202. Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe: The Fiber-Gut Connection: How to Improve Your Microbiome, Blood Sugar & Cholesterol

Most people know they should eat more fiber. But what we're learning about fiber, gut health, and the microbiome goes far beyond digestion. Your gut contains trillions of microbes that depend on what you eat—and different types of fiber feed different bacteria. Those microbes can influence everything from blood sugar regulation and metabolic health to cholesterol and the way your digestive system functions. That means it's not just about getting more fiber. The diversity of the fiber you eat matters, too. In this episode, I'm joined by Colleen Cutcliffe, PhD, microbiome scientist and co-founder and CEO of Pendulum Therapeutics, to break down what the latest science tells us about fiber and the gut microbiome. Colleen explains the difference between soluble and insoluble fiber, why most people aren't getting enough, and how fiber and prebiotics support beneficial gut bacteria. We also explore how the microbiome changes throughout life, the role of polyphenols, and the emerging connection between specific gut bacteria and metabolic health. In this episode, you'll learn: • Why fiber is one of the most important foods for your gut microbiome • The difference between soluble and insoluble fiber—and why you need both • Why fiber diversity may be just as important as total fiber intake • How the gut microbiome is connected to blood sugar and metabolic health • How certain types of fiber can support healthy LDL cholesterol levels • The difference between fiber, prebiotics, probiotics, and polyphenols • Practical ways to increase the amount and diversity of fiber in your diet We also discuss why getting enough fiber can be harder than it sounds, how gut health needs can differ between children and adults, and where targeted microbiome products like Pendulum's Gut Fuel may fit alongside a fiber-rich diet. The microbiome is changing the way we think about nutrition. And one of the simplest places to start supporting it may already be sitting on your plate: eat more plants, eat more types of fiber, and feed the microbes you want to thrive. Learn more about Dr. Shah: Website: drshah.com https://drshah.com Clinic: next-health.com https://www.next-health.com/ Instagram: @darshanshahmd and @extend_podcast Learn more about Colleen Cutcliffe: Website: pendulumlife.com https://pendulumlife.com Instagram: @drcolleencutcliffe Thank You To Our Sponsors! Pendulum: You can go to penulumlife.com https://penulumlife.com and use my code EXTEND for your first membership order.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend with me, Dr. Darshan Shah, a podcast dedicated to cutting-edge science, research, tools, and protocols designed to help you extend your health span. Having become one of the youngest doctors in the country at the age of 21, and trained and board certified at the Mayo Clinic, I've accumulated three decades of practice as a board-certified surgeon and longevity expert. Over that time, I've discovered that a mere 20% of health knowledge yields 80% of the results when it comes to your health span. We're living in a new era where we are creating a new healthcare system, no longer focused on disease management, but achieving optimal health and vitality. Join me as I interview world-renowned experts, offering you a step-by-step guide to proactively avoid disease, and most importantly, extend your health span.

• 0:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Welcome to Extend. I'm your host, Dr. Darshan Shah. Today, we're going to do a deep dive into the fascinating world of gut health, the microbiome, and the evolution of fiber supplementation with one of my favorite people in the world, Dr. Colleen Cutcliffe. She's been on this podcast before, so you might know her. She's a brilliant PhD and the head of a massive company in gut health called Pendulum. She's one of the most knowledgeable people on the planet when it comes to nurturing our microbiome for a lifetime of wellness. In this episode, Colleen is going to break down the complex science of gut bacteria, explaining the crucial differences between soluble and insoluble fibers, why a variety of prebiotics are essential for your health, and how modern innovations like resistant

• 1:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  starches and allulose can transform our metabolic health. We're going to tackle real-world challenges in this episode, including how you can support a sensitive stomach, how you can navigate low FODMAP diets, and practical hacks for getting enough fiber without having to eat 10 cups of broccoli a day. Get ready for an incredible convo packed with actionable insights to help you age healthier and smarter and have the healthiest gut you can.

• 2:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  My good friend, Colleen, it's always an incredible pleasure to have you on Extend. Thanks for joining me again.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Thanks so much for having me, and I always love our conversations.

• 2:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. I mean, you're the world's, in my mind, you're one of the most world's knowledgeable people on the gut and the microbiome, and everything having to do with how do we take care of our gut in a way that lasts us for our entire lifetimes, right? And so you're a PhD, you are the head of a massive company in the gut health space, and I'm just honored to have you on.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me, and I love our conversations because you're able to integrate how we think about gut health in the context of whole health, and as we all want to age in a healthy way, I'm also stealing tidbits from you.

• 2:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This works out perfectly, for sure. And you know, I always say this, like, I'm just a parrot for my patients. Like, these are the questions my patient asks me, and I'm like, I'll make sure to ask Colleen that question when I get her on the podcast. So, thank you for, thank you for doing this.

• 2:56Speaker 01

  Great, yeah.

• 2:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  So today, I think, you know, what I'd love to focus on as far as gut goes, is the whole world of fiber supplementation, and also like, what is going to feed our gut bacteria? I think, you know, the science has advanced dramatically here, and people are confused, too. There's so many products, you know, people feel like they're, you know, basically like, putting five different scoops of things in their morning, you know, morning smoothie every day, and they're getting a little bit, I would say, lost in like, what is really working and what's not. And I also think there's, you know, a big conversation to be had around the different populations of people. Like, we're all not just like, one standard human, right? There's kids, there's women, there's men, and there's

• 3:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  different age groups. And how does our gut health change over the course of our lifetime? It's really important to know, too.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  Absolutely. I think this is such an important conversation, and you know, fiber's the new protein, and we can talk about why that is and what people should be looking for.

• 3:55Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. You know, fiber's a new protein, as far as like, how much attention is getting right now, but the science around fiber has been around for like, decades, right?

• 4:02Speaker 01

  Oh, well, and, you know, like, you remember your grandma's Metamucil? So, fiber predates and postdates protein.

• 4:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Speaking of Metamucil, it's just like, I ask people, do you get enough fiber? And then they say, well, I take Metamucil every morning, and that's like, the end of the fiber conversation for them.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Yes. Well, and products like Metamucil have really withstood the test of time, because, to your point, your gut changes over time, and as we start to age, we start to really focus on digestion. And Metamucil, for a long time, has been a very cost-effective way to get a particular type of fiber, psyllium husk, you know, into your microbiome. But now, we know so much more about the microbiome and all the different variety of different fibers that is the buffet for your microbiome. So, that's one, you know, of many.

