Kisscams, ratcams, Barbra Streisand

On this week's Endless Thread, host Ben Brock Johnson and producer Grace Tatter bring us two stories about the power of livestreams – one from the Coldplay concert box seats, and another from a notorious rat corridor in Brooklyn, NYC. Show notes: What's the deal with "Astronomer" CEO and CPO affair? https://www.reddit.com/r/OutOfTheLoop/comments/1m2621f/whats_the_deal_with_astronomer_ceo_and_cpo_affair/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (Reddit) A Crown Heights Building's Rat Infestation https://hellgatenyc.com/crown-heights-rat-cam-livestream/ Gets a Livestream (Hell Gate) Rat cam https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDY39y4nm-4 (YouTube/Adam Schleser) I am a rat (a real live rotten-tailed rat) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Crwrv9Rc0zM (YouTube/Adam Schleser)

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questram School of Business. A recent episode explores how AI is reshaping our schools. Stick around until the end of this podcast to preview the episode.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the touch push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot, designed to keep you connected, powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month, or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 1:17Amory Sivertson?

  WBUR Podcasts, Boston.

• 1:25Ben Brock Johnson?

  Hey, y'all. Before the show starts, we just want to remind you that we set up secure lines for you to communicate with us. If there's anything you need to share anonymously or very carefully in this time that we are living.

• 1:38Amory Sivertson?

  Yeah, we have a Proton Mail account. That is [email protected]. Or you can text or call us on Signal. That number is 646-456-9095.

• 1:57Ben Brock Johnson?

  We should also mention that WBUR is an NPR member station and that the CEO of NPR, Catherine Marr, chairs the board of the Signal Foundation, the nonprofit that supports the messaging app. Anyway, if there's anything you need to be in touch with us about, and you want to be careful with how you share that information and protected, that's how you get in touch. [email protected], or call us, or text Signal, 646-456-9095.

• 2:30Ben Brock Johnson?

  Producer Grace Tatter, how doobly doo on this day?

• 2:35Speaker 05

  I'm great. Host Ben Brock Johnson.

• 2:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  Hmm, you ready to stir up some endless thread from WBUR in Boston?

• 2:43Speaker 05

  Always.

• 2:47Ben Brock Johnson?

  Are you familiar with the Streisand Effect?

• 2:50Speaker 05

  The Streisand Effect? I think so. So that's like Barbra Streisand wanted a story buried, but then in trying to bury it, she got more people to talk about it. So it had like the opposite effect. Is that it?

• 3:02Ben Brock Johnson?

  That's pretty much it. This was from back in 2003. Barbra Streisand engaged in legal action against the California Coastal Records Project to get photos of her Malibu home removed from a website. Of course, this, the result of this is that the photos have been viewed millions and millions of times and have been much more public than they ever would have been if she had just like let it ride.

• 3:33Speaker 05

  Poor Barbara.

• 3:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  So I don't think I've ever seen the Streisand Effect physically manifest. You know what I'm going to talk to you about. So let's not pretend. You know what I'm going to talk to you about, right?

• 3:50Speaker 05

  Yes. I mean, I like laughed a lot about this video. So when you mentioned it in passing, I had an immediate feel of laughter and recognition.

• 4:00Ben Brock Johnson?

  How did you first come across the now famous video, Grace? And what in your estimation did it show at the time when you first saw it?

• 4:08Speaker 05

  I actually came across this video originally in the WBUR Slack because it is kind of a local news story. Um, if you're in Boston.

• 4:16Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes, it is. Gillette, shout out Gillette Stadium.

• 4:19Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 4:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  In Foxborough, Massachusetts.

• 4:22Speaker 05

  Coldplay was playing at Gillette Stadium and they were doing the Kiss Cam, which I have to imagine has existed, like. Since time immemorial at live events and the Kiss Cam like goes to this one couple, like this middle aged couple who are like vibing to Chris Martin and then they just like drop.

• 4:40Ben Brock Johnson?

  The guy drops.

• 4:41Speaker 05

  Oh, and she turns.

• 4:42Ben Brock Johnson?

