Are you feeling Disrupted?

The Equity crew is back with another live recording from the Moscone Center in San Francisco for TechCrunch Disrupt 2023. Alex, Kirsten and Becca sat down to recap a very busy (and dare we say successful) event, and walk through our favorite moments for the listeners who couldn't make it out this year. Here's what we got into: Providing early liquidity to founders and employees What advice VCs are giving their early stage founders Why Cruise might join the call to ban human drivers in city centers And why Shaq can do whatever he wants. We recorded shortly before the winner of Startup Battlefield was announced, but you can get caught up on that here. Now, it's time to fly back home. Equity will be back to our regularly scheduled programing bright and early Monday morning! Talk then. For episode transcripts and more, head to Equity’s Simplecast website. Equity drops at 7 a.m. PT every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, so subscribe to us on Apple Podcasts, Overcast, Spotify and all the casts. TechCrunch also has a great show on crypto, a show that interviews founders and more! Credits: Equity is produced by Theresa Loconsolo with editing by Kell. Bryce Durbin is our Illustrator. We'd also like to thank the audience development team and Henry Pickavet, who manages TechCrunch audio products. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Hello and welcome back to Equity, TechCrunch's venture capital focused podcast where we unpack the numbers and the nuance behind the headlines. We are here on the third floor of Moscone. It is disrupt day three. I have Becca and Kirsten and oh my gosh, we are alive and we are going to survive this conference. I'm proud of us frankly.

• 0:28Speaker 01

  That's a little premature. We've still got a whole day left.

• 0:30Speaker 00

  No, we've like half a day left and oh, I mean, my day three is very relaxed. I'm just doing a couple of podcasts and a Yahoo Finance. Do you guys have anything left today that's serious?

• 0:39Kirsten Korosec?

  Just, I can't wait to see the end of Battlefield and see who wins.

• 0:45Speaker 00

  True, but you know the best part about that? I have not been involved with any step in that process. So I arrived at the very end when the confetti goes off and everyone's really happy and I'm like, what an excellent celebration.

• 0:54Kirsten Korosec?

  Amazing.

• 0:55Speaker 00

  I know.

• 0:55Kirsten Korosec?

  I have an important question for you both. Do you feel disrupted mentally?

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:03Speaker 00

  I feel incredibly disrupted because I had just adapted to my new life as a parent and like we finally got like a sleep schedule in place and all this. And then I did all that work and then I flew to San Francisco and changed time zones, contexts, lifestyles. Yeah, every part of me is currently wrong.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, definitely a disrupt to the routine is always sometimes like the hardest part of doing anything it feels like.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Well, I also haven't gotten much writing done. Like we haven't done, we've done one few of our podcasts this week. Like I know we're working, but it feels like I'm not doing my job, if that makes sense.

• 1:35Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, you have all both been working. I know I've been working because we've all been on stage and interviewing. So Becca, I'm curious, like what was your favorite panel that you participated in and then maybe one that you caught that you weren't doing?

• 1:52Speaker 01

  So I really did like doing the Found Podcast Live this morning with Windows Snyder.

• 1:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  It's just really cool to have someone who has such a background like that, but outside the cybersecurity space just isn't super well-known. I mean, a few people I was talking to, I was like, oh, I'm super excited, we're interviewing Windows Snyder. And they're like, oh, who is that? And I'm like, uh, the reason why our iPhones are encrypted, um, the reason why Microsoft software includes cybersecurity. Like, I'm like, she's been such this maven, so it's fun to chat with her. But I also really liked my employee's stock option panel, which I was the most nervous about, just because it's even for me, covering these all the time, it's a denser subject. But people were, the crowd, really into it. We got good audience questions. The panelists made it kind of fun and exciting, so.

• 2:35Speaker 00

  Yeah, this was the, the panel that was about how to provide liquidity, early liquidity to founders and employees.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 00

  I'm curious, I mean, yes, there have been some IPOs back up, but not many. What was the main takeaway?

