TBT: Menendez Murders - Abuse & Atrocity

Throwback Thursday Bunnie and Meme are coming in hot with a deep dive into the infamous Menendez brothers case. With receipts, notes, and a whole lot of opinions, they unpack Lyle and Erik’s dark family history, years of abuse, and the media circus that followed. The duo breaks down Ryan Murphy’s latest docuseries — calling out what it nailed and what it completely missed. Were the Menendez brothers ruthless killers or broken victims pushed to the edge? As confessions surface and secrets unravel, Bunnie and Meme make you question everything you thought you knew about one of America’s most shocking true-crime stories. Watch Full Episodes & More: www.dumbblondeunrated.com

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Bunnie XO?

  Bunny XO

• 0:00Speaker 01

  She was a Vegas girl

• 0:02Bunnie XO?

  Bunny XO

• 0:23Bunnie XO?

  Is this thing on? What's up you sexy motherfuckers? Welcome back to another episode of Don Blonde True Crime Month, baby! It's my favorite month. I know, I love it. I would do true crime all the time. Are we? I don't know, shall we? I love, we said that last time too, and then we like did it for like two more months and then it just, we were like, okay, interviews. Um, today, we are gonna be talking about Lyle and Eric Menendez. They are so, uh, just literally like the, the entire world has re-embraced them.

• 1:04Bunnie XO?

  Um, and it really warms my heart because I followed this trial. Um, I was, I think like, how old was I? Let me look. Yeah, I was about, so it was 89, I was nine when this trial was going on. So I followed it, um, so I, I remember how the world made it look back then. And then as I got older, I still kind of like kept in tune with it because I've always been like a true crime junkie. And I learned more and more and more, and I've always, always, always thought those boys did not get a fair shot.

• 1:44Bunnie XO?

  So, in lieu of the new Ryan Murphy, uh, you know, is that a documentary or a TV show? I feel like it's a darky series, right? I feel like it's a TV show though because it's based on true events, but it's also very Hollywood. Yes, which we'll get into. So, yeah, which we'll talk all about that too and what our opinions about it are. But, for those of you that live under a fucking rock, we are gonna cover this entire case from fucking pillar to post. And hopefully, we can, um, you know, share our opinions and how we feel about the situation with y'all. Draw speculations. Yes, everything's alleged. Um, and we'll go from there. How does that sound?

• 2:27Bunnie XO?

  So what we're gonna do is, we're gonna start from when the murders happened, but as we talk about the murders and the court case and stuff like that, everything will be revealed about their childhood and, and you know, just, it'll all make sense. So I know at first, we're, normally we start from the beginning and then

• 2:43Speaker 02

  Working to it, yeah.

• 2:45Bunnie XO?

  But now we're go, we're just gonna literally dive straight into the night that the murders happened. Everything that happened after that, and then by the time Lyle and Eric get on, stand to testify, all of this stuff about their childhood.

• 2:56Speaker 02

  We're coming in hot with this one.

• 2:57Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, we're coming in hot. We've got fucking notes. When I tell-

• 3:00Speaker 02

  Look, show them.

• 3:01Bunnie XO?

  When I tell you-

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Show them.

• 3:02Bunnie XO?

  Look at this. Open them. Open them. When I tell you, these are the Lyle and Eric Menendez notes. We studied.

• 3:13Speaker 02

  This is crazy, you guys. Like, I'm telling you, we went deep.

• 3:16Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, we really, just because I wanted to know everything, you know, like, I feel like the Carly and Greg, there wasn't a lot to know, you know, so it was like there was-

• 3:25Speaker 02

  That story's still unfolding.

• 3:26Bunnie XO?

  Literally.

• 3:27Speaker 02

  I mean, for it to have just happened, so this happened so long ago that we've had, you know, over a decade, multiple decades.

• 3:36Bunnie XO?

  And I would just like to put it out there, Lyle and Eric Menendez, when you guys do get freed, because I believe you will, I would love to have you guys on the podcast. Don't come for me, internet, because I want people who have murdered people on the podcast, though. And, uh, by the way, we will be talking about Wade Wilson next week, and we have Diane Ruiz's boys coming on the podcast. JD Delay is gonna be with me. It's gonna be a deep dive and a lot of shocking bombshells will be dropped.

• 4:02Speaker 02

  Yes, there will be.

• 4:03Bunnie XO?

  Cause I have been saving everything for the documentary that we were working on, and I called the documentary off just because we'll get into that, uh, whenever we talk about it, but yeah, I'm ready to go in about that and I'm ready to speak my mind.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Oh, uh, we are parked- In downtown Chicago, I can hear the cars going by outside. So if you guys hear background noise honking because everyone in Chicago likes to honk.

• 4:26Bunnie XO?

  Uh, that's what's happening. The best fucking food out here though. Like, can somebody tell me why Chicago has the best freaking food?

• 4:33Speaker 02

  So good.

• 4:34Bunnie XO?

  No, it's, it's insanity. But um, yeah, uh, I'm hoping that you guys are loving the true, the tour bu- the true crime tour bus.

• 4:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 4:42Bunnie XO?

  Uh, true crime tour bus edition is what we're doing over here. So, but we just, you know, we wanted to stick with tradition and we wanted to make sure that you guys, um, you know, had some stuff to listen to during the month of October. Alright, so we are gonna kick this off, Lyle and Eric Menendez on the night of the murders that happened. So that is August of nineteen eighty-nine. Jose Menendez, an executive at RCA Records and his wife Kitty Menendez are shot and killed by shotgun blasts in their Beverly Hills mansion. At eleven forty-seven PM, Lyle, the son, calls nine-one-one and said, someone killed my parents.

• 5:21Speaker 02

  Distraughtly calls.

• 5:23Bunnie XO?

  Distraughtly calls, yes. Like, is like, I mean, just playing it up, like, boy, they had said, it even said both boys were hysterical, almost overreacting.

• 5:32Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 5:33Bunnie XO?

  So, you know, as you guys know, Lyle and Eric killed them, but, you know, they lived this life of like, just lavishness. They lived in a mansion in Beverly Hills. I think their zip code was even nine oh two one oh.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:49Bunnie XO?

  Like, that's so fucking just like, par for the course.

• 5:52Speaker 02

  Like, prestigious Hollywood LA type neighborhood you could possibly imagine. Quiet mansions. It's insane.

• 6:00Bunnie XO?

  Jose was an, uh, um, Jose was a record exec for RCA and like, I think like, was like, I, don't quote me on this, he was either owner or heavily, heavily involved with Hertz rental cars.

• 6:14Bunnie XO?

  So like the dude, they they had money.

• 6:15Speaker 02

  They had more than enough money.

• 6:17Bunnie XO?

  They were doing great. Um, Eric has said in an interview that, you know, if the police would have pressed them, he would have folded because they had zero alibi and they also had gunpowder residue all over their hands.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're very sloppy.

• 6:32Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, very sloppy. Like these boys, when when when, as things start to unfold, you're gonna understand why they did this. Like I said, you must live under a rock if you don't know the story, but stay with us if you don't know the story. Um, so I mean, like, they literally didn't even think about it. You can tell it was almost a crime of passion. Because they didn't think everything out. They just literally went downstairs and blew their fucking parents' heads off.

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:57Bunnie XO?

  You know?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  They didn't put together a plan. They didn't like rehearse this. They didn't go over anything. It just, it happened. They panicked.

• 7:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Shortly after, and that's when the so-called alibis or like the cleanups or whatever they attempted. Those came into play in passion, like you said.

• 7:18Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I don't think they tried to clean up anything.

• 7:20Speaker 02

  Like the, any gun shells and stuff? Remember they walked in and grabbed all the gun shells?

• 7:24Bunnie XO?

  Um, yeah, that's right. Cause he says right here, he says had they had searched their car, there were gun shells inside the vehicle and his vehicle was inside the search area. So yes, you were right.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  Crazy.

• 7:35Bunnie XO?

  You caught that, that's good.

• 7:36Speaker 02

  I was paying attention. Like this is, this is definitely something.

• 7:41Bunnie XO?

  I'm like overloaded, like with research on this.

• 7:44Speaker 02

  It's like, I I find it crazy that this kind of falls back into last week's episode of like, they're smart kids.

• 7:51Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  But they're not street smart kids.

• 7:53Bunnie XO?

  Right. I mean, they're, they grew up in fricking Beverly Hills.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 7:57Bunnie XO?

  How to do drive-bys or anything. Um, so Eric also went on to tell the detectives. Cause like, you know, uh, they were never, um, pinpointed as suspects.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 8:10Bunnie XO?

  Which is crazy to me because you gotta think, these detectives go into this crime scene, both parents' heads are blown off with shotgun shells in Beverly Hills. The, the sons immediately are not suspects. One, I think because of the dad's stature.

• 8:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:26Bunnie XO?

  I would truly believe that that's why they didn't treat them bad. Cause they were just like, oh, they wouldn't, they could never do this, you know? But secondly, they didn't even test the boys' hands for for gunpowder residue.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 8:37Bunnie XO?

  Had they had done that, you know, they would have been like, um, something's not adding up here.

• 8:41Speaker 02

  So when the cops show up, the first thing that Lyle is like pressing is like, I think the mom did this. You know, that was their alibi.

• 8:48Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  You know what I mean? So like, he immediately was just like, nope, it wasn't us.

• 8:53Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  You know, and so I believe, like you said, the dad's role in the community and his his ability to have like this perfect persona of a family.

• 9:03Bunnie XO?

  Powerful man.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, they were like, oh, no, the kids could never.

• 9:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, the boys did get brought brought in for questioning, but I mean, that's just like par for the course. If you're at any murder or you walk in on any crime scene. So he said that if the detectives have been paying attention, when the detectives and him were talking, he said that he discovered his parents and that he saw smoke.

• 9:27Speaker 02

  The smoke.

• 9:28Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, the room was filled with smoke. So how weren't they arrested was surprising to him is exactly what he said. And he said, because seeing smoke would mean he would have had to have been there around the time of the crime.

• 9:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:41Bunnie XO?

  So, you know, there was just so many clues, so many things that.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  So obvious.

• 9:49Bunnie XO?

  Pointed at the boys, but I think that the people in the community and the and the police just didn't want to believe it.

• 9:55Speaker 02

  No, not at all. I don't think anyone thought of them.

• 9:58Bunnie XO?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:58Speaker 02

  And like, it truly was this. When they do get caught and we'll get to that, it's like, they could have gotten away with this.

• 10:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yes.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  They could have gotten away with this.

• 10:11Bunnie XO?

  They would have gotten away with it, for sure.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Um, but I do agree, the the slip ups, it it all points to me that this was passion.

• 10:21Bunnie XO?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Passion kill.

• 10:23Bunnie XO?

  Hmm, for sure. Uh, people thought it was strange that the boys were still living in the same house that their parents were murdered in. So even after they blew their parents' heads off, the boys continued to thrive and live in the same house. And you know, that's when people started kind of being like, this is a little weird.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Yeah. I wonder if anyone suspected it. Prior to them getting caught. I wonder how many people were like. Maybe the boys actually did do this and no one was willing to speak up because of their stature.

• 10:53Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, well, I feel like especially back in the day, like in the eighties and nineties. People fucking minded their business.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  I mean, that's true.

• 11:04Bunnie XO?

  But nobody's trying to expose anybody in the eighties and nineties dude and like now how it is now. Motherfuckers would be like, I think he fucking did it. They'd fucking do a fucking. They'd have a podcast about it like it would. Everybody's exposing everybody. Back then, motherfuckers didn't say a word.

• 11:20Speaker 02

  No, they kept to themselves. They would talk about it like during coffee or like over a cigar or some shit, but like.

• 11:25Bunnie XO?

  In the streets.

• 11:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:26Bunnie XO?

  Like, you know, gossip.

• 11:27Speaker 02

  That's what I'm wondering. Like, I wonder how many times they sat down and were like, I bet you those boys did it.

• 11:31Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, for sure. I'm sure there was a couple of people who thought that too, but because of.

• 11:38Bunnie XO?

  You know, again, who Jose was, a lot of people just didn't want to, you know.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  I didn't want to think that.

• 11:44Bunnie XO?

  The boat.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, badly of him also because like he put out this persona that. In this community and his uh work and everything that he was like the perfect family man.

• 11:53Bunnie XO?

  Mm hmm. So Lyle has been quoted as saying, I didn't have good coping mechanisms as a child. I was comfortable with keeping secrets. So I mean, that right there. For him, and this is before he even said anything about, you know, the abuse or anything like that. Um. For him to say that he was comfortable keeping secrets, that's fucking crazy.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:17Bunnie XO?

  If you you know, some crazy shit's going on in that family that you can kill your parents and just act like nothing happened.

• 12:23Speaker 02

  Mm hmm. Exactly. And like I I do feel like the over dramatized. Phone calls and like the acting that when the police were there goes to show how good of a liar he can be.

• 12:34Bunnie XO?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. They said that Lyle also did ninety percent of the talking after the parents deaths because you know, Lyle is the older brother.

• 12:42Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 12:43Bunnie XO?

  So he kind of like, they said that he began having business meetings. With people to try to carry out what they thought their father would want them to do.

