From $8K to $100K in 3 Months: How Siff Haider Built Arrae

Do you have an idea that keeps coming back to you, but you’re still wondering if it’s worth pursuing? In this episode, I sit down with Siffat Haider, co-founder & co-CEO at Arrae. Siff shares how she went from researching health and wellness for herself to creating a supplement company with her husband, why she focused on building an incredible product before anything else, and how gifting, word of mouth, and community helped Arrae grow organically. We also talk about raising capital, choosing investors you actually want to partner with, building a team, tracking your marketing, and why focusing on profitability earlier matters. Get ready to take your idea seriously, start small, and build something you’re proud of. Check out our Sponsors: Shopify - Try the ecommerce platform I trust for Glōci. Sign up for your $1/month trial period at http://Shopify.com/happy. Monarch Money - Get your first year of Monarch Core for half off at http://Monarch.com with code EYH. Northwest Registered Agent - Visit http://northwestregisteredagent.com/EarnFree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Indeed - Indeed is giving Earn Your Happy listeners a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to help get your job the premium status it deserves. Just go to http://Indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on Earn Your Happy. Momentous - If you want to try Momentous Signature Spec Creatine, head to http://livemomentous.com and use code EARN for up to 35% off your entire first order. SmileSet - Listeners of our show get an additional 35% discount when they go to http://SMILESET.com/earn. Faire - Sign up today and get 50% off your first wholesale order, up to $100 at https://faire.com/happy50. Terms may apply. Life at the Speed of Play - Go to http://getmarksbook.com/earn to get two copies for the price of one—one for you and one for a friend. HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 Meet Siffat Haider, the Co-Founder & Co-CEO at Arrae. 06:15 What sparked your decision to start a podcast? 14:30 How to take action on an idea even when you don’t have experience or a network. 23:30 What does the 2 year journey to launch a supplement brand really look like? 30:00 How gifting and word of mouth can turn early customers into powerful advocates. 33:30 When is the right time to start hiring and delegating in your business? 40:30 The strategies that helped Arrae build a powerful email list. 47:45 How raising capital takes you away from daily business operations. 55:15 Why you should start tracking your marketing metrics earlier. 01:03:00 What should you do when an idea keeps “poking” at you? RESOURCES Listen to Siff’s “The Dream Bigger Podcast” HERE! Get your Arrae products HERE! Get on the waitlist for Mentor Collective Mastermind HERE! Try glōci for 40% off your first order with code HAPPY at checkout - head to getgloci.com FOLLOW Follow me: @loriharder Follow glōci: @getgloci Follow Siff: @siffhaider

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Shopify. Ready to launch your business before Black Friday? Go to Shopify.com/happy to start your free trial. Monarch Money, Monarch breaks the debt cycle, turning that endless gloom into a plan with an end date. Use code EYH at monarch.com to get your first year of Monarch Core half off at just $50. Northwest Registered Agent, Northwest gives you access to thousands of free guides, tools, and attorney drafted documents to help you run your business with confidence. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/earnfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Indeed, spend less time searching and more time actually interviewing candidates

• 0:43Speaker 00

  who check all your boxes. They're giving Earn Your Happy a $75 sponsored job credit. Go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Life at the Speed of Play, Mark is offering our listeners two books for the price of one. Go to getmarksbook.com/earn. Sequencing, sequencing.com is offering your listeners up to 10% off your full genome test plus free shipping. Go to sequencing.com and use promo code EARN for 10% off.

• 1:20Speaker 00

  Okay, whenever I'm traveling, I love to skip like the main mall of the town and I like to hunt down all of those little shops on the corner where the locals love to go where all the good stuff is. So candles made by local people, a sweatshirt with the town's name on it, hot sauce made 20 minutes away and the owner knows everybody's name. And I've also been on the other side of that shelf because I built a product from scratch and I'll never forget, the first independent store who believed in it enough to put it on their shelves. Big box stores sell stuff, but small shops tell a story about people. So if you own one of those shops, you need to know about FAIRE. FAIRE is a B2B marketplace that makes it easy

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• 2:44Speaker 01

  We took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone. Okay, like let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them. This is your life. Like you're a builder, you're a creator. And so you, you have to integrate what you like doing and who you like and who you enjoy because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  Siff, welcome to the Earn Your Happy Podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. Thank you so much for having me. I have been a very long time listener of yours and so this is very exciting.

• 3:31Speaker 00

  This is mind blowing to me. Like when I, I remember when we got the email for me to come on your podcast, I was like, is it, it's her? She, she listens? Hold on a minute. That's crazy. How did you find it?

• 3:44Speaker 01

  That is crazy to me because I think I found your work like 2018, I want to say.

• 3:51Speaker 00

  You are kidding me.

• 3:52Speaker 01

  No, I'm not joking. And that, like I got into like personal development and all of that. I want to say in like 2014, 2015, and you were one of the first people I stumbled on. And I just, I loved, I love the idea of earning your happy. It is so empowering and I, like I learned a lot from you. And so, you know, like your podcast was on and off on my, like Apple Podcast listener, like history for like ages. And so, you know, at one point, I was like, I have to get her on at some point. And so I was so happy when we could make it happen. And now I'm here. It's very full circle.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  Oh, I love that so much. So you're saying it can fully take credit for all of your success?

• 4:31Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 4:34Speaker 00

  Okay, so you also have a podcast.

• 4:36Speaker 01

  I do.

• 4:37Speaker 00

  You have the Dream Bigger Podcast. And we were just talking about how like before, it doesn't matter how many podcasts you've done. I think I've now done over 1,400 podcasts.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  Insane.

• 4:48Speaker 00

  And you've done, you, you've had your podcast for a few years now?

• 4:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, 2019 is when I launched it.

• 4:53Speaker 00

  Oh my God, you've had it a while.

• 4:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, it's been a minute.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  I didn't know you had it that last episode.

• 4:59Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh. Okay.

• 5:00Speaker 01

  I signed with Dear Media in 2021, but I used to self, I did everything. I did every job.

• 5:05Speaker 00

  I love that. So I thought you launched with Dear Media, but you were doing that on your own, probably in a closet somewhere.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Literally, yeah. In my like tiny little apartment. Initially, it was me doing all the edits, everything. Then I brought my brother on as my assistant and then he helped me.

• 5:21Speaker 00

  My family, yeah. Literally my brother and my husband's brother works for us.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  I love that. And then I signed with Dear Media in 2021. So I actually started the podcast before a rave. And so I've had it for a while and I'm just, I mean, I'm like you. I feel like we're both very curious people. And I think that that is one of the qualities that you need in order to sustain a podcast over the long run. Like you have to genuinely love it and be curious and want to like share good information with people.

• 5:47Speaker 00

  Totally. So you were, so you listened, I know you said you found my podcast. What else were you kind of listening to? And what were some of the, tell me some of like the breakthrough moments for you? Or what do I mean by that is like when you were first starting out on your personal development journey, like what were some of the mindset that you had to get over? And what were you finding? Like whether it was books or podcasts that helped you break through it?

• 6:12Speaker 01

  So I actually love this question because when I reflect back on who I was before I started, before I really got intentional about wanting to shift, I was a completely different person. I was very much someone who was in a victim mindset. I felt like I couldn't control the outcome of things. I felt like life was happening to me and I just wanted to shift that. And so initially, actually, the funny thing is the first book that I got in this category was The Secret. Okay. And it was from my mom. She was like, you need to read this book. And this was back in 2014. And I remember I was reading

• 6:54Speaker 01

  it on the plane ride because I was away in Europe with my family and I was going back to Toronto. I lived in Canada back then. And I was on the plane, reading the book. And basically I was panicked about, this is like the smallest little thing, but it's just like, it shows the power and that's when I went all in. It was back then for the luggage carts, you know, like to, for like to store all your, to take all your luggage and like the carts, you know what I mean?

