Judy Lord

In 1975, 22-year-old Judy Lord was suffocated and strangled in her Concord, NH apartment. From early on, police felt that they had a strong suspect, Ernie Gable, and even physical evidence that may help to prove it. But the case remained cold for decades. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the case of Judy Lord. The technology the authorities had at their disposal was extremely limited in 1975. In November of 2025, police finally announced that they had solved Judy Lord's murder. Many people had been suspected over the years, but technology left no doubt as to the identity of Judy's murderer. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Hey Criminology listeners, it's Mike Morford here, and I want to tell you about a podcast I think you'll really like, especially if you're a fan of FBI criminal profiling. It's called The Consult. Have a listen.

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• 1:43Speaker 00

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 389 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

• 1:49Speaker 03

  And this is Mike Morford.

• 1:51Speaker 00

  Mr. Morford, how you doing this week, buddy?

• 1:53Speaker 03

  I'm doing good. How you doing?

• 1:55Speaker 00

  Great. We had our first snow day. We had another snow last night. Christmas is almost here. It's definitely winter time. I can tell you that from, from my weather.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Well, I don't know anything about snow down here in Florida, but we did put our heat on last night. So it's, you know, it got down to, I think, 49 or something like that. So it feels a little bit like Christmas season or holiday season.

• 2:20Speaker 00

  Poor baby. You need me to send you down like an emergency kit or something? 49?

• 2:24Speaker 03

  Now, we've, we've got a couple of extra blankets that we break out when we need to.

• 2:28Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so funny. The difference in the weather, right between my place, your place out west, southwest, northwest. Boy, big differences in the climate in this country, for sure. But let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had Kelly Baffone, Emma Truman, and Shannon Armstrong. So a lot of great new support. We really appreciate that.

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  Yeah, thank you so much for that support. It really helps us out. For anyone else that would like to, you can get started by going to patreon.com/criminology.

• 3:05Speaker 00

  All right, it's time to jump into this week's case. And we're diving into a case that had really frustrated investigators for 50 years. In 1975, 22 year old Judy Lord was suffocated and strangled in her Concord, New Hampshire apartment. From early on, police felt that they had a strong suspect and even physical evidence that may help to prove it. But frustratingly, an enormous error along the way would prevent a prosecution from happening. And it would be decades before science was able to erase all doubts about who was responsible.

• 3:44Speaker 03

  In May 1975, 22 year old Judy Lord was living in unit four of building 19 in the Concord Gardens building in Concord, New Hampshire. Concord back in 1970 had a population of about 30,000 people. Judy had recently moved into the unit with her husband Gregory Lord Sr. Just two months earlier. But they ended up separating in early May after an incident of domestic violence. On May 4, Judy called the police and explained that her husband had beaten her. Officers came and observed two black eyes, blood around her mouth, and a lump on the back of her head. Gregory is arrested for assault the next day. He pled guilty and agreed to pay a $100 fine and subsequently moved out of

• 4:27Speaker 03

  the apartment. When he left, he took everything with him, other than the bed in the crib for the young son Gregory Jr. He moved in with his grandmother who lived across the street. Due to the stress of the situation, Judy quit her job at McCurley's Nursing Home.

• 4:43Speaker 00

  And more domestic violence. We talk about it a lot. It's a very, very scary situation. I don't know exactly how it was dealt with in 1975.

• 4:57Speaker 00

  My thought is though, and from what I've heard, it was not taken nearly as seriously as it is today. Now, officers came out and by the description, there was no doubt, right, that Gregory had beaten the you know what out of Judy. She had two black eyes, blood around her mouth, a lump on the back of her head. But okay, what happens to him? He pleads guilty and he pays a $100 fine. If that's all that happened, all right, I think that tells you everything you need to know right there about how that type of crime was viewed back in 1975.

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, we've talked a lot about sentencing for harsh, awful crimes that are committed. I remember when we were discussing the Golden State Killer case, the rapes were such a short statute of limitation because they just didn't view them seriously. They didn't take them seriously. So, you know, this seems like another crime that wasn't harshly punished. And we talk about cases where it goes on for a long time. We don't know how long this went on, but it seems that Judy put it, put a stop to it quickly and decided she, she wasn't putting up with this and, you know, good for her for doing that.

