Please Continue (Criminal+)

Today, an unlocked episode of Criminal Plus that's full of exciting updates, public service announcements, and Tom Cruise's teeth. If you enjoyed listening to today's Criminal Plus episode and you'd like to hear more - ⁠⁠join us on Patreon⁠⁠. It's the very best way to support our work here at Criminal. You'll have access to these special episodes with Phoebe and Lauren, plus ad-free listening, behind-the-scenes videos with Phoebe and Criminal producers, chat rooms, live events, and more. Thank you very much. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Phoebe Judge?

  Hi, it's Phoebe. Today, we're sharing the latest episode of Criminal Plus with all of you. This is the show I make along with Criminal co-creator Lauren Spoor, and it's pretty different from Criminal, as you'll hear when you listen. We talk about everything from our favorite items at Costco to short stories to moisturizer. Lauren hates when I say that, but it's true. There's some exciting announcements in this episode, so we decided that we wanted to share it with all of you. And if you want to keep listening to more of these types of episodes, you can get them by becoming a Criminal Plus member. Sign up at patreon.com/criminal. We're trying to get 1,000 new members by the end of September. Thanks for helping us get there. Now, here's the show.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Welcome.

• 0:47Phoebe Judge?

  Welcome to Criminal Plus. I'm Phoebe Chode.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor. Live.

• 0:54Phoebe Judge?

  I'm not going to talk about that story, though, that you have going on over there. Welcome to Criminal Plus. Here we are. Lauren and I are sitting next to each other in my studio. It's pouring rain outside. It has been for two days. But we've pulled in a dining room chair, and we've got you all set up, Lauren. How does it feel?

• 1:13Speaker 01

  It's really great. What a great space you have.

• 1:15Phoebe Judge?

  You've been here once before, but...

• 1:16Speaker 01

  I remember we recorded an episode in here, and I quoted from a Frank O'Hara poem. And then I was embarrassed. And then it worked out because the file was unusable in some other technical way. So I was saved.

• 1:28Phoebe Judge?

  But now you're here.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  I'm here.

• 1:30Phoebe Judge?

  You're looking exactly... This is what I look at all the time.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Great.

• 1:33Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren has been here visiting me for the past week. We've had some peaks and valleys. We've had some good weather, and we've had some bad weather. But Lauren, overall, how's... What do you think?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Great. I mean, early this morning, we were in a pond. It was freezing, raining. We did it.

• 1:51Phoebe Judge?

  We went to a hidden pond this morning at 7:45. We had to move a fallen-down tree that it was blocking the dirt road path. We pushed it out of the way and had a great swim this morning. We've been trying to swim every day. And, you know, Lauren, overall...

• 2:10Speaker 01

  Great. A great trip.

• 2:12Phoebe Judge?

  You drove here.

• 2:13Speaker 01

  Well, I drove. It's... I'm on an east... My partner and I are on an East Coast road trip.

• 2:18Phoebe Judge?

  Stopping in Washington, DC?

• 2:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:22Phoebe Judge?

  New York City?

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:24Phoebe Judge?

  And now, you're here visiting me in Massachusetts.

• 2:26Speaker 01

  Well, I just really want to talk about what I want to talk about.

• 2:29Phoebe Judge?

  I didn't want to talk about this on Saturday when you got here?

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Well, I...

• 2:34Phoebe Judge?

  And now it's Thursday.

• 2:35Speaker 01

  I... One time recently, Phoebe said to me, "Can you imagine sitting down on a public restroom toilet seat?" And I thought to myself, "Yes." And then, because I've been at so many rest stops during this driving trip, I did the research. And I just thought, "Phoebe, you should know, and the listeners should know, that it is perfectly fine to sit down. Use your eyes and make sure it's clean. But it's perfectly fine to sit down." And here's this: lining the toilet seat with toilet paper does nothing. The toilet paper is porous. It does not help you. Hovering is not good for your body. Don't hover. If you'd like to wipe the seat, do it with something that you bring, like a sanitizing wipe.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  But the quote from the expert in the BBC is that "the risk of contracting any kind of disease from sitting down is, quote, 'vanishingly low.'" Okay, we can get that part over with. But there are risks to be had in a public restroom. Number one: don't touch the flush handle with your hand.

• 3:35Phoebe Judge?

  I never do. I use my foot.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Don't touch the door handle. Don't touch... Like, the risk is everything your hand touches, which I thought was pretty interesting. And that hand sanitizer isn't good enough in a lot of cases. So using toilet paper to open and close a door handle, or turn on or off a faucet, might be worth it. And when you're home, or at a guest's house, or in a place that has a lid, it's imperative that you close the lid before you flush. And don't bring your phone into the bathroom, under any circumstances. Your phone is disgusting.

• 4:09Phoebe Judge?

  All right. Are we done with that topic?

• 4:11Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, I think that that would be surprising to a lot of people, and I think it was surprising to you.

• 4:16Phoebe Judge?

  Ah, yeah.

• 4:17Speaker 01

  What you see as embarrassing, I think, could be public service.

• 4:19Phoebe Judge?

  We're a little delayed in taping today because I was having an interview earlier today with a man for... This is for an episode of Love, and I was having a wonderful conversation with him. And I got a text message about 45 minutes into the interview. The phone... And I don't usually have my phone. I mean, I'm not on my phone, but my phone was kind of by... Right here.

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 4:41Phoebe Judge?

  Right here, by the desk. And it kept going off from Sarah inside, multiple. And I said, "Well, I have to just look and see what's going on." And it was all capitals: "Basement is flooding." Not "is flooded." "Is flooding." Active. And I thought, first off, you know, well, there's so many things plugged in. You were just down there. Electronics, all different sorts.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:08Phoebe Judge?

  Pelotons. You can't get down there. What about electricity? You know, electrocution? And so I said, "What do we do in the middle of the interview?" I didn't know what to do. And then, all of a sudden, middle of the interview, internet out. Completely out. Gone. Done. Lena Silasen. Couldn't even tell Lena Silasen, because of Wi-Fi, that, you know, I was gone. So I go downstairs. There is water up to my knee. And we don't know what to do. And I'm thinking about electric... This just happened two hours ago. Two hours. We were supposed to have lunch together, but I was in the basement. And there is something that we have, that I did not know we have. Do you know what this word is when I say it to you?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Shop vac.

