The Romeoville Murders

In September 2023, authorities in Romeoville, Illinois, discovered one of the most disturbing family murders in recent memory. Inside a home on Concord Avenue, investigators found 32-year-old Zoraida Bartolomei, her partner Alberto Rolon, their sons Adriel and Diego, and the family's three dogs shot to death. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the Romeoville Murders. The police investigation uncovered an affair between Zoraida and co-worker Nathaniel Huey Jr. Nathaniel initially cooperated with investigators but refused searches of his phone and vehicle, making detectives increasingly suspicious. What the police discovered next shocked everyone and was more bizarre than any movie script. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 414 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  And this is Mike Morford.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Morf, what's going on with you, buddy?

• 0:47Speaker 02

  Uh, not much, just, uh, ready to get back in the saddle here. We've had a little bit of time off and I'm ready to get recording this episode. What's new with you?

• 0:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, we had a, we had a little bit of a vacation and it was nice, recharged the batteries, we're ready to go for the rest of the year. Um, I had a great vacation. We went to Jamaica. My daughter got married, so it was a big week, man. But I will say, we stayed in sandals and I've never stayed at one. It was an awesome experience, man. I would go back. It was really fun.

• 1:18Speaker 02

  Yeah, I know you were excited to go and your daughter was excited to get married. Congratulations to her and I'm glad you guys had fun and made it back safe.

• 1:26Speaker 01

  Yep, now it's, everybody's back into the swing of things. Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had some great new support from Liz and Dathan Simpson. So we very much appreciate it.

• 1:39Speaker 02

  Yeah, thank you so much. That support really helps us out and for anyone else that would like to help support the show, head over to patreon.com/criminology to get started.

• 1:48Speaker 01

  All right, let's jump into this episode, Morf. And this is a case where nothing really turned out to be as it seemed. An entire family in Romeo Ville, Illinois was killed in the middle of the night and no one saw or heard anything. The person who actually pulled the trigger was misled. The one behind it all was also killed. So it's a very complicated case and it took investigators nearly a year to figure out exactly what happened and why. At its core, it seems like the motives here involve jealousy and anger and it's a case that left an entire family dead.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  And we do have to give out a quick warning to our pet lovers. We do have to talk about some violence to animals in this episode.

• 2:39Speaker 02

  Just before 9pm on the night of Sunday, September 17th, 2023, the sister of 32-year-old Zoraida Bartolome called the police. She was very concerned for her sister and didn't know what else to do. Zoraida's partner, 28-year-old Alberto Roland, hadn't made it to work that day, and neither he nor Zoraida would respond to texts or calls to their phones. This was completely unlike them and it was just too long for them to be out of touch. Alberto's shift started at 6:00 in the morning and he never showed up for work, which was unusual. Even if he overslept or decided to stay home for some reason, ignoring calls or texts was strange. People tried to get ahold of both Zoraida and Alberto all day with no luck.

• 3:22Speaker 02

  Even more concerning was that the couple had two young children, Adriel, who's 10, and Diego, who was seven, and they too were unaccounted for. Finally, after 6pm, Zoraida's sister made the call to police, asking them to check on her sister and family who lived in Romeoville, Illinois, about 26 miles southwest of Chicago.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  The authorities acted quickly. Romeoville Police immediately conducted a welfare check on the family. They pulled up to the couple's home and found it eerily quiet and dark. They knocked on the front door and got no answer. They peered in through the windows and saw no movement inside the home. Looking through one of the windows into a bedroom, children's toys lay on the floor, but there were no signs of any kids. Body cam video of this incident can be found on YouTube and it's pretty creepy and you can really sense just how uneasy the officers on scene were. They made their way around. To the back of the home and were able to access the back door and found one of the windows

• 4:25Speaker 01

  broken. Peaking inside, they found a gruesome scene. Two of the family's three dogs were lying dead on the floor. Seeing this, they made entry through the door and found even more carnage. Furniture had been knocked over and it looked like the house had been ransacked. Then they found the bodies. Alberto was dead in one bedroom and another, they found the bodies of Zoraida and her children, along with that of their third dog. All of them and their dogs had been shot to death. And more, over the years, we've talked about a lot of gruesome scenes. I mean, it's, it's part

• 5:04Speaker 01

  of what we do, right? When you're breaking down the details of crimes and murders, well, obviously there are going to be some really dark details. This one, I gotta be honest with you. It is shocking. That's the word that comes to mind. And I'm trying to think of, you know, these officers who were on scene, even doing what they do, day in and day out. This had to have been a shocking scene.