  So we all know what the Kiss Cam is. Obviously, like you said, Grace, it's very common. But just to describe it, this is essentially a live stream of the audience during a large stadium event. With Kiss Cam, the idea is you, you know, you put the camera on two people who are canoodling or who are seeming to be a couple and tens of thousands of people peer pressure them to kiss each other in public, which we could talk about that, but effectively that's what it is. They do it at sporting events. They do it at concerts that are cheesy, like Coldplay concerts. And Coldplay does it specifically at concerts as part of what is called the Jumbotron song. Coldplay's own version of the Kiss Cam where Chris Martin sings about the people the camera is pointed at

• 5:26Ben Brock Johnson?

  as they appear on the Jumbotron, which he did with this couple. And this video shows what is, I guess, it's like a, it's like a box. They got box seats?

• 5:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, they're fancy.

• 5:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, they're fancy. So this couple in the box seats.

• 5:43Speaker 05

  There's a third person next to them face beet red because this woman who's next to them, who clearly knows them is like the most uncomfortable a person could possibly be. You just feel her like discomfort radiating off of your phone screen.

• 5:58Ben Brock Johnson?

  And one of them is this CEO of a company called Astronomer. And the other one is the CPO, which is, what's the CPO?

• 6:11Speaker 05

  Chief People Officer.

• 6:13Ben Brock Johnson?

  The Chief People Officer.

• 6:14Speaker 05

  I don't think it's something that used to exist.

• 6:17Speaker 05

  A relatively new type of job.

• 6:18Ben Brock Johnson?

  Essentially the head of HR, right? I think is what we would say at this company. Do you know offhand anything about the company Astronomer, Grace?

• 6:28Speaker 05

  I actually don't. So all I know, yeah, I knew that they worked together, but what Astronomer? I'm guessing it has to do with stars? That would be my guess.

• 6:38Ben Brock Johnson?

  You know, that's a good guess. It's a good guess. Let's try this on for size, Grace. Astronomer empowers data teams to bring mission critical software analytics and AI to life.

• 6:51Speaker 05

  AI wrote that. Some word salad. But, okay.

• 6:58Ben Brock Johnson?

  Investors in this company, which by the way, as I understand it, has a $1 billion valuation. Bain Capital, JP Morgan and Chase, Salesforce Ventures, Sierra Ventures, these are big companies, big investing companies. So this like, you know, this company is a pretty big deal in the tech world.

• 7:19Speaker 05

  So he's a high profile dude.

• 7:21Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, Andy Byron, Chief Executive Officer, and Kristin Cabot, Chief People Officer. When you go on the website, you don't have to scroll far to find these folks.

• 7:34Speaker 05

  And that's a no-no, right? Like, so they're clearly coworkers and she's probably in charge.

• 7:39Ben Brock Johnson?

  What are you talking about, Grace? Totally fine.

• 7:42Speaker 05

  And she's probably somewhat in charge of the policy that says coworkers are not supposed to be hold in each other's arms at Coldplay concerts.

• 7:51Ben Brock Johnson?

  Well, look, different companies have different ways of thinking and talking about this. I think, you know, some companies say you have to disclose romantic relationships in the office. I think most companies would say there should be no romantic relationships inside of departments where somebody's, there's like a power differential, right? Like there's a manager or a superior who has a relationship with somebody working underneath them because that can lead to problems, of course. But the other thing is, you know, these two people are married to other people.

• 8:28Speaker 05

  That is why that man dropped down so quickly. You can tell. This is more than an HR policy.

• 8:35Ben Brock Johnson?

  What jumps out to me about this is that it kind of created this very immediately massively hugely viral moment. And people very quickly, of course, went down the rabbit hole as the internet is want to do. Like jumped onto these people's LinkedIn profiles, found out everything about them. I would imagine that their personal lives are just in this moment.

• 9:02Ben Brock Johnson?

  Completely exploded, right?

• 9:04Speaker 05

  I know. I will say, actually, one of the first things I thought about when I saw it is I laughed. And then I, when I realized that they were married, which I, again, I intuited from the sheer panic, particularly for the CEO, but I thought of their partners and how humiliating that would be. I mean, ugh, to have this transgression be like the joke of the internet for a day.

