Missing and Murdered Scientists

Dating back to 2022, at least 11 scientists or people with high security clearance levels have gone missing or been murdered. This has caused speculation to run rampant and has fueled many different conspiracy theories online. Join Mike and Morf as they discuss the missing and murdered scientists. But it's not just the online community that has fueled speculation regarding these cases. The White House, top lawmakers, and even the President have commented on the cases. It's been announced that the FBI will officially begin looking into it. You can help support the show through Patreon. We'd love to connect with listeners on social media. We are available on the following platforms: Facebook - Facebook Discussion group - Instagram - Threads - X Formerly Twitter - Blue Sky - Twitch - Tik Tok Criminology is an Emash Digital production hosted by Mike Ferguson and Mike Morford.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Criminology is a true crime podcast that may contain discussion about violent or disturbing topics. Listener discretion is advised.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Hello everyone and welcome to episode 407 of the Criminology Podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson.

• 0:43Speaker 02

  And this is Mike Morford.

• 0:45Speaker 01

  Mr. Morford, how you doing, buddy?

• 0:47Speaker 02

  I'm doing pretty good, other than getting stuck in traffic on the way to record with you today, but other than that, it's Friday and I'm trying to stay positive. How you doing?

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm doing good. You were only an hour late. That's not too bad. Just an hour.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Fashionably.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Well, let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout outs. We had one new supporter and that was Mel Samper. So great new support. We really appreciate it.

• 1:10Speaker 02

  Thank you so much, Mel. That really helps out the show and for anyone else that would like to, you can support the show by going to patreon.com/criminology.

• 1:18Speaker 01

  And more, if you know, a lot of people, they ask, okay, what do you get on Patreon? And we do ad free. A lot of people like ad free episodes. So if you're, if you're in that mold, definitely check out Patreon.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Yeah. Skip the commercials.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  All right, buddy. It's time to jump into this week's case. And you know, every once in a while, we cover one that seems like a plot from a conspiracy movie or, you know, a novel, because the details are so strange and so unusual that they don't even really seem real. Well, this week, we're diving into one of those kinds of cases and it's one that's been making a lot of headlines lately and gathering steam as people realize something strange is going on. We're talking about the deaths and disappearances of 11 top US scientists dating back to 2022.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  And although some people may not think these cases are connected, the US government is at least looking into the possibility. White House Press Secretary Caroline Levitt has recently confirmed that federal agencies are looking into the 11 deaths and disappearances of scientific and administrative personnel. And President Trump recently told reporters that it was pretty serious stuff. It was three recent cases that really got people's attention and caused them to look back and see this pattern dating back to 2022. We're going to start with the three most recent cases and then move back to 2022 to discuss the other eight.

• 2:54Speaker 02

  The first case we'll be talking about is the case of Carl Grilmeyer. He worked for the California Institute of Technology's Infrared Processing and Analysis Center. He was a pretty big deal in the scientist community and made important discoveries like finding signs of water on another planet. The 67-year-old astrophysicist lived in Llano, a pretty remote part of Southern California. The homes there are far apart, and many are on unpaid roads in the desert. Aerial photos of his home make it look like it's in the middle of nowhere. This was by design because he wanted a good view of the night sky, and in the middle of the desert, there's very little light pollution. He was even able to build a home observatory there in rural Llano.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  So when Carl Grilmeyer was shot to death on his front porch on February 16, 2026, it definitely didn't seem like an accident. The first thing the setting brought to mind was that Grilmeyer had been deliberately targeted by someone, especially since he was killed on his porch at 6 o'clock in the morning. There was no burglary. It was as if someone had lured him outside just to kill him. But why?

• 4:01Speaker 01

  Investigators quickly arrested 29-year-old Freddie Snyder. Now, it's a bit unclear how they immediately linked him to Grill Mayor's death, as he was initially arrested for carjacking one of his own relatives and breaking into their home. But Snyder did have a pretty recent history of trespassing on Grill Mayor's property. Snyder was arrested on a weapons charge for having a loaded rifle in his car on December 20th, 2025. After Grill Mayor called to report the trespass, Snyder was released on his own recognizance just three days later, due to what was described in the New York Post as unnecessary prosecution.

• 4:45Speaker 01

  Despite the arrest, people have been treating this as mysterious because of what happened next.

• 4:50Speaker 02

  Less than two weeks after Carl Grummer's murder, Major General William Neil McCasland vanished from his home in Albuquerque, New Mexico. At around 10 a.m. on February 27, 2026, William McCasland spoke to a repairman at his home. Just over an hour later, the general's wife, Susan, left to go to a medical appointment. And by the time she got back at around noon, her husband was gone. However, his phone, which had been turned off, and his glasses were found inside the house. Investigators haven't recovered his wallet, a red backpack he was believed to be carrying, or his .38 caliber revolver and its leather holster. It was thought that perhaps he had gone outside close to his home, and searches were done.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  But unfortunately, infrared cameras searching for a heat source in the rocky terrain near his home were useless, because even though it was only late February, it was already too warm to tell a human being apart from the landscape. Burno Lolo Sheriff John Allen told CNN, "The mountain was just lit up like a candle. It's vast. It's a lot of square mileage. There's a lot of hidden areas. There's rocky areas. There's areas where people can get injured in."

