#418 - "It's All True" DEA Operative Breaks Down CIA's Secret Sinaloa Deal | Hector Berrellez

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Hector Berrellez is a retired DEA Special Agent. His signature case was investigating the 1985 abduction, torture, and murder of undercover DEA agent Enrique "Kiki" Camarena by Mexican drug cartels, where he uncovered a tangled web of CIA involvement in Mexican drug cartels. SPONSORS https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off. EPISODE LINKS The Last Narc book: https://a.co/d/01gWblpR FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - Operation Leyenda & Kiki Camarana 06:25 - The golden age of Mexico's drug cartels 08:44 - Who killed Kiki Camarena & why 12:21 - CIA's involvement in cartel drug & weapon trafficking 18:33 - Kiki Camarena discovers cocaine trafficking 25:16 - CIA agent confesses to Kiki Camarena's murder 33:35 - CIA "Larry Harrison"'s REAL identity 38:10 - Felix Rodriguez aka 'Max Gomez' 44:38 - CIA vs. DEA 47:10 - Evidence Felix Rodriguez betrayed Kiki Camarena 56:42 - Recordings of Kiki Camarena's torture 01:01:19 - Kidnapping the doctor who tortured Camarena 01:10:30 - Felix Rodriguez today 01:13:05 - El Mayo Zambada was NOT kidnapped 01:23:50 - CIA & DEA collaboration with cartels 01:26:06 - China's silent war against Americans 01:33:22 - U. S. is more corrupt than Mexico 01:38:15 - How CIA infiltrated the DEA 01:45:47 - DEA director's response to Hector's claims 01:49:14 - Felix Rodriguez's alibi 01:53:25 - What CIA & DEA are doing in Mexico today 01:55:38 - Truth behind El Mencho killing 02:04:38 - "Running with the wolves" 02:09:58 - Cartels have biological weapons 02:13:11 - Cartels own our marijuana dispensaries 02:19:39 - Fentanyl wars in Mexico 02:25:08 - How to fix the cartel problem 02:27:12 - Incineration camps in Mexico 02:32:16 - Cartels are richer & more dangerous than ever 02:38:19 - "It's all true" Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, General Manager at Safr Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 0:09Speaker 01

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, Special Finance Manager at Safr Credit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit Safr Credit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 0:31Speaker 00

  Hello, I'm Chris Richards, General Manager at Safr Volkswagen Richmond. I'm here to announce an exciting new program that I want you to listen to. Here's my friend Happy.

• 0:40Speaker 01

  Hi, I'm Happy Harry Turner, Special Finance Manager at Safr Credit.com. If you're in an open Chapter 13 bankruptcy, recently filed a Chapter 7, or you've been turned down because of credit challenges, don't give up. For nearly 30 years, I've helped people get reliable transportation when others said no. Visit Safr Credit.com. Remember, I'm not happy unless you are.

• 1:07Danny Jones?

  We're rolling Hector.

• 1:08Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 1:09Danny Jones?

  Pleasure to meet you, brother.

• 1:10Speaker 03

  Same here, brother.

• 1:11Danny Jones?

  Thank you for coming.

• 1:12Speaker 03

  You're welcome. I'm glad to be here.

• 1:14Danny Jones?

  I'm a big fan of your movie, The Last Narc. I've watched it many times. I probably watched it like five or six years ago, something like that, and recently had David Holdhouse in, who made the movie with you. And I've interviewed your good friend Felix Rodriguez on the show, confronted him about the Kiki Camarena thing, and you know, he had a whole bunch of rebuttals against that from like, that wasn't his name, Max Gomez, he didn't have that name yet, he was in Miami, he has an alibi, all this stuff. So this is a story I've been following forever. So it's very exciting for me to have you on here. So but for people that aren't familiar, give like your high level 90,000 foot

• 1:54Danny Jones?

  background and how you got into all this stuff with The Last Narc and your background in the DEA and all that stuff.

• 2:00Speaker 03

  Well, I'm a retired DEA Special Agent. I did 27 years with the DEA.

• 2:06Speaker 03

  Well, I signed to the DEA, of course, because I spoke Spanish. I was assigned to a lot of, a lot of international cases, mainly in Central and South America. I worked a lot in Mexico. The highlight, though, of my career was when I got appointed to supervise Operation La Yenda, the task force that was delegated investigative responsibilities on the kidnapping, torture, and murder of my friend Enrique Kiki Camarena.

• 2:39Speaker 03

  As I stated before, I was there 27 years. I was, if not the highest decorated agent, agent in the agency. I'm right at the top. I have been decorated with the US Attorney General's Award for Heroism, given to me at the White House by Attorney General Ed Mees. The Administrator's Award, which is the award you can get by the DEA. I also was a recipient of the Medal of Valor by the Federal Agents Association. So I am very highly decorated.

• 3:22Speaker 03

  I was, would you would say, a shooting star with the DEA that crashed.

• 3:29Speaker 03

  And the reason that I crashed was because I started uncovering

• 3:35Speaker 03

  how corrupt our government was and that our own government had a hand in the murder of Agent Camarena. I was told not to ever reveal what I had uncovered. And they used the fact that I had been ordered to kidnap a doctor who had administered drugs from Camarena.

• 4:01Speaker 03

  I was ordered to kidnap him, and I did. And because I kidnapped him, the Mexican government issued a warrant for my arrest for violating their sovereignty and also for kidnapping. So when I was getting ready to retire, they reminded me that I had to keep my mouth shut because I didn't want to end up in a jail cell in Mexico for kidnapping the doctor, which they ordered me to do, because I would be murdered. So be a good guy, enjoy your retirement. However, months and words, keep your mouth shut.

• 4:42Danny Jones?

  Who told you to keep your mouth shut?

• 4:43Speaker 03

  The DEA.

• 4:44Danny Jones?

  The DEA.

• 4:44Speaker 03

  The DEA, High Administrators of the DEA. So when I left the DEA, I had the murder warrant still outstanding for me. And I couldn't say anything because I was afraid that my own government was going to send me to Mexico where I was wanted. So for 13 years after retirement, I couldn't say anything. But once my warrant in Mexico had expired, I said, now's the time for me to come clean. And that's when I basically wrote my book, The Last Narc, where I exposed all this stuff. And of course, from there, The Last Narc Documentary followed.

• 5:31Speaker 03

  I have no reason to lie. You can ask me anything you want. If I don't know the answer to what you asked me, Danny, I will tell you I don't know. But if I know, I'm going to give you an answer, and I'm going to back it up with facts and evidence. So let's go.

• 5:50Danny Jones?

  So you met Kiki Camarena in the 80s?

• 5:53Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 5:54Danny Jones?

  Working where?

• 5:55Speaker 03

  He was stationed at the time at Fresno, California. That's before he went to Guadalajara. I was stationed in LA and he was in Fresno, which is, you know, right north of LA.

• 6:08Danny Jones?

  And at what point, did you ever go down to Mexico to work with him there?

• 6:13Speaker 03

  No, I never worked with him down there. I had been to Mexico many times, in and out, conducting, you know, black operations, different operations, but I never worked with him. When I did come to have a lot of contact with Kiki was right before he got kidnapped. He was already in Guadalajara. I was in LA, in the Riverside area. And I needed a couple of informants because I wanted to go up on a certain group that were dealing a lot of heroin, and I needed a couple of informants to basically go before a magistrate to provide evidence that these guys were committing the heroin trafficking so that I could go up on a wiretap.

• 6:55Speaker 03

  Those two informants, or Kiki's informants. So basically, when I was looking for those guys, I called Kiki, who was in Guadalajara, out of LA, and I said, Kiki, I need informants that are familiar with this, this operation, this illegal heroin trafficking operation or organization, better said. And he did. He provided me with those two informants that were very effective. And while I was talking to him back and forth is when he got kidnapped.

• 7:24Danny Jones?

  What was your overall, like, what did your overall operation look like in the 80s? Like, like, high level, high level, like, what were your objectives? Like, what was your, your overall view of the drug war back then? And how did that change and evolve?

• 7:46Speaker 03

  Well, back then, the major cartel, and it wasn't even called a cartel, the major drug trafficking organization operating out of Mexico was the Guadalajara Drug Cartel. And the leaders were Ernesto Fonseca Carrillo, Miguel Ángel Celos Gallardo, and Caro Quintero. Of course, there were others, but these were the three top leaders of the then Guadalajara drug trafficking organization.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  They were our primary targets.

• 8:15Danny Jones?

  Right, right. There weren't as many factions as there are now.

• 8:18Speaker 03

  No, there was only one faction, and it's interesting, Danny, because the one that ran the Guadalajara cartel, Ernesto Fonseca Carrillo, ran it with an iron fist. Basically, you couldn't kill anybody without his permission.

• 8:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 8:33Speaker 03

  Number one. Number two, he didn't permit his men to just go out and, and girls and assault citizens. That was not tolerated. If you did that, he would bring you in and have you murdered.

• 8:46Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, that seemed to be like the Golden Age of cartels.

• 8:48Speaker 03

  Iron hand. There was respect back then. He basically had everybody on the payroll, as far as government officials. But it's changed because now they murder each other and they kill each other. And there was, that wasn't happening in the 80s. There was only one cartel. The Guadalajara cartel.

• 9:08Danny Jones?

  And now it's evolved where you have all these different cartels with factions inside the cartels, and they're like, it's like this giant franchise organization that like, you have all these little sub-franchises that are operating underneath them, and they're being constantly being recruited and fighting against each other. And, you know, there's all kinds of violence happening all the time. And it's also like perfectly intertwined with the government now. And it seems like this thing that's so root, it's so deeply rooted in Mexico. It seems like it's almost impossible to get rid of.

• 9:41Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 9:42Danny Jones?

  So this Kiki Camarena thing.

• 9:48Danny Jones?

  Why do you think he was murdered and who do you believe murdered him?

• 9:56Speaker 03

  Okay. I found out that back in the eighties, in the early eighties,

• 10:02Speaker 03

  the Sandounista government, okay, overthrew the Anastasio Samosa regime in Nicaragua.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  And the people that were left that supported Anastasio Samosa became the Contras. They were contra Daniel Ortega's communist regime that had taken over. The Contras went to our people and said, we need help. We need help in defeating the communist Sandounista regime in Nicaragua. DIA, Defense Intelligence Agency, CIA, went to Congress and said, we need to assist the Contras, fund them, train them, and get involved in overthrowing Daniel Ortega's communist regime in Nicaragua.

• 10:53Speaker 03

  Congress said, no, we can't. We just came out of Vietnam. We got our bus kicked. We cannot afford to get in another conflict. So, no, we're not going to fund it. We're not going to provide any type of military assistance. Definitely not. This is

• 11:10Speaker 03

  why the CIA decided, okay, they're not going to authorize it. We'll do it secretly. We'll do it anyway.

• 11:19Danny Jones?

  Well, that might get in front of your face.

• 11:20Speaker 03

  We're doing the right thing here. So what do they do?

• 11:26Speaker 03

  They decide that they're going to get all these weapons that had been surplus from Vietnam,

• 11:32Speaker 03

  retool them and get them to the Contras. We're gonna, basically, they're listed as destroyed after the Vietnam War, but they weren't. They were retooled and rearmed and they were sending them to the Contras from Mina, Arkansas, back when Clinton was a governor. They were training, they started training Contras at Mina, Arkansas, and they started bringing in, even back then, cocaine to support the war. And one of the main transporters at that time was Berry Seal. Now, that operation, Danny, got exposed and they had to shut it down.

• 12:15Speaker 03

  So Felix Rodriguez was part of that operation in Mina, Arkansas, back in the early eighties. So they decide that they're going to relocate that operation to Mexico. And they relocate that operation to Oaxaca.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  And they put a CIA pilot's name as owner of this front storefront operation in Mexico. It's Machinery International, Machinaria Internacional, operating at the Oaxaca Airport. But what they're doing is they're bringing the weapons there,

• 12:53Speaker 03

  surplus weapons from Vietnam, as I stated. They're retooling them and they're rearming them. And they're trying to find a way to get these weapons secretly, clandestinely. Remember, because this was done against Congress's suggestions and orders. So they had to do it secretly. So they decide that they're going to go to the Mexican government and get their assistance in getting these weapons from Mexico now to the Contras in Nicaragua.

• 13:22Speaker 03

  The Mexican government at that juncture advised the CIA and our DIA and our NSC, all over North and them, we can't do it because we don't want to be seen by other South American countries as violating their sovereignty. We're going to have to do this very secretly. And the only way that we can do it is by joining forces with the cartels, who already have secret airstrips and secret ways of moving drugs around.

• 13:56Speaker 03

  So then, government, Secretary of Government Manuel Bartlett Diaz, who just, by the way, ran to Spain from Mexico just two or three weeks ago.

• 14:06Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 14:07Speaker 03

  Yes. Manuel Bartlett Diaz, who was as Secretary of Government, who had been postulated by President de la Madrid to be the next president of Mexico. He is the one that tells our people, our CIA and Secret Service folks, listen, we need to marry you guys with the cartels. If you guys work with the cartels, the cartel will help you. Use their secret infrastructure to move the weapons south to the Contras. So there was a meeting held by Felix Rodriguez, CIA operative, I understand Oliver North and others, who was then with the NSC, National Security Council, with the cartels. A meeting that was brokered by Manuel Bartlett Diaz,

• 14:52Speaker 03

  Secretary of Government, and who was trying to please the United States, because remember, he was going to be the next president of Mexico. So they had this meeting and they agree that, okay, we're going to use

• 15:06Speaker 03

  the Oaxaca cartel's infrastructure to move the weapons to the Contras. So they did that. So they opened up a training camp in a ranch in Veracruz called Rancho La Víbora,

• 15:22Speaker 03

  a ranch owned by Rafael Caro Quintero. They opened up operations there.

• 15:30Danny Jones?

  For growing weed? Like a weed ranch?

• 15:34Speaker 03

  No, it was, yeah, well, it was a ranch that he owned. But the reason, I don't know if there was weed in there. I really don't know. The reason they chose, the CIA wanted to use that ranch, because it had a very long airstrip where US military planes, huge cargo planes, good land.

• 15:49Danny Jones?

  Okay. I was under the impression, and I could be mistaken here, that he made like a lot of money off this ranch. Like, I think Felix told me that Caro Quintero made like a billion dollars a year from that piece of land.

• 15:59Speaker 03

  He's talking about Rancho Veracruz, which we'll talk about later. It's another ranch. This is just a ranch that we're using to basically fly in coke and fly weapons south. So as they become involved

• 16:12Speaker 03

  in with the cartel, as far as getting their weapons from that ranch flown directly to Eli Pango, El Salvador, where they were given to the Contras. It was a straight flight from Rancho Veracruz, La Víbora, to Eli Pango, El Salvador, for the weapons to go south. But the CIA then finds out how much money is being made on cocaine trafficking. So what do they do? They decide, using Berry Seal and other pilots, to fly cocaine north.

• 16:46Danny Jones?

  They learned about it?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, they learned as they became part of the

• 16:49Danny Jones?

  During this process is when they learned.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Yeah. They first, they first got together with the Oaxaca cartel to use their secret facilities to export weapons. But as they become involved with them, they see all the money.

• 17:04Danny Jones?

  They started hanging out, smoking cigars together, rubbing shoulders with these guys, seeing how everything works.

• 17:08Speaker 03

  They see how much money can be generated from cocaine sales or drug sales. So they decide that they're going to fund it, the war,

• 17:17Speaker 03

  and which I was told by them, we did it for a good reason. We did it to basically combat communism in South America. So they become involved in bringing in cocaine. And they're bringing the cocaine into the United States, where it is delivered to Danilo Blandone, a Contra Colonel, and Edwin Meneses, another Colonel in the Contra movement out of San Francisco. So now you have Danilo Blandone,

• 17:49Speaker 03

  who's a Contra, receiving a lot of cocaine in LA. And I investigated this, so I know all about Danilo Blandone. And Danilo Blandone is using Freeway Ricky Ross to basically supply the Bloods and the Crips with all the cocaine needed. In the process, they invent crack cocaine. And henceforth, we have the crack cocaine of the eighties, where all these babies were being born addicted to cocaine, because there was so much crack cocaine, that it was very cheap to get and it was a good poor man's high.

• 18:30Speaker 03

  So they inundated all central Los Angeles with cheap crack cocaine. And of course, Freeway Ricky Ross is who, he's supplying who? The Bloods and the Crips, who are then exporting it to New York, to Chicago, and all over the place. Major operation.

• 18:48Speaker 03

  So what you have now is you have our intelligence agency bringing in cocaine to support an unauthorized war by Congress. And they had to keep it really secret.

• 19:02Danny Jones?

  If you enjoy watching our show on Spotify or YouTube and you want to be more involved, I encourage you to please come check out our Patreon community. Not only does our Patreon community get every episode you see on YouTube, early, fully uncensored and ad-free, but we're also doing Patreon exclusive episodes, as well as live Q and As. And you can get your personal questions answered by our guests every single week. For me, being able to collaborate and communicate back and forth with our Patreon community every week has been huge. And this is my way of saying thank you for the cost of a cup of coffee a month. Now, back to the show.

• 19:33Speaker 03

  Now, let's get back to Kiki Camarena.

• 19:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:36Speaker 03

  So Camarena is in Oaxaca. And

• 19:43Speaker 03

  he finds out that a lot of cocaine is being flown into Rancho Víbora in Veracruz.

• 19:51Speaker 03

  Kiki decides he's going to open up an investigation on Rancho Veracruz and all the cocaine trafficking.

• 20:00Speaker 03

  Okay, so he opens up the investig, or he starts talking about opening up the investigation.

• 20:04Danny Jones?

  This is a separate ranch?

• 20:05Speaker 03

  This is not Buffalo yet.

• 20:07Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 20:07Speaker 03

  This is after Buffalo. Buffalo had already gone down. But anyway.

• 20:12Speaker 03

  So Camarena goes to his boss,

• 20:18Speaker 03

  who is also working for the CIA. Kymerkendal says, I'm going to open up an investigation because a lot of cocaine is being flown into Veracruz.

