448: Doogie Howser, Boy Chaplin

If you had to choose one person to represent our planet in an interplanetary meeting, who would it be? How do you make an elopement still feel special? Why do I have to take math classes? What would you include in a museum to educate people alive in 2070 about what it was like to be alive in the 2020s? Why do you see weird shapes when you rub your eyes? Is an alligator a fish? …Hank and John Green have answers! If you're in need of dubious advice, email us at [email protected] Join us for monthly livestreams at patreon.com/dearhankandjohn Produced for Hank and John Green by Complexly See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Hank Green?

  You're listening to a Complexly podcast.

• 0:09Hank Green?

  Hello and welcome to Dear Hank and John.

• 0:12John Green?

  Or as I prefer to think of it, Dear John and Hank.

• 0:14Hank Green?

  It's a podcast where two brothers answer your questions, give you dubious advice and bring you all the week's news from both Mars and AFC Wimbledon. John?

• 0:19John Green?

  Yeah.

• 0:20Hank Green?

  The astronauts of the Artemis 2 mission have reported they found some crazy arachnids on the moon.

• 0:26John Green?

  Oh.

• 0:27Hank Green?

  They're calling them lunatics.

• 0:29John Green?

  Hmm. It's all right.

• 0:33Hank Green?

  Hmm. Yeah. I am happy to be here with you, John. I don't know when, I have no idea when this episode is coming out, as we are recording it. So we record because John's going to be out next week, et cetera. So we record some out of order. But like today is the day that the rocket is theoretically taking off.

• 0:54John Green?

  Yeah.

• 0:55Hank Green?

  At like 6:23 PM.

• 0:57John Green?

  Well, I wish you all the best with that. I hope that it

• 1:01Hank Green?

  Wish

• 1:02John Green?

  gets to the moon.

• 1:05Hank Green?

  You're experiencing this entirely through the lens of Hank Green?

• 1:09John Green?

  Yeah, pretty much, if I'm being honest. Like, I, my, my concerns are very worldly right now, Hank. I am thinking entirely about the fictional movie Andy Warhol Never Gets Old and the two young people at its center, Kai and Juniper.

• 1:25Hank Green?

  They're your worldly as well, rather than like the straight of Hormuz worldly.

• 1:30John Green?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I'm, I, the great thing about writing fiction, and one of the things that I miss the most about it is that I have no, like, I haven't come up for air in weeks.

• 1:43Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 1:44John Green?

  And it's obviously bad to disengage with the world. I shouldn't be disengaging with the world. But

• 1:52Hank Green?

  Yeah, you need to know that Matt Gaetz has told the world that there's a human alien breeding program being run by the US government.

• 1:59John Green?

  Has he really? Is that a joke?

• 2:01Hank Green?

  No, it's not a joke. It's real.

• 2:05John Green?

  Matt Gaetz, the former congressperson?

• 2:07Hank Green?

  Uh huh.

• 2:08John Green?

  As if they would tell 435 congresspeople that and it wouldn't get out?

• 2:12Hank Green?

  Yep. Yeah, he had, it was a guy who worked for the army, so you know it's for real.

• 2:17John Green?

  Okay, well, I'm glad I don't know about that. I'm really, so there are some things that I'm frankly like glad that I'm not informed about, like that, or like the new Super Mario Odyssey movie.

• 2:28Hank Green?

  Yeah, no, I think that, I think that I'd say that a solid 10% of people listening had any, Matt Gaetz's opinions no longer matter, which is fantastic.

• 2:37John Green?

  I have not formed an opinion on a number of things, including the alien human breeding program that's being run by the CIA. I've also not formed a strong opinion on the Super Mario Odyssey movie that is coming out. I have been really, really deep in writing this story and thinking about Kai and Juniper. And writing fiction is such a gift in that way because you just live in that world. And it's not always fun to live in that world, but it is always deeply, deeply engrossing. Like, the problems of a novel are so real to the novelist that they, everything else is subsumed by them.

• 3:18John Green?

  And it's just, it's not a wonderful feeling exactly because like it's also really difficult and really challenging and everything, but it is deeply engrossing. And I think what I want in the world ultimately is to be engrossed by something other than social media.

• 3:32Hank Green?

  And I think that is a thing that many people want a great deal. And, and maybe is, I mean, you see it a little bit in day that people are actually spending a little less time on social media than, than previously, though, as I have said, I think on this podcast before, from a very high high.

• 3:46John Green?

  Yeah.

• 3:46Hank Green?

  The decrease, the decrease is from a very high high. So it is still very high. But the, um, but, but I think that, I like, I'm, I'm sensing that from all directions. I'm sensing it very much internally, just like wanting to have a little bit more control.

• 4:00John Green?

  Yeah.

• 4:00Hank Green?

  Like not yielding my, like, my consciousness over to, you know, the, the

• 4:09John Green?

  Algorithms, letting them decide what you think about.

• 4:12Hank Green?

  Yeah, who, who have one single goal, which is just to monetize me more effectively.

• 4:16John Green?

  Yeah. Unlike this podcast, which isn't trying to monetize your attention at all.

• 4:21Hank Green?

  There's not a lot of algorithms involved in podcasts, which is kinda nice.

• 4:24John Green?

  That's true. That's a good point.

• 4:25Hank Green?

  So it's obviously not entirely free of the, um, not entirely free of the, of the system or the, the salience economy, but like a little bit more, a little bit more free of it.

• 4:36John Green?

  I will say, I think this is something that books do very well and books can be engrossing, but you have to put in the time with a book, which is really hard to do right now because the engrossment you can get from social media is there is seconds away. Whereas truly being deeply engrossed in a book is probably 45 minutes away. And the difference between 12, 15 seconds and 45 minutes is a pretty significant difference.

• 5:04Hank Green?

  Well, I don't know, like maybe 10 minutes. I feel like I can get in, get in there in 10 minutes.

• 5:10John Green?

  I mean, the first 10 minutes of a book has to be so good for the first 10 minutes to be engrossing.

• 5:16Hank Green?

  Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I thought, I thought you meant like each individual session.

• 5:20John Green?

  No, no, I'm, I'm talking about starting cold. Like you're

• 5:23Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 5:23John Green?

  opening the cover of Hollywood Ending for the first time. Realistically, I'm doing my best to make it a banger from page one, but realistically, you're, you're 15 minutes at least away from being engrossed.

• 5:38Hank Green?

  I feel like you might know the data on one, what percent of books are being read on paper versus listened to. Do you know those numbers?

• 5:46John Green?

  I don't. I don't.

• 5:48Hank Green?

  I feel like it's getting close, close to, if not having surpassed 50, 50.

