Get Seen, Get Known & Turn Your Content Into Sales with Angela Simson

Are you posting consistently but still struggling to attract the right people into your business? In this episode, I’m joined by Angela Simson to break down how to create content that gets you seen, builds trust, and turns attention into actual leads. We dive into why speaking to your dream client matters more than speaking to your current clients, how to create content that makes people feel seen, why you need to become known for one thing, and how to use AI to turn one idea into dozens of content pieces. Angela also shares how she tests content, identifies what drives sales, and builds a business around dream clients instead of vanity metrics. Get ready to create content that gets you seen by the people you actually want to work with. Check out our Sponsors: Shopify - Try the ecommerce platform I trust for Glōci. Sign up for your $1/month trial period at http://Shopify.com/happy. Monarch Money - Get your first year of Monarch Core for half off at http://Monarch.com with code EYH. Northwest Registered Agent - Visit http://northwestregisteredagent.com/EarnFree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Indeed - Indeed is giving Earn Your Happy listeners a $75 SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to help get your job the premium status it deserves. Just go to http://Indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on Earn Your Happy. Momentous - If you want to try Momentous Signature Spec Creatine, head to http://livemomentous.com and use code EARN for up to 35% off your entire first order. SmileSet - Listeners of our show get an additional 35% discount when they go to http://SMILESET.com/earn. Faire - Sign up today and get 50% off your first wholesale order, up to $100 at https://faire.com/happy50. Terms may apply. Life at the Speed of Play - Go to http://getmarksbook.com/earn to get two copies for the price of one—one for you and one for a friend. HIGHLIGHTS 00:00 What’s one thing that keeps great businesses from getting seen? 02:15 How to speak to what your dream client actually wants. 06:00 What makes a personal brand worth following? 08:15 How to create content people actually want to follow and learn from. 11:00 Tips to make your content visually engaging and easy to consume. 14:15 Why you should be obsessed with your own content before you post it. 15:45 The content system that helps you never run out of ideas. 17:15 How to build a sales rhythm around your launches. 21:45 The content strategy that keeps your message top of mind. 23:00 How to turn one idea into dozens of content pieces with AI. 25:30 Why becoming known for one thing can transform your business. 29:00 How to create the “mirror moments” that make your dream client feel seen. 33:15 The content trifecta that builds trust and gets people to take action. 35:00 How posting more can help you discover what your dream client responds to. 40:00 How to train AI to understand your voice and your dream client. 43:15 Why growing your audience means nothing if you aren't growing with dream clients. 44:30 The identity shift that can make you more compelling online. 47:30 Knowing when bigger growth is actually worth the cost. RESOURCES Get Angela’s One Idea 20 Ways content resource HERE! Get on the waitlist for Mentor Collective Mastermind HERE! Try glōci for 40% off your first order with code HAPPY at checkout - head to getgloci.com FOLLOW Follow me: @loriharder Follow glōci: @getgloci Follow Angela: @gratitude_project

• 0:01Speaker 00

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• 1:27Speaker 00

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• 2:10Speaker 00

  They're giving Earn Your Happy a $75 sponsored job credit. Go to indeed.com/podcast right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Life at the Speed of Play. Mark is offering our listeners two books for the price of one. Go to getmarksbook.com/earn. Sequencing. Sequencing.com is offering your listeners up to 10% off your full genome test plus free shipping. Go to sequencing.com and use promo code EARN for 10% off. So many women are struggling with being seen, creating content, putting themselves out there, getting clear on what they're doing.

• 2:52Speaker 01

  The main thing that I see is people speaking to their current clients instead of speaking to the people that they want to hire them. Like if I said to someone, hey, I'm going to come in and I'm going to look at the backend systems. I'm going to look at your messaging. I'm going to get you really clear and defined on your niche. They're going to be like, okay, boring. Whereas if I say to them, hey, do you want to get to 50,000 followers in the next year? They're like, yes, give me the people.

• 3:21Speaker 00

  And welcome to the Earn Your Happy Podcast.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Thank you for having me. I feel so honored. Like I feel like I've been listening to you for years. So this is a full on pinch me moment.

• 3:30Speaker 00

  Oh my God. You know what's so crazy? I literally had no clue. Number one. Number two, I don't really know how I found you, probably because you just have amazing content. But every time, it was like it started feeding me your content and all of a sudden I was like, I just, I like everything that comes across my feed. And I found myself starting to save it like for inspiration. So one day I was like, I should probably just talk to her in person and ask her some questions about this. Because you know, I think we can look at someone like you and go, maybe she was born that way. Maybe this is just something she's really naturally great at. But according to every conversation I have ever had on this podcast, I find that there is a lot behind it and it's a strategy and it's something that you really had to learn how to do.

• 4:14Speaker 00

  So I'm excited to dive into that with you today.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  Thank you. I often say that probably 50% of people follow me because they just want to use the hooks that I create. I'm like, people are just following me to copy me. It's fine. Welcome. Thank you.

• 4:27Speaker 00

  I mean, it's kind of the goal, you know, if they're like, wow, she's doing something right. Great. That's, that's what we want to do. So I think we both probably follow so many of the same people. And then we also know that there's a world of really incredible talented women out there that we get to see in our ecosystem, in our masterminds, in our programs that we're like, you are amazing. Like you are the best kept secret that has to get out there. Why do you think so many women are struggling with being seen, creating content, putting themselves out there, getting clear on what they're doing when they could be like absolutely clear on some of the things in their business, but when it goes to creating content, they just get totally stuck?