• 20:32Speaker 03

  So he opens up the investigation and it's taking a while for him to find out basically what's going on. But all of a sudden, in February, he's abducted, kidnapped, tortured, and murdered.

• 20:46Speaker 03

  Prior to this, Kiki had basically been blamed, been blamed for the destruction of Rancho Bufoalo, where 10,000 tons of cocaine, the biggest seizure in the history of marijuana, was destroyed. Now, here's what's important, and people should know. Camarena was not the case agent and was not really involved in Rancho Bufoalo, even though he was blamed for it. What had happened was, Caro Quintero had found a way to grow seedless marijuana, sin semilla marijuana.

• 21:31Speaker 03

  And he and Ernesto Foseca had basically planted a lot of hectares of this sin semilla marijuana. And here's the thing, they were recruiting people from small villages to come work as agricultural guys. They were going, they were recruited to go work in the fields. But once they recruited them and got them to Rancho, uh, Ravel Ranch, they were enslaved. They were no longer, they were not paid, they were made to work as slaves. Okay, so we have this major, and this is before Kiki was involved in all this stuff

• 22:14Speaker 03

  they were talking about, Rancho Viva, Veracruz, this is another ranch, this is in Bufoalo, Chihuahua. So, we ended up, and I'm gonna first of all, explain how we found out about the ranch, the Bufoalo Ranch. One of the workers escaped, and he went to the DEA office in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico, and he said, "Hey, there's a major plantation over here, I just escaped, they're recruiting us to work as field workers, and they're making us slaves, they don't pay us anything else, and those that tried to escape are murdered, so I wanna report that." So DEA, Hermosillo, Nahuatlajara, now where Kiki was at, opens up an investigation, they

• 22:55Speaker 03

  tried to go over there and photograph the fields or investigate it, but every road leading into the Bufoalo Ranch was highly protected by Mexican Army soldiers, they couldn't get in. So they drove up to a mountain, and from the mountain they could see down, and they see airplanes circling, waiting to land at Rancho Bravo to get loaded up with marijuana. They called Mexico City and they said, "Hey, we need help, there's a major operation down here, and we need the assistance of Mexico City, the federal agents to come in and help us raid this place." They stonewalled it for about five days, so they could basically get everybody out of there.

• 23:40Speaker 03

  So when they hit it, they ended up seizing over 10,000 tons of marijuana, but what was never really said in the news, they released over 7,000 campesinos that they had enslaved in there.

• 23:59Danny Jones?

  7,000.

• 24:00Speaker 03

  Over 7,000.

• 24:03Danny Jones?

  Good lord.

• 24:04Speaker 03

  And that's a fact, documented fact by DEA.

• 24:07Danny Jones?

  That's a lot of fucking people.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Of course, yeah. 7,000 people, can you imagine how big the fields were?

• 24:13Danny Jones?

  That's insanity.

• 24:14Speaker 03

  It's insanity. Okay, so, what happens is, okay, so, Caro Quintero is upset, and they, they basically say that Kiki was behind this thing, that Kiki would be the one that basically caused the loss of these big amounts, tons of, thousands of tons of marijuana. Kiki wasn't involved, he was not in the raid of Bufoalo. The only participation that Kiki had was that they needed, they, the Hermosillo DEA office needed, somebody to fly over and photograph the fields.

• 24:57Speaker 03

  And the only informant pilot that we had was Alfredo Sabala, who worked for Kiki, Nahuatlajara. So Hermosillo DEA calls Kiki Camarena and says, "Kiki, we need to borrow your pilot, we need him to fly over these fields over here and photograph them as evidence, so we can get Mexico City to react." Sabala alone, not with Kiki in the plane, flies over, he photographs the fields in Rancho Bufoalo Ranch in Chihuahua, and he flies back to Nahuatlajara, gives a film to Camarena, who then flies it to Mexico City, they develop it, and there's the evidence of this massive marijuana ranch in, um, Chihuahua, uh, Bravo Ranch.

• 25:42Speaker 03

  That was the total extent of Kiki's involvement, which is very minimal involvement in the field that you were referring to, the great field. Now, Rancho Viva is another ranch, it's not a big ranch, as far as I know, there was no, no drugs being, um, grown there or anything, but it was being used as a trampoline, basically by the CIA, and the traffic was to send weapons south, and planes would land there loaded with cocaine. Barry Seal landed on there numerous times, with a fat lady, with tons of cocaine. Now, you're gonna ask me, and I want you to ask me, Hector, how do you know all this? How do you know all this information?

• 26:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, how do you know?

• 26:24Speaker 03

  I know it because I flipped a CIA agent, Larry Harrison. I flipped him, he became my source of information.

• 26:36Danny Jones?

  How the hell did you do that?

• 26:37Speaker 03

  Basically, I threatened to kidnap him.

• 26:40Danny Jones?

  You kidnapped him?

• 26:41Speaker 03

  I threatened to kidnap him.

• 26:43Danny Jones?

  Oh, you threatened to kidnap him?

• 26:47Speaker 03

  When I found out that the DFS had been involved in Kiki's abduction, because they were.

• 26:55Danny Jones?

  The DFS?

• 26:57Speaker 03

  Director of Federal Security.

• 26:59Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  DFS, Dirección Federal de Seguridad, in Spanish, okay? I needed to recruit somebody within the DFS to give me information of who was involved and what were the agents that actually picked up Camarena in front of her consulate. So I, I reached out to some of my sources, and they said, "Well, there's a gringo that worked for DFS." I go, "What? There's a white guy that works for DFS, he's known as Torre Blanca." That's his name, Torre Blanca?

• 27:43Speaker 03

  No, that's his nickname, because he's a very tall gringo, and torre means tower and white, white tower, in Spanish. And he works for the DFS. That's strange. I said, "Okay, you know him?" I, I, my source was here in LA. "You know this guy?" He says, "Yes, I know him." "Fly to Nahuatlajara and put him on the phone with me, I wanna talk to this guy. I wanna know what he knows about DFS agents being involved in kidnapping Kiki Camarena." I said, "Okay, I'll do that, I know him, I'll, I'll, I'll go, I'll go get him on the phone with you." So he flies to Nahuatlajara, and he puts Larry Harrison on the phone with me.

• 28:28Speaker 03

  And I says, "Mr. Harrison, this is..."

• 28:31Danny Jones?

  What was his first name, Larry?

• 28:32Speaker 03

  Larry Lawrence Harrison.

• 28:33Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 28:34Speaker 03

  And that's not his real name, by the way, that's his CIA name.

• 28:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 28:37Speaker 03

  So I said, "Larry, I need to talk to you, I understand you work for the DFS." And he says, "Yes, I do." "Well, I need for you to talk to me, I want to talk to you about that Camarena murder case." And he says, "Hector, he says, "I'm not gonna talk to you, I'm not cooperating with you, go F yourself." And I said, "Oh, F myself?" He says, "Yeah." "Okay, you know what happened to that doctor that was involved in Kiki's murder, Dr. Machan, that I kidnapped?"

• 29:09Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:10Speaker 03

  He says, "Yeah." "Well, I'm kidnapping your white ass, I'm coming after you." He said, "You can't kidnap me." And I said, "You watch, I'm coming after you, I'm gonna have your white ass kidnapped, I'll do it." He hung up on me.

• 29:26Speaker 03

  And I tried to get him back on the phone and he wouldn't come back on the phone. So three days later, he calls me. He says, hey, uh, Hector, he says, uh, I saw you on TV and I know you have a lot of power over there with the DEA. And I says, I do. He said, um, you don't know what you're getting yourself into, but he said, you know what? I'll talk to you.

• 29:51Speaker 03

  He says, you'll talk to me? He says, yeah, fly me into LA, but nobody must know that I'm coming. Nobody, can you promise me that? I said, I'll send one of our private jets to pick you up. I don't need to bring you in.

• 30:05Danny Jones?

  DEA's got private jets? Wow.

• 30:06Speaker 03

  We have DEA has private jets, of course. So he said, okay.

• 30:10Danny Jones?

  I know the budget was stout.

• 30:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So anyway, we were seizing more than our budgets. We have plenty of money. But anyway,

• 30:17Speaker 03

  he flies into LA.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  And I go to meet him at a hotel where I had made accommodations for him.

• 30:24Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 30:25Speaker 03

  And I said, Larry, I said, um, what do you know about Kiki's murder? And he said, everything.

• 30:34Speaker 04

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• 31:20Speaker 04

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• 31:35Speaker 03

  I know everything. I said, he said, I said,

• 31:42Speaker 03

  how did you get a job with the DFS with Mexico's top intelligence agency like our CIA?

• 31:49Speaker 03

  He said, are you stupid? I said, don't insult me like that, dude.

• 31:55Speaker 03

  He said, do you think any white guy can just walk in and get a job? In any, any, in any country for any intelligence agency? I was placed there by the CIA. I am an employee of the CIA. That's why it was important that nobody knew that I came to talk to you. I almost fell out of my chair.

• 32:21Danny Jones?

  Was that the first time you'd ever?

• 32:22Speaker 03

  I said, you want to know who, who's responsible for Kiki's murder? We are. We killed him.

• 32:27Danny Jones?

  He said this to you?

• 32:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 32:32Speaker 03

  We killed him. And we killed him because he was about to expose Rancho Veracruz, where we're training Contras. And we're not only training Contras there. We are also bringing in cocaine through there, which we're selling to support an unauthorized war in Nicaragua. And of course, we're also, you know, sending weapons which we are retooling out of what?

• 32:59Speaker 03

  There's a contrast.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  I work for Ismael Felix Rodriguez. He's my control agent with the CIA.

• 33:06Danny Jones?

  He said this to you?

• 33:07Speaker 03

  Yes. The DEA knows all of this.

• 33:13Speaker 03

  This is the beginning of my investigation.

• 33:15Danny Jones?

  Where's this guy right now?

• 33:16Speaker 03

  He just died two years ago. He just died.

• 33:21Danny Jones?

  We, you're not allowed to say his real, do you even know his real name?

• 33:24Speaker 03

  Yes. I'm gonna tell you how I found out. So anyway, he says,

• 33:31Speaker 03

  we are training troops there. It's a contract, we have a Contra training camp there.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  And Hector asked me how I know this. And I go, how do you know this? I've been there. I was the one that set up all the towers for ground to air communications at Rancho Veracruz.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  And I saw how we're training the Contras there. And he throws names out like Colonel Steele was there. Colonel Petraeus was there training Contras.

• 34:05Speaker 03

  This is before later that they became CIA director.

• 34:09Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, for sure.

• 34:10Speaker 03

  And he tells me all this stuff. And he says, now, he says,

• 34:17Speaker 03

  what are we gonna do now? What are you gonna do? See, you're, you're, you're way over your head, dude.

• 34:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 34:22Speaker 03

  You're way over your head. I don't know what you're gonna do with this investigation. But I'm telling you, I am CIA. I was there. Kiki, I wasn't there when they picked up Kiki. Kiki was picked up because he basically was going to expose Rancho Vibora in Veracruz, which, which had to be kept quiet. Because the Kerry Commission was already investigating us for providing missiles to Iran. Iran Contra, he said. I said, whoa. And this could not be exposed.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  Wow. And he says, we're up to our asses involved in this thing. And it's a major cover up.

• 35:15Speaker 03

  And I'm telling you, Dan, I am dead very serious about this. This is all true.

• 35:22Speaker 03

  You can, you can attack me and that will people say this. I don't care. I have the answers for you.

• 35:28Danny Jones?

  But this is a, this is an anonymous source. That's the problem with all this.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Absolutely.

• 35:33Danny Jones?

  So this is all your testimony?

• 35:36Speaker 03

  Yes. We're getting ready to go to trial because we arrested some folks behind Ruben Zuno behind Kiki's murder.

• 35:42Danny Jones?

  Wait, wait, you're getting ready to go to trial?

• 35:44Speaker 03

  Well, I'm, I'm jumping ahead because you want, you, okay, well, let me, let me, let me find out. You asked me who he really was.

• 35:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 03

  Okay. You want to know who Larry Harrison really was? Because you asked me, was that his real name? No, it wasn't.

• 35:59Speaker 03

  That was a name that was given to him by the CIA. When I met Larry, a source, every source that we recruit, we fingerprint.

• 36:11Speaker 03

  If you want to be an informant for DEA, okay, fine. You want to go on DEA payroll as a contract worker and informant and what have you with DEA, we have to think your fingerprints.

• 36:18Danny Jones?

  So this guy continued to work for you as a source?

• 36:21Speaker 03

  Yes. So

• 36:24Speaker 03

  we're getting ready to go to one of the trials. So he's getting ready to testify. I don't remember what trial. But anyway, so the US attorney in charge of the case says, Larry, the first question I'm gonna ask you when you take the stand is, is your name Lawrence Victor Harrison? What are you gonna answer? He says, I don't know what to answer.

• 36:44Speaker 03

  He says, what do you mean you know what to answer? Are you Larry Harrison or not? I'm starting to remember. I'm starting to funny. He says, uh, well, I am, but I'm, I'm also have another identity.

• 36:58Speaker 03

  And he says, Hector, did you take this guy's fingerprints?

• 37:02Speaker 03

  And I says, yes. Did you get a match for his fingerprints and his name through NCIC? National Crime Information Center? Yes, I did. Lawrence, what's your problem, dude? He said, I don't have a problem. My real name is Gregory George, George Marshall Davis. That's my real name.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  Victor Lawrence Harrison is my CIA name.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Let's stop right here. The US attorney says, go run his fingerprints against, under this other name.

• 37:36Speaker 03

  George Marshall Davis. So I ran him. And it comes back that he has two identities.

• 37:45Speaker 03

  Two full identities through NCIC and all of our databases. So I come back to the US attorney and I said, look, this guy

• 37:55Speaker 03

  is a true CIA guy. The CIA has changed his identity to Victor Lawrence Harrison, but he was born George Marshall Davis in Pasadena, California.

• 38:08Speaker 03

  So, okay. I guess I won't ask you who you are. Understand, we're not to go through all this explanation.

• 38:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 03

  So anyway,

• 38:20Speaker 03

  he said it was Victor Lawrence Harrison, which he was Victor Lawrence Harrison, but he just had two identities.

• 38:24Danny Jones?

  Right. Now, wouldn't the CIA catch wind of him doing this and stop it? Like, how could he get away with, with?

• 38:31Speaker 03

  I had him under protection. I had him with the CIA. Couldn't get him anymore.

• 38:37Danny Jones?

  How so?

• 38:37Speaker 03

  In a, in a halfway house and nobody knew where he was.

• 38:41Danny Jones?

  So you basically got this guy to defect from the CIA?

• 38:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 38:47Speaker 03

  A lot of people don't know this.

• 38:49Danny Jones?

  That's wild. That's pretty wild.

• 38:50Speaker 03

  Isn't it wild?

• 38:51Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. DEA guy literally gets a CIA, an active CIA operator in Mexico to defect from the CIA to another US agency.

• 39:02Speaker 03

  Right.

• 39:04Danny Jones?

  Not a story you hear every day.

• 39:06Speaker 03

  With him on payroll and every day. That's why a lot of people, if you ask Danny, other DEA agents,

• 39:13Speaker 03

  that is what Hector says or what comes out in that documentary, The Last Dark, is that true? DEA guys say, no, it's not true. We don't, we don't do stuff like that. They're not lying. They don't know about it. So if you don't know about something, you're gonna say, it's not real to me. My DEA experience was not everybody's DEA experience. Like, we have units that are very secretive, like the CIA, and one unit doesn't know what the other unit is doing. So if you go ask another DEA agent, do we kidnap people? Oh, no, that's against the law. We don't kidnap people.

• 39:54Speaker 03

  He's not lying. He's been told we don't kidnap people. He doesn't know that we do. And that's why a lot of, a lot of agents are asked, what about, what about what Hector says about the CIA? I don't believe that. They don't believe that because they don't know it and they never lived it, Danny.

• 40:10Danny Jones?

  So, when he told you all this stuff, and he explained to you what the CIA was doing, and that he worked for Felix, or Felix was his handler, you said, something like that?

• 40:24Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 40:25Danny Jones?

  Did you ever try to find Felix?

• 40:27Speaker 03

  Yes. Well, at, at the time, he didn't tell me Felix's real name. Felix always went, like Larry Harrison, by Max Gomez.

• 40:39Danny Jones?

  Max Gomez, right.

• 40:41Speaker 03

  And he could say whatever he wants. Felix could say whatever he wants. That was his, that was his name. Like Victor Harrison, Lawrence, Larry Harrison. That's not his real name.

• 40:50Danny Jones?

  When I interviewed Felix, uh, about two years ago, he said that he was given the name Max Gomez, like, two, he said, I think, verbatim, the words he used was, he said, it was like two or three months after Kiki died is when he got the Max Gomez thing, he said.

• 41:06Speaker 03

  Not true. Not true.

• 41:10Speaker 03

  Not true. As a matter of fact, he claims not to have worked out of Guadalajara.

• 41:16Danny Jones?

  He what?

• 41:17Speaker 03

  Felix Rodriguez claims he was never assigned or worked out of Guadalajara. There's a CIA pilot by the name of Terry Reed, who worked under Felix Rodriguez out of Guadalajara.

• 41:31Speaker 03

  They were the ones that set up, as I stated before, Machinery International.

• 41:36Speaker 03

  Under Terry Reed's name, it was a storefront.

• 41:42Speaker 03

  And while there, he was operating with Felix Rodriguez, sending the weapons south and all that, that I stated before. But Danny,

• 41:57Speaker 03

  Terry Reed finds out that Rodriguez is shipping containers with the American seal under his company name. He finds out, he hadn't been told. So he goes and checks the containers,

• 42:13Speaker 03

  and they're full of cocaine.

• 42:17Speaker 03

  With the American seal, so when they cross into the United States, customs will not search it.

• 42:26Speaker 03

  Terry Reed confronts Rodriguez

• 42:31Speaker 03

  and says, what are we doing here? I'm not a drug dealer. Why are you shipping containers full of cocaine under my company name with the American seal? And he says, cool off, dude. Be cool. We're doing it for the good of America.

