Pod Insights Dish Sir Grayson Perry, smashed cucumber and steak noodle salad and a beer About this episode Nick and Angela welcome a new member to the ‘I Cycled to Dish’ club, as Sir Grayson Perry pedals his way to the Dish table.
Grayson is one of Britain’s most celebrated contemporary artists. A potter, writer, broadcaster and social commentator, he rose to fame in 2003 when he won the Turner Prize, becoming the first ceramicist to receive the honour. He joins Nick and Angela to talk about his new tour, Are You Good?, which asks whether any of us are truly behaving ourselves.
We keep it simple at the start, with an ice-cold Daura Damm gluten-free beer. Grayson loves fresh, crunchy salads, and Angela obliges by serving a smashed cucumber and steak noodle salad. The umami flavours are complemented with a glass of Albert Road Pinot Noir.
Between bites, the chat covers Marmite confessions, banana rituals, nostalgia for greasy spoons and Nick’s delight at discovering someone who likes a pickled onion as much as he does. We even get to hear about the joys of overtaking men in Lycra while wearing a frock.
You can watch full episodes of Dish on YouTube and, new for this season, on Spotify.
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A transcript for this episode can be found at waitrose.com/dish
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0:30 Speaker 01 After Faye Fruit's yogurt, I'm never going back. So fruity, so thick, so gorgeous from the packet. It's called Faye Fruit's Yogurt. It's a smooth and fruity snack. Gimme, gimme that Faye. Passion fruit or strawberry flavour, my way. And taste the coconut, gimme that Faye. Go down the shops for this fruity snack after Faye Fruit's Yogurt. There's no going back.
0:52 Speaker 02 Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes.
1:00 Speaker 03 How are you feeling? Good?
1:01 Speaker 04 I mean, you know, I've had a good day. I've cracked iMovie because I have this habit of learning stuff on the job, you know?
1:07 Speaker 03 Right, yeah.
1:07 Speaker 04 So I've learned pottery on the job. I've learned TV presenting on the job.
1:11 Speaker 03 Yeah, very good.
1:12 Speaker 04 How to be a fashion tutor on the job. How to work Photoshop. How to sing. I learn things on the job and this morning I got to make a video for my show. I can make films now.
1:22 Speaker 03 Next, next.
1:23 Speaker 04 My god.
1:23 Speaker 03 You're off to Hollywood tomorrow.
1:25 Speaker 04 Watch out.
1:26 Speaker 05 Watch out.
1:28 Speaker 04 I recommend it as a tactic to learn stuff. Yeah, but just have a go and learn and, of course, you know, learning is a joy.
1:37 Speaker 02 Hello and welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I'm Nick Grimshaw.
1:41 Speaker 03 And I'm Angela Hartnett.
1:42 Speaker 02 And we are here for another episode of Dish. And you all right?
1:45 Speaker 03 I'm very well, thank you. And you?
1:47 Speaker 02 Yeah, I'm good, thanks, Ange.
1:48 Speaker 03 Ready for our guest today?
1:49 Speaker 02 I'm really looking forward to our guest today.
1:51 Speaker 03 You've met our guest before.
1:52 Speaker 02 Have you ever met?
1:53 Speaker 03 No, been a big fan.
1:54 Speaker 02 So Grayson Harry on Dish today.
1:56 Speaker 03 Huge name.
1:57 Speaker 02 Grayson's great. I've been a big fan of Grayson. I really like kind of all that Grayson stands for. They're very obviously talented in the artistic world, but they always so, you know, speak out about sometimes how ludicrous the art world is, has written and how. Hosted shows about class and masculinity.
2:12 Speaker 03 He's definitely his own person.
2:14 Speaker 02 Oh, absolutely.
2:14 Speaker 03 For sure. There's no, you know, you can't hide behind it.
2:17 Speaker 02 No.
2:17 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:18 Speaker 02 And I always like someone that sort of excels in their field, especially a field like art.
2:23 Speaker 03 Yes.
2:23 Speaker 02 Where people are maybe a bit intimidated by or daunted by, or, I mean, he could be a right asshole.
2:30 Speaker 03 Yeah.
2:31 Speaker 02 And actually, he's really disarming in the art world and makes it really accessible.
2:36 Speaker 03 Back to earth.
2:37 Speaker 02 Did you enjoy art ever?
2:39 Speaker 03 I did, actually. I did a bit of pottery. I would never say I'm a ceramicist, but no, I do like a bit of pottery. My neighbour's a potter and my uncle is a potter. And actually, my god, I'm surrounded by potters and my cousin. It is interesting how my uncle's a bit, he's ad lib. He's, you know, if it looks a bit wonky, he doesn't know. Whereas my neighbour, it's absolutely, you could have bought it in John Lewis, you know, it's perfection. But I always think people who are artistic have a general sense of style.
3:05 Speaker 02 Mm hmm.
3:06 Speaker 03 And Grayson's got, you know, there's style about him, you know, you know, he's got that in his blood, yeah.
3:11 Speaker 02 I love his voice.
3:12 Speaker 03 Yes.
3:13 Speaker 02 I also love the way he talks as well. So you are in for a treat if you are listening to this podcast. So Grayson is here to talk about a tour that he's doing called Are You Good?
3:22 Speaker 03 Yeah.
3:22 Speaker 02 Which is going to be touring from October and it's posing the question, are you good?
3:26 Speaker 03 Are you good then?
3:27 Speaker 02 Are you good?
3:28 Speaker 03 No, not all the time.
3:29 Speaker 02 No?
3:29 Speaker 03 It depends what you, you know, clarifies good, bad, you know. If you don't wash up at night, is that bad?
3:34 Speaker 02 No.
3:34 Speaker 03 If you crashed into a car, would you leave a note or wait for someone?
3:38 Speaker 02 Oh, I'd leave a note.
3:39 Speaker 03 You'd leave a note?
3:40 Speaker 02 I don't think you could just wait. They might be on holiday.
3:42 Speaker 03 Uh, but you wouldn't just drive off?
3:44 Speaker 02 No, I definitely wouldn't drive off. No, I'd have horrible guilt. Would you?
3:47 Speaker 03 No, of course not. Leave a note, yeah.
3:49 Speaker 02 Yeah, leave a note. [bleep] the car engine.
3:54 Speaker 03 I would [bleep] that.
3:57 Speaker 02 No, I know you're good because you'd go out of your way for others. If I texted you one night and I said something like, "Oh, I'm poorly and I'm starving," you'd drive over.
4:05 Speaker 03 With a big bowl of chicken soup?