• 5:47Phoebe Judge?

  No.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  What?

• 5:49Phoebe Judge?

  Sump pump.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  Yes. I have one, too.

• 5:52Phoebe Judge?

  We had a sump pump. God knows how. We had a sump pump, and we got that thing rigged up. And what happened is our water tank exploded, just rushing water completely out. It's fixed now. You know, nice to have very good neighbors to help. But I've been with a broom for the past two hours, just pushing disgusting, dirty water from the basement towards the sump pump, and the basement is now drying.

• 6:15Speaker 01

  And it's freezing cold.

• 6:17Phoebe Judge?

  And my toe is broken.

• 6:19Speaker 01

  And you have another injury.

• 6:20Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, yes. Well, here's the thing. You know, for me... Lauren feels differently. For me, in the summer, I don't wear shoes often. And I had a problem 10 days ago. I was running through the sand with no shoes on, and I was going very quickly. 42-year-old woman sprinting through the sand. And I hit with my toe a root, a stump, underneath the sand. And I immediately knew something very bad had happened. Confirmed. Very broken. And for someone like me, it's hard to have that going on, because I don't know what to do. I don't know how, you know... It's hard to not be active. And it's hard to wear shoes, you know, because in the summer. But in the summer, that's what happens. You have scratches. You have broken toes. Things just happen.

• 7:04Phoebe Judge?

  You're outside a lot. You are now kind of experiencing... You've been here for a week, and you've gotten yourself a little beat up in just a week's time.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  I have a lot of bug bites. A lot.

• 7:15Phoebe Judge?

  She has massive welts on her legs from bugs. But you know what? It's summer.

• 7:20Speaker 01

  I will say that it's been a week with no air conditioning for me now, and I think my skin looks better.

• 7:25Phoebe Judge?

  And isn't it nice to have the wind come in?

• 7:28Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. It's great. The blowing rain was something different, but...

• 7:33Phoebe Judge?

  You've also eaten some pretty interesting food, and I've been introducing you to new things here.

• 7:40Speaker 01

  Like what?

• 7:41Phoebe Judge?

  You're having one right now.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yes. Orange Dry.

• 7:44Phoebe Judge?

  This is a wonderful drink. It's Polar. They make seltzer. And they also make a drink that you can get here in Massachusetts called Polar Dry. This is the diet. Your review?

• 7:54Speaker 01

  It tastes great. Tastes like orange soda, completely. It says on the can that prohibition made polar beverages dry, but it was Boss Crowley who made it sparkle. Over 100 years later, you can still enjoy the same great taste. So did Polar used to not be...

• 8:11Phoebe Judge?

  I think Polar... I think a lot of companies that maybe made beer or other things became, you know, dry. Just like they had to now... They couldn't make beer, so what were they going to make? They had to make soda pops.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  Someone just told me that it's the rates of alcohol consumption are the lowest they've been since prohibition.

• 8:29Phoebe Judge?

  I think drinking's out. My niece went to a bonfire the other night, and in the old days, I think you would be concerned about a teenager. You might say, "Don't drink anything." You know, you might say, "If anyone's drinking anything, make sure you don't have anything to drink." But it's like, no, no... Kids don't really... Smoking is back. Drinking is out.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. I did hear about someone, though, who is addicted to kratom.

• 8:56Phoebe Judge?

  What's that?

• 8:57Speaker 01

  Kratom? I'm not sure, but it's legal.

• 8:59Phoebe Judge?

  Is it like a synthetic marijuana?

• 9:02Speaker 01

  It's a plant. Yeah. I don't think it's synthetic. I don't actually know. But there's other things out there.

• 9:08Phoebe Judge?

  I'm looking to my left, and all I see is a list that Lauren has that I have... I have no idea what all of these words mean, but would you like to tell me what you've got going on over there?

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Well, I want... I thought we should talk about the eBay stalking story. Have you read it?

• 9:22Phoebe Judge?

  No.

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Big news in the eBay stalking story.

• 9:25Phoebe Judge?

  I don't even... But what is the eBay stalking story?

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Well, I'd love to tell you. And I think we should also think about it as a TV show and cast it. But basically, two e-commerce bloggers, Ina and David Steiner, in the state of Massachusetts. They have a long-running blog, and they started off just sort of doing general e-commerce news. And then, over time, their blog became more focused to help people who are selling things on eBay specifically. And so, they would blog about changes to eBay's policies, and then often, they would critique changes to eBay's policies. And eBay, including, I think, at one point, publishing that, like, the CEO of eBay earned more than 150 times that of the average employee, or something.

• 10:12Speaker 01

  They managed to get under the skin of the CEO of eBay. And he texted another executive about Ina Steiner, "Take her down." And so, then, the executive who received this text message that said, "Take her down," went to the head of security at eBay. And me, reading this story, I'm like, "Oh, and they're gonna, you know, bust the CEO for being inappropriate." No, the head of security, then, is like being the muscle, like, being the bad guy. And they start this harassment campaign against the Steiners. And being eBay, a lot of the harassment comes in the form of mailing packages to them. So, they mail them live cockroaches, live spiders.

• 10:51Phoebe Judge?

  Wait, the higher-ups at eBay are...

• 10:53Speaker 01

  Yes. Are harassing these e-commerce bloggers. And so, they mail her, they mail them a bloody pig mask, a funeral wreath, huge amounts of pizza. They send porn with the man's name on it to neighbors' houses. And then, they also start harassing them in person. eBay employees flew from California to Boston so that they could physically vandalize the couple's house and stalk their car. And there were documented plans to break into their garage and put a GPS tracker on their car. And then, there's all these text messages, like, saying that the Steiner, that Ina Steiner, the woman is a biased troll who needs to be burned down, and that they wanted to, quote,

• 11:38Speaker 01

  "to see ashes," and that they should do whatever it takes. And then, this is my favorite part. It culminated in what they called a "white knight strategy," which would mean another eBay employee comes forward and goes to the Steiners and says, "Let me help you figure out who's doing this to you." And so, they could be the, so eBay could, in the end, be the good guy and win their goodwill and, like, quote-unquote, "unmask" the person who was harassing them. Can you just see it as a movie? Anyway, there were a number of arrests. People did go to prison.

