Should I max out my 401(k)?

Should you max out your 401(k)? If you’re making good money, already saving consistently, and have extra cash flow, it can feel like the obvious next step. But maxing out your 401(k) is not automatically the best financial decision — especially if most of your money is tied up in retirement accounts and you want more flexibility before age 65. In this episode of She’s Talkin’ Money, I’m breaking down how I actually think through this question with clients. We’ll talk about when employer matching matters, where Roth accounts fit in, why liquidity deserves more attention, and why a taxable brokerage account may sometimes make more sense than immediately increasing your 401(k) contribution. I’m also challenging one of the most common pieces of retirement advice: that if you’re not maxing out your 401(k), you’re somehow falling behind. Because the goal isn’t to hit an arbitrary contribution limit. The goal is to build a financial life that gives you options. We’ll cover: what I want to know before telling someone to increase their 401(k) the order I typically think about saving and investing why Roth money can be such a powerful part of your plan the difference between an emergency fund and what I call a “freedom fund” why net worth and financial flexibility are not the same thing when the tax deduction from a traditional 401(k) is actually worth prioritizing and when maxing out your 401(k) may make perfect sense If you’re in your 40s, earning well, and starting to wonder whether you really want to work the same way until traditional retirement age, this episode is for you. Don’t make yourself retirement rich and life poor. Be sure to share this episode with a friend! Shari Rash is a financial planner and Investment Adviser Representative of GWA Wealth, a Registered Investment Adviser. This podcast is for educational purposes only and is not personalized investment, tax, or legal advice. Nothing discussed should be considered a recommendation, and listening does not create an advisory relationship. Investing involves risk, including possible loss of principal. Please consult your own financial, tax, or legal professional before making decisions based on your individual circumstances. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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• 1:25Speaker 03

  Welcome to She's Talking Money, the money podcast for women doing well on paper. I'm Shari Rash, a financial planner with 20 years in personal finance, founder of GWA Wealth, and I am deeply invested in helping women actually understand their money. If you make good money, save, invest, and still find yourself wondering, am I doing enough? Am I making the right decisions? What should I be doing next? This show is for you. We're going beyond basic budgeting advice and talking about what it really takes to put your money to work. Investment, retirement, savings, taxes, major financial decisions, and the emotional side of money

• 2:08Speaker 03

  that can make even successful women second guess themselves. And if you've been with me from Everyone's Talkin Money, welcome back. The name has changed, but the mission is sharper. Helping women who are doing well on paper feel just as confident in real life. This is She's Talkin Money. Let's get into it.

• 2:37Speaker 03

  So let's start with a question that I'm sure a lot of you have asked, maybe even Googled at one time or another. Should I max out my 401K? On the surface, this sounds like an easy yes. If you're making good money, saving consistently, and you have extra cash flow, maxing out your 401K sounds like the responsible next move. But I don't think the answer should be automatic. Maxing out your 401K is not the goal. Building a financial life that gives you options is the goal. And I think a lot of times people look at like the means to the end as the goal, like the means like, so my goal is to max out my 401K.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  My goal is to have X amount in the bank. My goal is to have Y amount in my investments. But that's not, that's not the goal. That's what we need to do in order to achieve the goal. But we need to think about what are we actually achieving? And this is the phrase I'm probably going to say a couple of times throughout the episode, and I want you to keep it in the back of your mind. Don't make yourself retirement rich and life poor. Because you can have a lot of money saved for retirement and still not have enough flexibility for the life you're actually living now.

• 4:02Speaker 03

  I have this conversation a lot with my clients, women in their 40s, making good money, potentially multiple six figures, and they're already contributing to their 401Ks. Maybe she has some extra cash now and is thinking, okay, I'm just going to, you know, keep contributing until I hit the max, which every year that number changes, but it's like $27,000 or so, depending on your age. But then there's another layer. She's tired. She's starting to wonder whether working until 65 is realistic. Maybe she wants to try a new career.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Maybe she wants to earn less and have more time. Maybe she doesn't even know exactly what she wants yet or what she wants to do when she grows up. We all, I think, can relate to that a little bit. She just knows she cannot picture herself staying in the same job or being promoted for another 20 or 25 years. That changes the question. Now it's not just, how much can I save for retirement? It's how can I build enough money that I have choices before retirement?