• 5:52John Green?

  No, it's nowhere close to parity, but it is, it is growing. I mean, audiobooks are growing, which is awesome because I think reading via audio is awesome, but like, um, it's nowhere close to parity.

• 6:03Hank Green?

  Hmm. It certainly is, uh, a majority of the books I read are listened.

• 6:09John Green?

  Well, I'm excited for you to read on audio Hollywood Ending on September 22nd. I don't know who's narrating it yet. It won't be me because, well, for one thing, it's a novel in two voices. And so I think it'd be weird if I was both of those voices. And for another thing, I don't really like it when people conflate my life with the lives of my characters. And that will only get worse if I read the audiobooks.

• 6:37Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't make any sense to, for fiction. I don't think it makes sense. For nonfiction, it makes perfect sense.

• 6:44John Green?

  It does.

• 6:44Hank Green?

  Which I'm somewhat looking forward to doing for my book, which also is coming along.

• 6:50John Green?

  Yeah, but it's not available for preorder, so there's no reason to talk about it now.

• 6:53Hank Green?

  Why are we talking about it? Boo, boo, boo.

• 6:56Hank Green?

  Hollywood ending.

• 6:56John Green?

  Everything that matters, Hank, is what can be immediately monetized.

• 7:00Hank Green?

  Can you tell me the story of the comma? Why is there a comma? You keep bringing up the fact that there's a comma in Hollywood ending. And it's not how I would write the phrase Hollywood ending. It changes the meaning of the title.

• 7:11John Green?

  Yeah.

• 7:11Hank Green?

  For me.

• 7:12John Green?

  Yeah. It's supposed to change the meaning of the title, I think, is the answer to why there's a comma between Hollywood and ending.

• 7:20Hank Green?

  And that, you're gonna leave that up for me to interpret. It's probably the thing to do.

• 7:24John Green?

  Yeah, wait to read the book.

• 7:26Hank Green?

  Okay. Are there?

• 7:29John Green?

  Are there what?

• 7:30Hank Green?

  I know that this would be crazy.

• 7:31John Green?

  Yeah.

• 7:32Hank Green?

  And I know this would be a huge spoiler if you told me.

• 7:34John Green?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Hank Green?

  So maybe you just don't tell me. But do either of the main characters end up being human alien hybrids?

• 7:42John Green?

  That's what it's about. You caught me. It's the big reveal.

• 7:48Hank Green?

  I've told you, I've told you my Succession story, right?

• 7:52John Green?

  No.

• 7:54Hank Green?

  Which is that I was once told that I should watch this new TV show. And I would really, really like it. And it's really cerebral and has this like crazy sci fi direction that it goes in.

• 8:05John Green?

  Yeah.

• 8:06Hank Green?

  And, and so I was like, okay, I gotta watch that show. It sounds really cool. And so I watched like, like the first 10 episodes of Succession, waiting for the sci fi twist, before realizing that my friend told me to watch Severance.

• 8:24Hank Green?

  And I was like, this twitch is gonna be nuts.

• 8:27John Green?

  Wow. Nine episodes in, when this person pulls off their human masks and reveals their wizard face. This is gonna be bonkers.

• 8:34Hank Green?

  Which you can totally see happening in that show.

• 8:36John Green?

  Yeah. Yeah. To be fair, in Hollywood ending, one of the main characters is like a huge movie star who's taken this movie, Andy Warhol Never Gets Old, playing Andy Warhol to try to prove that he still has acting chops, sort of, and, you know, put himself in awards conversations and whatnot. And I could, I could see him being a lizard person. He's not in the novel. But you know, like, you know how those big stars like are so different from being regular people? Like, that, that it's easy to understand why conspiracy theorists say like, well, that's not a human, that's a wizard person.

• 9:13Hank Green?

  They're so outside of, of, of like, what, I don't know, they're just like, the amount of, of, of value being placed on them by society, you know?

• 9:23John Green?

  Yeah.

• 9:24Hank Green?

  It separates them from reality.

• 9:26John Green?

  It's, it does separate them from reality. It does not make them into lizard people for the record. Like, I, I know some of those people and they're, they're human beings who's, uh, grieves, grieve on universal bones and whatever. But like, yeah, there is, uh, there is a weirdness to that. That's a Faulkner line, that, that the griefs grieve on universal bones. I love that line. Anyway, let's answer some questions from our listeners.

• 9:48Hank Green?

  Okay. This question comes from Laura, who asks, Dear John and Hank, I'm wondering if you had to choose one person to represent our planet in an interplanetary meeting with other creatures from different planets, who would you choose? Not Dora the Explorer. Laura.

• 10:03John Green?

  I think it's not Dora the Explora. Laura.

• 10:06Hank Green?

  That's what I said.

• 10:07John Green?

  You kind of put, you kind of put a, an er.

• 10:10Hank Green?

  Explora. Laura.

• 10:12John Green?

  There you go. There you go.

• 10:16John Green?

  I mean, obviously, I'd choose one of the lizard people because they could communicate with multiple

• 10:22John Green?

  multiple folks. So probably Dolly Parton, you know, I imagine Dolly, probably Dolly.

• 10:28Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Dolly's a great choice, John. I feel like I feel like I maybe I've asked you this question before and you've said Dolly before.

• 10:36John Green?

  No, but I Dolly is one of my background answers for who should we have?

• 10:40Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 10:41John Green?

  Who can unite us, who can still bring us together?

• 10:43Hank Green?

  Yeah, a real uniter. That's that is somebody that everybody like, just like the the most people can agree on Abraham Lincoln, you know, that kind of person?

• 10:52John Green?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 10:52Hank Green?

  Yeah. But I want somebody who's really quick on their feet and Dolly's super quick on her feet.

• 10:57John Green?

  She is. She's sharp as a tack, as they say.

• 11:00Hank Green?

  Sam Campbell.

• 11:02John Green?

  I don't know who that is.

• 11:03Hank Green?

  He's an Australian comedian.

• 11:05John Green?

  Okay.

• 11:05Hank Green?

  Very quick on his feet.

• 11:06John Green?

  Okay.

• 11:07Hank Green?

  Uh, I want somebody who can think, uh, just, just really be ready for any, any direction it might go, which is just like an improv comedian.

• 11:17John Green?

  Right. A Brennan Lee Mulligan type of character?

• 11:20Hank Green?

  Yeah. Oh, my God, Brennan would be, uh, I think totally up for it.

• 11:24John Green?

