Alyssa Romine Olson

This week, Mike and Morf examine the baffling death of Alyssa Romine Olson, a deeply religious Arizona woman whose body was discovered in a shallow pond at Gilbert's Riparian Preserve in June 2016. Despite an extensive investigation, authorities have never determined whether Alyssa's death was the result of murder, suicide, or a tragic accident. Ten years later, the case remains one of the most perplexing unsolved mysteries in Arizona. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Hello, everyone, and welcome to episode 419 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

• 0:42Speaker 02

  And this is Mike Morford.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  Mr. Morford, how you doing this morning, buddy?

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Doing good, other than some technical difficulties, having some new cable installed. It's presenting a couple of problems, but trying to get work my way through it. How you doing?

• 0:56Speaker 01

  I'm doing great, but I will tell you, you have more technical difficulties than anybody I know. It seems like every week when we go to tape, there is a new technical difficulty.

• 1:08Speaker 02

  That's what I tell my wife. I tell my wife, there's a lot of technical difficulties going on, but one way or another, I get through it.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Well, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had new support from Kim Hubbard and Aaron Hawkins, so we really appreciate that.

• 1:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you so much to Kim and Aaron and to everyone else that helps support the show. And for anyone else that would like to head over to patreon.com/criminology.

• 1:31Speaker 01

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• 2:17Speaker 01

  All right, now that we have that out of the way, let's jump into this week's case. I have to say, this is an odd one. It's one that has baffled investigators because despite a suspicious death, no one is even sure whether a crime occurred in this case. If there was a crime, the killer got lucky that circumstances and timing basically erased all evidence of their involvement. If there wasn't a crime, there still aren't any answers about what actually happened here. We're talking about the puzzling death of Alyssa Romine Olson.

• 2:50Speaker 02

  Alyssa Nicole Romine was born on November 27th, 1985 in Phoenix, Arizona. She was one of 12 children, seven girls and five boys, though she was the only biological child of her parents, Ed and Barbara Romine. She grew up in the area and graduated from Gilbert High School. She started college but didn't finish a degree. Instead, she decided to travel and she spent six months living in Germany where she found work as a nanny. By 2012, she was living in Seattle, Washington. That year, she married Brayden Olson. At some point, Brayden started going by the name Elijah, but we're going to refer to him in this episode by his legal name, Brayden. He and Alyssa were both Christian and deeply involved in her faith.

• 3:34Speaker 02

  They had met each other in Arizona at an international house of prayer. Together, they continued to travel. Brayden had his youth pastor license and Alyssa once led the ministry for the church for the nation. To say that they were both very devout would be an understatement. Brayden's mother, Jody Hakla, told Gilbert Sun News, "You can't have a conversation with them without Jesus being in the mix."

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Alyssa's friends noted that after her marriage to Brayden, she got rid of her belongings and started withdrawing from her social life. Her close friends rarely got to see her after her marriage. She and Brayden even started sharing one cellphone. And even then, they would very rarely answer it or return a missed call. Brayden's mother, Jody, recalled that the couple belonged to the new apostolic reformation movement and that it was normal for them to- To basically disappear for some time while they traveled and filled their days with a lot of proselytizing. They weren't employed and relied on the kindness of others to survive, staying with friends and living off donations.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Alyssa didn't even have a bank account or a credit card because according to her mother Barbara, in an interview with the Gilbert Sun News, Alyssa didn't believe in those things. So more of I think right off the bat here, there's a few things to talk about. You know, I think the first is the change people saw in Alyssa after the marriage. Now, it could be normal for some people to kind of withdraw from some friends and things after getting married, right? Maybe your marriage becomes more of your world and you don't hang out with friends as much. But it can also be a bad sign.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  You know, we have seen it in many cases where some people, once married, kind of steer their spouse away from friends and family. And they, they start to kind of isolate them. And that usually is not a good thing.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  So it seems like this is something like you might see in a relationship where there's coercion or domestic abuse, that kind of thing where someone wants to cut their partner off from those closest to them. So this could be troubling.

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it could be. We don't know yet. But the second part is this kind of, you know, living a very, I guess you'd say, simple life, but having very few possessions, not having a job, living off of friends or donations, not even having a bank account or credit card. Okay, that's, that's a tough way to live for, for most of us. It's, it would be unthinkable, really.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  And if they were living this way strictly because of the religion and wanting to. Do that in the way that it's, you know, expected and that really shows how committed they were to that lifestyle. By 2016, Alyssa was 30 years old and living at her parents' house in Gilbert, Arizona, without Braden. She had decided to leave him. This wasn't the first time she had left him, but this time she was serious. He was in Washington State staying with friends. Alyssa's parents noticed that she was bummed out by the separation. She spent a lot of time in her room and hadn't been eating much. They figured that this was all a response to a breakup with Braden and that she just was depressed from being away from him.

