Jordan Stephens, saffron & cardamom chicken with cranberry salsa, and a vouvray

Croissants as a starter? No issue whatsoever. Jordan Stephens is a musician, actor, presenter, podcaster and writer, who arrives at Dish off the back of an incredible year, full of achievements and firsts. He chats to Angela and Nick about the paperback release of his thought-provoking memoir, Avoidance, Drugs, Heartbreak and Dogs, a personal story of self-acceptance. Alongside events and talks to promote the book, Jordan has had a busy 12 months, making his theatre debut in Entertaining Mr Sloane, joining the hit podcast Miss Me? as its new host and presenting his first documentary for Channel 4. He also returned to where it all started with Rizzle Kicks, who released their first album in 12 years alongside a UK tour and a performance at Glastonbury. Angela serves up a warming dish of saffron & cardamom chicken with cranberry salsa, paired with a glass of Domaine Du Vieux Vauvert Vouvray. That’s preceded by a cup of Earl Grey tea and a croissant, which immediately showcases Jordan’s passion for food and ranking systems. Jordan’s girlfriend is friend-of-the-show Jade Thirlwall, so we get an even deeper understanding of her love of roasts and their plans for Christmas. We also hear how food brought Jordan one-step closer to his dream of making music, and there’s a return to our discussion on pet names. Please let us know if your dog is called Susan. You can watch full episodes of Dish on YouTube and, new for this season, on Spotify. All recipes from this podcast can be found at waitrose.com/dishrecipes The recipe for saffron & cardamom chicken with cranberry salsa was created for Waitrose by Noor Murad. A transcript for this episode can be found at waitrose.com/dish If you want to get in touch with us about anything at all, contact [email protected] Dish from Waitrose is made by Cold Glass Productions Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:30Speaker 01

  After Faye Fruits Yogurt, I'm never going back. So fruity, so thick, so gorgeous from the packet. Called Faye Fruits Yogurt. It's a smooth and fruity snack. Gimme, gimme that Faye. Passion fruit or strawberry flavour, my way. And taste the coconut, gimme that Faye. Go down the shops for this fruity snack after Faye Fruits Yogurt. There's no going back.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass production. This podcast may contain some strong language and adult themes. Hello, welcome to Dish from Waitrose. I'm Nick Grimshaw.

• 1:03Speaker 03

  And I'm Angela Hartnett.

• 1:04Speaker 02

  And here we are in a festive setting.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  Very festive.

• 1:07Speaker 02

  Because we're just a few weeks out from Christmas now.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  You've been excited since the middle of November.

• 1:13Speaker 02

  I have. Our tree went up earliest ever. End of November.

• 1:16Speaker 03

  And how many trees do you have?

• 1:19Speaker 02

  We have one at the moment.

• 1:20Speaker 03

  And by Christmas Day, how many are you gonna have?

• 1:24Speaker 02

  Me, she thinks we should have one in the kitchen, which I agree on.

• 1:26Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:26Speaker 02

  Because I think...

• 1:27Speaker 03

  By Christmas Day, how many are you gonna have?

• 1:28Speaker 02

  When you have a new Christmas, like lunch and everything, nice to have a tree.

• 1:31Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:32Speaker 02

  Two.

• 1:32Speaker 03

  Two. And where's the other one going?

• 1:34Speaker 02

  Well, we're currently locked in a debate because he thinks we should have one in our bedroom, which I think's mad. He also thinks it should be on a timer so that when I wake up at 5.30, it's on at 5.29, so I wake up and I'm like, "Christmas!" I do like Christmas and I love it, but for getting people together and...

• 1:53Speaker 03

  It's lovely, yeah.

• 1:55Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 1:55Speaker 03

  The chicken.

• 1:56Speaker 02

  The chicken, the chicken.

• 1:57Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, chicken.

• 1:58Speaker 02

  Oh, chicken.

• 1:59Speaker 03

  Well, we are cooking.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  Hello, chicken.

• 2:02Speaker 03

  Hello, chicken.

• 2:02Speaker 02

  Hello, chicken. The observant viewers amongst you will have noticed that we're in a new studio today.

• 2:08Speaker 03

  Exciting.

• 2:09Speaker 02

  I actually don't know where I am because I fell asleep on the way here, so...

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, in a different studio, but it still feels dishy.

• 2:19Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have our table, we have our cabinet, our lights, yes.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  You.

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Me, you.

• 2:25Speaker 02

  That's all we need.

• 2:25Speaker 03

  Kitchen.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Kitchen.

• 2:27Speaker 03

  Food. Hence the chicken alarm.

• 2:28Speaker 02

  How has it been cooking in a different kitchen?

• 2:31Speaker 03

  It's fine. We have all our little bits. It's all good, yeah. Oh, it's induction, though. That's been slightly annoying because I like, you and I like the gas.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  We like gas, don't we? Our guest today is Jordan Stephens.

• 2:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41Speaker 02

  Jordan, he does a lot. There's a lot to talk to Jordan about. He, of course, is a musician. He is a writer. Jordan's had a great year because he's joined Miss Me, of course, with Makita. He's been on stage at The Young Vic. He's played Glastonbury. There's a lot going on. So lots to talk to Jordan about, too. Have you met Jordan?

• 2:59Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:59Speaker 02

  He's lovely, Jordan.

• 3:00Speaker 03

  I've started reading his book and he sounds, well, incredible, actually.

• 3:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, he really, really is.

• 3:06Speaker 03

  And he, you know, and he's very open about himself.

• 3:08Speaker 02

  He is, yeah.

• 3:09Speaker 03

  Very honest.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's really nice to spend time with. But first, Anthony, off of sound.

• 3:15Speaker 03

  Off of sound.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Has a question.

• 3:16Speaker 04

  What's in season?

• 3:18Speaker 02

  What's in season?

• 3:21Speaker 02

  Lovely, lovely question. Not exactly seasonal, but we basically want to ask you whether or not stuffing should be liberated.

• 3:28Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 3:29Speaker 02

  Because Alex Shrock is a Waitrose recipe writer.

• 3:32Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  You know him from St John's.

• 3:34Speaker 03

  Excellent John, yeah. Lovely Alex.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  He said, "Let's liberate stuffing. Give it more airtime than roasts and Christmas. There's nothing to stop us having stuffing, chips and baked beans for tea." So what do you think about that, Ange? Having stuffing in its own right, like away from a roast?

• 3:54Speaker 03

  Because stuffing, a lot of stuffing's a meat-based.

• 3:56Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:56Speaker 03

  So it's sausage meat. Essentially having sausages.

• 3:59Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:59Speaker 03

  Flavored sausages with maybe your bit of chips and your bit eaten. So I can see how that can work, yeah.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  So what are your key things for stuffing?

• 4:07Speaker 03

  Um, I, I like, I do a nut in there, fruit in there. But we do do a veggie stuffing. I do a spinach stuffing on Christmas Day with um ricotta, parmesan and a few breadcrumbs. And that goes down a storm.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Remember the one that you did for Florence, which was apricot, sausage, sage and almond?

• 4:25Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, the sage, you need the sage in that, that was good. You should do that this Christmas.

• 4:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's easy.

• 4:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, is it actually?

• 4:32Speaker 03

  Sausage is easy. So take your sauce, buy some nice sausages, normal fennel sausage, it can be there. Take them out their skin. You can do that or buy the sausage meat. Add in some chopped almonds, some chopped apricots, some sage. Seasoning.