  No, Brennan would definitely do it. He would definitely volunteer. So would you? That's one thing about the Green Brothers is that Hank would volunteer and John would not, and Hank would do a pretty good job and John would not. I mean, I'm reasonably quick on my feet, but I can't handle the pressure. I just remember speaking at the United Nations, which was as close to a gathering of, um, all sentient beings as I've ever encountered and being real nervous.

• 11:50Hank Green?

  So here's what, here's an interesting question. If you were an alien, how would you do this? There's a great John Sculsey book where the alien hires a Hollywood agent.

• 12:00John Green?

  Hmm.

• 12:01Hank Green?

  And it's like, I need you to, I need you to like, let's do this. Let's let's figure out how to, how to do the first contact thing. Um, uh, but, but how, like, cause I feel like, you know, one person, it's a big planet. You wouldn't want to do that. You'd want, you'd want to be like, okay, I've, I've, I've gerrymandered the entire world into, you know, 100 equal sized districts. You all have to elect a person to come talk with us.

• 12:27John Green?

  Hmm. Hmm. And then they will, then that Senate will elect.

• 12:33Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 12:33John Green?

  An ultimate representative.

• 12:35Hank Green?

  No, no, no. They'd have 100 different conversations.

• 12:38John Green?

  Oh, well, that's interesting.

• 12:40Hank Green?

  Yeah. And then they'd be like, we, we, we, we have reached our conclusion. We believe you to be worthy or not.

• 12:49John Green?

  God, I would like, first off, this will never happen. If I learned anything from Project Hail Mary, it's that the situation that would lead to us encountering intelligent life would be ridiculously, absurdly complex and/or it's been happening for millennia and we don't know about it.

• 13:11Hank Green?

  We are, we are it. Yeah.

• 13:13John Green?

  Yeah, right. Like, it's hard enough for us to talk to each other and we have all kinds of shared experiences and shared biology, and yet we really struggle to communicate with each other. I think that, I think this would be a challenging circumstance in real life.

• 13:30Hank Green?

  Yeah, it's, well, well, certainly it would be challenging. I don't think that we'll have to deal with it. It seems, um, now that we've, we've got pretty powerful technology and tools, it seems as if the kind of thing we are is not common.

• 13:44John Green?

  Yeah. Yeah. Or it is common and it's just a really big universe.

• 13:51Hank Green?

  Yeah, I mean, common. It's not common enough to be close, close by. And also, there is no close by.

• 13:57John Green?

  I, I actually think that's the bigger issue. The lack of a close by is a big issue. There is no close by. I mean, things are so far apart.

• 14:07Hank Green?

  Hmm. Not as far apart as you think.

• 14:09John Green?

  Yes, they are. They are literal light years, Hank. It takes light years to get from one star to another.

• 14:17Hank Green?

  Let me hit you with, uh, a solution to this problem.

• 14:22John Green?

  Yeah.

• 14:22Hank Green?

  Which is intelligence that's not biological. So, it, it, it, given, given that possibility, those things can just turn themselves off and turn them back on, you know, in a thousand years. In a thousand years, ultimately, not a long time in the history of the universe. So really like not actually like totally within current ability for us to travel to Alpha Centauri within thousands of years. Like, we could do that now.

• 14:50John Green?

  Yeah, to Alpha Centauri.

• 14:52Hank Green?

  Not like, not like with a body, not with a body.

• 14:54John Green?

  I understand. And then like, what? And then another 50,000 years to get to the next star?

• 15:01Hank Green?

  Yeah, I mean, ultimately, I don't know, like, I can't hit you with the math, but it's not millions of years.

• 15:08John Green?

  No, but we've only been here for 300,000 years, like, as a species.

• 15:13Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. You, you have to. So this, this is the thing. When I say uncommon or rare, I don't necessarily mean that they, we don't happen very often. But I, I mean that like the current level of technological sophistication may be more of a shell. So like a very brief period before whatever we are doesn't keep going. Or not. You know, the great filter could be behind us and we, we just happen to make it through. And, and most things don't. So maybe, maybe we'll, maybe we'll be the thing that just takes over the whole galaxy and it's just really uncommon.

• 15:48John Green?

  I hope not. I don't trust us. One, I don't trust us as far as I can throw us.

• 15:53Hank Green?

  Yeah. Well, here, John, we talk often. We talk sometimes about how our rock is better than nothing.

• 15:59John Green?

  Yep.

• 15:59Hank Green?

  Is a solar system with life better, or a planetary system with life, better than a planetary system without life?

• 16:06John Green?

  Yes.

• 16:07Hank Green?

  So if there's a bunch of planetary systems that don't have life.

• 16:09John Green?

  Yep.

• 16:10Hank Green?

  And we bring it, would that be a positive?

• 16:13John Green?

  Yeah.

• 16:14Hank Green?

  Okay. Dolly Parton, everybody.

• 16:18John Green?

  But I think we should be very careful about what sort of life we bring. I think we should bring Dolly Parton, golden retrievers and kittens that don't become cats.

• 16:31Hank Green?

  Kittens that don't become cats?

• 16:32John Green?

  You heard me.

• 16:33Hank Green?

  Oh, how much? Shut up and take my money.

• 16:41John Green?

  All right, let's answer another question. This one's from Emma who writes, Dear John and Hank, my partner and I recently got engaged, which is very exciting. We're planning on having a wedding in 2026. Sorry, there's no wedding website for you to critique yet, but my health insurance is turning out to be terrible with $100 copays every time I see a specialist. Welcome to America, Emma. And my undiagnosed autoimmune arthritis condition means that my meds cost $160 a month. Long story short, we're going to elope so I can be on my partner's health insurance and have the celebration later. Money is tight right now as I haven't been able to work much. How can we make our elopement still feel special? Ope, I'm gonna elope, Emma.

• 17:20John Green?

  I mean, Emma, I'll just tell you, I think that eloping in general is a great strategy and an underrated one. I once went to an Elvis wedding in Las Vegas and Elvis explained to me, this Elvis impersonator explained to me that actually a huge percentage of his weddings, people come back and like visit like 20 years later or something and they're still married because he's like, some of them, you know, they come in and you're like, I don't feel great about this one. But the vast majority of them, he actually feels pretty good about because they're people who know each other well and have been together a long time. They just decided to elope and have an Elvis wedding. And, and I think that's great. Some of the best marriages I know started in a courthouse.

• 18:05Hank Green?

  The thing about what we're doing here with weddings is we are creating rituals and like the nice thing about the existing ritual of the wedding is that there's a bunch of, a bunch of things to choose from that you want to include or not include and, but they feel like they have this weight. And so you're gonna have to like maybe slam a little bit of your own weight down and say, this matters because it matters to me. And that might be vows that you write to each other, which is of course like the original weight. It might be like letters that you write to each other. Like make it an event. None of this stuff costs money. Like it's almost like worse if any of it costs money. Make it an event. You know, you create something for each other, you, you put aside some time.