• 5:22Speaker 03

  So if, and a lot of times, again, like I said, this woman is sitting down in front of me and she's saying, should I max out my 401K? I feel like that is the right thing to do. And on paper, it may be right, the right thing to do. Depending on the article you read, what you Google, should I max out my 401K? The answer may be yes. I am not as quick to just give a blanket answer. A lot of times when people ask me questions about their finances, I'm asking questions back. Because how can I give complete advice without knowing everything? So you are not going to hear me go,

• 6:07Speaker 03

  yes, absolutely, max out your 401K when someone asks me that question. Instead, I want to know, well, how much are you contributing now? Does your employer offer a match? How much is already in your 401K? Does the plan offer a Roth 401K option? What other savings do you have? What other investment accounts do you have? Why are you saving? What are you saving for outside retirement? And here's the big one. Why are you asking me this? That question tells me a lot of what I want to know. Because sometimes should I max out my 401K really means I have extra money and I don't know what to do with it.

• 6:52Speaker 03

  Sometimes it means I feel behind. Sometimes it means I think I pay too much in taxes. Sometimes it means I've heard that successful people max out the retirement account. So naturally, that's what I'm supposed to do. Those are not all the same problem. So I want to get to the why behind the question. And if it's just influence from outside, we're really going to stop and digest that because that may not be a reason enough to max out your 401K. And one of the biggest things people get wrong is believing that maxing out a 401K is the only way to be serious about retirement.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  Like, I can't even think about retirement if I'm not maxing out my 401K. It's, it's not that a 401K is one tool. And when I also say 401K, if you work for a nonprofit, a hospital, a university, you have likely a 403B. They, they're interchangeable. So when I say 401K, I also mean 403B for the nonprofit sector. But your 401K is not your retirement plan, right? Again, we get mixed up with thinking, well, I'm contributing to my 401K. That means I have a plan for retirement. No, that's just the steps you're taking.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  But how do we know those are even the right steps? So contributing to your 401K is not your plan for retirement. It's just one element of saving for retirement and getting to achieve that goal of one day retiring. If you aren't maxing out your 401K, that does not mean you're failing. And that also does not necessarily mean you're not contributing enough to retirement. You could be, you could be. Because again, if you, if you think about 401K contributions, it's always a percentage of your salary, right? So what percentage of your salary are you contributing to your retirement account?

• 9:02Speaker 03

  If, just because one person's 3% is not the same as someone else's 3%. If you make $100,000 a year and you contribute 3%, you're contributing three grand. If you make $200,000 a year and you contribute 3%, you're contributing $6,000. So even the percentages aren't equal, the percentages are different dollar amounts. So by saying, well, they're contributing 10%, I must be behind. Well, their 10% dollar amount, maybe your 4% dollar amount, right? So that's where we also get, get confused or kind of wrapped up in like the drama of it all. Because it's like, oh, I need to increase my percentage.

• 9:47Speaker 03

  When actually, the dollar amount you may be contributing could actually be perfectly fine. But we've turned contribution limits into this weird achievement badge. Like, if you hit the contribution limit that you feel is appropriate, it's like, hey, congratulations, you're good with money. But the IRS contribution or even your 401K plan does not know when you want to stop working, whether you hate your job, whether you want to start a business, whether you're going to need cash in five years, whether you have aging parents, whether you want to move, whether you're going through a divorce, whether you want to take a year off and travel and go on a sabbatical and find yourself.

• 10:34Speaker 03

  The IRS contribution limit is not your financial plan. It is not the gold standard of contributing to retirement. It's a number. And why, and we put so much weight on, on your number that we just think that it's, that's the only way. That's, that's the only, that's just, that's the IRS limiting how much, one, you can contribute to your 401k pre-tax to reduce your taxable income. Because they don't want your taxable income reduced by too much. Because then that's less taxes you're paying each year. Right?

• 11:14Speaker 03

  Or conversely, they don't want so much put into a Roth 401k, for example, because then that creates a whole ton of money for retirement that you're never going to pay taxes on. So instead of looking at the IRS contribution limit as like, this is the Mecca of, of, of my, my contributions. And like, this is what I have to achieve to be a good person as far as money goes. It's just suggestions, right? If we don't hit it, no big deal. If we do hit it, okay, great. But it, it, this, this number that has been created, we put so much weight into.