• 7:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally.

• 7:19Speaker 01

  Okay, so there was a system back then where you had to put in like a dollar coin to get that cart. And I had so much luggage. And so I was on the plane panicking. I was like, what am I going to do? I don't have a dollar. Like, how am I going to get this cart? And then I was like, okay, no, let me test what the secret book says. Let's see if it works. I'm just gonna do a little experiment and see if I can calm my mind and just know that the universe is going to take care of me and that it's, it's all going to be okay. And I get there and they had removed the dollar system. And so all the carts were free. And at that point I was like, okay.

• 7:52Speaker 00

  This shit works.

• 7:53Speaker 01

  This shit works. This shit works. And it was so small, but that's kind of what set me on my path. And then it was, you know, taking ownership over things, really taking intentional actions to push myself forward. It was building habits and kind of showing up as the version of myself who had the things that I really wanted and just becoming really intentional about those things. And it wasn't just from a career standpoint, because at the end of the day, everything kind of bleeds into each other. And so it was me showing up as the best partner that I could be and being really intentional about how I was spending my time, even getting really intentional about my insecurities around, okay, if I'm gossiping, why do I do that? Why, why am I doing that? First, it's like such bad energy,

• 8:36Speaker 01

  but why do I even feel the need to comment on someone else's life decisions? You know? So that was like a journey. I mean, I'm still on that journey, you know? You don't just arrive one day and you're like, okay, Dalai Lama vibes. Yeah.

• 8:48Speaker 00

  Same. Yeah. Where, so where were you working at that point? What were you doing for a living?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  So 2014, I had just graduated. And so I was actually like on that plane ride. I was coming back to Toronto to start an internship in PR. So I did that. And then I went on to work for Elle, like the magazine. And then that was like in their Canadian offices. And then while I was working at Elle, I had a blog and I was kind of doing both at the same time. And

• 9:22Speaker 01

  A year into my role at L, a little bit over a year, I decided that I was gonna leave my job there and go all in on my blog. Because, you know, it was, I was young and I was like, okay, I may as well try this out and let's see what happens.

• 9:35Speaker 00

  What was the blog about?

• 9:37Speaker 01

  It was, it was actually like an interesting foray into Array. I feel like it's all like, as I look back on it, I'm like, oh, like that was just like the path that I was meant to be on. But essentially, it was, it was everything from beauty to skincare to wellness. And I would share really in-depth things about, things I'd read, I'd learned about from a book that I was implementing in my own life. And then what would happen was anytime I'd put out an article and they were like, pretty detailed articles on like, okay, like this is the skincare I'm using and blah, blah, blah. This is why.

• 10:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  People would ask me more questions like, oh, can you like go more into the science? And I was always someone who was very curious again, and I was always reading and looking at scientific papers. So then I had this realization. I was like, what if I could bring this information that I'm constantly learning directly from the source and give it to my audience? And so that was the idea behind the podcast. Cause I was like, everyone's dream looks a little bit different. How can I help people achieve their dreams, whatever their dreams are? And so it was speaking to top dermatologists, top wellness experts, then founders and kind of giving people the tools that they needed from successful people to achieve what they wanted for themselves as well.

• 10:47Speaker 00

  Hmm. Okay. So the podcast was born, you're doing all the personal development. When does the idea for Array come in?

• 10:57Speaker 01

  2018.

• 10:57Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 10:58Speaker 01

  So I got into health and wellness in 2015.

• 11:03Speaker 00

  And what did that look like? What was the initial getting into health and wellness?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  So I, it's funny because I feel like all these improvements in my life and the intention, intentionality kind of began all around like a one, two-year timeline. So for my entire life, I was someone with a really poor immune system. So I was perpetually on this hamster wheel of getting sick, taking antibiotics, getting better, doing it over and over and over again.

• 11:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  And I mean, it had gotten bad to the point where like, I mean, this is TMI, but I became all of a sudden very prone to UTIs. And then I became antibiotic resistant and because I was just popping it like.

• 11:42Speaker 00

  That's a nightmare.

• 11:43Speaker 01

  It's terrible.

• 11:44Speaker 00

  Horrible to live with.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Like, it's also very scary because I wasn't getting to the root of anything.

• 11:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:49Speaker 01

  And I had no guidance. And so in my early twenties, when I started working at L, actually, I ended up fracturing a rib from a chronic cough and I went to my doctor. They obviously did the x-ray. They were like, well, your ribs fractured. And I was like, okay, crazy, crazy.

• 12:05Speaker 00

  From coughing.

• 12:05Speaker 01

  From coughing as a 23-year-old, I think, 23, 24, like that's, you're pretty young.

• 12:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  And I was like, okay, well, what do I do to make sure something like this doesn't happen again? They're like, here's some codeine, go home, you'll be fine. And I was like.

• 12:18Speaker 00

  Oh my god, great, wonderful. Thank you so much.

• 12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I mean, it was just a, here's something that'll help you today and then that's it. There's no guidance as to what you can do afterwards. And so at that point, I feel like something in me broke where I was like, I have been doing things this one way for a really long time. It's just not working anymore. I need to change something. So let me look into the holistic world, which back then was very granola, very, I mean, it just wasn't like a cool thing that

• 12:51Speaker 00

  No.

• 12:51Speaker 01

  the girls were doing.

• 12:52Speaker 00

  I remember.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  It was, it was a weird, it was a weird segment of people. And I mean, it was just also so inaccessible, right? And so I just, I was like, okay, I'm gonna look into every book I can find, every scientific paper I can find on everything from overall lifestyle, but also herbs, minerals, vitamins, like what can I take to also start to feel better? And became this guinea pig on myself and started to see changes in my immune system. And then I kind of got obsessed with health and wellness where I was like, I, you have so much power. It felt like the power was back in my hands.

• 13:27Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  You know, and it was a very empowering feeling. And so from there, it was just me, you know, getting really into the nitty gritty of how could I fix anything that I was dealing with? You know, if it was bloating or whatever these issues were that I was dealing with. And in 2018, I remember sitting on our couch and I was telling Nish, I was like, I wish I could create a supplement that would just address these problems and doing, do it in a really chic way. Like there's nothing out there like this. And he's like, well, let's do it. And so in 2018 is when we had the idea for Array. That's when we started to work on it and it took us two years to get it to market. Um, I mean, it's ingestibles. It is obviously, it has to be perfect.

• 14:08Speaker 01

  But yeah, that was, that was the journey. But all of those things, whether it was me deciding to kind of take ownership of where my life was at.

• 14:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  All the way into my health, it all started to happen in tandem, I feel like.

• 14:21Speaker 00

  Hmm. That's, that's typically, I feel like in order to launch what you launched as well, I feel like there has to be a passion behind it. There has to be such an interest. Because there's no way that you've gotten to where you are right now without being interested in it and also having it be a piece of your life, like an actual part of your life that's so integrated that it's, it's something that's so second nature to you. Or it just, I see so many things die when that's not how people start. When it's just like, oh, it's a thing I could be interested in, or it's trendy, or.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  That's the thing. I think your soul needs to be in it.

• 14:56Speaker 00

  I think your soul has to like, yes, be intertwined. It has to like come from gutturally within.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And I just, I don't think you can build a true, I mean, maybe some people can, okay? But I wasn't built to create something just as a means to an end or just as a money grab. Like that's just not who I am. I'm really driven by purpose and I feel like when I do something, I have to be all in or I just can't get myself to do it.

• 15:25Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 15:26Speaker 00

  I try to, you know, the people who maybe do it, who aren't passionately in it about the product. I have met people, which is an interesting perspective, who are so passionate about the build.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  Exactly. So.