• 7:08Speaker 02

  And that with some time, she'd start to feel like herself again. Until she was to that point, her parents planned to be there to support her however they could.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  And for parents, I mean, this is a tough situation, right? Breakups are tough for anyone. And you want to be very supportive. Sometimes though, you don't know what to do. And there's really not much you can do. You know, a person oftentimes just has to kind of get through the breakup and you just have to be there for them. But knowing what to do specifically is often very tough for a parent.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  And it seems at the very least, her parents were there for her to let her stay there and take her, take time to get through it and plan on supporting her the whole way.

• 7:54Speaker 01

  On June 9th, 2016, Alyssa's parents awoke to discover that she was gone. She had left the house early. Alyssa was a morning person, so this wasn't out of the ordinary. But when she was gone all day, didn't stop home for lunch and didn't come home by 7:00 PM. Her parents began to worry. They called her cell phone to try and check in with her, but she didn't answer. Alyssa's parents were trying not to become too worried and they hoped that she wasn't answering her cell phone because she was driving. But eventually her fatherette went out driving, looking for her, and he did end up finding the car she was driving.

• 8:35Speaker 01

  Her mother Barbara's blue Dodge Caravan parked in the Southeast Regional Library's South Parking Lot in Gilbert, which is also used by people visiting the Riparian Preserve at Water Ranch. This preserve is over 100 acres and features seven ponds and multiple trails.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Ed didn't get lucky when he spotted the caravan there. He had gone there because it was a place that Alyssa visited often, almost daily. Ed told the Gilbert Sun News, she went to the park every morning at sunup. She liked nature and to sit on the bench and read her journal. So finding her there would not be cause for alarm for Ed. However, it was dark and deserted and that was not normal. And the preserve closes at sundown. The car was locked and Alyssa wasn't in it. Just after 11:00 PM, Ed called 911 to officially report Alyssa as a missing person.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  And you know, Morph, in so many of these cases, we get to a point in the story where you know, family is worried, the worry grows, and then it eventually gets to the point where they have to call the police. And so we're at that point in the story. My heart always goes out to the family because it's hard not to put yourself in their position. You know, that feeling of just worry. And then at some point, I'm thinking complete panic because you are so sure that things are not right, that you have to call the police.

• 10:17Speaker 02

  And I think Ed knew his daughter's behavior and habits so much. He caught a break when he went to that location expecting he might find her there. And then he did find the car there. So that was probably some momentary relief only to discover that she's not in the car and there's no sign of her. So probably some real mixed emotions right at that time. A search for Alyssa began almost immediately. The preserve was cordoned off with crime scene tape. Search dogs were sent onto the trails and the Department of Public Safety sent a helicopter with infrared cameras up to try and spot any sign of Alyssa, but nothing was found. There was nothing useful on the library's security footage either. Officers checked the jail to make sure Alyssa wasn't in custody for some reason.

• 11:02Speaker 02

  And they also checked the hospital to make sure that she hadn't been brought in for any kind of injury or illness. They even checked local churches that she may have gone to just in case, but at every turn, they came up empty. There was no sign of Alyssa. Finally, that afternoon, Alyssa's body was spotted by a Maricopa County Sheriff's Air Unit. She was found lying face down in the water near the southeastern edge of pond number one. That end of the pond is basically a marsh filled with brush. It prevented searchers from spotting her body sooner, even from the air, and also initially kept the officer from getting within 50 feet of her body.

• 11:38Speaker 01

  Despite being found the day after she was reported missing, there was extensive decomposition to the parts of Alyssa's body that had been in the water. She could not be visually identified due to it. Instead, her identity was confirmed due to the presence of surgical pins in both hips. It's not clear why and when Alyssa had gotten a surgery that required surgical pins. There's nothing in any of the source materials about it. There was a lot of mud on the bottoms of Alyssa's feet and her palms, which had been facing upwards in the water and had mud stuck in the creases. According to the medical examiner's report, the higher concentration of mud on feet

• 12:23Speaker 01

  indicated her feet came into direct contact with a muddy surface. There were pattern abrasions noted on the back of the decedent, which may have come from the brush in the pond, but we don't know for sure. It sounds like due to the amount of decomposition that had already begun, any possible marks left on the front of her body would have been impossible to distinguish. Unfortunately, the Maricopa County Medical Examiner was unable to determine Alyssa's cause or manner of death. That means we don't know how she died, and we don't even know whether whatever happened to her was an accident, a murder, or a suicide.