• 4:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  One of many, right. And so, I think this concept around the microbiome really influencing the science around fiber is an important one to dive into, because I think, previously to microbiome research exploding to where it has right now, I don't think we really understood the nature of why we need different types of fiber. Is that a fair statement?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say that that's definitely true. I mean, I think we've known that fiber has a lot of beneficial health outcomes for metabolic syndrome and cardiovascular disease, but how it's interacting with the microbiome and what the different types of fibers are that are interacting with different microbes and what they're doing, this is all new stuff.

• 5:30Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, very, very new. And so, maybe you can break it down for us, like, from your vantage point, when you talk to people about fiber, how do you talk about the different types?

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, so first of all, I think if we're coming from a gut microbiome angle, in the gut microbiome, or what the gut microbiome is, is all the bacteria and viruses and fungi that reside inside our bodies and here in our guts, we mostly are talking about the bacteria when people talk about the microbiome. And so, the context for fiber is, you got to feed those microbes, you got to feed those bacteria, and the food for these bacteria are prebiotics. And one type of prebiotic is fiber. So, just to contextualize, from the, from the bacterious point of view, this is their food.

• 6:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But why do we need to feed them?

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, they have to eat in order to survive, just like any other organism. And unlike us, where we get a lot of choices about what we're going to eat, they only get what we, what we feed them. So, what we consume, and what every person is consuming, you got to think about, I am choosing who is going to thrive and who is not, and all those food choices that you're making. And so, this is where fiber starts to become really important, because fiber is one of the primary food choices for these different bacteria. And if you think about historically and ancestrally, you know, tubers and fibers, and all of these potatoes and things like that, that was what we ate. We foraged, we ate a lot of vegetables. And so, our microbiome has evolved to really also feed off a bunch of vegetables. And we've evolved faster, you know, than, than these different health

• 6:56Speaker 01

  benefits of our microbiome, but fiber's so important.

• 6:59Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So, you know, when you talk about having a variety of fibers, is because we're trying to give the variety of microbiome bacteria in our gut, the food that they need to survive. And why is that variety important for our microbiome as well?

• 7:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, if we were to bucket, a lot of people bucket fiber into two categories. One is insoluble, and one is soluble, and they're kind of exactly how they sound. And so, the soluble fibers, when they solubilize, they kind of form a gel-like substance, and that becomes food for a certain set of microbes. And it also can slow down your gastric emptying, so that's, gives sort of a feeling of fullness. And that's one of the things people experience when they start to ramp up their fiber, is, well, I feel full faster, I have less cravings for food, and that's usually on that category. And then there's insoluble fibers, which feed a different set of, of bacteria. There's been a lot more work and knowledge on the soluble fiber end, but both of these types of fibers are feeding different types of

• 8:00Speaker 01

  strains in your microbiome, and so you want to be trying to get that diversity into your gut.

• 8:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So, the insoluble fibers, what are the names of some of the, like, we mentioned Metamucil, is that a soluble or an insoluble?

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Metamucil, which is derived from psyllium husk, is a soluble fiber. Now, I feel like we're, we're going to do a quiz here.

• 8:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Sorry. No, this is not Jeopardy. I just, I just want people to know, like, how do we categorize these? Because I think that, you know, right there, people get a little bit confused in days. They're like, wait, now I need two types of fiber? And it's actually not that hard to get both of these types of fiber.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think the thing you want to look for is really, when you, when you're reading labels, getting multiple different fibers in there. So, multiple different sources of fibers can be the easy way to know. And if you just read like, a single ingredient, you're getting a single type of fiber in there. And so, that, that's kind of a cheater way to, to look at it. But, you know, one that's gotten a lot of attention, especially when it comes to metabolic health, is resistant potato starch. And this is a tricky one, because it has to be processed in a very specific type of way to deliver these health outcomes. But if you get the right kind, it can actually lower your blood glucose spikes and be very beneficial. And I just learned this little life hack, which is that if you

• 9:16Speaker 01

  don't want to take the supplement of resistant potato starch, the way to actually get resistant potato starch is, you cook your potatoes, the way you normally do, you cool them down, and then that prompts this biochemical reaction that turns most of the starches in there into resistant starches. And so, potato salad, even though people are all anti because of the carbs, it's an awesome source of resistant potato starches.

• 9:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Yeah, you can do the same with like, rice, you can do the same with other carbs as well. Sweet potatoes is, really changes your body's reaction to these carbohydrates. And that way, you can turn something that previously might have spiked your blood glucose into something that can now actually help you regulate your blood glucose by making it resistant.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  Exactly. And again, if you think back to, you know, the kind of ancestrally, we weren't eating microwave baked potatoes. So, this is, again, you know, part of the evolution.

• 10:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. And then, there's other types of fibers, like inulin, for example. What are those?

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, inulin is probably one of the most well-studied fibers out there, and has probably the most literature supporting its role in, in growing different strains. And in fact, you know, we combine inulin with a strain called Acromantia misinfili, and it is, it can stimulate the growth of Acromantia. That's been published, you know, pretty widely. One of the issues with inulin is that if you have a sensitive stomach, so if you have IBS or, you know, GI issues, that can kind of trigger that. And so, one of the biggest challenges for many people is, how do I get all the fiber that I want to need without upsetting my stomach? And so, I think that is a growing population of people. In fact,

• 10:58Speaker 01

  like, I just read that a third of Americans have IBS. That's a lot of people. And so, if you are not sure, but you think, like, well, I do have a sensitive stomach, or if I eat, you know, a big, you know, bowl of lentils, like, yeah, I'm gonna be investing in toilet paper. Then you might want to be thinking about, okay, how do I get fibers that are what's called low FODMAP? And so low FODMAP is something that I think is not a sustainable kind of diet to be on, but it's something that a lot of people go on when they're trying to figure out, how am I going to deal with my digestive issues? And it, one of the things that we have been thinking, thought, thinking carefully about is, how can you select fibers that give you the diversity of soluble and insoluble,

• 11:42Speaker 01

  that feed the different gut microbes and also check the box of low FODMAP? And Inulin, despite all of the data behind it, actually is not low FODMAP.