• 5:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think police officers are trained to handle these stressful situations, but they're still human. So to see this carnage, to see these bodies, especially when you have, you know, pets, children involved, you know, that's something that I'm sure is probably stuck with them since this happened. And, you know, they see a lot of stuff every day, but it's, they probably don't see this kind of thing often.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think you make a great point, right? Police officers are human. So even though, like you said, they're trained, they do this stuff kind of day in and day out, they still have emotions. Unless you're completely heartless or you're a robot, you know, seeing this type of carnage, especially with the children and the dogs. And I mean, that is going to bring about a flood of emotions. You know, there, there's going to be sadness for what happened, but there's also going to be anger. Like who did this? And we've got to find them. I, I think that's gotta be part of the emotions as well.

• 6:48Speaker 02

  Responding officers were understandably shaken by what they'd stumbled into, and detectives showed up on scene to try and piece together what had happened. The immediate thoughts were that either Alberto or Zareda had killed the family and the dogs before taking their own life in a family annihilation scenario. But it quickly became clear that everyone inside had been the victim of an unknown suspect who had flooded the scene. That meant that there was someone, at least one person, out there who had no qualms about killing children and animals. They could have been anyone, and they could have been anywhere. Police questioned nearby neighbors, but none of them reported hearing or seeing anything unusual. Investigators believe the murders took place very late on Saturday or very early on Sunday,

• 7:31Speaker 02

  and there were no reports of gunshots or barking dogs.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Anxious neighbors were horrified as investigators and medical examiners made their way in and out of the home, looking for evidence and wheeling out body after body. Residents wondered if they too were in danger, but according to ABC 7 Chicago, police were not actively looking for anybody in the area because it had been more than 18 hours since they responded to the scene. The fact that police were not actively searching the neighborhood for a maniac on the loose eased some of the residents' minds, and it seemed that police had a possible suspect in mind. After family and friends of the victims were given the terrible news,

• 8:17Speaker 01

  the elementary school that Adriel and Diego attended offered counseling and had social workers available for students to speak with. And we just talked about, you know, what a horrific scene this was. Something that I don't know that we talk about a lot is, you know, okay, you live in a neighborhood and you find out that something like this happened, let's say, to a family in a house right there in your neighborhood. Man, what are you feeling as a resident? And this is on top of any grief that, you know, you would have for the family, the children, the dogs, all that.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  But then there's a secondary part of, well, this person's still out there. And who is going to be next? Cause my thought morph is you have a person who is able to kill a mom and a dad, children and three dogs. What is this person not capable of doing? Right to me, it seems like this is a person who has no limits, no boundaries. There, there's no line that they're not willing to cross. This is a very dangerous individual.

• 9:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think this whole situation was shocking for people in that area because we all hear from time to time that there's family violence where there's a murder suicide, where, where someone like a family annihilator takes their own life after taking the lives of their family. And that's bad enough. That's shocking enough, but here this is apparently someone that has done this to this family and gotten away. So I'm thinking that the people in that area were probably very uneasy and wanted to see this person apprehended so they were safe. By all appearances, Zoraida and Alberto lived a quiet life. No one can think of anyone who would want to harm the family, especially not the children

• 10:17Speaker 02

  or the dogs. The family seemed to keep to themselves and Zoraida and Alberto both worked a lot. Zoraida worked in quality control at a manufacturing plant and Alberto worked for a spirits distributor. It was easy for neighbors to tell what their work schedules were because they never missed their shifts. They were reliable and predictable, quiet, and by all accounts, just a normal family. But very early on, investigators were confident these murders had been personal to someone. Chris Byrne, Romeo Ville's deputy chief of police told ABC seven Chicago, we were able to determine that this was not a random incident.

• 10:54Speaker 01

  And we talked about, you know, how anxious and worried that residents would be right after a situation like this. I wonder how much of what comes out from police helps kind of calm the residents, right? They're not actively searching for someone in that neighborhood. Well, it, my first thought is, why not? Why are you not doing that? But then it almost seems as though that helped ease the minds of some of the residents like, okay, they don't believe they're here. And then you hear police say they believe this was personal. So, you know,

• 11:38Speaker 01

  that kind of makes you think, well, this is not just a serial killer, or, you know, someone selecting victims at random. Do I, as a neighbor or resident, have a little bit less to worry about? I mean, just, you know, all of these things kind of play in to the, to the fears that people have.

• 11:59Speaker 02

  And just me, if, if this happened in my neighborhood, you know, even if it wasn't right next door, even if it was down the street away, I'd be nervous. I'd be double checking my doors at night, checking my security cameras, and I'd just be taking an extra level of precaution, even if police thought that this was, you know, somehow focused on that family and that the rest of the neighborhood wasn't in danger.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm right with you. I don't know if I'd be able to sleep. I might be sitting in a chair with a shotgun aimed at the front door. I mean, to me, this would be very nerve wracking. Like, I have to protect my family. While police believe the murders were personal, some who knew the family wondered if this could have been a case of mistaken identity. The family had just moved into that home in the 500 block of Concord Avenue in April, just a few months early. If there was some kind of old grudge, maybe the person responsible didn't realize that their actual target had moved out. Maybe the previous Owners decided to move from the house because they felt like they were in danger.

