From 10 Drones a Month to Nearly 100,000 — Inside Ukraine's Largest Drone Manufacturer | Marko Kushnir, General Cherry

In 2023, General Cherry started making 10 drones a month. Today they're approaching 100,000. Marko Kushnir, communications director of one of Ukraine's top-five drone manufacturers, joins Craig Smith for one of the most operationally specific conversations available about what drone warfare looks like at industrial scale, from the daily feedback loops with front-line units that drive product iteration, to the $2,000 interceptor drone that can destroy a $100,000 Shahed, to the on-device AI targeting model that guides an interceptor to impact at 70% accuracy after the operator activates it and steps back. The conversation's most important insights are structural rather than technical. Marko describes the fundamental asymmetry of the conflict with unusual precision: Ukraine's decentralized, startup-driven ecosystem produces new technologies faster than Russia's command economy, but Russia's vertical industrial structure copies and scales those technologies faster than Ukraine can stay ahead. He also expresses genuine alarm about fully autonomous AI drones, not from an ethical standpoint but from a practical one: any autonomous capability Ukraine deploys will be in Russian hands within weeks, making full autonomy a danger Ukraine would share immediately with its enemy. The episode closes with his most far-reaching argument: just as the internet era created a cybersecurity industry that every organization eventually had to build, the drone era is now beginning, and every government, police force, and major corporation will soon need a drone security department to function safely in a world where drones are as common as smartphones. Subscribe to Eye on A. I. for weekly conversations with the people building and deploying the future of AI.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  If we will have some kind of fully autonomous system, it will be very scary. Because you don't need other human to kill the human, so it's very scary. Because you just need a robot, you just need a drone.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  You started manufacturing in 2023. Today is the majority of drones on the battlefield. Are they manufactured in Ukraine? And where are you in that group of manufacturers?

• 0:25Speaker 00

  I think that Ukraine is better in constructing something new, something new technologies. But Russia, of course, is better in the US in scaling of these technologies. Drones is not only about targeting. We understand drones and know how to operate it and we know how to destroy it. So we are open to different collaborations in different ways.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Introduce yourself and explain the company you work for and the drone you produce and how important it is in the current dialogue with Russia.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  My name is Marco. I'm a director of communications of one of the biggest drone producers in Ukraine. Our company called General Cherry. We produce different type of drones.

• 1:16Speaker 00

  Different products like from ordinary chemical ZFPV from seven to fifteen inches.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Seven to fifteen inches.

• 1:25Speaker 00

  Inches, yeah. And we, but of course we have a flagrant products, flagship products, products like interceptors. So here is one of our flagship, it's interceptor General Cherry Bullet. It's a strategic interceptor for anti-shacket work. So we destroy the Russian shackets or so-called Geron. Geron is drawn by this drone. But we have different type of interceptors. We have tactical interceptors. It's like General Cherry Air. It's interceptor for different drones who worked on frontline.

• 2:06Speaker 00

  Like Zala or Lance, Lancet, Monia and other Russian drones. And of course, we make drone on fiber optics. And we have different type of fiber optics from ten kilometers to forty kilometers.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  Forty kilometer.

• 2:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. And we think that we can make more than forty kilometers and we will make it. So because our modern frontline, not frontline, of course, it's now we call it kill zone. You should know about it. So we haven't any frontline and we haven't any gray zone in our war. We have only kill zone. It's like different part of frontline. The skill zone can be from one kilometer to twenty kilometers. So it's an area where only drones rule everything.

• 3:04Speaker 00

  So you can use your vehicles, you can use any type of big cars or any type of armored vehicles. You can use only your feet if you will be lucky. Or you can use different unmanned systems, air unmanned systems, ground unmanned system. So and of course, this zone of big work of reps and different technologies. And that's the answer the question, why we really need different drones on fiber optic. So we have it too.

• 3:46Speaker 00

  Our company was made in 2023. We started like from ten drones per month. And now we produce more than, I can give you a correct number because it's not secure information. But we made thousands, ten of thousands drones per month, nearly one hundred thousands drone per month.

• 4:15Speaker 01

  Let me just unpack some of that because so it's General Cherry is the name of the drone. Cherry.

• 4:23Speaker 00

  General Cherry, it's like the name of company.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  The company and also the family.