• 12:13Phoebe Judge?

  When was this?

• 12:15Speaker 01

  I think it started in 2019, but then, the Steiners filed a civil lawsuit against eBay. And the outcome, that was finally, it finally reached a settlement last week. And in the end, the Steiners got $56 million.

• 12:28Phoebe Judge?

  That's not bad.

• 12:28Speaker 01

  Isn't that just the craziest story?

• 12:31Phoebe Judge?

  I just can't believe that... Who was the hot, who was the big wig who was directing the employees to do this?

• 12:38Speaker 01

  You want me to tell you his name?

• 12:39Phoebe Judge?

  No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying...

• 12:41Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, yeah. And just to, like...

• 12:43Phoebe Judge?

  To care enough.

• 12:44Speaker 01

  To become so petty.

• 12:48Phoebe Judge?

  You and I have also been talking about this story here, about the man who built, bought the house on the cliff. A man bought a house on a cliff, very close to the ocean, to the bay, that is eroding, the, you know, the sand, it's, there's a lot of erosion going on. And so, he bought this house that was very close to the water, to the cliff. And people said, "It's really close, you know, he had a good deal on it, but it's really close and it's gonna keep eroding." And so, you know, last year or something, the town came and said, "We have to demolish your house. It's no, it's no longer safe. The foundation is now so close to the edge, we've gotta demolish your house." House gets demolished.

• 13:31Phoebe Judge?

  He still has a mortgage on his house. He is now refusing to pay the mortgage, saying he does not have to pay the mortgage because he was in a manic state. Clearly, he was in a manic state, suffering, to purchase a house that was so obviously unsafe and close to a cliff. Do you think that that's an argument?

• 13:55Speaker 01

  Did it work?

• 13:56Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know, I didn't get that. Didn't, aren't you the one who sent me the article?

• 13:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 14:00Phoebe Judge?

  You didn't?

• 14:01Speaker 01

  I don't remember. I'm doing a lot of hitting send. I think, well, the question is not, was it, is it real? It's, did it work?

• 14:09Phoebe Judge?

  That's right, did it work? I, I don't know, we could Google it.

• 14:13Speaker 01

  I think Tom Cruise should play the CEO with the delicate, the eBay CEO with delicate ego.

• 14:21Phoebe Judge?

  Did you see Tom Cruise at the World Cup halftime show? Or intro to the World Cup, the final?

• 14:27Speaker 01

  No, I, I only saw a few celebrity photos from the World Cup.

• 14:31Phoebe Judge?

  He was in this outfit, this kind of black pants, clearly with custom black t-shirt. It was very, very interesting choice.

• 14:42Speaker 01

  Two things about Tom Cruise really stand out for me. One, this is not fact-checked. Before he was famous and got his teeth fixed, he had one middle tooth. Like, one of his two front teeth was perfectly in the center. Do you know what I mean? Have you ever seen a picture of it? Just look at a picture of it right now. And then, the other thing is, I just saw that his daughter just changed her name, took the, dropped the cruise. All these celebrity kids are dropping, like Brad Pitt's kids dropped Tom Cruise's teeth.

• 15:12Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, is it this? No, that's when he had braces.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Uh...

• 15:16Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, this, this.

• 15:16Speaker 01

  Yes. Oh, no, that's not even it either.

• 15:19Phoebe Judge?

  That's gotta be it, Lauren. What could, what else could it be?

• 15:24Speaker 01

  Uh, that's like an advertising photo for a dental clinic in Turkey. Tom Cruise's middle front tooth, that's what I'm searching for. Yeah, see, look. Dead center.

• 15:37Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, I see. Don't look at my teeth, then.

• 15:40Speaker 01

  If you were a celebrity, would you get your teeth redone? I think I wouldn't.

• 15:43Phoebe Judge?

  Do you think I need to?

• 15:45Speaker 01

  Well, I think they all, they all do.

• 15:46Phoebe Judge?

  Venieres. They look at veneers. Uh, well, someone who tries to stay away from the dentist as much as possible, I don't think I would choose to go in if I didn't need to.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  I was thinking about that the other day when you were making fun of me for my neuroses. And then, I was thinking that it was kind of elegant of me to not bring up the dentist in that moment.

• 16:02Phoebe Judge?

  What was, what was the neuroses about the other day?

• 16:05Speaker 01

  Private.

• 16:06Phoebe Judge?

  What was that, actually?

• 16:07Speaker 01

  It was about your, the boundaries with your gigantic dog.

• 16:11Phoebe Judge?

  So, Lauren and I, we've been here all week. We've been swimming, we've had ice cream, we've, uh, what else have we done? Swimming, ice cream, a little bit of shopping, um, cooking. But when we haven't been doing that, we've been working together, mostly on the, the screen and porch, um, on a new project. Well, what would you say about it, Lauren? I don't, we're, we're, I'm working...

• 16:42Speaker 01

  It's an experiment. It feels really good to be experimenting. It is a sort of live event where it would just be Phoebe. And instead of telling crime stories, like, we normally do, like, if you've never been to a live show, it's usually, like, six or seven visual-heavy stories that have not been on the podcast before. And we try to make it move really fast, and we're conscious of what it means to sort of be at a podcast-listening event. But, um, over the years, we've experimented more and more with putting more personal stuff from Phoebe in there. And so, we're thinking, like, what if it was just Phoebe telling some stories from her life that we have definitely never shared before?

• 17:24Speaker 01

  But not only that, but sort of talking about how those experiences from her life have influenced her as the host of a crime show. Does that do it? Yeah. So, that's like a really weird new thing for us. And I feel like I have had unfavorable opinions in the past about podcast hosts who make things about themselves and their reflections. And so, we're trying to think, how can we do this very well? So that it feels really worth someone's time and attention.

• 17:53Phoebe Judge?