4:07 Speaker 02 Yeah, you would. You would.
4:08 Speaker 03 No, that's very sweet.
4:08 Speaker 02 Yeah.
4:09 Speaker 03 Don't text me. No, I'm good.
4:12 Speaker 02 Now, usually around this time on the podcast, we like to talk seasonality and we'll produce something. This week, we want to talk about fish. I've never thought about fish being seasonal. But why is this a good fishy time?
4:25 Speaker 03 You know, I heard that expression, should eat mussels with an R in the month.
4:28 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, I have heard that.
4:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
4:29 Speaker 02 Is that true?
4:30 Speaker 03 I mean, the thing is, they can cultivate mussels now, so it's not necessary to... But you do stick to it because it's the warmer months and the cooler months, you see. So June, July, you wouldn't because they're hot months.
4:40 Speaker 02 Hot mussels.
4:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, whereas now you're coming into September, October, cooler months, you see, R in the month, yeah.
4:46 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, I don't know.
4:46 Speaker 03 And it's more about the temperature and what's abundant in the seasonality. So cod, haddock, all coming into season, perfect time of year. You wouldn't... Certain lobsters, you wouldn't use Cornish lobsters now because that's the summer months. You'd probably go for Scottish lobsters coming in. So there is, and it is about the temperature and how much you'll have. Because if, when it's... They want cold water. They don't want to be there swimming in a 40-degree bath.
5:10 Speaker 02 No. Well, imagine the olden days, before we'd like, you know, just have tomatoes and strawberries all year round or whatever.
5:16 Speaker 03 Exactly.
5:16 Speaker 02 I guess fish, they're always off somewhere, aren't they?
5:19 Speaker 03 Yeah, of course.
5:20 Speaker 02 So they'd be like, oh, I've got to get down to Seville.
5:22 Speaker 03 Go to that party in Ibiza.
5:24 Speaker 02 November.
5:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly.
5:25 Speaker 02 And then they're like, oh, we better swim upstream now to the UK. They're mad for it. Why do animals do that? You know, when you watch a documentary?
5:33 Speaker 03 Migration, you mean?
5:34 Speaker 02 And then it's like, the whale goes to Costa Rica to give birth and then swims back. Just have it there. Do you know when you watch it? And it's like, but this bird travels to South Africa every year to lay an egg. It's so far.
5:48 Speaker 02 Why do they do that?
5:49 Speaker 03 I don't know.
5:50 Speaker 02 Why don't they just stay there? Well, now that we know that, it's time to talk art. It's a fish art special with Sir Grayson Perry.
5:59 Speaker 02 A round of applause for the one and only Sir Grayson Perry, everybody. Wow.
6:06 Speaker 02 Hi Grayson. Hi Grayson.
6:07 Speaker 04 Hello.
6:08 Speaker 02 Welcome to Dish, how are you?
6:09 Speaker 04 Thank you, great, now looking forward.
6:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, good.
6:16 Speaker 02 Thanks Grayson.
6:16 Speaker 04 I'm always hungry.
6:18 Speaker 02 I'll just go now.
6:20 Speaker 04 Shall I do that again, should we redo that again?
6:23 Speaker 02 Are you hungry Grayson?
6:24 Speaker 04 Oh, I'm starving. I'm sweet, it's like 4 o'clock in the afternoon.
6:29 Speaker 02 Didn't you eat, what's wrong with you? Well, we're starting with a beer because you wanted an ice cold beer, so that's what we've got to start. Last time I saw you Grayson was on the radio with you and we had such a lovely time, I was telling Ange before you came in.
6:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, it was fun.
6:44 Speaker 02 It was really fun, so we're very excited you said yes again.
6:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, I don't say yes to everything.
6:49 Speaker 02 No. Oh, good, we feel privileged. We do, we truly do. Now, we wanted to talk about the Dish Cycling Club because there's quite an illustrious guest of people that do cycle into Dish, we've noticed it. You have cycled in today, are you someone that cycles everywhere?
7:04 Speaker 04 I cycle everywhere, I can go weeks without getting into car or going on public transport. Yeah, all year round, yeah, I do it for leisure, I used to do it for sport, you know, when I was younger, I did mountain bike racing. And I still like going on cycle tours and I do a bit of mountain biking every weekend.
7:20 Speaker 02 Do you remember when you first got your bike and what that was like? Because that's one of my terrible at like a childhood moment, can't really remember too much, but the bike was key to my childhood, was it for you?
7:30 Speaker 04 It was a slightly sore memory because my sister, even though she was younger than me, she got a bike before I did because we didn't have much money. So I was a bit sort of fed up about that. And then I always had really kind of ratty sort of second hand bikes when I was a kid. So I can sort of remember when I got older and I could afford, I remember I gave up smoking and I realised that my first mountain bike was a year's smoking money.
7:52 Speaker 02 Wow.
7:54 Speaker 04 And so I took up cycling and I got really, really keen really quickly, you know, and then within about two or three years I was racing.
8:00 Speaker 02 Do you remember the moment you took off, like when you had your stabilisers off? Oh, yeah.
8:04 Speaker 04 I taught myself, I come from a very dysfunctional family, I taught myself to ride a bicycle on my neighbour's bike.
8:11 Speaker 02 Oh, wow. But my husband cycles a lot, we have three bikes in our hallway.
8:14 Speaker 04 It's the new golf. Though, isn't it, as someone, as some.
8:18 Speaker 05 I hope not.
8:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, it is, it is.
8:20 Speaker 05 So, no, it's alright.
8:21 Speaker 04 As someone who's cycled for like, you know, thirty or forty years, you know, when you suddenly becomes popular, it's a bit like that band that you've been following at the pub and suddenly they're playing arenas and you kind of go.
8:30 Speaker 05 Yeah, fair enough, fair enough.
8:32 Speaker 04 Ooh.
8:33 Speaker 05 Yeah. You can't do that about Neil, Neil's proper old school cycler, he's been doing it for years.
8:39 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's alright, I think that's alright.
8:40 Speaker 05 He's alright.
8:41 Speaker 04 But there's a lot of amateurs out there.
8:42 Speaker 05 There are.
8:43 Speaker 04 But I love passing someone in Laker when I'm wearing a dress.
8:50 Speaker 04 That is one of my most biggest pleasures. You know, they're all clipped in and they're going for it and I'm a bit tanked up coming back from a party probably, you know. And I'm all flying, ribbons flying, you know, and I'm on my Dutch bike and I'm.