• 15:37Speaker 00

  But you have to have that passion.

• 15:38Speaker 01

  You have to have one or the other because I mean, at the end of the day, okay, they're a little bit different, but they're also kind of the same. Because you're either interested in the, the, the act of building the business or the product, you know, in some, in some cases, both as well. So, but it's very important to be intrinsically motivated by that.

• 15:55Speaker 00

  Mm-hmm. Okay. So we're sitting on the couch, you're sitting on the couch with your husband and he says, let's build it.

• 16:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:02Speaker 00

  And you're just like, yeah. Or were you like, all the things come up of going, wait, who are we to do this? What are, what are you feeling in that moment?

• 16:10Speaker 01

  The most excitement.

• 16:10Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 16:11Speaker 01

  The most excitement. I, I just, it's so funny because for me, I feel like doubt around doing something, it doesn't really arise. I don't know why it's like that. I think it's just some part of my DNA where if I feel like I'm meant to do something, I'm just gonna do it. And I, the, the failure part isn't in my brain because I'm like, I can't sit here and not do something. If I don't do something, it'll bother me more than if I were to do it and fail. So when it was, let's do it. I was like, let's do it. I've never been more ready to do anything in my life. And I also knew as well that I had the best built-in co-founder with Nish.

• 16:52Speaker 01

  I mean, we covered every base and I was so acutely aware of that going into business with him where I was like, there's no way, like knock on wood. I was like, there's no way this can fail if it's the two of us. Like we, like from a logistical perspective, we covered too much ground and we were both equally good at the things that the other was bad at. So I was like, we're gonna figure this out. We're just gonna figure this out.

• 17:17Speaker 00

  Yeah. Okay. So to somebody who's thinking about it right now, who maybe doesn't have that person as well. But like, we want to borrow part of the thing where you, you, you had said, you know, there is, there isn't a part of me that's like, what, what else would I be doing? Like, let's build this. What else would I be doing?

• 17:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 17:32Speaker 00

  What would you tell them to focus on? Like what, what should they do to get to that place?

• 17:37Speaker 01

  I think from a mindset perspective, I think coming to terms with the fact that I feel like life is too short to sit there and wonder what could have been, right?

• 17:46Speaker 00

  So short, so fast.

• 17:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. And also there was this book that I read by the author who wrote Eat, Pray, Love.

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Elizabeth Gilbert, Big Magic?

• 17:56Speaker 01

  Yes. Yes. And there is this thing that she talks about, and I read this when that book initially came out and it always stuck with me. Where it's like, ideas are these like fluid things that have a mind or body or whatever of their own. Okay? And they come and they land on someone and they, they kind of poke at you. But if you aren't the person who decides to partner with that idea, it will go to that other person. Because you weren't meant to do it. So I, I feel like that's the case. So if there is someone who's listening here and they have this feeling, this like instinct that, okay, there's this idea that I really want to do, but, but what if there's too much competition?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  You know, what if, I mean, it's been done, maybe it's been done really well. Okay. So I'll say two things. Number one is that the competition thing is such a limiting belief. Because let's look at restaurants, let's look at actors, let's look at singers, let's look at any, any of these different industries. There's new restaurants that come up all the time. There's new actors, there's new singers, there's new movies. And somehow the best always rises to the top. There's room. There, it's never that it's a finite amount of space. If you have something that is truly special, there's no reason why it won't succeed, right? And then the other thing I will say is that if you think that something has been done, but you don't know who's done it,

• 19:23Speaker 01

  it means that it's not been done well enough because you'd know it. And then also think about this, if you are in a new category and there's other people now, now working on it, let's talk about clean makeup, for example. That category exploded because more brands started to come into it. So why are you scared of other people coming into it? It just means the category will get bigger and more people will be aware of it. So it's actually very exciting.

• 19:46Speaker 00

  It's really good. It educates.

• 19:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:48Speaker 00

  Yeah. I, I'm in that spot right now with my company. I'm like, okay, I'm seeing all these people start doing it. I'm like, that's good because people are not aware of exactly what it's doing. So and all of those fears are so normal and I love, I loved that part of Elizabeth's book.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 20:04Speaker 00

  Oh my gosh. It's, and there's also another, I think it's actually a Plato's theory. I've been trying to find exactly where it is, but it's the same kind of idea, but you'll love this. It's that there's all of these ideas kind of like up in a cloud.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:19Speaker 00

  I just literally picture the cloud.

• 20:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:21Speaker 00

  The cloud of ideas. Yeah, exactly. Um, and there are also ideas that are like for that time in history. And they're all coming down and waiting for someone to land. And if you don't grab it and like, you know, get obsessed with it, it will go to someone else because it's meant to come out in that timeframe.

• 20:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I love that.

• 20:41Speaker 00

  I love that too. I'm like, no, it was meant to come out in this timeframe. Grab it, even if it seems early, even if it seems late. But if you're getting hit with it so hard that you feel like this has to exist or why doesn't this exist yet, or why isn't this thing better? Like you're the person who can do it.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:58Speaker 00

  And I remember even getting the first ideas and going, okay, but maybe not me. Like, why me? And then I was like, well, why not me? And the questions just shift. And everything that you're saying is like, you haven't focused once on like the, you know, why should this be me? Because you didn't have prior history to launching a product at all.

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Never.

• 21:19Speaker 00

  And did you have a bunch of friends who were launching products?

• 21:21Speaker 01

  No one.

• 21:21Speaker 00

  Were you in that realm or that circle?

• 21:23Speaker 01

  It was just me. It was me and Nish. We were so, we didn't know anyone, you know? It was, we were like two random people deciding to go on this journey with no, no one to look at except for books, TED Talks, podcasts. That's, those were our friends at that point, you know? Those were our peers because we didn't have any in real life.

• 21:45Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  But you know, the, the thought process of you are, um, you know, the five people that you're most around, that doesn't have to mean literally.

• 21:53Speaker 00

  Right?

• 21:53Speaker 01

  It can mean through books and podcasts and TED Talks and whatever you can have access to. It will shift who you are.

• 22:01Speaker 00

  Oh, my God, that was me in the beginning. I was like, these people have no idea. They're like my best friends.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Truly. No, Lori, you are one of my best friends. I hope you know.

• 22:09Speaker 00

  I wish you would have told me in real life, I would have been your friend. That makes me so, nothing, nothing makes me happier than getting to sit here, knowing that I was talking to you.

• 22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you did. And you were talking to me at a point where I wasn't who I am today. So you helped, you were one of the people who helped shape me into who I am. So you should know that like, your work is so impactful and it touches a lot of people.

• 22:34Speaker 00

  There was a stretch in my early twenties when I was chipping away at credit card debt. And it honestly felt like it was never going to end. I'd make a payment, I would feel good for a day, and then I'd look at the balance and feel like I did nothing. And what changed everything was finally seeing a finish line. That's why I love Monarch's debt pay down simulator and visualizer. It shows your exact debt free date based on your real balance and payments. And you get to watch that timeline move. Every extra payment, the date gets closer. That kind of visible progress keeps you going. And my favorite part is playing out your options. You can run different payment scenarios side by side and instantly see

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• 23:57Speaker 00

  When I launched Glossy, my drinkable skincare brand, I was obsessed with the formula. The product was my baby, but the store part felt way more intimidating. And that's a big reason we built on Shopify in the beginning. Because you really don't have to be an e-commerce expert to get up and running. And that's a big deal in the beginning of a business. And here's the biggest lesson I learned about the holidays. You do not want to be building your store in the middle of the rush. You want to be set up, you want to be tested and ready before the traffic hits. So two things I love. First Shopify mobile app. I'm on planes, I'm on stages, I'm here recording with you and I can still check my inventory, help a customer, see payments right from my phone, which is so much fun. And that's the second they check out.

