#419 - Mossad Assassin TELLS ALL: Epstein, Iran War & Netanyahu's Next Move | Juval Aviv

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Juval Aviv is a former Mossad agent and assassin. Juval was the leader of a team that hunted down the Black September terrorists who murdered 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics. His story became the basis for the book 'Vengeance' and the Steven Spielberg film 'Munich'. Juval was also hired by Ghislaine Maxwell to investigate the death of her father Robert Maxwell. Juval and Danny discuss Jeffrey Epstein, Trump, Netanyahu, the Iran War & much more. Juval's new memoir "Exposed" is coming soon. SPONSORS https://amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJP22 for 22% off your first order. https://hexclad.com/dannyjones - Get 10% off your forever cookware. https://gld.com - Use code DANNYJONES for 40% off. https://livemomentous.com - Use code DANNY for up to 35% off your entire first order. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Ex-Mossad assassin 01:42 - Avenging the Munich Olympic Massacre 09:16 - "They paid us nothing" 17:39 - FBI tried to send Juval back to Israel 24:08 - Mossad threatened Juval's daughter 31:17 - Fighting the business of fraud 38:07 - Working for the Shadow Government 46:59 - Shadow government can't control elections 48:40 - Working for Bush Sr. & Dick Cheney 53:24 - Biggest threat to U. S. today 01:01:13 - Evidence Iran has no nukes 01:05:53 - How Netanyahu controls Trump 01:12:38 - Netanyahu had Epstein in his pocket 01:13:35 - Investigating Robert Maxwell's death for Ghislaine 01:25:22 - Evidence Epstein hid money for Robert Maxwell 01:33:53 - How Epstein & Robert Maxwell met 01:35:35 - Why Robert Maxwell was killed 01:44:13 - Meeting Jeffrey Epstein 01:46:05 - Where Epstein got his money 01:49:15 - How Epstein learned to hide money 01:59:02 - Origins of Epstein's blackmail operation 02:03:15 - Upcoming Epstein victim bombshell 02:07:56 - "I can assure you Epstein is dead" 02:17:15 - Why Ghislaine Maxwell hasn't been killed yet 02:18:17 - Evidence of Russiagate election collusion 02:28:05 - Origin of Trump's relationship with Putin 02:31:11 - How Russia swayed the election 02:33:54 - Russia-Ukraine war 02:40:55 - The 2015 Iran Nuclear Deal 02:44:03 - The Pan Am 103 bombing 02:52:06 - CIA let the bomb on Pan Am 103 03:00:55 - Release of Juval's Pan Am 103 report 03:08:53 - Arrested by FBI over Pan Am 103 fallout 03:12:01 - Juval's trial against the U. S. government 03:24:03 - Scariest moment of Juval's life 03:32:44 - Juval's upcoming memoir Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 1:07Danny Jones?

  Thanks for coming, Juval.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it was a pleasure to meet you last night and discuss some of the things we're going to be discussing today. I never thought in a million years that I'd be interviewing a Mossad assassin on my podcast.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Well, yes, I can understand your feelings.

• 1:28Danny Jones?

  You're the first one that I'm at least aware of that has been here.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, yes.

• 1:34Danny Jones?

  I guess first of all.

• 1:36Speaker 02

  I'll let you just say past assassin.

• 1:39Danny Jones?

  Past assassin, not current assassin.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  No, not current Mossad assassin.

• 1:44Danny Jones?

  And not in current, not officially current association with Mossad.

• 1:50Speaker 02

  That I leave open.

• 1:51Danny Jones?

  Okay, we'll leave that for people to guess. People can speculate in the comments. What was your first operation with the Mossad?

• 2:00Speaker 02

  I was actually a graduate. I graduated from Israeli.

• 2:06Danny Jones?

  Listen a little closer.

• 2:07Speaker 02

  From an Israeli military elite unit. It's an Israeli SEAL unit, like the American SEALs. And when I graduated the unit and finished my duty, I became Golda Meir's bodyguard. She was the Prime Minister of Israel and I became her personal bodyguard.

• 2:29Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  So for two, three years, I actually acted as her. Traveled with her all over the world. And that was not a Mossad assignment. Then the Munich Olympic massacre happened, where 11 Israeli athletes were killed by terrorists during the Olympics in Munich. Golda Meir decided to avenge the Munich massacre in such a way that it will send a message to terrorists. You do what you do, but we will find you individually for as long as it takes and will bring you to justice. You will not be able to travel freely

• 3:13Speaker 02

  and live freely for the rest of your life. To do so, those terrorists who did the massacre, some of them lived and masterminded it. Those who masterminded it lived in Europe. They were not hiding in Arab countries because they were afraid that Israel will retaliate easily operating in Arab countries. But they were, will be afraid to operate in Europe because Europe will not allow that. So to do so, to find them and bring them to justice, Golda made a decision to put together a team of five commando agents who would go undercover in Europe, will search for those terrorists

• 3:58Speaker 02

  and as they find them, bring them to justice.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  I was assigned to lead the team of five.

• 4:08Speaker 02

  I was 22 years old. I traveled to Europe before, but I never had an assignment such, such an assignment. So off we left and right when I left,

• 4:26Speaker 02

  my daughter was born in Israel and I couldn't even travel back to Israel to see her until much, much later. We were not allowed to come back and visit Israel. We lived in safe houses all over Europe. And for three and a half years, we were chasing those terrorists. We did find them one by one and brought them to justice. They were all met their maker, makers in different countries, in different cities. And that became a real mega operation.

• 5:06Speaker 02

  During that mission, I lost three of my own team members to accidents. I claim it's accidents and it, but the Mossad thought that maybe they were also assassinated. And when it was over, it was only one person, one other member and myself who were left. We decided to quit and just leave. It was the end of it because Mossad suddenly had more lists of people that they wanted to get rid of. So this is not a career that I wanted to, to keep going. I had a family, young family now and I wanted to just leave.

• 5:46Danny Jones?

  So that was your first and last official?

• 5:48Speaker 02

  That was the first and last. That I moved to the United States, brought my wife and my daughter to the US and decided I'm going to make America my home. At one point, I wrote a book about that mission called Vengeance. The book became a bestseller worldwide. It was translated to 32 languages. And at one point, Steven Spielberg bought the rights to the book and my life story and the movie Munich is based on my life story. There was another movie made on the same subject by a Canadian producer called The Sword of Gideon.

• 6:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 6:33Speaker 02

  It became an HBO mini-series and then it became a full-time movie all over the world. So that was the one big Mossad operation that put me on the scene and created my beginning in the United States.

• 6:49Danny Jones?

  Why do you think she chose you to lead that operation?

• 6:53Speaker 02

  I think because she had, first of all, she knew very well my parents. She, I became like a son to her. And she felt comfortable that I will do the right thing. And when she made the decision, she took me aside. I'll never forget that. Put her arm on my shoulder and said, listen carefully. No innocent bystander should be hurt in that mission. If you have to stop the mission for a while because you are worried about innocent bystanders, you do that.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  In a way, she said, don't call us, we'll call you. And congratulations and good luck to you. If you are, I'll never forget that. If you are successful, we will read it in the papers. If you are not, who cares? And that was the goodbye. The last time I spoke to her before I went to the mission.

• 7:59Danny Jones?

  And then you say there was a specific protocol that had to be taken where you had to like stop the people and look them in the eye and ask them?

• 8:05Speaker 02

  Well, that was then I met the team members that I did never met before. I was the youngest, youngest team member. The rest of them were much older and, and had experience CIA, sorry, Mossad experience. And my first worry was, why would they listen to me? I'm the young guy. And I have to give credit to Mossad. They chose and put a team together that never had an argument, never had an issue internally. I always ask everyone for their opinion. What should we do? How should we do it? Recommended advice and so on.

• 8:50Speaker 02

  But when I made the final decision, they all agreed to it and acted upon it. So that was one thing that I still think going back. Because now that I put teams together to do some other things, I know how hard it is to put a team together that don't have internal conflict among themselves, that don't have their own agendas. God forbid they can't be bought. That could also happen and then you're in trouble because they can go against you. So that was all done mysteriously by Mossad and it all worked out. So I have to give them credit for that.

• 9:34Speaker 02

  How it ended is a different story. I decided not to go back to Israel because I knew if I go back to Israel at the time, they will force me in a way to continue doing what I was doing.

• 9:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, you're talking about you're, you're fast forwarding to when you moved to New York now.

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then I decided that New York would be the place I want to be.

• 9:56Danny Jones?

  And how, so I want to linger on that. It was Wrath of God. Is that the name of the operation?

• 10:03Speaker 02

  Well, it was, yeah, yeah.

• 10:06Danny Jones?

  Where you guys hunted down. And how many of those guys did you hunt down?

• 10:08Speaker 02

  11.

• 10:09Danny Jones?

  11 of them and it took how long?

• 10:11Speaker 02

  Three and a half years.

• 10:12Danny Jones?

  Three and a half years.

• 10:15Speaker 02

  Three and a half years, yes.

• 10:18Danny Jones?

  What was it like? Were you guys all traveling together and camping out in safe houses together?

• 10:23Speaker 02

  We all stayed at a safe house together. We chose different safe houses, which at one point I can elaborate about because it's a story by itself. Because we didn't rent it or design it. We had nothing to do with Mossad. This was our operation. Before we left, Mossad assigned to us, gave us $20 million in a Swiss bank account for that operation, that we can draw money as we need to pay for information, resources, buying weapons, buying explosive, whatever we needed.

• 11:01Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  And I was the one who had the signature at the bank to go and draw money. And I have to tell you that we were so honest and so, I cannot, I'm looking for a word, that we never used the operation money for our own purposes. If we had to buy shoes or we have to do something else or good, we paid with our own allowance money and not that $20 million that we assigned for that. Looking back today, I should have probably take a few million dollars, put aside for rainy days

• 11:46Speaker 02

  because of how it ended with Mossad, who, we'll get into it, didn't pay me any end for the operation.

• 11:55Danny Jones?

  Not anything.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  Anything. So.

• 12:01Danny Jones?

  And didn't you, at what point did you meet Yoni, Yanni?

• 12:07Speaker 02

  Oh, that was before, before I left, I mean.

• 12:10Danny Jones?

  Much before.

• 12:10Speaker 02

  Much before, and when I attended, joined the Antebay raid to release the terrorists in Antebay, the Israeli hostages in Antebay, which he led.

• 12:22Danny Jones?

  So you weren't, that was not, you were no association with Mossad when you were doing that?

• 12:27Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, but.

• 12:28Danny Jones?

  So we're talking about Bibi Netanyahu's older, younger brother?

• 12:31Speaker 02

  Younger brother.

• 12:32Danny Jones?

  Younger brother, yeah.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  That was a different operation. I was already in New York, I operated in New York, and the government called me and said, "We want you back to join this operation."

• 12:46Danny Jones?

  I see, I see.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  That's how I joined that. So now I'm in New York and I have to do something with my life. I'm illegally in New York, I have no, no green card or no visas. I came in on some of the passports that I had from the operations.

• 13:08Danny Jones?

  So you gotta, when you did the operation, when you prepare, when you went to go prepare to do that, they have to give you a bunch of passports in case you guys have to get out of Dodge?

• 13:15Speaker 02

  They didn't have to give me, they gave us one passport to leave the country and then I had to go and purchase.

• 13:22Danny Jones?

  You had to go, oh, you, so they left, they just gave you the money and you had to do all the work?

• 13:26Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. It started with getting papers, proper papers.

• 13:33Danny Jones?

  Oh, was that you?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Sorry.

• 13:35Danny Jones?

  That's okay. Tell the Mossad we said hello.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:40Speaker 02

  So.

• 13:44Speaker 02

  What have happened is, the idea was they needed deniability. That's why the whole operation was done the way it was done.

• 13:52Danny Jones?

  Ah, I see.

• 13:53Speaker 02

  Israel wanted to make sure that if something goes wrong and we get crazy and do something crazy, they can say, "No, we don't know those people. They are crazy Israelis who took upon themselves to do it on their own. They are vigilantes, we don't know them." And the only thing that they would provide is legal defense through a third party. That's the agreement.

• 14:18Danny Jones?

  Right, which is why the money had to be put into a Swiss bank account.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  That's a Swiss bank account, that's why they had no control of it.

• 14:25Danny Jones?

  That's why they couldn't pay you.

• 14:27Speaker 02

  That's why they couldn't pay me. No, they could, they have.

• 14:30Danny Jones?

  They could have found a creative way to pay you.

• 14:32Speaker 02

  Oh, of course.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  No, but they have done to each one of us, they created another account and put like a salary into it.

• 14:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Amount of money that will grow through the duration of the operation. And when it's over, we will have a nice sum of money to retire, to do whatever we wanted to do.

• 14:56Danny Jones?

  Now.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  I didn't know that those accounts were also controlled by them. I thought they only opened them. So any, every month, every two months, I used to visit the account and see how my money is growing and I was enjoying it and said, in the end, I had about $350,000 in the account in three and a half years. So I said, "That would be a nice chunk of money that I could then use to retire in New York."

• 15:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 15:25Speaker 02

  Little I know, when I went to retire and they didn't like it, I went to pick up the money at the bank. Guy told me in the bank, "I'm sorry to tell you, but you have $3 in the account right now." So apparently they had the right to put the money and also take the money out. So they thought if they take the money out, I'll be penniless, I have no papers, I have nowhere to go, I'll be forced to come back to Israel.

• 15:54Speaker 02

  And that really gave me the strength to continue staying in America and said, "No, they're not going to control my life. I will now do what I have to do to survive and hopefully get an American citizenship and stay in America." That was the plan.

• 16:13Danny Jones?

  So when you made the decision to leave the Mossad and come to America, did you officially go to anybody and declare that?

• 16:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course. I traveled to Israel, I said, "I'm leaving." They said, "Well, take a week or two vacation, go wherever you want and when you come back, we'll discuss it." And I never came back to discuss it. I told them, "I'm out, it's over." And they knew that I'm in New York because I moved my wife and my daughter to New York and they knew where we are, I mean, it's not a.

• 16:42Danny Jones?

  And you're, you're like 25 by this point?

• 16:44Speaker 02

  I'm sorry?

• 16:45Danny Jones?

  You're like 25, 26 years old?

• 16:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. So now I'm in New York and I need a job and I couldn't get a job because I couldn't go for an interview. Anytime I went to a job interview and they said, "What have you been doing for the last 10 years?" I couldn't tell them. I said, "I'm sorry, I can't tell you." And they probably thought that I was in jail or I was in a looney house or something like that. So they always said, "Nice to see you" and that's the end of the interview. So I started driving a cab in New York. I found a friend in Brooklyn who owned two cabs and gave me one of the cabs and I became a cab driver in New York just to survive. And that was for a few months.

• 17:27Danny Jones?

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• 18:39Speaker 02

  Then at one point, Mossad realized I'm not coming back.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  So one night, I get a knock at the door and two FBI agents came to see me and said, "Mr. Aviv, we know who you are, we know why you are here and Mossad have asked us to put you on a plane and send you back to Israel."

• 19:00Danny Jones?

  The FBI said this?

• 19:01Speaker 02

  Yes. So I said to them, "Well, I need to pack, I mean, I need a time." So they said, "Yeah, we'll come back in 24 hours and pack your stuff and be ready to go to the airport, you and your wife and your daughter." I immediately, through friends that I developed at the time, got a very good immigration lawyer, Sandra Levitt, who was the immigration lawyer at the time. She's retired now. And she said to me, "You are now under my, you are a client of mine now. As long as I am applying for papers for you, for visa and for green card and so on, they cannot touch you.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  If they come back to pick you up, tell them to call me." You are now.

• 19:51Danny Jones?

  Avocados.

• 19:53Speaker 02

  Jesus.

• 19:54Danny Jones?

  God, that's never happened before.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Tree branch.

• 19:57Danny Jones?

  We have an avocado tree over there.

• 19:58Speaker 02

  Ah.

• 19:59Danny Jones?

  And it's dropping avocados. Oh, maybe I should pick him up when I leave.

• 20:06Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 20:08Danny Jones?

  Okay. All right, yeah, where were we?

• 20:10Speaker 02

  So they came back and I told them, call the lawyer and give them the business card. And they called Sandra and they left me alone.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  Then they came back.

• 20:22Speaker 02

  About two, three weeks later and said, Mr. Aviv, we checked you out. We did our own investigation on you. And we would like to hire you as a consultant to us. Would you work for us?

• 20:37Danny Jones?

  The FBI?

• 20:38Speaker 02

  Yes. So I said, God bless America, of course.

• 20:43Speaker 02

  I said to him, under one condition, I don't do any work on your behalf against Israel. And I can assure you that I'm not doing any work on behalf of Israel against you, against America. If that is agreeable, I am agreeable to do work, depending on what type of work that you have in mind. They said, well, it's anti-terrorism. You are, we need you as a consultant on anti-terrorism. And for 14 years, I was a full-time consultant to the FBI.

• 21:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:17Speaker 02

  As a consultant on anti-terrorism and some other operations against the KGB, against Russia, and so on. That at the time, because they saw that I have the connections in Europe, that I still have capabilities. So they enjoyed that.

• 21:35Speaker 02

  That is, that relationship stopped at the time when I took on an investigation on behalf of Pan Am Airline.

• 21:46Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 21:47Speaker 02

  And we, we don't go into it right now, but we'll talk about it later.

• 21:50Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  That relationship stopped right then because I wrote a report as a finding of my investigation on the Pan Am Lacabi report. That CIA didn't like, the FBI didn't like, and they canceled our relationship and said, you are.

• 22:10Danny Jones?

  Persona non grata.

• 22:11Speaker 02

  Persona non grata, you can't work for us anymore. You're probably anti-American because of what you said in the report. So that ended that time.

• 22:25Speaker 02

  During the time that 14 years, they didn't have work for me every day because terrorism at the time wasn't really big for the United States.

• 22:34Danny Jones?

  What, what years are we talking?

• 22:35Speaker 02

  It's late, late eighties, early nineties.

• 22:40Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 22:41Speaker 02

  So.

• 22:44Danny Jones?

  Real quick.

• 22:45Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:46Danny Jones?

  Can you tell the story of what happened in 75 when you received the picture on your front doorstep?

• 22:51Speaker 02

  Okay, so going back.

• 22:53Danny Jones?

  And how far after this, how far after you coming to New York from Israel, did this happen?

• 22:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's when, once the Israel realized, going back now to the time that the FBI came in. And then I said, I'm not going, I have a lawyer now, and I applied for papers. And I also told the FBI, one of the reasons I am going, agreed to work with you. I want you to influence the immigration and give me a visa and legitimately be, and I want a green card. Bless you.

• 23:33Speaker 02

  And they said, absolutely. And in those days, they could have done it. Today, they couldn't do, give you a green card or arrange for it and so on. If the life depended on it, they couldn't, with the way the environment is now. So in very short time, indeed, I got a green card. I became an American, legitimate citizen in this country. Nobody can touch me. Israel realized they lost the ball. They cannot bring me back now. They can't, can't force me to come back.

• 24:05Speaker 02

  They moved to plan B. One night, and you know, there's a few months now that I'm in, in the, in New York. It's still, the operation in Europe is fresh. I'm paranoid about everything because I saw how easy it was, relatively easy for us to find those terrorists and kill them.

• 24:29Danny Jones?

  And you, you were worried about retaliation.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I was worried about retaliation because I said, you know, members of the families of those deceased would maybe try to avenge it also. And yeah, in New York, you have to find somebody in New York, it's not as easy, but still, they can do that. So I was really, security and awareness was, I still has the same issue and I still maintain the same.

• 24:58Danny Jones?

  Same paranoia.

• 24:59Speaker 02

  Paranoia.

• 25:00Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, it will never end until, and the book came out, the movie came out, of course. So one night I hear a knock at the door. And I was living on, in a brownstone on a lower floor, which is against all, all security guidelines. But I couldn't afford anything else.

• 25:28Speaker 02

  So.

• 25:28Danny Jones?

  This is when you were still driving the cab?

• 25:30Speaker 02

  I'm still driving a cab. So I slowly go to the window to look what it, and I saw a car driving away. But I couldn't really, it's nothing. I waited a little bit, I thought, maybe it's, maybe it was just somebody playing games. Maybe somebody wants me to come to the door and then they'll shoot me and so on. So a few hours passed, then I slowly opened the door. I saw an envelope pinned to the door, little envelope. Take the envelope down, go back. I opened the envelope and I see a picture of my daughter with a target on her face.

• 26:10Speaker 02

  I, if you look at me now and you see how much, how much hair I have, I lost that hair that night. It wasn't on the mission.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  I said, that would be the worst that could happen. I don't care if they kill me, if they go after me, but my daughter. Then I said, I looked at the pictures and said, wait a minute, this is a picture that I took of my daughter. And I made only three copies. One I have and two of them I sent to Israel, to my mother one and one to my mother-in-law. So I knew right there and then, somebody intercepted those pictures in Israel. And now I understand what's, who's behind it.

• 26:57Danny Jones?

  And explain how, when you saw the picture of your daughter and it had the bull's eye on it.

• 27:07Danny Jones?

  You didn't perceive that as a direct threat?

• 27:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yes. I definitely received it as a threat.

• 27:16Danny Jones?