• 6:02Speaker 01

  About 200 miles from his main residence in New Mexico, McCaslin also owned a home in Pagosa Springs, Colorado. Investigators searched that house and found a pair of hiking boots that had been missing from his home back in New Mexico. And they also found the long sleeve shirt that investigators believe he was wearing when his wife last saw him. They didn't find any sign of McCaslin himself. Now, this was certainly odd. The general had vanished from New Mexico without explanation. And now it seemed he may have wound up 200 miles away in his Colorado home before vanishing again. General McCaslin was formerly in charge

• 6:44Speaker 01

  of the Air Force Research Laboratory at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. His disappearance came at a very suspicious time. Just days earlier, President Trump announced that he would be releasing government files regarding UFOs and aliens. This, of course, led to the speculation that the general was targeted to prevent him from speaking out about any of the files. So there's a couple of things here more for me. One is that Wright-Patterson Air Force Base is in my hometown. It's the big Air Force base here. A lot of people work there. My wife actually teaches right next to the base.

• 7:25Speaker 01

  So most of her students are Air Force kids. They move in and out. They transfer in and out. It's kind of a unique situation.

• 7:37Speaker 02

  It's always interesting when we cover a case and it's got some kind of local connection to one of us.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, and for listeners as well, we hear that all the time. How a case that has elements that kind of hit close to home, it just, it hits a little differently to people. But the other big thing is this. And it's been in the news a lot, the releasing of some government files regarding UFOs and aliens. I mean, it's got a lot of people talking. I mean, obviously, people have been fascinated with UFOs for many, many decades. Generations, right, have been fascinated with UFOs. You know, it's Area 51, Roswell, New Mexico.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  There's just so much that people think the government knows that they're not telling us. So to think that, okay, maybe we're getting some information. That's got, that's got a lot of people jazzed.

• 8:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think anytime you introduce something like that into a case like this, it really adds some flair, some interesting details that people are going to debate back and forth. You maybe have the people that say, oh, this, this is just conspiracy nonsense, these UFO believers. But then to the true believers of that stuff, they're open to more possibilities. So there's probably a clash of outlooks on this case. For what it's worth, General McCaslin's wife, Susan, doesn't believe that his disappearance had anything to do with the release of files or with extraterrestrial life at all. She made a Facebook post stating, Neil does not have any special knowledge about the ET bodies

• 9:25Speaker 02

  and debris from the Roswell crash stored at Wright-Patt. Though at this point, with absolutely no sign of him, maybe the best hypothesis is that aliens beamed him up to the mothership. However, no sightings of a mothership hovering above the San Diego Mountains have been reported. General McCaslin had been retired for more than a decade and didn't hold any high level clearances any longer.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  And that's an interesting quote, right, that she put out on Facebook. No, her husband doesn't have any special knowledge about extraterrestrial bodies. But then she went on to say, okay, maybe the best hypothesis is that aliens beamed him up? I don't know, I just thought it was strange. And maybe that has to do with, you know, like you said, more of a lot of people throwing out conspiracy theory type stories. But the other big thing for me is, You know, this guy's been retired for more than 10 years. He doesn't hold any high level clearances, so it just seems so strange.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  And we're going to find that, you know, with a lot of these cases as we go along. And obviously, the big question is going to be, are any of these cases connected? Are they all connected? Or is this just a series of really strange events?

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think if he was still active and working on projects, you know, you might say, okay, he's being silenced because he has some information on some new equipment or some new technology and people don't want it to get out, something along those lines. But if he's been retired for some time, then to me, at least, it seems like it's a little less likely that something happened to him as a result of his work.

• 11:14Speaker 01

  Now, it doesn't mean that he doesn't know a lot of things, right? If there are really things related to extraterrestrials stored at Wright-Patt and he was in charge of that, okay, maybe he's got a lot of really sensitive knowledge, but it just seems strange that he's been retired for so long and now would want to be silenced. And it doesn't seem that investigators working on the general's case believe any foul play is involved. In fact, their initial public plea for information regarding McCaslin's whereabouts mentioned that authorities were concerned for his safety due to medical issues.

• 11:58Speaker 01

  Knowing this and the fact that his gun is missing, it certainly seems possible that McCaslin had a goal in mind and didn't want to be stopped or found. The information his wife Susan divulged when she called 911 to report him missing also lined up with a deliberate decision by her husband. He was, as stated by the Bernalillo County Sheriff's Office, experiencing health issues, including cognitive problems and short-term memory loss, which for someone used to being really quick and intelligent, can be incredibly distressing. He had reportedly recently expressed that if his body and mind continued to fail,

• 12:43Speaker 01

  he didn't want to live like that.