• 11:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So is, what does FODMAP stand for, by the way? That's an acronym for?

• 11:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, I mean, low FODMAP, FODMAP stands for fermentable oligosaccharides, disaccharides, monosaccharides, oligosaccharides, and polyols. And so it's just the category of different things that are known to kind of trigger people with IBS.

• 12:10Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. And so is the idea there that you want low FODMAP Inulin? Or are there other low FODMAP fibers?

• 12:18Speaker 01

  There are other low FODMAP fibers. And Inulin, because of its molecular structure, actually is FODMAP. So if it doesn't, if you're trying to do low FODMAP, you can't really use Inulin, which is, so if you don't have low FODMAP requirements, I highly recommend Inulin as a fiber source, because also it has a little bit of a sweet taste to it. And so you can add it into your food, into your baking. I mean, it's actually a great fiber.

• 12:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, another one on that category is allulose too, which is sweet and is a fiber and actually lowers blood glucose.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  That's right. I mean, it's a great substitute for sugar when you're baking.

• 12:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. But I do, I do like that one. It's kind of a hack as well.

• 12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love, I love all the food hacks that we're mentioning on this episode.

• 12:59Speaker 01

  I know. Well, and allulose, when I first got introduced to it, I was very skeptical. I was like, how is this going to replace sugar? And I have a family of, with two kids that you do, there's a chocolate chip cookie recipe, and you don't mess with that recipe. And I secretly subbed in the allulose. And I just knew they were going to be like, what is this cookie? And they could not tell. And that's when I became a big believer.

• 13:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, that's amazing. That's a great story. Yeah. I think, you know, I think every family should just try allulose and see if their family likes it or not. And it can replace sugar completely. I haven't found it to be that good for like putting in beverages. Like I find for some reason in beverages, it doesn't work as well. But definitely for cooking and food and baking specifically, it works really well.

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think as parents, we're always trying to figure out hacks to get nutrition into our kids. So if we can substitute sugar for allulose, like that's a win.

• 13:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, absolutely. And so what are some of the other kind of like compounds that bacteria need to feed on besides fiber?

• 13:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think there's two big categories of these prebiotics that feed these strains. One is fibers and the other is polyphenols. And so, you know, if you think to your grocery store, this is really your produce section. So the fibers are your leafy greens, your asparagus, all of those veggies. And then you get your polyphenols and your fiber from your fruits. So pomegranates, berries, all of those are great sources of polyphenols. You can also get your polyphenols from things like green tea, spices. So if you like lots of spices in your foods, those are great sources of polyphenols. And then the other place, just to go back to fibers, is your lentils and beans section. Those are packed with, with fibers.

• 14:38Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that's a great source of protein and fiber for sure.

• 14:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But like a lot of people though, like we're talking about all these different foods and have like this variety of foods and also, you know, getting protein and beans in. And, and it's just hard for people to get enough fiber. And like, I think, you know, the requirement for fiber is around 30 grams a day, right? And so a lot of people don't get enough fiber.

• 14:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. And just to translate 30 grams a day of fiber, that's 10 cups of raw broccoli. I'm not eating 10 cups of raw broccoli every day.

• 15:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's a lot.

• 15:08Speaker 01

  That's intense. And so I think, yeah, if you're not, you know, doing a farm to table every meal of the day and really able to have all of those different, you know, variety of fruits and vegetables on your plate, there are alternative ways that you can get fibers. And those really come in the form of supplements, where the fiber's been extracted from those. And typically supplements come in the form of a powder that you can mix into, usually they're beverages that you mix into. And, and again, getting back to madam, you'll just, I think it's so familiar. You do mix and mix and mix and mix, and then you shoot it. Hopefully you got the fiber in. But I think what we've evolved to now is what are the different types of fibers? And actually being able to extract them and deliver them in a way

• 15:51Speaker 01

  that can get into your drink and kind of solubilize so that you're not having these like big pasty glue pellets at the end. And so I think there's been a lot of evolution in how we can extract and deliver those fibers in meaningful ways. And also how we can get them beyond just in our drinks. You know, to your point, some of these supplements do better when they're being baked or cooked with. And so I think there are, you know, emerging different fibers that are going to be helpful, you know, helpful because you can consume them in different ways. So if you're looking for fiber supplements as a way to supplement the food that you're eating, you want to look for diverse fibers. If you can also get polyphenols in there, that's awesome. If you can put it into your beverage, if you can cook with it,

• 16:34Speaker 01

  these are all just additional ways that you can integrate fiber into your everyday life. So it doesn't feel like you have to do this whole extra thing just to be healthy.

• 16:42Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I agree. And, you know, I think people also have kind of like this bias sometimes against over supplementing. But I really look at fiber as a kind of food. You're just basically getting in the right food at a high enough concentration where you don't have to eat like, what is it, eight cups of broccoli you said?

• 17:00Speaker 01

  10, 10 cups.

• 17:00Dr. Darshan Shah?

  10 cups of broccoli.

• 17:01Speaker 01

  Raw broccoli. Yeah.

• 17:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And so, you know.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Sorry for all the broccoli lovers out there. That, for most people, that's a hard one.

• 17:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I actually love broccoli, but not raw broccoli. I'll, I'll do it steamed. But I think that is a great way to get the fiber in, which is a food that you need to keep your gut healthy. And I think one of the biggest problems, and I'm sure you agree with this, is our gut as a, just as a Western civilization, has really deteriorated in health over the last, you know, five to eight, 50 to 80 years, right? With the rise of antibiotics, processed food. Processed food is basically like predigested food, right? And with very minimal fiber by definition, because fiber causes these things not to be shelf stable so much, right? And so we need to get to a place where our guts are healthier again.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. And I think, you know, even if you feel like I'm doing all the right things, I've cut back on processed food, you know, processed sugars, all those things. All of us can use a boost in how much fiber we want to get into our bodies. And I agree with you that, you know, being able to get them from a food source is great. But these supplements have a lot of, you know, thousands of publications supporting their role in our health. And so getting it through a supplementation method versus a whole food method, you know, nobody should feel bad about that.

• 18:17Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right. And I totally agree because especially if you're getting enough finally, you know, most people, I think the statistic is most people get somewhere between five to 10 grams of fiber a day right now.