• 5:12Speaker 01

  Right. And this is why I started doing what I was doing. I was seeing so many women who were just so, so good. And I'm like, you know, you would hear them in coaching conversations or you would talk to them and you'd say, how are you not fully booked? How do you not have people just lined up to work with you? And this is when I really started to get passionate about what I do because I was like, you can be a literal expert at something and be struggling to pay your bills. And that's, that's not okay. And I think the main thing that I've discovered over years of this, and none of this has come naturally to me. I have had to learn a lot when it comes to what works online, what gets you booked, what gets you seen. But the main thing that I see is people speaking to their current clients instead of speaking to the people that they want to hire them.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  And so they're using language that they hear in their sessions and on their calls instead of using the language that someone who's about to hire them needs to use. And so I used to do this. I used to be so bad at this. I would, I started off in health coaching like 14 years ago. And I would go online and I would talk about, you know, you're feeling this and you're feeling that. And the problem is, I mean, I don't know about you, but when I pick up my phone, I don't want to feel my feelings. I pick up my phone to distract myself or like, if, if I want to be, you know, a bit procrastinaty, for lack of a better word, like I'm like, I don't want to do our things. I'm going to procrastinate.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Like I'm not on there to feel my feelings. And I used to speak so much into feelings words to try and attract clients. And I think people do that these days. They think about the person that they're working with instead of the person who needs them, you know? And I think we've all heard that thing before of like, you kind of sell people what they need, but you packages as what they think they want, right? And it's not always the same thing. And it's not always exactly what people, like if I said to someone, hey, I'm going to come in and I'm going to look at the backend systems. I'm going to look at your messaging. I'm going to get you really clear and defined on your niche. They're going to be like, okay, boring. Whereas if I say to them, hey, do you want to get to 50,000 followers in the next year?

• 7:18Speaker 01

  They're like, yes, give me the people, right? And so I think it's actually working out what is the problem that they think they have versus what is the problem that you know they have and speaking more to that. And that's the thing I see most of all, right?

• 7:32Speaker 00

  I totally get that right now. I have a new offer right now that I, I've been doing and I'm, I'm literally in this right now of how am I talking to the person that I actually want in here? And it's crazy because they, the problem that I was initially talking to was that they wanted to make money from podcasts, right? Like actually go on podcasts and make money. And I'm like, they don't even know that that's a problem or that their messaging is not super clear. But what they do think is that their media kit's not working and they're not getting booked. And I'm like, that's not even the problem. Your messaging is so not clear, but that's what they think the problem is? So when I started saying that, they're coming into the program, which is crazy to me.

• 8:12Speaker 00

  So it 100 million percent proves your point that you have to figure out what they are thinking is the main problem that's stopping them.

• 8:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, totally. And again, it's like, most people aren't waking up in the middle of the night thinking to themselves, geez, I wish I could get on more podcasts. Like they're thinking to themselves, oh my gosh, I wish I had more exposure. I wish I had more credibility. I wish more people knew who I was. I wish I could get my message out there. And so again, it's putting it in the words that they're actually using instead of what we think they need or what we know they need, right?

• 8:44Speaker 00

  What is an unpopular opinion about personal branding and social media that you think more women need to hear?

• 8:53Speaker 01

  Um, I can be a bit brutal about this. I used to be, and like we were talking before about network marketing. And I remember someone taught me, oh, you just, you know, on social media in order to really get an audience and really do what you want to do, you just need to document your life. And so I would wake up in the morning, I don't know if you ever went through this, and I would like take a photo of my beach walk and then here's my cacao and then here's my outfit for the day. And then here's like my workspace and then, oh, I'm, here's my dog that I'm playing with. And I was like, I am so good at social media. I just document my whole life. And the truth is, and I think this is the biggest misconception of personal branding, no one really cares what you're doing.

• 9:33Speaker 01

  Which is kind of, again, brutal, but I think that I had this idea of a personal brand means everyone wants to know more about me. Like I, I think I'm a Kardashian and they want to follow my life and see what I'm up to. And they really don't, like they, they, they really, really don't. People don't want to see what I'm doing in my life. People don't care what I have. People don't care who I am. People are innately on social media, and this is where I get a bit brutal. People are selfish. They want to scroll. They want to follow you because of what they can get from you, what they can learn from you. And so I think when you're thinking of a personal brand, instead of really thinking of, okay, well, who do I need to be? You have to ask yourself, what do people need? What do people need that they're going to pay for that they, what's going to get their attention?

• 10:17Speaker 01

  Not how is she doing that, but like, how can I do that instead? And so I think the biggest misconception is making it very me focused, very much about like who you are, who you want to be perceived as, instead of what other people need to see. My, my one mantra, I always think when I talk about a personal brand is people are consuming themselves through your content. So I always ask myself, how do I have my content let someone see themselves and see where they can go and what they can do? And that makes a good personal brand, not your morning coffee and your kids' soccer lesson. You know what I mean?

• 10:52Speaker 00

  How, how did you figure that out for yourself? And how did you, I know you, you said a little bit through the lens that you look through. But if you're working with a client who is going from like kind of documenting her life, maybe she has a, I think, let's just say she, she's a, a coach, it's a personal brand and she's a business coach. How would she start looking through that lens of adding value?

• 11:15Speaker 01

  Do you know what? The way that I figured this out, I just started looking at what I was interested in. Now, and what would make me stop on someone? Like you said in the beginning, you started following me and you were seeing my stuff over and over again, which I love, like how the algorithm works as well. That really interests me. And I always get really like, I could talk about it for hours about how the algorithm feeds you, what you're slowing down on and what you're looking at. But realistically, when you think about, okay, how do I consume content and what am I interested in? I, I remember just thinking to myself one day, I saw a girl online and she had posted something, something about anti-aging. And I think at the time I was thirty five and I was like, oh my gosh, I'm getting wrinkles and I'm starting to like,

• 11:57Speaker 01

  look older and this is like, what do I need to do? I need to start using proper skincare.

• 12:02Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 12:02Speaker 01

  And I remember going and looking at her page and in that moment I asked myself, what is making me hit follow? Right? Again, I don't care what she uses. I care what she uses that will help me. I don't care her routine. I care what part of her routine can I steal so that I can have what she has? And so really looking at the way I was consuming made me aware of how people actually show up online and do things a little bit the wrong way. And so I say to everyone, if you're running a personal brand, ask yourself, what makes you follow someone? What makes you stop on a reel and look at a hook? And what makes you read a caption? What makes you click on their actual handle to go to their page? It's like, it's never just, oh, she looks interesting.