• 12:45Speaker 02

  So on the surface, General McCaslin's case possibly seems like one we see often. One where someone suffering from ill health decides to take matters into their own hands and possibly made the decision to take their own life. Despite this heartbreaking possibility, what happened next made a lot of people reconsider this outcome. Just weeks after Gromare was murdered and McCaslin disappeared, the body of Jason Thomas was pulled from Lake Quanapawat in Wakefield, Massachusetts. Thomas, a biologist and director at the pharmaceutical company Novartis, had been missing since December 2025. Investigators believe that he was in the lake the entire time he was missing, but freezing

• 13:27Speaker 02

  temperatures had turned the top of the lake into ice, preventing an earlier discovery. Thomas had no links to NASA or the military. He was a scientist that was working on experimental cancer treatments and drug discovery technology.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  In Jason Thomas's case, all signs point to a tragic suicide. At the time he was last seen, on the night of December 12, 2025, he was in pain. Both of his parents had recently died, and he was deeply grieving. The loss of his parents was sudden, and Jason took the deaths hard. He was an only child, so he was the sole person feeling the full weight of that loss. And even worse, he actually witnessed both of his parents' deaths, each within two hours of one another. After his mother passed away from complications of dementia while on hospice care, his father

• 14:22Speaker 01

  became so distraught while discussing plans for her funeral service that he had a heart attack and actually died in his son's arms just 90 minutes after his wife's passing. Thomas was facing his first Christmas without either of his parents, probably replaying both deaths over and over in his mind on a disturbing and unwanted loop. At about midnight on the 12th, Jason Thomas walked out of the house. His wife, Kristen, called him, but he didn't answer. His phone and wallet were on the counter in the bathroom, and his Apple Watch had been placed in the mailbox. A camera on North Avenue by Chestnut Street, close to the train tracks, captured Thomas

• 15:07Speaker 01

  walking near the tracks that night, but it lost sight of him. No cause of death has been publicly revealed.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  So even though it looks like Jason Thomas's death has a pretty clear explanation to a lot of people, others had spotted a pattern of three missing or dead scientists over just a few months. Immediately, commentary on social media turned towards something complicated. The main theory was that someone was trying to get rid of scientists and top-level officials with nuclear secrets. Online sleuths went to work, and they soon found that there were more cases of scientists who died or went missing under mysterious circumstances in recent years.

• 15:45Speaker 01

  So I think, Morf, before we go on to the, the older eight cases, I just kind of want to, you know, talk about these three. I think it's natural for people to, you know, look at things like this and, and kind of think, okay, what's going on here? Is this a conspiracy? But I think it's also very easy to take the opposite approach. Some people are going to look at this and say, all right, here's three people who were going through some things, and it's possible that they decided to, you know, end their lives. Now, the fact

• 16:28Speaker 01

  that they were scientists or military personnel, possibly with, you know, high-level clearance at some point in their careers, that's what people latch on to. And again, I'm not saying there's not something to it. What I am saying is that I think if you picked any profession, you could probably find, if you searched hard enough, three people in any profession who either went missing or died under a somewhat mysterious circumstance in a short period of time.

• 17:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's it's definitely a pattern, but it's also one that maybe can be explained by what you just mentioned, just everyday life events in in these lives that just led to the outcomes they led to. And, you know, it seems like at least in one of the cases, there's a, you know, clear cut case of depression. He had just experienced the loss of his parents. So that one is a little bit more, you know, possibly explained away. But the other two are a little bit different. One seems to be a scientist shot on his porch, no real motive established. And then you have this strange missing persons case where he vanishes from

• 17:53Speaker 02

  his home in New Mexico, but then they find indications he went to his other home in Colorado, only to disappear again. So that one's a little bit unusual. So in my mind, at least, you know, a couple of these cases so far are pretty odd.

• 18:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I think that's what has grabbed people, right? There are oddities around, you know, some of the cases. And then you factor in that they're all either scientists or, you know, high level military. You know, we didn't talk about Carl Grillmeyer a lot because there's just not a lot of information out there about him. But, you know, being shot on your porch at 6 o'clock in the morning is very strange. There's no, you know, burglary or theft inside the home. It's just like, somebody wanted this guy dead. Now, you

• 18:52Speaker 01

  did have this Freddie Snyder guy who had a recent history of trespassing on his property. It could be something as simple as that. This guy was upset because Carl had called, you know, in on him for trespassing. But we don't know. Losing weight on your own can feel like a fight you keep losing. Weight loss by Hers offers access to the FDA-approved Wegovy pill and the Wegovy pen. Wegovy is the first-ever GLP-1 weight loss medication available in a pill, and it also comes as a pen, so you've got options. With Wegovy, you can lose up to 20% of your body weight. People lost an average of 14% body weight at 64 weeks

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  So now, as we kind of transition to some of the older cases, the first of these was 34-year-old Amy Eskridge. On June 11, 2022, she was found dead in Huntsville, Alabama. She had suffered one bullet wound to the head. Authorities determined that she had taken her own life. But many people wonder if there's something more at play here. Amy Eskridge was a scientist who was working on anti-gravity and exotic propulsion technology. She co-founded the Institute for Exotic Science in Alabama. According to MSN.com, during an interview in 2020,

• 21:13Speaker 01

  Eskridge said that one of the plus sides of being a public-facing persona to disclose anti-gravity Gravity technology was that if you stick your neck out in public, at least someone notices if your head gets chopped off. She seemed very concerned that someone was after her. Just two years before her death, she said, I'm scared. I'm tired. I need to disclose soon, man. I need to publish soon because it's like escalating. She described being harassed and believed someone had actually been inside her home, going through her underwear and her dresser. Now, whether this was truly happening hasn't been confirmed, but according to the

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Atlantic, Amy Eskridge claimed to have a time traveling friend. So based on that detail, some people have questioned Amy's mental health.