• 24:41Speaker 00

  So Shopify checkout with Shop Pay converts up to 36% higher than the competition. When you've worked that hard to get someone to your site, that last click matters. So if you've had a business idea sitting in your notes app for way too long, this is your sign. Launch before Black Friday, a time of year when more people are already shopping and ready to buy. If you're ready to launch your business before Black Friday, go to Shopify.com/happy to start your free trial. That's Shopify.com/happy. Go to Shopify.com/happy today to hear your first.

• 25:21Speaker 00

  You guys know I'm all about turning big ideas into something in reality. But here's the thing, not every idea deserves your time, energy, and especially your money. That's why I want to tell you about Life at the Speed of Play. Launch products people love. The new book from the legendary Silicon Valley entrepreneur, Mark Pincus. That's Mark with a K. It's an instant national bestseller and in just 170 fast paced pages, which I'm all about, Mark shares invaluable life skills and his battle tested, easy to follow framework for quickly testing ideas, getting real feedback and figuring out what is worth pursuing. He's one of Silicon Valley's most prolific idea generators. And this isn't some stuffy business book.

• 26:05Speaker 00

  It feels like sitting in this kitchen, getting advice straight from someone who's actually done something huge. Because how many of us have spent months overthinking an idea, wondering if it'll work, instead of actually testing it? That's exactly the cycle this book helps you break. And Mark has a special offer for our Earn Your Happy listeners. Go to GetMark'sBook.com/earn and get two copies for $32. That's just $16 each. And Mark is personally paying for your second copy because he knows entrepreneurship can be lonely. Keep wanting, give it to a friend who's ready to make something happen. Again, go to GetMark'sBook.com/earn. Well, now I'm equally getting to, I'm listening to your podcast all the time right now

• 26:50Speaker 00

  because I'm on the founder journey like four years behind you.

• 26:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:54Speaker 00

  This is such a, it's such a cool moment for me because I'm like, this is so cool to hear. Because I've been listening to all of your like, this is what I would do. This is what I wouldn't do. And so that, that brings me to the next question of, okay, we know we're going to do it, we're moving forward. How do we start? Like, does formulation come first? Are you thinking about business? Like, where do you guys all start? And what does that two years look like to launch?

• 27:17Speaker 01

  So for us, it was formulation first because we were like, we want the best product on the market.

• 27:21Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  And there was no one in the market really, but we were like, we just want to be the best. And so I thankfully, because I was so interested in health and wellness and I had my blog and all of that, I had friends who were in health and wellness, like nutritionists and all, like, you know, doctors and so on and so forth. And so one of my best friends is a nutritionist, Jordana I heart nutrition. People should follow her. She's incredible.

• 27:45Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 27:45Speaker 01

  So she's, she's been one of my best friends for years. And when I had this idea, I went to her and I was like, Jord, I have this idea. Do you by any chance know any doctors or formulators who I can talk to? And it was just like that where I started to just wherever, whoever I could speak to, who could introduce me to someone, that's kind of what I would do. And she was like, I actually know someone who you should speak to. And so she introduced me to one of her friends and she was the one who helped us formulate our first two products. And then from there, we worked with different doctors. Now our entire R and D team is in house where we have, you know, people from medical backgrounds who work at Array, who work on the formulations.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  So, I mean, it's been stages and stages, but our brand is built on a foundation of product. It's not built, the foundation isn't good marketing. The foundation is great product. That was always the ethos of the brand. And so the first thing we focused on was product. And then it was, it took us a year and a half probably to perfect the formulas. And so while that was happening in tandem, it was, okay, how do we find a manufacturer who can, you know, source the ingredients that we want and also take on a smaller quantity? Because we were bootstrapping the whole thing. You know, we didn't have investors, we didn't, we didn't have all this money to throw around. So it was very scrappy. And so we were speaking, I think I got on a hundred different manufacturing calls, like begging people to take a small quantity order from us.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  What were you working with in the beginning? Like, how much money did you start with?

• 29:14Speaker 01

  Fifty or sixty thousand altogether.

• 29:16Speaker 00

  Yeah, which, which you guys in this industry is not a lot like that. Most people wouldn't even look at that for a first run.

• 29:22Speaker 01

  No, it's like, honestly, it's, it's comical because I mean, now when we place our POs, it's like multi, multi, like large millions of dollars. And you know, that's when you start to be taken seriously. So thankfully, we were able to find a manufacturer just outside of Toronto and they were able to get the kind of ingredients that we wanted. We wanted everything organic, everything of the highest quality. We were very particular and they agreed to do a small run of a thousand units, which back then felt like, oh my God, this is so much.

• 29:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 29:54Speaker 01

  But you know, we, we got it there and then it was about figuring out what our branding would be, packaging. I mean, there's so many layers.

• 30:02Speaker 00

  So you were in Canada at the time doing this, launching a supplement?

• 30:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:05Speaker 00

  This was Canada?

• 30:06Speaker 01

  Yes, we didn't move until 2022.

• 30:10Speaker 00

  And they're way more strict with their supplements.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 30:12Speaker 00

  Which also makes for a really great product.

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Exactly, exactly. So our standards are obviously very high because we're a Canadian brand and Canadian regulations are really, really stringent. It is a regulated industry in Canada. And so we kind of had to follow that, which is why it also took us so long because once we developed the product, we had to submit that to, you know, Natural Health Canada or Health Canada, rather, to get our natural product number. And so it's a whole process that takes another six months. And if they have any edits, then you have to go make those edits and then resubmit. So it's, it's a whole process. I mean, I think, I mean, I can only speak to this industry because this is what I'm in, but I think supplements in general are complex to launch.

• 30:54Speaker 00

  Very, yes. Definitely had a long, long lead time of figuring it all out for sure. Okay. So 2018, you got the idea. So that means 2020, you were launching? Okay. How does that feel to be launching?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Well, we launched March 2020. So the world launched COVID, we launched Ray. I mean, look, when you're starting a new business, when you're launching a new business, you already, there's already so many unknowns. And then to add to the mix was this global pandemic. We didn't even know if our products were getting across the border to customers. I mean, I remember going to the post office with, you know, the, the orders that I was packing up for US customers and literally being like, please take this. And he's like, I don't know, we'll obviously post it out, but we don't even know if products are crossing the border. I was like, please, like, please.

• 31:44Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  And so thankfully they did make it to customers. And that's just kind of how we grew. What ended up happening was even though operationally it was very challenging because there were so many unknowns. I think it was a blessing that we launched during that time because I think there was also this increase of people becoming conscious of their health.

• 32:04Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 32:05Speaker 01

  And of people being so out of their routine essentially, that they were dealing with things like bloating and anxiety. And there were our two products, Bloat and Calm, to help them combat that. And so I think it was a blessing for us because our brand was able to really grow and also help people at a time where they really needed the help. So we were very lucky and you know, again, it's what you said about the product needing to be there at that time. I really, as you said it, I was like, I kind of got chills because I was like, it's true, like the, that the world at that time needed these products. And if we hadn't done it, someone else would have.

• 32:44Speaker 00

  Oh my God. It's giving me, it's giving me chills back. Like we're just, we're trading.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:48Speaker 00

  Okay. So tell me about where the company is at. Like, how does it start growing? What does the first year look like? So and what are you doing?

• 32:58Speaker 01

  Okay. So when we started, I mean, as I said, we had, we had no money, you know, it was.

• 33:04Speaker 00

  So you spent like most of it on your first run?

