#579 - Pad Cymru, Human Alps and A Constant Perma-Rolling Crisis

Poor old Elis. Just when he thought he’d been surprised enough this year we go and chuck another one his way. Because a famous ghost from his past is about to stroll into the studio and cause all sorts of emotions. But before then, a trip down memory lane with a Cymru Connectee gets his blood pumping with shame. And he explains why he’d spend his final day on earth signing up to LinkedIn. John’s also here, and kicks off the show with his new range of Elis and John bunkers. It’s an odd tone setter, sure, but it is current. Whilst we’re at it, do you want to surprise Elis with anything? Send it to [email protected]. Find out about our latest Adventures episode, which is dropping on Friday 2nd October at 11am, HERE! https://www.patreon.com/elisandjohn/posts/adventure-7-room-170802331/ For lots of exclusive EJJR #content, join our Patreon at patreon.com/elisandjohn. For weekly visual highlights, head to youtube.com/@elisandjohn. For everything else, head to elisandjohn.com. The Elis James and John Robins Show is a Significant Production. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Before we start this episode, we want to invite you along to the adventures of Ellis and John.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  If you head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn, you can join us on our monthly escapades, including

• 0:10Speaker 00

  Miniumpicks.

• 0:11Speaker 01

  It's the strangest legal jump in the history of long jump.

• 0:14Speaker 00

  Birdwatching.

• 0:15Speaker 02

  My two favourite things are birds and football.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  And you can watch our latest episode now, where we tackle an escape room.

• 0:22Speaker 03

  So John is absolutely flying here. Well, Ellis is there as well.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  Ellis is there as well, Dave.

• 0:27Speaker 03

  We did the first three, Dave, for complete chill.

• 0:32Speaker 00

  So for adventures and so much more, head over to patreon.com/ellisonjohn now.

• 0:40Speaker 04

  Network freedom and flexibility, that's what you want in a healthcare plan. With a Humana Medicare Advantage PPO plan, you can see any doctor in the country who accepts Medicare, including specialists. No referrals, no kidding. Learn more at gethumana.com. See any doctor who accepts Medicare and is willing to bill Humana. Humana PPOs may not be available in all areas. Benefits and costs share may vary. Humana is a Medicare Advantage PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:11Speaker 05

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 1:21Speaker 05

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up?

• 1:27Speaker 00

  Wanted add, led to fall of two cops.

• 1:30Speaker 05

  His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime.

• 1:36Speaker 06

  You're not going to end up going to prison, are you, kidlet?

• 1:38Speaker 05

  I'm Jacey Long, and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 2:04Speaker 01

  Hello, everyone. It's becoming clear that AI is going to kill us all. And here at Ellis and John, our attitude to the end of the human race differs. Ellis is in a period of mourning for the end of Wikipedia pages that covered the Tour de France, the Epiphone 335 and Harold Wilson. Dave has remortgaged his house to stock up on GAK.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  This is our terrestrial radio, man.

• 2:30Speaker 01

  It's a type of goo for kids.

• 2:33Speaker 00

  For kids. It's like Play-Doh.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  And John thinks that, broad strokes, the end of humankind would be a good thing, but has been asked not to wear that view on the version of the show that goes out on Five Live. But fear ye not, because whatever your view on the elimination of our species, we have the solution for you. Yes, we're tech entrepreneurs, and as such, after a brainstorm session last year, we decided it was time to prep like tech entrepreneurs, investing in Ellis and John nuclear bunkers. The finishing touches have just been applied, and Patreon members get early access to spaces should the worst happen. But whose bunker will they choose? First up, it's Pad Cumry, Ellis's homage to the

• 3:19Speaker 01

  legacy of Welsh cycling. Fitted with 100 C2 Erg bikes, this state-of-the-art gym will ensure that fast twitch muscle fibre is the last thing to go extinct. Well, I say state-of-the-art. In true Ellis fashion, a lack of joined-up thinking is evident in the design. Whether you call it cognitive decline, ADHD, or simply a good old fashioned cock-up.

• 3:44Speaker 01

  Even to amateur architects, the structure has some flaws. There's no doubt that the walls are adorned with a genuinely impressive array of inspirational memorabilia. The water bottle from Nicole Cook's 2008 Olympic gold medal-winning road race

• 3:59Speaker 00

  This all sounds brilliant.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  sits in a central display case. Geraint Thomas's yellow jersey from the 2016 Volta Aual Garve is framed over the entrance archway.

• 4:09Speaker 00

  Imagine.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  And Eleanor Barker's 2018 Commonwealth gold medal has been set into the water fountain so that survivors can rub it for good luck before hydrating. However, Ellis left it too late to submit his plans to any contractors with the capacity to take on such a project. So after some sketches were put down in the margins of the new statesman, Ellis's builder Steve has had to do his best. Fair play to the guy. The bikes are all installed, but there's only one toilet between 200 guests, and those surviving the robot takeover will have to pray there's no nuclear fallout or rain because there's no escaping the fact it doesn't have a roof.

• 4:46Speaker 00

  Okay. And he's called Andy, not Steve.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Those wishing for a drier way to see out the apocalypse may want to opt for the brainchild of producer Dave. I say dry, whilst it does have a roof, construction firm McLaughlin and Harvey have confirmed it's the only nuclear bunker they've ever built that comes with its own dedicated foam room. The compound, called simply Dave's, aims to give inhabitants the full Ibiza experience, but one that could survive a 400-kiloton nuclear blast. Residents have a choice of two nightclubs, Oceana and Equinox.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Get in.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  One playing drum and bass and the other also playing drum and bass but with UV lighting. Stockpiling choices have been controversial. Whereas traditionalists opt for long-life grains and tinned goods, Dave's larder currently contains 800 litres of tequila, 2,000 limes and a metric tonne of salt.

• 5:40Speaker 00

  Again, it sounds really good.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  It does. There would be an indie room in the nightclub, but aside from that, it's bad.

• 5:46Speaker 00

  Oh, it sounds nice.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  But what of John? Well, like all kind megalomaniacs, he sees his underground facility less as a refuge, more of a gift to future generations. Fully trained operatives will take residents through a five-year educational programme, including modules on a reformed highway code, pragmatic approaches to taxation, and learning to love a dog-free world. Its working title is the Common Sense Reprogramming Unit, consisting of a two-storey circular study centre a mile in diameter, which sits some 200 feet below the ground. It's quite literally a desert island disc. Its crowning glory is its library, stocked with 20,000

• 6:28Speaker 01

  copies of books handpicked by John, including and limited to The Bible, The Complete Works of Shakespeare, and Thirst, 12 Drinks That Changed My Life.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Come on.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  The only music available is Frank Zappa's entire discography, but don't worry. At eight hours listening a day through the piped speakers, that's a minimum of six-week no-repeat guarantee. Beat that magic FM.

• 6:50Speaker 03

  Absolute radio.

• 6:51Speaker 01

  Those willing to both have their minds opened and conform must pass an in-person test conducted by John in his private quarters at the top of his 12th floor central tower. There you will get a taste of just what common sense has to offer, with its own driving range, 20-hour Pizza Express, and fully functioning Kia dealership. If you're interested in any of the above, sign up at patreon.com/ellisonjohn-apocalypse for your chance to win your future. You can also enter by text on your phone. For Ellis, text decline to 710810. For Dave, text Bosch to 710811. Or for John, text sense to 710812. Terms and conditions apply. Text costs 100 million grand plus your standard network rate. You must be over

• 7:36Speaker 01

  18 to enter. No dogs in John's one.

• 7:41Speaker 03

  I'd go in yours, John.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Would you?

• 7:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  Why?

• 7:43Speaker 03

  Because, what, 24-hour Pizza Express?

• 7:46Speaker 01

  That's just in my bit.

• 7:48Speaker 03

  Can I not come in your bit?

• 7:49Speaker 01

  No.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  Why not?

• 7:50Speaker 01

  Well, you go up there for your entrance exam.

• 7:52Speaker 03

  So you're

• 7:52Speaker 01

  Then you have to go back to the disc because I live in a 12-storey central ivory tower.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  Oh, so that's just for you?

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Tower, just a tower.

• 7:58Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 00

  So you're alone, even in your apocalypse bunker.

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Dream scenario.

• 8:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, he loves that. He loves that.

• 8:06Speaker 00

  I'm not sure that's a dream scenario.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  I could probably send for people if I wanted to chat to someone.

• 8:11Speaker 00

  Oh, that's good.

• 8:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  I think you'd want to after a few days.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  I would want to, and then I'd chat to them and go, no, this was a waste of time. Send them back down the lift.

• 8:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, but I think you'd need that opportunity. You'd need that option.

• 8:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  I'm just thinking about how you were in lockdown.

• 8:28Speaker 03

  So once the Once the people have picked their zone, are they allowed to move between zones?

• 8:34Speaker 01

  Well, they're in separate countries.

• 8:36Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 8:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:37Speaker 03

  Oh, I thought we were all like neighbours.

• 8:38Speaker 00

  I thought we were like neighbours as well.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  No, Ellis is in the centre of the valleys.

• 8:43Speaker 03

  Yeah. Am I actually in Ibiza?

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, no, you're near to Ibiza. You'll be in one of the less popular ones, but the quieter ones. But it's all going to be quiet because everyone else will be dead.

• 8:53Speaker 00

  And where are you?

• 8:54Speaker 01

  Mine, hmm.

• 8:56Speaker 00

  Scotland, maybe, sort of, high in Scotland.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Manhattan, USA.

• 9:00Speaker 03

  You hate, you would, do you like Manhattan?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  I love Manhattan.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Do you?

• 9:03Speaker 01

  It's the most incredible thing I've ever seen.