• 22:09Speaker 02

  No matter what, before her death, Amy Eskridge definitely seemed to sense that she was in some kind of danger and she was very vocal about it. Anti-gravity technology, which she was focusing on, would have had huge applications in multiple important fields. That warp speed you see on space shows would be much closer to being possible in reality. Gigantic and heavy objects could easily and quickly be moved. Aircraft would be able to silently hover. Many people believe that UFOs work with some kind of anti-gravity propulsion technology. Military weapons and vehicles would be changed forever. This technology has long been a fascination in science fiction, but everything could change if someone was able to actually figure out

• 22:51Speaker 02

  how it worked, how to apply it to our world. Amy Eskridge's father, Richard, was once a propulsion engineer at NASA, and he co-founded the Institute for Exotic Science with his daughter, and the pair worked on projects together. He doesn't seem to believe that there's anything suspicious about Amy's death or the other cases. He told News Nation Now, scientists die also, just like other people.

• 23:17Speaker 01

  On July 30th, 2023, just over a year after Amy died, 59-year-old Michael David Hicks passed away at his home in Sunland, California. Hicks had worked at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory for 24 years. He retired the year before his death, but his work was very prolific. He had published more than 80 research papers. He did important work in the space field, helping to track asteroids, and had been part of NASA's 1998 Deep Space One mission, a flyby of an asteroid. He was technically involved with defense because he worked on NASA's DART mission, which was trying to determine whether asteroids plummeting to Earth could

• 24:02Speaker 01

  be redirected, kind of like in the movies Armageddon and Deep Impact. When Hicks passed, his cause of death was not immediately released to the public, which created rampant speculation. However, according to Men's Journal, Hicks' cause of death is listed as arteriosclerotic cardiovascular disease with a contributing factor of morbid obesity. Many articles have not been updated with the information that his cause of death is known, and the photo of him commonly used makes him look young and fit. Both of these things make Hicks' death seem sudden and suspicious until you really dig into it. So his death, unlike some of

• 24:47Speaker 01

  the others, may be a little less mysterious.

• 24:51Speaker 02

  On July 4th, 2024, almost a year after Michael David Hicks died, 61-year-old Frank Maywald passed away in Los Angeles. His cause of death wasn't publicly released, and there were virtually no other details available about his passing. He had worked in NASA's JPL for 25 years and had been the recipient of various awards. At the time of his death, he was working on technology to scan planets and detect life. No cause of death was released, but that didn't stop people from speculating that he was one of several high-profile scientists that fit this pattern. If foul play was suspected, it seems likely his cause of death would have been made public. However, no autopsy was performed, so something could have been

• 25:34Speaker 02

  missed. There are those who believe that details are being withheld as part of the conspiracy, or because his family members don't want to get swept up in the ongoing danger of whatever's going on.

• 25:45Speaker 01

  On May 8, 2025, 78-year-old Anthony Chavez disappeared from his home in New Mexico. His car was still in the driveway, locked as it always was. His keys, wallet, cigarettes, phone, and all of his personal belongings were found inside his home. Before retiring in 2017, Chavez worked as a technician at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. There are no further details about Chavez or his death, but after he vanished, the deaths and disappearances of scientists began to occur more frequently. So not a lot of information at all about Chavez, but, you know, he did work at Los

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Alamos. And I think on its own, okay, there's probably not a lot here, but people have, you know, kind of lumped him in or his death in with all of these others involving scientists, further, you know, cementing in some people's minds that there's just a real pattern here.

• 26:53Speaker 02

  Just after 9:00 a.m. on June 22, 2025, 60-year-old Monica Jacinto Reza disappeared from a hiking trail near Mount Waterman in the Angeles National Forest. Reza worked as an aerospace engineer and materials processor for Aerojet Rocketdyne, as well as NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. She helped develop a new nickel-based material that is used in rocket engines and missiles, and she was a former coworker of Major General McCaslin. He was actually heading up the project when Reza helped develop that new metal, described as a super alloy. The project was government-funded. Monica Reza was last seen just 30 feet behind the two friends she was hiking with that day.

• 27:38Speaker 02

  They turned back to look at her, and she waved at them in good spirits and smiling. Then suddenly, she just wasn't there anymore. They didn't see or hear anything unusual, no screams, nothing.

• 27:49Speaker 01

  The area that Reza disappeared from does have a lot of very difficult terrain. It's possible that she tripped or fell and kind of rolled downhill. But it seems odd that her friends didn't hear or see anything. And whatever happened to her would have had to prevent her from moving around or even crying out for help. If she just fell and couldn't get up, she should have been able to yell. She was also wearing a backpack with water in it. So she would not have immediately succumbed to dehydration. It's possible that she hit her head and lost consciousness or even suffered a medical emergency on the trail.