  As a threat, but my point was, if some, if it was an actual assassin.

• 27:23Speaker 02

  Oh, no, no, it, it's not the type of threat that an assassin wouldn't send a picture.

• 27:29Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 27:30Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no. A threat is also a psychological threat.

• 27:35Danny Jones?

  Yes, right.

• 27:35Speaker 02

  They play with your mind.

• 27:36Danny Jones?

  If they actually wanted to murder one of your family members, they would not drop that thing on you.

• 27:41Speaker 02

  When we did the 11 terrorists, we didn't send the pictures.

• 27:43Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  No, no, no, of course, naturally. But it's worse, the psychological part of it is worse. I'd rather somebody just shoot me when I don't know, than send me pictures of my daughter with, and then, you know, put the psychological threat on me. So I decided I have to do something about it. For a little money.

• 28:08Danny Jones?

  Didn't you call, uh, your, your, okay.

• 28:11Speaker 02

  I'm getting, so I took, I went and bought a cheap camera. And in New York at the time, all the Israeli delegates to the United Nations, to, worked in, lived, resided in one building in.

• 28:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 28:30Speaker 02

  In Queens.

• 28:32Danny Jones?

  But wasn't there someone trying to kidnap your daughter before that? Okay, okay, okay, okay.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  So.

• 28:37Speaker 02

  Um, I decided to go to that building, to the parking lot where the kids are playing. And I took pictures of kids of 11 of members of the Israeli embassy, a consulate in New York, their daughters, the kids were playing there.

• 28:55Danny Jones?

  So let me ask you this, how did you know that it was, it was Israel doing this?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  I didn't.

• 29:00Danny Jones?

  And not, not some of the Black September?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  No, no. Who had those pictures? Only Israel had it.

• 29:04Danny Jones?

  Oh, I see. Oh, so that's what gave it away?

• 29:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 29:07Speaker 02

  I mean, that's, I assumed, and it made sense, that they would try to do something now to just scare me so much that I would pack my stuff and come back to Israel.

• 29:18Danny Jones?

  Go back to Israel, right?

• 29:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. So, um, I took the pictures, developed them, went to the consulate office in New York, got into the consulate office, good poor guy was sitting, um, behind his desk. And I said to him, hear me out, you know who I am, you know what I've been doing for the last, and he didn't, uh, for the last few years, but something happened, and I showed him the picture of my daughter. And I said, now pay attention. I opened my envelope, I put all the pictures that I took in front of him, and his two kids were also there.

• 30:00Danny Jones?

  How old?

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Oh, they were all like six, seven, you know, young, young, young kids, all young kids and the age of my daughter. So I said, I said to him, listen carefully, tell Israel that if anything happens to my daughter, never mind they want to have a fight with me, let's do it. But if anything happened to my wife or my daughter, I will kill all their kids. And you know who I am, and if you don't find out. And I left the room. He ran after me, said, no, I don't know anything about it, please. I said, I don't know if you know or you don't know, just send the message to Israel. Two days later,

• 30:41Speaker 02

  for a whole year, there were two bodyguards, Israeli bodyguards from the embassy, from the consulate, parked in front of my house, taking my daughter to kindergarten, staying there. Because I told him, even if it's an accident, I'll assume it, you guys. So you take care, make sure nothing happens to my wife and my daughter. And that was the end of it. Never heard from them again. And after a while, it was disappeared.

• 31:08Danny Jones?

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• 32:18Speaker 02

  Then I decided I need to do something drastic, to really get an insurance policy. And I decided to write the book, to write vengeance, to tell the entire story of Munich. I didn't write it myself. I had a bestseller writer, Canadian writer, George Jonas, who wrote it, and it became, as I said, a bestseller. And then the movie Munich, based on it, became seven awards, it got seven.

• 32:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:53Speaker 02

  It was nominated to seven Oscar awards and so on and so on. So that event, the movie and the book, put me on the map in America. Suddenly, I became an investigator that everybody wanted to hire, because I was gutsy, I would never give up, nobody can pressure me, nobody can do things. So I decided to open my business, my private investigating firm called Interfor Inc. I opened the office, myself and part-time secretary, in the same address I'm still in today, after so many years, uh, in Manhattan. The business grew

• 33:33Speaker 02

  through the years. I had offices in over 70 countries. Um, I became the world's leader in asset search and recovery. Going after to collect debt that everybody gave up on, debts that, that people thought that they give up, they can't be fined, but large debt. And my average collection on the cases I took on is 86 cents on a dollar. I will, it's unheard of, because if you collected at those days, two cents, four cents, five cents, you were a hero.

• 34:12Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:13Speaker 02

  Uh, when I started the business, the business grew, and I want to make a statement now, that fraud is the largest commodity in America.

• 34:24Danny Jones?

  Fraud is the largest commodity in America?

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:27Danny Jones?

  What do you mean by that?

• 34:29Speaker 02

  Fraudsters make more money by defrauding people, stealing money, embezzling money, than any other Wall Street business that you can imagine. There are over a trillion dollar a year of money that been stolen, embezzled, uh, and people, primarily from banks, insurance companies, and the tragedy behind it is that it's greed. It's all about greed. Uh, banks, once they realize they lost the money, they embarrass, they lost the investment or the

• 35:11Speaker 02

  loan they gave out, they just write it off. So if you are a good fraudster, and what I will do for the first time in your show, I will teach your audience how to do a good fraud and don't get caught. Because there is a list of things that you need to do to get away with it.

• 35:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  Number one, when you steal, steal big. Don't steal 2 million and 1 million, I'll catch you over breakfast.

• 35:39Danny Jones?

  Don't go for the cash register, go for the vault.

• 35:41Speaker 02

  Do the millions, a hundred, 200, a billion dollar, that makes sense now. And then move the money, logistically, globally, to few location. Don't just take the money and open an account in the Cayman Islands and think you're safe, or in Switzerland, you're safe. No, I'll catch you very quickly also. But you move the money in those several, you move the money first, so the Cayman, from the Cayman, you move the money to, um, to Dubai, then you move it to Singapore, then to Hong Kong. You moved it enough geographical location, and you are safe, because law enforcement in America, the police, whoever

• 36:26Speaker 02

  will be assigned to go and investigate it, don't have the budgets and the manpower to travel to all those locations. And they give it up, right, right up front, when they realize that it's offshore.

• 36:38Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 36:39Speaker 02

  So there's, that's tip number two. And then make sure that I'm, I'm not being hired to go after you, because then your luck is over, because I'll catch you. When I started the business, all the cases that came in, in that fraud detection, were in the 2 million, 3 million dollars fraud cases. And I said then, wow, people still million, 2 million, and a lot of them also don't get away with it. Five years later, all the accounts that came in were in the 50 to 100 million dollars. I didn't need to take the 2 million dollars.

• 37:16Danny Jones?

  What kind of people were hiring you?

• 37:17Speaker 02

  Banks, financial institutions, insurance companies, and individuals who lost the money, and, uh, they want to take, they're going to find the money. They need the money back. So, and this is internationally now. I get calls from law firms around the world who represent clients who have a debt, and I was recommended to them, and they'll come and call me and say, could you take the account and go after that money?

• 37:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  In the last 10 years, yeah, uh, all the cases that we take on as a firm are in the billions, per case. People steal billions of dollars, and a lot of them got away with it. Because the name of the trick is, once you moved your money, file bankruptcy. Once the opponents know that you're in bankruptcy, they give up. Because they're not gonna, they're gonna get it. Because the bankruptcy court has to find it first, and they don't have the budget to do that. They don't have the manpower to do it. They assigned it to a trustee who doesn't have the clue how to go about it. So he confiscate your house, and

• 38:34Speaker 02

  maybe your car, and if you have a watch, he takes your watch away, and that's the end of it. So those people get a penny on a dollar, three pennies on a dollar, and that's it. And you hang along, you don't do anything stupid, you don't go and flash money, and eat pizza for a year, and don't, don't just show off. People forget about it, and you're free. Then you can enjoy your money. That is what the fraudsters are doing. So fraud became my biggest business. Then came the time where the government came back, but that's a different part of the government, and asked me to come and work for them on special assignments that I

• 39:22Speaker 02

  Call the shadow government. Because it's not the official government anymore that comes and calls me. But there are officials in the government. And as high level as possible, including people who are in the White House. And say, there are assignments that we need, we would like you to do, undertake. That we need deniability. That we need to make sure that if anything goes wrong, we don't know you. And you're crazy, you did it on your own.

• 39:52Danny Jones?

  So these are high level White House officials?

• 39:54Speaker 02

  High level White House official and a current and ex. And people who are not anymore there. But now have got together as a. I'm looking for, it's not a club, it's not a cult. But it's a team that has made a decision. And they're all top, top ex officials. Who have retired, but still think that they know what's good for America.

• 40:25Danny Jones?

  Like Dick Cheney types?

• 40:26Speaker 02

  Like Dick Cheney types. And indeed, Dick Cheney was the one who brought me in originally.

• 40:34Danny Jones?

  Dick Cheney is the one who brought you in originally?

• 40:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. To this club. And that assignments, those assignments are assignments that Congress will never approve. But they think that they know how to, they know that it's good for America. We need to do them. Because if you go to Congress, they will never approve it. By the time they have, you'll have a budget for that. By the time they're gonna allow you to do that, years will pass. They have no time to lose. They wanted those operations be done now.

• 41:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 41:09Speaker 02

  So again, I have taken on those, some of those assignments. In an agreement where I get paid. They have no control of how I do it. If I'm successful, they'll read it in a paper. And if I'm not successful, who cares? That's the agreement, in a way. And all those assignments were very successful, thank God.

• 41:36Danny Jones?

  So why did Dick Cheney reach out to you?

• 41:39Speaker 02

  Um, I was recommended to him. I met him on several occasions privately. Um, and he heard about my past, he heard about, he knew who I am. So he decided that, and he also saw my activities in the fraud department. How I detect fraudsters, Russian oligarchs, people who stole money all over and then hide it. You know, in, in locations that you've never heard of. Um, they found a bank and put it there. And I find the money and I collect it.

• 42:14Danny Jones?

  So is this what he wanted you to do?

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Not the fraud part.

• 42:18Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 42:19Speaker 02

  But the special other operations that are political operations.

• 42:24Danny Jones?

  Okay, like surprise, kill, vanish type stuff?

• 42:27Speaker 02

  I'm sorry?

• 42:28Danny Jones?

  Like surprise, kill, vanish type stuff, like?

• 42:31Speaker 02

  Some of them.

• 42:32Danny Jones?

  Making people disappear?

• 42:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, make people disappear. They're not Americans, not in America, but all abroad. In countries that America is in war with, that is our enemies. And um, they decided that the way to do it is better than what the Pentagon is doing right now.

• 42:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, there's something to be said about that.

• 43:03Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 43:03Danny Jones?

  About surgical, surgical strikes.

• 43:05Speaker 02

  And the only reason I'm.

• 43:06Danny Jones?

  Cutting throats in the night versus dropping bombs.

• 43:09Speaker 02

  The only reason that I took on those assignments is because I personally believed in them also. I, I, I realized that if we're successful, it will put such a dent on those enemy countries. That it maybe will help America, help us um, quicker um, to solve.

• 43:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  A relationship.

• 43:32Danny Jones?

  If you can use intelligence and tactically insert people into certain locations.

• 43:39Speaker 02

  Right.

• 43:40Danny Jones?

  To take out the, the head or the heart of the snake.

• 43:43Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 43:43Danny Jones?

  Versus, you know, insane blunt force trauma of dropping bombs and collateral damage and all that stuff.

• 43:50Speaker 02

  That's the idea.

• 43:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  The idea is.

• 43:52Danny Jones?

  I, I believe that that's a way better way to do it.

• 43:54Speaker 02

  No, I believe in also. And when I looked at, when I looked, you know, you're not always, now looking back historically. I slowly lose the belief that this always will solve a problem. Because when I took the Munich assignment originally to get this terrorist in Europe. And I said, we'll get rid of all those masterminds of terrorism and, and, and who did the Munich and so on. And that will solve the problem. A week later, they hired other people. So that's why I didn't want to continue doing, because there will always be people that Israel now will wanna get rid of. Which they're doing, but in different way. Now they're bombing a whole building to kill one of them.

• 44:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 44:38Speaker 02

  And, and they're not doing what we used to do in the past. Surgically, one on one. And no bystander are hurt, innocent bystanders are hurt.

• 44:49Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 44:50Speaker 02

  So those were the kind of assignments that I liked because I believed in them. I believed in them. And they're not only assignments of elimination of people, but also verifying where locations are in Iran that they hide nuclear paraphernalia. And where are those scientists developing those bombs? You cannot do it from the air. You can take pictures from now until Doomster. You take a picture of a mountain and you don't know what's in a mountain. You need people on the ground to go in there, to do all those things that America could not do officially.

• 45:35Speaker 02

  Because Congress will not allow it.

• 45:38Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Period. So those became, that became the business I got into in the last 25, 30 years. 25 years, 28 years. And I stayed away from the asset search and recovery. My son took over that part of the building, business and the office, and he's doing that.

• 46:02Danny Jones?

  So one more question to the shadow government you're alluding to.

• 46:05Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 46:07Danny Jones?

  They're like, essentially this group of people who have been a part of the US.

• 46:17Speaker 02

  Elite.

• 46:18Danny Jones?

  Elite government, White House, military apparatus for a long time. They still might be current publicly facing, or they might be, you know, quote unquote, retired, however you wanna say that.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  That's right, exactly.

• 46:29Danny Jones?

  Essentially, they are the behind the scenes, doing whatever they please. And the government that we see publicly facing is all a show, all, all a show?

• 46:41Speaker 02

  They don't, they don't know about it.

• 46:44Danny Jones?

  They don't even know about it?

• 46:45Speaker 02

  They don't know about it. They know about it when it's over, when the assignment is over. But they really don't know and they don't care because they cannot do it. You see, if I.

• 46:54Danny Jones?

  So this is not a democracy, essentially?

• 46:57Speaker 02

  No.

• 46:58Danny Jones?

  But they're doing a good job faking it?

• 46:59Speaker 02

  They're doing a great job. But you know, if you look who they are, if you look at the Dick Cheney, uh, Bush Senior. Some other people who were ex CIA people, ex, ex head of whatever, presidents and so on. Who meet once or twice a month, somewhere in a location, somewhere, and make decisions. They run the real country. In my opinion.

• 47:36Speaker 02

  The official thing that we see in the news every day of the decisions that the Pentagon is doing and the president are doing.

• 47:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:47Speaker 02

  It's lip service. I mean, it's, it's something that, you need it also, but you. But they're not, they're not really doing the, what needs to be done. I believe.

• 48:00Danny Jones?

  Do you think that they can control who becomes president?

• 48:06Speaker 02

  At a time I thought so. At a time, it's also until Trump was elected. That's when I didn't believe that they did the right. If they were really behind putting presidents in the White House, then they goofed, in my opinion now, badly.

• 48:26Danny Jones?

  The first, you're talking about 2016, you think that, you, you don't believe that, that group of shadow government people would have wanted Trump in the White House, is what you're saying?

• 48:37Speaker 02

  I think they probably thought it's a cute idea to have somebody who is really from the outside.

• 48:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:46Speaker 02

  Who speaks well, the public loves him, he has a lot of followers.

• 48:50Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:50Speaker 02

  Maybe he's a guy who will sit there and really won't, will not do any harm. He will be the, it's, it's gonna be a show. It's gonna be like a, a show, a funny show. You have a funny president sitting there making jokes and so.

• 49:06Danny Jones?

  There won't be a dull moment.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  It won't be a dull moment. So we can do our work quietly behind the scene and nobody will bother us. He will occupy the media and we will behind the scene run America and do what needs to be done. Now, I'm not familiar with the entire group. They're current people who are maybe now in high position, also part of that group. But the people I met were the highest of the highest.

• 49:41Danny Jones?

  Wow. Jeremy George Bush Senior?

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 49:48Danny Jones?

  What was that like?

• 49:52Speaker 02

  They were professionals.

• 49:53Danny Jones?

  Professionals?

• 49:54Speaker 02

  Okay, to my liking.

• 49:56Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  I mean, I mean, they were, they dressed well, they behaved like a president. He behaved, I mean, I don't have to agree with everything he said or did and so on. But you want to see somebody who is honest and serious. He would not defraud anybody. He would not take anybody's money. I mean, he had, I'm looking for a word.

• 50:27Speaker 02

  Channing was different.

• 50:28Danny Jones?

  Cheney was different.

• 50:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, Cheney was different. Cheney was Cheney, you know, I mean, he shot his friend and he away with it, you know, he was, he was. But sharp as you can imagine. Very, very experienced with international events. So they were very, very, it was an honor to be part of that

• 50:57Speaker 02

  meeting when they were there.

• 51:00Speaker 02

  You know, I look back where I'm coming from.

• 51:03Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this, compared to then, when Cheney brought you in

• 51:08Danny Jones?

  to do some of these operations for them, and compared to where we are now, I don't know how much connection you still have to this group, but do you think they're gaining more power? Or do you think it's the same? Do you think it's less? The same?

• 51:20Speaker 02

  It's the same power, different people. Some of the old ones are still there, but I don't see them so often. The new ones.

• 51:32Speaker 02

  I have less respect to the new ones than I had for the old ones. But maybe it's just because of me and my relationship, because how they were carrying themselves in a meeting.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  And what they were saying and how they were saying, and they were really careful. They really, really thought it through every assignment and why we would need it and why it should be done. It's not what you see on TV today, when unfortunately our president, every day says something else. I mean, and then he goes to Europe and is embarrassing America and embarrassing himself and is going against NATO. I mean, we're too busy now

• 52:16Speaker 02

  fighting the wrong wars internally versus the problems we have legitimately abroad. We have issues with Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, that need to, we need, we need a different team. Professional team with experience dealing with those problems. And we don't have. The shadow government is a better government right now than them.

• 52:45Danny Jones?

  Is the shadow government a monolith? Or are there different factions of the shadow government with different, with different?

• 52:52Speaker 02

  No.

• 52:52Danny Jones?

  Agendas?

• 52:53Speaker 02

  No, no, no, it's one group with one. Whether they have different ideas or different agendas among themselves, I don't know. I mean, I'm not really part of all the meetings. I'm just brought in when I'm getting the assignment. So I meet them. But the way it's been done and carried, carried away is amazing.

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• 54:44Speaker 02

  See, the shadow government is, for example, let's take the situation today. The current situation that we are in with this type of war that we're involved in.

• 54:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the Iran war.

• 54:57Speaker 02

  Shadow government's point of view is that Netanyahu took advantage of Trump. That he tried, and they should know better because some of them were there at the time when Netanyahu tried to convince other presidents to do the war against Iran and they refused to do it. They realized that this is something that you don't start if you don't know how you finish it and how you get out of it. And Iran is not just an enemy who's gonna just fall apart in five minutes and you can have a victory. And it was Netanyahu's dream for as long as he was a prime minister, even before,

• 55:37Speaker 02

  to punish Iran for something that I don't know, but he wanted to, he was convinced that if Iran get a nuclear bomb, they will use it against Israel. That was his thought. Whether it's true or not, we don't know. Personally, I don't believe that they would, even if they had one, they would have used it against Israel. Because Israel is a nuclear country and has many more bombs than the one bomb that they can develop in Iran. And they would destroy Iran. That's the end. So.

• 56:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it doesn't seem, just from recent history, you know, going back to when Trump bombed Soleimani.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 56:19Danny Jones?

  That they're, they're an unhinged, unreasonable.

• 56:22Speaker 02

  They're not, they're smart.

• 56:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  Smarter than what the media is portraying them here. And the media is playing the game also and portray them as like, you know, peasants who don't even know how to read and write and so on. No.

• 56:37Danny Jones?

  Because when we killed Soleimani, they literally did nothing.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  Nothing, because it's all calculated. They realized we can replace Soleimani. We don't want to create a big war. And

• 56:51Speaker 02

  the shadow government convinced that Netanyahu, which is true, in my opinion too, he said, oh, I found a president finally who will do it. He flew to New York and met with Trump several times and convinced him to start this war.

• 57:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 57:07Speaker 02

  Now, why didn't, why didn't, why didn't, why did they both need a war? They both personally have some problems, personal problems. Netanyahu has his own legal issues that if his court case is going to see light in Israel and be finished, he's going to be in jail for embezzlement, for, for, for, for taking a lot of money and doing a lot of things. And his life depend on the unrest right now in the Middle East that is constantly, he has to stop the trial. He can't appear because he's busy with the war. And, and the trial is now how many years and not going anywhere.

• 57:52Speaker 02

  And Trump has his own issues internally with Lewinsky, I'm sorry, with Epstein and so on. So they both needed a war. And something big that would preoccupy the media and the public. They got together and they got it. Now they're both stuck with it. They don't know how to stop it, which was predicted before. And the federal, the shadow government was warning against it, was trying behind the scene to convince the right people in the government, in the various, in Congress, in Senate, don't allow it to happen. Don't allow to have a war. Don't push, but it was too late.

• 58:37Speaker 02

  Too late because Trump apparently is so convincing to his followers that whatever he touches will be a miracle and solve things. And now everybody's facing the truth that he really doesn't have the answers. He doesn't know how to stop it.

