The Weaver Family

In this episode we are talking about the Weaver family. Ward Weaver Jr., Ward Weaver III, and Francis Weaver are three generations of Weavers who displayed vicious criminality. All experienced violence during childhood and went on to repeat the cycle of violence. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the Weaver family. Ward Weaver Jr committed murder and sexual assault. His son Ward Weaver III abducted and murdered Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis. His son Francis was ultimately involved in a murder as well. Nature vs. nurture is a question that comes up often in true crime cases, and this might be one of the most fascinating examinations of that. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford. ©2026 Emash Digital-All rights reserved. This content is the sole property of Emash Digital. Any unauthorized re-selling, re-purposing, or re-distribution, is strictly prohibited, and will be subject to legal action.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 392 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

• 0:43Speaker 00

  And this is Mike Morford.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Hey, Morph, what's going on this week, buddy?

• 0:47Speaker 00

  Not a whole lot, trying to get my sleep schedule coordinated because I woke up at 2:30 in the morning and I've been up ever since. And, you know, just I hate having that sleep schedule thrown off.

• 1:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, sleep is a big deal, man. It can really change your whole day, your week, can change a whole week if one day gets out of whack.

• 1:11Speaker 00

  And it just means more Napster in the week for me.

• 1:14Speaker 01

  You gotta do what you gotta do. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Henrietta Cole, Cheryl, and Ranger Gal. So that's a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it.

• 1:26Speaker 00

  Yeah, that is some awesome support. Thank you. For anyone else that would like to help support the show, head on over to patreon.com/criminology.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  So Morph, it's a new year, which is a reminder for us that there's an all new Crime Con, and it's going to be here before we know it.

• 1:42Speaker 00

  Yeah, Crime Con Las Vegas is happening May 29th through the 31st at Caesar's Palace in Las Vegas. So it's just four months from now. And that's the biggest true crime convention in the world, where you can meet all your favorite true crime celebs and catch up with old friends.

• 1:57Speaker 01

  And like you said, it's happening in Vegas, which is always a blast. We'll be there, of course, on Podcast Row, and we'll be having our annual Criminology TCAT meetup with listeners. So it's going to be a lot of fun.

• 2:10Speaker 00

  And if you're going, use our promo code, which is criminology. That'll save you 10% on their standard badges at crimecon.com when you check out. We hope to see a lot of people there.

• 2:19Speaker 01

  Right now that we have all of that out of the way, let's get into this week's case. On this show, we've talked a lot about cases involving entire families that become tragic victims of crimes, but we don't often talk about entire families that commit brutal crimes. And that's what we're going to talk about in this week's episode. Multiple terrible crimes committed by the same family, the Weaver family, over decades. This is not a good family. And when you hear what they did, you'll understand why.

• 2:54Speaker 00

  Let's start with Ward Weaver III and Maria Stout. Ward and Maria met in the Philippines in late 1981. Maria was born there and Ward found himself stationed there as a cook on the USS Coral Sea, right after high school graduation, as part of the United States Navy Reserve. But his military career didn't last very long at all. He was discharged in May 1982 due to dereliction of duty, likely caused by a severe drinking habit. After this, he and Maria ended up staying in the basement of his mother's house in Portland for some time.

• 3:27Speaker 01

  The relationship between Ward and Maria was, to say the least, rocky. In July of 1982, police were sent to speak to Maria, who was five months pregnant at the time, at a hospital because Ward had assaulted her. He pulled her hair, hit her, and slammed her headfirst into their bed's headboard. Ward was quickly arrested for aggravated assault. However, Maria didn't want to press any charges and wouldn't cooperate with the investigation, even though Ward's own mother, Trish, was there with her, begging her to stand up for herself. Trish told Oregon Live, "I kept hoping someone would listen. Someone would

• 4:09Speaker 01

  realize there was something wrong with this guy. Someone would pick up the ball and do something." Five months later, in December 1983, their son Francis Paul was born. They didn't know it at the time, but Ward was not the biological father of Francis. By 1984, Ward, Maria, and baby Francis were living in Bakersfield, California. Ward moved his family there to be closer to his father, Ward Jr., who we'll discuss more in depth later. That August, Ward and Maria got married. They also had their second son, Alex.

• 4:47Speaker 00

  On June 15th, 1986, when he was 23 years old, Ward was arrested for assault during what was likely an attempted rape. He had been out with friends at a bowling alley in Fairfield, California after a fight with Maria, and he got really intoxicated. Apparently, he knocked back six screwdrivers and six beers, along with smoking some marijuana and snorting a gram of speed. He was in no shape to drive home, so his friend's daughters, two teenagers, were tasked with taking him home safely. On the way, he had to urinate, so the driver, a 16-year-old, pulled over. Instead of actually relieving himself once he got out, Ward grabbed a chunk of concrete and opened the passenger door. He hit the younger girl over the head, knocking her out.

• 5:31Speaker 00

  Then he grabbed the driver from behind, putting her in a headlock and dragging her down onto the floor of the van.