• 4:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:46Speaker 03

  Few herbs, maybe a bit of rosemary, maybe some parsley. That's it.

• 4:49Speaker 02

  And just put it in a baking tray?

• 4:50Speaker 03

  Put it in a baking tray or mould it back into like a log shape, wrap it in foil with some butter and cook it in the oven. Done.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  How long?

• 4:58Speaker 03

  About 20 minutes, half an hour. Yeah, easy, done.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  Okay, well, we've liberated stuffing, so should we get Jordan Stevenson?

• 5:04Speaker 03

  Definitely.

• 5:04Speaker 02

  Let's do it.

• 5:07Speaker 03

  Hi, how are you?

• 5:09Speaker 02

  How you doing? Absolute pleasure.

• 5:10Speaker 05

  Hi Jordan.

• 5:11Speaker 03

  I like boys.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  How am I here?

• 5:13Speaker 05

  Yes, good, I'm all right. Thank you for the invite.

• 5:14Speaker 02

  Thanks for coming to see us.

• 5:15Speaker 03

  Pleasure.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  I'm buzzing.

• 5:16Speaker 03

  Sit yourself down.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  I'm very buzzing from what I can see on this table.

• 5:19Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Oh my god. Angelae, talk us through this recipe, how you made these?

• 5:22Speaker 03

  Oh, my croissants, I made this morning, first thing.

• 5:25Speaker 02

  You legitimately made that, did you? No way, because they're hard to make.

• 5:30Speaker 03

  They are hard.

• 5:31Speaker 05

  I remember vividly, because I love croissants, I would, if I had the time, I would do a side project, croissant con ceau. I'd go around the whole world, taste testing croissants, I'd have five measurements of, of quality.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  What are they?

• 5:43Speaker 05

  Well, it would be like softness, you know, crispness around the edges, uh sweetness.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Maybe aeration.

• 5:50Speaker 05

  Aeration, size, you know what I mean, this kind of thing. I have, I have, I know where my favourite croissant in the world is, but we can get on to that.

• 5:56Speaker 02

  We will.

• 5:56Speaker 05

  But I, I Googled it, and I'll put it on YouTube, how to make a croissant.

• 6:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:01Speaker 05

  And the top comment is, sometimes in life you just realise things aren't worth doing.

• 6:07Speaker 05

  And it was like, and the people watching the video going like, you, good luck with that.

• 6:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:11Speaker 05

  Because it is, it's arduous.

• 6:13Speaker 03

  Do you feel yours or are you plain?

• 6:14Speaker 05

  No, no, I like plain.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Plain.

• 6:15Speaker 05

  Have one, please.

• 6:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:17Speaker 02

  I'm gonna try one. Not made, but purchased.

• 6:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 6:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have one, Ange?

• 6:21Speaker 03

  I'll have a bit with you, Sharon.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, go on, have a little bit, yeah. It's the classic dinner party style.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, it is, there we go.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  And we've also got with an Earl Grey as well.

• 6:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, of course you can.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  It's warm to start with.

• 6:30Speaker 05

  We've also got an Earl Grey.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Earl Grey.

• 6:32Speaker 05

  An Earl Grey tea, what's an Earl Grey tea? This is the best podcast ever.

• 6:37Speaker 05

  That's good.

• 6:38Speaker 03

  Mmm.

• 6:39Speaker 02

  Hey, I never have a note grey as well. I love a note grey.

• 6:41Speaker 05

  Is this from a... You bought this?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Waitrose.

• 6:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, Waitrose.

• 6:45Speaker 05

  Of course. But is it like a Waitrose like packet? Or is it like fresh from the bakery?

• 6:50Speaker 02

  Gales in Waitrose.

• 6:52Speaker 05

  No, that's not Gales. That's a Gales.

• 6:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:54Speaker 05

  Warmed up.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, warmed up.

• 6:56Speaker 05

  I thought I would have guessed the taste of Gales.

• 6:58Speaker 02

  I like the...

• 7:01Speaker 03

  And where's your favourite country to eat a croissant?

• 7:03Speaker 05

  Hungary.

• 7:04Speaker 03

  Wow, I was not expecting that.

• 7:07Speaker 05

  Right.

• 7:07Speaker 03

  You see the seriousness about Hungary.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Really serious.

• 7:10Speaker 05

  In fact, I would go as far as to say I don't think that croissants are actually from France.

• 7:15Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 7:16Speaker 05

  I actually think the history... I think they're Austrian.

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Are they?

• 7:20Speaker 05

  I have to...

• 7:20Speaker 03

  That may be true. That could be. I could have believed that.

• 7:24Speaker 05

  I think they've been adopted in French culture. And obviously I've had some great croissants in Paris. But the best croissant I've ever had is in Budapest.

• 7:32Speaker 03

  Right.

• 7:33Speaker 05

  Ever. And I tell everyone about it. And is there a bakery called Vaj?

• 7:44Speaker 02

  I love Vaj. Yeah, I love Vaj.

• 7:46Speaker 03

  I've not tried Vaj, have you? Never tried it?

• 7:49Speaker 05

  No.

• 7:49Speaker 03

  Let's get it over with.

• 7:50Speaker 05

  We really recommend it.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  Those different sessions, yeah. What a bakery!

• 7:54Speaker 05

  Very warm, very soft.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, okay, who's right?

• 7:56Speaker 03

  Brilliant.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Brilliant.

• 7:59Speaker 05

  Serious. That is the Hungarian word for butter.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  Oh. Ah, okay.

• 8:06Speaker 02

  Come on, guys. We're talking about international cuisine here. Shall we welcome our guest, Anne?

• 8:12Speaker 03

  Yes, for sure.

• 8:13Speaker 02

  Okay, let's welcome a man who can do it all, truly. An author, musician, a presenter, an actor of stage and screens.

• 8:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  A man who's specially subject on Mastermind was The Life and Times of Ross Geller. He really does it all. Thanks everybody. Hi Jordan.

• 8:31Speaker 03

  Hi Jordan.

• 8:31Speaker 02

  Hello.

• 8:32Speaker 03

  Hi.

• 8:32Speaker 02

  Welcome.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Nice to have you.

• 8:35Speaker 05

  Thank you. Nice to be here. It's very homely and Christmas.

• 8:38Speaker 02

  Well, this is not normally where we do Dish.

• 8:40Speaker 05

  Uh huh.

• 8:40Speaker 02

  This is our different spot, but it's why it feels constantly, feels the same.

• 8:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't think people would have clocked on.

• 8:46Speaker 02

  No, we'll edit that out.

• 8:49Speaker 02

  How are you? How is life? How is everything going?

• 8:51Speaker 05

  Good, yeah. It's been an incredibly busy year.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:54Speaker 05

  So I'm actually looking forward to a little break, of course. Especially the Christmas gooch. You don't know about the Christmas gooch?

• 9:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, the little bit.

• 9:02Speaker 05

  It's been Christmas and New Year.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 05

  It's especially quiet.

• 9:04Speaker 02

  Because some people get really depressed about that bit, but I love that time.

• 9:08Speaker 05

  It's great.

• 9:08Speaker 02

  It's amazing.

• 9:09Speaker 05

  It's fantastic. You're eating leftovers.

• 9:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  You know, you're planning.

• 9:12Speaker 03

  Chilling.

• 9:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, chilling, waiting to make your resolutions that you're never gonna potentially keep.