• 4:30Speaker 00

  There's also family of drones, yeah.

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Cherry, you were telling me it's a symbol because the town that, yeah.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's a symbol. Originally, our company came from Zaporizhzhia region. It's a source and central south part of Ukraine. And the Prizhzhia region has different symbols. And one of the symbols of Zaporizhzhia is a cherry gardens, different cherry gardens. So for us, for us, it's very important story because we want to remember about our roots. And we want to remember about one of the biggest city of the Prizhzhia region, the city of Meditopol. The cherry is a general symbol of city of Meditopol. And the city of Meditopol is now it's temporarily occupied this territory.

• 5:20Speaker 00

  So we want to remember that we came from the Swans. And of course, we will come back to the Swans.

• 5:30Speaker 01

  How many drone companies are there now manufacturers in Ukraine? And what percentage of the drones on the battlefield? You know, originally there were Mavic, there were DJI.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  And you said you started manufacturing in 2023.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Today is the majority of drones on the battlefield. Are they manufactured in Ukraine? And where are you in that group of manufacturers?

• 6:01Speaker 00

  I think hundreds of companies. I don't know the correct number, but I think that it's maybe hundreds or thousands different drone companies.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 6:10Speaker 00

  Only on the, and I can tell you only about the air drones. I don't know the situation on the ground system or the water system. But in air, in the air, in air drones, we have maybe hundreds and hundreds company in Ukraine. Of course, we have like maybe ten, fifteen big companies who can produce more than ten of thousand, tenth of thousand drones per month. But I don't know how many garage factories we have in different, in different garage and in different, different small rooms. And these guys can make the drones too.

• 6:54Speaker 00

  So thousand companies maybe.

• 6:57Speaker 01

  And where do you stand in?

• 6:59Speaker 00

  Different locations.

• 7:01Speaker 01

  No, but are you the largest or a mid, middle?

• 7:05Speaker 00

  We are, we are in maybe in the top five of in general.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  In 2023, I would imagine if you're building them yourselves, very simple drones.

• 7:17Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  You now have AI connected or AI powered and also the fiber optic drones. Is this, are you using off the shelf technology? Who's producing the navigation systems? Who's producing the fiber optic? Is that stuff you buy off the shelf? And most importantly, where are you getting the AI models? And what are you using them for?

• 7:47Speaker 00

  Just our own development because we have very strong and big R and D department. And we try to make every technology is by our own power. So every technology that we have, every technology that we use, the technology that made by us. But, but with very close and very deep collaboration with our militaries from different, different units, from different regimes. So it's always about collaboration with our military

• 8:29Speaker 00

  because we make products for these unions. And we, of course, we need this feedback. Of course, we need this understanding of a frontline situation. And of course, we should know what work better, what work worst. So every drone that we made, we made by our R and D. And of course, we buy our, not only, not only about hard technologies. And it's about the soft technologies, so like AI targeting. But we always made it only with military units. It's very important part of our work.

• 9:11Speaker 00

  Because we, of course, in Ukraine, we have very easy access to battleproof status. And we can test every our product like every day. And it's very easy to us to do it. And so we have different mobile groups who came to our military in different parts of front every day. And we take this feedback and we know that what we should do next, not only like.

• 9:42Speaker 00

  For for weekend or for four months, we can see in like near the future and we we can understand what we need. The next step in this technology war and what we should do and what what the product should be next. Because our soldiers give us this information.

• 10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, and when did you develop this form factor, I mean as a rocket? Shape as opposed to a flat quadcopter?

• 10:15Speaker 00

  It's it's not a it's not a you not in general Ukrainian technology this form factor because I saw the information that first it was like a

• 10:29Speaker 00

  sport type FPV from Red Bull. And they launched it maybe in twenty twenty one or twenty twenty two, you can check this information later. So it's so the Red Bull team, sorry, Red Bull was first one who makes this form factor. And after different Ukrainian companies and our two saw that it's working because this form factor can reach higher speeds than ordinary quadrocopter, ordinary FPV drone. And we understand that it's working and we try trying different form factors. But we now we think that this one is the best one for us.

• 11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, and so it it I mean, I'll I'll

• 11:17Speaker 00

  It starts like ordinary FPV, comes after start. They put down like a rocket and we fly like like a literal rocket.