  And it's not easy.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  And we, and then, you need to feel comfortable, you know? How are you feeling? Do you, are you thinking about it in the middle of the night?

• 17:59Phoebe Judge?

  I am thinking about it in the middle of the night and wondering. But what's never stopped us before doing something new, and, um, so, we're trying something new. But it is, it is very different for us. It's very different for us because the whole point of the, remember when we started Criminal? The whole idea was, let's have a show where the host gets out of the way, you know? Doesn't have to comment, doesn't have to, "Oh, that reminds me of the time. Let me tell you what I think." And this is very different, you know? It's personal, so, but...

• 18:33Speaker 01

  But funny.

• 18:33Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren keeps saying we need friendly audiences.

• 18:36Speaker 01

  A warm, well, because I, I don't want you to be nervous. So, I think if the audience is really, like, when, even with regular live shows, if the audience is stiff, you're stiff. And if the audience is drunk, you're happy. So, that's what we need.

• 18:49Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, I mean, I think that they, you know, people have nightmares about this. People have nightmares about standing on the stage and telling a joke and no one laughs. And you're in the past in live shows, you've been up there, you know? And so...

• 19:03Speaker 01

  And I always laugh.

• 19:04Phoebe Judge?

  You're always smiling. But we, but, you know, we were able to, you know, be able to look, you know, yes, it's just me talking, but I'm able to look at you and I'm, we're telling other people's stories. So, the idea of being up there all alone and telling my own stories is, is, yeah, I, I mean, it's pretty...

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Well, we can, we'll, we'll come up with some parachutes so that if the audience hates it, you can just, like, pull the, and then, you can just start telling fully canned Rodney Dangerfield jokes. We'll put them up on a teleprompter. Or we can just, like, cut out and put something on the screen behind you, like America's Funniest Home Videos, and you can just run away.

• 19:39Phoebe Judge?

  Do you remember we did the live show and we had the very long video of, um, Mark Rogers, the streaker in the Super Bowl? And it was just, like, so, so long. People had to wait so long to see what was gonna happen. Uh, yeah. We will let you know, we are finalizing it all right now. And we'll let you know, uh, when the tickets are on sale and where. We're gonna go all around the country.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  I've been asking Phoebe to watch different stand-up specials that I love, to sort of, like, observe the genre of one person talking, or one person telling one big story, but then lots of little side stories spun in.

• 20:22Phoebe Judge?

  Well, I'm just gonna remember, um, what you've, what you've always said, the greatest compliment you've ever given me.

• 20:28Speaker 01

  Mistakes are charming.

• 20:29Phoebe Judge?

  No. Uh, two greatest...

• 20:31Speaker 01

  You're good at diving.

• 20:32Phoebe Judge?

  I'm a very good diver and...

• 20:34Speaker 01

  Good at animal photography.

• 20:35Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, the three best compliments you've ever given me. Diving, animal photography, and, um, your favorite. I'm your favorite.

• 20:44Speaker 01

  And toil as I've ever had.

• 20:46Phoebe Judge?

  Are you doing it to be funny?

• 20:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, it's not necessarily a compliment when I say you're my favorite storyteller. You are my favorite storyteller of all time, and I think these stories are going to be surprising.

• 20:59Phoebe Judge?

  Anyway, so that's what we've been working on. We've been here bumming around, doing all the work for Criminal and all the other shows, but also in our free time, we've been trying to write this show.

• 21:10Speaker 01

  Do you think it's harder to record this sitting together than it is normally?

• 21:15Phoebe Judge?

  I think it's actually fine. What do you think?

• 21:17Speaker 01

  I feel like it's more

• 21:18Phoebe Judge?

  stiff?

• 21:18Speaker 01

  Well, I'm very uncomfortable.

• 21:20Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, that chair is a nightmare.

• 21:22Speaker 01

  And also, I don't, I'm looking at you on a screen, even though you're right next to me.

• 21:27Phoebe Judge?

  Would you like to switch chairs?

• 21:28Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:29Phoebe Judge?

  You've got shorter legs than me, so I can't help too much. I also have a broken toe.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  We got a very nice voicemail from someone named Gary. Can I play it for you?

• 21:38Speaker 02

  Hi, Phoebe and Lauren. This is Gary. I'm a longtime listener. Love your show. I'm going back and listening to the old ones and working my way back to current again. And I'm on bonus number three, the other Phoebe judge. And I'm from New England, and I was shocked by Phoebe's dislike of the fall. I think every New Englander loves it, knowing she's from Western Mass, even more so. So there was just a comment that took me, just like it took Lauren aback, when she mentioned the autumnal time of year. I really got a chuckle out of that when Phoebe

• 22:22Speaker 02

  was asking her not to call it that. But just a comment, no reply needed. But I love your show, both of them. Thanks so much. Bye.

• 22:35Speaker 01

  No, I just like the sound of his voice.

• 22:37Phoebe Judge?

  That's a real New England accent. That's a real Massachusetts accent.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  I like the way he pronounced my name, too.

• 22:41Phoebe Judge?

  That's a real Massachusetts accent.

• 22:42Speaker 01

  And I was thinking about that because it is freezing cold here today.

• 22:46Phoebe Judge?

  Well, we are

• 22:46Speaker 01

  You would think it was late October.

• 22:48Phoebe Judge?

  Well, we are, we are now, we are firmly in the middle of, middle of summer. And, but I kept telling you that, you know, when you, when you were, I've been up here and I was saying, it's cold, you don't need air conditioning. And you've been here before. So this wasn't, you know,

• 23:00Speaker 01

  I was freaking out about not having air conditioning. And it's been very cold.

• 23:05Phoebe Judge?

  You're perfectly fine.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 23:06Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, should we need to talk about George Saunders?

• 23:10Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 23:11Phoebe Judge?

  Okay.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  Time for the latest installment of Reading Club. We read a very short story, very, very short story by George Saunders.

• 23:19Phoebe Judge?

  Called Sticks.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Called Sticks. And we put the link in the Patreon, but if you Google it, you'll find it. It's extremely short. I thought, I really enjoyed it. Did you read it?

• 23:27Phoebe Judge?