• 9:17Speaker 03

  Watching TV all day.

• 9:18Speaker 05

  Watching TV. That's my vibe.

• 9:19Speaker 02

  And what are your plans at Christmas?

• 9:21Speaker 05

  We're hosting Christmas this year.

• 9:23Speaker 03

  Oh, how many have you got?

• 9:25Speaker 05

  Jade's family are coming down and there's probably like seven. Okay. Eight. And then like I've probably got two or three or four coming from my side. So it'll be cool. I mean, it's either ours or up in the North East.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  Your North East.

• 9:39Speaker 05

  In Shield, which I do actually really love.

• 9:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 9:41Speaker 05

  And I haven't been there that much this year, which makes me sad. So it's bittersweet, but ultimately I don't have to.

• 9:46Speaker 03

  And who's cooking? You or Jade?

• 9:48Speaker 05

  Jade.

• 9:49Speaker 03

  Oh, she's doing it all.

• 9:50Speaker 05

  Jade has got very good at cooking to the point where it's like, yeah, I feel like a bit, I need to get my game up. Because she wasn't that good when we first met and she's really up the levels.

• 10:02Speaker 03

  She's up to game.

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Well, she was very, she came on here and she was very passionate, as we know about roast.

• 10:07Speaker 05

  Yeah. I mean, Roche, she's always cooked roast.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:08Speaker 05

  Don't get that twisted.

• 10:09Speaker 02

  So I guess like this is her sort of, this is her like.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  It's a big roast, isn't it?

• 10:13Speaker 02

  Can I give you? Cooking a roast on Christmas Day is like.

• 10:16Speaker 05

  Can I tell you something funny that happened yesterday? I don't even know if she wants me to say this, but I have to say it's just so funny. She.

• 10:25Speaker 05

  In the build up to Christmas, she like banned roasts in the house.

• 10:32Speaker 05

  She was like, last weekend, she was like, this is the last roast. She said, it's the last roast because the next roast is gonna be Christmas. And it's gonna be lit. But then yesterday, she was like, where did I go? Like, I can't remember where I went. I had like, I was craving for something else. I wanted to get some Nigerian food. So I just said to whoever was in the house, I was like, look, I'm gonna order a Nigerian. Like, what are you guys saying? You know, some soya. And she was like, okay, yeah, cool. Well, no, we're just gonna cook some chicken and potatoes.

• 11:01Speaker 05

  I was like, a roast? She went, no, no, no, no, no. It's like, I looked at her and went, Jade, will there be gravy?

• 11:07Speaker 02

  She's like, yeah.

• 11:09Speaker 05

  And then Holly, her best friend, was just like, Jade, it's a roast. It's a roast. No, no, what is the food? It'll go to waste. The food is gonna go to waste.

• 11:18Speaker 02

  I love the idea of like, abstinence from a roast in the lead up.

• 11:22Speaker 03

  That's a great idea, actually.

• 11:24Speaker 05

  Can't be taking that for granted.

• 11:25Speaker 02

  No.

• 11:25Speaker 05

  You would need to crave the roasties.

• 11:27Speaker 03

  You need to, yeah.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  What do you think is the best thing on the roast that Jade does?

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, her roasties are great. That's like the thing she focuses on the most. And I think she said that one here. I think she said that it's a casual snack.

• 11:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 11:40Speaker 05

  Which is, which is also true. I do hope that my mum can cook some of the veg on Christmas. She's a great cook. And she does a great caramelized parsnip, you know what I mean? Sometimes sprinkles a little bit chili on them, unexpected times when the carrots, you know? But I have, I am a very fast eater, so I have to consciously try and eat slowly.

• 11:59Speaker 03

  Right, okay.

• 12:02Speaker 02

  Shall we do your food likes and dislikes? We always like to do this with our guests right at the beginning.

• 12:06Speaker 05

  Cool.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  So let's do this. Sometimes our guests don't remember writing this, so I always like this bit. And your likes are croissants, voila, and Caribbean chicken, rice and peas, salt fish, sushi, Nigerian soya.

• 12:19Speaker 05

  Soya, yeah.

• 12:20Speaker 02

  Soya, Nigerian soya, Jollof rice, spicy things, spices. But then also, plain Jacob's crackers, just plain.

• 12:30Speaker 05

  Yeah, I throw it in there.

• 12:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  And apple based desserts.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Apple based desserts.

• 12:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  Fish.

• 12:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, fish is good.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  Love fish, yeah. Only one dislike, French cuisine.

• 12:43Speaker 05

  Just, just one.

• 12:45Speaker 03

  Every French.

• 12:46Speaker 02

  I thought I just.

• 12:47Speaker 05

  Just friends.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  Just friends.

• 12:49Speaker 05

  No, listen, listen.

• 12:50Speaker 03

  Just the whole nation.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  Just friends.

• 12:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, no, I guess I say it because I knew that I'd be like.

• 12:59Speaker 05

  I obviously just, I'd like to disclaimer it by saying I love garlic and butter.

• 13:02Speaker 02

  Yes, yes.

• 13:03Speaker 05

  Great, great additions to any recipe.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 13:05Speaker 05

  Big garlic fan. But, but I, I think if I was to make a list of, of national cuisines, I'm just saying.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  It wouldn't be up there in your top 10.

• 13:15Speaker 05

  I don't eat red meat, so steak, I'm not that bothered about.

• 13:17Speaker 03

  Makes sense.

• 13:18Speaker 05

  Um, you know, sure, I'll try snail, I'm not, I'm not stressed, but um, I'm not like, I just, I don't know. The variation doesn't.

• 13:27Speaker 03

  Doesn't go for you.

• 13:28Speaker 05

  I don't know, what do you get, please enlighten me, what, what else is going on at a French restaurant other than creme brulee, a steak, what's for starters, bread?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Bread.

• 13:35Speaker 03

  Bread.

• 13:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 03

  Nobody is meat, heavy meat based, they do do a few salads and stuff, they do, you need to go to the right French restaurant.

• 13:43Speaker 05

  A niçoise salad.

• 13:44Speaker 03

  Niçoise salad.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  I like niçoise salad.

• 13:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, that would work.

• 13:47Speaker 05

  No, I'll have, in fact, aside from that, that's a great salad.

• 13:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's great salad.

• 13:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's up there.

• 13:52Speaker 02

  I remember one of our friends saying that a, a step mum, um, is French. And so she'd go and visit her a lot and she was like, yeah, it is nice to go and everything, but famously, it's like the food's so bad in France, isn't it? I was like.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  Is it?

• 14:05Speaker 05

  Those are my words.

• 14:06Speaker 03

  Is it really?

• 14:07Speaker 05

  I'm just saying.

• 14:07Speaker 02

  She was like, yeah. She's vegan and all, so I think it's tougher for her then, because they're like, there's some places as a vegan where you're not.

• 14:14Speaker 05

  You're not working.

• 14:15Speaker 03

  You just bake a cheese sandwich, which isn't even vegan.

• 14:18Speaker 05

  No, but I had it, when I was a kid, I went to Brazil when I was like 15 years old and I was a vegetarian at the time. They literally didn't understand what that was. Like, I remember asking specifically for a cheese, well, like, quiche, I was just like, quiche, only quiche, you know? And it'd bite into this ball and a piece of ham would come out, you'd be like, Jesus. And then one time, they were like, do you eat chicken? I was like, oh, no, and I was like, and they're like, oh, uh, hmm. And I was like, is that a problem? And they're like, no, no, no, no, okay. And so about 45 minutes later, my cousin has a chicken with extra blood sauce, by the way.