• 12:53Bunnie XO?

  It's like, it's crazy when you think about it because these boys were like, it's almost like. They were living, I I don't know. It's almost like a fantasy role play of like, maybe they genuinely were so fucked up from what happened in their house that they, well, what I've noticed in all the research too, is these boys still had like this weird tremendous respect for their father, which isn't that like Munchausen syndrome?

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Uh, it's kind of, it's it's a, I would assume it's like

• 13:25Bunnie XO?

  Oh, no Stockholm syndrome.

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Stockholm, that's I was like more Stockholm syndrome.

• 13:28Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah, sorry, not Munchausen, uh Stockholm syndrome because like they still wanted to carry out like their, his father's plans at the funeral. They talked about what a great man their father was and like

• 13:39Speaker 02

  It's like they were still hunting for that approval even after he was gone.

• 13:44Bunnie XO?

  Yes.

• 13:45Speaker 02

  That's truly what it was. It's like, what would my dad think right now?

• 13:49Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, would he be happy with me?

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yes, would he be happy with what I'm doing? Would he be happy with that? And to give you guys perspective on Lyle and Eric, Lyle was the older one and he was a very dominant out of the two. Eric, I feel like was just stuck in this like

• 14:04Bunnie XO?

  Little boy.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  Little boy innocent.

• 14:06Bunnie XO?

  So sweet.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  While Lyle was very pushed forward, very aggr- he was the aggressor of the two.

• 14:12Bunnie XO?

  He's the first born. He was the first born. He was the first abused and he was kind of like the protector.

• 14:17Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 14:18Bunnie XO?

  And poor Eric, you know, just was this little, just this little nugget.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I was gonna say nugget. So I see Lyle being the one after the deaths to pursue these businesses and he's, he's carry on life like his parents never died.

• 14:34Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Like they're on vacation or something.

• 14:36Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah, like weekend at Bernie's and shit.

• 14:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:39Bunnie XO?

  Um, they also enlisted a meeting with a writer to do a book on their father about what a great man he was as well as we're talking about going into politics because that's what they had said their father was planning on doing.

• 14:53Speaker 02

  It's like he's becoming his father.

• 14:55Bunnie XO?

  That's exactly what they said. They said that he, that Lyle literally stepped into the shoes of his father and like took his father's place.

• 15:01Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 15:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Lyle also was the one who spent a lot of time at his parents' gravesites. And that to me kind of shows maybe remorse.

• 15:11Speaker 02

  Empathy, yeah. It's like, he does feel bad in a sense, but

• 15:19Speaker 02

  We'll get to that.

• 15:21Bunnie XO?

  Says Lyle read a letter at the funeral from his father and was said to start becoming and acting like his father. He became extremely calm and cool. They both handled the deaths of their parents differently, Eric becoming withdrawn and quiet. So Eric, you know, has, Eric is more of a sensitive soul.

• 15:42Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 15:43Bunnie XO?

  And he internalizes everything. He also suffers with severe depression. He also has a lot of mental, um, you know, uh, health, mental health issues and, um, you know, whereas Lyle probably was just in survival mode.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  All the time.

• 16:04Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, it was just, I feel like Eric was more in that fawn mode and Lyle was in fight or flight.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. All the time. His cortisol levels must be insane.

• 16:13Bunnie XO?

  Literally. Well, now I'm sure I have a hope and pray that they're better, but yeah. For what those boys had to go through, absolutely. And they just both took on the pain way differently.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  Exactly. And, and that just goes to show you can go through, both can go through something similar within a house. And you as a person is going to deal with that trauma in such different ways.

• 16:35Bunnie XO?

  Yes. So, you know, Lyle becoming this strange interpretation of his business like father. He even hired bodyguards saying he feared for his life.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  From the mob.

• 16:47Bunnie XO?

  From the mob. Because he was like really playing into his alibi, quote unquote, that he had. And, you know, whatever. I mean, they had the money, so he probably was just fucking squandering it. So they went shopping and started buying each other lavish gifts. Eric, who was a, like, a really good tennis player, hired a tennis coach for like fifty thousand a year, which back in eighty-nine, fifty thousand dollars. It's crazy. You could buy a house for like fifty thousand to a hundred thousand back then. Um, Eric said it was all to cover up not wanting to be alive. He said that the only reason he didn't kill himself was because he didn't want to be a disappointment to his father.

• 17:26Speaker 02

  Oh, again, just trying to like live out this, like, Childhood, something. I I don't even know how to put that into words, but more like they truly believed that their father wanted these things from them.

• 17:40Bunnie XO?

  It also goes to show that when you are abused by somebody, you still love them and you still want that attention, that affection and that acknowledgement from them.

• 17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's often like, you know, people, why did you stay with your abuser? Like, why are you still in a relationship with him? This goes to show that

• 17:58Bunnie XO?

  Trauma bonds.

• 17:59Speaker 02

  Trauma bonds, it can happen with siblings, it can happen with relatives, it can happen with significant others, it can happen with parents. And this is one of those situations.

• 18:08Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, exactly. Lyle has gone on the record to even say that he didn't enjoy being considered a a playboy and that it was just all a facade to, you know, cover up what they had done. So during all of this, um, Eric had ended up getting in trouble for burglary while his parents were alive. And the court ordered him to go to a therapist. Enter Dr. Ozil, and that's who Eric started going to. Um,

• 18:41Bunnie XO?

  that doctor never made Eric feel safe because Jose told Dr. Ozil, everything that my son tells you, you need to tell me and you need to sign this affidavit saying that you will. So Eric knew that he couldn't confide in this doctor at all and never once confided in this doctor about the abuse, never said anything.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  It's wild. He has to go to them for robbery, but you know, let's forget about all the abuse.

• 19:08Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, let's, let's forget about all the, let's forget why I robbed people.

• 19:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:13Bunnie XO?

  So after the deaths, the deaths were just too heavy on Eric and he was just like, I've got to get this out of me. So he goes and he sees none other than Dr. Ozil. And when he sits down with Dr. Ozil, he's, you know, really nervous, really agitated because he's pretty much suicidal at this point. And he goes and tells Dr. Ozil, hey, let's take a walk because he was afraid that the session was being recorded.

• 19:41Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 19:42Bunnie XO?

  And in that walk, he confides to the doctor that he killed, that him and Lyle committed the murders of his family.

• 19:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:52Bunnie XO?

  So Dr. Ozell does not take this upon himself to go to the police and tell the police. He looks at this as like a perfect blackmail moment. Just a disgusting human.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:04Bunnie XO?

  You know, I mean, would you expect any less from somebody who was in business with the dad, you know? Um, so instead he has a side bitch named Jutalon Smith, who he decides to confide in and tell like, hey, Eric and Lyle Manitas just confessed their murders to me. I need you to come sit in in one of the sessions and kind of eavesdrop in the waiting room. So he had Jutalon come in, sit in one of the sessions outside and like with her ear up against the door or whatever, sitting in the waiting room. And he immediately gets on tape these confessions because he wants to have something to hold over the boys' heads.

• 20:45Bunnie XO?

  For obviously for monetary reasons. And by the way, Dr. Ozell's license during this time was already suspended. I don't think anybody knew that, but he just wasn't a great character. He wasn't a great human.

• 20:57Speaker 02

  Horrible man.

• 20:57Bunnie XO?

  Literally took advantage of these boys because.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  In their most vulnerable states.

• 21:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, like in their multiple vulnerable moments, you know? Eric has said that he admitted these deaths to Dr. Ozell because he was really wanting to kill himself and depressed.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  He didn't know where else to turn. Eric had, like you had already said, Eric internalizes everything while Lyle like projects it all in like, with money or with like, um, attention. And Eric is just so soft spoken. He's got, he's really got that Michael, um, Jackson. Where it's like he's stuck in that age where that abuse started and he didn't know how to do this. And I, I hate that the person that he felt most comfortable to turn to. And I know he thought the only reason he could turn to him is because like legally he couldn't go tell anyone. So like, I get that, but like, how sad is that? You had no one in your life you could confide to. And then you end up having to go to the worst person ever.

• 21:54Bunnie XO?

  I feel like his family would have had his back more than the fucking doctor did.

• 21:57Speaker 02

  I feel like they would have too because they seen it.

• 21:59Bunnie XO?

  They've been writing to them. So yeah, and we'll get into that too. During all of this, Dr. Ozell also confided in his wife, too. Not only did he confide in his side bitch, he confided in his wife. So there's two, now, now we've got three people who know about what's going on.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  He said he was confiding in them because he feared his life.

• 22:19Bunnie XO?

  Right, I was just getting into that. He said he also told his, both his wife and his mistress that Lyle had threatened his life, but still never went to police.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  Like, get out of here.

• 22:29Bunnie XO?

  Lyle has even gone on record to say like, that's absolutely false. I never threatened his life, you know, and if I did threaten his life, why didn't he just go to the police?

• 22:37Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 22:37Bunnie XO?

  He never went to the police. He literally was just like...

• 22:40Speaker 02

  Out for himself.

• 22:41Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, concocting this story just to try to definitely, probably blackmail. Well, lo and behold, good old side bitch Jutalon decides to get mad at Dr. Ozell, probably because he wouldn't leave his wife. But she said that he had kidnapped her and held her against his will, will and raped her. Which, we're not here to discuss any abuse that...

• 23:06Speaker 02

  It could have happened.

• 23:08Bunnie XO?

  Could have possibly happened, yeah. We're not here to speculate on what happened to Jutalon, but this was her reasoning for going to the police. And when she goes to the police, she's hysterical. She's like, oh my god, um, he raped me, he did this, he did that. Oh, by the way, he also has the Menendez brothers on record saying that they killed their parents. So this wasn't the first thing that she told the police. It was more about like, what's going on with her and like, how he did her wrong. And, you know, even the police back then didn't believe her, like, what was going on. But, when she said that he had these tapes of the boys, that's when the police's ears perked up.

• 23:45Speaker 02

  And you know, the police, I feel at that point are, like, and they kind of discussed this in that docu-series on Netflix, um, about how they feel like they're internalizing the fact they're not doing a very good job. And that could be, we don't, like, that's not actual proof. It's like, more of like Hollywood type stuff. But, this could be actually happening. These dudes could literally just be in such a rut, that it's like, they were willing to grasp onto any information that was coming out. Because, of course, they didn't test the son's hands.

• 24:10Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 24:11Speaker 02

  You know, so they have nothing, and they probably didn't do a very good scene, uh, very good job at the crime scene.

• 24:15Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. And by the way, his side bitch used to be one of his clients, which right there tells you another character defect of Dr. Ozell. You're not supposed to be, is that like a HIPAA violation?

• 24:26Speaker 02

  It is!

• 24:26Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, you're not like, supposed to date your clients, but whatever. So the police watching this from the sidelines was when it started to make the police kind of think like, hmm, something is not right. This is a motive here. So they start investigating and they discover where the boys had bought the guns in San Diego. So before the boys did the murders, and we're going to get into all of this because none of this comes out until they get on the stand, is that Lyle and Eric said that they feared for their lives because of their parents. Um, you know, there was a situation that happened, which we'll get into in a little bit. And Lyle and Eric felt like they needed to protect themselves. So they went down to San Diego.

• 25:08Bunnie XO?

  And I think they used like a cousin's ID or something and they bought two shotguns from a gun shop. So the police found out about that and that right there shows the murder weapons. March of 1990. Lyle is, this is almost a year later. Lyle is arrested by police and Eric turns himself in days later after returning from Israel. They are accused of first degree murder. So this is where it starts getting fucking hairy dude. Like it starts getting fucking crazy. Like, ah, you can't make this shit up. Like this is a fucking, this is literally a Hollywood movie.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 25:50Bunnie XO?

  Ryan Murphy knew what he was doing when he made that docu-series.

• 25:53Speaker 02

  Absolutely. And we talk about the fact that like he portrayed them and like the, the way that he put this together. I mean, it was a spectacular, Monsters is something like everyone should watch.

• 26:06Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. So let's, well, let's talk about it really quick before we get into all the details and stuff like that. So I don't know if you guys have seen all the hoopla online about Ryan Murphy's documentary about Lyle and Eric Menendez. I watched the documentary myself or the docu-series myself and I have to say, this is only my opinion. Everybody else is entitled to their opinions, but this is how I took the Ryan Murphy thing. First of all, Ryan Murphy is notorious for fucking American Horror Story. It's what he does. He does horror very well. And when I watched the docu-series, it fucking kept me glued to the screen.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  You couldn't look away.

• 26:52Bunnie XO?

  Could not look away. Could not look away. And I didn't realize how bad the abuse was. Until I watched that Ryan Murphy documentary. I think he captured the abuse that the boys went through. Absolutely amazing. What he did wrong was, and this is how, just my opinion. What he did wrong was he did not capture the emotion of these boys and the pain of these boys. And that's where he fucked up.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:24Bunnie XO?

  Had he have fucking incorporated that in that docu-series, it would have been received a way different way.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  Whole different way. You and I discussed this. I truly feel like he dehumanized them. And until you actually watch them as humans on tape, you have no idea. The emotions and the pain that these boys felt.