• 58:56Danny Jones?

  You're.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  Same with Netanyahu.

• 58:59Danny Jones?

  From your perspective, how much of a threat do you think Iran is to the United States?

• 59:05Speaker 02

  To the United States, zero. We're so far away from the United States, from Iran, that if we wouldn't have started a war and the stratosphere would be open, we had no real war with Iran. We had no war with Iran. They were not a threat to the United States.

• 59:24Danny Jones?

  And what do you make of all the claims?

• 59:25Speaker 02

  Threat to Israel, yes. They had Hezbollah, they had Hamas, they had, I mean, they're financing, they're instigating those, those other groups to, against Israel. So Israel had a, Netanyahu had a better reason why he needed something to happen there than, than Trump.

• 59:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 59:46Speaker 02

  But Trump went along with it.

• 59:50Danny Jones?

  Now, the narrative has changed in the United States government about the Iran war. They first said it was regime change, now it's like they can't have a nuke. And the goalpost keeps, keeps moving. And at one point, I think even Marco Rubio said on live TV that we had to do it because Israel struck first. And we knew that they were going to retaliate, so we had to step in and help. And then they came back and like they walked it back later, so.

• 1:00:16Speaker 02

  Of course, it was, it's all.

• 1:00:18Danny Jones?

  The, the narrative, they're completely fucking up the narrative, but like, how realistic, we know, we've seen the videos of Netanyahu pounding the drums about, oh my God, they're one week away. They're one week away since the, since the 90s.

• 1:00:31Speaker 02

  He is, now it's my opinion, but I'm going to say it's my opinion. Netanyahu is more danger than Trump because he's smarter than Trump. Netanyahu is a smart, shrewd individual. MIT graduate, a very shrewd and experienced demagogue. Trump is not, not in education, not in, in, in, in understanding of Middle East affairs. If you have asked Trump, where is Iran on the map before he started? I'm not sure he would have known where it is. He would, I mean.

• 1:01:15Danny Jones?

  That's funny.

• 1:01:15Speaker 02

  And Netanyahu took advantage of it. I mean, it's, it's, I'm not saying something that it's not so obvious, it's obvious. It's so obvious that, that the truth, and it's unfortunately the truth because it's backfiring on everything that we believe in. The relationship of America and Israel is ruined. Anti-Semitism is growing worldwide because of all those moves. And all those things that I never thought I will see in my lifetime are now happening in, in a very short time.

• 1:01:51Danny Jones?

  So I had John Karayaku on the podcast recently and he is, uh, he was CIA operations and, and analyst on counterterrorism.

• 1:02:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know, I know.

• 1:02:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, for many years and he, he whistleblowed on the torture program, went to prison for a couple of years, came out, wrote a bunch of books, now he's super popular. He was telling me that there was a, something called a, I believe it was called a national intelligence assessment on Iran, two of them, over the last 15 years. And he said, what happens there is the head of all, what is it, 17 or 18 intelligence agencies inside the United States, the head of each one of those 18 intelligence agencies, they go to their agency, they said, give me a full assessment on what you believe. Does Iran have a nuclear program or no?

• 1:02:42Danny Jones?

  And all, each one of the agencies did the reports, gave it to the, to the top, the head of the agency. The head of each agency came to a roundtable and he said it was unanimous between all of them that they did not believe that they had a nuclear program in Iran.

• 1:03:00Speaker 02

  Exactly. They had, I can tell you because I studied it myself. I, one of my operations is studying Iran's nuclear capabilities and who's behind it and who is currently pushing it and where has it been pushed and so on and so forth. Like every country who is in a war and they thought that they're in war with Israel and they had, Israel has nuclear officially, we all know that. They admitted on it. They decided at one point it would be good to have one too. But they were years away from developing seriously.

• 1:03:44Speaker 02

  They started developing capabilities and equipment and centrifuges and so on and so forth. But they were not a threat allegedly now. By the time you have a bomb, you also need something to carry the bomb to wherever you target the bomb.

• 1:03:59Danny Jones?

  Right, an ICBM or something.

• 1:04:01Speaker 02

  You need, yeah, you need ICBMs, you need missile, you need, there's a lot going on. And the more components that you rely on and need to make it happen, you open up to intelligence and people who know you're getting closer because now you have the missile, now you have the other part and so on and so forth. So if you took all those parts that are needed for a crude bomb, one bomb to send to Israel, they were far away from it. They were working on those little things, but they were not close.

• 1:04:37Danny Jones?

  Do you believe the, how, how they say that, um, who was the, who was the leader of Iran that they killed like day one? I forgot, I can't remember his name. Anyways, he was like the, the head religious leader of the country. They killed him instantly, or him and his, part of his, a bunch of his family members died. And the story is that he had some sort of a religious declaration that it was, it was part of their, their religious, whatever you call it, their commandments to not create a nuke.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:05:07Danny Jones?

  You believe that?

• 1:05:08Speaker 02

  Yes. Yeah. Not to use, not to create and not to use.

• 1:05:12Danny Jones?

  Not to create and not to use.

• 1:05:13Speaker 02

  Because that, he, he saw it, even he, how crazy he was and religious fanatic was, realized that that is something that will be the end of Iran. That Iran will not survive sending one bomb and throw it on Israel and get away with it.

• 1:05:32Danny Jones?

  Right. It'd be suicide, right?

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  That's right. Even he knew that. But when they lecture, when they talk, when they preach to their followers, they have to be tough. Oh yeah, we're gonna have, we're gonna have bombs coming up and we're gonna throw them all over and so on and so forth. Listen, Trump is saying things on a daily basis that he cannot follow up on.

• 1:05:55Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:05:55Speaker 02

  That he cannot make happen at all. The old leaders are doing it. And Netanyahu was the master of creating a story about why we need to attack Iran immediately. And the reason immediately was his trial was getting developed and developed and so on. And he wanted to be there. His life dream was to make an attack on Iran. And he wanted it to happen, he knew if the trial is over, he's gone. That's it. And whoever going to, to, to become the new prime minister, he will not attack Iran and, and, and crazy stuff about nuclear. He knew that.

• 1:06:38Speaker 02

  So there were two people who had personal issues, personal agenda who got together and the war happens. And now, I don't know how we're going to get out of it.

• 1:06:54Danny Jones?

  How much influence do you think Netanyahu or the Israeli government or Israeli billionaires have over Americans, politicians in particular?

• 1:07:08Speaker 02

  It's Netanyahu, it's not Israeli government. Well, there's so, yeah, few people in the government who would say yes to anything that Netanyahu says. As Trump has his own cronies in the government who, who will echo him and copy him and so on. And nobody will dare saying to him, hey, are you crazy? This is not a good idea. No one, no one today in the White House would dare to come to a meeting and tell the, Mr. President, you're wrong. This is not to, we don't think you should do that. So same thing in Israel with Netanyahu. So it's Netanyahu and it's actually Netanyahu makes all the decisions.

• 1:07:51Speaker 02

  And he is the one who controls Trump, period, period.

• 1:07:57Danny Jones?

  How? How does he control Trump, do you think?

• 1:07:59Speaker 02

  Well, he got, he, he got Trump to join this war and now he's compromised. Now, now Trump needs Netanyahu to maybe help him finish this war. Cause he doesn't know how to do it on, not militarily. Militarily, you can bomb Iran from now until doomsday. It not, they don't care if millions of people are dying. The regime over there will not, doesn't care if million people will die for the cause of, of this war.

• 1:08:33Danny Jones?

  Well, it's disrupting the whole world economy, not to our favor, and they're bombing our allies and we can't even protect our own allies.

• 1:08:39Speaker 02

  You got it. And slowly we're gonna lose some, some, as we just lost yesterday to, or the day before yesterday. I mean, we're gonna lose more people. It's, it's a war. Eventually we're gonna use more. So.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Both of them are stuck now. Even Netanyahu has admitted in to people that I know who are close and friends that he doesn't think he made the right choice.

• 1:09:06Danny Jones?

  Netanyahu.

• 1:09:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, said to, but he would never officially admit it. He can't. He can't. He can't. It's the ego sickness of both Netanyahu and Trump.

• 1:09:19Danny Jones?

  So why is Trump, in your opinion, you know, from a guy from Trump, who we could play, we could run tape of Trump from now till next Friday, saying how stupid a Middle East war, another forever Middle East war would be, or another war with Iran. He's tweeted against Obama, Biden, all these presidents.

• 1:09:40Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:09:40Danny Jones?

  Saying how stupid and weak they were. And like, watch, it's going to prove how weak they are when they try to invade Iran. And now he's doing a complete 180. Why do you think he's the first president to do this?

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  I have no idea. It's because of him, his personality.

• 1:09:56Danny Jones?

  How was Netanyahu able to convince him to do it?

• 1:09:59Speaker 02

  Very easy. Very easy. He, he read Trump's book, as we say. He read his book. He knows how he operates. He knows he's, he needs to be flattered ego. He know that he has to play on his ego. And if he comes into the White House and tells the president, listen, you're going to be the hero. You and us, we're going to bomb the shit out of Iran for two, three days. We're going to change the regime. The people are going to come out and demonstrate and take over. And there's going to be a place in heaven. You're going to be there later on, building the whole place up.

• 1:10:42Speaker 02

  You're going to have Trump Towers all over Tehran. You're going to have golf courses all over the region. This is going to be, you, you're going to have, you're going to get the Nobel Prize just for that. That was music to Trump's ear. And we all know that. Whoever flatters him today gets his ear. No one around him in the White House thought it was a great idea. Even his vice president said, I don't think we should do it. But then he was afraid to continue in pushing not to do that. And he said, well, you know, I, that's my opinion, but if you decide you want to do it, Mr. President, I will, I will, I will.

• 1:11:27Danny Jones?

  I hear you. I hear you.

• 1:11:29Speaker 02

  And that was Netanyahu, that was Netanyahu figured out quickly after visiting with Trump a few times. I need to flatter him. I need to build him up and he will come and do the job. Once he starts, he cannot stop. You see, Netanyahu even said, we, we need to get America to throw the first bomb. Once they throw the first bomb, they cannot stop.

• 1:11:52Danny Jones?

  I hear you. And I agree with you. He likes to be buttered up. But I don't think that's enough to get him to do that.

• 1:12:02Speaker 02

  To do what?

• 1:12:04Danny Jones?

  To do a war with Iran.

• 1:12:05Speaker 02

  You don't think that that was enough?

• 1:12:07Danny Jones?

  I don't, I don't know if I believe that that is enough to convince him to do that. To sell him this idea, it's going to be great. You're going to save America.

• 1:12:16Speaker 02

  Then I have to tell you something. Then, then I, that's the first time that I will tell you, you're wrong. You're absolutely wrong. And I'll tell you why. Because Netanyahu is not just sitting there and say, oh, you're going to be great and so on. Netanyahu is shrewd. He brings in maps. He brings in photos. He brings in stuff that, that Mossad put together for him, perfennelia to show him. You see that little shadow over there? That's where the stuff is. If we need to get in there and Trump, what does he know? He doesn't, he doesn't call the head of the CIA and his intelligence advisors and say, come guys, uh, look at the map, what do you think? He never does it. He never ask anyone in the White House for opinion.

• 1:13:00Speaker 02

  It's his decisions. And when Netanyahu is a convincing person, oh, I'm telling you, this guy is a mega convincing phenomena.

• 1:13:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:11Speaker 02

  When he comes in and he start work, to start working on you, you'll do anything he tells you. Because he's playing you and looking at your eyes, constantly talking and looking and see what else is missing. Are you, are you, are you convinced?

• 1:13:25Danny Jones?

  Juval, there's no leverage? Do you believe, what's the leverage here? What's this invisible, where's the invisible hand that we're not seeing?

• 1:13:31Speaker 02

  Okay, the invisible hand in is that he also has. Netanyahu also had Epstein in his pocket. Epstein and Netanyahu worked together. Epstein was an, a Mossad spy in certain degrees. And I know it because I wrote the book about it. I wrote Max, which is part of what we're going to talk maybe about. So, uh, he had enough, let's, let's leave it by saying, by me saying, he has enough blackmail material

• 1:14:13Speaker 02

  on Trump that he hadn't, he didn't need to use. But he has it if he needs it regarding Epstein and the whole Epstein idea.

• 1:14:30Danny Jones?

  Okay, so let's rewind and explain to the audience how you originally met Ghislaine Maxwell.

• 1:14:42Speaker 02

  Okay. I, um, I had an office in your, in London. I had offices all over the world for my business, for the Interfor business, for my private investigating firm. At one point, I had a front store, an antique store in the middle of London. That was my office. And the store was a pretext of some stuff that we were involved in.

• 1:15:10Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:15:11Speaker 02

  And I was like selling antiques, but I was not selling the antiques.

• 1:15:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:15Speaker 02

  Um, and I had real unbelievable antiques that I got. By the way, I wish I sold them. The reason I needed the, the antique store is because when you have an antique store, you have a warehouse, a big warehouse to keep the merchandise until you bring them to the store.

• 1:15:32Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:15:33Speaker 02

  And in that warehouse, we kept a lot of stuff in concealed, apart, apart, concealed components of the antiques furniture. Drawers that nobody knew existed and there was stuff in it and so on, so forth. So I'm sitting in my office in showroom and I'm thinking about doing some operations. Suddenly I look and a young, attractive, very attractive girl walks into, starts looking around the antique and I realize she's not really interested in the antique, but she's just walking around pretending she's interested. Then she approaches me and she said, um, can I talk to you privately, please? And I said, yes.

• 1:16:18Speaker 02

  And I had the brownstone. The store was downstairs and my apartment was upstairs. Apartment and office was upstairs on the second floor. So I go up with her to the second floor and she says, Mr. Aviv, I know who you are. I know about your background. I would like to hire you. And I said, who are you? She says, I'm Ghislaine Maxwell. You know my father, Mr. Maxwell. He told me all about you. He told you, he knows all about you from his day in a Mossad. That was her words. I said, well, what would you like me to do for you?

• 1:17:03Speaker 02

  I'm not doing anything else but selling antiques. She said, um, I would like to hire you as an investigator. I would like you to investigate who killed my father. And as you know, it's in the press, my father embezzled over 650 million dollars of the pension funds of all the publications that my father owned in England and in the US. He was the biggest media tycoon in Europe at the time, rival to, um,

• 1:17:43Speaker 02

  Fox News.

• 1:17:45Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Murdoch.

• 1:17:47Speaker 02

  Murdoch, yeah. The biggest rival of Murdoch. They were both right. And he was on his yacht in the Mediterranean. The story was that he had a heart attack and fell off board and drowned.

• 1:18:01Danny Jones?

  Well, taking a leak off the side of the yacht, right?

• 1:18:03Speaker 02

  That's right. Which we'll get to. That was his hat. Yeah. His nightly.

• 1:18:08Danny Jones?

  Routine.

• 1:18:09Speaker 02

  Routines. So she said, I'd like to to find the money. Where the money is because I need to return it to the pension. The pension is who lost everything. And I need to find out who killed my father. I said, well, it's the first time that I understand that your father now that you're claiming that he was killed. But I really not in a business anymore. I don't, I'm not an investigator anymore. She said, well, I'm gonna leave you my card and I know that you are going to want to do this case. Why don't you study that idea? And call me in a week and tell me whether you take on the case or not. And she leaves. I looked at the case.

• 1:18:54Danny Jones?

  Why did you tell her that?

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  I'm sorry?

• 1:18:56Danny Jones?

  Why did you tell her that you don't do it anymore?

• 1:18:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, because I didn't want to get involved in a political. I realize it's politics.

• 1:19:06Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 1:19:06Speaker 02

  And what happened to him and I wasn't sure and so on. So I wanted just to gain time. And I said to her before she left, I'm sorry, I said to her before she left, if I take, if I take the investigation, I want you to know. I will need two, three weeks to study it on my own before I even accept it or not. If I decide that I cannot help you because there's nothing there to find, I don't want to take any money from you. I don't want to work for you. I will only take it if I can bring value to the table. If I know that I can really collect some money for you or find out who killed your father, I'll take on this case. And off she went.

• 1:19:47Speaker 02

  I called my office, my research department, and we have, I have one of the largest research department in the industry. We're subscribed to thousands of databases worldwide and a lot of them connected to law enforcement agencies and so on. And I said, do you homework about Robert Maxwell? What happened to him? And tell me what's in public domain? What was written about and so on?

• 1:20:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:20:13Speaker 02

  Because the press all over the world was, that was the topic of the day, as we say, in the US and Europe and so on.

• 1:20:22Danny Jones?

  1991, was it?

• 1:20:23Speaker 02

  And he came back. Their team came back and said to me, well, this is what we found. His body was found 16 miles away from the boat. He fell into the water, there was current, a lot of current, strong current in the Mediterranean at the time, and his body was surfing somewhere about 16 miles from the boat. That's my number one. The structure of the boat is such, his bedroom was on the top, which the boat looks like a small pyramid.

• 1:20:58Danny Jones?

  Can you find a picture of the Lady Ghislaine yacht?

• 1:21:02Speaker 02

  And on top of it, even if you had a heart attack and you were standing at the rail on the top part of it, where the bedroom is, if you fell, you only would fall into the lower level and then there's another level before you reach the water. There is no way you can die.

• 1:21:25Danny Jones?

  That's not it.

• 1:21:26Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  Oh, that's a dancing, why, what the fuck? Uh, Lady Ghislaine.

• 1:21:31Danny Jones?

  Far right, top right.

• 1:21:34Speaker 03

  There, okay.

• 1:21:41Danny Jones?

  That's the boat, right?

• 1:21:42Speaker 02

  That's the boat, but it's, the angle is not, we need a side angle.

• 1:21:45Danny Jones?

  Find another, another good angle of it.

• 1:21:48Speaker 03

  Is this, this is the make, it's the same model.

• 1:21:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the same boat. That's, that looks like it.

• 1:21:52Speaker 02

  Okay, okay, if you go up to the top, the top, top level, you can see that, you don't see it from here also, that the boat, the top level is narrower than the other tops downstairs.

• 1:22:03Danny Jones?

  Right, it gets wider towards the bottom of it.

• 1:22:05Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So if you fell from the top, you don't fall into the water. You fall into the lower level and then there are two more levels before you reach the water.

• 1:22:14Danny Jones?

  And so I always thought the story was, he was standing on the transom on the back of the boat.

• 1:22:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:22:20Danny Jones?

  On the bottom level pissing off of it.

• 1:22:21Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no, he wasn't in his bed. He never went down there.

• 1:22:25Danny Jones?

  He was up in his bed?

• 1:22:26Speaker 02

  In his bed, in his bedroom.

• 1:22:28Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:22:29Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 1:22:31Danny Jones?

  The plot thickens.

• 1:22:32Speaker 02

  Yes. So when I saw that, I saw the picture, not that, but similar picture, and I said, he didn't fall off. He have been pushed off.

• 1:22:43Danny Jones?

  Look at that one, yeah.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, he has been pushed off. You see, it's on the top.

• 1:22:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:49Speaker 02

  Okay. So then we found out that the banks that he borrowed the money from prior to the embezzlement and so on, were chasing him. He owed millions of dollars because he bought publications for a lot of money that didn't make money. He was an egomaniac who wanted to have an empire of publications. So he would pay for publications that nobody wanted and nobody cared about.

• 1:23:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:22Speaker 02

  Millions of dollars and then lost money and owed the banks money.

• 1:23:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:23:27Speaker 02

  So he was under investigation for the embezzlement and by the US government and by the British government. Because there were both pension funds in America and pension funds in England that he stole the money from. And he was about to come to testify in the US and in England, had to come to court to testify because he was sued by the governments for embezzlement. So one of the theory was that he committed, because he didn't want to take on those trials,

• 1:24:07Speaker 02

  he knew he's not gonna win and his ego wouldn't allow him to even tell the truth about it. So I realized that indeed, there is a story that hasn't been told here. Then I read the news that what happened to him, his body was found, was whisked to the Canary Island. No autopsy was made in the Canary Island and his government of Israel came and picked him up and flew him to Israel right away, the body. No autopsy was made in Israel because his wife sued for the autopsy and never got it.

• 1:24:46Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:24:47Speaker 02

  And the body was buried in Jerusalem in the most holiest.

• 1:24:53Danny Jones?

  The Mount of Olives, right?

• 1:24:54Speaker 02

  The Mount of Olives. It's a cemetery that only presidents and, and, and heads of Mossad or whatever are buried there. No foreigner would be buried there.

• 1:25:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  So I said to myself, what did he do to Israel to earn him? Hey, to whisk him right away from, without an autopsy and burying him over there? Then there were press releases about the funeral. Every leading member of the Israeli government going back 100 years, if they're still alive, came to the funeral.

• 1:25:30Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:25:30Speaker 02

  All the heads of Mossad and everyone, there were never so many dignities at one point in one place, which is against security, for a funeral for somebody that nobody knows about. What did he do for Israel? All he, all we knew, he was, he owned two Israeli small newspapers that nobody ever read and a soccer team that was playing in the fourth league, the fifth league and whatever. So that was his, officially what he's done for Israel. There must be a story behind it. So I said, I'm gonna take it on. And now I'm curious and interested in it. So I called her back to the office and I said, I'll take it on.