  Yes, yes, of course I read it.

• 23:29Speaker 01

  And?

• 23:30Phoebe Judge?

  Well, it's a real Phoebe judge type of story.

• 23:32Speaker 01

  Why?

• 23:33Phoebe Judge?

  I loved it. I loved it. And I, and I, as someone who, as you know, Lauren was here yesterday, as I unveiled my newest flag, came yesterday, I got a new custom flag for my sister Chloe, for CHJ, for, to fly on the pole. I loved, I loved hearing about the different, the different outfits for the different types of occasions. I loved the different stick families, you know, around the crosses and the, I loved it.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  On the Patreon, Criminal Plus Reading Club channel, Catherine shared with everyone that if you like that story, George Saunders has a reading, his own reading club on Substack, if anyone's interested. So that's, that's the type of community that we're building there. Chris said, amazing how such a gifted writer can paint such a vivid story with so few words. I totally agree. Helen says, I drive by a farm every weekend where the road curves sharply, and the farmer has a mannequin out that he dresses up right on the curve to keep people from speeding. That's a really good idea. She's very seasonal, witch's outfit for Halloween, Yankees jersey for opening day, red and white and blue stars and stripes for Independence Day. This weekend, she was back in her Santa suit for Christmas in July,

• 24:53Speaker 01

  makes me smile every time and slow down. Catherine said it was so evocative. Another Catherine said, I love the author's explanation of how the story came to be. As someone with a frankly unhinged Christmas display each year, I wonder what folks imagine about me when they drive by. Did you read the description at the bottom of how?

• 25:10Phoebe Judge?

  Oh, I was just gonna read it.

• 25:11Speaker 01

  Oh, great.

• 25:12Phoebe Judge?

  So basically, the, if you haven't read the story, which you really should, it's two paragraphs long, it's a story of a man, a kind of a gruff man who dresses up these sticks in his front yard, depending on the holidays, depending on how he's feeling. And it kind of gets more deranged and odder as years go by. And when George Saunders published a piece in the contributors' notes in Story Magazine where it first came out, he said, "For two years, I'd been driving past a house like the one in the story, imagining the owner as a man more joyful and self-possessed and less self-conscious than myself. Then one day, I got sick of him and invented his opposite." And there was the story.

• 25:53Speaker 01

  So good.

• 25:54Phoebe Judge?

  So if you haven't read it yet, please go and read Sticks by George Saunders. It will take you two and a half minutes, and you will be very, very happy you did. And you'll be thinking about it all day. I was.

• 26:07Speaker 01

  We've been trying to get him to come on This is Love for years and talk about his, how he met his wife.

• 26:12Phoebe Judge?

  I loved that, the swim in the pond.

• 26:17Speaker 01

  In the rain.

• 26:18Phoebe Judge?

  But the Russian in the rain, yeah. That's fantastic.

• 26:20Speaker 01

  I thought, I thought about that book this morning as we drove to swim in a pond in the rain.

• 26:24Phoebe Judge?

  There's nothing better than swimming in a pond in the rain.

• 26:27Speaker 01

  I, I'm not gonna lie. I was really having an internal tantrum on the way there.

• 26:32Phoebe Judge?

  It wasn't internal, it was external, too.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  It was really cold, and I just was like, I, it was like 8:00 AM, it was freezing cold. And I just was like, it's nothing, there's nothing cowardly about wanting to be warm. That's what I was thinking to myself. And then when we got in the pond, I was like, oh, right. Thank God I didn't miss out.

• 26:49Phoebe Judge?

  You never regret a swim or a run.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  Who told you this?

• 26:54Phoebe Judge?

  Who told you this? My mantra for life?

• 26:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but where'd it come from?

• 26:58Phoebe Judge?

  From my head, Lauren. It's Phoebe Judge original. My whole life, I've, I've stayed true to that. Never regret a swim or a run. So Lauren, we are here together, in person. So we're announcing big news. We're announcing that we're working on this new live show. That's pretty big news. The other pretty big news is that finally, we have decided to change the name of this show. When we started Criminal Plus, it was Criminal Plus, and you got, you know, you got lots of things. You get ad-free listening, you get the live

• 27:39Phoebe Judge?

  events, you get the chat rooms on Patreon, and you got this other show, which we just called Criminal Plus, because it was the chat show in Criminal Plus. But it doesn't really make that much sense. I mean, so we internally have said, oh, we've got to record Plus. But it's a little confusing, because there's this thing called Criminal Plus, but then there's this Lauren and Phoebe show, which is also called Criminal Plus. And

• 28:04Speaker 01

  They know, because we've asked for their

• 28:06Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah.

• 28:07Speaker 01

  input. And sometimes when people say, see, sometimes people refer to the C-plus episodes, which I always think is very funny.

• 28:15Phoebe Judge?

  That's good, C-plus.

• 28:16Speaker 01

  Isn't it?

• 28:16Phoebe Judge?

  Well, for a while, we thought about asides, you know, because this, this really isn't, any of you listen to the show knows that it's pretty much just a bunch of asides. But that didn't really seem exactly right either. And then listeners, you know, write in to us often, thank you for doing it. Please keep writing in with all of your compliments, comments, complaints, and said, I think it's very funny when Lauren interrupts Phoebe or says something after Phoebe has said something, and Phoebe doesn't respond. Am I saying this correctly?

• 28:55Speaker 01

  I think it's like, if I'm laughing, and then you'll say, why are you laughing? Or you get annoyed, or something similar. And then I say, please continue.

• 29:05Phoebe Judge?

  So we've decided to call Criminal Plus, same show, here we are. But we're gonna start calling this show, Please Continue. That's it. We're gonna have a new tile for it. It's gonna be, well, it's a picture of us.

• 29:19Speaker 01

  A tile. That's not like a term everyone uses.

• 29:21Phoebe Judge?

  What do you call it? A logo.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  Logo? A little, little, this is, this is the words that came into my head, iPod art.

• 29:29Phoebe Judge?

  And we're gonna just start calling this, well, so what would you say? I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 29:35Speaker 01

  Oh, no, we have to redo the beginning?

