Is when people try and talk about football, like early signs of football, like FIFA always try and say football's invented in China. You notice this?
13:30 Speaker 05 Yeah, I don't stop.
13:31 Speaker 03 Because they hate to give it to England. They hate, well, they hate England.
13:34 Speaker 05 Yes.
13:34 Speaker 03 Because it's a French federation.
13:36 Speaker 05 Yeah.
13:36 Speaker 03 And they're pissed off that we invented it.
13:38 Speaker 05 Yeah.
13:38 Speaker 03 And they'll always say shit like, it actually started in China. No, they were kicking heads down the stairs.
13:44 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's not the same.
13:45 Speaker 03 That's not, you can't say that's early football.
13:47 Speaker 05 But then also, this is, this is very funny how this, so this is, we're watching footage of the historic Derbyshire football match where someone throws a ball into a massive crowd.
13:56 Speaker 03 Everyone beats the shit out of you.
13:57 Speaker 05 Now, it's quite funny that this is happening.
13:59 Speaker 03 This is at least 1667.
14:00 Speaker 05 This is basically, this is what the Spanish think is English football.
14:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
14:04 Speaker 05 This is, this is, this is Sam Allardyce initially.
14:08 Speaker 03 But there is a link to this. Our approach to England football is because.
14:13 Speaker 05 We do, we started with that.
14:14 Speaker 03 We started with this.
14:15 Speaker 05 Fucking get it off him, fucking get out of there, get rid of it, fucking off him.
14:17 Speaker 03 Challenge in, like a lot of Spanish footballers, when they come over to England, they, they realize that
14:23 Speaker 03 in Spain, you don't applaud a slide tackle in the same way. In England, we applaud slide tackles more than anything.
14:29 Speaker 05 Yes, that's true.
14:29 Speaker 03 If you get stuck in, it's like.
14:31 Speaker 05 That noise, the crunch.
14:32 Speaker 03 Yeah, that's what we believe in.
14:34 Speaker 05 Yeah.
14:36 Speaker 03 At all in the show of tide. I don't know. I think the ball is completely incidental.
14:40 Speaker 05 The level of tactical sophistication someone would have to have.
14:44 Speaker 03 I don't know if it's zonal.
14:45 Speaker 05 To pla- I think it's zonal.
14:46 Speaker 03 Is it the Gengen press? Is it like?
14:48 Speaker 05 I think if you're man marking someone in that court. I think that's hate, a hate crime if you attack someone in that. So that, yeah, the noise of a slide tackle. There's no greater sound.
15:01 Speaker 03 Yeah, the crunch.
15:02 Speaker 05 There's no greater sound than Phil Bab. I guess unintentional self castrating himself on the pole, on the goalpost against Chelsea in 1998. Anyway, Joel Rome is, uh, he doesn't found FIFA, but he's a knocking about. The founding members are like, uh, who are the founding members? France. England go, no, this is woke nonsense.
15:23 Speaker 03 Yes.
15:24 Speaker 05 So it's France, Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden and Switzerland. Germany.
15:28 Speaker 03 Very similar to the EU.
15:30 Speaker 05 Yes.
15:31 Speaker 03 Where we ignored them to begin with because we think we're better than them.
15:34 Speaker 05 Yes.
15:34 Speaker 03 And then we come crawling back.
15:35 Speaker 05 Yes, yes, exactly.
15:37 Speaker 03 It's the same sort of, and I do find it fascinating, the tension between England and France where, and I would actually make a link to Protestant and Catholic cultures.
15:44 Speaker 05 Please.
15:45 Speaker 03 Where England's sporting tradition of inventing sports.
15:48 Speaker 05 Yes.
15:49 Speaker 03 Having a laugh, not taking it that seriously. It's more of an excuse to get out and drink.
15:54 Speaker 05 Yes.
15:55 Speaker 03 Is comes from the Protestant individual sort of, you can come up with your own rules. It's a village thing. You kind of self-organise. And the French, they don't come up with their own things. They love a federation. There's Olympics, FIFA. I bet they're the ones involved in the tennis. Like any of the, England invent the sports.
16:12 Speaker 05 Yes.
16:12 Speaker 03 And the French run a corrupt bureaucracy that runs like the Catholic Church or the EU.
16:17 Speaker 05 Yes, exactly. Yeah.
16:18 Speaker 03 And that's, that's, that's the huge tension with, uh, the fucking break from Rome, uh, Brexit, early fucking FIFA is that they, the European federation. We think it stinks, basically.
16:30 Speaker 05 Yes.
16:31 Speaker 03 We can never really fit in.
16:32 Speaker 05 So they found this and England goes, no, that's Catholic bullshit.
16:36 Speaker 03 Because it's also like, you're taking it too seriously almost. It should be a, it's a laugh.
16:40 Speaker 05 Yeah. Well, we're all just having a bundle in the street with a ball.
16:43 Speaker 03 Guys, I don't know why you're making this, why are you making it gay?
16:46 Speaker 05 We're all wearing suits, smoking, talking about, so, but initially, it's all tied to the Olympics.
16:52 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:52 Speaker 05 Initially FIFA tries to start a tournament with just like Switzerland and Sweden and shit. And everyone's like, nah, fuck off. Then they start organising it in the Olympics and Uruguay win the first two titles in the Olympics. Now, it's all amateur.
17:08 Speaker 03 Yeah.
17:08 Speaker 05 And I suppose the footballers at this day and age, it's a bit like Raygun in the Olympics, breakdancing.
17:17 Speaker 03 Well, it's a pure form of.
17:20 Speaker 05 Yes, it's untouched by commercial realities.
17:23 Speaker 03 Also professional discipline.
17:25 Speaker 05 Yes.
17:25 Speaker 03 It's much more of an expressive.
17:27 Speaker 05 Yeah.
17:28 Speaker 03 You know, early form of the sport or art form.
17:31 Speaker 05 And it's only when, you know, the Europeans start getting involved and it becomes a sort of commercial reality.
17:36 Speaker 03 Something else becomes, yeah.
17:37 Speaker 05 That the kind of.
17:38 Speaker 03 The innocence has gone.
17:39 Speaker 05 Yes, the idea of, I'd say Raygun is a noble savage.
17:45 Speaker 05 Breakdancing.
17:46 Speaker 03 Imagine in a hundred years when breakdancing is this huge commercial enterprise, people look back on Raygun saying, that was actually the golden age of breakdancing.
17:53 Speaker 05 What have we lost? What have we lost?
17:56 Speaker 03 She was pretty pissed off with how people responded to it.
17:58 Speaker 05 She sued people.
17:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:00 Speaker 05 Now, what is she, sorry, can we do, what did she say? She seems she was exploring mental health.
18:05 Speaker 03 So was she that bad? What's going, because she made it in, so surely she wasn't, why was it so funny?
18:11 Speaker 05 Because it's like someone had asked me to breakdance the minute before an Olympic breakdancing.
18:19 Speaker 03 Top 10 Iliss Raygunners.
18:20 Speaker 02 It's also her face, like she looks like she's kind of.
18:23 Speaker 03 She backs it.
18:23 Speaker 02 She backs it.
18:24 Speaker 05 It's a woman who's had too much Chardonnay at a Hendu and then starts just, you know, they go to an urban club and she starts doing this.
18:34 Speaker 05 Yeah, taming the cobra. I mean, this is fucking Will Ferrell stuff in like, you know, there's also, it's kind of breakdancing.