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  She said, I know you will. I said to her, but I have two questions for you. One, when I was, did do the research, when we did the research, I, there was a lot of fingerprints that were alike, that I looked at what he was doing financially and how he was presumably hiding his money, that he stole and so on. I said, the fingerprints, as an investigator now, as a financial investigator, shows me that he was using somebody else as an expert to hide money that, to help him. He didn't have the knowledge to do.

• 1:26:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:26:54Speaker 02

  What he did. And the fingerprints that look most like somebody that I have investigated in the past, that have used the same type of mechanism to hide the money, was Epstein. And I said to myself, would be curious if they both worked together.

• 1:27:15Danny Jones?

  So you knew about Epstein, Jeffrey Epstein, before Robert Maxwell was dead?

• 1:27:20Speaker 02

  I investigated him on behalf of a client.

• 1:27:24Danny Jones?

  A client?

• 1:27:25Speaker 02

  Yes, a financial client who loaned him, who laundered, that Epstein loaned his money, laundered his money.

• 1:27:32Danny Jones?

  Laundered his money.

• 1:27:33Speaker 02

  And then when he came to ask for some of the money, Epstein told him, you know, I don't know you. I don't, I don't know, you never gave me money.

• 1:27:43Danny Jones?

  So Epstein stole it from him?

• 1:27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he decided.

• 1:27:46Danny Jones?

  What year roughly was this? Early 80s, mid 80s?

• 1:27:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:27:50Danny Jones?

  80s?

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  So now I said, aha, bingo, I want, I want this case. Because it looks, I said to her, blank, I looked at her face and I said, tell me, did your father ever worked with Epstein in New York? And she got red in her face. I mean, she, I mean, she was shattered. I said, what's the matter? She said, well, yes, my father worked with Epstein. I don't want you to investigate that. That is one area I don't want you to look into. And this is not what I'm hiring you to. And she said, there's also another reason why I don't want you to do that. And I said, what is that?

• 1:28:35Speaker 02

  She said, well, I have a personal relationship with Epstein. We have a relationship. I said, say no more. Now I understand. It's no problem. I don't, you just admitted what I needed to know. And I took on the case and did the investigation and wrote a book about it called Manks.

• 1:28:58Danny Jones?

  So you had met Robert Maxwell?

• 1:29:01Speaker 02

  I met him and then I met his family. I met his butler. I met the crew of the boat and they allowed me to go and inspect the boat. That was part of the arrangement I had with Galen. You make arrangement for me before the boat has been sold. That I want to be, I don't, will have an access to the boat. I want to go and examine the boat, his bedroom and so on.

• 1:29:28Danny Jones?

  But you met, but you, how long before he died, did you meet him? How did you meet him?

• 1:29:32Speaker 02

  Two, three years before.

• 1:29:34Danny Jones?

  What was that about? What did you guys, what were you guys doing?

• 1:29:37Speaker 02

  I met him. I had met him through a client who was trying, he bought a newspaper for a client.

• 1:29:48Speaker 02

  My client and never paid him for the newspaper. So I was supposed to go and meet with Maxwell and say, listen, he is in, he's desperate for the money. His wife is sick. Could you pay him and so on, just to negotiate a settlement?

• 1:30:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:03Speaker 02

  Before we go after him. So I met him and he was charming, beyond charming. We, he took me out to dinner and I met him two, three times after it for dinner stew. And I met him in New York when he came to New York. So we became buddies for a while. Maxwell, we were friends, but, and he paid the guy little money, didn't pay for the newspaper. Send him some money just because I really begged him to do that. It's the right thing to do. And I jokingly said, you can, you can defraud other people, but not this poor guy. This is a small timer. You do the big ones, leave him alone.

• 1:30:42Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:30:42Speaker 02

  And he was laughing. He had humor. He had humor.

• 1:30:46Danny Jones?

  He had chutzpah.

• 1:30:47Speaker 02

  Oh, he had mega chutzpah. Then I found out when I investigated that he was a Mossad agent. He worked for five.

• 1:30:58Danny Jones?

  You learned this after he died?

• 1:30:59Speaker 02

  After he died.

• 1:31:00Danny Jones?

  After he died.

• 1:31:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. He worked as an official agent in a way. And of five intelligence agencies, the Mossad. MI6.

• 1:31:17Speaker 02

  CIA, KGB, the biggest one. And the German intelligence.

• 1:31:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:31:25Speaker 02

  Yes. Now, none of them knew of each other. None of them, except later on, much later, I found that Mossad knew what he was playing. And they used him to send false information to the other agencies. Because he became a tool.

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  He was so good at what he was doing, it's beyond, because he was a charmer. He was, he could charm your pants off. I mean, it's beyond, beyond.

• 1:32:02Danny Jones?

  That's very interesting because that's what a lot of people say about Jeffrey Epstein as well.

• 1:32:05Speaker 02

  And they met, they were match for heaven.

• 1:32:11Speaker 02

  They both became

• 1:32:14Speaker 02

  the most sophisticated money launderers at the time. For individuals who needed to hide money from ex-wives, from tax, tax, from tax authorities, from anything.

• 1:32:31Speaker 02

  They laundered money for African leaders, for European leaders, for, from businesses on Wall Street. Anybody who had, the rule of some was you needed to hire to launder 50 million and up. They wouldn't take cases more than 50 million. And people were lining up for them to do it. How did Epstein lure a lot of those people before the money situation? With girls. He trafficked girls for them. And you know, if you look back, there were all the people that we know, that I know, that were clients of his.

• 1:33:14Speaker 02

  The all older, famous, very famous people.

• 1:33:20Speaker 02

  Who, well, if their life depend on it, they couldn't go to bed with a young girl. Because no young girl will go to bed with them.

• 1:33:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:33:28Speaker 02

  But Epstein made it happen. So that was an incentive, an additional incentive for them to meet with Epstein. That's how he lured them in with the girls and then he took their money.

• 1:33:41Danny Jones?

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• 1:34:23Danny Jones?

  And I love knowing that their product is tested way beyond the usual industry standard. That's the Momentus standard, improving the creatine itself, not just dressing up the packaging. If you want to try Momentus Signature Spec Creatine, head on over to livemomentous.com and use the code Danny for up to 35% off your entire first order. That's spelled L I V E M O M E N T O U S dot com. Promo code Danny for up to 35% off. Livemomentous.com promo code Danny. How did Epstein and Maxwell, Robert Maxwell, meet?

• 1:35:01Speaker 02

  I, I'm not sure, but I think that Ghislaine was the one who introduced, Ghislaine went to New York and for visits. And she, she was, she liked parties, discotheques and so on. She met him and Trump one evening in one of those.

• 1:35:25Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:35:26Speaker 02

  That early. And he realized who she is and who her father is. I'm talking about Epstein.

• 1:35:33Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:35:33Speaker 02

  And he started courting, courting, courting her. Now, she was too old for him, but he gave the intention, he gave her the idea that he maybe wants to marry her.

• 1:35:49Speaker 02

  And she fell for it.

• 1:35:52Speaker 02

  She really fell for it. And then it really became much stronger after her father died. She needed like a father type, somebody to, to, to replace her father. So that relationship grew during all those events. And that's where Trump was on the scene also. So those were the days of the big parties with girls and the big money laundering days. And all of them were involved in it. And I say no more.

• 1:36:29Danny Jones?

  So I have so many, so many questions bouncing around in my head right now.

• 1:36:33Speaker 02

  I'm sure.

• 1:36:36Danny Jones?

  So what was your official conclusion of, did you already say this of how Robert was killed?

• 1:36:41Speaker 02

  Oh, no. I know how he was killed because I, I know how he was, I know who killed him.

• 1:36:47Danny Jones?

  I'm assuming it was the Mossad.

• 1:36:49Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah, he was killed because he did an operation.

• 1:36:56Speaker 02

  Well, I said it in a book, so I can talk about it now.

• 1:37:03Speaker 02

  The Russian regime, the Communist Party realized at one point that their days are numbered. The Russian, Russia, the communism will not succeed. Gorbachev will come, was rising and so on. And they made a decision, the Russian Communist Party at the time, which was headed by the KGB in a way. We need to make sure that if we need to go and disappear for a while and go into exile and leave Russia. We were forced by the public to leave Russia. We need to have enough funding one day to come back.

• 1:37:44Speaker 02

  Because they looked historically, any leader who left the country because he was forced to leave, never could come back because they never had enough money to come back.

• 1:37:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  The Shah of Iran couldn't come back because he lost his money and fortune and so on. And they saw that. They decided they're going to move the entire gold treasure of Russia and place it somewhere offshore. Somewhere in the world for them to use to come back later on. They need, wow, you're not talking about some little suitcase. You're talking about boats and boats and planes full of gold that needed to be placed somewhere. There's no banks that will take that kind of a gold, that they have no facilities to hold it. It's bigger than Fort Knox.

• 1:38:35Speaker 02

  Russia had trillions and trillions and trillions of that worth of gold. It was known, it was, the United Nations every, every year did statistics about gold of every country and they were number one always.

• 1:38:51Speaker 02

  Where do they, who is going to move it out and where they're going to put it?

• 1:38:56Speaker 02

  Maxwell, he is the guy who's gonna help them. They made a decision because he was so close to them. And he was one of them. He was one of the spies, Russian spy. He came and said, of course, I can help you guys. You allow me, I will find a place to keep it.

• 1:39:17Speaker 02

  And the best place to keep it in Israel. Israel is a nuclear country, nobody will come and take it from them. Most of the members of the Knesset Israeli Parliament Israeli thing originally came from Poland and Russia. And you guys, Russia, you have a collateral that you keep. You have the Jewish population in Russia that wants to immigrate to Israel. You have them hostage, you don't let them go. As long as you keep those Jews in Russia. You have a good, you have a good bargaining point with Israel to get your gold back. Israel will never, they'll have to give it back to you.

• 1:40:02Speaker 02

  So for seven or eight months, boats for going from Odessa to Haifa was moving this gold to Israel. And it was placed in a place in Israel that is secure.

• 1:40:17Speaker 02

  And what he did wrong, he was so desperate, Maxwell. Using his boats, using, he hired the boats, he hired the planes that took it. I interviewed the captains of all, I mean, I did.

• 1:40:32Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:40:33Speaker 02

  I did, I have the whole investigation. I knew when the dates, the times and so on, I had it. And he couldn't resist because he was so desperate to money. He started dipping into the shipments. The boat would stop during the move from Odessa to Tel Aviv in the Mediterranean, they would stop. Another boat would come in, he would unload some gold and take it for himself. And then he starts selling the gold in Switzerland to banks and financial institution. And at the time when he did that, the gold prices went down dramatically. Cause the market was flooded with gold.

• 1:41:14Speaker 02

  And I documented all of it, the dates and time and so on, that you can see exactly when. And now the gold was there, it was safe and so on. And the Berlin Wall fell. And Communist Party was over, Gorbachev took over. And the day the Berlin Wall fell, all the Jews started immigrating out of Russia. The collateral was gone dramatically. It's, they had no, very few Jews stayed there. So now they're stuck. The new government knew, the new government in Russia knew the gold is in Israel. But we cannot talk about it.

• 1:41:54Speaker 02

  Because we now are asking for major loans from the world's banks, from the IMF, from everybody. And as a collateral for the loans, we're pledging the gold that we don't have.

• 1:42:09Danny Jones?

  Right, it's supposed to be secret.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  Yeah, if they will find out, the banks, they will not loan us money.

• 1:42:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:15Speaker 02

  So they, it was in their interest now to keep the secret. It was Israel's interest to keep the secret that they have the gold. And Epstein, and Maxwell kept his secret because he got money out of it.

• 1:42:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:42:31Speaker 02

  But then he spent that money, he owed more money, he got desperate. And at one point, he joined a party in Morocco. A burster party that was done very famous.

• 1:42:45Danny Jones?

  A what, a birthday party?

• 1:42:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, he orchestrated, he put it together, a burster party for

• 1:42:56Speaker 02

  Hearst.

• 1:42:59Danny Jones?

  Randolph Hearst?

• 1:42:59Speaker 02

  I think Randolph Hearst. And at that party, he invited Elizabeth Taylor as his guest. She attended and they did it in Morocco in a big tent. And everyone has to be dressed like Arab sheiks. And he came in dressed like an Arab sheik. And they're all, and there were belly dances and so on and so forth. And now he's sitting there and getting drunk. As you did in the end very much. And sitting next to him, unbehaved to him, was the head of the Mossad in Morocco, who was invited to the party also.

• 1:43:35Danny Jones?

  And Maxwell was not aware?

• 1:43:37Speaker 02

  No, he didn't know him, he didn't know him, wasn't aware of it. And he started talking to him, he knew that he was an Israeli by the accent. He said, oh, he's Israeli, he said, by the way, I want you to know, Israel is now the richest country in the world. I made Israel the richest country in the world. And the guy said, he didn't know about it, the head of Mossad didn't know it. And head of Mossad in Morocco, that's just the Morocco attitude.

• 1:44:01Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:44:02Speaker 02

  So when he went home that night, he called Israel and said, listen, this guy is saying that the Russian gold, he made Israel rich. It's in Israel, Israel's alarm went up. This guy's blubbering now, uncontrollable, he's drunk, he's saying things.

• 1:44:24Speaker 02

  And the rest is history.

• 1:44:28Danny Jones?

  That's fucking crazy.

• 1:44:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, I can say all of it because in my book that was published, my book is Max. It was published, was became a bestseller and.

• 1:44:40Danny Jones?

  And they, is that gold still in Israel today?

• 1:44:46Speaker 02

  I don't know, maybe.

• 1:44:51Danny Jones?

  Let's pause, I have to go to the bathroom.

• 1:44:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:44:54Danny Jones?

  And I gotta think through this, this is, this is in so much information. All right, uh, I'm gonna go to the bathroom, we'll be right back. Correction, the birthday party that you went to was not William Randolph Hearst, it was Malcolm Forbes's birthday party.

• 1:45:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:07Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:09Danny Jones?

  Um, who was the creator of Forbes magazine, I'm assuming.

• 1:45:12Speaker 02

  Of course, yes.

• 1:45:13Danny Jones?

  Right, so at any point, did you ever rub shoulders with or meet Epstein?

• 1:45:20Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:45:21Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:45:22Speaker 02

  I met him once or twice for a long period, for dinner. And then I met, and then I met with him several times, just on the street or saw him, hey, how are you and so on? Yeah, no, we were never friends or I never, I wasn't considering him a friend.

• 1:45:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:40Speaker 02

  I'd say that.

• 1:45:41Danny Jones?

  What was like the context with you met, when you met him for a dinner? Was it just like a, like a big dinner party or something?

• 1:45:47Speaker 02

  No, but he wanted to know about, see, he knew about, he heard about me being an investigator for asset search and recovery and how successful I am piercing through all kind of vehicles that people use to hide money offshore. So he was fascinated by it. And he wanted to ask me question about, what do you mean? How do you do your work? When I said, eh, you know, I jokingly, I said, you have to hire me.

• 1:46:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:17Speaker 02

  Then you, then I'll tell you how I do my work, jokingly, which I never do. Cause I knew that he was a money launderer.

• 1:46:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:46:24Speaker 02

  So I didn't, I didn't, I didn't even fall into it. So he initiated the lunch, the meeting in New York.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  And I shouldn't, I don't know, I should say that. You know, he was a teacher.

• 1:46:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:39Speaker 02

  At, uh.

• 1:46:40Danny Jones?

  Dalton?

• 1:46:41Speaker 02

  At Dalton. My daughter went to Dalton.

• 1:46:43Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:46:43Speaker 02

  And she was a student at the time when he was there. Thank God he didn't.

• 1:46:48Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:46:49Speaker 02

  Thank God for him, otherwise I would kill him.

• 1:46:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:51Speaker 02

  Never mind, somebody else killed him, but I would kill him.

• 1:46:54Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:46:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, so it's small world, small world.

• 1:46:59Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 1:47:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:01Danny Jones?

  Um, okay, so there's been lots of people who have reported.

• 1:47:06Danny Jones?

  In particular, people who've worked for Epstein.

• 1:47:10Danny Jones?

  Who have reported, specifically, there's one case in the investigative podcast that Tara Palmeri did on Epstein where she interviewed, I believe it was a chef who worked in his Manhattan house.

• 1:47:24Speaker 02

  Yes, known, yes.

• 1:47:26Danny Jones?

  And she interviewed him and he was talking about, you know, like Jeffrey was always rich. He was always, you know, had millions of dollars. But in the nineties, early nineties, he became mega rich.

• 1:47:40Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:47:40Danny Jones?

  Where it went from like hundreds of millions to billions.

• 1:47:43Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 1:47:45Danny Jones?

  And it seemed to lines up. It seems to line up with, with the death of Robert Maxwell.

• 1:47:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:47:51Danny Jones?

  So the speculation is, did Epstein get a bunch of money from Robert Maxwell when he died?

• 1:47:56Speaker 02

  Not only, not only from him, but both of them generated more from other people that Maxwell introduced. See, Maxwell was connected in Europe. Ghislaine was a celebrity in Europe. That's how she brought in the King of England's brother into the picture and so on. She was involved with all those guys and Epstein needed more famous people to be associated with. So he can say, well, you know, I make money, I'm, I'm, I'm rich. He, he, Trump adopted the same story that he was doing. I'm rich, I have money, I don't need anybody's money, I can finance my own stuff and finance everything.

• 1:48:42Speaker 02

  I don't need anybody's money.

• 1:48:46Speaker 02

  When he was a teacher at Dalton, he didn't have money. He didn't have, he didn't come from money, he didn't have money. He had decent money, he wasn't poor, but he didn't have millions of dollars. He suddenly become a millionaire when Galen and Maxwell became, came into his life.

• 1:49:09Danny Jones?

  Right. And so, how did he, did he get connected to the Rothschilds through Maxwell?

• 1:49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, to all those people in Europe. See, if you, if you, if you go, if you go into the history of Maxwell, he operated, he had a, he had the same type of operation that Epstein had in America, he had in Hungary, he had in Bulgaria, he had, because his parents came from Hungary and Bulgaria and this is where he came from originally. So during the war, so he became a celebrity, and you know, he was a member of the parliament in England.

• 1:49:58Danny Jones?

  Who? Maxwell, okay, yeah, yeah, right.

• 1:50:01Speaker 02

  So he had all those contacts that Epstein didn't have. That's why they needed both, and Maxwell needed Epstein because Epstein knew how to hide money. He learned it. Now, how did Epstein learn how to hide money? This is really by finding, my biggest coup during the investigation. There are three, there were three lawyers in this country who became the most famous, notorious asset protection lawyers. There is a legal term, asset protection.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  You want to protect your assets from potential lawsuits, from potential whatever. So they became a person that you come in, you give them your money, they develop a vehicle, legal vehicle to hide, hide the money, open the bank accounts offshore, wherever they developed this place, and then hand you a turnkey. That's it. Here, this is the account, we opened it to you, the money is in it, you own your own kid now. What they didn't tell those individuals that they hired the money for them, that they made

• 1:51:28Speaker 02

  arrangements with the banks that they hid the money in, that they get a commission from the bank for bringing those big deposits. So they got from the bank 7% of all the monies that they brought in to the bank as a finder fee, plus they got 10% from you for hiding your money.

• 1:51:55Danny Jones?

  Oh wow, they're skimming from both sides.

• 1:51:57Speaker 02

  Yes. They became trillionaires. One, the most notorious of them was in Denver, Colorado. There was one in Oklahoma City, and one in Florida. The top guy was the guy in Colorado, and I befriended him.

• 1:52:17Danny Jones?

  Do we know his name?

• 1:52:18Speaker 02

  Of course, I was a friend of it.

• 1:52:20Danny Jones?

  Can we say it?

• 1:52:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, Barry Engel. Barry Engel was the, he's dead now. He died a few years ago. Barry Engel was, wrote books about asset protection. The government, the Treasury, the IRS were after him for years to find out who are the names of the people that he helped hiding money for and so on. He wrote the constitution of the, wow, one of the islands, hold on, Cook Island.

• 1:52:57Danny Jones?

  Cook?

• 1:52:58Speaker 02

  Cook Island. Cook Island is a place where people hide money. That is known. It's a small place, there's no banks there, there's no nothing, there's an old lady sitting with a laptop on a beach, and she is the bank, and you have to go through her to find where the money is.

• 1:53:13Danny Jones?

  Where is this island on a map?

• 1:53:16Speaker 02

  Cook Island is...

• 1:53:17Danny Jones?

  This one? French Polynesia?

• 1:53:20Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:53:23Danny Jones?

  Cook Islands?

• 1:53:24Speaker 03

  That's like in the middle of...

• 1:53:25Danny Jones?

  Halfway between Australia and South America?

• 1:53:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:53:28Speaker 03

  It's like on the dividing line to the Pacific.

• 1:53:30Speaker 02

  It's in the Pacific.

• 1:53:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:53:32Speaker 02

  Cook Island.

• 1:53:33Danny Jones?

  Got it. Somewhere near Tahiti.

• 1:53:36Speaker 02

  Yeah. So he wrote their constitution, and he designed it in such a way that he knew exactly how to hide money. Now, the vehicle that he created to hide the money was in the Cook Island. The banks were not there. The money wasn't there. The money was in Switzerland, in two banks, that he had the relationship that he can get the kickback. So there's another layer of security. You had to go through the old lady on the beach in Cook Island to find out the name of the account and where the account is. And that, but you couldn't. And then, you had to go to Switzerland and pierce through all the Swiss laws, protection laws of banking laws in Switzerland.