• 14:50Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Which is fascinating. And, uh, they just gave me an artichoke.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  That was, that was yours.

• 14:57Speaker 05

  As a 15 year old, just an entire artichoke. Not, not an artichoke heart, not artichoke hearts.

• 15:03Speaker 03

  The actual cooked artichoke.

• 15:05Speaker 05

  Just a cooked artichoke.

• 15:06Speaker 03

  And understand how to.

• 15:07Speaker 05

  I didn't know what the [bleep] was. Like, I didn't know you had to eat the end of the spoon, kind of thing. And then you leave the, I'm chewing on spikes, I don't know what's going on. What'd you do? Just have that. It's like a weapon.

• 15:22Speaker 03

  I can't believe I didn't tell you.

• 15:24Speaker 05

  No direction on artichoke. At fifteen.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  And, and then you have experience of kitchens as well, didn't you work in like a Greyhound?

• 15:34Speaker 05

  Yes, I did.

• 15:35Speaker 02

  What was it, like a Greyhound racing thing?

• 15:37Speaker 05

  I forget all the things I put in my book, this is, this is good, this is fun. Yeah, my last job before getting a record deal was working in the fast food kitchen in the Greyhound stadium. Corals, to be precise, in Hove. And the boss did not like me, which is a long, is it a long story? Anyway, he didn't.

• 15:54Speaker 03

  Why do you think he didn't like you?

• 15:58Speaker 05

  Well, I, I-

• 15:59Speaker 03

  You're very likeable.

• 16:00Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 16:00Speaker 03

  Isn't that very strange?

• 16:01Speaker 05

  I mean, I am a lot older now.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 03

  You know what I mean, he's very, he was-

• 16:05Speaker 05

  Well, we would, you know, we would obviously, I don't know if he got annoyed about how much of the food we'd eat.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Yep. And how old were you, like fifteen?

• 16:12Speaker 05

  Yeah, sixteen, yeah, but we had a dispute, basically, and the way I can put it is, like, I'm quite pedantic, which isn't a likeable trait, often. And so I can't let things die if they don't make sense to me. There was one, one day, on my seventh shift, I remember this specifically because of what happened. On my seventh shift, I turned up fifteen minutes late, right? And he went, Jordan, this is ridiculous, like, you're fifteen minutes late for work. I went, dude, I'm so sorry, I know, like, it won't happen again, it's just the first time it's happened. And he went, yes, but it's your seventh shift, so this means you're, you're late every one in seven times.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  And I went, unfortunately, that's not mathematically accurate. You'd have to, I'd have to have had twenty-eight shifts and be late four times for you to have an average like that. You can't, you can't.

• 17:02Speaker 02

  And that's why he didn't like you?

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Yes, okay.

• 17:05Speaker 05

  And then from that point, he just had it, he had it in for me. He was fuming from then. And then there's actually one point where I walked in, I remember on like, it was, you know, you'd always try and get Sunday shifts because it was like double pay, or like, not double pay, but like more pay.

• 17:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 17:18Speaker 05

  One day I walked into him and I said, I'm not coming into work tomorrow. And he went, okay, why? I went, I've got a record deal. And he went, okay, bye. And that was it.

• 17:28Speaker 03

  Seriously.

• 17:29Speaker 05

  See you later.

• 17:29Speaker 02

  No questions.

• 17:30Speaker 05

  No, no congratulations, like nothing, just like, in a bit. Okay, see you later.

• 17:35Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 17:36Speaker 05

  Oh my god, this looks good.

• 17:38Speaker 03

  Hold on, I've got some little breads to go with this.

• 17:41Speaker 05

  Yeah, that was my last job. And before that, I had a brief stint in a vegetarian burger restaurant called Red Veg, which was actually really, really amazing. I don't know what happened to it, but that's where I met the guy. The guy who worked there was my first ever mentor in the youth centre.

• 17:57Speaker 02

  Oh wow.

• 17:57Speaker 05

  And he kind of really encouraged me and taught me how to rap, gave me my first beat CD. I owe him a lot. And that was literally because we went in to get a burger, me and my mum, and he overheard us talking about me making music and he went, you should come along to the youth centre, yeah.

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Wow, fantastic.

• 18:12Speaker 05

  And now I'm the patron of that youth charity, Audioactive, and that's tied into another campaign I'm in with youth music called Rescue the Roots, which is all because of how important that space was to me as a child.

• 18:24Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 18:25Speaker 03

  Well, that's brilliant.

• 18:26Speaker 02

  I love that.

• 18:26Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's great. And this is why we advocate for, you know, like, opening youth centres rather than closing them. And we're having to crowdfund a lot to like keep some of these open. But yeah, man, it was, Brighton Youth Centre was great, Audioactive's great, you know, so more power to them.

• 18:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love that, that.

• 18:43Speaker 03

  That's brilliant.

• 18:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, man. Food brings people together.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  Okay, food is here.

• 18:49Speaker 03

  So we have a saffron cardamom chicken with cranberry and almond salsa, and this is a recipe by Noor Murad.

• 18:57Speaker 05

  Any recommendations on how to do it?

• 18:59Speaker 03

  No, just go for it. And then you can have a little bit of yogurt on the side.

• 19:02Speaker 02

  A bit of this?

• 19:03Speaker 03

  And then we've got a little bit of spiced cabbage as well.

• 19:06Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 19:07Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 19:07Speaker 05

  Yogurt on the side, is that an intention, like, that's not for the spice?

• 19:11Speaker 03

  No, no, no, that's fine if you want that. And then you've got some little breads there as well. So buttery greens and flatbreads with it as well.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  Delicious. Oh my god, this looks, smells amazing, Ange.

• 19:22Speaker 05

  I really like this.

• 19:24Speaker 02

  Oh my god. So tell us about this, Ange, because you've got amazing crispy skin on that chicken.

• 19:28Speaker 03

  So it's basically, you take your chicken thighs, season them up, and then roast them in a little bit of olive oil. So nice, nice crispy skin, that's what you want. Then once you've coloured all your chicken thighs, skin side up, then remove them from the pan, and then you add in your onions, garlic, you've got some bay leaf, you've got saffron, cardamom.

• 19:50Speaker 05

  Is the saffron, what's giving it kind of like an airy? Um, I don't know how to describe the.

• 19:56Speaker 03

  Like, it's sort of a sweet sort of flavour to it.

• 19:58Speaker 05

  Okay, sweet, okay.

• 20:00Speaker 02

  A bit, slightly perfume.

• 20:03Speaker 03

  So it's not supposed to be spicy as in heat, it's spice as in, you've got cardamom and cinnamon in their bay leaf and the saffron. So it gives it that warmth spice rather than pop.

• 20:12Speaker 05

  I love cinnamon.

• 20:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that all goes in there, roasted down with the onions and garlic. Then you add some apple cider vinegar, a little bit of caster sugar and some chicken stock.

• 20:23Speaker 05

  Very good, this is very good for the soul and body.

• 20:26Speaker 02

  Mmm.

• 20:27Speaker 03

  Um, and then it goes back in the oven with the chicken thighs, cooks for about thirty five to forty minutes. Take the lid off and then let it colour up, um, even more crispy skin and let the sauce reduce down.

