Announcing 'Hidden Levels': how the videogame world has changed the world beyond videogames

Have you ever jumped on something as you're moving through the real world, and heard that Mario bouncy sound in your head? Or maybe seen someone acting like an NPC when they're a real person? Maybe you know that the first real "in-app" purchase was actually a weapons store in an arcade game version of Double Dragon 3. Wherever you go in the real world, you can find signs of the influence of videogames. But you have to know where to look. That's why Endless Thread and 99% Invisible are launching a new limited series together called Hidden Levels https://www.wbur.org/podcasts/endlessthread/hiddenlevels. Today Roman Mars and Ben Brock Johnson kick off the series with a little preview of what's coming.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:04Ben Brock Johnson?

  Hey guys, it's Ben Brock Johnson and today I want to tell you about a special mini series we are going to be running on the Endless Thread feed for the next several weeks. It is a collaborative series we're making with the podcast 99% Invisible. And to help me introduce it is the host of 99PI, Roman Mars. Hey, Roman.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Hey, Ben.

• 0:23Ben Brock Johnson?

  So, Roman, for our listeners who don't know, what is 99% Invisible?

• 0:28Speaker 01

  99% Invisible is about designs, about architecture. It's about all the thought that goes into things that most people don't even bother thinking about. So, Ben, you've been on our show before.

• 0:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, that's right. We worked together on an episode about the history of Svalbard, the home of the global seed vault in Norway. You've also featured an episode from Endless Thread about the Punisher Skull and how that imagery is used by white supremacists.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  Yes, which continues to be relevant today. So, I feel like our shows have always been simpatico. And last year, you came to us with a really cool idea for a collaboration all about video games.

• 1:04Ben Brock Johnson?

  Yeah, I'm so excited about this. It was really fun to work on with y'all. Roman, do you know what you call two people collaborating to beat a video game together?

• 1:14Speaker 01

  No. Is this like a riddle or is this like a real thing?

• 1:17Ben Brock Johnson?

  It's a real question. It's called a couch co-op.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, okay. So, we're sitting next to each other on the couch, like trying to defeat a level. Got it.

• 1:25Ben Brock Johnson?

  That's right, man. You've got the soda, I got the snacks. We're ready to go.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  Now, I am not a hardcore gamer. I mainly like play Solitaire on my phone or the New York Times puzzles each day. How about you?

• 1:37Ben Brock Johnson?

  I play several hours a week, I will admit. I'm in the Helldivers 2 zone right now, playing that game a lot.

• 1:44Speaker 01

  But one of the things I love about this idea that you brought to us is that this show, Hidden Levels, is all about how video games and video game design have changed the world beyond video games. So, it doesn't matter what kind of gamer you are, these stories are meant for everybody.

• 1:57Ben Brock Johnson?

  That's exactly right. I really believe that video games have this really interesting and outsized impact on everything we do. And if you play video games, you see it everywhere. And if you don't, you might be interested to find out how these things affect us. So Roman, I have an example for you of how video games have impacted the world. I'm going to open up Replay Magazine from 1991.

• 2:22Ben Brock Johnson?

  This is a window on the world of coin operated entertainment. And I found in this magazine

• 2:32Ben Brock Johnson?

  an advertisement for Double Dragon 3. The advertisement says Billy and Jimmy are back. They're back. The two main guys of Double Dragon wear matching outfits and fight their way through the inner city. One of the things it advertises in Double Dragon 3 here in this magazine is special weapons stores. Now, Double Dragon as a coin operated arcade game actually had a store that you could go into and put in extra quarters to buy a baseball bat or a whip or whatever you might need to bash your way through the game.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  What I'm picking up here is that in-app purchases, a thing that I do really regularly, even though I don't play a lot of Double Dragon 3 anymore, those happened because of video games.

• 3:18Ben Brock Johnson?

  Basically, yeah. The stories that I'm excited for us to tell our listeners is how video game design and video game development have really led to these real world things, even if you don't love it, even if you don't love making in-app purchases, you should know in part where this stuff comes from.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Okay, that's great.

• 3:35Ben Brock Johnson?

  I'm very excited to reveal this. We are calling our series, Roman, Hidden Levels.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  So in our series, we've got episodes about the many ways video games shape our world. We've got an episode on one of the most iconic sounds in gaming history.

• 3:51Speaker 02

  Boom shakalaka. Boom shakalaka.

• 3:54Ben Brock Johnson?

  We will discuss how games reshape the natural environment.

• 3:58Speaker 03

  I was so familiar with that feeling of like walking through the woods that it kind of just translated into my experiences in game.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  We'll talk about the origins and evolution of the most popular game controller ever.

• 4:10Speaker 04

  There's a kind of direct manipulation quality to it.

• 4:15Ben Brock Johnson?

  And we got one final boss episode at the end that we think you're gonna love.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Challengerでしたね。つまり自分がキングではなくて、キングよりもチャレンジャーであったと。

• 4:26Speaker 05

  Sega was the challenger, right? Sega was never the king. Sega was just coming up to the king and asking for a fight.

• 4:33Ben Brock Johnson?

  In true couch co-op spirit, this show hits both the 99% invisible feed and the endless thread feed starting tomorrow.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  The first episode of Hidden Levels is Tuesday, October 7th, and we'll be rolling out new episodes every Tuesday and Friday.

• 4:48Ben Brock Johnson?

  And we're gonna have two side quest episodes that are rolling out just for the Endless Thread subscribers. Hidden Levels, we hope you enjoy it. Roman, you ready Player One?

• 4:57Speaker 01

  I am ready. Are you ready Player Two?

• 4:59Ben Brock Johnson?

  Let's go. I'm hitting start.

• 5:09Speaker 06

  Support for this podcast comes from Is Business Broken?, a podcast from the Marotra Institute at BU Questram School of Business. Follow Is Business Broken? wherever you get your podcasts and listen on for a preview of a recent episode featuring Janet Kang, Executive Director of the Just Horizons Alliance on who stands to benefit from AI in education.

• 5:31Speaker 07

  I am absolutely in favor of AI in learning in the right context.

• 5:36Speaker 08

  And just to explain why you're excited about it.

• 5:38Speaker 07

  Oh my gosh, individualized support, right? Personalization and to be able to scale quality education in places where it was historically impossible. So for certain kinds of learners with different kinds of learning styles and disabilities, for example, speakers of different languages, there are amazing ways AI can boost learning. It just has to be with the right context. And age appropriateness is something we do a lot of work in because it is very different depending on where in that maturity cycle you are in terms of how your brain develops.

• 6:10Speaker 06

  Find the full episode by searching for Is Business Broken wherever you get your podcasts and learn more about the Marotra Institute for Business Markets and Society at ibms.bu.edu.

• 6:28Speaker 09

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• 6:56Speaker 10

  Ugh, I hate Mondays.

• 6:58Speaker 11

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• 7:00Speaker 10

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• 7:05Speaker 08

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• 7:07Speaker 10

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• 7:11Speaker 08

  Taylor Hansen? Nice.

• 7:13Speaker 11

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• 7:15Speaker 08

  Mmm.

• 7:19Speaker 10

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