18:40 Speaker 03 Yeah, I mean, that's not a good move.
18:42 Speaker 05 It's breakdancing Karen.
18:43 Speaker 03 Oh, that, yeah, the moving your hand towards your leg like that, that's not.
18:48 Speaker 05 Genuinely, and I don't mean this disrespectfully.
18:51 Speaker 03 Smug as well.
18:51 Speaker 05 Genuinely, I could do this. I could do this. And I did breakdancing, as we've discussed.
18:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
18:57 Speaker 05 For two terms at university.
19:00 Speaker 03 So have you got some of these in your locker?
19:01 Speaker 05 No, she's doing things that the breakdance community don't agree with.
19:07 Speaker 05 Yeah, it just, it looks, there doesn't seem to be any physical skill involved.
19:15 Speaker 05 Anyway, this is what I imagine the early, the 1920s Uruguayan team were like.
19:20 Speaker 03 Right.
19:21 Speaker 05 In that they were like, the best there's ever been, but it's the 20s. So I imagine it was a crock of shit, really. But they win gold in the 1924 and 1928 Olympics. Now, so that is why when FIFA, now this Jules Romeu guy, he becomes the president of FIFA in 1921, I think. And he's like, we've got to get rid of this amateur thing, but we have to pay them. And the Olympics are like, no, that would ruin it. But then he, so he goes, fuck it, I'm gonna start a tournament, a breakaway tournament. And he had fought in the First World War, and he thinks, what if there's a football tournament that would replace war?
20:00 Speaker 03 Right, straight Eurovision.
20:02 Speaker 05 Basically, yeah. Eurovision's around, of course, at this point. Eurovision's the oldest tournament in the game. In, in England, it had started in the 16th century with just a bunch of straight blokes, sort of beating up gays in the street.
20:16 Speaker 03 Which wasn't, yeah.
20:16 Speaker 05 That's the original Eurovision.
20:17 Speaker 03 That's the founding principles, which is really swayed.
20:19 Speaker 05 It has completely changed, okay? Eurovision, I don't watch it anymore because it's changed too much. From a village in Derbyshire beating the fuck out of a gay bloke, right? That was the original Eurovision. They chuck a gay bloke out a window and then they all squabble to beat them up, right? It's now unrecognisable.
20:34 Speaker 03 It's got rich roots.
20:35 Speaker 05 It has, yes.
20:36 Speaker 03 It did English culture.
20:37 Speaker 05 And have you, what, did you watch the English version of Eurovision this year? I genuinely, the computer says, no, whatever it's called.
20:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
20:44 Speaker 05 I genuinely wanted to emigrate watching that.
20:46 Speaker 03 Where? To Europe?
20:48 Speaker 05 No, to anywhere. I genuinely wa-
20:50 Speaker 03 Because you were ashamed?
20:51 Speaker 05 I was deeply ashamed that this is our country. I genuinely thought about joining the fucking Unite the Rally, Unite the Kingdom Rally when I saw this.
20:59 Speaker 03 It was bad, but it's better to do silly than serious. Because before we used to get knocked out when we're singing ballads and that's embarrassing to be like, my love and heart will go on.
21:09 Speaker 05 No, I don't think it's embarrassing.
21:10 Speaker 03 This, it's more embarrassing, it's less embarrassing to do weird shit and come last. Because we, we just know we're coming last, but do you think we should take it more seriously?
21:18 Speaker 05 Look, there's nothing wrong with doing the ballads, it's a gay competition.
21:21 Speaker 03 Do you think we should put Harry Styles up and just-
21:23 Speaker 05 Well, why don't we?
21:24 Speaker 03 I don't know why.
21:24 Speaker 05 Why, why don't we just try and win it?
21:26 Speaker 03 Let's just fucking, we'd, we'd clean sweep.
21:28 Speaker 05 Like, we can't win the, the actual World Cup, the football World Cup. We could easily win this.
21:33 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:33 Speaker 05 We're like, we've got Harry Styles. We've got, we've got fucking Paul McCartney, put Paul McCartney on, Elton John, you know.
21:42 Speaker 03 But I guess the truth is, it's like the early World Cup, it's about amateurs, right?
21:46 Speaker 05 Yes, I guess it is.
21:47 Speaker 03 And we've got too much of a professionalised music industry.
21:49 Speaker 05 What is the actual criteria for being in Eurovision?
21:51 Speaker 03 Truth is, the reason why the UK, though we produce the best music by far compared to Europe, we come last in Eurovision every year, what's going on there, the dissonance, is we've got such a professionalised music industry.
22:04 Speaker 05 Yes.
22:04 Speaker 03 And it's so easy, if you're talented, to become professional here, because it's such a rich scene comparatively, right?
22:09 Speaker 05 Yes.
22:10 Speaker 03 That if you're an amateur, you have to be complete crap, right?
22:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
22:14 Speaker 03 Whereas in Romania.
22:16 Speaker 05 Yeah.
22:16 Speaker 03 The greatest singer in Romania is still an amateur.
22:19 Speaker 05 Yes.
22:19 Speaker 03 They put them forward, it means something, but this is very much the tallest.
22:21 Speaker 05 Well, the greatest singer in Romania is probably a sex slave, let's be real, let's be real about it.
22:26 Speaker 03 Thanks for keeping it real.
22:27 Speaker 05 Let's be, let's be real about it, okay? No, the British entry into Eurovision was a disgrace.
22:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
22:32 Speaker 05 And it's the first time I felt like joining a United Kingdom rally, and if they, if they got a vox pop of me.
22:37 Speaker 03 But I don't know if the United Kingdom are talking about Eurovision.
22:39 Speaker 05 No, they're not, they should be, they should be.
22:41 Speaker 03 It might be the opposite vibe to Eurovision.
22:42 Speaker 05 Well, I can't do this at the Palestine march, where's the march for?
22:45 Speaker 03 I don't know if that was the number one issue, I don't think Elon Musk was zooming in to say, your Eurovision entry is a disgrace.
22:51 Speaker 05 It was a disgrace, this is how far this country has fallen. Right?
22:56 Speaker 03 But, you know.
22:56 Speaker 05 Look mum, no computer.
22:58 Speaker 03 I do think there's a lot of links to Eurovision and our approach to it, where we're not taking these tournaments seriously, because we have too high.
23:03 Speaker 05 We should get Paul McCartney out.
23:05 Speaker 03 We have too high opinions of ourselves.
23:07 Speaker 05 Well, we, yes.
23:08 Speaker 03 There will be, what will happen, similar to football, we'll finally take it seriously and we'll get beaten, and it will be a national embarrassment.
23:15 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's why we need to get Paul McCartney out, we just take it seriously.
23:19 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:19 Speaker 05 Win it, and then, then go, oh fuck it, we'll let, look mum, no computer.
23:22 Speaker 03 Medley with Harry Styles, Paul McCartney, Dua Lipa, let's just fucking.
23:25 Speaker 05 Let's just fuck, just fuck off.
23:26 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:26 Speaker 05 We're, we're better than you. Because we need it now, we're in the toilet.
23:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:30 Speaker 05 Imagine if we got, we got Harry Styles, Paul McCartney and Dua Lipa and Elton John out, medley, eight minutes, and then they all just left going fuck off.
23:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, and we, and we made fun of everyone, saying you're never gonna make it.
23:39 Speaker 05 Stupid.