• 2:46Speaker 01

  The main takeaway is if you really are intentional about it, say, you're setting up a company, you set up a program where like, everyone can access liquidity every quarter, every so often, that that's really the only way to make it work. Because there are a lot of companies that have done it incorrectly. Things like Stripe, Instacart, made it so that their employees cannot sell their shares when they're at the peak. Now they're at the bottom, their shares are all worth nothing. And just kind of how to avoid some of those pitfalls, which I think are really interesting, because stock options are such a big part of compensation packages to get people to work at startups. So it's kind of a shame. It's one of those areas where it seems it's more of a facade, but there are ways to make it work. So it's nice to kind of like chat about how companies could actually make it a real benefit.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. I don't know, stock options, I feel like they're kind of in, um, they're not as in demand as they used to be, back when everything was going up and to the right. But Instacart shares being worth nothing, you're saying that the, uh, exercise or strike price of those options is now below their public share price.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  And I don't know for Instacart specifically, but a lot of those late-stage companies, one of the panelists, Tyson, from Notice, that's like what his company does. They have a whole tool where employees can go on, say, when they join, put in what they, um, they got for options, and they can calculate based on the current 409 valuation and secondary activity, what their shares would be worth. And he was saying there are quite a few companies where if you were joined in that key first group of hires, you're still there, you've got nothing at the moment.

• 4:15Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Late stage is not the same thing as early stage if you're joining a company and your options will be priced accordingly.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:22Speaker 00

  Uh, but Kirsten, you were busy as a bee for the last couple of days. I'm curious, what has been a standout from your disrupt 2023 experience?

• 4:30Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, first of all, you skipped yourself, but that's okay.

• 4:33Speaker 00

  On purpose.

• 4:35Kirsten Korosec?

  Uh, well, obviously I would have to say interviewing Cruise's CEO Kyle Vogt and then JB Strabill, um, Tesla co-founder and now Redwood Materials. But Kyle is probably the more contentious one. There's a lot of controversy in San Francisco right now around robotaxis and their future here. And we covered a lot of ground, um, including, you know, what he thought of, uh, the United Auto Workers strike, which he evaded that question. I, I pressed him a couple of times, but he definitely didn't want to talk about that. Um, but he also, you know, uh, did, did reveal some stuff about what's going on, um, within the company. They've been working on a winterized version of the Origin, which is this custom-built,

• 5:20Kirsten Korosec?

  looks like a toaster.

• 5:22Speaker 00

  Oh, I love those.

• 5:23Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah. So they're still waiting for the final, um, exemption request from the federal, federal regulators to remove, basically to have operate a vehicle that doesn't have steering wheel and pedals.

• 5:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 5:34Kirsten Korosec?

  Because under federal regulations, like if you sell a car, you, that you make a car, it has to have those things, right? Um, so they're getting that exemption. Once they do, um, they're kind of already in Austin with a human safety operator, sort of with a, you know, a, a kill switch type thing that can operate it. But once they do, it will go into a bunch of these other cities. So he has, and they're all though in the Sun Belt, you know, we're, we're talking Austin and probably Phoenix and, you know, they're, they're entering in to places like Nashville and stuff like that. So they've been working on this other vehicle, which is a winterized version of that, which, and they've been working on it for like two years, and it's gonna come out about two years from now.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  Oh, man.

• 6:18Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 00

  Two years?

• 6:20Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah, but... Rather it be rain.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  No, I'd rather it be medium and come into providence sooner. Like, just hurry up.

• 6:27Kirsten Korosec?

  But I could see them creeping into areas that, like a DC area that doesn't get a ton of snow, for instance, but maybe not like Upper Midwest. But eventually, that's, it just shows what they're working on, and that was interesting. And the other really interesting thing was, he basically was like, "I could see a day where city centers, you know, ban human drivers."

• 6:54Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 6:55Kirsten Korosec?

  And I asked him, "Well, are you gonna lobby actively for that?" And he, and he, he kind of said, "I don't think we're gonna need to, but we'll happily support any effort." So that was, you know... That means yes. A, a good answer, I guess. I'm sure his PR people were very happy.