• 18:49Hank Green?

  Where you're making a thing to to bestow value upon this situation. And for me, like, that's that's like heading off in a word type direction because

• 19:01John Green?

  Because you're a word guy.

• 19:02Hank Green?

  But there's, you know, you you choose the directions that that work for you and that matter a lot to you and the things that you share and you find the value in in those things, whether like you're pulling ideas from from the media that you love together, or you're pulling ideas from the experiences that you've had together, etc. But like, give it some weight, make it matter. And then the other thing that you do later, when you when you have, if you have a ceremony for friends and family, that will matter as well in a big way and in a different way.

• 19:29John Green?

  Yeah, I agree with all of that. I think, did I ever tell you about the time I baptized a kid?

• 19:35Hank Green?

  No, wild.

• 19:36John Green?

  Yeah, so when I was a chaplain, this kid was at the hospital and was about to get a liver transplant. And his mom was like, he was probably seven, his mom was was like, he's never been baptized. And so she asked the nurse, like, can you call the chaplain? Because I'd like to get my kid baptized just before this operation. And they called me and because I was the chaplain on call, not because I was the good chaplain. And I went and all you need to baptize someone is water. And then you say, like, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and they're baptized. That's it. That's everything else is, you know, ritual.

• 20:18John Green?

  I mean, that's also a ritual, obviously, but like, everything, everything else about it is created to make it feel like an occasion.

• 20:26Hank Green?

  To give it the weight.

• 20:27John Green?

  And I never realized this until I'm in the room with this kid. And I'm like, oh.

• 20:35John Green?

  Because like, they they don't come from a particular faith background where there's like a particular set of rituals involved in baptism. I know that like, all that's required for a baptism is splash some water on a kid and say, I baptize you in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, or whatever. But I realized like, that's not sufficient for this person's need in this moment. Like, they want a thing.

• 20:58Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 20:59John Green?

  And so I'm like, I kind of talk it over with them. And I'm like, what kind of thing should we do? Should we do a thing from the Book of Common Prayer, which is my faith traditions, you know, organization of rituals? Should we do a thing where we? Like do it together somehow like you wanna splash some of the water like.

• 21:23Hank Green?

  You could get evolved.

• 21:25John Green?

  Yeah, and I and I realized looking back that probably what they wanted was for me to go in super confident with a baptism strategy, but I never baptized anyone before.

• 21:37John Green?

  I didn't feel confident. I was 22 years old. You know, I was Doogie Howser Boy Chaplin.

• 21:43Hank Green?

  This is so cool. I wanna I wanna hear. I wanna hear all the details of this story. You should make a video about this. This is great. I don't believe I don't know about this.

• 21:51John Green?

  Eventually, we go with the Book of Common Prayer, and I bring out the Book of Common Prayer, and I like read all the stuff.

• 21:58Hank Green?

  You like go to the gloss, like the index, and you're like, be bapped.

• 22:03John Green?

  Almost literally.

• 22:06John Green?

  And I go through all the stuff and, you know, I I say like, peace be with you and and and they say like, and peace be with you and all that jazz, even though I'm not an ordained priest, but none of that matters because you don't have to be ordained to baptize someone. Any baptized Christian can baptize another kid or person or adult or whatever.

• 22:29John Green?

  Meanwhile, this like seven year old kid who's fully cognizant, you know.

• 22:33Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah. This isn't a baby.

• 22:35John Green?

  Exactly. Like, an active participant in the baptism in many ways is there. And we go through the whole thing and then I I we say the words prayer and I baptize them and then this kid is baptized. But then after I realized that like after the baptism, usually you go back to being in church and like then you have communion and whatever and like you go, but like there's nothing to do after. I baptized them and I'm like, all right.

• 23:03Hank Green?

  You guys want a soda?

• 23:08John Green?

  Congratulations.

• 23:09Hank Green?

  Should I turn on the TV Alps on?

• 23:13John Green?

  You want to watch The Lion King together? Like, what's a good vibe? Should we play Playstation?

• 23:18Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 23:19John Green?

  Mario Kart?

• 23:20Hank Green?

  Yeah. John, this is a great story. I have two questions.

• 23:24John Green?

  Yeah.

• 23:25Hank Green?

  The second one's gonna depend on the first one. Was the kid, did the kid end up being okay?

• 23:29John Green?

  Uh, I mean, last I heard, the kid was okay. They got through the, um,

• 23:32Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 23:33John Green?

  The transplant well.

• 23:35Hank Green?

  Yeah. Second, was the kid's name Duncan?

• 23:38John Green?

  No. Duncan Duncan.

• 23:42John Green?

  I appreciate that you were only gonna ask that question if the kid turned out to be okay.

• 23:45Hank Green?

  Oh, God. Which reminds me, John.

• 23:48John Green?

  Yeah. Oh, God.

• 23:49Hank Green?

  We've gotten two questions and we're already at the sponsors?

• 23:52John Green?

  This podcast is brought to you by Duncan. The only baptized donuts.

• 23:58Hank Green?

  That's true.

• 23:59John Green?

  It's a really good point. Uh, today's podcast is also, of course, brought to you by A Rock. It's better than nothing, which I guess means that we should terraform the universe?

• 24:10Hank Green?

  This podcast is also brought to you by kittens that don't become cats. Kittens that don't become cats. It's coming eventually, and I, I don't know how I feel about it.

• 24:19John Green?

  And of course, today's podcast is brought to you by Dolly Parton. Dolly Parton, our chosen speak for humanity person. I guess speak for America person, because if we're doing a speak for humanity person, I think we might want to reach outside of the English speaking world a little bit.

• 24:34Hank Green?

  Humanity, yeah.

• 24:35John Green?

  Yeah, it's a lot of pressure for Dolly. Uh, but.

• 24:38Hank Green?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 24:39John Green?

  I would have, I would have her speak for, for America. And don't, don't email me and tell me all the reasons Dolly Parton is terrible and ruin my day.

• 24:47Hank Green?

  Literally, literally just don't.

• 24:49John Green?

  I don't need, I don't, I don't need to know. I need something.

• 24:52Hank Green?