23:40 Speaker 03 Go back to being a dentist, one of them was an assistant for a dentist.
23:43 Speaker 05 And then fucking the Bulgarian.
23:43 Speaker 03 It's like the San Marino football team, they're all, they've got other jobs.
23:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, and the Bulgarian woman's like, rangarangaranga, have you seen them?
23:49 Speaker 03 Yeah, I thought that was quite offensive.
23:51 Speaker 05 I thought it was incredibly offensive.
23:54 Speaker 05 Literally, the winning Eurovision is, it's like the crazy frog if it was Indian or something, it's incredibly offensive. Anyway.
24:00 Speaker 03 Israel came very close to winning.
24:01 Speaker 05 That would be absolutely hilarious.
24:03 Speaker 03 It was so close, because I was watching on the night, and so many boos in the room, but they came second on the audience vote. Swept up in the audience vote. Which is interesting. Well, if I may, I think it might be because there are people who really support Israel, full stop. So they might not even be watching the show, but they want to support Israel, in any case. Just, you know, we did a podcast earlier today, the other podcast we do, and that was the point I made, and now he's just raised it as if it's his own.
24:30 Speaker 05 Right, Charlie, I don't think you should get political, Charlie.
24:32 Speaker 03 I am very political. He just said what I said on another podcast, and it's his own opinion.
24:39 Speaker 05 Shameless. To the person whose opinion you took. If you're doing that, the person whose opinion you took can't be in the room. Yeah? You have to do that on your other podcast, although because he was in the room as well.
24:53 Speaker 03 Yeah, so yeah, go to the smoking area of a pub.
24:55 Speaker 05 Yeah. So, Uruguay, anyway, so this Jules Ramé guy, he's like, let's build a tournament that's professional, will actually pay the players. Fuck off the IOC. And so we get to the first World Cup, which is held in Uruguay, and they'd won the Olympics tournaments in 1930.
25:13 Speaker 03 So that's why Uruguay have four stars on their badge.
25:16 Speaker 05 Yes, Olympics, yeah. Which is like, well, all right.
25:20 Speaker 03 Well, what's the rules then?
25:21 Speaker 05 Well, we can all, just ask me anything.
25:22 Speaker 03 I got fucking, should I put my Frosties 500 metre swimming badge on?
25:25 Speaker 05 Yeah, well, they might as well be swimming badges.
25:26 Speaker 03 I put a star for my swimming badges.
25:28 Speaker 05 Yeah, they might as well be fucking brownie cup badges, you know. Anyway, so 13 teams compete, Egypt were going to compete, they didn't, they missed their boat.
25:36 Speaker 03 Missed the boat, fair enough.
25:37 Speaker 05 Not today. Now.
25:41 Speaker 03 That's a big not today, actually. That's an iconic not today.
25:44 Speaker 05 Not this month.
25:46 Speaker 03 Yeah, in history's great not todays, that must be, that must log.
25:49 Speaker 05 To miss the boat for the first World Cup.
25:50 Speaker 03 We should do that, we should do a list of.
25:51 Speaker 05 History's greatest not todays. So, now, Mexico, the United States, Argentina, Bolivia, Brazil, Chile, Paraguay, Peru.
26:03 Speaker 05 Uruguay, obviously, Belgium, France, Romania, Yugoslavia.
26:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:07 Speaker 05 Now, more European countries are invited, but they all say no.
26:11 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:12 Speaker 05 Why is it in Uruguay? Where is that?
26:14 Speaker 03 Fair enough.
26:14 Speaker 05 They seem, what even is that country?
26:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:18 Speaker 05 And then, it's also in the aftermath of the Great Depression, so Uruguay are offering to pave people's transport.
26:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:25 Speaker 05 But still, people are like, no.
26:26 Speaker 03 Uruguay is still a relatively new country, it's a tiny country as well, but I guess the fact they've won the two Olympics, that's like a huge sense of national pride.
26:33 Speaker 05 Yes.
26:34 Speaker 03 For them.
26:35 Speaker 05 And it must be said that their playing style, the reason they were so good supposedly is that they weren't throwing a ball out of a window and beating everyone up. They were passing it less than.
26:44 Speaker 03 It was revolutionary.
26:45 Speaker 05 Yeah, it was. They were passing it like sideways.
26:47 Speaker 03 Yeah.
26:47 Speaker 05 Incredible. So they had a massive rivalry with Argentina.
26:52 Speaker 03 I mean, South American football rivalries, it does take another level, I think.
26:56 Speaker 05 Yes.
26:56 Speaker 03 And throughout this whole story.
26:58 Speaker 05 Yeah.
26:58 Speaker 03 They have, it's never a laugh.
27:02 Speaker 05 Which is funny when you consider that when we get into the seventies.
27:04 Speaker 03 We've got a lot of rivalries, there's a lot of hooliganism and there's a lot of bad stuff that happens to British fans, but it's still, it's fundamentally having banter, doing coke and pit beers. But here, it's like, they're chopping referees' heads off, they're calling all the other team goat fuckers.
27:19 Speaker 05 Yeah. But also bear in mind that, like, European rivalries, when Germany played Holland in the 1974 World Cup final, I mean, Germany had occupied Holland 20 years previously. 30 years previously, had killed.
27:33 Speaker 03 Holocaust, Holocaust, sorry, that's our patron.
27:35 Speaker 05 That's our patron. They had not, Holocaust be thy name.
27:41 Speaker 05 They'd holocasted them.
27:42 Speaker 03 Yeah.
27:43 Speaker 05 And then they're just like, oh yeah, it's a bit of a ding dong, it's just a game, you know? And these guys are assassinating defenders for scoring an own goal.
27:50 Speaker 03 No one's laughing though, are they?
27:52 Speaker 05 No.
27:52 Speaker 03 It's intense.
27:53 Speaker 05 Anyway, so Uruguay and Argentina hate each other, so they get to the final and they don't trust each other, so they have to, I think in the first half, Argentina play with their ball that they bought.
28:04 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:05 Speaker 05 Like their three.
28:06 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:06 Speaker 05 And Uruguay play with their ball, and Uruguay end up winning.
28:09 Speaker 03 I mean, the rival fans are chucking rocks at the players.
28:12 Speaker 05 Yes. I think at one point-
28:14 Speaker 03 And the players are chucking them back.
28:15 Speaker 05 There's a black player-
28:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:17 Speaker 05 And pretty much early on, everyone, they don't have the most enlightened opinions about black players to this day in Uruguay and Argentina. I would posit.
28:25 Speaker 03 Yeah.
28:25 Speaker 05 But back then in the 30s, they're throwing rocks at the black player, then the black player pick up the stones and throw them back to the crowd. Then also, there's a guy called, like, the maimed one. What's he called? El Manco. The maimed, he'd lost part of his right forearm in an accident with an electric saw, and despite the disability, he scores Uruguay's first ever World Cup goal.
28:45 Speaker 03 Amazing, but do you agree that we should sort of chalk these titles off? This is not a World Cup win.
28:53 Speaker 05 No.
28:53 Speaker 03 If one of your players-
28:54 Speaker 05 Hasn't got an arm.
28:55 Speaker 03 Is disabled.
28:56 Speaker 05 Yeah.
28:57 Speaker 03 It's basically the Paralympics.
28:58 Speaker 05 Yes, it is the Paralympics.
29:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:01 Speaker 05 They win 4-2, and they're the first people to lift the Jules Rimet trophy, which is this 14-inch gold statuette of Nike, the Greek goddess of victory.
29:10 Speaker 03 Nike.
29:11 Speaker 05 Yeah. That's where that comes from.
29:13 Speaker 03 That's where it comes from.
29:14 Speaker 05 So, that's the first World Cup, 1930. Uruguay win, but who gives a shit?
29:20 Speaker 03 Yeah. They do.
29:22 Speaker 05 Yeah, they do, but come on.
29:24 Speaker 03 A big deal.
29:25 Speaker 05 Now things start to get really interesting, okay? Because this is the long road to Qatar, this is the long road to Gianni Infantino.
29:32 Speaker 03 This is long road to "I am gay, I am retarded."
29:34 Speaker 05 Yes, exactly. No, he didn't say that.
29:36 Speaker 03 Sorry, but it's basically, "Today, I am retarded."
29:39 Speaker 05 "Today, I am retard." Amazing. An Italian millionaire who had ginger hair once says that he feels like a disabled gay African. It's amazing, there's a heckle put down, it's pretty good.
29:51 Speaker 03 What?
29:52 Speaker 05 "I think that's racist." "Well, today, I am African." Anyway, so the next World Cup is in 1934.
29:59 Speaker 03 Yeah.
29:59 Speaker 05 Otherwise known as Mussolini's World Cup.
30:01 Speaker 03 Hmm. We haven't jumped into the hot bath, Mussolini.
30:05 Speaker 05 It's a fucking hot bath, huh? Delicious bath.
30:08 Speaker 03 We're saving it.
30:08 Speaker 05 We will be doing Mussolini, but he's the first, he's the compootra mother of fascism.
30:13 Speaker 03 And though he's a fascist leader, because he's got an Italian name, hard to take him seriously, he does sound like a type of pasta.
30:17 Speaker 05 He does.
30:18 Speaker 03 Mussolini.
30:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, everyone does.
30:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, "tomato alla Mussolini."
30:21 Speaker 05 Mussolini fish pasta.
30:22 Speaker 03 Delicious.
30:22 Speaker 05 Yeah. Mussolini, the fascist patient zero, the sourdough starter of fascism.
30:29 Speaker 03 Which he needs to get, you know, put some respect on his name.
30:31 Speaker 05 Yeah, yeah, people don't really-
30:32 Speaker 03 People forget, because of how much the Italians fucked it, he'll forget that he was the first guy to ever do it.
30:37 Speaker 05 He wore-
30:38 Speaker 03 He didn't have anyone to look up to.
30:39 Speaker 05 He ran so Hitler could walk.
30:42 Speaker 03 He walked so Hitler could run.
30:44 Speaker 05 He walked so Hitler could go step.
30:45 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah.
30:46 Speaker 05 Yeah. Mussolini's the GOAT, the original. Okay. Now, Mussolini, basically, I don't know how he gets to the World Cup from FIFA. But when we're talking about FIFA, it's this corrupt organisation.
30:59 Speaker 03 I don't think anyone really wants it at this time. No one knows what it is.
31:01 Speaker 05 But he does, because he's like.
31:02 Speaker 03 He's a visionary.
31:03 Speaker 05 He is a visionary.
31:06 Speaker 05 He's like, I can see that hosting a tournament would put Italian fascism on the map.
31:12 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:12 Speaker 05 And it would be a great proponent.
31:14 Speaker 03 Today, I am fascist.
31:15 Speaker 05 Today, I am fascist. Today, I am Nazi.
31:21 Speaker 05 So 34 World Cup, that had qualification for the first time, 32 nations are competing. There are no group stages. So it's just, you lose, fuck off.
31:32 Speaker 03 Fuck off.
31:33 Speaker 05 So like the US, the US came all the way over by boat, opening match against Italy, 7-1 loss. Back home, fuck off, out the window, see you later. Now.
31:42 Speaker 03 So we can't see any footage of this, right?
31:44 Speaker 05 No.
31:45 Speaker 03 This is too early. We really don't know what sort of.
31:47 Speaker 05 Well, Italy at this time are supposedly a very good team. But Mussolini doesn't want to let any chance of him not winning the World Cup.
31:55 Speaker 03 Yeah.
31:55 Speaker 05 Like, go to waste. So he basically, he rigs the entire tournament. So all the rest, he's got like, he makes it, he thinks that full stadiums will show how good fascism is.
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33:33 Speaker 05 So, there's like, um, foreign, so foreign players are banned from the Serie A season. And then what he does is he takes South American players who are really good and he's, he basically renationalizes them. So they're called the Odeon.
33:46 Speaker 03 There's a lot of Italians in Argentina.
33:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
33:49 Speaker 03 Messi's an Italian Argentine.
33:51 Speaker 05 This is, this is, this is pre-World War II. So this is fine.
33:54 Speaker 03 Fine. So it's fine, yeah, fine immigration.
33:56 Speaker 05 It's fine. If you see an Argentinian with a German name, like who's that Argentinian footballer who's got a German, like, um, Reichardt or something?
34:03 Speaker 03 Yeah.
34:04 Speaker 05 You're just like, right, okay, well, what's your grandad, you know, anyway? They were, they were managed by a guy called Vittorio Pozzo, who was a kind of supposedly like a early visionary managerial genius.
34:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
34:15 Speaker 05 He basically was a fascist on the training pitch.
34:20 Speaker 03 Well, this is what's weird. I've always found this weird about Italian football. Maybe it comes from this. Is it doesn't make sense that Italian football culture, Italian football leagues are all about defence and unity and structure. The Italian footballer, they prioritise the defender above all else.
34:36 Speaker 05 Yes.
34:36 Speaker 03 If you think of Italians, you think of Chiellini, you think of
34:38 Speaker 05 Catena.
34:39 Speaker 03 Cannavaro, Maldini, you think, those are the great Italian players. But why, you don't think of Italia, Italy as a defensive nation?
34:45 Speaker 05 Yes, you do. Yes, you do.
34:47 Speaker 03 Why?
34:48 Speaker 05 If you just eat Italian food for a week.
34:51 Speaker 03 Right.
34:52 Speaker 05 You're blocked up. Nothing's coming out.
34:54 Speaker 03 You're saying because of the pasta?
34:56 Speaker 05 Nothing's getting through there.
34:57 Speaker 03 That's why they don't have pacey wingers?
34:58 Speaker 05 Yeah, exactly. You've got fucking-
35:02 Speaker 03 It's fat mafiosos.
35:03 Speaker 05 You've got lasagna in your stomach, nothing's getting through there.
35:05 Speaker 03 I see.
35:05 Speaker 05 Nothing's coming out. Uh, no, yes, you're right.
35:08 Speaker 03 It's a weird clash though, because you would think it would be much more free flowing and sort of like loose and like emotional.
35:14 Speaker 05 No, but it's shithousery. It's diving. It's not taking responsibility for anything.
35:18 Speaker 03 Okay.
35:19 Speaker 05 It is Italian, you know, the catenaccio, which is the, that's Arigot Saki in the eighties.
35:24 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:24 Speaker 05 He takes, he takes Cruyff's total football and makes it boring.
35:27 Speaker 03 But it doesn't feel like an Italian thing to do, to take a Dutch thing and make it boring. It's upside down. How are the Dutch total free flowing football and the Italians are rigid boring football?
35:38 Speaker 05 It makes, it makes sense when you say it like that, but the Italians will do anything to win.