• 6:17Speaker 00

  But how scary is it to go through this situation only to have this person move right across the street from you, move in with, you know, his grandmother? I mean, we talked about the stress on her. It had to have been unbelievable. But even having said all that, there obviously was a strange dynamic between the two, even after this incident, because on May 19th, Judy went to the bank with her husband to cash her last paycheck. And then around 4pm, she picked her son up from a friend's house. Around 8pm, she went

• 7:00Speaker 00

  to a volleyball game at the complex. And at the time, she was friendly with the other residents Mingling with them. After the game, she and some other neighbors went to the unit next to hers to hang out with Linda Gable. Her husband, Ernest, was not home for this gathering. While next door, Judy realized that she had left her door unlocked and she was afraid. So she asked a friend to do a sweep of the unit and make sure that everything was okay and no one was inside. After the friend confirmed that the apartment was empty, Judy locked the door and they both went back to the Gables unit. Finally, Judy went home around 11:30 that night. A few minutes later, she popped back over to ask Linda if she

• 7:43Speaker 00

  could borrow a pair of shoes. Then she went home and took a shower. It was a pretty uneventful night, or so it seemed.

• 7:51Speaker 03

  The next day on May 20th, just after 12:30 in the afternoon, the property manager of the Concord Gardens Apartments knocked on the door of Judy's unit to collect the rent because it was past due, but no one answered the door. He could hear her son crying inside, so he knew Judy was home. The property manager decided to enter the unit, expecting to catch Judy avoiding him over the rent. Instead, he found something horrible. He found her dead. Her baby son, 20-month-old Gregory Jr., was physically unharmed, still crying in another room. The landlord called police, who quickly came to investigate.

• 8:27Speaker 00

  It was clear that there had been a physical fight in Judy's bedroom. One of the curtains had been torn off the rock, which was broken. The bed had been partially pulled away from the wall. The lampshade on a tall floor lamp was hanging crooked on the lamp. The alarm clock had been knocked off the nightstand. It was broken and showed the time of 1:47 a.m. A small mirror had also been knocked off of the bedside table. The toilet seat had been left up, suggesting that Judy had not been the last one to use her bathroom. Judy's body was lying on the bed underneath a blanket. She was completely nude with something

• 9:08Speaker 00

  covering her face. It turned out to be a sauna suit, basically a jumpsuit or tracksuit made of a rubbery waterproof material. It had been used to suffocate her. There were also signs that she had been strangled and there were multiple scratches on Judy's face, likely inflicted by her killer as they covered her mouth or grabbed at her face and neck.

• 9:32Speaker 03

  There were two towels still damp from the last shower Judy had taken just hours before she was attacked. They were on the floor near the foot of the bed that Judy was killed on. Dry semen was found on at least one of them. In the days before DNA, investigators were only able to determine that the semen had been left by someone with the blood type B or AB. That's basically the extent of what they could do, of what they could test for at the time. The damp towels also helped to give investigators a clear order of events. Judy had made it home safely, felt comfortable enough to shower, and then she was assaulted. Her cause of death was listed as homicidal strangulation.

• 10:11Speaker 00

  And this is an absolutely horrifying description of events. You have this property manager who probably dealt with this type of thing a lot, right? People are sometimes late on their rent. Is it unusual that they would try to dodge him because they don't want to have to answer for why they haven't been able to pay, or they still can't pay? So, you know, he uses his key, walks in thinking he's going to catch Judy. Instead, he finds of just an absolutely nightmarish scene.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can't imagine being that guy walking into that situation and finding that, you know, that actually happened when I was young. I lived in an apartment complex and there was a similar situation. A guy went in to do some maintenance in an apartment and he found the tenant dead. It wasn't a murder, but still, he was, from what I heard, pretty shocked and devastated by seeing that. So, not something you expect to see on your daily work at an apartment complex, but something he probably never forgot.

• 11:24Speaker 00

  No, and you know, that would be bad enough. This would be even worse. And the, the things that really jump out at me are the descriptions of the scene. Right? There was no doubt. There was a, a big fight in that bedroom. A lot of things were knocked off. You know, we've got the, the alarm clock, which, you know, may help pinpoint time because it was broken at a certain time. But this toilet seat left up. And that's a, a big thing in my house. You know, I have a wife and two girls. I'm the only male in the house. The toilet seat has been drilled into me for 30 years.

• 12:08Speaker 00

  Do not leave the toilet seat up. So what are police left with? What, what would, what would they most likely suspect? That there was a male there, right? They also have semen. So, I mean, it's, it's not that tough to put all that together.

• 12:27Speaker 03

  And that's maybe something that the person overlooked when they, you know, committed this crime. Maybe they went into the bathroom, didn't even think about it. And it's, it's little clues like that, that would help police maybe figure out, okay, this is a male attacker. They had the semen as well. On the other hand, if it was a woman somehow, you know, it would pretty, be a pretty ingenious move to leave the toilet seat up to try and plant a false flag.