• 29:38Phoebe Judge?

  Not for all, but just try it out. Just, I'm just, just try.

• 29:40Speaker 01

  Oh, I'm so nervous.

• 29:42Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 29:44Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor.

• 29:46Phoebe Judge?

  Please continue.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  It's not how it's gotta be.

• 29:49Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor.

• 29:52Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren?

• 29:52Speaker 01

  Yes?

• 29:53Phoebe Judge?

  Please continue.

• 29:55Speaker 01

  You're trying to make it into like a thing.

• 29:58Phoebe Judge?

  Not a thing. It's just like, I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge,

• 30:06Speaker 01

  She does this all day.

• 30:06Phoebe Judge?

  and this is Love. I'm Phoebe Judge, this is

• 30:10Speaker 01

  Just watering her plants, practicing.

• 30:12Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge, this is Criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge,

• 30:16Speaker 01

  It's making me feel sick.

• 30:18Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Please continue.

• 30:22Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 30:24Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor.

• 30:25Phoebe Judge?

  Please continue. Doesn't work.

• 30:27Speaker 01

  I think you need to say like, welcome to Please Continue.

• 30:30Phoebe Judge?

  Okay.

• 30:30Speaker 01

  Or this is Please Continue. You're listening to Please Continue. We're the hosts of, or we could make a little, like, we could make a little intro.

• 30:39Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spoor.

• 30:41Phoebe Judge?

  And this is Please Continue.

• 30:43Speaker 01

  That works.

• 30:44Phoebe Judge?

  Okay. First time, we just tried it out. First time ever.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  It is a little bit of the like SNL.

• 30:50Phoebe Judge?

  Like when they make fun of public radio?

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, it has a little bit of that.

• 30:53Phoebe Judge?

  Well, this could be a Saturday Night Live skit. Do you think, I think this could be a Saturday Night Live skit about those two?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  What if we just have like a, like a, we get like a, someone to make one that's like, p-p-p-p, please continue. You know, that's like a digital, like the way the cartoon has an intro, and then we don't have to say it.

• 31:09Phoebe Judge?

  What? Like beatboxing?

• 31:11Speaker 01

  Well, you know, just like a, like a produced, a little produced intro.

• 31:16Phoebe Judge?

  Let us know what you think about the name. It's gonna be, well, it's pretty much set. So let us know your compliments about the new name. It's, please continue.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  What does Frasier say? I'm listening. I'm Dr. Frasier Crane. No, I'm listening is like his tagline. I don't know what the name of his show is.

• 31:33Phoebe Judge?

  I'm Phoebe Judge.

• 31:34Speaker 01

  I'm Lauren Spore.

• 31:35Phoebe Judge?

  This is Please Continue.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Do you like that? And then do you want to say like, a podcast about?

• 31:42Phoebe Judge?

  What is it about?

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Another idea we had was to make it sort of about an apocalypse. Make the title about the word involving the word apocalypse, referring not only to a real apocalypse, but to a private, personal apocalypse.

• 31:54Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, it's, it's how to prepare for a real apocalypse, personal apocalypse.

• 31:59Speaker 01

  Just the apocalypse of everyday life.

• 32:01Phoebe Judge?

  Mental apocalypse, just your one stop shop for advice on how to flee from the tsunami, how to flee from cancer thoughts at 4:00 AM.

• 32:12Speaker 01

  How to break up with your therapist.

• 32:14Phoebe Judge?

  How to break up with your therapist. Protect yourself from aging, the apocalypse of aging. You know? You'll get your recommendations right here about what moisturizers we're using.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  And the theme song could be Apocalypto.

• 32:27Phoebe Judge?

  Apocalypse Now. What about that, you know, the Apocalypse Now, that, that famous?

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:33Phoebe Judge?

  And then you just come flying at you like, uh, first aid kits, moisturizers, vitamins, lasers, airplanes.

• 32:42Speaker 01

  Speaking of laser, Phoebe.

• 32:43Phoebe Judge?

  Pills.

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Your laser journey is working.

• 32:48Speaker 01

  I'm proud of you.

• 32:50Phoebe Judge?

  Why?

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Because you didn't want to talk about it for a long time. And now you're having, you've had some laser treatments and it's like, made a huge difference in your redness.

• 32:59Phoebe Judge?

  The way that you are concerned about my redness and have been.

• 33:02Speaker 01

  The first time I tried to talk to you about your red face was when we were in Iceland, interviewing the prime minister. How long ago was that?

• 33:08Phoebe Judge?

  No, well, it was when, it was when we were in the.

• 33:10Speaker 01

  Phoebe, we actually, I really actually want to talk to you as your friend about your face. It's very, very red and you were offended. And it, so it just took a really long time for you to be open to taking action.

• 33:22Phoebe Judge?

  Well, I am going back in two weeks to have, to have another round.

• 33:27Speaker 01

  Oh, I thought you meant you were going to Iceland and I was like, say more.

• 33:29Phoebe Judge?

  Lauren, should we do some things we've been enjoying lately in person?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 33:36Phoebe Judge?

  Anything you've been enjoying this week with me that you've been introduced to?

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Orange Dry.

• 33:43Phoebe Judge?

  Yeah, but you're, you can use that one if you want.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Something about being here, maybe because we've been outside so much, I've been so thirsty that getting little drinks and teas has felt like an extra special treat to me. You know that sort of desperate feeling you can get sometimes when you're away from home for a long time, where you're just like, I'm so thirsty.

• 34:01Phoebe Judge?

  I mean, do so many bottles of water constantly around me.

• 34:04Speaker 01

  Something I've really been enjoying lately is soft serve. And I had already read that soft serve was taking over New York City. I had already heard that the hot trend is frozen Greek yogurt. Have you ever had that?

• 34:18Phoebe Judge?

  No.

• 34:19Speaker 01

  But I didn't have any of that, but I did see a lot of it in New York. Um, and so, and I also heard that soft serve is the new meetup for a drink after work. And so I went, I had soft serve on the Upper East Side at Butterfield Market. I waited in a super long line to get it. It was very expensive. I got coffee soft serve with no toppings. Thought I'd be proud of that.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Actually, that's not true. It had Oreo cookies, I forgot. But the way they do it is they do some soft serve toppings and then more soft serve on top. So you don't see the toppings. So you look like you kept it together, even though you do have hidden toppings. It was great. And then I had more coffee soft serve today and it's wonderful.