• 1:54:20Speaker 02

  So those were impossible to do. You needed to do, to know, which I found out later, how to do it. So I was the king. Why was I so famous for asset search and recovery? Because I had a method. Everyone who wanted to hide money over 10, 50, 20, 50 million dollars, ended with one of those three people who hide money, asset protection money, those lawyers. The word of the money, you have money, you want to hide money, go to Barry Engel in Colorado, he'll hide your money, hide your money.

• 1:55:04Speaker 02

  And he claimed that it was done legitimately, that's why the IRS couldn't go after him, ever. He said, "I will open an account for you, and you put, the first money you put into the account is money that you earned and you paid taxes on." In other words, it's money that you pay taxes, legitimate money, that will open the account. What you put into the account later, in a different ways, is between you and the bank. What he never told the people, that even after they left him, after they got the arrangement,

• 1:55:49Speaker 02

  they got the key to the account, and they left, they thought that he's not involved anymore. He told them, "I'm not involved, I opened a small account with legitimate money, IRS money, and that's it." He still, he was still getting kickbacks from the bank, from all the monies that they put in after it also. That was the whole thing.

• 1:56:13Danny Jones?

  Even though he wasn't liable for it anymore?

• 1:56:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. So I became a very close friend of Barry Engel. We became friends, we went to dinners, we were having, because I said to him, "Barry, let's make a deal. You tell me, don't tell me where the money is, just tell me names of people that you hide money, and I will check and see if they owe money to somebody," which I, she was like, "Yeah." And then, I know where, where to find the money, because I know where your two banks are, and he was laughing, ha, ha, ha. It never, he never gave me, never divulged anything. He's a lawyer, he's smart, but we were all laughing about, and you know, he wrote books about it. He was famous, he was very famous.

• 1:56:52Danny Jones?

  Barry Engel.

• 1:56:55Speaker 02

  Barry Engel in Colorado. Then, I found out that Epstein met Barry Engel. And then I knew right away how the money was hiding, how he hid money and so on, because Barry was the vendor who did it for Epstein, and taught Epstein how to hide the money in, through the, through the Cook Island.

• 1:57:27Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:57:29Speaker 02

  Okay? So, how did I become famous? What I used to do without getting Barry involved. I befriended his secretary. I became so close to his secretary. She's an old lady from Brooklyn who worked for him in Colorado, and he treated her like shit, and she hated him, but she needed the job and so on. So we became friends. So I had a deal with her. Anytime a new client came to me and said, "You know, Danny stole money from me, and I need you to collect." I would take Danny's name, I would call the secretary and say, "Did this guy came to

• 1:58:14Speaker 02

  see Barry? Is he a client of Barry? If she comes, she calls a computer, she comes back and say, 'Yeah, he's our client, I know where the money is.'" The only two banks, and so, yeah. If she said no, then I had to start working harder and look for them. So that became a ritual and a funny thing in the office, that we called Barry's secretary to find out, before we take the client on, just to see if he, if he is a client of Barry.

• 1:58:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:58:44Speaker 02

  So Epstein became very close to Barry, and learned from Barry, the Cook Island vehicle and some other vehicles that I knew about and so on. That's how he started really hiding big money. Russian oligarchs' monies, famous people's money, because he did such a good job, nobody could trace it. Nobody could trace it. Except the cases that I took on and found out.

• 1:59:17Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:59:20Speaker 02

  And collected. Barry didn't care that I collected money on a client because he got paid already and he got money from the bank coming in. So you won't go get the money.

• 1:59:34Speaker 02

  And I used to appear in banks, in those banks in Switzerland and they'd be like, oh, you again. Oh, my God. Every time you walk into this bank, we lose their deposit because I have all the paperwork. I have all the direct. I know how it was done.

• 1:59:46Danny Jones?

  So let me ask you this. It seems, you know, you've laid out kind of like the, the early genesis of Epstein, his connection, connection with Maxwell, how he started making his money, some of the financial connections he had and how he was hiding money. That all makes sense. At what point does he start actively getting blackmail on people? And why is he getting blackmail? What?

• 2:00:13Speaker 02

  From day one.

• 2:00:14Danny Jones?

  From day one?

• 2:00:15Speaker 02

  He was always afraid that he's gonna lose Maxwell. He would lose some other big clients. He needed to make sure that he has on his own developed a vehicle to keep the client.

• 2:00:27Danny Jones?

  And you believe he was doing this for his own purposes?

• 2:00:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:29Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:00:30Speaker 02

  Yes. Well, eventually he bragged about it. So Mossad used it. Mossad wanted to have black money, black made material on people that he developed, that he gave them on those people.

• 2:00:45Danny Jones?

  He willingly just shared it with them?

• 2:00:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:49Danny Jones?

  What about CIA?

• 2:00:52Speaker 02

  I don't know of it. I don't think so because it was too close to him in, in America. He didn't want to deal with American government. He was afraid of it. He was afraid that they will, you know, I'll be, I won't be surprised if you would come to me and say, you know, there's some evidence that he did some stuff with the CIA. Maybe. I'm always open minded to those type of things because I know the players. They're all doomed to do things, but I don't know of.

• 2:01:25Danny Jones?

  Well, and the, the reason I ask is because in, obviously I'm sure you're aware in the early, in the early 2000s, when he first got busted for soliciting underage prostitutes or whatever. Alex Acosta came out and said that he was told Epstein belonged to intelligence. And that's allegedly how he got his sweetheart deal that first time around where he got the slap on the wrist and he was able to basically go in at night, leave all day and all that stuff. So, so if he was working for Mossad, how the hell would Alex Acosta? And who would tell Alex Acosta he belonged to intelligence? And why would Alex Acosta know anything about a Mossad connection?

• 2:02:02Speaker 02

  No, I'm, I'm sure that, I'm sure that every intelligence agency looked at him as a potential. If they can recruit him, if they can bring him in, he has information that they could use to blackmail other people. And I'm sure that the CIA, I'm giving, listen, they're not stupid people. They're not all stupid people. Some of them are. But I'm just saying CIA does, did their homework and they saw a potential here. And they saw maybe we should get close to him and see what we can get from him and maybe put some screws on him and just don't go, don't try to hurt his business, but just do a deal

• 2:02:47Speaker 02

  with him and get some information from him on certain people that we are interested in.

• 2:02:52Danny Jones?

  Or maybe he offered that up as a bargaining chip.

• 2:02:53Speaker 02

  And maybe he offered it up. He saw how it worked with Israel. He said, oh, yeah, I'll give you that. He got a deal for sure. And the only, he didn't, Israel didn't influence anybody in the courts in Miami.

• 2:03:07Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly. Exactly.

• 2:03:08Speaker 02

  It had to be a local agency that, somebody in this government that made the phone call and said, let him go.

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• 2:04:17Speaker 02

  Period. That's, that's obvious. I don't know who, who did it, but I'm just saying to you, it had to be.

• 2:04:24Danny Jones?

  And then why did Trump hire Acosta as his labor secretary the first time?

• 2:04:27Speaker 02

  Well, why did he hire anybody who is around him right now?

• 2:04:31Danny Jones?

  How the hell is Howard Lutnick still in every single photo with Donald Trump today after he's like blatantly been caught lying about who was Epstein's neighbor for years?

• 2:04:41Speaker 02

  I don't know.

• 2:04:42Danny Jones?

  Next door neighbor.

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  Please, yes. And the story, I went with my wife. I saw the bed, the massage bed, and I decided, no.

• 2:04:48Danny Jones?

  Never.

• 2:04:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. You never.

• 2:04:52Danny Jones?

  And he's all over the files.

• 2:04:53Speaker 02

  I'm not gonna say anything right now.

• 2:04:55Danny Jones?

  How the hell?

• 2:04:56Speaker 02

  But one day I will talk about it, about him.

• 2:05:00Danny Jones?

  About Lutnick?

• 2:05:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Not right now.

• 2:05:05Danny Jones?

  Seems like a very bad man.

• 2:05:06Speaker 02

  Absolutely. Absolutely.

• 2:05:11Danny Jones?

  And, you know, there's lots of witness testimonies too.

• 2:05:15Speaker 02

  Oh, you know, what I can tell you, which will be a bombshell very soon. Some of the girls that gave up on the hope that there will be justice done. They know who they went to bed with. They know who messed with them. They know. They have put together a list of all those people, date, time, and pictures because they took it from Epstein that was filming. Anytime somebody, one of those guys, those stupid people came into Epstein's apartment to have sex with one of those girls, he was filming it.

• 2:05:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there's literally photos of the cameras in the rooms.

• 2:05:59Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. Every room had a camera and so on and so forth. Those people felt for, didn't, didn't realize, didn't care. Who knows? They cared or didn't care. They were so blinded by the girls. So I lost my thought.

• 2:06:15Danny Jones?

  The girls are putting together a list?

• 2:06:16Speaker 02

  The girls have put a list with pictures and everything. And there will be a press conference. The timing is coming close.

• 2:06:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:27Speaker 02

  But they're gonna be willing to get up and say, Mr. Jones, Mr. Adam, he messed with me. Here's a picture.

• 2:06:37Danny Jones?

  How did they get pictures?

• 2:06:39Speaker 02

  They took it from Epstein.

• 2:06:41Danny Jones?

  How?

• 2:06:42Speaker 02

  I don't know. I don't know. Somebody cooperated in the house. They got too, they got smart later on. And the day before they left, they got some pictures. I don't know how they got it.

• 2:06:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:06:57Speaker 02

  So the lawyers have it, their lawyers have it, the girls have it. They have all that, but the timing is not right yet according to them. They're looking for the right timing. That will tackle the government. That will be the end of this government. And people all over the world are gonna go in, in hiding because they're all gonna be sued. They're all gonna be, they're evidence and testimony of time, date, and what was done to them by those people.

• 2:07:34Danny Jones?

  So we saw this release of, starting in December, on like a Friday afternoon in December, when they first dumped the first tranche of Epstein files out. And then like immediately after Trump did the Venezuela operation.

• 2:07:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:50Danny Jones?

  And then I believe in January, the second tranche of files came out. And then we immediately launched the Iran war.

• 2:07:57Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:07:58Danny Jones?

  And

• 2:07:59Speaker 02

  There's nothing, no more wars to announce right now for the next tranche. Next tranche are done. They're gone. They're all gone.

• 2:08:07Danny Jones?

  What's all gone?

• 2:08:08Speaker 02

  Absolutely. All those government leaders that have been surviving this secret so far and so on, they're all gonna be gone.

• 2:08:17Danny Jones?

  So that evidence, you know, we got a bunch of emails and stuff, and there was lots of redactions. They said they were going, only gonna redact the victims, but they redacted way more than just the victims. They redacted like big names of like sheiks and oil executives and all.

• 2:08:34Speaker 02

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 2:08:36Danny Jones?

  It's very interesting, the people that they didn't redact and the people they did redact. If you really like read between the lines and look at it, but.

• 2:08:40Speaker 02

  Of course.

• 2:08:43Danny Jones?

  Like, that's not the real evidence. The real evidence is on the hard drives because there's, there's survivors, there's girls that were there that testified that he had rooms as big as this room right now that were filled with servers and computers and monitors that were recording all that footage that he had, not only in, on the island, but in New York, Zora Ranch.

• 2:09:01Speaker 02

  Everywhere.

• 2:09:02Danny Jones?

  Everywhere.

• 2:09:02Speaker 02

  On a plane. The plane was rigged and everything.

• 2:09:06Danny Jones?

  Where's all that footage?

• 2:09:11Speaker 02

  I can't tell you.

• 2:09:11Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:09:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:15Danny Jones?

  Can I guess?

• 2:09:16Speaker 02

  No, please don't.

• 2:09:19Speaker 02

  Not now.

• 2:09:22Speaker 02

  Don't guess now. So. That's why I said the days.

• 2:09:28Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this.

• 2:09:29Speaker 02

  The day, the day, the day it will come out is important. It has to be the right time, the right day.

• 2:09:36Danny Jones?

  Let me ask you this. I'm sorry to put a legendary Mossad assassin on the hot seat.

• 2:09:45Danny Jones?

  But if I was to guess, do you think I would guess right?

• 2:09:50Speaker 02

  Probably. That's why we shouldn't talk about it right now.

• 2:09:52Danny Jones?

  All right.

• 2:09:54Danny Jones?

  That's all I needed to know.

• 2:09:57Danny Jones?

  Do you think it's possible Epstein is still alive?

• 2:10:00Speaker 02

  No, I can assure you he's not.

• 2:10:04Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:10:04Danny Jones?

  You can assure me he's not?

• 2:10:06Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:07Danny Jones?

  What makes you believe that he's dead? Other than the fact, because there's lots of people that poke holes and.

• 2:10:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, they can say whatever they, he's dead. There was a body, there was an autopsy of credible people. He's dead. I know where he's buried and, and, and he's buried. And.

• 2:10:26Speaker 02

  Again, it goes into the same question of what happened to the information that was stored on the computers and where is it now? So it's the same type of question. How do you know he's dead? I'm telling you, he's dead. Period.

• 2:10:44Danny Jones?

  And you know for an absolute fact that he's dead?

• 2:10:46Speaker 02

  Absolute fact he's dead.

• 2:10:48Danny Jones?

  How do you think he died?

• 2:10:50Speaker 02

  Oh, he was killed.

• 2:10:53Speaker 02

  Yes, I can tell you, he was killed. It was arranged for somebody from the outside to go into his cell and kill him.

• 2:11:04Danny Jones?

  Why wouldn't they just have that big jacked gorilla guy who like was a cop killer?

• 2:11:09Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:11:10Danny Jones?

  Kill him?

• 2:11:10Speaker 02

  No, no, because he, he wouldn't do it.

• 2:11:15Speaker 02

  He wouldn't do it.

• 2:11:17Speaker 02

  He wouldn't do it. And they didn't, they needed it be done professionally. Need to be done professionally by somebody who is a professional assassin to come in, do it and get away and that's it. And that person doesn't, is not, doesn't live in America and is not in America anymore.

• 2:11:37Danny Jones?

  You know who that person is?

• 2:11:41Speaker 02

  Maybe.

• 2:11:44Danny Jones?

  You don't think it's possible that there was any way to extract him from that prison through like some secret door?

• 2:11:50Speaker 02

  No, no, no, yeah, the story about those tunnels, those, those doors, secret doors. Now, this is an old building that they kept the notorious mafia people that if there was a secret door, believe me, they would have been whisked out of there by their own people. No, no, no, no, no, no. This is all good stories that the media is seeking and somebody is out there selling it. And, and the rumors are out there. No, this, it's too obvious. The man died.

• 2:12:19Danny Jones?

  So.

• 2:12:20Speaker 02

  They had, he had to die.

• 2:12:22Danny Jones?

  Let me play the devil's advocate with you real quick. If I'm Jeffrey Epstein

• 2:12:29Danny Jones?

  and I'm going through the shit I'm going through throughout the 2000s and up to 2019, fighting all this stuff,

• 2:12:37Danny Jones?

  you know, against the most powerful people in the world who obviously want me dead. I'm gonna have some sort of a dead man switch. Meaning I'm gonna have some sort of situation set up where I have somebody who's disconnected from me on another, on the opposite end of the country, who has access to the blackmail that knows the second you see that I'm dead, you release it and you want to let the people know that are threatening you that that's gonna happen if they kill you.

• 2:13:05Speaker 02

  It's a good.

• 2:13:06Danny Jones?

  Why wouldn't he have that?

• 2:13:07Speaker 02

  Why? Because that's the, that's the biggest question that I have. Stupid Epstein, why didn't you create it? And the answer, my answer to it is, he was so sure that he survived the first attempt of his arrest in Miami, got a slap on the hand. That just, it's a question of days that the powers, wherever they are, including the White House and some other places, that they will make sure that he will, they will find a way to release him and send him out and, and, and give him a probation or whatever, or maybe even pardon him and so on.

• 2:13:48Speaker 02

  There is a rumor, and I stipulate, a rumor that he was promised that he will be pardoned by the president.

• 2:13:56Danny Jones?

  By Trump?

• 2:13:57Speaker 02

  Yeah. And if it's true, it was good enough for him

• 2:14:04Speaker 02

  because he believed that Trump should pardon him and would pardon him, that he doesn't have to do anything, just stay there quiet for another few days and in the cell. And the people who needed to make sure that he is silenced, for sure,

• 2:14:22Speaker 02

  knew about that potential arrangement.

• 2:14:25Danny Jones?

  Between him and Trump.

• 2:14:27Speaker 02

  And said, we have to go and kill him. And that's what happened.

• 2:14:34Danny Jones?

  And then there was the.

• 2:14:35Speaker 02

  There are powers beyond the White House and Trump and then all some other people. There are powers beyond that, that had a lot, have more to lose than.

• 2:14:44Danny Jones?

  Beyond heads of state.

• 2:14:45Speaker 02

  You got it. You got it. And when it all boils down, it goes to the old, old story of follow the money. And it all has to do with money. The power of money, the greed and power of money. The girls are just to occupy the media. The whole, the story is a profanalia with the girls, with a profanalia to occupy and the media loves it. Everybody only talks about the girls, which is a tragedy for the girls. I, I fully, fully

• 2:15:27Speaker 02

  say that again and again, that those girls need to get everything that they deserve to get to make it right of what has happened to them. And no one should get away with what happened to them. But it wasn't Epstein alone. It's so many other powerful people. And they're not worried about the girls. They're worried about the idea that their money laundering operation will be surfacing. And as long as everybody's preoccupied with the girls, nobody's talking about the money. Very seldomly people talk about the money. And that's where the story is. The money.

• 2:16:16Danny Jones?

  What do you make of, there, there's the email that was in the files where Ghislaine emailed Trump, or not Trump, Ghislaine emailed Epstein and she said, Trump is the dog who hasn't barked. Did you see that one?

• 2:16:30Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:16:32Danny Jones?

  What'd you make of that?

• 2:16:34Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, they had a lot of conversations.

• 2:16:41Speaker 02

  Ghislaine wanted to remind Epstein, if you have any power that you claimed you had over Trump, I need a pardon. I need, I need something to happen. And you need to make it happen.

• 2:16:56Danny Jones?

  Ghislaine needs a pardon?

• 2:16:58Speaker 02

  Ghislaine, yeah. Ghislaine is hoping to get a pardon from, for him and, and leave the country.

• 2:17:02Danny Jones?

  At the time that that email was sent, she was still in custody, she was, she wasn't in custody yet, was she?

• 2:17:08Speaker 02

  She was.

• 2:17:09Danny Jones?

  She was?

• 2:17:10Speaker 02

  Of course. Of course. She knows, she, she knew where she's going. She knows she's going to jail for a long time. She knows that. She was smart. She was not stupid. She was a smart woman, very manipulative, smart woman. She knew what the odds were. And she also knew what Epstein had as a blackmail material on all of those guys.

• 2:17:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:17:37Speaker 02

  And she wanted to remind him. And there were other emails where she reminded that he needs to take care of himself and create a.

• 2:17:46Danny Jones?

  So he had that list, right?

• 2:17:47Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:17:47Danny Jones?

  He had the list, like a getaway list in case she hits the fan.

• 2:17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:17:51Danny Jones?

  I forgot about that.

• 2:17:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. She reminded him again and again, make sure that you have the insurance policy prepared for rainy days. I mean, she, she, she, and he purported it because he said that. Yeah. It, it, it happened so many times, so many times that I was going after fraudsters, mega fraudsters who stole billions and billions of dollars. And I met with them and I gave them an offer. You pay the money back

• 2:18:22Speaker 02

  to my client. I have a judgment against you. You pay the money, I let you go and I, nobody needs to know that you made the arrangement and paid it back. If you don't, that will go to the press that we collected against you. The IRS will come in and you know, you start with the IRS, you're in jail for life.

• 2:18:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:18:44Speaker 02

  For tax evasion. So none of them said, you know what? Do I need a problem with the IRS? I'll pay him some money. And I always tell those people, I'm not a pig. I don't need all your money. You owe my client $30 million. Give me 28 million. Write a check of 28 million dollars. I'll leave you $2 million for old age, for legitimate old age and go walk away. None of them said yes, ever.

• 2:19:12Speaker 02

  Ever.

• 2:19:16Danny Jones?

  So what do you think is gonna happen to Ghislaine?

• 2:19:18Speaker 02

  What will happen?

• 2:19:19Danny Jones?

  What do you speculate will happen to her eventually?

• 2:19:21Speaker 02

  I don't want to speculate because if I speculate and it happens, then I knew about it in advance. So I'm not, I'm not gonna talk about it.

• 2:19:31Danny Jones?

  Are you optimistic?

• 2:19:33Speaker 02

  For her?

• 2:19:34Danny Jones?

  For, I mean, it depends what your view is. I don't want to see her go free. I mean, I think she needs to be.

• 2:19:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:19:41Danny Jones?

  I think she needs to rot in jail.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, I agree. That's what I think personally. But what will happen is a different story.

• 2:19:50Danny Jones?

  Why don't you think she's been killed yet?