• 9:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is.

• 9:06Speaker 00

  But then the Alps?

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Um, it's sort of like a human Alps, in a way. The buildings are like mountains.

• 9:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  I think on a par, but obviously the Alps wins because it's nature.

• 9:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 9:20Speaker 01

  But in terms of like, impact of like, going on holiday, when I stepped out of the subway in Manhattan, I could not, I could not believe how much I loved it.

• 9:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, all the car beeps.

• 9:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, and all the pretzels and listening to Lou Reed and, yeah, good stuff. Good place.

• 9:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just, it's weird. If that kind of apocalypse happened, I think

• 9:45Speaker 01

  Not a very big if.

• 9:46Speaker 00

  I would want other people's input. Whereas I think if that happened, John would think, great, I'll solve this on my own. I'm better alone.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  That's because I've got solutions.

• 9:58Speaker 00

  He does, to be fair, though.

• 9:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, big time. I mean, I'd have to get architects involved.

• 10:04Speaker 00

  Oh, well done.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. And the odd botanist, maybe.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  The odd boffin.

• 10:09Speaker 00

  Quantity surveyor?

• 10:10Speaker 01

  Quantity surveyor, yeah. Get him involved.

• 10:12Speaker 00

  Builders?

• 10:13Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 10:14Speaker 00

  All right then. So you're delegating the important stuff?

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm an ideas man at the top of my tower.

• 10:19Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. You're the ideas man at the top of the tower. Well, that's good.

• 10:25Speaker 00

  It's an odd tone setter.

• 10:29Speaker 00

  Beginning of the show.

• 10:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, but it's always, everyone's talking about it, aren't they?

• 10:32Speaker 00

  Apocalypse.

• 10:33Speaker 03

  You know?

• 10:34Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's good fun, isn't it?

• 10:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:35Speaker 00

  It's like we're, it's like we're doing sort of radio in the early 60s, doing this sort of Cuban Missile Crisis, just me.

• 10:40Speaker 03

  Well, actually, when lockdown kicked in, John was very, very calm and actually quite positive about the whole thing.

• 10:47Speaker 01

  Great in a crisis.

• 10:48Speaker 03

  He is great in a crisis.

• 10:49Speaker 01

  Terrible in peacetime.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, you like a bit of adversity.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  Well, your brain's got something to do then with the, has a, the solution, as all your thoughts can suddenly think about something that matters.

• 11:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's true.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  Well, why don't we try and constantly create a crisis in John's life?

• 11:08Speaker 01

  Keep throwing stuff at me.

• 11:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, you wouldn't need to fuck up for therapy then, as long as, as long as he's living in a constant perma-rolling crisis.

• 11:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:17Speaker 00

  That you and I create, that's not going to kill him or harm him.

• 11:19Speaker 01

  Like Inspector Clouseau in Cato.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:24Speaker 01

  I just need you to constantly attack me.

• 11:27Speaker 00

  Yeah. So it was a-

• 11:28Speaker 01

  Leak stuff to the press.

• 11:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, so it's like sort of-

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Sound like putting out fires all over the place.

• 11:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's like Monday morning, dead arm, then another dead arm, Monday afternoon, tell you that your house has got subsidence, et cetera. You're constantly rolling, you've got the, the pain of your arm and then you've got to deal with the insurance-

• 11:43Speaker 03

  Slash the tyres of his Kia.

• 11:45Speaker 00

  Slashing tyres of his Kia, putting, you know, I don't know, Figs up his exhaust.

• 11:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:53Speaker 00

  Some, some crises are big, some are small.

• 11:56Speaker 01

  Most of these are quite small.

• 11:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, turning his wifi off.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  Two dead arms and Figs up your exhaust.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  And subsidence.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  And the subsidence would be a real pain, actually.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:08Speaker 03

  All right, well, we'll look into that.

• 12:09Speaker 00

  All right then, yeah.

• 12:09Speaker 03

  It's a nice little story arc.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  What, and then there's one final crisis that he can't solve?

• 12:16Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no, he needs to solve them.

• 12:17Speaker 00

  The crisis of death.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  We don't solve that, do you? You just accept it.

• 12:23Speaker 00

  Fingers crossed, yeah.

• 12:25Speaker 01

  But you can't just accept Figs up the exhaust, that you have to do something about.

• 12:30Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  But that's the great thing about death, you have to accept it.

• 12:33Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  No other option.

• 12:35Speaker 00

  Anyway, you're listening to Ellis and John here on BBC Radio 5 Live. We've got a made up game coming up.

• 12:42Speaker 00

  Maybe a shamer and of course a come reconnection.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:47Speaker 00

  Are you thinking about whether you'd accept death or not?

• 12:49Speaker 01

  I've already accepted it.

• 12:50Speaker 00

  Yeah?

• 12:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:51Speaker 00

  So, so if I, hang on, this is, I mean, I've got to ask, so if I told you you're dying tomorrow, John? How would you feel about that?

• 12:58Speaker 01

  I would do everything exactly the same.

• 13:00Speaker 03

  No, you wouldn't. You'd want to get files in order, I imagine.

• 13:03Speaker 00

  The files are in order, that's the awful thing.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  They are in order, I'm afraid. I did my accounts, I did my accounts yesterday.

• 13:09Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:10Speaker 03

  Oh, fair enough.

• 13:10Speaker 00

  So he's ready to go.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, all the pensions, well, my pension, I don't know why I've pluralised my pension, but my pension, that's going to its beneficiaries.

• 13:21Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 13:21Speaker 01

  You're welcome.

• 13:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, cheers mate, I appreciate that.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  What would I do?

• 13:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, what would you do?

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Exactly the same. I would go home tonight.

• 13:29Speaker 00

  What, boggle crossword bed?

• 13:31Speaker 01

  You are?

• 13:32Speaker 00

  Boggle crossword bed?

• 13:33Speaker 01

  Boggle crossword bed. The annoying thing is I'm supposed to get a flight tomorrow morning, so I think I would probably have to cancel the flight. I'm not going to see that money again. Although you can actually claim one insurance if it's, it would be weird, because I would have-

• 13:48Speaker 00

  It feels like a mini win.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  I'd have to call the insurance and say, my friend has told me I'm going to die tomorrow, so can I get my 180 quid back? But anyway, that's, that's, you know, it doesn't matter in the broad scheme of things.

• 13:59Speaker 03

  Would you not want to go to Thorpe Park or something?

• 14:01Speaker 01

  No, I would do exactly the same. And I think that's the measure of where you're at with death.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, okay.

• 14:07Speaker 01

  And life. I'd go home, go for a little walk, go and see the pheasants, hopefully see a deer.

• 14:14Speaker 00

  And a hare, I saw a hare recently.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  And an albino pheasant.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  Did you?

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then go back, have dinner, read my book, have a herbal tea.

• 14:24Speaker 00

  Well, at time-

• 14:25Speaker 01

  Go to bed, wake up in the middle of the night, go ****, go back to sleep.

• 14:31Speaker 00

  A time of recording has passed my caffeine cut, cut off, so I'd definitely have a coffee.

• 14:35Speaker 03

  Ah, you rock and roll.

• 14:36Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, but then I'd be awake until the very end, Dave.

• 14:39Speaker 03

  Yeah, nice, nice.

• 14:41Speaker 00

  And, yeah, we'd try and, I don't know, what, I'd try and fit in. I think I'd try and, I'd, I'd write an email to a few of my favourite bands and say, no point reforming now.

• 14:51Speaker 00

  I'm not going to be here to see it.

• 14:53Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:54Speaker 00

  Quick email to Paul McCartney, didn't get to meet you, probably would have messed it up.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  You've got all these people's email addresses.

• 14:59Speaker 00

  No, it'd be, it'd be via LinkedIn, I suppose.

• 15:04Speaker 01

  So you're signing up to LinkedIn? Because I know for a fact you don't have a LinkedIn profile.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  It takes you more than a day to figure out LinkedIn, so that's a hell of a way to go.

• 15:13Speaker 00

  I'd borrow a login.

• 15:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, you could borrow mine, I'd use it.

• 15:15Speaker 00

  I'd borrow your LinkedIn login, I'd say, hi, I know this has come from Dave Musterman, it's actually Elis James.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  And who's this going to?

• 15:22Speaker 00

  Paul McCartney.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  You think he's just got a LinkedIn page with a CV on it? 1960 to 1969, The Beatles. Since then, solo work. And the odd vegetarian food interest.

• 15:37Speaker 03

  I bet Mac has got LinkedIn Premium, so he can contact other people, just go straight into the inboxes of whoever he wants. You need LinkedIn Premium, you do need LinkedIn Premium for what you want to plan.

• 15:46Speaker 00

  What I want to do.

• 15:47Speaker 03

  For what you want to do, yeah.

• 15:48Speaker 01

  Ellis's final day on earth is spent signing up to LinkedIn.

• 15:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  And then-

• 15:53Speaker 00

  Working out how it works.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Sending a DM, he's probably just searched Beatles in the search bar.

• 15:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 01

  So he's eventually found someone that does like sales for Apples.

• 16:04Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 16:05Speaker 01

  The music label.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:07Speaker 01

  So someone's getting a DM that they're probably going to open after your death.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  And what's it saying? Sorry, I didn't get, can you say to Paul?

• 16:14Speaker 00

  Can you say to Paul, Ellis James, you're a big fan, didn't get to meet you, probably for the best, you'd have messed it up anyway. Thanks, Ellis.

• 16:23Speaker 03

  What are Izzy and the kids doing whilst you're doing all this on your final day on earth? Because would it not be smarter to maybe spend it with them?