  I need something. This episode of Dear Hank and John is brought to you by Quince. I do very much like opening up my closet and finding an item that I know is gonna be both comfortable and I'm just gonna look good in it. It's gonna go well with my khakis or my jeans or my third kind of pant? That I, I have like a, or like a pair of orange pants, just things that make getting dressed easier. And that's what Quince does best. Quince focuses on high-quality wardrobe staples made with premium materials like 100% Mongolian cashmere, organic cotton, and merino wool. And the styles are timeless, and they're versatile, and they're designed to become dependable pieces that you reach for day after day. This morning, I put on this jacket that I'm currently wearing with just a white t-shirt,

• 25:35Hank Green?

  and I knew immediately, this is gonna work. I went downstairs, and Catherine was like, "Look at that nice jacket. Where'd that come from?" You know where it came from? It came from Quince. Everything at Quince is priced 50 to 80% less than similar brands because they work directly with ethical factories and cut out the middleman. So you're paying for the quality, not the brand markup. Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app-exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365-day returns, now available in Canada and the UK, too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know that it was Dear Hank and John. It's a good way to support the show. I feel like I should say it's Q-U-I-N-C-E. I guess it's pretty easy to spell Quince. Quince.com. I feel tempted to make up a tagline for them, but that's not what they want me

• 26:20Hank Green?

  to do. I shouldn't do that.

• 26:27John Green?

  Dear Hank and John is brought to you by NoCD. So you may know that I've had obsessive-compulsive disorder since I was a kid, but I was only diagnosed as an adult. I lived with intrusive thoughts and the compulsive behaviors I used to manage those intrusive thoughts for many years without treatment. OCD is not just anxiety. If you have those "what-if" intrusive thoughts, and you cannot close the loop on them, and you find yourself in thought spirals, you might have OCD. And it's not the organizing stereotype you've heard. It's a persistent, unwanted series of intrusive thoughts that feel totally out of character, along with mental or physical behaviors that you feel driven to, to get relief, even when that relief never actually comes.

• 27:10John Green?

  The good news is that OCD is highly treatable with the right kind of specialized therapy. It needs ERP, Exposure and Response Prevention Therapy, which has proven to be the most effective treatment, and it has transformed my life. NoCD is the world's leading provider of OCD treatment, covered by For over 138 million Americans, there are licensed therapists who specialize in ERP therapy, who meet you in live face-to-face virtual sessions with support between sessions. So you're never facing OCD alone. So if you're struggling with OCD or unrelenting intrusive thoughts, NoCD can help. Book a free 15-minute call to get started at nocd.com. That's nocd.com.

• 27:53Hank Green?

  John, we've got a question from Elise, who asks, Dear Hank and John, I'm a first-year microbiology student, and to my great dismay, I had to take a couple of calculus courses.

• 28:02John Green?

  I mean, to my great dismay, this person is named Elsie.

• 28:05Hank Green?

  Did I say Elise?

• 28:06John Green?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Hank Green?

  Well, that just goes to show you. Sorry, Elsie. There is a reason that I went into the biological sciences. One, because I think bacteria and viruses are cool. And two, because I don't want to do math. Got terrible news for you, Elsie. Some math is very useful in biology, but I haven't come across a single part of Calc 1 or 2 that are helpful in anything to do with my field. Can you tell me, why do they make me pay $1,200 for two courses that I will never use the information that I learned in Mathematical Mysteries, Elsie?

• 28:39John Green?

  This drives me crazy.

• 28:41Hank Green?

  Yeah. So I can tell you the logic behind it, but I don't think the logic is good.

• 28:46John Green?

  Okay. Well, I appreciate that you don't think the logic is good. Before you tell me the logic behind it, let me just say that if I'd gone to a college that required Calc 1 and 2 in order to graduate from college, I would not have graduated from college.

• 29:02Hank Green?

  Yeah, but you weren't getting a microbiology degree.

• 29:05John Green?

  That's true. But I just want to state for the record that this college math course that so many colleges force you to take in order to get a bachelor's degree is, really denies educational opportunities to a lot of people like me.

• 29:22Hank Green?

  I agree with you.

• 29:23John Green?

  Okay.

• 29:24Hank Green?

  And that's actually a separate, you know, it's a separate course from Calc 1 and 2, of course. But like, a lot of this, like, college math stuff, I don't know, man. It feels very 1952. Like, I'm not sure what we're training people for. Because it's now. And if you like, get algebra conceptually, you don't need to remember like the inverse square law. I'm sorry.

• 29:50John Green?

  And indeed, I don't.

• 29:52Hank Green?

  I actually don't even know if that's definitely algebra. So I just came up with a math term that's bumping around in there. Now, with specifically about microbiology, the thing that they're doing here is twofold. First, there are conceptual things in calculus that you should understand, that you actually don't need all of the like, different ways of solving the derivations that you're going to spend the vast majority of your time on. But there's concepts in calculus that you do want to have. You do want to know about like first and second order effects. You do want to know about like the area under the curve. You want to know stuff. You want to know what the tools of calculus are for, at the very least. Like, that is actually important.

• 30:38John Green?

  Yeah, but I know that. I was gonna say, I don't, I don't actually need to, I know, I, I understand that. I can understand that intellectually, and I can grasp that without doing the math.

• 30:52Hank Green?

  Yes. The math helps to reinforce it.

• 30:54John Green?

  Of course. And, and if I, if I'm going to be in a career where I, where the, the area under the curve is a huge part of what I do, I'm going to need to know the math.

• 31:05Hank Green?

  And then the other thing, Elsie, this is, this is the actual reason why you took Calc 1 and 2, because there are directions that you can go with a microbiology degree, where you will end up taking classes where you will need calculus. And they want to keep that, those options open for all microbiology students, even if not all microbiology students are going to go in that direction. I don't know if this is worth doing, but if you're gonna be going into like pharmaceuticals, if you're gonna like do pharmacokinetics, if you're gonna do physical chemistry, like a lot of this stuff is really important. Like, and you're, well, it's like, it's, it's like, people are gonna go in those directions, and those people are not going to be able to go into those courses without taking Calc 1 and 2 first. And so those, they're gonna have a prereq that you

• 31:50Hank Green?

  have taken calculus before you take those courses. And so they're just basically saying, hey, you know, a lot, like several of the future courses in your degree path that you might take are gonna have prereqs of Calc 1 and 2. So we're just gonna make everybody take it so that they have those options of potentially taking those courses when they're seniors or juniors. And that's why, but from what I can tell, you're unlikely to be going in those directions with your microbiology degree. So I ultimately agree with you, but that's, I think that that's the, the theory behind it.

• 32:21John Green?

  But isn't there also an element, Hank, of

• 32:25Hank Green?

  Filter?

• 32:26John Green?

  Snobbery and filter about it. Like, I remember when I was a chaplain, I, I said to my, like, discernment supervisor at one point, like, why the, I mean, from a patient perspective, from a chaplain perspective, why the do you have people do this before they are ordained or very far down the path of ordination?