• 5:37Speaker 01

  So there's two things that actually jump out at me here. I mean, one is, obviously, this was a very brutal attack. You're talking about two young girls hitting one over the head with a chunk of concrete. And then he obviously viciously assaulted the driver as well. But the other thing that jumped out at me is, I mean, you're talking about six screwdrivers, six beers, marijuana, and speed. That is a lot. And maybe it's just me because, you know, I don't drink a lot anymore these days, but I wouldn't even be able to function if I had all that, I don't believe.

• 6:22Speaker 00

  Yeah, and alcohol and drugs can definitely impair your thinking, your impulse control. You know, maybe he might not have done this stuff had he been sober, but then, then again, maybe he was capable of it and the drugs and alcohol just brought this out of him.

• 6:39Speaker 01

  But like you said, at the very least, it lowered his inhibition, right?

• 6:44Speaker 00

  And these are friends of his daughter's. It's not even like they were strangers, which would be bad as it is, but these are people he knows and, you know, they're gonna know who he is. So, you know, thankfully they're able to get away and contact the police.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  And Ward was arrested for this attack and went to prison for it. He was released in 1988 and he and Maria moved to Canby, Oregon. They tried to run a gift shop there, but gave that up pretty quickly. In 1993, Maria decided she had finally had enough. She filed for divorce and also filed a restraining order against Ward, seeking protection for herself and their now three young children. She and others in the family believed that he had started selling methamphetamine and cocaine. It was just going to be an increasingly dangerous situation if she had stayed. Any peace that came from having Ward out of their lives, though, was short-lived.

• 7:45Speaker 01

  In 1998, their son Francis was suspended from school after he choked another student. In 1999, Francis was arrested for aggravated assault in Shoshone, Idaho, where he was living with his uncle Rodney at the time. It's unclear whether or not this was an accident, but his supposed best friend was hurt when Francis shot a rifle at a truck that multiple people were riding in. He spent a few weeks in a juvenile detention facility, but it didn't really seem to change the path he was taking in life. It was clear that Francis Weaver was heading down the same path as his father, Ward.

• 8:26Speaker 00

  In October 2002, Francis allegedly threatened his aunt and two of his cousins, telling them that he would kill them. He got lucky in 2005 when he was acquitted on charges of burglary and robbery after breaking into a home and holding the residents hostage while trying to rob them. It's not clear how or why he was acquitted. That same year, his younger brother Alex Weaver pleaded guilty to charges of felony attempted assault in Oregon. He apparently hit someone in the head with a rubber mallet. He was sentenced to two years in prison and three years of supervised release.

• 8:59Speaker 01

  So Morph, as we head down this road, I mean, one thing that is apparent right from the get go, Ward Weaver's, he's not a good guy. But then you see two of his sons start to get in trouble. You know, a lot of people talk about the whole nature versus nurture thing. Some people think sometimes it's one or the other. Many people think it's both. But what do you make of two kids from the same family getting into this type of, you know, fairly serious trouble?

• 9:38Speaker 00

  Yeah, it seems to me like something's in that environment that's causing these kids to act out negatively and do these bad things. Now, some families, you know, have people in them like this that are dangers or felons, but other people in that family were able to escape that situation and leave productive lives. So it doesn't happen automatically. We know there are instances where people don't necessarily fall into those pitfalls.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  No, but it's hard not to think, right? That these two kids most likely witnessed their father's behavior and either thought, okay, this is how things are supposed to be done, or it had to have influenced them in some way. Francis Weaver continued down this troubled field road, but less than a decade later, in February 2014, his luck ran out when he was arrested and charged with murder in Canby, Oregon. While Francis was not the one who pulled the trigger that killed a man named Edward Kelly Spangler, it was his weapon, and he was the one who had helped lure him to his death. Francis

• 10:53Speaker 01

  told Spangler that he could help him get rid of 15 pounds of marijuana. So Spangler drove to his home in Canby with the product in his car. After multiple unsuccessful attempts to break out one of the windows and steal the suitcase full of weed, when Spangler was away from the car, Francis's next door neighbor, Michael Orin, shot Spangler twice while he was in the driver's seat. Spangler tried to drive away, crashing into multiple parked cars before he hit a tree, climbed out of the car and lost consciousness, ultimately dying of his injuries. After a lengthy wait for trial on charges of murder, first and second degree robbery, conspiracy to commit first

• 11:38Speaker 01

  and second degree robbery, and being a felon in possession of a firearm, the 33-year-old Francis Weaver was found guilty and was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum of 25 years served before the possibility of parole. This development shocked people who knew Francis, yes, Francis and even his brother Alex had been in trouble in the past, but none of the things they had done in the past held the weight of a murder charge. And it made people wonder if the Weaver family was somehow cursed, or if there's a gene for evil or murder that can be

• 12:18Speaker 01

  passed down through generations. Obviously, knowing that Francis was not Ward's biological son, it can't be a gene. So this goes back to, you know, what we were talking about earlier. Did Francis learn to be evil? Possibly from war?