• 2:19:52Speaker 02

  Good question.

• 2:19:55Speaker 02

  Because there was no need so far. She's not quiet. She's happy playing with little puppies in this special jail and so on. And she really believes that she's gonna be pardoned by Trump. She believes it.

• 2:20:12Speaker 02

  She was promised by the Attorney General to be.

• 2:20:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And then one of the things that we were talking about last night on the topic of Trump was, you know, there was the whole Russiagate fiasco that happened during the 2016 election. Where, um, you know, Trump was accused of colluding with Russia to essentially rig the 2016 election. And then there was the whole, you know, that was all over the media. Everyone was talking about how Trump was colluding with Putin to steal the election. Trump was also campaigning on like a détente with Russia. To actually create a friendship with the number two nuclear power in the world. And not paint them as the enemy anymore. And, um.

• 2:21:01Speaker 02

  Ultra.

• 2:21:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And then there were the whole Mueller report happened and they concluded that there was no conspiracy.

• 2:21:10Speaker 02

  What?

• 2:21:11Danny Jones?

  In the conclusion of that report, they said there's no conspiracy or, or, or actual evidence that this ever happened. And Hillary was behind this.

• 2:21:20Speaker 02

  It's not correct. The Mueller report concluded there was collusion. It's just the opposite of what you just said. That's what the conclusion was. But the Attorney General at the time took the report, never let it come out on time. And said in summary, there was no evidence.

• 2:21:45Speaker 02

  There was plenty of evidence. And if you watch the media right now lately, what, um, uh, the prosecutor, uh, what's his name? Who was in the, uh, Trump is after.

• 2:21:59Danny Jones?

  Comey?

• 2:22:00Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:22:01Danny Jones?

  Not Mueller?

• 2:22:03Speaker 02

  Not Mueller, but, uh.

• 2:22:04Danny Jones?

  I can't remember the name of the prosecutor.

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  The guy who investigated the special prosecutor.

• 2:22:11Danny Jones?

  I can't remember.

• 2:22:13Speaker 02

  The special prosecutor. Recently just in the news.

• 2:22:17Danny Jones?

  Yeah, Steve will find it.

• 2:22:18Speaker 03

  He investigated.

• 2:22:20Danny Jones?

  Who investigated who?

• 2:22:22Speaker 02

  The, the, the Trump, uh, uh, stealing the paperwork and keeping, keeping, uh.

• 2:22:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, the files that he kept.

• 2:22:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:31Danny Jones?

  At Mar-a-Lago.

• 2:22:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:34Speaker 03

  Jack Smith.

• 2:22:35Speaker 02

  Jack Smith. Yeah. How can I forget? He's a friend and I work with him. Okay. So he just said again and again, I have all the evidence that there was a conclusion collusion. I have all the evidence and so on. And I'm waiting for the time to get it into court. And make it public.

• 2:23:01Danny Jones?

  Okay, so I, I was, I was not aware that, so ask AI or ChatGPT or Claude or something, ask it, what was the official conclusion of the Mueller report? On Russiagate?

• 2:23:19Danny Jones?

  Cause I could have sworn that it was, the actual conclusion of it was there was no conspiracy.

• 2:23:25Speaker 02

  I have the Mueller report. No.

• 2:23:30Danny Jones?

  Cause there was a whole story that came out. I think Matt Taibbi was one of the big people, journalists behind this. That Hillary Clinton had hired somebody to go out and.

• 2:23:40Speaker 02

  There were rumors, there were a lot of stories. Hillary had nothing to do with it at the time. It was too late by the time she woke up and realized that she lost it. Lost the election. It was too late to do anything, anything. And she couldn't go and, and, and say anything. To change the election at the time and, and make Trump look bad and so, no, no. You know, what's right is right. What's wrong is wrong.

• 2:24:09Danny Jones?

  Well, I want to see, I want, I want to see what you came up with on this ChatGPT, Steve. Do you get it?

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  Okay, so this is, this is what I got.

• 2:24:21Danny Jones?

  The Mueller report concluded that investigators did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with Russia, the Russian government 2016 election interference activities. However, the report explicitly stated it did not exonerate the president, particularly concerning allegations of obstruction of justice. So the obstruction of justice is the, is the files that he kept at Mar-a-Lago?

• 2:24:43Speaker 02

  Yes. Not only that, no, but you see what it, what it says. Officially, the investigation by the Trump Organization didn't show that they have done, they did their own investigation, of course, and found that they had, there was no collusion. It was not the official investigation that found that there was no, that there was no collusion between

• 2:25:12Speaker 02

  Russia and, and, um, and Trump.

• 2:25:18Danny Jones?

  Is the Mueller report not the official, official investigation?

• 2:25:22Speaker 02

  Yes, but it's not the one that you are looking in it here.

• 2:25:25Danny Jones?

  It's, it's at the top, doesn't it reference the Mueller report?

• 2:25:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, but.

• 2:25:30Danny Jones?

  It concluded.

• 2:25:31Speaker 02

  Not, no, no, no, no, no. It can, read carefully what you, what, what it says.

• 2:25:37Danny Jones?

  New York Times, go back, Steve. What's the New York Times article say? Up, up, up, up, up, up, up, up, nope, right there. Mueller finds no Trump Russia conspiracy. But click on that, see what it says.

• 2:25:48Speaker 02

  But?

• 2:25:50Danny Jones?

  But stops short of exonerating the president on obstruction.

• 2:25:53Speaker 02

  Here we go.

• 2:25:53Danny Jones?

  What is the obstruction story?

• 2:25:55Speaker 02

  The obstruction is collusion with Russia on the.

• 2:25:59Danny Jones?

  Find out, ask it exactly what it's referring to by the obstruction.

• 2:26:04Danny Jones?

  Mueller did not reach a prosecutorial conclusion on whether Trump obstructed justice because the Justice Department policy said a sitting president could not be indicted. Mueller declined to make the ordinary charge or decline decision. The report said.

• 2:26:22Speaker 02

  Read it right. Read it right. What I'm trying to tell you is he couldn't come out with the right conclusion because he couldn't charge him because the laws wouldn't allow him to charge a sitting president. But it doesn't mean, I have the, I have the, I have the documents.

• 2:26:44Danny Jones?

  The exact, it says, the exact conclusion was that the report did not conclude Trump committed a crime.

• 2:26:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:26:52Danny Jones?

  But it did not officially exonerate him either. So there's no evidence that he stole the election with Russia.

• 2:26:59Speaker 02

  There's no evidence also that he didn't do it. Because then they could not continue the investigation and publish it because they couldn't use it against a sitting president. That was the issue.

• 2:27:15Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:27:15Speaker 02

  And if you talk about, if you go to, uh, um,

• 2:27:23Speaker 02

  what's his name again, just now?

• 2:27:26Danny Jones?

  The prosecutor?

• 2:27:27Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:27Danny Jones?

  Uh, Smith?

• 2:27:28Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you go to Smith's statement just a few days ago.

• 2:27:33Speaker 02

  He came out and said, I have all the evidence of the conclusion of the, of Trump's collusion with Russia. That was based on the Mueller report.

• 2:27:46Danny Jones?

  Can you find that?

• 2:27:47Speaker 02

  He took over the Mueller report and took it further.

• 2:27:51Danny Jones?

  What's the, what's the story with the Smith guy? What's his deal?

• 2:27:55Speaker 02

  Oh, Trump fired him, fired him and accused him of, of, uh, whatever. That he's gonna sue him because of his lawsuit, because of the situation with the Mar-a-Lago paperwork and so on. So he is standing by right now. But he has all the evidence. He's stated, he's now coming out again and again, I have all the evidence.

• 2:28:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:28:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 2:28:18Danny Jones?

  But I might, I mean, it's just hard to trust people like that.

• 2:28:21Speaker 02

  No, no, no, no, no.

• 2:28:23Danny Jones?

  They all have vendettas against each other.

• 2:28:25Speaker 02

  Not him.

• 2:28:26Danny Jones?

  This is a good guy, huh? This is one of the good guys.

• 2:28:30Speaker 02

  Who hired him? It's a Trump and the Trump Attorney General hired him.

• 2:28:39Danny Jones?

  Did you find the statement?

• 2:28:40Speaker 02

  He was brought in from Europe. He, you know, he was the top prosecutor at, at the Hague. I mean, this, this guy is a legend. Legend in.

• 2:28:50Danny Jones?

  What's his first name again? Smith, last name?

• 2:28:53Speaker 03

  Jack Smith.

• 2:28:53Danny Jones?

  Jack Smith, Jack Smith, okay.

• 2:28:58Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:28:58Speaker 02

  You go and study Jack Smith.

• 2:29:00Danny Jones?

  So you do believe that he did some sort of a deal with Russia to steal the election?

• 2:29:06Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:29:08Speaker 02

  Russia told him, you run, you run to become a president, we will make sure that you will be the president. And, you know, they, for them, it was just a, a situation, as I told you last night, every intelligence agency, at the KGB, almost, they all dream to groom somebody in enemy country that would one day be high enough in the government, that have access to secrets and so on, that they can then have. No one in their life thought that they can develop a president of the country as a, as

• 2:29:53Speaker 02

  a source.

• 2:29:56Speaker 02

  And what did it cost them? Just money and, and support. And it worked, worked for Putin. Study just the relationship between Trump and Putin.

• 2:30:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, how did that relationship start?

• 2:30:12Speaker 02

  It started when Trump was bankrupt, he needed money, and he went to Russia, met with Putin, and asked Putin to loan him money. And Putin did loan him a few hundred billion dollars to start with.

• 2:30:29Danny Jones?

  When is this published? July 16th, so like three days ago, four days ago. Jim Jordan says the House, says House weighing criminal referral of Jack Smith for allegedly lying to Congress.

• 2:30:40Speaker 02

  Oh, but Jordan, thank you. Please.

• 2:30:44Speaker 03

  I couldn't find what he said, but I did find this.

• 2:30:46Danny Jones?

  Republicans allege Smith lied under oath about obtaining texts from 44 lawmakers during Trump probe. Scroll down to the first paragraph. What is this publication you're on? This is Fox News.

• 2:30:59Speaker 02

  It's Fox News and Jordan is saying it.

• 2:31:01Danny Jones?

  This is Fox News, yeah, you can't really trust it.

• 2:31:02Speaker 03

  I have this one from Chuck Grassley, whoever that is, same thing.

• 2:31:07Danny Jones?

  Jack Smith's investigative team secretly obtained text messages from 44 members of Congress amid Trump probe. Members on both sides of the aisle were swept up in a special counsel investigation as Smith's team broke investigative protoc, broke investigative protocol, raising constitutional concerns.

• 2:31:29Danny Jones?

  Okay, they, they obtained and reviewed text messages from 44 members of Congress as part of the Biden DOJ criminal investigation into Trump. Evidence shows the investigators bypassed the required filter, uh, team review process, violating investigative protocols and potentially infringing on constitutional guardrails.

• 2:31:53Speaker 02

  Well, they had to do what they had to do to get the information, I mean.

• 2:31:58Speaker 02

  But they successfully got it. That's why they went after them.

• 2:32:04Danny Jones?

  Right, they, so they illegally, they illegally stole text messages from sitting members of Congress, uh, regarding what specifically? What, what were the text messages saying? That was, it was a part of the Russia probe, but...

• 2:32:16Speaker 02

  The collusion.

• 2:32:24Danny Jones?

  This is yet another grotesque example of the Biden administration's weaponization of the Department of Justice, Johnson said. Jack Smith's team acted with impunity as they disregarded their own protocols to obtain access to the White House text messages, including messages, uh, from 44 members of Congress. At this point, no one should be shocked by Jack Smith's recklessness and blatant abuse of power. They should be outraged.

• 2:32:52Speaker 02

  But he got the stuff.

• 2:32:56Speaker 02

  Didn't he?

• 2:32:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but if you get the stuff, maybe you do it illegally, are you allowed to use it in a court of law?

• 2:32:59Speaker 02

  No, that's why he's holding back, he's now developing a way to use it legally, by subpoenaing those people and say, did you say those things or not?

• 2:33:10Speaker 02

  Very simple. You can correct things.

• 2:33:12Danny Jones?

  So how the hell did Russia sway the election?

• 2:33:19Speaker 02

  They didn't, by giving him enough finance to do, to run, he ran, he was...

• 2:33:29Danny Jones?

  Didn't he get like a hundred and something million for Marion Adelson?

• 2:33:33Speaker 02

  That too, that too. He got a lot of money, he, you see, you forget one thing, that when he ran, when he came down the escalator the first time, I don't need anybody's money, I'm rich, I'm so rich that I don't need any money, I will come and clean the house, I will clean the day or whatever and do all those things. He was bankrupt at the time. All his casinos in Atlantic City were bankrupt. He bankrupt, he bankrupt his casinos, that his father gave him his money to, to open, billions of dollars. So now he needed money to run. You need a lot of money to run to become a president.

• 2:34:12Danny Jones?

  Right, correct.

• 2:34:14Speaker 02

  And Russia gave him the money to run.

• 2:34:17Danny Jones?

  But we have no evidence, though.

• 2:34:18Speaker 02

  There is evidence of, it just didn't come out yet in the right vehicle, but there is evidence of that. And it will come out in due time.

• 2:34:29Danny Jones?

  Who has the evidence?

• 2:34:30Speaker 02

  Well...

• 2:34:32Danny Jones?

  You do?

• 2:34:34Speaker 02

  Me? No.

• 2:34:36Danny Jones?

  So why did, why did Russia, first of all, how do you think Russia gave him this money? Uh, how did they keep it a secret?

• 2:34:44Speaker 02

  It's money that came through oligarchs who came in to buy real estate from him and gave him inflated numbers for each apartment that they bought from him. That's how they laundered money. The best way to launder money is real estate. You can make a number, you, you can quote a number for an apartment, and if somebody pays you...

• 2:35:08Danny Jones?

  So you're saying he refinanced a bunch of his hotels and casinos through Russia?

• 2:35:12Speaker 02

  That's right.

• 2:35:14Danny Jones?

  Which means Russia holds the note on a bunch of his real estate? On all of them?

• 2:35:19Speaker 02

  All of them. He doesn't own anymore, most of his...

• 2:35:22Danny Jones?

  How would someone, a forensic financial investigator, go about proving something like that?

• 2:35:29Speaker 02

  It's easy.

• 2:35:31Speaker 02

  It has been done already.

• 2:35:35Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:35:39Danny Jones?

  Interesting.

• 2:35:40Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:35:42Danny Jones?

  So...

• 2:35:44Speaker 02

  That's what Jack Smith is talking about.

• 2:35:46Danny Jones?

  All right, he's referring to this.

• 2:35:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:35:54Danny Jones?

  So what do you make of this whole conflict with Ukraine and Russia?

• 2:36:01Speaker 02

  Well, you know...

• 2:36:02Danny Jones?

  And Trump's position on it and...

• 2:36:03Speaker 02

  I, I, I'm pro-Ukraine, I'm against Russia, they had no reason to invade Ukraine. And, um, it's, it's a shame that we let it go so far. If America would have put a foot down a long time ago when it started and told Russia, stay away from, from Ukraine, if not NATO and us will come and assist them.

• 2:36:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:30Speaker 02

  He wouldn't, he wouldn't have done it.

• 2:36:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but...

• 2:36:33Speaker 02

  He felt enough secure to go ahead and invade Ukraine, because he knew that America will not stop him, and America will make sure that NATO will not stop him. And that's what happened. But now things are changing. NATO is now reacting differently, and we are slowly now releasing more weapons to him, just recently, just yesterday, we gave him another huge amount of missiles and so on.

• 2:37:03Danny Jones?

  Who, who's, who do we give missiles to?

• 2:37:05Speaker 02

  To Ukraine, to Vasilyanovski.

• 2:37:07Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:37:08Speaker 02

  We're allowing him now to, to build some of our weapons in Ukraine.

• 2:37:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah, now what about the argument, what, what do you think about the argument, though, that a lot of smart people make, geopolitical analysts make about how Ukraine, or the United States, has been pushing, allowing NATO to creep up closer and closer and closer to Russia, when the original agreement was no Ukraine, that was always a hard line? And then there, all of a sudden, now there's talks, not only is the United States putting bioweapons labs in Ukraine and doing coups in Ukraine and trying to influence Ukrainian politics, when that's always been off the table, because that was the one hard line boundary that, that Putin had when it came to NATO expansion. But we said, fuck you, we're gonna keep pushing NATO as far as we fucking can.

• 2:37:56Danny Jones?

  And, you know, not only that, but like, there was the, the color revolutions, the Maidan thing and all that, where this is, Ukraine's been this tug of war between the West and Russia. And, you know, eventually, the dam just broke. Like, like, can you see it from his perspective?

• 2:38:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. It's, it, what, what happens right now, you, NATO woke up and realized they cannot rely on the United States anymore for security. They need to develop their own capabilities to defend Europe and not rely, they hope that America as part of NATO will come in, but if they don't, they need to be able to defend themselves. They see the war with, they see now, what, it was obvious before, that Ukraine was the only country who was in war with Russia, that everyone should have supported to put Russia in place from the beginning. And it hasn't happened.

• 2:38:59Speaker 02

  Now, they are waking up, they're all supporting Ukraine, including the United States, as of the last few weeks, are supporting Ukraine more than ever before.

• 2:39:12Speaker 02

  It's because they're realizing that Russia will not stop with Ukraine. They will go for Poland, they will go for Romania. They need a port in the Mediterranean, they need Bucharest, they need Romania also. So if you don't stop them now with Ukraine.

• 2:39:29Danny Jones?

  Right, I see what you're saying, but isn't this all because of us? Didn't we start this problem?

• 2:39:34Speaker 02

  Oh yeah, of course we started the problem. Of course we started the problem because whoever made the decision to start the problem had no clue of European politics and history.

• 2:39:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Like imagine if you like to put the shoe on the other foot and if Russia started opening bioweapons labs in Mexico and started doing coups with the Mexican government and doing all this stuff and you know, and started putting, you know, ICBM missile sites.

• 2:40:06Speaker 02

  All the stuff that you just said happened after the war, two, three years into the war already. It didn't happen because we came in one day and started putting those labs and Russia said, wow, look what they're doing, let attack Ukraine. No, it all happened after two, three years of mega attempts of attacks on Ukraine by Russia.

• 2:40:33Danny Jones?

  You're saying pre 2019?

• 2:40:35Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:40:35Danny Jones?

  Or post 2019?

• 2:40:36Speaker 02

  Post.

• 2:40:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but we've been pushing NATO up closer and closer and then the talks about getting Ukraine to join NATO happened before that.

• 2:40:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, we wanted to allow NATO, we wanted to make, we invited Russia to join NATO too if they wanted.

• 2:40:53Danny Jones?

  No, that's not what I heard.

• 2:40:55Speaker 02

  No, no, no. Originally, there was a time before Trump, that there were talks among the intelligence departments in the United States that it would be wise to have long-term peace in the world in a way because we are worried about China, not Russia.

• 2:41:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:41:16Speaker 02

  And we would like to have China, Russia with us if ever it came to a war with China. So we needed to have a dialogue with them, maybe they want to join, not officially, but be closer, we will cooperate, we will not attack them, they will not attack, we will, there were talks about, about bringing them into the European team. And they refused to do so. They refused to come on board. Then the United States decided, we're gonna push them to maybe make a different decision

• 2:41:58Speaker 02

  by getting NATO closer, bringing, instigating, maybe bringing Ukraine into NATO, which Russia put it as a red line. We were testing, it's all testing each other, how far can we go? Like little kids, slap on a hand here, slap on a hand there. It's not serious because you don't have real professionals who make those decisions in the United States right now. They don't have read history, they're not following history, they don't understand, look what happened in, with Iran. It's the same story.

• 2:42:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:42Speaker 02

  We miscalculated it not because we were stupid, it's because we never studied it, we never listened to professionals. The first arrangement with Iran regarding the nuclear agreement was done during.

• 2:43:01Danny Jones?

  Obama?

• 2:43:02Speaker 02

  Obama. And the person who ran this in deal was, what's his name, the famous senator who, he worked on it for almost two years.

• 2:43:17Danny Jones?

  What senator did the Iran deal? The JCPOA?

• 2:43:20Speaker 02

  Um, he was famous, he was running for president and then he, I'm bad with names.

• 2:43:28Danny Jones?

  Bob Corker?

• 2:43:29Speaker 02

  Sorry?

• 2:43:30Danny Jones?

  Ben Cardin, Bob Corker?

• 2:43:31Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:43:32Danny Jones?

  This is what I got.

• 2:43:35Speaker 02

  No. The guy who is attributed to the top guy who negotiated the.

• 2:43:42Danny Jones?

  Who negotiated the JCPOA? Go on, John Kerry?

• 2:43:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:43:47Danny Jones?

  John Kerry?

• 2:43:47Speaker 02

  John Kerry. John Kerry worked for two years negotiating it with Iranians and he said they were professional, they, they were smart people. It took two years to come up with, we said, we tore it apart.

• 2:44:05Danny Jones?

  Netanyahu hated the JCPOA?

• 2:44:07Speaker 02

  Of course, of course, because it was against his will to attack.

• 2:44:12Danny Jones?

  Right. You thought it was a good thing?