• 12:56Speaker 00

  Police questioned nearby residents of the apartment complex and they got some disturbing news. It seems that multiple people actually heard Judy being attacked and killed, but no one went to check on her or called for help. The tenants in the building were used to hearing noises from their neighbors because the walls were paper thin. One neighbor was able to report that she knew Judy took a shower before she headed to bed. Residents there could easily hear when their neighbors turned on the water and could likely even tell the difference between someone taking a shower and drawing a bath. During the time Judy was killed, these neighbors heard moans, thumps and screams

• 13:40Speaker 00

  coming from Judy's unit sometime in the middle of the night, maybe around 1:30. According to NHPR.org, one neighbor actually heard Judy yell, "Leave me alone, leave me alone," before the sound was abruptly muffled, as if a hand had been placed over her mouth. And according to a New Hampshire DOJ report, another neighbor specifically recalled that the bed really started banging away. According to the police report, the initial disturbance lasted for only a few minutes before the silence returned. And this is, you know, something that you and I discuss more often in many episodes. Someone hears

• 14:24Speaker 00

  something, a neighbor, a bystander. How do they process that information and what do they do with it? And this is one that, I mean, I get it. You don't know exactly what's going on. You're not sure. This could be some wild intimate moment, maybe. So you don't want to get involved. But the descriptions of it really kind of make you think that this would be the time to call police. There's a lot going on, screams, thumps. But again, what do you, what does a person make of it?

• 15:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the clue, "Leave me alone," would be, you know, a clue that, you know, she's, she's going through something that she's not happy about. And that might be the time to call police. And it's that old saying, if you want some help, don't yell rape, yell fire. And people are more apt to do something. And it seems like that's the case here.

• 15:31Speaker 00

  Well, you made a good point, right? If this neighbor really did hear, leave me alone, leave me alone. Well, that changes everything. Moans, thumps, even screams could come from a variety of situations. I don't need to list them all out. I think listeners can, you know, put some of that together. But in combination with something like, leave me alone. To me, that changes everything. And the fact that that neighbor specifically didn't call, that's worrisome.

• 16:08Speaker 03

  I think the worst case scenario is you call the police. They go knock on the door and if everything's okay, you know, no harm, no foul. They leave, but you maybe you save a life. The New Hampshire DOJ report states that autopsy notes indicate that marks on Judy's cheek and lips showed that the left hand of the attacker had been held over her nose and mouth, and that plastic material may have been held under the left hand of the attacker, over the nose and mouth of the victim. Five hairs were collected from the scene. Three were recovered from the bed. One was found on Judy's left hand and another was found on her stomach. Investigators examined the hair and believed that they belonged to someone with African American ancestry.

• 16:51Speaker 03

  Because both of Judy's doors had been locked, investigators believed that the killer had entered the apartment through her bedroom window, which was open.

• 16:59Speaker 00

  And I'm always struck more of, you know, with what could be done with evidence back in the seventies, early eighties versus, you know, later on, you would think this would be a goldmine for investigators, right? They recovered semen. They've got hairs. Those types of things usually lead to solving cases. But they were just so limited with what they could do with that stuff in 1975.

• 17:31Speaker 03

  I think most investigators present day would be happy to get that kind of evidence to start off a case with.

• 17:39Speaker 00

  Judy's husband Gregory Lord Sr. was immediately a suspect due to their recent separation and his arrest for violence against her. It was easy to see why he would be a suspect and he lived very close to Judy. The only problem was he had a solid alibi. He had been out fishing with his brother and didn't get home to his grandmother's until 10pm, the night of Judy's murder. According to the NHDOJ report, after he got in, his grandmother Flora Follinsby said that he never left the apartment for the remainder of the night. Another reason investigators discounted

• 18:19Speaker 00

  Greg as being Judy's killer was the state of his fingernails. He had a bad habit of biting his nails, which left them short and weak. They wouldn't likely have been able to make the scratches found on Judy's face. In addition, his blood type was A, which did not match the semen stain on the towels. He was also white, which meant that the hairs collected from the crime scene were not likely to belong to him. Because Judy had just showered, the hairs found on her body were almost certainly hairs from her killer. Finally, Greg was willing to sit for and pass the polygraph examination. The police were able to clear Greg Lord as a suspect.

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• 20:25Speaker 03

  There was one ear witness account that had made police interested in Greg Lord. Judy's next door neighbor, Larry Caraway, indicated that he thought he heard Judy arguing with her husband Greg the night she died. According to the DOJ report, Larry said he heard Judy ask, what are you doing here Greg? And also say, no Greg, no. Investigators became skeptical of Caraway's information after he was caught in a lie. When he was questioned in May 1975, Caraway told detectives specifically that he and Judy never had any kind of sexual relationship. But multiple people knew that Caraway, who was married, had been having an affair with Judy. It seemed like he was making things up to paint Judy's husband in a bad light.

• 21:09Speaker 03

  Caraway's wife, who was listening in the same room as her husband, didn't hear Greg's name at all. In fact, she didn't hear any voices at all, just some banging coming from Judy's apartment.