• 32:51Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 32:51John Green?

  And he was like, oh, it's hazing.

• 32:53Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 32:55John Green?

  And he was very effective hazing. Like, I quit, it worked, you know, like, I figured it out cheaply and, and quickly that I didn't want to head down that path. But there are a lot of people who would be good doctors who don't do well in organic chemistry. And there are a lot of people who would be good microbiologists who don't understand Calc2 very well. And I think that that's a disservice to people who would do well in the profession. Maybe I'm wrong. I might be wrong. I've been wrong before, but that's my inclination.

• 33:25Hank Green?

  Yeah, there are artificial constraints being placed on the number of people who can get degrees and doctors and specifically, like, there's literally, like, the federal government decides how many doctors, how many new doctors we get each year and the

• 33:42John Green?

  Right.

• 33:43Hank Green?

  So, sorry to be a little controversial here, but the, uh, the doctor groups lobby to keep that number as small as possible so that there will be a doctor shortage.

• 33:52John Green?

  Wow. All right. We're getting hot here. Hot takes. I mean, that is true.

• 33:56Hank Green?

  Nobody wants to, nobody wants to hear it, but this is a, and I'm not saying every doctor agrees with this, of course not, but the, the, the groups that represent doctors do not want, and, and they say that the reason is because they want the, only the best doctors to come out of the process. But we artificially limit the number of doctors that we get and, and it's a big problem.

• 34:16John Green?

  All right, Hank, let's answer another question. This one from Taylor who writes, "Dear John and Hank, I'm working on some history homework where we have to create a museum room about the 2020s. My intended audience consists of people who will be alive in 2070." Oh, so like Hank and me. "What objects would you include to educate visitors about the 2020s? Would a jar of sourdough starter count as historically authentic? What about a Pizza John shirt? Looking forward to your expert curation advice. Loose suits need a..." Taylor. Loose suits are back, actually, Taylor, as it happens.

• 34:44Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, tight suits need a tailor now.

• 34:46John Green?

  Yeah. A sourdough starter is a great shout because that was huge in 2020. Especially if you can keep sourdough starter alive from 2020 to 2070, that would be a hell of a museum thing.

• 35:00Hank Green?

  You know, the most 2020 object that exists is those like cloth face masks that said, "Do good." Which is extra funny because it turns out like the cloth ones didn't do much at all.

• 35:15John Green?

  They weren't as good as we wanted them to be.

• 35:16Hank Green?

  Just massive holes in them, it turns out, on a microscopic scale. And it was just like, we like the, oh, no, I don't want to get too into the weeds, but that that now feels very, uh, very 2020.

• 35:31John Green?

  Well, it's the 2020s overall, though. That's why I think a Pizza John shirt would be very good because, you know, I mean, Pizza John is one of the defining images of the 2020s and the 2010s.

• 35:43Hank Green?

  Well, it does feel to me, I mean, this was my thought, is that the Pizza John feels a little bit like, like it's a 2010s nostalgia play.

• 35:52John Green?

  Yeah, more.

• 35:54Hank Green?

  Or even before that.

• 35:55John Green?

  I would say that Pizza John, like all great images, like I heart New York, like the smiley face is timeless.

• 36:04Hank Green?

  Uh huh. Oh, John, John, I got a good one.

• 36:07John Green?

  Okay.

• 36:09Hank Green?

  A ring light.

• 36:10John Green?

  Oh, a ring light is very good.

• 36:11Hank Green?

  A ring light is gonna be the most 2020 object. We're already leaving it behind, but oh, man, we will look back on ring lights with a weird feeling.

• 36:21John Green?

  Yep, that's true.

• 36:23Hank Green?

  Um, anything from Shein?

• 36:25John Green?

  Mm hmm. Sure. Mass-produced plastic of any kind really feels very 2020s to me.

• 36:33Hank Green?

  It's the 2020s now, right?

• 36:35John Green?

  Oh, yeah, it's still the 2020s.

• 36:37Hank Green?

  So you gotta put ChatGPT in there.

• 36:39John Green?

  No, you don't.

• 36:40Hank Green?

  There is a piece of me that feels like maybe the way that like the chat bot

• 36:47John Green?

  Mm hmm.

• 36:48Hank Green?

  AI thing will be looked back on as a bit of a fad.

• 36:52John Green?

  Wow.

• 36:53Hank Green?

  I mean, you're like, you're bringing in a lot.

• 36:56John Green?

  You're bringing in a lot of hot takes today, Hank Green, and it makes me uncomfortable.

• 37:04Hank Green?

  I, I, I think that I, I don't, I don't think that they won't be tools, but like

• 37:09John Green?

  You think talking to an artificial intelligence will be a fad? I just want to be clear about this because in 2040, when we're still making this podcast, I just want to have you on record that you thought that it would be a fad.

• 37:23Hank Green?

  There will just, there will just be other ways to use the tools that won't be so like chat-based. Like, I don't know.

• 37:34John Green?

  You don't think that we're gonna say in the future, like, hey, ChatGPT, schedule a haircut?

• 37:40Hank Green?

  I, that's a good point. Probably will do that.

• 37:44John Green?

  I'm worried that we're gonna do more of it, not less.

• 37:49Hank Green?

  I don't know. It feels, it feels like we very much all went, like, we went all in on the first use case and there's gotta be like other, other ways for it to just be sort of like a more subtle background piece of life rather than like your, I think people will be doing it.

• 38:05John Green?

  You don't think it's gonna be your therapist in the future?

• 38:09Hank Green?

  Oh, my God. Here's what I think is possible, but if, if it is that you talk to it like a person and it lives in your head.

• 38:17John Green?

  Okay, well, that has me panicked. Uh, let's move on.

• 38:21Hank Green?

  Yeah, for, for, for people who didn't get to see the way John's face just looked, he hadn't had that thought yet and he didn't like it.

• 38:30John Green?

  I didn't like it. I didn't like it. I didn't like, I don't like it at all. I want to move on from the whole question and answer this question from Star. Who writes, Dear John and Hank, I'm currently attempting to fall asleep while listening to your hit sleep podcast for teens and the elderly. As I started rubbing my eyes.

• 38:45Hank Green?

  You gotta not be writing stuff down, Star. Put your phone down.

• 38:49John Green?

  I started to see kaleidoscopic, like, shapes. Why does this happen? Also, am I physically seeing it, or is it all in my head? Does John see weird shapes when he rubs his eyes too? Twinkle, twinkle, little star. Thank you for only caring about my perspective, not Hank's on this one.

• 39:03Hank Green?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I don't have, I don't have eyes.