• 12:45Speaker 01

  Cause I could look really interesting, but no one really cares. They go, oh, I can get something from what I'm going to learn from her. I can see a lot through her content that's actually going to help me get where I need to go, you know?

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. I'm thinking of, you know, for me with your content, interacting with it, I really loved visually how it looked. I loved what you were saying too, but the, the, you kind of had all the things going. It was the hook, the fonts, the visual hooks that you use, you know, how you do your content. It was just kind of like,

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:15Speaker 00

  picking apart how you all do it to make it look the way it did and very cohesive. So for when you're talking to different people, because they probably follow you for this reason and also want to learn how you do that. Cause it kind of looks like your content has all of the main characteristics that make really great content. Which part felt easy for you? Which part felt hard? Visually, is that something that you really had to work on?

• 13:42Speaker 01

  Well, I'm a laborer. Okay. So like, it's going to be pretty.

• 13:46Speaker 00

  Got it, got it, got it. Yep.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it's going to be pretty. It's going to be aesthetic. But like most of my content, um, I just did a post about like, oh, I'm going on a podcast, like top twenty five entrepreneurial podcast in the world. Guess who? I filmed it in my bathroom. Like it, so again, it, it doesn't have to be a fancy space. But I think first and foremost aesthetically, I do think it's important because Instagram is a visual platform. Like if you don't get someone's attention quickly, then they're going to scroll past. And I think a lot has changed. Like I think people don't like overly edited, you know, overly filtered stuff. They kind of want to see things that look a bit more clean. But in my experience as well, when I put up professionally filmed content, it performs

• 14:29Speaker 01

  so poorly. I don't know if you've ever found this as well. Like when you put like, yeah, you go get a brand shoot done and you get all this like, you know, high res footage and then you put it up on a reel and it just like, flops.

• 14:42Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  So I think people know what they expect on Instagram. And yes, I think a part of it is the visual side of things. Um, I always say though, you know, you want to make sure that you're showing up visually as the person that they want to hire. So like, I, I don't know about you, but I don't look like this every day. Like I, um, I have four kids. Sometimes I have a top knot. Um, you know, and I kind of look like a baby panda because you know, I'm tired and I haven't slept and my kid's been up all night or whatever it might be. But you know, it's the, what, what version of me needs to show up that my clients are going to go, yes, she's the one I want to hire. So, you know, I, I also feel like back in the day of like document your life, it was like, just be messy. Like do the top non, just be in your active wear. And I think there's a place for that.

• 15:26Speaker 01

  But as well, we're running businesses. So I do think there needs to be a little bit of effort put into the visual side of things. And so you know, I always say just find like two places in your house that you can just film content. And on the days when you're getting ready to go out, like I have makeup on and a cute outfit. So I'll probably film some stuff today because I can. Um, and then make things, the other thing is make things easy to read. I, I see a lot of people that put just a lot of text on their screen and I'm like, I can't read that. Like it's too much. And so I think making it easy to read, making the visual hook important is like one of my biggest things. And then actually making your content interesting. Like not giving them generic advice that they could hear from anywhere. Like if you're a health coach and you're telling people to eat your greens,

• 16:12Speaker 01

  that's not enough for me. I like to do better.

• 16:14Speaker 00

  You do better, right? How do you figure those nuances out? Because I, I totally agree. Like if you,

• 16:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:20Speaker 00

  if you read that and you were like, this is vanilla or this is not exciting. No one is going to think that's exciting. I have literally, I don't normally do this, but I've been really busy lately because I launched this accelerator and I normally have more time for content and I just was putting up like crap content. And I was like, that's bad. Like I don't like it. If I think it's bad, no one's going to stop on it. So I'll archive it. And I'm like, I normally never archive because I just will let it sit, even if it's bad.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:46Speaker 00

  But, but there's definitely strategy and thought that has to go into good content for me. And I'll, you know, keep it in my notes app. I'll do a million different things in terms of what I'm launching or what I'm doing and what I want to focus on. What are some strategies for you that you are using, whether it's with Claude, um, AI, whatever you're doing to kind of find what your favorite topics are, what's really working for you, what you should be focusing content on? Like how do we find our voice and our topics?

• 17:16Speaker 01

  Yeah. So first of all, um, yeah, if, if you don't, if you're not obsessed with your content. Don't post it. Like I, I, I think I scroll my own page. I'm more obsessed with my own content from a educational standpoint. Like I'm like, God, that's good. Like I look at my own stuff and I'm like, she is the goat. This girl, I'm like, I want more people like me online because I love my content. I think it's so valuable. So I think if you're not obsessed with your own content, why would you expect other people to be? Like I look at your content and I'm like, yes, Lori, like nailing it, just funny, exciting, educational, like prepping for this. I was like, I better go through her page and figure out like,

• 17:58Speaker 01

  what do I need to make sure I do on the podcast? So like getting interviewed by the queen of podcasting. So first and foremost, be obsessed with your own content. And then when it comes to actually organizing it, I mean, as much as I'd like to say no one copies anyone, like we're all getting, like I said, people, most people follow me because they're just like, I'm gonna copy that hook. Or I really like the way that she filmed that video, or I like the way that she formatted the text on screen. So I use a couple of different things. I have a Notion document that I use. I call it my content system. And every time I see a post, I save it into this Notion system and I type out what I liked about it. So it might be that I liked the font on the screen because carousels are blowing up right now.