• 12:37Speaker 00

  When Francis Weaver's name hit the headlines relating to a murder, everyone was reminded of his father, Ward III. Ward Weaver III was born in Humboldt County, California on April 6, 1963, to Ward Weaver Jr. And his wife Trish. The year he turned four, his father took off, leaving the family behind. Trish remarried a man named Bob Brudro, and they all moved up to Portland, Oregon. Just after graduating high school and right before leaving for the Philippines, Ward was accused of rape by a younger female relative. It's not clear why, but prosecutors decided not to charge Ward, apparently in part because he was about to ship out, and they were happy that he would be out of the area,

• 13:19Speaker 00

  which is certainly some injustice for the young family member he victimized. Ward Weaver III found himself in the Philippines, a free man, where he met Maria. We already talked about his discharge from the Navy Reserve and his history of domestic violence and the attack on his friends' daughters that landed him in prison.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  And Morpheus and I have done cases where it seems, you know, years ago, sometimes there was this feeling by the prosecution that it would be better if the person just left. I mean, I think some people were given the option of joining the military, leaving town. But like you said, right? Obviously, a major injustice for the person, in this case, a family member who was victimized.

• 14:10Speaker 00

  Yeah, that really seems like a case of, you know, kicking the can down the road. It's somebody else's problem now. How do we know he's not going to do that same stuff in another city or in this case, maybe in another country? You know, I think they should have tried to prosecute him and put him in for, put him in jail for whatever time they could put him in there.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  But that's something that that we see all the time, right? Especially you go back decades.

• 14:37Speaker 01

  Well, let's look at his attack on these two girls who were trying to drive him home. What did he ultimately serve? A year or two? I mean, that, you know, seems to be a pattern that we see in, in some of these older cases. In July of 1995, Ward Weaver, the third was arrested again, this time for aggravated assault after he beat his girlfriend, 18 year old Christie Salem with a cast iron skillet. Charges were ultimately dropped because like Maria before her, Christie did not want to cooperate with authorities. She was too afraid of being on Ward's bad side to speak against him, let

• 15:21Speaker 01

  alone testify. And more if I think this is, you know, something else that, that we touch on frequently. People who are in relationships where they're, they're being abused. How tough is it for them to cooperate with authorities, testify? They're already scared to death from what they're experiencing at home, day in, day out. You know, what are they going to do to this guy? What if it's just a slap on the wrist and then he's out? I can see why people sometimes don't want to cooperate because they're not sure of

• 16:06Speaker 01

  what's going to happen and what the ultimate retribution could be.

• 16:11Speaker 00

  Yeah. And especially with this guy, he's got a history of sort of slipping through the cracks and being out. So these are the people that have to be around him and they know what he's capable of. So I don't blame them either for, for not wanting to speak out against him or press the issue with him.

• 16:30Speaker 01

  But despite this brutal incident, Ward and Christie got married in February of 1996. They stayed married for four years, but he was seeing other women most if not all of that time. In 2002, Ward was living in Oregon City, Oregon, in a home he had been renting for the past few years. That January on the 9th, 12-year-old Ashley Pond disappeared on her way to the school bus stop, about an eight-minute walk from her unit. She was last seen by her family around 8 o'clock that morning as she headed out the door after breakfast. By 8:19, when the bus arrived, Ashley had already disappeared.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  However, her family didn't realize this until 6:00 PM because Ashley was on the dance team and the swim team. Because of her extracurricular activities, she was rarely home right after school.

• 17:24Speaker 00

  At first, many people thought that Ashley had run away and that she would eventually turn up unharmed. But as time went on, it became obvious that it was more likely that something bad had happened to her. She had been excited for her dance team practice the afternoon she disappeared. Why would she run away but for something she seemed to be looking forward to so much? Just five months before her disappearance, Ashley had accused Ward of trying to sexually assault her. She filed a police report about the incident, but for some reason, no charges were ever filed. Multiple people had also voiced their concern, including a teacher, about Ward's inappropriate relationship with Ashley. She had been a victim of sexual assault by her own father and was incredibly vulnerable.

• 18:08Speaker 00

  While many viewed Ward's relationship with her as protective and paternal, others could tell something was wrong, including the teacher, who saw them kiss on the mouth and filed a report. Nothing came of any of this, even after she disappeared.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  And this is just, this is absolutely despicable. I mean, there's a lot going on that's despicable here. I mean, there's allegations of, you know, sexual assault.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  Obviously, we know that Ashley goes missing, but this teacher seeing Ward kiss this 12 year old girl on the mouth. I mean, at least the teacher filed the report, did what they were supposed to do. But then what happens, right? Seemingly nothing. You would think, especially after she disappears, all of this, the accusations, the report about seeing this grown man kiss a 12 year old on the mouth would put him in the spotlight.