• 39:06John Green?

  Because Hank's obviously gonna do the science stuff, but I'm gonna do this, and I'm gonna, I see the kaleidoscope effect in my, and I think it is physical.

• 39:16Hank Green?

  Yeah, it's, well, well, here's the thing, John.

• 39:18John Green?

  Everything is physical and everything is psychological because every, because the brain is made out of meat.

• 39:23Hank Green?

  Well, hit me with the, the specific language of stars.

• 39:30John Green?

  What?

• 39:31Hank Green?

  Uh, hit me with a specific language of what Star said here. Star said.

• 39:36John Green?

  Star said, "Am I physically seeing it, or is it all in my head?" It's both. It's both.

• 39:42Hank Green?

  Yeah, so, so like, this is a really big question in consciousness. Does red exist?

• 39:51John Green?

  Okay.

• 39:52Hank Green?

  So obviously, if you're me, you would say red is an illusion created by the brain that is, is like, a, a, like, consciousness's representation of a specific wavelength of light. And then, the philosopher would be like, "But Hank, there's something physical going on there." And I'd be like, "Fine." And then, uh, and then I'd, I'd stomp out of the room and be like, "I guess." And that's, so that's very much what's going on here, is that it's not, it's certainly not something that you are physically creating, like, wavelengths that your head is, that your brain is interpreting, but you are physically having an impact on your optic nerve, and that is changing the signal that's getting interpreted by your

• 40:37Hank Green?

  brain, and it's being interpreted as these, like, weird, uh, shapes and stuff. And that's a thing that we all get to experience whenever we want to, to prove to ourselves that consciousness, uh, is, is just sort of like a vivid hallucination that is yet tied to the reality that we inhabit.

• 41:02John Green?

  Why do we see stars when we push on our eyes, though?

• 41:08Hank Green?

  Yeah. Okay. I mean, okay. I'll walk you through. I think I said that. The eyes send electrical signals to the brain in response to stimuli, usually your rods and cones being hit by photons. When you rub your eyes, you are generating a physical stimulus and that also causes electrical signals to be sent to your brain. They are what we see as those shapes and there actually is a name for them called phosphines.

• 41:36Hank Green?

  And, uh, and we could, when we do other things that make our retinas behave weird, you can also see shapes. Like if you stand up really fast, sometimes sneezing does this. You can like see like flashes of non-existent things that your brain is interpreting as stuff you're seeing.

• 41:54John Green?

  Right. Okay. Thank you, Hank. That was helpful. Now I have to ask you another question. Is an alligator a fish?

• 42:01Hank Green?

  No. Yes. I mean, it depends on what you mean by fish.

• 42:05John Green?

  Dear John and Hank, writes Anna. I've been listening to old episodes of the podcast recently while running and in episode 410, y'all said that fish are not well-defined. Seeing as it's Lent right now, and Hank, a little bit of, little bit of background information for you. A lot of Catholics don't eat meat on Fridays during Lent. It's not a huge sacrifice, but.

• 42:28Hank Green?

  But enough that they're, they get, they start looking at the gators funny.

• 42:31John Green?

  But they do eat fish.

• 42:37John Green?

  Okay. So this is, this is helpful background.

• 42:40Hank Green?

  But when we say meat, fish are actually plants.

• 42:45John Green?

  That's why there's like Friday fish fries in a lot of Catholic communities. Okay.

• 42:49Hank Green?

  Okay.

• 42:50John Green?

  I saw online the other day, the Archbishop of Louisiana, or possibly New Orleans, declared that alligator was acceptable to eat during Lent as a fish, which leads me to believe that at least in one sense, fish are well-defined as the ones you can still eat during Lent, pumpkins and penguins, Anna McKay.

• 43:07Hank Green?

  This is famously true of beaver.

• 43:10John Green?

  What?

• 43:10Hank Green?

  There was a, there was a French, like Catholic French trappers in early America ate, it didn't have like a lot of food options.

• 43:19John Green?

  Yeah.

• 43:20Hank Green?

  And so the Pope declared beavers' tails were pretty scaly. They spent a lot of time in water. You could eat those boys during Lent.

• 43:29John Green?

  Oh, is that true?

• 43:31John Green?

  Maybe it's that Catholics don't eat meat on any Friday and don't eat meat at all during Lent. I can't remember because I'm Episcopalian and

• 43:40Hank Green?

  That's different.

• 43:41John Green?

  And we, we, we broke off with them so that a king in England could get a divorce. So.

• 43:49John Green?

  Yeah.

• 43:50Hank Green?

  Things are different now.

• 43:51John Green?

  Things are different now. I mean, here, here in the Anglican Convention, we don't, uh, we don't, we don't, we don't, we don't, to my knowledge, anyway, give up meat during Lent. Although I've, I've, I've been trying to eat less meat just because of the horrors.

• 44:07Hank Green?

  Yeah, I think that it makes sense to me that it would be, it would be during, during all of Lent.

• 44:14Hank Green?

  And, and as I have looked this up, um, it's, it's, some people are saying they abstain from meat and some are saying they abstain from land animal meat.

• 44:23John Green?

  Land animal. There you go.

• 44:24Hank Green?

  And alligators aren't really land animals.

• 44:27John Green?

  Sometimes they are, but not often.

• 44:29Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 44:30John Green?

  So I guess if you

• 44:30Hank Green?

  Mostly not.

• 44:31John Green?

  I guess if the alligator was killed in the water, then it's safe. If the alligator was killed on land, then I've got some questions because that feels like a land animal.

• 44:40Hank Green?

  You gotta get down in there, in its environment and take it on and it's on its own terms.

• 44:45John Green?

  Exactly.

• 44:47Hank Green?

  The crocodile Dundee knife in one hand.

• 44:49John Green?

  Yep.

• 44:49Hank Green?

  And just a bottle of Adderall in the other.

• 44:52John Green?

  I believe that is the only way to legally hunt alligators in Louisiana. All right, Hank, before we get to the all important news from Mars and AFC Wimbledon, one quick correction from Jeanette who writes, Dear John and Hank, in your recent episode 445, you were discussing the stimulants available to peasants during the Middle Ages. And I wanted to add that medieval peasants also had access to another drug in that they used to eat grain and/or bread that grew a type of mold that produced a hallucinogenic effect.

• 45:22Hank Green?

  So do they do some purpose?

• 45:24John Green?

  European, I don't know. That's a great question. European peasants did perhaps have access to drugs in the form of moldy bread.

• 45:34Hank Green?

  Uh huh.

• 45:35John Green?