• 21:20Speaker 00

  So the fact that Larry Caraway lied to police didn't help them see him in a good light. According to the Concord Monitor, Judy's neighbor Linda Gable told police that Larry always talked about how he hated Gregory Lord and even started carrying a gun in case Greg decided to confront him over the affair. But Larry was ruled out as a suspect because his wife confirmed that he was in the apartment with her during the timeframe that someone was attacking Judy and HERS. But investigators still didn't believe that he was telling them the full truth. But they had to move on and look for other suspects. And I will say, this is a little scary to me.

• 22:03Speaker 00

  The fact that someone could have an issue with you, a problem with you, not like you. And In the wake of, you know, this horrific act, tell police some information that wasn't true, that really paints you in a bad light. That's a scary situation to me.

• 22:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, and it also, it seems to give Larry a motive possibly, but he was with his wife and she vouched for that. So, you know, if he didn't have the alibi, maybe he would have been a prime suspect. A closer examination of the crime scene would provide police with what they thought was a big break. Since they felt that the killer had come through the window, they checked it closely for prints and found some. Five fingerprints in total were found on Judy's window, and they belonged to her next door neighbor, 24-year-old Ernest Theodore Gable, who went by the nickname Ernie. He was the husband of Linda Gable, who hosted the gathering the night before. According to nhp.org,

• 23:08Speaker 03

  the fingerprints were smudged, but were in such a position that it was consistent with pushing it open to gain entry. Additionally, Ernie Gable was a black man, which matched the hairs that had been found on and around Judy's body. He quickly became suspect number one.

• 23:25Speaker 00

  From the very beginning, Ernie Gable wouldn't cooperate with the police search for Judy's killer, unlike pretty much every other man in the neighborhood that was asked for a hair, blood, or saliva sample, and willingly gave it, because they were confident they would be excluded, no matter their race. Ernie Gable refused. According to a warrant, literally every single other black male living in the Concord Gardens building gave their hair, blood, and saliva with no issues. Gable was the only one who didn't. He also had long and sharp fingernails that would have easily made those cuts on Judy's face if she was struggling against him.

• 24:09Speaker 00

  In fact, in May of 1975, when he was interviewed by detectives, he got anxious and he started scratching himself. His ear and his stomach started bleeding because of how sharp and long his fingernails were.

• 24:24Speaker 03

  Now, the fact that Ernie didn't cooperate with police and was standoffish not wanting to help when so many other people freely gave whatever police asked for, doesn't mean he's guilty at this point, but I think in the eyes of police, It probably made them more suspicious of him because if he's got nothing to hide, they're probably figuring, why doesn't he, you know, be forthcoming the way everyone else has been?

• 24:50Speaker 00

  Yeah, no doubt, right? There could be another reason for why someone doesn't want to freely cooperate. But when everyone else is, that is going to make you suspect number one in the eyes of police. Right? You live right next door.

• 25:09Speaker 03

  Investigators knew that they were on the right track with Gable. He had a pretty flimsy alibi. He told investigators that a coworker dropped him off at the complex between 12:45 and 12:50 a.m. on the night of Judy's murder. When he got home, his wife Linda was already asleep. He claimed he could hear Judy fighting with her husband Greg in their apartment, but this was clearly not the case as Greg had been ruled out.

• 25:33Speaker 00

  From the time Gable was dropped off at the complex to the time neighbors began to hear screams and noises from Judy's apartment, there were 40 minutes where Gable's whereabouts are basically unaccounted for. He said he was in his own apartment, but there was no one to actually verify that. Gable claimed once he was upstairs in his own apartment, he heard someone in Judy's apartment. It sounded like they ran up the stairs, tripped and fell or something because he heard a thud. He claimed that after hearing the thud, he got into bed and fell right to sleep. The next morning, before anyone other than Judy's killer knew that Judy had been murdered,

• 26:15Speaker 00

  Ernie Gable told his babysitter about what he had supposedly overheard. According to the DOJ file, he told the babysitter, Judy and her old man couldn't be hitting it off too well after the noise I had heard last night. To authorities, it was proof that Gable was trying to frame Gregory Lord and also make himself appear to have an alibi since he supposedly heard the attack from his own apartment.

• 26:44Speaker 03

  Ernie Gable likely knew he would quickly be suspected since he already had a long criminal history. He had been arrested in January 1969 for breaking and entering in the middle of the night to commit a larceny in Fall River, Massachusetts. He was sentenced to nine months behind bars. In January 1971, he was arrested for breaking and entering again, this time in New Bedford, Massachusetts. In September 1974, he was arrested for providing false information related to a firearm and for being a felon in possession of a dangerous weapon. For someone with this kind of record, living close to Judy, it would have only been a matter of time before police looked at him. Now they had his prints on her window. It wasn't looking good for him.