• 19:18Speaker 00

  Yeah, this guy seems to be made of Teflon because nothing is sticking to him. He's got this record and here's this incident with this young girl and it's just basically ignored or slipped through the cracks somehow. I don't understand how that happens. And this is not a guy you want hanging around with your, with a young girl. Based on his history, he has no business being anywhere near this young girl. So when she goes missing, you know, I would think that police would naturally want to look at this guy as one of the potential suspects.

• 19:54Speaker 01

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• 21:18Speaker 01

  Two months after Ashley vanished, 13 year old Miranda Gaddis also disappeared on her way to the bus she took to school. Her mother last saw her at 7:30 that morning as she said goodbye and headed out to work. By 8:19, when the bus arrived, Miranda had already disappeared. By 1:20 PM, her mother had been informed that she didn't show up to school. Both Ashley and Miranda lived in this same apartment complex, the Newell Creek Village Apartments, and were both students at Gardner Middle School, where they were also members of the dance team. They were close friends. Miranda's disappearance renewed the thought with some people that Ashley had run away.

• 22:01Speaker 01

  Maybe now Miranda had gone to join her friend. Whether they had left voluntarily together or had met with foul play, as the authorities began to suspect, it seemed highly likely that their disappearances were connected. According to the LA Times, Beth Ann Steele, spokeswoman for the FBI, explained, there is a growing belief that the cases are related. And while there's a slight hope that they have run away, there is a growing belief that there was some kind of criminal activity involved.

• 22:35Speaker 00

  Miranda's mother, Michelle Duffy, told the LA Times and was adamant that her daughter wouldn't have gotten in the car with someone she didn't know. Other residents at the Newell Creek Village Apartments agreed when speaking to the LA Times. Neighbor Kim Hamlin said, I keep thinking to myself, it had to be someone they knew. For a stranger to have come in and violently abducted them, somebody would have had to see something, but no one did. It's like they vanished into thin air. As a safety precaution, the school buses began to pick up and drop off students directly in front of their homes. Both of the missing girls were friends with Ward Weaver's youngest daughter, 12-year-old Mallory. The two spent the night at the Weaver home multiple times, and the house he rented was right across the street from the Newell Creek Village apartment

• 23:20Speaker 00

  complex.

• 23:22Speaker 01

  Suspiciously, Ward poured a big area of concrete in his backyard, according to his ex-wife Christie Sloan, the one he once hit multiple times with a cast iron skillet. This was just three days after Miranda's disappearance that the concrete was poured. The two were still married at the time it was poured, so she remembered it very well. One of Ward's young sons helped him dig the hole, not knowing what it was for. When asked, Ward claimed he was putting in a hot tub. At some point, a search dog alerted to the possible presence of human remains near the concrete slab that was supposedly

• 24:03Speaker 01

  for the hot tub, but authorities still felt that they didn't have enough probable cause for any kind of search or arrest. In an odd move on Ward's part, he actually participated in an interview with a reporter named Anna Song of the Oregonian. While he was answering questions, he actually walked the reporter right over the top of that concrete slab, which was pointed out during the interview. He told her, "I'm putting in a jacuzzi," and added, "The last time I checked, that wasn't against the law." He claimed that he was the FBI's number one suspect, and openly admitted that he had failed two separate polygraph

• 24:44Speaker 01

  examinations. He also walked a reporter and a cameraman through his home, taking them right past a deep freezer, that investigators would later come to believe was used to hold at least one of the bodies for some time. And more, you know, there are a lot of killers who do everything in their power, not to draw any attention to themselves, but there are quite a few who seem to almost revel in the attention. I mean, he didn't have to do an interview with this reporter and he doesn't have to take them on a tour of the home. The, the thing that really jumped out

• 25:29Speaker 01

  at me is him saying, hey, I'm the FBI's number one suspect. I failed two polygraph exams. It's, it's almost like he's getting a thrill from knowing he's done something, but they can't prove it.

• 25:48Speaker 00

  It's almost like he's thumbing a nose at the investigators. Like you can't do anything and I'm giving all these hints. He might as well have a, a red flashing light above his house that says suspect with, you know, his history, the inappropriate stuff with one of the girls that's missing, the fresh concrete poured. It, I don't know how you could make yourself look any more suspicious. In August of 2002, months after the girls had vanished, 22-year-old Francis Weaver actually called 911 on his own father. This is part of why so many people were shocked when he was later involved in a murder. He seemed to be the one that was going to break

• 26:31Speaker 00

  the cycle. Francis reported to authorities in that call that Ward had sexually assaulted his girlfriend and he had choked her when she tried to resist him. She was able to get away from him, completely nude and covered in nothing but a shower curtain. She ran from the home screaming. Authorities responding to the call noted that the home was nearly empty and Ward's car was full of his belongings. It looked like he had been about to skip town when he seized the opportunity to attack his son's girlfriend. He asked her to help him move something to the car. And when she bent over to grab it, he pounced on her.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Ward Weaver was arrested and charged with the attempted aggravated murder and rape of Francis's girlfriend. After the arrest, one of his sons, reports differ on which one, told investigators that he believed his father was involved in the disappearances and what he thought were likely to be the murders of Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis. While Ward was in custody, his property was searched and it brought the answers no one ever actually wanted. The worst case scenario. On August 24th, police found Miranda's body. She had been wrapped in plastic bags, covered by a tarp and stuffed into a cardboard box that originally held

• 27:49Speaker 01

  the microwave. This box was hidden inside a shed on the property. Her body showed signs of having been frozen at some point.