35:43 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:43 Speaker 05 Okay.
35:44 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:44 Speaker 05 Which is why they're obsessed with defence.
35:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:46 Speaker 05 And strength and cheating.
35:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
35:49 Speaker 05 Right? Uh, because this is born in Mussolini's World Cup.
35:53 Speaker 03 I guess the Netherlands is a lot of weed. It's very like, it's free love.
35:56 Speaker 05 By the seventies, Cruyff's, you know. So, uh, Mussolini says the Jules Ramé Trophy's not big enough and commissions a Copa del Duque, which is a like six times the size, like life size trophy. Can you get a photo up, Charlie?
36:14 Speaker 03 I mean, it's the links to the modern day though. It's just, nothing's changed.
36:17 Speaker 05 No.
36:17 Speaker 03 Trump getting a massive fucking peace award from FIFA. It's just, it's the exact same shit.
36:23 Speaker 05 It was always this corrupt, guys. The World Cup was always in the sewer.
36:27 Speaker 03 That's kind of awesome.
36:27 Speaker 05 Right. I mean, it's a nice trophy.
36:28 Speaker 03 Yes.
36:29 Speaker 05 It was six times taller than the Jules Ramé Trophy.
36:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
36:32 Speaker 05 Uh, now, one of the great teams of the era somehow are Austrian.
36:38 Speaker 03 Hmm.
36:39 Speaker 05 The Austrian Wunder team of the thirties, uh, they were kind of, there was this sort of-
36:46 Speaker 03 But was it coming off the back of the Viennese coffee house sort of liberal?
36:49 Speaker 05 What I was saying was that, that, so Austria at this point, this is three years pre-anchilis, four years pre-anchilis.
36:55 Speaker 03 Right.
36:56 Speaker 05 It's a difficult time for Austria. Okay?
36:58 Speaker 03 Who are we?
36:59 Speaker 05 Who, who are we? Are we just German?
37:02 Speaker 03 Yes.
37:02 Speaker 05 Uh, yes, you are. As we've always said, we are pre-anchilis, we are pro-anchilis as a pod. The Anschilis was the greatest thing the Nazis ever did.
37:10 Speaker 03 Yeah, we both agreed that if Hitler stopped the Anschilis, what a great-
37:15 Speaker 05 Perfect, perfect film. What a great guy.
37:16 Speaker 03 Surely he would be remembered relatively well.
37:19 Speaker 05 One of the finest politicians that's ever lived. You know, he did what he came-
37:23 Speaker 03 Because the latest stuff, the experiments.
37:25 Speaker 05 Hitler's early stuff was fine. Okay?
37:29 Speaker 05 When he started fucking kidaying it on the Eastern Front, alright?
37:33 Speaker 03 Bit weird for me, bit too rich for my blood.
37:36 Speaker 05 Whatever happened to just guitars, man? And melody, yeah? The melody of Kristallnacht. Anyway, yeah, Austria obviously had the Vietnamese.
37:46 Speaker 03 The melody of Kristallnacht, no, we're talking about the angst. You snuck that in there.
37:52 Speaker 05 That's what I mean, is that you can't distance yourself when you don't fucking pick up.
37:55 Speaker 03 Oh, the golden age of Kristallnacht.
37:57 Speaker 05 Yeah.
37:59 Speaker 05 Anyway, that's Pablo Honey.
38:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
38:01 Speaker 05 Anyway, Austria had obviously had the Vietnamese Mozart opera or that being the high point of culture. And then it was all kind of gone into the gutter. So the one thing they had at this time was this amazing football team. And again, it's the 30s, so how good at football are they?
38:18 Speaker 03 They're wearing scaffolding boots, probably. They're wearing a three-piece suit.
38:21 Speaker 05 Exactly. Well, the referees were generally wearing three-piece suits.
38:25 Speaker 05 Hugo Meisel is the architect, he's the kind of Austrian Guardiola.
38:29 Speaker 03 We look like two players up front, this is what they're wearing.
38:32 Speaker 05 This is the starting strike force.
38:34 Speaker 03 This is the football boots.
38:37 Speaker 05 Him, Fussballer, the player with the brain. So he was the visionary coach who created the Wunder team. They were unbeaten between 31 and 32. How many games did they play? Don't know. So there's a guy up front called Matthias Sindelar, who was like the Austrian Ronaldo of the 30s. I'm listening.
38:59 Speaker 05 The paper-thin man, right? He had a slight build and he was an incredible goal scorer, supposedly. But they were, they probably peaked just before the World Cup.
39:10 Speaker 03 The team is credited as being the first national team to play total football. So I guess that is also coming from the liberalism of Vienna, right? That's what's feeding into it.
39:19 Speaker 05 Well, it's also, I guess Austria's a Catholic country, it aspires to beauty in a way Germany, the Protestant stone. But also, this total football in the 30s is just passing it sideways.
39:28 Speaker 03 Yes.
39:29 Speaker 05 Do you know what I mean?
39:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
39:30 Speaker 05 That like if we're in the stands in the 30s.
39:32 Speaker 03 Still someone has to think of that.
39:33 Speaker 05 No, I know.
39:33 Speaker 03 Someone needs to be off their head on drugs.
39:35 Speaker 05 Calling it total football.
39:35 Speaker 03 You need to be off your head on drugs to come up with that.
39:37 Speaker 05 What are you doing? Get rid of it. Hoof it up there. Are you gay? Why are you passing it backwards?
39:43 Speaker 03 It's easy to see that as simple now, but at the time, you had to have an almost ayahuasca trip to see that you could pass it.
39:49 Speaker 05 Whoa, hang on, hang on. You can go another way apart from, there's other directions on the pitch. No, but I would say calling it total football cheapens total football. Which is, I love original total football. I mean, the Swedish right back at the first Cruyff turn is one of the greatest photos in history.
40:06 Speaker 03 What, because he's never?
40:07 Speaker 05 Have you seen, he's still facing the way Cruyff was.
40:09 Speaker 03 Full body cast afterwards.
40:12 Speaker 05 Genuinely. Cruyff turns him.
40:13 Speaker 03 Douglas Alec Hume.
40:14 Speaker 05 Yeah.
40:14 Speaker 03 Alec Douglas Hume. Which way is around is it?
40:17 Speaker 05 Alec Douglas Hume.
40:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:18 Speaker 05 Look, he's still, he's like a computer player.
40:20 Speaker 03 Yeah.
40:20 Speaker 05 Like it's like a video game where the guy just sort of runs into the.
40:23 Speaker 03 Cheating. That's cheating.
40:25 Speaker 05 So now Austria, the Wunder team, they don't do very well in 34. I think they get to third place playoff. We should talk about the actual tournament itself because Mussolini, there's like a referee who's Swiss, I think, I can't remember what he's called. He basically, at one point in the, in all the Italy games, oh, there's a Swedish referee called Ivan Ekland. Does he have dinner with Mussolini the night before the final? And then in the game, in the game, he intercepts a pass from the opposition that were through on goal and just passed it to one of the Italians. I mean, it's awesome.
41:04 Speaker 03 But it's that 12th man.
41:07 Speaker 05 Yes, it is.
41:07 Speaker 03 It's the tactics. It's like.
41:08 Speaker 05 Literally a 12th man.
41:09 Speaker 03 I mean, Guardiola does that thing where he tries to have an overload, right? So it makes you feel like you're always playing with an extra player.