• 7:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, can we go back to the, the UAW strike and his evasions there? Because I feel like he could just take a position without getting in trouble.

• 7:18Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, they are owned by GM.

• 7:20Speaker 00

  Oh, that's right. Okay, yes, no, they cannot take a position on that because their position will be...

• 7:25Kirsten Korosec?

  Mommy and daddy might be mad.

• 7:26Speaker 00

  Right. You can't say, "I support the children in the divorce."

• 7:29Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, okay.

• 7:31Kirsten Korosec?

  But, but my point, and the reason why I asked it, is he kept talking about scale. And one of the big benefits that they have touted with GM is that GM is a manufacturer. They produce these vehicles, these custom-built vehicles. They have an agreement with them, and here they have this supplier that works directly with them on deep tech and things like that and what they need. Well, if, the, right now, the Chevy Bolt EV that we see driving driverless around here, it is a version of the passing, the, the human-driven one. It is built in a factory, the Orion factory in Michigan. So if that were to be on strike, you can see the ripple effect. Like, all of a sudden, they can't get the vehicles they need. So that is why, like, aside from like, "Hey, what do you think of this strike?", there

• 8:14Kirsten Korosec?

  is a, you know, potentially operational and financial, you know, effect on cruise.

• 8:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, I'll just say, I'm, timing aside, issues aside, the fact that I'm back in San Francisco and seeing so many self-driving cars with or without humans inside of them, very exciting. Knowing that they're working on a winterized version, very exciting. More expansion, very exciting. I did not think this was going to be so slow and so measured in its rollout, but at the same time, I will take incremental progress towards my goal versus none at all. So I'm happy if impatient.

• 8:48Kirsten Korosec?

  You have to be careful because we saw what happened to Uber ATG when they had an autonomous vehicle in Tempe with a human driver behind it who wasn't paying attention, but there was a failure within the vehicle, so it was a double failure and someone was killed. Uber ATG ceased to exist not long after that, really. And so I think companies that still are around understand that. He also, I pressed him on this question too, which was, we talked about the incidents that they've had, and I said, can you get to zero? Can you have a perfect? And he said, no.

• 9:21Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:21Kirsten Korosec?

  So he did answer that one honestly, and I give him credit for that. Because there is going to be a scenario, and this will happen in the future, where a robot taxi hits and kills someone.

• 9:33Speaker 00

  Yes. There's going to be some terrible thing that happens, and people are going to throw a big fit about it. And I'm going to say the same thing then I'm going to say now, which is, have you seen the human fatality stats of driving, generally speaking? And then have you seen the human fatalities charts lately? Because driving is now more dangerous for other folks than it has been because cars are so big and visibility is so poor.

• 9:53Kirsten Korosec?

  Pedestrians are getting creamed, literally. Forty-five, about forty-five, it fluctuates a little bit, about forty-five thousand people a year in the United States.

• 10:00Speaker 00

  Forty-five thousand people a year?

• 10:03Speaker 01

  Also, people who look at that as a totally negative signal should also look at how other people walk on the street. As someone who drives in Brooklyn, New York, people just push their baby strollers out when they do not have a walk sign and they are not even looking where they are going. Like, I can't give all of the fault to the cars.

• 10:20Speaker 00

  I mean, when I'm a pedestrian, cars are a menace. And when I'm in a car, pedestrians are complete morons. So I can see this on both sides. But I do agree that people do get a little aggressive in cities with the expectation that cars will go away. Well, cars still expect to have kind of supreme right of way. So it's, it's tough.

• 10:35Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah.

• 10:36Speaker 00

  Yeah. Well, I'm excited that went well. But you had, you had a couple of things total. What else did you do?

• 10:40Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, we had a, what else did I do? That wasn't enough, I guess.

• 10:44Speaker 00

  No, more.

• 10:46Kirsten Korosec?

  I was a big part of the sustainability stage and, you know, helped put that together. And we had a great team, Tim Deschand, Harry Weber, Christine Hall, all doing interviews and including myself. I did a climate tech investing one, which was interesting. Fun moment was Tim was interviewing Rick Fox, you know, NBA champion, actor, and also entrepreneur. And this is a great title, doing something concrete on climate.