• 13:05Speaker 01

  All we know is that the medical examiner found no gross anatomic abnormalities potentially causing or related to death. And I think there's a lot to break down here. It was noted that by her father, anyway, she loved to go to this preserve, went there almost daily. They find her body the day after, right? She's reported missing. And there's a couple of things that stand out. You know, one is the amount of decomposition on the parts of her body that were in the water. It is summer in Arizona. It gets very, very hot, right out there.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  It does seem like a lot of decomp in that period of time to be visually unrecognizable. And then, you know, the other thing is, okay, mud on the, the feet, mud on, in the palms. The medical examiner says, you know, mud on the feet came from direct contact with a muddy surface. That seems very, very logical, but what does it mean? Does it mean that she walked there voluntarily? What about on the palms? Does it mean that she was on her, you know, hands and knees maybe at some point? We just don't know.

• 14:28Speaker 01

  And then I think the not being able to determine cause or manner of death makes, you know, the subsequent investigation really difficult.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is a lot of stuff to go through for the police and the medical examiner. And unfortunately, it seems like it led to more questions than answers. I thought it was strange that she was, her body was decomposing so bad already that she was unrecognizable after such a short time. And I did see that the temperatures in Arizona can get up to a hundred degrees in June. And maybe there's other conditions like being in the water or other things like that that could speed that process up. But that was something I hadn't heard before decomposition that fast, that's so bad, it makes someone unrecognizable.

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• 16:40Speaker 02

  The news of Alyssa's death was hard enough for her parents, but without drowning as the cause of death and no signs of trauma noted on the body and no sign of what happened to her, it probably didn't take long for them to start imagining all kinds of scenarios. The water near her body was also somewhat shallow, only five and a half inches deep near her left ankle and only half an inch near her right ankle. An accidental death seems unlikely for the same reasons. Investigators drained the pond but found nothing related to her death. A toxicology test came back negative for drugs. Alyssa had no known issues with alcohol or substance use. Her body was found nude, but there was no evidence of sexual assault. An evidence collection kit found only Alyssa's DNA.

• 17:23Speaker 01

  So, I think you add this information into the mix and it only makes things that much more strange and hard to figure out. When you look at the possible causes of death, right? Accident, murder, suicide, things like that. Well. Which ones seem more likely? I mean, take accident, for example. You have an accident near the pond, but in what? Five inches of water? Okay, that doesn't seem likely. You take suicide. It doesn't seem from the evidence that we have that there would be a way for that to have occurred.

• 18:06Speaker 01

  But at the same time, Morf, there's really no evidence of murder.

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is just adding more confusion. And, you know, one thing about her being nude, that's like a whole nother level of questions. You know, was she deciding to take off her clothes and walk out there nude? Did someone force her to do that? That's a very strange scenario for her to be nude. But it seemed clear from the evidence on her body that there was no sign of sexual assault, which again, just leads to more questions.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  Unfortunately, the police reports available from this case are heavily redacted. But as far as we know, Alyssa's clothes, shoes, and the keys to her mom's car were never found, even after the pond was empty. To many people, this is one of the biggest mysteries here. These items not being found in the area where Alyssa was found, or even back in her car, heavily implies the presence of another person at the scene. Then again, you know, is it possible that all of this stuff ended up in another pond, a nearby pond that wasn't drained? You know, that we don't know. Of course, if Alyssa met with foul play and had been attacked, perhaps her attacker took that stuff away.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Or maybe a person walking through the area simply collected what they thought were discarded items of clothing and didn't realize there was a dead body in the pond nearby. Due to police report redactions, we also don't know what her phone records reveal about her final moment.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  Alyssa's parents don't believe that she took her own life. We know that there are many families who can't face the thought of loved one who decided to take their own life, whether because it's too painful, or they think they could have done more to stop it, or it goes against their own religious beliefs. But in this case, it's not just the family that had doubts about suicide. Alyssa herself apparently had a strong stance against suicide. Her mom Barbara told the Gilbert Sun News that Alyssa quote criticized others believing they were not true believers if they committed suicide. Alyssa's parents told investigators that they had not heard or seen signs or symptoms of any suicidal thoughts, attempts, or intentions, though they didn't deny that she was showing signs of depression after the breakup.

• 20:28Speaker 02

  According to her parents, she had never been diagnosed with any mental illnesses. Her husband Braden also believes that suicide is unlikely, though it was for a different reason. According to the Gilbert Sun News, he told police, "I feel like the Lord showed me that she didn't commit suicide."

• 20:45Speaker 01

  So to those who knew Alyssa best, suicide didn't seem like a likely scenario here, but investigators also don't believe that Alyssa was attacked in any kind of robbery. She was still wearing all of the jewelry she normally had on, two white metal rings, one with clear stones, and a metal necklace with a charm on it. Perhaps the answers about what happened to Alyssa lie in her movements leading up to her death. Unfortunately, we don't actually know what time Alyssa left her parents' house for the last time. We only know that she was home when her parents went to bed around eight or nine the night before, and she was gone by the next morning.