• 28:29Speaker 01

  Sure, it's rare, but sudden tragic events do happen and hiking can be taxing and dangerous.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Some people are suspicious of the friends Monica was hiking with since they let her fall behind them, but they were experienced hikers and 30 feet isn't that far apart. For her friends to be responsible for her disappearance, two people would need a strong enough motive to actually act on it and then concoct a story that they told police. And there's no reason they couldn't have just pretended she fell on her own or something like that. Searches for Monica Reza failed to turn up anything. And if she vanished the way her friends say she did, it's certainly an odd disappearance.

• 29:07Speaker 01

  And Morf, I have to be honest, you know, some of the, the cases that we've talked about so far, I don't really see where there's a lot of real kind of meat on the bone as far as, you know, a conspiracy theory goes. I think this one though, people really latch on to. You know, first you, you have the connection between General McCaslin and Monica Reza. That's one part of it. And then the other part is, you know, they're just out hiking. She's not alone. She's with other people. She's really not that far behind.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  And then all of a sudden just disappears and they couldn't find her. Nobody's found her. That does seem pretty strange. They didn't hear anything.

• 30:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, you would think that there'd be like a scream or maybe her, the sound of her falling, something like that. But to just turn around and she's gone and then have no sign of her, it's definitely strange. And this is actually the first case where we have a connection to a previous person we talked about because she had worked with the general too. So that's, that makes it a little bit more interesting too, I think.

• 30:26Speaker 01

  Well, you know, when you think about hiking, there are a lot of accidents that can occur, but you would think that an accidental fall, even a fatal one, would mean that, you know, she would be found not that far away from where they were. So for her not to be found at all, I mean, that, that part is really jumping out at me. And, you know, if she was hurt, she should have been able to scream out. I don't know. There's, there are some definite mysteries to this one. On June 26, 2025, just four days after Monica Reza vanished from a hiking trail,

• 31:07Speaker 01

  53-year-old Melissa Cassius disappeared in Taos County, New Mexico. While she wasn't a scientist, she was an administrative assistant at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, where her husband Mark also worked. Despite not being a scientist, she did hold a security clearance. That morning around 6:15 a.m., Melissa and Mark drove to Los Alamos National Laboratory. Melissa dropped Mark off, apparently telling them that she had to finish up some work in a different building. But instead of going to that building, she went home. Just before 8 a.m., she got back to her house and told her daughter Sierra that she had accidentally left her badge

• 31:52Speaker 01

  at home that morning and couldn't get into work. Sierra later told Taos News, she just kind of laughed, and I didn't question it. She added, I didn't even know that's how they get into work. Melissa's husband Mark explained that you need to show the badge at the gate to get into the parking lot, and that it's the driver's badge they look at. Melissa was driving that morning. When Sierra caught her home at an odd hour, she had to come up with a believable lie. It worked.

• 32:24Speaker 02

  Just before 1:00 PM, Melissa visited Sierra at work and dropped her off some lunch, a sandwich from Subway. Then she left. This wasn't unusual at all. She would often drop by to see Sierra when she was running errands. This is the last time anyone in her family actually saw her. At 1:30 PM, Sierra sent her mom a text and the red receipt indicated that Melissa or someone opened the message. A search revealed that just like with Anthony Chavez and Major General McCaslin, who had once worked at the same laboratory, all of Melissa's personal belongings, including her vehicle, were still at her home. There was still cash inside her wallet, as well as a paycheck her daughter had asked her to deposit for.

• 33:08Speaker 02

  Both of Melissa's phones, one personal phone and one for work, were reportedly factory reset, completely wiped.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Melissa was last seen captured by surveillance cameras around 2:15 PM, walking eastbound on Highway 518 in Taupa, New Mexico. This is about three miles from her home. She was wearing a backpack, but it's unclear what was in it, since her stuff had all been left behind. A friend of the family who saw her walking that day believed that Melissa was being followed by a blue Dodge truck as she walked. According to Melissa's niece Jasmine McMillan, the New Mexico Police Department was able to track down the vehicle and confirm that Melissa didn't get a ride from the driver.

• 33:56Speaker 02

  Some of Melissa's family members suspect foul play, while other loved ones believe she may have been experiencing some personal turmoil. Her daughter and her husband believe that Melissa left on her own. After her disappearance, they discovered things they were previously unaware of. Sierra told Dateline, "Through our own research, she was going through a huge, huge, huge amount of stress." Sierra added, "There's a lot crumbling down on her that we didn't know about." Her husband Mark is devastated that she didn't open up to him about her struggles. He told Dateline, I feel so bad. I didn't recognize this. She hides everything well, and you know, she would smile. I mean, every day she smiles.