• 42:47Speaker 03

  Just keep quiet, don't say nothing. And Terry Reed decides he's not going to be involved in this. So he actually gets his wife in his semi, flees out of Mexico, and comes back to the United States.

• 43:01Speaker 03

  And basically quits the CIA, and later they arrest him on false, uh, insurance charges.

• 43:09Danny Jones?

  Terry Reed?

• 43:10Speaker 03

  Terry was arrested. He went to trial and he was acquitted. But he wrote a book

• 43:17Speaker 03

  that Rodriguez doesn't like to be remembered about. The book is called Compromised.

• 43:23Speaker 03

  And it's all the story of how he was working under Felix Rodriguez and how Rodriguez was importing tons of cocaine.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  See, I would like to sit down and be confronted with Rodriguez about all this stuff.

• 43:38Danny Jones?

  Hmm, that'd be, that would be, uh, a wild time.

• 43:42Speaker 03

  He denies it. And I would say, well, did you work for, did you work for, for Terry Reed or with Terry Reed in Guadalajara? You said you didn't live in Guadalajara. Were you there or not? Is Terry Reed lying in this book that he wrote? He's not lying. He's still alive, by the way.

• 43:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, the thing is, uh, if he did do this stuff, he legally could not admit it, right? If he admitted it, he would be a deep shit.

• 44:04Speaker 03

  Of course, he's not gonna admit it.

• 44:07Danny Jones?

  And, you know, also unfortunately, that is kinda like the point of the CIA, is like, to commit crimes for the organization running the country to survive and to make more money and to, and the problem is the corruption, the corrupt nature of it, and how it spiraled out of control.

• 44:25Speaker 03

  Let me, let me explain here. What you just basically stated is true.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  The CIA, a lot of people don't know this.

• 44:37Speaker 03

  Don't work under US constitutional law. They're not

• 44:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 44:40Speaker 03

  a law enforcement agency. Their operations, according to our constitution, should only be foreign. They should only be involved in foreign operations, but yet they've got their hands in everything here in our country. Number one.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Number two, I was brought in and talked about the CIA.

• 45:01Speaker 03

  And they told me that, listen, Hector,

• 45:05Speaker 03

  what we did, you have to understand, was the good of our country.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  We did it to fight off communism, which is gonna start spreading in South, in South America. We did it for the good of our national security. We do not see it as doing anything wrong. If we have to go to bed with the devil

• 45:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 45:27Speaker 03

  to protect our national security, we will.

• 45:32Speaker 03

  So basically, I was told, can you hear my phone?

• 45:35Danny Jones?

  No.

• 45:36Speaker 03

  I'm hearing.

• 45:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, you got a Bluetooth in your ear?

• 45:38Speaker 03

  There, yeah.

• 45:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, it is?

• 45:39Speaker 03

  Okay. Okay. And we take a little break here so I can go to.

• 45:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, go grab your phone. We'll be right back. So Stephen just found this article,

• 45:48Danny Jones?

  that says, uh, you and Wayne Schmidt, there's a report said the CIA used Mexico's DFS as a cover,

• 45:57Danny Jones?

  in case questions arose about who was running the training operation. Harrison also said that representatives of the DFS, which was also a front for a training camp, were in fact colluding with major drug lords to ensure that the flow of narcotics through Mexico to the United States. And who is this guy in this photo? Scroll down.

• 46:14Speaker 03

  That's, uh, Ernesto Fosseca Correio, that I was talking about.

• 46:17Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 46:21Danny Jones?

  Wow. What were we just talking about?

• 46:25Speaker 03

  But that report was one that was sneaked out. I wrote a lot of other reports that were kept secret by the DEA. After that, they put top secret on them and we could, in other words, this is the only one that actually got leaked out.

• 46:38Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah, so the major difference between like what the DEA is doing and the CIA is doing is that the DEA, they're like, you know, you guys are like cops, right? And the CIA, these guys are like clandestine operatives trying to weasel their way through organized crime to get shit done.

• 47:00Speaker 03

  Yes. That, distinctly put, that's correct.

• 47:04Danny Jones?

  Right. They're trying to advance their, this, the ambitions of the United States internationally, uh, to basically enrich the people that are in charge, right?

• 47:17Speaker 03

  Right.

• 47:18Danny Jones?

  And you guys are, you guys are just trying to fight bad guys and stop drugs, right? So there's a, there's a, a built-in rivalry there. There's a clash. There's a, there's a conflict of interest.

• 47:29Speaker 03

  Yes, there is.

• 47:32Danny Jones?

  And, um, so when they told you this, that this was real, that this is what's happening, like, we're working with these people and we're doing this stuff, like, how did you react? And, and how did that, did you immediately, did you continue?

• 47:44Speaker 03

  Well, basically, what I, my answer to the

• 47:46Danny Jones?

  Scoot in a little closer.

• 47:46Speaker 03

  The CIA guy that was talking to me, or CIA high up, um, officer, what my, my, my answer to him was, you know, everybody, everybody has a reason

• 47:58Speaker 03

  as to why they commit the crime. If I talk to a bank robber, who said, well, I robbed the bank because my mom had cancer and we had no insurance and needed the money. Your excuse in being involved in murders and drug trafficking is, okay, we need to, we, we need to do it for the good of our national security. It doesn't basically negate that you are committing crimes.

• 48:22Speaker 03

  And he said, yeah, but we're not a law enforcement agency. We don't care.

• 48:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 48:27Speaker 03

  We do what it takes to protect the national security of our country and to protect our citizens. And if we have to go to bed with a damn devil, we will. That's what they told me. And you need to understand that and become a team player and cut your criticism of us and exposing us as criminals. We do what we have to do and we're at a higher, basically, level than you guys are. Drug trafficking is a problem, but our national security is a greater uh, problem when it's at risk. So we gotta do what we gotta do. And you have to understand this, they told me.

• 49:02Speaker 03

  So go retire, enjoy your retirement and keep your mouth shut. That's what I was told.

• 49:09Danny Jones?

  So, whose decision was it to kidnap Kiki? And do you think it was their intention to actually kill him, or do you think it was an accident?

• 49:19Speaker 03

  From what my sources have stated, it was

• 49:25Speaker 03

  as far as their, at their level of involvement, it was Felix Rodriguez.

• 49:30Danny Jones?

  It was his decision?

• 49:31Speaker 03

  Not, he was basically a- acting under orders of other people above him, obviously. But at my informant's or my witnesses' level, they felt that Rodriguez was in charge of the whole thing.

• 49:44Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  Now.

• 49:46Danny Jones?

  And you, okay, continue, sorry.

• 49:48Speaker 03

  Now, let's, let's, let's, let's put it in perspective here.

• 49:54Speaker 03

  How did they know, basically, where Rodriguez worked? How did they come to know that Rodriguez was CIA?

• 50:03Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  The first witness that came in, first told me that there was a Cuban involved in interrogating Kiki. And I asked him, who is this Cuban? And how do you know he's Cuban? And he said, because the accent, it was, it was either Puerto Rican or Cuban. And his name is Phil, uh, uh, Max Gomez.

• 50:26Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 50:27Speaker 03

  Okay? Max Gomez, I write it down. Run him through every database I can find, nothing comes up.

• 50:37Speaker 03

  Six months later.

• 50:39Danny Jones?

  Who specifically told you that, by the way?

• 50:40Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 50:41Danny Jones?

  Who, who specifically told you that?

• 50:43Speaker 03

  My first witness that had basically been at, involved in the meetings where they tortured and murdered Camarena. I asked him, who interrogated Camarena, again? He stated, this Cuban or Puerto Rican guy. But he wasn't Mexican, I know because of the accent. What was his name? He said, Max Gomez. Max Gomez, right? Make note, ran that name through all of our databases, nothing comes up. Six months later, a second, I recruited a second witness that was at the scene where Camarena was tortured, interrogated, and murdered. Another one of the bodyguards that was there. And I asked him again, who interrogated Camarena?

• 51:28Speaker 03

  And he says, well, Caro Quintero did, this is this, and there was a Cuban guy. And what was his name?

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Max Gomez.

• 51:41Speaker 03

  Run him again, and nothing comes up.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  A year and a half later, a third witness is recruited that was there.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  This is a higher op witness who was in charge of Ernesto Fonseca's security detail.

• 51:57Speaker 03

  And we brought him in, and I said, okay, you were there. Who interrogated Camarena and what was Camarena asked by the interrogators? And of course, he names up all these other people that interrogated Camarena, which we already knew. Caro Quintero, Coachiloco, whatever, Felix Gallardo, whatever. But he says, but there was also a Cuban guy.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  A Cuban guy? And he says, yes, a Cuban guy. What was his name? He said, they called him Max Gomez, but that wasn't his real name. I talked to this guy a lot, because he uses to play weapons to us. Uh, his name is Felix Rodriguez, and he's a CIA operative.

• 52:42Danny Jones?

  Security guy said this.

• 52:45Speaker 03

  And I go, what's his name? Ismael Felix Rodriguez, CIA operative. And what else do you know about him? I know he was in Vietnam. He told me he was in Operation Phoenix in Vietnam.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  And what else do you know about this guy? How many times did you see him? He says, many times. He would always fly in with weapons, and then we would order to go pick up the weapons at the airport. And he would meet with Fonseca, and Fonseca, Fonseca would pay him for the weapons. He says, I know him very well, I know his name is Felix Rodriguez, he used to tell me stories about when he was in Vietnam.

• 53:25Speaker 03

  I said, whoa.

• 53:28Speaker 03

  I don't know at the time who Felix Rodriguez is.

• 53:34Speaker 03

  He's unknown to me, I have nothing against him, I write his name, boom.

• 53:38Danny Jones?

  This is after he, yeah, this had, this was way after Che Guevara, after he captured.

• 53:43Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, oh, yeah, absolutely. And so anyway,

• 53:51Speaker 03

  I said, wow, when I found out who this guy is?

• 53:57Speaker 03

  So then I go back to Larry Harrison.

• 54:00Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 54:01Speaker 03

  Larry, tell me about Ismael Felix Rodriguez.

• 54:08Speaker 03

  And I'm gonna tell you something that's never been said on camera before. Larry Harrison tells me, he's, he's a CIA guy that I reported to when I was in Mexico. And he's a CIA guy that planted a bomb at, uh, when they killed those American reporters, they blew them up, was trying to kill Comandante Cerro. I'm trying to remember the place right now. I said, what?

• 54:35Speaker 03

  It's called the Cristic, uh, something or other, anyway, I'll remember the name.

• 54:38Danny Jones?

  What bomb, what?

• 54:39Speaker 03

  A bomb that Rodriguez placed where they killed, like, six or seven American journalists.

• 54:44Danny Jones?

  Where was this?

• 54:45Speaker 03

  In Costa Rica.

• 54:46Danny Jones?

  In Costa Rica?

• 54:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. They were trying to, they were trying to kill Comandante Cerro, because he had gone sideways.

• 54:51Danny Jones?

  Try to find that, Steve.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  Comandante Cerro is.

• 54:54Danny Jones?

  What year are we talking?

• 54:55Speaker 03

  We're talking, uh, eighty, seventy, late seventies, early eighties.

• 55:01Danny Jones?

  The La Penca bombing?

• 55:02Speaker 03

  That one.

• 55:03Danny Jones?

  La Penca bombing was a bomb attack carried out on May 30th, 1984, in a remote outpost in La Penca.

• 55:09Speaker 03

  That's it.

• 55:09Danny Jones?

  On the Nicaraguan side of the border with Costa Rica along the San Juan River. It occurred during a press conference convened and conducted by Eden Pastora, who at the time was the leader of the Contra guerrilla group fighting against the ruling Sandinistas regime in Nicaragua. Pastora, the presumed target of the attack, survived the bombing, but seven other people were killed, including three journalists and several other, several others who were severely injured. The bombing was carried out by an operative posting as a news photographer and is considered a serious violation of journalistic neutrality during the armed conflict, like the assassination in 2001 of the Afghan leader,

• 55:49Danny Jones?

  Ahmed Masood, by Al Qaeda agents posing as international journalists, wow. Okay, in the years after the event, some journalists and activists, as well as Costa Rican judiciary, pointed to the United States government's CIA, which was seeking to direct the Contra insurgency against the leftist Sandinista regime in Nicaragua as responsible for the bombing. However, in 1993, the man who had placed the bomb, who, and who had attended the press conference under a false identity as a Danish photographer named Per Anker Hansen, was revealed to have been an Argentine leftist whose real name was Vital Roberto.

• 56:31Danny Jones?

  Okay, so they, they're saying it's somebody else, but they did believe it was a CIA guy who did it. But they, they're coming up with a different story, that it was a Swedish photographer.

• 56:42Danny Jones?

  So, so your guy from the CIA that you flipped, when you asked him who Felix Rodriguez was, he said that he was the guy who is his handler and who was the one who was responsible for placing this bomb.

• 56:51Speaker 03

  He was involved in it, he didn't say he was involved in the planning of the bomb.

• 56:55Danny Jones?

  He was involved in it, right.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  He told me that, that's Harrison told me about that, I never knew about that incident.

• 57:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 57:00Speaker 03

  When I interrogated Harrison.

• 57:04Speaker 03

  Okay?

• 57:04Danny Jones?

  That's wild.

• 57:06Speaker 03

  So, as you can see, well, this is headed, so I'm like, whoa.

• 57:09Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 57:11Speaker 03

  So Harrison also tells me about

• 57:16Speaker 03

  how, like, you know, Rodriguez was involved also in, uh,

• 57:22Speaker 03

  in facilitating the escape of another CIA operative by the name of Posades Carriles. And he, him and Posades Carriles, according to Harrison, planted a bomb of the, uh, of the Cuban fencing team that, when it left Venezuela, it blew up in the air. Well, Rodriguez escaped, and Posades Carriles, I forget his first name right now, was arrested in Venezuela for placing the bomb on that Cuban plane, in which all the Cuban fencing, Olympic fencing team perished.

• 58:07Speaker 03

  Harrison, according to him, Rodriguez was, him and Oliver North were involved in helping Posades Carriles escape uh, prison in Venezuela for planting the bomb on that Cuban plane.

• 58:25Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 58:26Speaker 03

  He said Oliver North was involved in that, along with Felix Rodriguez. These are things that.

• 58:31Danny Jones?

  Those are hefty accusations.

• 58:33Speaker 03

  These are things that I've never said before on camera. I mean, I'm going back now to Larry Harrison, the things that he divulged to me.

• 58:39Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:40Speaker 03

  And, I mean, this guy was CIA.

• 58:43Danny Jones?

  Was there any, like, hard evidence, like, pha- photographs or video of the torture of Kiki? Or any recordings, audio, anything?

• 58:53Speaker 03

  Yes, there were recordings. The whole torture thing was recorded.

• 58:58Danny Jones?

  You get your hands on that?

• 58:59Speaker 03

  I had the recordings, I listened to them.

• 59:02Danny Jones?

  How did you get them?

• 59:04Speaker 03

  We got them from, supposedly, from the CIA. But they were highly redacted.

• 59:09Danny Jones?

  Who gave, the CIA gave them to you?

• 59:11Speaker 03

  Well, some of them, and some of them we got other ways.

• 59:13Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 59:14Speaker 03

  We had five, uh, we had four, no, five, five recordings with transcripts. But what was interesting is that we had a transcript for which the CIA did not give us a recording.

• 59:35Speaker 03

  When I got the transcript and I read it, I went back to the CIA and I said, hey, I need a, I need a, I need a tape of that, a copy of the actual recording, and they wouldn't give it to us.

• 59:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 59:45Speaker 03

  And we never got it.

• 59:46Danny Jones?

  So like, how much farther did you push this?

• 59:51Speaker 03

  Well, the situation with the DEA was this, is that, okay, now let's go back to the Camarena case and how I got involved, if we can, Danny, please. So I get assigned to, first of all, I get sent, in 1987, I get sent to Mexico with full orders to arrest or eliminate those that were involved in Camarena's murder, or supposedly suspected of being involved in Camarena's murder. I have orders to, to arrest, of course, Ernesto Fonseca Carrillo, Carlos Quintero, Miguel Félix Gallardo, El Azul, Cochilo, and a list of, I get a list of people that I'm supposed to target.

• 1:00:36Speaker 03

  And my orders are, arrest him, or eliminate him.

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• 1:01:59Speaker 03

  Do whatever you need to do that. So I said, fine. So I went to Mexico, and I was involved in numerous shootouts. Numerous shootouts. As a matter of fact, I was involved in the longest shootout in the history of DEA, and I, I shoot out that lasted over, lasted over two hours in the jungles of Mexico, Sinaloa.

• 1:02:21Danny Jones?

  Jesus.

• 1:02:22Speaker 03

  That's the shootout that is alluded to in The Last Dark. The longest shootout in the history of DEA. I tried to go after these guys, and I even was ordered to kidnap other folks, which I did. And, uh, total secret. Finally, uh, Félix Gallardo gets fed up with me, and he decides that he's gonna have me murdered now. And CIA and DEA intercepted a lot of calls, where Gallardo was asking that I get picked up. And they tried to pick me up one time, but I wasn't with my family. They almost picked up my daughter and wife in Mato Grosso, Sinaloa.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  They chased them, and they were able to run to a, a, a house owned by some Americans that were friends of ours, and they shipped them out. But I stayed back in Mexico. Finally, they said, Hector, you're gonna need to get out. They're really looking to kill you. The, the cartels are looking to kill you. Félix Gallardo and, uh, Ernesto Fonseca, they want you. So that's when they evacuated me out of Mexico for my own safety. After being evacuated out of Mexico, that's when I get a call that they want me to run the Enrique Camarena murder investigation.

• 1:03:41Speaker 03

  And that's how I become supervisor of Operation Leyenda. After reporting into LA and into that, a position, I am flown back to Washington, where I sit there, face-to-face with the administrator, and basically asked me what I need to solve this case, because they didn't have any witnesses. And I told them, I'm gonna need a huge informant budget, I'm gonna need the cooperation of our immigration, and, uh, I'm gonna need Spanish-speaking agents that have experience working in Mexico.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  You have had all these people assigned to this investigation, New Yorkers and everything else, that don't speak Spanish. That's why they've gotten nowhere. We need people that have worked in Mexico, they know the culture, know the corruption. He said, you got it. Then he said, I want you to conduct an extraterritorial rendition.