• 27:46Bunnie XO?

  What those boys went through dude, like, I don't think ever making fun or light of abuse is ever okay. And I think that, um, you know, these boys had the whole world laughing at them.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:00Bunnie XO?

  They were portrayed as these snotty little bratty pompous. You know, boys, and that's how the media covered them in the nineties. That's exactly how the media.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  People were making fun of them on like, um, news channels and like SNL and like things like that. Could you imagine?

• 28:18Bunnie XO?

  No. Could you imagine, you know, literally killing your parents and then the entire world just coming at you, not knowing all the facts and making fun of you and, you know, like she said, skits on SNL being made and stuff like that. So.

• 28:36Bunnie XO?

  Do I think Ryan Murphy, um, did a great job? Absolutely.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:41Bunnie XO?

  But I also think that he slipped up in that one area of just not showing empathy and capturing the boys' emotions and pain, which.

• 28:51Bunnie XO?

  Kind of is par for the course for Ryan Murphy. He's kind of like the Tim Burton of

• 28:55Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:56Bunnie XO?

  You know, like horror shit.

• 28:57Speaker 02

  And I don't think you can incorporate heartfelt moments so much into horror.

• 29:02Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 29:03Speaker 02

  So I get that. Like I get you. You did the best in your specialty and I by no means feel like it was a bad. It was literally, I'm obsessed with it. I could watch it again.

• 29:12Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 29:13Speaker 02

  But if you want to

• 29:15Bunnie XO?

  Dissect it.

• 29:16Speaker 02

  Yes. If you want to dissect it no more, please, please go watch the actual tapes.

• 29:22Bunnie XO?

  Well, go watch the actual tapes, but also watch the new documentary that just dropped with the boys and their own words.

• 29:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:28Bunnie XO?

  And I can understand why Eric and Lyle are upset because they've worked this hard to like get their shit reappealed and like, you know, to hopefully try to get free. And then here comes Ryan Murphy making them look like they did in the nineties. And that's gotta be hurtful. So I get that. I understand that. Alright, so let's, we got off track, but let's deep dive into what happens next after the boys are arrested. You want to go ahead memes?

• 29:53Speaker 02

  Yeah. March nineteen ninety, Lyle is arrested by police and Eric turns himself in days later after returning from Israel. So they're just living their normal lives, having no idea this mistress is out there snitching on them.

• 30:06Bunnie XO?

  Not really snitching on them. She was trying to snitch on Dr. Ozil and then was like, oh yeah, by the way.

• 30:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:11Bunnie XO?

  Like they didn't even care. It was so passe.

• 30:13Speaker 02

  Oh, it was awful. So.

• 30:15Bunnie XO?

  By the way, Eric was in Israel for a tennis competition.

• 30:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:18Bunnie XO?

  He could have just stayed gone.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, you didn't have to come back.

• 30:22Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, like you could, boy, you had a running start.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 30:26Bunnie XO?

  He only came back for his brother.

• 30:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, truly.

• 30:28Bunnie XO?

  They have like such a sweet bond.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it's just trauma bond too between those two. Um, Lyle has said that it was a staged arrest for the media circus. They, you know, had called the media to be ready to watch for the SWAT teams. Um, that right there shows me, and I had mentioned this earlier in this podcast about the police department. They really were trying to save their asses in this.

• 30:53Bunnie XO?

  Oh, absolutely.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  And the fact that you call media out to witness this, you could have easily probably knocked on the door and just been like, yo, bro.

• 31:01Bunnie XO?

  Well, when you find out later on who the judge was, you'll understand why they made this a media circus.

• 31:07Speaker 02

  Exactly. So it just to me, the whole thing just screams red flags. But then, you know, Lyle also has come out to say that he's was relieved to be arrested and that it's like you said, the cortisol levels in this circus that he's just portraying this person. It was probably like, whoa, I can kind of take off my mask right now.

• 31:27Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  I don't have to pretend to be this person and everyone he's surrounded himself in, his friends, everything like that. He had to be someone.

• 31:35Bunnie XO?

  Well, and holding in a lie like that.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 31:38Bunnie XO?

  And then can you imagine seeing your parents in that state over and over and over again and nightmares like I I just think that that would be super fucking heavy and just, you know, I couldn't imagine the relief of just being like, okay, let's fucking go.

• 31:55Speaker 02

  Yeah. And that's what Eric had. That's what turned Eric to going and confessing to his therapist was the a lot of the dreams.

• 32:01Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 32:01Speaker 02

  You know, he was daydreaming. He was having dreams and nightmares at night. Like it consumed his entire life, which I'm sure in a way it also did to Lyle, but Lyle didn't portray that.

• 32:12Bunnie XO?

  Right. So we're gonna fast forward to three years later.

• 32:15Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 32:16Bunnie XO?

  July of nineteen ninety-three is when they go on their first trial.

• 32:20Speaker 02

  So the Menendez brothers go on trial in LA courtroom. Um, each a separate jury in a trial that was televised on court TV.

• 32:30Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 32:31Speaker 02

  So.

• 32:31Bunnie XO?

  So I mean, that's already a fucking media circus. You know, these boys have been sitting in jail for three years. They reappear. And I mean, you see the iconic fucking when they walk in the courtroom like that is fucking iconic because these boys were attractive boys.

• 32:45Speaker 02

  That was it. They were really like the stereotypical hot nineties guys.

• 32:50Bunnie XO?

  They were the hot nineties guys and you know, people wanted to hate them, but then there was women who loved them, you know, as we're seeing with what's happening with certain serial killers now or you know, killers now.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  Same thing happened with Dahmer.

• 33:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 33:03Speaker 02

  He was hot, you know, and again, that that resurfaced here when they brought out his little docu-series thing. It was like, it resurfaced of this like craze women had um, towards like how hot he was.

• 33:16Bunnie XO?

  Yep. So prosecutors, whenever they opened up the arguments in the um trial was that they killed their parents for financial gain. They were looking for a motive and I'm sorry, this prosecutor was a cunt. Bitch. I can't stand her. I do not like her. Bro, if you watch the documentary, the new one that just dropped, not the Ryan Murphy one, but the the real prosecutor is in this one and she is a fucking turd. I don't like her. Like she's a terrible fucking human man, like. Like the ending of that, when she was talking, I was like. It's viral on TikTok. Is it? It's viral. Thank god, cancel her. Please, if there's anyone to cancel, it's her.

• 33:57Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I think she's retired now, but I mean, like, she's crazy. She even went on to say on this documentary, like, oh, yeah, so we're just gonna let them out of prison because TikTok. And by the way, TikTok, I'm armed. And it's just like, bitch. I got guns all over this place. These people on TikTok work, they will have your social security number on the dark web tonight. They will be tracking your every move on Twitter. Yeah, like she needs, like, I don't piss off the crazies on TikTok. No. Um, the brothers' defense admitted that they did kill their parents, but argued that they acted out of self-defense after years of emotional, psychological, and sexual abuse by their father. So this brings me to a point right here.

• 34:37Bunnie XO?

  When they first got arrested, they sat in jail for three years. And they stood by the fact that, yes, we killed our parents and we're just gonna take our lumps and go away. Nobody was gonna talk about the sexual abuse. They were forced to talk about the sexual abuse. What is that? Yep, they were forced to talk about the sexual abuse because um

• 35:04Bunnie XO?

  Eric and Lyle had been put in a, the the same housing unit. And Lyle used to write letters to Eric and.

• 35:16Bunnie XO?

  They had said, and we'll talk about this in a little bit, that the boys tried to have, uh, tried to escape from jail. And so they had to all of a sudden search their jail cells, right? Lies. Yeah, it was lies. But they searched Eric's cell, and when they searched Eric's cell, they found a letter from Lyle stating like, hey, I love you. I'm sorry for everything we've been through. You know, but listen, we're not gonna talk about what really happened. We're not gonna talk about what they did to us. We're not, you know, like, this was a heartfelt letter where he went in and was just telling Eric how much he loved him. And like, hey, we're just gonna go down in flames and just take our, you know, we're going, we're fucking gonna do it. Yeah. Which to me, that's fucking balls, dude.

• 36:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. That's straight up gangster. Yeah, absolutely. Like, how are you not gonna talk about what really fucking happened in your household? And once you guys find out what really happened in their household, if you don't know already, it's mind blowing that they were willing to go down with these secrets. I, I cannot imagine, I have full body chills right now, thinking back on this, because I just could not imagine having so much trauma that you don't even wanna talk about the trauma. Well, you don't wanna talk about it, and also, it's almost like you're still protecting your family. Exactly. It's like dad would be disappointed if we talked about that. That's how I like see it. And I'm like, bro, what did he do to you?

• 36:46Bunnie XO?

  And you know why Eric, I think I wrote it down later in the notes, but Eric said later on that he had kept the letter, because it was the first time Lyle had ever opened up to him about it, and it was special to him. And that just goes to show how sweet Eric is. They love each other so much. Like, they're, okay, anyways, we'll probably get in trouble for saying we're romanticizing murderers, but the, I just, I don't know. How can you not wanna cradle these boys after you hear this story? It's crazy. So, of course, you know, with the boys' looks, with their attitudes, all that stuff. Where their parent, who their parents. Who their parents were. They become an over, the case becomes an overnight sensation. They are like global, global, worldwide coverage.

• 37:30Bunnie XO?

  This was like our modern day, like Johnny Depp trial that everyone was talking about and everyone was watching.

• 37:39Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, no, it was crazy. So, so the jurors were selected. The jurors that were selected had read and followed the case through TV and newspapers. So they had already preconceived opinions about the boys.

• 37:51Speaker 02

  I hate that.

• 37:51Bunnie XO?

  How is that even fair? Like you have such a frickin' major case that people have been already following for three, three, four years at this point.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  Have decided their decisions for sure.

• 38:03Bunnie XO?

  Well, that and also it's like, that's not fair because you need people who really don't know what's going on to look at it from a fresh, you know, set of eyes. So Robert Shapiro was originally the boys' attorneys, which Eric and Lyle have gone on record to say that they feel like Robert Shapiro fucked them over. Robert Shapiro is actually the one that talked Eric into coming back from Israel. And when Eric could have just stayed in Israel, so.

• 38:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I didn't, I didn't know that. I had no idea he's the one that convinced him to come back. I thought his brother convinced him. That's wild.

• 38:40Bunnie XO?

  No, uh, Robert Shapiro, I'm sure it was a mixture of both, I'm sure, but you know, his brother was arrested. He's not being able to talk to his brother and then Robert Shapiro probably, you know, levied that to get him back. They definitely feel like Robert Shapiro fucked them over. So after they fired Robert Shapiro, they hired boss ass B, Leslie Abramson.

• 39:03Speaker 02

  That's my girl.

• 39:04Bunnie XO?

  I love her.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  That's my girl.

• 39:05Bunnie XO?

  No, I love her and she, you can tell, man, that woman went hard for these boys. Like she was the mom they always needed. Like she fucking protected these boys tooth and nail and she's the one who talked the boys into talking about their sexual abuse. Because Lyle was not having it. I think Eric was more like, okay, yeah, I'll do it, but as long as Lyle's okay with it. And then Lyle also, so Leslie was Eric's attorney.

• 39:34Bunnie XO?

  And then Lyle had um another attorney who I believe was, I think her name was Jill.

• 39:41Speaker 02

  If you guys have not seen Leslie, go look at a picture of her. She's got this like permed blonde hair, big, big hair. I'm just gonna paint a picture for you. She's skinny. She is chain smoking cigarettes outside the courtroom. It's just.

• 39:57Bunnie XO?

  She's from New York, like she doesn't take any shit.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  She is such a bad bitch.

• 40:02Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 40:02Speaker 02

  I adore her.

• 40:04Bunnie XO?

  So Lyle's attorney was Jill Lansing and then Eric's attorney was Leslie Abram- Abram- Abramson. I don't know, I have the hardest time with that. But um, isn't it crazy how the boys hired both women?

• 40:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:18Bunnie XO?

  Like, that just shows, like, they just want that motherly love.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  They were fucked over by the dude already and it just goes to prove to them, like, you know, no, we're gonna get women.

• 40:29Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, their mom was a piece of shit too.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, both of the parents failed them.

• 40:34Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, definitely. So um, in the case of Lyle and Eric Menendez who murdered their parents in nineteen eighty-nine, Shapiro arranged the surrender of Eric in nineteen ninety, who at the time of Lyle's arrest was in Israel for a tennis tournament. He later represented Eric during their first arraignment, until the defense handed it over to Leslie Abram- Abramson, who represented Eric until the brothers uh conviction. So, moving on from there, you know, you've got this huge global case, you've got these two badass women that are representing the boys, you've got handsome boys, handsome, rich boys that are just driving the world crazy. And then you have jurors who know what the fuck is going on.

• 41:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, this whole case is a mess.

• 41:20Bunnie XO?

  This whole case is a mess because the next part, and I'm gonna let you know why the next part um is so pertinent, the judge.

• 41:31Bunnie XO?

  Was the same judge, the judge that the boys got was the same judge that had ruled on the Rodney King case. So because of what happened with the Rodney King verdict, that judge already felt pressured to prove that the judicial system was upstanding and just. So these boys are literally walking in to just a lion's den.