• 33:07Speaker 01

  We spent like, I think we had, so our entire motto is take the biggest risk possible that doesn't kick you out of the game. So essentially, God forbid, if there's a mistake, we always had a little bit of cash reserve so that we would never go out of business. So I think out of sixty thousand, I think we spent like forty. So we had twenty in reserve. God forbid if something went wrong and just to keep the business going essentially. And so when we launched, it was, I mean, it's a new business, so barely anyone's purchasing. There were some people, because I had my audience thankfully, and so they were purchasing and then they were telling their friends and it was kind of growing that way.

• 33:41Speaker 00

  Yeah. And you have a subscription model. Did you, back then you didn't, it was just reorder.

• 33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was, it was just reorders. But what happened in our second month of business, and I will forever be grateful to her, is there's an influencer, Melissa Wood Tupperberg.

• 33:54Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 33:55Speaker 01

  And she ended up talking about us on a live and I didn't know what was happening. Essentially, we were sitting, I, I remember the moment so clearly because Nish and I were just sitting there in bed and our Shopify starts to go off and we were like, what's, what's happening? Like, where are all these sales coming from? And one of my followers sent me a screenshot of Melissa talking about us on a live. And then a few weeks later, she talked about us on stories and that's kind of how the brand started to grow. So essentially in our first month of business, we did eight thousand dollars. In our second month, we did thirty and the next month we did a hundred.

• 34:30Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  And within our, in under a year of launching the business, we did our first million. And so that's kind of when we were on a roll and we just kind of kept going and building on the momentum and, you know, growing the business.

• 34:44Speaker 00

  Wow. So it took off through word of mouth from somebody who was very influential. And did she ever tell you how she found the brand or was it just?

• 34:52Speaker 01

  I gifted.

• 34:53Speaker 00

  You gifted?

• 34:54Speaker 01

  Yes. I, I was gifting so heavily, Lori, and I think that that's something that I advise to all brands, which by the way, is scary. When you have, you know, when you're starting out, I feel like every dollar counts, you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, like I'm giving all of this away for free. What if they never post? And that's the thing, you just, you can't even put pressure on people. So I was gifting it to micro influencers, I was gifting it to doctors, I was gifting it to naturopathic doctors, nutritionists, fitness instructors, I was gifting it to anyone and everyone with the premise being, look, I just think this product is going to make your life better. There is no pressure to post, nothing, just try it.

• 35:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 01

  And that's kind of what happened. Like Melissa tried it, ended up posting about it. And then the product just kind of blew up. And then obviously, I, I mean, I was so grateful to her, I still am. I mean, I don't think our business would have had that start if it hadn't been for her. So I always credit her. And after that, I was like, please, like, let's do a partnership. This is like, I would love to pay you, you know? Because you got me started. And so that's kind of how the business started, but it was also so much word of mouth. Like our customers were posting us constantly. We also always treated our customers like influencers. And I, I always say this to new brands, that you can't just be thinking about your influencer strategy. Your customers are also influencers. How are you going to treat them in the same way?

• 36:15Speaker 01

  And so, you know, I was gifting to customers, you know, I would be like, does your best friend want to try it? You like the product? Great. Like, let me send one for you and one for your best friend. Or if it was someone's birthday, I mean, when you're starting out, the great thing is that you have the ability to do the things that you can't do when you've scaled. Because you are in Shopify, you are talking to every customer. And so we took full advantage of that. We wanted to do as much for the customer and make them feel so special. And so they kept talking about us and it kept growing organically as well. So.

• 36:45Speaker 00

  Yeah. I love that. I love the passion you have around that of just like getting, getting excited about your brand and gifting and doing all those things. So, and people can do that right now in the first year. Like even if you set a gifting, you're, you're giving me inspo. I'm like, okay, we'll just set a gifting budget.

• 37:00Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 37:01Speaker 00

  I was like, okay, let's give this out. And what did that look like trying to get people to gift it to? It was probably so much follow up even to.

• 37:08Speaker 01

  It was so much follow up. I mean, it was, I was spending all my time on it, Lori. Like I'm not gonna, I, I, you know, people talk about work, life balance. I had, there was no balance, none whatsoever. And I just think that that's the reality of your first few years of a business. I mean, I was working maniacal hours. I mean, I'm talking eight AM to three AM some days and I was barely sleeping. And I know this is the non glamorous part of starting a business.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  It's the truth though.

• 37:32Speaker 01

  It's the truth.

• 37:33Speaker 00

  People literally need, if, if they're looking at you right now going, I want that, they have to know this part.

• 37:37Speaker 01

  Exactly. And right now, yeah, I'm sleeping seven, eight hours a night and you know, I, I have time to do all of these other things. But at the beginning, no, I was doing everything. And so when it came to gifting, my goal was I need to gift this to first, I think it was fifty people a month. And so, you know, reaching out to five hundred because the hit rate is so low.

• 37:57Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 37:57Speaker 01

  And, you know, kind of building from there, but it was very much manual. I had this Excel sheet with all of my, my outreaches, who I was following up to, had it been shipped out. And back then it was, I was doing the shipping. It wasn't some fancy warehouse. It was me. I was the warehouse. So, you know, you kind of do every function.

• 38:17Speaker 00

  You should make like print T-shirts for all startup founders that like every day they're doing something different, like today I'm the warehouse.

• 38:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:23Speaker 00

  Today I'm the gifter.

• 38:25Speaker 01

  Today, today I am the janitor. Like we do everything.

• 38:29Speaker 00

  Yeah, exactly. So what, okay. So first year, it pops off. That's a really incredible first year.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:36Speaker 00

  But you guys are still, is it just you two? Have we hired anyone? Have we delegated? What are we doing in like end of year one?

• 38:42Speaker 01

  So the first hire that we made in year one was someone to help with packaging. And so because that was taking up way too much time and Nish and I were like, there's no way we can focus on even getting this thing out if we are also doing.

• 38:56Speaker 00

  Shipping or packaging?

• 38:57Speaker 01

  Packaging the orders and then waiting for the, the postman to pick it up from my condo. So that's kind of how it was. That was our first hire. And then, and the packaging people, they were not full time. They were like, kind of like our friends who had been laid off, we were hiring. Them to help us package. So

• 39:15Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:15Speaker 01

  We were actually meeting the gap that they

• 39:17Speaker 00

  That's awesome.

• 39:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I'm so happy that, I mean, you know, a lot of them have gone on, obviously to do other things. But that was also something that was so fulfilling that we were able to help people within our networks, kind of who had been laid off from their jobs, unfortunately. So that was, you know, the first thing that we did was hire people to help us package. Then we got this email from this girl who was pre-med at Brown. And she reached out being like, I love the brand. I just want to come on as an intern. And I was like, sure, we'll bring you on as an intern. She did. And she was our first official hire.

• 39:50Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  She's still with the company today.

• 39:51Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  She's like my family.

• 39:53Speaker 00

  Wow. What does she do in the company?

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Now she's head of product.

• 39:56Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  So I mean, she's med med background and so she was perfect for it. And I mean, but she's done every function in the business with Nish and I, I mean, she ping ponged around, kind of working with me, working with Nish. And then she started out as a great generalist, learning everything and being such a keen learner. And then she always her, her ultimate thing was that she wanted to get into product and the nitty gritty of the science there.

• 40:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  And now she's, she's been the lead of that for the last two and a half, three years, I want to say.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Okay. So we have someone helping with sending out now.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:26Speaker 00

  We have, um,

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Just a general.

• 40:28Speaker 00

  Came on, she just,

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, she was just a general.

• 40:30Speaker 00

  Did everything at first.