• 18:26Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I think something like less than 5% of Americans get that full daily dose. So it seems like most of us need some help.

• 18:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. And so having like a fiber blend or a mix around the house and just scooping a little bit into everything you make pretty much throughout the day, if you can, whether it be a cup of yogurt or pancakes or, you know, anything really. Like you can, it's very, as long as it mixes well and it doesn't have like its own taste profile. I think you can make it work to add this into almost everything.

• 18:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's true. And, you know, you're basically turning every food into a superfood. And, you know, it's like that saying, butter makes it better. Add a little bit of fiber, it's going to make it all better.

• 19:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 19:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Dr. Shah here, and I want to take a quick moment to talk to you about metabolism. So you've probably already heard, unfortunately, 88% of Americans are metabolically unhealthy. And it's not because of what they're eating. It's actually a lot about what's living in your gut. I'm talking about your microbiome. This is the community of bacteria that controls everything, from how you process sugar to your energy levels, to your mood. There's actually one specific strain in your microbiome called Akkermansia muciniphila. That's absolutely critical for metabolic health. This is a bacteria that strengthens your gut lining. It helps you metabolize carbs more efficiently and it increases GLP-1 production naturally.

• 19:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  The problem is, almost everybody is completely deficient in it. And until recently, there was no way to get this. But that's why I'm really excited about joining Pendulum. They're the first company in the US to bring live Akkermansia to the market. The company was founded by PhD scientists and doctors with the Mayo Clinic as their first investor. The metabolic daily formula that I take every single day doesn't just contain Akkermansia. It's formulated with multiple next generation strains. And these all work together to optimize your metabolism from the inside and out. So you can track every macron calorie if you want. But if your gut microbiome is out of balance, you're going to be fighting an uphill battle. Pendulum is going to give you the tools that you need to fix your gut at its source.

• 20:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Try Pendulum today. Head to my link below and use a discount code. You're going to feel the difference a healthy gut microbiome can make.

• 20:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Let's talk a little bit about like the physiological benefits of fiber. You had mentioned, you know, it's good for cardiovascular health, good for your metabolic health. How does it help cardiovascular health?

• 21:02Speaker 01

  Well, again, I think this is through, well, first of all, I will say that I don't know the full answer to this question, but when we think about how it's helping cardiovascular health through the microbiome and how it's helping metabolic health through the microbiome, it really is feeding these microbes, which then in turn generate these small molecules that are part of that signaling pathway. And one of the biggest group of microbes that we know is really important for cardiovascular health are these butyrate producers. And so this is a type of short chain fatty acid, which has been studied, you know, for a long time and has health benefits. And what fiber is doing is it's feeding those strains that can then produce these short chain fatty acids, including butyrate.

• 21:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, wow. And so butyrate, short chain fatty acids, how does that affect like our cardiovascular health, for example? What's, can you connect the dots for us?

• 21:50Speaker 01

  The, well, now I'm not sure that I'm going to have all the right small molecules here for the cardiovascular part, so.

• 21:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I mean, I think I know a couple of them. I think butyrate does help with vascular firmness or stiffness as well. So it keeps your arteries a little bit more pliable, which is really important, especially if you have like high blood pressure. And then the other thing about fiber that I really like with cardiovascular health is there's massive studies showing that actually lowers your LDL cholesterol, sometimes up to 20 to 30%, which is causative for like plaque in your artery and blockages too.

• 22:23Speaker 01

  But how does it lower your LDL?

• 22:25Dr. Darshan Shah?

  You know, I think the microbiome that is in our gut, it actually prevents the absorption of it if it's healthy, you know? So a lot of people are, are hyper absorbers of cholesterol and, and hyper absorbers of specifically like the kind of cholesterol that turns into fats that turn into LDL cholesterol and promoting the bacteria that can kind of eat up these molecules before they get absorbed is, I think, the mechanism.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm going to go look more into that because I feel like the, I haven't been as clear on the exact mechanism or which strains are specifically doing that, so.

• 23:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. You know, there's a drug actually that we prescribe to a lot of our patients called Zetia, and Zetia decreases the absorption of these LDL molecules as well. And so you, you end up with a lower LDL with Zetia, and it's a really great medication for people that just have poor gut health and are hyper, they call it hyper absorbers of cholesterol.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's amazing, the body, all these different feedback loops and systems for having exactly the right amount of all these molecules floating around in our bloodstream. And so when one little thing gets off kilter, there's all these other tools we need to get it back on kilter. And the, I think, emerging science around the gut microbiome is showing that it is actually also a regulator of what's in free circulation and what's not on, in a variety of ways.

• 23:44Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, also micronutrients, like, you know, depending on your gut microbiome, you might have adequate methylated B levels or not, you might have adequate vitamin D or not. It's, it's so important to have a healthy, diverse microbiome.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there's a lot of work that's now being done on, you know, not just short chain fatty acids, but fatty acids. And so it's, it's exciting.

• 24:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, definitely. So the big question is, how does fiber promote more stable glucose levels and therefore metabolic health as well?

• 24:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is a, similarly, these, again, these, these butyrate producing strains also play a role in metabolic health. And, you know, in that case, one of the things that butyrate producers can do is help maintain the structure of your gut lining. And so your gut lining is an important part of having a healthy gut microbiome because there's all the things that are happening inside the gut that need to stay inside the gut. And you don't want outside and inside to, to melt. And so you've got this, you know, think about like a tube and you, that, that wall of that tube has to be stable and has to let the right things go across and, and the wrong things have to stay, you know, where they're supposed to be.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  And so that tube is, has a glue layer to it that keeps everything together. And so what butyrate producers do is they help to make sure that you are producing that glue and helping to maintain that gut lining.

• 25:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 01

  And so, and that's a key part because one of the things that's related to your blood glucose spikes is misfiring of these small molecules. So that's one. The second is that these fibers that can feed this strain, Acromansia muciniphila, it's one of the only strains that's ever been shown to be able to stimulate your body's natural GLP-1. And so the gut microbiome, you know, all these GLP-1 drugs that are out there are actually mimicking something that your gut microbiome stimulates. And so you have GLP-1 drugs mimicking your body's natural GLP-1 hormone, which comes from certain microbes, and those microbes are fed by fiber. So fiber, you know, is all part of this like chain, so fiber's kind of at the top of it.