• 21:28Speaker 01

  Maybe police with the help of cellphone pings or surveillance cameras have more of a trail to follow in establishing Alyssa's movements that day, but if they know more, they haven't said it publicly. And that is one of the most challenging... Parts to a case like this, you know, police, I think almost always no more than we do, because they just don't let everything out there. You know, they withhold information. We know that. And most of the time it's for a very good reason, but it does make, you know, trying to analyze some of these cases very difficult because you just don't

• 22:11Speaker 01

  have the facts, all of them. And there's no way to get them.

• 22:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, we mentioned a couple of times, the reports are heavily redacted. So it doesn't mean that police didn't find certain things. They may have that and the public isn't aware of it. But those are the things unfortunately that might help provide more answers or connect more dots. And we just don't have all of them. And because we just don't know enough about what happened to Alyssa that day, and who, if anyone was involved in her death, we have to speculate some. According to her father, Ed, it was her routine almost every day to sit by the pond. It's possible that someone with bad intentions took notice of Alyssa there on one of her many visits. Park Rangers certainly did on multiple occasions, recalling that she was usually by herself and that it looked like she was meditating, perhaps reflecting

• 23:00Speaker 02

  on her life. Alyssa was apparently very headstrong. She was kicked out of her parents' home when she was 17 for talking back to her mother and being disrespectful. Their relationship appears to have been repaired over the years since, but that fiery spirit remained within Alyssa. One of her friends described her to the Gilbert Sun News as a fearless, beautiful person that will just go up to anybody. And according to her father, Ed, Alyssa would basically go right up to any stranger she could if she saw an opportunity to talk about her religion and her Savior. Even when he warned her that walking up to strangers to preach to them could be dangerous, she would say, I'm not afraid. This is a theory on more than just the minds of her family members.

• 23:41Speaker 02

  One of Alyssa's friends, Blake Tricky, told the Gilbert Sun News that he wondered if she started praying with someone and she upset them.

• 23:49Speaker 01

  As we noted earlier, Brayden and Alyssa were part of the new apostolic reformation movement. This is not exactly the same as being a more traditional or mainstream Christian. This movement places a lot more importance on modern prophets and apostles and emphasizes signs from the Lord. There's also a lot about miracles, prophecies, and the spirit being under attack from evil forces like demons or Satan. So when Alyssa would walk up to a stranger and start talking to them about Jesus, it probably wasn't just, have you heard of Jesus? Have you accepted him?

• 24:29Speaker 01

  It was probably more about how God had told her to talk to the person and about how their spirit was under attack. One of her friends even mentioned that she would pray to God before choosing an outfit for the day or deciding on a meal. This could have been upsetting to people, even those who do believe in God, if they had very different beliefs. And the wrong person, who may not have wanted to be bothered at all, may have been extremely aggravated by her trying to pray for them or convert them. And she may have been hard to deter. One of her friends called her the most cellist Christian he knew. So I think we have to wonder here more.

• 25:13Speaker 01

  Did Alyssa try to talk to the wrong person? And they became angry and then some kind of altercation ensued.

• 25:22Speaker 02

  Police tried to find people who were in the area where Alyssa died to see if they could offer any information that might help provide answers. There were two unhoused men who were in and around the Riparian Preserve the night and into the morning that Alyssa likely ended up in the pond. There was also a man who liked to spend time at Southeast Regional Library and ride his bike around the preserve. Detectives interviewed the three men, but they didn't have any information about Alyssa's death. The man who liked to ride his bike was a registered sex offender, so officers actually searched his belongings. His backpack contained a bunch of writing with religious themes, a pair of latex gloves, and a hair tie. It's usually referred to as a woman's hair tie in news reports, but there's no clear description given.

• 26:07Speaker 02

  And while it's true that women more often use hair ties, some men with long hair do use them too. The difference is that men will usually go for a thin, black elastic band, while women will go for colors, patterns, and extra details like bows and ribbons. And there was nothing noted about any female hair being found in the hair tie, so it seems like this was just an assumption. The man claimed that the latex gloves were from his place of employment, a restaurant called Pita Jungle. He said he would take extra gloves with him when his shifts ended so that he could use them. He also explained that the hair tie was left over from when he had longer hair.