• 41:52Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 41:53Bunnie XO?

  You know, and for everybody who's familiar with the Rodney King situation, when that judge ruled not guilty, LA was on fire.

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Literally rioting.

• 42:04Bunnie XO?

  Was rioting, getting burned down, like, nobody gave a fuck. You know, like it was fucking straight anarchy out there.

• 42:12Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 42:13Bunnie XO?

  And then here comes these two little white, rich boys who killed their parents into the same courtroom of the judge who just had set off the entire fucking Rodney King thing.

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 42:23Bunnie XO?

  How is that fair?

• 42:25Speaker 02

  That that judge should not be able to practice.

• 42:27Bunnie XO?

  He should have taken a year off.

• 42:29Speaker 02

  He's like, bro, okay, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go to Israel.

• 42:32Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, literally. Like, why are you still in the courtroom? Like, it's just crazy to me.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  That part of the, I didn't know that part until you had told me the other night and I was like, no freaking way.

• 42:42Bunnie XO?

  Yep.

• 42:42Speaker 02

  Like, it explains so much of like how this trial ended up happening.

• 42:47Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, it's crazy. But you wanna know what else is a fucking just crazy? Lyle's toupee.

• 42:55Speaker 02

  Toupee, man.

• 42:56Bunnie XO?

  Toupee or not toupee? That is the question.

• 43:00Speaker 02

  Oh, my gosh. So in the docu-series though on Netflix, they did a fantastic job portraying this toupee.

• 43:08Bunnie XO?

  Are you talking about, um, Ryan Murphy's?

• 43:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:11Bunnie XO?

  Yes.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:12Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. The toupee took on a life of its own in Ryan Murphy's docu-series, dude.

• 43:17Speaker 02

  Like, he's talking about, like, he's calling in his jail and he's like, I just need the tapes. I just need the tapes for my toupee. And he's got like little latches. Oh, my god.

• 43:27Bunnie XO?

  When you find out about the toupee, though, it's actually the most sad, sad, tragic

• 43:31Speaker 02

  It is.

• 43:31Bunnie XO?

  story. I mean, this entire story fucking sucks. We haven't even gotten into all of it yet. We're just literally tip of the iceberg.

• 43:37Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 43:38Bunnie XO?

  That toupee, first of all, I didn't know it was a toupee.

• 43:41Speaker 02

  I had no idea.

• 43:43Bunnie XO?

  But then, when you look back, when they play old court shit, you can tell.

• 43:48Speaker 02

  There's a good separation.

• 43:50Bunnie XO?

  You can tell, it's not even blended.

• 43:53Speaker 02

  It's not, I was looking into the other night when I was watching that, and like the back, you can literally see it like sticking up. And I was like, that, I just thought that was a cowlick.

• 44:03Bunnie XO?

  Literally, like, nobody knew. And then fucking here's Eric with just luxurious curly locks.

• 44:08Speaker 02

  Ow.

• 44:10Bunnie XO?

  Poor, poor, uh, my, I got this shit into the shingle, man. Um, alright, so moving forward, I just had, we had to have a moment of silence for the toupee.

• 44:18Speaker 02

  Really, we did. And I mean, now if you guys look at pictures of him, he has just gone ahead and shaved his head.

• 44:24Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 02

  Good for you.

• 44:24Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah, good for you. Attaboy. Thanks, thanks for just embracing it.

• 44:28Speaker 02

  Yes, we love it.

• 44:29Bunnie XO?

  Uh, cause if he was still wearing the toupee though, I wonder if they get out if he wears the toupee, if he puts the toupee back on.

• 44:35Speaker 02

  No, he's, he's, he's, he's a bald, just majestic, he's rocking it.

• 44:41Bunnie XO?

  Just a bald, majestic unicorn.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 44:43Bunnie XO?

  Alright, alright, so. Diving into the boys' life stories, and this is where it all gets crazy.

• 44:52Speaker 02

  Like buckle up.

• 44:53Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, buckle up. Jose, the father, was born into a wealthy family in nineteen forty-four in Havana, Cuba, to an elite family of doctors and lawyers. So I mean, Jose was used to a certain lifestyle. He grew up with money, but he ended up losing everything during the revolution and him and his family became refugees and had to flee from Cuba, and they came from Cuba to America to rebuild. Um.

• 45:23Speaker 02

  But rebuilding at that kind of stature, you're kind of already starting to a little level up.

• 45:29Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I mean, it depends. Did his parents put money away? Did they have like a little nest? Or did they really come here with nothing and have to start from the ground up?

• 45:37Speaker 02

  It, yeah, but you still have skills, you know, you're gonna be able to utilize those in some way.

• 45:41Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Eric had said that his father had this unstoppable drive that you were either afraid of or pulled in by. I feel like that's me.

• 45:51Bunnie XO?

  I feel like I'm just like fucking you either like it or you don't. I understand how it feels to like be a hard worker, you know, and like just wanna accomplish it because. Sometimes I just wanna turn it off. Oh, I wish. Sometimes I'm just like, let's, let me just turn off my brain, but like that's not how that works. Literally. I work on my deathbed. It's crazy. Yeah, for sure. Kitty Menendez was glamorous, good-looking and fiery. They said she wanted to be in radio, theater, or have a career. So, you know, here's two people that are pretty driven, that know what they want, and somehow they have crossed paths and decided to make a family together. Jose became a huge, successful businessman by his forties, and he was head of RCA Records and Hertz,

• 46:35Bunnie XO?

  as well as managing Menudo, who later on, there is a documentary that's actually on Netflix right now, I think it's Netflix, Peacock, right now, where the lead singer of Menudo says that Jose Menendez did something to him too. I can't speak on it, I haven't seen that documentary, but I definitely wanna watch it. So, I mean, this is par for the course, and you have to understand, like, there's so much abuse here that has had witnesses, and everything still panned out the way it did. So, from the outside, it was a perfect all-American family. During this court case and trial, Dr. Ozil takes the stand, as well as Doodle On,

• 47:17Bunnie XO?

  and the minute those two hit the stand, it's a fucking circus. So, the Supreme Court had subpoenaed Dr. Ozil's confessions from the boys. And it was taking a lot longer than they had planned on it taking. Um, so during this time, that's whenever the boys were accused of trying to escape. So, that's when they found the letter, and in the letter, so in the seventeen-page letter that Lyle had written to Eric, Lyle was telling Eric that revealing the six secrets of the family would be like killing his family all over again, and he didn't wanna do that. Yeah. And Eric was supposed to destroy the letter, but because he didn't,

• 48:00Bunnie XO?

  prosecution now had hard evidence of a confession written by Lyle.

• 48:06Bunnie XO?

  So even though they were waiting on Dr. Ozil's tapes, they now had what they needed to convict the boys.

• 48:11Speaker 02

  But from the beginning, the boys never claimed innocence.

• 48:15Bunnie XO?

  No, they didn't.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  They didn't at all, but they still in court. Yeah, but still in court had to prove uh what type of murder it was. So just so you guys understand, they did not come into this being like, oh, we're innocent. We didn't do it. The mob still did it. No, these boys literally, yep, we did it.

• 48:32Bunnie XO?

  Yes, we did it, but we did it because of this.

• 48:35Speaker 02

  So this whole trial is based on what type of murder this is.

• 48:40Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, Eric has gone onto record to say, I felt terrible because my brother was expressing his pain and it was so dear to him that I just, I couldn't throw away the letter and in return it helped convict them. But not realizing that it was actually what is going to save them, you know? Like, I know it's taken thirty something years, but that letter right there is the reason why these boys are getting so much love and compassion.

• 49:09Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, it's their truth.

• 49:13Bunnie XO?

  And I, you know, I had in my notes here, just said, could you imagine being accused of killing your parents for money when you're harboring these horrific secrets? And you're both still not saying anything as you're being tried for the murder of your parents. Like, that's just crazy. That's just crazy to me.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I can't believe they kept that in and weren't gonna talk about it.

• 49:33Bunnie XO?

  I know. But luckily enough, Leslie, Ms. Abramson, was a fucking gangster. And she was like, she's super smart and she acted quick. She set the boys up with a defense expert to start trying to pull the real story of what had happened out of the boys. So enter in this defense expert who really needs these boys to open up and talk about what would happen. You would think that in the first session, they would just fucking just word vomit. No, they did not.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Of course not.

• 50:00Bunnie XO?

  They did not. The first session with the defense expert did not go as planned. He couldn't get anything out of Eric because he didn't trust him because of Dr. Ozil. So poor little Eric, you know, just has all these little secrets and. You know, just does not wanna open up because he's scared and doesn't trust anybody.

• 50:19Speaker 02

  Every man in his life has let him down.

• 50:21Bunnie XO?

  Literally. And then Lyle said that he would have rather have lost the trial than revisit what had happened.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Which I don't blame him.

• 50:28Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, no, poor Lyle, you know, like every, a lot of us sympathize with Eric just because he's such a sweet little baby. And like Lyle puts on this tough exterior, but at the same time, it's like, I think I'm a lot like Lyle too.

• 50:39Speaker 02

  I see the pain in Lyle a lot more.

• 50:41Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's just when you see these boys cry on the stand, it is fucking heart wrenching.

• 50:46Speaker 02

  And if you say that's fake, we have a difference in opinion.

• 50:48Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, for sure. Eric wouldn't open up and kept saying how great of a man his father was and wouldn't break. Like, so literally, you're sitting in front of a defense expert who's going to save your ass if you just start talking. And you're telling him that your dad is a great man. Like, tell me that's not programming.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  PTSD.

• 51:10Bunnie XO?

  Programming though too. Because he, you know, Jose drilled that into their heads, you know?

• 51:17Speaker 02

  Literally, he still feared for his life even though his abuser was gone.

• 51:20Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, no, it's just, it's so fucking sad. And that right there shows severe trauma.

• 51:26Speaker 02

  Yes. The, the fact that people couldn't see that is beyond me.

• 51:30Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. So they started calling family and family doctors in as witnesses because the boys just would not open up. And we're gonna play a lot of clips for you. I really think this is a different podcast than what we normally do. So we want you to hear it from these people's own words, um, instead of me quoting them because I really think that it's more, um, uh, for you to just hear is so important to me because, you know, me saying it, you don't get to hear the, the emotion that's coming from these people. But just to sum it up, before we go into all these clips is, so they all testified about physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotion.

• 52:15Speaker 02

  Okay, Chicago.

• 52:16Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 52:17Speaker 02

  It's like a bad cat.

• 52:18Bunnie XO?

  It's terrible. It sounds like Bussy.

• 52:20Speaker 02

  He did that in the pool area the other day and everyone was like, I'd never known he could bark.

• 52:25Bunnie XO?

  Oh, the dude barks loud and deep.

• 52:28Speaker 02

  Alright.

• 52:28Bunnie XO?

  Alright, they all testified about physical abuse, sexual abuse, emotional abuse. All witnesses of what these boys had gone through with horrific stories and yet nobody did anything to ever help those boys until now that their parents were already dead.

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:45Bunnie XO?

  Which to me, it's like, okay, maybe that everybody was scared of Jose and just didn't want to rock the boat. But at the same time, I'm sorry, but if I know my little niece or my little nephew is getting fucking hurt, I'm gonna step up and I'll take that kid myself. Fight me for it.

• 52:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 52:59Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 52:59Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 53:00Bunnie XO?

  No, there's no way. You don't just...

• 53:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I, in my head, I'm like, also, even if they tried, I, I don't feel like those boys would have willingly gone.

• 53:11Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Yeah. True. That's a good point, too. The only person who had anything nice to say about Jose Menendez was his secretary. And that's probably because he was fucking her.

• 53:23Speaker 02

  Fucking.

• 53:24Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Allegedly.

• 53:26Bunnie XO?

  Allegedly.

• 53:26Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You don't, you do not have this man's back worth shit. And if you do, he either like owes you money or was dicking you down.

• 53:35Bunnie XO?

  They couldn't find one character witness to say he was a good, a good human.

• 53:39Speaker 02

  That just shows. Oh, gross.

• 53:43Bunnie XO?

  So, starting out with the testi- with the, the testimonies of the people who came on, there was an aunt that testified that at two years old, Jose would hang the young boys from a super high bar until they couldn't hang anymore. So like, imagine being two years old, being put up on this bar and you're just sitting there, being hung. Two years old. You have no muscle. You have no, like, nothing. And when the boys would start crying, he would beat them. He would hit them and tell, and tell them, like, why are you crying? Stop crying and I'll let you down. And then would hit them. Do it again. Put them back up on the-

• 54:17Speaker 02

  I might cry during this podcast, guys.

• 54:18Bunnie XO?

  No, literally, like, and this is at two years old.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 54:21Bunnie XO?

  You know? Um, and then he, so he would do that to Eric, and then he would do that to Lyle, and Lyle wouldn't cry, so he would pin the boys against each other. So Lyle always had to be the tough one, you know? So he would be like, "Oh, Eric, why can't you be like your brother?" You know, and like, just literally just fucking berate these fucking boys. And this is at two and three years old, or however far apart they are. So, um, the first cousin who actually has passed away, his name is Andy Cano. He went on the stand, and he talks about how he found a jar of Vaseline in thirteen-year-old Eric's room, and we're gonna hear that testimony now.