• 20:38Speaker 05

  Cranberries are a real touch.

• 20:39Speaker 03

  And then in the salsa, you've got cranberries, basil, dill, chives, flaked almonds, and a little touch of olive oil where you roast off your nuts. And so that's like a dry salsa, just to add a little bit of sweet and nutty to it.

• 20:51Speaker 02

  I like a dry salsa.

• 20:52Speaker 05

  You've got to remember to roast off the nuts.

• 20:54Speaker 03

  You've got to have your nuts roasted off, yeah.

• 20:56Speaker 02

  Really great. And then how did you do the skin all crispy?

• 20:59Speaker 03

  Basically in a pan, olive oil, and you just keep it there for about three or four minutes, nice and crispy. And then you turn it over, cook it on the non crispy side for about two minutes. But when you, when you took the, when I took the lid off there, that's when it crisped up in the oven as well. So a final sort of ten minutes in the oven.

• 21:15Speaker 05

  Right, this is really good.

• 21:16Speaker 03

  Good, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

• 21:18Speaker 05

  A bit of bread as well.

• 21:19Speaker 03

  A bit of bread, flatbreads, yeah.

• 21:21Speaker 02

  There's also a wine pairing, which is a white wine pairing.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry, it's French, Jordan, but you don't drink, so you're fine.

• 21:28Speaker 05

  I get it with the wine, I guess, but I'm not a wine drinker anymore.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:31Speaker 05

  And when I was, I didn't care.

• 21:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 21:35Speaker 05

  And swag is not.

• 21:36Speaker 02

  Didn't they?

• 21:37Speaker 05

  Wine, yeah, great.

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I love it.

• 21:39Speaker 05

  Rioja, is it?

• 21:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love it. So there's a wine pairing with this, Ange, what have we gone for?

• 21:44Speaker 03

  So we've gone for an off dry Chenon Blanc, um, which is a lovely white wine, goes with saffron, cardamom chicken. Floral fruity notes in these wines create a harmonious pairing.

• 21:54Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, like us.

• 21:56Speaker 03

  I would say we're a harmonious pairing.

• 21:58Speaker 02

  Um, if you want to try this dish at home, all the ingredients that we've used today. You can get online and you can get the recipe on waitrose.com forward slash dish recipes.

• 22:06Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:07Speaker 05

  That's so cool.

• 22:08Speaker 02

  This is really tasty Ange, thank you so much.

• 22:10Speaker 03

  Thanksy more if you want some.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Um, okay, so before we chat more to you Jordan, we've actually got a question from a listener.

• 22:16Speaker 05

  Oh, cool.

• 22:16Speaker 02

  Which I thought you'd like, um, because we wanna talk about dogs.

• 22:19Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 22:19Speaker 02

  Um, obviously key to you, key to the book.

• 22:22Speaker 05

  It's in the book's title.

• 22:23Speaker 02

  It's in the book's title, exactly, yeah. Uh, you're Spike and Mimi.

• 22:26Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 22:27Speaker 02

  I've got Pig and Stinky Blob.

• 22:29Speaker 03

  Otis, Otis and Betty.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  Betty. Otis I feel like doesn't get enough press on Dish.

• 22:34Speaker 03

  I know.

• 22:34Speaker 02

  Betty does. Betty gets a lot of press on Dish.

• 22:37Speaker 05

  Why is, why is Otis being left behind?

• 22:39Speaker 03

  He's not being left behind, but Otis, he's in the background because he likes to play it in the background. He's, we call him a gentle, no, no, we call him a gentle soul. He's older now, Otis, and if there's too many people in the room, he sort of gets himself off the chair and goes out the room. He's like, I don't wanna sit and listen to you lot.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Pig's gone a bit like that now. Pig's like, whatever.

• 22:59Speaker 05

  How old is Pig?

• 23:01Speaker 02

  Don't know, cause she's, um, rescue, so we don't know how old she was. I've had her 11 years.

• 23:07Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's a long time, bro.

• 23:08Speaker 02

  Nearly 12 years.

• 23:10Speaker 05

  Wait, I've not met Stinky.

• 23:11Speaker 02

  You have, no?

• 23:12Speaker 05

  No.

• 23:13Speaker 02

  You've met the little Stinky Blob?

• 23:14Speaker 05

  Uh-uh.

• 23:14Speaker 02

  Last time someone came around who'd not met him, he came down the stairs and they went, what is that?

• 23:19Speaker 03

  Oh, no.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  That's cause his face is all a bit like that.

• 23:22Speaker 05

  What, Stinky?

• 23:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's got mad face, Stinky.

• 23:24Speaker 05

  Why, why, why is his face mad?

• 23:26Speaker 02

  He's got underbite and his back legs are higher than his front legs, so he's like.

• 23:32Speaker 05

  Why, why, is he a rescue?

• 23:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, they're both rescues, yeah.

• 23:35Speaker 05

  I like that.

• 23:35Speaker 03

  And how many dogs have you and Jay got?

• 23:37Speaker 05

  Two, Spike and Mimi, two rescues.

• 23:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 23:39Speaker 05

  Um, Spike's about eight, so I wanna say eight or nine, and Mimi's three or four.

• 23:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. And could you have brought them here today?

• 23:46Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  Yeah? And they're like, cool. Cause I've met Spike.

• 23:49Speaker 05

  Spike is ridiculously calm. Mimi's, she doesn't really, um, love new people, she's very cautious. But once you're in, she's lovely. She likes women more than men and, and, but like, it's, it's, it's a, you know, and I, I kind of had to learn from her a little bit in that, like, I'm very much like Spike or I'm a bit of a Labrador kind of, I just go, hey, how you doing? Ah, and Mimi's like, what are you saying? What are we up to here? Yeah, let me figure you out first.

• 24:13Speaker 03

  Prove yourself.

• 24:14Speaker 05

  Save it there for me. Let me smell you. So, uh, they're very different like that, but they're, but they're brother and sister. They love each other. They wrestle all day. It's really cute. Um, and Mimi, like honestly, the journey she's been on, she wouldn't even let me touch her for the first three days.

• 24:26Speaker 03

  Well, that's awful.

• 24:28Speaker 05

  And now she's just the most loving, like gorgeous dog. Yeah. So very much pro rescue.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  And anyway, the reason we want to talk about dogs is because, well, we like them, but also, um, we had this email from Jake. And he said, hi, dish team. After listening to the recent episode with Bob Mortimer. Oh, we loved him.

• 24:46Speaker 05

  Sorry.

• 24:46Speaker 02

  The funniest man on the planet.

• 24:48Speaker 03

  He's brilliant.

• 24:48Speaker 02

  I.

• 24:49Speaker 03

  We love Bob.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  The best.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  It's just magic. It's just magic. It's just magic.

• 24:57Speaker 05

  It's just magic.

• 24:58Speaker 02

  Well, we had him on and, um, he answered the following question. We said, what is the best pasta name for a cat? And he said ravioli.

• 25:06Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 25:06Speaker 02

  And.

• 25:07Speaker 05

  What a shout.

• 25:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:08Speaker 05

  Yeah, quickly.

• 25:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, ravioli. And anyway, Jake has got in touch today. I thought you might be interested to meet our golden retriever, Ravioli. He's nearly two years old and his favorite food is cheddar cheese. We planned to call his future dog companion Rigatoni. Um, we just thought we'd like you to know, what are you saying, Jordan? Do you like the name ravioli for a pet?