• 13:09Speaker 01

  Most of the online and apparently even local speculation trended toward a hit involving a cartel. This is likely due to the Goshen murders. Earlier the same year, six people were shot to death in the middle of the night in Goshen, California. The shocking Goshen homicides involving victims as young as 10 months old did turn out to be gang related. The perpetrators were members of the Norteños gang and some of the victims were members of the Ceranos, a rival gang. Surveillance cameras captured 16-year-old Alyssa Perez carrying her son, 10-month-old

• 13:51Speaker 01

  Nicholas, as she ran to the locked gate in the driveway. She placed him over the fence before she hopped over it, picked him up and ran into the darkness. Moments later, two men were in pursuit. They caught up to her quickly. In that case, it was clearly about sending a message, not eliminating witnesses. There was no threat from a 10-month-old baby. In no way, the baby would have been a useful witness in any way in identifying the killers. The cruelty of killing a 10-month-old was solely to prove that no one was safe if they crossed the line.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  The shocking video obviously made the rounds online and stuck in people's minds.

• 14:37Speaker 02

  While residents in the online community were speculating, police were digging into the lives of the victims and it didn't take long for authorities to uncover an affair leading to a potential suspect. As we've unfortunately seen so many times, affairs easily can turn deadly. Police found that Zareda had been romantically involved with a coworker, 31-year-old Nathaniel Huey Jr. The relationship had been ongoing for at least a year. Nathaniel Huey ran an illegitimate security company called Black Bear Security. It may have been a licensed business at one time, but at the time of the murders, he had no proper license for the company. Even more importantly, this should not have been his choice of career because he was not

• 15:18Speaker 02

  legally allowed to own or possess firearms due to his extensive criminal history. He had multiple DUIs and at least one charge of battery on his record. He had been barred from owning weapons since 2017. As we'll discuss a bit later, Nathaniel had no trouble finding guns.

• 15:36Speaker 01

  Police discovered that Alberto was aware that Zareda had an affair with Nathaniel at some point. He was so angry when he found out that he slashed Nathaniel's tires. Investigators wondered whether this could have been a motive for the murders. Just after 2:00 PM on Monday, the day after the bodies were found, investigators spoke to Nathaniel Huey Jr. at the warehouse he and Zareda both worked at in Glendale Heights. He seemed sort of cooperative, answering their questions and even admitting to the affair with Zareda, but he denied any involvement in the murders and refused to allow any searches, including any search of his car or his phone.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  With no search warrant, investigators left empty handed, but due to lack of cooperation from Nathaniel Huey Jr., they felt that they were on to something. Both he and his fiance, 50-year-old Irma Linda Palomo, claimed that they had been asleep at her home the night of the murders. Unlike Nathaniel, Irma Linda had no known criminal history.

• 16:45Speaker 02

  The one thing we see in a lot of cases like this, whether it's a murder case or a missing persons case, police have to dig into a person's life, into their background, into their inner circle to look for anything that could potentially lead to a motive. Their secrets often come to the surface and unfortunately, you know, some of that's not all pleasant stuff. In this case, Zareda was having an affair, but it led to a potential suspect. And anytime you have a, like a love triangle, a spouse who's angry about an affair, it makes for a dangerous situation. So I think police were fortunate to find this information.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Well, and there's no doubt that Alberto knew about the affair, right? He slashed Nathaniel's tires at one point. So yeah, I mean, that's a a detail that investigators are going to focus in on and a person, right? In Nathaniel that they have to focus in on.

• 17:48Speaker 02

  Just two hours after investigators first questioned Nathaniel, he apparently handed off multiple weapons right in the parking lot of the warehouse. The exchange was captured on surveillance cameras there. According to ABC seven Chicago, whoever met with him, received an AR 15 style rifle, a Glock pistol, a duffel bag that weighed 25 to 30 pounds and other items. This person hasn't been publicly identified or charged in relation to the murders. Investigators know exactly who this person is and they were very cooperative. According to them, it seemed like Nathaniel was under the influence of cocaine. The witness described Huey as very sweaty and added, his eyes were bloodshot and he was very paranoid.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  The man later met up with Irma Linda, who he said is the one who asked him for the favor in the first place, picking up the guns and he put the guns and other items in the trunk of her car. These items would later be recovered by investigators performing a search of Irma Linda's belongings about two weeks after the murders. Inside the duffel bag were zip ties, over 100 rounds of various types of ammunition, a knife and multiple pairs of gloves. It painted a shocking picture of what had been planned for the victims and ultimately what they must have gone through in their final moments.