• 34:38Speaker 01

  Melissa's husband and daughter are hopeful that she is still out there and that she won't feel too ashamed to return to them. Ciara told Taos News, there's nothing that can't be fixed. We're both waiting here with big, wide, open arms. We promise we'll figure things out, and this too shall pass. Melissa's parents and her sister do not believe that she would have disappeared voluntarily, but hope that she will somehow make it home. Her mother, Joanne Mondragon, has a hard time leaving the house. She said on Dateline, what if she comes and I'm not here? Or she calls on the landline and I'm not here? We can't be gone in case she comes.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  So it's clear that Melissa's family are at least hopeful she will come home, but seem to have mixed feelings on what may have happened to her. And I think, you know, for me more, if this is another, you know, strange one. All of the aspects are the known facts of kind of what happened that morning that Melissa disappeared, they're strange. It seems as though she was caught in at least one lie about needing to go home to get the badge when, according to her husband, she already had it.

• 35:59Speaker 01

  And then this, you know, walking down, you know, kind of a highway with a backpack. It's just all really strange.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. And then in between that, you have her seemingly doing the normal thing of bringing her daughter a sandwich from Subway, something she would do often. So it kind of, a couple of things that seem strange, mixed in with something in between that seems completely normal. And I think that's one of the things that makes this case bizarre. But then you also have the phones being completely wiped. What's she trying to hide? You know, was she trying to get rid of something she didn't want to be found? We just don't know.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  And then you have a split with the family, right? Some folks, her daughter, her husband, talking about how she was under just this mountain of stress that they didn't even realize. I don't think until after the fact that would possibly cause her to up and leave, right? It does happen. People get so stressed out, they can't handle some situation and they just decide to leave. But then you have her mother and sister saying, there's no way that she would have just voluntarily disappeared.

• 37:23Speaker 02

  On August 28th, 2025, just after Melissa Cassius vanished, another person in the New Mexico Science Field would vanish. Steven Garcia disappeared from his home in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Garcia was a government contractor and held a high level of security clearance at the Albuquerque branch of the Kansas City National Security Campus, where he was a property custodian. Surveillance footage captured him walking alone away from his car and holding a gun. There's no further information about Garcia or his disappearance. As of the time of this recording, there's still no new updates on his case.

• 38:00Speaker 01

  And obviously, not a lot of information here, but the fact that, you know, someone vanishes, okay, that's one part of it. But the part that there is surveillance footage of him walking away from his car, holding a gun. Okay, you gotta take that into account as well. You know, the other thing that we haven't talked about more is a lot of these cases that we're talking about are centered around the, the New Mexico area. I mean, there, there are some, some areas to disappear in New Mexico. Or there are areas where if someone had made the decision that they wanted to end their life,

• 38:45Speaker 01

  they could find a place that maybe it would be hard to find them.

• 38:48Speaker 02

  It's one thing if someone goes missing accidentally. Something happens to them, they get hurt, they fall down, they can't move, or they get lost in, in an area. But when someone's trying actively, if they're trying actively, if that's what happened to not be found, then that's going to make it harder for investigators to figure out what happened to them.

• 39:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's something that, you know, people don't like to talk about. It's a tough conversation, but it it happens, right? People make the decision to end their lives. Now, normally, you would think in most scenarios where that does happen, their body is going to be found. But in some areas of the country, and I think New Mexico is one of them, there there are definitely areas where it would be harder to find a person's body if they went out, you know, in a remote place. On December 15, 2025, Nuno Larrero,

• 39:50Speaker 01

  the director of MIT's Plasma Science and Fusion Center, was attacked and shot multiple times in the foyer of his apartment complex in Brookline, Massachusetts. His death was soon linked to a mass shooting at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island, that occurred just two days earlier. It was the second day of finals. As if that wasn't already stressful enough, when a man wearing a mask opened fire inside the Brown University School of Engineering's Barris and Holly Building, at least 40 rounds were fired. 11 students were shot. Two of them did not survive.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  Interestingly, this is one case where Reddit actually seemed to help. Someone posted a potential tip about the shooter, and someone else called it in. It was actually valuable and led them right to the shooter.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  Nuno Larrero died early on December 16, the day after he was shot at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. By the next day, investigators were sure that his killer was also the mass shooter at Brown University. Information led them to a storage unit at an extra space storage facility in Salem, New Hampshire. Inside, 48-year-old Claudio Manuel Neves Valente was dead. According to information from his autopsy, Valente had taken his own life the day after he shot Nuno Larrero. He shot himself one time with the same gun he used in the attack at Brown University. Videotapes found in Valente's storage unit revealed that he had been planning the murders for quite some time, possibly going back three years. But unfortunately,

• 41:32Speaker 02

  the tapes didn't contain an actual motive. We're just led to assume he had some longstanding grudge with Larrero, Brown University, or both. He seemed like an angry and bitter person who just wanted to cause pain in others because he felt it was only fair. But he did have a history with Larrero and the school.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  Manuel Valente and Nuno Larrero had both studied at the Instituto Superior Tecnico in Lisbon at the same time. Valente graduated with better grades. He was actually first in the class. After graduation, he enrolled in Brown University's physics PhD program. Seven months later, he took a leave of absence. Two years after that, he completely withdrew from the program and returned to Portugal while Larrero went on to teach physics at the school. In 2017, Valente returned to the US as part of the diversity immigrant visa

• 42:31Speaker 01

  lottery. He apparently began scoping out the campus to finalize his plans in late November of 2025. At the time of his murder, Nuno Larrero was apparently working on a nuclear fusion project and was said to have been very close to a discovery that would have revolutionized the way energy is used around the world.

