Seneca on Being

Today’s episode is an excerpt from The Tao Of Seneca produced by Tim Ferriss’ Audio. In this letter Seneca writes about the ethereal nature of human existence, how time is constantly moving life forward, why we should take advantage of the time that we have here, and more. Go to tim.blog/seneca to get the PDF for free. The Jordan Harbinger Show is one of the most interesting podcasts on the web, with guests like Kobe Bryant, Mark Manson, Eric Schmidt, and more. Listen to one of Ryan's episodes right now (1, 2), and subscribe to the Jordan Harbinger Show today. Sign up for the Daily Stoic email: http://DailyStoic.com/signupFollow us: Instagram, Twitter, YouTube, TikTok, FacebookSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. 📢 Share | ⚙️ Manage Subscription

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to the weekend edition of the Daily Stoic. Each weekday, we bring you a meditation inspired by the ancient Stoics, something to help you live up to those four Stoic virtues of courage, justice, temperance, and wisdom. And then here on the weekend, we take a deeper dive into those same topics. We interview Stoic philosophers. We explore at length how these Stoic ideas can be applied to our actual lives and the challenging issues of our time. Here on the weekend, when you have a little bit more space, when things have slowed down, be sure to take some time to think, to go for a walk, to sit with your journal,

• 0:46Ryan Holiday?

  and most importantly, to prepare for what the week ahead may bring.

• 0:52Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. Welcome to another weekend episode of the Daily Stoic Podcast. One of the questions I get the most, obviously, from podcast listeners is like, what are the best audiobooks of the Stoics? Because there's not that many great options. Obviously, Marcus Aurelius did not record his own audiobook. For instance, the translation I love of Meditations, it was published in like 2003, maybe, maybe earlier. So like audiobooks weren't even really a thing. So there's not a great selection. And that's why I was so excited when a few years ago, my friend Tim Ferriss brought out The Tao of Seneca, an audiobook that's essentially the best of Seneca's letters.

• 1:33Ryan Holiday?

  I recommend this to people all the time who maybe are more listeners than readers. And I said, hey, Tim, could I run some of my favorite letters from your audiobook on the podcast? And he said, absolutely. And you can get the PDF of these letters totally for free if you go to tim.blog/seneca. Again, I think this is a great public service he's done. In today's excerpt, Seneca is talking about why we're here, what the meaning of life is. So pretty, pretty straightforward questions, if you will. Tim talks about how this piece of writing is actually a bit... Abstract for Seneca, who tended to focus on practical questions. And he says in his introduction to this letter, as you might think of this,

• 2:17Ryan Holiday?

  Letter 58, as Seneca on Mushrooms. As Seneca says, "So much for man, a substance that flows away and falls, exposed to every influence. But the universe, too, immortal and enduring as it is, changes and never remains the same." So this is one of the letters where I think Seneca also sounds the most like Marcus Aurelius. And that's why I wanted to bring it to you. I think you're going to like it. I love the Penguin Classics physical translation of Letters from a Stoic. That's what I carry at the Painted Porch, which you can check out. The Loeb editions are more complete. You can check those out. I've read those as well. And then as far as the audio ebook version, this is one of the best out there. The Tao of Seneca, produced by Tim Ferriss and Tim Ferriss Audio,

• 3:01Ryan Holiday?

  which you can get totally for free as a PDF at tim.blog/seneca. And of course, you can get the audiobook on Audible. I hope you enjoy.

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Letter 58. On Being.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  How scant of words our language is, nay, how poverty-stricken I have not fully understood until today. We happen to be speaking of Plato, and a thousand subjects came up for discussion, which needed names and yet possessed none. And there were certain others which once possessed but have since lost their words because we were too nice about their use. But who can endure to be nice in the midst of poverty? There is an insect called by the Greeks Oestrus, which drives cattle wild and scatters them all over their pasturing grounds. It used to be called a sealus in our language, as you may believe on the authority of Virgil.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Near Silarus Groves and Ecalburnus's shades of green-clad oak trees flits an insect named a sealus by the Romans. In the Greek, the word is rendered oestrus. With a rough and strident sound, it buzzes and drives wild the terror-stricken herds throughout the woods.