• 26:44Speaker 01

  While it seems that police didn't think this man had anything to do with Alyssa's death, they were interested in some information he shared with them. He told investigators that on June 8th or 9th, he heard the sound of a gunshot in the preserve and then saw a black man leaving the area, which he found odd because he couldn't recall having seen a black man at the preserve before. He told officers, "They should find that man and question him." Now, we don't know whether this man existed, or if it was a complete fabrication, and if police were looking for someone like this, investigators didn't, at least that we know

• 27:24Speaker 01

  of, due to all of the redactions, find anyone who was muddy, covered in scratches from the brush, looked like they had been in a struggle, or had any of Alyssa's belongings in their possession. It seems likely if they had found anyone like this, or found someone who had any of her clothes or the car key, we would have heard about them being interviewed. Their name may have been redacted, but it seems likely that their entire existence would not have been kept from the public. This leads many people to believe that investigators just came up empty here. So there were no witnesses, no good suspects, no leads they could follow, not really much

• 28:07Speaker 01

  of anything in the way of evidence to try to make sense of. And I mean, it's hard to say more if that this guy is not an interesting person or a person of interest is probably a better way to say it. You know, when you think about what's in his backpack, right? Okay, a bunch of writing with religious themes. That's not that big a deal. Anybody could have that. A pair of latex gloves. Could you have that in your backpack? Sure. For good reason, possibly. The hair tie? Yeah. If at one point you had long hair or whatever. But you know, when you think of latex gloves,

• 28:50Speaker 01

  a lot of times you think of them when it's outside the home as being possibly part of a kit. Cause we have seen that many, many times. And then, you know, this, this individual giving police a story about a black male leaving the area after a gunshot was heard. Okay. Is that true? Or is that an attempt to throw the police off in the wrong direction?

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think police had to look closely at this guy, especially because he was a registered sex offender as opposed to an upstanding model citizen. And, you know, he does have these couple of things in his bag that any one of them alone might make him look suspicious possibly. But I also would be more suspicious myself if there were things in there, like a ski mask or maybe a knife or things that might indicate that he was threatening or carrying out a crime, something like that. So I think it really comes down to the individual person and how suspicious that stuff looks.

• 29:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm kind of with you on that. You know, I talked about the latex gloves. Normally I think if that was a kit, you would see a lot more things, right? To go with them. Just having the gloves by themselves doesn't seem like much of a kit, but who knows?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I carry latex gloves in my truck just because I never know what I'm going to have to clean up. My kids making a mess in the truck, that kind of stuff. Um, so, you know, just the gloves on the, on their own, to me at least, don't seem all that damning.

• 30:32Speaker 01

  No, no, they really don't.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  Despite police seemingly not coming up with anyone of interest, Alyssa's family members know there is at least one suspicious person that was known to hang out in the preserve. In October 2016, four months after Alyssa's death, her sister Chelsea and other family members were placing new flowers at a memorial for her. Chelsea saw an Asian man with thick hair and a muscular frame walk right out of the bushes and leave the preserve. According to the Gilbert Sun News, later at Ed and Barbara's house where Alyssa had been living, Chelsea saw the same man drive by suspiciously slow. If investigators ever found a man matching this description, the public doesn't know about it. Now Alyssa's sister Chelsea found

• 31:16Speaker 02

  this guy pretty suspicious and you know, she at that point, who knows, maybe she would find a lot of people suspicious. She's looking for answers, trying to find out who might have done something to her sister. But if she really saw this man coming out of the preserve all of a sudden, walking past out of the bushes and then later saw this person at the family's home, driving by slow, that seems kind of strange if it was really him. Now, maybe it was just mistaken identity or something, but you know, if it's the same person, that does seem a little strange.

• 31:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would agree if it is the same person, but we don't know that for sure. And that's, you know, just part of the problem. Alyssa's family also reported a man to investigators in November of 2017 because according to them, he was obsessed with their family and was beginning to become harassing towards them. This man had been a friend of Alyssa's since 2010, though his name is redacted. According to her parents, this man believed initially that Alyssa's husband Brayton had killed Alyssa, but later decided against it because he would have needed connections

• 32:33Speaker 01

  in Arizona to pull it off. And obviously, many people are suspicious of Alyssa's husband, who she was separated from at the time of her death. The husband, especially the estranged or soon to be ex, is often the number one suspect in any kind of suspicious death or disappearance.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  Authorities did look into Alyssa's husband Brayden, trying to rule his involvement in or out. Detectives from the Gilbert Police Department interviewed Brayden Olson three times. According to him, Alyssa left him because, quote, "He could not follow the Lord's ways as Alyssa wanted, and that he had thoughts of not being faithful to her." He also told investigators that he wanted to get a house and a job, and he wanted to smoke and drink, and Alyssa didn't approve of any of this. But he told his mother Jody that he left Alyssa because he needed some space. When he returned to Washington after the separation, he was living with his mom Jody. He recalled that he was inconsolable and having regrets about leaving Alyssa. He said he had been trying to call her for days, but she wouldn't answer.