• 54:55Speaker 03

  I believe I was around eleven years old. It's the best I can do.

• 55:00Speaker 04

  Okay, so if you're eleven, then Eric's about thirteen and a half to fourteen?

• 55:04Speaker 03

  Right. When we went back to his room, I remember seeing, uh, a jar of Vaseline. Well, I didn't know what it was used for, or what it was then, but I figured it was a type of ointment that you put on scratches and so on.

• 55:20Speaker 04

  Okay, so did you, did you try to use it for your scratch?

• 55:23Speaker 03

  I picked it up, and Eric immediately told me to put it back down.

• 55:27Speaker 04

  Okay, did he say anything else about it?

• 55:29Speaker 03

  No, he didn't. He just said, "Don't touch it."

• 55:33Speaker 04

  Well, did you explain why you wanted to use it?

• 55:37Speaker 03

  Yes, I told him I was just gonna put it on my scratch.

• 55:40Speaker 04

  And did he tell you anything about that?

• 55:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, he said, "That's not what it's for." Uh, he was actually trying to find out if any of these massages were normal. And I, my response to him was that I wouldn't know. I didn't have a father around, my parents were divorced then. Well, he told me his father was massaging his dick.

• 56:03Speaker 04

  He used that word?

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Yes, he did. Knew from, uh, recent talks with Eric that he was suicidal. And that's what I was worried about, I was worrying about him. And, uh, I remember, uh, one time on the airplane, he locked himself in the bathroom for about an hour. It seemed to me like an hour. I was waiting and waiting and waiting for him to come out. And I went and knocked because I was very worried about what he might have done in that bathroom.

• 56:29Speaker 05

  Did you believe at that time that he was having a guilty conscience about killing his parents?

• 56:34Speaker 03

  I didn't believe anything. I just believed that I was very worried about him.

• 56:38Speaker 05

  Your cousin was a good friend of yours, right?

• 56:41Speaker 03

  Yes, he was. And is.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  So, this is just goes to show. People knew about this.

• 56:50Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. This is, this is just the beginning, so...

• 56:52Speaker 02

  And it's a kid that knows about it too, which makes me feel bad for all the people he did confess this to, because they don't know how to handle that.

• 57:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, so this is his cousin. And what he's talking about is Eric confessed to him that his dad was massaging his penis and with, and with the vaseline that was in his room. This is being testified in court. You know, Eric's, how old did he say, 13? Right now? So, they don't even know how long this abuse has been going on. They just literally knew bits and pieces.

• 57:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:23Bunnie XO?

  Next up is Lyle and Eric's aunt, who is talking about the signs of sexual abuse. And she's testifying in front of the courtroom for everybody to hear.

• 57:35Speaker 06

  Well, I had to go to Kitty and Jose's room because it then got to be very late. It was going, it was originally like around 6:00, 6:30. And it now was getting on to be 7:30, 8 o'clock. And I was extremely hungry. It's been a long day. And I knocked on Kitty's door of their room. And Kitty was in the room, but there was no Jose. And she said that he was down in Eric's room.

• 57:57Speaker 07

  Did Eric have a room in the same hotel?

• 57:59Speaker 06

  Yes, he did. If I can remember right, it was like around two to three rooms down from their room.

• 58:05Speaker 07

  So she told you that Jose's in Eric's room?

• 58:08Speaker 06

  Correct.

• 58:08Speaker 07

  What happened then?

• 58:10Speaker 06

  She then said that we had to wait until Jose came out of Eric's room before we could go to dinner, so...

• 58:15Speaker 07

  Did you wait in her room or returned to your room?

• 58:17Speaker 06

  No, I went back to my room.

• 58:18Speaker 07

  And did you subsequently get information that Jose was now back?

• 58:23Speaker 06

  What had happened was I had to go there one more time. I, I went back to her room and said, you know, Kitty, it's really getting very late. Why don't we just go down to eat? And she said, no, no, it'll only be a few more moments. Jose should be coming out of his room.

• 58:36Speaker 06

  And how much time before Jose did come out of Eric's room? If I can remember right, it was like around 8:30, a quarter to 9:00. And what happened then? We then were walking down the hallway and- When you say "we"... Oh, I'm sorry. It was Kitty, myself, Brian, and Jose, the four of us. And what happened then was we said we would like to go in and see Eric to at least tell him that we thought the game was very well. We were sorry that he lost. Jose made fun of that, but as we were out there in front of the room, he said, "Well, okay, Eric is in his room, and he will not be coming to dinner with us." So he opened the room and as he- Who opened the room? Jose did. Did he have a key? Yes, mhm.

• 59:17Speaker 06

  And when he opened the room, he... we looked in, and it was a short hallway like you would have like in a Holiday Inn or something like that. We then... I looked in the room, and it was very dimly lit, and Eric was in bed. How did he look? He looked very sad, and you could tell something was wrong with him, okay? He didn't want to speak to us, and I was gonna go over and give him a hug, and I was told that I shouldn't do that, that Eric just didn't want people to hug him.

• 59:49Bunnie XO?

  So, this is an aunt testifying that she's witnessing weird behaviors, and apparently, you know, from a very young age, these boys were allowed to be alone with their dad, locked on whatever floor he decided to choose, and Kitty, the mother, would make sure that nobody went on the floors and would never go in the rooms to see what Jose was doing with these boys. The mom knew. Of course the mom knew. The mom knew. The mom is a fucking scallywag. It's just disgusting what she's allowed these boys to have to go through. Yes. There's just so much. It's just... it's just really, really terrible.

• 1:00:36Bunnie XO?

  So, one of the boy's cousins testified that he found a container of human feces under Lyle's bed. Lyle explained to him that he would be too scared to go to the bathroom. Sometimes when he was being punished, he wouldn't be allowed to leave his room to go. He also wet the bed until his very late teen years, which is a very, very big sign of abuse.

• 1:00:54Speaker 02

  Huge sign of abuse with the bed wetting.

• 1:00:58Bunnie XO?

  Eric was molested and raped from around the ages of six years old, all the way up until he was 18 by Jose. His family witnessed how he became extremely distressed at any meal that he ate when he couldn't eat lemon or ketchup with it. He put lemon and ketchup on his food as he found it diminished the taste of his father's semen that he would be made to swallow.

• 1:01:24Speaker 02

  This makes me wanna cry.

• 1:01:26Bunnie XO?

  Is that not fucking insane?

• 1:01:27Speaker 02

  It makes me want to cry because the fact that these boys have had to live an entire life behind bars, but had already lived in their own personal hell is beyond me.

• 1:01:43Bunnie XO?

  It's disgusting. I mean, so Lyle was also molested from the time he was six until I believe 14. So Jose started molesting both of the boys around six years old. For some reason, it stopped with Lyle and I think it's because Lyle put up a fight.

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Yeah. I think he would be scared that Lyle would say something. Eric was so much more of like someone he could dominate and Eric and Lyle was just so hard headed that if he continued to do that, I bet you Lyle would have said something.

• 1:02:13Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, absolutely. Family members testified that when Jose was with one or both of the boys in the bedroom or in the shower with them, you were not under any circumstances allowed on the same floor of the house with them. You weren't allowed to check what was going on and no one was allowed to see the boys straight after. One of the family members tried to tell the boy's mother Kitty what was going on and it turns out she knew the entire time and Kitty called her a liar. This woman Kitty is just a fucking nightmare. Let's talk about Kitty really quick because there is a bunch of things that I would like to say about Kitty that I have. Kitty literally let these boys just get molested because she was literally...

• 1:03:02Bunnie XO?

  She hated her sons. She has gone on record um to therapists and said she feels like her sons ruined her life. Um she hated being a mother. She didn't like it. She was physically and sexually abusive with the boys also. And here's a couple of facts about Kitty. So Kitty didn't just enable what was happening to her sons, but she participated in their abuse, both physically and sexually. She had Lyle sleep in the same bed as her, um and had him touch her till he was the age of 13.

• 1:03:39Speaker 02

  What the fuck?

• 1:03:40Bunnie XO?

  And sometimes further than that age. Her own son touching her inappropriately anywhere. And Lyle, while recounting the events in trial, testified she loved it.

• 1:03:51Speaker 02

  That is so sick. That, mm.

• 1:03:56Bunnie XO?

  Like, how do you, nah, you got one parent that's a fucking complete just Satanist, like just disgusting devil.

• 1:04:02Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:04:03Bunnie XO?

  But then you've got the wife who's a devil too? Like, how does that work that you find two pieces of shit that just fucking fall in love with each other?

• 1:04:10Speaker 02

  I mean, they are together because they're the same human.

• 1:04:14Bunnie XO?

  Ugh.

• 1:04:15Speaker 02

  It is disgusting that anyone, anyone at all would do anything involving a child, let alone your own child.

• 1:04:23Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:25Bunnie XO?

  On several accounts, she told people, most notably her therapist, she hated her children. They ruined her life, happiness, and her marriage. She would lock them in cupboards to do their homework because they were terrible in school due to their abuse and wouldn't give them food or water for hours.

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  The abuse just keeps getting worse.

• 1:04:45Bunnie XO?

  Oh, we haven't even cracked the freaking seal.

• 1:04:47Speaker 02

  I know, we're like just at the beginning of this and like, if you guys by the end of this don't understand, like, why we feel the way we feel, it's crazy to me.

• 1:04:57Bunnie XO?

  Lyle also testified that his mother would beat him, kick him, and drag him around by his hair, considering he was already losing his hair due to immense stress at such a young age. So that is why Lyle had to wear a toupee because of all the abuse that was going on in the house. It was stressing him out that even in high school, he was in ninth grade, losing his hair because he was so stressed out because he was internalizing so much.

• 1:05:24Bunnie XO?

  Eric testified that his mother sexually violated him and would often walk around the house naked or semi naked in his presence when Jose or Lyle wasn't around. Fucking gross, man.

• 1:05:34Speaker 02

  It's so disgusting.

• 1:05:36Bunnie XO?

  Like you're getting raped by your father and then your mom's doing weird shit too.

• 1:05:39Speaker 02

  I don't like it. Not only did they bring forward family members who are like, hey, this is what we have personally witnessed in all of this. Um, we also had a doctor testify that seven year old Eric had a medical record of SA. So this had already been looked into and no one helped him.

• 1:06:01Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, there was a doctor that literally said the back of, was it Eric's throat or Lyle's?

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Eric's.

• 1:06:06Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, the back of Eric's throat was injured so badly that it could have only been done by sexual abuse. Like, why did nobody step in right then and take those fucking kids?

• 1:06:19Speaker 02

  And this doctor went on trial for these boys and admitted this and showed like, like that is proof.

• 1:06:28Bunnie XO?

  Awful. Jose ruled with an iron fist. He literally kept that house so scared that even one time he, the family dog, he cut the dog's head off and put the dog's head in a freezer and let Lyle and Eric see this dead dog's head in their freezer every day to just fucking scare them and intimidate them. And to teach them a lesson.

• 1:06:51Speaker 02

  Cause we talk about this, like, these boys being still so willing to protect their dad's honor. Imagine having your life threatened that much that you are literally afraid to live. And like, that, I don't know, that just, these boys literally became stuck.

• 1:07:14Bunnie XO?

  No, they, they were literally just beaten little puppies.

• 1:07:17Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:18Bunnie XO?

  And, you know, you, you raise a child in the jungle, they're gonna act like a monkey, right? Like these. Kids never had childhoods. They literally were getting molested and raped by age six. And that's all they knew. It got to the point where Eric liked it.

• 1:07:36Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:36Bunnie XO?

  Because he didn't know that it was wrong.

• 1:07:38Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:07:38Bunnie XO?

  And he testifies that and you guys will hear that from his own mouth.

• 1:07:42Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:07:42Bunnie XO?

  You know, like, it's fucking disgusting.

• 1:07:44Speaker 02

  If you literally birth a child and tell it that the sky is purple.

• 1:07:49Bunnie XO?

  They're gonna believe you.

• 1:07:50Speaker 02

  They are going to, until the day they die, probably tell everyone around them, no. That sky is purple. You guys are the crazy ones. You guys think it's blue. I know it's purple.

• 1:08:00Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, my mom and dad told me so. Yeah, when they did the search of the house, um, Jose would take naked photos of both of them and would crop their faces out. So there would only be pictures of them from the neck down. And he kept those photos in their home. And the mom's kitty's handwriting was found on the front of the envelope that they were kept in.

• 1:08:26Bunnie XO?

  It's so bad. It's just so bad. Like, all of it is just so fucking disgusting, dude. So here's the doctor testifying, um, about Eric having medical record of sexual abuse.

• 1:08:41Speaker 08

  Dr. English, have you had access to certain medical records of Eric Menendez?

• 1:08:47Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 1:08:47Speaker 08

  Did you see any indication in Eric Menendez's medical records of an injury to his throat area?

• 1:08:59Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 1:08:59Speaker 08

  It indicated that there was an injury to the throat of Eric Menendez sometime in 1977.