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• 20:34Speaker 01

  Irma Linda's family reported her missing because she never came back home and her phone started going straight to voicemail. Her Find My Phone app was also deactivated. They were afraid that Nathaniel was holding her against her will and had kidnapped her or that she had already been harmed. John Paul Ivec, an attorney in Chicago, representing the Palomo family, told CBS News Chicago that Irma Linda was obviously upset after the murders. And before she left with Nathaniel, she said some concerning things that indicated she may not be coming back home.

• 21:13Speaker 01

  She was saying things such as, "Tell everyone I love them and take care of my grandbabies." So more of I think we, you know, we have to break some of this down. You know, obviously the information about Nathaniel Huey is extremely concerning, has to be, right, to investigators. I mean, this guy has a number of weapons and he's not supposed to possess any weapons. Couple that with. The fact that they know he was having an affair with Zoraida and these exchanges of the guns. I mean, how in the world is he not at the top of the list for police?

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Right? He is square on their radar.

• 22:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it really feels like the puzzle pieces are starting to slide into place here. And, you know, a picture is starting to emerge about what may have happened and who's responsible.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  And then we have another family or Melinda's family worried about her because they're not able to get in touch with her and they're afraid that Nathaniel might have done something bad to her.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  Well, it's hard to blame them for that because if he's ultimately responsible for these, the murder of these, this family and even their pets, is there anything he wouldn't do? So I, I don't blame her family at all for being worried.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  No, like I said earlier, right? If you can cross that line, what is it that you would be unwilling to do? Cause I'm, in my mind, I'm thinking nothing. What's, what's worse than the scene that we described? So I think this is a person who's capable of anything.

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Police needed to find the couple quickly for multiple reasons. First, because Irma Linda might be in danger. The second reason was because both of them may have been involved in the murders. And if so, they were extremely dangerous. They knew that the couple had left in Nathaniel's black GMC Yukon. Authorities in Katusa, Oklahoma, more than 600 miles away from Romeoville, were notified of the couple's presence after a flock camera flagged the couple's license plate because it was related to a potential murder suspect and a missing person. Flock cameras are very controversial and are becoming harder and harder to avoid as you go about your daily drives. For police, they're a valuable tool in helping them track down people who might otherwise get away.

• 23:40Speaker 01

  And more of I, I think I've said it before, at least to you. I don't know if I've said it on the podcast, but I love watching on YouTube, police videos, right? The body cam videos.

• 23:53Speaker 01

  I just find them fascinating, interesting. And I was watching one the other day where a highway state patrolman, and I forget what state it was, they stopped someone because they thought they were carrying drugs. And it turned out they had a lot of drugs in the trunk of this car. But the trooper was describing to the individual every place they had been across the country. And they knew it at the moment they made this stop. And it was because of these types of cameras, I think. He knew exactly what time he left a certain state,

• 24:34Speaker 01

  you know, where he was at this time. So I mean, when you say that's a valuable tool for law enforcement, it is. But I get it. Why it's also a little bit controversial.

• 24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I watched the same kind of police videos and I watched one not too long ago where a police officer was shot and left on the side of the road. And the person escaped, and they were able to use these flock cameras to track them to a hideout where they were holding off trying to be taken into custody. And if it wasn't for those flock cameras, they wouldn't have found them. So I think they definitely serve a purpose for police and can help apprehend a lot of bad people.

• 25:16Speaker 01

  Well, you and I talk about technology all the time. A lot of it's related to DNA and solving cases. But I still keep thinking, how are people getting away with anything these days? Given the technology that's out there, you know, the DNA, but also just the surveillance cameras in general, but also like flock cameras and things like that. It just, the people do get away with stuff, but it seems like it would be harder and harder every year as technology advances.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  And that's good. We don't want the bad guys to get away.

• 25:52Speaker 01

  So, police surveilled the couple in the Yukon with caution. The two were followed to a local Walmart where security cameras captured them shopping like any other normal couple. They seemed carefree. And according to at least one officer and based on surveillance cameras in the store, it was clear Irma Linda was not being held against her will. They even split up while they were in the store with Irma Linda shopping for cosmetics by herself. There was no urgency in her movements, no looking around to see if there were any good escape routes. She didn't try to get help. As the couple walked out of the store, they were even laughing together.

• 26:35Speaker 02

  As the couple left the Walmart, Katusa officers initiated a traffic stop, but Nathaniel immediately took off. Officers followed and ended up engaged in a high-speed pursuit on the highway. Once again, you can find a video of this on YouTube and you can tell just how frantic the situation was. They made it only three miles before the SUV lost control and crashed into a center divider. Almost immediately after the crash, the vehicle caught on fire. One report notes that Nathaniel may have intentionally started the fire. As police approached the vehicle, officers heard what sounded like gunshots. They used their batons to break out the driver's window and attempt to rescue the couple. Nathaniel Huey Jr. was dead in the driver's seat. It wasn't the crash that had killed him.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  He had suffered two gunshot wounds to his head. The first, under his chin, didn't kill him. The second shot was fatal. Irma Linda Palomo, in the passenger seat, had also been shot in the head and was unconscious, but she was still breathing. She was rushed to the hospital in critical condition, but it was too late. She was pronounced dead at the hospital despite the efforts of medical professionals. Irma Linda's death was officially ruled a homicide and Nathaniel's a suicide.

