Justice Doesn't Have To Be Angry

When we hear about an athlete who was doubted and kicked around, or an entrepreneur who ends up buying the previously dominant company that once spurned them, we assume anger must have been the fuel that powered their comeback. When we hear about someone who spent years working in secret to right some long forgotten wrong, we think, “Oh that person must have been really angry.”Think about the case of Peter Thiel, who spent ten years conspiring to take down the powerful gossip outlet, Gawker Media, after they outed him as gay. The knee jerk take from most critics, then and now, is that he should have let it go—that it’s not healthy to be that mad about anything. But what if anger wasn’t the only fuel out there? In his powerful essay, On Anger, Seneca pushes back on this idea that getting even requires getting mad:“‘Does a good man not get angry? Even if he watches his father get killed or his mother raped?’ He won’t get angry, but he’ll avenge them or he’ll protect them. Why are you afraid that duty alone, without anger’s help, will be too little motivation for him?…The good man will carry out his duties without fear or turmoil; he’ll act in a manner worthy of a good man, such that he’ll avoid doing nothing unworthy of a man. My father is being killed; I’ll defend him. He has been killed; I’ll avenge him—but because it’s right, not because I’m grieved…”This is essentially the argument in Conspiracy: A True Story of Power, Sex, and a Billionaire’s Secret Plot to Destroy a Media Empire (out today in paperback), which draws not only on Peter Thiel’s conspiracy but many historical and Stoic-driven conspiracies, like the plot to kill Julius Caesar and the failed Piso-conspiracy which ultimately cost Seneca his life. Indeed, there is a rich history of Stoics plotting to overthrow tyrants and other evil-doers. Did they do this out of anger? Or was it, at least in their eyes, the pursuit of one of their most revered virtues? Justice. Seneca said that we must pursue what is right—which might occasionally involve punishment or vengeance—calmly and rationally. That it was ok to plot and scheme for the right aims, provided it was done “judiciously and with foresight, not driven and raging.”This is a controversial argument, of course, and not everyone will agree. But it’s worth thinking about and it’s worth understanding. Because life isn’t all sunshine and kittens. It’s not Plato’s Republic, as Marcus Aurelius reminds us. People do bad things. Organizations do evil. We will be doubted or held back. And that will require a response—from us—if it’s going to be overcome. What is not controversial is that anger is not how to respond. But rather, with creativity, cunning, determination, courage and strategy. So study the greats, learn their lessons, good and bad. P. S. Ryan Holiday’s book Conspiracy: A True Story of Power, Sex, and a Billionaire’s Secret Plot to Destroy A Media Empire is out in paperback today. The New York Times called it “one helluva pageturner” so if you’re looking for something to read this summer, give it a look. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info. 📢 Share | ⚙️ Manage Subscription

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:06Ryan Holiday?

  Welcome to The Daily Stoic, where each day we read a short passage designed to help you cultivate the strength, insight, wisdom necessary for living the good life. Each one of these passages is based on the 2,000-year-old philosophy that has guided some of history's greatest men and women. For more, you can visit us at DailyStoic.com. Justice doesn't have to be angry. When we hear about an athlete who is doubted and kicked around, or an entrepreneur who ends up buying the previously dominant company that once spurned them, we assume anger must have been the fuel that powered their comeback. When we hear about someone who spent years working in secret to right some long-forgotten

• 0:51Ryan Holiday?

  wrong, we think, "Oh, that person must have been really angry." Think about the case of Peter Thiel, who spent 10 years conspiring to take down the powerful gossip outlet Gawker Media after they outed him as gay. The knee-jerk take from most critics, then and now, is that he should have let it go, that it's not healthy to be that mad about anything. But what if anger wasn't the only fuel there? In his powerful essay on anger, Seneca pushes back on this idea that getting even requires getting mad. "Does a good man not get angry?" he asks. "Even if he watches his father killed or his mother raped, he won't get angry, but he'll avenge them or he'll protect them.

• 1:36Ryan Holiday?

  Why are you afraid that duty alone, without anger's help, will be too little motivation for him? The good man will carry out his duties without fear or turmoil. He'll act in a manner worthy of a good man, such that he'll avoid doing nothing unworthy of a man. My father is being killed," Seneca writes. "I'll defend him. He has been killed. I'll avenge him, because it's right, not because I'm grieved." This is essentially the argument in Conspiracy: A True Story of Power, Sex, and a Billionaire's Secret ...plot to destroy a media empire, out today in paperback, which draws not only on Peter Thiel's conspiracy, but many historical and even Stoic-driven conspiracies,

• 2:22Ryan Holiday?

  like the plot to kill Julius Caesar and the failed Piso conspiracy, which ultimately cost Seneca his life. Indeed, there is a rich history of Stoics plotting to overthrow tyrants and other evil doers. Did they do this out of anger? Or was it, at least in their eyes, the pursuit of one of their most revered virtues: justice? Seneca said that we must pursue what is right, which might occasionally involve punishment or vengeance, calmly or rationally, that it was okay to plot and scheme for the right aims, provided it was done, quote, "judiciously and with foresight, not driven and raging." This is a controversial argument, of course, and not everyone will agree, but it's worth thinking about

• 3:07Ryan Holiday?

  and it's worth understanding. Because life isn't all sunshine and kittens. It's not Plato's Republic, as Marcus Aurelius reminds us. People do bad things. Organizations do evil. We will be doubted or held back. And that will require a response from us if it's going to be overcome. What is not controversial is that anger is not how best to respond, but rather with creativity, cunning, determination, courage, and strategy. So study the greats, learn their lessons, good and bad. I do hope you'll check out Conspiracy. It's out now. I think it's one of the best books that I've ever written. Certainly one of the most interesting and difficult projects I've ever taken on. I think it's cinematic.

• 3:52Ryan Holiday?

  I think it's Shakespearean. Not my writing, of course, but the story. And I am very sure you will enjoy it. Check out the audiobook. If you like podcasts, I narrated it myself. Or it's also available now in paperback and, of course, in ebook as well. I hope you enjoy it. Thank you.