• 33:39Speaker 01

  Brayden left his mother's house when he got angry with her for voicing her worry over his safety and the extent of his religious beliefs. He started staying with friends. After this, he told officers that the day before Alyssa's death, they spoke on the phone for three hours. A friend he was staying with also told investigators about the call. According to the Gilbert Sun News, Brayden actually believed demons were involved in Alyssa's death. When asked what he thought happened to her, he said, "I feel like she was attacked. The Lord told me that she was attacked by Satan spiritually. I feel like

• 34:21Speaker 01

  it's almost like she got thrown in the water, or something by a demon, or something." He was pretty adamant about it to police, adding, "I really, really believe that, honestly believe that because of what Jesus told me." And more if, you know, everybody listening knew, we were going to get back around to Brayden. There's just no way around it. I mean, there's, there's some strange stuff here, right? He believes in certain things, maybe has beliefs that are much different than you or I or, or other people listening. Now, does he actually believe in all of that? Or is he just telling the cops some of this

• 35:02Speaker 01

  stuff? I mean, you know, all of that is hard to figure out. But he obviously, at least according to his statement to police, felt that Alyssa was attacked and then thrown into the water.

• 35:18Speaker 01

  Because that's what Jesus told him. But it wasn't just attacked and thrown in the water by a person. He's specifically talking about a demon. Now, I don't know what a demon means to him. Are we talking about an actual demon like out of a movie? Or are we talking a person could be a demon? I'm a little unsure about that part.

• 35:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm kind of picturing the investigators talking to him and, you know, them looking at each other as they're listening to what he's got to say, sort of in disbelief, like, did he really just say a demon? But they have to question him and listen to what he has to say because he's a, someone that could be a potential suspect. Interestingly, Brayden asked investigators to treat him as Alyssa's next of kin when giving updates about the investigation instead of her parents, despite their separation. It seemed that Alyssa's parents didn't get along with Brayden, or at least he didn't get along with them. At a memorial held for Alyssa at Sun Valley Community Church, Brayden refused to let any of her family members speak about her.

• 36:28Speaker 02

  Only members of the church, who Alyssa's family didn't know, were allowed to speak, and each one spoke for half an hour. More than one of the church members allegedly stated that it was better for Alyssa to be dead than to be living with her parents. As an aside, things like this made Alyssa's sister Chelsea wonder whether a member or members of Alyssa's church were involved in her death. The mud on her feet and the fact that she was found nude brings to mind some kind of baptism scenario. Chelsea told officers that she did wonder if one of the church members would have told Alyssa that they would baptize her in the water to make her a reborn Christian, or if it was possible that members held her underwater lightly, so as not to leave marks.

• 37:11Speaker 02

  The treatment of Alyssa's parents at this memorial is sad, but maybe there was nothing sinister about it and the church just had a rule about who can speak at their ceremonies. It would have been an uncomfortable memorial for sure, but it doesn't necessarily make them murders. And one of Alyssa's friends told officers that her church didn't do baptisms in open water like a pond.

• 37:31Speaker 01

  Looking closer at the relationship between Alyssa and Brayden, investigators found that things weren't always peaceful between them. He admitted that he had once grabbed a knife and threatened Alyssa, telling her to shut up because they were staying at a friend's house and she was praising God in the middle of the living room and the kitchen, and she wouldn't stop. Brayden reportedly wouldn't take a voice stress analysis, a kind of like lie detector test done using your voice, telling police instead, "I don't feel like the Lord is telling me to take the test." Investigators told him that it could only be used to rule him out

• 38:14Speaker 01

  and could never be used against him in court, but he still refused, based on the answer he said he received when he prayed on it. Officers were able to search his cellphone records and devices, though. They found multiple conversations between Brayden and other unknown females on adult dating sites, as well as pornographic sites and sexual images, which they have said lines up with the reason he said Alyssa left him.

• 38:46Speaker 02

  One of the friends Brayden was staying with around the time of Alyssa's death felt it was unlikely that he had killed her, though they obviously had some doubts. They added one caveat to that reportedly telling police, "Unless Alyssa threatened him with divorce and Brayden felt it would affect his progression in his religion." As we've seen, Brayden's religion was extremely important to him. He spoke about the Lord very often, and we know that they were separated and Alyssa did really seem done with him this time. So if that was the only likely reason he would kill Alyssa, maybe it's not a stretch to think that he could have.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  But I am seeing a little bit of a hypocrisy here more, and I have to point it out. Right? He's so dedicated to his religion, but at the same time, he's having multiple conversations with females on adult dating sites. He's viewing porn. Does that line up with his religion? I don't know the answer to that, but my first thought is probably not, especially when it comes to being married.

• 39:56Speaker 01

  And talking to these women on adult dating sites.