• 25:49Speaker 01

  Fiber feeds these microbes, they stimulate GLP-1, that helps you manage your hunger as well as your blood glucose levels.

• 25:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, it's so important. And I think, you know, the other piece of this that you had mentioned was gluing your, your, those gut cells together, right? And there's this whole world of evidence around leaky gut, which is when people have really, really poor gut health, obviously preceded by a poor microbiome health, where they get, basically, leaky gut is a leakage of bacteria and foodstuffs through that gut lining, causing a massive amount of chronic inflammation. So I think fiber is also very helpful in healing a leaky gut.

• 26:28Speaker 01

  That's right. You don't want leaks.

• 26:29Dr. Darshan Shah?

  No. You don't want leaks, especially in your gut.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and, and a lot of people, you know, these things are coincident with each other. So a lot of people with metabolic disorders also have GI issues. And that overlap is, you know, likely because one of their core issues is a gut microbiome that doesn't have the diversity of all these strains that they need. And so showing up for them as, okay, well, I'm having GI and digestive issues and I also am having metabolic issues. And so when you start to look at this overlap between metabolic issues and gut issues, immune issues and gut issues, you know, stress and anxiety issues and gut issues, you start to realize like, well, the core of that is probably that the microbiome deficiency is causing multiple systems to kind of go awry.

• 27:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And so, so back to the beginning of this conversation, supporting your microbiome is critical and giving your microbiome the food it needs is another critical piece of this. And that includes insoluble and soluble fibers and also the polyphenols.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly, exactly.

• 27:34Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And trying to work that in every day into your daily routines is also critical. So I know you guys have a new product out, Gut Fuel, right? That kind of helps make this an easy transition?

• 27:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, essentially, this is a problem, to your point, here in the US in terms of getting enough fiber into our bodies. And so we really were trying to figure out, how do we get this diversity of fibers? Add in the polyphenols with really a gut centric frame of mind and create a formulation that can help, help people. Basically, we're just making products that I need because I'm one of those people who's not getting enough fiber.

• 28:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I need to, exactly. So what's in Gut Fuel?

• 28:10Speaker 01

  So Gut Fuel has five key ingredients in it. It has resistant potato starch, it has oat beta glucan, it has baobab, acacia, and grape seed extract. And so you get your polyphenols and you get your insoluble and your soluble fibers in this formulation of five ingredients. You'll notice I didn't list inulin because we were handpicking things for people who are sensitive to fibers. And so if you have a sensitive stomach, this is the one on the shelf that's actually going to be for you. So you can get your fibers out worrying about it upsetting your stomach. And then we also designed this to be able to be consumed for ages four years old and up.

• 28:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 28:47Speaker 01

  And that, again, selfishly, is because if you have kids and you've tried to get them to eat the amount of fiber they're supposed to eat, you'll know this is like one of the hardest things to accomplish. They just want to eat all white foods. I mean, at least that's in my experience with my kids.

• 29:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, exactly.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  And so being able to create a formulation that you can, you know, again, I did the sneak of sugar replacing with allulose. If you can sneak these into their food, that is a way for them to be getting their fibers. And, you know, like for me, it's super easy to get my kids to eat things like pancakes and they'll eat sauces and things like that on their pasta. And so this is just nicely melts into that. And we deliberately chose for it to be unflavored so that it can actually be used in cooking. And we've had Michelin star chefs use this in their cooking and just to like show that it can be used in high end cooking and in, you know, with Aunt Jemima pancakes.

• 29:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. And do you, does it change the texture of the food at all or is it, no?

• 29:46Speaker 01

  It is completely soluble. And so you can put it into your mocktails, you can put it into your sauces, you can bake with it. It does not change the texture or the flavor profile of what you're making.

• 29:57Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And that's, that's amazing, especially when you have young kids at home to get them, I mean, you can put it in anything basically that you give them almost, right?

• 30:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and in fact, we recently put it into popsicles.

• 30:07Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Oh, really? And then no?

• 30:09Speaker 01

  No idea.

• 30:09Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Concern of the taste or the, that is awesome. Wow, get fiber into every single meal for them.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. They won't even know it.

• 30:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  They won't even know it. I love it. And then, you know, I always think about also like, you know, poor gut health definitely starts as, as a kid, you know? Like, I think unfortunately, our kids nowadays are born with less diverse microbiome than ever. A lot of that also has to do with like the method of delivery, like, you know, C-sections, we know, you don't go, you don't get your mother's gut bacteria, and this has actually been tested, right? And so like kids, kids are born with a very poor microbiome that adds up very quickly to all the things we talked about, like, you know, poor regulation of their blood glucose and then therefore poor metabolic health, obesity, cardiovascular disease in the future. So it's so important.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  It's true. And you know, it is, it's true. When you're born by C-section versus vaginally, you have a depleted microbiome. If you are entirely formula fed and not breastfed, you have a depleted microbiome. If your mother had a depleted microbiome, we know you will also have a depleted microbiome. If you are preemie and you're on antibiotics in the hospital, you have a depleted microbiome. And if you are being given processed foods as a toddler, you have a depleted microbiome. And so there are a lot of things that are causing kids today to be starting off with that wrong, you know, kind of on the wrong foot. And that microbiome is so important because it is also linked to our immunity. And so in these formative years where your immune system is being developed, it's important

• 31:40Speaker 01

  to have a strong gut microbiome so that it's signaling with your body's immune system. And you know, allergies and asthma and all these things are all part of that. And so I think it is incredibly important for parents to be thinking about their kids' microbiomes. I would say on the plus side, though, is that your microbiome can be changed at any time in your life. So if you're thinking like, oh, my gosh, I was a C-section baby. I was fed formula. I was a preemie and got antibiotics. Like, there is still hope, which is that any day, at any moment, when you decide, you can bolster your gut microbiome through fibers, polyphenols, the right probiotics. So there's, you know, you can start over at any time.

• 32:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, you can, you can fix this, right?

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:18Dr. Darshan Shah?