• 11:14Speaker 00

  Because he has a concrete startup. So how does Rick Fox, people know him for sports ball, end up in the concrete business?

• 11:23Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, he was influenced, you'll have to go back and listen to it. But he was influenced, actually, he's from the Bahamas and, and seeing some natural disasters going through there and what happened. So he became more cognizant, I think, because it was in his face about climate change. And also, I think he's tried a bunch of other startups. I mean, he did the whole esports startup that didn't go so well. A fun moment, we were in the middle, our, Tim was in the middle of the interview, and Shaq just rolled in.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  I saw that from the green room. And I was like, wait, what's happening on this sustainability stage? So Shaq's actually been an interesting lesson, because we've had celebrities at Disrupt through the years of different levels of, of fame. And there's celebrities, and there's celebrities, then there's like, people who bring their own like private police force. And we have a special, so in the backstage area of Disrupt, keeping this very generic for safety reasons.

• 12:23Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah, please, yes.

• 12:24Speaker 00

  But there are, there are places you can be even more secluded.

• 12:27Kirsten Korosec?

  Right. If you choose to be.

• 12:28Speaker 00

  If you choose to be. And many people will choose to have a little bit more privacy inside of the inner sanctum. So it's like a special place for you. Shaq, on the other hand, rolls up to the green room, gets a salad and just plunks down at one of the tables with like a bunch of tech room staffers and says, "Hey, what's up? I'm Shaq." And I realized that he can go into any building, in any part of the world, and just be himself, and he's beloved and welcome. And that's gotta be such a hack. Like, he can go onstage and interrupt, and everyone thinks it's great. If I did that, I would have to go talk to, like, HR.

• 12:57Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah. Well, yeah, don't do that. Don't interrupt any stage ever. I actually ended up interviewing Shaq backstage after his onstage interview, which I didn't expect to happen. I was actually there to talk to the founder of EdSoma, which is the edtech startup of Kyle Walgren. He was onstage with Shaq, and they have a seed round that they closed, 2.5 million. Shaq led that round, and they have aspirations, they're already about to get ready to raise for the Series A. So I was gonna be back there just to do the interview, and then Shaq rolled up too, and he's like, "All right, what are we talking about?" And so I'm like, "Okay, this is happening. Cool." And it was really interesting, his perspective. I ended up writing a story about it, and

• 13:42Kirsten Korosec?

  I think it's interesting advice, maybe, for founders. Shaq's like, "He didn't ask me for money. He knew my, understood my influence." I didn't put this quote in the story, but he basically was like, "He knows that if I go to a school district and say, 'Try this,' that they're gonna try it. And he just asked for me to be involved." And he said a funny thing at the end, and he was like, "You know, if the meeting's going too long, I say, 'What do you want?'" And if someone says, "I need like, you know, a million or 14 million," he's like, "No, thanks." And so apparently, the trick in this case to get Shaq's money was to not ask him for money.

• 14:18Speaker 00

  I mean, who would've thought it's the anti-ask that's going to work out? But what I do appreciate about this is that Shaq is just so different from those celebrities. Not only did he just sit around, but he just did stuff. Normally, there's like layers of people, and there's like email chains, and people are pretty locked down. So it was surreal to see someone of that stature just be human. It was refreshing. It was great. I loved it.

• 14:39Speaker 01

  No, he very much felt like a real person. In a way, a lot of celebrities don't.

• 14:43Speaker 00

  Like, he did a TikTok somewhere in our career, and everyone got a picture with him. Like, just complete access. Like, I-

• 14:48Kirsten Korosec?

  I got him in my BeReal.

• 14:50Speaker 00

  I'm kinda jealous. I was backstage at the builder stage the whole time and missed it. But everyone else had a great time.

• 14:56Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah, a lot of people had a good time.

• 14:57Speaker 00

  Not that I'm hurt or anything.