41:14 Speaker 05 Who's using the referee then?
41:16 Speaker 03 This is another, you know, I think it was someone, Mourinho might even said eventually the goalkeeper will be an outfield player.
41:23 Speaker 05 Yeah.
41:23 Speaker 03 Like just have that extra overload.
41:25 Speaker 05 Eventually the referee.
41:26 Speaker 03 Use the referee.
41:27 Speaker 05 Take the ref out for dinner the night before.
41:29 Speaker 03 Yeah. You know, it means you can overload the box.
41:33 Speaker 05 Yeah.
41:33 Speaker 03 You send the goalkeeper up, send the referee up.
41:35 Speaker 05 If I can get the referee up there in the corner. Activate the referee.
41:41 Speaker 05 So yeah, the even Ivan Ekland, he not only did he.
41:47 Speaker 03 I guess this is so before VAR.
41:49 Speaker 05 Yeah, I mean.
41:50 Speaker 03 I mean, this is like.
41:51 Speaker 05 We should place this actually.
41:52 Speaker 03 You're all standing in the stands. And it's normally Olympic stadiums, you're so far from the pitch.
41:58 Speaker 05 Yeah.
41:58 Speaker 03 You can't see anything, nor can anyone.
42:00 Speaker 05 No one has glasses, I mean, no one can see anything. So, anyway.
42:06 Speaker 03 You can get away with fucking anything.
42:08 Speaker 05 So when Italy beat Austria in the semis, Eklund allowed a highly controversial goal where the Italian forward bundled the Austrian goalkeeper into the back of the net, while ruling out multiple Austrian attacks for offside.
42:18 Speaker 03 Right.
42:18 Speaker 05 So he had like ghost offside, he was like, yeah, that's offside.
42:20 Speaker 03 Yeah, why not?
42:21 Speaker 05 There was even.
42:22 Speaker 03 Did he even have a linesman at this point?
42:23 Speaker 05 One of, one of the goals had been like a Maradona-esque solo goal and the referee ruled it offside. There'd been no passing, he's went, that's offside. Pretty awesome.
42:32 Speaker 03 I kind of rate him.
42:33 Speaker 05 Anyway.
42:34 Speaker 03 Shout out Eklund, friend of the pod.
42:36 Speaker 05 So.
42:37 Speaker 03 I mean, a referee playing for the other team, you've got, you've got to respect that.
42:40 Speaker 05 Yeah.
42:40 Speaker 03 That's legendary behaviour.
42:41 Speaker 05 So Mussolini, so Italy eventually win the World Cup. Partly, they, I mean, I think they were quite a good team, but also Mussolini just rigged it. So, anyway.
42:50 Speaker 03 Who knows? Once again, we need to strike all these World Cups off. It's a load of bollocks.
42:54 Speaker 05 The first World Cup that really someone won was 66.
42:58 Speaker 05 We'll get to that next episode. Anyway, so he, they win, Mussolini hands over the World Cup and the Coppa del, the massive World Cup that he got made, it was bigger.
43:07 Speaker 03 It's sort of trophy and larger. It's like, it's like a, it's like a trophy pump.
43:14 Speaker 05 He asked the players what they wanted as a reward for winning, and one of them said that he desired nothing more than a signed photograph.
43:20 Speaker 05 So they all, they all give him that.
43:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:22 Speaker 05 Some of the referees were basically then banned from ever refereeing again, because they obviously taken bribes.
43:26 Speaker 03 But by Mussolini?
43:27 Speaker 05 No, by FIFA.
43:28 Speaker 03 Okay.
43:29 Speaker 05 But again, FIFA is basically totally in the pocket of Mussolini.
43:32 Speaker 03 Of course.
43:32 Speaker 05 So it's, it's the first time a tournament's been taken by a country and gone, well, we're just going to use this to show.
43:37 Speaker 03 FIFA has not gone downhill. It's not, it's never, ever been anywhere, anything but completely corrupt.
43:42 Speaker 05 No.
43:43 Speaker 03 Semplata is the. He's corrupt leader of FIFA.
43:46 Speaker 05 But Infantino is finally just saying it.
43:49 Speaker 03 What?
43:50 Speaker 05 I am, I am gay. I am migrant worker. Fuck off.
43:55 Speaker 05 I don't care.
43:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
43:57 Speaker 05 Anyway, so, uh, weeks after the 1934 World Cup, the Austrian Chancellor is assassinated by the Nazis, which starts the Anschluss. I did not know that he was assassinated by the Nazis.
44:09 Speaker 03 I thought it was pretty joyous.
44:11 Speaker 05 No, I still think the Anschluss is fine.
44:12 Speaker 03 I'm sure there's no nuance there.
44:14 Speaker 05 No, I think he needed to go. He needed to make way for the Anschluss to happen.
44:17 Speaker 03 It's what the people wanted.
44:18 Speaker 05 Yeah, whatever, whatever it takes for Anschluss.
44:21 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:21 Speaker 05 That's my political principles.
44:22 Speaker 03 There's a weird t-shirt that you wear. It's like, it's quite confusing.
44:25 Speaker 05 Yeah, the pro Palestine rally, they really didn't know what to make of that.
44:30 Speaker 05 So, two years later.
44:32 Speaker 03 Unite the kingdoms of Austria.
44:33 Speaker 05 Of Austria and Germany.
44:36 Speaker 05 I'm just there with a half and half Austria Germany flag. Why have you all got Union Jacks?
44:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
44:43 Speaker 05 So, two years later, Germany hosts the Olympics, the Berlin Olympics, um, probably my favourite Olympics.
44:49 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah?
44:50 Speaker 05 Yeah. Cause there's more going on.
44:52 Speaker 03 Right. Yeah. It's an iconic one.
44:54 Speaker 05 Yeah, it is. Yeah. Uh, now, they let football back into the Olympics in 36. And then, uh, they decide, when do they decide where it's gonna go? Oh, just before the Olympics, they decide that it's gonna go to France for 1938, which is a snub to the Nazis. Now, it must be said, the Nazis, were always trying to get FIFA. They wanted to be in control of FIFA.
45:24 Speaker 03 Right.
45:24 Speaker 05 Because it was just like a Swiss thing. Um, what have you found, Charlie?
45:28 Speaker 02 I was just thinking if Hitler was any good at keeping up his.
45:30 Speaker 05 No historical record of Hitler ever playing football or attempting to keep up his.
45:33 Speaker 02 So we don't know.
45:35 Speaker 03 Maybe that's why he did this off he did.
45:37 Speaker 05 He did, yes.
45:38 Speaker 03 Because he was never, he was picked last for the football team, you know, that can often lead to a lot of people wanting to prove themselves in later life. Do you know, when you're picked last, maybe that was it. Maybe his lack of skills. If he was better at football, maybe.
45:48 Speaker 05 Were you good at football as a kid?
45:49 Speaker 03 I was good, yeah. I'm naturally bad, but I played a lot to the point where I'm good.
45:54 Speaker 05 Right.
45:55 Speaker 03 But not, not due to any sort of natural skill.
45:57 Speaker 05 Inherent skill. Whereas I was like a, I was like a, a super sub, obviously, an impact sub.
46:04 Speaker 03 Heavy impact.
46:05 Speaker 05 Exactly. Well, yeah, because I was also, I was, I said.
46:07 Speaker 03 You're like a JVC.