• 42:55Speaker 01

  And this is a tragic story. There's no doubt about it, but there seems to be, if not a documented motive, one that I think is very plausible, right? This Valente guy is upset at both Brown University. He's upset with Nuno Larrero. He plotted to take his revenge and he did. And after that, you know, he took his own life. So I don't know that there's really that much of a conspiracy angle here to this one. Now, the fact that Nuno was working on a nuclear fusion project and apparently it was a big deal. I understand that part, but I think that's just a fact, right?

• 43:40Speaker 01

  That's what he was doing and it doesn't really have anything to do with the reason why he was killed. But that's just my thought.

• 43:49Speaker 02

  Yeah, it seems like this guy that he crossed paths with is just on a mission to harm people, including Nuno. And, you know, they documented that he had been working on this for some time. So it seems like it's just a case of, you know, someone that wanted to do, you know, harm and carried it out before taking his own life. So it could just be a random act of violence here that has nothing to do with the fact that Nuno Larrero is one of these 11 scientists that was missing or mysteriously died. So we just went through the cases of 11 scientists where people working in that field who died or went missing over a four-year period.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  To sum up the workplace connections again, Frank Maywald, Monica Reza, and Michael David Hicks all worked at NASA's JPL. Those three and Carl Grillmeyer all lived in Los Angeles County. Anthony Chavez and Melissa Cassius had both worked at Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico. Stephen Garcia and General McCaslin were not working at Los Alamos, but they did live in New Mexico. Carl Grumler worked at the California Institute of Technologies Infrared Processing and Analysis Center, which does work with NASA. Amy Eskridge's father had worked at NASA, and the two co-founded a science institute together.

• 45:15Speaker 02

  Grumler's discovery of water on a planet could have pointed to signs of life, which links back to the extraterrestrial and UFO connection. So there is some crossover between some of the people, places, and fields of work that we have mentioned.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  There's a lot of talk in some places that the cases are all completely unrelated, and that people pushing this discussion are simply conspiracy theorists. But it's not just the case here of people on places like Reddit or web sleuths reaching. The FBI is actually looking into all the cases to see if there's any possible connection between all or some of them. Missouri Representative Eric Burlison told Newsweek, "The disappearance of multiple scientists and military personnel with ties to advanced research is deeply concerning." It's not every day that the FBI legitimately investigates a theory going around social media.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  This may mean that there is some actual way to the speculation that at least some of these cases could be connected. Even if none of these deaths or disappearances are related, it's certainly a lot of people in the same specific field meeting some kind of misfortune in a pretty short amount of time. And whether or not any of the cases are connected, some of them are just flat out weird. Some of the ones we've talked about, you could dismiss as most likely a case of suicide or natural causes, but not all of them can be dismissed that easily.

• 46:52Speaker 02

  If some of these cases are connected, the biggest question would be, why would anyone want these people dead? Who would benefit? What progress or program would be stopped? Could this be a foreign government trying to set the US science field back? Or could a person or group of people be targeting these scientists? At least the government is looking into it and seeing what they can uncover. According to komonews.com, House Oversight Committee Chairman James Comer said, "Once you see the facts, it would suggest that something sinister could be happening, and it would be a national security concern."

• 47:27Speaker 01

  And I think, Morf, this is one of the big reasons why, you know, the conspiracy angle around this has kind of gained some traction. It's not like you just have a bunch of people on Reddit saying this or talking about this. You know, when you have the White House spokesman, you have the President of the United States, you have other people in government and high-ranking offices talking about this. Well, it lends at least some credibility to the fact that there might be something here.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it definitely seems as if this is something that because of the high level of clearance that a lot of these people had being in the public spotlight, it seems that the government at least has to do their due diligence and try and look into these cases just to see if there's anything going on. Because if there is, then that's obviously a big problem. They've got to get to the bottom of it.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Obviously, there could be top-secret or classified programs and technology that the public is not aware of. But as far as anyone knows, these 11 people weren't working on anything at any time altogether, and most of them had not worked on anything together. It's not clear how many of them even knew each other. Some of them were even retired. They weren't doing any work anymore. It's a pretty loose, although highly specialized connection. Then again, if these 11 people were silenced, maybe it's not about what they were working on, and maybe more about what they knew or what they had seen. Unfortunately,

• 49:10Speaker 01

  the nature of this kind of thing, extremely secret government issues or emerging technology, isn't going to be something that the general public would have knowledge of.

• 49:21Speaker 02

  Some people believe that the disappearances of Cassius and Neil, Garcia and McCaslin are actually the result of these people going into hiding. In this theory, they haven't met harm yet, but had to take drastic measures to make sure it didn't, because they were sure it was coming. Think about it. No body, no crime scene, they walked off from everything. They either made sure to factory reset devices, to wipe information, or leave behind wearable devices that could help track them. Some of them were armed when they were last seen. We often talk about the difficulty of disappearing and starting your own life, but we're also dealing with some brilliant minds. With some planning, maybe it's possible that they could have pulled it off.