9:06 Speaker 04 And I pass them and there's a little bit of me that goes, yes.
9:14 Speaker 02 Well, because you cycled to dish, we're spotting a trend in it.
9:17 Speaker 05 Yeah.
9:17 Speaker 02 Graham Norton, cycled to dish.
9:20 Speaker 05 Steve Coogan.
9:20 Speaker 02 Steve Coogan, cycled to dish. Chris Evans, cycled to dish. We've made you this, it's the very first.
9:26 Speaker 05 Oh, yeah.
9:27 Speaker 02 Badge.
9:27 Speaker 04 What an honour, can I put it with my other badge?
9:29 Speaker 02 Yeah, it's the I cycled to dish badge.
9:32 Speaker 04 I'm so honoured.
9:33 Speaker 02 There you go, you've, I mean, yeah. I cycled to dish, love that.
9:38 Speaker 05 Fabulous.
9:38 Speaker 02 And we should do your food likes and dislikes, that's how we begin dish.
9:42 Speaker 05 Okay.
9:43 Speaker 02 It's what we do, your love start with Marmite and toast.
9:46 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah, every morning, pretty much.
9:48 Speaker 05 Yeah.
9:48 Speaker 02 Talk us through how you do it, do you do butter, do you do Marmite as well?
9:50 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, butter and Marmite, yeah. Well, my wife makes a lovely loaf of bread.
9:55 Speaker 05 Oh, so it's fresh bread.
9:56 Speaker 04 She's very good cook, my wife, so quite often it's homemade bread. Melt the butter in, you know, nice bit of butter then, just a dab of Marmite, I don't like it too thick, something to put it on like Nutella.
10:07 Speaker 05 No, no, it's wrong on a free level.
10:10 Speaker 04 You just want a dab, because my auntie used to make it and she used to sort of scramble up the crumbs and so they all became a kind of butter crumb Marmite mixture that kind of sat in the kind of pan of the slice, if you know what I mean.
10:23 Speaker 05 Oh, wow, okay, God. All amalgamated together, yeah.
10:27 Speaker 04 It's got a lot of, it's got a lot of kind of history in my family. Going right back to my earliest childhood.
10:32 Speaker 05 Yeah.
10:33 Speaker 04 So, yeah, Marmite toast, still love it.
10:34 Speaker 02 Ah, you also love pies, yes. Steamed cabbage, sriracha, fat noodles, crunchy salad or stir fry, roasted cauliflower with chili, pasta, tacos, sushi, tempura, dosas, chips, freshest fish, rare beef, good milk chocolate from the fridge. It's a good mix.
10:50 Speaker 05 Milk chocolate, I like that.
10:51 Speaker 04 Yeah, Chris, I get, when, when people say, oh, I've got this amazing chocolate. It's like eighty-nine percent cocoa powder, whatever it is, you know, like.
10:58 Speaker 05 Can't eat it.
10:59 Speaker 04 And I, and I eat it and it's like eating a candle.
11:01 Speaker 05 Yes, it's so horrible.
11:03 Speaker 04 It's absolutely disgusting.
11:14 Speaker 05 That's made my week, that has.
11:18 Speaker 04 Milk chocolate.
11:19 Speaker 02 It says here that you like to have a banana at eleven AM. Did you do that today?
11:23 Speaker 04 Every day.
11:24 Speaker 02 Every day.
11:25 Speaker 04 I think it's because, you know, you, you get to a certain age and you, you wanna watch your weight.
11:29 Speaker 05 Sure.
11:29 Speaker 04 And, uh, when I was, you know, in my twenties, I'd, I'd be at five meals a day apparently. But I remember once when I was fifteen, I came in, I'd been out on my push bike. And I came in, I ate five slices of toast for a snack.
11:45 Speaker 05 All in one thing, layered on top of my.
11:47 Speaker 04 Yeah, and I'd say eat five meals a day when I was like in my twenties.
11:51 Speaker 02 Play it out, mate, just starving, swimming. Remember how starving you were after swimming as well?
11:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
11:56 Speaker 05 Get you another beer.
11:57 Speaker 02 Oh, my God, you'd be starving.
11:58 Speaker 04 Every day is what I do is eleven o'clock, I have a coffee, black coffee with a banana. And that is my mid morning snack. And it just sort of hits the spot.
12:07 Speaker 02 Yeah.
12:08 Speaker 04 It's a bit healthy.
12:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
12:09 Speaker 04 It makes you feel like you've had something, but it doesn't feel like you've eaten a cake.
12:14 Speaker 02 We liked the fact that you have a ritual of having a banana every day at eleven. So we asked our dish audience if they had any similar ones. A few of our favourites. Clutter Bus, great name, says, after the dog walk every day, I like two pickled onions.
12:27 Speaker 05 Oh.
12:28 Speaker 02 Love a pickled onion.
12:29 Speaker 05 But, yeah.
12:30 Speaker 04 Yeah, but from nought to sixty, that's nought to sixty, is it? I mean.
12:34 Speaker 05 Dog walk could be at seven in the morning.
12:35 Speaker 04 I like a pickled onion, but with something, not just on it.
12:38 Speaker 02 Oh, no, I could do it out of the jar. Natalie says, I like to routinely have an afternoon, have a bit of a birthday cake sandwich when I'm on my shift.
12:46 Speaker 05 Where is she working, Natalie, bakers?
12:48 Speaker 02 Bakers, I presume so.
12:49 Speaker 04 Something very physical.
12:50 Speaker 05 Yeah.
12:51 Speaker 02 And finally, someone says.
12:52 Speaker 04 Grave digging.
13:00 Speaker 02 That's from Natalie the Gravedigger.
13:05 Speaker 02 Actually Natalie the Gravedigger is the name of your new shit, no joke.
13:10 Speaker 02 Onto your dislikes Grayson. There was one specific item which was aubergines.
13:14 Speaker 04 Yeah, yeah, there's something slimy, unrewarding, and then the skin. The skin can be very annoying and not kind of break up and get caught in your teeth or whatever. You've had bad aubergines.
13:26 Speaker 02 It takes a lot of work to make an aubergine nice, do you think maybe?
13:28 Speaker 04 Yeah, you can do it.
13:29 Speaker 02 Which makes me think, why eat it?
13:30 Speaker 04 It's also got that slightly perfumey thing going which I kind of, I don't like. It's like eating perfume, I don't like it.
13:36 Speaker 02 And then more general themes, which I think we can all agree with as your dislikes. Overcooked vegetables.