  For sure. Yeah. You know, like, I think also, like, all those things happen in, when you're born. But then also, I think, you know, parents then, unfortunately, they, they, they find the path of least resistance with their kid by feeding them all these white carbs sometimes, too. And I think there is a certain truth to, I don't know if this hasn't been proven yet or not, but your microbiome is actually telling your brain what it craves, right? And if you have an unhealthy microbiome, you're going to crave ultra-processed foods, refined grains, et cetera. Is that true?

• 32:48Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely. And there are studies showing, and we also did one like this, which showed that if you have, if you're depleted in certain strains, there's actually a food cravings inventory. This is a diagnostic test about food cravings. And it categorizes foods into four different categories: sugars, carbs, fast foods, and high-fat foods. And so when you are depleted in certain microbes, you have cravings for all those things, none of which you really need. And so if you can get the right microbiome in, all of those cravings can go, go, go down.

• 33:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. So, I mean, I think the moral of the story here is just think about your child's diet a little bit differently. Like, if they are only wanting very simple carbs for every single meal, it's actually their microbiome screaming for help, right?

• 33:34Speaker 01

  Yes, exactly. And the other problem with, you know, those so-called empty carbs or that processed food is they're actually hungry more frequently. So they're, not only are they craving the wrong foods that you don't really want them to be consuming, they're also hungry more. And so if you can get fiber into their diet, you're going to help reduce those unwanted cravings. And you're also, it also induces a feeling of fullness. So then they're not going to be needing all of those, you know, chips and snacks in between every meal that were, again, you're just trying to survive as a parent. And, you know, a lot of times you're just giving them something to quiet them down. But I think if you can get more fiber into their diet, it will actually kind of ease all this stuff up. Same for adults, you know, you, these food cravings, we all battle these food cravings. And so any little hack you can do is helpful. And in this case, that hack is fiber.

• 34:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. Adding fiber, I think, also has been shown to decrease visceral fat and fat overall in men. And I think maybe there's new studies in women, but I know in men, there's definitely been studies around that, too. Is this like an effect that you're seeing as well with fiber?

• 34:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, we hear that from people who really are able to now get their fibers and their polyphenols into their, and they're feeding their gut microbiome properly, which is that essentially what comes with these reduced cravings for the foods that are really not benefiting you and the feeling of fullness, is all the health benefits of the things that everyone's always trying to do. Like, oh, gee, how do I eat less food? How do I add more greens to my plate and, you know, less of the bad stuff? Or how do I integrate fasting? Or how do I just consume fewer calories? This is like your body's natural way to get rid of those cravings and to feel full longer. And so you get all those health benefits of all the things that are, for a lot of people, kind of hard to do.

• 35:16Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. That's, it's so important. And then, you know, I also think about like other connections with the gut and our body. Because the gut's connected to everything, right? We talked about gut heart health and gut-brain health. We talked about a lot in previous episodes. But there's also a big connection between our gut and our hormones, right? And I think, you know, we talk about like certain times of a woman's life, for example, like menopause or perimenopause. And I think a lot of the symptoms are related to actually now the microbiome.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's very interesting. And this is pretty new, you know, fresh science that's coming out. But we know that the microbiome can stimulate different hormones. And we know it can stimulate GLP-1. We've talked about that. But it turns out it can also stimulate estrogen and testosterone. And this is very early new science that's coming out. And so we take, you know, estrogen here as an example. Throughout a woman's life, you have a relationship with estrogen for most of it. And so, you know, before you're in puberty, you have pretty low levels of estrogen. When women go through puberty, your estrogen levels, you know, start to really spike up and your ovaries are now producing a ton of estrogen. And then through, between puberty and perimenopause, you're

• 36:25Speaker 01

  on this cycle of estrogen correlated with your menstrual cycle and lots of other feelings, emotions, physical attributes, you know, that any woman can regale you with her personal story of how her estrogen cycles, you know, and menstrual cycles impact her body and her mood. I think almost nobody is immune from that. And then when you start to go through perimenopause, that estrogen, much like when you're going through puberty, you get this big spike, it starts to have a massive decline. And for some women, it's kind of a slower, steady decline. But for some women, it's like a cliff. And the bigger that cliff, the more of a sudden onset of these symptoms that are associated with perimenopause and menopause. And so one of the solutions to that is HRTs. So hormone replacement therapy

• 37:08Speaker 01

  allows you to give your body estrogen back so that if you're on this kind of cliff, it can kind of lower that cliff. And then, you know, it becomes a lot more tolerable to go through this life change. And one of the things that's been discovered is that if you were to map and plot the estrogen levels that go on the decline, and then plot a certain subset of the microbiome, you would see that those microbes literally overlay that line with their steep decline. And these microbes have started to be called, be called the estrobolome. And it's a set of microbes that literally are partnered with your estrogen. The levels of estrogen are like overlapping correlated with these levels of these microbes. And so when you start to go through menopause, they go down and they get depleted. And so

• 37:52Speaker 01

  there is an idea that if you could get the estrobolome, much like HRTs, if you get the estrobolome to be less of a steep curve, that can also help ease the symptoms going through menopause. Now, this is all theoretical right now. It's all scientific literature reviews. There are no products out there. So like, I just don't want people to be like, oh, we should talk about this and there's not a solution. So it, it is, this is early science, but I think that there's a clear opportunity here to go after perimenopause and menopause through the microbiome.

• 38:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  But could like, you know, as far as solutions go, could fiber also be part of the solution to feed that estrobolome?

• 38:26Speaker 01

  Fiber, some of those strains we know are fed by fiber. You know, it's funny, is one of those strains is E. coli.

• 38:32Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Really? Oh, my gosh.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  I, when I read that, I was like, well, I don't feel like we should pursue a product with E. coli in it. That just feels wrong.

• 38:40Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's not a good idea. Right. But E. coli tracks with estrogen levels? Is that what you're saying?

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, interesting.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:46Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's really interesting.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  As part of this estrobolome.

• 38:48Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. The estrobolome also is a collection of bacteria, right? But there's part of the estrobolome that manages the detoxification from, of estrogen, right? How our body eliminates estrogen from our bodies.