• 12:02Speaker 00

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• 12:30Speaker 03

  I don't know about you, but when a friend recommends a podcast to me, I'm way more likely to actually go listen to it. So if you're listening and there's someone who comes to mind while you're listening, someone who would get something out of this episode, someone you've actually talked about these things with before, text it to her. That's one of the easiest ways to help more women find She's Talkin Money. And I'd really appreciate it. I'm so glad you're here. Let's invite more people and make it a party.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  Okay, so here's my actual order of operations. This is how I think about it. First, contribute enough to get the employer match. If your employer is giving you a match, I want you to capture it. If you're not, you're literally leaving money on the table. Like, and if we were sitting one-on-one, I'd be like, that, that can't happen. You are losing money. So whatever it is, right? And again, these are all like made up numbers. Like, so if your employer, a lot of employers will do like 50% of the first 6% they're going to match. So you have to contribute 6% in order to get their 3%.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  If you only contribute 4%, then you're only getting a 2% match. Okay? So, and, and again, this, the, we, we're so fixated on the percentages, but think about that dollar amount. How much dollar amount are you contributing? And how much dollar amount are they matching? So whatever your match is, go look it up. Make sure you're contributing that amount at a minimum. Okay? That's easy first step. If there's no match, then I'm not saying don't contribute to the 401k, but it may no longer be the automatic first place every extra dollar goes.

• 14:29Speaker 03

  So if your employer doesn't offer a match, how much are you contributing now to it? And, and does that work for your life? The purpose of this episode is to get you thinking. Instead of just going to the default of like, yes, I should max out my 401k. I want you to think about things. I don't want you to just take the blanket advice that's out there. Look at the advice, consider it, and then apply it to your personal situation. That's financial planning. Look at what is the contribution amount that you're, you're, you're contributing right now? If you're not getting a match, okay? And is that percentage doable for you?

• 15:13Speaker 03

  It may be 6%, maybe 7%, it may be 4%, it may be zero. I'm not, I'm not that worried. I just want to get an idea of what you're contributing to your plan. Okay? Second, once we're contributing enough to get the match, we're contributing something if you don't have a match. Next is we're building your emergency fund. So before we start locking more and more money into retirement, and by doing those like, oh, I'm increasing my percentage by 1% every year, I want to make sure you have actual cash available. And your emergency fund has a specific job. It's not vacation money. It's not renovation money. It's not, I want a new car money.

• 15:57Speaker 03

  This is money for legitimate financial emergencies. Next, I want to start considering Roth money. I'm a big fan of Roth accounts. If your employer offers a Roth 401k, that is really worth considering because you don't have the same income limits that you have with a Roth IRA. Not everyone can contribute directly to a Roth IRA. If you make too much money, quote unquote, and the IRS determines how much too much money is, you cannot directly contribute to a Roth IRA. But if your employer offers a Roth 401k, there are no income limits to contribute to a Roth 401k. And that is huge.

• 16:41Speaker 03

  And that is a misconception I have a lot of times when I'm working with clients. They're like, wait, I thought I wasn't eligible for a Roth. A Roth IRA, correct, you may not be eligible for, but a Roth 401k, you can contribute to that all day long. If, if you're listening going, what, what on earth is a Roth? Or I, I've heard it's good, but, but what is it? Let me tell you. With Roth money, you're choosing to pay taxes now in exchange for tax-free qualified withdrawals later. So you pay, so, so you pay taxes now, you, you swallow the pill of paying our government,

• 17:20Speaker 03

  and then that money grows, tax-deferred, and then withdrawn, tax-free, assuming you follow all the rules of the Roth. So your $10,000 you have today, if it grows to $90,000, that, a, a $100,000, that $90,000 worth of earnings, you're not paying taxes on in retirement. That's pretty awesome. I like Roths because one, I like the idea of never having to pay taxes in retirement. Right? That's pretty sweet. And also I like having flexibility. And if you're like, well, I'm 40 some years old and all I've done is contribute to pre-tax.