13:42 Speaker 04 Oh, I hate that. It's a bit mushy. Yeah, I mean, I learned, you know, because coming from a working class background, that's what I grew up with, was overcooked vegetables. And then suddenly I went sort of like to supper with a, with a middle-class friend and somebody was like, "Ooh, this broccoli tastes nice."
14:00 Speaker 04 I never knew that was possible.
14:03 Speaker 02 You're not into over-salted food and you also don't like a heavy pudding. What would you consider as being a heavy pudding?
14:09 Speaker 04 Well, I suppose, you know, any kind of pie, you know. I mean, I quite like a crumble, but I would want a heavy fruit bias. Yeah, yeah, two-thirds fruit, a third crumble, something like that. If it gets too crumble and not enough fruit, then I'm not gonna go there.
14:21 Speaker 02 Whereas I love the crumbly bit.
14:24 Speaker 04 Yeah, but by that point, you know, I've had enough to eat usually, you know, I enjoy my main course. Yeah, but I'm gonna make you something sweet now, after all that. Nothing bland.
14:33 Speaker 02 Nothing bland, no aubergine.
14:36 Speaker 04 It might be, because I've never had that good a sense of smell and your sense of smell is linked to your sense of taste. So sometimes I think that my, my palate is very insensitive.
14:45 Speaker 02 Right.
14:45 Speaker 04 I'm like the rest of me.
14:48 Speaker 02 Which is too sensitive.
14:53 Speaker 02 I wanted to talk to you about greasy spoons.
14:55 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
14:56 Speaker 02 Because I read in an interview that you're a big fan of greasy spoons. We've got a great greasy spoon near us, which we go to on the weekend.
15:02 Speaker 04 They're a dying breed.
15:03 Speaker 02 They are.
15:03 Speaker 04 It's a sad thing. You know, when I was younger, when I had a bigger capacity, you know, I would often go to a greasy spoon. And my favourite was chips, sausage, tinned tomatoes.
15:18 Speaker 03 Yeah.
15:18 Speaker 04 And fried egg.
15:20 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:20 Speaker 04 That was the combo I like. I've always been very partial to a tinned tomato.
15:23 Speaker 02 A tinned tomato. You got anything about that, Ange?
15:25 Speaker 04 Plum tomato.
15:26 Speaker 03 No tinned tomatoes. But I'm with you there, that's what my grandmother used to do, tinned tomatoes.
15:29 Speaker 04 There's something about that sort of watery sort of thing, that they're a good complement.
15:34 Speaker 02 Yeah, I always think, I don't know if I like them or if it's just like the nostalgia of it, because it just reminds me of like men and women.
15:39 Speaker 04 They are a bit like kind of skin bollocks, aren't they?
15:40 Speaker 02 Yeah.
15:41 Speaker 04 Yeah, never. Never.
15:43 Speaker 03 And on that note, pizza lunch.
15:47 Speaker 04 Oh, my favourite. Burger sandwich.
15:53 Speaker 02 Right, Ange, food is here. What have we got here, please?
15:56 Speaker 03 We've got a smashed cucumber and steak noodle salad.
15:59 Speaker 02 Oh, yes.
16:00 Speaker 03 Yeah.
16:01 Speaker 02 Okay, talk to me about smashed cucumbers, because I keep seeing people smashing cucumbers all over the internet.
16:06 Speaker 03 They're smashing them because it absorbs more flavour. You take out all the centre, the middle of it. So you're taking out all the watery seed bits. And then you put them in there with, what do we have in there? Rice wine vinegar, soya sauce, sesame oil and a little bit of honey in there as well. And it just has that lovely sort of umami flavour that really works with it.
16:24 Speaker 02 Mmm.
16:25 Speaker 03 And then it adds, because you love a crunchy salad, Grayson, so we had the crunchiness of the cucumber with the noodles and then the steak as well.
16:32 Speaker 02 How were you smashing your cucumbers?
16:33 Speaker 03 Cut them lengthways down the centre, take out the seeds, turn them, so skin side up, and then just with a rolling pin smash them and then chop them up.
16:42 Speaker 02 You know, people keep doing like smashed burgers, smashed potatoes, smashed avocado.
16:46 Speaker 04 You just think, you know, in my mind, what I go to is, that chef's got a lot of tattoos.
16:55 Speaker 02 There is a chef look, Ange.
16:56 Speaker 03 There is. It's a very, we always call it, it's like a Shoreditch look, the Shoreditch chef with the beard.
17:02 Speaker 04 But they still go for it. When you see the cooking programmes on the TV, you know, there's still, there'll still be the balding, the bald shaved headed chef, you know, with the tats. It's like, mate, can we get over that?
17:12 Speaker 03 Yeah. Change your style. That's what they need to do.
17:15 Speaker 02 What sort of steak do you use for this?
17:16 Speaker 03 No, you can use rump, but we use sirloin. You want one with a little bit of fat through it because you're sorting it quite quickly. So you want to keep it nice and pink inside, but the spice and the cornflour give it that little crispiness round the edge. So, rump steak is great, also sirloin. Cut it against the grain and then sort it out in a wok if you've got it, ideally. Perfect. So it's quick, quick.
17:37 Speaker 05 And how long for?
17:38 Speaker 03 Couple of minutes. That's it. Done.
17:39 Speaker 04 That's very nice.
17:40 Speaker 03 Do you like that, Grayson?
17:41 Speaker 04 I'd gone, I mean, I used to be kind of like, oh, I can afford a fillet, but then I got a bit bored of it.
17:45 Speaker 03 It's not the best cut?
17:46 Speaker 04 No. I do prefer the other cuts.
17:48 Speaker 03 Yeah, exactly. And the ribeye even better because you've got all that lovely fat going through it. You want that moisture, you see? And that's it. And the flavour. Anything with the fat's got flavour. Don't let anyone tell you anything else.
17:58 Speaker 02 I'm very hit or miss with the steak, but this is here.
18:01 Speaker 03 You like that? Good.
18:02 Speaker 02 This is very tasty, Ange.
18:04 Speaker 03 Thank you.
18:04 Speaker 02 Talk me through how we'd make this at home.
18:06 Speaker 03 So you cook your noodles, refresh them so they don't continue, wash all the starch off. You've smashed your cucumber and that's in its marinade of honey, rice wine, vinegar, sesame, soya. You take cornflour and five spice seasoning, mix that, you know, season up your meat with that. And then you fry it off your meat. Touch of soya in there and then you mix it all together and then you've got your salad.
18:29 Speaker 02 Mmm. And what about the wine pairing, Ange?