• 1:09:06Speaker 09

  Yes, the direct quote is posterior pharynx, uvula, and soft palate.

• 1:09:11Speaker 08

  The report of injury in that medical record, could that be caused by child sex, in your opinion?

• 1:09:19Speaker 09

  Yes.

• 1:09:20Speaker 08

  Do you have any opinion as to what type of child sex could have resulted in that particular complaint?

• 1:09:26Speaker 09

  Uh, oral copulation.

• 1:09:27Bunnie XO?

  That's the doctor on the stand confirming that this little boy has an injury from a penis in the back of his throat.

• 1:09:34Speaker 02

  Yes. No one thinks to even bat an eye at that?

• 1:09:39Bunnie XO?

  It's just, it's so frustrating. This entire case is beyond.

• 1:09:46Bunnie XO?

  Fucking frustrating because nobody helped these boys.

• 1:09:49Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:09:50Bunnie XO?

  The judicial system failed him, his family failed them. Everybody failed these boys.

• 1:09:56Speaker 02

  And when we get to the, the jury and how like this trial goes on, it makes me sick to my stomach to see how they voted within the trial. And like you were literally given all of this evidence. There's more. We're like, we're still getting into it, you guys.

• 1:10:13Bunnie XO?

  There's so much and like, we're not even going to be able to cover how much evidence. Like if you, like, if you have not already, go down this fucking wormhole.

• 1:10:21Speaker 02

  Yes, please do.

• 1:10:23Bunnie XO?

  It's crazy.

• 1:10:23Speaker 02

  Please do.

• 1:10:24Bunnie XO?

  So next we're going to hear from Eric talking about being molested by his father.

• 1:10:30Speaker 10

  I hid from him. I, uh, I put cinnamon in, uh, his drinks and his coffee and his tea.

• 1:10:37Speaker 04

  Why did you put cinnamon in his drinks?

• 1:10:40Speaker 10

  Well,

• 1:10:42Speaker 10

  at the time, uh, I was in seventh grade and I had a group of kids, uh, friends of mine that were really involved. And they weren't involved, but they talked a lot about sex and it made me very uncomfortable. Um, so I would sort of shy away and just listen.

• 1:10:59Speaker 04

  What did you hear that led to putting cinnamon in your father's drinks, if anything?

• 1:11:04Speaker 10

  I heard that it, uh, made it taste better.

• 1:11:09Speaker 04

  It made what taste better?

• 1:11:11Speaker 10

  Uh, his semen.

• 1:11:13Speaker 04

  And so you did it so it would taste better?

• 1:11:15Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:11:17Speaker 04

  Now, was it at some point after you were 11 years old that you developed a rather peculiar eating habit?

• 1:11:27Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:11:27Speaker 04

  But did you think it was peculiar?

• 1:11:30Speaker 10

  No.

• 1:11:30Speaker 04

  Okay. That's my work?

• 1:11:33Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:11:34Speaker 04

  What did you do?

• 1:11:36Speaker 10

  I, uh, I used a lot of lemon in my food.

• 1:11:39Speaker 04

  And what do you mean by used a lot of lemon? What are we talking about here?

• 1:11:43Speaker 10

  Well, in essence, I would put the lemon in the bowl first and then put whatever I was going to put in the bowl. Um, like fish or rice or whatever. Sometimes I'd just pour the lemon over the food if it was already on the plate. But otherwise I would, I would just dry my food in lemon.

• 1:11:59Speaker 04

  All of your food?

• 1:12:01Speaker 10

  Soup, the meat, chicken,

• 1:12:06Speaker 10

  the fish, the rice, uh, pretty much.

• 1:12:11Speaker 10

  Everything.

• 1:12:13Speaker 04

  So would you consume a large quantity of lemon every week?

• 1:12:16Speaker 10

  Every day.

• 1:12:18Speaker 04

  And when you're eating all this lemon, did you notice it had any effect on your sense of taste?

• 1:12:26Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:12:27Speaker 04

  What would happen?

• 1:12:29Speaker 10

  Uh, I wouldn't taste as much.

• 1:12:32Speaker 04

  You wouldn't taste as much of your food?

• 1:12:36Speaker 10

  I did it for a specific purpose, but it didn't, it didn't seem to work all that well.

• 1:12:42Speaker 04

  What was the purpose for which you were doing it?

• 1:12:44Speaker 10

  So that I wouldn't have to taste, um, uh, my dad's, uh...

• 1:12:49Speaker 04

  Okay. Uh, let me ask you something. Where did the lemon come from? Did you go and buy it for yourself?

• 1:12:56Speaker 10

  The ide- where the idea come from?

• 1:12:58Speaker 04

  No, no. Where did the actual lemon that you're putting on everything come from?

• 1:13:01Speaker 10

  Oh, from my mother.

• 1:13:03Speaker 04

  And would your mother, uh, did she ever run out of lemon?

• 1:13:07Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:13:08Speaker 04

  And would she be concerned about that?

• 1:13:09Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:13:11Speaker 04

  So did she make it a point of trying to always keep you supplied with lemon?

• 1:13:14Speaker 10

  She kept stocks of lemon.

• 1:13:16Speaker 04

  Did mother ever ask you why you were drowning all of your food in lemon?

• 1:13:21Speaker 10

  No, it was a big joke in the family, um, and the relatives and so on, but no one ever asked me why.

• 1:13:26Speaker 04

  She never asked you why?

• 1:13:27Speaker 10

  No.

• 1:13:36Bunnie XO?

  It's terrible. Like, it's really just terrible what these boys have gone through. I just couldn't imagine knowing that my sons are literally drowning their food in lemon because they don't want to swallow my husband's cum.

• 1:13:52Bunnie XO?

  You know she knew.

• 1:13:53Speaker 02

  Oh, she absolutely knew. There's nothing in my mind that would ever tell me that she didn't know exactly what was going on.

• 1:14:01Bunnie XO?

  Here's Lyle talking about the abuse in his words.

• 1:14:03Speaker 11

  My mother was mostly the one that, uh, would explode about the bedwetting, or would punish me about the bedwetting. Sometimes she would rub my face in the sheets. She refused to change the sheets. I'd sleep on the floor.

• 1:14:18Speaker 07

  Until how old?

• 1:14:20Speaker 11

  Fourteen. Say you're sissy like your brother. He'd just be totally disgusted. Didn't want to talk to me.

• 1:14:31Speaker 11

  Sometimes we'd skip practices if I was, my mom had said that I wet my bed. I would get beaten for it.

• 1:14:39Speaker 07

  Were you ever taken to a doctor?

• 1:14:41Speaker 11

  No.

• 1:14:45Speaker 11

  I was very embarrassed and I believed that it was a big flaw. And, uh... I was trying desperately to not do it.

• 1:14:58Speaker 12

  We were in the kitchen one morning and he started getting, Lyle started getting yelled at by Jose and Kitty, saying he was a sissy and a baby because he had wet his bed. And, and he started being called, they were calling him names and, and getting mad at him. That's all I know. I left.

• 1:15:19Speaker 07

  Why'd you leave?

• 1:15:21Speaker 12

  Why stay? I went downstairs to my room.

• 1:15:24Speaker 07

  What did Lyle look like?

• 1:15:26Speaker 12

  Scared.

• 1:15:28Speaker 07

  How old were you when you started noticing that you were losing some hair?

• 1:15:36Speaker 11

  I think fourteen.

• 1:15:39Speaker 07

  And did you, did some people tease you about it?

• 1:15:44Speaker 11

  Yes.

• 1:15:45Speaker 07

  And who is it that teased you about it?

• 1:15:49Speaker 11

  Uh, mostly tennis coaches.

• 1:15:55Speaker 11

  Occasionally someone at school would say something about it. I was losing very little hair, but still was disturbing to me.

• 1:16:03Speaker 07

  Did you get a hairpiece then?

• 1:16:04Speaker 11

  Yes.

• 1:16:05Speaker 07

  And are you wearing it today?

• 1:16:08Speaker 11

  Yes.

• 1:16:10Bunnie XO?

  So that was Lyle talking about the abuse and then they put in another family member who had witnessed the abuse also. I mean, like this, we're talking like hours and hours and hours of testimony and people and family members who literally are coming forward saying, yes, these boys are not lying. Like, these are all situations that have happened. So the courts had all of this.

• 1:16:36Speaker 02

  Confessions of them, from, from them. You had doctors, you had relatives. You had everyone you could possibly imagine, therapists, and still...

• 1:16:47Speaker 02

  These somehow jurors are looking at it with their preconceived notions. And just making these decisions based off of. What? How they felt personally?

• 1:17:00Bunnie XO?

  It's just crazy. Kitty actually went on record um to her therapist as saying that she was hiding sick and dark family secrets. Like this is the mother saying this to therapist and still. Nobody helped them. Kitty ripped off Lyle's hairpiece in front of Eric who didn't even know that he had one. He had it. To cover his, the fact that his hair had been falling out. So like this family thrived on humiliation. And making these boys, just breaking them down, making them feel bad like. Eric didn't even know that Lyle was losing his hair. And Kitty rips it off in front of Eric to just humiliate and embarrass.

• 1:17:40Speaker 02

  They treated them like dogs.

• 1:17:42Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, no, it's, I mean, fuck. I feel like they're treating, people treat dogs better than fucking these children, you know?

• 1:17:49Speaker 02

  They treated them like these kids didn't have emotions.

• 1:17:52Bunnie XO?

  We're gonna play one more thing of Eric um talking about the abuse on stand and if you wanna keep deep diving, you are more than welcome to. There's just so, there's so little time and so much.

• 1:18:02Speaker 02

  This is in that new series that just dropped on Netflix. So if you guys wanna watch the actual tapes of the courtroom.

• 1:18:09Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  They just put all of it on Netflix. I highly, highly, highly recommend that you go watch that.

• 1:18:14Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, absolutely. So this will be the last one.

• 1:18:19Speaker 10

  She would say, what are you gay or are you not man enough for her? Uh, you're just not, you're just not a man enough person to be with her? Is this what, is this what your problem is? She would really uh.

• 1:18:33Speaker 10

  Get down on me.

• 1:18:34Speaker 04

  So she gave you the impression that she questioned whether or not you were gay?

• 1:18:39Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:18:40Speaker 04

  Mr. Menendez, did you ever question in your mind whether or not you were gay?

• 1:18:46Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:18:47Speaker 04

  And why was that, if you know?

• 1:18:50Speaker 10

  That's because I uh, I didn't. Understand what was happening with my father.

• 1:18:57Speaker 04

  And what do you mean you didn't understand it?

• 1:19:00Speaker 10

  In uh, California. It. It uh. I didn't understand why. It didn't hurt uh, so much and uh, anymore and.

• 1:19:15Speaker 10

  I didn't understand how. I just felt like I was having more friends because I had a car and I was able to play tennis with them. And I was a little bit more independent. And I felt like I was supposed to be stronger. And I would still be doing this with Dad. And I wouldn't scream at him or fight back with him. Because I was afraid, but I didn't. I still thought I should have. And I would still be able to have an orgasm.

• 1:19:51Speaker 04

  Okay, so those things, those factors, made you wonder if in fact maybe you were gay. Maybe that's why this is happening. Maybe that's why I don't resist. Maybe that's why it doesn't hurt. Is that what you mean?

• 1:20:01Speaker 10

  Yes. I didn't understand.

• 1:20:06Speaker 04

  And did these concerns about whether or not you were gay, did this bother you?

• 1:20:12Speaker 10

  Yeah, it was on my mind a lot. I, uh, it bothered me.

• 1:20:18Speaker 04

  Did you think it was wrong for somebody to be gay? Or was it just that you didn't know what you were?

• 1:20:23Speaker 10

  No, I didn't think I was wrong to think I was.

• 1:20:26Speaker 04

  You didn't understand my question. Do you think it was wrong for people to be gay?

• 1:20:31Speaker 10

  No.

• 1:20:32Speaker 04

  So, what was it?

• 1:20:34Speaker 10

  It was just that I was confused. And it was difficult for me. My mom made it seem like it was worse than death, uh, to be gay. And, uh, and I didn't think I was. I just, I didn't know. I really didn't understand.

• 1:20:55Speaker 04

  Did you like girls?

• 1:20:57Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:20:57Speaker 04

  Were you attracted to girls?

• 1:20:59Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:21:00Speaker 04

  And eventually, did you have intimate relationships with girls?

• 1:21:05Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:21:18Speaker 04

  You said your mom made it sound like the worst thing in the world. Did your father make gay jokes?

• 1:21:23Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  Did your father call you a particular name, associated, a negative name for gay people?

• 1:21:31Speaker 10

  Yeah, he called me a faggot.

• 1:21:32Speaker 04

  Did he call you that a lot?

• 1:21:33Speaker 10

  Yeah, he either called me a fag or a faggot, um, he used both of them. He hated gay people. And he absolutely refused to accept that what was happening between us. He just said that it wasn't any of that. He hated that.

• 1:21:55Speaker 04

  Without naming him, was there a relative on your mother's side of the family that was perceived by the family as being gay?

• 1:22:04Speaker 10

  He was gay.

