469: An Invitation for Chaos and Mayhem (w/ Sarah Urist Green!)

How should I display my signed prints? When did television start broadcasting throughout the entire night? What will you do on your book tour? Can you write about love in a way that makes you feel it? How do I host a potluck supper club for my Hinge dates? How should I prepare for the Hollywood, Ending book event? Why do we need to ask to go to the bathroom if we have human rights? How should I prepare for a football match? …John and Sarah Urist Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [email protected] Join us for monthly livestreams at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn Produced for Hank and John Green by Complexly See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Hank Green?

  You're listening to a Complexly podcast.

• 0:09John Green?

  Hello and welcome to Dear John and Hank.

• 0:12Speaker 02

  Or as I like to call it, Dear John and Sarah.

• 0:14John Green?

  It's a podcast where two spouses give you dubious advice, answer your questions and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. I am joined this week by my lovely spouse, Sarah Yerest Green. It's nice to see you.

• 0:26Speaker 02

  It's nice to see you, too. We've seen each other at many moments leading up to now, but it's nice to see you anew.

• 0:36John Green?

  Current me is on the road for the Hollywood Ending Tour, but past me is recording this right before leaving for the Hollywood Ending Tour. So if you hear a little bit of anxiety in my voice, that's because my book comes out in three days. Did you like it? I hope so. Did you like it?

• 0:51Speaker 02

  Of course I did.

• 0:52John Green?

  I'm just kidding.

• 0:54Speaker 02

  No, I really did.

• 0:54John Green?

  I'm constantly looking for-

• 0:55Speaker 02

  No, no, I really did.

• 0:57John Green?

  I know you did, but I'm constantly looking for outside affirmation. Sarah was the first person to read-

• 1:02Speaker 02

  This is a sensitive time for you.

• 1:04John Green?

  It's a sensitive time for me. My books are sort of ruined for Sarah in the sense that she has to read them all as first drafts.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  It's very difficult for me to like have a complete understanding of one of your books because I read early drafts.

• 1:18John Green?

  Right.

• 1:19Speaker 02

  I read different versions, like where part, half of it is a different story.

• 1:25John Green?

  Yeah.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  And then I have to hold it all in my head.

• 1:28John Green?

  Right.

• 1:29Speaker 02

  And remember what the finished book is like. And then I read the finished book and I really like it and I, and I've got it in my brain for like 10 days.

• 1:39John Green?

  Yeah, I'm the same way. I mean, people will ask me questions and I'll be like, is that still in the book? I thought I cut that.

• 1:43Speaker 02

  Right, right.

• 1:44John Green?

  Anyway, I hope you enjoyed Hollywood Ending. We're happy to be here with you. We're going to answer some of your questions, beginning with this one from Madeline, who writes, Dear John and Sarah, I recently had the honor of meeting a few actors at a convention. I feel really lucky to have my signed prints, but I'm not sure how to display them. They are all a size not conducive to being framed together, but I'm not sure if it's smart to frame them all separately, or is it? Any advices welcome. Best wishes, Madeline. Sarah, you-

• 2:08Speaker 02

  This is made for me.

• 2:09John Green?

  You are a professional framer.

• 2:11Speaker 02

  Well, I'm not a professional-

• 2:13John Green?

  Oh, sorry, sorry.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  But, I mean, I can frame. So, Madeline, you haven't told us what size. I'm wondering if they're headshots.

• 2:24John Green?

  I think they have to be, right?

• 2:25Speaker 02

  Headshots.

• 2:25John Green?

  Yeah.

• 2:26Speaker 02

  Okay, well, you gotta think about like an old fashioned steakhouse restaurant that's got all their like celebrity signed headshots on the wall. I definitely think you should frame them separately and display them in some sort of a grid or row or arrangement. You could, if you wanted, if you wanted to be really fun and fancy, but not expensive, go to a resale shop or a vintage shop and get some old frames and do like a variety. It should be a pretty standard size. Measure them first. Or just get a matching set. You can find really inexpensive ones. But the most important thing you'll do-

• 3:09John Green?

  Yeah.

• 3:10Speaker 02

  Is measure very carefully and make sure that they are hung in a straight, precise order.

• 3:21John Green?

  Equidistant from each other.

• 3:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:24John Green?

  That is very important. So we have a wall, we don't have a celebrity actor wall. I guess we do, a little bit. We have that picture of Cara Delevingne and I in Paris.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  Well, I put that up. You didn't want that up.

• 3:36John Green?

  I find it very embarrassing. But we have that picture along with our family pictures. That's what I think is so embarrassing, is it's like, here's a picture of our best friends and their kids, and here's a picture of my parents, and here's a picture of your uncle, and here's a picture of Cara Delevingne with my husband.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  It's great. It makes me laugh. It makes me laugh. It's very hilarious. I am a fan. Nobody asked me, but why don't I share since I'm here?

• 4:04John Green?

  Yeah.

• 4:04Speaker 02

  When you do a gallery wall, like a big wall of varying items at varying sizes.

• 4:10John Green?

  Yeah.

• 4:11Speaker 02

  I like to mix in things that are not like the other. Like, I like to mix in an artwork.

• 4:17John Green?

  Right.

• 4:18Speaker 02

  A certificate, some photos, some old photos, some new photos. I like things from different eras.

• 4:27John Green?