  In fact, the art, the artist Hieronymus Bosch has paintings said to have been made under the influence of this mold. If you're interested in seeing the effects for yourself, Pumpkins and Penguins, Jeanette.

• 45:46Hank Green?

  Well, in that case, it does sound like he was doing it on purpose. I know a lot of ergot poisoning was not intentional.

• 45:51John Green?

  What's ergot? H- hallucinogenic mold?

• 45:54Hank Green?

  Yes, that grows in grains, I believe.

• 45:59John Green?

  Yeah, I mean, I'm sure a lot of it was unintentional. I'm sure a lot of it was also unpleasant. Like, it's one thing if you're gonna make a point of going on a trip. It's another thing if you're just trying to have breakfast.

• 46:08Hank Green?

  Yeah. Uh huh. Um, I'm on the Wikipedia page right now. A very cool fact about ergotism is that it is

• 46:16John Green?

  ergotism.

• 46:17Hank Green?

  Sometimes known as Saint Anthony's Fire.

• 46:20John Green?

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:21Hank Green?

  Which is great.

• 46:22John Green?

  Yeah.

• 46:23Hank Green?

  That's an amazing name for like, something weird's going on with Steve.

• 46:30Hank Green?

  What's up?

• 46:31John Green?

  He's got that old Saint Anthony's Fire on him.

• 46:35Hank Green?

  You know, Saint Anthony, old Tony.

• 46:37John Green?

  Well, it's good to know there's a patron saint of going on a hallucinogenic trip by accident because you ate moldy bread.

• 46:45Hank Green?

  Yeah, or maybe sometimes a little bit on purpose. If you're Harano Spash.

• 46:50John Green?

  Speaking, Hank, of hallucinogenic joy, I have some news from AFC Wimbledon that is not news from AFC Wimbledon for you today. Former AFC Wimbledon player and hero Ali Al Hamadi scored a goal in a playoff game to decide who was gonna go to the World Cup, Iraq or Bolivia. He scored a goal and he is going to the World Cup. Iraq is going to the World Cup for the first time in 40 years, thanks to, in part, to former AFC Wimbledon player who I've hung out with, Ali Al Hamadi. Incredible, incredible. Like, someone I've met is going to the World

• 47:35John Green?

  Cup, Hank. Someone, I think this is the first time an AFC Wimbledon player, a former AFC Wimbledon player, has ever made it to the World Cup. Like, at least since, you know, since the catastrophe of Milton Keynes and everything. So, this is unbelievable. Like, it's so cool. Not only, like, he's not going to the World Cup and he's gonna sit on the bench. He's going to the World Cup. He's gonna play. He's gonna be a striker in the real World Cup. Someone I kind of a little bit know. Someone who might, if you asked them, might remember me? 50/50?

• 48:10John Green?

  Do you know how cool that is, Hank?

• 48:12Hank Green?

  Maybe he's got to score a goal.

• 48:14John Green?

  Oh, my God, if he scored a goal in the World Cup. He would be, he's already a hero in his nation.

• 48:19Hank Green?

  Yeah.

• 48:20John Green?

  I mean, imagine, imagine being one of the 11 people who brings that level of joy to 45 million people.

• 48:30Hank Green?

  All right.

• 48:30John Green?

  It's unimaginable to me. God, I love the World Cup so much. By the way, if you are interested in football in the World Cup, you should really listen to the podcast I have with my great friend of 35 years, Daniel Aragon. Uh, it's called The Away End, and it's, we're available wherever you get your podcasts, and it's just going to get you incredibly hyped for the World Cup while also talking a lot about poetry.

• 48:52Hank Green?

  Heck, yeah, brother.

• 48:53John Green?

  What's the news from Mars? I guess it's that, I guess it's this Artemis stuff.

• 48:56Hank Green?

  I mean, I, I feel like I can't talk about Artemis because, of course, I have no idea when this podcast is going to come out.

• 49:01John Green?

  Yeah.

• 49:01Hank Green?

  So.

• 49:02John Green?

  Sorry, sorry about my travels.

• 49:04Hank Green?

  But I do want to talk a little bit more about this, uh, nuclear powered mission to Mars, uh, because I'd only talked about the, the ship that theoretically in 2028, which running an entirely new propulsion system, using a reactor that does not exist yet, would go to Mars, but they are also delivering a payload, and I love the idea of the payload, which is basically to bring a bunch, instead of rovers, bring just a bunch of those, uh, helicopter things.

• 49:32John Green?

  Oh.

• 49:32Hank Green?

  To Mars. And just be like, we're gonna do this.

• 49:35John Green?

  We're just gonna fly around, we're gonna fly around Mars.

• 49:38Hank Green?

  We figured that out. It works. And, uh, bring, bring a bunch of them, have them go all, all over the place and learn a bunch of stuff. It's nice. You don't have to worry about your wheels getting all messed up. There has been so much skepticism about this. I, uh, experienced a lot of it from basically everyone I know in the space community, uh, that this could happen by 2028. It feels very much like that deadline is imposed, uh, rather than by reality, by, uh, when President Trump would like to have it happen so that it happens, uh, during his term and he can get credit for it.

• 50:07John Green?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:08Hank Green?

  Um, which is not really how you plan missions to Mars. But a December 2028 launch would be extremely aggressive, but I have, there are a couple of people, not inside of NASA, but a couple of people who have been inside of NASA who have said, like, it's tight, but it's thing if the budget's there. Like, you could do it if there was enough money to spend on it, which I still remain skeptical of. But I do want to allow for the fact that there is, that there is a level of feasibility here, as long as there's budget to go with it.

• 50:43John Green?

  Well, I would be excited to have a bunch of helicopters on Mars. As long as there's no humans there, I'm happy.

• 50:49Hank Green?

  Things are looking good for you.

• 50:51John Green?

  Yeah. I mean, they've never been, on that front, they've never been better. On other fronts, mixed.

• 50:57Hank Green?

  Other fronts mixed.

• 51:00Hank Green?

  Everybody, thank you for listening to our podcast. If you want to send us questions, we have an email inbox. It's [email protected]. And we appreciate you for sending them over to us. We enjoy them very much. Oh, it's the 15th of April. Okay, that's what it says. It says it at the top.

• 51:16John Green?

  Tax Day.

• 51:18Hank Green?

  This podcast was edited by Bridget Kennison. It was mixed by Andrew Smith. Our marketing specialist is Brooke Shotwell. It's produced by Rosiana Halsroh, Hassan Hannah West. Our executive producer is Seth Radley. Our editorial assistant is Deboki Chakravarti. The music you're hearing now and at the beginning of the podcast is by the great Gonna Rolla. And as they say in our hometown, don't forget to be awesome.