• 1:04:42Danny Jones?

  Kidnapping.

• 1:04:44Speaker 03

  What is that? That's what I think. I didn't know. I said, what is that? He said, I kidnapped, and can you do that? And I says, yes. He said, what would it cost to get a suspect kidnapped? I said, it all depends who you want me to kidnap. If you want me to kidnap the president of Mexico, I said, it's gonna be expensive. He started laughing. He said, no, no, no, no, no. He said, we'd like for you to kidnap the doctor that injected drugs and tortured Camarena. He says, you know who he is? And I says, I don't know him, but I, I know him by name. He said, can you get him kidnapped? Or can you kidnap him? And I said, yes.

• 1:05:24Danny Jones?

  Who is this specifically?

• 1:05:26Speaker 03

  The director of the DEA, Jack Long. Who denies this, by the way.

• 1:05:31Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:05:32Speaker 03

  He denies it.

• 1:05:33Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 1:05:34Speaker 03

  And I said, I said, he said to me, he says, well, what would it cost to kidnap him? I said, not much. I says, why is it not much? Code of Law, man, you're $250,000, I can get it done. He says, really? And I says, yes. How soon can you get him done? I said, a week or two? He says, you can do that that fast? Yes. How are you gonna do it? Very simple. I know all the commandantes and all the generals in Mexico. I've worked with them, well, a lot of them. And we'll hire them to kidnap the doctor, like the traffickers hire them to work for them. They're like prostitutes, they work for money, they don't care what side they're on. He says, do it. I said, okay.

• 1:06:19Speaker 03

  So that's how I did it. I contacted my comandante, met him in Vegas, bought him dinner, bought him a prostitute. I told him, I said, how would you like to make $250,000? And he said, I'd love to. What do I, what do I have to do? Kidnap this doctor for me. He said, you got it, I'll do it. Just like that, that easy. And we did it. However...

• 1:06:41Danny Jones?

  Were you there when they kidnapped him?

• 1:06:42Speaker 03

  No, I was there to receive him.

• 1:06:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:06:45Speaker 03

  No, he did it all.

• 1:06:46Danny Jones?

  They brought him directly to you?

• 1:06:48Speaker 03

  We wanted, we wanted to camouflage it like it was done by concerned Mexicans that wanted to get rid of drug dealers. That's what we were gonna put out on the news. Well, we weren't involved, they, they, they, the Mexicans themselves did it, and they kicked him over the fence to us or whatever. But in this case, it wasn't kicked over the fence. They went and arrested him at his clinic, he was a gynecologist.

• 1:07:09Danny Jones?

  A what kind, a what?

• 1:07:11Speaker 03

  Gynecologist, female doctor.

• 1:07:13Danny Jones?

  A gynecologist, yeah.

• 1:07:14Speaker 03

  Gynecologist. And, uh, so they took him to the airport, they had hired a pilot, we had hired a pilot, and they flew him to El Paso. He, the plane landed, they never shut the engines off, they threw him off on the tarmac, and I ran up and arrested him, Dr. Alvarez Mashine. After we went to court and it was exposed to the world that the DEA and I, specifically me, had kidnapped a doctor, the Mexican government immediately issued a warrant for my arrest, which I had for 20 years in Mexico.

• 1:07:48Danny Jones?

  When did that expire?

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 1:07:52Danny Jones?

  How long ago did that expire?

• 1:07:54Speaker 03

  20 years.

• 1:07:55Danny Jones?

  How long ago did it expire?

• 1:07:56Speaker 03

  Oh, it's been a while now, uh, 2013, I believe.

• 1:07:59Danny Jones?

  So, when they, uh, when they kidnapped him, when they rendered this guy, this doctor, out of Mexico, and they threw him on a plane, they brought him to El Paso, right? And then you grabbed him, and what was the, you interrogate, I assume you interrogated him?

• 1:08:15Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:08:16Danny Jones?

  How did that go? What was that like?

• 1:08:18Speaker 03

  He cooperated? He said, yeah. He, he gave me a written statement that he was involved. But he, of course, protected himself. He said, yeah, I went, I was called to go check on this patient, and I checked him, and he was in bad shape, and, uh, I told Fonseca and Carlos Quintero that if we didn't get him to a hospital, he was gonna die. And, uh, Fonseca, Fonseca says, get the ambulance and get him to a hospital. Fonseca wanted to save him. And Carlos Quintero opposed it. So they had an argument, and this was corroborated by four people, Mashine and my three witnesses, there was an argument between Fonseca and Carlos Quintero, where Fonseca said, we gotta take him to a hospital, this guy's gonna die. And...

• 1:09:03Speaker 03

  Caro Quintero allegedly answered, "We don't care. They want him dead." "He cannot be taken to hospital." "He had been blindfolded and they had already taken the blindfolds off."

• 1:09:15Speaker 03

  And Fonseca got so upset, he says, "You idiot, they're gonna blame us." And he slapped Caro Quintero so hard, knocked him up off his feet. He says, "You idiot, we're gonna get blamed for this." "And your orders are further up." Further up, meaning the government of Mexico, Rodriguez and everybody else, and Bartolías, said that he should be let to die. "So I'm taking orders from higher people than you, Mr. Fonseca." And that's why Fonseca got mad, "Oh, now you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna, you're gonna be like, taking orders from somebody else," and that's when he slapped him.

• 1:09:49Danny Jones?

  And it was because they had taken his blindfold off?

• 1:09:51Speaker 03

  This has been testified to in court. I mean, we have already, like I said, three witnesses that saw this. Fonseca wanted to save Kiki. A lot of people don't know that. Because he knew it was gonna be a major problem. And he told Caro Quintero, "We are going to be blamed for this murder, you dummy." "He cannot die." And he said, "We can't expose him anymore." "He's seen us already. The blinds were off a day ago."

• 1:10:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:10:19Danny Jones?

  Um, and then something recently just happened with Caro Quintero, right? Like, a year ago?

• 1:10:25Speaker 03

  Well, Caro Quintero has been in and out of prisons in Mexico. He was just rearrested again about a year and a half ago. And about two months or so ago, he, along with nineteen others, or eighteen other Mexican cartel guys, were not extradited to the US. They were expelled. Expelled to the United States. And he is being held in New York City as we speak, and charged with CCE, Continual Criminal Enterprise charges, which carry a life term. And he's also been charged with a violation of RICO statutes. So

• 1:11:10Speaker 03

  he has not been brought to the Central District of California in LA, where the warrant for capital murder is still outstanding for his involvement. Excuse me, involvement of killing Enrique Camarena.

• 1:11:25Danny Jones?

  He has a warrant in LA for capital murder for Camarena?

• 1:11:27Speaker 03

  Yes, he does.

• 1:11:28Danny Jones?

  And he was, so what is the difference? What, what, what is, what does that mean? That he was not extradited, but he was expelled?

• 1:11:35Speaker 03

  Okay, when you're extradited, there's usually an agreement that you'll be extradited under certain conditions. And one of the conditions that Mexico always places is, "We'll extradite him if you don't give him the death penalty." Because Mexico does not believe in the death penalty. So therefore, they are charging him with CCE, which does not carry a death penalty sentence. Neither does RICO. So they were expelled, and because Caro Quintero was expelled and not extradited, that agreement doesn't exist. He can be tried for Kiki's murder, and he can, can definitely be sentenced to death.

• 1:12:22Danny Jones?

  But you don't think that's gonna happen?

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  I, I, I am, I am very perplexed as to why they would take him to New York on these lesser charges, and not bring him, excuse me, to Los Angeles to face the capital murder charges.

• 1:12:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  I suspect that maybe they're gonna try to hide this, and not bring him to trial on the Kiki Camarena murder charges. Because all this information that came out in the last Narc, and all this information that I'm giving you about US involvement in Kiki's murder, will probably come out.

• 1:13:02Speaker 03

  So I suspect that they're trying to keep this all under the carpet. Tell us, "Okay, he's been convicted, he's getting a life term, we're done with him." And forget the murder charge. I suspect that. They're gonna try to do that.

• 1:13:19Danny Jones?

  That does seem likely. Because they wouldn't want him to open his mouth. They wouldn't want any kind of evidence, or any kind of information pulled out that's gonna open that can of worms that goes back, that links back to Kiki.

• 1:13:29Speaker 03

  Well, imagine this. You put one of the, just one of the witnesses say, "You were there? You saw who interrogated Camarena? Yes. Did Caro Quintero interrogate Camarena? Yes. And who else interrogated Camarena? Felix Rodriguez." How's that gonna go?

• 1:13:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:46Speaker 03

  That's what they're, that's what they're trying to avoid.

• 1:13:48Danny Jones?

  Man, Felix is getting old. He's gotta, he's, he's gotta be in his, how old was he? In his nineties when we saw him, right? I mean, he was rough.

• 1:13:58Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:13:59Danny Jones?

  He was, you know, he's in a wheelchair, he's old, man. Very old. Yeah, a lot of those guys, we went to his, um, his museum down there. He has this, this whole museum dedicated to, like, the Bay of Pigs invasion. And he has, like, pictures of all these Cubans and stuff like that. And there's posters everywhere, like, pictures of Kennedy with, like, a slash through his face. They don't like Kennedy. And, um, what's this?

• 1:14:25Speaker 03

  He's eighty-five.

• 1:14:26Danny Jones?

  Oh, he's eighty-five, that's it?

• 1:14:28Speaker 03

  He looked ninety.

• 1:14:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, he's been through a lot, man. He's a, like, guy's seen some shit. As you very well know.

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Danny Jones?

  But, um, yeah, no, he seems to be like, you know, he was everywhere. Like, he was in Vietnam, obviously, you know, everything that you've just explained, you know, in Mexico and all these crazy operations. And, you know, the Cuban stuff with, you know, under Kennedy, like, the Bay of Pigs, and, uh, you know, this, it's hard to imagine, you know, what a guy like that has seen in his day. It's, um, a different breed. I don't think they make them, I don't think they, I don't think we're doing, you know, it's, it's hard to know, for sure. But it seems like that era in history, like, the sixties, seventies, and eighties, was like

• 1:15:20Danny Jones?

  the Wild West for intelligence operations and international crime smuggling, but,

• 1:15:28Danny Jones?

  and maybe I'm wrong, maybe all that stuff is still happening today. I think the difference is you just don't hear about it as much. It's not reported as much in the news today. I mean, there are, like, lots of journalists, like, independent journalists that are covering it, but, um, you know, you start to hear about stories like what you brought up in the last Narc, you know, long after it's happened, right? Kiki was murdered in the eighties.

• 1:15:51Speaker 03

  Eighty-five.

• 1:15:52Danny Jones?

  Eighty-five, right? So, you know, almost forty, pretty much, yeah, exactly forty years ago. So, you know, what are we gonna be learning about what's happening right now, in forty years from now? Because, you know, there is stuff coming out, like, this recent murder of this guy, El Mencho, and the kidnapping of, uh, El Mayo, and all this stuff. But you really have to pay close attention to, kind of, keep track of it. It's not reported on in the mainstream media.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  Well, my experience, because I was involved in kidnapping myself with the government. And I said it from day one, El Mayo Zambada was not kidnapped. He volunteered.

• 1:16:31Danny Jones?

  Why would he volunteer?

• 1:16:32Speaker 03

  He wasn't kidnapped.

• 1:16:34Danny Jones?

  Because you think he's been, he's been working with the CIA for a long time?

• 1:16:36Speaker 03

  I don't think so. I pretty much know that he was here. Yeah, because, look at the facts, Danny. He's flown in.

• 1:16:45Speaker 03

  There's fifty, at least fifty agents waiting for the landing of the plane.

• 1:16:53Speaker 03

  And the first information was that he had been tricked on the plane by Ed Chapo's son.

• 1:17:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:01Speaker 03

  Ismael Guzman Beltran, or whatever, Lopez, or whatever his name is. And the pilot escaped.

• 1:17:13Speaker 03

  What?

• 1:17:13Danny Jones?

  That's the official story.

• 1:17:15Speaker 03

  The pilot, the pilot escaped. Now, if DEA, and the FBI, and the CIA, and the, and the generals, and everybody in the government knows that this plane bringing El Mayo Zambada is landing there, how does a, a, the pilot bringing him in escape? That was the first story.

• 1:17:31Danny Jones?

  Where do they land?

• 1:17:32Speaker 03

  Uh, Teresa, something, or rather, little town, uh, south of El Paso there in Texas. It wasn't in El Paso. Santa Teresa.

• 1:17:43Danny Jones?

  Santa Teresa.

• 1:17:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the name of the little town where they landed. Okay.

• 1:17:51Speaker 03

  How, if the DEA and the CIA were not involved in the kidnapping, how did they know to wait for the plane to land there and when it was gonna land, number one? Number two, the Mexican government accused

• 1:18:09Speaker 03

  the US government of kidnapping El Mayo Zambada.

• 1:18:15Speaker 03

  Kenzal Osar, the ambassador, says, "No, we didn't, we were not involved in that operation at all. We did not kidnap Zambada." He's not lying. Zambada turned himself in.

• 1:18:29Speaker 03

  And the reason he turned himself in is because Zambada had been a DEA informant for years.

• 1:18:36Speaker 03

  Been working for the CIA and the DEA.

• 1:18:40Speaker 03

  Of course, they're not gonna say none of this. If you, I'm gonna remind you, when El Chapo was being tried,

• 1:18:48Speaker 03

  El Mayo Zambada was in Mexico, and he called his son, El Vicentio, who was being held in, in federal detention here.

• 1:18:59Speaker 03

  He used the DEA to go into Vicentio's cell and say, "Here, your dad wants to talk to you." Vicentio takes the call, and El Mayo Zambada tells him, "Cooperate with the US government. Testify against El Chapo Guzman." So El Vicentio, and El, and El Mayo Zambada's brother, El Rey, were the two major witnesses that testified against El Chapo Guzman, El Chapo Guzman's trial.

• 1:19:32Danny Jones?

  You're saying El Mayo got to them, got a DEA agent to walk a phone into the prison cell?

• 1:19:37Speaker 03

  Yes, sir. That's a fact.

• 1:19:38Danny Jones?

  And El Mayo told these guys to?

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  El Mayo told his son to cooperate with the US government and go ahead and testify.

• 1:19:48Danny Jones?

  Against El Chapo.

• 1:19:48Speaker 03

  Against El Chapo, who had been his right-hand man, in the Sinaloa cartel.

• 1:19:52Danny Jones?

  They both founded it together, right?

• 1:19:53Speaker 03

  Yes. So, now you tell me, why would El, I mean, El Mayo call the DEA to take the phone? Let the son talk?

• 1:20:05Danny Jones?

  Because he has a relationship.

• 1:20:06Speaker 03

  And not only that, the DEA was behind getting El Mayo to tell these people to cooperate

• 1:20:12Speaker 03

  against El Chapo, so they could convict El Chapo. I mean, I know how it works. You're not gonna kid me. All right? So, no. What happened was, El Mayo Zambada decided that he wanted to get out of Dodge. It's getting too hot now with a war with El Mencho, with the Sinaloa Nueva Generación cartel, and the Sinaloa cartel, because they were at war with each other. He decides to get out.

• 1:20:37Speaker 03

  His brother's already a cooperating witness, and so is his son. So, he decides he's gonna turn himself in and cooperate with the US government.

• 1:20:50Speaker 03

  The reason it has to be like this, Dan, is because, number one, the ambassador, Ken Salazar, is not gonna lie out to the public and say that, that we were not involved in the kidnapping, which we were not, because it wasn't a kidnapping. And he told the president of Mexico, Claudia Scheinbaum, we were not involved in that. He's not lying. El Chapo decides that he's going to cooperate, and he basically sets up this scenario that he's being kidnapped by El Chapo's son, who turned him in, who was on the plane with him, and

• 1:21:30Speaker 03

  basically surrendered there. But here's the thing, what's interesting now, currently in the Mexican news is, guess what? They found the pilot.

• 1:21:39Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah?

• 1:21:40Speaker 03

  The Mexican government found the pilot.

• 1:21:43Danny Jones?

  What'd he say?

• 1:21:45Speaker 03

  He said he wanted to be turned over to the United States. And guess what they did a couple, two days ago?

• 1:21:51Danny Jones?

  What?

• 1:21:52Speaker 03

  The pilot is here again.

• 1:21:54Danny Jones?

  He's here in the US? Can you find this, Steve? Is this reported on?

• 1:21:58Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:22:00Speaker 06

  Is it Maro Alberto Nunez Ojeda?

• 1:22:03Speaker 03

  Yes. I believe that's the pilot, yes.

• 1:22:05Danny Jones?

  So,

• 1:22:07Danny Jones?

  what, now?

• 1:22:08Speaker 03

  What do you make of it? You're an intelligent guy. What do you make of all this? Why would Mexico not interrogate him from A through Z on El Mayo's kidnapping, or El Mayo's whatever? He was involved from the beginning to the end, the pilot. We supposedly let him go. He goes back to Mexico. The Mexican government now has just picked him up, and now they deport him over here without interrogating him about how El Mayo got here.

• 1:22:38Speaker 03

  It doesn't make sense, does it?

• 1:22:41Danny Jones?

  You know, unless, unless people in the Mexican government are just taking bribes to, you know?

• 1:22:47Speaker 03

  Something is not wrong with this picture. Something is very wrong with this picture, I'm saying. Something's up. Why would the Mexican government, who supposedly is upset and saying, well, why are they making Mexican sovereignty by kidnapping El Mayo? They made all those accusations against the US. When they get the pilot that knows everything, they don't even interrogate him or investigate him. They send him back to the US.

• 1:23:13Danny Jones?

  What do you make of that? What, what do you think?

• 1:23:16Speaker 03

  I think, I firmly believe that El Mayo surrendered himself. They made this story up that he was kidnapped and all of that, which he was, and he surrendered himself. And I believe that...

• 1:23:28Danny Jones?

