This Doesn’t Make You Weak | Ask Daily Stoic

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:05Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the Daily Stoic Podcast, where each day we bring you a Stoic-inspired meditation, designed to help you find strength and insight and wisdom into everyday life. Each one of these episodes is based on the 2,000-year-old philosophy that has guided some of history's greatest men and women, help you learn from them, to follow in their example, and to start your day off with a little dose of courage and discipline and justice and wisdom. For more, visit DailyStoic.com.

• 0:55Ryan Holiday?

  This doesn't make you weak. We want our leaders to be strong. We want our heroes to be tough. We don't want them breaking down constantly. We don't want them whining. We certainly don't want them to be powerless over their emotions. In fact, often when we call someone a good Stoic, we are implying that they don't do these things, that they have grown out or beyond such things, that they are paragons of that virtue of discipline. Yet, as we've talked about recently, Marcus Aurelius would certainly fail that test. We have multiple stories about him crying, like, a surprising amount of stories about him crying. Does that mean he was weak?

• 1:40Ryan Holiday?

  That he was pathetic? That he was not in command of himself? No, not at all. It means he was human. It also means he wasn't repressed or all too worried about how he would look. Frank O'Connor, the biographer of the Irish revolutionary Michael Collins, would note that Ireland's great hero was not above or beyond tears. If I had recorded all the occasions when he wept, I should have given the impression that he was hysterical, O'Connor writes. He wasn't. He laughed and wept as a child does, indeed, as people in earlier centuries seem to have done, quite without self-consciousness. There is nothing wrong with getting things out with a cry every once in a while, or

• 2:24Ryan Holiday?

  of course quitting on yourself or others out of self pity is something different. There's nothing wrong with feeling overwhelmed. Letting that feeling prevent you from taking future action is different. There's nothing wrong with tears of grief. Never leaving your house again is different. The Stoics were human. Most great men and women were. If they were made of stone, what would there be to admire? What courage or discipline would be required? No, they were not weak because they had emotions. They were strong because even though they lost control of their emotions, they never lost control of what was important or what they had to do.

• 3:07Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. You may have heard about this thing that happened to me at the Naval Academy. I was supposed to give a talk back in April and it got canceled, you know, hours before I was supposed to go on over some political sensitivities. I was sad about that. My work with the Naval Academy has been something I've been really proud and excited about over the years. As it happens, I had another thing scheduled with a different part of the Navy with the Naval Information Warfare Command. That's the acquisition command that focuses on science and engineering and research and development that develops like the communications and information systems that make the Navy work. You know, how do the ships communicate with

• 3:51Ryan Holiday?

  each other? Air traffic control, cyber, IT, just the sheer communication capabilities of one naval aircraft carrier, to say nothing of the joint operations and everything the Navy does. So it was really cool that they wanted me to come in and do a Q and A. This was remote. Of course, I would have loved any excuse to fly To San Diego, one of the great places to be stationed, I am sure. I think sometimes the sheer size of these groups can be a bit surprising for us. There's something like 11,000 employees in this, you know, somewhat obscure naval command that I'm sure most people not in the Navy have never heard of. So, I mean, that would make it an enormous private company.

• 4:35Ryan Holiday?

  And then I can only imagine the size of their budget. Anyway, so they have workplace issues, they have tech issues, they have personal issue. I mean, just all the things that I think Stoicism helps us deal with. And they asked me a bunch of questions. It was kind of funny, there was, um, most of the Q and A came in through the chat. So I could see the questions coming in and there was a moderator who was doing amazing work and I appreciate it. But I did notice they politely skipped over some of the, uh, the questions about what had just happened at the Naval Academy. So we won't get into that, but we can listen to me answering some questions and talking about these issues with some wonderful vets and civil service employees who are doing work.

• 5:18Ryan Holiday?

  They help keep the world safe, they help keep America safe, that are having a really tough go of it these days. Uh, I hope you enjoy some of this Q and A.

• 5:40Speaker 02

  What does Stoic philosophy say on the subject of healthy expression of emotion? If embracing Stoic philosophy, how do we honor emotions like anger, fear, sadness, even happiness in a healthy way and avoid repressing them?