• 18:42Speaker 01

  Or it might be the, the hook was really interesting. Like I saved one the other day where a guy was like, um, you know, five phrases that should be banned for how good they make your content. I'm like, oh, I like that angle of like banning things or things being illegal. So again, I do think it's a bit of self reflecting on what do I like and what do I look at a lot? And everyone does this, but what most people do is they scroll and they don't actually use their scrolling time to look at what's really working for them when it comes to what catches their attention. So literally anytime a piece of content catches my attention, I save it into this Notion table. I put a little line or two about what it was that caught my attention. And then when I'm actually creating content,

• 19:24Speaker 01

  I can go to that and I have inspiration on everything from hooks to visual hooks to, you know, captions, how a caption was set out, how a, you know, when they do like the four photos with the text in the middle, like all of that. I have inspiration for all of it. So I never run out of ideas on what to post, ever.

• 19:43Speaker 00

  How about when you are coming up to a launch or something that you're selling in your business? What does that look like for you for planning?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  So I have a bit of a, I call it like a sales rhythm. So essentially what I do when I'm coming up to a launch of something is I decide first and foremost, if I need to grow my audience a little bit more for some reason, because my business is about growth and getting more leads. I'm a big believer, if you don't have leads, you don't have a business.

• 20:10Speaker 00

  Yep.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Then I need to actually make sure that I'm proving that I can do what I'm sharing with people that I'm going to teach them how to do. So I have proof of concept. So I'll go, okay, I'm going to go and grow by another 10,000 followers in the next month. So that when I'm selling into this thing, I've got more and relevant social proof of what is the system that I'm going to use. Then I go into a period of seeding the idea. Um, so the way that I work with content, and this is really good if you, if, if people ever think to themselves, oh my gosh, I just, I don't know what to post. I work off concepts, I call them. And so when something comes up for me, so say I'm having a conversation with a client, or maybe something comes up in this podcast where we're chatting and I think to myself, gosh, that, that would be a really good conversation to have in content.

• 20:53Speaker 00

  Hmm.

• 20:54Speaker 01

  I write it down somewhere. I have a little notes app with all my concepts that I'm currently running. And I go into Claude or ChatGPT or whatever AI, and I've trained it up really well to do this. But essentially I get it to write out 20 to 50 post ideas on that one concept. And this is the part that I think most people kind of don't think about when it comes to a launch. I

• 21:19Speaker 00

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• 24:08Speaker 00

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• 25:30Speaker 01

  Repeat myself so much. Like if you actually went through my content, I pretty much say the same thing over and over and over again in just 20 to 50 different ways. And I think that's what creates that omnipresence and that mental real estate for people in their mind about me is because I'm not saying 75 different things. I'm saying one thing 75 different ways.

• 25:52Speaker 00

  Mm hmm. That, I think that's one of the biggest things that I have learned that has actually started to really catapult me into a certain place that I want to be. A lot of us who are creatives find each other, obviously. And I think one of the biggest struggles of creatives is just being so multi-passionate that we want to talk about everything and we can get bored really quickly, right? So it's like, no, I did that. Now I need to talk about something and I'm over that and I launched that, but I need to try something new. And that is like the death of a really beautiful, consistent, large business that we all want and we all dream of. So you know, when I look at the people that really started to inspire me over like the last two years, they beat a dead horse. Like they,

• 26:36Speaker 00

  their content is so specifically about the certain thing. And you never get sick of it because like you said, number one, they're saying it in a different way. Number two, you're not seeing, we're just not seeing all of it. So tell me some of the ways that when you find some content that works for you, how do you then go in and look at that content that's working and kind of do different iterations of that? Like what do you study? What's the most important data that you look for?

• 27:00Speaker 01

  Well, first of all, I have a list.

• 27:02Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  I have my 20 different ways to say one thing. So this, and like, I don't know if I can give you resources. I could literally just send you the list and you can put it in the notes or something so that everyone can borrow it.

• 27:14Speaker 00

  In the notes, you guys, yes.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this list for me is like, okay, when I have this one idea, I'm gonna go hard on it. So say, you know, for me, one of the big things that I teach my clients is that I want them to have a business that fits in with their life, not the other way around. Cause like I mentioned, I have a lot of children. I have a husband who's starting up two big businesses and we've just, we've got a lot going on. So I'm like, I don't want to be taken over by my work. I want it to really fit in with my life, but still be super abundant. So that might be my concept, right? And then I have this 20 ways. So there's the hot take, there's the tutorial carousel, there's the origin story, there's client proof. There's the listicle post, the mythbuster, the B-roll with a long caption, the confession, the mirror, the receipt, the question.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  And so on this list that I'm going to give you guys, there's an explanation about how to say it. And so I take that one concept, I put this list in and then I put that into AI and it basically spits out a whole bunch of different ways to say it.

• 28:11Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 28:12Speaker 01

  And that is like, we're like, this is easy now.

• 28:16Speaker 00

  That's, I don't know why, I mean, like, I feel like I've seen everything, but I don't know why that just made this so easy. Like say the same thing, but in a million, I mean, all of the, in all of these different ways. That's

• 28:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 28:27Speaker 00

  So great. I love that.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Laurie, I'm so lazy. Like I, if I can do things easy, like I'm gonna do it easy. I, I don't wanna have to complicate anything. So I'm like, if I can hack it, like, my fiance always laughs at me because I listen to podcasts on double speed and I'm like, I'm always looking to habit stack. And he's like, you always wanna cheat code. This is the best cheat code because you literally will never run out of post ideas.

• 28:53Speaker 00

  Yeah, but you're a cheat code girl now. So that's great. Like, yeah, please go be lazy so that you can tell us how to be, you know?

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Exactly what I'm doing for you. In fact, it would

• 29:01Speaker 00

  God, because I, I wanna be more lazy. So, okay, Ange, what do you think? Like, is really separating the women that are standing out right now? Because there, I know that we are all seeing the same people over and over and over.

• 29:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 29:17Speaker 00

  Because, because of the algorithm, because of exactly what we do, we, you know, we like something and we get more and more and more of it. So tell me a little bit about what you think that is and what we should be thinking about in wanting to stand out as an absolute like industry icon.

• 29:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm gonna repeat what we were just talking about almost. And I feel like all the multi-passionate girlies are just gonna be like, oh, I hate this girl. Ange is so annoying.