• 35:04Phoebe Judge?

  The first thing that I've been enjoying lately, which is a really odd thing for me to say, but, uh, this came into my house last week and it's a Trader Joe's product that I had not heard about. And when I saw it in the refrigerator, my niece requested this, I thought, Alex, what is going on here? Have you heard about this trend? They make something called protein pancakes.

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:27Phoebe Judge?

  It's 22.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  They're pre-made from Trader Joe's? Yes, I've already been down this road.

• 35:31Phoebe Judge?

  In this little stack.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:32Phoebe Judge?

  It's more like a crepe than a pancake. And I thought, oh, that this, but I, we didn't have anything here. I heated, we don't have a microwave here, so everything is going, that goes in the oven. I heated it up and I wasn't expecting to like them at all. Fantastic.

• 35:48Speaker 01

  Uh.

• 35:48Phoebe Judge?

  Fantastic. Protein, they come in like five, so you eat the whole pack. You heat them up, you could have it with Greek yogurt and berries, which I've been doing. And it's, it's just a wonderful treat. Frozen sec, no, not refrigerated section in Trader Joe's, protein pancakes. And apparently they're, they're, they're sell out a lot. So if you find them, buy yourself a few packs. I think they're probably about $3 a pack.

• 36:12Speaker 01

  I'm ready to do the Trader Joe's episode because I've actually been going.

• 36:16Phoebe Judge?

  I know, when are we gonna, let's do it.

• 36:17Speaker 01

  And some of the things I've been getting have not been very good. And the disappointment is noticeable. Like my expectations for Trader Joe's apparently are very high because when something's just fine, I feel pretty disappointed. So we should go. I, I thought about your niece's interest in protein, so I almost bought her a protein drink.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  Proteins, it's basically protein seltzer. Have you seen this?

• 36:42Phoebe Judge?

  I have, yeah.

• 36:42Speaker 01

  And it had 200 milligrams of caffeine.

• 36:45Phoebe Judge?

  That's the problem.

• 36:46Speaker 01

  And I was like, well, I'm not going to buy this for adolescent, but like, uh, yeah, just that's, so not only are we putting protein in the seltzer, but we're putting 200 milligrams of caffeine.

• 36:59Phoebe Judge?

  What's something else you've been enjoying?

• 37:01Speaker 01

  Um, I think that's as far as I got.

• 37:04Phoebe Judge?

  Good. This is, this is on the fly.

• 37:07Speaker 01

  Uh, how about fresh picked blueberries?

• 37:11Phoebe Judge?

  That's pretty good. It's blueberry season here and, uh, wild blueberries. And if you're lucky, you have a neighbor or someone who has blueberry bushes and lots of them, and they invite you to come and pick blueberries, which we are lucky enough to have. So, uh, we have been picking a lot of blueberries. And you, you came to the house the other day and there was gigantic jug of wild blueberries that had just been picked. And they, and they are very different.

• 37:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're very, they're very small.

• 37:44Phoebe Judge?

  But they're wonderful. And you have been rather cautious lately about eating berries and such because.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  I ate a salad today. That's the first salad I've eaten since.

• 37:53Phoebe Judge?

  No, no, no, no, I remember I made you, I remember the first night you were here, I made the, all out of my garden, the tomatoes and the cucumbers and the beans. It was all from my garden.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was beautiful.

• 38:02Phoebe Judge?

  And you didn't have to worry.

• 38:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I haven't had a normal salad in weeks.

• 38:07Phoebe Judge?

  So wild blueberries, your number two.

• 38:08Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:09Phoebe Judge?

  Or fresh picked blueberries.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  What's yours?

• 38:12Phoebe Judge?

  The second thing I've been enjoying lately is the thing that I wanted to say last time, but I forgot. Walkie talkies.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Have you done this before?

• 38:20Phoebe Judge?

  Have I done walkie talkies?

• 38:20Speaker 01

  I can't remember. It's fine, go on.

• 38:22Phoebe Judge?

  So this was for children who have walkie talkies and I wear one and, um, you know, I wear it on my shirt. And so then at any moment, they can talk and, you know, give updates or things like that. But I would like to just make an argument for walkie talkies for adults. There's something so great about one, the lingo, ten, four, over and out.

• 38:47Speaker 01

  Copy.

• 38:47Phoebe Judge?

  Copy. Knowing the right lingo, but also just, you have to, you know, you have to be smart about it. You can't just drone on. You know, even in text messages, text messages, you just have to type. And so it was, it felt like it was a short message, right? Be home in five. Now, text messages, you, you can talk, your voice text. And so you can just drone on about nonsense. Do you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you'll send me a, a text message as a voice recording and it's just long.

• 39:21Speaker 01

  Just droning on.

• 39:23Phoebe Judge?

  No, no, but you know what I'm saying? There was a, there was a, there was an inherent kind of, um, directness about a text message I think now has been lost. With a walkie talkie, you need to be, you need to be very to the point. And I have just, I think they're fantastic.

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Do you need to be to the point or it's just like part of the genre?

• 39:42Phoebe Judge?

  Well, because the other person, you know, it could be good for couples therapy because the other person can't talk or interrupt until the one person's finished.

• 39:50Speaker 01

  Oh, it's so good. I heard that Orna from Couples Therapy charges $700.

• 39:56Phoebe Judge?

  From what?

• 39:56Speaker 01

  Orna, the woman on Couples Therapy.

• 39:58Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know what that is.

• 39:59Speaker 01

  The show.

• 40:00Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know what that is.

• 40:01Speaker 01

  What?

• 40:02Phoebe Judge?

  I don't, I've never seen it. I don't know.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  Okay, well, never mind. Withdrawn.

• 40:07Phoebe Judge?

  Uh, so yeah, my, walkie talkies. And for any of you shrinks out there, couples therapists, please give me credit when you try out walkie talkies for couples having trouble with communication.