• 25:26Speaker 05

  I like it. Rigatoni. Riggy. I'm trying to think of like the abbreviation.

• 25:31Speaker 03

  It's like the playground test. Riggy.

• 25:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, Riggy.

• 25:34Speaker 03

  Rigatoni. You'd end up probably going Tony, wouldn't you?

• 25:37Speaker 05

  Tony. Tony is a fantastic name for a dog.

• 25:40Speaker 03

  Tony's a good dog.

• 25:41Speaker 05

  Ravi, Ravi's cool. Ravi's a thing. That's a really a name. The best for me, the best dog names just undoubtedly are just really painfully human names, like Susan or something.

• 25:50Speaker 02

  I love that, yeah.

• 25:51Speaker 05

  You know, like all.

• 25:51Speaker 02

  Deborah.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, Deborah, brilliant. Ian.

• 25:54Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 25:54Speaker 02

  Steve. I did meet someone, cause I've got a pig and I met someone with their dog called Pig as well.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I like Pig.

• 25:59Speaker 05

  Pig is, Pig's up there for me, Nick. You've done a very good job with that. Pig is brilliant. Yes. I also would love a pig.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Love a pig.

• 26:05Speaker 05

  I would actually love a pet pig a lot.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  Yeah. My neighbours used to have a pig. I moved in and I didn't know they had a pig.

• 26:12Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  So kids on the street were obviously like, oh my God, there's a pig on the street.

• 26:17Speaker 05

  Was he walking the pig?

• 26:18Speaker 02

  So they'd come and knock on my door and be like, oh, excuse me, can we meet your pig? And I'd be like, yeah.

• 26:24Speaker 05

  And then you get the dog again and they go.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  They go, that's a dog.

• 26:28Speaker 05

  Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on.

• 26:29Speaker 02

  But I didn't know there was a pig. So I was like.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  That's hilarious.

• 26:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know it's a dog. And they go, that's a dog. And then I was like, that was weird. And then a few days later, more kids knocked on the door being like, can we meet your pig? And I was like, you know, it's a dog. And they were like, what? So there was like a weird.

• 26:46Speaker 05

  This is unreal.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, it happened twice and they knocked on. And then I took the dog out and I bumped into my neighbour walking a pig. And I was like, oh.

• 26:57Speaker 03

  A pig met pig.

• 26:58Speaker 05

  So you named your dog Pig with no.

• 27:01Speaker 02

  No connection.

• 27:02Speaker 05

  That is brilliant.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  And then I didn't know they had a pig.

• 27:05Speaker 05

  That's actually incredible.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  And they had to get rid of the pig because you have to have a livestock licence.

• 27:08Speaker 05

  Really?

• 27:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 05

  Do you remember when they, do you remember there was a mass, like loads of people bought micro pigs? And there was one micro.

• 27:14Speaker 02

  And they weren't micro.

• 27:14Speaker 05

  Like Ariana Grande. She just bought a full.

• 27:17Speaker 02

  She did. She did support.

• 27:18Speaker 05

  A full hog. She got a full sized pig, bro.

• 27:21Speaker 03

  She's got a sow.

• 27:23Speaker 05

  Like, can you imagine? Dude, what's so funny is I just wish I'd had like a camera to see the moment when they go, dude, this pig's getting big, like.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  My pig is.

• 27:32Speaker 05

  Micro big.

• 27:33Speaker 02

  Micro. Micro.

• 27:36Speaker 05

  I know.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  We should talk about your book, please. Avoidance Drugs, Heartbreaking Dogs, because it's now out on paperback.

• 27:43Speaker 05

  Yes, it is.

• 27:43Speaker 02

  Congratulations.

• 27:45Speaker 05

  Thank you very much.

• 27:45Speaker 02

  And congratulations on this because it's done so well and started so many great conversations.

• 27:48Speaker 05

  I think so.

• 27:49Speaker 02

  And it's so, I mean, I messaged you several times about how much.

• 27:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, I really, it was so lovely that you supported me with that. Thank you.

• 27:56Speaker 02

  I think it's so well done and so well written because it feels like you and really honest. And it feels like a really radical way to write a book, I think.

• 28:05Speaker 05

  Well, yeah, I was trying. I mean, I just, I established quite soon into it that I had to be like painfully honest. Otherwise there wasn't much point. So I did that and that's, you know, people, I think it's good. My, my, it's like, you know, I think. I make a point at the beginning of the book that

• 28:24Speaker 05

  I already have like a kind of, I don't know how to word this about, like a trigger one or whatever. But like the idea of like public, I want to say self harm, but like maybe like self humiliation or something like that, the idea of like being a kind of court jester or, you know, having been a pop star. I'd already had some versions of of my pain being entertainment. So in an odd way, I was trying to reclaim that slightly by doing it consciously and knowing that it's only in those moments of pain where people experiencing pain can feel connected. Cause ultimately I'm vulnerable, they're vulnerable and that's what breeds connection. So that's why I wanted to make sure that I was brutally honest, otherwise what's the point?

• 29:09Speaker 05

  Like genuinely, what's the point?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  And did you know that from the very beginning? Or was that something that happened as you started writing it, you were like, hang on? Cause I found when I wrote, the easiest was the most honest. It was easier to process, but then actually it just like falls out of you because it's so honest.

• 29:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I, I don't know. I, I really don't know. I, I think I, I often found myself having like big writing sessions and then not really remembering massively what had been said. I had this structure before I started writing, which basically saved me. So I could just carry on writing whenever I wanted to. I knew roughly where I was. But it became such a cathartic thing for me that after the book, I had actually forgotten a lot of the things that had made my life difficult, like traumas, if you will, you know? To the point where I remember about six or six to eight months later, I was in a therapy session and I was complaining about something and I said to my therapist, oh, this happened and this and this really stressed me.

• 30:08Speaker 05

  I don't know why. And she was like, oh, well, that's because of that. Da da da da.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:12Speaker 05

  And I went, oh yeah. I had to like re-remember the trauma. I had to be like, okay, let me, you know, not to re-traumatize myself, but I have to obviously have a root of, okay, that's why that's happening, not because this specific thing's upsetting me. Um, so that was mad. They literally like writing it in a book.

• 30:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:29Speaker 05

  It made it fall out of my head.

• 30:31Speaker 03

  Did you, when, like, not reread it, but did you change anything?

• 30:34Speaker 05

  Uh, in the paperback, what's exciting about the paperback is there's a bonus chapter. And there's one thing I assumed I'd written about, which I hadn't at all. So the bonus chapter is about me losing my virginity, but I thought I'd already, I thought I'd already written about that in the book. So I remember, I was like, oh, what am I gonna write a bonus chapter about? I don't know how I would add to the conversation. Obviously, a lot of it's around sex and, and um, my understanding of it, like my complicated relationship with it. That's a big part of the book too. And then I, yeah, I was like looking through, I was like typing keywords into, into the, into the document. I was like, god damn, I didn't, even though it was all based around sexual experience, I'd never actually wrote about my first one. So, so, so I ended up having to do that as a bonus chapter, but I just completely, I would, if you had asked me,

• 31:18Speaker 05

  uh, if they'd said to me after the book came out, oh, I loved you talking about virginity, I'd be like, yeah, great.

• 31:22Speaker 02

  I enjoyed the chapter.