  You know what's framed on that gallery wall that I love? And I, I think that that gallery wall in our house, that's like a mix of art-

• 4:36Speaker 02

  It's in a stairwell.

• 4:37John Green?

  It's in a stairwell. And it's a mix of artworks and family photos and stuff, and being Cara Delevingne. I think that what makes it so magical is the way, is precisely that, the way you've included different stuff from different parts of our lives. So like, it has the, it has the picture of me when I won the Prince Award. It also has the letter that Bill Ott wrote me at Book List, saying, now more than ever, watch Harvey.

• 5:03Speaker 02

  Yeah. And it has like a birthday card I made for you, the first year we were together, like-

• 5:09John Green?

  I used to get great birthday cards from Sarah.

• 5:13Speaker 02

  That has passed.

• 5:16Speaker 02

  We went on a bike ride this year.

• 5:18John Green?

  Yeah, we went on a bike ride for my birthday. It was lovely. It was lovely. I don't need a card every year. You spend so much time on those cards. All right, we got another question from Nick, who writes, Dear Sarah and John, I'm lying in bed, struggling to fall asleep. I've been there, Nick. And I'm wondering, remember when TV used to end for the night?

• 5:35Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 5:36John Green?

  Like, they'd play the National Anthem and then it'd be nothing for hours until morning? Why and when did that begin? And why and when did it end? Do other countries do that too, or just the US, Sleepless in the Southeast, Nick? Do you remember that?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  You know, I feel like we just, I do have a dim memory of that, but I mostly remember my, my best friend growing up would always play Nick at night.

• 5:59John Green?

  Yeah.

• 5:59Speaker 02

  And would, and that would go all night.

• 6:03John Green?

  Okay.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  And like play old shows, you know?

• 6:07John Green?

  No, this was in the era before we, anyway, had cable.

• 6:12Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:12John Green?

  So like, there would be, there were like five channels, one of which signed off for the night after showing like a monster movie, like a B-movie from the 60s.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  And would it just be static? I can't remember.

• 6:24John Green?

  It would be like-

• 6:26Speaker 02

  Just like nothing.

• 6:27John Green?

  It would be either music playing over a blank screen.

• 6:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:31John Green?

  Or like the National Anthem and then just, I can't remember what it was. But at any rate, I do also dimly remember it. And what it made me think of, Sarah, is when the internet used to end. Like, in like 1994, 1995, I would go on the very early versions of the World Wide Web. And then you'd get to the end of the web.

• 6:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 6:52John Green?

  Like, you'd get to the end of whatever you were looking at.

• 6:55Speaker 02

  Right.

• 6:55John Green?

  I'm gonna, oh god, Sarah, something terrible's about to-

• 6:57Speaker 02

  Okay, I'll do it. You're gonna sneeze. Watch out.

• 7:00John Green?

  Oh, no.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  You know what that is?

• 7:02John Green?

  Not normal.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  Very, very normal.

• 7:05John Green?

  Nope.

• 7:05Speaker 02

  Very normal.

• 7:05John Green?

  It's not normal.

• 7:06Speaker 02

  Well, I know this is a thing-

• 7:08John Green?

  I never sneeze.

• 7:09Speaker 02

  -in your world, but I sneeze regularly and I think it's very helpful for expelling undesirables from your nose.

• 7:17John Green?

  No, I, I was told by a doctor that it is not normal to sneeze.

• 7:21Speaker 02

  Okay, all right. So I love the idea of things ending. It's like when I get my alert on my phone, that's like you have reached your, your limit that you've set for Instagram today.

• 7:36John Green?

  And then it's over.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  And then it's over. And I like that. I think what we're missing in this world-

• 7:42John Green?

  Is ending.

• 7:42Speaker 02

  Is endings, like not constant stream. And when someone stops streaming, another one picks up. Maybe, Nick, you need it to end to go to sleep.

• 7:55John Green?

  Maybe. I remember the thousand, I remember it like in like 2008, we had an early meeting with YouTube and they said there's a thousand minutes of content uploaded every minute.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:06John Green?

  And I realized that it was impossible to catch up with the internet. And now there's like, you know, millions of, of minutes of content uploaded every minute.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  Well, Nick's question is a historical question.

• 8:20John Green?

  Yeah.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  And we are not truly answering it.

• 8:23John Green?

  Well, I don't know the answer.

• 8:24Speaker 02

  I don't know the answer offhand. We could have done some research, but we didn't. Nick, I encourage you to do this research and to report back.

• 8:33John Green?

  Get back to us.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. Can you figure this out?

• 8:36John Green?

  Yeah.

• 8:36Speaker 02

  And, and John and Hank will share it.

• 8:38John Green?

  We're delegating.

• 8:39Speaker 02

  And we want to know, and, and how it happened in other countries. I want to know too. I'll read the next question.

• 8:46John Green?

  You read the next question.

• 8:47Speaker 02

  Okay. Dear Sarah and John, what will you do on your book tour if you don't like press tours and don't want to give away book spoilers?

• 8:58Speaker 02

  I am writing my own book and I'm afraid when I finally finish it, I won't have anything to say about it, even if I'm privileged enough for people to be asking me about it. Thanks, April.

• 9:09John Green?

  So, April, it is true that I don't love press tours, but I do do them. And I'm grateful to be able to do them because I remember vividly, as you do, Sarah, when no one wanted to talk to me about my book.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  Right.