• 27:59Speaker 00

  There was no sign of Ashley's body, but police were not going to sit by without seeing what was under that cement pad. So they excavated it on August 25th. They found Ashley. She had been shoved into a 55 gallon barrel and buried. Ropes were still tied around her neck and wrist. The medical examiner was unable to determine a cause of death for either of the girls due to the state of the remains. While the news of the remains being found was not what people had hoped for, it brought answers to the families and the neighborhood showed its support as residents turned the fence outside the Weaver home into a memorial for the girls, leaving signs, candles, toys, and even a pair of angel wings.

• 28:39Speaker 01

  And I was thinking about this earlier when we talked about, you know, Ward pouring a cement pad. That seems to be a really bad sign in so many cases. If someone goes missing, all of a sudden, the suspect is pouring some type of cement pad. Now they're saying they're doing so because they're putting in a hot tub, a jacuzzi, but it often turns out that they poured it because they buried a body under it.

• 29:14Speaker 00

  And in his case, he had the reporter there showing it to her and bragging about it that it wasn't against the law to, to put it there. It almost seems to me like he was trying to use reverse, reverse psychology, like.

• 29:28Speaker 00

  How could I possibly be brazen enough to hide this body there and then talk about it and show a reporter? There certainly has to be nothing under there worth looking at. So I almost feel like he was just trying to oversell the fact that it would be too obvious there was a body there.

• 29:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but like I said, right? I think some people ravel in the attention. I also think that a lot of these individuals, they just think they're smarter than everybody else and certainly smarter than the investigators. Now, very rarely are they, but I mean, there are some very smart criminals. We've covered many of them. But like you said, to kind of thumb your nose at the authorities, it's like, you know, why are you poking the bear other than you're getting some kind of sick thrill out of doing it? After Ward Weaver's

• 30:27Speaker 01

  arrest, his son Francis told CBS that he was happy that his father would never be able to hurt anyone ever again, nor destroy any lives, ironic since he too would go on to do the same. Ward's daughter, 12-year-old Mallory, ended up in foster care. She requested visitation with her father behind bars, which was granted by a judge over the objections of prosecutors and child social workers. Meanwhile, Ward continued to maintain his innocence and seemed to bask in the attention the case gave him, talking to yet another reporter, this time from jail. It was an interview with KPTV Portland, in which Ward

• 31:12Speaker 01

  said, "I was publicly tried and convicted before I was indicted." His argument was that the district attorney's office would be unable to prove his guilt because they had not been able to determine how the girls had died. "They indicted me for stuff they have no evidence on, zero. Yes, there were two bodies in my backyard, but that's all there is." Now, I would think to most people, two bodies in your backyard would be the end of the world. But he's saying it as, ah, you know, that's all there is, just two bodies. You can't prove anything.

• 31:49Speaker 00

  Yeah, two bodies buried, one of them buried under the cement pad that he laid. So this guy just thinks he's so grandiose that nothing can faze him, it seems like.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's pretty hard to make the argument that somebody else put the, at least that body there, right? When it's underneath the concrete slab that you poured.

• 32:15Speaker 00

  Finally, in the summer of 2004, Ward Weaver III was deemed competent to stand trial. Instead, he decided to plead guilty, only if the death penalty was dropped as a possible sentence. Due to the plea deal, he was slapped with two life sentences to be served consecutively for the murders of Ashley Pond and Miranda Gaddis. Neither sentence included the possibility of parole. Many people criticized authorities for taking so long to find the girls when they were literally right across the street, murdered at the home of someone who had been accused of sexually assaulting one of them. It was almost too obvious, and still it took so long. In fact, many people believe that Miranda could have been saved if authorities had followed the right trail after Ashley's disappearance.

• 32:59Speaker 00

  But others, including those close to the girls, were just happy that it was over. Miranda's grandfather, Wes Duffy, told CBS News, "What I know is, the police took the time they needed, and they did it right."

• 33:12Speaker 01

  And I can absolutely understand the criticism by some of the police. I mean, we've talked about some of the reasons why. Just the fact that Ward was accused of sexually assaulting one of the girls should have been enough, right, to take a look at him. But, you know, add in all of the other things. His daughter was friends with these girls. They were on the dance team. You know, where he lived in proximity to where they lived.

• 33:49Speaker 01

  And there's just a lot of stuff here to not have him very high on the list, at the very least, be looking into him.