• 27:48Speaker 01

  So we've got a lot going on here and we have more people dead. But I want to go back to, you know, this thought. And I think concerned by Irma Linda's family that maybe Nathaniel had kidnapped her, had done something to her. I think the, the video at Walmart went a long way to kind of disproving that. I mean, just from the description, you know, they're, they're shopping together, but then they split up. She's shopping for cosmetics. She doesn't try to run or get help. And then they're seen laughing, right? As they leave the store. It doesn't paint the picture of someone who was being held against their will.

• 28:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it seems like it opens up other possibilities, you know? Is she with him in this other city 600 miles from their home? Because she wants to get away too, because she's involved. Or, you know, did he give her some story about why they need to go there? For police, they have to do some more investigating to figure out what's going on here.

• 28:56Speaker 01

  Well, and, and that's going to be harder now, right? Given the state of what happened. Nathaniel is dead. Irma Linda is dead, so they're not going to be able to question. And no doubt, this was not the outcome that anyone wanted. They believed that the couple held the answers to the investigation of a murdered family. But now they too were dead. Police had little doubt that Nathaniel was involved in the murders. But they had to figure out if Irma Linda was an innocent victim of his as well. Or if she too was involved in the murders. It turns out Irma Linda had a much larger role in the murders than anyone had guessed.

• 29:41Speaker 01

  Apparently she had actually masterminded the entire thing after learning that her fiance Nathaniel had been cheating on her. And she put a plan into motion to get Nathaniel to murder his lover and her family. And it seems Nathaniel. Nathaniel had no idea Irma Linda was behind it all. This is the part of the story that sounds like fiction. It sounds like it was made up for, you know, some kind of movie. That the man who shot four people and three dogs to death was blindsided and manipulated by the real planner of the crime. But it is what seems to have happened here.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  And interestingly, it does involve the cartel like we talked about earlier, or at least that's what Nathaniel was led to believe.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  When Irma Linda found out that Nathaniel had been seeing Zoraida behind her back, she created multiple profiles on social media and filled them out to look like they belonged to important gang members. Then she messaged both Nathaniel and Zoraida and threatened them using actual details from their lives and specifically about the affair to make it clear that the threats were serious. Over the course of a year, Irma Linda continued to talk to Nathaniel with these fake accounts. According to People Magazine, one police report stated that Nathaniel fully believed the information being fed to him by Irma Linda was true, but did not know Irma Linda was the person he was communicating with. Nathaniel thought he was talking to someone from a Mexican drug cartel.

• 31:17Speaker 02

  The same police report detailed that communications with Nathaniel eventually led Irma Linda to convince Nathaniel he was under constant surveillance by the organization. By September 14th, Nathaniel believed that Zoraida was a mole sent to attack him.

• 31:33Speaker 01

  Irma Linda pretending to be a dangerous criminal named Turtle instructed Nathaniel to kill Zoraida and her family and to stage the scene and make it look like the murders were related to a burglar. She also helped him plan the entire massacre and how to try and get away with the crime. At the same time, she was messaging Zoraida and even sent her one handwritten letter warning her to stay away from Nathaniel for her own good, claiming he was a gang member and that he was dangerous. On one hand, it seems that Irma Linda just wanted to keep Nathaniel and Zoraida apart. But then on the other hand, she clearly had his devious plan in mind that wound up having

• 32:18Speaker 01

  deadly consequences for everyone involved. And more of this revelation about Irma Linda. I mean, it is so wild. You know, we say it quite often, but you can't make some of this stuff up. And I think some of these, if you tried to write them into a script, people might laugh at you saying, oh, my gosh, that's, that's so far fetched. That would never happen in real life. But this really did happen.

• 32:48Speaker 02

  I think this is one of those cases. That's a reminder that not everything is always black and white. Not everything is always as it seems in an investigation. And it seems like the more police looked, the more shocking details would emerge.

• 33:04Speaker 01

  Also, if you're pretending to be a dangerous criminal, Turtle seems like a strange name. I'm just throwing that out there. I know, you know, a lot of people have nicknames that don't really seem to match, but I don't know, gang member named Turtle just seemed a little odd to me.