• 9:21John Green?

  Like, a book would come out and that would be a regular Tuesday.

• 9:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 9:25John Green?

  And I would not have anything to do. I wouldn't go on the road. I wouldn't like, the first couple of books, I mean, you went with me to my, my first signing.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 9:33John Green?

  In, in the suburbs of Chicago.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  It was, it was uncomfortable, to put it lightly.

• 9:40John Green?

  I remember we got that-

• 9:41Speaker 02

  We went to, we went to Noodles and Company afterward. And I remember feeling like, oh, I, I'm still trying to shake off this awful feeling of having, having attended a, a book event where very few people attended.

• 9:54John Green?

  Only two. One of whom was my boss, but pretended to be a stranger. And I think that it's helpful to remember that because, I mean, look, Hollywood ending is in many ways a book about how uncomfortable the whole transaction is, where you commodify art and you turn, especially where you commodify your private experiences and turn them into movie tickets, or book sales, or Netflix subscriptions, or whatever you're trying to turn them into.

• 10:21John Green?

  That's not just a problem for authors, by the way. I think most of us now participate in that economy, one way or another, through Instagram, or TikTok, or whatever. But I do talk about the book. I try to talk about it without spoilers, which for me means not talking about anything that happens after like, page 20.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  Right. I have some practical advice when you're done.

• 10:43John Green?

  Yeah, give it to me.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  You, you, there's a tradition in book events and book promotion. You read a bit from the beginning.

• 10:52John Green?

  Usually the beginning.

• 10:53Speaker 02

  It doesn't have to be the first chapter, but it often is.

• 10:56John Green?

  Often is.

• 10:57Speaker 02

  Um, and then have someone else join you.

• 11:01John Green?

  Yeah.

• 11:01Speaker 02

  If you're doing an event, or some, or like, if you're streaming, or doing, you know, creating a video online, like, share your content, and then you have conversation partners on tour. And that's a great way to mix it up. And, you know, often authors write because they don't necessarily want to get up in front of a crowd and blast their ideas. So I think if you involve other people, other authors who are doing similar things, a musician, a poet, to share the stage, to share the promotional opportunity, and have a conversation with each other, have questions for them, they have questions for you.

• 11:44John Green?

  Right.

• 11:45Speaker 02

  You know.

• 11:46John Green?

  And then you can talk about like, the creative process, as well as talking about the content of the book itself. And I do think there are ways to talk about theme without spoiling a book. Like, I think, I think you can talk about the fact that we're all now participating in this weird attention economy, where we're competing for each other's eyeballs on platforms that are owned by five billionaires. Like, I think you can talk about that. And that's about Hollywood ending, but it's also, like, doesn't spoil the story at all.

• 12:13Speaker 02

  Right. I think it's very hard to do, but I think the idea is to have empathy for your audience, and to try to create a good experience for them.

• 12:24John Green?

  Yeah, I hope I don't screw that up, man, because so many people, like, they come from far away. That's what I think about every time, is like, people are driving, you know, an hour, two hours to get to the venue.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  But you do put on a show. I mean, I've, I've looked at your run of show. There's like, there's activities.

• 12:44John Green?

  There's bits.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  There's bits. And I think, you know, obviously, you're trying to share your work, and sell some books, but like, there's also, I think you do a good job of understanding that people are there to be together.

• 12:59John Green?

  Yeah.

• 13:01Speaker 02

  To be in community, and to learn things. And, you know, I think you just, I think you have to understand that it doesn't have to be entirely about you and your book.

• 13:10John Green?

  No, in fact, the most interesting stuff that happens isn't about you, as, as, as the person on stage. Like, I think about that a lot with, like, Taylor Swift's fan community, or Phoebe Bridger's tour that you, you just went to.

• 13:22Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:23John Green?

  That, that most of what's interesting is in the interaction between, or among the audience.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  Right.

• 13:31John Green?

  Not the, not what's happening on stage.

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Like, what's your exchangeable bracelet moment?

• 13:38John Green?

  Yeah, a lot of people are bringing exchangeable bracelets, actually.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  Right. Well, and what is, what is the activity? Like, here, leave a note card on the seat, and have somebody, you know, and a pen, and have them write a particular thing that relates to something in the book, and exchange it with somebody in the audience, you know?

• 13:56John Green?

  That would have been nice. Why didn't you, why didn't you mention that to me before the tour? That's a good idea.

• 14:01Speaker 02

  Nobody asked me.

• 14:02John Green?

  I did. I did, to be fair. All right. This next question comes from Stella, who writes, Dear John and Sarah, I was talking with a friend, and she says that she believes you can't write about love within an intensity and strength that makes the reader feel and appreciate it. This is a great question. I disagree, and said I've read books, myself, where I was overcome with the emotion of love, like I was experiencing it. Do you think you can write about love with equal strength that you feel it? Can you name another author who can? Not a love letter, but a letter about love. Stella. The person who comes to mind immediately for me is Lily King.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  Yes, me too. Well, we've both been reading her work recently. Lily King's new, newish novel, Heart the Lover, is amazing.

• 14:42John Green?

  It's amazing.

• 14:42Speaker 02

  And it makes you, it makes you feel it. I mean, of course, it's different when you're, when you, when someone else, when you're witnessing someone else experience it.