  Because it was getting too hot. He didn't want to deal with it anymore. He wanted, he wanted to eject.

• 1:23:31Speaker 03

  Not only that, he became a government. He testified against all these former presidents he paid off. And he provided a lot of testimony against a big guy by the name of Maduro.

• 1:23:45Danny Jones?

  El Mayo did?

• 1:23:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23:46Danny Jones?

  He gave up shit on Maduro?

• 1:23:47Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23:51Speaker 03

  Him and others. And then all of a sudden, Maduro's picked up after El Mayo came in. Remember, El Mayo was the biggest drug dealer in the world.

• 1:24:02Speaker 03

  Okay? And now everything's so quiet on El Mayo, you don't hear anything about El Mayo.

• 1:24:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but aren't his, isn't his son now running shit?

• 1:24:11Speaker 03

  El Mayo Flaco supposedly was going to steal the Sinaloa cartel over there.

• 1:24:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And they're like in a little civil war with Los Chapitos, right?

• 1:24:19Speaker 03

  Los Chapitos, who have become part of the Nueva Generación cartel.

• 1:24:25Speaker 03

  And...

• 1:24:27Danny Jones?

  Okay, this is what Stephen found. The pilot of the plane was arrested in Mexico last year and handed over to US authorities.

• 1:24:35Danny Jones?

  At Wednesday's press conference, another FG, okay, uh, who's Boone? Boone is...

• 1:24:42Speaker 06

  He, he's, he's mentioned earlier in this article.

• 1:24:45Danny Jones?

  Okay, yeah, I don't know who the hell Boone is. Boone said that Nunez was, okay, Nunez, the pilot, was deported to Mexico after flying the plane to the United States, and he subsequently continued committing crimes in Mexico and tells for arrest. He said that Mexican authorities transferred Nunez to the United States after his arrest. Okay.

• 1:25:04Danny Jones?

  The pilot was apparently released after landing in New Mexico and allowed to return to Mexico.

• 1:25:11Speaker 03

  Let me ask you. Let me make a comment here. Very important comment. A big observation here. Why would we release him to Mexico

• 1:25:22Speaker 03

  after supposedly he, he participated in kidnapping El Mayo? And then the Mexican government deported him back to us.

• 1:25:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:25:32Speaker 03

  Why wasn't he charged with anything?

• 1:25:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:34Speaker 03

  That's why I say El Mayo surrendered himself. There was no kidnapping.

• 1:25:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:39Speaker 03

  If you didn't kidnap him, why would you arrest a pilot?

• 1:25:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but you seem like, El Mayo, I mean, this guy's gotta have billions of dollars, right?

• 1:25:46Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:25:46Danny Jones?

  Like, why would you, why wouldn't you just take off to like, I don't know, a foreign country or some island somewhere, like in the Mediterranean, or just disappear? Why surrender yourself to the US?

• 1:25:59Speaker 03

  His whole family's over here.

• 1:26:02Speaker 03

  Mayo's son's over here. Everybody's here.

• 1:26:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  Why would he stay in Mexico and be, and be subject to being killed by the Nueva Generación cartel or betrayed by the Mexican government? So, before the Mexican government betrayed him, he betrayed them. He came over here. Here I am.

• 1:26:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah, made a deal. Made a deal. Leave, leave my family alone.

• 1:26:23Speaker 03

  Are you following why I say that he was not kidnapped?

• 1:26:25Danny Jones?

  Of course.

• 1:26:27Speaker 03

  If he was kidnapped, I did kidnap him. There was a warrant for my arrest. The, the pilot that I used to kidnap, Dr. Machine, was interrogated and beaten to death in Mexico. He died during the interrogation. The pilot that brought Machine over. This pilot just is let go?

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  How many FBI and DEA agents were there waiting for the, waiting for the plane to land with El Mayo? Thirty, forty of them?

• 1:26:52Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:26:53Speaker 03

  And the pilot just, oh, let him go?

• 1:26:55Danny Jones?

  And do you think El Chapo's son was on the plane to provide the cover story?

• 1:26:59Speaker 03

  Yes, he was. He was on the plane.

• 1:27:03Danny Jones?

  And specifically just for the cover story?

• 1:27:05Speaker 03

  Yes. And he's also now a cooperating witness.

• 1:27:08Danny Jones?

  It's crazy how, how long and how deep the CIA and DEA has been working with the cartels and how like synergistic that whole operation has been.

• 1:27:20Speaker 03

  Absolutely. And currently,

• 1:27:25Speaker 03

  the US has indicted a former governor of Sinaloa, Ruben Rochamora. They have a warrant for his arrest. And they've asked Mexico to extradite him specifically, directly to Claudia Machinebaum, the president of Mexico. And she refuses to extradite him. She's protecting him, stating that she needs evidence of his involvement in drug trafficking.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  And the US is saying, no, under the extradition treaty, we have a warrant. Your duty is bound to turn him over. And she says, I'm not turning him over. She's protecting him. And this guy, okay, was involved in murders and everything else. He's a major, major narco-político that goes between the government of Mexico and the cartels. He's the one that funded a lot of money, cartel money, to a former president, López Obrador's campaign, and also allegedly had basically provided millions of dollars towards Scheinbaum's campaign. And there's information also that it's alleged that the Chapitos also gave Scheinbaum, the president of Mexico, twenty-one million dollars.

• 1:28:41Speaker 03

  So, the whole Mexican government is corrupt. Now...

• 1:28:47Speaker 03

  Donald Trump was very correct in declaring terrorist organizations. Because the Mexican drug cartels have killed way more thousands of Americans than Al Qaeda and Hamas. Every year, over a hundred thousand Americans die of fentanyl overdoses.

• 1:29:12Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. Hasn't that been declining though?

• 1:29:15Speaker 03

  Huh?

• 1:29:15Danny Jones?

  Hasn't that number been declining? I saw something recently.

• 1:29:18Speaker 03

  Well, maybe, but there's still a lot of people that are using it. Not everybody's dying.

• 1:29:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:29:22Speaker 03

  But excuse me, I want to make a point here on your show. I want to make a point that the Chinese have started or have filed or initiated a silent war against Americans by providing the precursors and the training of how to make fentanyl. They have declared war on us and over a hundred thousand Americans die at an average of fentanyl overdoses every year.

• 1:29:53Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  Now, and when you investigate that, it is not the Yakuza and the Chinese criminal elements that have basically aligned themselves with the cartels of Mexico, it's the CCP, the Chinese Communist Party. They are the ones that are basically providing the Mexicans with all this stuff. And also weapons. And talking about weapons, a lot of the weapons that the cartels get, like the drones that the cartels have, all the very sophisticated military weapons that the cartels now possess were sold to them by the Ukrainians, who are also very corrupt.

• 1:30:32Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 1:30:33Speaker 03

  And that's no secret. So what are we doing about all those issues? But I will state, then, let's not kid ourselves. You know, these countries like Venezuela, Cuba, uh, Mexico now, China, they're all against us. They hate democracy. They're all socialist communist countries. And they hate us. And they declared war on us. And I'll make a statement here that was much, I guess, stated or put out by Fidel Castro was, we are going to destroy the United States and we don't have to fire one bullet destroying

• 1:31:18Speaker 03

  them. Drugs.

• 1:31:20Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:31:21Speaker 03

  And all these people that think they're cool by using drugs and everything else are only contributing to their destruction and the destruction of our country. It's not cool to be out there dealing drugs and using drugs and everything else. You're only destroying yourself, guys and girls.

• 1:31:40Danny Jones?

  What do you think about the, the argument that legalizing and regulating these drugs would, would destroy these cartels? Cause there's other countries that have done that and they've been taking that money and then invested that into like rehabilitation centers and, you know, doctors and all kinds of things. And it, there's been like strong arguments made that that could be a huge deterrent to slow down and to stop the violence. And, you know, also, you know, you can getting a lot of money by regulating this stuff and you're, you're.

• 1:32:11Speaker 03

  My position on that is that I agree that law enforcement hasn't worked. And I agree, and I'm one of the biggest supporters of drug addicts shouldn't be arrested. Drug addicts are sick people that are being manipulated, used by the cartels to make money.

• 1:32:36Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:32:36Speaker 03

  Okay. I don't advocate at all the arrest of people that use drugs. People that use drugs are basically sick people that, drug addiction is a disease, Danny. And I feel sorry for those people that are out there homeless in the parks. If you look at all those homeless in the parks of LA, the big cities.

• 1:33:02Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. A lot of them veterans too.

• 1:33:04Speaker 03

  Ninety nine point nine of them are drug addicts.

• 1:33:08Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:09Speaker 03

  They, they're, they're, they're, they're not there. Those are the victims, the real victims of these cartels. And yes, I agree with you that maybe law enforcement is not the answer. But making them illegal, I don't know about that. I, I don't know how that would work because I think we need to attack it more by education.

• 1:33:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally.

• 1:33:39Speaker 03

  And taking care of our, taking care of our addicts, man. Don't put them in jail.

• 1:33:43Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:44Speaker 03

  You're out, they're out there being homeless. And look at, they're from all, they're from all races and multi-nominations, from all classes. You have kids of very rich people that are out there homeless because they're, they're drug addicted.

• 1:33:56Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:33:57Speaker 03

  And I am the biggest supporter of education and finding, trying to find other means other than just throw cuffs on everybody and arrest everybody.

• 1:34:06Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:34:07Speaker 03

  I, I don't believe in that. Especially, I couldn't even do my job at the end.

• 1:34:13Danny Jones?

  And if we did do that, if we did legalize that stuff or decriminalize, you know, weed and cocaine and all the biggest drugs that are trafficked across the border into the US for the cartels, and I'm sure that, you know, is a huge portion of their revenue. Um, how, would that really stop them? You know, because I know they're into a lot of other stuff. They're into like avocados. I know a lot of them are into like oil, like transporting oil and shit. Like they're into a lot of legitimate businesses, providing security for Chinese companies that are extracting lithium and shit in Mexico. Like they're, they're, they're everywhere. It's not just the drugs.

• 1:34:53Speaker 03

  Right. They're into everything. But here's one of the things now, let's imagine, and I've been to seminars, another DEA, where we, we did this, we, we, we brought up scenarios. Okay, let's say that drugs are legitimate in the United States. They legalize all drugs. And you're going to have a party at your house. And you're going to invite everybody to your party and you're going to ask them, what kind of beer do you like? I like Coors. Uh, you like cocaine? Yeah, I have a little Coke there for me. Um, how about heroin? Do you like a little heroin? It's legal? I can get some heroin if you want to shoot up here at my party.

• 1:35:30Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:35:33Speaker 03

  Okay, let's all have fun. Drugs are legal, we'll use them all. I'll get heroin, I'll get cocaine, I'll get, uh, whatever, meth, whatever you guys want. It's going to be a haven for attorneys, dude. Because if somebody overdoses and dies at your house, I'm going to sue you.

• 1:35:51Danny Jones?

  Hmm. Yeah, that's where the education comes in.

• 1:35:54Speaker 03

  What are you going to have, nurses and doctors at your parties to make sure that nobody shoots up too much heroin and dies?

• 1:35:59Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:35:59Speaker 03

  It doesn't make sense.

• 1:36:00Danny Jones?

  Well, you need the education. The education is a huge part of it. People need to be aware of this stuff.

• 1:36:04Speaker 03

  And that's where I'm going. You need the education. I don't think, honestly, that one thing or another is going to work. I think a combination, some law enforcement, not to the extent that we have it now, education and rehabilitation. We need to concentrate more on just putting people in jail and, and throwing cuffs on people.

• 1:36:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:36:26Speaker 03

  Okay. But unfortunately, our country is also corrupt.

• 1:36:30Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:36:32Speaker 03

  And wherever there's money, there's greed, there's going to be corrupt politicians, corrupt drug dealers, what have you. At the end of my career, I couldn't work anymore because I was at a very high level in my, in my agency and I knew that the CIA was bringing in tons of cocaine. We seized some of these CIA planes with cocaine and money and arrested the pilots. And guess what? We were ordered to give them back their cocaine, call the US Marshals, release the pilot and give them their money back because it was a CIA operation. Okay? But yet, then they tell Hector Perez, see that white kid over there?

• 1:37:17Speaker 03

  He's selling ounces of coke, go arrest him.

• 1:37:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:20Speaker 03

  I go arrest that kid, he gets fifteen, twenty years in prison. But I just let another guy go with twenty tons of it.

• 1:37:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:37:27Speaker 03

  Okay? And I knew, and we, the DEA knew, that this shipment of cocaine.

• 1:37:33Danny Jones?

  Well, you know, it's funny, you know, you, you, it's not funny, but you lay all this out, but, you know, and at the same time, you say all these countries, these South American countries, you know, like Cuba and Venezuela, they hate democracy.

• 1:37:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:44Danny Jones?

  Well, at least they're not faking it. The people who run this country also hate democracy. They just pretend that they don't. They pretend that we live in a democracy. We don't fucking get to vote on shit. They're going to do whatever they want to do.

• 1:37:56Speaker 03

  Exactly. And that's where I'm at. And that's why I'm here, because I'm exposing the corruption. I don't agree with, we're the cleanest country in the world. I've, I've, I've got interviewed a lot by Mexican TV stations and I always say, yeah, Mexico is corrupt. Yeah, Mexico is a corrupt state. Yeah, Mexico is being robbed by the cartels. But guess what, folks? The US can give Mexicans a lesson on corruption. We are as corrupt or more corrupt than Mexico. And I've stated it.

• 1:38:23Danny Jones?

  And we depend on Mexico too, right?

• 1:38:25Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:38:26Danny Jones?

  We depend on them for a, a lot of the, like, a lot of our biggest companies depend on them.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  In this country, in this country, if you don't pay your taxes, you know what's going to happen to you.

• 1:38:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:36Speaker 03

  But yeah, they take your taxes and they steal them. Look at what they've done with all the, uh, uh, the situation in, uh, in Minnesota. The NGOs, they, they say that, that it's, that they're funding the money to buy condoms for African states. You think that money's really going to buy condoms?

• 1:38:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:38:54Speaker 03

  It's just going there and it's being brought back to them.

• 1:38:55Danny Jones?

  Or to, you know, or to genocide people in Gaza for another country, Israel, to do a war over there or to invade Iran. I don't think anyone voted for their tax money to go over to the middle fucking east.

• 1:39:06Speaker 03

  Think how rich we are. Think of all the billions that they've stolen and we still haven't broken the country. We are totally corrupt, totally corrupt.

• 1:39:15Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:16Speaker 03

  You know, and it, and, and, and, and I'm not here saying that the Democrats are corrupt, the Republicans are corrupt. They're both corrupt.

• 1:39:27Danny Jones?

  Two sides of the same coin.

• 1:39:28Speaker 03

  One of the things that we see is, okay, we have identified all these GMOs and all this corruption going on and all this stealing of American tax dollars. Who has gone to jail? Hardly anybody of significance.

• 1:39:44Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:39:46Speaker 03

  We can prove that this, all this billions of tax dollars have been stolen, siphoned.

• 1:39:56Speaker 03

  Who is being held accountable? No one.

• 1:40:02Speaker 03

  In LA, in California, just two or three months ago, they, they found out that, I forget, $24 billion had gone to build homes for the, for the homeless.

• 1:40:16Speaker 03

  They built two townhouses and the two companies, construction companies, were charged with stealing millions of dollars.

• 1:40:23Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:40:24Speaker 03

  They built two townhomes.

• 1:40:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:40:26Speaker 03

  But yet they got like, I don't know how many million, three or four million dollars, maybe more than that, but because in LA, one house is cost you a million dollars in LA.

• 1:40:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, like a one bedroom house.

• 1:40:36Speaker 03

  Or maybe what, 40, 50 million, I don't know how much it's sold.

• 1:40:39Danny Jones?

  It's insane, yeah.

• 1:40:39Speaker 03

  They just arrested the owners of two construction companies for stealing all that tax money.

• 1:40:44Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:40:45Speaker 03

  And that's just those two companies. I mean, wait till they get into, you know, hospice and Medicare and childcare and all the millions of dollars that go to these things. They're gonna find out that most of them are like in Minnesota.

• 1:40:59Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  They don't even exist.

• 1:41:02Danny Jones?

  Um, hold that thought. I want to go more into this stuff that's happening in Mexico right now, but I gotta take a leak real quick.

• 1:41:07Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:41:07Danny Jones?

  So we'll be right back. Going back to, um, the Kiki Camarena thing. You were mentioning to me just off camera a minute ago, how you were getting attacked from the people who were above Kiki. And there was constantly this sort of weird recruitment process that was happening back, or not necessarily, it wasn't going from the DIA to the CIA, but the CIA was always trying to recruit people in the DEA. Is that correct?

• 1:41:38Speaker 03

  Yes, uh, the CIA infiltrated the DEA with CIA operatives.

• 1:41:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:41:49Speaker 03

  Basically, when I was in charge of the Camarena, oh, no, when I was in charge of the Masatlans Sinaloa DEA office in Mexico, agents arrived, supposedly sent to work for me, by DEA headquarters, and they were assigned to me as DEA agents. Later I found out that they were not DEA agents. They were undercover CIA operatives being brought into Mexico as DEA agents. But with the DEA, even I as a supervisor, were never told they were CIA. They were spies within the DEA.

• 1:42:32Speaker 03

  Not only that, the CIA always wanted to recruit DEA agents to become like sources of theirs and offered us payment. They offered me $3,500 to become like a CIA, uh, contract worker. And I asked, okay, what would I be getting paid for? What would I have to do? And they told me that I would have to devolve all of my sources of information to them and also our drug operations to whoever was going to be my control CIA operative. But I could keep my job as a CIA supervisor. And a lot of the DEA agents took those jobs and took those positions.

• 1:43:17Speaker 03

  So there were DEA guys that were under CIA payroll.

• 1:43:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:24Speaker 03

  And then there were others that were actually CIA operatives that were brought in undercover into the DEA, DEA as DEA special agents.

• 1:43:35Speaker 03

  Question that you probably have right now, why would they do this? Is because certain countries would only allow, let's say, 10 CIA operatives to work out of the embassies out of their country.