• 33:24Speaker 02

  It's clear that Irma Linda was not just trying to scare Nathaniel into leaving Zoraida, and he snapped and killed her entire family. Irma Linda was very aware that the plan was to kill Zoraida. She orchestrated it at every turn. Still pretending to be Turtle, the gang member, she helped Nathaniel with every little detail. The two figured out the exact floor plan of the home, discussed the best way to get in and out of the house undetected, and researched the neighborhood to find security cameras they would need to avoid, and also check for any empty houses. As it turned out, no one was living in the home behind Zoraida and Alberto at the time of the murders.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Now, here's one thing I have to talk about, right? So these two are engaged to be married, which you would think means they're spending quite a bit of time together, right? Nathaniel and Irma Linda. So in my mind,

• 34:18Speaker 01

  I'm just trying to picture these quote unquote fake conversations. Are they in the same house, right? At the time, some of this is happening. He's on his computer, she's on her computer. They don't know what each other is doing. He obviously has no idea that she is, she is sending him messages as turtle. I mean, even if they're not in the same house at the time it's happening. It's still just, just so wild to me.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's definitely a bizarre part of this case, no doubt.

• 34:54Speaker 01

  I, I think what can't be overstated is the lengths that Irma Linda went to, to orchestrate this entire thing. I mean, it was very involved and she spent a lot of time doing it. I mean, this wasn't something that materialized in a week or two. Right? This was a, a long-term plan.

• 35:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was over the better part of a year. And, you know, at any time, she could have come to her senses and said, okay, I can't do this. This is wrong. I'm going to get in trouble. Let me just stop and end this, but she never did. It just kept going and going until it led to the murders.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  And we often see that, right? People have an idea, it's not a good idea. And at so many different points, they could decide, oh my gosh, what am I doing? I have to stop this. They just don't, right? They keep on until something really bad happens. And obviously we know in this case, a lot of really bad things happen. Now, this next part of the case is a bit confusing. And it really seems to fly in the face of the theory that Irma Linda had somehow anonymously, posing as some shady cartel figure convinced Nathaniel to do all of this.

• 36:21Speaker 01

  That's because investigators were able to determine that Irma Linda drove Nathaniel in her Chevy Impala to the neighborhood just after three in the morning and waited in the car for him to slaughter an entire family as they slept.

• 36:38Speaker 01

  Surveillance cameras in the area captured Nathaniel getting in and out of the car on the passenger side at around 3:17 a.m., making it clear that there was someone else driving the car. Authorities were able to track the car all the way back to Irma Linda's house, nearly an hour away. So it's pretty clear that she was the getaway driver and that she knew what was going on. What other reason could she have thought there was for that late night drive? So that kind of creates sort of a conflict. How was she driving him there and then waiting outside of the home while the murders happened? If Nathaniel didn't

• 37:20Speaker 01

  know she was part of the plan? And to me, this is just another twist. Right in the story, investigators believe that Irma Linda masterminded this whole thing, but did so in a way where she was duping Nathaniel, right? By pretending to be this cartel figure. But how does that work if she's the getaway driver, driving him there and then driving him back? How is she doing that if she's not supposed to be involved, right? She's obviously involved. Nathaniel has to know she's involved in that scenario.

• 37:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, it kind of, you know, makes the whole theory of her being the mastermind and pulling the wool over Nathaniel's eyes. It kind of makes that less likely unless we believe that Nathaniel told her he needed to go there for some reason and he had something to do there. But it just, it seems kind of flimsy. It seems like there's some kind of involvement on her part as a getaway driver, that there'd have to be some kind of knowledge of what's going on there.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  But this goes back to, you know, what I talked about earlier, which is they're both dead. So police can't question them. So there are going to be holes, right? That authorities might not be able to fill in because they can't talk to the people involved and get any answers. In total, Nathaniel shot the family and their dogs 20 times. Though the murder weapon was never recovered, investigators were able to determine that he used a nine millimeter pistol. The Glock recovered from Irma Linda's trunk was not the murder weapon. Neither was the gun he used to shoot Irma Linda and take his own

• 39:16Speaker 01

  life after the crash. Investigators were able to determine that the sound from Nathaniel breaking in and killing the first two dogs in the kitchen was enough to make Alberto come out of his room to see what was going on. He was shot multiple times as he ran back toward the bedrooms. Nathaniel blindly fired, shooting Zarada through the bedroom door at one point before actually going into the room and shooting the children in the third doll. Knowing the shots weren't precise and methodical makes it even more unbelievable that no one heard anything during the murders.

• 39:55Speaker 02

  Nathaniel did stage the scene to look like a burglary, but forgot to take the victim's cell phones. This is how investigators were so quickly able to find out about the affair. They just had to look in Zarada's phone. Before fleeing, Nathaniel spray painted the walls, apparently to make it look like young teens had committed the murders. After the murders, he reportedly told his mother what he had done. There wasn't really time for her to do anything about it because he took off with Irma Linda and almost immediately ended up in that high-speed chase. The pursuit was short. There was no time for it to air live on the news and have anyone call in and report that they recognized the car or knew who was inside of it. Even then, it didn't seem like Nathaniel was willing

• 40:38Speaker 02

  to try any kind of negotiation or ask for any kind of forgiveness. Pretty much as soon as he told his mom, he took off with Irma Linda and the two were dead soon after.