46:09 Speaker 05 That photo of me with Emma Watson, imagine me that size, coming on at the 60 minute mark, on the left wing, wearing Adidas cream predators.
46:20 Speaker 03 You were a cream predator.
46:21 Speaker 05 Because I, I, I am to this day a cream predator.
46:26 Speaker 05 A cream bun predator.
46:30 Speaker 05 Yeah, I'm a cream bun predator.
46:31 Speaker 03 You don't want to be a ball of cream around this predator. You're not safe.
46:34 Speaker 05 No. I was a cream bun predator, wearing cream predators on the left wing.
46:41 Speaker 05 But I was also right footed. I was like a fat Joe Cole, right? And so I, you know, people, I'd come on the last 20 minutes of the game, I'd cause havoc.
46:49 Speaker 03 Sloppy Joe's Cole.
46:50 Speaker 05 Sloppy Joe Cole.
46:53 Speaker 05 Right? They had no idea what to do with me. I was a complete wild card. I was like a rhino charging down there. I had about three or four charges before I was too tired.
47:00 Speaker 03 So I was being incredibly tactically used.
47:01 Speaker 05 Yes. With the right coach, I was devastating. If, if you were starting me, I would have to come off before half time. Okay? I was an impact sub. I was like a fat soul shah. Okay? I was like Ollie Gunnar's old jar of pickles.
47:18 Speaker 03 Bowly.
47:20 Speaker 05 Anyway.
47:22 Speaker 03 Ollie Gunnar Cole's law.
47:24 Speaker 05 Ollie Gunnar Cole's law, yeah.
47:28 Speaker 05 But I was a super sub, right? Anyway, so I scored a free kick as well by cream predators.
47:35 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:35 Speaker 05 That's really, really fat guy. My point is I had inherent skill.
47:39 Speaker 03 Right.
47:39 Speaker 05 I was hamstrung by the size of my hamstrings.
47:42 Speaker 03 Right.
47:43 Speaker 05 Yes, but Hitler wanted the FIFA because they wanted to glorify the Nazi regime. Same way it wants to put it in the Olympics, right? So we'll get into it actually just after 38 World Cup, but the whole, there's an amazing counterfactual about what happens if Hitler took FIFA.
47:57 Speaker 03 Yeah.
47:57 Speaker 05 But anyway, we'll get into that.
47:58 Speaker 03 What is that?
47:59 Speaker 05 Well, it's a World Cup which is played along racial lines.
48:02 Speaker 03 Sure. Amazing counterfactual.
48:05 Speaker 05 Well, it's quite funny.
48:07 Speaker 03 Wait, wait. The white team versus the...
48:10 Speaker 05 Well, yeah.
48:10 Speaker 03 Oh, the teams are racial.
48:11 Speaker 05 Yeah. So it's not the World Cup in terms of nations.
48:16 Speaker 03 Right, right.
48:16 Speaker 05 It's the World Cup of races. It's the race cup.
48:19 Speaker 03 I mean, you'd throw it on if no one else was...
48:22 Speaker 05 I'd watch it.
48:23 Speaker 03 Yeah.
48:23 Speaker 05 I'd watch it. I'd bet on it. It's harmless. It's not harmful.
48:27 Speaker 03 It's not harmful. It's very harmful.
48:28 Speaker 05 Anyway, it's pretty harmful. It's pretty toxic stuff. Now, so yeah, 38 World Cup was in the shadow of the Anschluss. So Austria had this great team and then, what was that? Was that your...? Okay.
48:46 Speaker 03 That sounded like a cat.
48:47 Speaker 05 That sounded like a fart.
48:48 Speaker 03 No, it sounded... Meow. I heard a cat.
48:51 Speaker 05 It's a female researcher.
48:52 Speaker 03 Meow.
48:53 Speaker 05 Meow. Just meowed at the back of the room.
48:57 Speaker 05 I said Austria had a great team and she meowed. Christ. Do you want a can of tuna or something?
49:04 Speaker 03 Meow.
49:05 Speaker 05 Anyway, sorry about that. Austria had a great team and, but then they had, they were, they were made as one. They were made, they made it to Germany. So they had to, suddenly there was a, they were, they were no longer Austrian. They were Germany. Had they ever been Austrian is another question. And then they had to cancel the World Cup enrolment. The Austrian Football Federation was dissolved overnight.
49:28 Speaker 03 I'd love to dissolve something.
49:29 Speaker 05 Well, that's like Gaddafi campaigning for Switzerland to be dissolved.
49:31 Speaker 03 Right. Just dissolve it.
49:32 Speaker 05 Awesome. Absolutely awesome.
49:34 Speaker 03 Let's just dissolve that.
49:34 Speaker 05 My son's beaten up a Swiss bellboy.
49:37 Speaker 03 Let's dissolve.
49:37 Speaker 05 I go to the UN, abolish Switzerland.
49:39 Speaker 03 Yeah.
49:39 Speaker 05 Abolish it. Has there ever been a father that's done more for their son? I aspire to be the Colonel Gaddafi when I become a parent. Anyway. So he dissolves the Football Federation, Austrian footballers now have to play for Germany. So they come up with this quota system where like a certain amount of Austrians have to play in the German team. But it completely handcaps how good the Austrians were. And then, what's he called, Sindelar, that the Austrian striker? He, so he's, there's a friendly between Austria and Germany, right? This may be after the World Cup, I can't remember. There's a friendly, the Austrians were sort of told not to like score to embarrass the Nazi hierarchy.
50:23 Speaker 05 You know, Hitler's in the box, right? Sindelar scores and then he runs over and he does like a, you know, Adebayor running the length of the pitch? He does that to Hitler and he's like, uh.
50:37 Speaker 03 Yeah.
50:38 Speaker 05 Six months later, he's found dead in his hotel room.
50:42 Speaker 03 You can't be doing that to Hitler though.
50:43 Speaker 05 Don't do that to Hitler.
50:44 Speaker 03 Don't be like, uh.
50:46 Speaker 05 Yeah, you can't do that, right? So him and his girlfriend, they die, they're just found dead one morning. And then they officially, it was carbon dioxide poisoning, but the Nazis destroyed all the records. So everyone's like, oh.
50:59 Speaker 03 Well, maybe it was, I trust them.
51:01 Speaker 05 I mean, yeah, but to be fair, how many guys, how many, how many people the Nazis killed with carbon dioxide poisoning? Do you know what I mean? You, you could frame.
51:08 Speaker 03 What?
51:08 Speaker 05 The whole Holocaust as carbon dioxide poisoning.
51:11 Speaker 03 So, yeah.
51:11 Speaker 05 You could.
51:12 Speaker 03 You could.
51:14 Speaker 05 Anyway, the 38 World Cup is, is kind of operating in the shadow of the coming war in Europe. Italy win again because Mussolini says, the motto for the World Cup is win or die.
51:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
51:30 Speaker 05 They win and then there's a, they beat Hungary. Were they good at that point? Hungary were good at some point.
51:37 Speaker 03 Yeah, fucking what to say, push guys.
51:39 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's the 50s though. Hungary's keeper quipped, I may have let in four goals, but at least I saved the other team's lives. The Italian players were again asked what they would like for winning the World Cup. They asked for lifetime rail passes, which they were granted.
51:50 Speaker 03 Does it work then, like win or die? Seems to.
51:54 Speaker 05 Yeah.
51:56 Speaker 03 Southgate.