• 4:26Speaker 01

  By which I infer that the word has gone out of use. And, not to keep you waiting too long, there were certain uncompounded words current, like "Sernere ferro inter se", as will be proved again by Virgil.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Great heroes, born in various lands, had come to settle matters mutually with the sword. This settling matters we now express by "dei" Sernere. The plain word has become obsolete. The ancients used to say "usso", instead of "usero", in conditional clauses. "You need not take my word, but you may turn again to Virgil.

• 5:08Speaker 01

  The other soldiers shall conduct the fight with me, where I shall bid."

• 5:14Speaker 01

  It is not in my purpose to show by this array of examples how much time I have wasted on the study of language. I merely wish you to understand how many words that were current in the works of Enius and Akius have become mouldy with age, while even in the case of Virgil, whose works are explored daily, some of his words have been filched away from us. You will say, I suppose, "What is the purpose and meaning of this preamble?" I shall not keep you in the dark. I desire, if possible, to say the word "essentia" to you, and obtain a favorable hearing. If I cannot do this, I shall risk it, even though it puts you out of humour.

• 5:59Speaker 01

  I have Cicero as authority for the use of this word, and I regard him as a powerful authority. If you desire testimony of a later date, I shall cite Fabianus, careful of speech, cultivated, and so polished in style that he will suit even our nice tastes. For, what can we do, my dear Lucilius? How otherwise can we find a word for that which the Greeks call "osia", something that is indispensable, something that is the natural substratum of everything? I beg you accordingly to allow me to use this word "essentia". I shall nevertheless take pains to exercise the privilege which you have granted me with as sparing a hand as possible.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  Perhaps I shall be content with the mere right. Yet, what good will your indulgence do me if, lo and behold, I can in no way express in Latin the meaning of the word which gave me the opportunity to rail at the poverty of our language? And you will condemn our narrow Roman limits even more when you find out that there is a word of one syllable which I cannot translate. What is this, you ask? It is the word "own." You think me lacking in facility. You believe that the word is ready to hand, that it might be translated by "quod est." I notice, however, a great difference.

• 7:26Speaker 01

  You are forcing me to render a noun by a verb. But if I must do so, I shall render it by "quod est." There are six ways in which Plato expresses this idea, according to a friend of ours, a man of great learning, who mentioned the fact today. And I shall explain all of them to you, if I may first point out that there is something called genus and something called species. For the present, however, we are seeking the primary idea of genus on which the others, the different species, depend, which is the source of all classification, the term under which universal ideas are embraced.

• 8:08Speaker 01

  And the idea of genus will be reached if we begin to reckon back from particulars; for in this way we shall be conducted back to the primary notion. Now, man is a species, as Aristotle says, so is horse or dog. We must therefore discover some common bond for all these terms, one which embraces them and holds them subordinate to itself. And what is this? It is animal. And so there begins to be a genus, animal, including all these terms, man, horse, and dog. But there are certain things which have life, anima, and yet are not animals.

• 8:50Speaker 01

  For it is agreed that plants and trees possess life, and that is why we speak of them as living and dying. Therefore, the term "living things" will occupy a still higher place, because both animals and plants are included in this category. Certain objects, however, lack life, such as rocks. There will therefore be another term to take precedence over living things, and that is substance. I shall classify substance by saying that all substances are either animate or inanimate. But there is still something superior to substance, for we speak of certain things as possessing substance, and certain things as lacking substance.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  What then will be the term from which these things are derived? It is that to which we lately gave an inappropriate name, "that which exists", for by using this term they will be divided into species, so that we can say, "that which exists either possesses or lacks substance." This, therefore, is what genus is, the primary, original, and to play upon the word, general. Of course, there are the other genera, but they are special genera, man being, for example, a genus. For man comprises species, by nations, Greek, Roman, Parthian, by colors, white, black, yellow.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  The term comprises individuals also, Cato, Cicero, Lucretius. So man falls into the category genus, insofar as it includes many kinds, but insofar as it is subordinate to another term, it falls into the category species. But the genus, that which exists, is general, and has no term superior to it. It is the first term in the classification of things, and all things are included under it. The Stoics would set ahead of this still another genus, even more primary, concerning which I shall immediately speak,