• 1:22:05Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:22:06Speaker 10

  Well, we didn't know that, we just felt that he was.

• 1:22:09Speaker 04

  And how did your father talk about or treat that particular individual?

• 1:22:15Speaker 10

  He ridiculed him, made fun of him, talked a lot behind his back. Would say things like, "You don't wanna be," I don't wanna say his name, "you don't wanna be like this person."

• 1:22:27Speaker 10

  He would, one time I remember, Lyle bought the same color and same, same, basically the same type of shoe as this person was wearing. And he made fun of Lyle for the longest time for...

• 1:22:42Speaker 04

  For getting the same kind of shoes as the relative?

• 1:22:45Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:22:50Speaker 04

  Now, what did you think when your father, who is having sex with you, is taunting you with being gay?

• 1:23:01Speaker 10

  I was real confused. I didn't think that what Dad and I was doing was a gay thing. I thought it was just what Dad and I was doing. And, uh, but it made me real confused because it didn't hurt like I thought it should anymore. And so I didn't understand.

• 1:23:22Speaker 04

  When your father called you "faggot," did you ever answer him back in your head?

• 1:23:26Speaker 10

  Yes.

• 1:23:26Speaker 04

  What did you say?

• 1:23:27Speaker 10

  I said, "Well then, what the hell are you?"

• 1:23:31Bunnie XO?

  So, this poor kid doesn't even know if he's gay or not because he's been getting molested so much by his father since he was six years old.

• 1:23:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, this in all of this, you guys, they not only were forced to do ungodly things to their father, their father was doing ungodly things to them. And this included, you know, touching them down there and also forcing them to shove things and being sodomized. And it was with multiple different things. So not only was they, both of them were receiving such trauma from their father, forcing them to put things in there, forcing them to do things to them, that Lyle then went on to do the same thing to Eric.

• 1:24:20Bunnie XO?

  Which he testifies about that on the stand, um, and he talks about it and there's so much where Lyle holds it together, but the minute he talks about what he did to his brother, he breaks down crying and is, and says very audibly, "I'm so sorry." And Eric said that was the first time that his brother ever apologized to him.

• 1:24:40Speaker 02

  You can also see in that video Eric just like biting onto his knuckle, just with all his might and it's so sad to watch because you can watch the true pain in both of them come out. Um, that to me was like the breaking point of the trial. It truly to me, he, they both showed how human they were.

• 1:25:01Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. I mean, these boys really fucking bared their souls, dude. Like, they were just like, "Look, we fucked up, yeah, majorly, but this is why we fucked up." Eric has gone on to say in an interview that he misses his mother and wishes that he would not have murdered her. He craves that affection and love that he wanted from his mother so badly and he still wishes he could sit down with her and have a conversation.

• 1:25:25Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 1:25:25Bunnie XO?

  Even after all the abuse that she's put him through, he still just wants his mommy.

• 1:25:31Speaker 02

  They're lost little babies. Both of them never received any type of love from anyone.

• 1:25:38Bunnie XO?

  They don't know what love is like.

• 1:25:39Speaker 02

  They have no idea what love is like.

• 1:25:41Bunnie XO?

  They don't.

• 1:25:41Speaker 02

  At all. And it's so sad.

• 1:25:43Bunnie XO?

  No, it's so, so sad. And, um, they, Eric also says that it's more difficult with his father. Lyle also testified emotionally that the sexual abuse started at six years old as Lyle testified Eric starts bawling. Lyle said he told his mother about the abuse and her reply was he has to punish you and think when you do bad things.

• 1:26:05Bunnie XO?

  I hope fucking Kitty Menendez is rotting in hell.

• 1:26:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely. You're justifying the actions of your sick monstrous husband?

• 1:26:13Bunnie XO?

  Like you're fucking disgusting lady.

• 1:26:15Speaker 02

  You're just as awful as he is.

• 1:26:17Bunnie XO?

  No, you're disgusting. He then goes on to talk about how he started abusing Eric because of what was being done to him. When, when Lyle reveals this moment too, if you guys go watch the clip, the judge's face during this like, I don't know how the judge wasn't moved to tears because hi- his face was just like, like he could not soak in all of the shit that these boys had been through. You know, but anyways, so when Lyle did apologize to Eric on the stand, the entire courthouse was crying too.

• 1:26:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, you can't, I literally got over.

• 1:26:51Bunnie XO?

  You could hear a pin drop.

• 1:26:53Speaker 02

  Yes, I got so emotional at that point.

• 1:26:55Bunnie XO?

  And remember, this is all televised.

• 1:26:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:26:58Bunnie XO?

  So the world is watching this happen to these boys. So Eric had also tried to tell Jose to stop. You know, molesting him and Jose threatened Eric with a knife and told him that he would kill him if he told anybody or if the sex between them stopped. Eric also tried to leave and go to college. He was like, yeah, this is my out. I'm gonna finally get to go to Stanford. I'm gonna be away from my dad and Jose said, mm-mm, absolutely not. You're gonna go to UCLA and you're gonna live in this house because like, I believe like Jose was like in love with Eric.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that probably explains why the abuse went on for so long. Again, that goes back to what I said earlier. He felt like he had control over Eric while years before he had sort of lost control of Lyle.

• 1:27:46Bunnie XO?

  Yes. So you guys need to keep in mind that the deaths happened when Eric was eighteen. And.

• 1:27:55Bunnie XO?

  The reason why all these, the reason why these murders happened was because Lyle had no idea that Eric was still being molested.

• 1:28:04Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:05Bunnie XO?

  Lyle thought that it had stopped, just like it had stopped for him, and this is a family that clearly has zero communication with each other. And Lyle found out that it was happening, and when he found out that it was happening, he went to his dad and confronted his dad and said, "If you don't stop, I'm gonna go to the police." And Jose looked at him and said, "You listen to me. What I do with my son is none of your business." And so Lyle went to Kitty and was like, "Hey, do you know that this is still fucking going on?" And Kitty goes, "What, do you think I'm stupid?"

• 1:28:40Bunnie XO?

  Like, these boys had nobody to fucking protect them, bro.

• 1:28:43Speaker 02

  Nobody.

• 1:28:44Bunnie XO?

  Nobody. Nobody would help them. So, Lyle testified that they killed their parents because the dad would not stop molesting Eric, and they feared that the father would try to kill them because they had confronted them.

• 1:28:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:28:57Bunnie XO?

  Confronted him.

• 1:28:57Speaker 02

  They say that they went and got these guns out of protection.

• 1:29:02Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:29:02Speaker 02

  Because they knew at any point Jose was just going to lose.

• 1:29:07Bunnie XO?

  I mean, the dude cut a dog's head off and put it in a fucking fridge.

• 1:29:11Speaker 02

  They knifed to his son's neck.

• 1:29:13Bunnie XO?

  Literally.

• 1:29:13Speaker 02

  Like...

• 1:29:14Bunnie XO?

  He's put stuff inside of them.

• 1:29:17Speaker 02

  Of course, they're gonna fear for their lives.

• 1:29:19Bunnie XO?

  Like, they're totally scared of them, and I, what had sealed the deal was Kitty and Jose invited Eric and them out onto a yacht, and they couldn't understand, like, why they were being forced to go out on this yacht, and this entire trip, they thought that they were gonna be killed.

• 1:29:38Speaker 02

  They are so fucked up in the minds that they have totally convinced themselves, and they could maybe not be wrong.

• 1:29:45Bunnie XO?

  Right.

• 1:29:45Speaker 02

  These two could have hated their children their whole lives, that they truly could have been planning, we don't know, to like, maybe off them in an accident on the boat.

• 1:29:55Bunnie XO?

  Yep.

• 1:29:55Speaker 02

  Nobody actually knows.

• 1:29:57Bunnie XO?

  Here it is in their own words.

• 1:29:58Speaker 13

  Nothing about that trip made sense, and in context with everything else that was going on, crisis that was happening in the family, we shouldn't have been out there.

• 1:30:07Speaker 14

  Well, the story was that Mr. Menendez had a big deal that had gone through, and he was gonna go shark fishing.

• 1:30:13Speaker 13

  There was no fishing at all that I remember now. I mean, that was the whole reason we were there, but there wasn't many fishing going on, and so it was like there was this pretense. We were there for one reason, but we were there really for a whole nother reason.

• 1:30:29Speaker 14

  Basically, the deckhand and I did everything. None of the four came back. They really kind of acted like they didn't want to have any part of it. The family, they were estranged almost the whole time. It was a weird vibe just all around. As they came to the boat and we set sail off the dock, the boys moved up to the bow of the boat and the parents basically went down inside the boat into the back.

• 1:30:58Speaker 13

  I remember a lot of waves and the waves would crash over the boat and the water was cold.

• 1:31:05Speaker 14

  We actually took a wake over the bow and it got the boys soaked. And the boys just sat there. They didn't bother going back to get a towel or anything to go warm up with and they sat out there in the cold breeze basically, almost, you know, the whole trip.

• 1:31:22Speaker 13

  My mom was upset that there were more people on the boat than she anticipated. I guess she had only expected the boat captain to be there. And I remember thinking, "Why should she care?" The idea of being alone on the ocean with nobody around. I was nervous and paranoid for a good reason. To this day, I wonder what was supposed to happen that night. The boat ride just seemed endless. And I remember just being up there afraid. And so I just huddled up in front of the boat. My brother had a lot of questions. We talked about everything that had happened

• 1:32:05Speaker 13

  and why I had gone through this and not told him. I think Lyle felt really horrible that he had suspected that this was happening because it had happened to him.

• 1:32:19Speaker 13

  And I was trying to convince Lyle that, you know, there was nothing he could have done, that this wasn't his fault.

• 1:32:26Speaker 02

  Speculation. They wanted to kill them.

• 1:32:29Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I think they definitely had bad intentions for sure.

• 1:32:33Speaker 02

  And this goes back to, I think he feared Lyle.

• 1:32:36Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:37Speaker 02

  I think the dad began to fear Lyle and I believe that the dad knew.

• 1:32:39Bunnie XO?

  Well, because Lyle's a grown man at this time. He can beat the shit out of him, I'm sure.

• 1:32:43Speaker 02

  Yes, and I know that there was enough evidence that he truly believed that he would, his whole reputation and everything he had would be lost if Lyle was to come forward.

• 1:32:53Bunnie XO?

  Also during trial, they submitted um an essay that Eric had written at fourteen about somebody who rapes children.

• 1:33:03Bunnie XO?

  And they still overlooked that. I mean, like, there's just, the evidence is just crazy.

• 1:33:09Speaker 02

  It's really sad that

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  moving forward with this case and everything after all of the evidence that anyone could think any different of both of these boys. Even for them to be like, oh, they were acting, oh, they were this. The evidence is there. How could you ever assume that someone's cry had crocodile tears? That was another thing you saw. A lot of people kept saying, oh, the boys have crocodile tears. And I'm like, yeah, maybe they already cried out all their tears from like the lifelong hell that they just lived.

• 1:33:43Bunnie XO?

  I don't think they were crocodile tears.

• 1:33:44Speaker 02

  And when it finally broke, I think the breaking point to me was him saying sorry. Those were like the truest emotions I'd ever seen out of both of them.

• 1:33:52Bunnie XO?

  No, all of it. There was no crocodile tears. You could definitely see these boys were in such pain, dude, like, just so sad. So, um, you guys just heard him talk about the fishing trip and how that scared the shit out of them, which is that's what prompted them to go buy the shotguns to protect themselves because if Jose came in the room, Lyle said he was gonna blow Jose's head off.

• 1:34:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:14Bunnie XO?

  If he tried to hurt him. So the night of the murders, Jose came home and told Eric to go upstairs and wait for him and they thought that they were gonna be killed.

• 1:34:23Speaker 02

  In the bedroom.

• 1:34:25Bunnie XO?

  In the bedroom. Yeah, because Jose came in, he was in a mood, told Eric to go upstairs and Lyle just snapped. He literally snapped and freaked out. He's already stressed out because his dad, he just found out his dad's still molesting his brother, you know, Jose told him to fucking go fuck himself and then they took him out on this boat. I think Lyle just fucking snapped. He ran upstairs to Eric's room and said, this is it. We're gonna do it right now. And Eric was ready. Eric went and grabbed his gun too. And then they went downstairs and just blew their parents away, dude.

• 1:34:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:34:57Bunnie XO?

  And you know, after learning everything that has happened with these boys, I don't fucking blame them.

• 1:35:04Speaker 02

  I don't blame them at all.

• 1:35:07Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, I don't blame them at all.

• 1:35:09Speaker 02

  I would do the same damn thing.

• 1:35:12Bunnie XO?

  So after all that, after the families, the doctors, the letters, everybody corroborating every bit of evidence that these boys have said and poured their hearts out. The jury is deadlocked and it's declared a mistrial.

• 1:35:27Speaker 02

  Now, this is what pisses me.

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  This pisses me off more than anything. I learned in researching this, that it was split down the middle, that when they asked if, you know, was it this or it was that, all of the men in the room rose their freaking hands. That makes and and they said maybe like one woman or something. The rest were all women who were like absolutely not.