• 18:05Speaker 03

  Am I screwed? Like, was that a big mistake? No. I mean, look at all the money you've saved for retirement. That's awesome. That's great. But like, hey, let's maybe consider a Roth. Like, maybe we make a pivot. Maybe your plan, your 401k, your company does offer a Roth. Let's pivot and start maybe potentially contributing there. I don't want every single retirement dollar you have sitting in a traditional pre-tax account where every withdrawal later is taxable. I had this conversation with clients a few weeks ago. They, they're retired and they have a lot of money in retirement.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  Plenty of money, but it's all pre-tax. And they said, well, we want to buy a second home. It'll be a second home for now, but then in a couple of years, we want to permanently relocate there. So they're not selling their primary residence right now, but they want to get the second home. All of their money is in pre-tax retirement accounts. They have a little bit of after-tax savings, but not enough to fund the stream that they have. So I have to have the conversation with them of, if you want to pay cash for this second property, you are going to have to withdraw that money from your retirement account.

• 19:30Speaker 03

  And you're going to pay taxes on every single dollar of it. And that's in addition to the money you're already using to live off of. So yeah, you're likely going to get pumped up into a high tax bracket. You could be paying 32% federal tax on this withdrawal because it's a very substantial amount of money they need to withdraw. And they're frustrated. And I don't blame them for being frustrated. It's like, we have this money. Now it feels like we're being punished for using it. Well, the government's answer to that is, hey, we let you defer taxes, reduce your taxable income for your whole working life and not pay taxes on income on the earnings. So now, yeah, when you want to make a withdrawal,

• 20:15Speaker 03

  you owe us money, which I get, it makes sense, right? But if we had some alternative funds, if we had Roth, if we had

• 20:29Speaker 03

  after-tax investment accounts and we saved more money in this, knowing, and unfortunately, they came to me when they were knocking on retirement store, or I would have intervened in this. But if I, if I had said to them, you know, years ago, hey, what are your goals? And if they said, we think we're going to relocate. We think we want a second home. Then yeah, maybe we would have pivoted a little bit to create after-tax money that they could use in retirement, but not have a big tax bill on it. So the Roth allows that. The Roth allows you to take those big withdrawals in retirement, or any withdrawal in retirement, and not pay taxes on that money.

• 21:12Speaker 03

  Again, according, assuming you follow the rules of the Roth. So saving doesn't equal saving, doesn't equal saving. You could max out your 401k pre-tax every year for your entire working life and have a big pile of money in retirement. But you may end up frustrated because it doesn't give you the flexibility that you were looking for. Also, with pre-tax retirement money, when you hit, right now it's age 73. When you hit age 73, you are required to make distributions from your IRA accounts, your pre-tax accounts. If you're retired, it's called required minimum distributions.

• 21:57Speaker 03

  The government tells you how much you need to withdraw based on their calculations. Why? So you can start paying taxes on that money or so they can get more tax revenue from you. Again, clients will come to me and be like, but I don't want to take out this money. Too bad, so sad. We have to because you are now 73 years old. You're of RMD age. You have to start taking those withdrawals and paying your taxes. So for me, when someone comes to me and says, should I max out my 401k? There's so many more things that come to my mind. And this is not just about how much I'm saving. It's also, what kind of money am I building?

• 22:40Speaker 03

  What, what's, what do I want my money to do for me in the future? Future doesn't always necessarily just mean retirement. The future could mean five years from now, three years from now, 15 years from now. So we want to make sure we have multiple ways of building money to diversify. Diversification of your investments is important, but diversification of the tax treatment of your money is so important as well. So what are, what am I building for? What am I trying to achieve? So we talked about getting your match of your 401k, building your emergency fund, making sure you have cash. Then potentially exploring Roth options.

• 23:26Speaker 03

  Next, we want to consider building money outside of retirement accounts. So this is the part I think a lot of people skip. I want you to have money that is invested, but is still accessible. And that is a taxable brokerage account. This is for the woman who says, I may want to leave corporate America at 50. I would absolutely consider building that account, even if you haven't maxed out your 401k. Why? Because all that money that you're building in your 401k that you may need because you are leaving your corporate job at 50, you don't have access to without paying a 10% penalty.

• 24:08Speaker 03

  Because you can access your 401k money at 59 and a half without taxes or penalties. So if that's even a thought, I want to leave my job. I want to start a business. I want to do something else prior to 59 and a half. Then we really want to consider outside investment accounts. In my opinion, and this could be a hot take, but I'm willing to back it up. It is financially irresponsible to have no liquidity. And your retirement accounts are not liquid. The equity in your home is not liquid. So like, maybe I'll do another episode on this, but like paying extra to your mortgage.