• 11:25Speaker 01

  I see, yeah, like a cruise missile.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Cruise missile, yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 01

  And is the payload or the warhead inside the rocket? It's not, I mean, this

• 11:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, inside, here.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Right, so it's a kamikaze drone, it's not a release. Do you is this the the most common

• 11:46Speaker 01

  product or do you also make the drones that release munitions?

• 11:52Speaker 00

  We have a project with the so-called middle bomber. Because it's very important for our militaries. Then you can came with this drone and make some mining or make some goods.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  Not delivery, like delivery of mine on the Russian Russian heads.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  We have the project, but we now it's like in deeply producing stage. So it's not it's not not not yet released.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 12:31Speaker 00

  But ninety ninety percent of our drones is a kamikaze drones.

• 12:35Speaker 01

  Right, and so you're producing tens of thousands, if not a hundred thousand a month?

• 12:41Speaker 00

  Near be one, I think that near be one hundred thousands per month. Once again, I can give you the correct number. But it's it's a big amount and we know that our we have capabilities to make more than one hundred thousands per month because because we have this capability.

• 13:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what is the the demand? I mean, how many are are you is are the military units consuming a hundred thousand a month?

• 13:13Speaker 00

  So we we working with more than one hundred and ten military brigades. It's like, I think, three hundreds units. And of course, they they use more than one hundred drones per month.

• 13:33Speaker 00

  I don't know the correct number, but I think that's

• 13:37Speaker 00

  one of our best units can use more than

• 13:42Speaker 00

  five thousands drones per month easily.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  And that's because missed targets or missed malfunctions or?

• 13:48Speaker 00

  Different different reasons, different reasons, human factor, weather factors, spoofing

• 13:56Speaker 00

  not like a different reasons.

• 13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, so and that was, I mean, getting to the AI part.

• 14:04Speaker 01

  Is the AI that you're using? What model are you using? How do you communicate with the drone? Is it for navigation? Is it for stability? Is it for?

• 14:23Speaker 01

  Well, I'm not sure what else it would be for, but yeah.

• 14:27Speaker 00

  I should tell that it's for me, it's like one of the first steps of AI integration process in drones because our NI technology is like

• 14:42Speaker 00

  I should tell you that it's like half autonomous, so of course you need the operator, of course you need of course you need to control the drone in the fly. But when you detect the air target like a shakit, our drone can can understand that it's a shakit. And our drone, it can can control itself and and can go to this shakit without any operator control. And and it's like it's it's a good one, it's first steps, but it's not about fully autonomous autonomous system.

• 15:22Speaker 00

  It's not about some kind of great worm, a great great wall of swarm technology, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Because to tell the truth, we saw that

• 15:34Speaker 00

  nobody in this world for now have a good AI technology in drones because it's very, very hard technologies. And we don't know how it will be worked in on the battlefield. And we don't know how it will be worked on the ground too, so it's very hard. But we have some kind of half AI, so our AI model can can detect the drone. Can can can aim this drone and you don't need you

• 16:05Speaker 00

  you shouldn't do more if you're a pilot, so you can only detect and you can fly to this drone on cruise control and shut down it.

• 16:16Speaker 01

  Okay, and you were talking about the shadi drones that the Russians are using. Can you explain what that drone is? Is that the primary?

• 16:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Attack from from the Russians?

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, so once again, we have two different type of interceptors. This one is this interceptor drone for Russian shakits. Shakits or geran.

• 16:42Speaker 00

  It's originally Iranian drone. But now Russian produce

• 16:50Speaker 00

  thousands and thousands of drone in Russia. So it's like a big deep strike drone.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  Cost like maybe different type can because different, but it costs from fifty thousands to one hundred hundred and more thousand dollars. So it's big, big kamikaze drone, big deep strike drone who came to and it's

• 17:17Speaker 00

  and Russian use it for

• 17:20Speaker 00

  different terrorist attack to our cities. It's not like frontline drone because they keep other drone from frontline. It's only drone for deep strikes for to for our cities. They use shakits for different reasons because by shakits they can

• 17:40Speaker 00

  overdose our air defense system. We we should use very high price rockets from different western air defense system for the shakits and it's not okay for us. So we find a solution. We find the solutions that we can make small, faster, very dangerous interceptor drone. Who this drone costs like two thousand dollars. And you can destroy this big deep strike machine with this little drone.