• 9:30Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, and I think what another thing that's interesting is like, I, I literally just Googled, what is the company astronomer? Here are the news articles that came up in the top results. Are you ready?

• 9:43Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 9:45Ben Brock Johnson?

  New York Post.

• 9:46Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 9:47Ben Brock Johnson?

  TMZ, NDTV, Worcester Telegram, shout out Worcester Telegram.

• 9:54Speaker 05

  Again, local news.

• 9:55Ben Brock Johnson?

  The Economic Times and the New York Post. There's a, like, there's a couple of New York Posts.

• 10:01Speaker 05

  They've gotten more than one article out of that.

• 10:02Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, on the top results page for me. New York Post is, they're going deep on this. They're throwing everything they got at it. So first of all, everybody like went and found out what astronomer was, right? I don't know, like, from a perspective of like, does this company, is this good? Or is it bad? Right? They say no press is bad press. I think this is kind of bad press.

• 10:27Speaker 05

  Yeah, it doesn't instill a lot of trust in the CEO's decision making.

• 10:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  Right.

• 10:33Speaker 05

  Because it is a little foolish.

• 10:35Ben Brock Johnson?

  I took the merry-go-round on this one on Reddit, like, saw the top post on, I think it was like Pop Culture Chat, or Interesting as F, or whatever it was. Then I went to this post

• 10:47Ben Brock Johnson?

  that was basically a finance post. And somebody was making this point that when you're a company, I believe this is a startup, but

• 10:58Ben Brock Johnson?

  a company like this with all these, these big investment firms, somebody made the point in a Reddit comment, look, if the CEO of a company is willing to lie

• 11:13Ben Brock Johnson?

  about his relationship to his partner.

• 11:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  What else is he willing to lie about?

• 11:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  And you don't want to invest in a company where it appears the top brass is comfortable, this comfortable, lying about things that are very important in people's personal lives, at least.

• 11:39Speaker 05

  I, of course, also do think that affairs are morally questionable. Or maybe not, of course. Esther Perel, you know, has some complicating thoughts on this. But I do personally find affairs morally questionable. I also am like, they're not our business. And one thing that this all made me think of is it reminded me a lot of this episode I did on Find My Friends, because there's this idea of you don't have to worry about being constantly surveilled if you have nothing to hide. But like, it's human to have stuff to hide.

• 12:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes, true.

• 12:15Speaker 05

  Not all secrets are bad. This is a secret that hurts people. But not all secrets are. And then also, like, part of being human is also like, sometimes you are going to have bad secrets, too. So now we just live in this society where like, kiss cams have always existed, but social media hasn't. So now, just like, when you go out into the world, you might become part of other people's content in a way that you wouldn't used to be or that wouldn't have used to happen. And it makes it like we're all on The Truman Show. Like, we're all like...

• 12:46Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes, yes.

• 12:48Speaker 05

  And that's weird. So like, yes, it shows bad judgment for this guy to have an affair with a subordinate. But also part of me is like, ah, but we shouldn't even all know this. Or like, should we start living our lives, knowing that like, the mass of social media might turn against us? Like, is that what we want to be like, guiding our decisions? I don't know. It's weird.

• 13:10Ben Brock Johnson?

  So, again, I think, Grace, this is just a reminder that, you know, the Streisand effect, it comes for us all. The more you try to hide something, the more it might be obvious. Like, if they hadn't ducked, if he hadn't ducked and she hadn't turned away...

• 13:25Speaker 05

  No one would have put it on TikTok.

• 13:27Ben Brock Johnson?

  Exactly. So there you go. I don't know. Just word to the wise. Play it cool. Stay frosty.

• 13:34Speaker 05

  Yeah. Or you could do, my mom's always tells us, well, if you can't be good, be careful. Oh, and then her other one is, it's a small world, so you better be good.

• 13:43Ben Brock Johnson?

  Ooh, wow.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  And I would say it's a small and surveilled world. So you better be good or at least play it cool.