• 10:57Speaker 01

  after proving that the genus which has been discussed above has rightly been placed first, being, as it is, capable of including everything.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  I therefore distribute that which exists into these two species, things with and things without substance. There is no third class. And how do I distribute substance? By saying that it is either animate or inanimate. And how do I distribute the animate? By saying, "Certain things have mind, while others have only life." Or, "The idea may be expressed as follows: Certain things have the power of movement, of progress, of change of position, while others are rooted in the ground. They are fed and they grow only through their roots." Again, into what species do I divide animals?

• 11:51Speaker 01

  They are either perishable or imperishable. Certain of the Stoics regard the primary genus as the something. I shall add the reasons they give for their belief. They say,

• 12:05Speaker 01

  "In the order of nature, some things exist, and other things do not exist. And even the things that do not exist are really part of the order of nature. What these are will readily occur to the mind, for example, centaurs, giants, and all other figments of unsound reasoning, which have begun to have a definite shape, although they have no bodily consistency." But I now return to the subject which I promised to discuss for you, namely, how it is that Plato divides all existing things in six different ways. The first class of that which exists cannot be grasped by the sight, or by the touch, or by any of the senses, but it can be grasped by the thought.

• 12:50Speaker 01

  Any generic conception, such as the generic idea "man", does not come within the range of the eyes, but "man" in particular does, as for example Cicero, Cato. The term "animal" is not seen. It is grasped by thought alone. A particular animal, however, is seen, for example, a horse, a dog. The second class of things which exist, according to Plato, is that which is prominent and stands out above everything else. This, he says, exists in a preeminent degree. The word poet is used indiscriminately, for this term is applied to all writers of verse,

• 13:32Speaker 01

  but among the Greeks it has come to be the distinguishing mark of a single individual. You know that Homer is meant when you hear men say "the poet." What, then, is this preeminent being? God, surely, one who is greater and more powerful than anyone else. The third class is made up of those things which exist in the proper sense of the term. They are countless in number but are situated beyond our sight. "What are these?" you ask. They are Plato's own furniture, so to speak. He calls them ideas, and from them all visible things are created, and according to their pattern all things are fashioned.

• 14:14Speaker 01

  They are mortal, unchangeable, inviolable. And this idea, or rather Plato's conception of it, is as follows:

• 14:25Speaker 01

  "The idea is the everlasting pattern of those things which are created by nature."

• 14:32Speaker 01

  I shall explain this definition in order to set the subject before you in a clearer light. Suppose that I wish to make a likeness of you. I possess in your own person the pattern of this picture, wherefrom my mind receives a certain outline, which it is to embody in its own handiwork. That outward appearance, then, which gives me instruction and guidance, this pattern for me to imitate, is the idea. Such patterns, therefore, nature possesses an infinite number, of men, fish, trees, according to whose model everything that nature has to create is worked out. In the fourth place, we shall put "form", and if you would know what "form" means,

• 15:16Speaker 01

  you must pay close attention calling Plato, and not me, to account for the difficulty of the subject. However, we cannot make fine distinctions without encountering difficulties. A moment ago, I made use of the artist as an illustration. When the artist desired to reproduce Virgil in colours, he would gaze upon Virgil himself. The idea was Virgil's outward appearance, and this was the pattern of the intended work. That which the artist draws from this idea, and has embodied in his own work, is the "form". Do you ask me where the difference lies? The former is the pattern,

• 15:57Speaker 01

  while the latter is the shape taken from the pattern and embodied in the work. Our artist follows the one, but the other he creates. A statue has a certain external appearance. This external appearance of the statue is the "form", and the pattern itself has a certain external appearance by gazing upon which the sculpture has fashioned his statue. This is the "idea". If you desire a further distinction, I will say that the "form" is in the artist's work, the "idea" outside his work, and not only outside it, but prior to it. The fifth class is made up of the things which exist in the usual sense of the term.