• 14:53John Green?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  But it's still so good. And it may not be like, precisely the same, but I also don't think like, the experience of love is the same person to person.

• 15:04John Green?

  Right. I think that both of you are right, not to try to split the baby here, but like, I think that Stella's friend is right, that you don't feel, when you're reading a book, it's not quite like falling in love, but you do feel an echo of that. You feel, like, my friend Danielle Aragon once said that writing a novel is like, taking a fireworks show that happens in your mind, and trying to replicate it in language. And of course, like, something gets lost in that translation, from, from raw experience to language, something, you know, something is impoverished. But I think something is also enriched. So like, it's not the exact same feeling, but it is a really intense feeling.

• 15:49John Green?

  And for me, it's very similar. Like, when I was reading Heart the Lover, like, it reminded me of, the feeling I had in my stomach was not unlike the feeling I have in my stomach when I'm falling in love.

• 15:59Speaker 02

  Precisely. And it's that, it's that, it's the kind of book where you finish, and you're like, oh damn, like, I don't want it to be over. And I just recommended it to my friend Mari, and she, she texted me yesterday, and was like, I'm so sad it's over.

• 16:15John Green?

  Yeah. It's a great book. Yeah.

• 16:17Speaker 02

  Yes, you're both right. Sorry.

• 16:19John Green?

  You're both right. But I do think that it'll be interesting to see if people respond to Hollywood ending that way. Like, I hope they do, because I wanted to write about young love, like, the love we experience as adolescents, or in high school, is different from love in your early twenties, when you're really looking for those sustaining relationships that are gonna help you survive everything you have to survive.

• 16:43Speaker 02

  Right. There, because there's sort of the, the, I don't know, when you said that about younger love, like, I thought about the aspect of love that's like, someone likes me.

• 16:56John Green?

  Right.

• 16:56Speaker 02

  You know, like, I am worthy of love.

• 16:59John Green?

  Yes, yes.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  You know, that like, being chosen, and being accepted, and there's, I don't know, it just, it changes as you grow up, I think.

• 17:11John Green?

  Yeah, I definitely think that it's different. It's not any less real, or more real. It's just different. And so I wanted to write about that, that kind of love. The kind of love that, I, I was thinking a lot about when, when we fell in love, like, which did feel different from like, the first time I fell in love. But.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  Or the second, or the third.

• 17:35Speaker 02

  But John, John used to love to fall in love.

• 17:38John Green?

  Oh, I, I did. And now I love to fall in love just with the same person over and over again. But I definitely felt like our love, and we met when, you know, I was 24, 25, so similar age to the characters in Hollywood ending. And I felt like our love was a little more sustainable, if that makes sense.

• 18:02Speaker 02

  Right.

• 18:02John Green?

  A little less burning the candle at both ends.

• 18:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 18:05John Green?

  A little more like, oh, this is, this is a little more grown up.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  Yeah. A little more mature.

• 18:11John Green?

  And that's what I was looking for.

• 18:12Speaker 02

  We weren't mature, but.

• 18:13John Green?

  We thought we were.

• 18:15Hank Green?

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• 19:22Hank Green?

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• 20:04Hank Green?

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• 20:44Hank Green?

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• 20:56John Green?

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• 23:08Speaker 02

  Okay, um, this next question comes from Danielle. Dear Sarah and John, I want to host a potluck supper club for all my hinge dates.

• 23:20Speaker 02

  It would be for platonic purposes. A lot of people I've met seem like interesting people to be friends rather than date. I'm nervous though. How does one host a potluck supper club? What are the do's and don'ts? How do I help everyone feel comfortable when their only thing in common is going on dates with me? What if I'm not charismatic and fun enough to be the social hub? Unhinged Danielle.

• 23:42John Green?

  This is truly an unhinged idea Danielle, like this is truly epically unhinged.

• 23:47Speaker 02

  I like it.

• 23:47John Green?

  I love it.

• 23:48Speaker 02

  It's like an invitation for chaos and mayhem and complications. But you know what? I think, I think sometimes we need that in life.

• 23:57John Green?

  Especially if you date people of all genders and they date people of all genders. You could be in a situation where you're setting people up for love, even if you're not experiencing it yourself.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Right.

• 24:09John Green?

  You could be finding lifelong friends because what do you have in common? Well, you both liked Danielle, at least briefly.

• 24:15Speaker 02

  Um, I have an idea.

• 24:16John Green?

  Okay.

• 24:17Speaker 02

  I love, I love it if you did host it yourself, but was there one particular hinge date with someone who you could imagine being friends, like you would like as a friend? And you ask if they want to co-host it?

• 24:32John Green?

  Okay, but it's at your place.

• 24:34Speaker 02

  It's at your place, but like you kinda.

• 24:36John Green?

  Well, what if, I mean, if it's a potluck, don't you say to all your former hinge dates like, hey, bring some green bean casserole?

• 24:42Speaker 02

  Well, yes, but this is the structure. We don't want a table full of green bean casserole. So I think you do have to, here's what you do. You create a sign up list.

• 24:53John Green?

  Oh my God, Sarah's really making this complicated.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  No, it's not. It's easy. There's free sources. People use it all the time.

• 25:00John Green?

  Okay.