• 40:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it clearly shows that he's either hypocritical, you know, or, you know, maybe he's just human and he does have faults, which sort of, as we mentioned, reinforced the reason he gave to investigators of why Alyssa was done with him.

• 40:17Speaker 01

  As far as we know, Braden was in Washington when Alyssa died. Now I say as far as we know, because of all the redactions in the police report and also the fact that we don't seem to know exactly where he was on June 8th and June 9th. He wasn't staying at his mom's anymore. He was couch surfing with friends and other family members, but they obviously wouldn't be keeping tabs on him 24/7. The thing is, it's a long way from Washington to Gilbert, Arizona. But Braden was used to traveling and doing so by talking to people and getting donations, even if he didn't have his own car, which we don't

• 41:00Speaker 01

  know because it's not mentioned in any of the sources. He was capable of making his own way down there and back. Now, whether he did this or not is completely up in the air, but we have to assume investigators also thought of this possibility. They searched his devices. They spoke to the friends he stayed with. If there was an obvious lie or a piece of evidence to link him to Alyssa's death, it seems like they would have pushed him harder. A friend he was staying with says he was there in Washington when they learned that Alyssa was missing and later when they learned that she had died. How

• 41:40Speaker 01

  likely is it that Braden had enough time to get to Arizona and back undetected?

• 41:48Speaker 02

  So assuming Braden really was staying in Washington at the time, then whatever happened to Alyssa, no matter what it was, he couldn't have been in Arizona to do something to Alyssa himself. Tammy, one of Alyssa's sisters, offered a scenario where Braden was in Washington and still involved. She told police, perhaps Brayden told Alyssa to meet one of his friends at the preserve, and that is who causes Alyssa's death. Many people started out Brayden's Washington alibi as a certainty, when you think about his nomadic lifestyle, and learned that Brayden seems to know details about the area that he really shouldn't have if he wasn't there. He was actually able to draw a map of the preserve and the pond where Alyssa's body

• 42:29Speaker 02

  was found. It was incredibly detailed. Brayden claimed to have seen the location on the news and heard details about the area on news coverage, but according to detectives, this was impossible. The exact location of her body had not been disclosed to the public, and detectives combed through local news footage, trying to match the map to any coverage, but were unable to find the clip that Brayden would have seen. While this is certainly interesting, it doesn't prove Brayden had anything to do with Alyssa's death.

• 42:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would say, right? There's no proof, but can you rule him out solely based on the fact that it is thought he was in Washington at the time? And I would say definitely no. Now, maybe it's possible that police have ruled out that he's not in Arizona at the time, but that doesn't mean that he couldn't have been the catalyst for, you know, instigating whatever happened to Alyssa.

• 43:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, we've seen many cases where someone is involved in someone else's death, even if they're not at the scene when it happens. So I think police had to consider this possibility.

• 43:41Speaker 01

  According to ABC15.com, two years after Alyssa's death, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark Marino explained the lack of details released to the media, saying, "We have to be very concerned about the information we provide to the public, because if there is a suspect identified, if there is a suspect in this case, we don't want to do anything that's going to jeopardize this case of trial." It seems that when you look at Brayden's knowledge of the scene, that shouldn't have been public, this strategy of holding back details does make a lot If we assume that Alyssa was murdered, the person with knowledge only the killer would

• 44:22Speaker 01

  have is obviously the person that investigators should look into the most. But if they lay out their entire case, you know, every name, every detail and location, just kind of out there for the public, how would authorities be able to prove their suspect wasn't just well read and keeping up with the local news?

• 44:44Speaker 02

  It's important to note that investigators aren't even sure whether Alyssa's death is connected to a crime, let alone there being a suspect in this case. In 2019, Gilbert Police Sergeant Mark Marino told ABC15.com, "At this point, we don't have a predominant theory. We don't have clear-cut evidence to show that someone else is responsible for her death. We don't have clear-cut evidence to show this was an accidental death."

• 45:09Speaker 01

  This is a very frustrating case, and especially so for Alyssa's family. There's so many cases where a family can't accept the official ruling, or where a suspect is still out there somewhere. But in this case, Alyssa's family is stuck in some kind of grief limbo. Grieving and healing can look very different, depending on what happened. If you know someone is responsible, your anger can drive you to push forward, seeking justice. If you think your loved one took their own life, it can eat at you, making you wonder where things went wrong, what you could have done differently, why they didn't come to

• 45:51Speaker 01

  you for help. You might find purpose in mental health advocacy or volunteering. You may just live your life differently, and remember your loved one each time you reach out to help someone. If there was a tragic and fatal accident, maybe you help institute some safety precautions to keep something like it from happening again. You would probably feel like there's something actionable in each of these situations. But when you don't even know what happened, what's left? My thought is, all that's left is the loss, but also the confusion, and the lack of answers. Has to be like some type of pause button on the

• 46:36Speaker 01

  lives of all of Alyssa's loved ones.