• 40:49Speaker 01

  And it to me more seems as though Nathaniel maybe had it in his mind that if he were caught or about to be caught, if he was stopped or chased, he wasn't going to give himself up and he wasn't going to go to jail. Now, he could have decided that in the moment, but it to me almost seems like maybe he had that in his mind ahead of time.

• 41:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, we don't know what kind of plan they had, or perhaps some kind of agreement that if things went sideways, they would take off together. You know, that's one of the things we just don't know because they both died.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  Irma Linda's family was completely shocked to learn of her involvement in the murders. From their perspective, not knowing what Irma Linda knew, everything was fine until Nathaniel showed up and then Irma Linda seemed really upset and said some things that sounded oddly fine. And then they were gone. It mostly seemed like Nathaniel had done something to upset her. Maybe they were having some problems in their relationship. They never imagined that the murders Irma Linda spearheaded were catching up to her. According to NBC Chicago, they released a statement through their attorney, which read that they wanted to extend their

• 42:08Speaker 01

  extreme condolences to the Roland Bartolome family and loved ones. The statement also clarified that the family had no previous knowledge of the information being disclosed.

• 42:21Speaker 02

  So it's this family, you have to feel bad for them as well because they initially thought that Irma Linda was in danger and maybe had been kidnapped. And suddenly they faced the fact that, no, she's, she wasn't in danger. She actually masterminded this attack on this family. And, you know, this is a woman that's a mother and grandmother, yet she was cold enough to help end the lives of a family, including young children. So that had to be a real shock to her family to know this is the true person that Irma Linda was.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  But it also, I think, does and probably did shed some light, right, for the family on some of those cryptic things that she said. That seemed very final, right? Take care of my grandbabies and some of those statements. Well, now they they probably know why she said those things.

• 43:21Speaker 02

  On the surface, this case seems like a tale as old as time. A jealous or spurned lover seeks revenge against her rival. But the revenge in this case was extreme, going as far as to target that rival's young children and even her pets. Questions remain. Did Irma Linda choose to be part of a murder-suicide rather than face the consequences of her action? Or did Nathaniel suddenly kill her with no warning? Is it possible that he finally figured out that she had tricked him into committing the murders and killed her in a moment of rage? At least one officer believed that Nathaniel died without ever realizing that Irma Linda was a notorious and fictitious gang member that convinced him to kill. We'll never know what they said to each other in their final moments.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  But when they were at Walmart, everything seemed fine. Perhaps just before they crashed, Irma Linda admitted to Nathaniel that she was the one who had manipulated him.

• 44:13Speaker 01

  There is another fascinating possibility. And that's that Irma Linda was planning to continue her revenge on Nathaniel by letting him get caught for the murders. Maybe she thought she'd get away with murdering Nathaniel's lover and also have the satisfaction of seeing him rot in prison for it. It seems like a foolish plan because she left such a trail of evidence, electronic messages, that kind of stuff. And her car was captured near the crime scene on the night of the murders. But as we always mentioned, sometimes the people who commit these crimes often think they have this ingenious plan, when they really don't. They make mistakes.

• 44:58Speaker 01

  And Irma Linda clearly made some.

• 45:01Speaker 02

  It's not clear why Nathaniel and Irma Linda chose Oklahoma to flee to. They also left behind family. Both had children. While Nathaniel hadn't seen his children in over a year, family seemed very important to Irma Linda. Her daughter Christina Espinoza told the Daily Mail, "I honestly feel she left to protect her family." She called Nathaniel "a very dangerous man and a huge manipulator", and also noted that he had changed over the past few months and started becoming suspicious and pushing everyone away.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  In the end, the investigation found that only Irma Linda and Nathaniel were responsible for the murders. No gang members, no organized crime, nothing. After their deaths, the case was officially closed. "There would be no justice for the murdered family", Brant Romadka, Romeo Ville's Chief of Police, told ABC 7 Chicago. Although finalized, the finality of this case unfortunately does not mean closure for so many continuing to grieve. The fact that everyone, even the suspects in this case, ended up dead really demonstrates just how senseless this all was.

• 46:15Speaker 01

  Whatever Irma Linda may have gained from this, it was short-lived. Now, her family too is dealing with the loss. Some people online seem to have had sympathy for Irma Linda, thinking that she must have been deeply hurt and it caused her to go down this road. Others have no pity at all for her and think that she's just as guilty as Nathaniel, even though she didn't pull the trigger.