• 40:19Speaker 01

  I, this is embarrassing. I've done this one before, but I'm going to say my number three is New York City. I hadn't been in a minute and I had so much fun.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  I went to the Guggenheim and walked around and I ate an incredible piece of pizza and it just, it's, I, I don't know why I find it so relaxing, even in the middle of the summer. And after living in the suburbs for quite a while now, when I go back, I just feel impressed. It just like works. Like people just know how to walk in a small space together. People just like know how to, there can be like a line in a bagel place with 70 people in it and it moves very quickly and everyone shares the space. Like it's, there's something symphonic about it for me and I had a great time. Can't wait to go back.

• 41:10Phoebe Judge?

  The third thing I've been enjoying lately is watching people set up tents and house, little living, you know, set up their tents in the forest with their little blow up beds and blow up couches and their little wood stove.

• 41:31Speaker 01

  Where are you seeing this?

• 41:32Phoebe Judge?

  Instagram reels. I've been, I've been loving, when I was a little girl, I always used to like set up this little playhouse and then I would take it right back down, but I would set it up in the middle of the living room and I make my own little space in there and I love to be in there. And I just, I don't know how they found me, these videos, but I watch them and I love, you know, they unload the tent and then they set the tent up and the little things and little rug and the little wood stove and they're nice and warm and it's horrible outside. That's something I've been enjoying lately.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  If you were going to become a type of Instagram influencer, what would you pick?

• 42:04Phoebe Judge?

  What do you think I could be?

• 42:05Speaker 01

  I just read an article that said that the bar, the bar is being raised, that it used to be you could become an influencer just by posting like you in your attractive yoga outfit, drinking a matcha, but now people want more. So I think you have to have a skill or a point of view of some kind that people need.

• 42:20Phoebe Judge?

  I don't know if anything about me is made out to be an influencer in any way. You know, like what, what would I, what would I, I could show you pawns?

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm, that would work. I, I got really deep on someone's channel the other day where the question was, is this rock thirsty? And then they put a wet sponge on a rock and watched to see how fast the water soaked it up. And you might think like, that's idiotic, but being here, I pick up a beautiful shiny black rock out of the water and I carry it in my pocket and I take it out of my pocket and it's just a regular ass rock. It was only because it was wet, but it looked so, so special.

• 42:55Phoebe Judge?

  Do you know that there are rock tumblers?

• 42:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I'm just saying like, you could build a whole influence thing just by, off something so niche.

• 43:04Phoebe Judge?

  I know, I should find something.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  People like that. I think you need to give eight a voice. Practice, give, practice different funny voices you could do for eight and then you do videos from eight's point of view. Put a GoPro on eight's head, give eight a voice. Just, I think there's, this has legs. I'm not sure what the voice is.

• 43:21Phoebe Judge?

  Can it be my voice?

• 43:22Speaker 01

  No, Phoebe, God, like give it a funny voice. Don't make eight have Phoebe voice. What do you think eight's voice really sounds like? Tony Soprano, that's what her voice sounds like.

• 43:36Phoebe Judge?

  I think it sounds kind of like Chloe's voice.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Ooh, like a raspy smoker. Well, something I could get into from the influencer standpoint would be tidying and there is a big market for watching people tidy up a space. And when I think about the emotional labor of setting up a camera and then editing a video, there's almost nothing that would make it worth it to me. And that's all I think when I watch influencers. Whenever I watch a video of anyone on Instagram doing anything, all I think about them is setting up the camera and editing the video. And I just think like, this is a, what are you doing?

• 44:13Phoebe Judge?

  I'm showing you something that I think could be the next thing that I could do.

• 44:18Speaker 01

  I think this seems, oh, scrimshaw kit.

• 44:22Phoebe Judge?

  This is my scrimshaw kit. Remember I tell you I'm doing scrimshaw? And this is my kit, this is my pocket knife. And then I will, I'm scrimshawing a hair. Do you see this hair? I'm making this hair and I'm doing a scrimshaw on my pocket knife.

• 44:38Speaker 01

  How long do you think that will take you?

• 44:40Phoebe Judge?

  Well, I'm chipping away at it every once in a while, but it's right here.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  Well, you could do a different old fashioned craft every few months.

• 44:49Phoebe Judge?

  Do you want to see a magic trick since you're here?

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 44:51Phoebe Judge?

  Probably have a couple of tricks in one of these pockets. I always have a deck of cards around.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  Is that a card from my mom?

• 45:00Phoebe Judge?

  This is a card from your mother.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  I was like, I know that handwriting anywhere.

• 45:04Phoebe Judge?

  This is a card from your mother writing to me, thanking me for the donation I made to, when your grandmother died, to the hospice.

• 45:13Speaker 01

  Speaking of hospice.

• 45:15Phoebe Judge?

  This is too, this is, this is, are you actually going to tell this wild coincidence while I find a deck of cards?

• 45:20Speaker 01

  The, in the last, second to last episode of Criminal, the comfort kit, the memory care facility is, was my grandmother's memory care facility and my grandmother was there at the same time and so was my aunt and my uncle in Evans, Georgia.

• 45:36Phoebe Judge?

  We did not know that. This is my Santa.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  I can't stop thinking about all the times I visited my grandmother and wondering if Rachel was also there and thinking, I think I would have noticed because I almost never saw younger people there. And when I did, sometimes I would try to be like, hey, I found a deck of cards.

• 45:54Phoebe Judge?

  Well, I guess I'll have to be for next time. Okay. Well, thank you very much for listening.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  I have a couple of requests. Number one, next reading club, we are taking suggestions. Number two, if there is a one person performance that you have seen that you find interesting and provocative, send it to us so we can include it in our studies.

• 46:14Phoebe Judge?

  Please, please, please. Thank you all very much for listening and for watching. We will be back to you soon. If you have any thoughts for us, we're [email protected], 833-822-7850. Lauren Spores on Instagram and I'm Phoebe.Judge. We love to hear from you. So thank you again for listening and we'll talk to you soon. Bye-bye.

• 46:37Speaker 01

  Bye. And then you say, please continue.