• 13:54Ben Brock Johnson?

  Grace, a little postscript to this story, by the way.

• 13:58Speaker 05

  Okay.

• 13:58Ben Brock Johnson?

  Those LinkedIn profiles did stay on the Astronomer website for much longer than one might have thought in the age of the internet. But the CEO Byron and the CPO Cabot both have now resigned.

• 14:13Speaker 05

  Aww.

• 14:14Ben Brock Johnson?

  But you know that the internet plus the Streisand effect equals forever. So those memes, Grace, they're still going. Have you seen them?

• 14:23Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. This is going to be one of the iconic moments of 2025. Years from now, when Billy Joel does another "We Didn't Start the Fire", the Kiss Cam is going to be in it.

• 14:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  Okay, so Grace, I have brought you a kind of old school live streaming at the game Kiss Cam story, right? But you have a live streaming story for me. And let's get to that right after this break.

• 15:08Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questrom School of Business. How should employers measure real skills in the age of AI?

• 15:20Speaker 06

  Instead of observing the final artifact, instead of observing the final essay or the final program, observe the entire process of creation.

• 15:29Speaker 00

  Follow Is Business Broken? wherever you get your podcasts and stick around until the end of this podcast for a preview of a recent episode on rethinking academic and job assessment when AI can do the work.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 16:16Speaker 02

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected, powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  Okay, so your story was a local story in Boston. My story starts with a guy where I live now, in Brooklyn. His name is Adam Swesser, and he lives in this part of Brooklyn that is a notorious rat corridor. Like, it frequently has the most, the highest number of rat complaints in New York City, which is really saying something.

• 17:11Ben Brock Johnson?

  Okay, okay, all right, fair.

• 17:14Speaker 05

  And his building, Adam's building, has it real bad. This whole apartment complex, it's actually six buildings, the old Brooklyn Jewish Hospital complex. And it is just infested with rats. And so he cannot sleep at night because of all the gnawing and scurrying that, and like rat screaming that he hears through his walls and in his ceiling.

• 17:36Ben Brock Johnson?

  Are these rats in heavy metal bands? Or what's going on?

• 17:39Speaker 05

  So Adam does, he's, yeah, being driven to insanity by these rat sounds. And he does what many of us do in the face of an unsolvable problem. He posts to Reddit, and he describes this kind of hell that he and his neighbors have been dealing with for months. And in that post, he includes a link to what he hopes might be a solution to his problem.

• 18:07Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh God, the rats are running through the rafters.

• 18:11Speaker 05

  What you are seeing is a clip from the livestream that Adam is now broadcasting from his ceiling 24/7.

• 18:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh boy, rat cam.

• 18:22Speaker 05

  Yeah, so maybe you're wondering like what gave Adam this idea, like why he decided that this was what needed to happen to solve his rat problem?

• 18:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  I mean, I get it in a way. It's like, yeah, this is the, this is 2025. Let's get, let's, let's turn these rats into influencers, baby.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  And you gotta have receipts.

• 18:46Speaker 05

  So I met up with Adam because this livestream really caught my imagination as someone who is very rodent paranoid.

• 18:55Speaker 05

  We, we met in a less rat-infested location than his apartment. We met at his coworking space in his neighborhood. And he told me that he began to dream of a livestream after he had taken all of the steps that you're supposed to do with these things. He'd contacted his landlord, then the city. The city had sent an inspector, but the inspector didn't see anything because the rats are in the ceilings and the walls. They're not running around his apartment, thank God, I guess.

• 19:20Ben Brock Johnson?

  Inspector like sticks his head into the apartment.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  Like, nothing here.

• 19:24Ben Brock Johnson?

  And it's like, no, it looks good to me. See you later.

• 19:26Speaker 05

  Well, exactly. He said, I don't care if there's an elephant in your walls. If you can't see it, you can't cite it.

• 19:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  What? That's a quote?

• 19:36Speaker 05

  That, that is a paraphrase from Adam. Though, let me tell you, Adam is the most organized person I've ever talked to. He has receipts on receipts, so he's a fairly reliable narrator.