18:31 Speaker 03 So, South African wine, Albert Road, a Pinot Noir.
18:34 Speaker 04 It's, it's nice. I like a kind of, I don't want anything from a red wine that's too sharp. I remember when I, you know, talking in class, when I was a teenager, I had a very, very posh girlfriend.
18:43 Speaker 03 Oh.
18:44 Speaker 04 And I used to kind of have my tea back at home. So, you know, when I was on a five meals a day type thing. I'd have my tea and I'd get on my motorbike and putt putt putt over to the next village and have supper with my girlfriend. And they would always have wine. They lived in Tudor Manor House and we'd always have nice wine. So that, so I sort of start like, oh, actually I quite like wine. Yeah, yeah. Because you'd only had rough wine up to then. I'd suddenly like, oh, actually I quite like wine.
19:09 Speaker 02 Yeah.
19:10 Speaker 04 Yeah.
19:10 Speaker 02 Well, I love this vintage wine. If you want to try this recipe or any that we do on dishwaitrose.com forward slash dish recipes, they are all on there. Do you have a favourite restaurant? Do you have a place that you love to return to go that you always think hits the spot?
19:25 Speaker 04 I've had some amazing meals over the years, you know, travelling and, and, and, you know, I hang out with a lot of rich people, so that's good.
19:35 Speaker 04 So, I mean, my local restaurant near to where I live is Morro. Oh, lovely, yeah. In Edsmouth Market. So I go, I probably go there more than I, because I just like looking at all the young people walk past. Yeah. On a summer's evening. I like sitting outside, having a nice meal and watching the people go past. But yeah, I've, I've been spoiled in terms of food over the years.
19:54 Speaker 02 Grayson Perry, we come to your fast food quiz. Tell us, your favourite way to eat eggs?
19:59 Speaker 04 Oh, I like a boiled egg, just a classic one, you know. It's, it's surprising how lovely. Soft boiled egg? Soft, yeah. I would have it definitely on the runny side with soldiers, a twinkling of salt. Nice. Your favourite sandwich filling? Probably a really good cheddar cheese. Yeah. And plenty of veg, like a good tomato and a bit of nice crunchy lettuce, onion. Yeah. And a bit of pickle, but maybe mango chutney or maybe a chili chutney or something. Oh, right. Yeah, something like that.
20:32 Speaker 02 Yeah, mango chutney and cheddar sandwich, I love that.
20:35 Speaker 04 I made my own sandwiches when I go to work, usually something like that. For a few years, I worked making sandwiches in a hairdresser's on the King's Road. I did too. Yes, I made still a blacker sandwich.
20:46 Speaker 02 Oh my god.
20:48 Speaker 04 Get the turnip pie, that is it.
20:51 Speaker 02 Yes, turnip pie.
20:52 Speaker 04 I made still a blacker sandwich. Amazing. If anyone who had a heart.
21:02 Speaker 02 Favourite form of potato?
21:03 Speaker 04 Baked. You know, you've got the inside with nice batter put on it or whatever, soaks up whatever you're with. Then it's got the skin. If it's nice, you know, you've got a sort of second, I like a baked potato.
21:14 Speaker 02 Bit of an event as well, because you've got to really go for it for a few hours.
21:16 Speaker 04 It's easy as well. You just bang it in and you know you've started cooking. Yeah, two hours later. Because you can't procrastinate because the baked potato is off.
21:24 Speaker 02 Baked potato's off.
21:25 Speaker 04 Uh, favourite pasta dish? I do like spaghetti.
21:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:29 Speaker 04 I think you can't beat a classic. Because I like the fact, I mean, I don't know if I might be wrong with this, Angela. But in Italy, that's the one sort of pasta that an Italian will eat from dried, yeah?
21:41 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
21:41 Speaker 04 Cooked from dried, yeah. And I like that. I know, because I quite, so I like, because often I get pasta and it's a bit, you know.
21:48 Speaker 03 Yeah.
21:49 Speaker 04 And so I like the fact that it's still got a bit of.
21:52 Speaker 03 Dente, al dente, yeah. And it works with the best sauces, you know, tomato sauce, bongolean.
21:58 Speaker 04 Yeah.
21:59 Speaker 03 Uh, favourite Sunday roast?
22:01 Speaker 04 I do, I mean, I do like a kind of sous vide lamb.
22:04 Speaker 03 A sous vide lamb?
22:06 Speaker 02 What, sous vide?
22:07 Speaker 03 You surprised me.
22:08 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's where it's really falling off the bone, sort of type of thing.
22:11 Speaker 03 So really slow cooked, yeah, yeah, like a shoulder of lamb or something.
22:15 Speaker 04 But, uh, yeah, then I quite like pork with apple sauce as well. If it's really done, you know, my teeth aren't quite up to crackling anymore though.
22:23 Speaker 02 Uh, what would you say is your favourite kitchen utensil?
22:26 Speaker 04 Uh, bottle opener.
22:36 Speaker 03 Best answer so far for the food quiz, across the board, I love it.
22:41 Speaker 02 The tour's called Are You Good?
22:43 Speaker 04 Yeah.
22:43 Speaker 02 And how are you feeling about the tour? And now we're, you know, a bit of a way out.
22:47 Speaker 04 I mean, I'm quite, I'm feeling quite good because I think it's gonna be fun. I'm actually the least prepared I've ever been, but I think that's a good thing. Because when I'm go on tour, and I do kind of like, like last time I did like 30 dates. I hate myself when I feel I'm getting slick.
23:01 Speaker 03 Ah, you want a bit of chaos.
23:03 Speaker 04 I want a little bit of chaos and a little bit of fun. But I think the audience likes that too. They like to feel they're in the moment.
23:08 Speaker 03 Yeah, of course.
23:09 Speaker 02 And it's nice to see someone real.
23:11 Speaker 04 Yeah, so I don't learn it, I don't learn the show. What I do is I just put together a very, very, uh, long PowerPoint. And that kind of queues me up to talk about certain things. I mean, lots of jokes, so lots of audience participation. I ask the audience, you know, what they think about certain things.
23:29 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:29 Speaker 04 And a few songs.
23:31 Speaker 03 Yeah.
23:31 Speaker 04 But that gives me a structure where I can kind of, if I fancy going off on one and losing my temper a bit or something, you know, I can do that.
23:39 Speaker 02 Yeah.
23:39 Speaker 04 That's good.
23:40 Speaker 02 That's a good place, and then you've still got the PowerPoint to bring you back in, where you can wander off.