• 16:29Speaker 00

  Of course.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  They're calling up the stairs, he's tearing his hair out, trying to work, work out where his confirmation code for LinkedIn has gone.

• 16:37Speaker 00

  But that's been sent to your email address because I've borrowed your login.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Your password isn't strong enough.

• 16:42Speaker 01

  Asking me to, whether he can claim the premium on his business expenses. I say, yeah, of course you can, it's networking.

• 16:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, it comes about, it says password's weak, you know, you're at sort of a high risk of being, what's it called?

• 16:57Speaker 03

  Scammed, hacked.

• 16:58Speaker 00

  And I'm like, not really my problem anymore.

• 17:00Speaker 03

  No.

• 17:01Speaker 00

  So, yeah, that would take an hour and then obviously family time.

• 17:04Speaker 03

  Family time. Good, there we go.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  Good stuff.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  All your affairs are in order.

• 17:08Speaker 01

  Let us know what Ellis, what you would be doing on your final day on earth, [email protected]. And we might read them out, we might not.

• 17:19Speaker 03

  Keep it clean.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:20Speaker 03

  As well.

• 17:28Speaker 05

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 17:37Speaker 05

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested.

• 17:41Speaker 07

  They said, you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble.

• 17:43Speaker 05

  But was he set up?

• 17:44Speaker 00

  Wanted, had fled to fall of two cops.

• 17:46Speaker 05

  His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime.

• 17:52Speaker 06

  You're going to end up down there, isn't it, you're clearly?

• 17:54Speaker 05

  I'm Josie Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  Welcome inmates to the ring fence zone. We don't think of you as inmates, we think of you as cohabiters. In the Ellis and John compound, you'll be delighted to know that the guards on the watchtowers have put down their arms. So you're allowed to roam freely, as long as, just cannot emphasise this enough, don't reach into your pockets quickly.

• 18:26Speaker 00

  It's a ceasefire.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  It's a ceasefire.

• 18:28Speaker 00

  It's a ceasefire for the ring fence zone.

• 18:31Speaker 01

  And we're delighted to say-

• 18:33Speaker 03

  No she, not needed. We are natural and fleet footed with these announcements now, John.

• 18:38Speaker 00

  Well, it looks like it's an opportunity for me to jump on and leapfrog.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Go for it.

• 18:43Speaker 00

  So she distant sports bar.

• 18:45Speaker 01

  Oh, no, Ellis, Christ.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  Are you mad?

• 18:49Speaker 00

  I'm not mad, is it?

• 18:50Speaker 01

  You're mad.

• 18:51Speaker 00

  That already happens, it's not the 10th, it's not the 11th of October.

• 18:53Speaker 01

  No, it's not, but this is specifically-

• 18:55Speaker 00

  Dave, these are my projects.

• 18:57Speaker 01

  But that must have sold out.

• 18:59Speaker 00

  No, we didn't mention it for ages because Mike had loads of stuff on and we were unable to mention it.

• 19:05Speaker 03

  It's a cheerful, cheerful gig, isn't it?

• 19:06Speaker 00

  It's a cheerful gig.

• 19:06Speaker 03

  Anyway, that's-

• 19:07Speaker 01

  What does that mean?

• 19:08Speaker 00

  It's a little podcast festival.

• 19:09Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 19:10Speaker 00

  We did it a few years ago. And the Clapham Grand's great, Charlie Chaplin played there.

• 19:13Speaker 03

  Ellis, there is bigger-

• 19:14Speaker 00

  I was just talking about the Clapham Grand.

• 19:16Speaker 03

  I know.

• 19:16Speaker 00

  I was talking about Charlie Chaplin.

• 19:17Speaker 03

  I don't want you talking about anything that isn't to do with the announcement for our next adventures episode, which comes out this Friday, for blimmin' own sakes.

• 19:27Speaker 01

  For what?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Blimmin' own sakes.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  For blimmin' own sakes, yes, and it will see Ellis and I in our second visit to an escape room.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  We've returned to the scenes of the crimes.

• 19:38Speaker 01

  Triumph, is it even a competition?

• 19:41Speaker 00

  No, it's a team sport.

• 19:43Speaker 03

  Not that you would know it from points of the, the exercises.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Well, sometimes the best thing for a team to do is accept its leader and keep quiet while the leader solves all the puzzles.

• 19:57Speaker 03

  Prisonists.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  Prisonists.

• 19:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  We had fun.

• 20:00Speaker 01

  Oh, what a day it was.

• 20:02Speaker 00

  George Weir was Libya's best player.

• 20:04Speaker 03

  He was, he carried them.

• 20:05Speaker 00

  They used to give him the ball all the time.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  Where, where did he carry them to? Were they a successful match?

• 20:09Speaker 00

  Well, they never qualified for them, but I mean, he was the best player and you can't win the World Cup on your own, can you?

• 20:14Speaker 03

  No.

• 20:14Speaker 00

  But John can do very well in an escape room on his own.

• 20:17Speaker 03

  We were dressed in, we were dressed in peculiar items for the day, but we'll let you, we'll let that be a big reveal visually.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  So that's available now, patreon.com forward slash Ellis and John.

• 20:28Speaker 03

  No, sorry, good, good try then.

• 20:33Speaker 03

  This Friday.

• 20:34Speaker 00

  It's available on Friday.

• 20:35Speaker 03

  This Friday.

• 20:36Speaker 01

  If you remember what I said, Dave, I said, that's available now, patreon.com forward slash Ellis and John, that URL is available, not to you, the listener, to us, we own it.

• 20:45Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  So that's available for you to go to and register your interest in an upcoming video, which isn't out yet, if you'd let me finish, Dave. Should we have a little, should we have a, listen to a little clip of the escape room?

• 20:56Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, please.

• 20:57Speaker 01

  We probably should, shouldn't we? Okay, teaching, eating, crying, listening, hunting, leaning. Sounds like my love life.

• 21:06Speaker 06

  Teams, I have bad news for you. You can no longer beat the record, unfortunately.

• 21:14Speaker 03

  Don't tell him that halfway through, Mary Lou.

• 21:16Speaker 01

  Whose fault is that? This man held some of the best batteries I've ever seen, Dave. While you have stood there repeatedly holding an inflatable, trying to give us clues without giving us clues, because we're on a time limit.

• 21:30Speaker 00

  Bloody hell, John, you're awful.

• 21:34Speaker 03

  I forgot how brilliant Mary Lou was.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  Was our wonderful host, who just absolutely loves tearing John to pieces.

• 21:40Speaker 01

  I forgot how lovable I was.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, you are lovable in defeat. You are lovable in adversity, aren't you?

• 21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, just a very sympathetic character.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  You are, and you take it in your stride.

• 21:52Speaker 01

  Take it in my stride.

• 21:53Speaker 02

  Which is nice.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  So when's that dropping date?

• 21:56Speaker 02

  Oh, it probably drops around 11am on Friday morning. This Friday, Friday, the 2nd of October, for this month's adventure special. It is good fun.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Wowsers, trousers, blouses. Enjoy it.

• 22:12Speaker 02

  What's go- what's what we've got coming up, John?

• 22:13Speaker 01

  Well, it's a big show, Dave.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Is it?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, speaking of what you might do on your last day on earth, we've got a bit of a surprise for Ellis.

• 22:22Speaker 02

  Uh, we do as it goes.

• 22:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, a little bit of a surprise coming up.

• 22:26Speaker 02

  We do as it goes.

• 22:27Speaker 00

  I hate surprises.

• 22:28Speaker 02

  You do. Well, do you know what? You do hate them, and it just seems to be that we spring awful, an awful lot on him these days.

• 22:33Speaker 00

  No, Gallagher had surprises when he met Seinfeld, that was a surprise.

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Okay, good, but you, you rolled with the last surprise quite well, which was the Royal Albert Hall announcement.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  I went pale for a bit.

• 22:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, you did.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  Uh, but before then, this won't come as a surprise to regular listeners, because it's time for a Cymru connection.

• 22:53Speaker 03

  It's another Cymru connection. Ellis thinks his tactics are sheer perfection. But his questions have one direction. Where did you go to school? Do you know David Evans? No, come on, mate, you must do. No, we've never met at all.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  His eyes are closed, he's beginning to focus, he's put on his noisy top.

• 23:27Speaker 02

  His noisy top?

• 23:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, his rustly top.

• 23:30Speaker 02

  Oh, he's, well, he's now, he's now.

• 23:32Speaker 00

  He's too romantic, I've got to.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Well, it's the double whammy of wondering what's to come and also a Cymru connection to try and complete.

• 23:39Speaker 00

  I'm nervous, so I put my top on.

• 23:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:42Speaker 01

  It's like when I was really hungover years ago, and me and my friend, Johnny White, the comedian, he was staying over and, um, I suddenly just had to have a cooked breakfast. So we drove to the big Sainsbury's on the other side of Bristol and had a cooked breakfast.

• 24:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 24:01Speaker 01

  But I was so hungover, the soon as we got in the car to go back, I thought I was gonna ask myself. I said to Johnny, I'm just gonna ask myself, but all he could do was put his hood up to protect him.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  In the car?

• 24:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:16Speaker 02

  Did he not fancy pulling over?

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Well, I was driving.

• 24:19Speaker 02

  Oh, you were driving?

• 24:20Speaker 01

  And he can't drive.

• 24:21Speaker 00

  What happened?

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Got home just in time.

• 24:24Speaker 00

  Oh, so it is a happy story in the end.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  But his only defences he had available to him was putting the hood of his coat up.