• 29:43Speaker 00

  They need to hear it. Keep saying it.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  You just have to repeat yourself. You have to be known for one thing. You have to speak to one person, be the expert in one thing. Like as you get bigger, I have this rule with my clients. When you're first starting out, one person, one thing, one offer. Like do not touch anything else. Stay in one lane. And then once you're like 500,000 followers, go for it. Act like, you know, a reality star and talk about all the things if you really want to, but you probably won't make any more money if you do that. Like it really is just being known for that one thing. It's being known as the girl who does the specific thing. Like I am the messaging girl and my page did not blow up at the rate that it does now until I got really clear on that.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Like when I started my business, I, I'm gonna do branding and messaging and I'm gonna speak to network marketers and I'm gonna speak to coaches and I'm gonna speak to service-based businesses and oh, here's someone with a product-based business. I might let them in as well. So I was trying to be everything for everyone. And it was like, I could grow, like I could kind of go viral and grow a little bit, but it wouldn't relate to sales. Because my, like, my biggest thing is I, an audience, a big audience that's not gonna buy from you is a fricking waste of time. Like that, there's no point to it, right? And so I was doing that. I was basically growing for years. I was like, none of these people are buying from me. And I, I'd like, why, like, I've got all these followers, but why am I not making so many more sales?

• 31:09Speaker 01

  I'm making a few more sales, but why not so many? And then I realized because I'm not known for anything. And so now you can go to my page and you know, this is the girl that talks about messaging and how to use messaging to pull your dream clients into your page so that your content actually sells. Like I just teach my clients, here's how to post content that has people throw their credit card at you. If it doesn't do that, you're wasting your time. If you're just getting likes, you're wasting your time. So you do need to become known for something, I think. It might've been Alex Pomozzi who said something along the lines of like, your business is not your creative outlet. I kind of agree to, like, to an extent. So I have like, I have a sub stack. I have a secret sub stack where I write about stuff that I, that has nothing to do with my business.

• 31:52Speaker 01

  I will, I'll never share it with anyone. It's like a passion project. This is where I get to just be creative. And this is where I get to do the things that, you know, sometimes I'm like, oh, I really wanna play around in this area. I'm like, yeah, I can do that. But it's not what my business is for. My business is for this. And all my creative stuff gets to live outside of that, like all the other bits and pieces that don't match in. So I think if you're multi-passionate, understanding that your business is like, okay, this is the thing that it's here for. If you wanna make F you money, like if you wanna go really hard, then let your business be what it's about and have your creativity come out in other ways, right? If you've got the time, you can have multiple Instagram pages if you want to, like go and do all the other things, but just be known for one thing.

• 32:38Speaker 00

  And what do you think? You had mentioned messaging that makes people wanna throw their credit card at you. What goes into that type of messaging?

• 32:45Speaker 01

  Okay. So first and foremost, like my brain works in systems. First and foremost, to get someone to stop on the post, there needs to be something that has them self-identify and say, oh, this is for me. So I see a lot of people doing content where it's like, they'll start the talking head reel by saying something like, if you're a girl who, if you're a woman running a business, if you're a compassionate girl, if you're a single woman doing this, so I think there needs to be some form of them seeing that this is for them first and foremost, because we need to catch their attention. Like this is for you. I made this for you. The second thing is giving them a mirror moment where they see themselves. And like, again, this can't be a feeling and I will die on this hill. If you use feeling words to sell your offer,

• 33:31Speaker 01

  it's not gonna work. You're never gonna get the amount of people in that you could get in. You're going to get fans potentially. But you're never gonna get the volume of people you could get if you speak into actual lived moments, cinematic experiences they're having. If you talk to feelings and, and I, I think as women, I'm interested if you agree with this. We have so many feelings every day. So I can wake up in the morning.

• 33:55Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:56Speaker 01

  Look in the mirror and be like, I'm such a hottie. Oh my God, my hair is like doing so good today. I'm amazing. I can have a great day of cash and be like, oh my gosh, I'm so good in business. And then, I don't know, I can get a message from someone saying they didn't understand something in one of my offers and all of a sudden I'm terrible. Um, everybody hates me. I'm awful at what I do. I like, I suck. I'm all the bad things. And so I, like, my feelings can go from here to here in like 2.5 seconds.

• 34:26Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 34:26Speaker 01

  And so I think when we use feeling words to use in our marketing to sell to people, again, people aren't picking up their phone and scrolling to feel things. They're picking up their phone and scrolling to not feel things. And then we're using feeling words, which, you know, again, they might not be feeling that, that particular day, right?

• 34:45Speaker 00

  Can you give us an example of like the mirror moment? Do you have one that you can explain that you do?

• 34:51Speaker 01

  So one that I use all the time, I say, in so much, I've had to stop using it because I said it too much. If you wake up in the morning and before you brush your teeth, you pick up your phone to check the insights on the reel you posted last night. You see that it's got 20 likes and three comments. Two of the comments are from your girlfriends or a former client. Then you start scrolling and you see that other coach who has half your audience or half your expertise. And she's just sold out another program and you're asking yourself why? Then you have a messaging problem. And so she sees herself, because I know that the women that I attract, they're like picking up their phone in the morning before they've even gone to the bathroom. And they're checking if the reel performed because they're so worried about the vanity metrics as opposed to what's actually gonna make them money,

• 35:37Speaker 01

  that that feels like the most important thing. So they see themselves in that moment. And that's that relatable moment where people who see relatable content stop on it. Because it's not, again, it's not a feeling, which is very transient. We can feel so many things. It's okay, wow, I actually did that. Like that's something that I did. That's an experience that I had. So, you know, um, fitness and health coaches will talk about going to the fridge, you know, intending to make a healthy meal, but grabbing, you know, the sleeve of cookie dough and just having a few bites and getting back to work. They'll talk about the actual moment. And when someone feels seen in a moment, they actually see that you can be the solution because you understand what they're experiencing right now and not in vague terms.