• 25:01Speaker 02

  And you create, you know, you, you sign up for, it's like signup.com or whatever. You know, there's a lot of ways to do it. You can do a Google form, um, but just have the courses. If it's a brunch, you, you pick like brunch things or you do appetizer, two appetizers, a salad, you know, maybe you make the main, you do the, you do a lasagna, you do a gluten free vegan lasagna and a meat lasagna.

• 25:34John Green?

  Yeah.

• 25:34Speaker 02

  And you do all of that and then everybody else can sign up for the rest. And I think you kind of, you have a sense of humor about it.

• 25:42John Green?

  Obviously, you've got to have a sense of humor about it.

• 25:44Speaker 02

  I have a very important.

• 25:46John Green?

  Note.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  Note.

• 25:47John Green?

  Okay.

• 25:48Speaker 02

  An end time.

• 25:50John Green?

  Oh, that's such a good, so once, once Sarah and I went to the White House.

• 25:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:55John Green?

  This is, this is an okay story to tell.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, but yeah, not, not during this administration.

• 26:00John Green?

  No, we, but we were once.

• 26:01Speaker 02

  We would not be invited.

• 26:02John Green?

  Yeah, no joke. We were once invited to the White House and we went and it was for a Christmas, uh, party of some kind. And, uh, we walked around the White House and we ate really good food and we had.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  Having a ball.

• 26:14John Green?

  Had a ball, having a glass of wine. And then a marine came up to me, um, and said, Mr. Green, I'm such a huge fan of Crash Course. And I said, thank you so much, man. That's amazing. He was like, it really helped me when I was in high school and, uh, really meant a lot to me. And I said, thank you so much. And then he said, the event has ended.

• 26:31Speaker 02

  Can I, can I show you to the coats? And it was quite, if I might add, like a dashing man.

• 26:38John Green?

  Oh yeah, he was a good looking fella.

• 26:39Speaker 02

  And I was so glad first to be told it's time to go.

• 26:43John Green?

  Totally.

• 26:44Speaker 02

  And then to be shown the door.

• 26:46John Green?

  Yeah.

• 26:47Speaker 02

  And to be let out onto a lovely crisp evening.

• 26:51John Green?

  Yeah.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  I was like, this is how all parties should end. There should be like a gong.

• 26:56John Green?

  Yeah. And then a handsome marine comes out and says, the event has ended.

• 27:00Speaker 02

  And actually ushers you out.

• 27:02John Green?

  Yeah, like literally is like, and, and you will not be going back to the White House.

• 27:07Speaker 02

  So like, I don't know if you need a gong or, or you hire someone or, but you know, I think just for safety reasons.

• 27:16John Green?

  That's a critical note that like the party ends at eight. And when I say the party ends at eight, I mean, we all leave together.

• 27:22Speaker 02

  Oh, right. Like maybe you plan to go for a late night movie.

• 27:27John Green?

  I gotta see, I gotta see Spider-Man.

• 27:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, this may be an old thing, an old person thing that we need things to end.

• 27:34John Green?

  No, no, no, I think that, I think that young people also, remember when we were young and we had that party at our apartment in New York and that couple stayed until like three o'clock in the morning?

• 27:43Speaker 02

  You need to have a plan.

• 27:45John Green?

  We didn't have a plan.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 27:47John Green?

  All right, we got another question from Keen who writes, Dear Sarah and John, I've never been to an author event before because I live in a remote corner of Maine, but imagine my delight when I learned that the Hollywood ending tour was coming to Maine, only five hours away from me. This is what I mean about like people drive a long way.

• 28:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 28:03John Green?

  You gotta give them a show.

• 28:05Speaker 02

  But, but Keen doesn't go to book events often, so.

• 28:09John Green?

  Yeah, I know, but Keen is showing this amount of faith in me.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 28:13John Green?

  It's scary.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  It's a, well.

• 28:14John Green?

  I've never been to one of these. Is it like a book club where I need to read it ahead of time? That probably doesn't make sense since we're getting the book at the event, right? What are you guys going to talk about? Should I read Heart the Lover ahead of time?

• 28:23Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:23John Green?

  It's on my list. You and Peachy Keen. You should read Heart the Lover.

• 28:27Speaker 02

  Ahead of time.

• 28:28John Green?

  And Writers and Lovers ahead of time.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 28:31John Green?

  That's my advice.

• 28:31Speaker 02

  But no, you do not have to read Hollywood Ending before.

• 28:35John Green?

  No, in fact, you should, you probably shouldn't because you should wait until you get your free copy at the show.

• 28:40Speaker 02

  Right. And then the book event, um, is to get you ready and excited to read it.

• 28:46John Green?

  The book event in truth is mostly to connect readers to each other and to have a kind of communal experience. I mean, one thing I think about before I go on stage every time is that this is the only time in history when this group of people will exist. And we should try to have a nice, meaningful time with this once in a lifetime group of people.

• 29:10Speaker 02

  And I think that kind of experience is all the more important now that so many people live so much of their lives online.

• 29:16John Green?

  Totally.

• 29:17Speaker 02

  So that's why you leave the house is to be with other people, not to watch another show.

• 29:22John Green?

  Yeah.

• 29:22Speaker 02

  No offense.

• 29:23John Green?

  No, no, I completely agree with you. Like it almost takes the pressure off me because it's really not about me. It's about like whatever we do to, you know, build a sense of togetherness in that room, which is partly reliant on me, but partly reliant on Keen and everyone else who's going to be there.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  So. Absolutely.