• 24:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  It always makes me laugh. And Ellis, that's a bit like what you've done, you've put on your coat, because it's time to Cymru connect. It's time to prepare for the surprise.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  I'm nervous about the surprise.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  Don't worry about the surprise. Don't worry about the surprise. It's, it's, what, it's life and death stuff, the surprise, but don't worry about that, you'll be fine. It's big. Anyway, we should get back to Cymru connection.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Last week, Ellis managed to connect with Calla Gemma. He overcame the maiden name hurdle and connected via Catrin James. He was back at his best, it was lovely to see. That took his connection rate back up to 48.54%. We're still within touching distance of the ever elusive 50. Let's see how he fares today. We have a caller on the line, caller, what's your name?

• 25:16Speaker 02

  Alad.

• 25:17Speaker 01

  Alad, Ellis, you have 60 seconds to find a mutual connection with Alad. Your time starts now.

• 25:23Speaker 00

  It's your school?

• 25:24Speaker 02

  Uh, 39 Coppers Christie High School, Cardiff.

• 25:28Speaker 00

  Coppers Christie, Cardiff. Uh, what do you do for a living?

• 25:33Speaker 02

  Uh, I work in marketing.

• 25:35Speaker 00

  Uh, where do you live?

• 25:37Speaker 02

  In County Galway in Ireland.

• 25:39Speaker 00

  County Galway in Ireland. Oh, what was that Irish guy from there who was to play? Do you know Wally from Cardiff? He's just Irish.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 25:47Speaker 00

  But guitar, okay, that's fine. Uh, if you went to university, where did you go?

• 25:51Speaker 02

  University of Central Lancashire in Preston.

• 25:54Speaker 00

  Okay, what do you do for a living? Oh, marketing, marketing, uh, Coppers Christie, Cardiff. 39, uh, so, uh, did you ever go to Club of the Bar, do you watch indie bands?

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, from time to time.

• 26:10Speaker 00

  Okay, you Cardiff City fan?

• 26:12Speaker 02

  I am.

• 26:12Speaker 00

  Okay, 39. You don't know Ryan March, do you, who runs Alternative Wales?

• 26:19Speaker 02

  I know of him, I don't know him personally.

• 26:20Speaker 00

  Fine, are you a Wales fan?

• 26:22Speaker 02

  I am.

• 26:23Speaker 00

  Okay, I've run, I've run out of time, haven't I?

• 26:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 26:28Speaker 00

  Because the bed's ended, 39. Coppers Christie High School, which part of Cardiff did you grow up in?

• 26:38Speaker 02

  Peneland.

• 26:39Speaker 00

  Peneland, my friend Lewis left there in 2006. But there are others.

• 26:51Speaker 01

  I feel that there's, we've taken a backward step.

• 26:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, well, he's got other things on his mind now.

• 26:58Speaker 00

  I'm about to be surprised, Alad. And it's put me off my game.

• 27:04Speaker 02

  It fell at points, yeah, there was a slight drift in focus.

• 27:08Speaker 00

  Shut up, Dave.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  And he just didn't say anything for every now, for a while.

• 27:13Speaker 00

  Because I was thinking, you beast. 39, you don't have Charlotte Church, do you? She's about your age.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  No, I don't.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  Do you know of any connections, Alad?

• 27:25Speaker 02

  I do.

• 27:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, here they come. What have we got? What are we dealing with?

• 27:32Speaker 02

  So you used to work in Cafe Europa in Cardiff?

• 27:38Speaker 00

  Did you now?

• 27:39Speaker 02

  No, I said you, I said you did.

• 27:41Speaker 00

  Oh, yes, I did, yes. I thought you were a member of staff, I'd completely forgotten, but thought that can't be the case. Okay, who do you know who used to go to Cafe Europa?

• 27:50Speaker 02

  Oh, my sister worked there.

• 27:51Speaker 00

  Who's that?

• 27:53Speaker 02

  Uh, Laura.

• 27:54Speaker 00

  Oh, you complete sod. Are you Alad Brian?

• 27:59Speaker 02

  I am. Oh, oh, this is, this is all, this is, this is all good.

• 28:06Speaker 00

  Oh, heaven help me.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  Okay. Alad, why is Ellis so emotional? Could you explain?

• 28:14Speaker 02

  I don't know, you tell me, Ellis.

• 28:16Speaker 00

  No, no, it is, it was so mad, is I think I met you years and years ago, and obviously.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  You did, you did.

• 28:24Speaker 00

  You were a teenager.

• 28:26Speaker 02

  I was about 18, I think, yeah, about 20 years ago. It was in my sister's flat in Canton.

• 28:34Speaker 00

  Yes, that was it, oh.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  And you didn't ask, you didn't actually ask me there what I studied. That might have connected the dots.

• 28:43Speaker 00

  What did you study?

• 28:44Speaker 02

  Sports journalism.

• 28:46Speaker 00

  Oh my God, I, it's all coming back to me. Oh, Laura lives in Derbyshire now, doesn't she?

• 28:55Speaker 02

  She does, she lives in Brighton now, she did live in Derbyshire.

• 28:58Speaker 00

  Yeah, I knew she'd been in Derbyshire for me.

• 29:00Speaker 02

  No, I remember that conversation with you, Ellis, you were waxing lyrical about, uh, um, Hugh McElvaney was your favourite journalist.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  Yes, my favourite sports journalist ever, that's good, that's a nice thing to remember.

• 29:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  Sorry, quite often when people say, I met you at a party in 2004, Ellis, I remember our conversation. It is an absolute car crash, but that's positive.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  And you just keep saying sorry, and they're like, yeah, you've already apologised for this.

• 29:27Speaker 00

  Yeah, you sent me a text in 2012, and then again during lockdown. And you're like, yeah, yeah, I apologise a lot. How are you doing, Alad?

• 29:35Speaker 02

  I'm good, I'm good, yeah.

• 29:37Speaker 00

  Good stuff.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  Alad, any, any memory, other memories of Ellis? Did your sister ever come home from work and be like, oh, bloody hell?

• 29:45Speaker 02

  Oh, so my sister did tell me a good anecdote, actually. I don't know if Ellis remembers this. The first time you met my sister, I think she said.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Oh dear.

• 29:54Speaker 02

  It was in a supermarket, I, I don't know which supermarket it was, it might have been the Tesco metro in, on Calvert Road East. Um, that's just a guess, I don't know, but, um, she said, uh, so she met you and she was buying cranberry juice for making cranberry, cranberry vodka. Drag us out for as long as you fancy, Alad, because this is wonderful to watch in the room.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  And Ellis apparently said, oh, I've got thrush, have you?

• 30:24Speaker 03

  Thanks, yes.

• 30:25Speaker 01

  Doesn't make sense.

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Good grief. Was that just to a stranger, Alid, at the time? Or did he know?

• 30:33Speaker 07

  Well, yeah, I don't know if she was. So I know my sister used to live with your ex-girlfriend, Ellis, Gemma. So I don't know whether she was with Gemma at the time.

• 30:42Speaker 00

  That was a misstep, a misstep and an odd call.

• 30:47Speaker 03

  It is an odd call.

• 30:48Speaker 00

  From me. Why did I do that?

• 30:52Speaker 01

  Well, how old were you at that point?

• 30:54Speaker 00

  I would have been 25.

• 30:57Speaker 01

  I think that's exactly, I mean, I'd have, I'd have.

• 30:59Speaker 00

  That's the thrush joke era.

• 31:01Speaker 01

  Was not thrush.

• 31:03Speaker 00

  Systitis?

• 31:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:04Speaker 00

  Oh, right. Okay. I got them wrong.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Exactly. But it's exactly what I would have done because and even into comedy, your head just goes, unfortunately, woman cranberries equals cystitis. That's, that's how comparing gigs works.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  I know, but you wouldn't.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  You get two facts and you go with the place your brain connects.

• 31:25Speaker 03

  But to what seems like basically a stranger in a supermarket, is that not?

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Absolute madness.

• 31:30Speaker 00

  It was a stranger. I didn't know Laura at that time.

• 31:32Speaker 03

  The decision to not say that.

• 31:33Speaker 00

  You do if you're unwell, Dave.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  I wouldn't have said that to a stranger.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  No, no, no, no.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  But I would have thought, I'd have thought.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  That's the difference.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Woman cranberries, cystitis. But I'd have kept it to myself and looked for some offers.

• 31:45Speaker 00

  I became good friends with Laura after that, amazingly.

• 31:49Speaker 03

  Amazing.

• 31:50Speaker 00

  That's, oh dear. I think my mid twenties actually is the worst period of my life to revisit.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:02Speaker 00

  Your childhood and your teens, you can write off because of the folly of youth.

• 32:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:07Speaker 00

  You, but 25, I could have been, you know, I was paying taxes. I was able to drive. I could have been in the army. I had a job. And yet, the sort of constant comparing, not all of, which doesn't always make sense. It was out there. That said, Laura grew to like me.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:30Speaker 00

  Obviously she was, you know, my then girlfriend's best friend. And so she was sort of obliged to us. But that doesn't always work out, does it?

• 32:37Speaker 01

  I mean, she, if we could get her on, Dave, she was probably getting the real inside track.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  Oh, don't.

• 32:42Speaker 03

  Good point. Look into that, Michael.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Don't know because.

• 32:46Speaker 01

  I mean, imagine being the best friend of Ellis's girlfriend.

• 32:50Speaker 03

  Oh, stories.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  You'd only be hearing the bad stuff.

• 32:53Speaker 00

  During the years when I was mentally weak.

• 32:57Speaker 00

  Oh, Alid.

• 32:58Speaker 07

  So there was one other connection, actually, which is through, through my sister, which is probably a bit of a cheat. But I think that might be a connection with John here as well. She used to go out with Clint Edwards.

• 33:10Speaker 00

  Of course, yes.