• 5:57Ryan Holiday?

  Stoicism is not stuffing your emotions down, certainly. And, and I don't think the Stoics were emotionless. They did try to, as, as I think all leaders must, they tried not to make emotional decisions. They tried not to be overwhelmed or controlled by those emotions. So, you know, I don't know if anger is an emotion I try to honor. In fact, most of the time when I do give in to anger, I'm never afterwards like, oh, I'm so glad I did that, right? Most of the time I look back when I've sent an email or I've said something in frustration, I go, why did I think that was so important? Why did I act that way? That wasn't who I want to be. Now,

• 6:39Ryan Holiday?

  What the Stoics wrote about these things, I think, is the ideal we're aspiring towards. Who they actually were in practice is much closer to all of us. We don't have that many stories about Marcus Aurelius. The historical record, even for an emperor, is not that thick. But we have four famous anecdotes about him crying. So he wasn't this repressed, disconnected, inhuman robot who never experienced the highs or the lows of life. You know, he cried when he was told he would be emperor because he was overwhelmed by the burden that he faced and he wasn't sure he could measure up. We're told he cried at the loss of his favorite teacher and at another time at a judicial

• 7:24Ryan Holiday?

  hearing where the victims of the plague had been mentioned. So we hear from Marcus, we see from Marcus, rather, in the historical record, that this was a person who was in touch with his emotions, who did experience them. It's just, I think, there's a difference between, again, feeling anger and then saying or doing something out of anger. There's a difference between being sad and, you know, having this sort of rush of emotion and then, you know, not getting out of bed for months at a time. So that, to me, is where we try to make some distinction.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  Thank you. Sally has two questions.

• 8:04Ryan Holiday?

  All right.

• 8:05Speaker 02

  First question is, in Discipline is Destiny, you emphasize self-discipline as key to success. What specific Stoic practices or habits can workers cultivate to maintain focus and productivity in high-pressure or distracting workplace environments?

• 8:22Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, I do think this is an important thing. When we talk about discipline, I think, especially, you know, when I'm talking to the military, I'm talking to sports, we tend to think of like, how far can you march? How fast can you run? How much weight can you lift? What do you eat? What time do you wake up? And these are obviously all essential elements of discipline. But most elite performers, that's part of the culture, that's part of what they already have mastered. I would say that in today's age, and particularly in the field of knowledge work, which almost all of you are in, the real discipline we have to cultivate is the ability to focus, to spend large uninterrupted blocks of time. Thinking and contemplating and working on problems.

• 9:07Ryan Holiday?

  Like for me, that's obviously researching and writing. For you, that might be reports, or it might be studying footage, or, you know, having discussions or reviewing plans. Like, the ability to to focus is, I think, the most underrated asset. And one of the most difficult things to have discipline in a world where technology is vying in its potency to to hijack that attention. So I I spend a lot of time thinking about how I design my day, the order in which I do things, what technology has access to me and what doesn't. Because I want to bring the best of myself to the most vexing and difficult of my tasks.

• 9:52Ryan Holiday?

  Because if I don't do that, I'm not going to be able to perform. And the stakes of what you guys do is much higher than what I do. People's lives depend on your ability to solve problems, to see things clearly, to to find the, you know, both the trees within the forest and the forest within the trees, to be able to sort of pan in and out. Your ability to do that, you know, the lives of people depend on it. And so we have to have this kind of mental and emotional discipline that I think is unfortunately in very low supply these days. What's the second part?

• 10:27Speaker 02

  Sally's second question is, how did you prepare for today?

• 10:33Ryan Holiday?

  Well, that is an interesting question. Um, a couple of things. So I I get up early. I took my son to school. I took a long run. I did 10 miles around Town Lake in Austin, where I was just sort of thinking about what I was going to say. The night before, I went over my notes, which I did here on paper. So I have all the notes for today's talk, which I laid out. I went through it yesterday. I went through it after I sort of mentally went through it on my run. I made sure I ate, so I didn't pass out, as I did a longer run than I normally would do. So I'm I'm trying to think, you know, physically and mentally, how do I bring my best self to this?