• 50:03Speaker 01

  Some people have pointed out that if Garcia and McCaslin, who were armed when they disappeared, went somewhere to take their own life, it's odd that their bodies haven't been discovered. They would have had to get into an undiscoverable position before making their final fatal decision. But, you know, on the other hand, the terrain around at least McCaslin's home could help explain why no one could find his body if it's out there. He was also an avid outdoorsman and could probably get a lot farther than you would expect him to.

• 50:41Speaker 02

  Barry Roth, chief archivist at the National UFO Historical Record Center, is skeptical of the connection between these cases. He told kob.com news, "You can take pretty much any subject and create a pattern for it if you look hard enough. There are different, smaller patterns you could look at here, too. Not just the NASA connection, like the two who left home with a gun, apparently, or the four cases in New Mexico, or the Los Angeles cases, or the people who may have taken their own lives." Perhaps the Newsweek editor said it best, "The general erosion of trust in government and its institutions is what makes coordination of these events feel plausible. The anxiety over America's

• 51:23Speaker 02

  ability to defend its safety and status in the world supercharges it."

• 51:28Speaker 01

  If we assume that the people who seemingly walked off on their own did so to take their own lives and that the deaths that have been ruled suicide were not somehow covered up, then, you know, people have asked the question, should NASA or other similar workplaces be looking into this rate of employee suicide? Now, we don't have all the stats, but you have to think that it's got to be decently high. Maybe there's something about the nature of the work that is contributing to this situation and could be changed in the future to help protect the mental health of their employees. There should be news from the

• 52:09Speaker 01

  official investigation into all 11 cases not long after this episode airs. So we'll all have to watch closely to see what developments there are, if any. If you have information about any of these cases we've discussed in this episode, please reach out to the appropriate authorities.

• 52:30Speaker 02

  The possibility of some of these cases being connected is an interesting one. When you consider the specific field that these 11 people all worked in, the science-related field, but perhaps if we dig hard enough, we might find 11 teachers who died or went missing under mysterious circumstances over a four-year period, or 11 attorneys, or 11 podcasters, or 11 whatever, take your pick. And if that's the case, and you could find this pattern across any specific field of employment, then maybe this story isn't quite as strange as it seems.

• 53:03Speaker 01

  And, you know, Morph, as we wrap this one up, I do think that's an interesting angle. And we did kind of talk about it briefly earlier in the episode. But if you looked at any field, could you find 11 people who are either missing or presumably took their own lives, or conclusively took their own lives in the same field? And I would say the answer is probably yes. I think the big difference here is that, you know, like I said just a minute ago, when you have the President of the United States talking about it, you have high-ranking government officials.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  You have the FBI looking into it. Okay, you're going to get a lot of people talking about it. And that is going to cause the conspiracy theories to fly.

• 54:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think what's different about this field versus another field and why this maybe has gotten so much attention is because these people, a lot of them were in the public eye. They had security clearances. So them going missing or dying mysteriously. Maybe that just registers a little bit more as mysterious or suspicious than if it was 11 teachers or 11 attorneys or take your pick, whatever field you you wanted to.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's absolutely right. I mean, you know, when you think of the fact that these people have security clearances, they have knowledge that's okay, maybe potentially would cause a threat to even national security. Well, that's a lot different than a podcaster. You and I don't have any knowledge that in any way would be a threat to national security. But I don't know, man. There definitely is some strange things surrounding some of these cases.

• 55:13Speaker 01

  But at the same time, some of them appear more likely to be cases of suicide. And and I hate to say that, but that's what they appear to be on the surface to me.

• 55:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I definitely agree with you. In my mind, some of them are not as suspicious. A couple of them may be natural deaths, but there are a few of them we discussed in this episode that. Defy a logical explanation and are pretty strange in the circumstances that they present.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  But I do think we're gonna, you know, hear more about this in the weeks to come. It could be that there's a definitive conclusion that there's no connection at all. It could be that some of them are connected, but others are not. That's a real possibility, but we'll have to wait and see. So that's it for our episode on the missing and murdered scientist. As always, if you love the show but haven't done so yet, take a minute, go out, leave us a review, a rating. Also, keep telling your friends. Word of mouth about the podcast really helps us out.

• 56:25Speaker 02

  If you want to find us on social media, we're on every major platform. Just search for Criminology Podcast on your favorites. And for news, old episodes and more, head over to our website, criminologypodcast.com. And if you want to join the discussion group for the podcast and the cases we discuss, head over to Facebook and search for the group Criminology Podcast Discussion and Fans.

• 56:47Speaker 01

  So that's it for another episode of Criminology, but Morph and I will be back with all of you next Saturday night with a brand new episode. So until then, for Mike.

• 56:56Speaker 02

  And Morph.

• 56:56Speaker 01

  We'll talk to you next week.

• 56:58Speaker 02

  Take care, everyone.