• 29:40John Green?

  Don't read the book in advance or don't feel like you have to. I mean, feel free to.

• 29:43Speaker 02

  And thank you for in advance for coming.

• 29:46John Green?

  Yeah, thank you for driving five hours and I hope that you stay the night in Portland and don't try to drive back that evening.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:52John Green?

  Those are my two notes.

• 29:53Speaker 02

  There's a lot of good restaurants there.

• 29:54John Green?

  Now Portland's a great town.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:56John Green?

  All right, Sarah, let's do one more question before we get to the all important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon.

• 30:00Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 30:00John Green?

  It's from Graham and Lila. Do you want to ask it?

• 30:03Speaker 02

  Uh, sure. Dear John and Sarah, why do we ask to go to the bathroom if we have human rights? Thanks Graham and Lila, age 11. This is a great question.

• 30:16John Green?

  It's deep.

• 30:16Speaker 02

  It's deep and it, when do human rights begin?

• 30:23John Green?

  Not in middle school, that's for sure.

• 30:25Speaker 02

  Well, Graham and Lila, you are at the peak of school rules.

• 30:31John Green?

  Yes.

• 30:32Speaker 02

  So I, we are experiencing this with our daughter who is in seventh grade.

• 30:37John Green?

  Yeah.

• 30:37Speaker 02

  And you know, of course there's a lot of rules when you're in elementary school, but then as you approach tween and teen years, like they try to, they try harder and harder to control you. Until high school, when there are still controls, but they start to loosen up a little bit, and then it's a gradual loosening.

• 30:59John Green?

  Mm hmm. Yeah. And by high school, you will have some human rights. Now, you probably won't have the right. I remember even in college, sort of raising my hand and being like, can I go to the bathroom? And my professors being like, yeah, yeah, you can. You don't have to ask. Just go.

• 31:15Speaker 02

  Well, here's the thing. You have to ask to go to the bathroom because other young people do bad things.

• 31:24John Green?

  They abused the privilege.

• 31:25Speaker 02

  They abused the privilege.

• 31:26John Green?

  Of going to the bathroom.

• 31:27Speaker 02

  Absolutely. So if everyone actually was just going to the bathroom and coming back immediately and not engaging in all sorts of

• 31:38John Green?

  Dubious behavior.

• 31:39Speaker 02

  Dubious behaviors, then it's it's your peers. It's your peers.

• 31:44John Green?

  They're the problem.

• 31:45Speaker 02

  They're the problem, and you suffer.

• 31:47John Green?

  I will say, Graham and Lila, that you've also raised an interesting question about human rights.

• 31:51Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 31:52John Green?

  Which is that human rights are a made up idea, right? Like, human rights did not do not like naturally exist. They don't exist in every social order. They don't exist at every moment of history. But it's a really useful made up idea, and it becomes real by virtue of us believing in it. And by virtue of us having a shared commitment to it. And when we lose that shared commitment, which we do often in many conflicts and many other parts of life, we lose human rights. And so we have to hold on to these ideas, even though they're made up ideas, very, very strongly. And I almost think that you should make that point to your teacher, that you

• 32:34John Green?

  should make that point to your teacher that like, these are my fundamental human rights as a as a person in this world. And I'm going to go to the bathroom when I want to go to the bathroom.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  We'll see how that goes over. I don't recommend that, Graham and Lila.

• 32:49John Green?

  I do. I do.

• 32:51Speaker 02

  I think it's an important, I don't know, I feel like there could be a discussion at student government about alternate

• 32:59John Green?

  There you go.

• 33:00Speaker 02

  About alternate ways

• 33:02John Green?

  Use the levers of government. Absolutely.

• 33:04Speaker 02

  Yes, to signal that you need to go to the bathroom. Like, maybe, maybe you put a particular card on your desk when you

• 33:14John Green?

  Maybe you just kind of salute the teacher when you're when you're going to the bathroom.

• 33:18Speaker 02

  And they tug their ear if it's okay. And then they like

• 33:21John Green?

  But it has to be okay. What are they gonna, what is the teacher gonna say? Like, no pee your pants?

• 33:26Speaker 02

  Well, but again, it's about those kids, like Alice has someone in her class who asks to go to the bathroom in the same class every day.

• 33:36John Green?

  Because they just don't like French?

• 33:37Speaker 02

  Well, I I'm not going to name names or identify classes. But the teacher is like, you should go before class. You cannot go every day.

• 33:49John Green?

  Right. Right.

• 33:50Speaker 02

  So there has to be, or maybe you're presenting certain material and you're about to finish up and work on something, and that would be a better time to go.

• 33:59John Green?

  Okay.

• 34:00Speaker 02

  I don't know. I just, I think you have to have a conversation with the with the with the levers of power. You have to use the levers of power to discuss things with those who control the system.

• 34:12John Green?

  I guess I don't even remember what it was like to be 11. These days, like, when I gotta go, I gotta go.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  I mean, I do think that a teacher knows, can see it in your eyes.

• 34:24Speaker 02

  If it's an emergency, if you're like picking at your nails and staring at the ceiling, and then all of a sudden, like, raise your hand and like, sort of looking off off to the distance, can you go to the bathroom? Versus like, holy god, I might, I, something bad is gonna happen if I don't leave right now.

• 34:45John Green?

  This is a crisis.

• 34:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:46John Green?

  Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other thing is that, I mean, on a serious note, if you feel like you're at risk of an accident or something, then you just have to talk to your teacher and say, like, this is, this is a real issue for me. I have a different body than you have, and I need to go when I need to go.

• 35:03Speaker 02

  Right.

• 35:04John Green?

  All right. I think we covered that one in detail. Graham and Lila, you're welcome.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  I, yeah, I do think it's an interesting discussion about human rights, though, that we could plumb for an entire episode if we wanted.

• 35:17John Green?

  Yeah, I do want to incorporate this into the news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon from Davis.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  But I don't have any news from Mars.

• 35:23John Green?

  Oh, we just make it up.

• 35:24Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 35:25John Green?

  You think Hank actually like knows all that stuff?

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 35:29John Green?

  No.

• 35:30Speaker 02

  I do.

• 35:31John Green?

  You think that like Mars is actually seismically active? Hank just makes stuff up every week.

• 35:37Speaker 02

  Okay, okay.

• 35:38John Green?

  I'll just do the news from AFC Wimbledon, and people will frankly be delighted to miss the news from Mars.

• 35:43Speaker 02

  I'll think of some news.

• 35:45John Green?

  Okay. Think of news from the Mars Corporation that makes Mars candy bars. Davis writes, hello, brothers, Green and Sarah. My fiance and I, both longtime nerd fighters, are set to get married this week, and we've planned a honeymoon trip to London, where we are hoping to watch America, and more importantly, Canada's favorite third tier English football team take on Blackpool on November 14.

• 36:05Speaker 02

  All right.

• 36:06John Green?

  Neither of us have ever visited London before, let alone attended a football match, so we're looking for tips and tricks to help us get ready. What do we wear?

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 36:13John Green?

  Are there any songs we need to learn beforehand? How can we get the most out of the experience? We'll also definitely be in search of a pre-match pint, so any bar or restaurant recommendations would be much appreciated. Curiosity in Canucks, Davis in Ottawa, Ontario. Now, Davis, as we've repeatedly established on this podcast, you are not allowed to brag about where you live. You're not allowed to brag about your sweet healthcare system.

• 36:36Speaker 02

  We, we deserve it.

• 36:38John Green?

  You're not allowed to brag about your passport that allows you to go to any country.

• 36:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:42John Green?

  Nope.

• 36:43Speaker 02

  You are allowed.

• 36:43John Green?

  You're not allowed to brag about

• 36:44Speaker 02

  I'll allow it.

• 36:45John Green?

  Okay.

• 36:45Speaker 02

  I'll allow it.

• 36:46John Green?

  All right. So Davis, there are a bunch of great pubs near nearby.

• 36:53Speaker 02

  Including at the stadium.

• 36:54John Green?

  Including at the stadium. I just usually go to the stadium itself.

• 36:58Speaker 02

  Yeah. Hang around.

• 37:01John Green?

  Hang around, get there, get there.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Explore.

• 37:03John Green?

  Get there nice and early. Get there like at least two hours before kickoff, so you can go to the

• 37:09Speaker 02

  Go to the shop.

• 37:10John Green?

  Go to the shop. So you don't actually have to like, wear a jersey to the game. You can just go to the shop and grab a jersey.

• 37:15Speaker 02

  And actually, most of the good pub hang happens after.

• 37:21John Green?

  Yeah.

• 37:22Speaker 02

  So, you know, yes, get ready. But I would have like a good meal beforehand, wear comfortable shoes.

• 37:30John Green?

  Yep.

• 37:30Speaker 02

  It it takes a good hour to get to the stadium from the center of London.

• 37:38John Green?

  Right.

• 37:38Speaker 02

  Where I imagine you're staying, so.

• 37:41John Green?

  So leave early.

• 37:41Speaker 02

  Leave early.

• 37:42John Green?

  Take the train, go for a walk.

• 37:45Speaker 02

  You, if you don't have a kit to wear, you can get one at the shop. So just like, incorporate that into your outfit. So like, plan to put that over whatever you're wearing. Be casual.

• 38:00John Green?

  Yeah.

• 38:00Speaker 02

  Be comfortable. Dress for the weather.

• 38:03John Green?

  Dress for the weather, for sure. It might rain, it probably will. But the good news is if it rains, there's going to be a beautiful rainbow over Plough Lane. That's the most, I mean, I don't like to be over the top or anything, but it is the single most beautiful vista, other than the faces of my children and my spouse, that I've ever seen in my life. It is more beautiful, is more, Plough Lane is a more physically beautiful place than all the physically beautiful places, Alaska, the Grand Canyon, whatever, whatever there is out there in Ottawa, Ontario, Davis. Like, it's, it's so much more, it's so beautiful. And the fact that the fans built it, the fact that we built it together, you're going

• 38:45John Green?

  to see across from where you sit, probably, you're going to see the flag of Canada planted by the Across the Pond Dons.

• 38:55John Green?

  That alongside the US flag, probably closer than they deserve to be in 2026.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  What songs do they need to learn?

• 39:04John Green?

  Johnny Jackson's Yellow and Blue Army.

• 39:06Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 39:06John Green?

  Johnny Jackson's Yellow and Blue Army. It's very tight. They really have to squeeze in that blue.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  Okay, is there somewhere you can direct them on online to learn the songs?

• 39:18John Green?