• 16:43Speaker 01

  These things are the first that have to do with us. Here we have all such things as men, cattle, and things. In the sixth class goes all that which has a fictitious existence, like void or time. Whatever is concrete to the sight or touch, Plato does not include among the things which he believes to be existent in the strict sense of the term, for they are in a state of flux, constantly diminishing or increasing. None of us is the same man in old age that he was in youth, nor the same on the morrow as on the day preceding. Our bodies are born along like the flowing waters. Every visible object accompanies time and its flight.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Of the things which we see, nothing is fixed. Even I myself, as I comment on this change, am changed myself.

• 17:38Speaker 01

  This is just what Heraclitus says: "We go down twice into the same river, and yet into a different river;

• 17:48Speaker 01

  for the stream still keeps the same name, but the water has already flowed past." Of course, this is much more evident in rivers than in human beings. Still, we mortals are also carried past in no less speedy a course, and this prompts me to marvel at our madness in clinging with great affection to such a fleeting thing as the body, and in fearing lest someday we may die, when every instant means the death of our previous condition. Will you not stop fearing lest that may happen once which really happens every day? So much for man, a substance that flows away and falls, exposed to every influence.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  But the universe too, immortal as enduring as it is, changes and never remains the same; for though it has within itself all that it has had, it has it in a different way from that in which it has had it. It keeps changing its arrangement.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  "Very well," say you, "what good shall I get from all this fine reasoning?" None, if you wish me to answer your question. Nevertheless, just as an engraver rests his eyes when they have long been under a strain and are weary, and calls them from their work and feasts them, as the saying is, so we at times should slacken our minds and refresh them with some sort of entertainment. But let even your entertainment be work, and even from these various forms of entertainment you will select, if you have been watchful, something that may prove wholesome. That is my habit, Lucilius.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  I try to extract and render useful some element from every field of thought, no matter how far removed it may be from philosophy.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Now what could be less likely to reform character than the subjects which we have been discussing? And how can I be made a better man by the ideas of Plato? What can I draw from them that will put a check on my appetites? Perhaps the very thought, that all these things which minister to our senses, which arouse and excite us, are by Plato denied a place among the things that really exist. Such things are therefore imaginary, and though they for the moment present a certain external appearance, yet they are in no case permanent or substantial.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Nonetheless, we crave them, as if they were always to exist, or as if we were always to possess them.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  We are weak, watery beings, standing in the midst of unrealities. Therefore, let us turn our minds to the things that are everlasting. Let us look up to the ideal outlines of all things that flit about on high, and to the God who moves among them, and plans how he may defend from death that which he could not make imperishable, because its substance forbade, and so by reason may overcome the defects of the body. For all things abide, not because they are everlasting, but because they are protected by the care of him who governs all things. But that which was imperishable would need no guardian.

• 21:20Speaker 01

  The master builder keeps them safe, overcoming the weakness of their fabric by his own power. Let us despise everything that is so little an object of value, that it makes us doubt whether it exists at all. Let us at the same time reflect, seeing that providence rescues from its perils the world itself, which is no less mortal than we ourselves, that to some extent our petty bodies can be made to tarry longer upon earth by our own providence, if only we acquire the ability to control and check those pleasures whereby the greater portion of mankind perishes.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Plato himself, by taking pains, advanced to old age. To be sure, he was the fortunate possessor of a strong and sound body. His very name was given him because of his broad chest. But his strength was much impaired by sea voyages and desperate adventures. Nevertheless, by frugal living, by setting a limit upon all that rouses the appetites, and by painstaking attention to himself, he reached that advanced age in spite of many hindrances. You know, I am sure, that Plato had the good fortune, thanks to his careful living, to die on his birthday, after exactly completing his eighty-first year.