• 39:00Speaker 01

  Yes, that's, that's right. Exactly. So just to kind of like step back for a minute, you know, your, your ovaries make estrogen. You have some other organs that make estrogen, but primarily your ovaries are making estrogen. And when that estrogen is made, there's sort of two things that can happen to it. One is it goes into free circulation in your bloodstream. And that's the estrogen that's doing all the signaling and the, the good and the bad and the ugly. And then the other thing that can happen to the estrogen is it goes to the liver. And in the liver, it gets tagged, it gets conjugated. And so that signals for it to go to the gut microbiome. So then, once it goes to the gut microbiome, there's two avenues. One is the microbiome can decide, okay, let's get rid of this estrogen. Or the other is it can take that conjugate off, so deconjugate it, free it up, and send

• 39:44Speaker 01

  it back into the bloodstream. And the decision makers in the microbiome is this estrobolome. So that estrobolome decides, it's the second place that decides how much free estrogen you have versus how much gets thrown out of the body. And so it's an important regulator of estrogen levels. And as we go through menopause, if you look at women who are post-menopausal, who have, you know, almost no estrogen, the same as, you know, women that are pre-puberty or girls that are pre-puberty, you also see that post-menopausal, the estrobolome is gone. Like, it doesn't have, it's not serving its purpose anymore. And so you have these different mechanisms in your microbiome that are very much there to serve you at different stages of your life.

• 40:22Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah. It's so interesting how the microbiome tracks with the different stages of our life, you know? And having a healthy microbiome really does track with good health through those different stages.

• 40:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think it's also part of the complexity and conundrum of answering the question, what is a healthy microbiome? It has a lot to do with what stage of life are you in? What, you know, health challenges do you have? What are you eating? Have you gone on antibiotic recently and all these things? And so I, you know, I think really the answer to what is a healthy gut microbiome is what is a resilient gut microbiome? What is going to be the right microbiome at all these different stages? And, and how are you going to have resilience through all the things that are kind of attacking your body and your microbiome? And there's some interesting new studies that have come out showing that as we age, certain people who are, who age more healthy have a more adaptable

• 41:14Speaker 01

  microbiome. Meaning that actually, if your microbiome changes more as you age, you have, you are aging in a more healthy way. And, and at first, this is sort of confusing because you think like, oh, you want your old microbiome to look like you're a young person's microbiome? Isn't that what we're all striving for? And the truth is, no, actually, what you want is a microbiome that is, is kind of evolved to what you're facing as an older person. So we think about things like bone health or hormone changes. The strong microbiomes are actually the ones that evolve and change. And so it's pretty cool, all the new stuff that we're learning.

• 41:49Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Very cool.

• 41:54Dr. Darshan Shah?

  This episode was brought to you by Nex Health, a health optimization and longevity clinic located in Los Angeles, Manhattan, and soon to be opening in Montecito, Nashville, Miami, and many other cities in the United States and Canada. Nex Health is the Apple Store of wellness, where you can optimize your health span and lifespan using cutting-edge technology. I actually founded Nex Health eight years ago to give my patients a place to go get extensive biomarker testing done and provide them with all the tools that I use to get my health in order. The longevity circuit in Nex Health using hyperbaric oxygen, sauna, cryotherapy, and LED light is a game changer. In addition, the doctors at Nex Health measure thousands of biomarkers and put into place

• 42:39Dr. Darshan Shah?

  a longevity optimization plan using advanced tools like ozone, plasma exchange, and peptides. Go to www.nex.health to check it out.

• 42:52Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Are you saying that there's a tie-in with the microbiome and bone health? Like, for example, like a lot of women, once they lose their estrogen, also their bone health goes really severely and very quickly into osteoporosis. Can the microbiome, actually having a healthy microbiome, help prevent some of that bone loss?

• 43:09Speaker 01

  There haven't been any clinical trials really tackling that, but there are a lot of preclinical trials and certainly correlative data showing that the microbiome might play an important role in bone health.

• 43:19Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Wow, yeah. So it's becoming more and more, you know, this is why I love talking to you. It's just becoming more and more important, this topic of the microbiome and having optimal gut health. What I find is so kind of funny is that the solutions have been there for years, decades, like fiber, right? We keep talking about fiber, but I think the science is more clear about why fiber now. It's, you know, feeding the microbiome is critical.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  That's right. And I think there's still a lot to be uncovered, but you're right, we've known about fiber for a very long time and people have experienced the benefits of fiber. And there's a lot of clinical studies showing the benefits of fiber. And that is all kind of now being tied in with the science of the microbiome. And I think there's still a lot more left to be uncovered.

• 44:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, I'm so excited with all the research that you guys are doing at your company and putting out products that really make sense for people and make it easy. Because, you know, like I was saying at the beginning of this episode, people are putting five scoops of things into their morning smoothie or their coffee and they don't even know what they're using anymore. And I think consolidating it into one product just makes a ton of sense.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think also if you are, you know, again, if you're not able to get that full fiber dose, this is an easy way just to like add it in and supplement it in the food you're already eating or the beverages you're already taking. Or if you're, you have pill fatigue and you're like, I don't want to take all these different probiotics. If you're actually able to get fiber and polyphenols, you're going to feed those strains, so you're in good shape.

• 44:41Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. And so if you are on probiotics, having the prebiotics actually helps those probiotics work better.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Absolutely, absolutely. And if you're able to get those probiotics to colonize or if you have a shot at getting those probiotics to colonize, that shot is going to be having the right prebiotics. So fiber and polyphenols are, if you're trying to get colonization, that's going to be an easier way because you're giving them their food.

• 45:03Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, you know, I love your Akkermansia product. I take it myself because I, you know, I have a family history and my own personal history of having really high blood sugar levels. And I just measured it again last week. And so it was 5.2 was my hemoglobin A1C, which is super healthy, you know?

• 45:19Speaker 01

  Nice, yeah.

• 45:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And I've been able to maintain that because of being on your supplement, I think is a big part of this. But also, you know, I use a continuous glucose monitor to measure my glucose levels on a more continual basis, two or three times a year, just to kind of learn what my glucose is doing. And I think, you know, for, that gives me that feedback that I need to just know that what I'm doing is working, right?

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 45:43Dr. Darshan Shah?

  And so I'm a big fan of CGMs, and I'm wondering if that has any role here with utilizing like a fiber supplement as well?

• 45:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, you know, certainly, you know, you as a practitioner, think about the 360 of, what are all the different tools in the toolbox? And I think CGMs are playing a really important role in that. And, you know, I don't know if you, you probably have a personal story or you know of stories of where people wore CGM and it literally changed how certain foods they eat or sequencing of foods. I don't know if you've had.