• 1:43:48Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:43:49Speaker 03

  But the CIA would bring them in as DEA agents, but they were not DEA agents. They were CIA operatives. And then there was those DEA agents that were recruited as basically the contract workers for the CIA while they'd be DEA agents.

• 1:44:04Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. And also, so the CIA, I'm sure, you know, it's, it's, it makes a lot of sense why they would want to do that. There's, there's so many reasons. I mean, they would want to, I'm sure they'd want, would want to keep track of everything the DIA is investigating to make sure that the DEA stays away from them. You know what I mean? They don't want, they don't want the DEA starting to, you know, get some sort of a, a tip and uncover some crazy CIA operation or some CIA front that's happening. Because, you know, as you alluded to earlier, that the CIA operates on a invisible layer where they need to get shit done, they need to stay, keep everything a secret. And they don't need some crazy, you know, wild cowboy DEA guy coming and blowing up their spot.

• 1:44:48Speaker 03

  Right. And another thing is that, um, like the CIA, like the DEA, they have different units that are compartmentalized. That one unit doesn't know what the other unit's doing.

• 1:45:01Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 1:45:01Speaker 03

  So if you were to ask, um, just an ordinary DEA agent that was working when I was working there, what do you think about Hector doing these black operations, kidnapping people and all this other stuff? He would say, we don't do that.

• 1:45:15Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  We don't do it. I don't believe we do that because they're innocent. They were never brought into these special units. The CIA's got the same thing. There are CIA operatives that swear that the CIA doesn't do anything corrupt because they're not assigned to those units.

• 1:45:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:35Speaker 03

  A lot of, a lot of agents in the DEA say, I, I don't know anything about that or what Hector did or whatever.

• 1:45:41Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:41Speaker 03

  Because.

• 1:45:42Danny Jones?

  Or they've never heard of anything like that ever happening.

• 1:45:44Speaker 03

  Never heard of it.

• 1:45:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:45:45Speaker 03

  Because we were sworn to secrecy, we were sworn not to divulge what we were doing. Operationally, I only reported to the director of the DEA. I didn't even report to a special agent in charge of a division. I went straight to the, to the, to the top, to the director of the DEA, I had a direct line. So a lot of the things we were doing were very secretive and other agents didn't know what we were doing. And we were not allowed to discuss what we were doing with our other DEA friends. They would, they would, friends would ask me at parties, hey, what's going on with this? I said, I can't talk about it, dude, you know, but everything's, everything's cool. We're doing our job, we're getting there, but I can't tell you anything. I'm, I'm not allowed to, you know that.

• 1:46:30Danny Jones?

  How much do you think the director of the DEA knew about this stuff happening? And do you think that there was any sort of fuckery happening between the CIA and the director of the DEA?

• 1:46:42Speaker 03

  Yes, uh, as a matter of fact, the director of the CIA, Jagon, had been assigned to, um, anti-terrorist unit within the CIA as an FBI agent. So he basically had to have known a lot of stuff that the CIA was doing.

• 1:46:57Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:46:59Danny Jones?

  And what about people that were like closer to Kiki or around Kiki, working with him?

• 1:47:04Danny Jones?

  Do you think any of those guys knew or were working for the CIA as well?

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  They didn't know. I didn't even know. And I had CIA guys in my, in my, in my office and I didn't know they were CIA.

• 1:47:17Danny Jones?

  What about Kiki's boss?

• 1:47:19Speaker 03

  Kiki's boss was, I believe, I believe, was one of those DEA guys that was recruited and on that CIA payroll. Because he was the one that actually, um, from my sources, was involved in, involved in planning the kidnapping of Kiki Camarena along with Felix Rodriguez and, I understand, Oliver North.

• 1:47:41Danny Jones?

  Did you ever interview him?

• 1:47:43Speaker 03

  Felix Rodriguez?

• 1:47:44Danny Jones?

  No, no, no, I'm sorry. Uh, did you ever interview Kiki's boss at the time?

• 1:47:48Speaker 03

  No, he wouldn't talk to me.

• 1:47:49Danny Jones?

  No.

• 1:47:50Speaker 03

  No, he wouldn't talk to me. He hates me.

• 1:47:52Danny Jones?

  Is he still alive?

• 1:47:53Speaker 03

  Yes, he is.

• 1:47:58Danny Jones?

  Why would he hate you for trying to solve the murder?

• 1:48:02Speaker 03

  Because he's corrupt.

• 1:48:03Danny Jones?

  Of Kiki Camarena.

• 1:48:03Speaker 03

  He was taking money from the cartel guys and he knows that, I know it.

• 1:48:06Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:07Speaker 03

  He took money from Fonseca and he took money from Carl Quintero.

• 1:48:12Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:15Speaker 03

  As a matter of fact, I've heard the interrogation tapes where Kiki's been interrogated. And.

• 1:48:24Danny Jones?

  By who?

• 1:48:26Speaker 03

  By the cartel guys.

• 1:48:27Danny Jones?

  By, oh, okay, yeah.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Rodriguez, the cartel guys and the people that interrogated Camarena during his torture.

• 1:48:34Speaker 03

  And Carl Quintero asked Kiki, he says, why did you betray me? I sent you money. It's right in the, in the transcripts of the Camarena transcripts and the tapes. And Kiki answers, you didn't send me any money. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 1:48:53Speaker 03

  You, I never, I don't know what you're talking about. I never got money from you. I didn't betray you. Carl Quintero, Camarena, right on tape.

• 1:49:02Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:49:05Danny Jones?

  Who has provided the most pushback against you for this, for the last narc? Like who, who, who's been the most outspoken opponent to this idea or this theory that you've come up with? That, you know, that Felix was involved with this and this, you know, uncovering this whole operation behind the scenes? Has there been anyone high level that has come out and like accused you of, of lying and making this story up other than the American government?

• 1:49:32Speaker 03

  Jagon, the director of DEA.

• 1:49:36Danny Jones?

  At the time.

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  At the time, and continues to say that it's just all a lie.

• 1:49:40Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  Remember where he came from? Before he came into DEA to become DEA Director.

• 1:49:48Speaker 03

  He was assigned to the CIA.

• 1:49:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, he was in the CIA before he got into the DEA.

• 1:49:53Speaker 03

  He was an FBI agent. Basically, working. At Langley CIA Headquarters against anti-terrorism, but he was a DEA. Not assigned to work with the CIA. That's where he came from.

• 1:50:08Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  So he's been very vocal about saying that I'm lying. And he uses a reporter by the name of Elaine Shannon. Uses her voice, she's a writer and reporter, to say that it's all a lie.

• 1:50:24Speaker 03

  And here's my pushback on them.

• 1:50:27Speaker 03

  I had three witnesses.

• 1:50:30Speaker 03

  That I recruited. That were at the scene. That saw who interrogated Camarena and what Camarena was asked. And I also have the transcripts. Okay. And they all say that Felix Rodriguez, CIA. Was one of the main interrogators of Camarena.

• 1:50:51Speaker 03

  The detractors of mine, the ones that say that this is not true.

• 1:50:56Speaker 03

  Don't have one witness that was there that can say that. The witnesses. That I recruited are telling a lie.

• 1:51:05Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:51:05Speaker 03

  So if.

• 1:51:08Speaker 03

  I would like for the detractors and the naysayers to at least say, we have two or three guys that were also there and they're saying your.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  Your guys are lying.

• 1:51:17Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:51:17Speaker 03

  Not one.

• 1:51:20Speaker 03

  So how can they say that it's not true? Who's telling them that was there that's not true?

• 1:51:24Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:51:25Speaker 03

  Nobody that I know of.

• 1:51:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:51:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, in today's day and age, I just think that. I don't think that anyone with. An ounce of. Reason would be able to argue against your whole case and your, the whole story of the last narc. I mean, it's.

• 1:51:48Danny Jones?

  It really. As tragic as it is, it pales in comparison to all of the other atrocities, some of the other atrocities that. You know, we basically know the US government is guilty of and complicit in. Where there's just no analysis, no answers given. They just sort of throw their hands up and then the internet just argues about it, you know, like, like all of, all the other things that that are, that happen all the time. That, you know, all the crimes that the US government commits. It's, um, it's just kind of like the norm now. Right? Like people, I feel like people, especially in my age group are kind of used to this. And they kind of know this is the MO of CIA.

• 1:52:31Speaker 03

  Well, one of the major things that. That I've come across is people say, well, Felix Rodriguez says. That he wasn't there. That Felix Rodriguez.

• 1:52:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:43Speaker 03

  Was delivering what Alahara.

• 1:52:44Danny Jones?

  He told me he was in Miami that day.

• 1:52:46Speaker 03

  Okay. But here's the thing.

• 1:52:50Speaker 03

  Until now, you didn't know that Rodriguez had been accused of smuggling. As a CIA operative, tons of cocaine by pilot Terry Reed.

• 1:53:01Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:53:02Speaker 03

  I would like for you to confront Rodriguez and Terry Reed, or I'd like to confront him and say, okay, you wrote a book saying this guy was smuggling tons of cocaine. I don't want Alahara where Kiki was killed.

• 1:53:12Danny Jones?

  Is Terry Reed still alive?

• 1:53:13Speaker 03

  Yes. He's still alive. He wrote a book, it's called it Compromised. The whole story of how Rodriguez was smuggling in tons of cocaine and Rodriguez is like a hero. Oh, I captured Che Guevara, I'm a hero.

• 1:53:26Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:53:26Speaker 03

  Come on. And that's another thing, he didn't capture Che Guevara. I interviewed, uh, General Molina and Tehran, who were involved in the whole capture of Che Guevara.

• 1:53:37Danny Jones?

  Well, there was some Bolivian guerrilla forces that captured him, right? He just like came in and like tried to do an interview with him.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  He was at a, at a, at a, at another location called, um. Santa Cruz, a little village of Santa Cruz.

• 1:53:50Speaker 03

  Um. Che Guevara was captured in Valle Grande, which is about a two hour flight from where Rodriguez was. They capture him.

• 1:53:59Danny Jones?

  In Bolivia, right?

• 1:54:00Speaker 03

  In Bolivia, the, the, the, the Bolivian army captures him.

• 1:54:04Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:54:05Speaker 03

  He has not sustained mortal wounds. He's shot in, in the stomach and the leg. He's taken to a schoolroom where he's being held. They call Felix Rodriguez, he flies in by helicopter.

• 1:54:16Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:54:18Speaker 03

  And I have interviewed the guy that actually killed Che Guevara.

• 1:54:22Danny Jones?

  Who actually shot him?

• 1:54:23Speaker 03

  Who actually shot Che Guevara. Okay, the guy that he, that Rodriguez ordered to kill him.

• 1:54:28Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:54:29Speaker 03

  They, when Rodriguez was there. Che Guevara was alive, he tried to interrogate him.

• 1:54:35Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:54:36Speaker 03

  And Rodriguez spit in his face. I mean, Guevara spit in Rodriguez's face. And told him, get out of here, gusano, which means worm, never talk to you. So according to Tehran, who was ordered to kill, uh, Che Guevara. Rodriguez told him, shoot him from the neck down, so his words will appeal, appear like he got him in battle, but kill him.

• 1:54:57Danny Jones?

  Right, exactly.

• 1:54:58Speaker 03

  He said he shot him and then Rodriguez came back in.

• 1:55:00Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:55:00Speaker 03

  That's a real story.

• 1:55:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's the way, I think that's the way that Felix told it to me as well.

• 1:55:05Speaker 03

  Okay, he wa, he didn't pull the trigger.

• 1:55:07Danny Jones?

  He didn't tell me he pulled the trigger, no.

• 1:55:09Speaker 03

  No.

• 1:55:09Danny Jones?

  He said he ordered it.

• 1:55:09Speaker 03

  He ordered Tehran to, to kill.

• 1:55:11Danny Jones?

  Exactly, yeah, he told me that.

• 1:55:12Speaker 03

  Right. And, and it, he was, he was never. He never interviewed Che Guevara, Guevara hated Rodriguez, he wasn't going to talk to him. He spit in his face and says, get out of here, worm, I'm not going to talk to you.

• 1:55:22Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. He did say something, though, he said that Che Guevara said, like, at least, he answered one or two of his questions. But he said, he did say that he was not. Willing to talk to him, didn't want to say anything. But he did. I can't remember exactly what he said, but he, he did say that, um.

• 1:55:42Danny Jones?

  He did say that he got at least one or two things out of him.

• 1:55:45Speaker 03

  Right.

• 1:55:46Danny Jones?

  I can't remember, but.

• 1:55:47Speaker 03

  So I did, in doing my investigation of Rodriguez, I actually flew to Bolivia and interrogated. Uh, Tehran and, uh, the general that was in charge of, of the unit that captured, uh, Che Guevara. I did. So that's what I learned. So what's there to be a big hero about?

• 1:56:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:04Speaker 03

  That he goes over and tries to interrogate him and then later, oh, he's the guy that captured Che Guevara?

• 1:56:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:08Speaker 03

  Give me a break.

• 1:56:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, he tried to interview him and then just like did a photo op with him.

• 1:56:11Speaker 03

  That, that's the extent of it.

• 1:56:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:14Speaker 03

  But, um, going back, yeah, the CIA was very much involved with the DEA. The CIA had agents in the DEA secretly put in by them. Headquarters DEA knew it. And most of them ended up in. The CIA operatives that were brought into the DEA with DEA credentials and badges.

• 1:56:37Speaker 03

  Uh, in foreign assignments, like Mexico, Bolivia, Colombia, and those places.

• 1:56:43Danny Jones?

  Fast forwarding to where we are today, how much different is it in Mexico today as far as like the DEA and the CIA footprint? Do you think?

• 1:56:52Speaker 03

  Uh. I don't know, uh, if, if, if, if things had gotten better when I was there, there was a lot of distrust.

• 1:57:02Speaker 03

  And dislike of each other, we had, uh, they had a deputy towards us, they didn't like us. I didn't like working for them, even though I did work with them. The way it worked with the DEA is I would get a call and say, uh. Report to such, such a place, uh, where you're being T D Y'd over to the CIA.

• 1:57:20Danny Jones?

  Pull that mic in a little bit closer. Pull that mic in.

• 1:57:23Speaker 03

  Okay, I would be called and say, you know, report to the embassy at Mexico City, let's say, and, and you're, you're. We're assigning you a T D Y, you over to, to do an operation with a CIA.

• 1:57:34Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:35Speaker 03

  And that's the way I would meet with them, and they would tell me what they needed from me.

• 1:57:39Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  How my participation was basically, uh, going to be used. Uh, mainly it was using my informants to identify locations and different things I can't talk about. Uh, we did major operations. Uh. I was sworn to secrecy. I had to sign documents that I was never going to divulge what we were doing. And, uh, to this day, I can't divulge that because I could be.

• 1:58:09Speaker 03

  Arrested and charged for basically violating the neutrality act, violating, uh, um. Secrets of our, of national security. So to this day, I can't, I can't talk about those operations.

• 1:58:20Danny Jones?

  Well, it seems like you are divulging things that could be a risk to their quote unquote, national security. So it's amazing that you haven't been arrested for the stuff you have talked about. Because you.

• 1:58:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, because, see, when, when, when you do those black operations, you have to sign. And what I talk about, I never signed any paperwork.

• 1:58:35Danny Jones?

  Ah, okay.

• 1:58:36Speaker 03

  See, in other words, they came back and said, you were, you were ordered and you, and you, you signed here that you were not going to violate.

• 1:58:41Danny Jones?

  And those NDAs say explicitly, if you talk publicly about any of this stuff.

• 1:58:44Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 1:58:45Danny Jones?

  You give us the right to take you.

• 1:58:47Speaker 03

  Charged with violations of, of, uh, security laws, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, prison or whatever they can charge you with.

• 1:58:55Danny Jones?

  How much do you know about this El Mencho capture or El Mencho killing?

• 1:59:02Speaker 03

  I have been told by sources and I suspect highly that El Mencho, um. Was executed on his way to the supposedly hospital. Because he could have divulged, um, uh, a lot of information, uh, corruption by the current government.

• 1:59:20Speaker 03

  So, um.

• 1:59:22Speaker 03

  Basically, they killed him to, to, to, so he won't do what El Maya is doing now. Is giving up. Government officials. See, the cartels. The cartels are not the bosses of the drug trade. The guys really running the drug operations are corrupt, high government officials.

• 1:59:42Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:59:43Speaker 03

  They are the ones run, they make the cartels and destroy the cartels.

• 1:59:47Danny Jones?

  And the cartels answer to them.

• 1:59:48Speaker 03

  And the cartels answer to them. And that's a fact.

• 1:59:52Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 1:59:52Speaker 03

  Okay, so the cartels, yeah, they, they buy them off, they pay them off. And they're working with them.

• 2:00:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:00:01Speaker 03

  And. I. I, I need that the sick bucket when I hear Claudia Chama, the president of Mexico, saying that.

• 2:00:12Speaker 03

  That our operations are violating the sovereignty of Mexico. What is she talking about the sovereignty of Mexico? The Mexican citizens in the government and the country of Mexico has no sovereignty. Their sovereignty has been sold off to the cartels. She says, well, you know, the US is coming, trying to come in, or Trump's going to send troops in here to, to arrest our, our cartel guys without Mexican permission. They're going to violate our sovereignty. And I said, lady, what sovereignty are you talking about? You've already sold your sovereignty to the cartel guys. The poor people of Mexico, they have no say in anything.

• 2:00:46Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:00:47Speaker 03

  You and the cartels are running all the corruption out of Mexico.

• 2:00:53Speaker 03

  Remember, if you support a terrorist organization in any way, either financially or covering up for them or whatever, you are basically in violation against the terrorist act. So if you support terrorism, you can be charged with supporting terrorism. And the Mexican Morena group, the Mexican leading or the current administration Morena, has been supporting the cartels. And other terrorist organizations, now we can go after them finally. Meaning the corrupt government officials that are providing comfort and support to the cartels.

• 2:01:36Speaker 03

  So there's no such a thing as in Mexico that, "Oh, the US is gonna violate their sovereignty by arresting cartel guys." Give me a break. They have sold their sovereignty to the cartel guys, meaning the government officials of Mexico.