• 33:58Speaker 00

  And it seems like a lot of circumstantial evidence, at least pointing to him, but I think it comes down to maybe the ability to have enough to get probable cause for that search warrant to go, you know, digging up his yard. They can't just take a sledgehammer to his patio, even if they suspect that they're going to find a body. They actually need something more than that. And, you know, I think that's probably what happened here. I think the police probably highly suspected him, but they just couldn't do anything to prove that he was the killer.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and that absolutely could have been the case. And maybe it's just not been, you know, made public, but if they were looking at him closely, should he have been able to then commit the murder of another young girl? I think maybe that's the issue some people have. So up to this point, we've talked about the crimes of Francis Weaver and his father, Ward Weaver, the third. And although, as we mentioned, Francis was not the biological son of Ward, he seemed to carry on a long line of really bad behavior in

• 35:09Speaker 01

  this family. And it didn't start with Ward Weaver, the third. It started with his father, Ward Weaver, Jr. We mentioned earlier that Ward Weaver, the third, had moved his family to Bakersfield to be closer to his father, Ward, Jr. Well, that was true in a way because geographically they'd be close. But what we didn't mention earlier was that they were there to support Ward, Jr., because he was awaiting trial for his own criminal deeds. A double murder that was eerily similar to the murders his son Ward would later commit. So let's talk a little bit about Ward Weaver, Jr.

• 35:52Speaker 00

  In early May 1981, 18-year-old David Galbraith and his 15-year-old girlfriend were hitchhiking in Oregon when they were picked up by Ward Weaver Jr. He drove them all the way to the Oxnard, California area. When they arrived, Ward stopped at a payphone, called a man named Jared Daniels to come meet them. When he arrived, he took David at gunpoint and drove him to a secluded area along Highway 33 near Rose Valley and opened fire on him. David was hit by two bullets in the head, and he was either pushed or fell down an embankment before Daniels fled the scene. Miraculously, David Galbraith survived, climbed up to the highway, and was able to flag down a car and get help.

• 36:34Speaker 01

  While Jared Daniels was out shooting David, David's young girlfriend was being sexually assaulted by Ward Weaver Jr. Thankfully, after he raped her, he let her go in the town of Marysville without killing her, but he warned her that he'd kill her parents if she told anyone. She went right to the police, who soon reunited her with her boyfriend David. Together, they gave police enough info that led to both Ward Weaver Jr. and Jared Daniels being arrested. It was while Ward Jr. was in prison on charges of kidnapping and rape awaiting trial that he proudly boasted to one of his cellmates that he had actually gotten away with murder.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  This inmate quickly flipped to try to get himself out of prison sooner by telling police what Ward Jr. had confessed to, and this is how the bodies of Ward Jr.'s murder victims were found.

• 37:31Speaker 00

  Like his son would later do, Ward Jr. had also randomly poured concrete in the backyard. He said he had done it so that when his wife went out to hang the laundry, her feet wouldn't get muddy from the grass. Sounds like a nice gesture, but in reality, it was actually to hide the bodies of 18-year-old Robert Radford and his girlfriend, 23-year-old Barbara Lavoy. Like Ward III did, Ward Jr. had his young son, 10-year-old Rodney, help him dig the hole. He told the boy that they needed to locate a broken pipe.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Robert Radford and Barbara Lavoie had been on a road trip together in February 1981, heading to Las Vegas when they had car trouble. They were pulled off onto the side of Highway 58 in Tehachapi, California, when Ward Weaver Jr., who worked as a long-distance truck driver, came across them. It was about 10:00 PM when he offered to help them out by giving them a ride to Mojave. About 20, 25 miles southeast of Tehachapi, they accepted the ride, not knowing it would lead to their deaths. Ward Jr. used a metal pipe to bludgeon Robert to death. He kidnapped Barbara, stopping to sexually assault her multiple times throughout a

• 38:47Speaker 01

  drive to San Francisco, where he dropped off his freight. Then, he drove with Barbara in the cab toward his home in Oroville. On the way, he pulled over in a remote area and tried to tie Barbara up and gag her with a cloth diaper, but she bit his hand. This enraged him, and he strangled her to death with the diaper. Following the murders, Ward Jr. showed up at his home and was immediately questioned by his son Rodney about the bloody wound on his thumb. Ward Jr. told Rodney that he had been in a bar fight. And we said it up front, Morf, I mean, this is a family, generations of individuals committing,

• 39:32Speaker 01

  you know, pretty awful crimes. But I do want to take a minute and talk about David Galbraith and his girlfriend. I mean, first of all, David was shot twice in the head and then either pushed or, you know, he fell down this embankment. It's incredible to me that-

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Number one, he survived, but that he was able to climb up this embankment and get to the highway to, you know, flag down a car for help. And then on top of that, even though Ward Jr. Had told this girl that he would kill her parents if she told anyone, she went right to the police. I mean, this is an incredible story of bravery on the part of both of these individuals.