• 33:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, I gigged with Clint quite a few times.

• 33:15Speaker 00

  We gigged with him a lot in Cardiff. I used to gig with Clint all the time. Yeah. Okay. And that's fine. Clint again. That was mainly in my late twenties. He, he saw untrammelled, mentally weak Ellis, used to say. I, I don't say those things as much anymore.

• 33:33Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, of course not. You're a family man.

• 33:35Speaker 00

  I'm a.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  You don't verbally assault strangers in supermarkets anymore.

• 33:43Speaker 00

  Saying it like that because that's what it was.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Oh, thank God, this isn't happening to me.

• 33:49Speaker 03

  Oh, it's good stuff, isn't it?

• 33:50Speaker 01

  Alid, thank you so much.

• 33:52Speaker 00

  Good man.

• 33:52Speaker 01

  Alid's a good man. And you're a good man.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  I'm a good man who's mentally weak and who made mistakes.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  But we've all, you know, every person on earth has got flaws or had them.

• 34:03Speaker 00

  So yeah, you would have been about 18, presumably on the way to study sports journalism.

• 34:09Speaker 07

  Well, I think it was maybe the end of my first year of university. I actually remember I had, I had done a shift in, talking of Tesco Metro. It wasn't Tesco Metro in Canton. It was Tesco Metro on Albany Road.

• 34:25Speaker 00

  Oh, yes.

• 34:26Speaker 07

  So I had my Tesco uniform on. I remember that much.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Oh, what did I say?

• 34:31Speaker 07

  There might have been some marijuana involved, I seem to remember.

• 34:37Speaker 01

  In what?

• 34:39Speaker 07

  Not in Tesco Metro, at whatever gathering there was at the house in Canton.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Okay, well, now finally there is stuff that legally will stick. The rest is all just the folly of youth. But this, this actually comes under historical allegations.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Well, I know. Crucially, he didn't say where it was involved. So that's all bulletproof.

• 35:00Speaker 00

  In Morocco.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:02Speaker 01

  The BBC will launch a full investigation and Ellis will be put on unpaid leave until the inquiry has reached its conclusion.

• 35:10Speaker 00

  Well, nice to speak to you. Nice to catch up, Alid.

• 35:15Speaker 00

  Well, I really liked Laura. It just reminded me of a person I really like and.

• 35:19Speaker 01

  And a person you really don't like that's yourself.

• 35:22Speaker 00

  But that's me. Yeah. So it's reminded me of the person I don't like me. And it's reminded me of the person I do like Laura. And thus we're, you know, we're, yeah, thank you. All right then. I'll speak to you soon, hopefully.

• 35:32Speaker 07

  Cheers, mate.

• 35:33Speaker 00

  Cheers, pal.

• 35:34Speaker 01

  Right. Thank you very much. I mean, God, he's.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  Tough precursor to what's to come.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  That's got to be the, one of the toughest ringings he's ever had on the Camry connection.

• 35:48Speaker 00

  The problem is.

• 35:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 00

  When I met Alid, if my chronology is right, I was, I, I had either just started stand-up or, oh no, if he'd, yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 01

  You'd have just started, didn't you?

• 36:04Speaker 00

  I'd have just started. So I was, you know, a completely.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  You were in total compare mode.

• 36:08Speaker 00

  Total, constant compare mode, completely undiscovered. I would have earned zero money, absolutely nothing from comedy at the time. And yet desperate to earn something.

• 36:18Speaker 01

  And desperate to refine your skills on people in Tesco.

• 36:21Speaker 00

  Tesco, having found the thing I wanted to do. But obviously there being no guarantee that I'd get to do it. And so I just, I used to, I remember once I got accused of comparing a curry.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Dave.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  We need to move on.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  We're moving on.

• 36:38Speaker 03

  Closure. So we'll pause there for a second and, well, it's frying pan fire for our friend Elis James.

• 36:44Speaker 01

  But an ice fire.

• 36:45Speaker 03

  Absolutely, but it's still a fire.

• 36:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's a fire. It's a fire.

• 36:49Speaker 00

  I'm on fire.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Behind a fire grate in a cold house which is now warm.

• 36:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's lovely stuff. All right then.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Why have you got your phone out, Dave?

• 37:02Speaker 00

  Oh, nothing. No reason. No reason. Are you gonna, are you gonna film me being told other embarrassing things I've said in my twenties?

• 37:10Speaker 03

  No, no, no. We'll move past that now.

• 37:11Speaker 00

  We're just gonna create a nostalgia package where acquaintances of my ex-girlfriend called me up and said, oh, the first time you met me, you actually said this.

• 37:20Speaker 03

  Put that in a box.

• 37:21Speaker 00

  I'm trying my best, Dave, but it's gonna be another sleepless night, I think.

• 37:25Speaker 01

  We had a brief break in recording to talk about a little bit of forgiveness for our, who we were in our twenties. And in my case, thirties, late thirties and the first half of my 41st year.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  But I've been pretty much shame free for three and a half years now.

• 37:44Speaker 00

  I've been shame free for a long time.

• 37:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Since you had your kids.

• 37:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, no, I would say, I would say in the last five years.

• 37:53Speaker 01

  Anyway, Ellis, something that we felt a great deal of shame about was the fact that you didn't manage to get anything at the Johnny Marr auction.

• 38:03Speaker 00

  Right.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Because we knew you had your eye on some plectrums.

• 38:06Speaker 00

  Bought me a guitar. That would be fantastic. And that is a nice surprise.

• 38:11Speaker 01

  We have been in touch with a few of the people involved in the auction and we've managed to arrange a little something for you. You excited?

• 38:20Speaker 00

  No, I'm nervous now.

• 38:22Speaker 01

  Don't be nervous. We're good people. We're nice people.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Ellis, have a look who's popped in for you.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  It's Johnny Marr. Hey, Johnny.

• 38:33Speaker 01

  We meet again.

• 38:34Speaker 03

  Stand up, Ellis.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Stand up, Ellis. Ellis. Bring it in, my friend.

• 38:39Speaker 03

  There we go. That's.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  There we go. Hi, Johnny. Nice to meet you. I'm John.

• 38:43Speaker 03

  Hi, Johnny. I'm Dave. Lovely to meet you.

• 38:45Speaker 01

  Nice to be here.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Come on round. Got seats for you here. Got a mic for you.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Oh, thank you, Johnny. I, for maybe newer listeners to the show.

• 38:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Don't worry, I've got a list.

• 39:00Speaker 03

  Of course he's got a list.

• 39:01Speaker 01

  Yes. Johnny Marr is in the studio with us. We're delighted to have him here. And those long-term listeners will know that Ellis and Johnny have a cheque had passed.

• 39:11Speaker 00

  Oh, don't say that.

• 39:14Speaker 01

  He first had an opportunity to meet you, Johnny, in the 2000s, but bottled it because his favourite t-shirt was damp from the wash and he didn't have a tumble dryer.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  He didn't want to meet you in the wrong clothes.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  I appreciate that.

• 39:27Speaker 00

  That is true.

• 39:28Speaker 03

  Good work. Yeah.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  That is true. And it was.

• 39:31Speaker 03

  Good man.

• 39:31Speaker 00

  The ex-girlfriend and Laura, who we were talking about five minutes ago, they were, they were the ones who were able to facilitate that meeting.

• 39:39Speaker 03

  Hmm. Well, I appreciate that.

• 39:41Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'd always.

• 39:43Speaker 03

  I wasn't damaged by the wrong attire.

• 39:46Speaker 00

  When I'd imagined it, I was always in my best gear. But it was, you, you would played with the cribs in Cardiff and you'd gone for a drink in Club Yvonne, the indie club.

• 39:57Speaker 01

  I remember that, yeah.

• 39:58Speaker 00

  Yeah. And my then girlfriend was DJing there and she sent me a text and said, you'll never guess what? Johnny Marr's walked into the club. Obviously he's getting mobbed because it's Johnny Marr who has sought refuge in the DJ booth. And I've told him, you're a big fan. Would you like to meet him? And I thought, my t-shirt's in the wash.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Ain't that always the way? Yes. What's an indie dilemma?

• 40:21Speaker 00

  It is, yeah.

• 40:21Speaker 01

  Well, this is why you need 56 t-shirts.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  I know, I know.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Then Johnny, fast forward to June 2018 and Ellis did finally meet you at Radio X at an event there. And in his words, and we talked about this at the time, he got it wrong. Ellis's voice went two octaves higher than normal due to the fact he hadn't spoken in a few hours.

• 40:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, remember that, yeah.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  He incorrectly said he co-hosted a show with Radio X presenter Dan O'Connell, which isn't true.

• 40:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, panicked, yeah.

• 40:52Speaker 01

  He was silent while you and Dan spoke about tattoo parlors in LA because he had nothing to offer.

• 40:57Speaker 00

  I've got nothing on tattoos.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  He told an anecdote about David Beckham completing the bleep test at Manchester United.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that was you, really, that? Oh, yeah, I wondered what.

• 41:06Speaker 01

  He started repeating the end of your sentences in an attempt to get his voice lower.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Because my voice, yeah, so I was, yeah, yeah.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  I guess it's a sort of form of vocal training, vocal warm-up, maybe. He thought he was going to faint and be sick and he kept pushing his glasses too far up his nose and thought it made him look like a Bond villain.

• 41:25Speaker 00

  It's ruined the photo. Because my glasses are sort of pushed into my skull, so the photo.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  Ah, that explains it.

• 41:32Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:32Speaker 02

  I thought you were just like a competition winner.

• 41:37Speaker 01

  Well.

• 41:38Speaker 02

  But that's okay. That's still all right.