• 27:27Speaker 00

  And I think to say, you know, it's not looking good for him. Obviously, that's correct. It might be an understatement, really, right? He's got a pretty lengthy rap sheet. And obviously, the fingerprints are, you know, a big deal. He lived right next door. It does seem, based on, you know, his rap sheet, that this is something that he could be capable of.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's not the fact that he had a criminal history that's really the compelling thing. It's the fact that the criminal history involved breaking and entering and that kind of crime. So that's something that falls right in line with someone going through the window to get to Judy.

• 28:14Speaker 00

  It turns out that Ernie Gable wasn't subtle about his unrequited lust for Judy Lord. He was well aware that Judy wasn't interested in him, even if she didn't already have a husband. According to thepatch.com, just days before Judy was killed, Gable pointed to her when he was talking to an acquaintance and said, someday I'm going to get me a piece of that white meat. He frequently spoke about the girl next door who was living alone, and how he would like to have sex with her. One of Judy's friends recalled Judy talking about an incident just over a week before she was killed. On May 10, at 2 o'clock in

• 28:55Speaker 00

  the morning, Ernie Gable showed up at Judy's apartment and invited her to a party, but she said no. This lined up with the night that Judy went to stay over at her sister Linda's house because she was afraid to be home alone. Gable's wife happened to be out of town that night.

• 29:13Speaker 03

  Talking to those closest to Ernie Gable, it was clear that he was capable of a crime like this too. According to patch.com, one of his ex-girlfriends told investigators that he wanted her to scream and kick and scratch during sex and to fight back and pretend that she was being assaulted during the act. One time, it wasn't pretend. He started choking her during sex and she kicked, scratched, dug, until she finally got loose and ran outside. A different ex-girlfriend told a similar story about their private life, that he would put a pillow over her face for as long as he could while they were having sex. Once, he held her down on a couch and tried to force her to perform oral sex. Even

• 29:55Speaker 03

  Ernie Gable's wife Linda admitted that he tried to choke her once during sex.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  And I think you do see this in many cases, right? The police start to hone in on someone as their prime suspect. Well, what do they do? They go talk to people who know that person, who used to date that person. And oftentimes, what happens is a ton of stories start coming out. We already know it seemed that he was capable of this due to his rap sheet. And now you're hearing people say other things about him that really make it seem as though, yeah, he really is capable of this murder and attack.

• 30:42Speaker 03

  It's pretty clear from everything that we're hearing about this guy that he wasn't a good guy.

• 30:47Speaker 00

  In September of 1975, one of Gable's former roommates reported that Gable had strangled a minor. After she refused his sexual advances, the incident left red marks on her neck. And Gable actually admitted to the roommate that he had been planning to kill her by strangling her while she had a plastic bag over her head. According to patch.com, it wasn't lost on investigators that this fantasy or plan was a close parallel to the blue sauna suit found on Judy's face.

• 31:21Speaker 03

  It was Judy's own words that probably say it best. She was afraid of Gable. One of her older sisters, Linda Labrie, recalled Judy talking about how he kept hitting on her and she didn't like it. It wasn't just flirty little compliments or harmless attempts to date her either. He had specifically told her that he wanted to see her naked. Her former coworkers at McCrally Nursing Home also knew that she was afraid of her neighbor. According to court documents, they didn't know his name, but he was described as a black man married to a white woman who was always hanging around her doors and windows. It was no secret that Gable made Judy uneasy.

• 31:59Speaker 00

  And Judy had a very good reason to be afraid. Gable had actually tried to break into her apartment on at least one previous occasion. This might be part of why, despite having his fingerprints on her window, authorities didn't feel confident that they had enough probable cause for an arrest or a strong enough case for the jury. He could simply claim that, yes, they were his fingerprints, but they had been left there in the past. He had been unsuccessful that time and never tried again. It would only take one juror to buy his version of the story to sink the case. And Gable actually claimed that he had helped Judy out once.

• 32:41Speaker 00

  When she had accidentally locked herself out of her apartment, he had to open a window and climb inside for her. Investigators felt they needed more than just his fingerprints. They needed something more concrete. And I can understand, you know, their hesitancy about moving forward just based on this information. You know, it would be one thing if this was a complete stranger, didn't live in the complex, had never had contact with Judy. But with Ernie Gable, that's not the case. I mean, he lived right next door. He admitted that he had tried to break in. He also said that, you know, he had helped her out once by climbing in through her window.

• 33:26Speaker 00

  You could see how a defense attorney could weave that into reasonable doubt about these fingerprints being left the night of the murder.

• 33:38Speaker 03

  And there's sensors, no. DNA, this is the days before DNA. They don't have a smoking gun inside the apartment that can conclusively link to Gable. So there's no eyewitness that saw him in there. So at this point, it's basically his word against the lack of evidence. Him saying, yeah, I did try and break in before, but that's why my prints are there. So I can understand why they would want to be careful moving forward with the prosecution, because if there's any juror that doubts anything that's presented and not enough to, in their mind, to convict him, that could sink the case and you don't get another crack at a conviction.