• 31:23Speaker 05

  Yeah, I really enjoyed writing that, yeah.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  I really enjoyed that, yeah, yeah. And then you wanna, you wanna write more, right? You, you've already got plans to, to, to do more.

• 31:31Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  And do you think you'll go down the fiction route?

• 31:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, I would love to. I think that's the ultimate test as, as a writer.

• 31:37Speaker 03

  Do you have authors you admire and read a lot?

• 31:41Speaker 05

  Well, actually, I think one of the biggest inspirations for this book is, is a poet called Naimeera Wahid, who wrote a book, a collection of poems called Salt. And I just can't explain it. It was that the concise nature of the way she writes, gave me the confidence to, obviously, one of the things about this book is it's written quite peculiarly, a lot of full stops, not many commas. And it was knowing that, you know, one of the great things about poetry is you can subvert forms and rules and you can shift and change. You can even. Put the writing in unusual shapes on the page, you know, and I love that. But can I say quickly, just as, as like a, to try and sell the book to listeners, just to give them an idea of what's in it, because it's come up a lot recently in conversations generally.

• 32:25Speaker 05

  And I think I, I wanna remind people, because it's important, I think that the story is about my journey into finding an ability to love and be loved, but via anger.

• 32:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:38Speaker 05

  Which I think is, is, is crops up a lot, because obviously there's a lot of public displays, I say, of rage. But for me, identifying a really healthy form of anger, like, literally changed my life. And especially as a man, I think the association, like, I, I've always imagined love and anger to be opposites, or people can't possibly perceive the idea of them coexisting.

• 33:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 33:00Speaker 05

  Where for me, I needed to understand that I could be angry with people I love in a healthy way, and that was what actually opened the doors. So I wanted to create a book where people could create a healthy association between love and anger, because that's something I didn't understand for a long time, and now I do. I get roast every Sunday off of Jade from Little Mix, so that's what I know.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  That's good, that's growth. That's growth. That's growth right there.

• 33:23Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  But it's so good. It's a great book, it really is. Jordan, should we do your fast food quiz?

• 33:30Speaker 05

  Yes, please.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  And this is quick fire.

• 33:32Speaker 05

  Okay, great.

• 33:32Speaker 02

  Okay, so think and answer. Okay, Jordan Stephens, what is your favourite sandwich filling?

• 33:38Speaker 05

  Oh, no.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  It used to be cheese plums, but I don't know what it is anymore. It's gone.

• 33:46Speaker 03

  It's gone.

• 33:47Speaker 05

  Chicken, I don't know, chicken salad.

• 33:49Speaker 02

  What's your favourite, oh, you should do this.

• 33:50Speaker 05

  No, wait, wait, wait, I got it. Peanut butter and banana.

• 33:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  Wow, well done. Okay, favourite way to eat eggs?

• 33:58Speaker 05

  Oh, scrambled.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  What's your favourite?

• 34:01Speaker 03

  No, it's just the way we.

• 34:02Speaker 05

  I know, because it's also hard boiled, you cut it in the middle, you put a bit of salt and pepper, add a little bit of chilli sauce.

• 34:07Speaker 03

  Eggs are difficult, there's so many ways to eat them, we all have them.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  What is your favourite form of potato?

• 34:12Speaker 05

  Jacky potato.

• 34:13Speaker 03

  Jacky, nice. Favourite herb?

• 34:15Speaker 05

  Oh, wait, is it, is garlic a herb? It's not, is it?

• 34:19Speaker 03

  We can give it, we'll give it.

• 34:21Speaker 05

  It's not a herb, is it?

• 34:21Speaker 03

  It's not, but we'll give it.

• 34:22Speaker 05

  Okay, wait, give me some herbs.

• 34:24Speaker 03

  Rosemary, coriander, basil, parsley, tarragon, mint, dill.

• 34:29Speaker 05

  Um, rosemary is cool.

• 34:32Speaker 03

  Rosemary, rosemary, we like rosemary.

• 34:34Speaker 05

  Sit out on a chicken.

• 34:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's always good.

• 34:37Speaker 05

  Favorite crisp or vinegar?

• 34:38Speaker 03

  Kitchen utensil.

• 34:40Speaker 05

  Or plum cocktail, sorry. Kitchen utensil, fork.

• 34:43Speaker 03

  A fork, I love that.

• 34:44Speaker 02

  What is the best chocolate bar on the market?

• 34:46Speaker 05

  Chocolate bar? Oh, man, I'm a, I'm a dark chocolate guy.

• 34:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:51Speaker 05

  Uh, seventy percent and upwards.

• 34:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yes.

• 34:53Speaker 05

  And I'm happy with that. There's a, there's a, I don't know if I can say the brand.

• 34:57Speaker 02

  You can.

• 34:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 34:57Speaker 05

  You know, they're called like Humman or something and they do like these almond butter in dark chocolate.

• 35:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, nice.

• 35:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, with like quinoa a little bit.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Okay, what's your favourite item on a roast?

• 35:08Speaker 05

  Everyone says roasties, but I wanna be, I wanna be different.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, be different.

• 35:11Speaker 05

  Broccoli, fight me, broccoli.

• 35:18Speaker 02

  So much has happened this year. If you miss me, of course, Rizzle Kick's been back, back on stage at Glastonbury as well, which I'm obsessed with.

• 35:24Speaker 03

  Busy, busy.

• 35:25Speaker 05

  It's been nuts.

• 35:26Speaker 02

  You've also been doing your, your play The Young Vic as well.

• 35:29Speaker 05

  Did do that, yeah.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  And the book.

• 35:31Speaker 05

  I also did my first ever documentary.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  You also did your first, oh, you did, yeah, Chalovon?

• 35:35Speaker 05

  I, I, it was funny, I, I, after the paperback came out, I was so high on the idea of writing books. I said to my agent, like, listen, I'm really gonna put aside three months, end of the year, I'm gonna knock out the beginning of the next book. And then literally within four weeks, I got these two offers, you know, one was documentary, one was an audition to play the titular role in a play. I never get theatre auditions. So I literally went down there just to be like, well, I can't say no to trying out for Sloane in Entertaining Mr. Sloane.

• 36:02Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:03Speaker 05

  And then I just so happened to have walked into a space where they were looking for somebody who hadn't necessarily done theatre. And then with the documentary, it was really in keeping with the work I've been doing around men and boys, so. Suddenly then, yeah, two debuts, yeah, and the play was really hard. Like, I definitely.

• 36:20Speaker 03

  Would you do it again? Did you like theatre?

• 36:22Speaker 05

  I, there were moments of it that I really enjoyed.

• 36:25Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:25Speaker 05

  Um, but it was a real, I think specifically because I'd come from another discipline.

• 36:31Speaker 03

  Right.

• 36:31Speaker 05

  And because I'd never performed for an audience that I couldn't engage with before.

• 36:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 36:35Speaker 05

  That threw me. I, just the fact that I just, I don't know, you know, I had all that muscle memory. Like you said, I've been playing stages all summer as well, that, this year. And was suddenly just in front of someone who could be, you know, like, just eating crisps, staring at me blankly. You know, like with music, you know, you have a rough idea of like, if you're losing, yeah, if you're losing the crowd slightly. You, I feel like there's a couple of moves, tricks that you can get to kind of get people back on side. Whereas in theatre, you could have two shows in a day, one show could be rocking. And the next show, if someone, this is what's mad, someone coughs on like an important piece of information or a punchline. You can lose a crowd for like an entire scene.