  If you Google AFC Wimbledon chants, you can learn. The big ones are, Show Me the Way to Plough Lane. They often sing Country Roads Take Me Home.

• 39:25Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 39:26John Green?

  Which is a great song. And, but they replaced West Virginia with Southwest London.

• 39:35Speaker 02

  Again, really smushing it in.

• 39:37John Green?

  Really gotta squeeze it in. Gotta squeeze it in.

• 39:39Speaker 02

  Okay. And other things, you probably have other things you want to do in London.

• 39:43John Green?

  Yeah.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  Go to Tate Modern.

• 39:46John Green?

  Oh, yeah. Go to the Tate Modern.

• 39:48Speaker 02

  Go to Trafalgar Square.

• 39:49John Green?

  Yeah.

• 39:50Speaker 02

  Go to the Tower of London and meet the Ravens.

• 39:53John Green?

  Yeah, good Ravens, high quality Ravens.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  Don't go on the weekend, go on a weekday.

• 39:57John Green?

  Yep.

• 39:59Speaker 02

  What else?

• 40:00John Green?

  I think the Tate

• 40:01Speaker 02

  So much good food.

• 40:02John Green?

  The Tate Modern is a great recommendation because it's free. You just walk in.

• 40:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:07John Green?

  And you are with one of the best art collections in the world.

• 40:13Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 40:13John Green?

  Of contemporary art.

• 40:14Speaker 02

  Eat at Deschume.

• 40:15John Green?

  Yeah. Have a have a meal at Deschume, by all means.

• 40:18Speaker 02

  There's so many good places to eat.

• 40:19John Green?

  Yeah. If you've got 30 bucks, go have a martini at the Connaught Hotel. It's a really, really good martini.

• 40:27Speaker 02

  Make a reservation.

• 40:28John Green?

  Make a reservation.

• 40:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:30John Green?

  My mom and I didn't make a reservation. That was a big issue.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:34John Green?

  We ended up, my poor mom ended up standing drinking her martini. But she said it was the best martini she'd ever had in her life.

• 40:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Download the Lime Bike apps.

• 40:42John Green?

  Oh, but wear a helmet, Davis.

• 40:44Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:44John Green?

  If you're gonna, if you're gonna take a Lime Bike, wear a helmet. There's so many people who ride these e-bikes without a helmet. It stresses me out.

• 40:50Speaker 02

  That's true.

• 40:51John Green?

  All right. I think we've covered it. Now, I gotta tell you a little bit of news from AFC Wimbledon.

• 40:56Speaker 02

  Congrats.

• 40:56John Green?

  Oh, yeah. Sorry. Congratulations on your wedding. And it's great to hear that two longtime nerd fighters are getting hitched. I gotta give you a little bit of news from AFC Wimbledon. AFC Wimbledon did play the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes. It was a thoroughly unenjoyable experience, Sarah. Like, I, I spent two hours shaking while staring at my television screen.

• 41:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 41:19John Green?

  And shaking with rage, with frustration, with, it just, it's, it's a game that shouldn't exist, because of course, the franchise currently plying its trade in Milton Keynes shouldn't exist. In the end, it was a nil-nil draw. How do you say it?

• 41:34Speaker 02

  Niu niu.

• 41:36John Green?

  That's how the Brits say it, apparently.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Niu niu. It's, and it's, I thought about it. It's N I W.

• 41:42John Green?

  N I W.

• 41:43Speaker 02

  Is how they say nil-nil.

• 41:44John Green?

  Niu niu.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  Niu niu draw.

• 41:48John Green?

  It was a nil-nil draw.

• 41:49Speaker 02

  It's like a sound. It's niu niu.

• 41:55Speaker 02

  You're welcome.

• 41:55John Green?

  I realize, because you so often ask me what the score is while I'm watching the game, and I'll say nil-nil, and then you'll say

• 42:01Speaker 02

  Niu niu.

• 42:02John Green?

  And I realize that the vast majority of the time you're watching soccer, the score is

• 42:07Speaker 02

  Niu niu.

• 42:11John Green?

  Like, very little happens in a soccer game, no. But yeah, so it was a nil-nil draw, and that was probably the right result. It was, it was intense, man. That game is so intense. And I'm just glad it's over and we move on. We're currently fifth in the league table, which is incredible and totally unsustainable.

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 42:31John Green?

  But hopefully, we can end the season in 19th.

• 42:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 42:35John Green?

  All right.

• 42:35Speaker 02

  It's a long season.

• 42:36John Green?

  It's a long season.

• 42:37Speaker 02

  We gotta hang in.

• 42:39John Green?

  Long season, and Sarah

• 42:40Speaker 02

  It's just begun.

• 42:41John Green?

  Sarah frequently points out to me.

• 42:43Speaker 02

  When everyone gets really excited about where things are going, I'm like, that's a bust.

• 42:50Speaker 02

  I've been here before.

• 42:52John Green?

  Well, Sarah, thank you for podding with me. Thanks to everybody for your questions. You can email us your questions at [email protected]. Today's podcast was edited by Linus Obenhouse. It was mixed by Joseph Tuna-Medish. Our marketing specialist is Brooke Chotwell. We're produced by Rosie Anals, Rojas, and Hannah West. Our executive producer is Seth Radley. Our editorial assistant is Deboki Chakravarti. And the music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gunarola. Finally, as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.