• 34:24Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, the thought that keeps running through my mind is what a slam dunk. This would probably be today, right? With today's technology, they have hair, they have semen, they have someone to match it to. That's usually a pretty easy case to try.

• 34:45Speaker 03

  It took multiple lawsuits to finally compel Ernie Gable to give up a sample of his hair, saliva, and blood. Investigators were sure that once they got the results, the case against Gable would be solid. His blood type would match the dried semen and the hair would match those found at the crime scene, and they would be able to charge Gable for killing Judy. His blood type did turn out to be type B, which was consistent with the semen sample. But when the FBI examined the hairs in December 1975, they were determined to be microscopically different than the hairs found at Judy's crime scene. The hairs taken from Gable did not appear to be consistent with the hair left by Judy's killer. The results of the FBI testing were a blow to investigators.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  There were no other valid leads or suspects beside Ernie Gable. Chief of the New Hampshire Cold Case Unit, Christopher Knowles, told the Boston Globe, "The FBI report created an insurmountable barrier to the prosecution, and as a result, the case went cold. It went cold and stayed cold."

• 35:46Speaker 00

  And I am absolutely fascinated. In the, in the seventies, even into the eighties, when you talk about comparing hairs, so many times in, in these cases, we've heard, well, they're microscopically similar, but it turned out that they weren't similar at all. In some cases, it turned out that one of them wasn't even a hair, it was a carpet fiber. But yet, some expert testified that they were microscopically similar. So here, the FBI is saying they're microscopically different. And I can see why that would be a huge blow to the prosecution's case.

• 36:30Speaker 03

  And if you're a suspect that's on trial for a crime you didn't commit, and there's hair evidence that they're saying is microscopically similar to yours, that's gotta be frightening because that's, doesn't say they're a 100% match. It just says they're similar, but back then, that carried so much weight. And, and I have to wonder, how many people may have been convicted by that kind of technique because they had similar hair to a killer? And maybe they were innocent. And they were put to death or given long prison sentences?

• 37:06Speaker 00

  Yeah, well, we're learning that it's actually quite a number. A lot of people were convicted on, I won't say solely, but in large part on hair evidence that turned out to not be nearly as scientific, and not even close, to what people thought it was.

• 37:29Speaker 00

  In 2003, the investigation into Judy Lord's murder was officially reopened by the Concord Police Detective Todd Flanagan. It took a lot of work to gather all the evidence, original files and interview transcripts. In 2008, the New Hampshire State Police Major Crime Unit reexamined the case file and found that Gregory Lord Sr.'s polygraph test had actually been inconclusive due to his emotional

• 37:59Speaker 00

  State neighbor Larry Caraway, who had had a sexual relationship with Judy was re-interviewed as part of the effort to solve her cold case. Now he claimed that his original story, the one where he heard Judy yell Gregory Lord's name was what had actually happened and that he had only changed his story from the truth because he felt pressured to tell investigators what they wanted to hear.

• 38:26Speaker 03

  Evidence was retested or some tested for the very first time with new technology. The semen stains on Judy's tails were used to extract a DNA sample. This DNA was a statistical match to Ernie Gables. It was now clear that police had been correct all along and now believe that Gable was their man. The FBI's microscopic analysis determination has been discounted as evidence in this case because since 1975, that process has been discredited as a form of valid forensic science. Hair may have certain characteristics, but cannot be conclusively linked to an identity based on visual examination. Now with DNA, there's no need to look at hairs.

• 39:09Speaker 03

  A 2015 joint report from the US Department of Justice and the FBI noted how often flawed testimony reports overstated forensic matches. Apparently more than 95% of the cases reviewed. It actually mentioned the agent who did the microscopic hair comparison in Judy's case by name.

• 39:29Speaker 00

  Well, we just got done talking about it, right? 95% of cases, the forensics were overstated. That is so fricking scary. Like you said, Morp, how many people were convicted on hair evidence in large part? And some of those people you know either spent a ton of their life in prison when they shouldn't have, or in some awful cases were put to death.

• 39:57Speaker 03

  But I don't know what the approach was back then by defense attorneys, how often they would argue that microscopically similar is not the same as exact. You know, that seems like it would be a, a no brainer of a, of a defense to push back on that. But we know convictions happen a lot of times based on that hair. So I don't know how effective pushing back on that was during that timeframe.

• 40:23Speaker 00

  Well, here's my thought, right? If you're a juror and the state has an expert, a forensic expert who is saying these two hairs are microscopically similar, that's probably going to be pretty powerful to a layperson. This is an expert. They should know what they're doing. But again, it's, it's come out over the years, kind of like polygraphs, right? That it's just not what it was thought to be back in the day.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  And on the flip side of the coin, I wonder how many suspects got away with crimes because their hair didn't look like the killers. You know, maybe for some reason they didn't think it was the same, even if that person was responsible, you know? How many of those people got away?