• 1:35:56Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:57Speaker 02

  The fact that those men in that room could not

• 1:36:00Bunnie XO?

  Heartless.

• 1:36:01Speaker 02

  Believe that a man could do this to another man goes to show how heartless it was.

• 1:36:09Bunnie XO?

  They were saying abuse isn't an excuse to kill, to kill.

• 1:36:14Speaker 02

  What? Let me stick stuff off all of your butts.

• 1:36:16Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, for fucking ten years, twelve years. Like that and fucking saw your dog's head off on top of getting your ass beat, on top of getting your face rubbed in urine. Like, these boys lived in a fucking house of horrors.

• 1:36:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:36:30Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:30Speaker 02

  And you're gonna say that that's not an excuse?

• 1:36:34Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:34Speaker 02

  Are you kidding me? And it then all the women, the reason this became a mistrial is because they truly sat there and argued and argued this because the women believed that these boys did not deserve this.

• 1:36:45Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:47Speaker 02

  So it goes to mistrial. And they deliberated for what thirty days?

• 1:36:51Bunnie XO?

  No, was it thirty? I thought it was five.

• 1:36:53Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:36:54Bunnie XO?

  Oh, was it thirty days?

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  We're gonna fact check this.

• 1:36:57Bunnie XO?

  We'll fact check.

• 1:36:57Speaker 02

  Pretty sure it was like a month.

• 1:36:59Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Yeah, so you know, they uh were deadlocked mistrial and then now we move on to the second trial and this is where the boys get literally, I don't want to use the terminology fucked. They get

• 1:37:15Bunnie XO?

  fucked, literally.

• 1:37:16Speaker 02

  You gotta use it.

• 1:37:18Bunnie XO?

  Other word that you can use, like they literally got fucked because the OJ Simpson trial, OJ during all of this, the boys get the mistrial and then right after that fucking OJ goes on that chase. So he's in the in this chase, he's in the media, it's a media circus, the boys have been forgotten about whatever. Fucking, oh, sorry.

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 1:37:42Bunnie XO?

  Are you all right?

• 1:37:42Speaker 02

  I'm fine.

• 1:37:43Bunnie XO?

  So um, the second trial begins eight days after the OJ Simpson trial. The boys never stood a chance.

• 1:37:55Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:37:55Bunnie XO?

  Literally.

• 1:37:56Speaker 02

  In both cases.

• 1:37:57Bunnie XO?

  In both cases because OJ had just gotten acquitted and the world was pissed off.

• 1:38:04Speaker 02

  The world was in divide.

• 1:38:06Bunnie XO?

  Yes, yeah, well, I mean, but they were really pissed off. There was nobody really believed OJ didn't do it.

• 1:38:11Speaker 02

  No, exactly. And like, I feel like whoever got this case knew it was going to be just as popular as the OJ case, if not more.

• 1:38:26Bunnie XO?

  Well, that's where they got fucked also is the judge ruled that the abuse excuse would not be allowed in this trial because the boys weren't women. So battered women syndrome couldn't be used as an excuse. So none of the abuse, none of the testimonies from the families, none of anything that was submitted in the last trial.

• 1:38:48Speaker 02

  Dr. S.A. Nothing.

• 1:38:49Bunnie XO?

  Nothing could be submitted into this trial. Out, completely out. And no cameras.

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  And the jury that they chose had just witnessed and gone through the previous trial. So they already know everything. It's crazy to me. I just, I'm so mad.

• 1:39:10Bunnie XO?

  Literally. So they're, they decided to not make it a media circus. The boys couldn't submit everything that was stacked against them. And they went in and it was literally October nineteen ninety-five, a retrial of the brothers begins with one jury. This time around, much of the defense evidence about sexual abuse is excluded. March nineteen ninety-six, the jury convicts both brothers of first degree murder.

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  Twelve to zero.

• 1:39:38Bunnie XO?

  Twelve to zero. You can't tell me that if they knew everything that was going on, like in that household, that there wasn't, there wasn't some, one person with a fucking heart.

• 1:39:48Speaker 02

  Not one person. Did they choose all twelve men? Like, like, get out of here.

• 1:39:54Bunnie XO?

  It's just crazy. And then July of nineteen ninety-six, the brothers are sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

• 1:40:02Bunnie XO?

  So, that, my friends.

• 1:40:05Speaker 02

  Is the trial.

• 1:40:08Bunnie XO?

  Is how the boys got convicted, how they are where they are today and why they've served, what, thirty-four to thirty-eight years?

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:40:15Bunnie XO?

  In prison. And so now, you know, May of twenty twenty-three, the Peacock docu-series Menendez and Menudo: Boys Betrayed, a former member of the boy band Menudo said in a sworn affidavit that he was raped by Jose Menendez when he was about fourteen. But like, at least he's coming out now. And that helps the boys tremendously.

• 1:40:35Speaker 02

  It does. And I feel like because of all of you guys, deep diving into this like we have.

• 1:40:41Bunnie XO?

  Yep.

• 1:40:42Speaker 02

  They are being seen in such a different light.

• 1:40:45Bunnie XO?

  Yes.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  And it's fine if you don't agree with us. All opinions are welcome, but

• 1:40:51Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:51Speaker 02

  this is how we feel about this. If I was them, I probably would have done it too.

• 1:40:57Bunnie XO?

  So, since in lieu of all the light that's being shown on them, the attorneys for the Menendez brother file habeas petition, asking the court to reconsider the conviction and sentence in light of new evidence from the Menudo band member and from a letter Eric wrote about the abuse prior to the killings. The attorney asked that the court either vacate the brother's conviction and sentence, or permit discovery and an evidentiary hearing in which they can provide proof the document says. So, during this time,

• 1:41:35Bunnie XO?

  that's when Monsters, September 2024, Netflix releases the true crime, um, drama Monsters, Lyle and Eric Menendez Story, a nine-episode series co-created by Ryan Murphy, about the killings. The show is really more interested in talking about how monsters are made, as opposed to born, Murphy said. Which, he's not lying.

• 1:41:56Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:41:57Bunnie XO?

  These boys were made, they had to be monsters. They aren't monsters, but they had to be monsters because they're not monsters, they just did monstrous things.

• 1:42:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:06Bunnie XO?

  You know, and I truly try to have that opinion about anybody who has hurt somebody, but then when you have facts like this about a case, you can see that these boys really aren't monsters.

• 1:42:19Speaker 02

  These boys only got six years.

• 1:42:21Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:21Speaker 02

  Before being S.A.

• 1:42:23Bunnie XO?

  And I'm sure they were still being abused, they were getting hung.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  I was like, two.

• 1:42:26Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, at two years old, they were getting hung.

• 1:42:28Speaker 02

  You're already getting abused.

• 1:42:29Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, so they've already been dealing with physical abuse and all that stuff.

• 1:42:33Speaker 02

  These boys didn't stand a chance, ever. They never had a year of life.

• 1:42:37Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:42:38Speaker 02

  I feel like the most these boys have been able to live is in prison.

• 1:42:43Bunnie XO?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:43Speaker 02

  Their life literally started the day they murdered their parents.

• 1:42:49Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, and in a statement released by Eric, um, talking about the Ryan Murphy, uh, Netflix docu-series, he pretty much states what we had said earlier. He said,

• 1:43:03Bunnie XO?

  He said, um, "These horrible and blatant lies are taking us back to an era when the prosecution built a narrative on a belief system that males were not sexually abused and that males experienced rape trauma differently than women. Those awful lies have been disrupted and exposed by countless brave victims over the last two decades who have been, who have broken through their personal shame and bravely spoken out. So now Murphy shapes his horrible narrative through vile and appalling character portrayals of Lyle and I and disheartening slander." So, you know, they don't agree with it because Murphy did not show the empathy that he should have, and we talked about that earlier.

• 1:43:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, most definitely. Not saying he did a bad job on it. Monsters is a fantastic series, but the main, main part of all of this was that he left out the humanization of those boys.

• 1:44:00Bunnie XO?

  Right, absolutely. And now the good news, October 5th, 2024, LA County District Attorney tells CNN Jim Acosta that he increasingly became concerned that it was critical that we reviewed the new evidence put forth by the defense. He noted that "times had changed regarding how the public and the courts treat victims of sexual abuse." He said, and I quote, "There is no question that our sensitivity to sexual assault is much more significant today. It has been clearly established that both men and women can be sexually assaulted, or boys and girls. I think 35 years ago, cultural norms were a little different. There is no question that a jury today would look at this case probably very differently than

• 1:44:45Bunnie XO?

  a jury did 35 years ago." He also notes that the shows and films about the case have had an impact. "But for the documentary, quite frankly, we probably would not be talking at this point," he said. "We may be talking later, but that certainty has increased in the attention by the public, and that's why we're being very public about where we are." So a hearing on the Menendez Brothers petition is set for November twenty ninth, baby.

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  Yes, we get to watch this unfold.

• 1:45:15Bunnie XO?

  Do you know that the world is going, I got goosebumps, the world is going to celebrate when those boys walk out of jail.

• 1:45:21Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Can we also talk about these boys have become completely different humans?

• 1:45:28Bunnie XO?

  Oh, so different.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  I want a painting. Can we talk about?

• 1:45:31Bunnie XO?

  Yeah, which one paints, Lyle or Eric? I forget. One of them paints like fricking Picasso.

• 1:45:37Speaker 02

  One of them. Dang, I don't remember who it was. I'm pretty sure it's Eric.

• 1:45:41Bunnie XO?

  And Lyle got all the like scholarship type.

• 1:45:44Speaker 02

  He went on to being like a representative and like so many different aspects and making a difference in other people's lives. So, uh, first off, I do want a painting.

• 1:45:54Bunnie XO?

  I want to paint Eric Menendez. I would like a painting, please.

• 1:45:57Speaker 02

  Eric Menendez is the modern day Bob Ross.

• 1:45:59Bunnie XO?

  Literally, like, and he paints so good, like, it's crazy, yeah. You could just tell he puts his whole entire life, his soul into it.

• 1:46:07Speaker 02

  And they even said, like, they never even knew that he could draw. And like how freeing is that, that you found something so beautiful and being able to let your emotions out in such a beautiful way.

• 1:46:18Bunnie XO?

  There's been rappers that have gone on in interviews lately that have been locked up with Eric and Lyle. And they said that they moved like G's in there. And like, if it wasn't for them, that they literally would not be who they are today because they were such good examples for them.

• 1:46:31Speaker 02

  My goodness, which they are together now.

• 1:46:33Bunnie XO?

  They are, and the boys were reunited, yes.

• 1:46:36Speaker 02

  Spend what, twenty years apart?

• 1:46:38Bunnie XO?

  Twenty something years.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little over twenty years. They did spend apart in two separate prisons, but here in the.

• 1:46:44Bunnie XO?

  After that letter was found, they split them up, did not tell the boys that they were getting split up, which was heartbreaking.

• 1:46:50Speaker 02

  Um, Walters interview and after that took them and separated them in two different um, vans and they didn't know why until they showed up at two different prisons. So sad, but they are reunited and they said that they are so happy to be in one another's lives again.

• 1:47:07Bunnie XO?

  I feel like the boys have served their time. Yes. I feel like they've done a life sentence. Yes. Thirty-five years, thirty-eight years, that's a life sentence. You know, and I think that like, let them prove themselves that they can be upstanding citizens and that they can get out, be free men and fucking change the world. Yes. And change the world, be advocates for sexual abuse. Absolutely. You know, show people that, hey, you can fucking get raped, beaten, abused, locked up, get out and still be something. They are going to make a difference in this world. I think they're icons.

• 1:47:40Bunnie XO?

  I do. I can get, you guys will probably get mad at me for saying that, but they literally have been in the limelight since fucking nineteen ninety. And they've done nothing but progress. Yeah. They've never regressed. Yeah. They're not like fucking Wade Wilson. They're not like Wade Wilson out here talking about on the phone to fucking all these bitches trying to scam people out of money. Like, these men actually changed their fucking lives. Yes. That's iconic. Out there changing other people's lives. What they did was wrong, absolutely, but they learned from it and they did it because they were fucking Self-defense? Not thinking in their right minds, dude. I really feel, I feel like it was self-defense. I feel like they split. You know, like, it's like one of those splits where you've just been abused for so long that you just fucking crack, dude. Yeah, your fight or flight is literally just raging.

• 1:48:25Bunnie XO?

  Yeah. Well, I can't wait to see these boys get released. I'm so excited. I'm just putting it in the air. That's why I keep saying it, but how long was that podcast time, eh?

• 1:48:38Bunnie XO?

  Yay, so we just did two hours of Eric and Lyle and there's and there's so much more that you guys can dig. Everything we've discussed. Like I said, we did not even touch the tip of the iceberg with all the testimony and stuff that's online, but if you can really watch those tapes, man, it will change your mind. It will fucking pull at your heartstrings and, you know, I'm just happy that we are able to use our platform to bring light to these boys too. So, like I said, Eric and Lyle, you're always invited on the podcast.

• 1:49:13Bunnie XO?

  You got anything else to say? That's all. Alright guys, thanks for tuning in and we will see you guys next week. Bye.