• 41:42Speaker 01

  There's a triple-pronged attack to today. And Johnny, you're not going to be attacked. But obviously you've got a new album, The Age of Everything, released on October the 2nd.

• 41:52Speaker 00

  I love the singles, by the way. It's great.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks. Yeah, it's exciting. It's, it's, it's an exciting time, you know, like this, the, the early bit where, you know, it's all new for everybody and you're getting the sort of fans' reaction and, yeah. Because it's a bit of a, you know, it's the unknown. You come out of an album a little bit like, you know, what's, what's going on, really?

• 42:11Speaker 00

  But I, I saw you in an interview, I was it with Lauren Laverne, where you said that you'd actually demoed the songs in front of audiences?

• 42:19Speaker 02

  Well, we did that too, yeah, which was pretty, pretty brave. Yeah, well, it's a thing with, honestly, that, I'm not exaggerating, I've been, pretty sure I've been around quite a few bands and bands I've been in, they always say, on the next album, you know what we should do? We should, we'll, we'll demo, we'll play them live before. It's a great idea. And it's quite an old-fashioned idea, really. We'll, we'll play the songs live before we record them. And it's, I suppose it's a bit like, you know, with stand-up, just going out, doing like, getting your routine sharpened and all of that. And you have to ignore some outside noise, noise about, you know, oh, the songs are going to be out on YouTube and all of that sort of stuff, and maybe the record company's saying that.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  But in our case, it just was like, no, once I'd, once I saw that as an idea, as a good idea, I thought, great. And then, well, then I announced it to my management and announced it to the band, so I had to, I had to do it then. And it was really, it was great. It, yeah, it was really good sort of research and development kind of thing.

• 43:19Speaker 00

  But John and I do work in progress, stand-up gigs, and if a joke doesn't work, you either refine it or drop it. So were there any songs that, because of the response they got in the room, you either changed or dropped?

• 43:30Speaker 02

  I would, I definitely changed some stuff.

• 43:34Speaker 02

  And I did drop a couple of songs from the record, but it wasn't because it got a resounding thumbs down. It, it was just because a theme kind of appeared on the album. And the, the last song on the album's called All in a Life. And it, it's so, such like an emphatic ending.

• 43:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 43:55Speaker 02

  That this other song that we, we thought was a bit of a banger just didn't really, it couldn't finish it. So that was actually quite a nice dilemma, actually. So the album ended up being a 10-track album, we had these 12 songs. But just because it sort of played out, there was like a narrative that, I, I'd be lying if I said it was deliberate, but over time sort of presented itself. And when I put it together on the last day, I sort of was like, I just kept putting these songs behind, after this closing song. And because we'd done the closer live, it, it was a little bit of a, it's quite epic. So in so many ways, touring those songs was a game changer.

• 44:36Speaker 00

  So that presumably you recorded the tracks, they're just, they, they're not released on the album, so what are they going to end up as B-sides or something?

• 44:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, there'll be some, I wish there would be, you know, because I'm not sure, sometimes B-sides exist for me if I, if I do seven-inch vinyl, in my head, same sort of terminology. But usually, so the record company, bless them, a few months after the album's come out, they've, they've said, maybe you've got any, you must have some demos of some extra material and you're scrabbling around and I'll end up writing a couple of songs and like putting them on. Well, in this particular case, of course, Sud's Law, I've got two really good songs that have cost me a lot of money to record and nowhere to put them, so.

• 45:15Speaker 00

  No, Gallagher always makes the point that, like, John's a massive Frank Zappa fan, so the album binds you, the Hot Rat Sessions.

• 45:22Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 45:23Speaker 00

  How many tracks is on that, are on, are on that?

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Oh, 60, 70, 80 tracks.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Wow. So you can, you know, there's, there's demos and unreleased songs and stuff. Whereas with The Smiths, for instance, there's none of that. In that everything that released is perfect, and then there's, there's nothing else. There's no sort of demos album or unreleased rarities album.

• 45:45Speaker 02

  No, well, we, we had a go at, we recorded the first album with a different producer and then it got kind of nixed. So that was the one kind of curio, if you like. But the point you're making, actually, it, it, it gives me another reason, yeah, another reason to be proud of the band, because everything we did, it wasn't just that it was brilliant, but it was just so purposeful.

• 46:07Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 46:08Speaker 02

  When we wrote B-side, we, we did a good job of writing it before, really even before we cut it.

• 46:14Speaker 00

  I've got some questions for Johnny, but would you want to continue to embarrass me?

• 46:18Speaker 01

  No, don't embarrass you. I was going to say, let's go back to the year 2000. Imagine you've got your good t-shirt on.

• 46:25Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  What would 22-year-old Elis have been thinking about asking Johnny?

• 46:30Speaker 00

  Well, I've got, I've got a question that 45-year-old Elis would like to ask from last week, because I went to the auction.

• 46:37Speaker 02

  I believe so, yeah.

• 46:39Speaker 00

  And it was a very, as I walked to Christie's, because I really wanted to see the guitars before they were sold, and I found it odd, obviously, you know, we've met once, but

• 46:52Speaker 02

  I thought your voice was weird, yeah.

• 46:56Speaker 00

  But what was, you know, as, as a fan of yours for a very long time, I kind of had a relationship with those guitars. So I, I remember I, you know, I had the, the Smiths video, which is the collection of all the videos for the singles. So the Rickenbacker, I loved that, and the 355. So I felt nervous walking to Christie's oddly. So did you, on the morning, did you think, I've made a terrible mistake and what, what am I doing?

• 47:23Speaker 02

  No, I'm, I'm a bit more considered than that, Ellis, you know what I mean? But, you know, because if you're going to set all those wheels in motion, I appreciate the sentiment.

• 47:31Speaker 00

  I thought, well, if he doesn't want to do it, he's got half an hour to pull out.

• 47:35Speaker 02

  Some people plan things, Ellis, in their lives.

• 47:37Speaker 00

  Yes, yes.

• 47:38Speaker 02

  No, no. What, to be honest, so what happened was, that was, that was a Thursday, I think, the auction was a Thursday. And I hadn't seen it and I only saw it on the Monday and I was doing some press there, there was some telly and stuff to do. So I went on the Monday and then my wife Angie, you know, you may know this, but we've been together since we were 14 and 15. And I saw it and it, you know, it was really impressive when you walk up the stairs. And I've been to Christie's before, but it was, you know, beautifully done.

• 48:09Speaker 02

  And, yeah, so really impressive, like a museum, better than museum, whatever. And I went, I thought, oh, this is great. And then I brought Angie to see it on the Tuesday, there was no, the public weren't around, it was in the evening.

• 48:20Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 02

  And as, as I went up the stairs, I, I saw it through her eyes, it, it took on this really emotional thing for me, because I'm pretty matter-of-fact once I get cracking with something. And the, the thing that struck me straight away is, is one example that I was, that I've been using to hopefully illustrate it, is that there were guitars that I bought there, when it was 19, 20, and The Smiths were sort of breaking or whatever, when I'd gone to the cash point and pulled out, took out 700 quid to buy a guitar, and we had 1500 quid in the bank.

• 48:56Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 48:57Speaker 02

  And that was a pattern that went on for years. Right, so that, for some reason, that's really came home to me, this thing of when I go to the cash point, because I have this massive working-class sort of guilt about, I've got like 1100 quid, John Edwards from the Who, guys, well, in about 25 years, it might be worth two grand, that, and, so I had all this consideration, because it was a lot of money for me. I think that point I'm making is that you can see someone who's been around, as I have now for such a long time, Christie's Guitar Auction. Unless you know different, you could think that I'd been swanning around the world, like just buying up guitars, like, as a very rich man.

• 49:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 49:35Speaker 02

  But I was on, we were on rough trade.

• 49:37Speaker 00

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• 49:38Speaker 02

  Of course, I'd become very successful, but one of the things about making those Smiths records and being on rough trade was that everything was really low budget.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  So there was a point at which some of these guitars had represented over 50% of your entire assets?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:53Speaker 01

  Like, so one guitar would have been.

• 49:54Speaker 00

  What an romantic way of putting it.

• 49:56Speaker 01

  No, but you're right, because you walk in and you think, Johnny Marr, he's a rich rock star, of course, here's his guitars, but individual guitars would have been like half of the val, your complete value when you were 19?

• 50:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I know, listen, I'm totally aware of how privileged Diamond have been and all that, but, but that went on, that went on for quite a long time. So, you know, I remember the, the, and again, I was seeing all this through Angie's eyes, because, you know, when you've been with your girl for, since you were a boy, you know, there's a whole load of things, there's hers as well.

• 50:29Speaker 00

  Of course, yeah.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  And it's all part of her story. And then my kids and everything, you know, they've not been like locked away in a vault by the Thames or anything.

• 50:37Speaker 01

  Have you ever brought much music memorabilia? Have you bought stuff at auction from any of your heroes?

• 50:43Speaker 02

  I bought one once for, and a little bit for a lark, really, but it was, for, because it was a good cause. And it was in 1988, I'd just joined the Pretenders, so I've seen Chrissie every day, Chrissie Hind. Chrissie's a very generous person, philanthropic, because she does a lot of stuff for animals and all kinds of causes and stuff. And she just called me one morning, she said, hey, listen, there's an auction going on today, and it's for PETA, the animal welfare organisation. And so she really caught me like last minute and she goes, so Jeff Beck, Jeff's going to put one of his guitars in, in this auction and I think it'd be really good, do you fancy buying it? And so I was like, oh, yeah, sure.