• 36:20Speaker 01

  Cause when it's vague, the solution feels vague.

• 36:23Speaker 00

  Yeah, that makes, I mean, that makes so much sense. And that's actually so much easier to sit with than like, like you said, we have a million different feelings. It could be, well, you're anxious. Well, some people don't feel anxious. Some people feel, you know, upset or frustrated. So there's so many different words that like moments are more universal because it's truly what we find, what we could have all identify with that moment of waking up in the morning and being like, God damn it, why isn't this working? That is so real.

• 36:51Speaker 01

  Like all of my clients, I'll say to them, like, if you're screening other coaches' content and putting it into ChatGPT to ask why it worked so well and why it went viral, like that's when you need me. Like, you don't, you shouldn't be doing that. And so again, it's the mirror moments, right?

• 37:04Speaker 00

  That is so good. Yes. Okay. So one was self-identify, two is mirror moment. What's the next one?

• 37:11Speaker 01

  The next one is give them a call to action. Give them something super easy that they can do, right? And so I'm a big fan of giving away a lot of stuff for free. Um, I think last night or yesterday afternoon, I did a post where I gave away a Claude prompt for free. And I think it was like a thousand, maybe 1500 comments on it overnight because again, like, give away taste testers of your actual work so that people can experience you. I'm a big advocate of this and I know all the high-ticket girlies will be like, no, but I, I really like saying to people, hey, you can just, you can give me a go. Like you can try me on. You can have like a little sample of my work to make sure you like it. I think that that's really powerful. And so again, they first of all identify, so that hooks them into the post.

• 37:55Speaker 01

  Then they see an actual moment, like a lived experience and they go, wow, okay, this girl really knows me. Like she's totally speaking to me. And then they have an opportunity to go, okay, well, if she knows who I am, if she knows what I'm doing and she has a solution that I can grab right now, that's just built trust. And that's when people start to binge your content. Cause they go, okay, I've got this one thing or this one person seeing me. And I like to say, you know, I have a post from February 2025. So a long time ago, like a year and a half ago, and I still get comments on it. Because people are scrolling that far down my page.

• 38:31Speaker 00

  Wow.

• 38:31Speaker 01

  That they're literate, like they're binging so much of my content to go, what else can I find? What else can I find? What else can I find? Because I've had them feel seen, had them feel understood, and I've given them something back. And so in my mind, that's like the trifecta of just getting people obsessed with your content. Obsessed.

• 38:49Speaker 00

  Okay. So if you had to start over tomorrow and your page got deleted, what would you be doing right now?

• 38:56Speaker 01

  So if you needed to build a following, I would be posting at volume, like just four times a day. I'm a really big believer of quantity creates quality. So if you want to find out what your dream client, I call her your muse, like the person you create your work, your art for. If you want to find out what she responds well to, the only way to do that is to get data. And the only way to get data is to post at volume. And I think this is a big mistake people make when they're trying to either grow their audience or get more leads into their business through social media is they try something once or twice. And it flops and they don't do it again. So everything I do, I have a rule. If I'm trying something new, I have to try it for six weeks.

• 39:39Speaker 01

  And then I assess the data. So I look at what actually made, I don't look at likes and views. I don't look at the vanity metrics. I look at what actually made sales, what got comments and shares and saves, because they're the metrics that I think are most important. And I ask myself, okay, how did this actually go at six weeks? Not how did it feel? How do I think it went? Because again, feelings and emotions are not KPIs. We can't actually measure feelings and emotions when it comes to business. And so everything is six weeks. And so when it comes to growing an audience, if I had to start from scratch, I would just be posting at volume. So I'd be looking at content in my industry that's going viral right now. So again, I'm seeing a lot with carousels.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  I would definitely be posting a ton of carousels. Like I would just, if you're not using Claude designed to make your carousels right now, like learn immediately because it's so easy and so quick. So I'd be posting, you know, two carousels a day, two reels a day, and I would just literally be putting it out in volume. I would have some free giveaways or low ticket offers to get people interested in my work, to build up my email list. And then I'd probably build it back up pretty quickly.

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• 43:35Speaker 00

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• 45:04Speaker 00

  I know we all have different ways of, you know, teaching it, programming it, all the things. Do you have any kind of, you would tell someone to really get it, really dialed in for kind of this, these three things that you said, the self-identity, the mirror, like really identifying with your person? So that when you go to do carousels, do your carousels feel like you're always creating from scratch? Or are you using, like you said, like a main idea and it's, it's like a thought partner with you? What does that all look like?

• 45:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's definitely more of a thought partner than actually coming up with content. Because again, like I look at what I'm inspired by and what I have already got going on in my business. And I go, okay, this story from this client, I can take that concept and now I'm going to get Claude to turn it into a bunch of different things. But when it comes to actually training it, I, in one of my programs, In Demand, I actually, the whole program is based on training up your Claude. So we build out skills that actually train up Claude to not just know you. Cause I think there's two really important parts to this. It needs to know you and your voice, how you train people, how you speak to people, what you naturally believe. And so I actually get cowork to go in.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  And if a client has transcripts from trainings, if they do podcasts, if they've, you know, if they write on Substack or something like that, we get Claude to actually go in and pull their voice out of the stuff that's already there. But the most important part, and the first thing that they do in my program is actually write out about their dream client, about the person. So we talk about, you know, what is she doing at a 9:00 PM on a Tuesday? Who is she already following? When she talks to her girlfriend out having a margarita, how is she explaining her problem? You know, at three o'clock in the morning when she wakes up with like a pang of anxiety? What is the anxiety about? What is the story she's telling herself? You know, what are the things that are happening in the moment? Cause a lot of people love to use feeling words.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  So like the aligned and confident, anxious, frustrated. So my rule is what does she do right before? What happens right before she feels that feeling? So if you're talking about your client feeling overwhelmed or frustrated, what happens in the moments before? And that's where you find the little mirror moments. The moment before is because she's scrolling social media and that coach that she's been watching has just sold out her program again, right? Or that girl who just started her social media has gone viral and she's gained 20,000 followers in the last week and that, that's triggered her frustration. So again, it's more so training up your Claude to understand your client even more than it understands you.