• 2:01:52Danny Jones?

  Right. And what would that even solve? Let's say if the American military decided to march in and arrest a thousand cartel bosses all across Mexico. Like, what would that even do? Wouldn't that create just a power vacuum that would get filled?

• 2:02:07Speaker 03

  Arresting cartel bosses is not gonna solve anything because there will be others that will rise as heads of the organizations. What you need to do is cut off the corruption, cut off the government officials that provide support, comfort, and protection to the cartels. So where we have a government in Mexico that is legitimately going after the cartels. If we had a legitimate government in Mexico that wasn't corrupt, the cartels wouldn't exist. The problem is, most of the Mexican army generals are under payroll of the cartels right now. And Claudio Champa, the president of Mexico, is in a very delicate position. Because if these generals go against you,

• 2:02:47Speaker 03

  against her, they could do a, basically throw her out of office. And then if she goes after the cartels, the cartels might kill her. So she's in the middle. If I go after the cartels, the cartels could kill me. And if I try to basically straighten out the corruption by arresting the generals, commandantes, and other governors that are corrupt, they're gonna go against me and do, what do you call it? A coup de grace, get me out of office.

• 2:03:19Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:03:20Speaker 03

  So she's in a very delicate situation. She's got Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, saying, "Hey, I want these guys." And then you have the corrupt generals and everybody protecting the guys, saying, "You better not turn him over." And this is what's going on right now with the governor of Sinaloa, Ruben Rochamoya. We have indicted him. We've requested that the government of Mexico turn him over. And she's refusing to turn him over. This guy is known to be corrupt and known to be part of the Chapito organization, working with the Chapitos, with the Nueva Generación cartel. But yet, she's protecting him. She won't turn him over.

• 2:04:05Danny Jones?

  So why do you think the Mexican army or special forces decided to raid El Mencho's, that compound where El Mencho allegedly was, right? Like, they allegedly had RPGs and shit. There was like some crazy, crazy war zone that was created there.

• 2:04:24Speaker 03

  The Mexican government makes these cartel guys. And whenever they become inconvenient or become a problem, they do away with them, like with El Mencho. That's all there is to it. Mencho basically wasn't playing ball with the current corrupt government. So they said, "Okay, he's expendable. Let's get him." That's why a lot of Mexico suspects that on a trip to the hospital on that helicopter, he was assassinated. Everybody in Mexico believes that. Because of the high level of corruption in the Mexican government.

• 2:05:06Danny Jones?

  After that happened, there was allegedly like all this crazy violence that broke out within 24 hours of him getting killed, right?

• 2:05:13Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:05:13Danny Jones?

  And all kinds of people were assassinated. Like, bars were shot up. There was, do you know how many people were killed? It was like a 24-hour spree or something that happened across the whole country.

• 2:05:23Speaker 03

  Several thousand people were killed, yes.

• 2:05:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:26Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:05:26Danny Jones?

  And what was that about?

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  It's basically the cartel guys made at the government for killing him. They were protesting against the Mexican government that killed El Mencho. Because they knew that he was assassinated. And that's why, the way they protested, I guess.

• 2:05:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's just, it's hard to track. You know, because there's just so many factions of different cartels. So they're warring against each other. You know, especially post El Mayo, coming back to the US. It's hard to track, you know, like the New Generation cartel, you know, the Gulf cartels, you know, and they all do different things. And, you know, there's also like weird alliances with different cartels. And it's just, it's very convoluted. Very, very, very hard to track what's going on. And if Mayo was working with the CIA for so long, you know, how many of these dudes like El Mencho are working with the CIA as well?

• 2:06:26Danny Jones?

  You know, like, how many of these newer, these younger cartels, like these new generation of Mexican cartels are working with American intelligence and the DEA?

• 2:06:36Speaker 03

  You know, that is interesting. Of course, I don't know the answer to your question there, but for years, the CIA has basically worked with criminal organizations in support of their operations. And they believe that because they're not a law enforcement agency, they can do that. They can go and basically align themselves with criminals as long as they're meeting an objective having to do with national security. And they don't care. It's no secret that the CIA was involved in plotting the assassination of Fidel Castro.

• 2:07:17Speaker 03

  So, you know, they've been working with Italian organized crime for years.

• 2:07:23Danny Jones?

  The mob.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  And again, they can do it. Now, as a law enforcement officer, you can't do it. You can't go and basically, you know, commit criminal acts with a criminal you're investigating, which is very hard for me to do when I was in long-term undercover operations. Because when you're running with them, and they ask you to kill somebody, what are you gonna do? You're gonna have to kill somebody. They'll kill you. You know? When I was a young agent, I wanted to be a very effective undercover agent. And there was an old guy in DEA, old, old guy, I don't even know what he was doing still with DEA,

• 2:08:06Speaker 03

  that had worked during the prohibition time. And nobody wanted to work with him because he chewed tobacco and he's kind of stunk. He was an old guy. Nobody wanted to go on surveillance with him. His name was Bill Caden, don't forget the guy. But I liked to go with him because I would, you know, tap his brain and ask him questions about undercover work. Because he had been a very undercover agent back in the old days. And one day, we're sitting there watching the Mexican border. And I said, "Bill," I said, "How do I become a very effective undercover agent? I wanna be a good undercover agent. I wanna be great at it." He says, "Well, you're halfway there." I said, "You look like a cook already." I'm always dressed like this.

• 2:08:49Speaker 03

  And I said, "But what does it really take?" And he says, "What's a German shepherd?" I said, "A dog." He says, "No, he's not." "He's a domesticated wolf." He says, "You're a German shepherd. You're a domesticated wolf. So now we're gonna let you run with the real wolves. And if you're gonna survive running with the real wolves, what are you gonna have to do?" "What the wolves do, right?" And I said, "Yes." "So just remember that. When you're running with the wolves, you'd better do what the wolves do. Because if you don't, they're gonna devour you."

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  At the time, I didn't really give it much thought. But later, I started thinking about what he told me. And I told myself, well, if I'm undercover and I have to kill somebody and if I don't, I'm gonna die, then I'm gonna have to kill somebody. So a lot of times you have to kind of like, hmm, do things in the gray area when you're undercover.

• 2:09:54Danny Jones?

  Do you ever get into situations like that?

• 2:09:56Speaker 03

  Yes, not ever to kill somebody, but where I had to, you know, come up with some idea of how I'm gonna get out of doing a crime with them because they're testing you. You're undercover, you're undercover alone, you're undercover in Mexico. You're undercover in the jungles in the Epstein law. What are you gonna do? You're alone.

• 2:10:19Speaker 03

  You better be very.

• 2:10:20Danny Jones?

  So on that level, now that you under, that you, the fact that you understand that, can you at least put yourself, can you put yourself into Felix's shoes? When he was there with Kiki?

• 2:10:31Speaker 03

  That's what, that, that, that's what I was trying to, they were trying to tell me, hey, we do it for, for a good reason.

• 2:10:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:37Speaker 03

  We, we, we violate the law for a good reason. I don't hate Felix Rodriguez. I really don't even know the man. I don't know the man. But that he was involved in Kiki's interrogation and murder, yes, he was. I fully believe that. He was taking orders up further up. So, yes.

• 2:11:00Danny Jones?

  And he was undercover and if they would have known that he was CIA?

• 2:11:03Speaker 03

  He must think, he must think that I hate him, but I don't.

• 2:11:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:07Speaker 03

  I don't hate the man, I don't even know him. All I know is I go with the facts and the evidence of follow, follow, follow the evidence in the crime and I have, and he has been placed there by more than one witness.

• 2:11:21Danny Jones?

  What do you think would have happened to Felix if Carl Quintero and all those other guys knew that he was undercover CIA guy?

• 2:11:28Speaker 03

  They knew.

• 2:11:29Danny Jones?

  Oh, they already did know?

• 2:11:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:11:30Danny Jones?

  So he wasn't even in that situation, he wasn't even pretending?

• 2:11:33Speaker 03

  No, no, they knew he was CIA.

• 2:11:36Speaker 03

  As a matter of fact, Ramon Lira, the late, the last witness that I brought up in the Camarena murder case, that was present at the location when Kiki was being tortured.

• 2:11:48Speaker 03

  He asked Fonseca, who is this guy? And he's, oh, he's our CIA friend. And he's been to Vietnam and then he got to talk to Rodriguez and Rodriguez discussed about who was involved in Vietnam and all this other stuff. He knows Rodriguez and he knew, and Fonseca knew that Rodriguez was CIA. He, they knew. Remember they were married.

• 2:12:10Speaker 03

  The cartels and the CIA were married so that the CIA could use Rancho Viva.

• 2:12:16Danny Jones?

  So he wasn't even in an undercover situation?

• 2:12:17Speaker 03

  No, he wasn't in an undercover situation there, no, he was not.

• 2:12:20Danny Jones?

  They were openly working with each other and he, he was probably not afraid for his life at all because they would.

• 2:12:24Speaker 03

  He was over CIA operative. And what's interesting, Danny, is that

• 2:12:31Speaker 03

  he was supplying the cartel with weapons.

• 2:12:37Speaker 03

  The witnesses informed me that before even Kiki was picked up,

• 2:12:43Speaker 03

  Rodriguez would show up at Fonseca's residence and then right after he showed up, Fonseca would say, go to the airport, he, go pick up these weapons. There were weapons that Rodriguez had flown into the airport and the, the, the, the bodyguards would be sent to the airport to pick up the weapons and they described the weapons to me. So Rodriguez was selling weapons to Fonseca, the head of the, uh, one of the cartel back then.

• 2:13:14Danny Jones?

  What, how advanced do you think that the cartels are now? Like as far as like weapons and surveillance and spy tools and stuff like that? Because you say like, the military is paid off by the cartels. They're giving them intelligence, they're working with them, they're helping them. Like, a lot of these, like Mexico, I know, gets equipment and shit from, you know, advanced first world countries like Israel, the United States. So like, is it possible that the cartel is getting like some of the most advanced weapons

• 2:13:55Danny Jones?

  and spying software and shit that you see countries like the US and Israel have too?

• 2:14:01Speaker 03

  They do. The cartels are getting very sophisticated weapons and like I said, one of the sources I understand is Ukraine.

• 2:14:08Danny Jones?

  From Ukraine?

• 2:14:09Speaker 03

  From Ukraine. They're getting drones, they're getting, uh, all kinds of equipment, night vision equipment, uh, weapons, uh, uh, even biological weapons.

• 2:14:19Danny Jones?

  Biological weapons?

• 2:14:20Speaker 03

  They have all that stuff, the cartels, yes, they do. They're very well armed. As a matter of fact, our Mexican army won't take them on because they're better armed than a Mexican army, the cartel guys are. Remember they, they've got a lot of money. And as far as intelligence, of course, they have.

• 2:14:35Danny Jones?

  You think they have a nuke?

• 2:14:37Speaker 03

  What's that?

• 2:14:38Danny Jones?

  Do you think they have any nuclear weapons?

• 2:14:40Speaker 03

  I don't believe, I have not heard that. I've heard they have some type of biological weapons they can, they can use, but no, not nuclear weapons. But remember the cartels, because of their money, have corrupt government agents working for them. Some of them have been caught, some of them have been exposed.

• 2:14:57Speaker 03

  But they have corrupt DEA agents, FBI agents, CIA agents working for them too. I mean, for them to give you a couple, two, three million dollars is nothing. They're making billions, almost three millions of dollars with the drugs. That's how big they've gotten. They're transnational. I mean, they, they're selling drugs in Europe all over, not just the United States. We can't lose sight of that and they have a lot of money. They can put a DEA agent on payroll for a million a month. So they have infiltrated also our corrupt, uh, our, our law enforcement agencies, agents that are corrupt. How many agents have been arrested in the last year?

• 2:15:39Speaker 03

  Three or four DEA agents have gone down the tubes for taking money from cartels, working for the cartels.

• 2:15:45Danny Jones?

  DEA agents?

• 2:15:46Speaker 03

  Yes, sir.

• 2:15:48Danny Jones?

  How often does this happen?

• 2:15:50Speaker 03

  You see Gary was arrested, what, a year ago? Um, I forget his first name, uh, several, several DEA agents have been arrested.

• 2:15:58Speaker 03

  Working for the cartels. So they have the money, they have the resources, uh, to penetrate even our, our, um, agencies. So they have great intelligence and as far as military equipment, they have the latest because they have the money.

• 2:16:17Danny Jones?

  How do you think they get away with running operations inside of Amer, inside of the United States? Like for example, like in the forests and stuff in California, like Northern California, like the grow operations that are up there?

• 2:16:29Speaker 03

  I understand right now that there's a lot of marijuana growing, going on, uh, basically owned by the cartels. The cartels have hired people here in the United States, legitimate, uh, citizens. They hire them to open up the marijuana dispensaries that are opening up all over the United States.

• 2:16:56Speaker 03

  They say, okay, you get all the licenses, you open it up, we'll give you 30% of all the money that's made there and they use them to launder money and they also have marijuana grows in the United States to supply the cannabis and stuff to the dispensaries which they own. That's going on right now. So a lot of these dispensaries that you see going on, they're owned by the cartels in this country.

• 2:17:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's one of the things that, um, David was pointing out. I had another guy, John Norris, who, uh, was pointing out, he, he worked for the, uh, FWC and he was explaining how there was like multiple shootouts in the woods of California with these cartels.

• 2:17:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:39Danny Jones?

  And like they were doing all kinds of crazy stuff, like setting like Vietnam era booby traps, like punji pits and stuff like that.

• 2:17:45Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:17:45Danny Jones?

  Like barbaric.

• 2:17:46Speaker 03

  It's going on right now.

• 2:17:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah, the, the, the fact that that doesn't get more attention by the United States military is insane to me. Like what are we gonna do in Mexico when we can't even get rid of cartel grow operations that they're having in California?

• 2:18:00Speaker 03

  That and, uh, the fact that, uh,

• 2:18:04Speaker 03

  for some reason, our media, I don't know why, they don't seem to be interested in publicizing none of this stuff. I mean, it's not like it's unknown, just nothing, nothing is being said in the news. That people are not being educated of these secret operations that are taking place, as you stated, right now in our country. Like, there's all these 85,000 or whatever children that are, uh, that have been imported that are unaccounted for. What do you think a lot of them have ended up? A lot of them are being sold by the cartels to legitimate families, you know, a family can't have kids, they don't qualify because of all the restrictions to illegally adopt a child. So they go to the cartels, what do you want? You want a little girl, 10 years old, how old do you want it? Give me $20,000 here.

• 2:18:48Speaker 03

  That's what they disappear to. And some of the kids have even been exposed to basically taking organs out of them, like kids and stuff.

• 2:18:54Danny Jones?

  This was in the Epstein files.

• 2:18:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's all, that, that, that's all really happening here. Where are those children? Disappeared.

• 2:19:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:05Speaker 03

  So we are, we've got problems with corruption here too. I mean, how did this happen?

• 2:19:14Speaker 03

  That's what they don't address is where are these children? Who adopted them? Who bought organs from them, you know, off of them?

• 2:19:25Speaker 03

  The women, prostitution rings all over the place. Where are they? Most of the women that are being brought illegally are raped by the cartel guys anyway before they bring them over, young girls, they're all raped.

• 2:19:37Danny Jones?

  That are trafficked across the border?

• 2:19:38Speaker 03

  Yes. Not only that, the cartels, remember, in the eighties, nineties were not involved in human trafficking, the cartels were only drug trafficking. Now they're involved in human trafficking and everything else.

• 2:19:47Danny Jones?

  Everything else.

• 2:19:48Speaker 03

  Right. If you're Chinese and you want to come into the United States, or you know,

• 2:19:56Speaker 03

  as it was here maybe five years ago, it costs you $20,000. Now, if you didn't pay the cartels $20,000, the coyotes could not bring you across. You had to pay the cartels $20,000. Now, if you were from, let's say, El Salvador, or Guatemala, or whatever, the price would be less. It would cost you $5,000 to the cartels before the coyote could bring you across. So the cartel started capitalizing it, and they finally got involved also in controlling human trafficking. So now the cartel, basically, you need to pay off the cartel before you can come across illegally. Thank God that finally has been shut down, but they were making money hand over fist

• 2:20:42Speaker 03

  with their involvement in human trafficking.

• 2:20:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's insanity, man.

• 2:20:51Danny Jones?

  But when it comes to like the equipment that you say they're getting from Ukraine, they have drones and biological weapons.

• 2:20:59Danny Jones?

  That's terrifying if they have biological weapons, because with the, one of the things about weapons like that, which are almost as, maybe even more terrifying than nuclear weapons, is that it's almost impossible to attribute them to where they came from. And like, one of the things that keeps countries from going to war, like nuclear war with each other, is the mutually assured destruction. Because if we launch a nuke, they're gonna launch a nuke, and everyone's gonna fucking die. But if a rogue criminal organization like, you know, the CJ and G cartel, or whatever cartel decides to let loose some pathogen in Mexico or in the United States, and all of a sudden it spreads around the world, like,

• 2:21:42Danny Jones?

  there's no repercussions, because they're a criminal organization that is responsible and answers to nobody.

• 2:21:49Speaker 03

  That's right. I don't understand the extent, or how potent, or I have been told that they do have biological weapons, they have everything, because they have the money to buy it. And remember, we have criminal

• 2:22:05Speaker 03

  countries now that are involved in drug trafficking, trying to destroy us. And I'll repeat again, the Chinese have declared a silent war against us by inundating us with a very little drug, which is fentanyl. These countries are not our friends. I don't know how to explain to people that the government of Mexico, Morena government, is a socialist communist type political organization. They hate the United States. Lopez Obrador hated us. He tried to expel all the DEA's out of Mexico. They're not our friends.

• 2:22:48Speaker 03

  And they're being used by the Chinese, the Russians, and everybody else. Especially, there's a lot of Russians, Chinese, and Iranians in Mexico right now.

• 2:22:56Danny Jones?