23:44 Speaker 04 Exactly, if you just click on the next slide when you feel yourself drying up, yeah.
23:48 Speaker 02 That's a good way to do it.
23:49 Speaker 04 My producer sometimes said. That was an hour and fifteen first half. That's a bit long.
23:54 Speaker 02 Bit long for one slide. And it's about, it's about finding out if people are good or if actually they're evil.
24:01 Speaker 04 Well, I cover both bases.
24:03 Speaker 02 You both bases?
24:03 Speaker 04 Yeah, well goodness can be a little bit kind of, what can I say, a bit dish raggy.
24:08 Speaker 02 Right, right, right, right.
24:10 Speaker 04 A bit earnest.
24:11 Speaker 03 Yes.
24:12 Speaker 04 You know what I mean?
24:12 Speaker 02 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
24:13 Speaker 04 A bit kind of like slightly overwashed linen.
24:15 Speaker 03 Yeah. Well, that's why we always like the baddie in a show, don't we? We always sort of veer towards that person in that show we're looking, we like them. We're attracted to the baddie.
24:25 Speaker 04 Yeah.
24:26 Speaker 02 You said there's song in it. The song is that, is that you?
24:29 Speaker 04 Yeah, I always write some songs. Yeah, I like singing, yeah.
24:32 Speaker 02 Because you like singing because you're the masked singer?
24:33 Speaker 04 I did, yeah. I loved it.
24:35 Speaker 02 And how did that happen? Did they just ring you?
24:37 Speaker 04 Well, they just heard that I liked singing. They were very keen, so they asked me why and I got, I was actually on tour, so I couldn't do it. So I said, yeah, definitely do it next year. And so they called me up again and we had this absolutely lovely time. It was such fun. And I beat Macy Gray.
24:54 Speaker 02 Yeah.
24:56 Speaker 05 Didn't she walk off in a huff?
24:57 Speaker 04 Oh, she was in such a huff. I loved it. The moment of the series, basically, the moment of the series was when she took the mask off and her face was like thunder. Like this. Because she had, I think she had won the American one.
25:10 Speaker 03 Oh, right, okay.
25:11 Speaker 04 I don't think necessarily the masked singer at US is the same as the British version because in Britain we know it's ridiculous. But what's brilliant about it is it's a superbly crafted, enthusiastic piece of ridiculousness.
25:24 Speaker 03 Yeah, yeah, yeah.
25:24 Speaker 04 Whereas in America, they might have thought it was a singing competition.
25:29 Speaker 02 They're like, this is quite normal.
25:31 Speaker 03 It's gonna change my career.
25:34 Speaker 02 Well, if you wanna see Grayson sing on tour, amongst other things, tickets for Are You Good are on sale right now and it's gonna be from October the 7th right through to December the 7th.
25:48 Speaker 02 We were talking before about the Turner Prize and what it means for an artist to win a prize, or even the idea of giving a prize to art. It was 22 years ago when you won the Turner Prize. And it was quite a huge breakthrough because you were the first Potter to win the prize, presented by Sir Peter Blake. How was it for you? How did it feel to be up for the Turner Prize? How was it to win the Turner Prize?
26:12 Speaker 04 I mean, it was really in its pomp at that moment. You know, the art world was really flourishing in London. London was the centre of the art world. And so it was a huge thing, you know. We'd have like a kind of half an hour show on Chatham Live. And it was big. So when you got nominated, it was like, oh, wow, this is it. You know, you just get that platform and you get the exhibition of the Tate Gallery and it's very exciting. So I sort of thought, that's great. And then maybe winning will be like the icing on the cake.
26:39 Speaker 03 Yeah, sure.
26:40 Speaker 04 But then when I won, which I didn't expect to do, it was sort of like, oh, I see, you get the whole cake shop.
26:47 Speaker 03 And a baker in a van.
26:48 Speaker 04 Yeah, exactly. So it was really amazing, yeah. Because being, you know, being me, wearing a frock and everything, I got a lot of publicity. But it was all good. Pretty much all the, you know, I was getting positive write-ups right across the press from sort of left to right. And it was really funny. And, you know, it was, it was a good moment in my, it's about publicity there. All competitions are basically PR jobs for the sector, you know, of their culture, whether it be the Oscars or the Booker Prize or whatever. I think the sort of cultural landscape has changed because, you know, when I was growing up, the art world was in some ways very much at sort of, you know, the cutting edge of culture. And I don't know if it is anymore.
27:30 Speaker 04 You know, I think the cutting edge is probably somewhere out there in kind of online culture somewhere with AI or something. I think that the really kind of like people who are pushing what it means to be creative are probably somewhere else now. And it's changed hugely.
27:47 Speaker 03 Because it was when it was all that Britpop sort of era bit, when you had the Sensation exhibition, you know, and the Sartre. You know, that's when you felt art was like everywhere.
27:55 Speaker 04 Yeah.
27:56 Speaker 03 And it was all there.
27:57 Speaker 04 Ryan Eno has a phrase, he calls it senius.
28:00 Speaker 05 Yes.
28:01 Speaker 04 Which is senius, so you think of sort of like Paris.
28:04 Speaker 05 Yeah.
28:04 Speaker 04 1905.
28:05 Speaker 05 Yes.
28:06 Speaker 04 Or kind of like New York, 1953, you know, whatever, you know. And it would be a coming together of a group of creative people and the energy of a place or whatever.
28:16 Speaker 05 Yeah, of course.
28:16 Speaker 04 And, but I don't know if that happens anymore because we live in a digital world.
28:20 Speaker 05 Yeah.
28:21 Speaker 02 How do you feel about a prize for art in general? Because I remember, do you remember when Madonna gave out the award?
28:26 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
28:27 Speaker 02 She gave out the Turner Prize and I can't remember now because now I've had two beers.
28:31 Speaker 04 She's a fan of mine.
28:32 Speaker 02 Oh, yeah, I bet.
28:33 Speaker 04 Well, you know, she came to my show recently, yeah.
28:35 Speaker 02 Yeah, I saw a post about it, yeah. Have you ever crossed paths with her?
28:38 Speaker 04 No, no.
28:39 Speaker 02 But I saw she loved your show and posted all about it, which is mad.
28:44 Speaker 05 Amazing.
28:45 Speaker 02 Because she didn't post about stuff apart from like.
28:47 Speaker 05 Herself.
28:48 Speaker 02 Look, it's me, Madonna. Then she posted, which is fair enough.
28:51 Speaker 04 You know, hey, you know, I'm a sleeper, kids. I'm under the radar, but I may be cool.