• 47:42Speaker 00

  That's so good. You know, in terms of, we had talked about when you're launching something, you go and prove out what you're doing. So you, you know, gain a bunch of followers because that's what you're talking about. And we have been, you know, when, when we really look at what we do in terms of launch and throughout the year, there's a big difference between like needing leads, getting leads, posting for leads and then posting for followers. Can you tell me a little bit about the dance between the two and when to do it?

• 48:10Speaker 01

  I only, I only post fillets.

• 48:13Speaker 00

  Okay. You don't care about like growth?

• 48:17Speaker 01

  No, I don't care about growth. I only want to grow with dream clients. I, so every post I do has to have an identify, either in the hook or in the caption. It has to identify who I'm for. So this is my personal rule. I like my rule.

• 48:31Speaker 00

  I think it's a good rule.

• 48:33Speaker 01

  But again, I'm running a business. It's not a popularity contest. I, I have no interest in having a big number just for fun. So I post only for leads in my business. So I only post for female coaches, making sales, love social media, can't figure out how to use it to get more sales. Like trying all the things, done all the things. And so if someone's not that, I, I don't particularly need them to follow me, want them to follow me. Now, in saying that, I'm well aware there are some people that follow me because they like my hair.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Like, I know, I get the message.

• 49:06Speaker 00

  I'm one of them too, but there's many other reasons. But for sure. So funny, we're on this. I'm literally like, she has my dream hair. Would it be weird if I screenshot this for my hairdresser? I'll just show them later.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  The amount of people, yeah.

• 49:19Speaker 00

  You're the visual hook. You're the visual hook. It's totally fine. Um, okay. Speaking of, um, you know, identity and figuring out our dream person's identity. When we really think of a woman who wants to be, which is probably every woman who listens to this wants to be like, they want to stand out in the industry. We want to be the person that people are all looking at. What would you say is actually an identity problem versus like a messaging or a content problem? When you start talking to someone?

• 49:47Speaker 01

  For me, what I found was I always equated knowing everything with being the expert. And that to me was an identity issue. So I thought I can't be seen to be learning. I have to be so capable. I have to be so the expert in my space. And that was actually a belief that was stopping me from doing what I needed to do online. I wasn't willing to be seen as the learner. And this is what I see a lot in people is it's almost, I mean, I maybe not the right word, but like an ego issue of like, I have to look like I've got my shit together. I have to look like I know exactly what I'm talking about. And I really think that the women who are running the best businesses and watching you

• 50:31Speaker 01

  and all of the incredible women that you mastermind with and spend time with and collaborate with. What I admire about them is they're willing to be learners and they're willing to say, hey, I'm trying this new thing. And here's what didn't work here and here's what did. And what I find in the people that are really not standing out is they're not willing to be a learner. And I think like, not to beat a dead horse, but the whole Jessie Jean thing was like such a good example of this because she was so willing to just be a learner. And that was an identity shift for her as well of like, you know, she had, from what I understand, years in digital marketing, like she knew what she was doing, but she basically went on and said, no, I'm just going to be a learner. And I think that's the part where the identity piece needs to come through for a lot of people of saying,

• 51:15Speaker 01

  hey, I don't actually have to be the expert because people are more interested in watching me grow and watching what I'm doing so they can learn from it. And that's where your business becomes so, so much easier in order, in, in terms of getting people to follow along with you. If you're just like, hey, I know everything and like, I'm so great and I'm like the expert. It's not really as attractive to people as, hey, I'm learning this and you should come with me. I've got a girlfriend, Valeria. She is a photographer here in Australia. And she's so good with personal branding and all of the things. And for years she's been saying, I'm just, I should start personal branding coaching. And so like maybe a month or two ago, she said, I'm going to grow my audience to 50,000 followers and I'm going to show people how to do it.

• 51:58Speaker 01

  And I'm going to talk about branding and I'm going to talk about what I'm learning. And she is growing so, so, so quickly. Like I think she's gone from 9,000 followers to like almost 40,000 in like six weeks. Because she's taking people for the journey because she put down the identity of, I need to know everything before I can teach it. And she said, no, I'm actually just going to take people along the way as I'm learning it. Because that's again, when they look at you and they go, okay, I can learn from this. I can follow this roadmap now.

• 52:26Speaker 00

  Hmm. Okay. So you have four kids. You're running this business. You had mentioned, you know, some things that you had struggled with before of like perfectionism, potentially, or whatever, you know, you kind of called that. What do you find is like your biggest face off with yourself every day? Like the, the, the resistance, like what would you say the resistance is really around for you right now?

• 52:50Speaker 01

  I really like my life. And so my biggest chat, like the challenge that I'm in right now is I know that I could go so much bigger in my business, but I have this, this thing of like, what's the cost? So I like my daily life. I, um, I also have like a chronic condition. So I get incredibly tired. Um, I have a lot of pain in my body a lot of the time. And so there is this level of like balance, right? Which doesn't exist. There is this level of, I really want to take it to the next level. And I see and I know that there's almost this fear of like, what would it look like? What, what would maybe have to be sacrificed in order for me to go to the next level?

• 53:32Speaker 01

  And I see this in so many clients as well, where they might not even realize. And, and I see where I sabotage myself because I'm like, well, what, what will it look like to, to really take this to the next level, to really go big? You know, I know in my head, I said, if I wanted to get to 500,000 followers by the end of the year, I could do that. I know how it would actually be easy. But then I sabotage myself with like, am I actually ready? And I think a lot of people don't have this awareness and I'm only just coming to it. I think I've been living this for like maybe a year or two and only just realizing it now. I think a lot of people don't always have the awareness that with growth is going to come a new level of responsibility. And sometimes we sabotage ourselves because we're not fully ready for it.