• 51:28Speaker 02

  Thinking, I hope it's not like 25 grand, 30 grand, right? And, but she, well, anyway, Jeff's gonna put it in and he says it's a little bit rough and it's a little bit of a dog or whatever. But anyway, I think it'd be really good if me and you like bid against each other and, and it'll be a good sort of thing for the auction style. All right. Um, okay, I'll do that. So I said, so we, we, where are we gonna tap out? You know, like, um, and she, she was like, well, well, Jeff says it's a bit of a rough guitar. So I said, all right, so 800 quid, right? It seemed reasonable and nice enough for charity. So this event was on, it was in the HMV store, uh, at, near Marble Arch, the end of Oxford Street. And anyway, it went live on Radio One, or I think it was.

• 52:12Speaker 02

  Bill Wyman was the auctioneer. And so there was a few of these lots going and then it gets to Jeff's guitar and so, and he, I'm listening to it through the radio, goes, oh, we've got, uh, from Manchester, coming down the line, we've got Johnny Marr live and whatever, woo, all this going on. And, um, we'll start the bidding at 100 quid. Chrissie goes 100 quid and someone shouts 125 and Chrissie goes 200 and I go 250, Johnny Marr, 250. She goes 450 and like, okay, 500, someone else bids. And then she just goes 900. I'm like, wait a minute. She goes like, oh, all right, so I go on, okay, 950. She goes 1100. I'm like, what?

• 52:57Speaker 02

  So I, I said, uh, so I said, we put Chrissie on the phone, please. This is on live radio, you know what I mean? So it was pretty funny. So she gets, she's like, hey, how's it going? You know, this, this is being broadcast. I go, what are you doing? We've possibly agreed 800. And she goes, oh no, it's fine, it's one of Jeff's guitars. So listen, okay, well, don't go too crazy. So everyone's sort of laughing. She goes 1800. I'm like, what? Yes. Anyway, so I ended up buying it for about 2,200 quid. And, um, uh, I think Jeff felt so guilty that he contacted me later that day and he said, listen, I'm gonna have to give you some parts for this guitar. Cause it was in pieces. Um, and anyway, but I did use it in the end because I was a big Jeff Beck fan.

• 53:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, yeah. Was it Stratocaster or?

• 53:45Speaker 02

  It was, yeah.

• 53:45Speaker 01

  Well, we're gonna sell one final, uh, piece of memorabilia here today. Um, I have got several bidders on the line on my phone, Johnny.

• 53:56Speaker 00

  What's going on now?

• 53:58Speaker 01

  Uh, the auction's about to begin. Can we see a lot number 835, uh, please?

• 54:04Speaker 02

  Would it be this?

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Oh, here we go. It's an original Johnny Marr Plectrum.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Used, actually used by me only this morning.

• 54:16Speaker 00

  Really? You're joking?

• 54:18Speaker 01

  It's got Marr magic in it.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 54:21Speaker 00

  Oh my god.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  Um, so, uh, this, what was the charity, Johnny, that you were raising?

• 54:27Speaker 00

  National Autism Society.

• 54:28Speaker 01

  Okay, so it's a very good cause, Ellis, and all, all proceeds will be going, well, obviously there's the commission that the auction has, that's me, uh, take. So, uh, just to remind you to the seller, it's 12 and a half percent to the buyer, it's 20 percent, so that's 32 and a half percent does go to me.

• 54:44Speaker 00

  Right.

• 54:45Speaker 01

  But a percentage of that will be handed on to the charity.

• 54:49Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 54:50Speaker 01

  So, uh, starting the bidding, I've got Japan, Berlin and Los Angeles on the line. We start the bidding, Ellis, at 25 pounds.

• 54:57Speaker 00

  25, yeah, 30 pounds.

• 55:00Speaker 01

  I, I've got 30 pounds, so. I've got 35 pounds, Ellis.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  50 pounds.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Oh, gasps across the room. I've got 55 from Japan, I've got 60 from Berlin. Come on, Ellis, this is a.

• 55:16Speaker 00

  75 pounds.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Huge, huge gasps. Let's just, uh, hold that up for the cameras, it's a beautiful.

• 55:23Speaker 00

  I really want this Plectrum.

• 55:26Speaker 01

  It's probably worth about 650 billion grand. So the minute you're getting, I've got 80 from Los Angeles, I've got 95 on the phone, Ellis.

• 55:36Speaker 00

  Around 100 quid.

• 55:37Speaker 01

  It's around 100 quid. We now go up in tens.

• 55:40Speaker 02

  Do we?

• 55:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 55:41Speaker 02

  I'm actually quite nervous, mate.

• 55:43Speaker 00

  I'm quite nervous.

• 55:44Speaker 01

  110?

• 55:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, 120.

• 55:48Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  130.

• 55:49Speaker 00

  Come on, mate.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  140, okay, Berlin are out.

• 55:55Speaker 00

  Berlin are out.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Los Angeles is out. Japan, 140, 150, that's a bit cheeky, actually.

• 56:02Speaker 00

  All right, 150 quid.

• 56:04Speaker 01

  Sold!

• 56:04Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 56:06Speaker 01

  150 quid.

• 56:08Speaker 00

  And do I get it now?

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 56:09Speaker 02

  I present it to you.

• 56:11Speaker 00

  I'm absolutely thrilled. Thank you, Johnny.

• 56:14Speaker 02

  eBay gold, that, mate.

• 56:16Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh. What thickness is this?

• 56:19Speaker 02

  It's a 0.71 millimeter.

• 56:21Speaker 00

  Oh, you're 0.73.

• 56:22Speaker 03

  That's a good question.

• 56:23Speaker 02

  Ah, okay. Yeah, it's a valid question.

• 56:26Speaker 00

  It's a valid question. I absolutely love this and I'm delighted. Can I ask you one more question? Cause I watched all of the stuff around the auction and you've often said that guitars come with songs inside them.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  What, so you didn't write them yourself?

• 56:46Speaker 00

  So there's, there's two famous stories around this, cause Noel Gallagher agrees. So there's the, the 355 that you bought and then you instantly played, um, Heaven Ours, I'm Miserable Now, wasn't it? And then Girl Afraid that afternoon and you were like, the guitar came with these songs. And you gave Les Paul to Noel Gallagher and he wrote Sidaway as soon as he took it out of the case. So you've sold that Les Paul, well, you gave the Les Paul away, but you, you sold the 355 and the Rickenback and everything. So had those guitars run out of songs?

• 57:15Speaker 02

  I don't think so, no. I'll tell you why, because when we were doing the promo, the original build up for the Christie stuff, um, I, I did a little film for him and when I was playing the 355 in between takes, I was going, oh no. Oh man, I, it, there's just something uncanny about that guitar. Now, it may be less esoteric than, you know, I'm giving it credit for, but, uh, like associative and all of that, but I'd be, I'd be hard pushed to, to replace it, I think. It was really, it was almost playing itself, this guitar, it was amazing.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Cause that's, that was the one I was amazed at, that you sold.

• 57:57Speaker 01

  Anyway, it's been a huge joy, a long-term goal of ours to, to have you on the show.

• 58:02Speaker 00

  My voice stayed normal.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Your voice stayed normal.

• 58:05Speaker 00

  My voice stayed so normal.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Ellis's, Ellis's meta hero and come out unscathed. He's got his Plectrum, we've raised a bit of money and we're so excited to hear your new album, The Age of Everything, out on October the 2nd. And also you feature on four songs on the new Gorillaz album, The Mountain.

• 58:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was amazing doing that, cause, um, yeah, Damon's, as in case anyone hasn't noticed, is a very inspired, uh, inspired person, as is Jamie as well. Um, yeah, you know, I, I love, uh, I, it's always an amazing privilege, I'm not, you know, not just saying it, but to, to play on anyone's record, it is a privilege and I don't take it lightly, but, um, it, I wasn't expecting it to be influenced so much by Vedanta or, you know, Hinduism.

• 58:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:53Speaker 02

  I, I didn't know that that was what was going on on the new Gorillaz album and that is a, some, something of an interest of mine anyway. So there was, there was a bigger thing that sort of clicked with me and Damon and Jamie had spent quite a lot of time in India over the last couple of years, so that really sort clicked with me. And, uh, and because of that, they've got Anushka Shankar, who's an amazing musician, playing on the track. So then when we played live, we did this gig at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium.

• 59:20Speaker 00

  Oh, Griff Reese was there, wasn't he?

• 59:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, oh, yeah, I love, uh, who doesn't? Um, but hearing Anushka, you know, it's like, oh my goodness, you know, you've got these gigs and everything, but I, and I'm able these days to take at the moment, I think comes with age, to actually take it all in and just be like, God, this is an amazing moment.

• 59:40Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 59:40Speaker 02

  Cause I had a bit of like, a bit, what, if you don't mind me saying, I did, did, did an Ellis win thing.

• 59:46Speaker 00

  I want that to become part of the vernacular, yeah.

• 59:48Speaker 02

  No, but when I, I played, I played, when I was young, I played with Simple Minds at Mandela Day and, and just things just got on top of me really and I went out and played, but I kind of freaked out a little bit.

• 59:59Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:00:00Speaker 02

  And, um, uh, and I, I sort of look back on that and go, man, why, why, why? So, uh, you know, uh, so this time with the Gorillaz thing, I was able, that, that concert was really amazing and it is something that comes with experience, being calm and really digging it. And then, but it's not every day that you've got Anushka Shankar in stereo, playing a sitar in, and you, and I did have the presence of mind to just be listening to it and go, what the hell is that?

• 1:00:27Speaker 00

  Oh, that's great, I love that.

• 1:00:29Speaker 02

  So it was amazing, yeah.

• 1:00:29Speaker 00

  In front of 65,000 people.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Damon, I was really pleased for, I was really impressed and, um, uh, I really took in what, what Damon was doing there, uh, in, in front of that amount of people.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Well, thank you so much for coming in, Johnny, we wish you, uh, all the best.