• 41:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure it worked both ways. New Hampshire Attorney General John Formella told NHPR.org, "The original Concord Police Department investigators showed extraordinary diligence, only to be thwarted by flawed forensic technology of the year. If they had had DNA back then, the hair examination report wouldn't have mattered. Everyone knew that Judy wanted nothing to do with a sexual relationship with Gable. So unlike his fingerprints, which could be explained away by previous incidents or just general creepiness, there would be no innocent explanation as to how his semen ended up in her home and around her body."

• 42:00Speaker 03

  On November 25th, 2025, New Hampshire State Police held a press conference announcing that Ernest Theodore Gable was in fact responsible for Judy's murder. After 50 years, the murder of Judith Lord is officially solved and her case is officially closed. Christopher Knowles, a senior assistant attorney general, who is also chief of the cold case unit, said at the press conference, "If Ernest Gable was alive today, we'd be able to prosecute him." And that's the tragedy here, is that Ernie Gable couldn't face justice. He died in 1987.

• 42:33Speaker 00

  After narrowly getting away with murder, you would think that Gable tried to stay off police radar. Instead, he continued to live a life of crime as he moved around the United States, sometimes using the name Ernest Stanberry. In October of 1975, he was arrested for possession of marijuana in Merrimack County, New Hampshire. At some point in November of 1976, he was released from the Merrimack County House of Corrections. He went to visit his wife Linda, who was living in Fall River, Massachusetts. By this time, they were estranged. He demanded that she let him take their two young daughters out to dinner, but she said

• 43:16Speaker 00

  no. Amazingly, he decided to get the police involved. And at the end of the day, he was able to take his daughters. The cold case unit memo notes that an officer convinced her to let the children go with their father, but doesn't give any further details. That night was the last time Linda saw her daughters for more than a decade. When he didn't return with the girls, an arrest warrant was issued for the charge of kidnapping.

• 43:44Speaker 03

  Ernie Gable was actually arrested for murder, just not Judy Lord's, in October 1977 in Joliet, Illinois. Around a month later, the charge was dismissed. There are no further details about this incident because apparently, according to thepatch.com, no official reports or records could be located to explain the circumstances of this arrest or its dismissal. This is especially frustrating because this arrest was less than one year after he had kidnapped his daughters, yet they weren't returned to their mother for another 13 years.

• 44:17Speaker 00

  In March of 1978, Gable was arrested and charged with armed robbery. For that, he actually spent some time behind bars. Two years, though he was sentenced to serve five years in prison. Gable completely fell off the map after he was released from prison and didn't resurface until 1984, when he was arrested on several different occasions. He was charged with being under the influence of a controlled substance on two different occasions, as well as burglary, forgery, robbery, theft of personal property, and taking a vehicle without consent.

• 44:55Speaker 03

  Ernie Gable died at Good Samaritan Hospital in Los Angeles, California on February 1st, 1987. The 36-year-old was stabbed in the chest on the street during some kind of argument. And though he was rushed to the hospital, he didn't make it. Most articles note that he was stabbed during a robbery, but information from the cold case unit suggests that he was arguing over debt when he was stabbed. Though it's unclear whether he was the one who owed money or was trying to collect it. A man named William Sandoval was eventually arrested for Gable's murder.

• 45:27Speaker 00

  Judy Lord's husband Gregory Lord Sr. passed away in March of 2019 at the age of 64. He was still living in Concord, New Hampshire at the time, though he passed at the Edith Norris Rogers Memorial Veterans Hospital in Bedford, Massachusetts. His and Judy's son Gregory Jr. isn't mentioned in his obituary, so it's not clear if they maintained a relationship. Though Gregory Jr. doesn't remember Judy because he was so young when she was killed, he has often thought of her throughout his life. He told the Concord Monitor, "I always keep her memory inside my heart. She will always be with me.

• 46:09Speaker 00

  I've been through a lot in my life, and in the dark times, I've always thought of my mom." He also noted how proud he is when people tell him how much he resembles his mother. Gregory isn't the only one who thinks of his mom. Police Chief Bradley Osgood told the Patch.com Concord

• 46:27Speaker 00

  Has never forgotten Judy and Judy's sister, Joanne Buck, told NHPR.org, "We lost someone that can never be replaced." And I think that is the, the true statement that applies to, you know, all of these cases more, you know, when someone is lost as, as a victim of a homicide, obviously they can never be replaced. Someone is taking that person out of their loved one's lives forever. You know, Judy doesn't get to be a mom to Gregory Jr. He doesn't get to learn from his mom.

• 47:09Speaker 00

  Their sisters, brothers, fathers, mothers, aunts, uncles. I mean, the web is just staggering sometimes when you think about it, of how many people are affected negatively by someone else's actions.