• 18:16Speaker 01

  I should have made that clear at the beginning. These are primarily anti-drone, counter-drone

• 18:28Speaker 01

  weapons. They're intended to attack other drones.

• 18:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  Are they also for attacking, are they also anti-personnel?

• 18:37Speaker 00

  It's it's not for by personals, of course, it's not for a personals, it's like a drone with a drone. Firstly, maybe you can kill somebody from this drone too. If you will have some kind of alpha kill of C four here, of course you can kill somebody. But it's it's it's not the general goal of this drone.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  So. Yeah.

• 18:58Speaker 00

  The the general goal is to destroy Russian drones.

• 19:03Speaker 01

  All of the drones in your line are anti-drone drones?

• 19:08Speaker 00

  No, no, we we have just ordinary FPV, Afghan Gazelle. And this ordinary FPV and fiber optic FPV, of course, used by uh different for for different targets, like capers, wickles, artillery and other, other. So we uh we have products for maybe for every target on the battlefield.

• 19:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, you were saying earlier that that there's no longer a clear front line.

• 19:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  There's a a kill zone. So you were saying that there's no longer a clear front line, that that because of the drones, it's broadened into a zone, a kill zone.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  No.

• 19:54Speaker 01

  And within that kill zone, uh there are drones on the other side that are hunting men or soldiers uh in that zone.

• 20:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  So are the lines, is that why the lines are fairly fixed? Because it's very difficult to advance because of the the drones?

• 20:16Speaker 00

  It's not, of course, it's not about some kind of fixed lines. So it's like here, uh I think that it's well, it's about like different, different, different of so many, many little zones with and it can be like for one kilometer and it can be like for twenty kilometers. So it's uh it's a one big kill zone who consists from different little zones with different uh different uh tactical and operational situations in this zone. So and this zone consists only from personals in a trenches and some kind of small trenches and a lot of, a lot of different drones, air drones, ground drones.

• 21:01Speaker 00

  So it's like a kingdom of different drones.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Drones, yeah. And so this, the interceptor, when did you start manufacturing interceptors? Because in twenty twenty three, you were.

• 21:13Speaker 00

  Yeah. So our tactical interceptor, General Chery Air, first was produced, uh no massively produced, yeah, uh in February twenty twenty five. And since February twenty twenty five, we have more than five thousand confirmed Russian drone uh drone strikes. So more than five thousand is very big number. So only in December, we shut down more than one thousand Russians Monias, only one type of drone. I I think you know about the Monia drones. Uh it's very, very cheap, very dangerous Russian drones.

• 21:55Speaker 00

  And we shut down more than one thousand uh by our tactical interceptor, General Chery Air. So this one, uh we start produce in October twenty twenty five. Uh massively, we start produce it's maybe in December twenty twenty five. And now we have more than

• 22:22Speaker 00

  tens of tens uh confirmed shacket strikes. I don't know, maybe, maybe near be this confirmed shacket strike, maybe more, maybe, maybe near be a hundred. I don't wanna, don't wanna tell you, tell the correct number. But it's worked, it's worked and it's worked well.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  Okay, and so you have AI for the the targeting.

• 22:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  When when you launch this, I mean, how do you, how do you know what direction to to send it? I mean, how do you know there's an incoming drone?

• 22:59Speaker 00

  It's like com- complex work with radars with different, different uh different radar, different system that our military knows that, oh, we knows that we have three jackets in our sector. We see on radars, we know that this jacket came to us close. So the launch, launch this drone, you need like thirty seconds to launch it. Take it and launch it. And after this, you for for by your eyes, you try, you should find this drone with radar, with your uh with your radar and understand that, oh, I see it. And after, after this, you can uh use AI targeting.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  Okay, so you're you're watching the radar, you know there are three of these drones in your sector. You launch this in the general direction of those drones.

• 23:54Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  And then uh there's a signal sent that, or is the, is the AI uh in the cloud and and communicating with the drone or is it on device?

• 24:09Speaker 00

  On device.

• 24:10Speaker 01

  It's on the device?

• 24:11Speaker 00

  Yeah, on the.

• 24:12Speaker 01

  And it's a small model on a chip?

• 24:14Speaker 00

  Yes, just little model uh in our cameras. So you can, it's like on on device, a little process.