• 19:48Ben Brock Johnson?

  Oh my God.

• 19:50Speaker 05

  So, yeah, this makes him feel insane, right? Because he knew the rats were up there. He knew it. So he like feels gaslit and just crazy.

• 20:00Speaker 07

  I had fantasized about putting a camera in his ceiling. What's wrong with me? Like, this is what I'm dreaming about, is putting a camera in my ceiling. And how am I gonna do that? I even envisioned cutting out a piece of drywall to put in plexiglass so I could like have like a window up there to be like, see? There's rats up there. I'm not crazy.

• 20:20Speaker 05

  Do you think you would feel similarly to him in this situation? Have you ever like known that there's a really real problem? Like you can't convince the people who could fix it that this problem exists?

• 20:30Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, well, I hate to say it, but I'm more of the inspector in my family. If I can't see it, I can't cite it.

• 20:41Ben Brock Johnson?

  I think my wife Sarah and I, when we lived in New York,

• 20:46Ben Brock Johnson?

  she was certain, certain that we had bedbugs for a long time. And we finally had somebody come. And the guy, I think he was just trying to like cut her a break. Cause he was like, he was like, it is true. I believe that you may have one bedbug.

• 21:07Speaker 05

  So your loved ones are the ones who would wanna like install a bedbug cam?

• 21:11Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, if I can't, if I can't see it, I can't try to fix it. So, but I also get the thing of like, I'm not crazy. Let me show you that I'm not crazy. I must prove to you that I'm not crazy. Although like cutting a hole in the ceiling where the rats are, man, that's, you're playing with fire. You're playing with fur there, my friend.

• 21:29Speaker 05

  Well, he did not end up cutting, there's no plexiglass in Adam's ceiling, at least as of now. But he did get a camera that an exterminator recommended because apparently exterminators sometimes really do monitor pests this way. And, and he could have just done that, right? Like he could have just had a little bit of a footage or just shared it to his landlord. But once he hooked it up to his iPad, he started this live stream on YouTube so everyone could see it. And he made that Reddit post that I mentioned earlier on his neighborhood sub, where it kind of popped off because who doesn't love an animal cam?

• 22:10Speaker 05

  So his post on Reddit caught the attention of some local journalists. I saw it because of a story by Anna Oakes and Hellgate that goes into a lot of detail about this apartment complexes problem. It's very good journalism.

• 22:23Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is Hellgate, the online publication focused on New York City and the area?

• 22:28Speaker 05

  Exactly, yeah. But it also got picked up by your friends at the New York Post. And that's when it really started doing numbers. So Adam, like I said, he'd done all of the steps that you're supposed to do, all of the old school steps. But posting it online, making that Reddit post, making the livestream, but then making the Reddit post that like got, drew people's attention to the livestream, that had way more of an effect than the months and months that he tried to play by the book. Literally while I was talking to him, his super was calling about moving him up to an apartment on a higher floor, potentially so they can start tearing out his ceiling where the rats live. So like, he finally kind of got traction after he drew millions of eyeballs to this.

• 23:13Ben Brock Johnson?

  Listen, people say you don't need journalism, but it works.

• 23:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. Citizen journalism, but then, yeah, combined with these, you know, real institutions like The Post and Hellgate. So Adam might be open to leaving the apartment temporarily, maybe. But he is not moving and he is not taking down the livestream until this problem is really and truly fixed. Because his thinking is that like, if he leaves, then his landlord and like the livestream goes away and the problem is no longer being documented, the landlord will just like have someone else move in, someone who's like thrilled to get a stabilized unit and like then the problem will just be theirs. And like, this actually does need to get fixed.

• 23:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  Hundred percent, hundred percent agree, as they say on the New York City subway. Hundred percent agree.

• 24:05Speaker 05

  So Adam's rat cam reminded me of an episode Dean did a few years ago about animal cams. Do you remember that episode?

• 24:13Ben Brock Johnson?

  I do. It's the Endless Thread senior producer Dean Russell in the whatever, I forget the name of the eagle, but there was an eagle cam, yeah.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  I believe it was Jackie the Eagle.