• 47:25Speaker 03

  Yeah, it really has a ripple effect. And it's not just the victim who's killed, but their entire family suffers for generations. And, you know, you think about it, she was 22 years old when she died. So that's very young. She had her whole life ahead of her essentially.

• 47:44Speaker 00

  Yeah, 22, you're just really starting out. I mean, you haven't really lived yet and that's a sad thing.

• 47:52Speaker 03

  One positive thing to come out of Judy's case is that the lawsuits we mentioned earlier, that finally allowed investigators to collect samples from Ernie Gable, set a very important precedent. It helped establish that physical samples do not fall under persons, Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination. And one can be legally compelled to give them up when there's probable cause. This is a very important precedent for so many past and future cases. Senior Assistant Attorney General Christopher Knowles told NHPR.org, "Something that investigators do routinely every day in investigations, collect a sample, was made possible as part of the legacy of Judith Lord."

• 48:33Speaker 00

  It's sad that Judy Lord's friends and family never got justice and never saw the man who police long believed to have killed her put away for his crime. But this case is proof that sometimes even decades after a murder, science can catch up and expose the truth. And I think more, you know, as we wrap this one up, we are seeing

• 48:58Speaker 00

  more and more cases like this be solved so many years later. I mean, we're talking 40, 50, 60 years later. Now, it's great that they can be solved. I think what is sad is that a lot of the time, the suspect has already passed away. And so, yeah, they can solve the case, say, yeah, we know who did it. But that person can't actually pay for the crime. And, you know, I think the other sad thing is that many of the relatives pass away before ever learning the truth. So there's a couple of things that that are tough to take.

• 49:43Speaker 00

  But what can you do? I mean, technology is going to solve more and more crimes.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, and even though sometimes the perpetrators aren't there to face justice, just being named and letting people know the truth about that person, maybe that is, you know, some kind of justice for families because they at least can see the face of the person that did this. You get to learn more about their background. And you find out guys like this guy, Ernie, not a good guy with a long history of criminal activity. And maybe that gives them some kind of peace of mind to finally put a name and a face to the person that did this.

• 50:30Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm sure it does. I'm sure it does. I mean, back to Ernie. To me, there's, there's no doubt why he was suspect number one, right? For many, many years. I think what is fascinating about this case is to go back and look at the 1970s forensic technology and the limitations that existed that, you know, pretty much prevented them from charging him and, and, you know, taking him to trial. I think you said it, Morv. If they made a mistake, if there was just one juror,

• 51:10Speaker 00

  then he would be acquitted and they wouldn't be able to charge him again. So I think, you know, they were right to be cautious about it. They have to be. But it was just really a lack of technology. The technology just wasn't there.

• 51:27Speaker 03

  You hit the nail right on the head earlier when you said more and more cases are getting solved this way. I hope there's other cases like Judy's where police thought they had their man, but just didn't have enough evidence at the time to prove it. And I hope a lot of those cases are going to be solved the way Judy's were when science catches up and can finally confirm maybe what police had suspected all along. Maybe we'll get more case results like this.

• 51:55Speaker 00

  Yeah, let's hope so because, you know, it really does upset me that a person makes the decision. Let's look at Ernie Gable. What decision did he make? He wanted something and he was willing to do whatever it took to get it, including murder. And the fact that he essentially got to live out the rest of his life. Now, he was incarcerated for other things, but that doesn't count to me. He didn't spend time in prison for what he did. And that's tough to take. That bothers

• 52:36Speaker 00

  But it's just the sad reality of, you know, some of these cases we talk about. But I'm with you, even so many years later, being able to definitively say, this is who committed the crime. I mean, that's, that is better than nothing for sure. It's better than what the family has lived with for, you know, so many years, 50 years.

• 53:02Speaker 03

  And to the credit of those original investigators too, they did the best with what they had at the time, and at least they did collect store and store evidence so that one day down the road, it could be used to solve the crime. So they did their job well in this case. And once science caught up, it, you know, it all fell into place.

• 53:25Speaker 00

  Yeah, absolutely. But that's it for our episode on Judy Lord. As always, if you love the show, but haven't done so yet, go out, take a minute, leave a review, leave a rating. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out.

• 53:41Speaker 03

  If you want to find us on social media, we're on every platform. Just search for criminology podcast on your favorites. You can also visit our website, criminologypodcast.com to get news about the show and listen to old episodes. And if you want to join a discussion group about the podcast and the cases we discuss, head over to Facebook and search for criminology podcast discussion and fans.

• 54:03Speaker 00

  So that's it for another episode of criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike.

• 54:13Speaker 03

  And Morph.

• 54:14Speaker 00

  We'll talk to you next week.

• 54:15Speaker 03

  Take care, everyone.