• 24:25Speaker 01

  Right, and is there a camera in this?

• 24:27Speaker 00

  And and yeah, yeah, you can, you can see that's it's camera.

• 24:31Speaker 01

  I see.

• 24:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 24:32Speaker 01

  Maybe pointed at the camera there, yeah.

• 24:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then uh and the uh

• 24:44Speaker 01

  and once the AI targeting, what do you call that model? Does it have a name?

• 24:52Speaker 00

  It's just our own, so I don't wanna tell it.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  Your, your own?

• 24:58Speaker 00

  It's our own soft.

• 25:00Speaker 01

  Software.

• 25:01Speaker 00

  It's our software and I don't think that I should tell some.

• 25:05Speaker 01

  Okay, but you developed it or you buy it from overseas?

• 25:10Speaker 00

  Uh firstly, we uh we both like, we buy like a small team who start to make this soft uh software and we uh we bought it and we uh give them, of course, money, support, technologies for very fast scaling. And now it's like a part of our R and D, uh R and D team.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Okay, and and so you send a signal to turn on the AI, the model is on the drone, and it takes over navigation?

• 25:49Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 25:50Speaker 01

  And it's, what's the the metric to measure accuracy? Is it ninety percent accurate, fifty percent accurate, twenty percent accurate?

• 25:59Speaker 00

  Depends, depends different situation. Uh it's, I think that it's it's more than seventy percent. Seventy, eighteen percent of uh of accuracy.

• 26:11Speaker 01

  Will will find their target?

• 26:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 01

  And it's carrying a warhead that's strong enough to destroy?

• 26:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, of course, you just need like uh four hundred grams of explosive and you can destroy the jacket.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  And what kind of explosive? Is it C four or?

• 26:29Speaker 00

  Uh it's depends in the situation what you have.

• 26:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's manufactured with the, with the charge in it?

• 26:39Speaker 00

  No, no, no, we, we just made on these drones. Maybe somebody wanna use it on the wedding, I don't know. We, we don't produce uh with the weapon.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  I see. So, so when you ship it to the military?

• 26:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  They pop the, can you pop the top off that?

• 26:58Speaker 00

  Uh because it's, we need to say, so because it's fully, fully constructs, uh it takes the full, full construct, but it's very easy, just need to take off.

• 27:11Speaker 01

  You, you put the charge in?

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 27:13Speaker 01

  And the trigger is already there or?

• 27:17Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, you can two different type of triggers, like for kinetic power and the one, the first one and the like a but button on your controller. You can, you can choose what, what you, what you wanna.

• 27:30Speaker 01

  How has the addition of AI changed drone warfare?

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Very scary in question, that is true, very scary in question. Because if we will have some kind of fully autonomous systems, it will be very scary. Because you don't need other human to kill the human. So it's very scary, because you just need a robot, you just need a drone. And if it will be fully automatic, not, okay, if it will be like a semi-automatic like in our uh interceptors, it will be crazy. But for now, uh uh it's for now, why we don't use the semi-automatic AI in our ordinary FPV drones?

• 28:23Speaker 00

  Because uh it's, it's give us more high price for drones, you don't need it. If you can, for our military better, if you can buy like a five ordinary FPV without AI, it will be better than you can buy one FPV by with AI. But we'll see, because we, we are talking about the technologies and I think that the technologies will be uh very, we will see very fast scaling of these technologies and we will see that the price will be lower, lower, lower and lower. And it will be very, very scary for everybody in the front, very scary. So, but we'll see, but I think that for us, the general point is the most important

• 29:07Speaker 00

  point for us now is to make the fully a, a fully autonomous interceptor system. So uh when you can take this drone in some kind of box, uh go carry it on the boat or maybe some on the deep ground and just use it only one for one button. So it's, it will be great for us. We will see, but I don't wanna think about the AI technologies in the, in the ordinary battlefield, because it will be.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  Very, very bad for both sides. Of course, we wanna that's

• 29:49Speaker 00

  the best side for our enemies, but we know that we take some technologies from enemies. Technology enemies takes technologies from us. So if we will have this technology, they will, they will have these technologies maybe in a week, two.