• 24:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, it helps to reduce your debt, but that's not liquid money. It is financially irresponsible to have no liquidity. That's the real issue, liquidity. This is the section I care most about because we've been taught, put it in your 401k, save more, max out your 401k. And 100%, I want you to save. You're never going to hear me say, don't save money. But a lot of life happens between your first job and retirement. You may need money before 65, and not because you screwed up, but because you changed your mind, because life changed, because an opportunity came up. I mean, what if someone presents you with like a life-changing opportunity? And you can't do it because you don't have the liquid cash for it? How bad does that suck?

• 25:37Speaker 03

  How much would you be kicking yourself? You could have a million dollars at 45 in your 401k, but not have the liquidity to, you know, buy into a business or buy a piece of land that like is perfect for you. Anything. You, you could have a large net worth and still feel trapped. If you have $700,000 in retirement accounts and very little outside of them, your balance sheet still looks great, like you look great on paper. But can you quit your job? Can you take six months off? Can you take a job that pays you $50,000 a year less? Can you start your own business? Can you help a family member?

• 26:22Speaker 03

  Can you bridge yourself to retirement early? Maybe not. So I want to make this distinction. Net worth is not the same thing as financial flexibility. Once your emergency fund is funded, I want you to think beyond emergencies. I've talked about sinking funds before. That is the cash needed for like the vacations, the big bills, the stuff that comes up once or twice a year that like we can never plan for. Sinking funds are super important. But I want to talk now about freedom funds. I like the idea of a freedom fund. Your emergency fund is for something going wrong. Your freedom fund is for something going right. Maybe you have the chance to leave a job. Maybe you want to take a sabbatical. Maybe you want to move. Maybe you want to start a business.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Maybe you want to scale back work. Maybe you want to retire before you can, before, earlier, before that 59 and a half rule, where that's when you can access traditional retirement accounts. So your money may be split between cash for your short-term needs, sinking funds for known goals, and taxable investments for a longer-term flexibility. And this is also important, and this trips up people a lot. Just because an account isn't called a retirement account, doesn't mean you can't use it for retirement. A taxable brokerage account can absolutely be part of your retirement plan and what funds your retirement. Okay? So just because we're, we're, we're saving into a account that isn't an individual retirement account

• 27:51Speaker 03

  or a 401k or 403B retirement account, doesn't mean we can't use this money for retirement. But the beauty, the beauty of the freedom fund, AKA a taxable brokerage account, is that it can wear so many hats. It can be my retirement fund. It can be my, I want to start a business in five years fund. It can be my, I want to buy a second home fund. It can be my, this is what I'm using to pay for my kid's college fund. Okay? So it can absolutely be part of your retirement plan, but can also be so many other things. So the tax element, though, is where people really push back on me about this, this whole concept.

• 28:35Speaker 03

  So I'll, here's a conversation I'll have all the time. Shari, I make $200,000. I pay a ton in taxes. Why would I put another $10,000 into a taxable account when I could put that money into my traditional pre-tax 401k and reduce my taxable income? It's a very fair question. No one enjoys paying taxes. And we often think about today, ourselves today, when we think about paying taxes, we think about that potential check we're writing to the government in April. Or really, it's not a check anymore. They're just reaching into your checking account and pulling that money out when you owe taxes.

• 29:18Speaker 03

  But we think about that person today. We're not thinking about future retirement self or the whole pile of money.

• 29:30Speaker 03

  You know, um, when we add it all together, how much we're paying in retirement, we're just thinking about, I want to reduce my taxable income today and pay less today. So when someone says that to me, I pay a ton in taxes, why would I pay more taxes than I need to? My first question is like, let's define a ton, let's quantify it. Because sometimes we make decisions based on, I hate paying taxes, rather than what is this actually saving me? If putting an additional $10,000 in your traditional 401k, saves you a couple thousand dollars in federal taxes this year, that's real money, right? It could, you know, $10,000 if you're in the 24% tax bracket of just doing quick napkin math,

• 30:15Speaker 03

  like maybe $2,400 it could save you, potentially. I'm not saying that's anything to sneeze at, but now I want to ask, is saving 24 ish, $100 in taxes today, worth giving up access to 10 grand for the future? Like a year from now, six months from now, five years from now, that's the trade off. The tax deduction is the benefit. It should not automatically be the deciding factor. I don't want someone making a 20 year financial decision because they are irritated by this year's tax bill.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  Because with that $10,000, you are paying the taxes on it today, and then you're never paying taxes on it again. If it's a Roth 401k, for example, or if you're putting it into an after tax brokerage account, yeah, you're paying capital gains tax on the, the, the realized gains each year potentially, but it's not, the $10,000 is not becoming a big pile of money that has a 30% IOU to the government.