• 22:45Speaker 01

  For this reason, wise men of the East, who happened to be in Athens at that time, sacrificed to him after his death, believing that his length of days was too full for a mortal man, since he had rounded out the perfect number of nine times nine. I do not doubt that he would have been quite willing to forego a few days from this total, as well as the sacrifice. Frugal living can bring one to old age, and to my mind, old age is not to be refused, any more than it is to be craved. There is a pleasure in being in one's own company as long as possible, when a man has made himself worth enjoying.

• 23:28Speaker 01

  The question, therefore, on which we have to record our judgment is, whether one should shrink from extreme old age, and should hasten the end artificially, instead of waiting for it to come. A man, who sluggishly awaits his fate, is almost a coward, just as he is immoderately given to wine, who drains the jar dry and sucks up even the dregs. But, we shall ask this question also.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Is the extremity of life the dregs? Or is it the clearest and purest part of all, provided only that the mind is unimpaired and the senses still sound, give their support to the spirit, and the body is not worn out and dead before its time? For it makes a great deal of difference whether a man is lengthening his life or his death. But if the body is useless for service, why should one not free the struggling soul? Perhaps one ought to do this a little before the debt is due lest, when it falls due, he may be unable to perform the act. And since the danger of living in wretchedness

• 24:42Speaker 01

  is greater than the danger of dying soon, he is a fool who refuses to stake a little time and win a hazard of great gain.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Few have lasted through extreme old age to death without impairment, and many have lain inert, making no use of themselves. How much more cruel then do you suppose it really is to have lost a portion of your life than to have lost your right to end that life? Do not hear me with reluctance as if my statement applied directly to you, but weigh what I have to say. It is this: That I shall not abandon old age if old age preserves me intact for myself, and intact as regards the better part of myself. But if old age begins to shatter my mind

• 25:37Speaker 01

  and to pull its various faculties to pieces, if it leaves me not life, but only the breath of life, I shall rush out of a house that is crumbling and tottering. I shall not avoid illness by seeking death as long as the illness is curable and does not impede my soul. I shall not lay violent hands upon myself just because I am in pain; for death, under such circumstances, is defeat. But if I find out that the pain must always be endured, I shall depart, not because of the pain, but because it will be a hindrance to me

• 26:21Speaker 01

  as regards all my reasons for living.

• 26:26Speaker 01

  He who dies just because he is in pain is a weakling, a coward. But he who lives merely to brave out this pain is a fool.

• 26:39Speaker 01

  Ah, but I am running on too long. And besides, there is matter here to fill a day. And how can a man end his life if he cannot end a latter? So farewell. This last word you will read with greater pleasure than all my deadly talk about death. Farewell.

• 27:03Ryan Holiday?

  Hey, it's Ryan. If you want to take your study of Stoicism to the next level, I want to invite you to join us over at Daily Stoic Life. We have daily conversations about the podcast episodes, about the daily email. We actually do a special weekend set of emails for everyone. You get all our daily Stoic courses and challenges totally for free. That's hundreds of dollars of value every single year, including our New Year, New You Challenge, which we're going to launch in January. You get a special cloth bound edition of the best of meditations that we've done. You get a bunch of cool stuff. It's an awesome community. I've loved being a part of it. I've loved getting to meet everyone who's trying to take their study of Stoicism to the next level. Love to have you join us. Check us out at DailyStoicLife.com.

• 27:47Ryan Holiday?

  We'd love to have you and join us on this digital stoia that we've staked out together and get better every day.