• 2:44:15Speaker 02

  The what?

• 2:44:15Danny Jones?

  JCPOA?

• 2:44:16Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:44:17Danny Jones?

  The Iran deal?

• 2:44:17Speaker 02

  Yes, yes. It delayed everything and hopefully smarter people one day will come and run the world and, and we don't need wars. I'm, I'm against wars because I've seen what wars do.

• 2:44:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, as I know, we were talking about this last night, it's like, we're in the age where war doesn't work anymore and it's become obvious and China has already seen this.

• 2:44:40Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:44:41Danny Jones?

  And they're playing the long game and they're just gonna let these crazy maniacs run around with the guns.

• 2:44:45Speaker 02

  Because the leaders in China are there forever. It's the same people for years, generation after generation, it's, they learn, they saw history, here, every four year you get another person, by the time he studies what's going on.

• 2:44:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:45:00Speaker 02

  And if he's not smart, he can't study at all.

• 2:45:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:45:04Speaker 02

  Period.

• 2:45:04Danny Jones?

  You get more done when you're not a democracy.

• 2:45:06Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 2:45:07Danny Jones?

  And when you're trying to spin your wheels and pretend like you're a democracy.

• 2:45:10Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 2:45:11Danny Jones?

  Running the shadow government behind the scenes.

• 2:45:13Speaker 02

  You just said it.

• 2:45:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That's become more, I think the whole Epstein stuff coming out has made that more apparent to the public, the people who are at least paying attention.

• 2:45:23Speaker 02

  I think so, and I hope so. I hope people listen, I hope people open their eyes and I hope, and, and, and just connect dots.

• 2:45:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:33Speaker 02

  Because most people are smart enough to realize things on their own, but if they are hooked to one version of somebody who's dictating that version to them and they obey it and, and close their eyes and don't want to see anything else, then shame on them.

• 2:45:51Danny Jones?

  Uh, speaking of John Kerry, who is connected to Iran-Contra.

• 2:46:01Speaker 02

  Oh, I mean, he is, yeah.

• 2:46:02Danny Jones?

  And all that stuff. You, explain how you got into investigating the Pan Am bombing?

• 2:46:09Speaker 02

  Oh, very simple, after the plane was shut down, exploded in the air over Lake Abey, there was a bomb on board and the Pan Am.

• 2:46:23Danny Jones?

  What, it was 88?

• 2:46:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:46:25Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:46:25Speaker 02

  And they wanted to know, Pan Am wanted to know what have happened to the plane, who put the bomb on board, because it was clear there was a bomb on board, and they wanted to know who put the bomb, who, who was behind it. So their insurance company, the insurance company, US AIG, the insurance company that insured Pan Am and would pay for that study, hired me. So Pan Am and the insurer interviewed all the biggest investigators in the world and so on, and in the end, they decided to hire me to do the investigation.

• 2:47:07Speaker 02

  And I went out and for two months, two and a half months, went to Europe undercover, did my stuff, came back and wrote a report. And the report suggested, and I had all the evidence in the report, suggested that there was a drug operation done in the Middle East, in Beirut, where the CIA allowed drug dealers shipping drugs to the United States and got piece of the money that it was sold on the streets to, to children in Chicago and New York to raise a slush fund that the

• 2:47:50Speaker 02

  CIA was putting together to finance the war in the Contras in Latin America. And it was an Oliver, Oliver Noah's operation. It, it came out, it blew up later on and it wasn't, it came out later, but at the beginning. So I saw that and what have happened, we had seven hostages, this is a famous British and, and, and US hostages that were held in Beirut at the time, and the US government decided they want to go release them by force. Reagan decided.

• 2:48:24Danny Jones?

  October surprise?

• 2:48:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, something, so they sent three of America's James Bonds. I mean, really unbelievable, three guys, Green Beret, CIA operated, they send them undercover to Beirut to find out where do they hold, where the hostages are being held so the Marines can storm the beaches, go in and release them by force. The three arrive in Beirut and they don't know anybody there, so they contact the CIA guys that are stationed in Beirut all year round, at the embassy and so on, for help.

• 2:49:09Speaker 02

  And through discussions, they find out that the CIA is allowing a suitcase full of heroin on a weekly basis, going from Beirut to Cyprus, from Cyprus to London and London to New York on Pan Am every week.

• 2:49:29Speaker 02

  And they said, those guys are doing, the CIA guys on, on, on the ground are doing drug dealings and so on. We're not gonna cooperate with that. And we are not gonna let the Marines come in. We don't trust them now. Maybe they're gonna sell us out. Or the CIA people. We're flying back to Washington and we're gonna go to Congress and we're gonna spill the guts. And they made a fatal mistake by telling the people on the ground, guys, we're going back and we're gonna blow you guys out of the water. They bought a ticket, tickets. They flew from, it was just before Christmas.

• 2:50:09Speaker 02

  They flew from Beirut, they took the boat from Beirut to Cyprus, went to the travel agency in Cyprus to buy tickets on Pan Am 103 to go home on Christmas, just before Christmas. Stop there. The guys in, in, on the ground called Langley and said, the three guys that you sent in to do the, the job

• 2:50:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:38Speaker 02

  are on the way back. They're coming back to spill the guts to Congress of what's going on. They're giving you heads up. Okay. So now the CIA knows that the three guys are on board of Pan Am 103 because they have copies of the tickets. They know the passengers. They know their names and so on. So now the suitcase is a different story. Few months before that happened, the US government, a Navy boat in the Mediterranean, in a Gulf, shut down an Iranian aircraft, civilian aircraft by mistake,

• 2:51:23Speaker 02

  full of pilgrims that came in from Mecca to Iran. They were flying over the boat and they by mistake thought that they're coming to attack them, to shut them down. And the following day, there were pictures of bodies of women and children floating on it. It was a disaster. Iran officially said that they're gonna avenge that. They're gonna shut down, they're gonna do something to an American courier before Christmas.

• 2:51:57Danny Jones?

  An American what?

• 2:51:58Speaker 02

  Courier. Pan Am. It wasn't, it wasn't aimed at Pan Am.

• 2:52:02Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:52:03Speaker 02

  So Iran needed deniability. They didn't want to do it on their own. They hired Ahmad Jibril, who was a notorious terrorist out of Damascus, was hiding in Damascus, who was specializing in aviation bombing. Notorious. He tried several times to do other aircraft and it didn't succeed, but he was the ticket. He got documented now. Fifty million dollars to do the, to do the, to put a bomb on a American airliner. Happens to be that Ahmad Jibril owned the Bekavelli.

• 2:52:41Speaker 02

  The Bekavelli is where all the drugs are being grown and all the heroin and stuff comes from. It's his operation. That's how he makes money year round.

• 2:52:53Danny Jones?

  In?

• 2:52:54Speaker 02

  In Beirut. In, in, yeah, Bekavelli. So he knows, because he is preparing the suitcase, a weekly suitcase, that the CIA is taking and selling it to raise money. It was his suitcase and his courier that takes it on board. He said, very easy. Rather than drugs, I'm gonna put a bomb in it. The CIA courier will take it with him and he always says that it's a diplomatic pouch, government pouch. No custom doesn't open it. He will put it on board of the aircraft. Any aircraft that we can find, but it's gonna be Pan Am because we know the route of that suitcase every week.

• 2:53:40Speaker 02

  And the rest is history. And that's what happened. It happened to be that it's the same aircraft that the three CIA guys that were flying back to spill their guts were on flight 103 going out of London now. So I did the investigation and I found out that, it's a long story, that the suitcase comes into Frankfurt, to Frankfurt Airport, to Frankfurt in Germany. And then it, it goes on a feeder, what they call a feeder, it's a small aircraft,

• 2:54:23Speaker 02

  to London and then it goes on to Pan Am 103, a big plane that goes, a jumbo jet goes every day to New York. So the suitcase comes down, the, comes down, the, somebody checks it in. The courier checks the suitcase. He comes in, he buys a ticket, he checks the suitcase in Germany. The suitcase goes down to the basement where all the suitcases are being put on a trolley and then taken to the aircraft. Like every day.

• 2:54:56Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:58Speaker 02

  At that time, the CIA had an undercover person works at the baggage handling area. They wanted to make sure that somebody down at the baggage area will supervise that the suitcase that is coming down the escalator with all the rest of the suitcase. Nobody will touch it, nobody will open it and so on, because there's drug in it.

• 2:55:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:55:23Speaker 02

  Not a bomb, the drug in it. And just put it on a, right trolley to the aircraft. His name was O'Neil. Okay. So when I did the investigation, I told the Pan Am, listen, you own the baggage handling area. It's your baggage handling area. It's Pan Am's baggage handling area. I wanna do a polygraph test to the five guys there to see if they know about a mysterious suitcase and what's in the suitcase. I said, okay, we'll arrange it. I flew. I took with me

• 2:56:01Speaker 02

  a retired FBI, top FBI polygrapher, who retired and was the best FBI polygrapher ever. He came, he worked for me now. I flew with him to Frankfurt and we did a polygraph, announced the polygraph to the five people that day. Four arrived and one didn't arrive to the polygraph. The four that arrived passed the, said, yeah, we knew about it, but we didn't know what's in it. The guy who didn't show up came in two hours later, running in and said, Mr. Vive, I need to talk to you. I cannot take the polygraph.

• 2:56:42Speaker 02

  I said, why can't you take? He said, well, I just came, I just came back from the American Embassy in Bonn. I went to talk to my handler and my supervisor and they told me, don't take this polygraph test. But I can tell you that I wasn't there the day that specific suitcase with the bomb went through. I went to the dentist that day. Unbehooved to them, the German authorities were suspecting that there was something going on in the, in the area of the baggage handling of Pan Am.

• 2:57:23Speaker 02

  Because Pan Am was the only courier who flew, American courier, who went to Berlin at the time, had a flight to Berlin also. They thought that there's something going on in Berlin with the Russians. So they were at cameras in the area. And I got the footage from them. And I see O'Neil taking the suitcase and going to the public phone and making a phone call, hanging it and puts the suitcase on the trolley and takes it. So he wasn't at the dentist. Then Pan Am owns all the phones in the area, in the baggage handling. They were recording, all the phone calls were recorded

• 2:58:03Speaker 02

  because they were abused by the baggage handler. They were calling their families all over the world when they didn't have work to do. So Pan Am wanted to see who was making all those phone calls and so on. I got the phone call. I got the phone call and the phone call says, this is O'Neil calling the embassy in Bonn. I have the suitcase today. It's much heavier than usual. And the answer there is, we know, let it go.

• 2:58:35Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 2:58:37Speaker 02

  I got the suit, I got the tape. I got, I got, I said, I have a bombshell. What did the CIA know and why did they let the bomb go?

• 2:58:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:58:48Speaker 02

  Okay. Furthermore, it's getting even more complicated. We find out that the day of the flight, or the few days before the flight, suddenly forty-eight or sixty-eight people canceled their flight on that specific flight going to New York. And before Christmas, you couldn't get a ticket. I mean, it's impossible. And what happened, unfortunately, a class of the University of Syracuse were on vacation.

• 2:59:26Speaker 02

  I'm still emotional about it. Forty-eight of them got free tickets, got the tickets to go on board and died on board. Who got off the flight? Government employees that the CIA warned to get off the flight, cancel the flight.

• 2:59:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:59:44Speaker 02

  And we had all the cancellations because Pan Am were my client and I can get the flight.

• 2:59:51Danny Jones?

  All the cancellations were government officials?

• 2:59:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:59:55Speaker 02

  Okay. So now, I wrote the report. And that report became a nightmare for me. I finished the report. And O'Neill first gave us a confession. Later on, yes, I was there and I was told not to, and not to take the call and the polygraph and so on. And we took the report, I gave it to Pan Am, they flipped out. The CIA allowed the bomb to go aboard. And they used an American courier, a flight every week, for sixteen months documented,

• 3:00:41Speaker 02

  to have that suitcase, sixteen months on a daily basis, weekly basis, flying to New York with drugs. A CIA guy came to the airport to pick the suitcase up before it even went through customs. He used to come on a weekly basis, went to Pan Am and says, I'm a CIA guy. I have a diplomatic pouch on the plane. They drove him to the plane when it landed. He picked up the suitcase and drove it out. It never went through customs.

• 3:01:13Speaker 02

  They're all documented. Now, we have a bombshell.

• 3:01:15Speaker 00

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• 3:01:46Speaker 02

  So, the chairman of Pan Am and the insurance guy decided, we're gonna go to Washington and we're gonna confront the CIA. And they took me with them. And in the meeting, the people there who met with us didn't know who I am. They thought I'm a lawyer, part of the legal field. And one of the top guys, which I won't mention who it is, a top guy said to the head of Pan Am and the insurer, guys, whatever is on this, whatever is mentioned in this report is true.

• 3:02:28Speaker 02

  But you cannot do anything about, talk about it because it's national security and state secret. And you're not allowed to do anything with it.

• 3:02:38Speaker 02

  Okay? So they said, really? We're not gonna go? We're gonna go to the president with us. We're gonna go, we are now gonna go as high as we can to get an answer. Why did you guys allow a suitcase full of drugs, eighteen months going on on our aircraft?

• 3:02:57Speaker 02

  So I go home. And they went and talked to some, other people got the same story. You cannot use it, it's national security. And we want to know who wrote the report. Because some of the information, they said to them, some of the information in the report must have come from our computers because it's so accurate.

• 3:03:19Danny Jones?

  From whose computers?

• 3:03:20Speaker 02

  From the CIA computers. They wanted to know who wrote it. So, I'm at home Friday night, watching TV, eating dinner. Suddenly, I see a news blitz. A congressman, Traficant, standing in front of Congress with my report in his hand. And he says, Pan Am one oh three was downed by the CIA. And the reporter Yuval Aviv of Interfor wrote this report that I have in my hand and we will publish it.

• 3:04:05Speaker 02

  Hours later, my house was surrounded by media trucks with antennas. I couldn't get out of the house. All them, every reporter, every media, every newspaper, every whatever, worldwide, came to my house, they wanted an interview with me. They knew my name now. I wrote the report. So, I couldn't get out. Two weeks, I'm at home and the guys outside, they're relentless, they're staying there with the cameras. My wife couldn't go out. I mean, it was really a disaster. And Pan Am negotiated with the press that not all of them, but one designated person will come to interview me. Pan Am will arrange for the interview. They'll allow it.

• 3:04:52Speaker 02

  I came to the interview and the government didn't allow them to do the interview. And the media guy didn't show up.

• 3:04:59Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:05:01Speaker 02

  So now Traficant, they went after Traficant.

• 3:05:05Danny Jones?

  What's his name?

• 3:05:06Speaker 02

  It was Traficant.

• 3:05:08Danny Jones?

  Trafic?

• 3:05:09Speaker 02

  Traficant, he's famous, he was a...

• 3:05:11Danny Jones?

  Not Traficante.

• 3:05:12Speaker 02

  Traficante.

• 3:05:15Danny Jones?

  The mob guy?

• 3:05:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, but later on, he's a mob.

• 3:05:19Danny Jones?

  Huh.

• 3:05:20Speaker 02

  He was a congressman. Is it Traficant or a...

• 3:05:23Danny Jones?

  James Traficant?

• 3:05:24Speaker 02

  What?

• 3:05:25Danny Jones?

  James Traficant. Oh, Traficant. Oh, this guy. Okay, James Traficant. I thought you were talking about Traficant. Okay, I was talking about, I think it's something different.

• 3:05:33Speaker 02

  Okay. So now, every reporter in the world, every magazine in Europe, in the world, had a copy of my report and they were all trying to go and

• 3:05:48Speaker 02

  see if there's holes in my reports or something.

• 3:05:52Danny Jones?

  Just for the record, Google AI says, despite the claims that there was a CIA bomb onboard, which were sensationalized by the media in the late eighties and early nineties, no evidence ever substantiated the theory that there was a DEA sting operation or any CIA involvement or any drug trafficking allowed by terrorists.

• 3:06:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I went...

• 3:06:18Danny Jones?

  Google AI says you're completely full of shit.

• 3:06:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, I know that. They tried it during the trial. I won the trial, then they changed, they had to change it. Okay. So now, I'm at home and Pan Am comes to me and says, listen,

• 3:06:34Speaker 02

  would you go to Europe and help continue the investigation because now we have to expand it? I said, no, it's impossible for me to get out of the house, they're all following me.

• 3:06:46Speaker 02

  Time Magazine came to me, in the office, and said, listen, we will assign our best investigative reporter. He's an old timer, he's in retirement, Roy Rowan, we're bringing him back. He was the investigator on the killing of Kennedy. He found the Caputo...

• 3:07:08Danny Jones?

  The Brer film?

• 3:07:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:07:09Danny Jones?

  What was this guy's name?

• 3:07:10Speaker 02

  Roy Rowan. If you, in the stuff that I send you, there's a...

• 3:07:16Danny Jones?

  Roy Rowan, okay.

• 3:07:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, Roy Rowan. He's famous.

• 3:07:20Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:07:21Speaker 02

  So if you agree, you travel with Roy Rowan and you investigate with him, you reinvestigate, yeah, Roy Rowan, you reinvestigate the foot, you do again what you've done and show him how you did it. If he comes back and he says that you're, everything you said is correct, we will give you a cover and ten, fifteen pages and support you. If he comes back and he says you're full of shit, then we will give you a cover and twenty pages that you're not gonna like.

• 3:08:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:08:05Speaker 02

  I said, amen, I'll do it. Thank you. I went with Roy Rowan. We did four weeks investigation, traced most of the stuff. He interviewed the people there. He did everything that I'd done. Came back and you have a picture of it in my book proposal.

• 3:08:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, find the Time Magazine cover.

• 3:08:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, Time Magazine gave me a...

• 3:08:30Danny Jones?

  Yuval Aviv, Time Magazine, Pan Am.

• 3:08:33Speaker 02

  Gave me a page, front page, plus twenty pages saying that whatever I said in the reports is correct and so on and so forth.

• 3:08:44Danny Jones?

  Well, I bet the CIA wasn't happy about that.

• 3:08:46Speaker 02

  Oh, wait, it's getting worse. Now, every other magazine starts copying Time Magazine.

• 3:08:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:08:52Speaker 02

  Then Time Magazine used to come in every Sunday night. You can buy it already Sunday night before the subscribers would get it Monday, Tuesday. So, on Sunday night, Ted Koppel of Nightline called me up and said, I would like to do a full hour. Normally he has four people that he interviews.

• 3:09:13Danny Jones?

  Sixty Minutes?

• 3:09:14Speaker 02

  No, it's ABC Nightline.

• 3:09:17Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 3:09:17Speaker 02

  Ted Koppel. He was, he was the news person every Sunday.

• 3:09:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09:24Speaker 02

  Against, stationed against Sixty Minutes.

• 3:09:27Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 3:09:27Speaker 02

  Not against, a competition.

• 3:09:28Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 3:09:30Speaker 02

  So, he said, I'm gonna screw the rest of the people. You're gonna get a full hour on your own. I wanna interview you. And I did the interview with him. And he said, I support, fully support your investigation too. Now you have ABC Nightline, you have Time Magazine, and you have all the European mega newspapers, my pictures onboard and so on, saying, yes, his report is correct. The CIA and the US government have to do something about it. So they decided to make an announcement that they found who put the bombs onboard.

• 3:10:11Speaker 02

  Two Libyans out of Malta sent the bombs in an unattended suitcase that went on Pan Am one oh three with a bomb in it. And they are working for Gaddafi and they're hiding in, in...

• 3:10:30Speaker 02

  Libya?

• 3:10:31Danny Jones?

  Libya.

• 3:10:32Speaker 02

  Libya. And since they're hiding in Libya and Gaddafi is not gonna release them, there's nothing we can do about it. And of course, we know.

• 3:10:38Danny Jones?

  That's what CIA said.

• 3:10:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Announced, made a press conference. So now, it didn't work. Because the reporters started looking into that and realized that those two guys who worked there, the Libyans, had nothing to do with Pan Am and they never should get, weren't in the airport at the time to send it and so on. That whole theory fell apart. But meanwhile, it was countering my opportunity to say my investigation was right.

• 3:11:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:11:15Speaker 02

  So then they decided they're gonna sue us all.

• 3:11:18Danny Jones?

  The CIA?

• 3:11:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. The government, the CIA, will sue us.

• 3:11:23Danny Jones?

  Who is the president?

• 3:11:24Speaker 02

  Um, is it Reagan?

• 3:11:27Danny Jones?

  Eighty-eight?

• 3:11:28Speaker 02

  Eighty-eight, I don't know.

• 3:11:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it must have been Reagan.

• 3:11:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's Reagan. Okay. So Friday afternoon again, I'm sitting in my office, thinking, it's all over. Two FBI come in and said to me, Juval, and those are two FBI that I worked for 12 years. They were my, the people that I worked with on cases, who hired me to work with them and so on, that we apologize, but we have to arrest you and take you downtown and book you. You are arrested for lying on a report that you did for a client of yours. I said, guys, good luck to you. I'll come with you. With pleasure. You can arrest me, you don't even have to work hard.