• 40:27Speaker 00

  And because they did come forward, police were able to find enough information to identify Ward Jr. And his cohort and arrest them. Ward Weaver Jr. Was sentenced to death for the murders of Barbara Lavoie and Robert Radford. He had already been serving time for those kidnapping and rape charges and the attack on David Galbraith and his girlfriend. But now he was moved to death row. These two separate attacks of couples were not Ward Jr.'s first violent attacks. He had also previously served one year in jail for rape in 1978. A look into Ward Jr.'s past revealed that he had a rough childhood. His father, Ward Senior, the first Ward Weaver, was physically and sexually abusive to his wife Dorothy,

• 41:10Speaker 00

  who would in turn take drugs and abuse her children, including Ward Jr.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  When Dorothy finally refused all advances from Ward Senior, he started bringing other women home. He was abusive to them too. The relationship between Dorothy and her son, Ward Junior, was not a normal one. Dorothy made Ward Junior sleep in her bed, apparently even on his wedding night, when he was 18 years old, while also telling him nasty things like all men deserve to be castrated. At the same time, Ward Senior was sexually abusing his daughter. Eventually, he would sexually abuse two of his granddaughters, Ward Junior's

• 41:54Speaker 01

  daughters. It was just a terrible situation. And while it's not a justification or an excuse for the crimes these family members later committed, I think what it does do is give context and maybe help us understand the trauma and the debauchery that may have played a role in driving them to commit these crimes. Ward Jr. Had joined the military and in the army, served in the Vietnam War and came back with terrible psychological trauma, which certainly could not have helped.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  And for me, you know, it's pretty easy to see, you know, there was a cycle of violence. Started with Ward Senior. Well, who would have witnessed that? Ward Jr. Ward Jr. Became violent. Who would have witnessed it? Ward Weaver, the third. It's impossible for me not to believe that some of the behavior that these people witnessed played a large part in them ultimately committing their own crimes.

• 43:09Speaker 00

  It's well known that people that are abused many times go on to abuse others. So it's not surprising at all that these men in this family that went through this would go on to do it to other people. But I do think it's interesting to think how some people go through terrible experiences of abuse and this kind of life, but don't turn out to be serial killers because there are a lot of people that go through terrible stuff like this and don't wind up killing people. So I wonder what it is that makes some people cross that line and, and go over to that dark side where they commit these kinds of crimes.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Why? And there's also people that experience horrible abuse that don't go on to abuse anybody. And that's why I kind of think in a case like this, you probably can't point to just one thing, right? It's a, it's an amalgamation of a lot of different things. You know, could it be genes? I don't know. You know, there's so much debate about that, but there's no doubt that what they experienced had to have played a part.

• 44:22Speaker 00

  After Ward Weaver Jr. Was arrested, investigators in the Northwest wondered if he could be responsible for other murders in that area. According to prosecutor Ron Shoemaker, Ward Jr.'s trucking logs put him in the vicinity of around two dozen unsolved hitchhiker disappearances or murders throughout the states of Washington, Oregon, and California. While Shoemaker found it unlikely that Ward Jr. Was actually responsible for all the cases, he did tell bakersfield.com, but a good percentage, I bet he did. If he's correct, that would make Ward Jr. Serial killer and the Weaver family's collective crimes even more awful.

• 45:00Speaker 01

  On March 4th, 2007, Ward Weaver III was attacked by fellow inmate Marvin Lee Taylor, who worked as a barber at the Snake River Correctional Institution. While cutting Ward's hair, Taylor used a shank to stab him in the shoulder and neck. Ward was treated at the infirmary, and he survived the incident. In 2009, Miranda Gaddis's younger sister, Mariah, visited Ward Jr. At the Oregon State Penitentiary and asked him questions about what he did to her sister and Ashley Pond. She told the Portland Tribune, "I had to know what happened. It was the only way I could put it behind me."

• 45:43Speaker 01

  Mariah, like many other young girls in the area, was shocked when Ward was named as a suspect. He had made a big impression on them as a fun, kind, and giving man. Mariah told the Tribune, "He gave us money and told us to get something to eat. Then we said it was hot, and he went out and bought us a pool." Many kids like to spend time at the Weaver home.

• 46:09Speaker 00

  Ward explained to Mariah exactly what happened. He claimed that Miranda startled him that morning when he was doing something he didn't want anyone to know about. So he told Miranda that Ashley had returned home and was inside his house. Miranda, of course, ran right over and she was killed right away. He claimed that he had only killed Ashley so that he wouldn't get into trouble for sexually assaulting her. Ward told Mariah that he used his hands to strangle both girls. He also revealed to Mariah that she would have been next. Whether this was just a power play for thrills or the truth, it still had to be chilling to hear. This meeting left Mariah incredibly depressed. She told the Tribune, "When I got home, I started dwelling on all the things he said.

• 46:53Speaker 00

  I couldn't get it out of my mind and I felt like killing myself."

• 46:56Speaker 01

  And I understand, you know, wanting to talk to somebody like this, get the truth. Oh, man, I just don't know. I don't know if it's a good thing. And in this situation, it sounds like, at least for Mariah, it probably wasn't. If it put her in such a bad state of mind later on.

• 47:20Speaker 00

  Yeah, I think she really wanted answers and maybe just wasn't prepared for the darkness that he'd be revealing to her. And I'm sure he got a thrill out of it too, because he probably felt pride in reliving it and was excited. And even in telling her that she would have been a victim, he probably got some enjoyment out of that too. So she went there looking for answers and I think, you know, maybe he didn't help her as much as she hoped it would.

• 47:49Speaker 01

  Well, you know, let's face it, these guys are, you know, looking for power. And once they're incarcerated, they have so very little of it. So an opportunity like this to exert his power over someone else again, he would revel in that. That would be a big deal to him. Apparently, the Weaver family's run ins with the law didn't stop with the men in the family, as even Ward Weaver III's daughter Mallory, who was friends with Ashley and Miranda, had also had some run ins with the law. She was acquitted in December of 2010 on charges of attempted assault, disorderly conduct, criminal trespassing, and harassment,

• 48:34Speaker 01

  after she allegedly attacked a hospital security guard. And we've been talking throughout this episode, right? What was the cause of all this? Was it learned behavior? Was there some kind of evil gene being passed down from generation to generation? That last one seems unlikely, as Francis Weaver was not the biological son of Ward III, and Ward III was not raised by his father, Ward Jr. He didn't have a ton of interaction with him growing up. So, in the end, I think it's really kind of hard to say why this

• 49:14Speaker 01

  family did the terrible things that they did. But for me, I still lean towards the environment, the nurture side, more than I do the evil gene side of things.

• 49:30Speaker 00

  And I think retired Kern County Detective Glenn Johnson has his own theory. He told the Daily Iowan, "Our parents are our teachers," and Ward Weaver III had a horrible teacher in his father. Another retired Kern County Detective Gary Davis told the Iowan, "It seems like he set out to get a cell next to his father." They had both worked the investigation into Ward Weaver Jr. You have to wonder how many Weaver family members are out there in total, if they are law-abiding citizens trying to distance themselves from the criminal element of the family? Or might there be some family member who could be headed down the same path?

• 50:06Speaker 01

  81-year-old Ward Francis Weaver Jr. is currently incarcerated at the California Healthcare Facility in Stockton. 62-year-old Ward Francis Weaver III is serving his sentence at Two Rivers Correctional Institution in Umatilla, Oregon.

• 50:26Speaker 01

  43 year old Francis Paul Weaver is still behind bars at Eastern Oregon Correctional Institution in Pendleton. His earliest release date is in October of 2030. So Morph, as we wrap this case up, you know, we're really looking at three generations of family who are behind bars. And obviously they are where they belong. They did the things they were accused of, right? They were found guilty. In some cases even confessed to it. But I think this is

• 51:05Speaker 01

  a big reason why, you know, this case is shocking to so many people. How can you have so many people in one family, three different generations, who are involved in, you know, very horrible, despicable crimes?

• 51:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you would hope that at some point the cycle would be broken and this would stop. But, you know, with at least these three generations we're talking about, that wasn't the case. There, there's a lot of victims between the three of them. And I'm thinking there's a possibility there could be more.

• 51:42Speaker 01

  Oh, I, I think that possibility always exists, but you talk about the cycle being broken. I, I think it's hard when you're witnessing the kind of behavior that each subsequent generation was witnessing. Not impossible. People do it all the time, but it has to have a psychological effect, right, on you. You're seeing things that at a young age, you shouldn't be seeing. You're seeing violence. At what point do you start to believe that, you know, this is how things work? This is how it should be. Violence towards

• 52:25Speaker 01

  women is okay, because this is what my dad did. It's just a very scary thought.

• 52:32Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's just the collective of these three men, the stuff they did.

• 52:40Speaker 00

  Going back over, it's just terrible. Each one sort of their own portion of, of just a frightening story. It's each like, has their own chapter. And the crimes, each one we went through were just, they seem like they got worse and worse. Like, there's no bottom to what these guys were capable of.

• 53:04Speaker 01

  No, I'm with you. There's probably a lot we don't know about. But to be honest with you, I almost always think that's the case. But no doubt, you know, a kind of a, just a, a rough family, bad family. At least the men, right? The men in the family were, and I'm sure still are because they're alive, just not good people. But that's it for our episode on the Weavers. As always, if you haven't done so yet and you love the show, go out, take a minute, leave us a rating, a review. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really goes a long way.

• 53:45Speaker 00

  If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. So just search for Criminology Podcast on your favorites. And if you want to listen to old episodes or get news about the show, head over to our website, criminologypodcast.com. And finally, if you want to join a Facebook discussion group, check out Criminology Podcast, Discussion and Fans.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  So that's it for another episode of Criminology. But Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike.

• 54:15Speaker 00

  And Morph.

• 54:16Speaker 01

  We'll talk to you next week.

• 54:18Speaker 00

  Take care, everyone.