• 46:41Speaker 02

  Some people to this day doubt the entire premise of Nathaniel really not knowing who was directing him, since it seems clear that Irma Linda went to the scene with him and dropped him off while she circled the block. Some people believe that Nathaniel and Irma Linda came up with the fake anonymous cartel threat together as a potential defense, saying that they felt their lives were in danger. Because as the story went, Nathaniel supposedly didn't know who was forcing him to do this. Yet he's in Irma in his car outside the crime scene and he's getting out of the passenger's side while someone else drives. If it wasn't Irma Linda driving, then who was it? It's one of the frustrating parts of this case that there will never likely be full answers and there will never be justice.

• 47:25Speaker 02

  This is truly a case where there's no good news anywhere to be found.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  And so as we wrap up this case more, I think that last sentence is definitely true, right? There's no good news to be found and those are tough. It's also tough when the people involved who are thought to be involved die before they can be questioned by police because we are left with a number of questions. But I want to focus in on this whole story of Irma Linda's ruse and directing Nathaniel by pretending to be a cartel member.

• 48:14Speaker 01

  I just think that kind of crumbles when it's her car that is used to drop Nathaniel off. It circles around the block. It picks him up after the murders and drives back home. It's just to me kind of hard to believe that she's not at the wheel. And therefore this whole cartel premise is, as you said, just kind of a scheme to be used later in case of emergency, right? If they're caught or they're found out, this might be something they can use to justify what they did.

• 48:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's speculation on our part, but if police determine they were involved, or at least Nathaniel is involved, then he has this cover story of this mystery person that was threatening him and his family. And that's why he had to do it. So maybe he thought he would get off altogether or his punishment wouldn't be as harsh. So maybe this was really a plan they had concocted to use this as a Hail Mary plan that they could use later on to get off on a lesser charge or whatever.

• 49:35Speaker 01

  I don't know, it does seem like the plot of a Coen Brothers movie to me, right? It seems like a Fargo or, you know, one of these movies where there's a bumbling plan and it just unravels as the movie goes on. But there's no doubt that this is a wild, wild, crazy case. But at the heart of it, and I think the, the thing that, you know, we don't want to lose sight of is, you know, this family was massacred. Husband, a wife, a mom, a dad, children, three dogs. I mean, this was a very, very brutal set of murders.

• 50:21Speaker 01

  And for what? You know, I, I do keep, you know, kind of coming back to that in my mind because Irma Linda was jealous. She was upset that Nathaniel was having an affair. I mean, you just, it just all seemed so tragic and senseless. I mean, that's another word, right? Senseless.

• 50:42Speaker 02

  And Nathaniel clearly was a cold-blooded murderer. You're pulling the trigger over and over again, killing each member of the family, their dogs. You know, nothing is excusing that, but if it was true, what he believed to be true, you know, what's reported that he was felt threatened, that his family would be harmed. Why not go to the police? Why go through with this plan and murder, you know, an entire family? It just doesn't make sense. And as we talked about, if Irma Linda was involved, the way police think she was, then she's just as guilty as him, even if she didn't pull the trigger. And, you know, she had every chance to stop this plan over a year of planning this and

• 51:27Speaker 02

  just never put on the brakes and it's very unfortunate.

• 51:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree with you. They're they're both equally guilty, culpable, whatever, you know, whatever word you want to use. I just, at the end of the day, I'm not really buying the whole cartel story. I'm just, I'm just not. But then I also can't figure out, you know, the reason behind the murders, other than Irma Linda being upset, finding out about the affair, and Nathaniel possibly thinking, or maybe even Irma Linda saying, you gotta get rid of them, for us to, you know, continue on, or something to that effect.

• 52:10Speaker 02

  At this point, at the end of this episode, I feel like we spent the last hour putting a puzzle together. And at the end, we discovered there's a piece or two missing out of the box. And I think that piece, I think that piece or two is the information that Nathaniel and Irma Linda would be able to provide if they were alive. But unfortunately, they're not. So we're never going to have a complete picture of what happened in this case.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, and that is a little frustrating, right? When there's a piece of the puzzle that you don't have, and you kind of now know you'll never have it. Okay, that can be frustrating and is in this case. But that's it for our episode on the Romeo Ville murders. As always, if you love the show, but haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, leave us a review or rating. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really goes a long way.

• 53:07Speaker 02

  If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. Just search for Criminology Podcast on your favorites. And you can check out our website, criminologypodcast.com, which has links to old episodes, news on the show and more. And if you want to join a Facebook discussion group about the podcast and the cases we cover, head over to Facebook and search for Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans.

• 53:31Speaker 01

  So that's it for another episode of Criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike.

• 53:41Speaker 02

  And Morph.

• 53:42Speaker 01

  We'll talk to you next week.

• 53:43Speaker 02

  Take care, everyone.