• 14:58Kirsten Korosec?

  A little bit, maybe.

• 15:00Speaker 00

  Little bit.

• 15:00Kirsten Korosec?

  Well, they say don't like meet your heroes or people you look up to, but he absolutely delivered as just a really wonderfully lovely person and also very transparent. He dove right in talking about like his struggles of reading with this, you know, in relation to this ed tech startup. He didn't hold back on that. And I think that that's what's so appealing to other people. They see themselves in him, even though he's much a bigger person.

• 15:32Speaker 00

  I could see myself in him three times.

• 15:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, I could see myself four times in his shoes.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  We actually, we have a picture of Miranda from the TechCrunch Plus team, who helps a lot with analytics and data, and she's just integral. You don't see her much, but she's clutch. And she's a picture with Shaq, and I swear to you, she's exactly half his height.

• 15:48Kirsten Korosec?

  Tall size.

• 15:49Speaker 00

  Like, it's just, Miranda's not a person of advanced stature in general, but compared to Shaq, it's somewhat funny. Now, on a more serious note, this year Disrupt has been different, and we tried to kind of bring our events together. We had more industry-focused stages. The TechCrunch Plus stage was the builder stage this year to be more thematic. And so I'm just kinda curious, how has it felt to do it this way? I know this is a little bit insider-y, but I'm curious. How's it felt?

• 16:14Speaker 01

  Well, one, I liked that there was so much more content and it was kind of easier to figure out where things were gonna be. Cause last year, not that it was difficult, but sort of how things were sort of spread just across two stages, it wasn't as always clear to me, especially firesides and stuff like that, which stage they were gonna end up on.

• 16:30Speaker 00

  Ah, yeah.

• 16:31Speaker 01

  Because there wasn't any of that curation for sector. This year, so that is nice if you're like, especially probably for the attendees, I assume, like if you're really only focused on hardware, you're really only focused on AI, it's like, there's a really great place for you to go to as a starting base of how you wanna plan your schedule and your day, which is nice. But I will definitely say, having multiple things going at once means we just don't get to see as much on our end, which is such a bummer.

• 16:56Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah, it always happens, though, I feel like.

• 16:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:58Kirsten Korosec?

  Today was the first day, I'm like, I have so much I can do. And then I was over on Pitch Showcase, and now we're doing the podcast. I'm like, I'm missing all these people. I'm looking at the schedule. I will say this, the stages were packed.

• 17:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:10Kirsten Korosec?

  I don't know what happened between last year and this year, because economic uncertainty still exists, interest rates.

• 17:18Kirsten Korosec?

  What? You're laughing like.

• 17:19Speaker 00

  No, I mean, I mean, economic uncertainty still exists is the best way of saying that many people are broke.

• 17:25Kirsten Korosec?

  Yes.

• 17:26Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 17:26Kirsten Korosec?

  And yet, there's like this level of energy and excitement. And what I'm trying to figure out, is it like excited or desperate energy? I can't quite put it like quite in a category, but there's a ton more people, there's more energy. People want to learn, all the roundtables were super packed. Our sustainability stage, which you don't know, like how, is it too insider-y? Except for the part where people went to go see Shaq, we were packed.

• 17:55Speaker 00

  So we try not to counter program against celebrities because last year we had Serena Williams.

• 18:00Kirsten Korosec?

  Yes.

• 18:01Speaker 00

  And we had the most serious panel on the TechCrunch Plus stage. And guess which one was more popular?

• 18:07Kirsten Korosec?

  The TechCrunch Plus stage?

• 18:09Speaker 00

  It was not. But I do think you're right. The energy has been fantastic. I'm actually on the optimistic versus.

• 18:16Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah, it feels more optimistic.

• 18:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:18Kirsten Korosec?

  Because the pitches I'm getting aren't like, super thirsty, you know, they're quick, you know, would love to chat. But in the past, it's been more like a sort of a desperate plea.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  I will say, though, speaking of the excitement or desperation, I don't know if you guys saw the guy walking around on day one with his company information and revenue on his shirt. And some could say that's desperation, but I think that's iconic.