• 11:17Ryan Holiday?

  And then as I was preparing the talk, I I spent some time thinking about, you know. Obviously Stoicism covers a wide swath of of different topics and you know, sort of scenarios. I just tried to think, what have I been thinking about that overlaps with perhaps what you guys have been thinking with and dealing with? And, and how could I put together some thoughts that, that would actually connect and be relevant to what you were going through? So, that, that's kind of how I prepared for today. I'll leave it to you guys if, do you think I was sufficiently prepared or not, or, or how I did? But that was kind of the routine that I, I ran through in preparation.

• 11:55Speaker 02

  Next question. How does Stoicism promote the benefits of quote, "serving the common good"? It seems more common to see people pursue individual success over common success.

• 12:07Ryan Holiday?

  Yes. Yeah. Uh, look, Stoicism is on some level, an individualistic philosophy in that it says, hey, focus on what you control. It's about resilience. It's about toughness. It's about accepting how little that we control. That, that is all a part of it. But then if we look at the lives of the Stoics, and I, I wrote a book about this, several years ago, what I, what I find fascinating about the Stoics is how many of them pursued lives of public service, whether they were teachers or diplomats, whether they were soldiers or politicians. The Stoics were engaged in public life. Seneca says that

• 12:53Ryan Holiday?

  the Epicureans sort of retreat to the garden where they find pleasure, but also self-development. He says, the, the Stoics participate in public life unless something prevents them. And so the Stoics have always been engaged and, and active in trying to solve the problems of their time. And, and there's a great book called The Pursuit of Happiness by Jeffrey Rosen, which looks specifically at the influence of Stoic philosophy on the founding fathers. So, again, this idea of passivity or resignation, this country which was founded, or you know, beyond the founding fathers. So, again, this idea of passivity or resignation, this country which was founded.

• 13:36Ryan Holiday?

  From nothing, not from whole cloth, you know, was founded by people deeply influenced by this philosophy. So they've always been focused on engagement and action and activity. Do they always get it right? Does, has our definition of what the common good is, does that change? Obviously, yes, for good reason. But, but the Stoics were engaged and active as we all must be.

• 14:05Speaker 02

  In moments where everything feels urgent, like family, business, fitness, et cetera, what is your internal script for mental check that brings you back to what's essential?

• 14:16Ryan Holiday?

  Yeah, that's actually one of Marcus Aurelius's questions. He says, you know, ask yourself in every moment, is this essential? Because he says, most of what we do and say and think isn't essential. And he says, when you eliminate the inessential, you get this double benefit of doing the essential things better. So I love that question, like, do I really need to be doing this? Does this actually matter? Is it going to move the needle? If I don't do this, will someone else do it? I, I like to ask myself those questions. Obviously, the Stoic practice of memento mori, which puts our mortality into perspective. Because, hey, you're not going to be here forever. So why are you putting things off? Or conversely, why are you getting so wrapped up in this? I think that can be very helpful, too.

• 15:00Ryan Holiday?

  One of my versions of this question that I think about is like, is this something only I can do? Is this like my main thing? I believe we each have a main thing, a real purpose. And life is too short to spend it on things that are not that thing. So I ask myself, if I don't do this, who will? Or conversely, uh, you know, is this something only I can do? And I, I love writing. It's what I feel like I'm uniquely talented at. And that's what I want to make sure the majority of my time is, is spent doing. And it's, it's so easy, right? To get sucked into all the invitations and the requests and the temptations and the distractions. And then you find, you know, an immense amount of time has gone by and you haven't spent any of it

• 15:43Ryan Holiday?

  on, on the thing that only you can do, on the thing that really moves the needle.

• 15:50Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Thank you for listening to the Daily Stoic Podcast. I just wanted to say we so appreciate it. We love serving you. It's amazing to us that over 30 million people have downloaded these episodes in the couple of years we've been doing it. It's an honor. Please, spread the word. Tell people about it. And this isn't to sell anything. I just wanted to say thank you.