29:00 Speaker 02 But she's a huge art fan and she always, you know, obviously like references it. But I remember the speech that she gave where she was basically like saying like, should, what's going to happen to these artists when they win a prize? Are they going to make better art? Probably not.
29:12 Speaker 04 Oh, I did. For me, it was great.
29:16 Speaker 04 I've done my best art since.
29:18 Speaker 02 Did you?
29:19 Speaker 04 Yeah, definitely.
29:20 Speaker 02 But did prize winning or being recognised make you make better art?
29:24 Speaker 04 Well, it gives you more opportunities and you get a little bit more confidence and you get a bit more money. So therefore you can, you can put your money into your work.
29:32 Speaker 05 Yeah, of course.
29:33 Speaker 04 Yeah, so I feel like I've done my best work since I won. Yeah, and also you beat the other people.
29:40 Speaker 04 Because you know, there's this idea that culture is that, oh, we're all in this together. It's a community. Bollocks.
29:54 Speaker 05 That's how it should be when people accept you all. I'll beat you all.
29:58 Speaker 04 I'd had a few beers, obs, and I was, I won a, I think it was National Television Award. And I was up against like one of those nature documentaries. And I got up on the stage when I won, I said, yeah, take this, David Attenborough.
30:18 Speaker 05 The only one to slay a national icon. Hey, we love him, he's, he can take it, and he's got big shoulders.
30:26 Speaker 02 And now, while we were, well, you don't know about Grayson actually, maybe? Because we were saying that there's something that, I don't know, there's, you two may align in some way, I think.
30:36 Speaker 05 Oh, really?
30:36 Speaker 02 Because, you know.
30:37 Speaker 05 Growing up in Essex, there you go.
30:39 Speaker 02 Yeah, there's Essex, there's incredible imagination and creativity, of course. I wanted to ask you my biggest problem, procrastination. Is procrastination part of the, you know?
30:50 Speaker 05 Beef and time.
30:50 Speaker 02 The part of it, or how do you avoid it?
30:52 Speaker 04 I'm a kind of office hours sort of person, but I'm on all the time, so I quite often get my sketchbook out while I'm watching my TV.
31:00 Speaker 05 Yeah.
31:00 Speaker 04 You know, but you've just got to commit, I mean, there's this idea, and I think the internet has sort of fed into this idea, that sort of somehow there's a perfect thing to do. And there was a moment, I was teaching some fashion students a year or two ago, and this student came in, and I looked at her drawings and I sort of went, hmm, something funny going on here. I said, and she was covered in really like strong tattoos, right, really graphic tattoos. And I said, and the drawing looked like she had kind of got a 6H pencil and kind of like turned her back on it and kind of put this lightest little scribble on the page, like, oh. And I sort of held it next to her arm, I said, you seem perfectly happy in kind of like committing this stuff to your body,
31:43 Speaker 04 but you can't seem to commit to a bit of A4 paper, you know? And it's like, I always draw with a pen because I think you've just got to go for it because you realise there is no perfect thing to do.
31:54 Speaker 05 Yeah.
31:55 Speaker 04 And you've just got to do it and you work it and you change it and, but you've got to make a start. You've just got to put that thing in and have that confidence of doing the first thing.
32:03 Speaker 05 Yeah.
32:03 Speaker 04 And there is no perfect thing. And you are going to make mistakes, and some of the stuff you do is going to be rubbish. And that's fine, because every artist does rubbish stuff. And that's okay.
32:14 Speaker 02 That's the process, I guess.
32:15 Speaker 05 Yeah, that's it, yeah.
32:16 Speaker 04 And there's nothing wrong with being, you know, average. It's fine, if you enjoy doing it, do it, because it's good for you.
32:23 Speaker 02 Do you, Grayson, like to go? To galleries and shows and look at other art.
32:27 Speaker 04 I used to go more, I'm too busy these days. I used to have like whole days where I'd go and do and sort of catch up on what was going on, but I'm just so busy now.
32:35 Speaker 03 But do you miss that though? Were they great times that you just had a bit of a lone time and it felt good?
32:40 Speaker 04 I don't know, I think I'm very much harder to impress now.
32:42 Speaker 03 Wow.
32:43 Speaker 04 Yeah, I, yeah, I, I think I'm becoming a jaded old asshole.
32:50 Speaker 04 You know, it's funny, but that's the nature of getting old, you know, and I don't know if it's like for you.
32:54 Speaker 03 And also you're allowed to be, I think, you know, you've done, you've done the groundwork.
32:57 Speaker 04 You don't wanna say, oh, I've seen that before, or like, yeah, but it, it's very often, you know, I go into a gallery and I gotta go, yeah, it's quite a good version of that. I think in some ways we're addicted to novelty and experimentation. I would rather have quality.
33:11 Speaker 03 Yes.
33:11 Speaker 04 I don't, when I go into an art exhibition, I don't think about, oh, I wanna see something experimental and novel that's broke the boundaries and is the cutting edge or whatever. I don't wanna see that. What I wanna see is something that's really good quality. Whether it's a thousand years old or whether it was made yesterday, I wanna see something that has the aesthetic sensitivities and it, and it's really sophisticated and beautifully made. And I think that that is often this kind of fixation, this fetish of novelty has, has driven culture through the 20th century.
33:45 Speaker 03 Yeah.
33:45 Speaker 04 And I think now we should all settle down and get a bit more mature about it and start thinking, was that actually any good though? So anything with the word experimental in front of it, I just often kind of go, avoid, red flag. Experimental theatre, no!
34:03 Speaker 04 What it means is boring.
34:09 Speaker 02 Do you do that though, Ange? Do you go and try new, new spots? Cause there must be like, in art, the same as food, there must be like new trends or the new thing and.
34:17 Speaker 03 You do, you go and try new restaurants if you wanna do it, but I, I, I don't wanna be that person. I, I refuse to be that. I go and take my camera out every time I go out to eat food. I can't deal with that because I think I just wanna enjoy the time and have, you know, enjoy the company, whoever I'm with and just have a good time. But it, but I sort of think the great thing. Like when you, as you say, like I the other day, I was up in Cheshire. And I've been desperate to go to Crosby Beach to see the Anthony Gore.
34:42 Speaker 04 Oh, yeah.
34:43 Speaker 03 And for years, because it's been there for years. And I suddenly was there, I made myself two hours late for lunch to do this detour. Because I thought that has just been one of those things I wanted to cross up. And you, you look at it, you know, it's metal figurine or figures in the sea. But it was stunning. And that's the art, you sort of, as you say, it's that longevity.