• 40:30Speaker 01

  Everything, everything. It was getting on calls with manufacturers, kind of working on different PO. So that was our first hire. And then after that, we brought someone on for operations specifically. So helping, making sure that we weren't going out of stock, making sure that, you know, things were being shipped out at the right time, kind of dealing with the manufacturers, like more, I guess, like just in a more detailed fashion.

• 40:55Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  Because Nish was totally over his head because, I mean, handling operations itself is, it's crazy. And so that was the second hire that we made and that was one of Nish's friends as well. She was with the company for a very long time. She's just moved on, but she's still a very dear friend of ours. Yeah.

• 41:12Speaker 00

  Okay, awesome. So year two, do sales slow at all for you guys? Or does, is it just like taking off like a rocket ship? Or are you like, what, what are you doing for marketing in order to keep the girls going?

• 41:24Speaker 01

  So year two, it's still growing, but first year to go from zero to a million

• 41:29Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  is outrageous.

• 41:31Speaker 00

  Right. So then what were your expect, expectations for year two? Or, or were you able to kind of like dial that in?

• 41:36Speaker 01

  Year two, I think what we were expecting was around five, I want to say.

• 41:42Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  But we had won it. I think we came in just shy of that, which to us, we were very, I mean, we're very goal oriented people.

• 41:50Speaker 00

  I was gonna say, just for everyone listening to go from one to five is also insane. Yeah.

• 41:55Speaker 01

  It is, it is insane. But you know, we were always like, we want to be best of the best, best in class. That was always the standard that we set for ourselves. So we came in just shy of that, which kind of put us not in the, you know, the, the top, top percentage of startups.

• 42:09Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  So we were obviously a little bit disappointed, but you know, we were also just learning on the job. So second year, it was all of the things that we were doing from the organic standpoint. And we just added in performance marketing, like Facebook ads, which

• 42:20Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:21Speaker 01

  we had no idea what we were doing. No idea.

• 42:23Speaker 00

  So who did it for you? You guys started doing it yourself?

• 42:28Speaker 01

  Nish.

• 42:28Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  And then we brought on an agency and I mean, I think what you learn while you're going through this is, it's kind of like you make mistakes. And so the first agency we hired, they were fine for like the first couple of months and then they weren't, but we kept them on for too long.

• 42:45Speaker 00

  Story of my life. Yep. Did that twice.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it sucks.

• 42:48Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 42:49Speaker 01

  It sucks, but it is what it is. Um, so there was that, our emails, that was like a big source of revenue. And then we had a handful of influencer partnerships and those were always done with people who had organically talked about us, who loved the brand and who we knew, like their audience kind of resonated with it as well. And so that's kind of what we did year two. And then year three, it was hammering down more on that. It was just doing more of what we knew. And then of course, you know, you, you add in new channels as the business grows, right? So Amazon, I think we brought in year three and a half. And that's like a whole different beast in and of itself. And then we're quick to adopt new things. So when TikTok shop launched, we were quick to get on it. I mean, we,

• 43:32Speaker 01

  you have to experiment when something is new, you just have to learn. And that's been our whole thing that we aren't afraid to try things, fail, like, you know, recuperate really quickly, learn, iterate, et cetera, et cetera. So I feel like for the first few years, it was just doing more, more, more. And then it was like bringing on new things slowly.

• 43:52Speaker 00

  Okay. So I want to go back to, you said email was a really big revenue stream for you guys. Tell me about how you built your email list.

• 44:00Speaker 01

  So, I mean, really easy to begin with is just, you know, you have the pop up on your site that gives people X percent off.

• 44:07Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  In exchange for their email. And then you have really interesting campaigns set up, really good flows set up. So campaigns are essentially just big marketing things, whether it's more educational, more cheeky, whatever it is for people to get familiar with the brand. Flows are essentially, you put people in flows, either when they join an email list. So you can start to kind of educate them on a product or when they buy a product, then we have flows to kind of, continue to educate them on what they should expect in a certain period of time. So we have very complex flows and campaign, kind of, we have like, our, our email strategy is, I would say something I'm very proud of. Because it's kind of down to science and we're very, very particular.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  So email was always really big. We were also always very clear about our brand tone of voice. And so I think with emails, that's something that really helps. So we were getting emails both from just the pop up that we had on the site. And then we would do like giveaways and stuff for emails, like, you know, enter in your thing and you get like however much product or whatever we did for giveaways. So things like that, um.

• 45:11Speaker 00

  And who was doing the emails at the time? Was that like you and Nish wanting to do that? Or did you hire people, um, a team who did emails really well?

• 45:18Speaker 01

  Uh, it was Nish and I to begin with. We did everything, Lori. And then after that, we brought on an agency to kind of help us schedule things.

• 45:28Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  I did the copywriting all of every single email.

• 45:32Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 45:33Speaker 01

  For the first three and a half years of the business.

• 45:36Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  So.

• 45:37Speaker 00

  See, that's so powerful. I think when a founder stays in like either email or social or something for a while.

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 00

  Because I think that helps develop the voice.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And even now, I mean, our lead creative strategist and copywriter is incredibly talented. I mean, I feel like she understands everything perfectly, but still I, I look at every email. I've only now, I've only, and I mean, only just now as an end of February 2025, given her full autonomy and I don't look over every single email that goes out, except for new launches. That's when I want to look over every single thing because I just want to make sure that it sounds really good. It's our voice, that the messaging is like absolutely right and tight. But yeah, I mean, I, Nish and I have both been very much in the weeds for everything and you know, still are.

• 46:26Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. And what, what year is this right now for you guys? Year five. Okay. So I think you just concluded your, like you were at three and a half.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 46:33Speaker 00

  So have you ever brought money into the company?

• 46:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So we raised a very small round, year two of the business.

• 46:41Speaker 00

  What was a small round for year two?

• 46:44Speaker 01

  Two million.

• 46:45Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 46:46Speaker 01

  Two, two and a half, I want to say altogether. Um, and we've just done that and a small round to follow after that.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  And that went to marketing.

• 46:54Speaker 01

  That went towards, it was, so we were growing profitably. We just needed the money to grow faster. So doing things like buying more inventory, of course, like having more money for marketing. But that's it. Nish and I own the bulk majority of our business, like a significant bulk majority. And we were really, we knew that that's what we wanted from the start. And I think actually, if I had known what I know today, I don't think we would have ever needed to raise money. It's just that, but I have no regrets. We have incredible investors, just incredible. They're so supportive, so kind, so helpful. But I just think that we could have done it without the money. It's just that when you're a new founder

• 47:34Speaker 01

  and you don't have the kind of cash flow background, cash flow management background, rather. Of course, you aren't as efficient as you would be now. So if I were to start a business today, Nish and I would not take on any capital ever, I don't think.

• 47:51Speaker 00

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• 51:54Speaker 01

  Because we don't need to, we're good at managing cash flow now. So we took on money year two of the business. That was a crazy process. I mean, you know, fundraising, as you know, is not easy.

• 52:06Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 52:07Speaker 01

  It's not for the weak.

• 52:09Speaker 00

  No, it's not.

• 52:09Speaker 01

  I mean, it's just...

• 52:10Speaker 00

  At all.

• 52:11Speaker 01

  At all.

• 52:12Speaker 00

  At all. I don't recommend it unless you really...

• 52:14Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 52:15Speaker 00

  Need to do it or want to grow faster for some reason.

• 52:19Speaker 01

  Exactly. And so that was the decision that we made. Again, no regrets. It was the right decision. But anyone who's fundraising, it's not this glamorous process. And I think everyone is used to seeing these big headlines. And I mean, you know, I think it's necessary for a lot of businesses, of course. But I think it does take you out of operating the business, is what I will say.

• 52:41Speaker 00

  It's a full-time job, and it's heavy. The money that you take on, you, trust me, you carry it on your back.