• 46:14Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I have hundreds of stories like that on patients, but definitely for me, it was a big realization for me when I started wearing a CGM that eating carbohydrates at the beginning of my meal is a disaster for me. And even having any carbohydrates in my breakfast is also a disaster. And by carbohydrate, I mean starchy carbohydrates and sugars and refined carbs, not fiber. Fiber is also a carb, but I always put that in a separate category. And so switching that to putting fiber in my breakfast and having more fiber in my meals, specifically at the front part of the meal, has been a game changer. And that's what I've been able to keep my blood glucose stable for, you know, now close to a decade because of this, because of using the CGM.

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Absolutely. And I think that is a major hack. You can literally eat the same foods, but the sequencing of them can change your blood glucose spike. So if you're having a pasta dinner with a salad, don't start with the pasta, start with the salad. And when you have a tracker, like a continuous glucose monitor, it makes it really clear for you how that is, that sequencing of food is really changing your blood glucose spike. So again, a push for the importance of fiber and getting fiber early in the meal and its role in helping you to manage blood glucose spikes. But I think if you can see what's happening, you then know, are these products working for me? And I think that's important because we don't want people to blindly take products, you know, including ours, and not know, is this really benefiting me? And so there are certain things you can feel.

• 47:40Speaker 01

  You can feel if your digestion is better. Some people can feel when they have less sugar highs and sugar lows. Me and I think many people have no idea when your sugar is spiking or not, and you don't have a feeling if your A1C went up. But if you wear a continuous glucose monitor, that allows you to really see, is the product working for me? And it also allows you to see, what are these different kind of hacks that I can do to help lower my blood glucose spikes for, for healthy aging? And so we are a big fan of people using, pairing the CGMs with our fiber product, with our probiotics. And you prove to yourself like, okay, this thing is worth the expense.

• 48:15Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right, right. I think having that data is such a great time right now in human history. We have so much access to data about our bodies that we've never had before. It's all coming right now in wearables and blood tests and CGMs. And use that data. You can see what's working and what's not. And like, some of this stuff works for the majority of the people, like fiber, definitely that's just what we're built to, as humans, to use to feed our gut microbiome and also keep our gut moving, et cetera. We just know it works for most people, but you can prove it to yourself pretty easily with the data. CGM being one of them, about blood glucose, blood tests like hemoglobin A1C, we talked about LDL cholesterol, even inflammation, EHS CRP is an inflammatory marker

• 48:58Dr. Darshan Shah?

  that you'll also see kind of go down when you get your fiber intake, right? So we have a lot of tools now to.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  And measuring hormone levels.

• 49:04Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, that too.

• 49:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Right? Yeah, it's a great time to be living and great products out there now that make it easy and enjoyable to still, you know, you have to still enjoy your diet, right? I was just talking to Joey Munoz about this. Is that, you know, if a dietary pattern becomes non-enjoyable, there's no way you're going to stick to it. And having like a fiber supplement that you don't even notice is there, but it still gets you what you need while managing your health, it keeps your diet enjoyable.

• 49:29Speaker 01

  It does. And I think also the other thing that happens for many of us is we go on health cycles. There are times when you're, you're doing all the great stuff, you're being very healthy, and then there's times where you're just, you know, either because you're stressed or whatever, you're not doing all the right things you're supposed to be doing. And here's where having that kind of a supplement that you can add and it doesn't change the profile of your cheeseburger.

• 49:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Exactly.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Sprinkle it right on, you know, your ketchup. It's okay, I think, to be able to have those gives because you want to enjoy life. Life is meant to be lived and enjoyed. And so anything we can do to also be healthy during those periods where we're having, you know, having those, you know, those moments of weakness, I think that's important and to give ourselves forgiveness for that. And so being able to measure things, I think, is awesome. Trying to do the right thing by our health is awesome. But I think enjoying life is really an important thing to remember. And so any extremes, you know, extreme diets and things like that are probably not sustainable for most of us. And then one other kind of like caveat about fiber is fiber maxing is sort of having, is sort of a trending thing right now.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  And I just want to warn people that I actually think fiber maxing is being funded by toilet paper companies.

• 50:45Dr. Darshan Shah?

  That's hilarious.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  But you, you know, don't start with the fiber maxing. So if you don't have a lot of fiber in your diet and you're just getting started in here, like, please ease your body into it. You know, don't even start with a full dose of, you know, don't go straight from, I get five grams of fiber to 30 grams of fiber a day. It's going to be very painful, you know? Step your way up into it. And similarly with our product, if you're like, oh, great, now here's how I can get all my fiber, just ease into it because it's, it can be painful.

• 51:11Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, yeah. And I definitely want to give your body time to accommodate it, but the long-term health benefits are undeniable. So definitely, definitely.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Try to get there.

• 51:20Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah, exactly, try to get there. Well, Colleen, this has been another amazing conversation with you. Thank you so much for being on the pod. And where can people find Gut Fuel?

• 51:28Speaker 01

  Thanks so much for having me and going deep on fiber. You can find Gut Fuel and information about fiber at pendulumlife.com. And there's also a bunch of information just about your gut microbiome in general. And so I'm happy to answer any questions there. If you're a healthcare provider, we have a separate section for you that has protocols and things that are being used by practitioners. So please check us out at pendulumlife.com.

• 51:51Dr. Darshan Shah?

  I love it. And I learned a lot from your social media. What's your social media handle?

• 51:55Speaker 01

  Dr. Colleen.

• 51:56Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you. People should follow Dr. Colleen for sure.

• 52:00Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 52:01Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been an absolute pleasure.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, it was fun.

• 52:05Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Yeah.

• 52:08Dr. Darshan Shah?

  Thank you so much for listening to the podcast today. Please remember to subscribe if you liked this episode and give us a good review and share a link with your friends. It really helps to support all of our efforts. I also want to remind you that the information shared on this podcast is for educational purposes only and is not intended to replace professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Please consult with your healthcare provider or physician before making any decisions or taking any action based on what you hear today, especially if you have any underlying health conditions or on any medications. Your doctor knows your personal health situation the best and it's always important to seek their guidance.