• 3:12:14Speaker 02

  I'll come with you and we're gonna have, we're going to court with this. We're gonna have a trial and I'm gonna embarrass the hell out of all of you. So they said to me, since we're friends, we are not gonna put handcuffs on you in your office. So the building where you are, you know, everybody knows you, you come to the car outside with us, don't run away, and we'll put handcuffs on you, we have to, in the car. I said, no problem. They take me downtown to, downtown in Manhattan to their office, and no one in the office is willing to fingerprint me, because they're all my friends over there. They had to bring in an agent from another city to come in special, and I'm sitting

• 3:12:56Speaker 02

  there waiting for him to fingerprint me. Then they walk me to court and meanwhile, my office called Jerry Shagel.

• 3:13:07Danny Jones?

  Who's that?

• 3:13:08Speaker 02

  Jerry Shagel is the most famous criminal lawyer in New York at the time. Jerry Shagel. He defended all the mafia people, the major ones. They couldn't put them in jail just because of him. He is an unbelievable, powerful, a criminal lawyer. And since I knew that something is gonna come up, I thought before, I contacted him a month before I was arrested and said, Jerry, we were friends, I worked with him on cases. If anything happens, I want you to be my lawyer. I said, with pleasure, Juval.

• 3:13:52Speaker 02

  Don't worry, I'll come and bail you out. So now, they came to pick me up Friday night on purpose, by the afternoon, that by the time I get to court and by the time they book me, there's no judge to release me, they can't book, they cannot do anything.

• 3:14:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:14:10Speaker 02

  But I have to go to jail and spend the weekend in jail.

• 3:14:13Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:14:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Little did they know, that as soon as they arrived in court and booked me in court officially, Jerry was there already and bailed me out. Now we go home and Jerry says to me, Juval, listen carefully, you are taking on the government. This is no, they are gonna do everything, they'll lie, they'll cheat to put you in jail. Actually, what they all want is to say for you, for you to say, that you misunderstood the evidence that you saw and the report is false. If you are willing to do that, they'll let you go.

• 3:14:56Speaker 02

  I said, Jerry, I'm not gonna do that. Absolutely not. Everything in the report is right and you're gonna defend me. It took a year and a half to get to a trial, from the moment I was booked. In the year and a half, the FBI went to every client of mine, bedmauled me, told them not to give me work, told them that I'm an Israeli spy who was sent by Israel to make the CIA look bad, as if the CIA needs me to look bad.

• 3:15:37Speaker 02

  They are doing a great job on their own without me or without Israel. And we're building again, during that year, every week, this FBI comes into Jerry's office and said, listen, tell your client, please, to just take back his report, say he's noted and we'll let it go. And Jerry says, I tried, he doesn't want, he wants a trial. Now, little did I know how much it's gonna cost. So the cost is astronomical. First of all, Jerry, just to say hello to him is fifty thousand, fifty thousand dollars in cash on the table, just to say hello before he even starts. You know, those are numbers that you cannot believe, because his clients are all mafia

• 3:16:21Speaker 02

  people, they have the money. And the FBI went and put a freeze on all my bank accounts that can use money, my corporate accounts, my bank account. Couldn't pay payroll, I can, I have hundreds of employees. Thank God, to a client in Toronto, who said to me, Juval, you did very well by me. I will finance you during this period of time. I will pay you, I'll do everything for you. I'll pay Jerry for you. And when you win the case, I know you're gonna pay me back. And I said that.

• 3:17:05Speaker 02

  And because of him, I'm sitting here and talking.

• 3:17:08Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:17:09Speaker 02

  Because it went astronomical amount of money. So now, the government needs to put a case. They had to go and indict me officially. They went twice to a grand jury and couldn't indict me. The grand jury wouldn't indict me. So they came after 60 days to Jerry and said, could you give us an extension, please? Because we can't find. So I said, Jerry, don't give them. Are you crazy? No. If they did, it's over, he said, Juval. It's, say, let's give them an extension, because they're gonna find something else and come back again with something else. Let's do it right. I said, okay.

• 3:17:52Speaker 02

  So they took another 30 days and they charged me with the two counts that they do when they have no, that's what they call the ham sandwich indictment.

• 3:18:04Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:18:05Speaker 02

  One count, well, they accused me that I lied on a report that I did for GE Capital. I was a consultant for GE Capital. They were taking their best clients every year on a yacht, on a big boat, love boat, on a Caribbean tour cruise, a month's cruise, and they brought in from all over the world the biggest clients. And they hired me to go to all the islands that they're gonna be parked and the people are gonna get off the boat to sightseeing, to see if it's secure. Just to give them a stamp of approval.

• 3:18:50Danny Jones?

  Like an advance team type deal?

• 3:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, advance team. And they paid me. I went, I did the tour, I came back, gave them a report, they paid me for the report. Thank you, and they loved it. Okay. What now the indictment was, GE Capital is in Connecticut, I'm in New York, that they charged me for one wire fraud, because I wired, I wired the report, I'm sorry, not wire fraud, one mail fraud, because I send by mail my report to Connecticut, to my

• 3:19:32Speaker 02

  client, GE client, and then one count of wire fraud, because they wired me the money, paid me for that. I said, Jerry, we have a problem. I needed the money. I drove to Connecticut in my car and I handed them personally the report and right then and then, they gave me a check. They didn't wire me the money. So those two indictment is absolute.

• 3:20:02Danny Jones?

  It's wire fraud to send a wire from Connecticut to New York?

• 3:20:05Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:20:05Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:20:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, of course, it's across states.

• 3:20:10Danny Jones?

  You can't send a wire across states?

• 3:20:12Speaker 02

  Yes, but if it's fraudulent, because I lied on a report, I caused them to send me funding, because I lied on a report. They claimed that I never went to those islands.

• 3:20:25Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 3:20:26Speaker 02

  And I never did the tour, I never did, I just wrote a report and gave a report. And therefore, if they can get me accused of lying on that report.

• 3:20:39Speaker 02

  Then I can, they can say that I also lied on the Pan Am report.

• 3:20:43Danny Jones?

  I understand.

• 3:20:44Speaker 02

  That's what it was all about. They needed to prove the report, Pan Am report.

• 3:20:49Danny Jones?

  They're reaching out.

• 3:20:49Speaker 02

  Now, GE, GE was outrageous because, A, how did the FBI find out that I even did the job for them? Did the FBI go to all my clients and say, what did you, I'll work for you, what did they do for you? They probably did. Until they found that, they said, that's a good one. We can use that. So now, we're going to a trial. And at great cost to the government, taxpayers, they brought in from those islands, the governors of the island, the police commissioners of the island, all the people that I claimed in my report that I met when I went there, introduced myself and said, GE is sending a love boat full of people here.

• 3:21:33Speaker 02

  I'm coming to tell you in advance and we just say hello and so on and so forth. Every one of those people that I met, I gave them my business card, as I always do, and they gave me their business cards. When I came back, I sent them thank you report and they sent me thank you report. And three of them asked me for a job because they are retiring, in writing. Okay, this is the people that now they're claiming that I never met. The FBI claims them. We go to trial, cut the story short. It's just before Christmas, again. And they brought all those people, put them in World of Astoria for a week,

• 3:22:16Speaker 02

  wined and dined them, so they can say that they never met me. And it was three years later, four years later, I mean, I came to somebody's office, shook his hand, you think he remembers me? No. The first gentleman that they introduced, the prosecutor that introduced, is the governor of one of the island. An older gentleman, looks distinguished really and so on. He walks in and sits down and the prosecutor says, he's, look at this guy there, Yuval Aviv. Have you ever met with him? The guy looks at me and said, no, I never met with him. Are you sure you never met with him? Sure.

• 3:22:57Speaker 02

  Jerry gets up and says, Governor, good afternoon. I'm glad you're here. Tell me, before we start, are you taking any medication? The government says, you know, I'm seventy, over seventy years old. Everyone in that age takes medication. Yes, I'm taking medication. Would you tell the court what type of medication do you take? No, I couldn't. I'm not gonna say. So the judge is, excuse me, Governor, you're in my court now and you have to tell him the truth. Okay, I take medication for, I have Alzheimer. The jury were laughing.

• 3:23:40Speaker 02

  The judge was furious. So you don't remember him? No. Okay. Jerry takes out from his pocket, because we did, we knew who's coming, so we investigated all of them, we prepared. Jerry takes out a magazine, a newspaper, and says to the governor, do you know Susan Smith? He said, no, I don't know Susan Smith. Are you sure that you do not know Susan Smith? No, I don't know Susan Smith. He picks up the newspaper. Susan Smith is the cousin of the governor. She was awarded as a beauty queen of the island

• 3:24:23Speaker 02

  and he had pictures with her on the front page of the newspaper a month ago, before he came. And he didn't remember her. When the judge saw that, he says to him, Mr. Governor, I want you to get up and leave the room right now, this court, and never come back. And just before he is getting up and he said, actually, now that I look at him, I think I remember him, you know? And he walks out.

• 3:24:50Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 3:24:51Speaker 02

  One, but the court case was for a week. One by one, all those guys that they brought in, Jerry did a number on them, similar numbers. So now the jury is going to deliberation. And you know, you never know, because the government is trying to do it. Two minutes after they're going to deliberation, the foreman of the jury comes up and says, Your Honor, I need to talk to you in chambers. My heart was, now it's more money, you know, it's Friday and I thought it's gonna be over already. Monday, it's another twenty-five thousand dollars per day.

• 3:25:34Speaker 02

  So we all go, the prosecutor, Jerry, myself and the lawyer, another lawyer, we go into the chambers and the foreman said, Your Honor, we, the jury in the jury room, we want to acquit Aviv right away, but we are afraid that the FBI is gonna go after us also. The judge says, I understand. I will come to the jury room. I will address the jury. I will give all of you an eight-hundred number, it is a free number that you can use for any phone, to my chamber and any time in the future that you guys have problems with the FBI, you think you have,

• 3:26:18Speaker 02

  you call my number and call my chamber and let me know about it. But it doesn't allow you now to go and commit crimes, so you can go. You were laughing me. Now they go back and I said, oh my God, I hope, I hope it works. I cannot tell you what it takes for somebody who is accused by the government to, when the jury is coming back and the clerk says, all rise, the jury comes in, and you're standing there. With all my fame and experience of doing Munich and ten other things,

• 3:26:59Speaker 02

  I was never so weak and never so worried as I was at that moment, because I didn't know what they're gonna say. My whole future was on the line. I had my whole family, my friends in the background waiting to see. The place was full with reporters from all over the world, because they wanted to see what happens. The jury exonerated me in two minutes. Not guilty, not guilty on all cases. And the judge said, which I still, I framed it and I have it in my office on the wall. The judge said, Mr. Aviv,

• 3:27:41Speaker 02

  you are leaving my court with your chin up, I'm quoting now, with your chin up. The government has concorted a case against you to punish you for the Pan Am case. And you have prevailed. Good luck to you. So now, to be truthful, I needed to go to the bathroom. I needed to pee so badly because I was holding, that I was. So the bathrooms are not on the same floor of the courtroom, they're on the lower court. I'm running to the elevator to go downstairs to pee. I walk into the elevator, the prosecutor and the FBI guy

• 3:28:26Speaker 02

  who were instigating everything against me was standing there. So I look at them and I said, guys, remember one thing for the rest of your life. You had your day, now it's mine. For the rest of your life, always look behind your back, because one day, I'll be there. So the FBI guy stopped the elevator, ran out, ran into court and started, Your Honor, Your Honor, Mr. Aviv just threatened us in the elevator. And the judge turned around and said, good for him. That was the end of it.

• 3:29:02Danny Jones?

  Oh my God.

• 3:29:04Speaker 02

  Now, what the FBI did, the government did, it's not only the FBI, but the government did. A week during jury, when they were interviewing jurors for the jury collection, they put an, they put a article in Wall Street Journal's front page. Mossad agent Yuval Aviv defrauded GE Capital and is anti-American. That was an article while they're getting jurors for the, for jurors for the.

• 3:29:46Danny Jones?

  That was during the initial jury selection?

• 3:29:48Speaker 02

  Yes. That's what they put there. When I won the case, there was, Wall Street Journal put a small note in page thirty-two, he was just acquitted from all case, I mean, you know, they wouldn't. Why was it, why I remember it? Because on the same page, they had a big article against Gingrich. Something about Gingrich. And then it says Gingrich, and then Yuval Aviv, the spy, who defrauded GE Capital. That was, every juror saw it, I mean, they all, New York, they all read.

• 3:30:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, how is that not a case for like a mistrial?

• 3:30:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But all I tell you, that's, now I understand what the government is doing to call me, what they're doing, all those lawsuit against the, in New York, the, what's her name? The, wow, I'm getting tired. The.

• 3:30:51Danny Jones?

  The lawsuit in New York against?

• 3:30:52Speaker 02

  Against what's her name, who sued Trump for money, the.

• 3:30:58Danny Jones?

  Oh, oh yeah, I know who you're talking about, but I can't remember the name anyways, right off the top of my head.

• 3:31:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, all of this stuff is.

• 3:31:07Speaker 02

  That's what he's doing to all of them. They're all suing. And you know, they're all trying to sue because it's costing you money to defend yourself.

• 3:31:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:14Speaker 02

  And the toll it takes on your family when they do that, it's punishing you.

• 3:31:19Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Yeah, it's a it's very rare that somebody wins a case against the government.

• 3:31:24Speaker 02

  What I'm proud of to say that it's known, I was sued by the FBI in the Southern District of New York. My trial was done at the Southern District of New York. Ninety nine percent of all cases at the Southern District of New York, when they take a case and they really try to put you in jail, you always go to jail in the end. So that's why the pressure was so high. And besides that, the government is trying so pushing them to make sure that I'm gonna be indicted, that I'm going to be accused, that I'm gonna be all of it. I mean, the Southern District and I won.

• 3:32:04Speaker 02

  It was Jerry. And at the same time, while he was doing my case, he was doing another case in the next room. He was defending the promoter of the boxing, the boxing promoter, the guy with the big hair. Do you remember the with the big Afro who was.

• 3:32:23Danny Jones?

  Muhammad Ali?

• 3:32:24Speaker 02

  No, promoter.

• 3:32:25Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 3:32:26Speaker 02

  They they promoter who was promoting all those big boxing.

• 3:32:31Danny Jones?

  What's the lawyer's name? How do you spell his name?

• 3:32:32Speaker 02

  Jerry.

• 3:32:33Danny Jones?

  Jerry?

• 3:32:34Speaker 02

  Shargel.

• 3:32:35Danny Jones?

  How you spell the last name?

• 3:32:36Speaker 02

  S H A R G E L.

• 3:32:40Danny Jones?

  Jerry Shargel. Pull him up. I'm sure he'll have a list of some of his most famous clients.

• 3:32:46Speaker 03

  Okay, let's see here. I believe this is.

• 3:32:49Danny Jones?

  Is that Jerry right there?

• 3:32:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's him and the one in the head and all of them.

• 3:32:53Danny Jones?

  Type in Jerry Shargel clients.

• 3:32:58Speaker 02

  It's not client. We were defended. What was it? It's famous. Think.

• 3:33:04Danny Jones?

  Okay, click on his Wikipedia. I'm sure to list them there.

• 3:33:06Speaker 02

  Think.

• 3:33:07Danny Jones?

  Notable clients. There you go. Amanda Bynes, Jeffrey James Conan, Mark Dreyer, Johnny Machine Gun Johnny, John Gotti.

• 3:33:19Speaker 02

  Yes, he did. He got he got him free.

• 3:33:22Danny Jones?

  Sammy the Bull Gravano?

• 3:33:23Speaker 02

  Of course. Hey, give me some.

• 3:33:26Danny Jones?

  Whoa. Christopher Chris Gotti Lorenzo, co-founder of Murder Inc. Records, who was acquitted on all charges of money laundering and conspiracy to launder money against. Wow, Oscar Wyatt. Whoa, Oscar Wyatt, the Texas oil man who pleaded guilty to paying kickbacks to Hussein's administration to gain access to Iraqi oil contracts?

• 3:33:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 3:33:51Danny Jones?

  Holy shit. And Malcolm Smith.

• 3:33:55Speaker 02

  No. What was his name? The promoter guys?

• 3:34:00Danny Jones?

  Just type in, just type in the guy's name and type in boxing promoter afterwards.

• 3:34:05Danny Jones?

  Click back.

• 3:34:07Speaker 03

  I gotcha.

• 3:34:09Danny Jones?

  Boxing promoter.

• 3:34:13Speaker 03

  John.

• 3:34:13Danny Jones?

  John A. Light?

• 3:34:15Speaker 02

  Who?

• 3:34:16Danny Jones?

  John A. Light? Not Johnny.

• 3:34:18Speaker 02

  No.

• 3:34:21Speaker 03

  As in career mobsters, defending the mobsters.

• 3:34:24Speaker 02

  Not my.

• 3:34:25Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 3:34:25Danny Jones?

  It's not pulling up anything about a boxing promoter. That's weird.

• 3:34:29Speaker 03

  About boxing, soaking up knowledge about boxing.

• 3:34:32Speaker 02

  It was his headlines all. I mean, it was. Yes, because what he did after he was acquitted, he took the whole jury to a week vacation in Hawaii.

• 3:34:44Speaker 02

  I told the jury, I'm sorry, I can't do it.

• 3:34:47Danny Jones?

  That's incredible, man. Wow.

• 3:34:50Speaker 02

  You remember the black guy with a big.

• 3:34:53Danny Jones?

  It's not ringing a bell for me. I don't know. In the eighties?

• 3:34:56Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 3:34:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it was too early for me. I don't remember. I was born in eighty seven, so I was a little late to the party. But that's an incredible story. Like, like I said last night, you're the Forrest Gump of the shadow world. You've been everywhere. And we haven't even talked about the Danny Castellaro Promise Software stuff.

• 3:35:15Speaker 02

  Talking about my upcoming book, you know, everything that I talked now about, I'm writing a book. I'm writing my memoirs right now. And I'm, you're the first time that I, first person that I talk about it, because I just finished writing a book proposal, and I'm looking for a publisher right now to publish it. And it's gonna tell all those stories.

• 3:35:36Danny Jones?

  So it covers everything from the original Wrath of God operation to.

• 3:35:41Speaker 02

  And what happened to me after in America and all the shadow government and everything around it.

• 3:35:47Danny Jones?

  And there's like a whole thing, a whole backstory. You knew Danny Castellaro, and you were working with, and like, there's a story about how it's all connected to Robert Maxwell with the Promise Software and your, how you met Ghislaine and all that stuff. There's so much.

• 3:36:01Speaker 02

  There's so much, yeah.

• 3:36:02Danny Jones?

  You're connected to so many different, you know, as most people would call conspiracies that happened in the United States.

• 3:36:09Speaker 02

  I mean, that's why I wanted to write the book, because there's too many events that really happened that I know of, that I participated in and worked in, that have been now assumed as conspiracy and pooh-poohed by the public and by the media and put away. And I said, time has come to make sure that, to do justice by those people who died in those conspiracies. And their story will never be told correctly. And it has to be told correctly. It's not fair.

• 3:36:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:45Speaker 02

  It's not fair. Because you know, when you're in, in America, and I want to end by saying to you one thing, I hope it's gonna be on the thing in your podcast. Most Americans, as we know, people, they're innocent people. They don't have malice in in in their vein. They don't go out to do fraud on purpose and so on. Most people would like to have a good job. They want to come home to their family at night, have dinner, have sex, go to sleep, and enjoy life.

• 3:37:20Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:37:21Speaker 02

  They don't want to hear that their president is corrupt. They don't want to hear that their government is corrupt, that people are dying all over in stuff, in operations that shouldn't have happened at all. They don't want to hear it. And that's why the government gets away with all of it. Not only the US government, it's Netanyahu and then Israel gets away with it, and other countries too. But it hurts us because we live here, and it's our government

• 3:37:57Speaker 02

  who is, has their share in all that kind of things that they're now label conspiracy.

• 3:38:07Danny Jones?

  Right. The people are not their government.

• 3:38:10Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 3:38:11Danny Jones?

  That's something that most people have to get a grip on these days.

• 3:38:15Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:38:17Danny Jones?

  Juval, thank you so much for doing this, man. This has been fascinating, to say the very least. You've been everywhere and I hope your book can come out soon, covering all this stuff. Is there a name, a title of it yet or?

• 3:38:35Danny Jones?

  Is it called like Exposed or something?

• 3:38:37Speaker 02

  Exposed.

• 3:38:37Danny Jones?

  Exposed, okay.

• 3:38:38Speaker 02

  Yeah. Okay. I sent you, I did send you the.

• 3:38:42Danny Jones?

  Riveting.

• 3:38:43Speaker 02

  The book proposal.

• 3:38:46Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes. It's a very riveting story. And I hope people can get access to it sooner than later.

• 3:38:51Speaker 02

  I hope so.

• 3:38:53Danny Jones?

  Anything else we should tell people before we leave?

• 3:38:57Speaker 02

  No, just open your eyes and try to make your own decisions. How you interpret it, the news, when you read the news, or you listen to the news, or you watch TV and get information. If it doesn't make sense to you, it may be not correct. It may be something that you need to just explore a little further.

• 3:39:23Danny Jones?

  Very well said. Thank you again. Thank you for coming. I very much enjoyed this.

• 3:39:27Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 3:39:28Danny Jones?

  Good night, everybody.

• 3:39:34Speaker 06

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