• 52:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:48Speaker 00

  The whole journey. And yet you're so grateful. And I'm so like, are you glad that you did it, looking like just to have that under your belt to understand it?

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think it definitely educated me. Look, I think it's the journey of being a founder, right? And I think we are very kind of well-rounded founders because we've seen everything. We operate our business very profitably, so we've kind of gone through that journey. We've gone through the journey of choosing to take on external capital in order to move a little bit faster. I think what our investors did so well is they prepared us and made us grow up. So just having the backend systems well set up, kind of telling us like what the infrastructure should look like. So having investors, it sped up our knowledge, if that makes sense.

• 53:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, it forces you into doing things for your company that you wouldn't have normally done or paid attention to.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 53:39Speaker 00

  And it, yeah, it really trains you on things that you could have just like let by the wayside and that you really do need to know.

• 53:46Speaker 01

  Totally. And I think also, I keep saying, we were very lucky with our investors. I think the one thing that Nish and I knew from the start was that we didn't want to take on money from people we didn't actually like and who didn't...

• 53:59Speaker 00

  That's huge.

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Huge. So we never settled. We never just took a check because someone was giving us a check. We were really particular. And I think that that is something that really paid off. Our cap table is tiny, absolutely tiny, and so buttoned up and zipped up because we were so particular about who we brought on as partners.

• 54:17Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 54:18Speaker 01

  The one other person on our board outside of Nish and I is a woman. That was really important to us. And so she really understood the vision and she's our lead investor. So I feel like we were, we took money on, but we were really intentional about who we took it from, which is something that I would tell other founders if they are going in to raise money. You are marrying someone, okay? Like, let's not get it twisted. Make sure you like them. Make sure you do your due diligence. It's not a one-sided transaction. It's both. They gotta like you, you gotta like them.

• 54:46Speaker 00

  Yeah, I remember turning down an investor, and I did it in a way that they didn't really know they were getting turned down. But, but it was like, oh, this is, this one is not sitting right in my gut. This is going to be my worst actual nightmare.

• 54:58Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 54:59Speaker 00

  It was the best thing I ever did because I can't imagine like what this person would be like when we, you know, because we hit some bumps and you need to think about that.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 55:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, everyone's going to be happy when you're riding high. But what happens if your company hits some bumps? I've been hearing like the craziest stories about like companies that are so high, then going low, and them just having this huge awareness of like, holy shit. Like, who's really got your back? And I love that you've built so much of even what you've said is like you have, you know, these people who feel more like family or that you've really built with or that you really enjoy, that you actually like. Because I do think that business is, if you're built like, from what I now really know about you, like this is your life, like you're a builder, you're a creator. And so you have to integrate like your actual life and what you like doing and who you like.

• 55:45Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 55:45Speaker 00

  And who you enjoy, because it will be what you're doing and thinking about every single day.

• 55:50Speaker 01

  Every single day. And so neither Nish nor I want to spend our time doing something we don't like. And I think you know very quickly, who is it that lights you up? Who do you want to spend time with? Who makes your life easy? Who's there through the good and the bad? And again, like with our investors, again, to give them credit, they have been incredible. Like when Nish and I are the hardest on ourselves, when we have such high expectations and we don't meet them, they've always been the ones to be like, guys, it's okay.

• 56:20Speaker 00

  That's huge.

• 56:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, you'll be, you'll be fine. Like, we're not worried. Don't be worried, you know? And so I think having people who are part of your business, who give you that sort of support and kindness and levity in like really tough situations is also so great. So, you know, be really picky about who you're bringing on to your business. And I mean, both from an investor and a team perspective as well. I have the same philosophy when it comes to our team. Like, we're very close to our team. These are people who would have our backs. We have to be friendly with them, you know? I mean, some of our team is our best friends.

• 56:55Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  You know, and it's the only way that you can continue to build this year over year in the long run, you know?

• 57:01Speaker 00

  I totally agree with that. Okay, so here you are, we're year five.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:07Speaker 00

  We're thriving. Like, it's so much fun to see you out in the world. How many products do you have right now?

• 57:12Speaker 01

  Eight, I believe.

• 57:13Speaker 00

  What did you start with?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Bloat and calm.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  The two, the two, Bloat and Calm. When did more products start coming in? Was that year two or three?

• 57:19Speaker 01

  Three.

• 57:19Speaker 00

  Year three.

• 57:20Speaker 01

  So we didn't release anything new in year two. Year three, we released Sleep, I believe. And then since then, we've been adding more and more. So this year, we have altogether, we have two more coming and we've already launched one. Last year, we launched four, and I think the year before it was just the one, so...

• 57:42Speaker 00

  And the reasoning behind launching four, what was that?

• 57:44Speaker 01

  We just had products ready to go, essentially. And product development takes a long time.

• 57:51Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally.

• 57:51Speaker 01

  A long, long, long time. And sometimes two things are being developed around the same time, and so they're both ready to go. For example, our second year of business, we launched Zero because it took so long for us to perfect the product.

• 58:03Speaker 00

  Totally.

• 58:04Speaker 01

  And so it just depends on kind of where we're at in our product dev journey. And so we did four because four were ready. This year, three, I think four was just a lot for us, our team size. We were really overwhelmed, so we decided to kind of pare it back to three and be really, I mean, we go all out for our launches. Like, I mean, you know, we're really intentional about what we launch, and so we want to give it due attention. And so doing four was just, I mean, we were tired.

• 58:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, you're doing something, you're planning something every day, like doing something at the same time.

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Totally. So we decided to pare it back to three.

• 58:39Speaker 00

  Okay, you, I feel like you've been on the road a lot right now. Have you been all over?

• 58:43Speaker 01

  I mean, it's funny, it feels, so in 2023, we were away every two weeks. And by the end of 2023, I was like, I am so done with this. No more. I'm just going to say no to way more. And so that's what I did last year. It was the same thing. But still, yeah, we are traveling a lot. It's definitely, you know, at least once every five to six weeks, which, I mean, that's a lot. It's less than four.

• 59:09Speaker 00

  Yeah, because it takes you out.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 00

  Takes you out a little bit of your rhythm and what you're doing.

• 59:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. And now we're, of course, like way more picky about what we are saying yes to and no to. And sometimes if it's just one of us who can get the job done, then the other one stays home, as an example. Nish is in Austin right now for work. He went for three days. I'm at home. Last year, I went to Paris for three days and Nish stayed home. So we pick and choose.

• 59:33Speaker 00

  Yeah, that's the best part about being a team. My husband and I do some work together and I'm just, we're like divide and conquer, and we high five, and he travels. And yeah, he's traveling right now for, for work.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:43Speaker 00

  And I'm back, well, I'm sort of back here. I'm in Newport Beach, but I'm up here for the night.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's kind of, it's kind of...

• 59:48Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm kind of back here. Okay, so what would you go back and do differently? Like, what's something that's blaringly clear that you would do differently?

• 59:58Speaker 01

  I would definitely learn cash flow management much sooner than we did. Again, I think we could have been way more efficient. That's number one. Number two is I think what we've started to do with marketing and we started to do this year three of the business was essentially, it wasn't just let me throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at something and not care about the return. Like we were, we were always tracking. Like if we're doing a partnership, if we are doing a campaign, like what's the percentage that we're getting increase or whatever it is. So I would start tracking those metrics sooner than we started. So we started to track from a brand perspective in year three. I think I would have started to do that way earlier.

• 1:00:39Speaker 00

  How were you able to track though if it's first time things that you're doing? You know, like if they're first time partnerships and?

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  So honestly, like seeing what we're, I mean, it's something really simple. Like give people codes and start to see what the, what like the kind of impact is, you know? At the beginning, we weren't even doing codes.

• 1:00:56Speaker 00

  Oh, got it. Okay.