• 46:39Speaker 02

  Unfortunately, in the 10 years since Alyssa's death, there's been no update on her case. After a decade, the cause and manner of her death remain undetermined. Her sister Chelsea told the Gilbert Sun News, "Everything is so heavily redacted when you try to go through it. There's not much you're seeing." And her father Ed told ABC15.com, "There's no closure because you don't know what happened." Alyssa's parents are in their 80s now, still waiting for answers. Sergeant Mark Marino summed it up best, telling ABC15.com, "The reality is, this may be a case that we're unable to ever determine what really happened." What he said was accurate, but it doesn't make the lack of answers in this case any

• 47:20Speaker 02

  less frustrating. If you have any information about the death of Alyssa Romine Olsen, you can contact the Gilbert Police Department by calling 480-503-6500.

• 47:31Speaker 01

  So Morpheus, we wrap this one up. It is a frustrating one, right? It's unsolved. There are a lot of questions. There's definitely more questions than answers, no doubt about that. You know, my thought is that Alyssa and Braden, they lived, you know, I don't want to call it a strange life. What I will say is it's different probably than most people. They were super religious, which many people are, but they also led this kind of nomadic lifestyle in which they traveled a lot, but they did so and

• 48:11Speaker 01

  kind of got by through donations and help from others. That's not how most people live. And I'm not saying it's good or bad. One of the things that really stands out at me is, you know, her death coming after this kind of separation or this breakup. And some of the things that have come out, you know, about Braden over the years, okay, I mean, it's definitely something to pay attention to. We don't know what it means exactly. What would his motive have been?

• 48:48Speaker 01

  Because to me motive is very important. Now, is it also possible that this was a stranger murder? Yeah, absolutely. Somebody maybe had spotted Alyssa on her numerous trips to the preserve. And they decided that she was going to become their victim. Now, the thing about that that is strange to me is just the crime scene in general. No sign of sexual assault, no real sign of robbery. And then the way that her body is left nude, partially in the water, but in very shallow water.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  I guess, you know, at the end of the day, I'm kind of ruling out accident and suicide. Because I just don't see anything there that would lead me to believe that either of those is really a viable scenario. Which kind of leaves murder. But what would that murder have been for? If a stranger murdered Alyssa, was it just for the sake of murder? We've heard about people wanting to find out what it feels like to commit murder. Could that be what happened here? I just don't know.

• 50:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it's very frustrating. It's hard to know what to think. It's hard to come up with a theory. Nothing really makes sense. You know, we talked earlier about there being no drugs or alcohol in her system. There was no sign of sexual assault, but yet she's nude. And there's no clear cause of death. You know, there's no obvious signs of strangulation. She wasn't stabbed or shot. So I I'm almost left thinking that this could be an accident. Maybe she was walking out there, tripped, fell and went unconscious and you don't need a lot of water to, if you're face down in the water to drown. But then that leads back to more questions. Okay. Even if she

• 51:01Speaker 02

  got undressed for some reason, where is her clothes? Where's the rest of the stuff that she had? How come that wasn't found? So it to me, it just, it just leads to more questions. Anytime you come up with a theory, you go down another rabbit hole.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  And and it's kind of why I go away from accident. First of all, given everything we know about Alyssa, does she seem like the type of person who would go skinny dipping? And I would say no. Right? Extremely religious. Doesn't seem to me to be the person who would just willingly take off all her clothes and want to go into this pot. That's just the sense I get.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  I agree with you on that. And I, I wonder if perhaps she could have had some kind of mental break and stripped down for whatever, for whatever reason, walked out there. But then again, how does she die? Does she lay down face first in the water and somehow hold her head under there? Or did someone else do that? Just so many unanswered questions. I, it's hard to come to any conclusions.

• 52:05Speaker 01

  It is, but it is a, a fascinating, while very tragic case, but the details around it are so strange that you'd have to say it's fascinating because these are all things that you can analyze. And many people have, but hopefully, you know, we'll get a resolution at some point in time because obviously her family really deserves it. But that's it for our episode on the death of Alyssa Romine Olson. As always, if you love the show, but you haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, leave us a review, leave a rating. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really goes a long way.

• 52:47Speaker 02

  If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. Just search for Criminology Podcast on your favorites. And for news about the show, old episodes, and more, head over to our website, criminologypodcast.com. If you want to join a discussion about the show and the cases we cover, head over to Facebook and search for the group Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  So that's it for another episode of Criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike

• 53:18Speaker 02

  And Morph.

• 53:19Speaker 01

  We'll talk to you next week.

• 53:20Speaker 02

  Take care, everyone.