• 24:21Ben Brock Johnson?

  Jackie the Eagle. Love Jackie.

• 24:24Speaker 05

  The episode was about how these livestreams really get humans to care about the other creatures that we share this planet with, like Jackie the Eagle, like rats who live in our ceilings.

• 24:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yes. Do you feel the rat cuteness now that you've looked at the rat cam?

• 24:38Speaker 05

  I mean, I do have some empathy for the rats. And I admit, Adam helped me get some empathy for these rats. Because, like, yeah, he is watching them all the time. But he said that even before, even before he started watching their every move. He had empathy with them, and that's why he wrote this song.

• 25:00Speaker 08

  I am a rat.

• 25:05Speaker 08

  Not a rat bastard, but a real-life, rotten-tailed rat.

• 25:11Ben Brock Johnson?

  Beautiful.

• 25:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a lot of empathy, right?

• 25:15Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah.

• 25:16Speaker 05

  So hopefully, this animal cam gets Adam and his neighbors a rat-free, safe and sanitary living environment, as they deserve and are entitled to. But, you know, also, maybe Adam can make us all feel a little more for our furry neighbors.

• 25:34Ben Brock Johnson?

  A little more fur our furry neighbors. Love it, Grace. Thank you for bringing this rat-tastic story.

• 25:41Speaker 05

  And then, next time, someone tells you there's a critter in your walls, may you believe them.

• 25:47Speaker 08

  Trying to sleep in your own bed.

• 25:58Speaker 08

  I've got nowhere else to go.

• 26:02Speaker 08

  You've paved over my hill.

• 26:07Speaker 08

  I see that you have lost your way. Never forget nature's unyielding will.

• 26:15Speaker 05

  Endless Thread is a production of WBUR in Boston.

• 26:19Ben Brock Johnson?

  This episode was co-hosted by myself, Ben Brock Johnson.

• 26:22Speaker 05

  And me, Grace Tatter.

• 26:24Ben Brock Johnson?

  It was produced by Franny Monahan.

• 26:26Speaker 05

  Our editor is Meg Kramer. Mix and sound design by production manager Paul Vicas.

• 26:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  The rest of our team is Amory Sivertson, Dean Russell, managing producer Suma Tijoshi, and Emily Jankowski.

• 26:39Speaker 05

  If you have an untold history, an unsolved mystery, or livestream footage of your bosses having an affair that you want to share with us,

• 26:50Speaker 05

  get in touch.

• 26:50Ben Brock Johnson?

  Or like a critter cam.

• 26:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, or a critter cam.

• 26:54Ben Brock Johnson?

  I'll take a critter cam. It doesn't need to be infidelity.

• 26:57Speaker 05

  Sure, but I'll also take the tea. You can get in touch with us at [email protected].

• 27:06Speaker 08

  I'm a real life runt tail rat. I scurry faster than you can dial 311. D O H and H P D. Yes, I'm spreading disease and it'll probably kill both you and me. It's happened before. Hey, look, I'm under your floor and now I'm up in your ceiling. I'm ceaselessly screeching above your head.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken? A podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questram School of Business. Follow Is Business Broken wherever you get your podcasts and listen on for a preview of a recent episode featuring Janet Kang, Executive Director of the Just Horizons Alliance, on who stands to benefit from AI in education.

• 28:04Speaker 09

  I am absolutely in favor of AI in learning in the right context.

• 28:08Speaker 08

  And just to explain why you're excited about it.

• 28:11Speaker 09

  Oh, my gosh, individualized support, right? Personalization and to be able to scale quality education in places where it was historically impossible. So for certain kinds of learners with different kinds of learning styles and disabilities. For example, speakers of different languages. There are amazing ways AI can boost learning. It just has to be with the right context. And age appropriateness is something we do a lot of work in because it is very different depending on where in that maturity cycle you are in terms of how your brain develops.

• 28:42Speaker 00

  Find the full episode by searching for Is Business Broken wherever you get your podcasts and learn more about the Marotra Institute for Business Markets and Society at ibms.bu.edu.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 29:30Speaker 10

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