• 54:14Speaker 01

  And so that's what I'm personally like annoyingly navigating is like, okay, do I want to go bigger? What does it look like? You know, I love traveling and I, I went overseas last year to speak in an event in Costa Rica. And then one in Canada later on in the year, and I loved that. But then again, I was like, it was taking time away from my kids. And do I really want to take time away from my kids? And a lot of the work is in the US and that's really far away from here. And do I want to be, you know, taking that time out? So I'm kind of like in this in between now where I'm like, okay, I can stay where I am. Or I can blow it up. And I know I could blow it up if I really wanted to, like I could really take it big.

• 54:55Speaker 01

  But I'm trying to figure out if it's, if it's, if I'm ready, if it's worth it, which I know it is. But that's my internal battle that's going on.

• 55:03Speaker 00

  So real.

• 55:04Speaker 01

  Like every day, every day.

• 55:05Speaker 00

  It's so, so real. And then, and then depending on how you grow, my husband and I have this conversation weekly and we had it our, our entire careers. Cause we absolutely have grown at the cost of not enjoying our life for like 10 years. And like denying that we did, but looking back and going, I don't really know if I enjoyed that whole portion of my life. And that is something that we will not do anymore. So, you know, and I think a lot of times what we see as a really big business and growth, what we forget is that their numbers may not actually be that far off of a small business. Because then when you grow, until you stabilize and get that number very solid,

• 55:49Speaker 00

  you're paying a lot of money in team to get growth. So even now that I get to be in this world of like, understanding everyone's business, I'm like, but you have 20 more employees than me. And technically the number you actually take home is very close to mine. So do I want the, like the more organic, like this level? Or do I want the ads, the ads team, all of these people, the marketing, all the things, you know? And I think until I get to know Claude even better, I'm, I'm good. It's like, I'm in the same position as you. I want like a lot of growth, but not at the cost of, like, I don't want to be traveling all the time anymore. I did that and it is very much like, it's draining. And it's, you know, from one trip to another is like, the second you get home,

• 56:34Speaker 00

  all you're doing is kind of dreading like, I'm going to be gone again very soon. So.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Speaker 00

  It's, that's interesting.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  It's like, it's a, it's a battle every day. But like you said, you know, my business is so lame. Like I have, I mean, I'm in my house right now. I have like two girls that work for me, but like virtually. And I like, I don't do ads yet. And this is the thing, again, I'm like, well, I could go and do ads and put a lot of time and money into it. But I wonder, yeah, again, would it be, would it be worth it for what it would actually come back to? So.

• 57:05Speaker 00

  Such an important conversation.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  That's, that's my team right now. That's my battle. And I think I've got, what do they call it? Like they used to say in, um, network marketing, the golden handcuffs.

• 57:14Speaker 00

  Yes.

• 57:15Speaker 01

  Of like, I'm like, the money's so good and the life is so good right now. But it's like, okay, well, what am I going to sacrifice in order to go to the next level? But, and then I think we see a lot on social media of people having these really high cash months. And it can be so easy to compare. And I definitely get caught up in that as well. And I know that people would compare themselves to me in a way around like, you know, views and followers and things like that. And I just, I think it's really figuring out what's the life we really want to have. And, and I'm in that, yeah, I'm in that conversation with myself right now of really going, okay, what does the next 12, 24 months look like?

• 57:53Speaker 00

  Yeah. I think it's one of the most important conversations we can ever have with ourself. Because we can be caught up in, like you said, comparing ourselves. There was a, a great carousel this guy broke down. He said, you know, you, what you see is a $3 million a month. But what I actually took home was, oh my gosh, I think he took home 300K, which is still insane. But that's not what people are seeing. Do you know what I'm saying? It's still insane, but it's also like, but if people are thinking he's taking home three and he's also probably busy around the clock with the team. And so that's the thing you have to really think about is what does this look like? Is it worth it? What are you growing towards? And, you know, because there's growth seasons in our life.

• 58:36Speaker 00

  So if you know you're going to do that, it's just, especially for women with kids, what's, what's important right now? Where do you need to be? Well, how do you want to feel about this portion of their life? You know, and all the things that I'm sure come with that. But I think that's a really important question. So anyway, I love that you touched on that too, because all.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  And thank you for sharing where you're at. Like it, it's really inspiring as well to hear what, like what you've done is so cool. But the honesty of, hey, you know, that, that 10 years was hard. That, would I say that enough? And this is the part where I, you know, I, I think that we have a responsibility when we have this audience to go, okay, we need to be honest about the parts that are hard. Like I, I always talk about my ludial low. I go really low on the, like the ludial low is real low. Like I'm like, I go to like, I suck. I'm going to burn everything down. I'm awful. In like two days of just like, okay, I'm, you know, I'm not worldly. And then all of a sudden I'm like, oh my God, I'm such a badass again. But we feel alone in it a lot because the, the highlight reel of social media can actually,

• 59:36Speaker 01

  you know, trick us into thinking it's, it's different. It's easy for so many people. And I really admire other people online, like, um, Leanne, who I've worked with before and who you know really well. I really admire that she speaks so openly about her own challenges and battles that she's had over time. And I think these conversations need to just happen so much more openly.

• 59:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, totally. Well, I'm so grateful for you. Where can we find you, follow you? I know you're going to give us that list that we're going to post in comments, you guys. You can go check that out.

• 1:00:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm going to give you the list. I'm mostly on Instagram. That's where you're going to find me. That's where I do my absolute best work. Um, send me a DM. I'm never too busy to get into my DMs. And yeah, we're going to have to do part two to talk about the network marketing thing now.

• 1:00:18Speaker 00

  Oh, I know. We didn't even talk about that.

• 1:00:20Speaker 01

  Next.

• 1:00:21Speaker 00

  We will. Thank you so much for coming on. You guys, go check that out. Go get the list and until next time, earn your happy. Bye, everyone.