  I heard through another gentleman who is a journalist working in Mexico, that the cartels got really pissed off when cocaine started getting mixed with fentanyl, and people were getting killed, people were dying, because allegedly that was the reason that I heard people were dying, was because they were getting, these weren't people that were like seeking out fentanyl. These were people that were trying to use cocaine, and it was accidentally tainted with fentanyl. And if your cocaine is all of a sudden causing all these deaths in America, well, that's not good for business, right? If you're killing your customer, customer base, the cartel's not gonna be happy. Right? Maybe the Chinese will be if their goal is to kill people, but the cartels, they want money.

• 2:23:40Danny Jones?

  So I heard that there was like this big warning that was sent across Mexico to all the cartel members, saying that like, "Stop lacing shit with fentanyl, we don't want to be killing people," and they were like threatening to kill people over that. And from what I heard, I could be wrong, was that they kind of addressed that. And that might be the reason why the overdoses, specifically the fentanyl overdoses since 2022, 2021, have been going down significantly.

• 2:24:09Speaker 03

  All I know is that the Chapitos were very much involved in

• 2:24:16Speaker 03

  the production of fentanyl. And all I know that has recently occurred as far as fentanyl was, as of about six months ago, the governor of, I believe it was Chihuahua,

• 2:24:31Speaker 03

  basically had been reporting a major fentanyl lab in her state, I believe it was Chihuahua. And she wasn't getting a response from Mexico City, from the government in Mexico City. So she got her state agents involved with DEA and the CIA, and they went in and blew up the lab. And in escaping out of the explosion, I guess, two CIA agents and two state police agents flipped the car and got killed.

• 2:25:08Speaker 03

  So it was exposed that CIA and DEA had been involved in the

• 2:25:15Speaker 03

  destruction or blowing up of that fentanyl lab. And the president of Mexico was very upset at the governor for allowing DEA and CIA to become involved in blowing up that lab. And from what I understand, the governor of that state that allowed it

• 2:25:39Speaker 03

  basically was afraid that she was going to be arrested on orders of the president for violating Mexican sovereignty. She was more upset that she was letting DEA and CIA work in her state and had caused the destruction of this lab, and was mad at the governor over violating Mexican sovereignty by letting Americans work in her state. And that's been all over the news in Mexico.

• 2:26:04Danny Jones?

  What is the, what is the relationship of the current president in Mexico with Trump?

• 2:26:08Speaker 03

  Not good.

• 2:26:09Danny Jones?

  They don't like each other?

• 2:26:12Speaker 03

  I understand they don't. Well, Trump is not happy with her, let's put it that way. So there's no outright, that I know information, that they've had arguments or whatever, but I do know that from what I hear from my government sources, is that Trump is very unhappy with Chaima's basically cooperation. Remember, Chaima is an atheist, and she's a communist. She's a socialist. She's not...

• 2:26:38Danny Jones?

  She's the drugs, or hugs not drugs lady who's currently, right? Hugs not drugs, that's her thing?

• 2:26:46Speaker 03

  Yes. She's basically, believing, or stating that she's going to fight the cartels with hugs, not drugs, as her former boss, the former president, Lopez Obrador did. He actually went public and said it, "I'm going to basically combat the cartels with hugs, not bullets."

• 2:27:08Danny Jones?

  And that was like a huge period of time that allowed them to strengthen and thrive.

• 2:27:11Speaker 03

  Right. As a matter of fact, when Lopez Obrador first became president, within two months of his presidency, he went and visited Chapo Guzmán's mother twice.

• 2:27:24Danny Jones?

  That's nice.

• 2:27:25Speaker 03

  And I'll remind you that when that occurred, it was back in 2019, right after the Sinaloa cartel had murdered 18 members of the Mennonite religious group that were traveling to Mexico

• 2:27:40Speaker 03

  for a wedding celebration. They were intercepted by the cartels, and there was all women and children traveling, and there were, most, 13 of them, I think, were executed. Babies were burned in their baby chairs by the cartels.

• 2:27:52Danny Jones?

  Americans?

• 2:27:53Speaker 03

  Americans. Yes. And Trump was very upset over it, and complained to Lopez Obrador, who was in prison in 2019, it happened, November 2019. And he said, "Hey, we gotta do war against these cartels." And that's when Lopez Obrador went public and said, "We're not going to do war with the cartels. We're going to fight the cartels with abrazos, not balazos."

• 2:28:19Danny Jones?

  So what do you think, if you were in charge, what would you do?

• 2:28:24Speaker 03

  If I was in charge?

• 2:28:25Danny Jones?

  If you were in charge, if you were in charge of, if you had like the president's ear, and you could make any decision you wanted, as far as like combating the cartel problem and their destruction to the United States, what would you do?

• 2:28:42Speaker 03

  I would do exactly what Donald Trump is doing, is going after the heads, going after the corrupt government officials. You go after the president, if he or she is corrupt, go after him. Indict him and try to get him out, like we did Maduro. That's what you gotta do. You gotta cut the head of a monster.

• 2:28:58Danny Jones?

  Kidnap her? Pull her out? Do like a kidnapping of her?

• 2:29:03Danny Jones?

  Extradite, or whatever, render her out of the country?

• 2:29:05Speaker 03

  Not only her, her and everybody else, all the other governors.

• 2:29:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but my point is, isn't like, with the Maduro thing, we got Maduro out, but we didn't do a regime change, it's just the same fucking, another head of the snake is in charge there, right? It's just, that was all about oil. That didn't really change anything about the government or the people there. So if you rendered her out, like, wouldn't that vacuum just get filled by somebody else? Like, how is that gonna change anything?

• 2:29:29Speaker 03

  You know, I think, I think right now we have them very worried right now, they're on the run right now. Because we have indicted several government officials, to include the governor of Sinaloa. I think that it's effective to go after these people that create the cartels, that support the cartels. It's time that we go after the corrupt officials. And if we have to, if we have to bring him out like we did Maduro, then we bring him out like we did Maduro.

• 2:29:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I don't know. It's hard to fathom because the corruption just goes so deep. You know, the deeper you go, like eventually you get right to into, you know, you find a revolving door into the government of the United States. That probably allows the shit to happen.

• 2:30:12Speaker 03

  That's my issue.

• 2:30:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:30:13Speaker 03

  Is that we're also corrupt here. Look at what happened during the Biden administration.

• 2:30:18Danny Jones?

  Maybe even more so.

• 2:30:20Speaker 03

  We are more corrupt. Seriously. Look at.

• 2:30:23Danny Jones?

  I mean, is there, does Mexico have their own Jeffrey Epstein? I don't know how you can get more evil than that. I've never heard of a Mexican Epstein.

• 2:30:30Speaker 03

  Well, the only thing that that is really, really bad about Mexico, and I'll mention it right now, is the fact that in no other place other than Auschwitz,

• 2:30:42Speaker 03

  have we seen incineration camps, gas chambers where people were killed. In Mexico, four incineration camps have been uncovered. The last one was uncovered, Salto de la Hara, where there's evidence of over 400 people being burned to death in this incineration camp.

• 2:31:00Danny Jones?

  And they find like the shoes, the shoes of all the people there. There was like hundreds of shoes.

• 2:31:05Speaker 03

  They found even baby shoes. Where they have all, all, whole families were executed. They were burnt alive in these extermination camps in Mexico. What I don't understand is this is major stuff occurring now. And yet our press, our press, Danny, doesn't cover it. Nobody knows about this. It's covered in Mexico.

• 2:31:29Speaker 03

  Incineration camps where people are executed. That's going on now.

• 2:31:35Danny Jones?

  It's like a modern day Auschwitz.

• 2:31:36Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:31:37Danny Jones?

  Right in Mexico. And they're just killing, and who specifically are they targeting?

• 2:31:41Speaker 03

  Anybody that opposes the cartels.

• 2:31:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:31:44Speaker 03

  Anybody that's a rival to a cartel. If you're like their arrival, let's say to the Nueva Generación, they'll pick you up, not only you, your children, your whole family, and go kill all of you. That's how they control through fear.

• 2:31:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:31:59Speaker 03

  Okay. And, and, and the ordinary people in Mexico, the regular people, they don't go out at night. They're so afraid of the cartels because the cartels patrol the cities.

• 2:32:10Danny Jones?

  Can you find like a real article instead of like the Wikipedia?

• 2:32:15Speaker 03

  NPR.

• 2:32:16Danny Jones?

  NPR, Mexico in Shock After Discovery of Apparent Cartel Training Ranch and Killings. Mexico has been in shock over the discovery of a ranch that was apparently used by the cartels for training recruits. Family members of Mexican people say they found those bones, found bones in makeshift cremation ovens. God, that's insane.

• 2:32:39Speaker 03

  That's what I'm talking about.

• 2:32:41Danny Jones?

  And this was posted when? Go up.

• 2:32:43Speaker 03

  Two thousand five.

• 2:32:44Danny Jones?

  To the last year.

• 2:32:47Speaker 03

  There was a latest one that was just, that was just uncovered here about six months ago out of La Hara. That, that, that's an older one that they're describing in that article there. But, but here's the thing. Why are we outraged by that?

• 2:33:00Danny Jones?

  Right. Well, also, you want, you know, some of the most horrific videos, like propaganda execution videos that we see from like the Middle East, from, you know, like ISIS and shit. It, the ones that Mexico does, the cartels do, are a hundred times worse and more brutal. Like, there was one, I heard a guy talking about where they made a video where they surgically removed the guy's face, the skin, and then cut his tongue out and then pulled his heart out, still beating, all on video.

• 2:33:34Speaker 03

  There was one video where they had killed nine army soldiers and they decapitated them and they posted them at the plaza on their, basically lying face down, but their heads on top of their back, facing this way. Nine of them decapitated by the cartels. But yet, the cartels are viewed by a lot of people as folk heroes. They make corridos, they're corridos about them. And these are hideous, crazy people. Look at El Chapo Guzman, he's a total sociopath.

• 2:34:10Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:11Speaker 03

  He's the kind of guy that can be cutting your head with his right arm and eating a sandwich with his left arm. No feelings. A sociopath is a person that can pass a polygraph and lie to you because he's in fear of anything.

• 2:34:26Speaker 03

  They have no feelings. They have no soul.

• 2:34:29Danny Jones?

  And they're also raised into this environment from a very young age, right?

• 2:34:33Speaker 03

  From a very young age, they're raised into this very.

• 2:34:35Danny Jones?

  So when you're a kid, when you're a child.

• 2:34:37Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 2:34:38Danny Jones?

  And you're being told to take a gun and go shoot and kill people.

• 2:34:42Speaker 03

  That's right.

• 2:34:43Danny Jones?

  Like, imagine, you know, what does that turn you into? When that, that's the way your brain is formed and it develops into this world. Like, there's no escape. Once you're, once you're raised, brought, you know, brought up into that type of stuff and indoctrinated into that violent culture from a super young age, there's no escaping it. You're fucked.

• 2:35:03Speaker 03

  No, I agree with you, and that's true. They are raising sociopaths every day in Mexico.

• 2:35:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And they're also like, you know, glorifying it on TikTok and like making TikTok videos on like, you know, who has like the, you know, the gold plated guns and this El Mini Leek guy, the security guy for Los Chepitos. You know, they all drive around in like huge lifted trucks and have guns and stuff. They think it's cool, like it's part of the culture there. It's crazy. It's crazy how it's just, you know, how it's evolving, you know?

• 2:35:34Speaker 03

  And it's getting worse. And now people ask me from the time you were with DEA in the eighties and nineties, how has the drug situation gotten? What's the difference? And I will say this, it is triple worse than I was, when I was with DEA in the eighties and nineties. Triple worse. Nothing has, nothing has stopped them. As a matter of fact, the cartels and the drug situations has blossomed to the point, like I said, where these cartels are so rich that they're able to buy even biological weapons. They have, they, they have all the sophisticated weapons that we have.

• 2:36:17Speaker 03

  I mean, to go out and take out the cartels, even if we send troops, it wouldn't be easy. They're, they're ready. And they've stated publicly, we're ready for the Marines to come in. We're waiting on them.

• 2:36:29Speaker 03

  They feel they can, they feel they have a, they have a, a chance to do war with us. Because that's.

• 2:36:34Danny Jones?

  Maybe that's why we don't fuck with them.

• 2:36:36Speaker 03

  I don't know. I can't answer that.

• 2:36:38Danny Jones?

  Maybe that and combined with the fact that some of the biggest corporations in the US rely on Mexico to produce their shit. Tesla, for example, you know, they have huge, huge operations going on in Mexico, manufacturing their cars. Ford, and not, maybe not Ford, but a bunch of the huge car manufacturers, you know, and then other countries, I'm sure, have huge operations in Mexico that they don't want to get upset with them, you know? If, if China is mining tons of minerals and lithium and shit in China and hiring the cartels to help them with that, and Mexico or in the US gets in the way, you know, it's probably such a hornet's nest.

• 2:37:18Speaker 03

  It is. It is a major problem. As you're starting to see, I mean, I, I, I don't know where we're gonna head, where we're headed with this thing, but we're headed in the wrong direction in taking out the corrupt government officials in Mexico and any other country that's basically like Maduro. I mean, those are drug trafficking countries that are supplying drugs to destroy us.

• 2:37:41Danny Jones?

  What did you think about all those stories that the, that the news, the big news corporations were putting out there about these little like, single engine boats, like center console boats and canoes, trafficking cocaine from Venezuela to the United States and like blowing them out of the water? Did you think that, did you, what did you make of that? They were, they were saying that all these little, they were showing videos of these like little like, you know, like 20 foot fishing boats or 10 foot fishing boats carrying cocaine from Venezuela to the US and saying that was the reason we had to do these military operations because of the drugs in the boats?

• 2:38:25Speaker 03

  I think that it's correct that we did that, and I'm gonna tell you why. Because if we don't, how are we gonna stop it? They don't understand nothing but violence. Arresting him hasn't worked. You know, we arrest him and, and then we have the liberal, the liberals over here, the judges, they just turn him loose.

• 2:38:47Speaker 03

  It's not a deterrent.

• 2:38:48Danny Jones?

  Turn who loose?

• 2:38:49Speaker 03

  These, these, these people that, these people that get captured, the ones that are arrested by the, by the, what do you call it, the close guard. A lot of them are, are turned, are basically post bond and they end up back in, in their countries. So basically, I agree with that. I agree that we have to stop them.

• 2:39:06Danny Jones?

  So I have, I have a friend who's a lawyer and he, um, he rep, he actually, you know, used to, he's worked with lots of cartel members. Like he gets flown, you know, first class to South American countries and go to Ritz Carlton to meet with like cartel bosses and shit. And they hire him.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:39:23Danny Jones?

  And he was explaining to me, he's like,

• 2:39:28Danny Jones?

  and I don't understand the legality of how that works, but anyways, he was explaining to me that all these like, super wealthy cartel bosses that hire him to do shit,

• 2:39:40Danny Jones?

  they never pay any repercussions for anything. He said, all the people like the poor fishermen and the farmers, like the pawns of the operation, that are the ones like driving those type of boats, those are the guys that end up in prison. The guys who are making all the money, who are in charge, they live with impunity. You think that's true?

• 2:40:03Speaker 03

  No, that is true. Very true. They live in impunity because why? Because they work and pay off corrupt governments that protect them.

• 2:40:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:40:12Speaker 03

  And, and you're right, it's always the poor guy, the low class guy.

• 2:40:15Danny Jones?

  The people that are.

• 2:40:16Speaker 03

  The mule.

• 2:40:17Danny Jones?

  The most desperate people.

• 2:40:18Speaker 03

  The most, those are the ones that get blown up or get arrested.

• 2:40:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah. And, and. So that's why that felt like theater, that felt like theatrics to me or like some, that seemed fake to me, that whole thing. And like, who's gonna, if they can take a single engine, a single motor boat, you know, from Venezuela all the way to the Florida Keys? It just doesn't make sense.

• 2:40:36Speaker 03

  Right. But it's happening. And we have to, we have to, we have to stop it.

• 2:40:46Danny Jones?

  Yeah, look at that thing. Where's that thing really going? I don't know. I just find it hard to trust the narratives these days. But Hector, thank you for doing this, man. I really appreciate it.

• 2:40:59Speaker 03

  You're very welcome. Thank you for having me.

• 2:41:03Danny Jones?

  My pleasure.

• 2:41:04Speaker 03

  And I, I hope that I enlightened some people and opened up some people's eyes to the fact that we have a lot of corruption in our country also.

• 2:41:14Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm. It's deep. For people out there who want to learn more, obviously, The Last Narc, you have a book and a movie. That's out.

• 2:41:24Speaker 03

  Yes, The Last Narc, I have a book and there's a movie, The Last Narc. It's streaming now on Amazon, Prime Video. And I want to say this is that I am very truthful in what I know and what I say. And I have no hate for anybody personally. I just did my job and took the evidence where it led me. I have no personal hate for anybody. And I don't have an actual grudge with anybody. I just want the American people to know that what I've exposed here and what I've exposed in my book, In The Last Narc, it's all true.

• 2:42:05Speaker 03

  Because if it wasn't true, I would be in jail for submersion of perjury and perjury. I have testified to these facts, not only in federal proceedings, but also in congressional hearings. I have testified before Congress on numerous occasions. So the facts that I expose are known by our high government officials. Thank you for having me, Dan.

• 2:42:31Danny Jones?

  My pleasure, man. I really appreciate it and I very much enjoyed our convo. And we'll see what I can do about getting Felix in here to have a little powwow session with him.

• 2:42:40Speaker 03

  I would like a confrontation. I would like, if we could get Felix, Jim Reed and me.

• 2:42:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah. That would be wild, right?

• 2:42:47Speaker 03

  You were there. You were bringing in cocaine. What's he gonna say?

• 2:42:51Danny Jones?

  We'll see what we can do.

• 2:42:52Speaker 03

  You think, okay, we'll see what we can do.

• 2:42:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 2:42:55Danny Jones?

  All right, man. Thank you again. Is there anything else we should tell people about as far as like how to find you or how to contact you or find?

• 2:43:02Speaker 03

  No, I'd rather not. I'd rather not be found.

• 2:43:04Danny Jones?

  All right. Fantastic. All right. Good night, everybody.

• 2:43:07Speaker 04

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