• 1:00:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I think that would give us a lot more color into what's going on. So I think now we've made it very like trackable and it's honestly like, of course, like I, I, and I come from a brand background and I know that certain things are just brand value and it's not that we don't do that. It's just that overall, we need to make sure that as we spend more on marketing, we're getting the business to grow bigger and that the kind of, the numbers all make sense and we're still coming out very profitable. I would also focus on profitability a lot sooner than we did. So we turned the business profitable and well, we were profitable for the first year and a half and we raised money like year two. We decided not to be profitable when we switched it after a year. I think we, we would have focused on profitability the whole way through if I were doing it all

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  over again, because I think that that's incredibly important.

• 1:01:46Speaker 00

  Okay. So for a couple of years, how long was it that you weren't profitable?

• 1:01:49Speaker 01

  A year and a half.

• 1:01:50Speaker 00

  A year and a half after that. Okay.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  I would change that. There's no reason to not be profitable.

• 1:01:54Speaker 00

  How would you have changed it?

• 1:01:57Speaker 01

  I would spend, it's just a matter of what you're spending versus what you're getting back. And I would just pare down spend and kind of switch over into profitability sooner. I mean, look, I think a lot has changed in the landscape, right? Because when we raised money, it was a different time. And it's funny because it was only three years ago, but it was a different time.

• 1:02:16Speaker 00

  It was totally different.

• 1:02:17Speaker 01

  So back then profitability was not seen as an important metric.

• 1:02:22Speaker 00

  Growth at all costs.

• 1:02:23Speaker 01

  Exactly. Exactly. So that has shifted. So I can't say that I would change things that much because I feel like we were in the times. It's just that times have changed and we've adapted thankfully very quickly. And being profitable gives you a lot of power. And so I think what I would encourage people to do if they're starting a business right now is never let that slip because you hold power when you have money. So, you know, like do not, do not let that slip. Yeah. I would just focus on profitability like quickly, as quickly as you possibly can from the start if possible. And yeah, those are probably the things that I would, you know, do differently.

• 1:03:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. What do you think for the future of marketing brands, marketing your company? Where do you think that's going? Like, are you going to really look at, are you going, okay, we need to double down on TikTok shop? We need to, what are you, what are you thinking? Partnerships, all the things?

• 1:03:14Speaker 01

  I mean, for sure TikTok shop. I really do think it's the future. I think they're competing with Amazon. So you better get on board. And I think adapting your strategy to make it fit TikTok shop while still staying true to your brand. So it's the juggling act and kind of figuring out your footing. So that's number one. I think consumers will continue to be a bigger and bigger part of people's marketing strat, or they should be a bigger and bigger part of their marketing strategy. I don't think that nowadays you can get away with spending millions on just influencer and just ignoring your consumers. So I think brands just need to continue to pay attention to the consumer and dedicating a portion of their marketing dollars. I think it should be a split, to be honest.

• 1:03:57Speaker 00

  Giving back or like gifting them, surprising them, like offering them things?

• 1:04:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Gifting, surprising, having community events, having PR for community, whatever way you can involve your community. So for us, anytime we launch something, we always have an initiative for influencers and then we have an initiative for consumers. That's just how it goes. We will never do one or the other. It's always both. And last year, we actually got into the cadence of doing community events every six weeks, which was, it's a lot. It's a lot to take on. Thankfully, we do have our head of events who's incredible and like we have a good, robust team there. But having some sort of a cadence, whether it's like every quarter, I was actually talking to one of my friends, she's the founder of Say, and I think they've done a fantastic job with community. And she was saying that

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  the best way to build community is put yourself in the consumer's shoes. And so I have to quote her because I think it's really smart advice. So what she was saying was that, oh, you know, we were internally thinking, oh, I wish there was a run club. And they were like, well, why don't we do that? And so I think that is a really good idea of thinking through, okay, like what can you do for your community? So just, okay, if you want to do something, then do it, but include your community.

• 1:05:08Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  You know, so it's things like that. And it doesn't have to be splashy or expensive. I mean, we've done walks with our community. It's just ways for you to interact with them, you know, surprise and delight them. Like we'll do walks, give them products afterwards or, you know, have coffee with them and give them products afterwards. I mean, we've had so many, thankfully, like our house is set up. So we have events within our house in our backyard. A lot of our launches that we've done with our community, it's like we invite them over. So when we launched magnesium last year, I did one dinner for a bunch of like founders, friends, like friends of the brands, kind of like the influencer tastemaker route. And then that same week, we had a movie night where we had like a projector

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  in our backyard and it was like sleepover themed and we had our community come.

• 1:05:55Speaker 00

  And you just like, is that, you sent that out to your email list and just had like community, but strangers?

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's all strangers. So it's like, we picked our like top tier customers essentially. We have a loyalty program as well. So first dibs for an event always goes to our top tier customers.

• 1:06:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. And are they from LA or do they, do people fly in for it?

• 1:06:15Speaker 01

  Well, we've had in the past, actually people fly in or just be here around the same time. But I mean, we try to do events in different cities as well. Like two years ago, we did it in Toronto and we did like at othership, which is a place where you do contrast therapy. So sauna and cold plunge and we did a community event there. So wherever Nish and I go, if we have time, we always try to integrate a community event in. Yeah.

• 1:06:38Speaker 00

  Okay. I love that. And you've been doing that? I'm just like thinking of smaller brands. Like if you throw a community event and you're like, nobody lives here. Who's my customer?

• 1:06:46Speaker 01

  Fair, fair. I mean, I, I mean, you have to be, look at your email list, see where your customers are. And if you have even like three or four, again, it doesn't have to be big or fancy.

• 1:06:56Speaker 00

  Could be a meetup.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  Could be a meetup.

• 1:06:58Speaker 00

  Guys, then you change the name. It's a little tiny meetup and you meet for coffee.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  Honestly, yeah, we've done, we've done in the past, a farmer's market walk where five people showed up because our brand was much smaller and that's okay. Because it's just a way, I mean, how lucky are you? You get to speak to the people who buy your product. You're getting real time feedback. I'd take advantage of the three people that show up. You know, it's just like you're one on one time with them. It's like, there's no bigger blessing.

• 1:07:22Speaker 00

  I love that. Oh my gosh. This has been such a like wealth of knowledge. I'm so grateful for you. I need like two more hours to really satisfy my questions, maybe more. But what do you want to leave everyone, one with?

• 1:07:38Speaker 01

  I think I would like to encourage people to realize that people who are successful, they're not born with an innate specialness to them. I think if you set your mind to something, you can do it. And it's not that it's for a special segment of people. I think anyone has the power, really. Anyone has the power to do whatever they put their mind to. And so if you have an idea, like we discussed, and it's kind of poking at you, go explore it. You know, you don't have to put your life savings into it. See how you can start it in like the smallest scale possible and just do it because life's too short to kind of wonder what could have been.

• 1:08:15Speaker 00

  Hmm. So good. Well, I'm so fucking inspired. Like I just feel like I could run through a wall. Truly, this is going to be the topic of our conversation tonight. So it's going to be so great. Where can we find you, follow you, Array, all the things? I will also link that up at the show notes below, you guys, but.

• 1:08:33Speaker 01

  So Array is array.com and Array on all social media platforms. You can find me at Siff Haider on all social media platforms and my podcast is the Dream Bigger Podcast.

• 1:08:43Speaker 00

  Amazing. Well, I'm so grateful for you. Thank you for coming on today. This has been a full circle moment for me. And you guys, make sure you go follow her and also go click the link to go shop Array because the brand is absolutely stunning and it's amazing. I've had it. It's incredible. And until next time, everyone, earn your happy. Bye bye.