• 31:29Speaker 03

  So this is where I explain the trade off without pretending there's one perfect answer. There's not a perfect answer. So everything has pros and cons, and that's why we need to weigh them out, which is why we don't just jump into saying, yes, you should max out your 401k, or no, you should not. So with the traditional 401k, you get the tax benefit now, but you pay taxes on every withdrawal you have later on. You also have to start withdrawing, whether you like it or not, or not at 73. And also any money you, you, you pass to your beneficiaries is taxable to them, and there are rules as to how they have to distribute the money.

• 32:11Speaker 03

  With a Roth 401k, there are no tax deductions now, you pay the taxes now, but then there's qualified withdrawals are tax free later. Nobody knows what tax rates are going to look like decades from now. So the, so to me, the question becomes, do you want to take the tax savings today? Would you know exactly what tax rates are? Or do you value paying taxes now at a known rate and building tax free money later? So dodge the taxes today when rates are, believe it or not, kind of low. Doesn't feel that way, but they are. Or pay the taxes today at a known rate,

• 32:55Speaker 03

  and then we never have to worry about what tax rates are again, at least for this pile of money. There isn't one correct answer. But I do not think I want to reduce my taxes this year is enough by itself to dictate the entire decision. That is not the driver. So, okay, you're probably thinking, well, when would I actually max it out? Because you're giving me reasons why I shouldn't. So this is, to be very clear, I'm not anti 401k, I'm not anti maxing out your 401k. I may say, yeah, max out if you have a fully funded emergency fund, if you have other accessible savings, if you've built investments outside of retirement,

• 33:38Speaker 03

  if you've addressed that Roth tax diversification issue. And addressing it doesn't mean, well, just automatically opening up a Roth. Addressing it means thinking about it, considering, considering it and making a informed decisions. I may say yes to maxing out if your near term goals are funded, if you have flexibility and retirement really is the best use of your next dollar. If you, we can answer yes to those questions, yeah, increase the contribution and maybe even max it out. But I'm not going to tell you to max it because that's what financially responsible people do. That's because that's not necessarily true. I want to know what that money is supposed to accomplish.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  So let's bring it home. Let's bring it back to the people I've sat, I've had these conversations with. My 42 year old client making $200,000, doing well, but she knows she does not want her job to rule her life for the next 23 years when she can retire at 65. If we put every extra dollar she has into her retirement accounts, we may build her a very comfortable, beautiful life at 65, but I'm also interested in what happens to her life at 50, at 55, at 48. What if she wants out? Her financial plan should be preparing for that version of her too.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  So the question I want you all to stop asking is, should I max out everything? The better question is, what does my next dollar need to do for me? Does it need to protect me? Does it need to grow? Does it need to reduce taxes? Does it need to stay accessible? Does it need to fund retirement, create flexibility, give me choices? And I'll tell you, my friends, there is no one right answer. And that's the point. Because financial planning takes our life into consideration, what's going on with us? So there's not one rule that fits every single person. We need to take the advice and shape it for our lives. So remember, don't make yourself retirement rich and life poor.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  At 40, your money shouldn't just be preparing you for retirement, it should be preparing you to do whatever you want. So should you max out your 401k? Maybe, but I don't want you chasing a contribution limit just because you think that's what being good with money is supposed to look like. Because your money should not just be preparing you for retirement someday. It should be preparing you to do whatever you want next. And please, don't make yourself retirement rich and life poor. If this episode made you think of someone, send it to her. That is one of the best ways you can help more women find she's talking money. Thank you so much for joining me.

• 36:32Speaker 03

  I'm Sharie, and I'll talk to you next week.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

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• 37:26Speaker 05

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