51:57 Speaker 05 Well, I suppose Mussolini is the opposite of Southgate, isn't he?
52:01 Speaker 03 Southgate's trying to win through friendship.
52:03 Speaker 05 Yeah.
52:03 Speaker 03 But we've always fall short.
52:05 Speaker 05 Southgate's going on the fucking Jake Humphrey podcast about mental health.
52:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's like, you need, it's a game of inches.
52:10 Speaker 05 Yeah.
52:11 Speaker 03 And I'm sure you get more than an inch. You're saying, if you don't do it, I'll kill you and your family.
52:14 Speaker 05 Now, what becomes very interesting is when World War Two breaks out, Hitler obviously conquers Paris, June 1940. They want FIFA, right? But FIFA are not hiding out in Switzerland, which are neutral. So they registered their offers in Switzerland.
52:30 Speaker 03 And it's still there, right?
52:31 Speaker 05 It's still there. And obviously, that's, that's, that's kind of like corruption ground zero.
52:35 Speaker 03 Sure.
52:36 Speaker 05 But that is part of the reason that they, my point is here, their corruption kind of saves them.
52:43 Speaker 03 Right.
52:43 Speaker 05 Because Hitler's trying to get FIFA. The Nazis want to be in control of FIFA. They're looking for it. If they had got control of FIFA, when in 45, the Americans destroy, you know, the country, then FIFA would have just been eradicated as a Nazi institution and there would be no World Cup. So it's quite interesting.
53:04 Speaker 03 Yeah, it's true, actually. It would have been tainted.
53:06 Speaker 05 So there's a guy called Dr. Ivo Schrieker, who I think.
53:10 Speaker 03 Sounds like a good guy.
53:11 Speaker 05 Yes, Dr. Ivo Schrieker is Rime's like second in command in FIFA. He hides the World Cup. Is it him or is it someone else? Someone else has the World Cup. The World Cup trophy is in Italy because they're the reigning champions. He hides it in a shoebox under his bed. Ottorino Barassi hides it under his bed and then the Nazis are looking for the trophy. Because they're, at this point, they're selling off the entirety of Europe. Göring's looking for it.
53:41 Speaker 03 Yeah.
53:42 Speaker 05 He hides it under a shoebox and then it gets taken to Switzerland after the war. He smuggles the trophy out of the bank where it's being kept, took it home, hid it in a shoebox under his bed. Until 1950, when he was able to hand it over to the Brazilian Federation.
53:57 Speaker 05 So if, if the Nazis had taken control of FIFA, they had plans for a World Cup, an Axis World Cup.
54:04 Speaker 03 Oh, so like Japan versus.
54:06 Speaker 05 Japan.
54:07 Speaker 03 Germany, Italy.
54:08 Speaker 05 Yeah. I guess the Axis World Cup is the opposite of the Paralympics.
54:14 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:15 Speaker 05 Yeah.
54:16 Speaker 03 What is in disabled people have been sent to camps?
54:20 Speaker 05 Well, yeah, you could put it like that. I just mean in terms of like.
54:23 Speaker 03 They're not training camps.
54:25 Speaker 05 No, they're not training camps. It's like they're, so it's, you know, it's the Aryan World Cup.
54:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
54:31 Speaker 05 So they would say it's the opposite of the Paralympics.
54:33 Speaker 03 Interesting. Modern Nazis, sorry to go off topic, but it's on the Nazis, so it's still on topic. Their view of disabilities is like something that needs to be eradicated, right? What would they view with the new current mental health world of ADHD, depression, anxiety?
54:48 Speaker 05 There wouldn't be many people knowing about that.
54:50 Speaker 03 Exactly. I don't know how, at what point, you know, there's that thing that like V can say, where do you draw the line?
54:56 Speaker 05 Yes, bees.
54:57 Speaker 03 You know, at what point horses, dogs, it's basically that with disabilities.
55:01 Speaker 05 If Nazis were in power, there'd be none of these fucking rainbow lanyards. You'd be like, I'm fine, actually.
55:06 Speaker 03 I'm fine, I'm brilliant.
55:07 Speaker 05 I see things clearly. Yep, I can focus 100%.
55:10 Speaker 03 Let's just get rid of the ADHD. Everyone with ADHD, let's get, let's get rid of it. It's genetic.
55:15 Speaker 05 Personally, I'd like a society where everyone who is, there's that middle band of disabilities, you know, ADHD, autism, they're gone. So you're either, you're either normal or.
55:27 Speaker 03 Cause it was much simpler.
55:28 Speaker 05 Fucked.
55:30 Speaker 03 Cause you can tell someone who's fucked.
55:31 Speaker 05 Yeah, it's binary.
55:33 Speaker 03 Right. So, cause it'd be, it's the blurred lines.
55:37 Speaker 05 I can't handle blurred lines.
55:38 Speaker 03 It's Muller in between the lines.
55:39 Speaker 05 I can't handle that. 442.
55:43 Speaker 05 All right.
55:45 Speaker 05 Normal, fucked.
55:46 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:47 Speaker 05 Easy. Can you park there? Yes.
55:50 Speaker 03 Clearly.
55:51 Speaker 05 Clearly. Can I park there? No. Yeah. No lanyards.
55:56 Speaker 03 Yeah.
55:57 Speaker 05 Anyway, a world without lanyards.
55:59 Speaker 03 You wouldn't need a lanyard.
56:00 Speaker 05 A world without lanyards. The Finn Taylor story.
56:02 Speaker 03 Yeah.
56:03 Speaker 05 Please vote for me. So the World Cup is essentially saved by this guy Baracini and Schrieker and Rimet. Because if and ever so say the Nazis have found it, it would have been destroyed and people would have destroyed. And so it can restart after the war. Is the next one in Brazil?
56:23 Speaker 05 It can restart after the war in Brazil, which is where we will leave this part. And in our next episode, we will deal with the rise of Pele with the 1966 tournament. You know, the purest World Cup there ever was.
56:40 Speaker 03 Sort of the birth of televised World Cups being a big thing.
56:44 Speaker 05 Yes.
56:44 Speaker 03 And like, it's kind of now the players are coming into people we actually know. It's now just starting to come into kind of actual.
56:52 Speaker 05 We'll be joined by the upshot, who are other scholars who do research and call people paedophiles. Anyway, if you're a patron, you get all four parts of this series at once. And we are bonus, what are our bonuses this, are we talking about hooliganism? We will be commenting live on the biggest game, the big game, the big match. The grudge match of Switzerland versus Bosnia and Herzegovina. Okay, we will be commentating on it live.
57:21 Speaker 03 So I guess they can put it, turn the mute the TV.
57:25 Speaker 05 Mute the TV and then put us on.
57:28 Speaker 03 Right. And hopefully we won't be out of sync.
57:30 Speaker 05 Yes. That I can tell you now that game will be nil nil. So we'll have to come up with a lot of stuff to talk about, but we could get, we could get on to Bosnia and history as I've long wanted to. Anyway, that's on the Patreon, we'll be doing that this, this fortnight. We'll be joined by the upshot next episode and we'll see you for Pele and Bobby Moore at all next part from all of us here.
57:50 Speaker 03 Goodbye.
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Previous Why I’m No Longer Talking To Black People About Race (With We Saw That)| The White Slave Trade (Part 2) Next Pickles The Dog Didn’t Kill Himself (with The Upshot!) | The History of The World Cup (Part 2/4) Page updated October 30, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated