Pod Insights Criminology The Hunt for Travis Decker About this episode On May 30th, 2025, thirty-two-year-old Travis Decker went to his ex-wife Whitney Decker's home to pick up his 3 daughters, all under the age of ten, for a visit. A few days later all three girls were found murdered and Travis was nowhere to be found. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss Travis Decker. After the murders were discovered, the authorities didn't know for sure whether Travis was the perpetrator or a victim himself. But that picture soon became clear after DNA results came back. What ensued was a manhunt for Travis Decker, who quickly became one of the most hated men on the planet. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford.
Transcript 0:00 Speaker 00 Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.
0:37 Speaker 01 Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 380 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.
0:43 Speaker 02 And this is Mike Morford.
0:45 Speaker 01 Mr. Morford, how you doing, buddy?
0:46 Speaker 02 I'm doing pretty good. I'm, you know, doing some projects around the yard and doing some landscaping stuff and just keeping busy with that when I'm not making episodes of criminology. What have you been up to?
0:58 Speaker 01 Been hanging out with family a lot. The weather's starting to cool down here, at least where I am, which is kind of nice. You know, we're getting those fall colors and I love that time of year. I think you and I've talked about it before. The only bad part about fall is that, you know, in the north, you know, you're one step away from cold winter. That's the only bad part.
1:22 Speaker 02 And you've got to rake up leaves too, in a lot of areas.
1:25 Speaker 01 Oh, sure, sure. It all comes with it. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Sonia Bellomini, M. Brad Yorton, and Fearhagen. So a lot of great new support. We really appreciate it.
1:40 Speaker 02 Yeah, that's awesome support. Thank you so much. And for everyone else that supports the show, we appreciate it. If you want to help, head over to patreon.com/criminology to get started.
1:49 Speaker 01 All right, it's time to jump into this week's case, and it's very likely that many of our listeners will be familiar with this one for a couple of reasons. First, because it unfolded recently, and then secondly, it involves the search for a cold-blooded killer that did the unthinkable, murdered his own children. We're talking about Travis Decker. We're going to discuss his shocking crime and then get into the hunt that ensued to bring him to justice. While the ending wasn't the one that, you know, a lot of people had hoped for, others think that it was the perfect resolution.
2:25 Speaker 02 At around 5:00 PM on May 30th, 2025, 32-year-old Travis Decker went to his ex-wife, Whitney Decker's home in Wenatchee Valley, Washington, to pick up his three daughters for a visit. The girls were Peyton, who was nine years old, Evelyn, who was eight, and Olivia, who was five. This was a regularly scheduled visit, like one that had happened many times. Travis and Whitney talked for about 15 minutes or so before Travis left with the girls. It was a conversation that seemed uneventful to Whitney at the time, completely normal. The one thing Whitney noticed was that Travis was a bit quieter than usual, but other than that, nothing seemed off. The plan was for Travis to have the girls back to Whitney's by 8:00 PM that night, but sadly, Whitney would never see her children again.
3:11 Speaker 01 8:00 PM came and went, and there was no sign of Travis and the girls, so Whitney called Travis's cellphone, which went straight to voicemail. This alarmed Whitney because she could always get ahold of Travis by phone. The girls had no overnight supplies with them, let alone anything that would be useful for a longer trip. For the next two hours, Whitney waited near her phone to hear back from Travis, but she never did. So around 10:00 PM, Whitney called the Wenatchee Police Department to report her daughters and Travis missing. Unfortunately, the criteria to put out an Amber Alert wasn't met because the parent with custodial rights being laid didn't qualify as an abduction, and the children
3:55 Speaker 01 weren't believed to be at risk of imminent danger. Police would later learn that that night Travis's truck was seen heading west on Highway 2. An Amber Alert may have changed the outcome of the story, but we'll never know. Although an Amber Alert wasn't issued, an Endangered Missing Person Alert through the Washington State Patrol was put out. And there's a couple of things here, more if you know, that are running through my mind. You know, this is a, you know, a pretty common thing. And when you're talking about a couple who's divorced, who has children exchanging, you know, the kids, one person takes them, then drops them off.
4:40 Speaker 01 That's very normal and a lot of people go through that. But I can also, you know, try to get into the mind of Whitney, you know, as the hours tick by and, you know, the girls are supposed to be home by eight o'clock. Eight o'clock comes and goes. Okay, you start to worry a little bit, especially when you can't get a hold of Travis on the phone. And then by 10 o'clock, I think most people with still no contact would start to get very worried in that situation.
5:16 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think for Whitney, she was probably, you know, extra worried because this was out of character for Travis. You know, if this had been a habitual thing where, you know, she would say to herself, okay, this is just Travis. He's always late. He's always 45 minutes late, an hour late. You know, she might not be as concerned, but because he didn't typically do stuff like this, I think it was right for her to immediately be concerned.
5:41 Speaker 01 Well, and the thing is, you know, nowadays and for the past 20 plus years, we've just been so used to being able to get a hold of people pretty much immediately. Right? The cell phone has dramatically changed that aspect of life. You know, pre-cell phone, and you and I have talked about it a number of times. It was a lot harder to get a hold of people. I mean, if they weren't at home, good luck. If you didn't know where they were, how were you supposed to get a hold of them? Well, the cell phone changed all that because almost everybody has a cell phone nowadays and they always have it with them.
6:24 Speaker 01 And most people answer the phone for people they want to talk to. So I think that just adds to the level of worry.
6:32 Speaker 02 Yep. Back in the eighties, I remember, you know, there were certain instances where I'd be concerned for, you know, my mom was at home when she said she would be.
6:41 Speaker 01 You know, I didn't come home, maybe because something happened. My parents were worried about me and you just had no way to get a hold of somebody. I'm thinking here in Whitney's situation, you know, any number of scenarios could be running through her head. Is there a car accident? Did something else happened? What's going on here? So she's probably beside herself.
7:02 Speaker 02 There was no sign of Travis and enough time passed that police concerned him to be on the run. And Travis was officially charged with three counts of custodial interference for not returning the three girls after the scheduled visitation time was over and a warrant was issued for his arrest. Whitney was beside herself, wondering what had happened and where her girls were. Police were keeping their eyes open for Travis and his vehicle, a white 2017 GMC Sierra pickup with Washington state plate number D20165C. At approximately 3pm on June 2, Travis's truck was located near the Rock Island Campground in Sheilin County, Washington. Officers responded to the scene. The truck was empty, so officials
7:45 Speaker 02 began to search the nearby area in the Wenatchee National Forest.
7:49 Speaker 01 It's when these officers searched the area looking for Travis and the girls that they made a shocking discovery. They stumbled upon the bodies of Peyton, Evelyn, and Olivia. There was no sign of Travis. It was immediately clear that the girls were murdered. And just a warning here for listeners, what was done to them was absolutely horrible. All three of the girls had plastic bags over their heads. Two of the girls each had two bags and one of them had three bags over her head and their hands had been bound behind their backs with zip ties. An autopsy would confirm that suffocation was the cause of death for
8:30 Speaker 01 all three of the girls. While it seemed likely that Travis Decker was responsible for his daughter's murders, it had to be at least considered that he may have met with foul play. So this search morph is happening over, you know, a three day or so period. And the finding of the girls bodies is just absolutely horrible. I mean, the description of what was done to them, whether you're a parent or not, there's no way to wrap your mind around how someone could do that to three very young girls, let alone his own daughters.
9:12 Speaker 01 You know, at this point, they don't know if Travis Decker murdered his girls, but just the thought of it, you know, how could a father do that?
9:22 Speaker 02 Yeah, that just seems like a heinous, terrible thing to do, not just once or twice, but three times to three different girls. And it just seems like a horrible way to die. I remember watching a movie called One False Move with Bill Paxton and Billy Bob Thornton in it. And there was a similar situation where three people were murdered with bags on their head and it was just horrifying to watch. So I can't imagine in real life, what that would be, what it was like for those little girls. And, you know, at this point, they don't know if it was Travis that had done this, or if, you know, he too had met with foul play, but I think, you know, the likelihood
10:06 Speaker 02 early on was that he probably was responsible. Detectives went over Travis's truck with a fine tooth comb, searching for clues. The tailgate of the truck had two bloody handprints on it. Travis's wall was on the center console inside the vehicle. A tent was set up nearby and a cooler was sitting next to it, but Travis was nowhere to be found. By July 1st, DNA analysis had confirmed that the blood left behind and handprints found on the tailgate of Travis's truck belonged to Travis. It was around the same time that DNA taken from the zip ties pointed to Travis and Travis alone. In the minds of police, it was now clear Travis was responsible for the deaths of his three daughters. There was also some blood found at the crime scene that didn't belong to the girls or
10:50 Speaker 02 to Travis, and it was determined to be a dog's blood. DNA testing on that blood was a match to Travis's dog, a husky. It's not clear how or why his dog bled at the scene, but thankfully the dog was alive and well and found in the search area and a local humane society took him in.
11:07 Speaker 01 When news of the murders got out and who was responsible, people were saddened and outraged that anyone could do this to three little girls, let alone their own father. As for Whitney, by all accounts, she was gutted by the deaths of her daughters and left devastated. While her ex-husband was on the run, Whitney was left to deal with a nightmare and would have to make plans for her daughter's final arrangements. A GoFundMe was set up on Whitney's behalf to help her with funeral expenses and really to help her just move forward with her life without financial worries on top of everything else. And the outpouring of support and generosity of people was amazing.
11:48 Speaker 01 So many people were moved and wanted to help that that GoFundMe, as of the time of this recording, was up to almost $1.3 million. On June 20th, 2025, a public memorial was held for the three slain girls at Rocky Reach Dam Park, and over 800 people attended, including Whitney Decker, who thanked the crowd for their support during an unimaginably difficult time. While Whitney was grieving her daughter's death, police were hunting for her ex-husband, Travis Decker. A reward of up to $20,000 was offered by the U.S. Marshal Service for information leading to Decker's arrest.
12:31 Speaker 01 And more of we just talked about the grisly discovery of these three young girls. And now it has been, you know, conclusively determined that they were killed at the hands of their father. But then you have Whitney, who's left to try to pick up the pieces and deal with this. I can't even imagine the grief and anguish that she's dealing with. And it's just amazing how people will come to someone's aid. You know, in this case, in the form of, let's say, financial support through a GoFundMe.
13:13 Speaker 01 I think people in a situation like this can sympathize with her and what she must be going through and they're just willing to help out.
13:24 Speaker 02 Yeah, total strangers coming to the rescue and aiding her. And not that money will ever bring her children back. But just the time she's going to need, she may not be able to work. She may need counseling. Just to have financial responsibilities, not be something on top of all that. You know, hopefully will help her in, you know, some manner. But I can't even imagine losing one child, let alone losing all your children. You know, in this blink of an eye, she's childless. And I just don't even know how you get through that. So I'm, you know, hoping and praying that she's able to get through this and come to terms with
14:07 Speaker 02 the grief and how to go upon, you know, beyond that. And down the road, not just next week, next month, but this will undoubtedly affect her for the rest of her life.
14:18 Speaker 01 But on top of that, think about the, you know, finding out or learning that the person who took your three girls out of this world was this man that you loved, maybe still do on some level or did you spent, you know, part of your life with. You know, you got to come to terms with that too. So, yeah, unfortunately she is dealing with a lot. I feel for her.
14:48 Speaker 02 According to ABC News, because scent dogs had not picked up any type of cadaver or any type of presence of a deceased body, investigators were working under the assumption that Travis was still alive and on the move, evading detection and staying one step ahead of the ground search. The consensus was that Travis had gone off grid and tried to survive and avoid people. But if there was anyone who was actually capable of living off the grid for a long period of time, it seems that it was Travis Decker. According to KOMO news.com, Travis was described as a well-versed outdoorsman who frequently engaged in hiking, camping, survival school practice and hunting. And Chelan County Sheriff Mike Morrison told the center square that Travis had been an
15:33 Speaker 02 outdoorsman since he was a Kid, and it was something he was attracted to doing in his free time. Travis was also a veteran in the United States Army and had served in Afghanistan for four months. After at least seven years as an infantryman in the army, he transferred to the Washington National Guard. He routinely rutted in the wilderness for nearly three months at a time. Police described Travis Decker as homeless and living in tents in the woods.
15:58 Speaker 01 Travis Decker was facing three charges of first degree murder and kidnapping. And police were determined to find him in case he did flee to another state or country. He was also charged with one count of unlawful flight to avoid prosecution by federal prosecutors. The search for Travis Decker involved more than 100 people and a vast area, over 1 million square meters. There were multiple agencies hunting him, including local, state, and federal authorities, all working together and trying to get justice for Olivia, Evelyn, and Peyton Decker. The search actually stretched across five different counties in Washington.
16:41 Speaker 01 And it seems to me to be very smart to go ahead and charge him with this unlawful flight to avoid prosecution. It's a federal charge. So I think that probably allows the federal authorities to get involved and maybe puts other things in motion as well.
17:01 Speaker 02 And I think in a case like this, as heinous as it is and no sign of the person that you think did this, you need all hands on deck and all the resources you can get, all the allies you can get. So I think this was a good move.
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18:34 Speaker 02 Catitas County Sheriff Clay Myers told ABC News that Travis Decker remains a danger to the public as long as he's at large. We can't and won't quit the search. Chelan County Sheriff Mike Morrison added, we could be in for a fight for five years, 10 years, 20 years, though he admitted that he wanted it to be closer to a couple of weeks at the most. He also explained that there would be no giving up when it came to the search for Travis Decker, saying, it could be a long time and we're committed to staying with it. Governor Bob Ferguson even called in the Washington National Guard to help search for Travis Decker.
19:09 Speaker 01 Well, you know, I don't think the authorities want to give up on finding anyone who has committed, you know, a crime, let alone a person who killed three young girls, his own daughters. I mean, there's just no way that you can give up on finding that individual. And I think saying that this man is a danger to the public, I mean, that's a given, right? If he's willing and able to kill his own daughters, what is he not capable of?
19:46 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think the authorities err on the, you know, the right side, the side of caution, just letting the public know, hey, if you say this, if you see this guy, avoid him and, and report it.
20:00 Speaker 01 Just like in so many other cases where someone is missing or on the run, authorities had to track down and verify multiple sightings of Travis, not just in the state of Washington, but throughout the country. In July, people camping in the Bear Creek area of the Sawtooth National Forest in Idaho, spotted an individual whose appearance seemed to be a match for Travis Decker. The campground where the three Decker girls were found deceased, was just over 10 miles from the Pacific Crest Trail, which runs from Canada to Mexico. Police learned that Travis had been looking up stuff about moving to Canada, and there's nothing stopping you from walking right over the border near the trail.
20:44 Speaker 01 This is why in early August, authorities worked quickly to act on a report of a sighting of Travis near Snoqualmie Pass in Washington, which the Pacific Crest Trail passes right through. The sighting near the Pacific Crest Trail was after the sighting in Idaho, which authorities did look into and deem unrelated to the investigation. The man who was mistaken for Travis Decker hiking and camping in Idaho was located, so the search returned to Washington. And to me, this is something that comes up in a lot of cases where someone is either missing or on the run. And during an investigation, all kinds of tips are going to come in.
21:29 Speaker 01 There's going to be sightings in many instances, and authorities have to run down all those leads. And a lot of them are not going to turn out to be credible. There's no doubt that it's a drain on resources, right? Leading you in the wrong direction, but you gotta check that stuff out.
21:50 Speaker 02 Yeah, I think there's no doubt you've got to rule it out, make sure that it isn't him, because if it is and you don't check it out, you just dismiss it, there could be other victims, or he might get away because he's got more time and freedom to do what he's going to do next. So to their credit, they did take all these possible sightings seriously.
22:13 Speaker 02 On August 23rd, the entire Rock Island campground was closed while the Federal Bureau of Investigation conducted a three-day search of the crime scene and beyond. Searchers painstakingly tried to leave no stone unturned as they tromped through the area foot by foot. Around the time of the search, authorities found bones near the crime scene. Analysis by personnel in the anthropology department at Central Washington University discovered that the bones weren't human.
22:39 Speaker 01 In mid-September 2025, members of the Spokane County Sheriff's Office dive team searching Icicle Creek, just a few hundred yards downstream from the main crime scene, found a key fob that ended up belonging to Travis's pickup truck. This led investigators to continue searching the area nearby, not even one mile away from where the girls were found. Searchers scouring Grinestone Mountain then noticed something green in an area of brush that was difficult to get to. A drone was sent out over the area to give investigators a better picture of what they were looking at. It was a t-shirt, and it was identical to the bright green one Travis was wearing when he was last seen.
23:24 Speaker 01 Search dogs that were sent up indicated the presence of human remains.
23:30 Speaker 02 Officers involved in a multi-agency search team reached the scene where the remains were spotted, dropping down from a helicopter instead of trying to access the area on foot. And they found a pair of shorts, identical to the pair of shorts that Travis was wearing when he was last seen alive. A bracelet he was known to wear, and also a can of chewing tobacco believed to have belonged to Travis. Then they found human bones, including ribs, fingers, a spinal column, and feet. While the remains were in such bad shape that a DNA test was needed for an official confirmation. Authorities were sure that they had found Travis Decker due to the shirt, the key fob, and the location of the bones.
24:09 Speaker 01 Despite news that police believe they had found Travis Decker's remains, there were immediately conspiracy theories or doubts about the discovery, with many people online seeming to believe that Travis had managed to kill someone else in that remote area and steal their vehicle to flee far away from the search group. On September 23rd, 2025, United States Marshal Service officially declared Travis Decker deceased in a court motion. However, according to Chelan County Sheriff Mike Morrison, lab results were still pending at the time and the identity of the remains was not yet confirmed by DNA. Travis Decker had likely been deceased during most, if not all, of the manhunt.
24:55 Speaker 01 Now, eventually, they would confirm that the remains were Travis Decker, but it's understandable, or it's pretty common, more for, you know, conspiracy theories to crop up, especially in that time period where they're saying, okay, they believe it's him, but they haven't confirmed it using DNA. Until people get that information, there's going to be conspiracy theories, especially online.
25:22 Speaker 02 And sometimes even getting the DNA wouldn't stop the conspiracy theories from happening, but you know, it was clear the police were taking no chances with this. They wanted to confirm with certainty that it was Travis Decker's bones that they had found, and sure enough, they were. As of the time of this recording, no cause of death for Travis Decker, if one is known, has been made public. We do know Travis was injured in some way when he was at the campsite, where his truck was found with bloody handprints on the tailgate. If he was bleeding heavily enough that he eventually died from the less of blood, you would think that canine searchers would have easily been able to follow the scent of his blood trail. So this has led some to believe that the injury that caused Travis to bleed was a minor one.
26:06 Speaker 02 Some people have speculated that due to the state of decomposition, there was no obvious cause of death, and it may never be able to be fully determined. The remains had been scattered by animals, and unless there are any marks in the bones or a weapon was found nearby, it may be impossible to tell what ultimately happened to Travis Decker.
26:24 Speaker 01 So there is, you know, a bit of mystery here as to...
26:30 Speaker 01 You know, how Travis died. The one thing that really jumped out at me is that even though it wasn't all that far away from where the murders occurred, you know, his body was found in a very remote place. You know, how did he get there? It was so remote that, you know, they, they sent in a drone. They eventually had to lower, you know, people from a helicopter to get to the body. So how did his body end up there? And how did he actually die? I mean, that's, that's still a mystery.
27:06 Speaker 02 And it makes you wonder if he somehow managed to get there on his own by crawling or whatever he had to do. Maybe his intent was to not be found. And, you know, maybe to have people wondering, is he still out there? Do we have to be worried about this guy? Maybe it was something to scare his ex-wife so that she might be looking over her shoulder. You know, unfortunately, we just don't know.
27:31 Speaker 01 So now we know what happened to the girls and who was responsible. Travis Decker, and we know that he's dead. What we don't have at this point, and what we may never get answers to is why? Why did Travis kill these three beautiful little girls, his own daughters? Travis Decker was reportedly acting erratically in general, at least three days before he picked up his daughters for their final visitation, when he had a very minor run in with police after rear ending another car. At the time, he had no insurance or at least no proof of insurance.
28:12 Speaker 01 Body cam footage shows an officer explaining that he should watch out for a ticket in the mail for the lack of insurance and for not keeping enough distance to not hit the car in front of him.
28:25 Speaker 02 It looks to police like Travis was planning something for at least days before the murders. His initial plan may have been to flee the country, potentially after killing his daughters, or maybe he was thinking about bringing them along. We really don't know. The things he was looking up online just point to a quick move to Canada. According to ABC News, he searched for "how does a person move to Canada and how to relocate to Canada?" It seemed like he was planning to stay in Canada long-term, not take his own life, because he also searched for jobs in Canada. Cell phone records show that Travis may have been scouting the area where he killed his daughters the day before his visitation with them. Whether it was to see if it would be a good campsite for an actual father and daughter's camping trip,
29:09 Speaker 02 or to see if it was secluded enough to commit three murders and escape afterwards, we don't know for sure.
29:15 Speaker 01 A look into Travis's background showed troubling signs, which makes this case even more tragic. Travis was struggling for a long time. His loved ones knew he was dealing with problems with his mental health and didn't know how to help him. Even his ex-wife Whitney, who lost her three precious young girls, doesn't seem to fully blame Travis. She's mostly spoken to the public through her attorney, Ariana Kozar, who said to ABC News that Whitney feels like the system really let Travis down. Travis and Whitney met just after he returned from Afghanistan. They married in 2015 and they had three children, all daughters.
29:57 Speaker 01 They were married for seven years, but their marriage couldn't withstand the trouble he was going through. After returning from his tour in Afghanistan, he experienced severe PTSD, which he unfortunately always carried with him. It began to really affect their relationship negatively over time.
30:17 Speaker 02 Travis was also having problems sleeping and it started to get bad. He would only get one, maybe two hours of sleep every night. And he would do things like wake Whitney up in the middle of the night, either by getting up and leaving at odd hours for no discernible reason, or because he was standing over her screaming. As terrifying as that kind of thing must have been to live through and wake up to, from Whitney's perspective, whatever was going on inside his head that was to cause that kind of behavior from Travis must have been equally horrifying. Travis had been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, but wasn't taking medication as far as Whitney was aware. Travis moved out of the house after they separated in November 2022, and they officially divorced in 2023.
31:00 Speaker 02 Things continued to deteriorate from there for Travis, but there must have been moments where things seemed okay, or like they were getting better. Eventually Travis stopped showing up for the required monthly National Guard drills and was set to be discharged over it.
31:15 Speaker 01 By August of 2023, Travis's daughters seemed to be afraid of provoking one of Travis's emotional outbursts, mostly because of how they saw him yell at his dogs. The girls were so nervous that they had started to cry when they would have to FaceTime with Travis, or when he would pick them up for a visit. Travis started refusing to take the girls, even when it was his time to see them. It also seemed that at the time Travis didn't have any fixed address. He was mostly living out of his truck and staying at motels or hotels here and there. It was clear that everything in Travis's life was unraveling. His family, his military service, and his mental health.
32:00 Speaker 01 Now, I think, you know, as we kind of paint this picture of Travis Decker and What he was going through before the murders, things are really starting to come into focus. I mean, I don't think there's any doubt that he was struggling mightily with mental health issues. I mean, he was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. It seems pretty obvious that he had and suffered from PTSD from, you know, his time in the service. The other thing that that I want to talk about is, and we we said it earlier, right?
32:40 Speaker 01 An authority came out and said that he was basically homeless and had been for a while, living in tents in the wilderness. He's living in motels here and there. I mean, when I say his life was unraveling, it really does seem as though it was.
32:59 Speaker 02 Yeah, and there's no excuse for what he did to his girls. And not dismissing that at all, but I think things like PTSD from war do, you know, there's evidence in so many cases of that negatively affecting the way people think, the way they act, their actions, and not giving him an excuse for what he did. But I'm sure all of that stuff played some role in what happened.
33:30 Speaker 01 Well, yeah, you said it exactly right. There's no excuse for what he did, but you have to talk about what was going on in his life to try to figure out why in the world he did what he did.
33:46 Speaker 02 In December 2023, when Travis still had overnight visitation privileges with his daughters, he and the girl slept on mattresses on the floor at a men's shelter. Whitney didn't know they would be at a shelter at all, let alone a men's shelter alone with strangers. Travis lied to her and told her that he was staying in an RV at the time. At some point, while at the shelter, he left the girls alone. And Olivia, who was five years old when she died, ended up smashing her fingers in a weight machine there. The girls couldn't find their dad. FaceTimed Whitney crying hysterically. In July 2024, Travis hitchhiked to Whitney's house for a visit and showed up three hours late. By September 2024, things had changed considerably with Travis's situation.
34:31 Speaker 02 Whitney laid out in a court filing, "Since our separation, it has become increasingly clear Travis has been struggling to maintain stability in his life."
34:40 Speaker 01 According to ABC News, Whitney filed for sole custody of the children because of concerning factors regarding Travis's mental health and stability. It was granted, even though, as Whitney's attorney explained, "There were no red flags regarding his relationship with the children." And as Whitney's attorney Ariana Kozart also said of Travis, "He loved those girls very much." While things were clearly going downhill in Travis's life, the relationship with his daughter seemed to be the only thing he had going, and there was no indication he would ever do anything to hurt them.
35:18 Speaker 02 As time went on, it does seem that Travis was getting increasingly controlling and potentially violent. According to KRO7 News Seattle, in one court filing, Whitney wrote, "He has had some outburst where he has burst into my home against my objections and yelled for the girls." Whitney also said that Travis never committed any acts of domestic violence while they were together. This is part of why what happened was such a shock to everyone who knew the family. Travis did, however, show what Whitney described as narcissism, and there were moments of power or control he used. That kind of thing is a pattern that we see in family annihilators. But it's easier to see that kind of thing looking back and knowing everything about how his situation ended.
36:00 Speaker 02 It's not always as easy to recognize before the tragedy strikes.
36:04 Speaker 01 One point of contention between Travis and Whitney after their separation is that Whitney seemed to want to shield the girls from the worst of their father's symptoms, while Travis thought they should see what he went through so that they would know what real life would be like, as if they could learn some kind of important life lesson at their very young ages. Any kind of pessimism- Or coldness may not have set off any alarm bells. Perhaps the custody orders may have upset Travis. He was against modifying the visitation orders, feeling that he was already not able to see the girls as much as he wanted to. According to the sun.com Travis did take issue with the more limited visitation
36:47 Speaker 01 schedule, specifically with no overnights, telling the court, I only get to see them over the weekends and camping is something that the four of us have done since the three of them were in diapers.
37:00 Speaker 02 Travis never completed any of the court ordered psychiatric evaluation, anger management treatment or counseling. At one point, it does seem Travis was actually trying to help himself and to better his mental health. He had actually been trying to get help for quite some time. According to the center square, Whitney's attorney said Travis tried and reached out to several of the mental health resources that are available to veterans. He did all the things or tried to do all the things that he could, and he wasn't able to get the help he needed and was never able to get the psychiatric evaluation.
37:33 Speaker 01 I don't know. For me, there's some things that don't seem to quite match up. You have Whitney at times saying that she feels as though the system let Travis down. Her attorney saying that he did everything he could, right? To get the, the mental health help he needed. But then, you know, he doesn't complete any of the court ordered psychiatric evaluations or anger management treatment, any type of counseling. So I don't know if those were just in different timeframes. You know, if his mental health had deteriorated at the time that it became court ordered. It's a little confusing.
38:17 Speaker 02 Yeah. And I wonder if some of that is maybe, you know, he recognized he needed help and asked for it, but then when he had a chance to get it, he didn't respond to it. Cause I know that can happen a lot of times, just because somebody knows that they need help, they don't always follow through with the steps to get it. But you would hope that a veteran, an Afghanistan veteran coming back, demonstrating these problems, you'd think the help would be available to him. And, you know, whatever happened, that he didn't wind up getting it, whether it was a failure on the systems part of him not getting it, or he didn't follow through long term to get the help he needed. You know, we just don't know that part.
38:58 Speaker 01 We do know that Travis wouldn't sign the new parenting plan agreement and it had only been about six months since it was forced on him. Had he just been stewing and plotting that whole time? Or did the situation finally just get to him and he snapped? Things hadn't improved since the divorce. They just kept getting worse. Travis was a member of carpenters local union 59 out of Spokane and had most recently worked as a second term apprentice carpenter. However, his membership was suspended early in 2025. Perhaps this was the final straw for Travis.
39:36 Speaker 02 There are some people who in the aftermath of this tragedy have said that Whitney should have decided to keep the children away from Travis, even though he was granted visitation. But it's not likely that this would have prevented anything from happening. If anything, there may have been even more victims if he had to grab the girls by force when they were out in public or break into their home in the middle of the night. And keeping the girls from him may have even upset him and set him off sooner. And for much of their separation, the girls wanted a relationship with their father. They loved to see him, were happy when he showed up to any of their events or outings. And like most young children, wanted their dad in their lives. So it's likely Whitney didn't want to stand in the way of them having a relationship with her father.
40:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, and it's, it's really tough to fault Whitney. I, I understand people can question it. But, you know, if the guy had visitation rights, I mean, what is she supposed to do? Just unilaterally say, no, you can't see them? I mean, she would be going against the court at that point.
40:39 Speaker 02 And it also seems like Whitney had never heard a direct threat against the girls or, you know, it didn't seem to her at least that although his life was unstable, it didn't seem like he was a risk to the girls. So, you know, I think she saw no reason to keep them apart, despite what Travis was going through. And, you know, I feel like if she would have spotted any of that stuff, she probably would have spoke up and said, no, he, he can't see these kids because he did X, Y, or Z.
41:11 Speaker 01 Whitney's apparent lack of anger is surprising to many. You know, if you look up this case online, you'll see a lot of strangers declaring that they're happy Travis was found dead and hoping that he suffered before he passed, as well as a lot of name calling, but you don't see any of that from Whitney. And she's the one living through the nightmare and going through each day with a tremendous amount of grief. It's not clear if this is just characteristic of who she is as a person, or if she just feels that this particular situation warrants grace and forgiveness. But her feelings about the situation have certainly helped to shape the way some people understand this case.
41:53 Speaker 01 While Whitney may have forgiven Travis for what he did to the girls, there's no doubt she wanted him caught. Her attorney told People Magazine that it was actually a huge thing that she wants and something that was very, very important to her so that she can have peace. Whitney suspected that Travis had taken his own life somewhere near the crime scene, and she may have been correct.
42:16 Speaker 02 Rather than dwell in the horrible way that her daughters died, Whitney seems to have focused on remembering the time she had with them. At the memorial for her daughter, she said, "I'm so thankful for the time that I had with the girls. I truly hope that the legacy of the girls' lives lives on in everyone's hearts forever. They were incredible." And there are a couple of things Whitney wants to see fixed in the aftermath of this tragedy. First, Whitney wants to see the Amber Alert system adjusted. According to her attorney in an interview with People Magazine, Whitney has said, "The thing I want most out of the situation is for this to be fixed. Perhaps if that Amber Alert allowed for an immediate response, it might have saved the girls."
42:57 Speaker 02 And another thing Whitney hopes to see is an improvement in looking after and helping veterans with their mental health. She thinks that may have helped Travis.
43:06 Speaker 01 So, Morphe, as we wrap this one up, obviously, what Travis Decker did was so unbelievably horrible. There's no way around that. Who he did it to, the way that he did it, all of it, completely horrible and tragic. And then there's the mystery of, you know, kind of what did he do afterwards? Was he hurt or did he just lay down and, and die?
43:35 Speaker 02 I think that's the frustrating thing all the way around in this case. What happened to Travis? Why did he do this in the first place? When it's not all tied up neatly with a bow at the end and they're still lingering questions. I think that's very frustrating. And I try to put myself inside the minds of some of the people we talk about that do these things. And I just can't do it. You know, here's a guy that everything seemed to be going downhill for him. And the one positive thing he had left was his relationship with his daughters. They were the most important thing that were still there for him.
44:14 Speaker 02 And to choose to end their lives, I don't know how he comes to that decision in the first place. And then goes through with it and not does it once, but three times he had to kill each of his daughters. I, I just can't fathom how that happens.
44:32 Speaker 01 No, I can't either. And I, I'm sure people listening can as well. I mean, to me, there's no doubt that his mental health played a role in this somehow. We're just never going to know exactly what role it played. And like you said, that is frustrating for, for many. One of the things that really bothers me, and unfortunately you see this in every case, right? When you go online and you see people's comments, you know, there are a lot of comments about Whitney that to me just aren't warranted. You know, Whitney should have done this, or how can Whitney act as though she forgives him? We don't know if she forgives him or not.
45:16 Speaker 01 We only know what she's come out and said publicly, or what her attorney has said. And, you know, some people can forgive while others can or don't believe that the person should be forgiven. I mean, it's, it's really tough to put yourself in that position because how many people have been there? And so how do they know how they would, you know, act or, or react to that situation?
45:44 Speaker 02 And if Whitney does forgive him? You know, part of me can't fathom that because it seems, you know, just thinking about it now, if I was in her shoes, I'd probably hate the person that did this even after they were dead. But on the other hand, she's already got enough baggage to carry with her the rest of her life. Maybe forgiveness unloads some additional baggage she will have to carry with her. And, you know, from that perspective, you know, I sort of understand that.
46:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, my thought is she's the one that's dealing with it. So however she chooses to deal with it, that's up to her. But I feel for her. I mean, she has lost everything. Now, we talked about some of the things that she wants to see. Cause I do feel as though because she said it, she thinks, you know, Travis not getting the mental health help he needed played a role. So she wants to see that improve. You know, the amber alert, like we said, the criteria as it stands, the situation early on didn't meet that criteria to put out an amber alert. So you can look at that and see, okay, does it need to be tweaked?
46:59 Speaker 01 That happens a lot, right? Cases, situations can spark a change in protocol, procedures, different things like that. But like we said earlier, I mean, there's no guarantee that putting the amber alert out would have prevented this. Maybe it would have, and you could certainly argue that the possibility would have been greater had an amber alert been out.
47:27 Speaker 02 Yeah, and it's a, it's a very tragic case that, and that's just one more question. Would an amber alert have prevented this? You know, we just don't know, like, we don't know so many other things in this case. And that's what makes it so frightened, you know, frightening and sad and hard to understand.
47:44 Speaker 01 But definitely no doubt Travis Decker is a very hated individual online. And I understand the reason for that. He did the most despicable thing a person could do, right? Killing his, his three small children. You're gonna get no sympathy from 99.9% of the people when you do that.
48:08 Speaker 02 Yeah, as a, as a father, your, your goal is to protect your children and do anything you can for them, including sacrificing your life for them, not taking their life or lives in this case. So, you know, it's just one more thing. I can't get my head around how this happens, how he came to this decision. And, you know, it's just something we'll probably never have answers to.
48:33 Speaker 01 But that's it for our episode on Travis Decker. As always, if you love the show, take a minute, go out, leave us a review or rating. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really goes a long way.
48:47 Speaker 02 If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. So just search for criminology podcast on your favorites. You can also go to our website, criminologypodcast.com to get more information about the show and listen to old episodes. And if you want to join our Facebook discussion group, head over to Facebook and search for criminology podcast discussion and fans.
49:08 Speaker 01 So that's it for another episode of criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike.
49:18 Speaker 02 And Morph.
49:19 Speaker 01 We'll talk to you next week.
49:20 Speaker 02 Take care, everyone.
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