• 1:00:46Speaker 02

  Thanks for the invite.

• 1:00:47Speaker 01

  And, um, I'm sure you'll get a call when we get round to recording our own album, feel free to turn it down. You don't, don't feel pressurised to do that.

• 1:00:57Speaker 03

  Cheers for a bit of clout, where was you for Ellis? How's he done today? Has he been all right?

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Oh, he's a, he's a total hero, yeah.

• 1:01:02Speaker 00

  That was all right, actually.

• 1:01:03Speaker 03

  That was all right, you happy with that as well?

• 1:01:04Speaker 00

  I should be surprised all the time. That went better than when I was surprised by Gera Thomas, this, I grist.

• 1:01:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, it did.

• 1:01:10Speaker 00

  I did fall apart when I met him. But this was, this was good. This, this went.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  No, the, um, no, cause I, that, our exchange last time, the, which in my.

• 1:01:19Speaker 00

  Which you've forgotten?

• 1:01:20Speaker 02

  No, it became, I, I didn't, cause I heard about it, because your telling of it was so brilliant. I didn't know any of that was going on.

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  It's often an internal experience, isn't it? Shame is very internalised emotion.

• 1:01:33Speaker 00

  I went to the toilet to clear my throat, but even the coughs were high.

• 1:01:41Speaker 00

  And I was thinking, why is this? How is this happening now?

• 1:01:52Speaker 04

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:02:23Speaker 05

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 1:02:33Speaker 05

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said, you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up?

• 1:02:39Speaker 00

  Wanted, I'd fled to fall of two cops.

• 1:02:42Speaker 05

  His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime.

• 1:02:48Speaker 06

  You're the one who ended up going to prison, don't you, kiddo?

• 1:02:50Speaker 05

  I'm Josie Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:03:00Speaker 01

  Well, didn't he do well, Dave?

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  He did. Very proud of him, actually.

• 1:03:05Speaker 01

  Okay. And do you know what I've just realised was a genius move?

• 1:03:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  When he put his Cymru Connection coat on.

• 1:03:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  Because he was a bit nervous, because he's got two food stains on his t-shirt. Imagine if, imagine if Johnny.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  No, no, it's all right.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  You avoided it.

• 1:03:27Speaker 03

  It's okay.

• 1:03:28Speaker 01

  Imagine if, that would have been a nightmare. If, if the photo of Johnny Marr had zoomed in and he's got two food stains on his t-shirt.

• 1:03:36Speaker 03

  Where's, let me see if it's noticed on the pictures.

• 1:03:39Speaker 00

  How did that happen? How? I was eat, do you know what it was? I was eating a sandwich at pace.

• 1:03:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was eating a sandwich at pace.

• 1:03:47Speaker 00

  Because we're recording at a different time and usually I have lunch, but I had to go to prep.

• 1:03:51Speaker 03

  No, you can't even see.

• 1:03:51Speaker 00

  And I had to eat and walk.

• 1:03:53Speaker 03

  Even in the pictures you're taking, you can't see it. You're all right.

• 1:03:56Speaker 00

  God's sake.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  You are blessed.

• 1:03:58Speaker 00

  And he hugged me and he got covered in all my dry mustard and.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  You got a fist pump off him, you got a hug off him, you got a handshake off him.

• 1:04:06Speaker 01

  Two hugs off him.

• 1:04:07Speaker 03

  Two hugs.

• 1:04:08Speaker 00

  That, okay, let's tick them off. Griff Reese, it went well.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:12Speaker 03

  Griff Reese went well.

• 1:04:13Speaker 00

  And now I would, and now I'm relaxed around him.

• 1:04:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:04:17Speaker 00

  Graeme Coxon, dare I say it, it went well.

• 1:04:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:04:21Speaker 00

  And, you know, I've only met him once, but yeah, that, that, that was fine.

• 1:04:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:04:28Speaker 00

  Gareth Bale, there are things I would change.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  Being in full kit.

• 1:04:32Speaker 00

  Being in full kit being the main one.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:37Speaker 01

  But consider, considering you were in full kit, I don't think it's ever gone better with someone with Gareth Bale who's wearing full kit.

• 1:04:45Speaker 00

  Bizarrely, it was, I didn't want to do it. It was actually a great icebreaker.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:04:50Speaker 00

  Because, because what would happen is I would ask him something, then he'd clock again that I was in full kit and would just start giggling. But it's, it's an icebreaker.

• 1:04:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:59Speaker 00

  Who else do we have?

• 1:05:00Speaker 03

  Well, Gareth, do you want to assess Gareth?

• 1:05:02Speaker 00

  Gareth Thomas, I, we had him on distant pod a couple of weeks later. That was better. That was better. Disaster on this show, but I was prepared for distant pod.

• 1:05:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Speaker 00

  And now, you know, I wouldn't say I'm in a total state of embarrassment. Johnny Marr, I feel an enormous, I feel like I've exorcised ghosts.

• 1:05:21Speaker 01

  That went very well.

• 1:05:22Speaker 00

  The first time was bad.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  But also that went better than even like a pretty decent interview with an engaged presenter. You know, that was better than, you know, your average PR junket.

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, because Ellis had good, you asked some good questions there.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  There was fondness.

• 1:05:40Speaker 03

  Had your guitars run out of songs, Ellis.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Oh, Ellis.

• 1:05:43Speaker 03

  That is, that fooled me.

• 1:05:45Speaker 01

  I did a good joke, didn't I, Dave?

• 1:05:47Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:05:47Speaker 00

  You did do a good joke.

• 1:05:48Speaker 01

  Guitar comes with songs.

• 1:05:50Speaker 03

  So it was your songs, Johnny.

• 1:05:51Speaker 00

  But he said that about that guitar for years and then he sold it. I was like, so has it run out?

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 00

  What happens next?

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  Good cue. Good cue.

• 1:05:59Speaker 00

  Who else? There's another one. Aaron Ramsey, I had lunch with him and it worked. Dare I say, it worked.

• 1:06:06Speaker 03

  Great.

• 1:06:07Speaker 00

  Okay, maybe I'm improving, maybe I'm getting, I've got food on me, so obviously this.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  Maybe he's ready for Maka.

• 1:06:15Speaker 00

  When not, do you know what I need to do when I meet, if I meet Maka?

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  Do 100 press ups as soon as he walks in.

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  No, I need to.

• 1:06:23Speaker 03

  Pour a pot nipple down your top.

• 1:06:25Speaker 00

  No, I need to eat some sort of stain-free, calorific.

• 1:06:29Speaker 01

  Invisible food.

• 1:06:30Speaker 00

  Invisible water. Like Huel, I could just drink Huel from a straw.

• 1:06:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:06:35Speaker 00

  And then, you know, yeah.

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Or eat naked, then get dressed.

• 1:06:41Speaker 00

  Before Maka. Well, what would you do? Wouldn't be a surprise, I could build up for it and I could practise my voice.

• 1:06:46Speaker 03

  I don't think we'd surprise you in Maka, I think we're not that cruel.

• 1:06:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, but then it allows me to eat naked before I meet him and then pop the clothes on before he comes in.

• 1:06:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  You see?

• 1:06:57Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  You get it?

• 1:06:58Speaker 01

  There's always the chance if you surprise Elis with Maka.

• 1:07:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  He will panic, remove all his clothes, say sorry, Paul. I'll be with you in 10 minutes. Eats the sandwich. He then puts all his clothes back on and it started the interview off on a strange tangent.

• 1:07:13Speaker 00

  I took my bloody t-shirt off when he was leaving, so he's seen the stains.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  I don't think he did.

• 1:07:18Speaker 03

  He was already in love with you by then.

• 1:07:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:20Speaker 03

  You blinded him.

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  He was blinded by your professionalism.

• 1:07:23Speaker 03

  It's a numerous.

• 1:07:24Speaker 00

  It's numerous, Dave.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  How have I done this?

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  But you got your plaited room?

• 1:07:29Speaker 00

  I did, didn't ask him my questions about Burt Jang, but that's fine.

• 1:07:32Speaker 03

  That's fine.

• 1:07:33Speaker 00

  That's for next time.

• 1:07:34Speaker 01

  150 quid to charity.

• 1:07:35Speaker 03

  Oh, lovely.

• 1:07:36Speaker 01

  Minus commission for the auction house, for both buyer and the seller. So that is around, call it 50 quid to me.

• 1:07:45Speaker 03

  Okay, okay.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  And we bid you farewell. Thank you very much for listening. Bye bye.

• 1:07:49Speaker 03

  Goodbye.

• 1:07:59Speaker 04

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone. And including dental, vision and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage HMO and PPO organisation with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:08:30Speaker 05

  1965, London. The world's largest uncut diamond has been stolen from the Natural History Museum.

• 1:08:39Speaker 05

  Shortly after, a young London window cleaner is arrested. They said, you're nicked, you're in a lot of trouble. But was he set up?

• 1:08:46Speaker 00

  Wanted, I'd fled to fall of two cops.

• 1:08:48Speaker 05

  His family say he is guilty, but of a totally different crime.

• 1:08:54Speaker 06

  You're the one who ended up going to prison, don't you, kiddo?

• 1:08:56Speaker 05

  I'm Josie Long and this is Rough Diamond. Listen now wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Thanks for listening to the show and you can follow us on Instagram and TikTok at Ellis and John for more content.

• 1:09:11Speaker 00

  And you can watch highlights of every episode over on our YouTube page at Ellis and John.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  Plus, you can find all things EJJR, including links to our Patreon, our merch and much more by heading to ellisonjohn.com. See you next time.