• 37:17Speaker 05

  That, that is, that level of randomness or lack of control, I really, I found it really confronting. It was, it was quite fascinating, but, um.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  And I tell you what, people love a cough in a theatre. They do. And they're one one's lot. I swear when one, I think it's like a nervous thing. Yeah.

• 37:34Speaker 05

  I, I mentioned on Miss Me that somebody had a camping flask that like.

• 37:37Speaker 03

  No way.

• 37:37Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, and it was just like.

• 37:39Speaker 03

  No.

• 37:41Speaker 05

  It was like, I was like, this is.

• 37:43Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 37:43Speaker 05

  And then, and then one teacher brought in, they, um, this is the one time I actually did go, this is too far. Like, I've heard.

• 37:51Speaker 03

  You said something, yeah.

• 37:51Speaker 05

  Pro, professional actors with more experience than me, like, I'm one play in, so I can't be turning around to an audience and saying shit. But like some other, you know, like Toby Jones or something could probably turn around and be like, shut up. And I'd be like, okay. But like, it is, it was one day, night where there was about twelve students in.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  Right.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  And five or six of them were on the front row and two of them were like out cold, like completely asleep.

• 38:16Speaker 03

  Asleep.

• 38:16Speaker 05

  The other two were, were busybodies and then the ones behind them were whispering. And I just was like, I said to the company manager, I'm so sorry, but don't kick them out, just put them.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Somewhere else.

• 38:26Speaker 05

  Where I can't see them.

• 38:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 38:28Speaker 05

  And then the teacher was, the teacher was mortified. I went, I'm so sorry, they just got off a flight from Hong Kong.

• 38:33Speaker 03

  I mean, why bring them?

• 38:34Speaker 05

  Why you bring them to the theatre then?

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Imagine straight off a flight.

• 38:38Speaker 05

  Can you imagine that?

• 38:39Speaker 03

  That's hell.

• 38:40Speaker 05

  Not gonna do any worse than a long, than a guy.

• 38:42Speaker 02

  Long haul flight.

• 38:43Speaker 05

  Yeah. Focus for two, two hours.

• 38:46Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 38:47Speaker 05

  Also, a play written in the 60s with ease, like, you know what I mean? Like, it was just, you know, for a young mind, let alone a young jet lagged.

• 38:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, it's too.

• 38:55Speaker 05

  No, not for me, man. Yellow card to that teacher.

• 39:00Speaker 05

  Thanks for the tickets, though. Thanks for the tickets. It's a subs of us there. It's a subs of us there. We appreciate the support.

• 39:05Speaker 02

  We appreciate that.

• 39:06Speaker 05

  Thanks.

• 39:09Speaker 02

  We come to the end of the show question, Jordan, for your chance to win the Waitrose Goody Bag. What you've got to do is answer this question.

• 39:15Speaker 05

  Waitrose Goody Bag?

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Waitrose Goody Bag, that's right.

• 39:17Speaker 03

  Oh, my God, it's so heavy.

• 39:18Speaker 05

  So they're hard to choke hearts in there?

• 39:20Speaker 02

  Oh, you bet, yeah.

• 39:21Speaker 05

  Don't put it next to me, what if I win it?

• 39:23Speaker 03

  We'll win it, come on, you'll win it.

• 39:25Speaker 05

  You'll win it, Jordan.

• 39:26Speaker 03

  Jordan, it's a nice fun podcast, not mean.

• 39:30Speaker 02

  Hi, Jordan.

• 39:31Speaker 05

  Hello.

• 39:32Speaker 02

  Your specialist subject on Mastermind was the life and times of Ross Geller. Here is the question you passed.

• 39:39Speaker 05

  No.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  For your chance to win the Waitrose Goody Bag.

• 39:41Speaker 05

  Is it the one about the keyboard?

• 39:42Speaker 02

  Please can you answer this question? Ross plays his unique brand of music to Phoebe and other bemused friends in The One Where Chandler Crosses The Line.

• 39:51Speaker 05

  I'm so dumb.

• 39:52Speaker 02

  What name does he give to his individual sound? Come on. You must have remembered the one you got wrong.

• 40:01Speaker 05

  See, I, I, I literally don't know. I remember, I remember. Oh, God.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Shall we charades it to you, like it's Christmas?

• 40:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 05

  Space, um.

• 40:12Speaker 02

  It's, I'll give you the clue.

• 40:13Speaker 05

  Yeah, go on.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  It's word.

• 40:15Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 02

  Word.

• 40:18Speaker 05

  Word.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  Woodless. Woodless?

• 40:21Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 40:22Speaker 02

  Woodless?

• 40:23Speaker 05

  No, I, you know, I.

• 40:24Speaker 02

  It's wordless sound poem.

• 40:26Speaker 05

  What, brilliant, yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 05

  I, I.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  If it helps, I've never heard that in my life.

• 40:31Speaker 05

  I struggled at the time.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 05

  I struggled now. When they told me the correct answer during Mastermind, I didn't listen.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I, I've never heard it.

• 40:39Speaker 03

  Never heard it.

• 40:39Speaker 05

  No, can I have a new, so am I officially the only person to not get the Waitrose Goody Bag question right?

• 40:45Speaker 02

  No, no, loads of people get it wrong, but we.

• 40:46Speaker 05

  Oh, you're kind, so we just give it to you.

• 40:48Speaker 02

  Oh, right.

• 40:48Speaker 05

  It's Christmas, it's Christmas. Yeah, the Goody Bag is yours, Jordan.

• 40:52Speaker 02

  Thank you so much.

• 40:53Speaker 05

  Thank you so much for the podcast.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Words with sound poem.

• 40:57Speaker 05

  We thought that would be like ingrained in your head.

• 41:00Speaker 02

  It's not.

• 41:00Speaker 05

  That was the one. No, it's the reason I got it wrong.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  I don't remember that being in France.

• 41:04Speaker 05

  No, of course. No, he does it and he has all the sound effects and it goes like.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  I remember that, but I don't remember wordless sound poem.

• 41:11Speaker 05

  Do you?

• 41:11Speaker 03

  I don't remember it as a title.

• 41:12Speaker 05

  It's a great episode.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  Yeah. Jordan, thank you so much.

• 41:15Speaker 05

  Thank you, guys.

• 41:16Speaker 02

  It's really nice to see you. Great to catch up.

• 41:18Speaker 05

  Legends you are.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Oh, well, thank you for coming to see us.

• 41:20Speaker 05

  Honestly, I feel blessed. I feel honoured. We feel blessed and honoured.

• 41:24Speaker 02

  Come see us and have a dead nice Christmas.

• 41:26Speaker 05

  You too. Enjoy.

• 41:27Speaker 02

  And a happy New Year.

• 41:28Speaker 05

  And a happy New Year.

• 41:29Speaker 02

  Enjoy the roast. Jordan Stevens.

• 41:32Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Thank you, Jordan.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  If that episode has left you wanting more, find us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Just search Dish.

• 41:50Speaker 03

  If you want to make any of the meals I cook on Dish, head to waitrose.com/dishrecipes for all the ingredients and the recipes.

• 41:59Speaker 02

  Email your questions, thoughts and suggestions to [email protected].

• 42:05Speaker 03

  Dish from Waitrose is a Cold Glass Production.

• 42:09Speaker 06

  Waitrose, the home of food lovers.