• 30:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that was one of the questions. And about this widening kill zone

• 30:11Speaker 01

  and the blurring of the front line as these weapons become more effective and can operate at a greater distance. Are you seeing the Russians keep up with the technology as fast as you? And do they have interceptor drones that are as effective?

• 30:36Speaker 00

  I think that we should, we should talk about two different systems, two different type of understanding the technologies. Because I think that Ukraine more better and faster in

• 30:53Speaker 00

  in constructing something new, something new technologies. But Russia, of course, the more better than us in scaling of this technology.

• 31:03Speaker 01

  And that's just a matter of their industrial.

• 31:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is about, about different because we live in capitalistic Ukraine. We have different companies. We have, we have different like markets, relationships and other as others. Russia, you have strong classic

• 31:28Speaker 00

  tyranny vertical and you can scale everything very fast.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. So this hasn't prevented, it's, you're not winning the war because of you have interceptor drones or FPV drones or you're just maintaining the line or the, or the, the zone, you're not.

• 31:54Speaker 00

  We call it like asymmetrical solutions. Of course, we haven't so much soldiers like Russia. Of course, we haven't so much bloody oil money like Russia. Of course, we haven't so much vehicles, rather, rather, rather like Russia. Of course, we destroyed a lot of Russian techniques, so they use horses. But anyway, we have it. But we have our smart and we have our understanding that we need something asymmetrical. And we made it. We made these drones, FPV drones in 2022.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  No, not made, but re-understand the abuse of using of these drones in 2022. And we showed to the world that in modern war, it's not important how big and how many people you have. If you have technologies, very cheap technologies, you can, you can take this war and you can win this war. We still believe that we can win this war. And I think that it's not about the land. It's about our understanding. We truly understand that Ukraine is not a part of Russia. We showed it during this four years.

• 33:24Speaker 00

  And they showed that if they will have some questions to us in future, we will have the good answers to these questions.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  And I know you have to go, but my last question is the future. The war will end, we all hope. I mean, certainly it will end someday.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  Ukraine has developed this drone industry. What happens to that industry after, after the war?

• 33:56Speaker 00

  We actively working now for our international expansion. So we

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Really?

• 34:02Speaker 00

  Yeah, we wanna, we wanna do this not only because of money, but because we think about our partners, about our Western partners. And we wanna help our Western partners to make big and very good defense system. Because only we and Russia know how to operate in this modern war. And of course, we wanna export our drones. Of course, we wanna make some maybe joint factory on joint ventures with different companies from USA or from Europe.

• 34:46Speaker 00

  And we actively work on this way because we have a lot of conversation with from, from Riga to Los Angeles. And we trying to find good partners because we don't need the money. Yeah, of course, we are open for investments. We're open for different type of venture. It's not a problem. But first of all, we need like good R and D and technologies. We need good engineers from the West who can help, help us to make this product better. Because we have a lot of our expertise from the front, from the battlefield.

• 35:30Speaker 00

  And if we will have this accept to the Western maybe institutes or maybe the Western best engineers, we can combine it and make something, something really.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, are you looking beyond defense? Are there, are there commercial, non-defense applications?

• 35:51Speaker 00

  Non-defense, like a do use.

• 35:55Speaker 00

  I think that we should start to think about drones, not only about in the, during the war. We should start thinking about the drones during, like in our civil life. Because if we can make some kind of

• 36:14Speaker 00

  we will see, we will see the drone will be used by different, different, maybe different terrorist group. Maybe different, different for different murders, assistance as other as other. We will see it. So we open to work not only with militars, but with different security services, different police, police, national guard from different countries. And of course, we openly for work with big corporation who wanna make this own security from drones. Because drones is not only about, can we catch drones? It's not only about targeting drones. It's about intelligence drones.

• 36:59Speaker 00

  It's about blackmailing drones. It's about like not legal cargo delivering to other, other, other. So we understand drones and we know how to operate it and we know how to destroy it. So we are opening to different collaborations in different, different ways. Like example, when the, when the era of internet came to us, every company, every government structure started to make some kind of cyber security services. Now, I think that we started the era of drones.

• 37:39Speaker 00

  And every department in every government, in every big company, not in, not big company, in every company will make some kind of drone security department. And this drone security department should write this rules of security. Because it's very important for us.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:02Speaker 00

  And we open to show our expertise in it. We open for it.

• 38:06Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. Well, let's leave it there.