• 18:46Kirsten Korosec?

  That's just bold.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Next year, that's what literally everyone will be wearing.

• 18:50Speaker 00

  I think so. There was also a woman who had a cardboard sign that she held up that said, "Media needed, I have sources" or something like that. My friend Amy got a picture of that and I thought it was hilarious. But I will say, the Series A panel on the builder stage, not only packed standing room only, like, I don't think we could fit another person in there. And then.

• 19:10Speaker 01

  No, people were laying against the wall, sitting like everywhere.

• 19:14Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  That panel was spicy, though. I totally, I was supposed to meet one of the VCs after that panel. We're gonna meet at the Deal Flow Cafe and she had to call an Uber from the TC Plus Lounge because she didn't think she'd be able to leave. They were so swamped with founders after that.

• 19:27Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  It's a good thing, but she was like, "I didn't expect that."

• 19:31Speaker 00

  Well, also, like, all the really practical panels, like the how to stretch your venture dollars, how to, you know, handle a different labor market for startups. It was really, really hands-on and busy. And so like, the energy to me felt like everyone wants to do. Well, in a slightly more difficult venture market, but not that they were desperate, more that they were like, okay, I know things have changed. So how can I get ready and do well?

• 19:53Speaker 01

  They want to learn.

• 19:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 19:54Kirsten Korosec?

  Yeah. And there's always been, you know, people seeking education, but this felt a little bit more focused and more acknowledging, like Alex referred to a minute ago, more acknowledging that things have changed as opposed to, it felt like last year, people were just waiting for things to go back to normal.

• 20:13Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:13Kirsten Korosec?

  And they were never going to go back to normal.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 20:15Kirsten Korosec?

  So.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  No, and something that came up on Tim's Series A panel yesterday, I think sums it up great, is someone asked like, oh, do you guys give different advice to your seed stage companies for raising now? And all of them said, no. And one of the VCs said, no, they're just actually listening to me now. Which I think, that's a big vibe, I think, of this conference. It's like, is a lot of this information new? Like, employees talk about how this works? No, but in a market like we're in today, I think founders really, really want to listen because they want to learn.

• 20:44Kirsten Korosec?

  They want to do it right. Like, say, no, it's a little bit tougher journey.

• 20:47Speaker 00

  And that's why, like, I know conferences are like a part of our business and so forth. But I do think that, and this is again, to your own horn, but I do think Disrupt does fit a pretty important kind of niche. Now, we have to go, but just for folks who are listening to this, on Friday, the winner of TechCrunch Disrupt 2023 Battlefield will be live on the site. We don't know who it is yet because they have not done the final pitches and competitions, but that's the one thing we couldn't wait for to record this because, well, then the show would have come out very, very late. But take a look, see who won. It's always a really kind of important deal. And frankly, I think we have a great set of companies this year.

• 21:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I only was able to sit in for one of the pitch competitions, but I was interested in every single company that presented.

• 21:27Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  And I mean that seriously.

• 21:29Speaker 00

  Becca doesn't lie much.

• 21:31Kirsten Korosec?

  I don't. Why did you have to add the qualifier on there?

• 21:33Speaker 00

  All right, try me again. Becca doesn't lie. Ever. Not once in her life.

• 21:37Speaker 01

  No, but you know me, I'm not always the most optimistic person.

• 21:41Speaker 00

  That's more what I was getting at, which is if Becca is saying that, it really means something. All right, well, we're gonna go. Shout out to Mary Ann, we love you, we'll see you soon, we've missed you. And Kieran and Becca, thank you so much for podcasting this week, having a good time. And we'll be back at Disrupt 2024.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Equity is hosted by myself, editor in chief of TechCrunch Plus Alex Wilhelm, and TechCrunch senior reporter Mary Ann Azvedo. We are produced by Teresa Loconsolo, with editing by Kell. Bryce Durbin is our illustrator, and a big thank you to the audience development team, and Henry Pickavet, who manages TechCrunch Audio Products. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.