35:02 Speaker 04 I think it's one of the best public sculptures.
35:04 Speaker 03 It's amazing.
35:04 Speaker 04 There's a lot of, I mean, I would never, I'm never, I've been asked to do public sculpture. I've never done it. There's, there's so many issues like health and safety, not offending anyone and all that kind of stuff. But I think that, you know, that is a really good piece of public sculpture. It's, it's lovely.
35:22 Speaker 02 Grayson, we have the end of the show questionnaire for your chance to win. This Waitrose goodie bag.
35:27 Speaker 04 I'm all for it. I really want it.
35:29 Speaker 02 Full of stuff.
35:30 Speaker 04 Oh, look at that. Now, I do, now you're making me want to win it now. And like, you know, I've become, I've become passionate.
35:38 Speaker 03 Don't become passionate.
35:39 Speaker 02 Don't become passionate, Grayson.
35:44 Speaker 02 For the Waitrose goodie bag, please, could you paint a mental picture of what you would consider the perfect pie?
35:52 Speaker 04 Oh, the perfect pie. Well, one of my stipulations would be that it has pastry underneath as well as on the top. I can't, I think it's just a con.
35:59 Speaker 02 Con.
36:00 Speaker 04 You know, if you, if you get a pie at a restaurant and it's just got pastry over the top. It's a lie. It's not a pie. It's got that pastry underneath it. Soaked in things.
36:11 Speaker 02 So pastry underneath.
36:12 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's got to have a nice shiny, you know, someone's done a bit of egg brushing on it.
36:17 Speaker 03 Egg brushing, yeah.
36:18 Speaker 04 And then what would I want inside? I would want, I would want it to be super moist, so it really soaks into the crust, you know, like plenty of gravy. And it probably just going to be a classic, you know, like a steak and kidney.
36:30 Speaker 03 Okay.
36:31 Speaker 04 I mean, it might have, I mean, they, they, they do this whole thing ale. But I'm never quite sure what that really means, you know.
36:42 Speaker 04 I just think it's a hipster affectation.
36:44 Speaker 03 I'm with you. I'm gonna write that anytime from now on, that's a hipster affectation.
36:48 Speaker 04 But I, I, I, you know, it's the pastry and the kind of insides, that's, it's that combo that you want.
36:54 Speaker 03 It's the ratio, yeah.
36:55 Speaker 04 Yeah, it's the ratio, because you don't wanna feel like you're just eating a stew. Because I'm one of those people, when I'm eating, that I will save a little bit of that and a little bit of that and a little bit of that and a little bit of that, to make sure my last mouthful or two mouthfuls are kind of representative of the whole meal.
37:09 Speaker 02 No, that's good. Is that a good description, Hans?
37:12 Speaker 03 Definitely, I can do that.
37:13 Speaker 02 All right, the goodie bag is yours, Grayson Perry. The goodie bag is Grayson.
37:19 Speaker 02 Grayson, that was so fun.
37:20 Speaker 03 Thank you, you're amazing.
37:22 Speaker 02 I love that so much. Are You Good on tour from the 7th of October to the 7th of December. We've gotta go.
37:29 Speaker 03 We're going, we're going.
37:30 Speaker 02 A round of applause to the incredible Grayson Perry, everybody.
37:35 Speaker 02 Grayson, thank you.
37:36 Speaker 03 Thank you so much.
37:38 Speaker 02 Oh, I love that. Oh, hello, it is us again. We are here at the end of your Dish episode, like dessert, if you will. Okay, we've got this email from Kerry, who got in touch with us, [email protected] , by the way, if you wanna get in touch, saying, "Hi Dish team, I wanted to send a very big thank you. I've just finished walking the Camino de Santiago."
38:01 Speaker 03 Oh, wow.
38:01 Speaker 02 280 kilometres from Porto to Santiago, and I had the Dish podcast in my ears every single day.
38:08 Speaker 03 Oh, my gosh.
38:09 Speaker 02 Wow. I'm already a weekly listener, but for the Camino, I decided to go back to the very beginning and listen to every single episode, start to finish. It became such a highlight of the walk, and honestly,
38:20 Speaker 03 Wow.
38:20 Speaker 02 I don't think those weeks would have been the same without it, so thank you for keeping me company and making the kilometres fly by. Wow. As a chef myself, walking that far gave me plenty of time to think about food, which brings me to my question. When you travel, how do you approach food? Do you make a point to explore the local cuisine? Or do you prefer to use local ingredients and cook in?
38:41 Speaker 03 Both, I think. Definitely, well, a lot of the time we're choosing our holiday base. Like, if we go to Japan, it's because we wanna eat the food as much as see the culture. And to be fair, I don't eat. In in Japan, I don't go to the fish market and cook. Um. But if I go to Italy, I would go to local restaurants and I would buy food from the market and cook at home.
38:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, I I think I'd do the first option, go and.
39:03 Speaker 03 Explore the culture, yeah.
39:04 Speaker 02 Yeah, I hate cooking on holiday, if I'm honest.
39:06 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, fair enough.
39:07 Speaker 02 I actually don't hate cooking on holiday. I hate washing up on holiday.
39:10 Speaker 03 Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, fair enough. Yeah, all that.
39:13 Speaker 02 Not, not, not now.
39:14 Speaker 03 No, I don't need it.
39:15 Speaker 02 Do this at home.
39:16 Speaker 03 I don't mind. Well, to be fair, it's always a load of us, so.
39:19 Speaker 02 Yeah, if you've got gigs, all right.
39:20 Speaker 03 End up never cooking, to be fair.
39:22 Speaker 02 Yeah.
39:22 Speaker 03 So I do a little bit of organisation, wander off, read my book.
39:25 Speaker 02 That's the way to do it, Kerry. It's the Angela way. Um. Well, thank you for your question, Kerry. No more Dish for this week, but we will be back next week.
39:33 Speaker 03 Next week.
39:34 Speaker 02 See you then.
39:40 Speaker 02 If you are feeling hungry after that episode, follow Dish on Instagram, YouTube and TikTok to see Angela in action making each of these weekly recipes. If you want to take them on, I'm the kind of cook that needs the visual. I have to watch a chef doing it for me to attempt it.
39:57 Speaker 03 If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com forward slash Dish recipes for all the ingredients and the recipes.
40:05 Speaker 02 If you do want to get in touch, please do. Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to [email protected] .
40:14 Speaker 03 Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production.
40:17 Speaker 02 Waitrose, the home of food lovers.
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